Do Go On - 466 - The Ern Malley Mystery (with Wil Anderson)

Starting point is 00:00:00 Exciting news everyone, Do Go On is coming to Europe in November 2024. Shows are selling out Dave, is that true? Oh my gosh they are. These are the cities we're coming to. Berlin sold out. Edinburgh sold out. Belfast, Dublin, Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham, Bristol sold out. London, not sold out but it will sell out. And those ones in the middle you didn't say sold out too? That was, were you at the end of the list saying they were all sold out or some of those weren't sold out. Yeah, that was confusing Dave. I know those ones in the middle are not sold out, but a lot of them are very, very close. For example, I'm looking at you Leeds, about 10 tickets left. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 00:00:36 So if you and nine of your friends were hoping to come along, but you're just sort of dilly-dallying on booking the tickets. Oh my God, are you talking directly to me? Because yes, that is my situation. Book those tickets babe. Okay well unless anyone else is about to I'll do it on the next five. And Matt will be jumping on our website to do so at do go on pod.com we hope to see you there Europe Hello and welcome to another episode of Do Go On. My name is Dev Warnocky and as always I'm here with Matt Stewart. Hello Matt. Hey Dave, so good to be here, so good to be alive. I agree.

Starting point is 00:01:36 Not positing a question this week. No, no, you didn't hear the upward inflection at the end. How good is it to be alive? I might have missed that comment. And joining us this week to speak about how good it it to be alive? Also, the how helps it. Yeah. And joining us this week to speak about how good it is to be alive, it's Will Anderson. It is so good to be alive. I don't know why you asked me to say that before the podcast and to stress

Starting point is 00:01:55 that it was really good to be alive. We need that on tape. Yeah, he said that, which I thought was a weird way to start the podcast. But they said to me beforehand, if you could just read this statement in front of me, it is good to be alive. There's a little accent accent on it which I don't know if that's yeah yeah no you nailed it yeah that's it right well it's pretty important for us to have that that we've been missing that Jess energy for a while so that's why we've got you in thank you yeah to make up what aspect of the Jess energy do I bring to the table? Well, just your...

Starting point is 00:02:28 Je d'aviv. No, absolutely not. And I think you knew that you weren't. I think it was... Yeah, it didn't even take long before I knew as well. It was the very first syllable. I've gotten off to the wrong start here. Darn. But But yeah that sort of

Starting point is 00:02:47 stuff yeah and I think you bring that in spades. Thank you. Yeah basically calling out Matt's bullshit is what we need to do and you've already done it so thank you. Yeah you did that very comfortably actually. Well it's nice to be here I appreciate it very much. Oh it's so good to have you here and your is it true that you're getting the old band back together? As much as if you've ever had a band, Adam and Will. Yes, that is true. How exciting is that?

Starting point is 00:03:12 I mean, it genuinely is exciting. So 20 years ago, we stopped doing the Triple J Breakfast Show. And I'm the sentimental one in these relationships. So I'm one of those people who takes note of when anniversaries of things are like the passing of time and so I messaged Adam and I was it's rare that when you worked with somebody so closely and look this is an insight into your future just something for you it's rare that people who worked in these intense environments still talk to each

Starting point is 00:03:42 other 20 years after you stopped talking to each other and the fact that we still do I thought was worth noting and so you know what our final show was at Manning Bar at Sydney University I thought why don't we do a little show to I guess just commemorate the final show. Well as it turns, we started mentioning this to people and the more people we mentioned it to, the more people were interested in, well why don't you do some actual live shows? When we finished doing the radio, we did a little tour called The Last Time and so I thought that was that's pretty funny. That's great. We did it again, it's already pretty funny. So we have a new tour, it's called The First Time, in a long time.

Starting point is 00:04:25 And it's been incredible because we've just been putting it together. It's one of those things that is one of the more organic projects that I've ever been involved in, because it wasn't meant to be a tour, it wasn't meant to be a show. And then suddenly it's a thing that you didn't realize people were as interested in as they are. So we've had so many people who were involved in the show, call us to the show. We went on Dylan Lewis's radio show and literally had, there was this kid called Shannon from Cockatoo, who when we were doing the show was like 12, 13, 14, 15. And he used to review punk rock. So weekly you would have a segment and he'd tell us what it was like to be 12

Starting point is 00:05:05 and what punk rock song he liked. We talked to him the other day on Dylan Lewis's show. He's like in his mid thirties now. He's a grownup man, still loves punk rock, which I love, that was good. But so there's all this community that we used to have doing the show that it's suddenly, this is an excuse

Starting point is 00:05:23 for everybody to get back in touch. One of our old producers is currently working in Africa for the UN and so she's contacted us from the middle of Africa going, I think I can make it back for the Adalatra. Oh, that's amazing. So we always thought there was no archival evidence of our show because we're in that magic time where like the ABC wasn't really archiving things and it wasn't in this era where it's all you know on disc or digital yeah and so somebody has illegally recorded the last

Starting point is 00:05:55 three weeks of the show like songs and all so there is a link on the internet where you can listen to the last three weeks of the show and that is the only evidence that we ever did the show that it exists. So most of what we're putting together like is only just coming from our memories and our memories of the time are not that good. So if anybody else has any memories that they'd like to share we're happy to hear them. So what was the when was the run it was how long did you? 2000 to 2004 inclusive basically is where we were. Isn't that amazing, 4 years as well. 5 years in total so yeah. And I mean that's another reason why you're a good fill in for Jess. She probably did about 4 or 5 years on Triple J as well.

Starting point is 00:06:33 I spoke to Jess about this when she did my philosophy podcast which is I think Triple J is a place that you should pass through. It's I mean it's probably to this day, the most fun job I've ever had in my entire life. And when I left, there was definitely a part of me that was like, why would I leave the best fun? I even knew then that probably nothing else was ever gonna live up to the fun that you can have at a radio station like that. Particularly for me, as a person who was so passionate

Starting point is 00:07:02 about music. So for me, this was just the greatest experience of all time. I got to like do comedy all over the place, find these audiences, but also I got to go to the big day out. I mean I went to 35 big days out or something. You know? I mean I played music festivals. Like there was a music festival in Brisbane where one time I was on before the Lemonheads like it was me and then the Lemonheads on this stage on the same day. So Adam and I there used to be this band called Sonic Animation. They were like a big like sort of dance.

Starting point is 00:07:40 Something in Vals. What was the song? It was like a, it was like a, oh, what was it? Was it an Aussie band, right? Yeah, Aussie band. It was like a symphony of Vowels or something of Vowels or something. Oh, that might be true. So they had these two,

Starting point is 00:07:53 they had these two mascots called Robert Roelly and, oh, anyway. That's from that song, Robert Roelly rolls around the world. Yeah. So they had these two giant mascots who danced on stage with them. Oh yeah, I'm looking at the, yeah, I Rolls around the world. Yeah. So they had these two giant mascots who danced on stage with them. I'm looking at the, yeah, I remember them now, yes.

Starting point is 00:08:09 And so at the Perth big day out, in front of, it would have been 6,000 people, I reckon, on stage at the Perth big day out while Sonic Animation were playing in the rave tent there, Adam and I were those two characters on stage. Oh, that's awesome. Like for the entire set. So literally have been on stage like for an entire set of dance music at a music festival in a big. I mean, the things that we got to do were like,

Starting point is 00:08:38 I just love them. And it's only 20 years on that you fully appreciate it. Yeah. You're in the middle of it. It is the way you're living your life. It's only when you get to look back on it later that you realize, oh, that was a pretty cool time. At the time, it was just one of 35 big days. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:08:56 They look like, oh, wish I could do that again. Yeah. Well, I mean, we went on stage at the Sydney big day out to announce to Powderfinger that they had won the hottest 100. Like the first time Powderfinger ever played My Happiness was at our live OB we were doing at the breakfast show across from the under the Sydney Harbour Bridge across from the Opera House and Powderfinger played My Happiness for the first time as the Sun came up over

Starting point is 00:09:21 Sydney Harbour and I was at work. No other job has been as good as that. Yeah that's wild. You were a part of history probably so many times. Is it frustrating that it's not all recorded? Like there's no footage of that? People remember it so fondly and I think that the way they remember it is so much better than what it would be if they could listen back. think that the way they remember it is so much better than what it would be if they could listen back. Yeah, yeah. I just don't think there is a... where the last... it's the last of the myths, right? Because you know people's memories fade and they only remember the best bits. I think if they remembered all of it or if you are able to listen to all of it you'd be like, I don't really see what the show was. It lives better in

Starting point is 00:10:03 people's memories than in actuality I think. So we're hoping to destroy those memories by getting the old band back together. Live in front of their very eyes. Now I'm looking at the dates, you're already selling them out. Brisbane sold out, Sydney added extra shows. So you're playing Melbourne to Comedy Theatre, selling fast. Yeah, look I mean by the time people hear this, that one will be sold out. But I think we're going to add one more Melbourne show, so there may be tickets still available. That's awesome.

Starting point is 00:10:31 You're just playing old tracks, are you getting any bands to play or is this all sort of surprise? Well, it'll be a surprise because we don't know yet either. What we wanted to do is make sure that if people wanted to come and see more than one that they will see different things that we didn't want to condense the whole experience just down into one show that we then repeated. So instead what the idea would be is like we've got so many great stories about bands that we interviewed for example so at each show we might tell a couple of those band stories but you tell a couple of different band stories at the next show, a couple of different interview stories at the we might tell a couple of those band stories, but you tell a couple of different band stories

Starting point is 00:11:05 at the next show, a couple of different interview stories at the next show, a couple of different guest stories. So one of the things we want to do, because people are so, oh, what happened to this person, or what happened to this? So I think we'll have an aspect of, here are the people who were involved in the show, this is what they're up to now. And then in each place, try to pick one or two guests,

Starting point is 00:11:24 musical artists, whoever it might be. Missy Higgins. Who are associated with that part of the world. Yeah. I saw a clip you were, Missy Higgins was saying how much she loved your show but she... With Matt. She couldn't remember Adam Sand. Will and Matt couldn't remember Adam Sand. I mean certainly I'll be bringing that up if nothing else that will come up quite a lot. I'll probably play Missy Higgins to come on stage. But yeah that's the idea when we go to these places like it would be nice to go oh he's this artist or he's this guest who's from here that we'll have as part of the show that night. So yeah it's gonna be really fun I think. I'm pumped I'm gonna I'm gonna have to go to that extra Melbourne show. Well you can I mean you can just call me I'll get you to whatever show you want to go to. Oh great I'll come I'll come the whole tour. I'll come to all 35. See if I was heard it. I'll be in the back. I heard it.

Starting point is 00:12:25 Hey Dave, do you want to explain to Will how this show works? Will, what we do here on Do Go On is we take it in turns. Hang on. Will says he's listened a few times. I really think we should get Will to explain what the show is. It does blow my mind if you ever say you've listened to an episode or you do a retweet or something like, oh my God, Will Anderson listens to the show. But does Will Anderson really listen to the show?

Starting point is 00:12:47 From Will and Matt. So every week, one of the three of you, and today I am Jess for the purposes of this, but one of the three of you will go away and you will prepare a report on this, on a subject that you would then bring back to the group. And then the others will essentially derail that for comedic purposes. Yeah, that's basically how the show works. Maybe you have listened. Yeah, my name is probably the best that's ever been described.

Starting point is 00:13:13 That was succinct. Yeah, very succinct. We put a lot of superfluous, superfluous, can't even speak in that. Now we always start with the question, Will, and I'm doing the report this week. You guys don't know what I'm going to talk about. So to get us on a topic I'm gonna ask you a question the question is the following people are all examples of famous what oh and I'm gonna Yeah, okay

Starting point is 00:13:38 I'll read out this name. You gotta tell me what are they known for what are they known for and you can buzz in it Anytime we'll jump in any time time We've got Emily Dickinson T.s. Elliott poets poets is correct after two Well, I felt like it was gonna be deeper They are all I was gonna say Maya Angelou John Keats Sylvia Plath William Wardsworth No, they are all I was gonna say Maya Angelou John Keats Sylvia Plath William Worsworth Pablo Neruda Langston Hughes and William Shakespeare. They're all poets, but I didn't mention any Australian poets there But today I'm gonna tell you about one of Australia's most famous and enduring poets earn Mally Do you know earn Mally or the earn Mally story? No

Starting point is 00:14:20 Perfect Today hopefully you do that. I've been looking to it all week. The only reason I know T.S. Elliot is because Tism had a song called T.S. Elliot is a wanker or T.S. Yeah. And he was a poet. T.S. Elliot is a poet. That's how you do it.

Starting point is 00:14:37 But yeah, T.S. Elliot, I think he was like a he was wrote about wars or something. And Alex Ashley Dickinson. Emily Dickinson. Emily Dickinson, yeah. Ashley Dickinson is a listener of this show, I think. May also be a poet. May be a poet.

Starting point is 00:14:54 I hope so. Yeah, so it's really just like everything I know about sort of highfalutin stuff. It's a tism lyric. You got any William Wordsworth trivia? No, he's a poet. Yeah. I mean, what a name for- One of the ones that Dave just mentioned.

Starting point is 00:15:10 He was on the list! It's been a summer hearing of him. I mean, the name, that's a perfect name. That's a bit of, what do you call it? Nominative deterrent. He's famous for, I wandered lonely as a cloud. Oh, he's another sad- I said TSLE was a bit sad, but they're probably all a bit sad, I mean.

Starting point is 00:15:33 A happy poet. Yeah. Come on. Happy poets are like a comedian. Yeah, that's right. People say, stop lying to yourself. This isn't poetry. So this topic's been suggested by a few people and thank you to Paul Sharp from Hobart, Rachel

Starting point is 00:15:46 Johnson from Melbourne, Tom Badger Hill from Sheffield in England and Lena Rosenthal also in the UK in Brighton. Interesting, so Australian poets but known outside of Australia. Internationally. Hobart, England. Yeah. Overseas. And Mallee.

Starting point is 00:16:03 It's a great name. Yeah. Overseas. And Mallee. It's a great name. Yeah. So let me tell you about it. It all starts with a guy called Max Harris, born in April 1921 at Henley Beach in Adelaide. A very smart young man, he won a scholarship that allowed him to board at the Collegiate School of St. Peter in Adelaide. According to one of our favorite sources, the ADB, the Australian Dictionary of Biography, which is the clunkiest name, I love it so much, Max Harris had a rough time at school, feeling like an outcast and being regularly bullied until, recognizing that sporting achievements were highly valued, he proved himself as a first-rate footballer

Starting point is 00:16:40 and runner. I had that same realization, but then I didn't have the talent to become a footballer or a runner. I had that same realization but then I didn't have the talent to become a football or a runner. I mean it's not like we're keeping it a secret that that's like I mean our entire culture in Australia is built on the idea that the way not to be bullied is to be good at sport. He looked around and went hang on a second. I can see a Padman. So he was good at sport as well. In his classroom his English teacher John Padman introduced him to the modernist poets and writers including Dylan Thomas and Matt's favourite T.S. Eliot. Oh yeah. Yeah I know him. I've over told you how I know his name. I didn't even get the Tism song name right which is fine. Do you know T.S. Eliot?

Starting point is 00:17:23 Personally? Personally. Will obviously you interviewed a lot of people on your previous radio show back in the day. He was actually really great. Everything in rhyming couplets. The entire interview. He's always on. He's able to do it off the top of his head. I was like man do you ever stop rhyming? The Tism song is called TS Eliot Heanker. And I assume that's a reference to T.S. Elliott somehow, but I never

Starting point is 00:17:47 thought to look it up. I mean, I could. I mean, at the very first, the first half would be minimum. Yeah. The bit where it says T.S. Elliott. Yeah, that makes sense.

Starting point is 00:17:57 Anyway, derailing, you said for comedic effect, I forgot that bit. I'm just derailing at the moment. So what do you got on Max Harris? He started as a young kid, he's reading T.S.L. and he's getting inspired. He then started writing his own poetry

Starting point is 00:18:10 and some were published in the school magazine. Oh my God. He excelled academically and went on to win over 20 prizes at school. 20? Leave some for the rest of us. I think that's got to be all of them, right? Academic as well as sporty.

Starting point is 00:18:23 Yeah, 20 prizes. Couldn't believe it. I mean, that is that's too many prizes. Yeah. I know they all, everyone complains these days that kids get too many prizes in school. What era was this? Sorry, 19 of them were participating. It's wild 20. Yeah. Did you win awards at school? I mean, what sort of what does that mean? I don't know. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:18:46 That was just a real general question. I mean, I won like, I remember, you know, you'd get a weekly award, cause I guess, that's why I'm a soft millennial or whatever, cause they would give you like, I reckon they just rotated through everyone and get a certificate at the assembly. They do that at your school?

Starting point is 00:19:02 Oh right, yeah. It's like you're like student of the week or something. Yeah, but I never won any proper awards like you know I can't even I wouldn't even be able to tell you anything my school even gave out awards yeah I was the Victorian Lions youth of the year okay really that's a big one that's a proper one yeah they are the ones who sell What? That's right. And did you get it from his breath? Did you sell the most mints? It was non-mint related. What have you done to earn that?

Starting point is 00:19:30 So it's actually a nationwide competition, the Lions Youth of the Year, open to all students at school. And there is like a few components to it. One of them is public service. One is academia. So it's like they get your results and your sort of public service. There is an interview aspect, like almost like a job interview where they talk to you about like your life and aspirations and blah, blah, blah.

Starting point is 00:19:53 And then there is a series of public speaking events at the Lions Clubs where you do a prepared speech and then an improvised speech as part of this like competition. So that was the bit I was most familiar with. You got four marks in that and it just really brought you up. It's a real M&M eight mile attitude when it came to that aspect of the competition. Were you getting laughs? Yeah, I mean particularly because like think about this. Like this is the local Lions Club. It's just a collection of people who do community service. They're trying to like help out the next generation of kids.

Starting point is 00:20:25 They're sitting through like eight speeches about Nelson Mandela. Like, you know, it's basically it's just like a bunch of mini episodes of Do Go On. None of the fun comedic interruptions as someone tells you their report on whatever it is that they've come up with. So you're standing out in a big way. Yes. And so up until the the so I won the Victorian but didn't win the national I lost I lost the national final but yeah was the reigning Victorian Lions use of the year. Bloody hell. So yeah they go. They're kind of crowd like a

Starting point is 00:21:01 like a wedding speech you know they know, they want to laugh, unless you're offensive or something. They want to laugh. Well, they're tennis crowd, isn't that the, you know, the tennis players can get the biggest laughs from pretending to drop the ball. And so the prize, this is where it come in. Okay, so the prize was a six week trip around Australia.

Starting point is 00:21:25 Right, so all the state winners went on a like tour around Australia together. And in each state, the Lions Clubs arranged, you know, state wide sort of adventures for you. And the price you paid were that you would do like a speech at the Lions Club. So basically we were just on tour. Like it was essentially just road show. It was an early road show. So basically we were just on tour. Like it was essentially just road show. It was an early road show. And as we were just going.

Starting point is 00:21:47 And like, but the funny thing is, like, you know, I'm from like regional Victoria. So we're taking them to Malund, like some, you know, hay baling festival or whatever. And then when we went to Sydney, they took us to see Billy Joel. You know? Oh.

Starting point is 00:22:01 I felt like we'd really let down the side. It feels like yours is a little more accurate. Like what's Billy Joel say about Sydney? You know, I think really they should have been taking a seat. Warwick, Kappa or, you know, it's true. But Hay Bailing that is where we were. What town is from Hayfield is the name of the town. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:22:23 What do you do then? How do you do then? How do you get that name? Okay, so this is literally a bit that I did in my show this year, but it's true, which is the town of Hayfield. Now you would think that, you know, it's pretty obvious how it got its name. Yeah. Yeah, you would think so.

Starting point is 00:22:42 The quote from the early settler, and this is on the Wikipedia page like I've looked this up To make sure I'm not just like false memory this The quote that we were taught at primary school about how the town of Hayfield got its name is an early settler came through in The 1800s it was farmland and he described the area as a waving field of Corn And then no follow-up questions and expected us to get on with the rest of our lives, not understand any why we didn't live in Cornfield. Cornfield. Cornfield's kind of cool. Yeah. Cornfield's better, I think, than Hayfield. Hayfield sounds like nothing. Cornfield sounds like something. Yeah. Yes, and that

Starting point is 00:23:23 was also what I thought. So a young Max Harris is very much like a young Will Anderson, getting out there, winning all the prizes. Yeah. Sport as well. You were, were you running? I mean. This guy, I was trying to wonder if it's not one and the same.

Starting point is 00:23:39 Were you born in 1920s Adelaide? Yeah. And despite being a prefect and school captain, Max Harris's scholarship was only for three years and when it ran out, his family couldn't afford to keep him at the school, so he was forced to drop out. Okay. Which is so brutal. You've been like the best student the school has. You're the prefect, you're a school captain and they're like, what about the money?

Starting point is 00:24:02 You got to go. So he started working as a news copy boy by day and studying by night to get his school certificate. And despite these non-educationally conducive conditions, he won the Tennyson Medal for best English literature scholar in the state. So he's like studying at night and he's still better than all the other,

Starting point is 00:24:19 the private school kids. Tennyson's another one I've heard of, he's a poet, right? Yeah, an English poet. Gary, what's his first name? Johnny. Is it Alfred? Alfred, that sounds right.

Starting point is 00:24:29 They call him Lord Alfred Tennyson. They say Lord Tennyson. Yeah, Lord Tennyson, that's right. There's like a lot of streets in Melbourne named after Tennyson for some reason, but he's not Australian. No, I think he was like the English poet laureate. Right.

Starting point is 00:24:42 Yeah, I don't know what- At the time when people were naming stuff after him. There's an area near like St Kilda where every street is like there's Byron Street, Tennyson Street. It's like, yeah, I don't know what they were expecting it to be, but they had big ideas for the area. Yeah, trying to buy a bit of class there. Max Harris went on to study at the University of Adelaide and in his first year he published

Starting point is 00:25:06 poems in the university's literature journal called Phoenix. He published his first book of poetry, The Gift of Blood. So he's a real young achiever this guy. OK. Sounds like he knows about a lot of things, but gift giving maybe not.

Starting point is 00:25:21 Mate. Like blood. Blood. And how are you? A bag? How are you you? Is it a bag? Happy birthday. That's for you. I bled for you.

Starting point is 00:25:28 Such a good gift if you need it. Otherwise, real. Thank you. It 100% depends on whether you need blood. Yes, for sure. It's either the best gift or the worst gift. There's no in-between. Oh, thanks.

Starting point is 00:25:36 I'll go put this with all the others. Yeah, for sure. It's either the best gift or the worst gift. There's no in-between. Oh, thanks. I'll go put this with all the others. That's really weird. This is a quote again from the ADB to describe the guy. He worked as a cadet in the university library, was obsessed with modern literature and poetry, and was keen to share his knowledge with others. Yet, he was also ambitious and made enemies through his precociousness and cocky manner. So I get the feeling you either love him or hate him kind of guy.

Starting point is 00:26:11 Yeah, I get it. Yeah. He's super smart, super talented. Yeah, and he knows it. And he knows it. What's this guy's name again? Max Harris. And what's this episode about again? It's not about him yet. Earn Mallyally. Earn Mally. Who's another poet. Yeah. OK. But we've got to go, we've got to start with Harris to get to Mally. Got to set up the pins. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:26:30 Normally, I feel like we would have heard about the person we're talking about by now. I just feel like Max Harris is so impressive. The day's like we just need a little bit of that. We've got to talk about this guy. He's amazing. Like Max, it's short for Maximum Harris. Because he's the most Harris you could get in the world. There's actually, he's short for Maximum Harris. There's actually he's got a twin, Min Harris, who is underwhelming in his achievements.

Starting point is 00:26:55 Whereas, yeah, I think I relate more to Median Harris. So he made enemies and they were coming to play throughout his life. It is important. Great. Okay. Yes. In his first couple of years at uni, he had been a member of the Jindie Waraback club, which is an early literary movement devoted to emancipating an Australian identity in literature, trying to carve out our own sort of thing. The group, mostly poets, attempted to contribute to a uniquely Australian culture through the integration

Starting point is 00:27:25 of Indigenous Australian subjects, language and mythology, and also found inspiration in earlier Australian bush ballads. But the movement, that sounds all right, but the movement was made up exclusively of white people and has been criticised for being culturally insular, overtly nationalist and racist in appropriating Indigenous culture without consent or understanding. But they were kind of like, now this is Australia I guess, yeah. Let's write poetry about this stuff. It does feel like you're judging it a bit on today's standards.

Starting point is 00:27:54 It was probably super progressive at the time that they even talked about it like it would be worthy to take on board some indigenous culture. Yeah, I mean things have changed. Like these days, you know, three white guys wouldn't get in a room and try to... Oh, no. But basically the Jindii Warraback, they faced a lot of criticism at the time for being quite a nationalist group, and a lot of people didn't like them for that. That was what they were criticized for at the time. But these people thought Australian poetry should reflect an Australian identity and the outback was a central theme that they wrote

Starting point is 00:28:28 about. But others pushed for poetry to remain more traditional and European in influence. And then there's another group which Maggie Nolan who wrote for The Conversations, a great article on this whole story that I'll link to in the show notes, she speaks of another group saying, then there was the Marxist school of social realism, advocating leveraging Australia's convict history and Soviet notions of class struggle to build an authentic left-wing Australian-ness. We're drinking coffees right now made by a Marxist.

Starting point is 00:29:01 The barista, the first one went in there, she was talking about Marxism to another customer and Doug deeper she's more specifically a trotskyist. But anyway, just something to think about as you're sipping on that flat white You paid for that though, didn't you? I did. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that's some conflict Hang on a second Yeah, actually I'm gonna head back now. So then there's Max. He's in the middle of all this deciding what he wants to be. He tried being a member of the Jinju Warabak group, which are writing about the outback. He tried being a member of the Communist Party,

Starting point is 00:29:39 but at the end of the day he found he was more of a fan of the avant-garde and a proponent of modernist poetry and writing. And for a little background here, modernism was an artistic movement that shaped many different art forms in the early 20th century. And to zone in on it a bit more, I went to poetryfoundation.org. Oh yeah. Which gave me a bit of a background. They said, with the inventions of everything from the automobile to the airplane, the vacuum cleaner to the incandescent light bulb, people's lives were changing with

Starting point is 00:30:09 unprecedented speed. Many English language artists, including poets, thought a new approach was needed to capture and comment on this new era, requiring innovation in their own work. The result was called Modernism, the largest, most significant movement of the early 20th century. And it's, in terms of literary form and expression, it's often exemplified the quote that people associate it with. It's that the American poet Ezra Pound, whose maxim was, make it new. Ezra Pound's mentioned in the Tism Song. Oh really? What do they say about the old pound? Something about the modernist achievement is mentioned, but like to me it sounds like gibberish I really should look into what it means.

Starting point is 00:30:53 I'm like this is great, this is real catchy, but I'm sure they're also saying some... Yeah you're like somebody listening to We Didn't Start the Fire, but you've never read about history. Yeah, yeah. Just love this beat. Yeah, my god. They made up these names that rhyme so well. Joe DiMaggio? Yeah. How is that? That's fantastic. The way his mind works. Billy Joel. He's a quintessential Sydney guy. And how was it on the

Starting point is 00:31:16 Lions Club trip when we didn't start the fire? Was it fantastic? I mean I think here's the I mean what people of you know the modern generation will never appreciate is hearing We Didn't Start the Fire as the new material at the gig. Because that's, this was the era, you know, like he had all these classics, but this was, We Didn't Start the Fire was the one he was most passionate about at the time because it was off the album that he was touring. He was getting out from behind the piano, really working the crowd sort of thing. I mean, the banter that Billy Joel had in between those songs had the crowd in the

Starting point is 00:31:53 palm of his hand, you know? And then just, you know, like hearing we didn't start the fire when some of those events were actually, you know, closer to the happening. I mean, you, you younger people, you hear it as a historical document. You're like these names, these places. Yeah, they're all in black and white in my mind. Right, whereas I was living through it. I lived through not starting the fire.

Starting point is 00:32:16 Well, he was doing a concert every day and you wake up, read the headlines and chuck a new name in there. It's like the world was on fire, man. And the one person I knew who didn't start it was Billy John. Because he kept telling me. I thought he was protesting too much to be honest.

Starting point is 00:32:29 Oh no, they investigated. That sounds like one of those firefighters who lights their own fires. Wrote a whole song about it? Yeah, very sus. Come on Billy, you're coming with us. What modernist is a term that I think is short-sighted. Like, they're looking at themselves and their place in time and everything. They must have realised that that was going to be confusing to people in a hundred years.

Starting point is 00:32:56 A hundred years later, and then there's postmodernism from the 70s onwards, and now we're post-post that. Everything from now on is going to be postmodernism. Yeah. And where does post-Malone fit into that? Post-Maloneism? Yeah. Everything from now on is going to be postmodernism. Yeah. And where does post Malone fit into that? Post Maloneism. Yeah. I think that's what the kids are doing now. Yeah. Something to do with, yeah, face tats. Is that right? Am I talking about a guy?

Starting point is 00:33:17 I'm still cool. I'm still cool. So a bit more about modernism. It's hard to exactly define an art movement that had many subgroups and stylistic offshoots as it more transformed. But give it a crack. I will give it a shot. And also over different decades, different countries, they have their own sort of offshoots. But as a very general rule for modernist poetry, it's characterized by its free verse and subject

Starting point is 00:33:39 matter that often made a statement about society and realistically trying to convey everyday life. So it didn't rhyme. It didn't rhyme. They were like, I don't want to rhyme. Yeah, and they worked backwards from that, didn't they? I've written a really good one, doesn't rhyme. Doesn't rhyme. You want me to write that into the rules here?

Starting point is 00:33:54 That's on purpose. That's better than the ones that rhyme. Yeah, they're trying to. Yeah, whatever. Dumb, next you want like what, jokes at the end of your, like punchlines at the end of your jokes? No, thank you. Come on. Yeah, postmodernist anti-comedy is what I'm telling you that I'm doing.

Starting point is 00:34:12 It's better than comedy that makes you laugh. This is better poetry than poetry that rhymes. People hate it when words rhyme. It's easy to make an audience laugh. What I'm doing is art. And we've got to remember remember this is a time before Rhymezone.com existed so these people, that's why they didn't rhyme, which was difficult. Yeah. They, you know, they were still looking for a word that rhymed with orange. They didn't know what we know now. What do we know now? Rhymezone.com, the orange, it's blank. Oh. There's nothing in there. Yeah, right. But they assumed they could be. Yeah, they assumed they could be.

Starting point is 00:34:44 Yeah. But they avoided it anyway yeah But they've ordered it anyway So what is it been prominent fit? It's funny Australia was so behind in this it had been prominent for decades This is the 1940s in Australia, but it's been since the start of the century but it never at the time hadn't fully taken off in Australian literary circles and Because a lot of people did not like modernism white In England, they're like, oh you still doing that I think yeah, okay, that's my grandpa did that But everyone a lot of people here the critics did not like modernism as As a style one critic described it as utterly worthless

Starting point is 00:35:19 Wow, so there was this schism in the Australian poetry scene with multiple groups So there was this schism in the Australian poetry scene with multiple groups fighting to emerge as the victorious Australian poetry art form. And if you're thinking, surely there's room for all manner of artistic expression that can easily coexist. Well, you're wrong. Oh, I know. There can only be one. That is honestly what I was thinking. And everything else sucks. We, because of course, we know how it plays out. Ostentatious wins this battle. So the one type that it combines into Australia

Starting point is 00:36:04 So some more conservative poets took a special umbrage with the new modernist style taking shape. But our main man Max Harris knew what he liked and that was poetry and modernism and passion for these two subjects were the driving forces behind his decision in 1940 to found his own literary journal called Angry Penguins. Yes. That's great. It's a great title. That is a great title. This guy is an overachiever. Yeah he's like he's like not even 21 at this time. Ridiculous. Angry Penguins would be a great football team name. That's what Tazzy, I thought Tazzy was a bit dull, new team and they've gone with Devils. Why not go for something that hasn't been done before? Tasmanian angry penguins.

Starting point is 00:36:45 Now that you've heard it out loud, do you want to revisit what you just said? Yeah, it sounds like a euphemism for a hard one. I've got a rotten angry penguin right now. Do you want to visit Philip Islands tonight? Tasmanian angry penguins. Can you go like tap? Can't tap. Can't tap. The march of the Angry Penguins. The worst thing is he's got happy feet, but he's angry. Nah, you're right. Yeah, probably not the best. But I mean,

Starting point is 00:37:16 you know, it could be some... I think the Wombats is a great football team, mate. Yeah, that's wasted. Maybe better for rugby. Just nuggets. Yeah, nuggety. Picking up pace. So Angry Penguins, he co-founded the journal with fellow poet and student Donald D. B. Kerr. And according to earnmally.net, we're getting closer to Mally. Oh, yes. This is another great source.

Starting point is 00:37:38 Earnmally.net writes, their quest was a boldly rebellious one to liberate Australian literature and art, seeking, as Harris put it, to, quote, put a mythic sense of geographical and cultural identity back. End quote there. And then O'Neill continues, no less than a change in the Australian national self-perception. This is a poetry journal. It's a big goal. I'm loving it. It's a big goal. And the first issue was funded by Max's mum. Oh, that's. We're gonna change the world. Mum can I have 10 bucks? And so if you hadn't said just moments ago he was 21 I would have assumed he's

Starting point is 00:38:14 in his 40s or something by now. He's done so much. The amount of stuff he's done. But yeah I love that the mum backed. So this is Angry Penguins. Yeah Angry Penguins volume one backed by his mum. Yeah the opening page would have been to this is angry penguins. Yeah angry penguins Volume one backed by his mom. Yeah, the opening page would have been To this is from yes. Thank you mom. Thanks mom. I'll pay you back a letter from the benefactor Max was the co-editor and his own writing was included and the name angry penguins actually comes from his own poem called Mithridatum of despair his own poem called Mythrodatum of Despair. I reckon a better name for that poem would have been Angry Penguins.

Starting point is 00:38:53 Why don't you? So I'm going to give you. The Tasmanian Angry Dendems. Oh, no, that wasn't even close. Mythrodatum. Mythrodatum. Jeez. So I'm going to give you. The rhythm was similar. I'm going to give you a bit of Mithridatum of Despair here. Oh great.

Starting point is 00:39:07 Now, a Mithridatum, I had to look it up, it's a remedy used as an antidote for poisoning, sometimes seen as a mythical remedy. Max Harris's own poem goes, we know no Mithridatum of Despair as drunks, the angry penguins of the night, straddling the cobblestones of the square, tying a shoelace by fogged lamplight. Oh, that rhymes. Yeah, it was an ABAB structure there. And also the imagery of the drunken angry penguin.

Starting point is 00:39:36 I can see it. Yeah, I like it. This guy, you know what, give him a prize. Give him another prize. 21st prize, yeah. And they're wearing their suits or whatever. Tuxedos. Right, stumbling around like angry penguins.

Starting point is 00:39:49 This is good. This is good stuff. And Charles Jury, who was a poet and literary professor who assisted the general to get going, a bit of a sort of an influence that they looked to, he agreed, he thought the description of angry penguins suited the young poets on their revolutionary literary quest. Oh nice. It's like, you are the angry penguins. Yeah, and that's a jury decision, so that's... sorry, I'm so sorry.

Starting point is 00:40:14 Ha ha ha, Charles. Sorry, that's... Twelve angry penguins. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. We're getting somewhere here. Okay, well I'm gonna step in, I think we're... We've got something here. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

Starting point is 00:40:30 oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, for one of those moments where you say that and then it does not get edited out. It does not. Connor, please. Always one of my favourite things about listening to this show is your delusion about what gets edited out of the show.

Starting point is 00:40:51 I tell him about it. I listen back and I go, he didn't edit that out at all. The other times you're like, they probably edited that out. No, I just listened to it. 45% of the show is Matt begging to have it edited out. Please look after me. Otherwise, I'm not free to take these swings, you know? If I'm afraid that every mist stays in.

Starting point is 00:41:09 Yeah, he needs to think that it's going to go. Oh, yeah, no, no, that's right. OK, edit that out. No, don't. Charles Durie commented also, this there, the guy they look up to, he commented, there was a sense of genius about the place. OK.

Starting point is 00:41:24 So there's a bit of genius about the place. Okay. So there's a bit of buzz about this mag. And the first edition of Angry Penguins came out in February 1941. The Second World War was raging at this point and his co-editor, DB Kerr, was soon killed in action in New Guinea the year later in 1942. Sadly, he wasn't the last of Harris' contributors to go to war and never return home. So that's sort of the cultural context of the time. The first issue was a hit and caught the attention of Melbourne lawyer

Starting point is 00:41:51 John Reed, who went to Adelaide to meet the person behind the journal. He was quickly making a reputation for himself. John Reed was an arts patron who in the early 1930s with his wife, Sunday Reed, bought a house on the former dairy farm that they named Heidi. Now is they the couple who came up with the concept of a Sunday Reid? I love a Sunday Reid. And their neighbor, Sunday Drive, also had some livestock on them. You never combine the two.

Starting point is 00:42:24 That's very dangerous. So it's John and Sunday Reed. They're married and they, they founded the, the Heidi house that was soon to become the epicenter for the Heidi circle of artists, which we've talked about before, Matt, on the show, because for our artifacts, our little spin off web series and podcasts where we spoke about the history of art. Which no one watched. Yeah, no one watched, but it was so much fun making it.

Starting point is 00:42:49 It was fun, yeah. We went out to Heidi Will, which is now like a gallery in, what's it, technically Bulleen, but it was near Hardenburg, that's why it's called Heidi. And we spoke about Joy Hester. And I think they bought it for like, it was like a hundred bucks or something. Yeah. It sounded wild. And they were driving past and just went, oh, they'll go on a Sunday drive.

Starting point is 00:43:10 And they went. They put a bid on it. It was like farmlands. But now it's, you know, relatively in a city, Melbourne. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I forgot about that. That was cool.

Starting point is 00:43:23 Yeah. During lockdown we did, Was it during lockdown? Dave had this idea that we'd do a series where we'd go to bits of art... Yeah, galleries and installations. ... around Melbourne and record us telling the story of the art in front of the art and then putting it out so people could see the art while everyone was locked down here. And yeah, we went there, went to the Young and Jackson putting it out so people could see the art while everyone was locked down here. And yeah we went there went to the Young and Jackson did one about Chloe you know the Chloe one and went to NGV and...

Starting point is 00:43:53 Did you do the whatever the yellow perils called? We did vault yes yes we did go out to that yeah absolutely. And yeah what's the the street art guy? Oh and then there's a Keith Haring out in Collingwood. Big, big mural that we- Yeah, that was fun. I forgot we'd done that. That was great. And that is available still on YouTube? Yeah, on YouTube, yeah. Yeah, it did not catch the imagination of our audience, but-

Starting point is 00:44:16 Yet. Yet. Yeah, that's right. Because I was thinking it could be this whole thing, like, and then we do a series on architecture or whatever when we go, you know, sit in front of the opera house and talk about that history and we find other things. Yeah. And we talked to an expert each episode as well. Yeah, it was fun. Maybe it's just an idea that time wasn't right.

Starting point is 00:44:31 Yeah, that's right. Like it sits there for a while and then people are like, maybe through this episode, maybe through us talking about it right now, people are like, actually, you know what, that does sound like a pretty cool idea in the lockdown. I didn't enjoy it because I it was too I couldn't go to the scene. It was cruel. It was rubbing it in my face. But now I'm ready. Yeah I'm gonna go to the Yellow Peril with my phone and watch it. That's how I prefer to enjoy it. Get the full ambience. So yeah why don't you start with the the Joy Hester episode because she was one of the

Starting point is 00:45:05 artists part of this Heidi circle. But backtracking a little bit, in July 1938, the Reeds, that's John and Sunday, were active in the formation of the Contemporary Art Society. And over the years, many different artists took up residence at Heidi and they'd sort of feed them and buy their artwork and give them a space just to create stuff. And that included Joy Hester, I just spoke about her husband Albert Tucker, Danila Veseliev, Graysmith and the famous Sidney Nolan, who was one of Australia's most famous painters. He painted all of his most famous series on Ned Kelly in the living room at Heidi, which is cool.

Starting point is 00:45:45 That's cool. Or 37 or something of them. And it was all a bit Fleetwood Mac with many of the artists and patrons all sleeping with each other. John, Sunday and Sydney were a throuple for many years. Throuple. So good. So good.

Starting point is 00:45:58 Love to hear that word. Yeah, it's great. All the articles described as menage à trois, but throuple is so much better. Yeah. I just. They didn't even know they were a thr much better. Yeah, I just like they never know. They didn't know. Menagerie is very European. You know, I think throuples more of a modernist kind of.

Starting point is 00:46:13 Yeah, I mean, they would have appreciated the modernist take on their threesome until they had a spectacular falling out. And it's actually worth its own report. So maybe I'll leave it there and we can talk about it a bit later. The falling out and it's actually worth its own report so maybe I'll leave it there and we can talk about it a bit later. The falling out. Just that, just their whole, all of the goings on at Heidi is worth its own report. Surely in three artists it should be called a triptych. Yeah. It's a word Dave taught me. Almost taught you. Yeah, triptych. And then he stormed out and then they went back to being a diptych and it was a bit sad. But before that, in 1941, John Reed offered his support to young Max Harris and helped him

Starting point is 00:46:57 publish further editions of The Angry Penguins. Through Reed, Max actually met Sydney Nolan, which inspired him to link the two movements of writing and visual art, and from then on the journal also included visual art. And the second edition featured an early Sydney Nolan work, who himself was also only in his early 20s. So there's these young, creative, hip-hopped, happening people making stuff together. It sounds great. So it was really taking off for Max Harris, but again, not everyone was happy, including some of his fellow students at the University of Adelaide. Remembering this is peak World War II

Starting point is 00:47:29 and in 1941, a sense of nationalism was swirling and Umbridge was taken with the first issue of Angry Penguins and it's perceived anarchistic sentiments. Anarchistic sentiments. ErnieMalley.net describes the wild scenes. A campus meeting was called in which Harris and Angry Penguins were condemned and the students called for punishment by throwing Harris and three other anarchist students into the nearby River Torrens. Harris leapt onto a table and volunteered to throw himself into the river if the students would take up a collection for the war effort and the Red Cross.

Starting point is 00:48:06 The students chose the dunking. They're like, no, I'd rather throw you in. That's it. So they're anti-anarchists and they're going to show that by throwing people in a river. That's what order it looks like to me. Exactly. And there's a photo of the dunking that was published in the local newspapers. Wow.

Starting point is 00:48:22 OK, so. That's so, isn't it, feels sort of, I'm getting secondhand embarrassment of these like 20 year old students being like, stop being so anarchist-y. Oh, no. But you know when you're, you need everything, you're like, that's the only way, that's the right way. And there's all the different socialist alternative groups and they don't all agree. Mate, there's a bloody war on, it's not the time for your bloody poetry and like, they write books. There's a bloody war to fight.

Starting point is 00:48:48 Okay. But isn't that what we're fighting for? So I can write some nonsense and... Yeah, that's what a bloody coward would say. Get a gun and go kill somebody. Well, actually, my new poem is called, I'm a Coward. Please don't make me go. So in 1943, after his degree was finished, Max Harris took up John Reed's invitation to come and live at Heidi in Melbourne.

Starting point is 00:49:12 So he's looking at all those other artists that are all having a great time together. Together, the pair formed the publishing house, Reed and Harris, releasing numerous Australian books in addition to Angry Penguins. And intent on publicizing the work of emerging artists, they incorporated art images and articles on the artists in the journal, including many of the Heidi Circle artists I mentioned before. And now that's become its own acclaimed artistic movement. And historically, the whole movement is referred to as the Angry Penguins. Ah. So they're called the Angry Penguins artists Ah. So they're called like the Angry Penguins artists. Like Sydney Nolan is an Angry Penguin. I'm starting to feel like I should know some of this.

Starting point is 00:49:50 I feel like none of this is ringing bells at all. But how many poets do you know of? TS Eliot. Yeah, okay. Pee Wanker. Uh, Ezra Pound. Yeah, good one. Ezra Pound.

Starting point is 00:50:01 I think there's another Tism song maybe called Ezra Pound Axe King. Does that make it, does that mean anything? I'm assuming that's some sort of a play on some sort of- Is there an Axe brand that sounds like Ezra Pound? I don't know. And I regret bringing it up to be honest. These are things I could quietly Google. They're one of your favourite bands ever and you've never understood a single lyric.

Starting point is 00:50:22 Very few of them, but then they did a song about Shane Crawford and I'm like, okay. Okay, this is more my speed. Now this river called Phoenix, what are you talking about? Arizona, I suppose. The Angry Penguins journals also published and exposed their Australian readership to modernist writers from overseas. And it's so funny to me that people were pushing back against this because they published authors that are now universally acclaimed.

Starting point is 00:50:51 But when they were young and cool, people were like, what is this shit? Including Nobel laureate Gabriel Garcia Marquez, legendary Welsh poet Dylan Thomas and James Dickey. And they're like, who is this Dickey? 25 years later, he would be named the poet laureate of the United States. Wow. So you know, acclaimed and mainstream enough for that but at the time they're like what is this bullshit? Dylan Thomas is ringing a bell but that is Daisy Thomas's real name isn't it?

Starting point is 00:51:15 Oh no. No. What's his real name? Dale Thomas. Dale. Is Dylan Thomas another person or is that another? Dylan Thomas is a very famous poet. Yeah, Welsh poet, yeah yeah. I'm going why would I know that another? Dylan Thomas is a very famous poet. Yeah, Welsh poet. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:51:26 So I'm going, why would I know that name? Is it a football? From you being really famous. Oh, it's just him. His most famous poem is Do not go gentle into that good night. Yeah, I've heard that line at least. I think I've done it on a book cheat before actually.

Starting point is 00:51:43 Is that what you've heard? Yeah, probably, yeah. I learn everything've done it on a book cheat before actually. Is that what you've heard? I learn everything from either you or Tizm Dave. Who do you understand more? That's pretty similar to be honest. And again, not everyone was happy with these overseas artists and poets being published. Earnmally.net again the conservative literary world lived in simmering resentment of the political and aesthetic Passions emerging in angry penguins not to mention the exuberant exuberant intellectual instigations of young Max Harris

Starting point is 00:52:15 Just which they describe in quotes as the en font terrible. Oh So they were really anti Max Harris. He's like a painting a bull's-eye on himself He's seen as the poster boy that people want to take down a pig You'd assume now they'd be like it's so great that anyone's talking about poetry at all But back then they're like that's the wrong kind of poetry You did it until a poetry rock. Yeah, it's wrong. It should be a ABA rhyming the couplets Does that make sense? We could do an ABA, if you want to.

Starting point is 00:52:46 I mean, it's kind of more limerick style. Yeah, yeah. That's yeah. Bordy limericks. That's the real stuff. That's the happy poet. When do we get to the boy on the

Starting point is 00:52:58 burning bridge? And have they been in Nantucket recently? Australian poet and critic AD Hope has been described as an extreme opponent to Max Harris and the other Angry Penguins. Okay. It's so funny. I hate those Angry Penguins. And he described the journal as, quote, an arrogant and stupid literary magazine.

Starting point is 00:53:23 A.D. Hope was to become an acclaimed poet himself, but he was very old school. And I love this complimentary put down. He was referred to in an American journal as, quote, the 20th century's greatest 18th century poet. That's awesome. Bravo. Yeah, yeah, that's really good. Yeah, you're really good at that stuff.

Starting point is 00:53:42 They did 200. Yeah, yeah. That's kind of, that's, yeah, that's really good. Yeah, you're really good at that stuff they did two hundred years ago. That's kind of, it's, I mean it was, I think it was more of a compliment, but it kind of reminds me of Tim Rogers called even one of evens albums is the best Beatles album they never wrote or something like that. Yeah. And it's from the nineties.

Starting point is 00:54:03 So you can take it both ways. I think he meant it as a compliment, but because the Beatles are pretty handy band in the end. But. Yeah, nice to be compared to, but it also does sound a bit like, yeah, you ripped them off. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:54:16 But that is good. The 20th century's best 18th century. So on October 28th, 1943, Max Harris received a handwritten letter that would change his life. Addressed to the editor of Angry Penguins, it says, Dear Sir, I was going through my brother's things after his death. I found some poetry he had written.

Starting point is 00:54:37 I am no judge of it myself, but a friend who I showed it to thinks it's very good and told me it should be published. On his advice, I am sending you some of the poems for an opinion. It would be a kindness if you could let me know whether you think there is anything in them. I'm not a literary person myself and I feel I do not understand what he wrote but I feel that I ought to do something about them." Is he going to say he's not a literary person again? He's really laying it on things. He's protesting a lot about not being a literary person. I don't know what I'm talking about. Are these even words that I'm writing? I don't know. I can't recall. I don't know. Just like scribbles to me. It

Starting point is 00:55:14 says, Earn kept himself very much to himself and lived on his own of late and never said anything about writing poetry. He was very ill in the months before his death last July and it may have affected his outlook. I enclose a stamp for reply and oblige. Your sincerely, Ethel Mallee." And Harris read the two enclosed poems and he fell in love. The first poem was Dürer Innsbruck 1495. Now, Elbrecht Dürer was a German painter and Innsbruck is an Austrian city that he painted in 1495. There's a series of paintings. And I'm going to read you Dürer Innsbruck 1495 and you can tell me what you think of this poetry from Ernmally from

Starting point is 00:55:59 Ethel's now dead brother. I had often cowled in the slumbrous heavy air, closed my inanimate lids to find it real, as I knew it would be. The colourful spires and painted roofs, the high snows glimpsed at the back, all reversed in the quiet reflecting waters, not knowing then that Jura perceived it too. Now I find that once more I have shrunk to an interloper, robber of dead men's dreams. I had read in books that art is not easy, but no one warned that the mind repeats in its ignorance the vision of others. I am still the black swan of trespass on alien waters." Yeah, not a single rhyme in that.

Starting point is 00:56:43 No rhymes. I mean, it feels like, you know, artistic to me in that it's obsessed with the idea of art. Yeah, art, art about art. Art about art, the best kind of art, where artists talk about art and how hard art is. Particularly, I would say, in light of the fact that there was a world war taking place at the time, I think the one thing we have to ruminate on is how hard it is to actually make art. Yeah, how hard is it to make original art that people haven't been doing for 500 years already?

Starting point is 00:57:12 Yeah, so that's what I mostly got from that was your great will. That's what I got. Because I was like, you've dedicated your life to making art. And I feel reinforced by that position. That was a pat on the back for all the great artists. And it also makes me feel good about not going on any of those like entertain the troops, you know, things I didn't, you know, I just stayed at home and made art. If you thought about it.

Starting point is 00:57:34 Yeah, they should be entertaining you. Yeah, that's right. If anyone's a hero here. Come back here and entertain me. That's more of the... So that's one of the two poems. Max loved it and he wrote back to Ethel and excitedly inquired if there were any more poems And she sent back more as well as the short detailed biography of her brother, Ern

Starting point is 00:57:53 This is what it said Ernst Layla Mallee was born in Liverpool, England 14th of March 1918. His father died in 1920 and Mallee's mother migrated to Petersham in Sydney with her two children Ern and his older sister Ethel. After his mother's death in August 1933, Earn Malley left school to work as an auto mechanic. Shortly after his 17th birthday, he then moved to Melbourne where he lived alone and worked as an insurance salesman and later as a watch repairman. Diagnosed with Graves' disease, which is an autoimmune disease that affects the thyroid, Mallee refused treatment. He returned to Sydney, moving in with his sister in March 1943, where he became increasingly ill, as well as temperamental and difficult,

Starting point is 00:58:34 until his death at the age of 25 on the 23rd of July that same year. And the poems were found after his death and had no preface or description, but appeared to have been written over a five-year period. And in total, Ethel sent 17 poems, none of them longer than a page. And Max couldn't believe the poetry he was reading. The author appeared to be on par with the great Dylan Thomas, who was contemporary at the time. He played for Collingwood and Carlton. I think of the record.

Starting point is 00:59:02 What a guy. I think that's the one. And with great excitement, Max showed them to his literary friends who agreed of their brilliance. A completely unknown modernist poet of great importance had been discovered living in suburban Australia, sadly too late. It was an incredible story. Yeah, living in suburban Australia.

Starting point is 00:59:19 That's not quite right, is it? It is an incredible story. But it's not one that's uncommon when it comes to art. You know, Van Gogh's paintings are only appreciated in death. John Keats' poetry was received with indifference when he died at just 25 as well. Emily Dickinson that we spoke about earlier, only 10 of her 1800 poems were published while she lived.

Starting point is 00:59:37 And now she's considered one of the great American poets. But also, I guess you look back at something like this through such modern distrustful eyes. Like, you know, it's like every email or message I get from somebody going, hey, you've got like a fine or whatever. I'm like, that's probably like a scam. Yeah. Maybe occasionally it probably is the truth. Yes. And you're just like, I just reckon that's a scam. Like, when you say this, I'm like, prove you had a brother.

Starting point is 01:00:01 Yeah, prove it. Where is the evidence that this guy existed? Or is this just you trying to write some poems and get them in this magazine? Yes, and it's always a little bit more interesting if they're dead. Yeah, yeah. Mysterious brother, that's right. But he's totally in on the story,

Starting point is 01:00:17 because he felt like he's on the verge of breaking another artist finally ready to be appreciated posthumously. And this one's Australian. That's what he's fighting for, an Australian modernist. More than Liverpool. Yeah, that's true. Was his sister Ethel right? Yes, Ethel.

Starting point is 01:00:34 Is there any chance that she's writing him? Was it at a time where women weren't sort of respected in poetry or is that, could that be the motivation? I mean most of the names that I read that the Angry Penguins published were male names I'll say. Yeah. So it's possible that she's pretending. The Ethel is just pretending, right, writing. She's like, oh I discovered another one actually today.

Starting point is 01:00:55 Oh wow, what a change. It's like a real Tupac's mum situation where suddenly there's just like, oh yeah. Yeah, there's a weird Ethel that references today's news. Yeah. What's going on with Ray Gunn? What? He just had some powers, I guess. Yeah, really good writer, but also I think he could tell the future.

Starting point is 01:01:12 This guy's good. My brother, huh? I don't really get it though. I'm not a literary type myself. So Max Harris, he's like so excited by it. He's like, what a great find, what a discovery. So he shared the poems with his friends who showed similar appreciation. They read them and went, this is good stuff.

Starting point is 01:01:31 This is great. That's great. Because I would have, it's the kind of thing where I'm like, I couldn't tell you. Obviously I'm a layman, but it's amazing. I would have thought even in that world, some would be like, this is great. And some would be like, no, it's not. How can you tell? Yeah. But it's like almost unanimous. Definitely. That all the people that write this sort of stuff are like, this person's got it. So literary scholar Jeffrey Dutton described what he'd read as,

Starting point is 01:01:53 somebody who had the real voice. Whoa. High praise. That is high praise. Not everyone agrees, I should say. Author Stephen Orr, who's written a book about events at this time, described the poems to the ABC in 2021 as, very modernist, very bizarre, little bits of facts and bits of lists, strange images. It's all over the shop. So not everyone

Starting point is 01:02:14 likes it. But that's, you know, that's modernism. Not everyone gets it. That is funny he said it's modernism. He's like, it's very modernism. It's like fantastic modernism poetry. It's no good. Not for me. Yeah, I mean I you're saying it's oh, yeah It's not for you fair enough, but it's like a music journalist going this new Post Malone album

Starting point is 01:02:40 Good solid start. Actually he's like speaking real fast or slow or whatever his style is. Sometimes fast and slow, then he speeds it up again, maybe. Really, there's not as much double kick drums that I like. So I don't know if it's any good. You got, like, I think it's, yeah, it's weird criticism I would have thought from that guy. 2021, he should know better. Yeah, it's true What was his name? His name is Stephen or Stephen or if you're listening

Starting point is 01:03:11 Take it. Take it yourself, mate. All the names are red so far. He's the only one that could still be listening So Max Harris, he loves the POMS. That's exactly what he's looking for. It's right up his alley. John Reed, his Angry Penguins co-publisher, was also a big fan. So the two people you need to impress are impressed. There was some speculation that maybe the backstory was too fanciful, too good to be true, and that maybe- A few people like me who are a bit suss on this whole story. It's funny because how fanciful is it? My brother died, he wrote some poems.

Starting point is 01:03:43 A bit far-fetched. A bit far-fetched, eh? Like it feels it's believable. It's very convenient. This guy who's this genius poet has only been discovered once he's dead and we found these letters. It's a very romantic way of like,

Starting point is 01:03:57 oh, we found, it's a good backstory. Yeah, yeah. It gets people hooked in, right? Totally does. And they thought maybe it's like a, like you're thinking like a pseudonym, maybe someone else has just made up this story or maybe it's just completely made up. They weren't sure, but John Reed replied to Harris that quote, since the poems were good,

Starting point is 01:04:14 they should go ahead and publish them. Damn the risk. Yep. Put them out there. They're good. What is the risk? Yeah. Yeah, I guess that it's a pseudonym and they well whatever they're good pseudonym that's pretty common though pseudonyms right in in Which I study literature university. I know somebody's Like pseudonym it's become very clear on this episode as well that you remember quite a lot I did I mine it in it. I just remember dozing off in the lecture theater as I did, I minored in it, I just remember dozing off in the lecture theatre as our- Some of the best sleeps of my life. Like our lecture, one of the lecturers had the best voice, he was this sort of slow talking Englishman and I just remember, I don't even remember ever reading it, but he talked about something called

Starting point is 01:04:56 Wide Sargasso Sea and he- Oh yeah, I've done that on a book chair, yeah. And he talked about it in relation to something else, maybe a tempest or something, or Jane Eyre. Jane Eyre, yeah, it's like a, basically it's fan fiction. And he talked about it in relation to something else, maybe Tempus or something? Jane Eyre, yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like a, basically it's fan fiction. And I just was like, I just remembered, just like, oh man, I don't know what you're talking about, but I am drifting off and it's so relaxing.

Starting point is 01:05:16 I wish I recorded it just for, to listen to it night time. Yeah, that's what you try to capture now when you listen to it on your audible app, Matt. He's slow, he's, he listens to books. What do you put on 0.75 speed or something? Yeah, 0.75 speed. Listen to a slightly interesting but not too interesting non-fiction book and it, I don't make it 20 minutes. Whereas I used to listen to podcasts. Like I used to would listen to two guys, one cup or something, normal speed. I get to the end of the episode, I'd be like, I'm more excited than ever.

Starting point is 01:05:46 I've just heard about a player's bio. His favourite movie was Shawshank Redemption. I didn't see it coming, my heart's racing. So now, just to slow it down, I'm listening to a book about the history of the Marvel comic book thing. And he's just talking about the office and guys in the office. I don't know. I hardly get through, you know, 10 minutes now and I'm drifting off. Hot tip. How's your hot tip? Unless people listen to this podcast at bedtime, then keep doing that. We'll take wherever we get the downloads.

Starting point is 01:06:16 Yeah, that's how we'll take the downloads. Just be if you need to, just play it on an app that you're not listening to, you know, in another room. So they decided to dedicate the next edition of The Angry Penguins to earn Mally, Australia's previously unknown poet. Thirty six pages of the autumn 1944 issue were dedicated to him. Sydney, Sydney Nolan painted the cover and Max Harris wrote the edition's introduction writing of Mally's short life and untimely death. He wrote, I am firmly convinced that's short life and untimely death.

Starting point is 01:06:45 He wrote, I am firmly convinced that this unknown mechanic and insurance peddler is one of the most outstanding poets that we have produced here. That is, yeah, I forget that part of it. That's making it particularly romantic, isn't it? He's toiling away under cars. He's a working man. A working man. Just quietly a genius.

Starting point is 01:07:02 He's also a genius. Yeah, you're right. And it's high praise. Some of the, you know, the most outstanding poet we've ever produced. Copies were dispatched to London's publisher Faber and Faber and to Gotham Book Mart in New York City. And the Angry Penguins unveiled Ern Mellie to the world. Yeah. Even if he, like we are doubting it, there's probably a twist coming.

Starting point is 01:07:22 But I don't really understand what the problem is if it's like Oh turns out it was his sister or it was it was another poet just well It feels like it could be an invention of the angry penguins to write the day as a literary Movement could have got together to make this sort of like like art project. That's beyond Yeah, yeah, like they've got together with bloody Sydney Nolan and some of their arty mates And they're like we're gonna do some and and Almost fooling the world. Yeah, but it this is the art. This is And yeah, we had you believing step back and the other

Starting point is 01:07:55 The other thing is because we're all going this is good because this group are saying it's good But if they're also wrote and they're like it actually sucks like that's the reveal they go step back and now we Made you talk about it 80 years later. This is the art. Well here is some of that art. Here's some more of Ernst writing from the poem Perspective Love Song. This is one of the verses. Princess you lived in Princess Street. That's not good.

Starting point is 01:08:41 That's bad. Look. They are taking the piss now. They're getting cocky. That's not good. That's bad. They are taking the piss now. They're getting cocky. What else can we get away with? That does really feel like now we got them.

Starting point is 01:08:56 Let's really fuck with them. In a princess house with a princess hat. Princess, you lived in Princess Street where the urchins pick their nose in the sun with the left hand. You thought that paying the price would give you admission to the sad autumn of my Valhalla. But I too invented faithfulness. Oh, yeah. I don't know. By the end I'm like, yeah, that sounds like it could, I don't know. By the end I'm like, yeah, that sounds like a good one. I don't know. And here's my favorite line in all of Ern's writing is, Princess, you lived in Princess? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:09:32 But people love, you know, they're authors, they're friends, they love it, so the publishers. But not everyone was convinced of what they were reading. They didn't believe Ern Malley's story. They were a bit like, well, here, they're cynical. That part I reckon you put to one side. Is the writing good or not? That, like, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:09:50 But I'm pretty sure that first line isn't, but. But if it's good, I don't know why the story matters that much. But I'm wondering if it's bad. I can't wait to find out. Well, according to the ABC, soon after publication, a University of Adelaide literature lecturer publicly declared that he believed Max Harris had authored the poems himself. Oh, what?

Starting point is 01:10:11 Max is making this up. The Dirty Penguin himself. The angry penguin. Yeah, well he's becoming a Dirty Penguin. That sounds like a completely different thing. The Dirty Penguin, that's some real urban dictionary style. That's really rank. Yeah, no thanks.

Starting point is 01:10:19 Gross. like a completely different thing. The Dirty Penguin, that's unreal. Urban dictionary style. That's really rank. Yeah, no thanks. Gross. The Adelaide Press followed the controversy, reporting rumours that Mowley was actually literary professor and crime writer J. I.M. Stuart, aka Michael Innis. They're like, you write crime under another name, maybe writing poetry under

Starting point is 01:10:42 another name. So fingers are being pointed. OK, so you're earned, you're earned. No no, I'm an no, no one's a media. But all of this must be good publicity. Yes. Great publicity. Cause like now newspapers are picking up the story when before this is just a literary journal that literary types, literally that's it. Student bookmakers reportedly started offering odds on the poet's true identity

Starting point is 01:11:02 at a university. That's. Yeah. I love the idea of student book at La University. Look at that. Yeah, you know you may have student bookmakers too. We might get apprentice hairdressers. Yeah. We'll give you pretty good odds. We're not sure, you know.

Starting point is 01:11:12 I'm not a professional yet. Max Harris himself hired a private investigator to try and get to the bottom of Ernmeli to find out if he was real. Am I him? You work it out. Investigator to try and get to the bottom of earn Mallee to find out if he was real. Yeah That's a great way to throw it off the service I've hired a private investigator it's clearly not me It's very Billy Joel. We didn't thought the fire tactics Sing a six-minute song about it Journalists also started digging on the 18th of June, 1944, the Sunday Sun ran a teaser that said, Ern Malley, the greatest poet or the greatest hoax.

Starting point is 01:11:53 Adelaide University student newspaper, On D, teamed up with the Sydney University equivalent, which is Onnie Soir, and discovered the address given by Ethel Malley was in fact, and discovered the address given by Ethelmelli was in fact the That's is in the sister the return address was in fact the residence of a Sydney poet called Harold Stewart Oh, so the truth was starting to leak out though. That's a bit weird. How do you spell Stuart proper way the proper way? Oh my god, uncle The following week, Fact, or Capitals, which is the supplement of the Sydney newspaper, Sunday Sun and the Guardian at the time, ran an article that identified 26-year-old James McCauley and 27-year-old Harold Stewart as the hoaxers under the headline, Malley poet of debunk full story from the two authors

Starting point is 01:12:48 Right, so what better they're not can or we'll guess we'll find out but if this is just two guys I still think that if the poets poetry is good. It was good. It's good. Yeah, but I can't wait to find out Well the two men who are who are both poets themselves in an army unit stationed in Melbourne at the time Oh wait, they're doing both Yeah fighting and writing So the reason that fact had this article was they released a statement to them explaining their actions. Yeah. And I'm going to read a series of quotes from the two men explaining what they did.

Starting point is 01:13:29 They said, We decided to carry out a serious literary experiment. There was no feeling of personal malice directed against Mr. Max Harris, co-editor of Angry Penguins. For some years now, we have observed with distaste the gradual decay of meaning and craftsmanship in poetry. They did it purposely bad. Oh my god, that hurts. Oh poor Max. Oh no. They're right. Oh no. And he's just gone. I guess this is the only world in which your thing that like if it's a combination, you're like, that's fine still if they're doing good. Yeah. Oh no.

Starting point is 01:14:10 Oh no. Yeah, that's the only way that Harris could really have a bag on his face. He's just fully pumped it up. This is one of Australia's best ever poets and they write, Mr. Max Harris and other angry penguin writers represent an Australian outcrop of a literary fashion, which has become prominent in England and America. The distinctive feature of the fashion, it seemed to us, was that it rendered the devotees insensible of absurdity and incapable of ordinary discrimination. And they go on to say what they don't like about this sort of poetry. They say,

Starting point is 01:14:38 "... our feeling was that by processes of critical self-delusion and mutual admiration, processes, by processes of critical self-delusion and mutual admiration, the perpetrators of this humorless nonsense had managed to pass it off would-be intellectuals and bohemiums here and abroad as great poetry. Their work appeared to us to be a collective of garish images without coherent meaning and structure, as if one erected a coat of bright paint and called it a house. However, it was possible that we had simply failed to penetrate to the inward substance of these productions. The only way of settling the matter was by experiment. It was, after all, fair enough. If Mr. Harris proved to have sufficient

Starting point is 01:15:17 discrimination to reject the poems, then the tables would have been turned. What we wished to find out was, can those who write and those who praise so lavishly this kind of writing tell the real product from consciously and deliberate concocted nonsense?" So they're like, well, we'll send in some crap and if they detect that it's fake, then we'll know that they actually can tell the difference between like Dylan Thomas and a couple of guys hanging around. But Dave, is it not possible that they stumbled upon accidentally great modernist writing 17 times? And that they were all each better than the last.

Starting point is 01:15:54 Yeah, they're amazing. And they went on to describe in their statement how they created the poems. And it's quite interesting how they say they wrote them. They say, we produced the whole of Earnmely's tragic life work in one afternoon, with the aid of a chance collection of books, which happened to be on our desk, the concise Oxford Dictionary, a collected Shakespeare, and the Dictionary of Quotations. We opened books at random, and choosing a word or phrase haphazardly. We then made lists of these and wove them into nonsensical sentences We misquoted and made false illusions. We deliberately

Starting point is 01:16:31 Perpetrated bad verse and selected awkward rhymes from Ripman's rhyming dictionary So that's what they had before rhyme zone was Ripman's rhyming dictionary. They did this the wrong way I reckon it was me and I'd done that and it starts blowing up I'd go alright. I'm flipping now We are earned Mally and we did this on purpose what great I'm a modernist now Can they like you're a what's better being a debunker or like seen as a great artist? I just go I could bang these out as much as we like it's Ethel here. I found another 50. Yeah. I am, yeah. So because if...

Starting point is 01:17:12 Wow. It's a lot, isn't it? Because if there's like, so if you were doing it on purpose as art, like, you know, if somebody said to you, actually, this was my process. Like David Bowie did art like this sometimes, right? Right, yeah. Like, so if you were as an artist saying, yeah, this is how we put together this modern my process. Like David Bowie did art like this sometimes, right? Right, yeah. So if you were as an artist saying, yeah, this is how we put together

Starting point is 01:17:27 this modernist poetry, I literally just read from different books. There's Shakespeare, there's the phone book. There's literally I was reading the phone book and I saw there was a woman called Princess. She lives on Princess Street. I thought that was funny. I chucked that in. Like, you know, I intentionally put some hard to rhyme bits in there as well. You people would go, oh, yeah, that's great art. Like that makes sense to me as art.

Starting point is 01:17:47 Just the intention of it. Because they were doing it as a debunking one. Yeah, it's a bit of a piss take. It's suddenly different. Yeah. Yeah. Princess on Princess Street sounds like a Bruce Springsteen lyric or something. That's how good it is. Yeah, that's good.

Starting point is 01:17:59 I guess it's like, you know, if you're at a fancy restaurant and they give you, like, ingredients on a plate, they can go, oh, this is deconstructed. Whereas like, if you just like found those ingredients in other circumstances, you'd be like, that's my shopping. Yeah. Like I have to make it into something now, right? It's a context that's important. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:18:18 That's very true. Like it feels like, I'm sure I've read stories of this, like a painting or sell for a bunch of money with a fake story and it turns out a baby painted or an elephant or something, you know what I mean? It's like that, you go, we knew you couldn't tell splodges of paint apart. You say that this is high art, but it's just nonsense. We got you. And it feels bad.

Starting point is 01:18:39 I don't know why. That makes me feel really uncomfortable. Like, oh, I'm glad the art people think, you know, believe the nonsense. Who cares? If you like it, you like it. Yeah. That's why. I mean, it's interesting that somebody looked at a poetic movement

Starting point is 01:18:54 and went, we've got a debunker. Yeah. What? Well, yeah, Australian culture was so different back then. The poetry debunkers. These guys are in Melbourne waiting to go off to war where they probably won't come home and they're like, I know what I'm going to do with my final days. Not with family or friends. I'll make up a poet.

Starting point is 01:19:14 That's a way to kill a day. They explained that they even made up quotes from historical figures like Russian revolutionary Vladimir Lenin who was quoted by Ernmally as saying, the emotions are not skilled workers. And he never said that, but it sounds great. Sounds great. Sounds really good. I'm the perp, like, yeah, everything they say, I'm like, apart from that princess on Princess, I'm just like, I chose it. This sounds like it could be.

Starting point is 01:19:42 There was also a clue or two in there that it was all made up. They put a couple of little little hints in there. Take this line from the poem Sibylleen. It says, it is necessary to understand that a poet may not exist, that his writings are the incomplete circle and straight drop of a question mark. That's been again, that sounds awesome. That sounds good. But they are saying.

Starting point is 01:20:03 But also in retrospect, that sounds pretty obvious. Yeah, yeah. They've highlighted the line that Paul McConnor said. Yeah, that's like when people think that there's, when the Delta and Omicron came out, and if you rearrange the letters of Delta and Omicron, it's like media control. And the thing that I always love about that

Starting point is 01:20:22 is that it's like secret people running the world, but like they're leaving clues. If you can just work it out. They're having a bit of fun with it. And that's a big clue. That's like, oh this author might not be real. Yeah. They're playing it like they're the Riddler. You know, we want Batman to have a chance to figure this out.

Starting point is 01:20:40 I mean I could just blow up all these buildings. You know, that's the fun in that. Where's the fun in that. Where's the sport if we can't get caught? In this statement, the two hoaxers also said that the first three lines of the poem Culture as Exhibit, which are swamps, marshes, borough pits and other areas of stagnant water serve as breeding grounds, were taken from a direct quote from an American report on the drainage of breeding grounds of mosquitoes.

Starting point is 01:21:07 And they've just put it over three lines. That's awesome. But you know what? I'm with Matt. That sounds good to me. It does sound good. I mean. Although they're clearly choosing stuff that is believable.

Starting point is 01:21:18 They're not really taking the piss. I mean, I'm sure I could read you a bit of T.S. Elliot now and we'd all be like, oh yeah, yeah I guess Yeah, that would be a that could be a fun game or bullshit or not That's fun The statement also said that despite the dupe taking in Max Harris and many others that he showed the work to it doesn't prove their Lack of intelligence they write it proves something far more interesting It proves that a literary fashion can become so hypnotically powerful that it can

Starting point is 01:21:47 suspend the operation of critical intelligence in quite a large number of people." So they're like, you know, these people want to believe. Yeah. So they believe. I think it is. It's really interesting. And it also makes the criticism of Stephen Orr from 2021 like, mate, how it's easy to do it in 2021 is like, yeah, I don't think it's that good, actually. Like now that you know that it's not from a mosquito report. Why are you even talking about it now?

Starting point is 01:22:16 Like it's worth criticism. Stephen Orr. There's villains in this story, probably. But my main one is Stephen Orr. And if you're listening Stephen Orr, thanks so much. Interestingly, one of the only two people that McCauley and Stuart the hoaxers had let in on their hoax was McCauley's friend from his high school days, John Kerr, who would go on to become the Governor General of Australia. Yes. He's the one, is he the one who? The famous.

Starting point is 01:22:45 The Whitlam one, yes. He's famously sacked Australian Prime Minister Goff Whitlam. Was he also the one who was drunk at the races? Drunk at the races, yes. That's right. Well, that's a weird side character to be introduced to at this point in the report. But I found that so weird that they let two people know, one of them was their old mate John Kerr, who would go on to sack Australian Prime Minister Goff with them.

Starting point is 01:23:05 What about John Kerr? Well, that knowledge destroyed him. You could never trust anybody from then on. He was like, are you the Prime Minister? Who is the Queen? Am I the representative? I couldn't tell you anything about any other Governor-General that I'd dig. He needs a movie.

Starting point is 01:23:20 That's like a almost Forrest Gump style. He's just floating through history. I mean, you're right. I mean, not quite floating. He was pretty key in the sacking of a government. But yeah, the only one to ever sack the Prime Minister. What was the story about him being drunk at the races? He got drunk at the races.

Starting point is 01:23:36 And then he spoke on microphone. I think I'm conflating the Sandy Roberts calling. It's different. Different, yeah. He got, her name was. I think something Dick. Dick and he called her Cock. She was like Miss Australia or something. Yeah and he was introducing her. Samantha Dick and he said he goes he calls her Samantha Cock. That's so good from Sandy. That's great. But that wasn't the Governor General.

Starting point is 01:24:05 No, that was not the Governor General. He was just slurring his words or something. And he was there, part of the earned Mellie. Wow. The other one, the other person I let in on the hoax was everyone's favourite 18th century poet writing in the 20th century, A.D. Hope, who was of course well known as an enemy to Max, publicly taking shots at him. And many speculated that A.D. Hope was so in on the hoax that he may have contributed to it.

Starting point is 01:24:31 They say, oh, we just told him about it. But others are like, he could have been. It was like Hope pulling the strings. Totally a real mastermind because he really he pledged to bring Max down. And that's what he was doing. Yeah, totally. Oh yeah, all right. Jeez.

Starting point is 01:24:47 There's also a great conjecture about, they say it only took one afternoon, but most modern journalists are like, I reckon they worked on this for a lot longer. Yeah, yeah. It just, it sounds better to be like, yeah, that's how easy it is. We were at 17 in an afternoon, but most people think that- Because they, so like the ones you read, apart from Princess on Princess Street, sounded like they took a bit of time, you know, that one about bacteria.

Starting point is 01:25:07 You don't just know that one. I did just fully copy. OK, that couldn't have taken too long. But absolutely. Max Harris was deeply shocked by the hoax, but continued to vouch for the poetry's merit, a stand he took throughout his life. I actually I'm just remembering in year nine, I kind of did something like this as well. And it was so lazy because we had an English assignment where we had to bring in two poems about animal that reference animals.

Starting point is 01:25:36 And I'd forgotten to do it. So and we had to go up and read them. So I just I banged one out about a cat and went up and read it just like and caught a by Derek Johnson or whatever. And you know, I just got away with it because you know, poems are nonsense. So you just like the black cat purrs. Purrs it does. Look at it purr. Purring like a cat. That one was Derek Johnson. And the next one. What's the teaching I say? They're probably not hardly paying attention. I think that one was Derek Johnson and the next one. I don't know what's the teaching going to say. They're probably not hardly paying attention.

Starting point is 01:26:07 And then you're just like, I think that one was about socialism. Yeah, actually makes them, I love how open it is to interpretation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one thing I know is it's not about a cat. What is it about? I don't know.

Starting point is 01:26:21 I do not know. What do you think it's about? It's asking questions, I know that. Not about cats. Certainly not about cats. I can rule that out. You're the modern day Ern Malley then. Well, ErnMalley.net writes,

Starting point is 01:26:35 whether they liked it or not, Max Harris asserted that McCauley and Stuart had written their best poetry, their only poetry of real genius. The assumed persona of Ern Malley had liberated them. He kept saying like... Oh yeah that's good. He stumbled down. Well by the way this is the best thing that you've ever done. This is actually good shit. And you're normally terrible at it. I like your style, Max Harris.

Starting point is 01:26:59 The most surprising thing is that you wrote something this good. Wow. So apparently you're like George Costanza. It's opposite day. If you're not trying to write good poetry, you actually come up with something. That is the perfect way to play it. Yeah. What a Max. Double down, Max. Yeah, this could threaten his whole career, right?

Starting point is 01:27:17 If he goes, I've been fooled. And I imagine it probably did take some shine off him. It was bad for him. So the subsequent- The school asked for 16 of the 20 prizes. The subsequent issue of Angry Penguins largely was devoted to the analysis of the poems and they got a bunch of their writers and friends to give their opinions.

Starting point is 01:27:38 And the merits of the poems are actually still debated to this day. They there are still fans of the poem. Not Stephen Hall. Not Stephen Hall. But a lot of other people are like, this is really good modernist stuff. Yeah. And I feel sorry for Max Harris, who was still only 22 years old when this all happened, and he was widely ridiculed for publishing the fake poetry. Despite doubling down, there's these articles written about him like, haha, they made fun

Starting point is 01:28:02 of you, you modernist dickhead. And it wasn't nice for him. Meanwhile, the hoaxes were praised. Time magazine, so big Time magazine wrote about, wrote that it's, they had a headline, Australian army Lieutenant James McCauley, who fought in New Guinea and Corporal Harold Stewart were out to kill more than an afternoon when they concocted Malley's poems. These guys should write poetry.

Starting point is 01:28:27 The Bulletin gave earnest thanks to the Diggers who were described as joint debunkers of Bosch and Blar and Blather. Yeah, because the mainstreams always love to take down, you know, the fancy new modernist. Yeah, literary types. Oh, they're a bit hoity-toity. You know, the fancy new modernist. Yeah, literary types. Oh, they're a bit hoity toity. Yeah, I knew it didn't make sense. Yeah, yeah. You was down when I didn't get it.

Starting point is 01:28:50 No, I wasn't the. Yeah, I wasn't the problem. These latte sippers, inner city elites with their fancy words. So they're saying they're calling them the thanks to the diggers. There's no mention of the angry penguins, contributors who also fought in the war and never came home, but they're trying to make it like that. There's these literary types and then there's these Aussie heroes. Yeah, yeah. Showing them for this for the fakes they are.

Starting point is 01:29:13 You still get that in Australian politics, right? The the very wealthy Poles like it's all it's ring so disingenuous when you hear these politicians who are standing in the elites. Yeah, they'd wanted to, you know, caring about, you know, woke nonsense. And they're talking about the elites like they're not rich. You know, like the leader of the coalition is a super rich guy, right? I think he owns like a hundred houses. And he's always talking about the battlers.

Starting point is 01:29:44 And no, I don't understand why journalists don't ever go, can I just double check something with it? like a hundred houses and he's always talking about the battlers and no I don't understand why journalists don't ever go can I just double check something with it I don't know is this true that you are in like a hundred houses who's elite compared to you I mean also the idea that poet poets would be in an elite group by modern-day standards also like someone's like a poet you're like yeah but what's your real job? Well I think I think Ray-Ban what's it home? Ray-Ban. Ray-Ban. Is it? Ray-Gun. Ray-Gun. Ray-Gun is sort of the modern David because she's been copping a lot of hate because she's she's had some some public money for a university work and stuff and and her being not that good at breakdancing has opened up a lot of people who hate that sort of

Starting point is 01:30:33 stuff like anyone going to university for free and stuff like that it's really opened her up to a lot of vitriol and whatever and fair enough because we all know academics that's where the money is you become an academic to become a multi-millionaire. That's sweet, academic money. And I know there's people on both, like, people are attacking her for all sorts of reasons and I don't really understand it, but yeah, some of it seems pretty ridiculous. Like, oh, she's getting money to write academic papers. Like, yeah, I think you should be paid to.

Starting point is 01:31:00 That's what academics do. Paid to do your work, right? Just getting paid to do her work? What the hell? I do feel like, you know, there's someone really bold about going, I'm an expert in this field. You can just say that. Don't put yourself so out there that people go,

Starting point is 01:31:18 we're not really going to take your lectures that seriously anymore. Don't you think she maybe heard her brand a bit for her class members? I mean, sure. But like, I enjoy the information you convey on this podcast, despite the fact that you're all clowns. But now watch me break dance. Very good point. Yeah. So the media was coming from Max Harris. Now watch me break dance. Very good point.

Starting point is 01:31:46 Yeah. So the media was coming from Max Harris. The conversation quotes Niall Brennan writing for the Catholic Advocate who really took aim at the Angry Penguins. Yeah. At the time he wrote, you cannot afford to ignore Typhus and we cannot afford to ignore Harris and his gaggle of penguins. It is hoped, it is to be hoped that the

Starting point is 01:32:05 counter-attack of Mr. Stewart and McCauley may well have fatal results for this mental disease." Oh boy! Alright. So Max Harris is cop in it and it became quite a sensational story widely reported around the world and all this unwanted attention had another bad side effect for Max Harris. In August, the police arrived at his doorstep to question him on immoral and indecency charges relating to the earn-malady poetry that he had published, and he was charged with indecent publication.

Starting point is 01:32:39 I mean, I know that princess line wasn't good, but indecent? I feel like that's a stretch. It wasn't that bad. So was there fruitier stuff? Is that what we're saying? Yeah, I'll read a couple of bits now and see how fruity you think this is, Will. The matter went to trial in September 1944 with Max on the hook for the charge of indecent advertisements, for which he pleaded not guilty.

Starting point is 01:33:00 Again, lots of press cover the story. Just keeps getting bigger and bigger, this thing. Detective Vogel Sang, which is a great name, was a witness for the crown and outlined the supposed indecency. The Mali poem called Night Peace mentions being in the park and had the line the naked and trespassing. And the police officer said, I have found that people who go into parks at night go there for immoral purposes. I have found that people who go into parks at night go there for immoral purposes. So that's one of the most immoral parts.

Starting point is 01:33:35 The other evidence was the poem, Egyptian register used the word incestuous. The poem includes these lines. The long shanked ibises that on the Nile told one hushed peasant of rebirth, move in a calm immortal freeze on the mausoleum of my incestuous and self-fructifying death. Self-fructifying, yes. Yeah, that's really good. I'm going to need a moment. I'm going to do some self-fructifying a moment.

Starting point is 01:33:59 Yeah, that's so funny. And they now know that he didn't write it, right? Yeah, but because he's the publisher. Yeah. He's put it out and he's on the hook for it. So crazy. But yeah, they're like they're not they're not able to read into things at all. Because like the word naked in the park, they're he's saying it very literally.

Starting point is 01:34:18 Yeah. And then incestuous. So when writing, when giving his evidence about the word incestuous, Maggie Nolan, again from The Conversation writes, Detective Vogel saying admitted to not knowing what the word meant but said, quote, I think there is a suggestion of indecency about it. Your Honour? And he went home to his cousin wife. That's, yeah, that's so funny. So that bad news for like just 80 years on if you go into the internet.

Starting point is 01:34:53 Noted literary critics testified to defend Max but it was not enough. And the end of the trial, Max Harris was found guilty, fined five pounds in preference to a six week prison sentence. He chose to pay instead. He was ordered to pay an additional £21 in legal costs, which today is closer to £1,000. I think this is right because while we're, you know, his compatriots are fighting for our freedom overseas, that we're not allowed to say words like naked. What are they over there fighting for if it's not for our right to say naked in a poem?

Starting point is 01:35:28 You know what? Rough. And the actual writers of the poetry face no charges. None. They're not in trouble at all. They're in the press as heroes for debunking. Max was wounded by the public humiliation, but the angry penguins continued on for a couple of years before ceasing after issue number nine in July 1946 and

Starting point is 01:35:48 I don't want to upset you here Matt, but I'm gonna quote from author Stephen Orr again He told the ABC in 2021 that Max Harris never really recovered as a poet Oh, it's a shame. Although he did try and embrace the whole saga and once again Oh, that's a shame. Although he did try and embrace the whole saga and once again backed Ern Malley when in 1952, along with John Reed, his old publishing pal, they published another poetry journal that they called Ern Malley's Journal.

Starting point is 01:36:13 That's great. But Max himself didn't write as much poetry, but he did have a lasting influence on the Australian writing, publishing, and book selling scene. He later teamed up with former Angry Penguin's business manager, Mary Mary Martin and joined her running the Mary Martin Bookshop, which he fully took over in the 60s and became one

Starting point is 01:36:31 of Australia's best booksellers with shops across the country. You've heard of? Yeah. Yeah. He sold the business in the late 70s, but there's still a few left in Melbourne, in Southbank, Port Melbourne, and there's one at the Queen Vic Market as well. Yes. Still with the same name.

Starting point is 01:36:43 What's the name, sir? Mary Martin. Oh, sorry? Mary Martin. Mary Martin, yeah. Oh, cool. So he was instrumental in that and that's what he did for a long time. He also co-founded the Australian Book Review, devoted to critically reviewing Australian literature and wrote a column for the Australian newspaper for 27 years. According to the ADB again, in 1973, the owner of the newspaper, Rupert Murdoch,

Starting point is 01:37:05 said, every society needs a Max to identify its successes as well as its failures, its forlorn hopes and its lost causes, and also to shake it out of its smugness and hypocrisy to act as a catalyst and an irritant. Geez, Rupert's changed a bit, hasn't he? That doesn't sound like something he would say now, shaking us out of changed a bit, hasn't he? That doesn't sound like something he would say now. Shaking us out of arrogance and... Yeah, weird. Yeah, it's weird that, like, Rupert Murdoch being a fan of his makes me not like him.

Starting point is 01:37:33 Just immediately suspicious. What kind of guy is this? You know what, actually, he deserved what came to him. That's what I'm hearing. Mary Martin Bookshop, that was pretty good, though. He came to him, that's what I'm hearing. Mary Martin Bookshop, that was pretty good though. Yeah. A collection, so he continued to write poetry, but I believe he didn't publish it himself anymore, which is a bit sad.

Starting point is 01:37:51 But a collection of his work was published posthumously by the National Library of Australia as The Angry Penguin. Great. He was made an officer of the order. It'd be great if it turned out later that it wasn't his work and it was just a collection of other things. In an ultimate. That would be sick. Or he wasn't really dead.

Starting point is 01:38:14 He won a few more prizes before death and also after death. He couldn't help himself. He was made an officer of the Order of Australia. The Alumni Association of Adelaide University awarded him the title of Father of Modernism in the Australian Arts He died in 1995, but in 2018 he was inducted into the Australian Media Hall of Fame So he yeah, he couldn't help Getting those honors Wow and as for the hoaxes well Macaulay Stewart and A.D. Hope the 18th century's

Starting point is 01:38:46 Macaulay Stewart and A.D. Hope, the 18th century's best 20th century poet, made their serious poetry debuts in 1946, being published in H.M. Green's anthology, Modern Australian Poetry. Their hoax and the public ridicule of modernism actually had a real effect on poetry in Australia for decades after this. In 1964, the poet and journalist Ronald McQuague claimed that the hoax determined the way English literature would be taught in universities and in Australia for generations and that McCauley and Hope gained academic authority through the notoriety generated by the hoax. Modernism was for a long time dismissed in this country because of this whole debacle. Yeah people like oh it's that easy to get published they stopped reading anything else. It's funny that despite trying to ridicule modernism with

Starting point is 01:39:29 poetry that they claim they came up with in one afternoon and then dedicating their lives to what they considered a superior art form, the opening line of Harold Stewart's Wikipedia page says it all. It says, Harold Frederick Stewart, date of birth, date of death, also 1995, was an Australian poet and Oriental scholar. He is chiefly remembered alongside poet James McCauley as a co-creator of the Earn Malley literary hoax. So 80 years on, the hoax has stuck around and it's like his most famous achievement. And this is the art. This is the art.

Starting point is 01:40:01 Smoke bomb. And yeah, 80 years later, Ernmally still has fans. Like I said, the poetry is still widely read and talked about. Something that not many of the other poets of their day can say, which is so crazy. I love it. And some contend that by dropping all inhibitions and treating the writing like Modena style as a bit of a joke, they dropped their facade completely and wrote some truly good poetry. That's so good.

Starting point is 01:40:29 Even if accidentally. And I thought I'd finish with another final reading from Ernmally. This is the poem Petite Testament. In the 25th year of my age, I find myself to be a dromedary that has run short of water between one oasis and the next mirage, and having despaired of ever making my obsessions intelligible, I am content at last to be the sole clerk of my metamorphosis. Begin here, in the year 1943, I resigned to the living or collateral images, reserving to myself a man's inalienable right to be sad at his own funeral.

Starting point is 01:41:12 Hey, yeah, that sounds good to me. That sounds pretty good to me too, I've got to be honest. I think they accidentally just were really good at poetry for us. Oh, there it is. That's the story of Australia's greatest literary hoax. Wow. That was great, Dave. Yeah, I'm so glad. That was really good. I enjoyed that very much. When I discovered the story, I hadn't heard of it either. It had been suggested by those people in the hat, and I was looking for a hoax to talk about.

Starting point is 01:41:42 I thought that'd be a fun thing to put up for the vote for our Patreon supporters. And I was just really intrigued by the whole bit and the ongoing debate eight decades later. Is it good? Is it? In the back of my mind, I was thinking, oh, you're telling us the backstory of Max because he is going to be Mally. Yeah. But yeah, I love the twist.

Starting point is 01:42:04 Fantastic stuff. And the fact that it was my uncle as well. That's right. Yeah. But yeah, I love the twist. Fantastic stuff. And the fact that it was my uncle as well. That's right. Harry. Probably, probably an uncle. Where is he from? Is he from Melbourne? Yeah, let's say that. Yeah, sure. Thanks so much for joining us, Will. I appreciate it. I just feel like I'm going to getism or... That's the real thing I'm gonna want more and more. That was the aim here today. Yeah, I'm definitely gonna... I've just never really critically analyzed many of their lyrics. I just find them, they're very catchy and fun.

Starting point is 01:42:36 And the stuff I get is fun and funny. But, yeah, the literary stuff... I'm like, I get that he was was an author, or he was a some sort of a like there's one all about like feminist stuff or and like. Yeah, that's the. It took you a second, but you definitely heard it. Yeah. There's a lot of good stuff in there.

Starting point is 01:43:11 And, you know, I just think it's really cool and clever and interesting. So, when I was reading about this, Matt, I was thinking about how sometimes Matt and I are both big fans of Nick Cave and we sometimes send each other like Lyrics out of context of his because he's also yes I was takes his writing very seriously and he sits down at a typewriter every day nine to five Busts out whatever comes to him and then he turns them into these songs But sometimes they are outrageous the lyrics like my favorite is from elephant song I'm a Botticelli Venus with a penis riding an enormous skull of fan There is no Nick Cave I'm a Botticelli Venus with a penis riding an enormous skull of fan Like he's seen as a great writer but some of it you go are you taking the piss out?

Starting point is 01:44:01 Yeah, what's that one about from an old Bad Seed song where he talks about what's the name? It used to be your favorite one about Miley Cyrus. Oh, yeah. It's a virus or something. Hannah Montana crosses the African

Starting point is 01:44:20 savannah. That's not a lyric. Nick, what are you talking about? Like I laughed because it was part of Crosses the African Savannah. Yeah, yeah. That's not a lyric. That's not a lyric. No. Nick, what are you talking about? Like I laughed because it was part of his 20,000 Days on Earth, his documentary, him writing that song. I had to pause it because I laughed so hard. I'm like, that is a parody of Nick Cash.

Starting point is 01:44:36 Yes. And then Montana crosses the Savannah. Crosses the African Savannah. And there's like heaps of them. The more you listen, you're like, oh, what? Crosses the African savannah There's like heaps of them all you'll listen to like oh One of my favourite ones from the same one as the Botta Jelly Penis album he goes He says um I take off my tap dancing shoes and put on my lap dancing shoes shoes. You are, you're fucking with us aren't you? It's so funny. So good. Or is it? Or is it?

Starting point is 01:45:16 Hey, making us think. You know what? I can't wait to find out. Yeah, yeah. I love it too. Will, thank you so much for joining us now. You do so many podcasts and they're all fantastic. And they've recently over the last year or so, come together under one banner. We can find them all in one spot. Thank you, Dave. That was very well explained. I appreciate it.

Starting point is 01:45:35 Yes, they are all in the everyone relax feed, wherever you find podcasts. So there is four different podcasts there, but they're all within our world and they're all within that one feed. One of them, and if, because we got a bunch of majority of our listeners overseas and I talk about Aussie Rules 40 a bunch, but you've got a weekly podcast about Aussie Rules 40.

Starting point is 01:45:55 A weekly Australian Rules football podcast called Two Guys One Cup. We call it an AFL adjacent podcast. So if you are someone who doesn't really follow the AFL, I think it's like a show you can still listen to because we talk about a lot of side issues. There's not a lot of analysis. No, no. In fact, that's the weakest spot if we ever stumble into that area. Hairstyles.

Starting point is 01:46:17 Hairstyles, club songs, whether the players wash their own socks, storylines between whether they're friends or not. Like yeah, it's that sort of vibe and then we have two podcasts Charlie and I sort of do it together but then I have a an interview podcast called Willosophy where I talk to people about their life philosophy and Jess has been a guest on that so if people want to have a yeah check that's a great episode it was really fun. I think I've been on a couple episodes of Fofop as well, Toe Faux with Friends is now what that is called. Oh, Toe Faux with Friends, sorry.

Starting point is 01:46:46 But yes, that's correct. And one of them, me and Charlie just spoke about Limp Bizkit for like an hour, I think. Sometimes. I planned and just some reason we're. Look, yes, like that is what our world is. It is. Like you just hear for whatever it is. I told you that we've got a regular thing now where we're just trying different

Starting point is 01:47:04 biscuits on the podcast. It has no reason other than we thought it'd be nice when we did the podcast to eat a biscuit. To have a biscuit. That's so good. Treat for you. Yeah. Oh, Cookie.

Starting point is 01:47:15 What do you, what's the segment called? Uh, no, no, we don't have a name for the segment. That's literally how, but we have been saying, let's crack the pack. That's out on T-shirts. Let's crack the pack. Let's crack the pack. It's time to crack the pack. So good. Yeah. So people can check it out. Everyone relax.

Starting point is 01:47:39 Will Anderson, thank you so much. Thank you. As we say goodbye to Will Anderson, we say hello, Patreon supporters. Hello. I know you've skipped ahead. Again, I've said this before, but really a great episode. Worth going back and listening to. A good first episode for the Patreon supporters to listen to, I think.

Starting point is 01:47:55 Yeah, I think so. Good entry level. Good entry level episode. Yeah. I mean, they did vote for it, so. That's right. Miley Cyrus floats in a swimming pool in Toluca Lake. There's another Nick Cave lyric from

Starting point is 01:48:08 that song where he talks about Hannah Montana. Does the African Savannah doesn't even cross the African Savannah. It does. It's like it's a dance. He sat down at his typewriter wearing

Starting point is 01:48:21 a suit and wrote that out as as the simulated rainy season begins, she curses the queue at the zoo looves. There's a, on the Nick Cave Reddit, when I was looking this up to see if there are any other funny ones, there's a post about funniest Nick Cave lyrics. Oh yeah. And one is, I can't even remember this this one but my baby calls me the Loch Ness monster two great big humps and then I'm gone yeah that's that's I think that's from that same album is it I can't remember that look it up that's from that's from Grinderman Oh God I'm Tamer oh yeah the warm time that's the right song actually and I'm looking up another song off that Grinderman 2 album as well, which has a lyric.

Starting point is 01:49:13 It's all about, it's called Palaces of Montezuma. And it's sort of like everything I'll give you. I guess it's saying how much I love you, I'll give you everything. He says stuff like, Psychedelic invocations of Matahari at the station, I give to you. A Java princess of Hindu birth, a woman of flesh, a child of the earth, I give to you. Thank you, Nick. Thank you, Nick. I'm proud to take it. I'm okay.

Starting point is 01:49:39 Yeah, no thank you. The spider goddess and the needle boy, the slave dwarves they employ. I give to you. Thank you so much. But what's the the spinal cord of JFK wrapped in Marilyn Monroe's negligee? I give to you. I've actually already got one.

Starting point is 01:50:02 Thank you. Thank you, though. Thank you. One more one. Thank you. Thank you though. Thank you One one more for me far from me, but the lyrics someone's posted It's good to hear you're doing well, but really can't you find somebody else that you can ring and tell yeah Cold it's kind of clunky as well. I know Well, we love him. Oh, no doubt about that. We are not making fun. We love him. Can I? And I have been talking about the song, what I was calling TS Eliot He Wanker.

Starting point is 01:50:32 It's actually Mr. Eliot He Wanker. And that's alluding to a different Eliot. Well, no, it's all about TS Eliot, but it alludes to the TS Eliot poem, The The Hollow Men which has the epigraph Mr. Kurtz he dead so it's a play on that Mr. Elliot he wanker. Okay I'm gonna go to the bottom of that one but can I can I read you the lyrics because I think this is poetry. Well, T.S. Eliot turned the radio, couldn't get rid of the static, serves him right for being so enigmatic. T.S. Eliot crashed his motorcar, snapped a clutch cable. I bet you my youngest

Starting point is 01:51:18 daughter could drink him under the table. T.S. Elliot lost his wallet when he went into town, serves him right for hanging out with the likes of Ezra Pound. T.S. Elliot thinks he's famous because he's a genius. But but don't you know, I'm ambivalent about the modernist achievements. That's good stuff. Thank you, Tism. Thank you, Tism. Thank you, Mr. Elliot.

Starting point is 01:51:45 He wanker. He wanker. I think they got him there. Got him. Alright, so this part of the show is all about us thanking our great Patreon supporters. If you want to get involved, go to patreon.com slash 2GonePod. There's a bunch of stuff you can get involved in there Dave. Oh my goodness. More bonus episodes that you can point a stick at these days.

Starting point is 01:52:08 And should we say, this is for everyone, please sign up to our touring mailing list. Yes. Where you can put down any cities that you would come to a live show at. Because that's something we've just been talking before we recorded today. And yeah, we're planning probably our biggest year of touring yet in 2025. And if we know where you are and where you'll come to see a show, that really helps us plan where we're going to come to as well. And that's if you're in Australia, New Zealand, America, Canada, the UK, Europe, Asia. We got numbers in Tokyo, apparently.

Starting point is 01:52:45 Yeah, it's awesome. If you want us to know that you're there in Hobart, Amsterdam, Rio, wherever you are, the best way for us to know that you will come to a show is by filling out this little form and then it's very quick. Name, email, tick a few boxes of where you'd come, send, and then we'll just contact you when we're going to go to those places. And it helps us plan. We're much more likely to come to those places if we see the numbers on the screen.

Starting point is 01:53:09 And yeah, you can find that link on our social media. It'll probably be, yeah, it's certainly on Instagram, but it's also on our link tree. And yeah, you don't have to be a patron for that. Anyone can sign up for that. But if you are a patron, you will be the first to hear about the live shows and you'll get discounted early bird tickets as well Available before anyone else and sometimes we sell nearly all of them to the patrons line. Yes, that's true But yeah planning a big year next year. We've been sending out some messages Today from stupid old just saying how we can where we can go and what we can do. I'm so freaking excited.

Starting point is 01:53:45 We are very very excited about that and yes and whilst you're on the Patreon you get the bonus episodes as well. We do four a week, four a month. Is there 4,000 up there now? 4,000 episodes. How many? 250. 250. The bakers, 400,000.

Starting point is 01:53:59 We do four a month including our ongoing Dungeons and Dragons, Do Go D&D campaign which has been getting a lot of love. Yeah, tell you what, my character, uh, Lemmy, no, not Lemmy Killmastr, what is it? Dimebag Killmastr. Dimebag Killmastr. That's a badass. Almost as badass as my name. Terry Sharfner. Terry Sharfner.

Starting point is 01:54:19 Bit of fun. So much fun on there, yeah. And D&D fans have been saying that we're really good at it, which is surprising and yeah. We were worried we'd offend them by being so bad at it. But you know, being silly. It's been very nice getting the positive feedback. So yeah, that's really, really great. And then yeah, all sorts of stuff.

Starting point is 01:54:37 It's patreon.com slash doogleonpod. You get to vote on topics like today's topic. Although Dave, you said to me just off mic, there was some controversy with this week's vote. This topic actually came second, but when I looked into the first topic, there wasn't quite enough information online, especially in English, for a full length episode with Will. So we've done it as a Patreon bonus episode that you'll be able to listen to. It'll already be out by the time this one's out. But I don't know what it is.

Starting point is 01:55:08 I know, don't want to spoil it for Matt, but it's a great topic. Had the best pitch ever. That's why it won the vote. But yeah, there weren't that many sources online. And I say that, like, there'll still be an over hour episode. Like all the bonus episodes these days, they go forever. Originally we were like, we'll just do mini topics. But then we end up, they go for over an hour.

Starting point is 01:55:27 Cause sometimes too. We feel like we don't edit them at all really and we take them for a bit of a walk. We have fun, we have fun. So yeah, look out for that one as well. All right, but the first thing we normally do in this section where we thank our great supporters is for people on the Sydney Schomburg level or above,

Starting point is 01:55:43 they get to give us a factor quota question or a progress suggestion. I give us a fact or quote or question or a paragraph or suggestion. I think in a recent episode, I actually forgot that there is a jingle for this section. Oh yes, I wonder if anyone noticed. Which goes a little something like this. Fact, quote or question. Bong, oh no, he always remembers the sing.

Starting point is 01:55:58 I always. Sometimes he forgets the song and sometimes he adds a bong. Yeah, that's right. So Dave, what we do in this section is people who sign up on the Sydney Schaumburg level get to give us a fact or a quote or a question or brag or suggestion or really whatever they like and they also give themselves a title. I read out a few each week, two, three, four, maybe this week four.

Starting point is 01:56:19 It's a bumper crop. Wow, love it. And the first one comes from Katie Mae Westgate, who's given themselves the title of Olympian brackets sort of. Okay. This could be the most intriguing title we've had for a long time for me. I believe this is a first time entry into the Fat Quota question section. And it's a question with Katie writing, sorry, it's taken me so long. I'm just over two years

Starting point is 01:56:47 away from the big five-oh, so I'm thinking it's the right time to have a midlife crisis. So my question is, what do you think I should do? Tattoos? Piercings? These all have question marks as well. Very good. Sports car? Find myself a himbo twink. What would you do? Oh, my title is a reference to me being a volunteer performer in the opening ceremony of London 2012,

Starting point is 01:57:13 which I consider to make me an official Olympian. Oh my gosh, you gotta start right there. You gotta commemorate that. You gotta get the rings. Oh yeah. Like all the athletes get the rings. Yeah. You were at the Olympics just as much as they were.

Starting point is 01:57:24 Yes, I did read an article about some Australian Olympians who are getting the rings removed because it reminds them of failure Oh right. I think I saw that yeah because they came fourth or fifth then people ask. Hey, you're at the Olympics And I say yeah pity back. Oh, yeah. Oh, what'd you do diving? Whatever? Oh, did you catch you go? I came fourth and they get people going. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. I'm in the fourth in the world. What? That's so sad. We got some issues here. Yeah, that's wrong. Come on.

Starting point is 01:57:52 You made it to the Olympics. And even I'm so impressed that. West Gatie over here. West Gatie. West Gatie. Yes, that's good. Yes, that's good. That's good stuff. So possibly that could be a good tattoo idea.

Starting point is 01:58:05 Yeah, I think that's fantastic. What do you think? Do you think maybe just buy a sports car? Maybe an Audi sports car, but you add two more rings. Maybe- That's great. The first Olympic Audi. Olympic ring, piercings, maybe a Himbo Twink who's an Olympian. That's really good.

Starting point is 01:58:21 Yeah. I think you just go, just make it your whole personality now. Yeah. I'm nearly 50. I'm all Olympian. I'm all good. Yeah. I think you just go, just make it your whole personality now. Yeah. I'm nearly 50. I'm all Olympian. I'm all in. Yeah. I mean, I assume that Katie's somewhere near London to be. I suppose that, obviously, this performance would have come

Starting point is 01:58:35 into volunteer to be part of it. But let's say they are. Is there any sort of British things to do? Go to, what are those big stone henges? Climb Stonehenge. Allegedly. Yes. Put you on the mark on it. Repel down Stonehenge. What about climb mountains? Sometimes people freak out and they, you know, all the, I don't know, after that story you told us a month ago or whatever. Oh no, UK's highest peaks. That's probably doable. Go up Ben Nevis. Oh yeah. 1345 meters. That sounds alright. That sounds doable. How hard is it to climb that go up Arthur's seat? Okay?

Starting point is 01:59:11 I've never done that in Edinburgh. Should we do that this time? Yeah, let's do it When we're there in November, I think I went up it Ten years back. Okay, I've typed in Ben Nevis and people also ask can a beginner climb Ben Nevis I've typed in Ben Nevis and people also ask, can a beginner climb Ben Nevis? Also known as Pony Track, the mountain part, that sounds good. Good is best for beginners. Out and back route is roughly 16k or 10 miles long, 1340 meters of descent. Usually seven to nine hours. That sounds like a good, get your midlife crisis over nine hours.

Starting point is 01:59:43 Yeah. And I mean, we're talking about an Olympian here. Exactly. So I think that'll be an absolute walk in the park. Yep. So yeah, Katie Mae Westgate or West Katie, as people call you, friends of yours call you. Yeah, I think that's the way to go.

Starting point is 02:00:02 Or drive up in your new Olympic Audi. That's the best of all. And then get a tattoo on the top, take a tattooist with you. Fantastic. First Olympic tattoo on top of Ben Nevis. Oh and go up with a twink. Yeah, a twinkie tattooist. Oh the tattoo, that's sufficient. Then you can drive a, you know, like a two-seater. Exactly, get a really sporty Audi with the Olympic rings. Fantastic. Great question. Great work. Congratulations on being in your late 40s. Next one comes from Jordan aka self-appointed vice president of sore bums. This is a brag, okay. This is a twist that this is a brag. Although what's your guess? Sore bums?

Starting point is 02:00:44 Alright, let's just see what they wrote. Some sort of world record. Absolutely worth it. Oh man. Yep. I took... Yep. All right.

Starting point is 02:00:56 So the... Jordan writes, hey y'all, I've just had the best vacation. I rode my motorcycle. That's where the Saw Bums are. Gotcha. Almost 14 hours to go to an event. At the event, I met someone and I'm now dating that someone. Hell yes! Four exclamations. She does live in another country, but that's besides the point. On my ride home,

Starting point is 02:01:19 I managed to get an iron butt riding 16 hundred and nine K's or thousand miles. Wow. That's for the Yanks as written by Jordan. Oh, I assumed Jordan was Yank because of the yaw. All right. The yaw felt I'm like, Oh, is this coming from the south? Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

Starting point is 02:01:35 I was thinking, and if they live in another country, if it's Mexico, it's probably not that far. Yeah. Or maybe they're from Canada. Yeah. Either way. Cause I was thinking if you're Australia, it's hard to drive the motorcycle to your, your new partner's place. Uh, and's place and I'll tell just straight up the Hume

Starting point is 02:01:48 yeah but to another country oh it's a country yes it does say country so the Hume to Papua New Guinea yeah well you know via a cruise ship and I'll tell you right now my bum was very sore. Was this about the ride? Or the date? Or which date? Also, if y'all have any advice, as y'all again, have any advice on long distance relationships, that wouldn't go astray. Thanks bunches. Have you ever done a long distance thing?

Starting point is 02:02:20 Ah, no. Yeah, well one time I traveled for like six months while my partner was at home and the day I got back she dumped me. This is not the advice we need. No, so I think I would not be... because I was young and maybe didn't understand what was going on a bit. But yeah, I probably didn't check in enough, but she wasn't checking. You know, it was just a thing. Yes, that makes sense.

Starting point is 02:02:52 We're just sort of, and then she's like in her head, she's like, I assumed you were off gallivanting. I was like, I wasn't gallivanting. I wish I was now. I was missing you the whole time. Oh yeah, you were never far from my thoughts. I like it. Well, you know, this is 15, this is nearly, you know, coming up to 20 years ago, maybe.

Starting point is 02:03:07 Yeah. It's like, I, um, I, you know, it wasn't like you, you're, you can text easily. Text costs like 1300 bucks or something. This is a pre-watt for the 200 bucks. You know, I could only afford a couple of those in a trip. So maybe these days we would say keep in touch. Keep in touch. Text, text, yeah. A few photos.

Starting point is 02:03:26 I mean video calls. I don't forget what you look like. Video calls even, you know. Yeah, video calls are good. But yeah, just be honest with each other. I don't know but yeah, be open and honest. It's all about communication. That's the key with all relationships, I assume. I would guess and I haven't been in a long-distance relationship but something like having a date to look forward to, like you know in four months I'll see you again, or I'll see you again in six months. You sort of. Yes. It's not.

Starting point is 02:03:53 Try and stay on the same page. Yeah, it feels like. If you're like, I'm never going to want to leave this city, probably let them know that because you don't want to be a year into the relationship and they go, you'll both realize you would never leave and you'll never be allowed to be in the same place again. I don't know. Yeah, maybe have those sort of conversations but at the same time it's always nice to be in something new and feel nice and fun about it all. Yeah, and good on you, you're a firm butt. Oh yeah, and of course you've got a butt that won't quit these days. Literally, you've been on that bike forever. Thank you so much Jordan. Congratulations on the new butt and the new

Starting point is 02:04:27 relationship. Next one comes from Dominic Lindner. Okay proud owner of a Dugo on inspired tattoo. What? What? Man we've got the three rings in Dugo on as well. Imagine a Dugo on Olympic tattoo. That would actually be really cool. Wes Katie, just something to think about. Nothing would say midlife crisis than a really niche tattoo like that. Anyway, Dominic has a fact writing, I've been listening to Dugon for many years and your podcast even resulted in a tattoo of mine. Let me just check. Yes, this is a first-time fact quarter question from Dominic. Me being German, I did not learn about Ernest Shackleton, brackets, release the slugs, all caps, in school,

Starting point is 02:05:14 but on your pod. The story about perseverance, camaraderie, and endurance really spoke to me, and I now have the HMS endurance and the root of Shackleton's expedition on my leg. Wow! It reminds me to soldier on even when life is tough sometimes. Thanks for being a part of mine in the last... Thanks for being a part of mine in the last seven or eight years.

Starting point is 02:05:38 I really appreciate you. Hey, Dominic, we really appreciate you too. That's amazing. I'd love to see a photo of that. Dominic, please. Dominic, please. Please, Dominic, we really appreciate you too. That's amazing. I'd love to see a photo of that. Dominic, please. Dominic, please, Dominic. And that's the second do go on inspired tattoo from that episode. Is it? Because someone got a slug.

Starting point is 02:05:54 Sophie in the UK, our Patreon group, Mum, has released the slugs tattooed on her. That's so good. Which is also incredible. Sophie and I'm so in my head about how to pronounce her name and I know I always get it wrong because I double bluff myself. I think it's Tudor. You tell me it's Tudor.

Starting point is 02:06:14 Did you notice that I didn't say her name because I'm too scared. I'm sorry, Sophie. I think it's Tudor. We know you, we've met you, but I'm... I think it's Chu Chu Tudor. Sophie Tudor, I'll say it now, has a great tattoo. On your Sophie Tudor, let us know that.

Starting point is 02:06:27 I've probably done it again, because I always, I flip the two and I go, Dave always says it wrong. And he says, shoot-a. I know. So it's Tudor, but now I may have mixed those around, but I'm pretty sure it's Sophie Tudor. Anyway, on your Sophie, you know I've never written in.

Starting point is 02:06:41 Thank you so much, Dominic, that's sick. Yeah, I love that. Release the photo of the tattoo. Yeah. And finally this week, Simon Ma, aka Uncle Simon of the Pod. Turned up to your sports ball game champ. I wouldn't miss it for the world here. Thanks, Simon. I've got you some orange slices.

Starting point is 02:07:00 Thanks, Unki. Thanks, Unki. Unki, Simon. Always comes in with the slices right at the right time. Do you think that makes him Sophie's brother? I think it does. She's, she's Pod Mom. He's Pod Uncle. Pod Uncle. Anywho, Simon writes, oh I've got a question. Hi Pod Gang. Hope, this is a cool uncle stuff. Pod Gang. Yeah, that's cool. Hope, it's hanging well.

Starting point is 02:07:26 This is a cool uncle. That's cool uncle stuff. He's doing shockers, I'm sure. Yeah, hope it's hanging well, my guys. Here, here's a little nip of Jim Beam. Don't tell your dad. That's it. Like that.

Starting point is 02:07:38 Last time, he's becoming like a, maybe a bit of an iffy uncle. Last time I asked the five fingers question and it seems I stirred the pot with my piss finger. To clarify, error, text missing. Well, I hope that clears it up. Okay, that's classic uncle, funny uncle, funkel. Classic uncle, pull my finger, pull my piss finger. Pull my piss finger.

Starting point is 02:08:04 Anyways, I've got a new question for y'all. Oh my gosh. Pull my piss finger. Pull my piss finger. Anyways, I've got a new question for Yall. Oh my gosh. It's someone else from the deep sea. Yeah, wow. Incredible. But Yall, I think Yall is gaining traction around the world because it's beautifully, what do you call it?

Starting point is 02:08:19 Open. Gender neutral. Gender neutral. That's right. And what do we say? Yars. Maybe sometime. Yus. Yars. Neutral. That's right. And what do we, we say, yas, maybe sometime, yus, sorry. Yus, yas. Yas.

Starting point is 02:08:27 Yas. Yas. That's the Germans. Oh, yas, yas. Oh, yas, yas. Yus. I like yus, but yeah, y'all probably is better. Anyway, what do you,

Starting point is 02:08:39 what do you think is more of in the world? What do you think there is more of in the world? Legs or eyes? Now, as a tradition, I must answer my own question. Do you want to have a go before we, the world? What do you think there is more of in the world? Legs or eyes? Now as a tradition I must answer my own question. Do you want to have a go before we answer? Because you're thinking like spiders, eight legs, but don't they have like shit loads of eyes? Like don't flies have like you know dozens of little, it depends what bit you count. And eyes of needles? Do they count?

Starting point is 02:09:01 Yeah but then legs of chairs. Oh yeah. Then millipedes, you know, they've got like a hundred. Yeah, how many eyes do they have? I think just two. Okay. So I'd probably add a guess and I'm sure we'll get some facts coming up here, but I'd probably guess legs.

Starting point is 02:09:20 Legs? Because of the chairs. There's so many chairs. Yes. And do you count, do they call it stilts like on houses? They legs? legs legs because of the chairs there's so many chairs yes and and you can't they caught this stilts like on houses they legs probably not a stump yeah stumps but stumps are the lack of legs yeah that's right hmm makes you think makes you think what are you thinking that I I and we I mean it it's EYE, it's not like you can't say the eyes. The eyes have it. I, mine's eye. Does that mean everyone's got three eyes?

Starting point is 02:09:52 Oh, OK. Brown eye. If you count the brown eye. You steal bumhole. You add one per person. You know, like Jordan's got a, you know, a rock hard. Well, I guess the around round the eye the bum there Alright oh Ending of a big day potting here today. Yeah, yeah, yeah

Starting point is 02:10:15 Probably can make me tell that Anyway, yeah, I'm doing that and so it sounds like the the Booker of Sittletown's comedy club. The busted nut. And so good. Anyway, as always, I'm ripping off Tony Martin without realizing it. So Simon answers the question saying. But you haven't locked one in. Oh, I'm going to go eyes just to be contrarian.

Starting point is 02:10:44 Oh, fuck you. I think I I'm gonna lock in the eyes there. So now as this tradition I must answer my own question and I'm gonna go with legs. There's lots of insects with lots of legs but fish don't have legs. Oh my gosh, didn't consider fish. There's plenty of fish in the sea. Yeah, they don't have any legs though. And they all have at least two eyes. Three-eyed fish have just had, Blinky's got three.

Starting point is 02:11:08 Yeah, that's right. Maybe chair legs don't count then. But then it says, but there's gotta be more insects than fish, right? But then, like we say, some of them don't have just heaps of eyes, or do they not count as heaps of eyes? Just heaps of lenses or something.

Starting point is 02:11:22 Thanks for indulging me, and as always, thank you for your amazing hard work at being so funny and wholesome. And a special shout out to Big Poppa on a special day. Oh, Big Boppa. We love you Big Poppa. And Big Boppa. I assume.

Starting point is 02:11:38 For a second I'm like, oh, that's a private shout out to someone. He knows it's Big Poppa, but no, it's a shout out to Big Bopper on a special day. Congratulations. Love you all. Love you all. XXOOXXXOO. Thank you so much. It looks like five I's for a fly, five I's for a bee. Okay. But probably more legs. Like what are they six legs? Yeah, how many legs? Fly. Flys have six legs, you're right, the ratio is out. Hmm.

Starting point is 02:12:13 I'll be thinking about that as I go to sleep tonight. Then you've got frogs, you know, and a lot of animals have four legs of course, and two eyes. Yes. Yeah, no, I'm coming around. Are we counting eyes of needles? Yeah. Are there a lot of needles out there. Thank you so much to Simon, Dominic, Jordan and Wes Katie, as everyone calls it. I hope I get to meet Wes Katie someday and she'll say, hey, it's Wes Katie.

Starting point is 02:12:38 I'll say, oh, cool. She'll be like, you said it quite a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Wes Katie. What's up? Yeah, Wes Katie. Yeah, I remember it quite a lot. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Wes Katie, what's up? Yeah, Wes Katie, yeah, I remember. Bring it in. I was in a bit of a caffeine haze. So yeah, I've quit caffeine six days of the week.

Starting point is 02:12:56 On pod day. You go wild. I go hog wild. With like, this one I'm drinking right now, I specifically asked for low caffeine. Yeah, that was quite a long conversation between you and the bristow about that. Yes.

Starting point is 02:13:11 What do you mean low or none? And I'm like, well, can I have like really low and she'd be like, well, that'll really just taste like milk. You'd be better off having decaf and then some coffee flavors. All right, well, give me like a low, not too low. All right, it wasn't that long of a conversation, Dave. Fucking hell.

Starting point is 02:13:24 All right, next thing we do is shout out to a few of our other fantastic supporters. And this is of course on episode 466. Amazing, almost the number of the beast. That's right. Speak It, that was an Adam and Will bit, you know, from their show back in the day. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:13:48 I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this right. Adam had this joke, cause he's like a comedian and maths guy as well. But he did this joke about, made up this band called Salmon Hater, and their hit song, 6.66, is one hundredth of the number of the beast. That's good. And then they got a I believe

Starting point is 02:14:07 they got a CD in the mail so a band just pumped out a song sent it in and ended up making the hottest 100 and stuff. Really? Oh that's great. So it's funny you say that 466 is some percentage of the number of the beast. All right. So, Dave, what do you want to do here? What do we do for the game? Earn Mally poetry hoax. I could say, what about I bring up some earn Mally poetry and I dedicate a line. Yeah, fantastic. So I'll read out the names. I should say in the show notes, as always always there's going to be the sources I used but also

Starting point is 02:14:45 I will link to there's a website that had all of 17 poems. Oh great. So if you want to go through and read a bit of Ernie Mallian make your own mind up. Is it good? Is it bad? Is it a joke? Is it yeah. Is it good? Is it bad? Is it a joke? Is it sad? Oh gosh you're a poet. Thank you. sad. Gosh, you're a poet. Thank you. All right, may I kick us off? Absolutely. Firstly, oh my gosh, from address unknown, return of sender, can only assumed it from within the fortress of the moles, please, and thank you Luca M. Luca M, can I just say, and I must go with stone feet down the stairs of flesh. And I must go with stone feet down the stairs of flesh It like I mean they're taking the piss, but it's funny that they're going. This is nonsense I'm like this sounds like poetry to me. Yeah, it must have been so influential that stuff Yeah, because I like it to me this does I fully buy this is I

Starting point is 02:15:40 Would I would have assumed this is good stuff and that's from sweet William that poem school next up from Lawson Namesake of great Australian writer Henry Lawson am I wrong? Yes, yes, I'm wrong. No, sorry was it was the question Lawson had namesake of Australian poet. Yes Henry Lawson is yes I see man from some river or is he banjo Paterson. Yeah, I get those two confused. Is he the Man from Ironbark? No, that's Banjo Paterson. Is he? All right.

Starting point is 02:16:11 Because I visited his grave actually, obviously as a big fan. I stumbled upon it when we were up in Sydney for the Live Sydney Show. Oh, that's right, because there's a beautiful cemetery up in Sydney. Yeah, right on the beach. It has incredible views of the coast. Malcolm Young's there from ACDC. Was it one of the great early Australian test cricketers was there? Maybe Shane Warne?

Starting point is 02:16:37 No, even earlier than that. He's in Melbourne. I know. It was the first cricket. I wanted to say Merv. Merv Hughes, even earlier? And the, I love a sunburnt country, right? I was buried there as well. What's her name? Merv? Margaret. Maybe Margaret something? Anyway. Dorothy McKellar?

Starting point is 02:16:58 Dorothy McKellar. AKA Margaret to me, but probably only good friends know her as Margaret. Anyway, from Lawson in New South Wales, Australia. That probably almost definitely is named after Marlito. Almost, yes. John Cornell. John Cornell, let me dedicate this to you. The children throw a ball against their future walls. The evening settles down like a brooding bird over streets that divide our life like a trauma.

Starting point is 02:17:26 I mean, again, that sounds good. That does sound good. I feel and I feel like I know what he's saying. That feels vivid. The children throw a ball against their future walls. That's good. That's sick. I think this is good writing. And that's from Sibylleen, which also includes Princess.

Starting point is 02:17:44 It picks up after the opening line. Princess Street. Oh my god, we got another person from Address Unknown. Return of Sendai. Gotta assume deep within the fortress of the moles. Please and thank you, Page. What an appropriate name for an episode about poetry. Page, let me turn the page, Page, so I can find your next line, which is We have lived as ectoplasm. Let me turn the page page so I can find your next line, which is um We have lived as ectoplasm the hand that would clutch our substance finds that his rude touch Runs through him a frightful spasm and hurls him back against the opposite wall I mean, there's a bit of rhyming in there. Yeah, that is um

Starting point is 02:18:21 Colloquy with John Keats. That's called That's that's again good stuff and I like how they've used the wall again there. Yeah. Bit of a motif. Uh, Paige's surname starts with G based on the email address, so in case, uh, Mole Liver Paige doesn't know who she is. Uh, either that or it's a gmail. Or both. So next one comes from Carterton in New Zealand. Thanks, hello and please, Ocky. Do you think it could be

Starting point is 02:18:59 Mark Okalupo? Oh my good, the Ocky? The world champion Australian surfer? Wow, ock-a-loop-o. Well, either way, this is dedicated to you. And in conclusion, there is a moment when the pelvis explodes like a grenade. I, who have lived in the shadow that each act casts on the next, act now emerge as loyal as the thistle, that in session puffs its full seat upon the indicative air. I have split the infinite Beyond does anything I tell you that is way hornier than the other line. Yes, they got done for yeah That's from Petite Testament, which I think I also had one of the other lines in it

Starting point is 02:19:36 That sounds like so no that was when I quoted at the end, but I love that and someone please Comment on my thrusting video on there's. Just quote that. There is a moment when the pelvis explodes like a grenade. That's incredible. That does sound like they're describing someone having a good old thrust. Thank you so much, Ocky. And I thought that was beautifully attributed to Ocky, whose initials seem to be CS. CS Elliot maybe. I'd love to also thank from, oh this is a rare opportunity to use my French in the Patreon section, Bessincombe in France. Please and thank you. Freak theory. Frock, Thor. Frock, Thor.

Starting point is 02:20:28 Freak, Thor. And here is a line from Egyptian register, which I think that that's one of the horny ones because it's got incestuous and self-fructifying death. That's so funny, like the word incestuous. I know. And then the cop had to say, I don't know what that means, but it sounds bad. Yeah. Dictionary has hadn't quite been invented yet. This is a line.

Starting point is 02:20:52 Magic in the vegetable universe marks us at birth upon the ford with the ancient Ankh. Nature has her own green centuries which move through our thin, convex time. That's beautiful. There we learnt in an episode a few not too long ago about the pharaoh Hatti. That ancient Egypt and incestuousness go hand in hand. Oh yeah, that'd be done for obscenity in the 1940s. Next up from Canberra, Australian Capital Territory

Starting point is 02:21:28 Please and thank you to Alyssa miss Alyssa Alyssa. This is for you. Oh, whoa. Whoa, miss Alyssa That's for you. I have been noted in the reading rooms as a borough of calf-bound volumes Full of scandals at the court. My lord had his hand upon that snowy globe. My lady Lucy's sinister breast. Where was that one in the court? My lady? My lady's sinister breast. That feels...

Starting point is 02:21:55 Yeah, they've not read all of it. Yeah, that's from Perspective Love Song. Actually, that's the one that has Princess... No, that's sorry, it's a different one. That's from Cultura's exhibit. Thank you so much, Alyssa. Is that right? That doesn't matter I guess.

Starting point is 02:22:07 Next one comes from Arlington in M.A. in the U.S. A.K. Mouse, I guess, M.A. U.S. I'm gonna say Massachusetts. Oh yeah. Is it? I don't know. Let's look it up. Miami, Massachusetts, Maine. I think it's Massachusetts.

Starting point is 02:22:28 Please and thank you to Sarah from Arlington. Which part of? Arlington, MA. Oh, I thought you were saying that because you said Miami. I was like, what's going on here? It is Massachusetts. Thank you.

Starting point is 02:22:40 Can you read this in a Massachusetts accent? No, what do they sound like? Havid. Havid, yeah. I can't do it. That's definitely you and Jess's domain. All right, you give me, you say it to me, you whisper it and I'll say it. Okay.

Starting point is 02:22:56 I really hope it says the word Harvard. Let me keyword search for Harvard. Imagine. No, imagine. I'm being great. I could feel like it's something that they would reference. What about car yard? Is there any car in here?

Starting point is 02:23:09 No, go on. Just hit us with the one you were thinking, because, you know, you're connecting on it like a spiritual level. The thank ye and the words of earn. Earn. Now we find too late that these distractions were clues to a transposed version of our too rigid state. It is an ancient forgotten ruse and a natural diversion wiser now but dissident. Why is it now I'm like Quimby on a Quimby off the Simpsons is that kind of accent. Supposed to be JFK, yeah. Thank you so much to Sarah and two more, oh my gosh, from Calgary in Alberta in Canada,

Starting point is 02:23:49 home of the Stampede. It's on my bucket list to get to the Calgary Stampede. Awesome. Please, and thank you to André Janeroux. André Janeroux, this is for you from Nightpiece. Among the water lilies a splash, white foam in the dark, and you lay sobbing then upon my trembling intuitive arm. That's beautiful. That's beautiful.

Starting point is 02:24:15 That gives me pause. And finally from Labrador, a beautiful spot. I've stayed in Labrador a few times up on the Gold Coast in Queensland here in Australia. Please and thank you to Amanda Robbemond. This is also a sexy one. I'll finish with a sexy one. I have remembered the chiaroscuro of your naked breasts and loins,

Starting point is 02:24:39 for you were wholly and at- The cop, what was he doing? Like, no. I don't remember the cop, He didn't bother reading it all. Chiaroscuro is, uh, Damien Cowell's disco machine references Chiaroscuro. Oh, there he goes with the light and the dark. Is that what it is? In art?

Starting point is 02:24:54 Mmm, yep. Who are you talking to? I thought you- The Chiaroscuro of your naked breasts and loins. For you were holy and admonition that said, from bright to dark is a brief longing, to hasten is now to delay. But I could not obey. How do you spell Chiarascuro?

Starting point is 02:25:14 C-H-I-A-R-O-S-C-R-O. So C-U-R-O. What's the second part? C-S-C-H-I-A-R-O. What's the second part? C-S-Cara-Scuro. C-S-U-R-O. I've looked it up here. Do you want me to read out the definition? Yeah, what does that mean?

Starting point is 02:25:35 An Italian term which translates as light dark and refers to the balance and pattern of light and shade in a painting or drawing. Okay. Wow. Chiaraoscuro. I think he uses it like in one of his songs as a, the name is a DJ, the world's hottest DJ, Chiaroscuro. That's great. That's fun stuff. That's Chiaroscuro of your naked breasts and loins. That is the sexiest one so far. I can't believe the cop missed that. How funny is it how many Damien Cowell were like, because these people don't know one of the singers in Tism and songwriters, how many references that this episode has brought

Starting point is 02:26:13 up. And I'm like, oh, I know that word. But until now did not really know what it meant. But it's good stuff. Thank you so much to Amanda, Andre, Sarah, Alyssa, Freak, Ocky, Paige, John and Luca. And the last thing we need to do Dave is welcoming a few members into the Triptych Club. We've got three inductees this week. Fantastic. They are being inducted to our Hall of Fame, our nightclub, our Theatre of the Mind, our clubhouse, our honor roll where people who have been supporting the show on three consecutive years or above, they already got a shout out, but now they get inducted into the hall of fame where we welcome them in and once you're in you can never leave and why would you want to and

Starting point is 02:26:51 we'll have a great time together because there's music there's food there's entertainment there's places to relax. I'm so excited to be in here Dave you've booked a band for the after party. We have a party every week when on episode day. So, you know, new inductees get invited in and everyone else who's already in there because I can't leave are still in there. No, yes, you're never going to believe who I've booked this week. Because I think Adam and Will are going to have to dig out those old costumes because I have Sonic Animation who will be performing the hit. You couldn't remember the name of Theophilus Thistler in brackets and exercise in vowels.

Starting point is 02:27:28 That's right and exercise in vowels. I was vaguely near it. Yeah you were, no you were very close but I remember that song from the Theophilus Thistler, Theophilus Thistler. It's very hard to say. Yes. Because I think they literally did get, it was like a vocal warm up. Ah.

Starting point is 02:27:43 I might be misremembering that anyway. But so three inductees this week, I've also got a drink behind the bar and it's called the earn Malley. Unfortunately, it's not what it says it is. It's called a high end

Starting point is 02:27:59 cocktail, but it's actually just Jim Beeman. But your uncle's given you a. Yeah. And he's winking. Well, bro. We've given, I think we, I might walk back some of that stuff. Simon Marr is not a dodgy uncle.

Starting point is 02:28:14 Okay. He's a cool uncle. Cool uncle. Cool uncle. Alright, so three inductees this week, Dave. You are on stage where I'm seeing the night. You're going to be hyping them up using some weak to moderate wordplay based on their name or where they're from. Yeah I guess so yeah. To really make them feel at home. I'm going to read out their name. So if you hear your name

Starting point is 02:28:35 I'll lift a velvet rope, you run on in to the club and let Dave hype the crowd up for you. And then we're all going to hang out and listen to Theophilus Thistler, the Thesaurus Thistler, and party into the night. Alright, so first up from Glasgow in Scotland, it's William Deluxe, it's Wilson Deluxe. Oh my gosh, what can I do with this? It's the Deluxe Wilson! Holy moly. Oh my gosh. The ducks of our times. Deluxe Wilson, aka Wilson Deluxe.

Starting point is 02:29:07 Incredible man. From Peoria in California in the United States, it's Roman. All roads lead to Roman. And finally from Bournemouth in Dorset, I reckon, in Great Britain, it's Daisy Mouse. Oh my god. And exercise in mouse. Yeah. Great Britain, it's Daisy Mouse. Oh my God. An exercise in mouse. Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

Starting point is 02:29:31 Get loud. Get Daisy instead of crazy. Go Daisy. It's Daisy Mouse. But an exercise in mouse is excellent. Welcome into the club, Daisy, Roman and Wilson. Make yourselves at home. I've got the ice hockey air table frosty ready to go. So it hasn't been thawed because I've heard from little Birdie that Jess might be back soon and she's gonna be pretty pissed off when she sees the state of that table. We've currently got two ice hockey air tables.

Starting point is 02:29:59 And are they both icy? Oh yeah. Oh you gotta start thawing one, she's gonna crack the shits when she comes back. Nah. You leave, that's what happens. Yeah exactly. I'm very brave when she's not in. Nah, who cares?

Starting point is 02:30:10 I don't care. I'd say to her face, I wouldn't. Soon she's back. No one tell her I said this please. Welcome in Daisy, Roman and Wilson. Anything we need to tell people before we go? Well basically, we're coming to the most magical time of the year. Oh, that's right. Next week will be the first episode of Blockbuster Toba 2025 where we count down our most voted for, our most popular, our biggest baddest topics of

Starting point is 02:30:34 the year. And this year we're doing two of them live. Yes. Come see them. This is October 5 and 6, 2024. You can see us at Stupid Old Studios. On the Saturday, we're doing a do-go-on followed by a book cheat. And on Sunday, we're doing a do-go-on followed by a who knew it with Matt Stewart, special guests, all sorts of fun stuff planned. And you can watch it in person at Stupid Old, that's in Melbourne, or you can get tickets to watch it live streamed or on catch up with, and like they do it properly at Stupid Old. It's not just one camera, it's a full multi-camera setup.'ll sound good it'll look good it'll taste good. Oh yeah and that that

Starting point is 02:31:09 festival's got Will Anderson on it too. Yeah that's right Will's part of it's part of the um so we're doing our own mini festival within a festival we're calling ours Blockbustertober Live but it's uh part of the Cheerful Earful Festival and uh Sammy P and Confessions are doing it. I saw, yeah, Willosophy, Pop Gaze. Who have I seen other? Nick Cody and Luke Heggie's. Oh, Mid Flight Brawl. We love those guys as well. Which we've gone to cross over with in the past. Yeah, so that's all part of the Cheerful Earful Festival online. Really should have brought that up with Will earlier. We'll be seeing him there. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:31:45 So absolutely. Please get involved if you want to do that. But apart from that, get ready for Block 2025. The next few weeks are going to be big. I'm also I'm going to do a stupid old tour for patrons on during those or before those live shows as well. So if you're a patron, get here a bit earlier. I'm going to give you give you the guided tour of the studio yeah we'll show you all the sights all the sounds I get all the tapes I might even introduce you to Dave

Starting point is 02:32:11 Warnocky oh my gosh we should set it up so you're working at your desk oh hi push-ups yeah sorry I'm really sweaty thousand and four thousand and four doing curls on one arm and push up with the other. The only problem is I don't know if you'd physically be able to do that. But I have to start training now. Just for that one. Yeah, so you can get tickets to our shows

Starting point is 02:32:34 at dogoonpod.com. We'd love to see you there or see it on the stream. It'd be awesome. So good. Well, I think that's all we need to tell people. Please follow us on Instagram and elsewhere, TikTok and whatnot. Do go on pod. I think we're doing on podcast, maybe on TikTok, but you'll figure it out with a quick search.

Starting point is 02:32:51 Yeah. And yeah, Dave, put this baby home. We'll be back next week with Block Bust October 2025. But until then, I'll say thank you so much for listening. And until then, it's goodbye. Later. Because people still like, it's like a running joke. I think people who work at Triple J still get texts saying it's gone downhill since Adam and Will left. Yeah. And I think. But did you did you have that?

Starting point is 02:33:27 Yes. Yeah. Shows before. I think. I. So it was Mikey and Sandman, Paul McDermott, like a whole bunch of different people had done that show Maynard. You know, back in the day, I'm sure Mikey and Helen got calls from, you know, Maynard fans going, yeah, this station's been crap since they got into Maynard, you know? But I was probably the luckiest there's ever been

Starting point is 02:33:50 in that every show being hated by the sort of, you know, the audience of the previous show, because Adam went in and did a year of the Breakfast Show by himself first. And so he was kind of a buffer. I was a regular guest on his show, but I was just doing it from Melbourne. He was in Sydney. And so I had a year of, I guess, like the audience being gradually inoculated to me, you know, introducing a little bit of poison.

Starting point is 02:34:18 Adam's getting all the hate for taking it for a full year. Yeah, but they used to him by the time you're full time. That's right. Like just a little bit of me at the time until I'm fully in your system. And then suddenly I was there all the time. But like introducing the stepdad to the kids. Who's that friend of yours who just comes to fun things and then suddenly, did he sleep with you last night, mum? Hang on, he's been here for three weeks now. So I, yeah, I got that. I was very lucky, but we used to, way before the internet culture really took off as well.

Starting point is 02:34:48 So that idea that you could be constantly, you know, contacted, like people, we answered our own phones. So if you rang the studio, you would get Adam or I most of the time, you know, if we went to the phones on something. And often people didn't know that. So occasionally you would get a little bit of feedback that someone thought they were talking to a producer about us, not realising they were speaking directly to us. You tell that Will, you can tell him right now. Yeah, let's see where this goes for us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, play it cool.

Starting point is 02:35:23 Don't forget to sign up to our tour mailing list so we know where in the world you are and we can come and tell you when we're coming there. this goes for us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, come to you and you also know that we're coming to you. We'll come to you. You come to us. Very good. And we give you a spam free guarantee.

Do Go On - 466 - The Ern Malley Mystery (with Wil Anderson)

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