Dumb People Town - Holly Laurent - Gender Reveal Wildfire

Episode Date: November 30, 2018

Holly Laurent visits the show to discuss the story of a wildfire started by a gender-reveal party!

Dan and Ran and Jay will share Tales of folks so unaware They lack in grace and sometimes choose The life they choose will make the news Breaking down each epic fail In Florida there's half-price bail I'm happy to say they Couldn't make this up

So listen to our podcast Dan with co-host Our man Dan Man, jerk, don't be a jerk Cause when the music hits the funny hits We are gonna take you down Stick around, make a sound On your downies, Dumb People Town

Hey townies, welcome to a Friday episode of Dumb People Town Population you Population Laurent. Laurent. Holly Laurent. How are you? Hi.

So good. How are you? So good. So glad to have you. So happy to have you. Holly Laurent is a writer and a performer. Second City alum. Second City alum, but a performer on this amazing NPR show that we did. It's actually a public radio show.

I'm sorry. Live from here. Live from here. It is the evolution or the new iteration of Prairie Home Companion. That's right. It is music, sketches that are written that you guys do so beautifully, stand-up music. Storytelling.

Jeff Tweedy was on this week's episode. Jeff Tweedy. Dirty Projections were on our episode. Go back and listen to our episode. You are so funny. You did a sketch in our episode about a woman

spring cleaning. What was it? Oh, yeah. Putting away her summer clothes and bringing out her winter clothes. In St. Paul. In St. Paul.

So it was basically about how like wintertime just becomes completely apocalyptic. And you basically became your mom. Yeah. You were just basically

channeling your mom. Where did I put that? What was that Her thing So to get into character As my mom You have to go You know what

It has to begin with that Yeah your mom You know what And that's just her breath Before she begins to speak You know what And we never noticed That she was

But your husband Greg Hess Who has been on the show And is very very funny He started to answer her At the very beginning And you'd be like what And you're like stop Greg Don't do that

Stop That's just her breathing That's her her breathing. Holly, you know what? What's the thing she does? Can you please do one of the things she does about just seamlessly moving from a terrible tragedy to regular stuff?

Greg figured it out. He was like, she's a modern-day prairie woman. She processes tragedy and the mundane on the exact same emotional frequency and she's she loves telling you bad news i don't think she would realize that but it's always like oh how you know what yeah you have to start you know what how did you hear did you hear about don pika you love don you know summer's dad yeah oh he's well okay so this last weekend he's sitting there at his regular saturday card game and you know? His brain slid down the back of his neck, and he might not make it.

Hey, do you feel like some twice-baked potatoes? I might defoss them. And it's like, potato. Well, yeah. Hold on. Wait. Is Don's peacock done? I'm just going to slide those potatoes into the oven.

That's right. I'm just going to slide them in the back Of the oven Because you know They get really I don't want them To fall down Like Don's brain Slid down the back

Of his head And he might not make it But you know what He had a good life He was always out Polishing that black Corvette And they had a pool too So he had a good life

While he was there They had a pool That's the criteria They had a pool So it's okay Which in Southwest Michigan Is decadent Because you get to use it

For like five weeks Five weeks They had a pool So it's okay I mean He had a good life You know what We've got a brown station wagon

And you know what He had a black Corvette So Okay I'll give you another one I'll set you up And then you do the Okay so then you take it To the mundane

I'll give you the check How You know what? Hal, did you hear about your Aunt Lori? No. She was up on a stepstool trying to dust the ceiling fan. And you know what? It turned itself on. It sliced her in the head.

She fell off the stepstool and she died. I'm going to slice up some oranges for you kids. Are you guys hungry? Do you want them sliced up or will you eat them whole? Wait, Lori's dead? Mom, is Aunt Lori dead? Do you want me to peel them or do you want me to up or will you eat them whole? Wait, Lori's dead? Mom, is Aunt Lori dead? Do you want me to peel them or do you want to just... I'll slice it right off for you.

Just, honey, bring the slicer in here. Mom, wait, who's taking care of my cousin Lindsey? You know the slicer we put on the apple and you just push it down and all the... Yeah, it's just one slice you get. You can't do that for an orange. What's happening to Aunt Lori? All right, well, I love that because it is so simple in its silliness. Your mom's not dumb, but that is just a simple and hilarious... I love that because It is so simple In it's silliness Your mom's not dumb

But that is just A simple and hilarious I love it We believe that the world Is getting dumber On this show And our awesome fans Send us great stories

That we all just Kind of break down And Daniel's here How you doing Dan? Good my friend It is nice to have A second city person In the house

Yeah Kind of bringing The family back Telling old stories And let me just mention Like friend of our show Someone who We do tons of stuff

With Brad Morris He recommends you so highly He was like He loves you so much We were like We texted him And said we're hanging with you In St. Paul

When we were there And he's like That's my sister That's my sister We're like really He's like no but yes Yes We started improvising together

In a group called The Reckoning probably 50 years ago. But Brad, it's funny because Brad's the one, we were trying to name our improv group. And so we had like a list of 20 and then it was a 10. We're trying to like name the group, but it's really important.

And it came down to Civil War Land, which is like a George Saunders book. It was between Civil War Land as an improv group name. And Brad came up with, he kept saying reckoning. And everyone's like, I like the reckoning.

He's like, reckoning. And we're like, yeah, the reckoning would be good. And he's like, it's just reckoning. Yeah, like eagles. Or scorpions. And to this day, we love to give him shit

because it's just always been the reckoning from the beginning. And he's always like, it's just the reckoning. So you're like, Brad, yes, we got it. The reckoning. We got it. All right, well, it's time for theckoning. So you're like, Brad, yes, we got it. The Reckoning. We got it.

All right, well, it's time for The Reckoning for some dumb people. Dan, what do we got? Okay, ready? Yes. Sent in by, you know how people

change their handles for Halloween? Yes, I love that. I like this one the best. Sent in by Bill Robinson, but like spooky, at Mr. Bill Robinson. So he just went, imagine that I made it. Imagine I made a spooky Bill Robinson, but like spooky, at Mr. Bill Robinson. So he just went, imagine that I made it.

Imagine I made a spooky Bill Robinson. Sure. I thought you called him Robinson. Oh, that'd be a cool name too. Bill Robinson. Robinson. An off-duty Border Patrol agent was holding a gender reveal celebration. I'm already out.

I'm already out. Wait, hold on. You got to go back. It's a loaded thing, isn't it? Off-duty Border Patrol agent. So a lot of pressure on this person. Right. I'm already out Wait hold on You gotta go back It's a loaded thing isn't it Off duty Border patrol agent So a lot of pressure On this person

Right Was holding a gender reveal celebration So his wife is pregnant Or if it's a woman She's pregnant Oh I thought he was just Gonna do a reveal that Or is it a he

Yeah Okay I thought he was going to reveal That he's transitioning No Yeah that's how I read it. I know, but that's not it. He's going to reveal his true gender.

A gender reveal. That'd be fun, too. Or her true gender. Yeah. That'd be fun, too. Yeah, but I'm talking about this is a gender reveal. Hey, we're having a baby. And they want to have a party because we don't have enough parties to celebrate ourselves.

So this is before the baby even comes. This is like the streaming awards of parties. I take it the two of you, and I'm referring to Jason Randix. Do you have kids, Holly? No. No, yeah. You guys did not do a gender reveal? No.

Of any level? No. We did it to each other. I mean, we... Yeah, no, we didn't have a party. Like, we knew. I knew ahead of time what we were going to have. Right.

I didn't on my first... I still don't know he's 10. Yeah. I don't know. You know what? Don't gender assign. TBD. I said, let's wait.

Let's wait and see The assumption Behind this party Is that people Give a shit Thank you Thank you Like it feels like

They're either so Cause now I feel like the big thing now Is that you don't tell It's a big thing Not to say the name You've chosen Right

Because they just don't Want to hear your thoughts On the name Right They've picked out the name They don't want to hear What you have to say about it Right Why don't you call Zachariah No We don't want to hear your thoughts on the name. They've picked out the name. They don't want to hear what you have to say about it. Why don't you call him Zachariah?

No, we don't want to call him Zachariah. And not even in like an empowering way. In a bad way. Zachariah. That's not his name. What did you say? Thackeray? Did you say?

I said Zachariah, but I like- That's the full name of Thackeray from Hocus Pocus. Zachariah. Zachariah. God damn it. Jesus. I know. It is Halloween coming up. When we're recording.

When we're recording. When we're recording. I want to know if the Border Patrol part is important to this. Well, an off-duty Border Patrol agent was holding a gender reveal celebration for his wife's pregnancy when he accidentally started a wildfire. Would you guys like to guess how many acres he set on fire in a gender reveal party?

Coming to you with an overview to find out how much damage did they do? Okay, Holly, you are a guest. You can go first, Tig, or third. Tig is in between the two of us.

So where do you want to guess? What position? First, Tig, or third? First. Okay, so how many acres? How many acres do you think? 20,000. 20,000 acres.

That's unbelievable. And it's all pink smoke. It's a girl. That big enough for you, honey? You wanted to have this stupid party? and it's all pink smoke. It's a girl. He looks over. That big enough for you, honey? You wanted to have a stupid party. Or maybe he did. And she was like,

now you're glad, Greg? Greg, see what we did? See what you did? Right. I'm going to say 200 acres. 200 acres. That's a lot of acreage. I'm going to say 1,000 acres.

1,000 acres. 20,000 acres. All right. Okay. She wants this fire to be big. He accidentally started a 47,000 acre. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Where? For a party that didn't need to happen. Let's all congratulate him. Congratulations, Holly. Thank you. For a party that didn't need to happen.

For a party that didn't need to happen. We did not have to have this party. 47,000 acre fire Oh my What was the gender? Mixed Whatever it is, it's on fire Thank you Hello

The inc... Where was I? Jesus What state is this in? This is on the border This is one of our southern states Texas, New Mexico. The incident will cost Dennis Dickey a hefty thumb and restitution after he pleaded guilty Friday in federal court to a misdemeanor charge of causing a fire without a permit.

Yeah. Yeah. I know. He probably shot up a flare. I'm thinking about torching 47,000 acres. What do I need to do Sign a permit Oh that feels like

A lot of paperwork I'm just gonna start that fight Nearly Go ahead I wonder if it's related To the party Was he trying to do Sparklers

Yes Was he trying to do Or was he just smoking Because he Wants to smoke Before the baby gets here Cigars Cigars

Because the gender No it had to do with How the reveal Was gonna be placed. Shot a flare, a pink flare or a blue flare. Nearly 800 firefighters from various agencies battled the sawmill fire for about a week in April 2017 at a cost of about $8.2 million. What? Oh, my God.

I will say this, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, totally worth it. How much pressure is that on your kid to be like, you need to become something. You need to give back. 8.2 million, you're not even out the game. Do you know what you have to give back to this community in this world? You have to plant a fucking four-size garden. And what's his fee? He's a border patrol.

He doesn't have any money. The wildfire began when Dickie shot a target that contained a tannerite, an explosive substance designed to detonate when shot by a high-velocity firearm. Yep. So he had like a... More guns, by the way. He had a target thing set up,

and when he shot it, it would explode and reveal the color of whatever gender. Yes, yes. The explosion was caught on film by a witness. Because why else would you blow something else up? You have to catch it on film. Got to. That's got to go on.

Do you have the video of it? I don't. Hey, man, that's got to go on Facebook. Yeah, can you do one of them boomerang things so you can see it go back and forth? Hey, man. Yeah, I just want to see us right before we had wild life in our state and then right after.

Back out the gun. You know that he's being worked into the handbook, too, of like, you are border patrol agents Now you may be saying Well how much effect can I have On the border A lot If you're Mr. Dickey

You can affect about 47,000 acres Dennis Dickey Double D He has a friend That only calls him that when the friend is drunk. Yeah. Hey, D.D., D.D., get me another. D.D.

And that's when they end up going to get sick. You know I got to get some smokes, dude. I get this man and we got to get some smokes. D.D. D.D., come over here and blow me just a little. What? Just for like a minute. What?

I don't even want to. I just want to know what it is. Hang on a minute. Feels like Tannerite is a legal compound That has been linked to wildfires In several other western states Dummy

Maybe we need to regulate A little bit of the Tannerite Yeah How about that? I'm going to ask you guys No, no big government The Tannerite lobby is huge Tannerite lobby is huge

Yeah Don't come for our Tannerite We don't want big government You can take my Tannerite From my scorched dead hand Yeah, why don't you look up In the constitution Tannerite We don't want big government You can take my Tannerite From my scorched Dead hand Yeah why don't you Look up in the constitution Tannerite's protected

Thank you The explosive target Was part of a celebration Of his wife's pregnancy And contained colored powder To show the gender Of their baby Blue for a boy

Pink for a girl Is it blue for a boy And pink for a girl Thanks for including that In the article How about green and yellow Yeah How about black and yellow

Black and yellow Black and yellow Nope Yeah. How about black and yellow, black and yellow, black and yellow? Nope. Dennis Dickey's attorney, Sean Chapman, told all this to the Arizona Daily Star. Sean Chapman is the type of guy who wears a suit but no tie. Sean Chapman is the kind of guy who always, before he speaks, should drink water, never does. He's swallowing a lot on the microphone. Sean Chapman is that guy Who's got three bottles

Of binaca He says You like these cufflinks Got them from my dad Took them out of the casket Sean Chapman Tells you how many miles He gets to the gallon

On his Ford Taurus Sean Chapman Has gone down on a woman Exactly once By mistake And said nailed it at the end. Said nailed it and hated it. Hated every minute of it.

Said not doing that again. That's not enough of that. Sean Chapman said, how's this helping me? Sean Chapman would like to tell you, the bar passed me on his business cards. And he does have a few novelty neckties. Holidays. Light up Christmas tree. Sean went on to say,

Dickie immediately reported the fire to law enforcement, cooperated, and admitted that he started the fire. No shit. You're on film doing it. Dummy. You get that on film? Yep. All right.

I got that. I got the confession out of him guys alright I'm gonna ask you guys what is the total amount in restitution that you think he's gonna have to pay

okay so it caused 8 million dollars 8.2 million dollars 47,000 acres no no it caused 8.2 million dollars of manpower to put it out

probably that's not the damage that's just what it cost in terms of firefighters so what is his restitution and Holly you're right. He doesn't have a huge salary,

so how's he going to pay it off? What do you think it is? You want to go first, Tig, or third? I'll go first. Okay. I think he had to pay $79,000. $79,000. Jason or Randy? Jay? I'm going to say that it's $150,000.

$150,000? Okay. Yeah, I feel like there's a lot. I'm going to say $189,000. $189,000. I kind of went on the nine tip from Holly. Nothing wrong with that. $180,000. She's 1-0. Dennis Dickey is going to have to pay a total amount of $220,000.

Oh, wow. Thank you. Thank you. Nicely done. $220,000. Under his plea agreement, Dickey will pay $100,000. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Nicely done. $220,000. Under his plea agreement, Dickie will pay $100,000 in restitution

when he is sentenced October 9th and another $120,000 Where's he going to get it? in monthly installments He's going to have $500 for the next 20 years. What if he's sponsored

by Gerber? And they're like, great stuff. We love how much you care about celebrating babies. Y'all, we're working at Gerber? And they're like, great stuff. We love how much you care about celebrating babies. Y'all, we're working at Gerber now. Right. He just needs to get sponsored.

Y'all get a sponsor from Gerber. Dickie was also sentenced to five years of probation. Quote, it was a complete accident. Accident. Accident. By the way, it wasn't a complete accident. No. No.

It was a gone wrong plan. It was a mistake. A mistake riddled plan that ultimately what happened was what could have happened that everybody could see. An accident is like, holy shit, I didn't see that coming. An accident is like, whoops, I dropped this acid on this paper. It's not like, well, that went the way I hoped it wouldn't. That's an accident. It's not a,'m gonna shoot this thing

And have it blow up Next to a field That could catch fire Yeah like a dry Arizona Like tumbleweed forest That's not an accident Yeah do we know

The state yet Yeah Arizona It was a complete accident He told the magistrate Judge Leslie A. Bones It's not a complete accident You're a complete accident Like you shouldn't be allowed

To vape in Arizona Like there should be Absolutely zero heat Coming from anything, anywhere. You choose to live in Arizona, it's like, yeah, you got to do it underwater. Give up your ability to do it a different way. Quote, I feel absolutely horrible about it. It was probably one of the worst days of my life. Which makes me hope that someday this son or daughter goes,

Dad, tell me about the day you found out I was going to be a boy or a girl. You're a disgrace. You are one of the worst memories of my life. I love that he can't even say with certainty that burning 47,000 acres and causing $8.2 million worth of damage on something that he shouldn't have done wasn't the worst thing. Why put a ceiling on your dreams? Probably.

Or your failures. So let me get this straight. Let me get this straight. He didn't know what it was going to be. No. Somebody else filled the... So he was shooting to find out, essentially. Right, right, right.

His wife knew, or the doctor knew. Somebody knew, yeah. Somebody knew. Somebody went and got the information from the doctor, then they said it. They didn't know, and it was like this great moment of revelation, and then, oh, my God.

Did he hit it? Did he hit the target? Oh, yeah. Yeah, and it was like this great moment of revelation, and then, oh, my God. Did he hit it? Did he hit the target? Oh, yeah. Yeah, and it exploded, and then a spark hit. On the first try? We don't know. We don't know. Hopefully the third.

I bet he had to do it a lot. It's like shooting skeet, right? It's like getting his wife pregnant. Could have been. He missed the first two. I definitely hope that child 100% transitions. Oh, my God. That would be the greatest.

That would be the greatest. It was all for nothing. That would be the greatest. That would be the single greatest postscript to any story we've ever done on this podcast. Hey, Dad, can we talk? Yeah. Sure, son. Well, let's start there.

I'm about to burn 47,000 acres of your personality. I mean this from the bottom of my heart. If I found out that was true, I would start crying tears of joy. Tears of joy. Like enough tears they could put out 47,000 acres. Listen, setting the fire was not a willful act, which meant that Dickie couldn't be charged with arson. How is it not a willful act? Because his goal wasn't to light a fire.

You dance with the devil. It's willful stupidity. Well, listen to this. At the time Dickie shot the explosive target, winds were gusting up to 40 miles per hour. Oh, my God. Because, you know, right before the fire started, he yelled, I hit it in the wind. Hit that wind. I still hit that motherfucker.

That turned out to be a bad omen. Hey, Dickie, there's a little smoke coming up over there. Yeah, I bet. It's a little windy. I hit it, though. Hey, Dickie, they know you hit it. Dickie, let's Hey, Dickie, there's a little smoke coming up over there. Yeah, I bet. It's a little windy. I hit it, though. Hey, Dickie, they know you hit it. Dickie, let's run, Dickie.

Maybe there's another way we can do this right now. The winds are at 40 miles an hour. How about a dart on a water hole? I mean, out at a thing, you know, like, if it's a five mile an hour wind,

someone should be like, hey, let's... How many people were at the party? 640. No, I have no idea. Three. I'm going to say 12. So at the time he shot the explosive target Winds were gusting up to 40 miles per hour

You have to find the video of this The National Weather Service had issued a fire watch Chuck Wonder W-O-N-D-R Chuck Wonder You know what Chuck Wonder loves to do? Go down on a woman. He can't get enough.

Chuck Wonder? Chuck Wonder. Chuck Wonder on a first date just drops to his knees. He's been in an on-again, off-again relationship, which is just him eating her out and going back to his house. He's like, girl, that's not going to eat itself, honey. Come on over. Come on. He is chief of the Green Valley Fire Department.

He told the Arizona Daily Star in May of 2017. Wow. A fire watch is a red flag warning that conditions are ideal for wildland fire combustion and that there is a potential for rapid spread, Wunder said. Yep. No injuries were reported from the fire and no buildings were destroyed, but some households in the Greaterville and Singing Valley. Speaking of rapid spread,

that's what Chuck Wander gets women to do at all. Rapid spread. Rapid spread. They were evacuated. At times, hundreds of homeowners were under pre-evacuation orders.

Wait, a nearby town is called Greaterville? I know, I didn't want to skip over that either. And Singing Valley. Singing Valley and Greaterville. Singing?

Yeah. Singing Valley and Greaterville. Singing? Yeah. Singing Valley and Greaterville. Greaterville. The Greater Greaterville area. Oh, jeez. That's our mini story. Wow. So look at, for the first 20 years of this kid's life, he's paying $500 a month when

he could have just said to the doctor, just tell us. No private school for you, Junior. It's a car payment, man. Oh, I know. A nice car payment. A nice car payment. I wish if it was a girl, he still called it Junior. No matter what.

We need to do that more. Name daughters after mothers and make it Juniors. Yeah, like Laura Kensington III. Yeah. Right? That works. Absolutely. Can we do that?

Barbara Jones II. Why not? I do. That does drive me insane that the babies are named after them. Holly Laurent. It makes no sense. Holly Laurent Jr. That would be so great. Hey, Jr., get over here. Hey, Jr., get over here.

Help your mother out, Jr. I would love it. There have been times recently where I'm taking to calling my four-and-a-half-year-old daughter Mama Jo. I just do it because I kind of want to see what it does, and she thinks it's the funniest thing in the world. You ready to go, Mama Jo?

She's like, Mama Jo. And I'm like, yep, that's what we're going with. Come on, girl. Let's go, Mama Jo. Let's saddle up this pony, Mama Jo. It's really fun to do. I hope she starts singing like Mama Cass. That would be so great.

Yeah. Bring it on home. That would be so great. Yeah. Bring it on home. That's a mini-gap. Holy smokes there. Happy Friday, everybody. Follow this lady on the Twitters. You are? On Twitter, I'm Laurent Holly.

L-A-U-R-E-N-T. If you want to do it and sound like you're French, you can call her Laurent. Laurent. Laurent, but it's Laurent Holly and on Instagram. It's, you can call her Laurent. Laurent. Laurent. But it's Laurent, Holly, and on Instagram. It's opposite. It's Holly Laurent. Holly Laurent. Follow. She's a great follow. Listen to her. She is

hilarious and fantastic on Live From Here. You can go to livefromhere.org and catch up on old episodes, including ours, where she did a hilarious sketch. Yours was so funny. We want to come back and do it again. Hopefully this season we'll get to come back and hang with you guys. I'm going to, or in the new year. Yeah, really be ringing Tom's bell. Yeah, we're going to do it. We're going to do it again. Hopefully this season we'll get to come back and hang with you guys or in the new year. Yeah, really, really be ringing Tom's bell.

Yeah, we're going to do it. We're going to do it because it was just a blast hanging out with you and thank you for doing this and we'll have you back. How about that? So many bits.

So many bits and oh shit, we got to get back to work. Okay, bye. Bye. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb