Do Go On - 452 - The Perth Mint Swindle

Episode Date: June 19, 2024

On the 22nd of June 1982, forty nine bars of gold were stolen from the Perth Mint which kicked off an investigation with some incredible twists and turns, tune in to hear the story!This is a comedy/history podcast, the report begins at approximately 05:08 (though as always, we go off on tangents throughout the report).Support the show and get rewards like bonus episodes: patreon.com/DoGoOnPodSupport the show on Apple podcasts and get bonus episodes in the app: http://apple.co/dogoon Live show tickets: https://dogoonpod.com/live-shows/ Watch Do Go On The Quiz Show: https://youtu.be/GgzcPMx1EdM?si=ir7iubozIzlzvWfKSubmit a topic idea directly to the hat: dogoonpod.com/suggest-a-topic/  Instagram: @DoGoOnPodFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DoGoOnPod/Email us: [e-mail] Check out our other podcasts:Book Cheat: https://play.acast.com/s/book-cheatPrime Mates: https://play.acast.com/s/prime-mates/Listen Now: https://play.acast.com/s/listen-now/Who Knew It with Matt Stewart: https://play.acast.com/s/who-knew-it-with-matt-stewart/ Our awesome theme song by Evan Munro-Smith and logo by Peader ThomasDo Go On acknowledges the traditional owners of the land we record on, the Wurundjeri people, in the Kulin nation. We pay our respects to elders, past and present. REFERENCES AND FURTHER READING:60 Minutes Australia: Dead Man Talking (2004)https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-01/the-other-perth-mint-scandal-of-the-mickelberg-brothers-swindle/102113790https://www.smh.com.au/national/gold-fingered-20020612-gdfcz1.htmlhttps://thewest.com.au/news/crime/gypsy-jokers-don-hancock-murder-mayhem-and-a-suburban-car-bombing-what-happened-at-the-ora-banda-inn-ng-b881203595z Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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In Season 3, Carmy and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade. you moves the world. X's The Bear are streaming June 27th, only on Disney Plus. Hello and welcome to another episode of Do Go On, my name is Dave Warnocky and as always, I'm here with Matt Stewart and Jess Perkins. I'm number two. I'm number two. Hi, am I three or one? One because your name came first. Whoa, oh no, Dave's came first. Oh yeah.

I'm number three. I'm always number one. Yay. What a narcissist. Well, yes. So good to be here. So good to be alive, actually. Well, yes.

So good to be here. So good to be alive actually. Well, let me rephrase that. How good is it to be alive? Yes, we always start with a question in there. How good is it to be alive? It's good to approach life with curiosity. And instead of just sort of projecting your own thoughts on it and saying, it's

good to be alive, you've thought, no, I'll put it out there. Yeah. Put it in. How good is it to be alive? Finish every sentence with an upward inflection. Yeah and then you're Australian. And I personally wish I was never born. Great.

Great to hear from you. Hmm. And shall I explain how the show works? Please. Basically what we do here at Do Go On is take it in turns to report on a topic often suggested to us by one of the listeners we go, I do a little bit research, then bring it back to the group in the form of a report. And the two people not reporting, they never know what the topic is going to be. It's always a little secret, which is a little bit of fun. A sexy secret.

A sexy secret. Well, it could be. We don't know. Because Matt's turned to report and- And he's the sexy one. Yeah, typically his reports are very sexy. He's a sexy man. Especially if he's talking about something French.

Now, we always start with a question to get us onto the topic, Matt. Do you have a question to ask? Sure do. This is two-parter. So there's a key place where this takes place. Key place where this takes place. Great start. Real good start. I'm so sorry.

New listeners are turning off in their droves. But anyway, so the question, two-parter, so it's a two-word answer. Number one, what is the most isolated capital city in the world? Correct. And number two, capital or are we talking about national capital cities? Come on. Well, he said I'm correct. So it's a state capital. Any capital. It's just, what are you? And the second part, what is defined as an aromatic plant native to temperate regions of the old world,

several kinds of which are used as culinary herbs. So it's the Perth. Herb. Wattle. It's a building. It's a place. Oh, it's a building. It's also a type of plant. Well, no, the word is. So it's a place, the Perth. Rose. Mint.

Yes, correct. Well done, Dave. So I guess half a point each. Great, I'll take that. Or full points to Dave, I'm not sure. What? No, I think we- I reckon we'll see that.

Maybe a point each to keep that spreadsheet. Okay. Is it Bob who keeps track? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Same Bob. We don't want to make it too complicated. I don't think there's decimals in that, so yeah. Point each, point H.

Love that. Points are round. The Perth Mint. The Perth Mint Swindle is this week's topic. I've put this up for the vote before! Oh my gosh, exciting! Well, this is what I put up. But I didn't look into it too.

I got the one-sentence summary and I thought, that's all I need to know. Petron will decide, but they didn't want it that week, but maybe they do want it this week. Day's reaction just sounded like Ned Flanders seeing his plant die. Yeah. But anyway. So yeah, a couple of people have suggested this. Troy from Perth and also Aaron Price from Perth. That's a big story in Perth.

I put up, so I've been away on tour for the last few weeks at the time recording and- And we've missed you. I've built up a built up a list and I missed you too. And I built up a list of eight options and this got a quarter of the vote. Eight? So like double, mathematically speaking, you've got quarter of the vote means about double. It's a... It's fair share. It's fair share.

If it was fair. Grady. But it wasn't fair. I just want to say to the Patreons, don't get used to getting eight options. Why that's why? Because Jess and I have spoken maybe even recently when we- Very recently, yeah. That we often spend hours just staring at the spreadsheet of Jack and Honey McVitie

because there's 12,000 suggestions and it's a lot of pressure because you've got to make sure there's enough in it. Like with when I put this one up, you know, oh, there's a sentence there. Okay. Yeah, I know the sources exist. Okay, I won't read into it too much My first thing is usually like is there a Wikipedia page? And if there isn't You're hoping for like a long form Something accessible on YouTube. Yeah, yeah, it happened in your own personal life Yes, stuff like that can bring knowledge, but it can take hours. So that's impressive

Hey good on you and a lot of votes. So the people want to hear about a swindle this way. They do. Yes I love the word swindle. Me too. Shall I get into it? What do you reckon Dave? Are you ready or did you want to just have some bit of chit chat? I'm gonna have another drink if that's okay. Yeah, okay. All right. Glug. All right, glug.

There you go. Yep. Okay. I'm ready. You sound refreshed. All right. So I'm taking you to the 22nd of June, 1982. Where were you?

Where were you? Me? Yeah. Not alive. Okay. Dave? Also not alive. Yeah, I'm two days older than you.

I think I was probably shopping around for my new old folks home. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I think you moved in 83, didn't you? Yes, yeah. Into the new old folks home. And the outlaw can shut down when you outlived all the other residents? I outlived all the residents and the owner. Yeah, and all the staff. And he opened it as a baby when he inherited it from his dad. I outlived all the residents. I outlived all the residents and the owner. Yeah, and all the staff.

He opened it as a baby when he inherited it from his dad. So, yeah. New listeners, Matt is very old. Old as the wind, or older than the wind, some say. So, 1982. Only canonically, in real life he's like a totally normal cool age. Yeah, the coolest age of all. A billion.

Whatever age you think is cool, that's what he is. So the 22nd of June, 982, the Perth Mint received phone calls from three men who identified themselves as Bob Fryer, Mr. York and Mr. Blackwood. The three wealthy... Bob gave away a lot more than that. Yeah. He said, Hey, it's Bob Fryer. And then I was like, that was Mr. York.

Oh, we're not doing first names. Oh, fucking hell. Fuck. Great. Let me try again. This is Mr. Friar. Well, I know it's you, Bob. Fuck. Hang up and start again.

All right, how about this? I'm Mr. B. John Friar. Oh. No, okay. I'm an anonymous man of 192 Fuller's Road. Damn it. Okay, no. So yeah, Bob Fryer, Mr. York, Mr. Blackwood.

These three wealthy businessmen each put in an order for gold bullion. Between them, they order a total of 49 bars of gold with a value of $653,000. Can I just order one more? 49? Surely a case is 50. Yeah, it's a bit odd, isn't it? A case.

Just give us a case of gold. How do they sell them? Yeah. Surely it's like, you know, fish and chip rules. Throw in it. Just throw it in. I've asked for four potato cakes, but really, give me five. Like a baker's dozen.

Yeah, round it up. This should be a banker's 50. Yeah. I think. Give us a banker's 50. Yeah. I think. So. Banker's 50, you know, 49 plus change. For 600 and what? $653,000.

So this is in 1982 money. It's over $6 million these days. Wow. Holy shit. Big chunk of change. You can see it is a big difference between 49 and 50. Yes. Yeah, they're like, this is all they could scram.

Yes. Shortly after, a guard representing each buyer arrived in their own separate armored vehicle. All three transactions were made between 1.15 and 2.15 that afternoon. Beautiful. Just after lunch. Yeah. And they've got their own private vehicles. Yeah. That's amazing. Well, you're ordering gold in bulk. Yeah. You're doing okay.

Okay. I can only order gold in like, um, pieces about this big and they come in packs of 20. Oh, little pellets. Yeah. Just as holding up the size of what a- A $1 coin. Yeah. Yeah.

And you, what do you do with those? I put them in the washing machine. Uh-huh. And then I- Laundering money, huh? I'm having fun here early. Good signs. Bodes well. Bodes well.

We talked for way too long before starting recording. We've been here for nearly two hours. It's now, it's lunchtime and we've just started. So this is gonna, it's not gonna go well. We should roll on it and just put it all out one time. Yeah. So people can see how inane we really are. They're like, geez, they go on tedious tangents.

On the show, you should hear off the show. You should hear off the show. It's crazy. If you want to hear tedious, we can show you You should hear off the show. It's crazy. If you want to hear tedious, we can show you tedious. Unfortunately, we just like to catch up. Matt showed us his elbow before. Yeah.

That's how. Look at this. Jess and I were trying to remember things from Mass. Anyway, now we are doing the tediousness of it. Three trucks have backed up to take their cut of the bars. Yeah, spread over an hour's period. Yeah, yeahness of it. Three trucks have backed up to take their cut of the bars. Yeah, spread over an hour's period. Yeah, yeah, love it. According to Andrea Mays, writing for the ABC, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation,

each presented a building society check to the Mint for the precious medal, which were accepted and the bullion was duly handed over. OK. Great. How do you feel about this as a transaction? Honestly, seems to me completely legit and above board. And I think this is going to be quite a short episode. Have they called up together or they just happened to call a similar time and say, hey, we'll be there within the app. They don't know each other or they are three? I think as far as everyone's concerned, it was three separate transactions.

Three separate guys just happened to call up for gold that day. But given that the title is the Perth Mint Swindle, I'm thinking these aren't legitimate checks or legitimate customers. That's what I'm thinking, but that's just because I've watched a lot of like true crime stuff and like criminal minds and stuff like that. You have a criminal mind. I have a criminal mind. That's what happens if you watch enough of Criminal Minds, you get one.

You get one. I've watched all the seasons. I've got a criminal mind. I've also watched all of New Girl and Parks and Rec. So I also have a new girl and a park and a rec. Yeah. So, yeah, I get it. That's just what I'm thinking.

But I understand you probably wouldn't have put that together yet. But that's sorry to ruin it, Matt, but I think it's probably not legit. No, I'm more of an NCIS man. So I'm waiting for the Navy tour. Okay. Well, I just I couldn't believe that a little piece of paper with some scribbles on it would be enough. For the six million in today's money.

It's crazy. Like today, if you were taking a check, I'm guessing they'd want to get it cashed first or they'd have to be pretty sure that it's a legit check. Yeah. Oh no, don't worry. These guys called up on the telephone, so I think it's okay. It should be fine. I mean, I haven't seen their ID or anything.

Two of them haven't even given us it's okay. It should be fine. I mean, I haven't seen their ID or anything. Two of them haven't even given us their first name. Yeah. Oh well. But they've got these legit armoured trucks and pieces of paper. Yeah, I mean, a swindler wouldn't have an armoured truck. That's a good point. Mm-hmm.

May says, it wasn't until the following day that it was discovered the checks had been stolen and the money didn't exist. Oh my God. It took a full day. So they put the checks in the drawer. I'll catch these tomorrow. All good. Yeah, it's 2.15. I don't have time to get any work done.

I have to sit here and wait for five. They don't even add up to a million between the three of them. Do we even bother? No, who cares? Let's wait and let's wait until- Wait, wait. Why don't we just put it under petty cash? I imagine mints are like banks and, you know, they open at 9.30 and close at three o'clock

in the afternoon. You know, that was the end of their day. Incredibly. And they're only Monday to Friday. They're very accessible places. You also can't get cash at a lot of them now, so that's fun. Banks don't have cash anymore? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, so I do have to go get one dollar coins for the washing machine all the time to launder money and I can only go to certain branches. I had to call the bank the other day. Hello. Because my go-to branch, my go-to branch was temporarily closed. I hope you didn't give him your full name. And I was like, can you, I had to speak to someone in customer service. Can you tell me which bank, which branch I can go to that I can actually get coins?

Sorry, we're all cashless now. She had to put me on hold for five minutes to figure it out. That is so wild. Yeah, it doesn't make sense. So what do they do? Ah, um, home loans. Oh yeah. Uh.

Yeah, all that made up money. Money you never see. Yeah, but not, not coins. Hmm. I think that's clever. They can't get swindled that way. Yeah. Can't steal from them. Wild stuff. I'm going to say sw They can't get swindled that way. Yeah. They can't steal from them.

Wild stuff. I'm going to say swindle so much. Just love the word. Such a good word. So like heist is fun, but swindle. And swindles is a good nickname. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Swindle. Jess Swindles Perkins. Oh, that's good stuff. I feel like you should go to jail for a heist, but swindles you go. All right. Yeah. Good one. Swindle you're a bit jail for a heist, but Swindles, you go, all right. Good one. Swindle, you're a bit of a scamp. That was partly my fault.

Yeah. You got me. All right. That's pretty good. It's like a prank. Yeah. Yeah. It's a funny scam.

I think a few people involved in this wish that was the case. So yeah, they didn't realize that the checks were, well, they weren't fake, but they were stolen. So not legit. This wasn't realised until a man who had been hired as a courier to move the gold got a bit suspicious and called the cops. Thanks to him, this is what they were able to ascertain. So after the gold had left the mint, it was taken to an office in Subiaco, which is in the inner west of Perth. And this office was being rented by a company known as Fryer Investments. You might recognise the name from Bob Fryer. I do recognise the name from Bob Fryer. Any connection?

The office had been set up months prior, but it seems no one from the business ever took up occupancy there. They've been paying rent there for quite a while, but it seems no one from the business ever took up occupancy there. Huh, that's weird. They've been paying rent there for quite a while, but know what? They kept saying to the manager, the woman who was managing the office block, Oh yeah, we've just got held up, so we're not going to make it out this week. And they just kept saying that and she's like, oh, fair enough, they're paying rent. Perth is a very trusting place. Yeah, well, they were paying rent on time.

The guy sort of he called up the M.O. of this guy is using the phone. He does all his business by phone. He's a man on the go. So via the phone. Not really, because it would have been a landline. Oh, true. He's a man in one. State tree man. Yeah. Nowadays, absolutely man on the go.

But back then, man sitting in an armchair next to a- Could he have been a car phone guy? When did they come in? Oh. Remember the- That feels like an 80s thing, doesn't it? Yeah, it feels real 80s. Yeah.

The big car phone. Imagine that, a car with a phone. That's crazy. That's the future. You could be chatting on the phone in the car? In the car. That's wild. Possible.

My uncle had one and I couldn't believe it. That's so cool. It would have like a little pig ta- like a little pig swirly aerial. That's how you knew. I wonder if they needed them or if that was just like people doing it for status. Yeah, I got a car phone. Look, you can tell because I got the squiggly aerial. Pretty cool.

Just in case you want to know which car to rob. So that would have been in the nineties though. I've just looked it up. It says the car phone, this service originated with the Bell system and was, oh hang on, yeah, and was first used in Missouri in 1946. What? It would have been very different, I'm sure. Yeah, I mean, cars were very different as well.

But yeah, apparently that's how early they sell it. Wow, I didn't realize that. What about mobile phones then, or cell phones? Cell phones. If you want, just for the Americans, cell phone. Am I saying that right? They wouldn't get it otherwise. You can get me on my cell.

Get me on my cell. On my pager. Yeah, just bit me on my pager. Bit me. If you want to bit me, I got my pager. Okay. Hey, I'm going to need a plumber. My faucet is dripping. I got a leaky faucet.

Not this again. Americans wrote in to say they didn't mind it. That doesn't mean they love it. That was implicit consent. Am I using implicit right there? I don't know. Impless it. I I using implicit right there? I don't know. Implicit. I'm giving implicit consent. That's a yes from us. That's a yes from me.

First handheld cellular mobile phone, 1973. Oh, wow. It weighed two kilos. Amheld. Yes, Dave, most people could pick up something that weighs two kilos. I think if you look at the first photo, the first phone was owned by Mr. Olympia. So maybe he was on the go, this guy. Anyway, so via the phone, he set up the office, including signage.

He said, can we get some signage? Very important that we get frying investments up on the board. And yeah, like I said, they pay their own on time. So the office manager had no real reason to suspect anything strange was going on. I think they've got a sign there, legit. Yeah. By the phone, a man also organized a temp secretary for the 22nd, the day of the swindle. Her job was pretty chilled. She was told to wait for security guards to arrive and then to give them each a check,

which they then took to the Mint. Right. Those security agencies were also hired via telephone. They were each told to pick up a check from the Subiaco office before using them to pay for the gold and then returning with the gold to the office. A fourth security guard was hired also by phone and his job was just to sit and wait at the office for the gold to arrive and he would wait with it until a courier came to pick it up. Now that, Cruz, you'd be loving these gigs.

Yeah, that's great. I want to be, do you want to be the security guard or the secretary? I don't want to be the security guard guarding 49 gold bars. I'd be a little bit worried. Okay. So what was the answer to my question? Oh, so let me be the secretary. Great. I don't fucking, I don't need to hear the why. Yeah, we don't need the workings out, Dave. I had a feeling you probably did want to be the security guard. I was happy to do it.

Are you happy to do it? I was just, I just wanted to fucking just answer the question. But if you would have got to have a gun. Jeez, well, boys. Does that mean Jessa's the security guard? Yeah, I'm security guard. That's the only spot left. Can the secretary have a gun?

No. Okay. I'll be the swindler then, I guess. Yeah. You're the man spot left. Can the secretary have a gun? No. Okay. I'll be the swindler then, I guess. Yeah. You're the man on the phone. I'm the man on the phone. You're always on the phone and on the go. The courier was told the boxes were full of mining equipment and he received instructions

on his CB radio. Oh, a bit of a change in their mode. He's got a radio to this guy. And he was told that he was speaking to a man named Frank. He was told to take the boxes of mining equipment to the small airport of Jandacot, 20 ks south of the Mint. There he was told to drop them off at the northern end of the tarmac between two isolated hangars. He's like, oh, this is a bit weird.

Does that feel weird? Yeah, it feels weird. To drop them off at a, yeah, on is a bit weird. Does that feel weird? Yeah, it feels weird. Drop them off at a, yeah, on a runway, not like at an office or something, yeah. Did they at any stage say, do not look in the box? Whatever you do, don't look in the box. Because that is us. No, because the courier has taken the courier's oath.

Yeah. Oh, okay, right. You never look in the box. You never look in the box. Is that something you think would normally happen? That your mail, if you don't explicitly tell the mailman. Do not look. Don't look in the box, then they go, he didn't say anything. I'm having a peek.

I can open this bill. Have a look. Oh, hot water's a little up this- Yeah, like, hand it over to you at the door. You know, someone's been having a long shower. So he did this, he followed the instructions, but then he felt a bit weird about it. So, yeah, he went back to have a look and the boxes were still just sitting there where he left them. So he's like, that's weird.

But he still felt a bit strange about it. He ended up calling the cops. Did he look in the box? He never looked in the box. What's in the box? By the time he- because he was just thinking it was mining equipment, but he's like, maybe it's stolen or something. And why am I leaving it here in the middle of nowhere?

So he calls the cops, he's a narc, and he, by the time the cops go and look, it's gone. Presumably it's been flown somewhere, but as to where the cops were in the dark. Right, but they're like, thank goodness we don't have to do anything, it's no longer there. Yeah. Can't do anything about something that's not there. Yeah. That's not our job.

To find stuff that isn't there anymore. Exactly. That's not on us. What, you want us to solve the perfect crime? They got away with it. Move on. That could be anywhere and our jurisdiction isn't everywhere. No.

Okay. Okay. We're not... Internet Interpol. Exactly. Yeah. You wanna help with this? Call Interpol. Call Interpol.

No, I don't have their phone number. They're fucking Interpol. Exactly. Yeah. You want to help with this? Call Interpol. Call Interpol. No, I don't have their phone number. They're fucking Interpol. Yeah. I'm not sure you can just Google their phone number. They're pretty secretive. Yeah.

Okay. God. God. 1-800-INTERPOL. Just looked it up. Wow. That's not true. So.

Imagine that. Leading the investigation, and I'm afraid they did investigate. What? But it's not their jurisdiction. It's not their job. Oh my God. To find something that's been stolen. Wow.

The main man leading the investigation was a guy called Detective Sergeant Don Hancock. Hell yeah. Nicknamed the Grey Fox or I see some places the Silver Fox. Okay. He was known as a hard man of the Perth criminal investigation branch. Old school cop. He gets results. Not always by the book, perhaps.

Yeah. And not always results, but he gets something. Yeah. Sometimes it's a coffee, but he always gets something. So a month passes. Sometimes it's in trouble. Sometimes it's a firm talking to. Yeah, you get in trouble with the law, get in trouble with the wife, get in trouble with

them all. Always in trouble. A month passes and they really don't have many leads at all. The public pressure is starting to mount. They want to find the culprits. And I also imagine pressure is probably coming from the state government and probably people at the mints as well, who must be a little embarrassed by this. The mints saying, yeah, the public really...

Are the public giving any shit? Oh my god, you really got to solve this. The public are... they're just... they're about to protest. It's all they're talking about. They're very upset. They're very upset. Where's the guy who runs the mint, who just like handed out boxes full of gold for some pieces of paper?

You got some paper? Yeah, great. What do you want? 49? All right, we could have given you more, but if that's all you want. Yeah, I'll chuck in 50. Yeah, that's easier for me.

I don't have to worry about looking after it. Yeah, you take it. Clean me up. Enjoy. More of a silver guy myself. Yeah, less for me to worry about looking after it. You take it. Clean me up. Enjoy. More of a silver guy myself. Yeah. Less for me to worry about. White gold. Yeah, I'm a white gold man. I'm a white gold man.

A bit yellow for me. A bit gaudy. Yeah. But hey, to each their own. So weeks go by without any major developments. And yes, I do realise that I am changing tense a bit. And I'm sorry about that. Okay. I'm slipping from present to past on it.

It's fun. It's fun. I like it. All of a sudden I'm getting, oh, this is urgent. It makes me feel like you're just telling me a story rather than reading from your laptop. Yeah, I like it. It makes me feel connected to you. We're in the present now, but everyone listening to it by that time, this will be the past to them.

Oh my god, that's a trip. But yeah, shit. Holy shit. Holy shit. That's crazy. I think we're time travelling right now. Oh my god. So yeah, weeks go by, no major developments, but then out of the blue, an arrest was made. The police, for some reason, narrow in on the Meikleberg brothers. Oh. Peter, Brian and Ray. Oh, there's three of them. OK. For some reason. I on the Meikleberg brothers. Oh, Peter, Brian and Ray.

Oh, there's three of them. Okay. For some reason, I just thought two. Me too. Because brothers is two. Yeah. Isn't that stupid? There could be 50 of them.

Could be heaps of them. The Beagle brothers? How many of them were there? I don't know what that is. What's a Beagle brother? They were the baddies from DuckTales, weren't they? No, that was the Beagle boys. I'm so sorry.

That's embarrassing. That is embarrassing. That is embarrassing. Embarrassing. And there were quite a few of them. How embarrassing. But they were the boys. They were the boys. This is the brothers.

Yeah. Oh yeah, okay. There is quite a lot of them. Yeah, that's boys. So do you think these guys should be called the Mikkelberg brroys? The broys? No, I think if they are brothers, they can be called the brothers. OK, yeah. I just thought that's only two.

So we got Ray. Yes. The eldest. He's 36. Old. He'd served in Vietnam and was XSAS. Wow. Which is in the Australian army. That's sort of like the full on. Yeah. Yeah, the proper special services. Yeah. They're full on. They have Yeah, the proper special services. Yeah.

They're full on. They have not found any controversy in recent times. Absolutely not. And he and his brother, Peter, 22. Oh, baby, bit of a big gap there. Abalone divers at this point. All right, so is Peter the youngest? Peter's the youngest.

So there's one in the middle. One in the middle, but- But still big gaps. Yeah, well, I mean, number two, Brian, 34, was a helicopter pilot. So he could fly planes and helicopters. This is pretty convenient. One of them's great at diving. One of them's special forces. Yeah. One's the helicopter guy.

Yeah. And of course, the gold was left at an airport and flown. And this wasn't a commercial airport. This was, you know, their equivalent of Morabbin Airport. Yeah. You know, the little- Small airport. Small planes. Small planes. And possibly it's been hidden in a baloney. I'm not sure what that is.

It's like a mollusk. Yeah. And- You've got to dive real deep for it, don't you? And we can also pretty safely assume that Peter was an accident. Because he's that many years younger. Yeah, because you got 36, 34, 22. No, there can be a big gap. That's a fucking huge gap.

He's an accident. I reckon that they were like, these first two are so good. Why don't we have a third many years later? Yeah, now that we've seen how they've turned out. Now that we've got teenagers, let's do a baby again. These are awesome. Can I just double check the gap between you and- Seven years.

So this is a- feels like a projection thing. No are awesome. Fantastic. Can I just double check the gap between you and- Seven years. Okay. So this is a, feels like a projection thing. No, no, no, no, no. Seven years, I'm a blessing. Okay. A miracle. Yeah. Yeah.

A lot of pleasant surprise. What's the threshold? Ten years. Okay. So pleasant surprise under ten, over ten is- Accident. Accident. Absolutely.

Or, dad was away at war. Yeah. Like there can be gaps for that. Yeah. But other than that, no excuses. So it Was Away At War. Yeah, like there can be gaps for that. Yeah. But other than that, no excuses. It's a long war. Yeah. Some of them have been long, Dave. Yeah. OK, 99 years or something. Yeah, what about the 99 year war?

What about the 99 year war? And 90 Mile Beach, you know what I mean? Things can be long. Things can be long. Not in my experience. So all three brothers had clean records. All two brothers in the mistake. Well, yeah, that's right.

I'm on Peter's side. Yeah, I'm pro-Peter. You're right though. The mistake had been fined $50 for possession of an unlicensed firearm. Okay, I'm no longer on Peter's side. I mean, that's like a very minor charge. So they basically were all, as one article put it, clean skins. Okay. Right.

Isn't that a type of wine? Yeah. If it doesn't have like the marketing label on it and you don't know what wine it's from, just the region, I think. I used to work in a bottle shop. So according to the Sydney Morning Herald, on July the 26th, 1992, Peter Mikkelberg, the youngest, the mistake, I don't like calling him that,

but that's Jess's word. And she's a journalist, so I have to- I'm a journalist. I have to- Quote the journalist, please. I have to quote the journalist, please. Why haven't I used that before? I can make you say anything. Yeah.

Let's quote the journalist, please. Sorry, quote the journalist, please. No, because then it puts everything on me. Absolutely, we're this, Yeah, we're this... Your mouthpiece. Shit. So according to the City Morning Herald, on the 26th of July, 982, we're a bit over a month from the swindle, Peter Mikkelberg, the youngest, was driving to his home in the northern suburbs of Perth

when a car pulled across in front of him, forcing him to brake suddenly. It was the police. Mikkelberg was bundled into the police car and taken to Belmont police station. What do they do with his car? You know? I'm sure they probably have valet parking. Yeah, do they just like pull it over the side of the road or just leave it on the middle of the road with the hazards on?

I'm pretty sure every cop car has two cops in the front, one valet, parker in the back. Yes. Right. Yeah. Give you a little ticket. Yeah. Have a great night, sir.et, Parker in the back. Yes. Right. Yeah. I'm going to give you a little ticket. Yeah. Have a great night, sir. Yeah. Have a great night, sir. And you are expected to tip. Yeah.

He's your stub. Tip not included. The Silver Fox Hancock was waiting at Belmont Police Station that rainy day when Peter Mikkelberg, the youngest and police thought most vulnerable of the brothers arrived. Because he's young and a mistake. Yeah, they thought he's the one that they could crack him. They could crack him. Being a mistake doesn't mean unloved.

You just weren't expected. Unexpected. That's a nicer term, unexpected. Yeah. Well, I mean, but isn't that what- People are going to hate this. People with big gaps are going to hate this. I am joking. Isn't that what a blessing- you refer to yourself as a blessing? A blessing, yes.

But quite a lot harsher the mistake. Yeah. Damn. Yeah. Okay. You just sort of half walked it back. So Hancock, the Silver Fox. Mistakes can be blessings.

You can learn from mistakes. True. You should. It just sounds like they didn't have any more kids after him. So that's the lesson. We don't know that. We don't know that. That's the lesson. They went, no, no We don't know that. That's the lesson.

They went, no, no, no, we are done. Can I say, 12 year aged cat, we don't know that. There might have been four sisters in the middle there. True. Oh my God. Oh my God. True. Boy, boy, girl, girl, girl, girl, girl, Peter.

There's 16 years between my dad and his eldest brother. Sounds like a few mistakes were made. Six more kids in the middle, yeah. Yeah, I think my- Don't see the youngest. My eldest auntie and the youngest auntie, there's 20 something years between us. Yeah, okay. But they are 14 kids.

13 kids. That's too many kids. It's so many that I'm not exactly sure of a certain number. Do you know all their names? Yeah, but I wouldn't put money on remembering them all in one go. If I saw them all, I'd name them. You'd need a pen and paper. Yeah.

More aunties than members of the Wu-Tang Clan. That's impressive. That's a good fact. That's a good fact. That's a good fact. Put that on the resume. Maybe it should, should they have, instead of calling themselves the brothers, maybe these guys should have called themselves the Meckleburg clan. Yeah, like that.

Yeah, like that. Dave, you're absolutely right. They could be. They could have other brothers. Yeah, they're just aren't included in the criminal. Yeah, you're right. At this stage. I take it back.

Maybe it's not an accident. Maybe the accident came many years later. Yeah, the accident, the actual accident. Cheryl's like, what the hell? That's me. I'm the mistake, the actual accident. Cheryl's like, what the hell? It's me. I'm the mistake, how dare you? Take my title.

Peter, the golden boy. We all love Peter. So Hancock is waiting at Belmont Police Station when the younger Mikkelberg Peter arrives. Hancock's there with another officer, a junior, more junior detective, at least to him, named Anthony Lewandowski.

Author Avon Lovell, who wrote a book about the case in 1985, just a few years later, suggested the Belmont police station was a strange choice of station to take him to, as there was a closer station in Perth City, maybe one that would normally have been used for such a thing. That's a bit strange. okay. And as the Sydney Morning Herald writes, stranger still was that by the time Mikkelberg arrived, all the officers stationed there had gone, except the officer in charge, and he soon left as well. So the young Mikkelberg was left alone

with Hancock and Lewandowski. There the two police officers say Mikkelberg confessed, which they wrote down word for word as he gave it to them orally, implicating himself and his two brothers. Despite supposedly admitting to the crime, Mikkelberg did not sign the confession. This is soundly little suspicious so far. Sounding to me, ethical. Yeah. That's for sure.

Yeah, yeah. Those are my words, definitely. But I won't sign it. Yeah. That's what for sure. Yeah, yeah. Those are my words, definitely. But I won't sign it. Yeah. That's what he said. He said it. Those are my words. I can see the silver fox being played by like Statham. He says, yeah, I'll do it by the book. And then he hits him with the book. Yeah.

Is it Statham with a silver wig? Yeah. That would look awesome. A real quiff. Yeah. Like huge. Yes. A real quiff. That's in the trailer. I do things by the book. And then the next day he's just beating the shit out of somebody with a book.

Luckily, I. Took my brain just a second to differentiate between quiff and queef. Anyway, so, so yeah, he's admitted it, according to the two officers. They've written it down word for word, longhand. Don't have a tape of anything. No tape. Nobody else was around. It was only 982. Tapes weren't working.

All the tapes weren't working. Yeah, nobody. Somebody hadn't rewound them. We sent everyone else home. Everyone else is gone. Well, that's a shame. So yeah, I like those little police stations that just close. They just do like normal business hours and then off they go.

Yeah. See you later. Yeah. And you're like, okay. Crime doesn't happen overnight in those areas. That's right. So yeah, he didn't sign the confession. According to Mays, Peter would later testify Hancock beat him and made him strip naked. But despite that, he refused to sign a confession to a crime he said he didn't commit. Two days later, the Meikleberg brothers were charged

and to go along with the confession, Don, the Grey Fox, Hancock also produced a vital fingerprint clue, that of Ray Meikleberg, the older brother, on one of the checks used in the swindle. The fingerprint along with the confession were the cornerstones of the prosecution's case. So it's like they're feeling pretty good about this case. They've got a pretty solid case, they think.

Does feel like any confession, especially unsigned, as soon as the person says, no, I didn't do that, it kind of should be discounted, right? Well, I think, I mean, if you get cold feet, I think that you go, oh, you're changing your story now? Why would you have confessed then? And I think it- But then if you say, but I didn't confess, these two guys made it up. Yeah, these two upstanding police officers. Earlier you said apparently that you did this and now you're saying that you never said

that you did this. OK, interesting. Sounds like we should put you away for 25 years, case closed. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Were you the judge on this case? This is all ringing a bell, Dave. I've heard enough. That'll do me. Look, I read the first two sentences of your confession and I got bored, so I'm assuming you did it.

Mate, I've seen your handwriting right here. I didn't write it. It's not- I'm not even saying I wrote it. He did. Well, that's enough for me. That's enough for me. The cop said he wrote it down. Honestly, I-

I know your handwriting. I get your vibe. Okay. Honestly, I know your handwriting. I get your vibe. OK. Also, the handwriting is so bad I couldn't even read it. So I had to get the gist from the cop. But Hancock says, you did it. I believe you did it.

I believe it. Look at that hair. Jury, we don't even need your opinion. Is there any irony in the fact that Hancock couldn't get him to sign it? The John Hancock. The John Hancock. Don't know. Just worth a question. There's something in it. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. God knows we can't figure it out right now, but there's something. I think Americans would love that, though.

I think that's a bit of American terminology. They would love that. They would love that. Oh my God, water. We love John Hancock. Yeah, we love John Hancock. I think Dave's the worst at it. Which is amazing.

I know. I think I got some compliments last time. Okay. Just to balance things out, let me do the Australian accent. Nooooo. That's how we say no. Nooooo. Is that right? Nooooo.

Dooooo. Nooooo. Riser blades, pizzeria. Riser blades, pizzeria. Someone, I saw someone quote you on that and they said roller blades, Poizzeria. Love it. Very different. That's great.

Very different. Roller blades, Poizzeria. Poizzeria. Even, is there anything more Australian than roller blades? No. I don't think so. That's why we got them on our flag. That's correct.

So, we've got the confession. This is pretty much open shot case. So yes, so we've got the fingerprint and we've got the confession. During the investigation, they also raided the Mikkelberg's home and invited TV news crews along for the ride with them. Sure. These cops were like, they were doing PR basically. They're going, no, look, we've got it. We're on top of this.

Come bring the cameras in. It's like it's weird. You don't get that normally. Inside the house? Film has gone through their undies drawer. Yeah, I'm sure they're gonna get a fair and impartial trial when we get a jury from this quite small city. Yeah. And everyone's seen this on TV. Yeah, they'll be judged. Fairly. So yeah, you can, I watched the footage, like the the news that night showed it when you can still see that online. And today you'll live together. I think it is like a family home. Oh my god, Brady Bunch.

That's a good point. Maybe it is just one of the brothers' homes. You're 34. Like move the fuck out of home. Know what I mean? Yeah, 36. You talking about me? 36. Well, one of them's 34. Yeah. Got him. I listen. Wrap it 36. You talking to me? 36. Well, one of them is 34. Yeah. Got him. Oh, listen. All right, but we got it. Got him. So they...

Don't move out of home, mate. OK. Move out of my home? Yeah. Give it to me. It sounds like they already knew this was... These were there, but they went in and pulled up the floorboards and found gold and silver bullions. These turned out to be legally owned by the family. They had documentation proving that.

But that didn't really matter because it played really well on camera. The footages of them pulling out gold bullions from the floor. That's pretty sus. Yeah. And yeah, it didn't look good for the brothers. Even though it is legal. Yeah, I don't think they I don't know if they really mentioned that so much. No, I don't think they would have. As a journalist, I wouldn't have mentioned that.

Well, you only have to mention the how, what, when, when, why. Yeah, that's right. And reveal the hiding spot of a family's gold. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you're not allowed to have a private, your own private belongings hidden in your house. You can't do that. Nice try. What if a robber comes in and they can't find your gold?

Hey, think about the robber. Yeah. But I mean, you can sort of see why the police, why the police, why the coppers might think- They'd never say coppers. But why the- The cops think- They'd never say coppers. But why the- The cops. Why the furs. They'd see why the police might have been sus on them.

One of the brothers can fly a plane. Yep. They obviously have an interest in gold bullions. Yes. So, you know, you can sort of see why they might be investigating them. So they might have knowledge of how the system works, where you get gold bullion from, what you have to do to check out. Yeah. These bars. Yeah, because I'd have no idea.

No. But I guess. Well, you gotta give them a call. Yeah. Send a truck. Yeah, I've got a guy coming to pick it up later, give you a piece of paper if you could just put those 49 gold bars in the back of my car for me. How do you buy gold now? Can you buy gold?

I think you can buy it from the mint. Can you just go buy gold? Yeah. Well, you set up one of those businesses in a shopping mall that says we buy gold. Yes. So then you just sit and wait and people bring it to you. Yeah. Way more efficient. Great. You just hope that the gold that comes in pays for the rent. Yeah. So, yeah, things aren't looking good based on, you know, at least the police's PR work and things are about to get even worse for the Meiklebergs as a couple of months later, they were embroiled in another high profile case. What? Oh. According to Mays,

during their investigation, police found a series of incriminating photographs at the home of Brian Pauzy, a friend of Ray Mikkelberg's. And they showed the brothers were connected to another gold scandal, the Yellow Rose of Texas scam. In 1980, a huge nugget weighing more than 11 kilograms had supposedly been found near Kalgoorlie by an elderly prospecting couple. 11 kilos! Big chunk. That's a lot of gold. Yeah.

But as it turned out, what would that be in pounds for our Americans? Is it 2.2? 25? Yeah, right. It's a big, it's a hefty, it's a big, big old thing. Yeah. But as it turned out, this had all been part of a publicity stunt. As May continues, TV crews were called to the Jandacot Airport, which Sam Airport, where

a light plane piloted by Brian Mikkelberg, the pilot brother, had landed. And apparently it had just come from the gold fields. And the woman who, with her husband, supposedly found the nugget emerged carrying the huge rock named the yellow rose of Texas, which makes sense. It was very. Carry 11 kilos, Dave. Can you believe that? Mrs. Olympia.

Yellow Rose of Texas makes sense, doesn't it? I like it. Found in, you know, the Western shine out there. It makes sense. The giant bauble was sold to Alan Bond for $350,000. That feels like a bargain. In today's money. 11 kilos.

Yeah, in today's money, but in today's money, that's like over 3 million. But in an ironic twist, the man who would go on to defraud investors to the tune of tens of millions of dollars was himself duped by the sale. Ah. The nugget turned out to have been manufactured by Ray and Brian. So it was real gold, but I think they'd- They made it look like a nugget.

Made it look like a nugget. Reportedly to promote an adventure and tourism and prospecting business they planned to start and was valued at less than half of what Bond paid. Not only Brian Posse and Ray Mikkelberg were charged, but also Peter and Brian Mikkelberg, it's confusing because there's two Brian's, and their mother Peggy,

who played the part of the elderly prospector emerging from the plane with the nugget. They were all charged and all received jail time for. Oh, shit. Yeah. Shit, but what have they done? They got like a rock and just covered it in gold. I mean, so it looks heavier and-

Oh, yeah, I'm not sure. I think it was a legit gold, but rather than it- I'm guessing they just probably turned some bullions. I don't know. Can you melt bullions in to make them look like it's a more natural discovery? Yeah, I guess. You just have some sort of mould. Yeah, that's what I assumed. But yeah, for the listeners who don't know Alan Bond, which is probably nearly everybody,

but apart from people as old as me and from Australia. No, corporate crime, yes. Yeah, you're from, oh, that's right. Who's your favorite Bond? Yeah, that's right. He was part of my comedy festival show last year. Anyway, who's your favorite James Bond? But I would just say Bond. And I'd say, oh, really?

My favorite's probably Alan. Bit of fun. Bit of fun. So Alan Bond. Yeah, you shouldn't feel too bad for him because he was later sent to prison for committing the fraud himself, as I alluded to. He was a larger than life character in Australia. And I just to talk about him very briefly, a couple of my favourite quotes centred around him. One of them was after he led the syndicate that won the America's Cup with Australia 2 in 1983.

So right around this time when the then Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawke said, any boss who sacks anyone for not turning up today is a bum. And he pisses himself laughing. And the reporters are around him. Oh, Hawke. And he sculls a beer. Become a bit of a famous quote in Australia. And another one was after Bond.

So do you know about this? Bond bought Channel 9. He bought off Kerry Packer in a deal that saw him pay $1.05 billion in 1987. So much money. But then three years later, sell it back to Packer for $250 million. And Packer later remarked, you only get one Alan Bond in your lifetime and I've had mine. It's like just pure luck. So good. Wow. So yeah, Bond was like very rich, but obviously also a

little bit jupeable. Bit too rich. Yeah. Bit too rich. Yeah. I think it should be capped. I don't think anybody should have, I think a billion should be the cap. Yeah. I think it should be capped. I don't think anybody should have, I think a billion should be the cap. Yeah, I mean, and that- I'm being so generous. I mean, some people need a billion though. Yeah. But some people have multiple billion. You know, about 50% of our listeners are multi billionaires.

Multi billionaires. And they are going to be furious about this. I think they should give a little more to the Patreon then. Yeah, right in. Are you a billionaire? If you're a billionaire, can I have a million dollars, please? Oh, that's nothing to you. Can I have a million as well? Give each of us a million dollars. Prove that you're a real billionaire.

Yeah, prove it. Do some philanthropy and give us some, please. Please and thank you. Speaking of cash, let's go to a quick break. From Yorgos Lanthimos, the Academy Award nominated director of Poor Things and The Favourite, comes Kinds of Kindness, a darkly hilarious and unpredictable film that critics are calling mindbendingly brilliant, featuring an all-star cast led by Emma Stone, Jesse Plemons, and Willem Dafoe.

Kinds of Kindness is a wild ride that will leave audiences discussing the experience long after it's over. Don't miss Kinds of Kindness in select theaters June 28th. From fleet management to flexible truck rentals to technology solutions. At Enterprise Mobility, we help businesses find the right mobility solutions so they can find new opportunities Because if your business is on the road, we want to make sure it's on the road to success Enterprise mobility moving you moves the world

And we're back unless you're on the patreon on the On the bonus episode level or above you won't have even heard an ad then. That's right, you get no ads, it's ad free, baby, part of the service from us to you. God, I hope we had some really annoying ads just then so that this really tells people like, yeah, you know what, I have got a sign up. It's worth it. Plus I get bonus episodes and all of those are ad free as well. Over 200 bonus episodes to unlock instantly. Unfortunately, if it was us doing the ads, they were probably very entertaining.

Oh, my God. That's a problem. You do also miss out on our ads. And they're very good. And our plugs for upcoming shows. So you're like, oh, I didn't know you came through my city. Well, you're an ad freak. I know. What do you want from us? I'm sorry.

There's no perfect solution. That's very frustrating for us. If you're on the Patreon, you probably do know about it. Yeah, we will tell you in there. Well, you find out first and also get discounts on all the tickets. So really, it's win-win. Yeah. So yeah, it's good to finish the ads and then get back into the report.

Now we're having public buckets. Okay, fantastic. Okay, fantastic. So yeah, is it the Dream Goat, Dream Goat, Dream Goat Koopa? Dream Boat Ko Cooper level or above? I think is maybe the bonus episodes. That's correct. All right, let's get back into the story So yeah, this whole yellow rose of Texas or whatever was called that. Yes that whole separate investigation Was happening at the same time. Oh, that's the swindle though. Sort of overlapping with each other

I guess some jail sentences for those they did. Yep Yeah overlapping with each other. Wow. But they did get some jail sentences for those. They did, yeah. Yeah, and I imagine the fact that they've been found to be involved in all this sort of stuff is making the cops even more sure that they've probably got the right people. They did one gold swindle. Yeah. You do one gold swindle, you do them all. Everything that I investigate from here on out that is anything with gold, you. And maybe if you're pretty sure they did it anyway, like, why do you have to find evidence

when you can just... When you can just get the vibes. Right out of confession. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Come on. Come on, look at the facts. Look at them.

Wow, look at the feelings. Yeah, look at the feelings. Look at my feelings. Look at the vibes. Come on, touch my hand. Would I lie to you? Would I lie to you? Feel that?

Very steady hand, I believe. Very steady hand. Would I lie to you? Would I lie to you? Feel that? Very steady hand, I believe. So early the following year in March of 1983, the brothers were found guilty and sentenced for the mint job. The written confession and the fingerprint played a major role in the conviction. Ray was sentenced to 20 years in jail.

Whoa. For a long time. Peter 16 and Brian 12. These were huge sentences in a relatively victimless crime. And why? No one ever was threatened or anything. You know, sometimes you go, oh, in this heist, you've got to remember that these people were fearing for their lives. No one ever was.

No one's having any trauma except for the idiot who handed over the gold in exchange for two pieces of paper. He's going, oh. Yeah, but it's embarrassing rather than like- Few sleepless nights. Yeah. I wake up in sweats than like. Few sleepless nights. Yeah. I wake up in sweats seeing the gun point at my face. Oh shit, shit, shit, shit. And actually we're not taking into consideration the feelings of the gold bullion either.

Yeah, that's true. Maybe it was really hard on there. That's already been through a lot. It's been smelted down. Yeah. Reshaped into a form it was not familiar with. Yeah. It's already feeling, you know, some of its friends might be in another box somewhere and they never see them again.

Yeah. And maybe even part of them, you know, they could split up. Could be smelter with your ex. Oh, my god. Forever. Forever. Oh, no. You're like, God, I wish for another smelting.

Smelt me. Smelt me one more. Smelt him. Bloody smelter. He knows what he did. I think part of the reason was they were also charged with supposedly stealing these checks. So the checks were stolen from a business about a month or something earlier, and they burnt down the building, whoever stole them, and they were accused and found guilty of

doing that as well. Okay. So that also, I guess the arson and stuff all bumped up the time, but it was still seen as being quite a long stretch. It definitely covered much more heinous crimes on the show and they're like, and they got four and a half years. Yeah. And you're like, oh.

Scale seems off here. Yeah. Brian, who's the pilot, the middle man, he appealed his conviction and it was overturned after he'd served just eight months. But sadly, he died soon after. According to Mays, in a tragic and what some labelled as a suspicious twist of fate, Brian was killed in a plane crash in 1986. I don't know how it would have been suspicious, but apparently, you know, there's some conspiracy theory that he was taken out. Oh, taken out rather than he crashed on purpose.

Someone, a third party's come in and crashed his plane. That's what I, oh, that's what I was assuming. But I said cut the brakes in a plane. That was pretty funny. Yeah, actually, sorry, I didn't get that. Yeah, I'm like, yeah. Obviously, they do have brake lines, how they stop when they land otherwise. Yeah, but in the air, you don't need the brakes. No.

Quick, get the brakes. That is funny. Thank you. Flipping and flopping here. Jesus. Yeah, first, you're nitpicking. Then I'm going, that's great. Nah, that's good stuff.

That's really good. That's good stuff. His surviving brothers, Ray and Peter, the abalone fishermen, the divers, they appealed their case multiple times, but they had less luck than their brother. How does that work? And continue to do hard time. Yeah, it feels like, oh, I mean, I haven't got into the fine details of the case. So there must be some reasons, but it does seem strange.

They decided that Brian didn't do it, but the other two did. Yeah, the guy who was required for the case. So there's prob- there must be some reasons, but it does seem strange. They decided that Brian didn't do it, but the other two did. Yeah, the guy who was required for the plane. He probably wasn't involved. They probably, oh, it was a decoy. They probably just ran away from the airport. Swam away. They dived away. They dived away. Have they found the gold yet?

In this final story? No. Abalone. It's in the abalone. Wow. Sleeping with the fishes. There's always money of the story? No. Abalone. It's in the abalone. Wow. Sleeping with the fishes. There's always money in the abalone stand. What? So yeah, they tried quite a few times to appeal, but they were doing hard time and according to Richard

Carlton, who reported on this story over a few decades, he's like a, probably a hero of yours as an Australian journalist. Of course, absolutely, yes. He reported- Got a poster of yours, an Australian journalist. Of course, absolutely, yes. He, he reported- Got a poster of him on my wall. On 60 Minutes he said, they were in what was possibly Australia's toughest jail at the time, Fremantle.

And it was a tough prison. The brothers have spoken about the brutality of the place since, the regular brawls and whatnot. To me, most notably, Ray, I think it was, it was one of the brothers, I think it was Ray, said at one point he had his finger bitten off by another inmate and flushed down the toilet. What the?

What the fuck? I'm laughing out of shock. Yeah. That's full on. Richard Carlton's walking them through their old prison, which had been shut down by them, but it just, walking them through their old prison, which had been shut down by them. But it just looked like an old school, you know, I guess like Pentridge or something. You can't believe it was still operating the 80s.

But he's like, yeah, around here I was talking about how people are coming from behind and hitting them over the head with buckets and stuff. They also, their cell didn't have a toilet, just had a bucket. OK, well, the story's not adding up now. Flushed it down a bucket. Where'd the finger go? Just get it out of the bucket. Yeah, it's gross, but...

Well, there's also communal toilets, Dave. Jeez, their cells only had buckets. Bit off a finger. Sorry, I've got to run this to the communal toilet down the hall. Why, why are you assuming he was bitten off in the cell? You're making up a story and going, that doesn't add up. He just bited off his finger in the toilet. This doesn't add up to my story. This doesn't add up to the thing I assumed.

Interesting. You were the judge. Yeah, I've written my own movie. And this one, the judge is the hero. And handsome. And tall. Such a hot judge is the hero. And handsome. And tall. Such a hot judge. So beautiful.

According to Carlton, it was from here that they began their series of appeals, including four that got as far as the high court. But yeah, I see different amounts of appeals, but this is a quote from Carlton. In 83, 84, 86, 87, 89, and twice in 1990, the Mikkelbergs said the cops were lying, but the judges didn't believe him. You didn't, did you Dave? No. Right up until the year you were born. And then I started changing my tune.

Maybe? Yeah. I don't know. Did I? This is despite journalist Avon Lovell's book, The Mikkelberg Stitch that was written in 1985, which put forward the case for the brothers' innocence and citing corrupt police behaviour. According to the 60 Minutes report, which was shown in 2002, the police union docked every copper two dollars of pay a fund legal action to keep that book off the streets.

So like every cop in Perth or in Western Australia paid two bucks for the legal action, which is wild. And it worked to an extent, apparently. The book was banned in Western Australia, though it was still available elsewhere. So they were really trying to suppress this story. That- so that screams innocent to me. Yeah, yeah. You know? Put two dollars into prove your innocence by silencing all the critics.

But yeah, I mean, if you made the argument that this is all made up, this is all nonsense and hearsay and it's just making us- We'll look back. We're doing our- we're doing our best. We're upstanding members of the- And the community won't trust us because of this heresy. Imagine they're putting it. Yeah. But from our side, where we're like not fully trusting the Silver Fox.

Yeah. According to Mays, while Ray and Peter continue to languish in jail, the stolen gold remained missing. That is until 1989, when in a bombshell development, one of the missing gold bars was sent to television reporter Alison Fan with a note that read quote, the Meiklebergs are innocent and rotting in jail. Three months later, most of the rest of the missing bullion was delivered to the offices of Channel 7 in Perth

in pelletized form. What you'd appreciate more, Jess, just little. Just little like discs of it. Little discs of it. That actually quite nice. I do love how Channel 7 said, oh, only most of it was sent. There's a few bars missing.

They take a few scoops, because it was like, it was just like corn flakes almost. Oh, just a couple of, yeah, it does seem like most of it was there. A little bit lighter, not quite full. Yeah. Not quite full. Yeah, yeah, yeah, most of it was there. A little bit lighter, not quite full. Yeah. Not quite full.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This, no, I've always had this diamond engagement ring. I've always had this gold tooth. Yeah. Posting the news at night. It would be- This is my Porsche. They had remote back then, I'm sure.

That'd be such a wild way to steal gold is to just keep it on your purse at all times. In your butt. Because- I don't know how to keep it on your person at all times. In your butt. Because the golden tush. And so when all of that gold was returned in pelletised form, it also had a note suggesting that they had been framed. And the Mint confirmed it was indeed the missing gold. But the Mikkelberg's convictions over the swindle stood. I mean, an anonymous note saying they didn't do it, I guess doesn't prove anything.

Yes, true. And I guess the gold being returned also doesn't prove they didn't steal it. Funny, like how do they, if it's been made into little pellets, how do they know that it's that same gold? Yeah. Yeah. They have like a unique DNA. Yeah.

They've got to smelt it down to check its DNA. You smelt it. They look at it under a microscope. They're like, oh my God. Darren! There he is! It's my axe! Reunited and it feels so good.

And then they throw that bit of gold out. Trash. Darren, you dog. You know what you did. You're not worth anything. So, yeah. So the gold has been returned. Right. Most of it. Peter and Ray continued to appeal for years afterwards, and they were released on parole

after six and eight years, respectively, but continued to appeal, wanting to clear their names. Because they're like, our reputations, they did get out quite a lot earlier, but still didn't. Even still, those were pretty long stretches. Yeah. Especially now that the gold has been returned. So what do we think's happened before, you know, Matt actually tells us? Jess, do you think that someone else has done the crime and has felt so

guilty about it that they've returned what is now worth six million dollars worth of gold in the hopes to get these other guys off? Or they did do it and that they said to their family, hey, I think we might get out if you return the gold. Yeah. What do you reckon? Because I think it's moles. Oh, oh yeah.

Moles gold. As a journalist. Well, where do you normally find gold? moles. Oh, oh, yeah. Moles go as a journalist. Well, where do you normally find gold underground? Oh, my God. Where are the moles in the trees? Oh, my God. Well, that's just like an activity they're doing. But then they tend to usually live in the ground. I mean, right now they're in the trees having a great day. It's just a beautiful day. Every mole deserves a little time out in the sun.

They're doing a lovely team building ropes course. And they're actually having a really nice time. One of the moles is scared of heights, though, so that has been challenging. Haven't helped. Well, yeah, don't you call that, it's like conquering your fears, that sort of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A few trust falls. It was kind of confusing that I asked where they are, because I meant, you know, generally.

I did take that very literally. I do apologise. Because as I was walking, I saw the moles in the tree. Yeah. But you mean where do they live? Underground. Underground. Where the gold is. Perfect.

Or where the gold was. Well, as the judge, I think this adds up. And it's been pelletised. Pelletised. I hadn't heard that word in terms of gold before, or maybe in terms of anything. Pelletised. I like it. Yeah, so they're still trying to clear their names. And while the court system, headed by Dave Warnocki, seemed to remain confident of the brothers guilt, Australian journalists were not so sure.

Talking about Carlton. My people. Your, yeah, your hero. My peers, sorry. Rob Carlton. Yes. Fan. Fan. Fan. Fan. We also had the journalist and author Avon.

Which is a great name. Incredible name. So much so that I can't remember his surname. Lovell. Avon. I was going to say love. Lovell. What if it's like Avon Lovell? Oh, even better.

Avon Lovell. That's romantic as shit. Yeah. So yeah, they're all like going, there's someone sussed with this whole investigation. Under oath, the Silver Fox, Don Hancock, and his junior detective Lewandowski, both claimed that the confession was written word for word,

as the young Mikkelberg told us then. I mentioned that before. They said in multiple court cases under oath, that's what happened. He said the words, we wrote them down. And as Carlton reported, the police have sworn black and blue. There was no rewriting. Commander Hancock saw Peter Mikkelberg's initial confession at Belmont Police Station was written down word for word. It was the entire interview from beginning to end. But in 1992, Carlton's investigation led to a breakthrough when, quote, two English scientists proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the notes had been doctored.

This led to the Grey Fox Hancock amending his story 10 years later, saying, in fact, the notes were not word for word. Instead, quote, they're not verbatim. They're not a record of the conversation. They're notes for our own recollection at a later date. When Carden put this contradiction in, he's on record so many times. Oh, OK. Well, you're twisting my words now. Yeah, I never used the word verbatim. I'm like, come times. Oh, OK. Well, you're twisting my words now. Yeah, I never use the word for my own. I'm like, come on.

Come on, come on. How slow would he have had to talk for me to write that down? I can't keep up. When he said I didn't do it, I just I had to skip a few words. So I just I just write down, I did it. Do you understand? It saved me time. It saved me time. I can't write it all out. I did not do it. That takes ages to write down. So I just write, I did it.

Yeah. Full stop. Done. When I look back at it, out. I did not do it. That takes ages to write it. I did it. Yeah. Full stop. Done. When I look back at it, I know what I meant. Yeah. When I look back on it, some days later. Sometimes weeks. I go, filled in the gaps. Yeah. Got it. Locked in loaded. Bit of colour. You know?

I know. I wanted it to be interesting for the judge to read. So yeah. It's just a matter of, oh, come on. What? You're trying to stitch me up here. Yeah. So Carlton interviews Hancock on TV. You can see the footage. I watched the, I watched footage of it and this is a little bit, Carlton puts this to him. And this is the brief exchange.

Carlton, would you give us a logical explanation, please, for this? Hancock. No, I will not. That's not something to be bandied around in the media. That's for the proper forum at the proper time. Remembering he's already been in court saying a totally separate thing. Carlton, there are in excess of six million Australians watching you now.

How good were TV ratings in the 80s? It's a million. Six million. Or 92, yeah that's- We had half a channel. Yeah. There are in excess of six million Australians watching you now, and you are prepared to wear

the accusation that you've purged yourself without putting a counter-argument. Hancock, I've warned these sort of allegations for 10 years, perjury, bashings, you Hancock. I've warned these sort of allegations for 10 years. Perjury, bashings, you name it, they've alleged it. Who? Sorry. I don't think in this one we said anything about bashings. Arson, stealing my neighbour's car,

going on a crazy crime spree. Oh, hang on a second. Affairs, multiple affairs, impersonating a police officer. Googling answers to the crossword in the morning. Then coming down and saying, oh, I've had a thought about it. Maybe it's Prague. I think it could be Prague.

Hey, that fits. Yeah, so you brought up bashings. Nobody. I didn't say anything about that. I said your notes might not have been 100 percent correct. I didn't say anything about bashings. I said your notes might not have been 100% correct. I didn't say anything about bashing anyway. It'll perjury. If someone's really got you in a corner, you just throw in a few other things to distract them.

Yeah, yeah. That's what he's done there. Yeah. Despite his story changing, which obviously damaged a key part of their case against the brothers, the Chief Justice in 1998 threw out yet another appeal. And Rob Carlton was clearly like, what the heck?

Yeah. He's like, without a shadow of a doubt, this changes everything. Why haven't they? Why won't they walk this back or whatever? Yeah. And the guys are now free. Yeah. But they just really, really want to go. We can't have cops being seen to just be making up evidence. Yeah. That will that'll that'll harm people's respect in the system. But covering it up for a decade plus afterwards, I don't. And the courts being, you know, kind of almost complicit in it now.

Just going, no, that all seems fine. There was also this gives you a bit more insight into the Silver Fox as a person. The brothers secretly recorded him at their house, I guess, during the investigation. For some reason, it wasn't able to be played in court at the time, but it has come to light since. Right. You can't have secret recordings, but you can have confessions that no one ever wrote. Yeah. So at one point in this recording, Hancock says, Don't ever challenge me to do something because I'll fucking well do it, all right? You can rest assured about that.

And Peter the Younger says, You're mean, darling. Peter! You're mean! You're being a bit of a meanie. Don, come on! Aw, something mean! If- aw, you challenged me, I'll fucking do it, don't you worry about that! You're being really full on right now! Don, can you tone it down? What is happening?

You're scaring me. Be fair! Don, please! Give me a go. Can I have a go? That's so mean. I'm not surprised that they're the one, he's the one that they pulled over and sort of pressured. Yeah, yeah.

Hancock replied to that, I'm not a mean person, but I'll tell you what, I've done things in my life that you never did and harder things. What? Worse things. What do you mean? And if I've got to do them again, well, I'll do them again. I'll swim the English Channel again. I did it once and I'll do it again. It was hard, but it was rewarding.

OK? I trained for ages. Things you never did. You can't even swim backstroke. So strange. Very odd. Yeah. Ray goes, what, in the line of duty?

He's obviously trying fishing for him to own up to some stuff and Hancock goes, that's it. Yes, what I believe is my line of duty to get the job done. Oh. He's sort of like clearly just- He's a psycho. Yeah. He's mean. Yes. He's mean.

You're mean, Dom. And so far, I like reading that at the time when I put that in, I didn't realize how funny that is. Calling a cop by their first name feels illegal to me. Don, you're mean. When my bike got stolen and I had to email the police officer, she gave me her email and I had to email her some photos and I had to message my best friend who's a cop because I was like, what do I call her? Do I say like, hi constable?

She's like, her name. I was like, can I just write like, hello, Elise? She's like, yes. Really? You can call cops by their first names. Unless you're in trouble, then probably just like be respectful or something. But I wasn't in trouble. I was like, that feels illegal.

Dear officer. Yeah. Hello. Maybe it was more like, maybe you said it more like, you feels illegal. Dear Officer. Yeah, hello. Maybe it was more like, maybe he said it more like, you know, this would have been around the time of Muriel's wedding, you know, that classic line. You're terrible, Muriel. Maybe it's like, you're mean, Don. Don, you're mean. You're the worst.

You are mean. Don, you're terrible. Don, yes. you're the worst. Oh my god. You are mean. Don, you're terrible. Don, yes. Devil. I'm a bad, bad boy. Yeah, yeah. Okay, Don. You enjoyed that a little too much.

So yeah, they're out now, but they're still convicted for quite big crimes and that's following around, you know, it doesn't help with work and other such things. At that point, you're out of prison, which is obviously the first part of the goal is to get out of prison. So if you had done it and managed to get out of prison early, you'd go, I'm just going to take that as the win, try to get on with whatever kind of life I can have. Yeah. So the fact that they're still fighting it and trying to prove their innocence does indicate to, or they're stupid, or they're really dumb.

This is the only way. This guy Don caught us, he ruined our life. Yeah, we got to ruin him. Now we're going to ruin his life and reputation. Or, but I am more likely leading towards, they're just trying to clear their name because- And that's from me watching a lot of Criminal Minds. Well, you now have a criminal me watching a lot of criminal minds. Well you now have a criminal mind.

I have a criminal mind. So if you put yourself in your own criminal mind. Yes. You, okay, you're out but you're still convicted. I'm out of where? Out of jail. Okay. Free man or prison.

But I'm in the trees? You're missing a finger. You're on the ground. Rob do that. You're neither in the trees or in the ground or on it? I'm on the ground. I'm walking. Okay, you're walking along? You're walking here. Do you try and appeal again or do you let it go?

Appeal. OK, so you did or didn't do it? I said, so you didn't ask that. This is the key bit. Let's go back in. OK. Sorry, I'm missing a finger. All right.

I don't know what finger it is. I've decided it's the smallest one. And it's in a bucket. It might. It's all flushed in a bucket. I'm not getting it out of there. I'm not, Dave, I actually need less from you. You're actually very distracting. You actually bring me out of my criminal mind.

I need you to shut the fuck up. I will only listen to Matt. Yes, Matt. You're innocent. You've done a stretch of eight years for a crime you did not commit. Yeah, I'm walking. I'm on the ground. I'm not in the ground.

I'm not in the trees. I'm missing a finger. Part of the AT? You're out of prison now. I said less from you. Sorry. Now. Yes, I'm not in the ground I'm not in the trees I'm missing a finger you're out of prison now less from you now yes I'm innocent the opportunity comes up to appeal again yep do you appeal or do you just move on with your life move on okay what happened so if you're innocent you move on so I don't think we got any clarity here at all that worked that work yeah well I mean I'm not denying

that it works actually out of my criminal, but I still need less from you. I still need less from you. Something about it is very grating, very shrill your voice. What are you talking about? We're not done with the twists though. What? Really? Let me take you. No!...to the 1st of October... My God, did Don do it? ...in the year 2000. It's the night of the Sydney Olympics closing ceremony. I'm familiar. We all remember. Of course.

Where were you? Probably on my couch watching. Yes! Cheering on. You were on my couch. Yeah, yeah. That's where we first met. Members of the Kalgooly chapter of the Gypsy Joker Bikie gang, including Billy Garrison, Graham Slim Slater

and Sydney Reed, were drinking at the historic Aura Bander Inn, a pub about 70 k's north of Kal Gully. So quite remote, relatively remote outback Western Australia. I said Kal Gully and that's a bit funny. Kal Gully, sorry. Kal Gully. Kal Gully. Carl's Gullies. Oh, rotten Carl's Gullies. Sorry, Carl. Sorry aboutly, sorry. Calgouly. Calgouly. Carl's Gouly. Oh, run Carl's Gouly.

Sorry Carl. Sorry about that Carl. It was an accident. I've run over Carl's Gouly. They were just lying on the road, Carl. You shouldn't be sleeping right next to it. They're hanging out of your ball bag, out of your sleeping bag. My balls were hot.

It's made of air and matte. Does that ever happen? Oh, yeah. Just balls get hot? Yeah. Hot balls. Yeah, but they've got their own system. When they get hot, they drop lower.

Yeah, they're cool. They call themselves... Balls are so cool. Balls are the coolest. You wish you had them. They're a real beautiful bit of tech. Beautiful bit of kit now. You really like, it's figured it out, you know?

I think one of, if you ever want to prove to someone that God exists, and there's like, whatever creative design, what's the God design called? God design? Yeah, the belief that God designed humans and stuff. Like, creations? Creation. If you want to prove creation creationism show him a pair of balls yeah You think my chick came up with that? That's the work of an artist that's evolution come on That's that's will work of a god and probably they go

Anyway, so closing ceremony close. Yeah, yeah, not as a closing ceremony some bikers are watching There's a long long way away from the Olympics. Can we say? Yes. That's true. Other side of the country. Um, so these bikeys start getting a bit rowdy at the pub. Bikeys?

Yeah. And according. Bikeys drinking, get rowdy. Yeah. I mean, their gang's literally called the Gypsy Jokers. Come on. They're jokers having fun. Uh, so yeah, they, they're gangs literally called the Gypsy Jokers. Come on. They're jokers having fun. So, yeah, they're getting a bit wild.

And according to journalist Luke Elliott, witnesses that night said they used crude language, some of which was directed towards barmaid Alison Hancock. Alison Hancock? Oh, does that surname ring a bell? Yes. Well, a must. Herbie? Herbie Hancock's sister? Is that him? Does he do like sort of smooth jazz or something? I've no idea who Herbie is.

Does jazz. Is there any other card? So, yeah, amongst all the other goings on- Crude language. Bumhead. Oh, OK. Which, outback, you don't goings on. Crude language. Bumhead. Oh, which outback, you don't hear that much in the outback. No. Pub 70 Ks north of Gelgooly. Bumhead or crude language? Crude language.

They don't go that far. Yeah. But it sounds like they're being a bit rude to the barmaid there. The barmaid there, who just happens to have the surname Hancock. So amongst all the other goings on, the Silver Fox, Hancock, had become a much lauded head of the State Criminal Investigation Bureau. And some say that he, you know, he made it to the top in part after getting convictions in this case. He cracked this case. It was a big deal.

Right. Huge high profile. Wow. He eventually retired and he ended up running a pub. This very pub. 70 Ks outside of Kalgoorlie. Hancock saw that his daughter was copying stick from these rowdy bikies and he booted them from the pub. They went over to the racetrack, just in the same town,

and continued drinking around their campfire. Then according to Elliot, at about 7.45, a sniper's bullet rang out across the Aura Banda racetrack, striking the campfire where the bikeys were sitting. Minutes later, a second bullet thudded into Mr. Grierson's back, killing the 39-year-old bikey within seconds. What the fuck? Holy shit! This is quite the twist.

Yeah. The snipers shot stunned investigators. They believe the shooter used a high-powered rifle from a range of up to 300 meters in dark and difficult conditions. So you've got to be a pretty good shot. Yeah. So you'd have to have like training in how to use a gun. Yeah.

Like me, I've never, I've never held a gun. I probably couldn't do it. Yeah, it would be a real fluke to pop someone at 300 meters. What's up? What's down? All right, mate. Where's this going? At least I could hold two kilos.

Okay. Do they have any guns under two kilos? I need a little bit. You're not at the firing range. What else you got? What have we got in a petite pistol? They give you a kids one. What a pistol.

It is not known whether the sniper meant to hit Mr. Grierson or if the shots were a warning to get the bike is to leave the small settlement. Nobody has been charged over Mr. Grierson's murder and technically the case dubbed Operation Sandalwood remains with the police cold case unit. But Mr. Hancock was long regarded as the prime suspect. Well, yeah.

There had been tension. This is still from the article by Elliott. There had been tension between Mr. Hancock and Mr. Grierson inside the pub, as we mentioned, though, using crude language. Butt heads. Yeah. At a cronial- Sorry, I'm sorry. I'm actually sorry. Like, I was really anti this guy, but now I'm like, this bikey gang starts

harassing his daughter. He kicks him out and then absolutely fucks up the whole gang. Like, that is so badass. You really do have the mentality of a judge, judge, jury and executioner. Like, wow. I feel like I'm also terrified of this guy and I'm really happy he's not in a longer life. I feel like it's a huge overreaction.

Oh, if you're a bartender, people have said crook shit to you. I mean, just any kind of customer service role, people say crook shit. Yeah, but we don't know how crook it was. I'm really out of line and he's just gone, that's my daughter. I'm going to kill you. I mean just any kind of customer service role people say crook shit. Yeah but we don't know how crook it was. I'm in really out of line and he's just gone that's my daughter. I'm gonna kill you. Kick him out, sure. Scare him, okay. Which maybe you meant to do. Kill him. I feel like that is an overreaction. I think the truth lies somewhere in between here. As a daughter I think that's an overreaction. Shoot him but don't kill him. Yeah. I'm just kind of, I'm just like, that's, that's, I'm just saying that's a bad ass.

If they've been calling me a butt head, I'm shooting him in the butt. You know what I mean? This is a real, just an interesting little insert in a Dave's butt. I know. You're not impressed by that? Look, I'm, I like how badass that is.

Dave, Jess and I are journalists, and we're, you know, we're telling a story here. Yeah, we also don't know if you did it. You might have been the coincidental. You're more of a shock drop commentator. Yeah, you're Kyle. You're getting inside the story. Call it now, what have you shot off a sniper rifle? Still back to the article.

At a coronial inquest into the death, the head cook at the inn testify that she saw Mr. Hancock rev his car and leave the premises shortly after closing the doors and ejecting the bikeys. That is a bad boy. She also testified that Mr. Hancock's wife Elizabeth told her that he had gone to get his gun. So, I mean, a couple of things that go, okay. Mr. Hancock was also described as being uncooperative with officers investigating the murder, and

there were suggestions he might have tried to neutralise any gunshot residue from his hands by eating an orange, as citrus juice is widely believed to affect gunshot residue. Oh my gosh. That is a fact I didn't know before this show. You're wearing orange. I am. And you're always- you're always rubbing your hands with orange juice. Try and dust me down. He does drink a lot of orange juice.

I had some this morning. You have some every morning. How do you know? Because I know you. You do know me. What did I have this morning? You would have had avocado toast. I didn't.

What did you have? I had a smoothie. I was still drinking it when I got here, you fuckhead. Crude language. Oh Jess, please don't. Crude language gets you killed in Dave's mind. Yeah, you fuckhead. Crude language. Uh oh, Jess, please don't. Crude language gets you killed in Dave's mind. Yeah, that's right.

Oh no. An eye for an eye, a language for a shot. It would usually be a botox urine. So yeah, some are like, it seems like it was probably him. The sniper's gun was never found and Mr. Hancock did have an alibi, which was his wife, Mrs. Hancock did have an alibi, which was his wife, Mrs. Hancock, telling detectives their husband was home watching the Sydney

Olympics closing ceremony. Obviously, he revved his engine, went and got his gun, sat on the couch, watched the closing ceremony, watched midnight oil perform, beds are burning. And then did he get there like, all right, what what were the Romanian team wearing? Get him on that. Oh, got him. I don't know. It was too busy getting rid of Ev.

Oh, I've said too much. Isn't it interesting that he was like the the cops are investigating, like he was very uncooperative. It's like you're a detective. Yeah. But isn't it, I guess, you know, builders make they never bring their work home. That's right. Builders never build when they get home. That's what they say. It's like chefs don't want to cook at home.

Sometimes builders don't want to build. Let me tell you. I had a brother who was a builder, never built me anything. Really? Got home from work, he'd be like, don't make me build. There is a stereotype, though, like carpenters will have a lot of unfinished work around their home. That's all I'm saying. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Always finishes his work. Doesn't he live in a mobile home? Yes, he home. That's all I'm saying. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Always finishes his work. Doesn't he live in a mobile home?

Yes, he does. He lives on an island. A man is on an island. I keep telling him that. I mean, we technically live on an island as well, but he lives on a much smaller island. It is very nice. Depending on who you ask, but some people say Australia isn't an island because the content is very confusing.

I don't understand. But it's fucking both. In a trivia scenario, Dave, largest island in the world, do you accept Australia? No, I wouldn't. Really? No, because it's boring. Trivia, we're realizing what a mafrick you are. So then, so then what answer?

What is the answer? The Madagascar? Yes, is it? Look it up, Jess. Quick. Well, it's probably going to say Australia. Largest island in the world. New Guinea. Huh.

There you go. Is that right? Which it says island in Australia. And that's not... What? I mean, it's very close to us. Yes. Very close. It says New Guinea.

Well, someone this one also says area. This one also says Greenland. Yeah, I think I've seen Greenland before. Yeah, but it is confusing anyway, because like growing up at school, we were told Australia, it's an island, the island continent. Right. But anyway. So, yeah. So, Hancock, his wife, she's both said to the cook, and I imagine she wasn't stoked that the cook was giving up this info.

Yeah, he's just gone to get his gun. But then she's like, no, I was watching the Olympics closing ceremony with me. And then later she's like, it's absolutely ridiculous that these allegations have been made. You don't know the man he was, et cetera. He's a beautiful man. Beautiful man. So anyway, this is still from Elliot. The gun was never found. Blah, blah, blah. Hancock was never charged and his family consistently denied he had any involvement.

Within days of Mr. Grierson's murder, the Hancocks left Urabanda amid safety concerns. In the days and weeks that followed, their Urabanda properties were firebombed. So they were right to leave. Wow. There were rumours that the Bikies had had a 12 month deadline to avenge Mr. Grierson's death. And on September the 1st, 2001, 11 months after the murder, it happened. Mr. Hancock and his mate Lou Lewis were killed in a car bombing. Whoa. What? This is a crazy story.

Yeah. So, yeah, well, you think of us like these don't feel like classic Australian crimes. This is pretty right? This is 20 years ago. Yeah. And look, we've yeah. Okay. Then we, you know, there've been these popular series like Underbelly about. So I was going to say there's definitely like crime families and yeah.

Yeah. Underworld figures. Underworld stuff. And it's like when I moved in to the place I live now, the guy in the unit behind me said, don't worry if you're gunshots, the bike is only ever shoot at each other. Which is comforting. Yeah. Yeah. Very comforting. And it's like, but did you double check that you're not a bikey? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I Googled it. You got a DNA test. What is a bikey? Am I a bikey? I own a bike. Oh, different bike. Okay. But yeah, it's I think you're right.

Yeah, that's like there's underworld killings and stuff. But generally speaking, you're not walking around expecting your car to be exploded. But yeah, Lou Lewis, his mate, was his bookie as well. And I think all all upstanding cops have one of those. Yeah. Private off the books bookie. So that you don't do it yourself. Yeah.

But yeah, it does seem like he was an innocent bystander, which is brutal. One of the investigating cops said, a guy called Mr. Brown said, it was a scene of devastation. The explosion was such that the materials, debris and other items were strewn over dozens of houses to neighbouring streets. It was a huge explosion. One of the bikeys, Sydney Reed, soon confessed to his role in the bombing and also fingered his bikey mate, Graham Slim Slater. I'm really proud that I wasn't the first to giggle.

I was like, you know what? I'm going to power through this time. I'm not going to point it out, but you're behind me a little. I thought, I thought you both did very well when I early said that, um, uh, the two police officers say, Mikkelberg confessed when they wrote down word for word, as he gave it to them orally. I thought, I thought you did really well just letting that go. Oh, I really, it's really hard to concentrate.

And they've got steady penmanship. And they're doing word for word. I was very proud of you. Thank you. So, yeah. So we did not get through fingered. No. So Reed fingers Slater and then Slater was charged with the double murder, but was acquitted by a Supreme Court jury in 2003. as Slater and then Slater was charged with the double murder,

but was acquitted by a Supreme Court jury in 2003. Yeah. Anyway, what does this all have to do with the Perth Mint Swindle? Well, quite a lot. Cause with Don the Silver Fox Hancock out of the way, his partner Anthony Lewandowski was ready to come clean. What? What? Yes. Interestingly, he came clean to the journalist and author Avon Lovell. Lovell had been

working him to try to get the truth through all these years. He'd stuck with this story. He's like, wow, there's something dodgy going on here and I want to get to the bottom of it. And eventually they almost became friends strangely. Here is some of what Lewandowski said. It's all on camera, which you can also watch. Chunks of it were played on 60 minutes. Wow. So these are quotes from Lewandowski. When Don Hancock was alive, there was no chance of me going against his wishes.

A couple of times I wanted to come clean, but there was no way I could go against Don. He also said that Don implicitly said that he would kill Lewandowski's son if he ever told the truth. So Lewandowski was pretty messed up. He was clearly, like he'd done a lot of bad things, but he was, you know, fried by all this. Recalling the 1982 incident at Belmont station, Lewandowski states, I said to Don Hancock that I didn't believe we had enough evidence and he said to me, don't worry, it will get better. Like he's sort of like, we'll get some. And he continues, on that day Don Hancock came into the room and told me to make Peter strip naked.

Don then went up to Peter and gave him two or three quick punches in the solar plexus. The statements purportedly taken from Peter Mikkelberg on July 26th, 1982 were in fact not taken in Peter's presence that day, but were a fabrication made by Don Hancock and myself shortly after the 2nd of September, 1982. I gave evidence at the trial and numerous appeals. All that evidence in relation to the brothers so-called confessions was false." And he said, if I- They wrote it months later.

Yeah. And he said, if he told the truth at the time, they never would have been convicted. Lewandowski took his own life soon after this confession. Oh my god. Lovell, the journalist and author, was the one who found him. And in the end, because they had become friends, he was actually a pallbearer at the funeral. Oh, that's brutal. Despite his- Yeah, it's so tricky because it's like he's- he was a really dodgy cop. And, you know, this is just one story, you know, about, you know, ruining the lives of these three brothers. It's such a messy-

Yes, but he was also so scared. Yeah. And also, but in the end did the right thing eventually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, you know, he could have gone to his grave without coming clean, I suppose. Despite his confessions that they fabricated the evidence and also that they would never have been convicted if he told the truth, Lewandowski actually went to his grave still believing the Meiklebergs did it, saying, oh, there's no doubt in my mind whatsoever. I'm convinced that they were, they did it, and it's the end of the story.

So he, in his mind, they did it. We sort of fitted them up, but that's only because we didn't have the evidence to prove that they did what we believe they did. That I know that they did, yeah. Which, if you know that they did it, you probably would have evidence. Yeah. You know what I mean? They're like, he might have a strong suspicion. Your job isn't to make up evidence though.

Yeah, that's right. I know Dave, by the sounds of what Dave's been saying, he probably disagrees with this. No, that's right. Some people say beyond reasonable doubt, but I say, what is reasonable? You know what I mean? It's how I feel that day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like you want to get Dave after a good meal. Probably a morning session with Dave.

You get him in the afternoon. You're fucked. Oh, I'll just wrap this up. Guilty. Get out. Let's go. Next up, who else we got? Next up, a large pizza.

I want to get out of here before traffic gets bad. Something you might be wondering about is the fingerprint evidence. Yes. How's that? Don't tell me that was dodgy too. Sounds like it could well have been faked. According to the AAP, it would have been easy for the police to get hold of a mould of Ray's finger,

which is funny cause he ended up, he probably needed one of them. Is that how they got it? They, no, oh, imagine. No, they already had it before. Okay. But apparently one of his hobbies, one of Ray's hobbies was casting hands in brass, plastic, rubber and perspex.

He had all these- What? He had about 20 hands at his home when the police first arrived. No, Ray. And several were taken away for inspection. Ray, what are the chances, Ray? Isn't that so unlucky? What a, what a, yeah, unlucky hobby to have. I've got this really weird hobby where I write out confessions and then I sign my name to them. For various crimes. Various crimes. I did a murder. I did an accident. Signed. I don't put the dates in. I leave in, you know, I leave out like specific details and dates. It's just a fun thing I do. It's like a mad lib type thing. You can fill in all the things I did.

It's already signed. I did dot dot dot. You fill it in. Signed, Ray. Just for fun. It's a bit of fun. I'm not doing it professionally. No, but I just like to work on my penmanship and I find it helps me get out of my head.

It's like a creative writing exercise. Yeah, it's mindfulness. It's a mindfulness exercise actually. Ray, Ray, Ray. Well, I like to practice a bit of mindfulness. For me, it's writing out confessions to things I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's mindfulness. It's a mindfulness exercise actually. Ray, ray, ray. Well, I like to practice a bit of mindfulness. For me, it's writing out confessions to things I did. Yeah, unbelievable. Wow.

I'm like, how unlucky is that? Finally, from Mays. The brothers had the smoking gun evidence of the innocents they had long protested with Lewandowski's revelation, ultimately seeing their convictions overturned in 2004. They were? Yep.

Raymond and Peter Mikkelberg went on to be awarded hundreds of thousands of dollars for their wrongful convictions and won an apology from the police in 2007. Shit! It's amazing how many years longer he goes, well, OK. For 25 years now? But are we sorry about this? 25 years later and quite a few years after they've said it's been public that they- It's wrongful.

It's wrongful. Maybe they had a real backlog of apologies they had to give. So it's just the waiting time. So this Hancock guy did a lot of stuff. It's taken us ages to get to this one. It's honestly exhausting. So, yes, apparently they're not super happy with the amount of, like they were behind bars for quite a few years and, you know, lost those years in life and reputation and all the rest.

And they got about half a million bucks. And apparently they're like, that's not enough. That's not enough. We had six million in gold. Anyway, who was behind the Perth Mint Swindle remains a mystery to this day. It's a mystery episode. Wow. F***ing for the mystery. What do you think?

I mean, I have no idea. It's one of those ones where you're like, did them focusing on these three guys mean that they, the cops just missed another group who might've done it or, or, you know, you got it. I mean, it's hard to be sure of anything really. I don't think the investigation was good at any point. So how do you know, you got it. I mean, it's hard to be sure of anything, really. I don't think the investigation was good at any point. So how do you know anything? But obviously you can see that they might have done it.

I don't know, which must be brutal if they didn't. That's just ever forever hanging over their heads. Maybe they did. Yeah. Wow. But I would say even if they had, you know, they've been punished above and aboard, above and aboard? Above and beyond? Above and beyond.

Above and aboard. It's all above board. Yeah. So wild story. I couldn't believe. So many twists and turns. My God. I sort of I read that Hancock had a car bomb. I'm like, oh, and it was just in some articles, sort of a throwaway thought to be a revenge for a

biker thing. I'm like, there's got to be more to this. I was like, holy shit. There's a lot more. Yeah. Wow. There have been a couple of TV films made about it. One called The Perth Mint Swindle, I think. OK. I don't know how they got the name. I got creative with the title. But yeah, and you can sort of see why it's a

it's a wild story. So the oh, so the great gold swindle in 984. Brian Meckelberg, the helicopter pilot, was played by the Hey Dad guy. Oh. Who's since I think it convicted sex offender. Correct. Yep. And then in 2012, the great Mint Swindle, which has Grant Bowler as Ray Mikkelberg.

You know him? He's like the host of The Mole. The Mole Australia. Yes. Ah, there you go. I was like, I know that name. I think he was on Blue Healers and other such things. Yeah.

I just wanted to look at what Don Hancock looked like. So I've done a Google image search and there's an image like, yep, I can see what they call him, the Silver Fox or the silver. What do they call him? Silver wolf? The gray fox. The gray fox. But another image that comes up is a photo of the exploded car after the bomb. Yeah. There is not much left. No, it is. Short to just. Really.

Pfft. Blew it up. Shit. Wow. Terrifying. Yeah. What a story. What a story. According to his wife as well, she sort of said that he was, I think he knew that he was, you know, a revenge attack was coming. And apparently he said to her, at least if they take me down, the bikies will be, the bikers will get cleaned up a bit as well. And since then, I don't know if you remember the pretty full on bike laws over in WA. They were in response to a lot of this stuff. Oh, I don't remember the full on bike laws because I was a teenager and didn't give a shit about bike.

He's all the law back then. Back then. Now I care passionately about. Yeah, you're like, oh, come on. And I regret ever spending any time not thinking about bikeys. So I make up for it now by doing nothing but thinking about bikeys. That's why I don't remember so much of this podcast. I'm not listening. I'm thinking about bikeys.

This one, this is a good crossover. This is a good one. This one, I've retained some of it. Just quickly Googled,ikelaw's WA. A person can be jailed for up to 12 months and fined $12,000 for consorting contrary to a notice or displaying gang insignia in a public place, including gang tattoos and patches. Wow. So jailed up to 12 months for wearing a biker jacket.

That makes sense. Yeah. Makes sense. Reasonable. Okay. Well, does that bring us to everyone's favourite section of the show? I believe it does. Hang on, hang on.

I've got to do a bit of calculations here. So, you're first round. Okay. Carry the two. Yes! Oh my God. That was some quick math for me. That was quick math.

Thank you. Well, that brings us to everyone's favourite section of the show where we get to thank Yes. Oh my God. That was some quick math for me. That was quick math. Thank you. Well, that brings us to everyone's favorite section of the show where we get to thank some of our fantastic supporters. And if you want to be one of those supporters, go to patreon.com slash dogo and pod. You get all sorts of things you can get. Ad free episodes.

You get three, nearly four bonus episodes a month. Nearly what I mean that to say that we're in the process of getting a fourth new episode every month on the bonus. It's going to be a D&D show. Friggin excited. And we can't wait to be a dungeon and or a dragon. And you also get access to the Facebook group, the beautifulest place in the world. So beautiful. So beautiful. So kind. People genuinely love it in there. I've seen other ones. There's a few others of other podcasts around that purport to be beautiful places, but they've got nothing. They look like bullshit compared to our corner of the internet. Have you seen the curtains those guys are using? Yeah. Oh my god, that's so embarrassing.

And I would say I wouldn't use this kind of negativity inside there because it just would stick out like a sore thumb in there. It's all beautiful. It's all positive. Did you see that curtains? A bit lovely shade of mauve. Well, I wouldn't say anything, to be honest, because I don't think if you don't want to say anything nice, don't say anything at all. I just lie. But yeah, there's a bunch of other things you have to, you know, shout out and all these sort of things.

If you sign up on the Sydney Schomburg level, you have to be in the Fact Quote or Question section, which is what we're about to do. It actually has a jingle go somewhere like this. Fact, quote or question. Bing. He always remembers the bing. She always remembers the sing-ing. What made you laugh? Because it got me.

Widget, the world watcher. Bing, bing, bing, bing. So in this section, we get some of the people on the Sydney Schomburg level or above, and they get to give us a fact, a quote or a question or a paragraph suggestion or really whatever they like. And I read four of them out each week if we have that many good to go, which we do this week. So first up, I should also say they get to give themselves a title.

First up we've got Harrison and Rebecca Ellis. What a power couple they've proven to be. And their title is Mr. And Mrs. Mr. And Mrs. Okay. I think that's the first time someone's used it legitimately. I love it. I like it. We've been doing this.

This is like the 918th fact quarter question we've read out. First time someone's used it legit. And they've chosen to give us a review. Oh no. Uh oh. Writing Good Pod, five stars. Oh, no. Uh-oh. Writing good pod, five stars. Oh, thank God. It was not us then.

Yeah. What show is that? I'll give it a listen. Listen to a fantastic episode of My Favorite Murder last week. It was beautiful. A good, but good. Five stars. Five stars. Thank you so much, Mr.

and Mrs. Harrison Rebecca Ellis. Next one comes from Andriana Genaldi. I'm remembering that because in previous times, Andriana has written out the name phonetically, and I think I remember that. That's great. Which I nearly never do remember things. You don't remember shit. You gotta write it again and again.

You don't remember his name every week. Andriana has trusted me and hasn't even written out phonetically this time, so hopefully I've got that right. You did use the hand movement to get the emphasis. Yeah. Well, you know, go back to the old country, use your hands a bit more. Anyway, Andriana, aka ResidentDougaOne's stationery collector, has a question. Do we have much stationery to collect? Do you remember once I made Christmas pens and gave them as a gift to you? I do remember.

Did you make them or were they just like a free sample? No, the thing was, I got stuck it in by Vistaprint on one of those online printing things. The first year we printed Christmas cards when we were doing them by hand and there was only a few hundred. At the end it said- Only a few hundred. I know, it took so, so- Took so long. It said, um, you can get this image from the card on a pen for like, you know, a few dollars for each pen.

I was like, well, I'm going to get Christmas pens for us to write with. Yeah. And I don't know if I still have mine, but- I think mine's stuck there. I don't know if you got sucked in there, did you? You just bought a thing. It was an add-on though. They upsold him.

Yeah, it's an upsell. It's an upsell at the end. I also got the computer mouse pad. Business cards. A lot of opener. I've got a full doona with our face. Christmas, it says Merry Christmas. Full doona?

Full doona, yeah, King's Heart. I don't know why doona sounded funny that time. It's a funny word. It's a funny word. Doona, go on. So, Andriana has a word. Do not go on. So, Andriana has a question. Writing, Hi gang.

I'm an avid letter writer and love to keep in contact with friends and pen pals through letters. I love that. Do you like to write letters? And how do you feel when you get non-junk male mail? Thanks. Oh man, I feel very good. That nearly never happens.

Yeah, the only non-junk mail mail that I get is like bills. And I'm still kind of like, email me this. I can't that in the junk mail world. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. But it's personal. Like, it's sent to me. Yeah, the only personal I'll get birthday card, Christmas card from mum. Yeah. Mailed. Appreciate that, mum. But apart from that.

Because you don't you don't speak in person anymore, do you? We only. There's been quite a long rift between you two. Yeah, absolutely. Your pen pals only. Yeah. You call your dad pen pop. Pen pop? Pen pop. Oh, no, no, no. Dad and I speak every day on the phone, but it's just me and Mum.

Pen papa. Yeah, Christmas card, birthday card from Grandma. And then wedding invitations sometimes. Oh, they're lovely. And that's about it. Yeah. But I do say when mum's card comes. Even they're emailed often. I do appreciate when mum's card comes in because it is so novel.

Yeah. You see your name written out in hand, by hand. Yeah. But it's not, there's no bill. But no, I don't send letters because you've got to get stamps. My mum always just had stamps in her wallet like because you needed stamps all the time. I don't think I've ever bought stamps in my adult life. I had to buy some recently because they'd put everything up maybe 10 cents for a letter and

I had to send something into an insurance company. They wanted to sign a contract by hand, get it witness and then mail it in and I got to the post office and the guy's like, this isn't enough. So I had to, no, I think it had gone up by five cents. So I had to buy three five cent stamps to add on to the three letters. Oh my god. Yeah, very annoying. So annoying. Fifteen cents.

And did you have- did you have to put that on card? I did. I had to put fifteen cents on a card. That feels ridiculous. So, yeah, no, I don't send a lot of letters, but some of my texts to friends are basically letters. Yeah, I've noticed you've gotten into like voice messages for friends as well? Oh yeah, there's a particular group chat that's mostly videos and voice chats, voice memos. It's fun. It's like a little podcast. And when you don't get a junk voice message, how does that make you feel? Oh, it fills my heart with glee.

But it is upsetting when you're like, oh, I'm two minute voice memo. Fantastic. You say, what's Carla got to say this week? And then you listen to it and the first 30 seconds are an ad. Oh, yeah. And I'm like, oh bloody hell. My favourite brewery, I'm still so broken hearted about this. Favourite brewery in the world has decided to close down.

No. It's just like the craft brewery industry in Australia is in tough times coming out of COVID and all these tax bills that were they they were given like leeway over a few years. And now they're like, all right. Cop up. We want it in full now. Yeah. Is this actually did you really give them anything apart from just delaying the pain? But yeah, so it's such a bummer, but I ordered a heap of their beers and that arrived this week. Which breweries? Are they still going for final orders?

I think they'll be wrapped up by now, unfortunately. Such a shame. Really brutal. But yeah, they're the best. But beer delivery is fun. Deeds Brewery. So good. Deeds Brewery? Deeds Brewery. So good. Deeds Brewery? Deeds Brewery. Oh, right, right.

That's a real shame. Probably so many of my favourite all time beers. I reckon if I did like a top 50, they would have like 30 of them or something. Whoa, that's great. But yeah, beer delivery, that's a good one. I get a lot of packages, do a lot of online shopping. Not a lot of letters though.

But it's all junk. It's all junk. I buy so much junk I drop straight out. I had a pen pal for a little while. Nisane! Back when I was like 16 or something. I met this girl at a party and she actually from Perth and she was just over for a holiday and we took down each other's details and we sent these letters back and forth.

That's nice. It was really nice. Tasteful newt. Your children never mind. It was really nice. Tasteful nudes. That's how your children never mind. No, that weren't tasteful. Junk. Very accurately drawn. Junk. Junk. That was junk.

Yeah, yeah. Bit of fun. Bit of fun. Here's my junk. Um, but yeah, how about you, Jess? Who was your pen pal? Oh, it was somebody, I think it was through a magazine. You like, you wrote into them and they connected you with somebody.

You think that the person- Do you think the person was real? Yes, I do. Dear TV hits. That's a weird name. Dear Dolly Doctor. Yeah, right back and forth a couple of times. We do occasionally get mail here at Stupid Old Studios.

Well, I think we've had a few little things. Yeah. We had that one with the from Detroit pitching us to do an episode about, was it the Marx Brothers? It was. And we got a book. Book and some rubber duckies. Yeah. And some chocolate. And I got a Detroit Tigers t-shirt. I got a magnet.

It was very nice. I've got to say, I've put the Marx Brothers up for the vote, but it didn't quite get there, I'm afraid. You've done all that you can do. And I should say, I've worn the t-shirt quite a bit. Oh, that's great. Despite the baseball team not being very good. But anyway, um, Andriana, did you? I know I don't think.

Didn't answer their own question, Andriana. That's something just to note for the future. Ask a question, answer a question. I'm getting excited because I have multiple, multiple pen pals. Yeah, I think it's really nice. I like it. That's a lovely way to stay in touch with people. Nice little mementos to have.

That's lovely. Thank you so much, Andriana. Next one comes from Steven Edmonds, AKA provider of niche Melbourne architectural trivia. Ooh. Who moved on from his recipe era. Yeah. Oh yes, Steven gave us some great recipes.

Bit of baking. I baked a cake this week. Really, what kind? Just chocolate cake. Just felt like cake. That, yes. Even if some great recipes, a bit of baking. I baked a cake this week. Really? What kind? Just chocolate cake. Just felt like cake. That's awesome. Did you like it? I've eaten most of it. That's a little bit left at home. That's how it should work. Just a bit of cake. Yum. Could have brought it in, but I appreciate you didn't, because I'm trying to be good.

All right. So. It's my cake. Fuck you. Just as odd as some cookies. Stephen has a fact writing, On Collins Street in Melbourne are the remnants of five historic buildings from the late 19th century. The westernmost of these buildings is the Rialto. At four storeys, plus an attic, the building was restored and converted into a hotel in the 1980s. restored and converted into a hotel in the 1980s. Constructed in the early 1980s were a pair of interconnected towers,

which at the time was the tallest office building in the Southern Hemisphere. This building is Rialto Towers and takes its name from the adjacent Rialto building. Oh, man, I'm loving this, Stephen. I did not know that. This is so fantastic. I didn't know that either, to be honest. And I love the Rialto. You love the Rialto. And the original Rialto is so much smaller. Yeah. Four stories.

And an attic. And still, and the building was restored and converted. Oh, man, I got to go stay at this hotel. In the 1990s, buildings at the eastern end of Collins Street took the title of tallest building in Australia and the southern hemisphere. First 101 Collins Street and then 120 Collins Street. On the other side of the Yarra River, the Eureka Tower was completed in 2006, becoming the tallest building in Melbourne and the second tallest in Australia.

Dave, you'd know who was the tallest. What's the tallest now? In Australia. Because it was second tallest. Oh, it's the one in Queensland. Gold Coast 101, right? Yeah. Gold Coast 101 is what it's called? Yeah, I think that's Oh, it's the one in Queensland. Yeah. Is it Gold Coast 101? Yeah, I think that's right.

It's not a good name. For a time, it was also the tallest residential building in the world, Eureka, apparently. Near to the Eureka Tower is- Q1. Q1. Maybe, maybe the new one is 101, Melbourne. Oh, right. Straight at Q1. Anyway.

Sorry, please, please. Let Stephen finish his fact. Stephen may hit this. Near to the Eureka Tower is Australia 108, the current tallest building in Melbourne, and its first super tall skyscraper. I don't know if I would know. I guess I probably would have seen it. Completed in 2020, this building was at one point intended to have 108 floors, hence the

name, but was later reduced to 100. But the name did not change. Like that. This is the one. This is... Oh, yeah. That is very tall. So it's like it's a very tall building and it's got this little yellow star that kind of looks like, I don't know, like a rubber band or something that's been wrapped around the... Yeah, it's a funny...

I used to walk past that a lot and you look up at it and go, that is very tall. Like it's very high. It's very high. And it is, it's so funny that it's like probably half the height of the Burj Khalifa or whatever. Yeah. I mean, I'm absolutely guessing at that, but it, um, or maybe even, yeah. But anyway, I don't think it would even be half. It wouldn't even be half the, yeah.

Amazing. But it's funny that our tallest building in Melbourne, I wouldn't have been able to tell you what it was named. Until now. Thank you so much, Stephen. Appreciate that. So that is, what was it called? Australia 108. Yeah, and you can live there. It's amazing. So tall.

What? Yeah, that the yellow thing, is that meant to from the top? Does it look like a star or something? That's what I kind of assumed. Yes, it does. Yeah, that's the idea of it. Yeah. That's the idea of it. Yep. Um, okay. I'm going to quickly look at that from above. Uh, okay.

There's no pictures of it. This one from below sort of shows it though. That it's, yeah, it looks like a star. We love stars below sort of shows it though. Yeah, it looks like a star. We love stars. Pretty sick. Yeah, we're one of the few countries that can see him. The Commonwealth star on the flag of Australia was used as inspiration for the quote unquote Starburst.

Starburst, love that. A visitor has entered the studio. And no, dear listener, it is not Broden Kelly. What the heck do I hear about being called out on the pod? Here I am just living my life enjoying one of my favourite podcasts and then I get called out on the trash man episode. Did I do it? I love to give you shit.

Did I call you the joke doctor of Australian comedy or something? Welcome Marcel, what was the call out reminder? trash man episode. Did I do it? I love to give you shit. Do I call you the joke doctor of Australian comedy or something? Welcome Marcel. What was the call at? Remind us. Well that I, you know, there was a time where I told you guys, you know, you know, I've repented. This is the thing. I've repented for my sins in the early days. I've got three stories Marcel and I repeat them ad nauseauseam as if you were a real listener you'd know. I drop in and out yeah.

I like it for road trips and I'm not always on the road. No why would you be? You drop in and out in real life as well. I also like to go on in the bath. Yeah. Okay. Out loud or headphones? What are we talking?

I'm not gonna, I would ruin my headphones. Out loud. I want it to bounce off the bathroom'm not gonna, I would ruin my headphones. Out loud. I wanted to bounce off the bathroom walls. Wow, we've got really echoing. Matt spent a lot of time in the bath. It's good for the wet episode. Oh yeah, potting in the bath is great. Yeah, any sinkings is a really immersive experience.

Do you listen to the trash man in the bath? Yeah, exactly. My God. You are the trash man in the bath. Howdy. Anyway, who are we thanking? I'm so sorry about that, but yeah, if I didn't, I should say, OK, Doctor of Comedy, here we go. What rules have you?

So if you don't know listeners, Marcel will do videos on social media saying, hey, here are things that like he's Jerry Seinfeld or something. He tells you the rules of comedy. And every time I see one, I'm like, who is this man? Marcel, your good friend. Mainly because you're often calling out things I do and I'm like, who's what the fuck? Is he subtweeting me again? What the fuck? What the fuck?

You inspire me. All your behaviour. Comedy writers on Instagram. Often you can hear in the background me on stage while he's You all got stage wearing a hat here's what it tells the audience Marcel you maybe you can help out. Oh, well, this is a brag. The final of the Fat Quarter question. This comes from Adam Czapinski,

okay, move a shaker and reproduce. Oh my God. Oh my goodness. Well, this might be, yeah. This might be explained by the brag. Writing, hi everyone. I'm still on the lookout for a new stove. So don't worry about that.

That is a brag. Is that, I think, for the triptych club? Because Jess has won. It was getting repaired. I was hoping it was just for home renovation. Waiting for the- I know you really want to know. I am still looking for a stove.

Where do you guys stand on the gas versus hydro debate? Look, I'm a renter, so whatever is in the place. Yeah. That's kind of where I'm still looking for a stove. Where you guys stand on the gas versus hydro debate? Look, I'm a renter. So whatever is in the place. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at. How many say hydro? What sort of a stove are you using? Well, there's a whole controversy about, you know, renewable gases now. And like that MasterChef is being sponsored by this renewable gas company. They're trying to get more gas stoves in there while everyone else is gone.

We've got to get electricity. So this person looking for a stove, I'm saying. What are they going to get? They're going for an old school wood fire. Yeah. Which is fabulously good. Yeah, that's right. Inside. Beautiful. No ventilation.

Great for the household. Beautiful stuff. Anyway, sorry Matt. Anyway, it says, still on the lookout for us, so don't worry about that. However, this month I will use the platform to brag about something everyone else is also bragging about, as they should. I'm a little late to the party, but a couple of months ago, my wife gave birth to our first child, a baby girl named Gabriella Reese. Woo!

That's very exciting. Congratulations. Oh my God, how's this? She's the cutest baby ever. Holy fuck, what are the odds of that? That is amazing. Wow, that record was previously held by my baby, but it's been overtaken already?

Wow, that is exciting stuff. So with that in mind, I'm officially claiming her as Dugo On's cutest baby. Wow, Dugo. I mean, you've already conceded, but there it is. It's all there in black and white. I mean, they'd never lie. No.

On my screen, it's in blue and black. No biases here. No. But wow, that is amazing. Congratulations on, yeah, having a baby. That's lovely. And fucking at least one time. Lovely news.

Matt, making love. Oh, well, we don't know. It's making love when you have a baby. How do you know if it's a mistake when it's the first? Jess, Jess spent a lot of time explaining the rules of when it's a mistake and when it's a blessing and when it was on purpose. Yeah, I'm seven years younger than my brother, so I'm a blessing. But anybody 10 years younger than a sibling was a mistake.

And I stand by that. What about your brother? Yes. Could have been a mistake. Oh, he was. That's why they had me. Yeah, you were the blessing. Because, yeah, they were planning seven years later, but they just obviously. They were like, this kid, he's too practical, too logical, bit too smart. We need a little idiot around here. Don't you think that-

Straight man and a silly one. Yes. He's very funny. Your dad as well just didn't know the power of his sprog. Let's not talk about just his dad's sprog. Thank you Marcel. What? Thank you. It's a podcast, not a sprog cast. I thought this was everything on the table, Tom. It's not a sprog cast.

Are you kidding me? That's good stuff. Um, I think I was born four years after my middle brother. That's fine. And my parents divorced three years into my life. Do you think I was like a... Oh, last ditch baby. like a last ditch, baby? Yeah, last ditch, baby.

Save the marriage, baby. Save the marriage. They were really happy. And then had you. Yeah, before. I ruined that. I ruined that. You were the straw that broke the camel's back.

Can I write some of this down for my therapist's appointment later on? This is good stuff. Yeah, the dynamic was perfect. Until you came in. That's it. Are you a middle finger? Yeah, well, see, you should know in the comedy there's a thing called the rule of three and you really fucked that up.

Well, you need the rule of three though. Yeah. You know, the rule of three doesn't ruin the two. What was it? Mom, dad, other kid? Perfect. You come along, who the fuck is this? The audience is like, what's going on?

We've already got three. Yeah. I'm the third of three boys. Oh, right. So you said you're the middle. Okay. That's also on? We've already got three. Yeah. I'm the third of three boys. Oh, roughly. You said in the middle. Okay. That's also too many boys. Too many boys.

It's my personal hell. Well, this story is actually about three boys, three brothers. Oh, great. Jess. Should we restart? It's pretty good. It was a good story.

It was a good story. Jamie, pull up the tape. Oh, that's good stuff. Thank you so much for patiently waiting for me to listen to the pod. Now I'm up to date with all of your jokes. A lot of twists and turns. That's what I'm talking about. Now I know that joke that you made earlier. The next thing we do, Marcel, as you know, because you listen to us occasionally, is

that we... You can leave at any time, by the way. To a few of our other great Patreon supporters. Not asking you to, just letting you know that's an option. I'm committed. Great. That's interesting though. I would say I can't wait to do a video about this later. Podcasting rules. Podcast pet peeves.

Podcast pet peeves. Okay guys. All right. It's a very specific thing. You can only do comedy one way. Here's how you do it. I'm Marcel. Anyway, so I can't believe that was such a bitch. I love it. I love being talked about. That's why I'm here. So the only way to ensure the next thing we do is we shout out to none of our other fantastic supporters. Jess only comes up with a game based on the topic at hand.

Mm, that's true. Uh, what they steal. What they steal. It was a mint robbery, a heist. I know, I just listened to it. I love the heist episode. You know it was all about Gold Bullion. No, I'm saying that to Matt because he's already forgotten.

So how do we work this out? I thought we got pretty good with the system, how we each had a role to play. Maybe I'll read out the names. I'll say what they stole. Dave says where they stole it from. And what does Marcel do? Marcel sits and shuts the fuck up. I think Marcel maybe adds something interesting

to the thing that's been stolen. So Dave says what it is and you give it like an adjective or whatever. Yeah. Okay. See how you feel. Cool. Sorry. I'll say what they stole. Where it's from.

Use the way that it's from. And then Marcel really just sends it. Brings'll say where what they stole. Where it's from. Use the way that it's from. And then Marcel really just sends it and sends it. Brings it all together. All right. Here we go. From Meriden in Western Australia. Oh my god, appropriate.

It's Nathan Damon. DVDs. DVDs are stolen from the local library. Oh, yep. And they were secondhand copies of Rush Hour 2. Oh great. It was just Rush Hour 2. This time it's personal. Many copies of that one film.

It's just the first time we're thanking Nathan Damon here. No, look, I've messaged him, but he has now either got two accounts or there's another Nathan Damon in WA because they're from different cities. Oh, my gosh. Hello, Nathan Damon 2. He might have moved. He might have moved, but he's still got two current Patreon accounts. Yeah, interesting. So it could be separate people or it could be the rush hour 2 of Nathan Damon.

Yeah, or don't let him know that he's paying you double and he doesn't realise it. I did DM him, but at time of recording, he hasn't got back to me. Either way, look, just in case it's a different Nathan Damon, thank you, Nathan Damon 2. Thank you, Nathan Damon 2. Thank you Nathan Damon 2. Next up from Diamond Beach. I don't know how he'd feel about being called Nathan Damon 2. Okay, Nathan Damon as well. Nathan Damon Prime.

What about Nathan Damon 1? But Nathan Damon original is just without any number. What about Nathan Damon 108? Oh, that's good. Like that building we were just talking about. So from Diamond Beach in New South Wales, Australia, I'd love to thank Finn. Finn stole dolphins. Dolphins, wow.

And you're going to believe it, from the local library. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the dolphins were named after Echo the Dolphin from the Sega Mega Drive video game. There's multiple dolphins all named Echo. Very confusing. That's confusing. Next up, oh, address unknown. Can only assume from deep within the fortress of the moles. I'd love to thank Mel.

Just glaning off her email address without doxing her. It could be Melanie with initials maybe RV. Yeah. It did feel like you were about to spell out the rest of it. Thank goodness you did. Mel has stolen... Has stolen a tank. Like a, like an army tank. Like a military tank. Wow, uh, stolen from...

My dream to drive a tank. Oh, that'd be so fun. Stolen from a local primary school where it was used as a playground. And they thought, there's no way you can get this thing going, it doesn't even have the engine anymore. But Mel found a way. And it's full of the cast of Bread Pit's Fury, who's still in the tank hanging out. Wow. No one thought to look inside.

Thanks so much, Mel. Next up from Bayswater in Western Australia again. Oh, is she very Australian week this week? Very Western Australian one. Very Western Australian. I'd love to thank Jess. Is this Irish? Ciara Gifford? That's Ciara. Ciara Gifford. What did they steal? Ciara Gifford stole the Irish crown jewels.

Oh my gosh, the Irish crown jewels. And they were being exhibited at the Melbourne's Fed Square. They thought... At the local Fed Square. At the local. No one's going to come and steal these, you know? And these are still missing, aren't they? So that's why that Australia got a hold of them. Turned out for one day they got stolen again. Exhibited by Exhibit himself.

He was filming an episode of Pimp Your Ride Australia. Pimp your jewels. He's getting, these jewels are a bit drab. Let's pimp them up. We've got to install a few PlayStation 4s at the bottom of them. It is, these cars are now undrivable. Yeah, we replaced the wheels with fish tanks. Next up from Penrith, home of the Panther in New South Wales and Australia.

Please, thank you. Please and thank you to Rebecca Johnson. Please, thank you. Rebecca Johnson actually stole my heart. Oh my gosh. Where was that Dave? I actually had it. It was under my bed.

Oh. I'll store it for later. You son of a bitch. Yeah. Oh, I got it. I had, uh, you know. Did you have it in a box or anything? Or just loose under there?

It was loose. The rest of Jess was also there. I put a mattress down. It was a bunk bed. And Lisa Simpson was atop of it, screaming, it's the beating of the hideous heart. Yeah. I mean, I think I hear something. My heart is pretty hideous actually.

Next up, also from address unknown, can only assume once again, deep within the fortress of the moles, please and thank you shit, Peter Moffat, please. Please and thank you shit. Peter Moffat, please. Please and thank you shit. Peter Moffat stole a caravan. A caravan? Yeah. Really? Yeah, like one of those fancy ones that has like a full coin size bed, like a little dining table.

It's got a toilet and everything. Was that in your mind from earlier when we talked about Melanie RV? No, honestly, here's the thought process. Okay. I looked at your coffee cup RV? No, honestly, here's the thought process. I looked at your coffee cup and I said, like, coffee cup. And I thought, like, barista. And then I was like, you know how sometimes baristas are in little, little mini caravans?

Oh, that's beautiful. And then I said caravan. Getting a glimpse behind the curtain. Yeah, it's very literal. What a beautiful mind. And the caravan was stolen from the Melbourne car show. They thought they'd never get it out of Jeff's shed, but someone backed in there. They put it on the back of the trailer and everyone went, well, I imagine that they're

allowed to be doing that. That's fine. You got to move these things. And it was the same caravan from the film RV starring the late Robin Williams. Wow. And Jojo. That's why people were just taking photos of it as it left. Next up from Akron, Ohio, bloody hell, right in the heart of God's country there, entire country, it's Jessica parent or parent.

Jessica parent stole a very rare parakeet. Wow, and they stole that parakeet from the Melbourne car show. No one's expecting it to arrive or be stolen. And it was the same parakeet from the film, Pauly, with that talking bird that went on an adventure. Oh, you haven't thought about that in a long time. I only learnt recently that parakeet is a budgerigar. So it's a parakeet.

There you go. Fun fact. I have to go collect our lunch from downstairs. Oh, you're gonna step into the big shoes? No, I was gonna say you could stay and come up with the things they've stolen. Sure. I should have just sent you to get our lunch. I'm happy to be a lunch boy.

Remember getting a lunch order when you were a kid? Like, will you have the lunch monitor? Go down and put the lunch order in. A tub full of little brown paper bags. Yeah. With, you know, coins and stuff. A tub full of little brown paper bags is a great name for like a jazz band or something. Like Dave Lotticke in the tub of a brown paper bag.

A little pet peeve of mine on podcasts is people doing it. Oh, that'd be a great name for a ban joke. It's a bit hack. I think we're starting to move on. He has got you. And also will have our podcast by about 80% per week. Next, I'm ruling out Portmanteau. So that sounds a little bit like this.

Imagine if those two words were mushed together. Just two more to thank from Ottawa in Ontario, Canada. Please. Fucking hell. Thank you to Kelly Petit. She stole a range of rovers. Smarties that were all one particular colour. Oh, Smarties, of course, being the chocolate. I'm not sure if they have those in Canada,

but it's stolen from my lunch order. Oh my goodness. Get out of it! Get out of it, Kelly! Now I just have to have a half cheese roll, which is what I used to get because I did not eat very much in primary school. Half a cheese roll. Why don't you just get a full cheese roll and have the rest later?

Great. Smarties are sold primarily in Europe, Canada, South Africa, Australia and the Middle East. Beautiful. You know what you're doing, Kelly, when you stole my Smarties and left the half cheese roll for me to have. That's the worst bit. I was having a little bit of joy at the end and Kelly's just swooped in there. Why do I keep going to say please?

I think it's- Please thank- I think it's in the, I say please welcome in the triptych cup maybe. I think it makes sense to say please thank you because we're all here to thank you. OK, great. Please thank you. Because I appreciate that. And finally, from Pensacola, Florida, please thank Pedro. A collection of rubber stamps. A collection of rubber stamps stolen from the Smithsonian,

because they're not only any rubber stamps, they were once owned by... Um... Abraham Lincoln's dad! Whoa. Johnny Lincoln. Johnny Lincoln, the big dog himself. Yeah! Uh, who built the wooden cabin.

Johnny Lincoln in the tub of brown paper bags. Don't say it. Page Rose, a cool name, both words mean like, like a can be numbered to find things. All right. So thanks so much to Paige, Kelly, Jessica, Peter, Rebecca, Chiara, Mel, Finn and Nathan. Finally, the last thing we need to do is welcome some people into the Triptych Club. There's quite a few this week and... Oh, you guys are crushing it. Oh, shit.

Dave, are you ready to go? So, Jess, can you explain what the triptych club is? Absolutely. The triptych club is for people who have supported us on the shout out level or above for three consecutive years. Um, and we welcome them into the club once you're in, you cannot leave, but you don't need to, we've got everything you need to survive. Lock the gates.

Yeah, the gates are locked. You are going to have to quit your job and leave your family, but it is worth it because we have different bands performing every week. I'm behind the bar. I've got cocktails and food and anything you could possibly need. Matt lifts the velvet rope, welcomes you in. Jess, what is the drink you're doing this way? What is the Perth Mint Swindle?

It's that it's that, you know, that vodka that has like gold in it. Oh, yeah. I got that. And a bit of crme de menthe. Nah. From the film Superbad. I just have the gold vodka. No mint. Yeah, no, that's fair. And Dave, you've booked a band.

You're never going to believe this, Marcel. I booked these acts because they're international. Sometimes some of them have been dead for many years. So it takes a long time to confirm that they are going to come along. You're never going to believe it. Exhumed them. I have to exhume them. We have to get the paperwork signed off.

And this week, dropping by, it's the duo Mint Royale. Whoa. Mint Royale. We got Mint Royale. We got Mint Royale. Holy shit. Love that song, Blue Song. Love that song.

So they'll be playing that in a bunch of weeks. Love that song, Blue Song. Love that song, Blue Song. Love that song, Blue Song. Uh-oh. We've lost him now. He's in a loop. All right.

So I think that means I'm ready to go. Dave's going to hype him up once I read out the names. Dave sort of uses word wordplay, usually pretty weak. Watch your fucking language. It's not weak at all. Marcel and Jess are here to really just support Dave and what he's doing. Please hype him up. We've got you. We've got you. He works just for the new listeners.

He works off either the city name of the place or their name. What else have I got to work? Anytime you have to do it, you talk for four fucking hours for each person. So I popped down and let him do his thing. Thanks. I just appreciate Matt sharing the sass around a little bit, to be honest. Just read him between the lines. Matt's a bitch to everyone.

Just read him between, that's the character I played. Just read him between the lines. Jess, are's massive bitch to everyone. Just read him between, that's a character I play. Just read him between the lines. Jess, are you asking me to take over this week? Absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely not. All right, are we ready to go, Dave? You know I love what you do.

This is just a character play. I'm a heel. He's disgusting. I'm a heel. He breaks down and apologises after every episode to me. He's disgusting. And I say, okay, just don't do it again. He says, I promise.

I promise next time I'll have you back. You're my best friend. Last time after Marcel was on a Who Knew It, I think the do it again. He says, I promise. I promise next time I'll have you back. You're my best friend. Last time after Marcel was on a Who Knew It, I think the next day I'm like, was I, was that joke mean or did that come across wrong? And I said, Hey Marcel, great work yesterday. Yeah, it was, it was the nicest message that ever, I framed it, I framed it. I printed it out. That's lovely. Uh, all right.

Cause I, yeah, cause you are, read the names. You are very fun to make fun of Marcel. Anyway, so please welcome in from Torquay in Devon in Great Britain, Gareth Jones. I'm Jonesing for a Gareth. Woo! Nailed it. Thank you so much. That was a, that was a, hmm.

Yeah. Marcel. That was fun. All right. Marcel's thinking like me and he's talking like Jess. I get it. So. Very good So very good. Very good.

Next up from Glasgow in Great Britain, Scotland, Oregon, particularly Martin Coots. Glasgow on in Martin. Go on in Martin. Get in there. Hell. From address unknown, can only assume from deep within the fortress of the moles. Please welcome in Maddie. Uh, surname starts with a.

Maddie, you absolute baddie. Ooh, maddie, she a baddie. I believe young kids use that slang. You've ruined it immediately. If you just lent in- No footnotes. No footnotes. If you just lent in and said you're a baddie, you would have sounded so cool.

Yeah, but Matt, I need to explain to this girl, he's 50,000 years old. I'm like, baddie, I'm what? Who's the goodie? Uh, from Havid in Massachusetts. Oh my god. Oh! In the United States. Betty what who's the goody from habit in Massacharats? Michael Michael Michael Hill jewelers Alex hell there's only one here. I'll die on and that's Alex Hill Why what you didn't want to do any Harvard references, and you're gonna die on? Excuse me move on I said bad before and didn't say to do any Harvard references and you're gonna die on Salah's yes from a cagliari in the

Hello to the Tali's barachello That a time it's my blood Vitaly vital looks like Vital written down. I'm having a second bite of the charity and I want just things without. From Stone's Corner in Queensland. That's in Brisbane. I'm sure there's a gig there that I've done before. It's Amber Fielder.

Taking it to the field, it's Amber! Yeah! Fielder. From address unknown, can only assume from deep within the fortress of the moles. Please welcome in Carl Bernsen. Carl Bernsen. I'm Bernsen. I'm Bernsen for you, Carl.

I'm on fire. He's actually sweating right now. The cashmere jumper is very hot in here. Final three now from Trollgren here in Victoria, Australia. It's Levi Odgers. I was about to Levi because I thought I was about to leave. Yeah. Yeah, we got it.

I was about to leave because I thought this night sucks. The real Jess is coming out. I'm going to have to let the real me out. Dave, I'm loving what you're doing. It's fantastic. I was about to leave, would you believe? Would you believe? I was about to,, would you believe? I was about to, oh I believe I!

That's better! That's so much better! I believe I! From Croydon and maybe Surrey in Great Britain, please welcome in Mitch Barrett! Have a carrot Mitch Barrett! It's like you were waiting for that one. And finally from Sorrento in Florida in the United States, please welcome in, Jess please, bit of respect for Caleb Sellers.

Caleb Sellers, I'm buying baby! Oh that's good, it's done to land. Welcome into the clubs, make yourselves at home, please grab one of those gold vodkas, Caleb, Mitch, Levi, Carl, Amber, Vitaly, Alex, Matty, Mart and Gareth. Enjoy Mid-Row, love that blue song. I love that blue song. And I think that brings us into the episode. Anything we need to tell people before we go?

Aza, Marcel or Jess? Thanks for having me. If you want to hear what Matt was talking about, comedy writers group on Instagram and you can see my wisdom. If you also want to feel angry about your work, not angry, but if you just want to feel, you know, like, you know, you've got the inside word of how to be snooty about comedy, go to the king snoot himself,

plant to smooth. I like every post landing, sticking the landing. I did not there. We'll I like every post. I like every post. Landing, sticking the landing. I did not there. We'll fix that in post. That's a plan to snoot. Do you snoot? Hey, if you want to suggest a topic, you can. There's a link in the show notes. It's also on our website, which is dogoonpod.com where you can find him for about live shows

and merch and all sorts of fun stuff like our other podcasts that we do. And you can find us on socials at dogoonpod as well. Dave, boot this baby home. Hey, we'll be back next week with another episode, but until then, also, thank you so much for listening and goodbye! Bye! Mitch Barrett, have a carrot! From fleet management to flexible truck rentals to technology solutions, at Enterprise Mobility,

we help businesses find the right mobility solutions so they can find new opportunities. Because if your business is on the road, we want to make sure it's on the road to success. Enterprise Mobility, moving you moves the world.