Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 341: Dr. Drew

Episode Date: June 16, 2019

Dr. Drew, host of Dr. Drew After Dark, homelessness advocate, and all-around brilliant human being, joins the DTFH! This episode is brought to you by Instacart ($10 off your first order when you use code DUNCAN at checkout). This episode is also brought to you by Manscaped (20% off, FREE shipping, and a FREE travel bag when you use code DUNCAN at checkout).

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And I'm really, really excited about it. And I'm also excited about today's amazing podcast with the brilliant Dr. Drew. We're going to jump right into that. But first, some quick business. This episode of the DTFH is brought to you by the glorious sweeties over at instacart.com. I wish I'd spent more time at the grocery store.

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A lot of mashed potatoes. Thanks, Instacart. I'm gonna be honest with y'all. This isn't me. I've actually been in prison in Supermax with Julian Assange. This is just an AI recreating my voice, and I'm gonna be the new host of the Duggar Tressel Family Hour podcast.

It's gonna sound like me. It'll seem like me, but it's not me because I've been disappeared. That doesn't mean that you can enjoy the DTFH Patreon, which is located over at patreon.com forward slash DTFH. You can find commercial free episodes of the DTFH, get access to our Discord server and enjoy monthly, hour-long, rambling blasts

out of the mouth of the artificial intelligence perfectly imitating the former host of the DTFH, Duncan Tressel. It's all there for you over at patreon.com forward slash DTFH. We also have a wonderful shop with lots of t-shirts and posters and stickers, just waiting for you. And now, without further ado, please welcome world-famous doctor,

current host of the brilliant podcast, Dr. Drew After Dark, homelessness advocate and all-around brilliant human being, the wonderful Dr. Drew. ["Welcome to You"] Dr. Drew, welcome back. Thank you so much. Such a pleasure.

Do you remember the last time we were talking, we had a podcast, I think it was the last time, we had this great conversation about marijuana being legalized, and it was just starting to get legal. Yeah, yeah. Now, not only are we seeing marijuana getting legal, I'm so sorry.

It's all right. We're gonna look at mushrooms legal soon too, and maybe acid and other things. That's it, yeah. And I just wanna know what your thought is on this. I hope I said it, I imagine I said the same thing, I don't remember, but that I've always thought, you remember I said this, I'm sure I said it,

that it's been insane that the government made molecules evil. That's so fucking insane. That they put cannabis and heroin and LSD and mushrooms and even, these are evil molecules, human hand should never touch. When in fact, they are just molecules that will probably have significant therapeutic value

once we do the proper research, and I'm really excited about it. I bet. And already we know end of life, it has really potential very, very significant uses. That's right, that's one of my, when I realized that is how your mind works, like what a true scientist you are,

how you just want the research, and you're- Just wanna help people. That's so cool. I love that. And I've been sort of doing this weird experiment where I asked my Uber driver, not that kind, where I asked my Uber drivers

huge questions, and I've gotten the coolest answers from them. Not that you wouldn't, but I've gotten profound answers. One of them, because a thing that tends to be coming up a lot in LA is this massive homeless population that continues to grow.

We haven't talked about this, but I'm overcome with that. It's all I talk about every day. Really? Oh, it has consumed me. What are your thoughts on it? Well, here's why I, last summer,

seriously, I have my evolution to this. I've always been bothered by it. I always thought it was ridiculous. I just thought we should do something about it, but I understood why the forces that prevented us from actually helping these people, and I'll explain that later. But last summer, when I saw the rat explosion,

I went, oh my God, I practiced here for 30 years. I know what happens when the rats explode. We get typhus. Right. And we had a huge typhus outbreak. Right. And I was predicting it.

I was talking about it on the radio. I kept telling everybody it's coming. Then the city kind of denied it. Yep. It was unbelievable to me. We had a massive outbreak. It was a dangerous illness. Typhus wiped out the French army,

killed people in concentration camps, and Frank died of typhus, for God's sake. So it was, I'd seen it for, my whole career I've dealt with typhus. It's a serious problem. My son had it, so they claim nothing. How did your son get it? From rats, from fleas, like anybody else.

In LA? Yes. It's pasted in it. It's been endemic there forever. So I knew when the rat thing came, it was gonna go all over the place. So it did. And then I thought, oh geez.

Okay, they're not doing anything about the rats. It's getting worse. The sanitation is breaking down. Then we had the runoff of all that, of all the sanitation, terrible, terrible sanitation problems, ran off during the rains. Yeah. The dolphins and sea lions died.

Of typhus? We don't know what. They've not yet disclosed exactly, but something that's coming off. Then I thought, oh my God. Okay, we got typhus. And typhus, the natural reservoir, is the possums and the raccoons in Southern California,

in the foothills. That's why we always have it in Pasadena. Then I started to think, oh my God, they're not doing anything about it. So the rats are continuing to grow, continue to explode. The squirrels have plague. The plague's gonna get out of the rats

and we're gonna have plague next, bubonic plague. The squirrels in LA already have it. The last plague outbreak was in Los Angeles in the 1920s. And through some very clever maneuvers, they prevented a massive outbreak. But everyone that came in contact with this one guy died within like four days. And so it's coming.

That's coming. Wait, that outbreak, someone brought it here from? No, it's in the feral animals. It normally is just sort of on the fleas. Okay, I see. And when the rats explode, it gets under the rats, it gets under our pets, and it's on, it's on.

It's coming. So I knew that was coming. And then tuberculosis started to go like six months ago. And I thought, oh my God. We have tuberculosis. We have non-tuberculosis AFB. We have all the rodent and flea-borne illness.

And then typhoid fever broke out. And do you know that? That seven policemen got typhoid fever. And I thought, oh God. A thousand homeless people have died so far this year, just lying in the streets through the reckless negligence of our government. And I thought that thousand could go to 10,000 in an instant.

And then they're suboptimally immunized. We have measles starting to come out. This is a population that could easily get measles and could tear through there. So I am from a physician standpoint, I have been apoplectic. I've been beside myself. I've been talking about it.

Talking about this is like a serious thing. I feel like I'm standing on the railroad tracks, waving at the trains and the bridges out, bridges out, you guys. And the engineers flipping me off. That's what it feels like. So now I've got a little more aggressive because I see it starting to come.

And you see it, right? You see it. People are, there are tarps with people underneath them in the streets. Who are dead. Dead. Our government does not seem to give one shit. It's the people that are in danger

have mental health problems. These are, and the city just keeps saying it's a housing problem. They're not willing to deal with the mental health issue. What are the, do you know the statistics on people who are experiencing mental health issues versus people who are experiencing like addiction? I mean, I know it's kind of.

The addiction is very high, very high. Is it higher than mental health? Yes. Yes. And because we don't enforce any drug laws in this state anymore, people just come here to do practice their addiction. And okay, but give them a place that's safe to do that.

Don't, not the streets, but they love the streets. They love the life. They don't want to come in. They don't want to come off the street. This is actually something, Emmanuel Sifarios, who is the creator of DanceSafe, the people who used to test drugs at RAVE status. You don't want decriminalization

because decriminalization is just deregulation. Decriminalization means people could do it. They're not going to get arrested, but there's no, I don't know if you probably don't, but if you've ever ordered marijuana in LA, now you get a child-proof package that not only has like the amount of THC in the marijuana, the type of marijuana.

It's properly regulated, yeah. Yeah, with a nice chart telling you what the, literally the sort of like shape of the high, like when it's good. So it's. I'm going to try this one of these days. Just ordering it is an interesting experience. It's always been bad.

Pat's always been bad to me, but I figured there's got to be some version that it works for. Yeah. Well, it's evolving and getting better. But, and so that's what happens when you have a regulation. But now we've got this deregulated, drug-addicted, homeless population that are.

And they're going to die. They're going to die. That's committing them to death. That's it, period. So, what do you do? So this is getting, here's what you do. It's very simple. People go, it's so complicated.

Yeah. You expand the definition of gravely disabled to include unable to attend to your medical needs or your housing needs. You expand conservatorships so people can get the care. So somebody case manages them. The LA mission could put up a tent, tents that would house 20,000 heated air conditioning

with wrap-around services immediately at $1,000 ahead, excuse me, $10,000 ahead. The city wants to do it for $500,000 per unit. What? That's the current cost per unit. It's so out of control, you can't even imagine. They need to be medically dealt with. They need to be psychiatrically dealt with.

And then something needs to be done to help motivate the addicts to either get better or get on some sort of medication assisted treatment or something structured where they're not dying of their disease and they're not on the streets. This brings us to a question I've been wanting to ask you, which is because of that cost,

and I know the $500,000 price is insane, but if you wanna take someone who is a late stage addict of any type and rehabilitate them, it's not gonna be cheap if you really wanna do it. And if you don't really do it, what's the point? Well, now there are ways of doing medication assisted treatments that are scalable, that are manageable. It's not what I would wanna do for you

if you got severely addicted. I'd want you to be returned to a flourishing, complete existence. I want these people not to die and get off the streets. And so medication assisted treatment is perfect. So they do have, what kind of medication do you- Suboxone, methadone, this kind of stuff. Oh, I see what you're saying.

What is your opinion on the stuff they're doing in Amsterdam or the places where they've just accepted the fact they have a- I don't have a problem with that, but you see what happens. This is sort of that, right? If we did it in a structured way, where we had attendants and nurses

and gave them their heroin and whatever, and had somebody trying to motivate them to get better and working with their issues and things, that's fine. I don't have a problem with that. That's great. To me, that seems like the- But that's expensive too, right? Well, what is it?

That's what you do with it. That's what the elimination would do, I'm sure of it. That they'd put big units together people and try to get them motivated to get well. What's more expensive, not treating the situation as it is by just admitting- What's happening, as it is, this is a breakdown of civilization.

This is the first city in 800 years that has decided they don't need to attend to sanitation or rodents. Think about that, 800 years. Wow. That's how negligent our representatives are. What's wrong with them? It doesn't make any sense.

It doesn't make any sense. They're scared of the ACLU. They're scared of these lawsuits that are coming their way. When anybody tries to do anything with the homeless, they're not leaders. They gotta lead, they gotta lead. Right.

And it's scary and it's uncomfortable and they have to know what they're doing. They don't know what they're doing. I keep wondering, is it some kind of bullshit what the Buddhist teacher I like, Chogyam Trumpa calls it idiot compassion? Yes. That's what it is.

Yes. So it's like, oh, we're going- These are just noble, homeless people that would rather live out on the streets. Oh, Jesus. Who are you to say? And don't touch their stuff. That's their stuff.

Because they're rolling their feces up in the little acclamation characters. What's their stuff? Oh my God. That's so cool to know that other people in LA are interested in my favorite art form. I thought it was a Go-Dead. You know, it's my craft.

I use natural substrates to produce my beautiful figurines. Okay, that's a good thing to know, number one, that you're angry about it. I'm not saying I'm obsessed with it because we have to get on this and we have to get on quick because it's going to be a human catastrophe. And I can't live with that.

I can't. It just makes me crazy as a doctor. And what, just as someone who lives in Los Angeles, there seems something so incredibly tragic about being in an incredibly wealthy city that must have the resources- Think about this. We have absorbed, just apparently this year,

300,000 undocumented immigrants. They've all found housing at jobs. Right. So did those people push all the people onto the streets? Or are we just being dishonest about this being a housing problem? Right. People without a country, without a home, without a job

got here and managed to figure it out. Yeah. The reality is it's a mental health problem. Gotcha. And that's why these people are on the streets. Do you know of any organizations or places people listening you might want to help out? Okay.

The only mission, go to the only mission. They're great. Okay. But the city and the county will not do business with them because they're a religious organization. What? Yeah. There's something out here.

My next thing is to go to the federal government. I swear to God. I'm there with you. If you come with me, yeah. How humiliating for- Too bad. I don't care. I'm a Democrat.

I'm happy to have these people change direction. Yeah. Garcidia, I'm sure is a nice guy. Yeah. They care of Los Angeles. They're failing us. They're killing people. Right.

They must stop. They must stop. I've got the bush of a married man. Bush of a married man. Bush of a married man. Oh, no. Smalls they smelled like dumpster ham. Like dumpster ham.

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with the code Duncan at manscape.com. They've got everything you need from crop preserver, an anti-chafing ball deodorant and moisturizer. Now, this is the next question I have for you. You think there is ever gonna be a cure for addiction outside of Suboxone and the normal therapies? There will never be a pill that cures addiction.

It's too complicated. It's a wiring problem and a lot of it gets kicked off by trauma. So there will never be a pill for trauma and then the progression that occurs across an addiction where people lose control, their prefrontal cortex doesn't work very well, the wiring and the reward system alters.

There's multiple systems that are enlisted that are sort of a wiring nature and also within the cell problem. It's not like just a receptor on the surface of the cell will find some medicine to hit the surface receptor like high blood pressure or heart cardiac rhythms or something like that. No, there will be things that will be helpful.

But ultimately, the way I think about addiction is it's an interpersonal disease and it has an interpersonal solution. Gotcha. Brains heal other brains from complex mental health issues. Oh, oh, right. Okay, that thing there is a brain and treatment device

that they do based on some stuff that came from mental hospitals when they were using strobe lights to let calm people down. Crazy. So I guess our brains, and I'm sure you know more about this than I do, the human brain has this amazing ability

to tune in to other people around it and what's that called? Mere neurons. Well, I think that's oversimplification. I'm not even sure it's our brain. It might be our bodies that are tuning to other bodies because we have these complex webs of autonomic material over our neck,

our chest, our heart, our pelvis. These are huge little brains in our body. And I can only tell you as having been the object of a therapeutic intervention and then helped other people in the setting of carefully listening and attuning to somebody, I feel like I listen with my whole body. Whoa, you're blowing my mind.

I just actually was looking at a Zen quote where someone said, listen with your whole body. Yeah, because my ears goes without saying, but when you listen with your body, your body picks up on things. You'll hear things, smell things, feel things, and then you have to think, am I actually in pain

or is that Duncan's pain that I'm picking up on? And then I'll think, oh, that's not mine. It doesn't belong to me. I wonder what that means to Duncan. And I'll go, well, Duncan, I'm having a funny thing. It's I'm feeling a pain over here, my left upper chest and the back here. And oftentimes patients will go,

oh yeah, that's where my dad used to kick me on as a kid. Anyway, so it's so weird when you're in it with them, even though you'll be saying something profound, they'll just go right on. Like, yeah, yeah, that's where my dad kicked me, of course. Anyway, let me tell you more about. That, what do you think that is when people skip over sort of anomalous moments?

It's being, it's a little bit narcissistic, right? It's like, yes, of course, you're, it's my person. We all know that because it's me. But the other thing, when you co-create something deep and you're in it with a person, you're just in it. And so they're not objective, you know what I mean? They're not stepping outside of it, they're in it. And I like that because it tells me they're in it.

Okay, that's cool. And that's good therapy, right? That's what's happening with good therapy. And you were saying you were the object. Yeah, I did, yeah, I had 11 years of therapy. But was this, have you ever been addicted to anything? Did this have any? None of my brain doesn't do that, no.

Wow. Yeah, I know, like I hate opiates that make me feel terrible. I used to love them, then I just, I don't know, happen. Good. They're right. Count your blessings. No, I know, when we had the podcast I mentioned to you,

man, I really kind of like like it in and then, but you really helped me because you said, let me explain. Where this goes. What happens, you know? But not in the like, usual way of like, he'll be in jail, it was the thing about a switch clicking into the brain and then it's over after that.

It's done. So do you, so you don't lend much credence to the stuff coming out about Ibogaine therapy? No, I don't know because we don't have the research yet. Now I had many patients over the years go down and go down to wherever and get it and do it. And what I observed was the following over and over and over again, I probably had 20 patients do it.

They stopped using heroin for six months and then they started again, right? Every single one. No, save one, save one. And it made me think that that one was probably not a drug addict because there's so much opiates being consumed now that what we're seeing is something we never used to see, which is opiate dependent,

non-addicted patients. Wow. Because addiction is the disease when you start, you can't stop, you keep going back. Well, dependency is once you get out of it, you're like, ugh, get me out of this, but you can look like an addict when you're dependent. So I think that one guy was drug dependent, not addicted.

I got you. The others just went back and the problem I had with it, that's no big deal to me, great, you got six months of sobriety, maybe we'll put some more together. They all had real personality changes and that was very, I just can't abide by that. If we're changing the personhood,

the personality and the personality features, that's profound and now many of them that kind of went away, but some of them it didn't. You're talking about a negative change then. No, don't, you're putting a value to think about that. You're putting a value judgment on changing the person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, I can't do that.

Changing the person is a profound thing, period, good or bad, right? Yeah. A chemical changed the person now, but changed them from a serial killer to a saint. Well, I can judge that, I guess, but that's not, we're talking about the drug addict, normal person who's not the same person.

Do you identify with any religion? Not strongly. Okay. Are you, one of the things that, you know, Christian existentialism is so bad-ass because it's sort of like somehow the woo-woo stuff goes away and it's just breaking down the kind of- Jordan Peterson does some of that stuff, really,

when you get right down to it. Some of the Kierkegaard stuff. Well, he's the Jungian stuff and those- Yeah. Yeah. Your interview of his, I was still one of my favorite interview of his. Thank you.

Yeah. So the brothers Karamazov, Dostoevsky, Christian existentialist. That's Yvonne's, the grand inquisitor. Yeah. Yes. That's right. Yeah, that's profound.

Yeah. As most like, I guess a lot, many existentialists have this real fixation on freedom and autonomy and what it means. And so, Dostoevsky was talking about Paul's conversion. You know that story on the road to Damascus? Which, a seizure, but whatever. Well, that's, you are falling in line

with what Dostoevsky, he didn't say seizure, but basically what he said is, okay, what happened there? Let's just imagine he saw Jesus. Yeah. Jesus touched him and converted him through some mystical potency. Who cares then? What difference does it fucking make?

It's just some kind of like alien thing, scanning your brain and turning you into a different. You're not you anymore. Maybe it's even, you could call it a type of murder. Who you were is going to extend. It is, right? Yeah. And that concerns me.

So the other alternative that Dostoevsky talks about is, or Saul was sick of being a piece of shit. This isn't my words, not his words. And suddenly thought, oh, this is a good excuse to become a better person. And using that event as a kind of launch pad, started making the series of decisions that transformed his life based on his own free will.

And that, of course, is the preferable thing if we don't want to just succumb to the notion that like some people have the behaviorists that we're all just machines. We're not all but just machines. We don't think we are. What else are we? Do you think so?

No, but I- We're in the simulation, but we're not all machines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not just, but some people do see, this is to me what is so fascinating about addiction, is that it turns a person into a non-player character. It turns a person into a locked-in scene. It turns into a person with one motivation.

Now, what's interesting to me is that motivation takes over all those other wonderful features that our brains have. Emotions, thinking, everything gets infected by this motivation that's distorted. Rather than survival, it becomes used drugs. And so loving your spouse, taking care of your kids, going to work, those priorities just shrink away

and are not important. They're lost, so they just become things that service this one priority, get drugs. Right. And it's not even a thought. They're not thinking get drug, get drugs, get drugs. It's just, they think things like, and you get into it with them,

they'll always have this kind of thing. They'll be like, I gotta, you know, I've been sober three months now. You know, I need to go back and empty out my apartment. It's like, your apartment, that's where your dealer lives. It's like, yeah, yeah, I know, but I gotta get my shit. It's okay, I'll bring my sponsor with me

and it'll be fine. I'll go to a meeting there in San Francisco when I get there and I'll just empty out my apartment. No big deal. That's the disease going, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go to your apartment, go to your apartment, go to your apartment. Jesus. Those people always are using by the end of the day.

That is so fucked up. Yeah, because the brain's, the motivational system is using all every reason and motions and everything else. So you get to see how everything else works under a singular motivation. Wow. It's fascinating. It's the most fascinating.

To me, it is the, of all the- It's funny too. How do you mean? They're so, they're funny. Addicts are funny. The stuff they try to pull to me is just total hysterical. That's cool. That's the thing that I've realized about you

is that you have a real deep, compassionate love for these people that doesn't seem sanctimonious. No, no, no. That's real, real world and like- Cause I see where they go, I see what they can be and I know, and I have faith for all of them, you know, potential hope for all of them. My own addictive qualities, like with my phone

and how what you're talking about just reminds me of every single time I go on a phone bender and rationalize it by thinking, well, you know, my job's a podcast. I need to have a social media imprint. And it's like, I'm not doing anything except looking at Reddit conspiracy. Ha, ha, ha, there's no work happening.

You know, there's nothing happening there at all. You're just, your brain's going zing, zing, zing, zing. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. Yes. And you have become essentially a robot. A robot, yeah. Now, what do you think about the stuff coming out that this isn't conspiracy, but it's been admitted

by most of the tech companies that they have implanted into their apps, an addictive algorithm. Oh, absolutely. They're studying that. It's an explicit field of study. How to capture your attention. How to keep you in the loop. Do you think that should be illegal?

How to move you to the next thing. I don't think it should be illegal. I think it should be made explicit. It should be like just like a warning on a bottle or anything else. Like what are the risks here? They go, you know, go in at your own free will, but understand what we're doing.

To me, I agree. I mean, anytime there's no regulate, I don't mean that, but I mean, I- I'm sort of a libertarian at heart. I could feel that. I'm like, my pendulum swings. I know, me too. Like intensely to the other side of it sometimes.

I know. I mean, look at me with the homeless. Government fix this. Yeah, exactly. A friend of mine went, oh, Mr. Libertarian, really? Yeah. I was like, okay, well. Well, okay, well, no one's any one thing,

but to me, I think one of the byproducts of our ability to understand reality using technology is that we're going to become increasingly adept at hypnotizing people. Sure. I don't think it's any error, any accident that most of everything right now is not about facts or rhetorical, you know, it's not logical discourse.

It's just persuasion. Everything's persuasion now. Facts don't seem to matter at all. I just interviewed a guy from CNET today who said by next year or two, you'll be able to make videos of you and me saying and doing anything. Yeah.

That's insane. I don't know when anything is real or not, whatever we're seeing. Yeah. How far have you taken that? I want to know where that goes. I haven't done deep thinking on it yet. I walked away bothered.

Let me give you a couple of things. Tell me where it's going. Okay. And I want to know what you think about this. Because this is again, where we're getting to the opposite of libertarianism. When I hear shit like that, anybody who's got a public profile,

like you especially, oh my God, there's terabytes of you talking, terabytes of video view. Yeah, now they're going to turn me into something else. Doing whatever they want. So here's the, here's like the fun part is obviously going to be, let's just face it,

we're all going to be in embarrassing porn videos, matter of time, no way around it. In minutes. Just surrender to that. With this coming. I was thinking that while you were speaking. Which one, which position? Every position.

And who, who will the subject be? Trust me, it's going to be you and I having this conversation, matter of time. Enjoy thus good. Then it'll be, maybe they'll put our voices in. You know, there's a lot of things that are going to happen. But that's to me is the fun part.

As long as it's like, you know, it's not, for some people though, it's going to be absolutely traumatic. And they're going to have to have laws about it. There's going to have to be consent laws about it. But then all that stuff aside, right now imagine you get a robo call from sometimes from numbers, you know,

I don't know if that's ever happened to you, but some, right. So here's what happens. Someone gets your phone number. Someone gets your identity. Someone facetimes people in your phone as you. And then begins to extract private information from them about your life.

You're a genius. They can use the black manual. You're an evil genius. You're scaring me. That's one thing that's definitely going to happen. Oh my God. And because you could never, I always wonder what the next thing is going to be

to take advantage of human ignorance because you're not going to be able to defend yourself against it. No. We have to have some software that identifies fake. Like something comes up on the screen and goes, if you know, some light or a scale of, you know, do you trust this or not?

They're going to have to have that in fast. Well, what it is is you're going to have we're going to have to go back to old passwords where people had passwords to get into like clubs and get into places where it was literal. We're just going to have to go back to personal passwords where every month or two, you're going to have to face to face tell your friends,

my password is whatever. Elephant's. Elephant946. So if I call you and I'm acting weird, ask for my password because otherwise it's not me. You seem quite like myself. Yeah. You ever heard of something called the uncanny valley?

Yeah, sure. Right. So I'm wondering if that'll trigger the uncanny valley in people. Like it's not quite us. We'll be, we'll be disgusted and put off by it. Well, this, I think the uncanny valley was some kind of built in defense mechanism

against this form of camouflage. What we're looking at is like a new. Well, uncanny valley, right. I think uncanny valley is something that's evolved in our brains because of disease states. Oh, shit. Can you define it real quick? Okay, uncanny valley is something

that the robotic community discovered, which is as they make robots more and more and more human-like, we like it, we like it, we like it until they get very near to humanoid and then we're disgusted. We go into the uncanny valley. We're uncannily just put off by it.

And I think that's, it has something to do with like people with mental illness and disease states where we were, we pull away from them because we don't, because in the back of the day, those were infectious diseases often. Right. And so we recoil from it.

Or lunatics. Yeah, or like somebody could become aggressive or something, but in either case, it's adaptive to move away. Right, yeah. Okay, yeah. And so this uncanny valley does produce a really grotesque feeling when you,

when you witness it. And the same feeling you get around a dead body or, you know. Similar, yeah. Similar, yeah. So, but there, it doesn't matter if it's next year. Let's say it's two years from now. What are you predicting?

The inevitability of there being perfect duplicates of every single one of us. Especially people with a lot of video out there. Yes. That's right. Or, I mean, you saw what it did with the Mona Lisa, right? Just, they took a picture of the Mona Lisa. They don't have a, there's one frame

and they were able to turn that into a person. So if you, you're probably gonna get messed with more if you have stuff out there, but really it's a basic. I'm worried about how we're gonna even know what is news real. You know, what is real in the news? What a politician really said. And by the way, we already have so much fake news.

Who are we gonna go to to sort that out for us? It's done. Forget it. It's a new kind of weapon. It's like, you know, like a, it's some weird kind of technological smoke bomb that could be thrown over an entire city or country to create a cloak of confusion.

Easy. Cause everyone thinks, oh, I know what they're gonna do. They're gonna put a YouTube video of someone's president saying some crazy shit about everyone should get ready for an impending bombing raid. But it's not just that they're gonna do that. They're gonna send thousands of different versions of it.

So there's just no way to tell who's the real president anymore. Right. And then who do you go to find out what he really said? You would normally go, well, let's go to Walter Cronkard. Let's go to the news, not anymore. Cause they're fake too. Yeah. This is the splitting of the atom.

And in relation to like the internet, we're looking at the exact same kind of terror, but fortunately or not so fortunately, I don't think many people knew that Einstein had alerted people that they were going to be able to split the atom and there'd be this massive release of energy. In this case, you know, we're seeing like, oh fuck, this is going to completely disrupt the way

that we as a species have learned to communicate with each other via technology and no one's doing shit about it. I agree. I agree. So here it comes. Anyway, what's for dinner? P.S. guys, what you just listened to is not

Duncan Trussell and Dr. Drew. This is in fact a deep fake technology. I love bathing an elephant piss. You think I'd really say that? Hell no. So, okay. So what do you think we can look forward to in the next election cycle

based on this impending technology? I don't know. I can't, you've already enlightened me just now. I know it's going to be crazy. And I know, like everything, some of it is impossible to predict, right? It's just going to come upon us. Here's another thing I've thought of

regarding this particular technology, which is real creepy. So, book of revelations, end of the world prophecy. I've always loved it. You know, just because it's so psychedelic, just even if it was written by a guy who was going through an intense delirium on an island.

Who cares? Who cares? It's like outsider art. You know, it's still amazing and just weird and weird. It was like a Hieronymus Bosch painting. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, the lamb of God, but with a sword in its mouth and decapitated heads

all over the place and just, it's all code. But one of the weird predictions in it is the dead war eyes again. And I've always thought, oh my God, that's so such bullshit. Like, how would that ever happen? What in, what does that look like? Like pragmatically, you know,

like your great grandmother who's buried in Georgia in a steel coffin six feet under comes to life. Is there something- Then what? Then what? You're fucked. You're just like in the ground screaming, wondering. You can't break.

You can't break. Dying and being reborn and dying again. But now, when you realize like, oh, the dead are coming back. There's gonna be another Jim Morrison. There's gonna be another Jimi Hendrix. There's gonna be another- Yeah, but they're gonna be in a 3D hologram.

Well, yeah, but if you think about it, the way we experience human contact these days is mostly online. Think of all the people that you communicate with online. Yeah, sure. I mean, it's like, think of every, Hemsworth. Think of Hemsworth. You're never gonna meet Hemsworth.

The way you know him is from the movies, right? So similarly, we're gonna start seeing shows that have as their host, presidents that have died, Gandhi, you know, Martin Luther King and not just some bullshit animated thing and AI possessing the thing to produce their personality again. What's that gonna do to us?

Maybe it would be a good thing. Because certainly the predominant personalities we're manifesting these days aren't exactly great. You know what I mean? Maybe it'll bring us back to something better. I don't know. Come on. Okay, that's cool.

Now, here's another possible day. For some reason, I've spent so much time thinking about this because I think it's such an impending, interesting catastrophe. It's coming. So here's another thing. Therapy. So I go to therapy and they scan me

and they show me what a healthy version of me might look like. In your brain. No, like just here, here, you know. Although you'll talk to yourself as a healthy version of yourself. Just like, I mean, I don't know how you, like, you know, you look at you.

You're quintessentially a healthy person. You're in shape. You're a positive person. You have great work ethic and you're highly successful. If I were to take this version of you and show it to the version of you prior to you getting into therapy,

don't you think it would be inspirational? It might be. It's a way to motivate people. It's interesting. Only if I could speak to myself. Well, that's the therapist's job. To create a self that would speak back to you and go, hey, you've got some work to do.

Yeah. You don't realize that you're disconnected and that anxiety, it's because you're not connected to your primary emotional states. This would be a very rewarding experience for you. Yeah. That, because that's gonna be the craziest shit.

Yeah. You're gonna get people into therapy. That's good. I think it's going to become one of the great therapeutic tools and tools of trainers who are like, what do you want to look like? Oh, yeah.

You want to be muscular. You want to look to barbers, all that shit. Now, finally, this is the final. You've been thinking too much about this, but go ahead. Okay, thank you, Dr. Here's my final question. Would you be interested, is your mother still living? No.

Would you be interested in talking to your mom again? I'd like to talk to my dad. And would you be interested in talking to like an AI animated version of your dad again? Be interesting. Who owns the rights to people's parents? Could there be a scooping up of people's parents who've left a social thumbprint online

and then those parents are sold back to you? Oh, sure. That'll happen. Would that be legal? Why not? So there's gonna be some company that can literally sell your parents back to you. An experience with your parents back to you.

The parent, no, I'm saying the AI. Oh, you get the whole, you keep talking to them like as long as you want? Sure, some black mirror shit, yeah. And also on top of that, think of the email you get that shows. It feels like weirdly, you talked about the dying and living again.

It feels like that somehow. It feels like Russian doll. It's like every day, it's like, God damn it, I'm still alive. I know, it creeps me out. It feels, this to me is like when we're all thinking about what the end of the world looks like, it was like based on, well, there's meteors, fire.

We got that too, we got meteors. We got meteors. Yeah, they'll come. Bombs, assassinations, but no one was like, oh, we're all going to be infinitely duplicated and better versions of ourself are going to become more successful than us online. That's awesome, online.

Here's a real base. I'm sorry, were you going to say something? No. Here's a real base question, so forgive me for it. But I just realized I have never met anyone who goes on Fox News and I was just wondering, what's that like going on Fox News as a Democrat? Yeah, the reason, I have no skin in the game

on any of these cable news networks. So I was on CNN for a long time in headline news and I had a great relationship with them and I enjoyed the experience immensely. At the end, it was weird because I, do you want to have me at the end? No. Oh, so I went on Don Lemon one night

and I did about 20 minutes, certainly 10 minutes on Trump and his narcissism and his hypomania and all this stuff. And as I said, look, businessman, that's a common personality and mood thing amongst highly successful business people. And I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing for a president.

I mean, Teddy Roosevelt was a narcissistic bipolar, for sure. Really? Oh, for sure, think about him that way. And he was my favorite president. So it worked out then, I don't know. So I just talked about it. Next day, my radio program director went, hey, that was pretty interesting.

Would you do 30 seconds for our website? I went, I can do it, did 30 seconds. And I'm getting up and he goes, hey, would you do 30 seconds on Hillary? We need maybe balance it out. And I go, all right, you know, she just released, her doctor just released her medical records and her medical care sucked.

I had a bunch of notes about it and I was concerned about it. And so I just kind of went through it. And I didn't say anything about her. I was talking about her doctors and the care she was getting. Well, Drudge Report picked that up and went, finally a doctor says she's not fit for office.

Oh, fuck. Yeah. And CNN came down to me like a ton of bricks. Oh, shit. And silenced me. Wow. So I thought that was not right. And so I've been looking around for a new home ever since

and I've looked everywhere. And these guys have sort of welcomed me and I've known Greg Gutfeld for years. And I used to do red eye all the time back in the day. So it was fun. And the reason I like doing that show is they don't take themselves seriously. I mean, some of the stuff's kind of harsh.

But I don't, that's not my opinion. And so either funny, it's upbeat, not taking themselves seriously. So that was my reason for doing that. Now, since then I've been on Laura Ingram a couple of times and on the morning show. No, but you know, I've found it generally congenial,

say what you want, you know, come in and have an opinion. And what I've been talking about with Ingram is the homeless thing. So I don't care where I have to go to talk about that. So to me, these are just outlets for conversation. Do you, this is such a boring question, but honestly, just because my- And by the way, I've only been doing that

for like three months or something. Well, no, I guess I've known Greg about six months. My wife and I hate watch Fox News, you know? But we're not particularly like, we are political ideas are, well, this is to sum it up. The other day my wife said to me, Duncan, do you realize 100% of your political predictions

are wrong? They've been completely wrong over the last year. And I thought about it, because I was like, what? And I'm like, oh, you're right. I'm perpetually politically wrong. Any political thing I think of ends up being wrong, but because I'm a comedian and we're fools,

I will say it before I've put any kind of thought into it all, thus perpetually embarrassing myself, which I don't mind. But still I enjoy watching Fox News because particularly Sean Hannity, because he's professionally angry. And I'm fascinated by that because it's like, my God, you have to get yourself throughout.

They're all doing TV. You know what I mean? Mostly it's TV. And Fox is more talk show entertainment than news. That's right. But just Hannity in particular has- He didn't use, I used to show years ago, and I think about it, I used to be on a show,

I used to be on, what's the guy's name that has his own website world now. So I've always done all the different cable news networks. I used to be on CNBC, I've always just done all of them. P.S. Not talking shit, so to speak, about Hannity. If anyone who likes Hannity, I don't care what you think about his politics, I don't agree with most of them.

You do have to admit that guy has got to do some, either number one, he's angry like that all day long, which I don't believe, because if he were, he would be dead in five days. His stomach would just melt. His asshole would just fall out. So that means that he's got to do some kind of like Daniel Day-Lewis pre-show anger mechanisms

to really get this perfect flavor of furious. I agree, I agree. I think he would do your show, if you asked him. I think he would, if you asked me would. The only thing, way that I would do that is if we don't talk about politics. Right, of course, of course, of course. Because that would be fascinating to find out.

Because you do think like, what do these guys do when they're not like, throwing incendiary, anyway, here's my question. What's it like backstage at that place? Like, how does it work? Super congenial, super, I mean, there's politicians back there, was just chatting it up, it's weird.

CNN was always much more quiet and uptight, always. And no one spoke to each other. Backstage at Fox, everyone's talking, chatting it up. I sat next to, what's that, what's this? I can't even think of his name, but senators and things are back there, it's weird. That's the other weird part. But you do admit there is like a water cooler

filled with Syrian blood in there that they drink during breaks. I'm not sure it's Syrian, but there's something. Some kind of blood, yeah. And the goblet thing is true. Oh, sure. The stone goblet. With the big stone, yes, well, it's made of stone

with a giant gem in it. Wow, cool, man, that's awesome. I had to drink from that. Hey, everybody, I want to drink from the box stone goblet. Oh, power. Okay, so. It is weird. It's just all so weird to me, all that whole world.

I was thinking, funny, we're talking about it, it's just, I was just thinking, I want to keep doing capable news outlets, but I have such a head of steam about this homeless thing. Anybody that will listen, I'll talk about it. Hey, let me tell you, we cheer when you get on Fox News. We love watching you on there.

And here's the real thing in my mind, my lifetime of LSD mind. The way I look at it is, we aren't in the luxurious position these days of being so fragmented as people. We just don't get to, that is a luxury. I don't even like that. I want to go into enemy territory.

I want to talk to everybody. I want to be an example of how we just all, let's get together, come on now. Because that's, to me, being newly married, one of the things I've recently realized is if I try to win an argument. The relationship loses. I lose.

No, the relationship loses. And then you lose that way. Yeah, that's losing. That's way, that's more losing than winning. And so I've lately just been like, wait, we love each other. Underneath it all. Yeah, don't fight.

Right, but we got to do that. And as men, we like push, we go three or four steps too far always. Depends on our mommies. But yeah, because my mom, I've gotten in many fights with my mom, but it's my wife, if that makes any sense at all. You know what I mean?

But that's what I think. You got to get under there. If people like you aren't going on Fox, if people start feeling like, I can't go there because I'm a traitor to this or that or whatever. You got to just go. Just do it.

If the intention in your heart is you want the world to be better, let people do it. Are you catching flak from appearing on there from people? Sometimes, yeah, sure. Friends of mine in particular are like, wow, how could you? I'm like, I'm just, I'm not getting paid.

I'm not towing a line. I'm just going into expressing something. Right. It's like, and it's an exploration always too. And Gutfeld to me, the Gutfeld show is always just fun. I mean, Tyrus and Cat are friends of mine now. And I think they're just great, you know? It feels to me when I'm watching you though,

that you are having to do a type of tightrope walk act up there. Well, because some of the stuff he says is harsh. I'm like, no, no, no, that's not me. I'm more interested in making sense of things, bringing some history and psychology and sort of being that voice there. So, you know, once, I can't say why, unfortunately,

but I did a Google search to try to find you cursing. And I really had a hard time finding it. Really? I'm sure it's out there. No, I was just looking like Dr. Drew, fuck you. Dr. Drew saying fuck. You go back to Reddit. That's better use your time.

Angry Dr. Drew. I could only find one thing with Adam Carolla where you guys had a little fight. But, and this is, let's see, we have a little bit of time. So here's, I don't know if it's my last question, but this guy I'm really into right now, Shogym Trump of this Buddhist teacher, one of the things he says is,

how is it that some people, when they come home, they become really sloppy, they become really gross, they become more aggressive, they become shittier than when they're at work. So they have these two versions of themselves. One of them is what appears in the public space. The other one is what happens behind closed doors. And the one behind closed doors is this

elapidated shell, a kind of husk. It's like the elephant man taking off his mask, which already was scary. Now, you know what I mean? And so, and forgive me if this is too personal question. How big is the divide between you, the Dr. Drew, we all know, and you, the Dr. Drew behind closed doors? Everyone around me always tells me I'm exactly the same,

which I like. Wow. That's just me. I'm probably, I don't think I'm any different. Maybe you'll, I wonder if I express more anger at home. I'll let that out a little more maybe, but not at, in my family, just angry about whatever happened the day.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And disdain and those kinds of yucky emotions that I don't like, might be a little more of that. But you have to ask my wife. I mean, she generally says I'm the same. Okay.

Yeah. That's great to hear. Now, you're the same. Well, I'm getting more of this. That actually, you know, that's not true. I went into like a real sloppy, gross, shitty period where I was like leaving cabinets open and like leaving shit everywhere.

And then I actually, that was one of the things I read. So I'm like, wait, who's this person? Well, it's funny that you mentioned sloppiness because that's not usually what happens when people get home. That's your thing. When I normally see people, they become aggressive and abusive and that kind of thing.

Like kicking the dog type stuff. Oh, no. Well, I mean, I guess you could say it's a form of abuse or aggression at least in the sense that if you live with someone. Passive aggression, yeah. You're pretending that you don't live with someone or someone else.

But you know, when I was growing up and maybe not so much now, there was like pop psychology was telling us, we need to be authentic. We need to be who we are. Don't hold your anger in. Let it out. Yeah, there was a lot of that back then.

Like it was gonna do something to you if you didn't express it. That's it. Yeah, and once you discharged it was gone. You're better. That's bullshit. Really? Once you discharged it, you're on a roll.

Now it's coming. And you might start liking it or get good at it or have less ability to contain it if you keep letting it out like that. I knew it. That's what I see. Cause my mom was a psychologist growing up and I realized like, wait,

my relationship with anger is like the relationship of the person you don't want to sit next to on a plane with farts. They're just blowing them out. They're not thinking there's other people on the plane. And it seems- It's the opposite. What you want to cultivate is empathy.

And so you can understand the impact of whatever emotions you express and pay attention to that and go ahead and express them. And by the way, there are ways to express things like anger without it being aggressive. Like I could say, Duncan, I am so angry at you. And be really angry and tell you why and be very adamant about it.

And that's it. And I've now just, I've expressed my anger. I've done it in a very possibly productive way. Gotcha. Man, I wonder how much damage that has done to the world, that philosophy. Cause the seventies did that. You know how I hate the seventies.

I wasn't quite aware of that. Oh, I hate the seventies. They, they, they, they, they, untold damage came out of the seventies. Untold. Everything we're dealing with bad right now, you could draw a direct line back. The Elton John movie.

Is that what you're supposed to do? Everything. You could draw a line back to the seventies. It's got to be some music and cinema, I guess. Wow. Oh my God. Okay. So that's great. That's what I thought.

I, I, I think a lot of people are confusing their lack of discipline with some kind of authenticity. This is who I am. Yeah. This is me. And you just can't handle it, man. Yeah. No, that's you being an asshole.

Wow. Yeah. Authenticity is a much more subtle phenomenon. Authenticity is spontaneity and genuineness and usually positive emotions come along with it. And when they're negative, they're done with empathic attunement and concern. Finally, Dr. Drew After Dark.

And no, finally, we can keep talking. I can do like 15 minutes in one. Oh, that's fantastic. You want to do it, yeah. Okay, cool. Man, what a great show. Yeah, that was fun. That was so fun.

Not our show. Your show is blowing up, man. Dr. After Dark. Yes. Yeah. It's so good. People like it. Yeah, that is good.

When I was there with you. Have they aired the one you and I did? They did, yeah, they did, yeah. When I was there with you and watching your stuff online, I realized, oh, you're kind of a comedian, right? You're a comedic figure. You're really funny. Here's what that is.

Is that I've been working with a comedian for how many decades with Corolla since 1996, right? And my role, and he has pounded this into me, is improvisational comedy. Like if I don't give him something back, he's furious. Right. And so he was constantly, and I resisted it for about 10 years.

He was always like, not only that, but yes, and, can't you give me, can't you coaching me? You'll listen to the Adam and Dr. Drew show. You'll still hear him yelling at me about stuff where I'm not giving back what he wants improvisationally. Fundamentally, I'm being the straight guy, right? I'm pitching stuff to the comedian to give him a chance to be funny.

Wow. But I do understand humor. You're funny. I think I understand it, yeah. You're what's known as a straight man, but that's what you are, but that is the funniest. To me, it reminds me of Carl Reiner with Mel Brooks. Carl Reiner was very straight, but he was very funny.

Very funny. And that's harder to pull off that. I disagree, and Adam would kick you in the ass for that. Really? I don't know, maybe, but I disagree because it suits my constitution. It's very natural for me to do that. I gotcha.

So I don't have to work at it. I have to work at paying attention and be trying to be clever and trying to be interesting and let my own, whatever, humor come out spontaneously too. That's the hard part, right? Trusting your instincts? Yes. That's a real difficulty, for sure.

Well, especially if you're up in your head. Trusting your instincts, I was actually reading Everest, because all those people are stuck up there. They're crazy. And one of the things Crack Hour wrote is that when every move is life or death, you're out of your head completely. But do you get up in your head a lot, or do you?

I actually would argue I probably need to go up there more and pay attention. To me, that's a matter of focus and paying attention. Gotcha. Yeah, because I got pretty good at trusting my instincts these days. Yeah. What do you see as the future for Dr. Drew?

Are you going to get a TV show or some kind of regular? I have no idea. I don't know. Do you want anything like that, or are you feeling like you don't want to keep doing it? I still feel like I've got some unfinished business, and I don't know what that even means, because television is such a wreck right now.

Yeah. I enjoy working with people and creating stuff. I really enjoy it. So I feel like I need to do some more of that. Well, you have to. And my thing is always make sure it does something. There's a reason you did it. Something good's going to happen for it.

Something has to be done. Yeah. And it may not be obvious what that is, but something's got to happen. So you don't have anything in the works right now? You're not cooking up anything? I always have something. But you know how television is,

that and 50 cents, buy a Coke. Right. I have nothing imminent. Nothing imminent. Well, I mean, that's the thing. I think this weird distinction between the internet and TV is ridiculous. Well, I was going to say.

You already have a TV show. Yeah, I was going to say. I'm a little bit surprised that Dr. After Dark doesn't turn into something. If I were television producer, I'd go, maybe we could turn that over. Oh, it has to. It's so, to me, it's like, finally you're getting to,

like, because when I see on Fox or a lot of the shows, you're having to play not just a straight man, but you're just having to play a doctor and be very serious because if suddenly you start cracking jokes on any of those shows, it would be scandalous. It would be hilarious for us, but it would scandalize. But you, you would be. How many heart attacks?

How many heart attacks of like the ancient Fox news viewers? It's just exploded in heart. Well, that's the really interesting tightrope walk I always have to do, though. I don't want to not be a doctor. I don't want to be disrespectful to my profession, my position and all these decades of work and I've been doing or I patients even for that matter.

But I do like to push the boundary a little bit. Yeah, well, I hope you keep doing it. Thank you. Like you've been doing it. And I love Dr. Drew After Dark, especially that's, I hope what you make your focus. Don't, what do I know? But thank you so much for taking the time to be here.

I always love talking to you. It's never not a joy. So thank you. Let's do it again. Anytime. Thank you. All right, man. Thanks a lot.

That was awesome. Very, very perfect. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. This has been the Dugga Trust, a family hour podcast. Much thanks to Dr. Drew for coming down to record an episode and much thanks to you for listening. If you want to help out the DTFH support our sponsors, subscribe to the Patreon and spread as much glorious,

beautiful love as you can in your community so that we can finally break off into the part of the multiverse where everything is an exponentially increasing blast of technologically enhanced, orgasmic pleasure. We've got a lot of great episodes coming your way. Until then, Hare Krishna. We are family.

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