Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson - Mandy Moore

Episode Date: February 6, 2024

“Dr. Death” star and singer-songwriter Mandy Moore joins the show. Over some tie-dyed trout and mouthwatering potatoes, Mandy tells me how she looks back at “A Walk to Remember,” what it’s like to have Julie Andrews as a costar, and how she emerged stronger than ever after a difficult marriage. This episode was recorded at Bar Chelou in Pasadena, CA. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show, you might know her from This Is Us, Dr. Death, or I don't know, maybe her 1999 hit single candy, it's Mandy Moore. Being on tour with NSYNC or the Backstreet Boys and playing these gigantic arenas of 20,000 people and glow sticks and girls screaming and I think I'd be so much more nervous now.

This is Dinners on Me and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Mandy Moore is one of those multi-hyphenate unicorns, not in the fact that she's able to do so many things, but that she does them all seemingly so well. I mean, she has this incredible singing career, and if you ask me an even more impressive acting resume, she's truly one of those crossover sensations that has continued to just surprise our fans. Now, something I knew I wouldn't be surprised by was how down to earth she was.

I mean, this is just a reputation that has always preceded her. We have many mutual friends and colleagues in common, but I don't think we've actually ever met in person before, so I was so happy to finally rectify that. And I had so many questions I was dying to ask her. I heard Mandy is a bit of a foodie so I thought that I would bring her some place that I've been dying to try myself. Bar chelou in Pasadena. It's such a beautiful space. Green tiled walls,

romantic drapery, quirky stunning flower arrangements. It's giving Paris, it's giving Barcelona, but tucked next to the Pasadena Playhouse. Now if you don't know Chef Doug Rankin by name, you've surely tried some of his delicious food. Before Bar Chaloux, he ran Bar Restaurant in Silver Lake, which sadly closed in 2022. And before that, he worked alongside Chef Ludo at Tua Meck. Chef Doug prepared an amazing meal for us, and I cannot wait for us to dig in. So I have to be honest, I had never seen a wok tour member

and so Justin was like, wait, you've never seen this. I was like, no, I just never had watched it. So we watched it together two nights ago. Oh gosh. And Jesse. I know, but it's sort of me what I feel like. It's sort of like I was given an old photo album of you and I just like had free range of it

because you were so young. I was so young, yeah. You were so young. I turned 17 at the beginning of that movie, yeah. That's so crazy. Pretty wild. Have you revisited it? I haven't watched it beginning of that movie. Yeah. That's so crazy. Pretty wild. Have you revisited it? I haven't watched it in years and years.

It just had its 20th anniversary a few years ago. So that brought it back in the zeitgeist again. But it's a strange thing to be a part of, I mean, you're well aware, to be a part of something that people connect to so fervently and still it's like I feel like each generation of a certain age like discovers that movie and like calls with their own and feels really attached to it. Well Justin was like I mean he

hadn't seen it in a while and he was just like we brought him back to exactly at that age when he's your age and it just really meant a lot to him. That's so kind. That's so sweet. I love that. Oh my gosh, I'm mortified, but thank you. But I told people I was sitting down with you. That's a thing that you are very known for.

I mean, obviously many things now. Like I think with your work on This Is Us, but that is such an iconic moment in your career. Thank you, I appreciate that. I'm so worn-ified, hi. This is Clementine. Yes, be there. Here, I'm gonna move this just so you,

whatever you're saying is being captured somewhat. Joanne, help me, oh! Oh no, down goes the cream. Yeah, there goes the cream, I know I needed a free to be coffee. Oh, I get it. It's okay, it's just spilled milk. Don't cry over spilled half and half.

Thank you, I appreciate it. This is so cool, guys. We feel very special. Yeah, I know. Like getting to have the whole restaurant to ourselves. Okay. I'm gonna get you some water. Oh, that'd be great.

Do you want a bottle of sparkling or filtered tap? Filtered tap's fine. That's fine with me, too. Thank you. Do you have lemonade by chance? We do. I'll take a you some water. Oh, that'd be great. So you want bottle sparkling or filter tap? Filter tap's fine. That's fine with me too. Thank you. Do you have lemonade by chance? We do. I'll take a lemonade too. Oh, sure.

Two lemonade? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. So yeah, we both have something in common that we have both part of these very sort of, I feel iconic family television shows. Yes.

I know how I felt when modern family ended. How did you feel? I mean, it did feel like I was ending a very important chapter of my life. Sure. And we also finished right before the pandemic, but then the whole world shut down. So I didn't have a lot of closure with my cast.

Like, we didn't see each other. And we were these big interviews with Jimmy Kim know, like, Jimmy Kimmel and, you know, like, all remotely. And that was, that was really hard. I've since actually had a few of my cast members on this podcast, and like one of the one things I ask all of them is like, we haven't really ever talked about like what it was like to come to an end. Yeah, like processing it by yourselves. Yeah, which is really a bummer, you know? It is. What was it like for you to end your show? I wonder if you feel similarly, like it was bittersweet.

I felt like it was the perfect time to sort of tie things up and our creator and show runner had always sort of envisioned the show lasting this amount of seasons. How many seasons did it run? Six. Yeah. And so we, the way that they wrote the show

and it all sort of had to culminate a certain way and it had to like, cause our show jumps around in time. So there was no way to sort of really extend it. So I love that it didn't feel like it, it like stayed past its welcome in that sense. Right, right, right, yeah. But so I felt bittersweet, like it was a job I loved so much,

I felt like I could have continued it for, you know, infinitely, but I'm glad that it ended, how it ended and when it ended. And it also was just strange in the sense that, you know, when things are coming to an end, everyone's already starting to disperse and go on to their other things. So it, I thought it was going to feel as sort of like celebratory that we would do it together. And like by the end it was like, nope, everyone's kind of just like

petered off and gone their own ways. And you're left kind of like, oh, okay, this is it. All right. Bye. Yeah. I mean, it's heartbreaking. And you know, that role was such a departure from things that you had been given the opportunity to do. I mean, to play someone through so many stages of their life. Sure. And you're a young person still. Just a young lady.

You are. But like, you know, then I have to like sort of embody an age that you don't really have any familiarity with. Like, what was that like? Really daunting at first. Yeah, I mean, I guess it was just the opportunity of a lifetime in every sense, like just someone seeing that in you,

seeing something in you that you probably didn't even see in yourself. But yeah, I remember doing the pilot for the show and the pilot, like in the middle of shooting it, the creator Dan Fogelman coming to set and trying to tell Milo and I, this is sort of what I see, the plans for the show, and it's gonna jump around in time.

I'm like, but, but, but, I don't wanna hear anything because I've been a part of like four failed pilot seasons where like things didn't move forward and I just can't like be crushed again. So I'm just, I'm treating this as a job like one time only and then, you know, we'll figure out moving forward. Like if it does move forward, great. Then I wanna hear all the details,

but otherwise like let's just. When did you sort of relax into it and feel like, okay, this is, I mean, it was a kind of an overnight hit? Well it got picked up and when we got that second script and I realized that it jumped in time like forward eight years or something and that I would also be playing the same character like in her mid-60s. Yeah. I was like what? They're like yeah we're gonna go through all these hair and makeup tests. All these like prosthetic tests and if one person doesn't buy it,

you know, from the executive producers and the studio and all of that, then we're gonna cast someone, an older actress to play the character and I was like, great. So I'm sitting there going like secretly feeling like maybe just, maybe Sally Field is like the better, you know what I mean? like in my mind I'm thinking someone has got to probably step up to the plate but we went through like four different rounds of hair and makeup and eventually they were like we nailed it and no it's great and I was like I remember my first scene on camera was with the great Ron Seifers Jones that we love

and miss so much but um and I was, who is not as old as the character he was playing, but is at least 20 years older than me? And I was like, Jesus, what? Like, I have to, obviously, I have to be on screen with this legend, but also playing his equal. It was terrifying, but 108 episodes later. Did you audition for it, or was it so close? Oh, yeah. Oh, but 108 episodes later. Did you audition for it or was it something else? Oh, yeah.

Oh, no, no. I auditioned and I remember I auditioned very early on in the process, and I didn't hear anything for like six weeks. And you know, as an actor, you're sort of like, all right, I'm gonna brush that off and forget about it and move on to the next thing. And you were saying you had come off

of some failed projects. So many failed projects. I was in the middle of a divorce. It was like life was just not firing on all cylinders. And I was like, well, maybe this will work out. Maybe it won't. And six weeks later, they came back and said, okay, we have like a handful of women

that we want to screen test with like a handful of guys. And it just makes me so nervous to be put on the spot. Like I hate auditioning in general but then you're going and sitting in a room with like a couple of other women that you're up against and then some other guys and I just remember going into it hearing that they loved Milo and Milo was the guy that they were really gunning for so I went in and I who played my husband sorry and I went in and just read with him and they were like thanks that's that and I was like oh they're not gonna make me read with

anyone else I don't know if that's a good sign or bad sign and then it all ended up working out but whoa those things just yeah like it's like taking a standardized test or something it just gives me the heebie-jeebies. Well, it's so funny because I think people don't fully understand what a network test is. And it's the most, it's so archaic. It's totally archaic. Yeah, it feels like you're entering a ring

and they're just like. Dance for us. Yeah. Yeah, put on a show for us. Or they're going to open the gate and the tiger's going to come out and like maul you. It's just like, it's really terrifying.

It's so terrifying. They also, but I've, people are always interested to hear this, but like they make you sign your contract before you go in. So like all the, the, the business stuff is handled. Business stuff is handled. So like they know that if they're going to move forward with you, that's all done. Like they don't have to then start negotiating a contract and that has all fall through. So they do all that stuff beforehand. You see the amount of money

you might be making, you see the amount of episodes, you like you look at the like the time commitment which is usually up to seven years and it's like you sign this thing and then after you sign this document someone from you know human resources takes it away and then you have to switch gears and be like, okay, now I'm in my acting mode. Yeah, now I'm back in creative mode. Creative mode. And like you go in and like maybe you read

with another actor who's up for the part, maybe you don't, but like then you're sitting in a dark room with these suits and these people who are in charge of these networks, and they're all judging this thing. It's the most bizarre afternoon I have ever experienced was testing for a TV show. Same, it's awful. I'm like, ugh, I would give anything else to do that. I'm not right. bizarre afternoon I have ever experienced was testing for a TV show. Same.

It's awful. I'm like, ugh, I would give anything else to do that. I'm not gonna write. Hi. Hi. I'm Doug. This is Doug. Hi Doug.

I'm the chef. I wanna go to this place. Welcome. Thanks for having us. Absolutely. We put together a menu that's just like some of our greatest hits and we're just gonna run through all of it kind of with you like course by course. we just plenty of food coming out and if you got there's too much just tell me what's going on.

No please never too much. Alright cool. Thank you. Okay so for friends of mine who are people I know who have had great success at an early age I always think back to like what I was doing at the age of 15 or 16. And I can't fathom how you navigated childhood under such a spotlight and a microscope, especially starting off as a pop star. Sure.

I find it fascinating. I need a little bit more clarity because I read that a demo was maybe slipped to someone from a FedEx guy, explain that to me. I know, it's so weird. So I grew up in Orlando. I grew up doing theater. I also grew up singing the national anthem a lot, which is now sounds like truly the most bizarre concept, but I remember I

was at an Orlando Magic game. You were like an old review at this point. I was, I think, 12, 13. And for the ice hockey game, I remember I was like walking off the ice over to like the penalty box where my dad was like sitting waiting for me. And these two gentlemen like beckoned me over, which hindsight feels really creepy but I was there with my dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're like that was fantastic.

Have you ever thought about like singing professionally like being a recording artist, recording a demo and this was like pre-Britney Spears. So it wasn't like that was a thing happening in like pop culture anyway. And these guys were like well we work at a studio we're like a writing producing team and if you want to like pay for studio time we have some original songs that we've written and we'd love to like work with you partner up with you and my parents we like went home and discussed it and I had done some like local commercials they're like if you want to spend some of this money and do it over your summer vacation, like going into freshman year of high school,

by all means, you can do it. So I did. So I'm in the studio recording these demos. I'd never been in a studio before. So it was a very jarring experience. Like hearing yourself and headphones, like all of it was very intimidating. But I was in the midst of recording this demo

probably for like four or five days when a guy who was delivering boxes to the studio heard me sing and had like a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend that worked at Epic Records in New York and he somehow like without my consultation but talking to my parents and these two producer guys like sent this unfinished demo to this guy at Epic Records, who somehow heard something he liked. I mean, the FedEx guy, since the, the, became a quasi talent scout.

That's so crazy. And sent this like, and I guess like fancied himself a talent scout and like sent this demo off. And it. Unfinished. Yeah, unfinished. To this guy who had signed the Backstreet Boys

at Jive Records and then had moved over to Epic Records, he heard something he liked enough to fly down to Orlando and like take a meeting with me. Wow. And I sang a, I sang happily ever after from once upon a mattress. That was my audition song. Oh my God.

Like nothing remotely resembling like anything that would be radio friendly or pop friendly. That is fantastic. Oh my god, I was such a dork and this guy heard something he liked and signed me and that was it. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, we'll dig into the princess diaries, pre-show panic attacks, and so much more.

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And we're back with more dinners on me Okay, what are we looking at? This is our clam toast so it has a ton of ponda cristal Which is bread that we get flown in from Spain Super light and crispy and then on the top is some melted leeks And then on top of that is clam escoveche, which is basically like pickled clams. And then this is our crispy potatoes.

It's probably the most popular thing on the menu. Aole and Aonori is seasoned on there. And there's a little bit of spicy shishimi takarashi on there too. Check it out. Thank you. Check it out. Eek.

Sorry. Looks so good. It looks so good. I look so good. I'm not doing a great job of dividing it. I just want a bite. Oh my God, this is so good. I mean, guys. Oh wow.

That was amazing. Oh my God. I could eat that every... What do you say, Swiss potatoes? Yeah. Oh wow, they're so soft. Wow, this is... It's like, melt in your mouth. Oh my god. So you did the demo on your summer before your freshman year. And the half of your freshman year you were signing. And I left like around the holiday break and started immediately

making a record in Orlando because they had like remember that whole Lou Perlman the crazy like yeah Ponzi scheme boy band he had this incredible like recording complex in Orlando so I got to make most of my record like in in town which was great. I would say by May of that year of 1999 I came out here to make my music video for my first single which was called candy and then I flew immediately Back to the East Coast to open up for in sync and start like there they were doing like a summer They were in saying that there was huge huge huge. Yeah, then I was opening up for them. And I assume you were a fan.

Well, you were a musical theater. No, no, but, but then. I mean, that was unavoidable. Yes, I remember like getting. Oh my God, getting ready to like go to school in the morning and like getting dressed and having MTV on and watching them and then six months later I was. It was like once bottom actress then in sync.

Yeah, totally in that order. Yeah, insane. Yeah, totally, in that order. Uh-huh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's gotta be wild. It was wild, yeah. Shortly after that is when, you know, you did another big thing, which is, well, I know you did the Princess Diaries as well. Oh yeah.

Which would... How do you know all of this off the top of your head? I'm just, I'm interested in you. I was like, you are very studied in all of your subjects. Well, I do want to take a little sidebar and just talk about Julie Andrews for a moment. So, okay, you are 16, 15 at the time of your business? Yeah, 16, yeah, yeah.

Having a big moment just as a singer. Ish, big-ish, big-ish, big-ish, big-ish, yeah. Candy was pretty good. Yes, but I mean, like, I would say comparatively to like, you know, other people that are out there in the world doing that. Sure, you had Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Jessica Simpson,

but you were part of that conversation. Sure, sure. I think so. Sure. How I remember it. I was like the little annoying baby sister or something, you know? Just baby sister.

I don't know about it, but like, okay, okay, okay. But so then you have this other opportunity, it's a major acting job. And one of your co-stars is going to be Mary Poppins herself, Julie Andrews. Yeah. It was- Break that down for me. I mean, honestly, I was probably just as excited

about working with Gary Marshall because I am a gigantic Bette Midler fan in Beaches. Yes. Was my Bible. You were a fan of Beaches at that time. I loved, yes. Yes, oh my God, you were such a mature kid. I'm like, I just want to put it on and cry.

Yeah. It's a great movie. So yes, I was very excited about like getting to be in both of their orbits, but she was... She is everything. I couldn't believe the good fortune of being around her, spending time with her. I didn't have really many opportunities to work with her per se, but yes. I mean, I've gotten to work with a few different people that I've just idolized. Yeah, I

Try to I try to breathe through the situation and that's normal But at the same time I want to connect with them I was like when am I ever gonna get this opportunity again totally Did you have the foresight at that age to be like, okay, this is Julie Andrews. This is a really big deal I'm going to try and Were you just like I'm just gonna sit here and speak when spoken to? Yes, I'm so shy and such a like introvert that I was definitely not asserting myself to like get in there and like trade stories or,

but I will- This was your first film. Totally, in hindsight, yes, I wish I had like really recognized how precious that moment was and that whole experience was. I just, I think like everything happened so quickly at that age and it was all so new that it was enough just to kind of keep my head above water

and not feel so overwhelmed by everything and I look back going, well, good job, little Mandy. You managed to make it through because now if I were put in that position, I think I'd be way more nervous. Do you think? Oh yeah, I'd be way more freaked out. I could probably hide it a little better,

but yeah, I think back to being on tour with NSYNC or the Backstreet Boys and playing these gigantic arenas of 20,000 people and glow sticks and girls screaming and I think I'd be so much more nervous now that I was so calm and collected and not like, not like laissez-faire about it, but I was just sort of like, yeah, I know what I'm doing and I'm just going to get out there with my microphone and like sing and do my thing and now I would be like, I need 50 beta blockers and like I'm going my thing, and now I would be like, I need 50 beta blockers and like I'm gonna poop my pants.

Right, well can we've learned that that's a situation to be scared of? The stakes, exactly. The stakes are high. We're all brave for his children. I know I was. Yeah, totally. The amount of stage fright I have now

is way more intense than stuff, something I felt when I was a kid. How do you overcome that, like I know you just won a Tony. How do you overcome that like being on stage and doing eight shows a week? I'm just curious, because that's a dream of mine one day. Well, I mean, I feel most at home on stage,

but there is that moment between the wings and stepping onto stage where I have a little tiny itty bitty panic attack every night. Every night. Every night, and it goes away the minute I start talking. But it is that there is a moment of fear, but I also feel that that tiny little itty bitty panic attack is why I do it.

Because it's like that adrenaline rush of doing something that feels so impossible and getting through it and coming out on the other side of it. And it doesn't go away. You feel that everything. It kinda doesn't go away. Even with all the years that I've been working and then even after winning,

what is considered to be the highest award in that field, I still felt sometimes even more so because I had won that thing and like, okay, now I have to prove to people why, which is an interesting thing that I didn't realize would happen. Sure, wait, I'm gonna try this clam toast. Was it so good?

Do it. The pastry's so airy and delicious. These potatoes are incredible, truly. Oh my gosh. Well first of all, this is what I'm fascinated with of your early part of your career. First of all, the fact that you have a career in ninth grade.

That's crazy. Like that's just not something most ninth graders have. It's something that they call a career. But then to have not only one thing that you're doing, but this other thing that you are being given great opportunity to gain. And there's these two simultaneously, these trains are running at the same time,

this music career and this film career. And a walk to remember, I know I started off this conversation talking about it, but that was a huge responsibility that you were handed. It was. Huge. Adam Schenckman is a friend of mine who directed it. So I did.

I was like, are there any anecdotes from that time with Mandy? He just said, you know, like he just finds it fascinating that you and Shane are so known for these two roles and he will always be known for these roles. And I did do a little dive and I was like, I wonder if she still sprints with Shane and I saw some recent photos of the two of you together. What does that relationship mean to you? I mean, I honestly, we haven't seen each other in a bit.

We saw each other like right, I was right before the pandemic, it's been a minute. And he lives in, I think in Nashville now. So I, he was gonna, I was on tour like a year and change ago and he was gonna come on and see me and then he ended up being out of town. But we still reach out to each other every now and then it's like, I know that he'll always be there

for me, I'll be there for him. Yeah, he's a sweetheart. Did you feel when you were doing, kind of juggling these two careers at such a young age, did you ever feel like a pressure to like stay in a lane or focus on one or the other or because you were doing something that was not a lot of people were doing. I mean, like think about the other pop shows we talked about.

They weren't doing films as well. Yeah. And a lot of people that were contemporaries of yours who were doing films weren't doing a pop career. Want making records, yeah. Yeah. contemporaries of yours who were doing films weren't doing a pop-rear. We're making records, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think I felt really lucky that, and I've said this at Nauseam, but like, because I didn't have an incredible amount of success with music like Brittany or Christina, I think they both had a

harder time breaking into doing like film stuff because it was so hard for people to see them as anybody other than themselves. And I think because I didn't have that same amount of success, I was allowed to slip into a character like Jamie from A Walk to a Member and people would believably go, oh yeah, who was that again? And I feel like because of that and because A Walk to a Member found some bit of success but it kind of got the ball rolling on the acting side,

that that became like more of my career, the thing that I concentrated on, whereas like music sort of took a bit more of a backseat after that. Like I still made records, but I never really toured. I never, like music will always be a priority, but it wasn't number one for me. It sort of really just focused more on the acting side of things after that.

It was also a time in the entertainment industry, specifically in music, and maybe you evaded a little bit of this just because you weren't under the spotlight like Christina or Brittany was. But it was a very hard time for women. I mean, you look at what Brittany's been through and you go back and look at some of those interviews that she had to endure. The industry was very harsh on women specifically and young girls.

Did you feel any of that or feel any of that pressure? I didn't. I think I managed to escape it because I was younger and but I never had anyone pushing me in any direction. I was like a you know dorky 16 year old who was like awkward and still growing into my body. I didn't know how to be like sexual you know what I mean or present myself like that to the world so they let me dress the way I wanted to and answer questions the way I wanted to and so I think in that sense I the way I wanted to and answer questions the way I wanted to.

And so I think in that sense, I really did evade a lot of that the same kind of scrutiny and behavior from the press and stuff that those girls had to endure. That was just, I look back at that stuff now and it would not fly for a single second now. It's really upsetting. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it's intense. Are you close with people that you knew at that time of your life? Not too many people. No, no. It's hard. You know, it was like, I think I left school at an age where you are sort of forming those forever bonds with people. And I remember I went back to like a high school homecoming dance one year.

How you did? And it was not well received. People were pretty icy to me. Not my friends, but other people that were sort of gave me the cold shoulder. Like, you think you belong here, you think you can just waltz back in. And this was a year after I left. Interesting. So it kind of sent the signal to me like,

okay, I think I have to like table trying to be a part of this like high school experience in Orlando and just go live my life and make new friends. Yeah. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Mandy tells me how her parents' divorce led to her first marriage and how Instagram played a vital role in her love story with Taylor Goldsmith.

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some restrictions may apply. And we're back with more dinners on me. What do we have? Okay, yeah, come in. Come in, come in. Wow. What are we looking at? Oh my.

That looks. Okay. I know that's trout, right? God, that looks good. So this is a carrot salad. It's a plain like a carrot rippet, which looks super French dish, but we made it like Thai.

So it's got some like kind of surprises in there. And this is brand new. We just went on the menu this week. It's a confit duck leg with a U-choy couscous. And then there's a yogurt sauce on the bottom of that. And then the black stuff that's on there is a macadamia nut duke. Black stuff.

Egyptian spice, yeah. Yes. I'm letting these two side. I always like to add in some Middle Eastern to the vibe here. And then this is the trowel. This is definitely the number one thing on the menu right now. So it's a butterfly pizza trowel. The tie-dye sauce, I'm like super into tie-dye.

People make fun of you but I don't care. Wow. And then on the bottom is a corn rice that we cook in corn juice. So when we cook it, it gets all caramelized and crispy. Then the sauces are pill pill and we split it with the green sauces called, we call it an Europe puree,

which is like a garlic, chive puree. Wow. Thank you. Thank you. So excited. Oh yeah. You dig in. Okay.

Oh wow. Oh. Mm. That carrot salad is special. That's not too great. Wow. This is the perfect way to do this too. Just like a little bite of everything.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, I gotta come back with my husband. He's gonna be. Come back with us, we'll do a double date. Oh, oh my God. I would truly love that. Please. I'm also fascinated with,

just point in your career where, and also first I wanna say, I don't wanna talk about your ex-husband, but I do wanna talk about that period of time when you weren't creating, because you were in a relationship that was not supportive of that. And for someone who had been so creative,

would you explain to me kind of what that time felt like for you when you didn't feel like you were in a place to? I think, I found myself in a relationship and getting married at a time when my parents. You got married at 23, right? 24. 24, yeah, yeah. Almost 25, very young. But I think it was like a direct response

to my own parents splitting up. And they had been together, you know, obviously since they were like 16 or something. And I was so heartbroken. And I believe that I found myself in a relationship with somebody that I was like, oh, I can make a family with this person, for this person, and it just was obviously not the right situation by any means.

But I also think it happened at a time where I was like, I am ready to power everything down. I've been doing this since I was a kid, and this seems like a perfectly appropriate time to get married and focus on like this very personal, quiet chapter in my life. And ultimately like it just left me in a really hollow, empty, isolated place.

Well I think, you know, switching gears and like focusing on yourself or a family and kind of taking a step back is a beautiful thing. If that place that you're stepping into is a warm, comfortable place. If it's not, it's gonna feel weird. Like what am I doing here? Why am I stepping away from light

to be in this kind of place that doesn't feel right? Totally. And I think for a while I worked really hard to like make it feel comfortable, make it feel like it was the right fit. And ultimately it just wasn't, you know? For a million different reasons, but it's so weird because I think back to that chapter

and it almost feels like it was someone else entirely that it happened to. Because I'm in such a different place in my life and I'm married and I have children and it's almost like how did I ever do that? How did I ever find myself in that place where I allowed myself to be treated that way, that I viewed myself that way? I mean, just to what we were talking about before, the feeling of belittling yourself or making yourself as small as possible

to make others around you feel as comfortable as possible was something that started obviously at a young age for me and continued through that very unhealthy relationship that I was in. And that's what I think back to and think like, that's just, that's an entirely different person I don't recognize, I don't relate to it all. Like, I, yeah, I can't, like,

I can't even put myself in those shoes again. Strange. I'm so grateful for that experience. I'm grateful for all it taught me and where it brought me and ultimately it led me to finding, you know, this incredible partner. Yeah. When you said your parents got divorced

and that sort of broke your heart, I also come from divorced parents. And I don't know how you feel about this. They're like, I have this great desire. To the point where like I sometimes get moved to tears about it, but like I really have a great desire to like succeed at my marriage. And I love both of my parents and they were not great together.

And so I understand that they needed to go their separate ways. But there is something about seeing how hard it was on them because even though they're in a better place now, you know, it was very hard for them just to go through that divorce. Oh yeah. But I remember thinking that too.

I was like, my parents got divorced after being married for 30 years. So when I got married, it wasn't... It was such a long time. Yeah, a long time. But me, when I got married, it was not something I took lightly. Like I went into it fully aware and was like, this is my forever person. This is our forever life. And I worked really hard to make it work.

And I remember when things would get really tough, I was like, wow, this is our forever life, and I worked really hard to make it work, and I remember when things would get really tough, I was like, wow, this is a lot, this feels like more than I bargained for, but this is what marriage is, like you ride out these harrowing times in order to find the joy on the other side, and like, it's just the roller coaster of life, the ebb and flow, and then ultimately, you got to a point where I was like, it's not supposed to be this hard.

It's not supposed to feel this bad. The person's not supposed to treat you like that. So I'm glad that I found the strength to move on and because I don't know where I would be if I had stayed in that relationship. Was it hard for you to trust getting into another relationship after that? No.

No. I love that. No, not at all. I knew that this was singular to this person and I didn't paint all men with a broad brush of everybody's out to like, no. I was like, that's just that person's issues. I met my husband while I was in the middle of getting a divorce and I just remember thinking, oh, this poor guy. This poor sweet guy, I don't know if I'm ready for

this, but I knew he was such a catch and he was so wonderful. And the fact that he withstood what he did because that other side of my life was not easy and that person made it as trying and challenging and awful as they possibly could. And I knew that I was in the right relationship because my husband Taylor was so, he was just not bothered by it at all. He had just let everything sort of roll off his back and I was like, if he can weather this,

like I think we're probably gonna be okay. We're probably gonna make it. And this is probably the person I should have been with all along. Yeah, yeah. Where did you two meet? We met because of Instagram, not on Instagram. It was like pre-DM day.

So it's not like we slid into each other's DMs. But he's a musician. And I heard a song of his on the radio. I was listening to the radio. And I went on the radio, I was listening to the radio, and I went on the radio station's website because I didn't hear, like they didn't back announce who the band was, and I like went on the website trying to figure out like, okay it was after this song, but before this song, I figured out who it was and I went on iTunes and saw they had a new album coming

out and I took, you know, that like Polaroid Instagram, like 2015 days, of like put up like a snapshot of his album that was coming out. Like, can't wait, this is gonna be the soundtrack of my summer, something really innocuous. And we had a mutual friend who alerted him like, hey, did you see that? Because I didn't tag them.

It was not those, it was very early days of Instagram. And I am. Which by the way, when I first joined it for Instagram, I thought it was just a photo editing app. I was like editing photos and I didn't know that I was actually posting it for the, I wanted to see. Like there's like literally my first three.

I want to go back and find it. Pictures are like the same like flower arrangement with different filters. Didn't know what I was doing. Okay. Oh sweet, Jesse. I was the same. I was like a late adopter and I didn't know what I was doing. Okay, so. Oh sweet, Jesse. I was the same. I was like a late adopter

and I didn't know what I was doing. Everything at that same filter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he like found a way to like send me a little note to say like, thank you for talking about our album or whatever. And we started corresponding that way. And then we took it to text

and then we went out and had like an epic three hour meal. And that was it. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. It's almost like the universe did sort of reward you for acknowledging that you weren't in a healthy relationship because so many great things happened. Right after that.

When you got out of that. It was wild. I was like, oh, this is like as soon as I extricated myself from that marriage, I like, I met Taylor shortly thereafter. And then by the end of that year, I got this audition for This Is Us. And so by the time, you know, the end of creative music, and I was starting to create music again. And I was with a partner who was like, we should make music together. And I'm like, I've been down this road before. And I've been, you know, all of these empty promises and we've written stuff and it never came to fruition.

And I'm like, I'm not gonna put my, I was so like, gun shy to put myself in that position again. I'm like, maybe those things are not supposed to- Which is a terrible place to create from. Yeah. You know, no one wants to create from a place where they feel scared to create. I had so much baggage and to be with a partner who truly was able to see through that and

say like, yeah, yeah, but that's not what we're doing here. What did it feel like to actually create and then be successful and have, you know, something to show for it? Something to show for, yeah. It's the, like, it's the greatest get get like I could get emotional thinking about it Yeah, did you kind of forget what that felt like? I forgot what it found like to stand on my own two feet and go like oh, I know how to do this I don't need someone sort of like I

Don't need to ride their coattails. So happy to find each other. Yeah, you too. He's you'll love him He's the best. I'm excited to meet him. Yeah, did you always know that you wanted to have you two found each other. Oh, thank you. You too. You'll love him. He's the best. I'm excited to meet him. Yeah. Did you always know that you wanted to have kids? Yes. How old are your kids?

They're kind of on the same like, trajectory here. Three and a half and 14, 15 months or something. What? Yeah. Yeah. Are those 15 months and almost three? Yeah. Yeah.

Wild. Yeah. Boy girl. Two boys. Two boys too? Same. Holy cow, we gotta get those kids together. That's crazy. I know, I know. I love it. I love it so much.

Me too. It's everything. And then you started touring, but then you stopped that again when you were pregnant. Yeah. That was beautiful. Oh my goodness. What are we looking at?

Okay, so banana bar. This is a banana bar. Peanut butter crisp on the bottom of it. Banana custard and milk chocolate mousse. And then this is the lemon chamomile dessert with calamansi and there's a sweet fritter on top. It's like a break into it and get it's like crunchy texture, very like light and bright. Holy cow. This has been absolutely incredible. Thank you so much. This is fantastic.

Right, gracious. Yeah, I had to cancel the tour when I was pregnant with Ozzy, because I just thought, oh, I worked till, like two weeks before I gave birth to Gus, and I thought, oh, that's gonna be the same thing. I can go on the road. I've had easy pregnancies,

and then I really underestimated like A, the lack of sleep that I would get on a tour bus. It was, I just like could not sleep. And also traveling with a 15 month old. Like it was, I'm like, what? This is so- Kind of like what we were saying. Yeah, what was I thinking?

But you know, it was such a fun experience. We did like half the tour. It was great. We had so much fun, but I can't wait to figure out a way to get back out there at some point. Yeah. When you were touring before the pandemic, was that the first time you had actually toured since? We didn't get to tour.

You didn't tour at all. Literally, like our tour was starting like March 20th or something. So then the tour, when you were pregnant, was that the first time you toured since you were? And yeah, since I was like 16 or seven, like it's so long. First time I had made like the record that came out in 2020, I hadn't had an album out

since 2009. Like a lot of years, yeah. Yeah. It was a long time. Yeah. So it was a real full, real, real full circle moment of like, whoa. What was that like to be around your fans again

and that sort of capacity? I loved it. I think it was strange, because I feel like some of the audience where people from the past or new songs from the past and then other people are like, oh, the woman from This Is Us is coming. Like, so it was a strange mix of people

that wanted me to sing like songs from Tangled and then some other people that wanted me to talk about This Is Us is coming. So it was a strange mix of people that wanted me to sing songs from Tangled and then some other people that wanted me to talk about This Is Us. It was just- Why would you even talk about this? It's a Disney career that you've also had. That's also a huge thing. It was funny in that sense. I'm like, oh, okay, noted.

I'll have to sort of chat, or people that wanted the songs from a walk to remember. It was interesting to go like, okay. Do you feel a responsibility to. Now I do. I was like, okay, I want everyone to leave a little satisfied. So I binged all of Dr. Death.

Oh my God, no. First of all, it's really good, it's very well done. And I love true crime. I love true crime too. Do you like true crime? Yeah. That banana, peanut butter thing is. Isn't that great? Like just checks every box for me.

Yeah, it's so good. It's so good. With Dr. Death, did you listen to the podcast it was based on? I did. I was like, this story cannot be true. Yeah. It's just a wild ride. It's a wild ride.

Yeah. I'm so interested in, like, the, like, pathology of people and, people and clearly this man is a sociopath and to be able to disassociate and be that much of a narcissist and just the ego and feeling that you're gonna get away with this on a professional and a personal level is so, I can't wrap my brain around it. And your character, Benita, she falls in love with this guy.

She's basically sleeps with her source. She's doing a story about this doctor, falls in love with him, becomes engaged to him, introduces him to her child. And it is one of those, I've listened to so many of these true crime stories and you always think, how could they have gotten themselves into this position?

Listening to it all seems like all the red flags are there. But when you're part of it. When you're part of it, also I just think when someone is a master manipulator, it is like they are just so lethal in the way that they're able to target people and target their vulnerabilities.

And this woman was an investigative journalist. Like it's what she does to suss out people and do background checks. And so anything that would, yeah, raise some sort of alarm or red flag or something was she just, she missed it. Because I think she was so romanticized and suckered into this like charming,

charming man who did the same with his patients quite frankly. It's like how he was able to become the successful surgeon and have people sign up for these like you know this wild innovative surgery where he's like replacing their windpipes with plastic tracheas that he grew. I mean, it's not too farfetched to believe that, and they slowly plant these seeds over time, right? Like over the course of a couple years, they're not out of the gate saying, we're gonna get married and the pope

is gonna officiate our wedding, like on the surface for sure, that is just too much to believe. But over time, when somebody feeds you the lies of, you know, I'm part of some secret society of surgeons that performs on like presidents and diplomats and the way he lives and he's got 50 different phones and he's working in Russia and the UK

and he's all around the world. Like he seems so international and I think she was able to really buy into the whole story that he was selling, but I find that stuff so interesting. So interesting. Yeah, yeah. Tom Peacock, it's, it's very, very, very good.

Oh, you're sweet, thanks, Jesse. And it's also so different than anything you've done, which, you know, I think it's hard, I know, personally, like finding variety in this business, especially when you've done something that people sort of see you as, and they think, okay, that's the thing you do. So all I can say is I'm very impressed

with the fact that you keep sort of breaking the mold and reinventing yourself. And that's something that I think is very hard to do. Thank you. I don't know if it's like really intentional. I'm sorry that I keep like deferring to you, but I know that you can relate like as an actor or creative person, it's like all you want

is to try different things and to challenge yourself. So like it just kind of naturally unfolds that way. And sure, I'm sure you are forever gonna be offered like the fun Mitch roles like in life. But and maybe it is harder for people to see you I'm sure you are forever gonna be offered like the fun Mitch roles in life. But, and maybe it is harder for people to see you outside of that box. So that's why it's fun to like fight for the things

that aren't necessarily obvious to everybody. But yeah, I love that. I love like just trying different things and yeah, trying to do something unexpected just to keep myself interested too. Thanks for doing this. Thank you. I just admire you very much.

Oh, likewise. The real to finally meet you. Likewise, oh my gosh, I'm so touched. Thank you, I'm honored to be here. Next time on Dinners on Me, you know him from Breaking Bad, Malcolm in the Middle, and most recently, Wes Anderson's asteroid city, it's Brian

Cranston. We'll get into the time he was almost arrested for murder, you heard me right, while getting dumped and getting fired are both essentials for success, and a loophole he unintentionally discovered for making some extra royalties on Malcolm in the Middle. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free.

Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me Show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Sam Baer engineered this episode.

Hans Dilshee composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balans-Kolasini and Justin McKita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.