Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 343: Johanna Warren

Episode Date: June 29, 2019

Johanna Warren, ultra-talented folk singer, brings about a dreamy haze and joins the DTFH! This episode is brought to you by BLUECHEW (use offer code: DUNCAN at checkout and get your first shipment FREE with just $5 shipping). This episode is also brought to you by Raycon (visit buyraycon.com/duncan and use offer code: DUNCAN20 at checkout for 20% off).

Ghost Towns. Dirty Angel. Out. Now. You can get Dirty Angel anywhere you get your music. Ghost Towns. Dirty Angel. Out. Now. New album and tour date coming this summer. Don't forget to like, share and subscribe to our channel. We are show to you by the Hikaka. Lume song. One day your stepfather ran out of lube.

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The stars aligned and I got to spend a little bit of time with Johanna Warren who has got to be one of the most talented folk singers I've ever listened to. Who is one? Reach for the sun Where we tried But that look in your eyes Made me blind So what if I didn't mind

So what if I didn't mind Here's life at last We do shall pass Time moves slow I've got nowhere to go You still don't know So what if I told you so So what if you told me so

Take from your dream There's more to see Don't deny What we saw in the sky Cleansed by fire So what if I am a liar So what if I am a liar So what if I am

Now without further ado, everybody please welcome to the Dugga Trussell Family Hour podcast, Johanna Warren. It's the Dugga Trussell Family Hour. What is it called? I don't know. When people ask me what kind of music I make, I just say, I write songs and they are what they are. And I'm a song mom. It's not my job to judge them before they're born.

I just birth them and then try my best to give them the life that they need in terms of production. You never really know what's going to come out. I don't like to try to direct it. Right. But yeah, there's a recurring sound for many artists. Totally. And sometimes there's artists who transcend that sound or take the risk, like the phases of an artist's life, where they're like, okay, I did that.

Now I'm jumping into this new place. They're usually my favorite artists. David Bowie being the classic example. Bob Dylan did it. And it's such a risky, crazy thing to do because you piss off the fans. Yeah, it really requires a lot of courage. And usually once you've gotten to a certain point in the industry, you've got pressure coming from management and label to do the thing that worked already

that we know we can make more money on. So on a lot of levels, it's like a bold move. And I really respect that anytime that any artist of any modality makes that decision to just throw caution to the wind and follow the current of inspiration wherever it's flowing. That's a rarity, I think. Truly. Yeah, it's a rarity. And I wonder, do you find yourself, because your music has this spirituality wound up into it

that's clearly coming from a lot of personal work. Do you find that clashing against the growing realities of your success as a performer and the sort of pressures that are no doubt you're experiencing as you begin to step through that, you know, into the like, I don't know what you want to call it, but it's weird how sometimes it's weird. The Matrix. Yeah, I don't know. Honestly, it's kind of the only comforting refuge that I can take in this super chaotic ocean of information and data and opinions and people's agendas.

I feel like I am so grateful for my inner world and my relationship with spirit, like whatever that looks like to me, just knowing that I've cultivated something really true and stable inside myself, that then it's kind of a litmus test against which I can like gauge every decision that needs to be made in my external world. It's like, does this align? Like, is this a yes? Like, when I align myself with like the forces in the universe that I want to be working with and working for, like, does this check out? You know, does this person check out?

Does this deal check out? Yeah. And so it actually has become like a pretty manageable system of decision making where it's just like, if it's not a full body fuck yeah, then like, it's probably a no. There are some nuanced situations where I can like work on it and find the fuck yeah embedded in the like entanglement of like something less than ideal. Yeah. It's a big part of why I'm in LA actually to like to do that work of like having nuanced conversations with people in the industry where there's like a lot of stuff that I inherently kind of disagree with on systemic levels, but recognizing like I want to be a part of the collective conversation and like to do that in a meaningful way as I'm sure you know all about.

Like you have to know how to work with people, imperfect people who are sometimes making choices that you don't necessarily agree with, but that you can kind of like wisely, masterfully align yourself with the parts of them that you do align with truly. You know, does that make sense? Absolutely. Yeah. This is the thing I'm discovering being married, which is that the there needs to be a constant reminder. That we're on the same team. Yes.

And that underneath whatever, whatever it may be, there's real deep love. Yes. And the moment I drop into that, it just works. And within and of course this you I can extrapolate from that the identical realization with anyone I'm collaborating with, which is the moment you start thinking me, you. Yes. Sort of in some weird struggle over creating this thing or that, then it becomes like hellish. Totally. But the moment you realize, oh, we both had moms and we both want to make something that looks great in the world.

We're in this together. Yeah. And I feel like just across the board, that's like the big collective paradigm shift that needs to happen if we're going to like survive on planet Earth as a species in any kind of way that I want anything to do with. It's like we need to evolve out of the like me against humanity and be like, it's like all of us, not even just all of us humans, but like all of us Earth beings. And so like are the choices that I'm making in alliance with that mission statement or am I still running some old paradigm program of like me against everyone else? Well, David Nick Turnu, I work with he teaches me about Buddhism meditation. One of the things he said is like, you know, sometimes when you cut the chicken's head off, its body still runs around. Meaning that sometimes like even when you start working at this mission as you're calling it, you're still dealing with the momentum of all the moments prior to that simple shift and thinking of like, oh, I don't need to win this game or that winning the game as we've been taught usually means losing the game.

Like it's a weird game because the way to win is to lose sometimes and not to be the one that is like climbing on top of everybody. Right. That doesn't work. No, yeah, it's like you have to accept your like utter annihilation and defeat in the old paradigm in order to like succeed and thrive in the new paradigm, which is like kind of as far as I can tell like a non competitive collective. Like if I win, we all win because if we're all sharing the same vision where like everyone is here for a sacred purpose and I want to like invest my faith and energies into a future in which everyone gets to express that and live that. Then like we literally no one can win unless we all do. Do you find that because of your, you know, when you're a performer, the structure of performance is aesthetically hierarchical. Oh my God.

Yeah. Right. I think about it all the time. And I do what I can to like actively subvert that like I really love playing house shows. And that's actually intentionally sort of the realm that I have like cultivated my practice because it's you show up and you're just a guest at the party and like sometimes you kind of have to like sneak off into a back room and like get in the zone. But I really like hanging out with people, like especially after like just talking and being available for like conversation and processing. And just because like I was such a fangirl when I was a kid and would just go to shows and be the spec in the ocean before these demigods up on stage and just being like, who are they?

How did they come here? Like how do you possibly like get on the other side of that bubble? Yes. And actually, yeah, like my experience with iron and wine was like right out of the gates before I had done any solo touring. I got like picked up as like a backup singer for this like 13 piece iteration of iron and wine and like toward the world with them for a year. Wow. So my first touring experience was like two mega tour buses and like the nicest oldest theaters around the world and like audiences of thousands. So to get to like experience that like kind of a bit vicariously like it was like doing it with training wheels like someone else's project.

I'm there to like blend into the background. It's not like my thing, but still to get to experience what that feels like and see like on the other side of the bubble was like so profoundly educational and like such a gift in so many ways. But one of the one of the things that I did notice was that even at that point, which you know, it was like seven years ago, but even at that point, a lot of people like, you know, were on their phones in the crowd and like had paid a lot of money to be there, but then weren't really having anything that resembled like an authentic personal experience. Right. So I like planted some seeds in my mind early on of just like how is there another way to do this like where we can really be like collectively like experiencing something authentic and like, you know, just like deep like dropping into a state of like deep presence with each other. Because I think, you know, the music industry in some ways is just really fucked. Like it's just all about like how many bodies can we cram into the same space so that we can sell as much beer as possible.

Yeah. It's not weird. It's crazy. God, that's a real to that to me is just so that when you start understanding that the money is not prime is not only not primarily being generated from the ticket sales. But is being exponentially exceeded by the booze sales. Yeah. And really you're like essentially a lure to get people to go to a bar. Yes.

That is a shocking moment. Yeah. It makes me it made me mad. Now I'm just kind of like laughing at it from outside of it. Yeah. Wow. That's weird. Yeah.

But I want to talk a little bit more and I don't want to like spend a ton. No, I love talking about music and like this the business of music because I don't understand it very much. There are a few things I've always wondered about professional musicians and so I want to ask you. Okay. I may be the wrong person to ask, but I'm happy to chime in. Okay. I listen to your music. It's so heartfelt.

It's so soulful. It's so beautiful. Thank you. And it's clearly coming from like deep emotions and deep vulnerability, but you've got to do that after driving somewhere after getting, you know, having to like fill the car up with gas and figuring out like when do I have time to take a shower? When do I have time to do this? When do I have time to do that?

And then you have to like become a conduit to that space you were in. Yeah. That energy that came into you that inspired this song again and again and again and again and again. Yeah. How is that done? And what do you do when it just isn't there? Oh God, I think like everyone has their own strategies and coping mechanisms and a lot

of people rely on drugs and alcohol to like make it bearable because it is like being a touring musician is like a pretty brutal path. And like I personally feel like, you know, that was like an option for me for a while like just going down the route of just like numbing myself and being in like a cycle of like substance abuse. Which substances? Mostly just alcohol for me and weed, you know, just kind of like it's a lot to handle and it's a lot of discomfort to hold in your body, like just sitting in a car for like

seven hours a day and then sleeping on a floor. You know, it's like it can be really a lot. But there's I've recently like the last couple of years really been leaning into like mystical yogic practices really of just, you know, like really using the time in the car to like be circulating energy throughout my body and meditating while I'm stuck in traffic and like finding ways to create internal center and stability, like when everything around me is changing. Everyone needs a great pair of wireless earbuds, but before you go dropping hundreds of dollars

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One more time, buyraycon.com slash Duncan. They're beautiful earbud sarcophagus. They come in this sweet, beautiful little case as though you're holding an ancient, beloved artifact that you found beneath a pyramid. Thanks, Raycon. And I'm alone a lot of the time. I've driven myself around the country in a van by myself and played shows pretty much every night for three months.

And that experience was just like I've never felt so close to God. You're like in one way just like in this like durational trust fall with the universe. People are like, you know, I get like a lot of comments, especially like as a young woman, like a lot of people are like, oh my God, like you're so brave for doing that. Like how do you survive? And I'm like, I've actually had really beautiful experiences across the board. Like just getting to receive like people's generosity and kindness and just good, good human stuff, you know, but in the times that it has felt dangerous,

I realized that it's really like a projection of my own internal state. Like when I am in a state of internal chaos, like I attract chaotic events. And when I am like resting in a place of like peace and stillness, like everything is just so gentle. And that's, you know, it's a big generalization, but it feels really true for me at this point, based on like a decade of experience living this way. It's like, it's kind of a brutally honest mirror for me to look into of just like, am I like, am I aligned?

Am I taking care of myself? Are my energies organized? And if they're not, like the universe like fucks with me, you know, and like the characters become increasingly like sketchy and nefarious, you know. Yeah. It's like direct feedback. Direct feedback. And that is so like this is a experience that I think the moment you just start catching on that that's happening,

you're doing great. Yeah. Because before you catch on, then that's happening. Your life feels chaotic. Completely out of control. Yeah. And then suddenly you realize like, oh my God, what is this? And I go back and forth.

I think the most, the least woo-woo-we explanation for it must be that we're just seeing our projections and everything. And then if you, you know, go into a house of mirrors and you're dressed like a skeleton, you're going to see a lot of skeletons. But in this case, in this house of mirrors, the skeletons actually, they do their own thing. And they're covered in other people's skin and they can be really quite terrified. So, yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. And then when I get woo-woo-we about it, I think, oh, I guess we're just like, this is a, you know, where we're at neurologically, we can't understand yet that we are constantly traveling through parallel universes

based on the rudder of our energetic state. Dude, it's so real. Like that's been such a, like, frequently occurring experience in my recent times of just like, like in real time, like feeling this like level shifting. Like if I say, like the first time I really noticed it. Yes? The first time I really noticed it, I was on a road trip with my friend and I had been like experiencing like kind of financial hardship, but not nothing too extreme.

But I just like, I was stressed out and I stopped to fill the tank. We were driving their car and like I was putting gas in the tank. And then I said like, I was going to fill it up all the way. But then I was like, can I just put in 25? I'm like really broke right now. And those words came out of my mouth. And I just felt everything around like all the like blocks of the matrix, like just like shoots and ladders like back to the bottom of the board.

And it's like, all right, you said it. We will make it so right now. And then I was like really struggling for months. Like it took me a while to like undo that spell that I cast on myself. Wow. And it is, it is a spell. Do you practice magic? Can you describe, you were talking a little bit about exercises you were doing

to sort of energetically align yourself when you're driving. But I wonder if you could talk a little bit about what, if you had to encapsulate your practice, how would you describe it? I identify as a mystic just because like, I feel like I've had direct experiences with like divinity from a young age in ways that fell completely outside of any like religious dogma. And I've always pretty like, I have this like really rebellious rejection muscle that flexes whenever anyone tries to tell me how to do something,

especially when it comes to like my relationship with God, because I'm like, I got it. Like thanks. I just like, you know, dreams are a huge part of my experience. Like I'm just like, from a young age, I've just been kind of gifted these like visionary states. Can you be a little more detailed about that? Yeah, for sure.

Like the dream visions. Yes. Yeah. Well, the most striking actually have come from, I'm type one diabetic and so part of that is like extreme hypoglycemic states where your blood sugar is super low and your brain function is kind of cutting off. And I hypothesize that like a lot of DMT is being released because it's like you're in this liminal kind of near death, like near coma state.

Yeah. So when that happens in the middle of the night while you're asleep, like for me, it has tripped my brain into like these states of just like experiencing death in these really beautiful ways. Like the first time it happened, it was probably like 10. And I just like came to in my dream standing in this invisible doorway that's like floating in this like ocean of light and color and sound like the music that I could hear was just like the most beautiful shit I've ever heard anywhere.

And I was just standing in this doorway and I was just like, there was this consciousness, a conscious awareness that like this is death. I'm like experiencing death right now and it's beautiful. Like there was like waves of like brown mud and then like ethereal butterflies. And it was just like everything, you know? Wow. And then and at some point I realized like, oh, I need to wake up and drink some juice. But how close to death were you in that place?

Like what were you? Could you have gone into a coma? Yeah, you can. Yeah, you can die. Like it's yeah, it's a super like mystical disease in that way. Like you're kind of like traversing liminal realms all the time. Right. Yeah.

So that I do attribute that partially to like just kind of this like contact that was made at an early age with like the other side, the great beyond. That is very young to have to deal with your own mortality and the reality of how you can't, you could potentially just fade out totally part of the dream. Yeah, it's super interesting. Yeah. I mean, like, and it wasn't actually my first near death experience. Like I was kind of like, like, I don't know, just like jumping into the deep end of pools

when I was two years old and just like kind of always walking this line. Yeah. And that was actually the, the, I've only sat with ayahuasca a couple of times, but the most recent time like I had this really intense experience where like everything got really dark all of a sudden, like just like the deepest, darkest blackness I've ever seen. And then all these little skulls come out and like line up and just start rattling. Yeah. And I was like, this is the end.

Like my heart was like pounding and I thought I was going to die. And then this like really calm, like sexy grandmother voice comes in and it's just like, baby girl, you've been walking this line since you were a child. Wow. It was like a shaman's path. And like, it was kind of cool. It was like sort of like an invitation, like if you want to come to Peru and like study jungle medicine, like you're invited, but you don't have to, like you can keep doing

whatever you're doing and like bring this into that. Yeah. Like the shamanic resonance. Was this happening on your plant medicine tour? No. So I was wondering that, so that the plant medicine tour was literally not, it's not like when we, most of us, when we hear plant medicines, we're thinking like a very few. Yes.

That's right. So the year of plant medicine tour is actually a exploring grill, like medicinal plants, not just the. Yeah, herbalism. Like there were definitely some like CBD and THC products, but you know, it was mostly, it was not like I was like facilitating ayahuasca ceremony. Okay. So basically I was just like aligning with local herbalists and biodynamic farmers in

every city that I visited and just like inviting them to be at the shows, like selling their tinctures and teas and signing up for CSAs and just to like connect. What's a CSA? Community supported agriculture. What is that? It's like, so if you're like an organic farm, you can ask people in your community to sign up for like a share of what you grow and it's delivered usually weekly. Oh, cool.

Yeah. It's really cool. That's pretty amazing. So you don't have to go to the farmer's market. They just like deliver you a box of like whatever's in season. Gotcha. Yeah. Beautiful.

Yeah. Okay. Sorry. I didn't mean to divert from this encounter with some kind of intelligence that's trying to lure you out into the jungle to show you something, which is seems like that a lot of people are getting that signal these days. Yeah. Well, a big part of it, a big part of those messages for me that have come from ayahuasca,

which as an herbalist, I had a lot of resistance to participating in that culture actually, because I'm like, I'm interested in what grows locally and abundantly in our backyards. But ayahuasca is such a specific spirit and like, I feel like if she, when you hear the call, like you should eat it, you know, and especially for me, like I'm dealing with a chronic condition in my body that Western medicine is just like, you're fucked, like take this synthetic hormone for the rest of your life and give us like $1,500 just to stay alive every month. Oh my God.

Yeah. So I was like, I'm kind of on this like radical mission to like find alternatives and see what can be done through like magic. Do you have insurance or is that like? Yeah, I have like Oregon based Medicaid. So it's, it's kind of an ongoing nightmare. Like I've actually been getting my insulin in Mexico because I saw you post about that and I thought, oh my God, not that Mexico is bad or that, you know, insulin in Mexico

or whatever. It's just like the fact that we're having to do that insanity right now and that companies feel okay charging that much. And when you, you know, when you see like the various prices in different parts of the world, it's really a dark, dark flower growing from the weird tree of capitalism that somebody could actually say, look, it's a business. Okay. It's a business.

Yeah. We don't give a fuck about your health, even though we're your health insurance company. It's not our problem. Yeah. Not our job. We want to make money. Yeah. It's not such a sad, hollow way to live.

It seems like, and I'm sorry that you're having to deal with that. Are you able to buy a bunch of it when you go to Mexico or does it keep okay or? Yeah. If you have like a freezer pack, you can, it'll last up to like, I think the manufacturing company says it's good for like a year if it's refrigerated. So that's what I've been doing, just stockpiling, waiting for America to figure its shit out. Which I think is going to happen. It has to.

Well, I mean, this seems to, this is always the weirdest part of evil or whatever you want to call it. Is evil and dumb or synonymous in the sense, you know, in the sense, I don't mean that all dumb people are evil, but I mean, there's a certain. Maybe ignorance. Okay. Let's say ignorance then. Fine.

Because I know a lot of really sweet dumb people. Oh, okay. Sure. Fine. I hope I end up being one of them. I'm, I consider myself dumb. So it's, I'm sorry for the dumb people of the world. If I'd seen like, I was like, listen, I'm not, I didn't go to Stanford.

Let's just put it like that. But the, what I meant is like in movies, you know, evil is always made to be somehow like really somewhat intelligent, clever, plotting, planning. But then when you see it, it always seems like ridiculously blunt in the sense that if you overcharge long enough for a medicine, there is going to be some kind of uprising that is going to all down the road mess up your business and cause people to get so mad at you and cause regulations to come into place that you're going to end up losing more money. Maybe.

I hope I pray. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's like an intelligence of the heart that is lacking. You know, you can be like scheming in your brain and you're, I mean, at right now, like, they're right. Like they don't have to, it's not profitable for them to like want to cure a disease like type one diabetes.

Like they're killing it. But at some point, and I feel like that's where like just the collective paradigm shifting comes into play. It's like, it's evolution. Like I take great comfort in knowing, in believing in evolution and knowing that like we are part of nature. And like as of now, there's like this tremendous imbalance and like humanity is growing like cancer on the earth.

But like nature knows what to do to like rebalance herself. And like what that looks like, I think is like humans developing like psychic ability and like remembering how to like think with their hearts and their bodies and get out of the like scheming Dr. Evil, like money based left brain approach, you know, I want to talk about the idea that some of these ailments that have plagued humans for as long as there have been humans actually have cures in existence right now that we don't even know about. Because they're happening in the jungles, they're happening off the map.

And it seems like this is what you're being called to sort of explore and to work with. But you know, when my mom was dying, she went to see John of God. And you know, I'm talking about a faith healer who ended up being a complete fraud, obviously scamming people. I think he was a rapist. He was like, of course, you know, literally every bad thing you could imagine. About him, he did. And I remember the hopefulness that my mom had when she went to see him.

And I remember like the secret underneath all my cynicism, the secret hopefulness I had, because I was like, well, who the fuck knows? Maybe it works. I've heard that people went there and were healed. And anyway, it didn't work. He actually said to her, you will not die of cancer. Now he was couldn't have been more wrong. And so though I do grok that there is got to be other solutions than the ones that are currently on the map, so to speak.

I also get real nervous because there's so much room for not just exploitation, but for lack of self-care. Absolutely. Disguised as self-care when you're just using it. So give me some hope. What is the place where that isn't happening in the world? Inside yourself. I think I get really nervous when anyone is asking you to invest faith in them as your healer. Because even with my first ayahuasca experience, I showed up and the quote-unquote shaman.

I almost just turned right around because I was like, you're not a shaman. You are a 23-year-old Brazilian man who plays guitar pretty well. He's looking at the floor doing the bashful indie rock shtick of just like, thanks for coming, you guys. And I was like, this is not shamanic space-holding. I think I need to go. But then I was like, okay, actually I drove six hours to be here and I need to have a good experience right now. And I know how to facilitate that for myself and I know how to tune out 80% of what's happening in the room around me. I've heard some really scary stories actually about people going to the jungle.

I actually just met this guy on tour who I mentioned that I'd done ayahuasca and he freaked out. He was like, never do that again. I spent a year of my life in the jungle and the people I was working with were brujas. They were harvesting human souls basically. And that's a thing. That's actually a thing that people do. What do they do with the souls? Use it for their own power, I guess.

People die. There are some shamans who are operating not purely aligned of the way and using human energy in their own dark sorceress practices. This is to me the really kind of weird thing about being a westerner. People have this crazy idea that it's like a small world ride everywhere you go. And that things work according to the way we understand it here. So these people are going over there and they're like, oh, you know, it's like the cool part of the small world ride. It's going to be completely safe. I'm going to have some kind of like cool, wild experience.

Maybe I'll find myself or there'll be something, but I know it's pretty much going to be safe. Yeah, because I'm a white person and I paid $6,000 to be here. Who would take advantage of me? Who would ever take advantage of me? Meanwhile, it's a completely different metaphysical ecosystem out there. We have this crazy hubris in our scientific materialism. For most people, they don't even know the word sorcerer when they go over there. They have no idea who they're working with.

They spend less time thinking about who they're going to be slurping back a potent brew that's going to allow you to travel through the astral realms than they do about where they're going to eat. PS, as far as I'm aware, and maybe this would be something someone out there could make for us. A yelp for shamans. Oh my God. Because there's no credentialing system. And I don't know how many times I've met varieties of the emo dude who's like, I'm a shaman. Yeah.

And it's like, who are you? Really? Because it's like, and to me, the other part of it, which is some kind of, I don't know what you would call it. But it's like, if I go to get my, I don't know, appendix removed, I'm not a surgeon. I just got my appendix removed. Now, if I met someone on the street who's like, listen, I do basement surgeries. And I'm going to teach you like, here's how you do it. Cut here, cut there, pull it out, put the thing in and then sew it up.

Maybe you could say I'm a surgeon in a civil war sense. Like if it was the apocalypse, I think I could sew you up. But these people are going over to these places where the tradition is one of where it's so intently studied. It's like medical school. Yes. Well, yeah, because the energy body, I mean, the subtler layers of the body, which is like all energy is like every bit as real as your appendix and people who cultivate that awareness and know how to work on those planes are like actually doing real things to your body.

And I think that's just like so not a part of like how most of us are trained to think about things. It's just all like fun, psychedelic tourism. You know, it's like, we don't want to think about the fact that people actually die. We don't want to actually do the like diethas to like purify ourselves before engaging with this intense plant medicine. Even though like we receive the email like protocol two weeks in advance, it's like, do not eat red meat. Do not drink alcohol. Do not have sex. And we're just like, yeah, but I'm white.

You know, I don't mean red wine. They don't mean sex with my boyfriend. Yeah, they're talking about like sex on ecstasy or something. It'll be fine. And then, and then, yeah, and then they go there. And then, but then also there's another thing that happens is that people go over there who have bipolar. Yeah. And they have manic episodes and then they will hurt themselves.

Yeah. Literally commit suicide, like hurt themselves. And so, and this to me is like, and I don't, I don't mean to take things on a dark course here, but with all this, I love psychedelics. And because I love psychedelics, I have many friends who love psychedelics. And also I have people who will convey their stories of psychedelics to me. Yeah. And the only one that I keep hearing crazy shit about is ayahuasca. Yeah.

It's the only one that's like putting people into states of consciousness that are hospitalizing them. Yes. Well, you know, I think a big thing about it is like what I said before about like, you know, it grows in the Amazon. We're not in the Amazon. Like I think in general, like as an herbalist, I really like interacting with plants on like a spirit level and like a personality level. And like, who are you? What are you offering? And like, what is like, what are your requirements for like a healthy relationship?

Because like she especially is like a badass bitch. And she's like, this is how I like to be approached. This is how like, if you approach me this way, I will fuck you up. Like I might fucking kill you. You know, because like it's like, yeah, it's like you wouldn't call like a car mechanic and be like, hey, my toaster is broken. You know, like you, you got to know who to call, like given like what you're working with. And ayahuasca, I think is like an incredibly potent healer and like tool for certain conditions. What conditions?

Well, I mean, like I got to say like what what I'm dealing with like type one diabetes where it's just like there's an I've looked so many places and there's like not any promising info out there for like, or like stories of anyone reversing it. But like ayahuasca, like my experiences with that plant medicine are like fucking intense. Like it's like psychic surgery and like really like above and beyond any experiences that I've had on, you know, mushrooms or anything that's like locally available here. You know, and that's like why I've allowed myself to with great reverence and respect like approach that plant. Yeah, because I'm like, you know, if there was something growing here that like was offering similar properties, like I would go to that, but it's not. So and I felt like invited by her, you know, like she found me in dreams and was like, there's something here for you and like come talk to me. And I got to say like, you know, I totally hear you and everything that you're saying about just the dangers of it. And it's not like I'm not like broadcasting saying like, hey, everybody.

It's like actually quite the opposite. I'm like, I think the amount of people doing it is like a like disaster and a travesty. And like there's nothing okay about that. And the circles that I've sat in like the psychic energy of those spaces and those people have like deeply freaked me out and disturbed me. Like when people start making it like kind of an addictive ritual practice, I'm like that this is not. This is not what this plant wants or how she presented herself originally, you know. Well, welcome to America. Yeah, 2019.

Welcome to America. You know, it's like, wait, 50 years, you'll buy it at 711. There'll be an ayahuasca dispenser. But this is sort of the I think this is one of the interesting things about interconnectivity and also the beginning of this like incredible sort of centrifuge, like mixing that's happening where we're seeing like the interim states. I think one of, you know, some of my friends are really offended by the way Buddhism is being monetized. And some some of my friends are really offended by the sort of callous or careless rather way that people are invoking using magic. And then, you know, there's there's always this sense of like, this is a sacred thing.

You don't know what you're doing. And if you do it the wrong way, at the very least, you're being rude. You know, at the very most, you're you're going to hurt yourself. Yeah. And but I just think we have to get through that part. And so, you know, one of the things I love about Buddhism is it's the way it is. It doesn't really it's going to grow in whatever soil it lands in. And the way it's going to grow is it's going to warp into whatever the ecosystem happens to be where it lands.

I think that's why it's so such a perfect religion for the times that we're in. And then when people are like, they're the mindfulness people are making money off of the Dharma. And it's like, actually, I think if Buddhism is really going to meet the West, that it's going to take money. It's going to take all the components that people are like using as their religion, which in the West that is for a lot of people it is we're entering a religious period. Or people are pretending they're not religious when they're worshiping the Dala that money. Yeah. The money. It's money and all the stuff that comes from money and all the their relationship with money is very religious.

It's a religious attitude because, you know, many people I could like throw a crucifix on the table and say incinerate it. Here's a here. Let's set it on fire. We'll put some, you know, but if I put a $20 bill on the table, they're not going to treat it with their reverence. They would, you know, a religious item and paper, both of them ultimately, you know, meaningless. Have you seen the Holy Mountain? Yeah. It's been a while.

That's like the first thing he gets everybody to do on his like spiritual quest team. He's just like, bring out all your money, like throw it in the fire. Yeah. Step one. Step one. If you want to climb the Holy Mountain. Yeah. You got to burn your money.

And that's a funny thing. I mean, I think, you know, it's illegals. I'm not saying do it, but if you did want to do it, an illegal act, which you shouldn't do. If you really want to feel, like feel it. Yeah. If you want to do some blasphemy, I think people are hungry for blasphemy. You know, like, like it's, it's, we want to blaspheme and there's something quite nice about blaspheming. And so before we had the black mass, you know, and it was like, this is great.

You break into a church. You fuck on an altar. You, you, you, you like desecrate and you do this awful stupid shit, which is really just another. It's just, it's just Christianity. Let's face it. It's like another form of Christianity, but it's like all the oppression you've experienced in the, like your infinite contact with patriarchal piggies who are telling you how to act. You go to hell.

They're fucking your kids. You just get to blow, blow, just blow off all the steam and you've, you know, eat. I think you eat, come and that's the communion. But now it's like, you can't, I'm sure there's places where you can go and do that like as a party or something. You know, it's not so intense at all. In fact, I think I've heard of clubs in LA where you can do that. And it's like, whatever, there's nothing there to blaspheme anymore, but burning money, having a black mass with currency. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it kind of, kind of brings to mind like fin doming financial doms. Yeah. Like, like people are like paying good money to be financially humiliated and like be robbed. It's like, just like wear stilettos and like stand behind me and like make me take out all my money from this ATM and like, you can just keep it. I feel like it is this like interesting karmic like leveling of the scales. Nature is taking care of it. Yeah.

Like recently like a rat in India, like, like there was like an ATM that was like out of order mysteriously for like a week. And then they finally opened up and there was a rat who had just like eaten like 500,000 dollars. Good for that rat. Gorge himself. Yeah. Like of course it's like a rat in India. Like that sounds like a Twilight Zone episode. Like so that sounds like a bad genie wish or something like, I'll give you 500,000, but you're a rat.

You eat money. Well, the, the. So, but to get back to the ayahuasca blasphemy or specifically the DMT blasphemy, which is my mind does go there. My mind, like I, you know, with a lot of the psychedelics, my mind does and only just because I've been spanked so many times for doing it the wrong way that it's just like I'm not pragmatic to treat it respectfully. Yeah. And another part of me that thinks, well, maybe the idea is not for me to try to imagine that the West is going to suddenly become respectful of the sacred qualities of nature. But really realize that that just isn't going to happen. There's a disconnect that's happened with the earth and that the way to reconnect is not going to be to get people to act differently than the way they're already acting.

As they approach this thing or that thing, whatever it may be, whether it's Buddhism, ayahuasca, I think we're entering into an age where we must find solutions that are based on the world as it is. Right. Not the way it could be. Yeah. That's interesting because like in some ways I feel like I spend a lot of time like encouraging myself and others to like think optimistically and like towards like, you know, visions of the future that they're really psyched about living in. But I think it's both. Like I think it's like accepting things as they are with an understanding that like within each of us as we are, there is actually like a sincere desire to do better. That's right.

And like learning how to like really, you know, not be stupid about it. Not like assume that people are going to like magically like have some like massive spiritual awakening overnight and like just do everything differently. But like knowing like, you know, we're all full spectrum beings and like we're all like really fucked up and doing stupid horrible things all the time. And like we're children of God and like we want to like find our way back to Eden, you know, that sounded so much more Christian than I am. Well, I mean, you actually, you know, I love that I love the story of Eden and I especially all of the mystical inaccessible geographical locations that appear mythology Valhalla Shambhala. It's interesting. These places and Burning Man, which seems to be to me, I sometimes think of it as a very temporary incarnation of one of these mystical cities. Wow, I love that.

There's not enough like energy to support it in this part of the universe. So it can only last for a certain amount of time. But it does seems like it's probably one of the legendary cities or the shadow of one of those cities. I love that. Black Rock City. But the does not sound very mystical when you hear it. But when you see it, it is anyway, that I think what you're saying, which is finding our way back to that place. Yeah.

And is part of it. And the other part of it is thinking like, okay, we really a lot of people I've pretty much across the board, whether you're talking to a scientist. A shaman, a cleric, priest, mystic, anyone across the board. It's rare that you might find people who are going to say, oh, everything's perfect. That doesn't mean we don't have work to do. We're not dead. Yeah. It doesn't mean the planet's not going to die.

It doesn't mean the experiment worked. If the experiment meant that humans were going to find harmony with nature, but everything's perfect. Right. No one looks at a black hole eating a star and is like, oh, God, look at that evil black hole destroying the star. It's perfect. Yes. So, but usually what you're going to get is people saying like, well, here's what's happening. It's the age of Kali Yuga.

It's the apocalypse. We're entering the great time of change. We're entering a time of great turbulence. We're entering a time of unsustainability. We're going to run out of the soil. Is it going to support food? We're going to run out of oil. We're going to run out of bees.

We're going to run out of some primary insect that fucks the food chain up to the point that food stops growing. And then we're going to see massive, massive, massive death. Yeah. And that's one of the pathways to paradise, unfortunately, is a massive die off of humans. It is probably necessary. I think that's unfortunately one of the, one of, I don't think it's necessary at all. But I think that it's kind of like one of those things where we, you, you don't want the boss to show up to do the job. You know, ever.

Yeah, to avoid it. Yeah. Like, and especially if you've been getting like email after email after email after email after email after email. Asking you nicely, then like a little less nicely. Yeah. I'm getting pretty harsh. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, yeah, exactly. The next thing that you want is for that to step in. And, you know, look at the, we're like sitting on top of massive oceans of lava. It's not as though the earth, if the earth is a super organism, couldn't get a fever and couldn't do the exact same thing we do to whatever part of our biome is causing us problems. Yes. Yes. I think the worst case scenario for us, probably the best case scenario for like whatever, but that being said, if you look at the other story, and which I feel like you're someone who is more familiar with that other story than I am. You know that there is this very potentially tragic, poignant opportunity, possibility.

Yeah. Because we're so interconnected now. And because we can get messages to each other instantaneously. Yeah. If there were a simple kind of E equals MC squared equation, a viral equation for people to reconnect with the planet. Yeah. And re prioritize. Yes.

And someone could articulate it or a group of people could articulate it or it could be articulate through music or art. Then that wouldn't take very long to spread all around the entire planet. And meaning that it's weird how we're always like three days away from a completely harmonious, perfect, beautiful place. Three days away. Yeah. It's three days of people being like, Oh, monies. Oh, I just don't want my stuff. If everyone, everyone somehow getting fantasy world here, but everyone was like, I don't really want my stuff anymore.

Yeah. Oh, you can live in my house. Oh, you can have my car. I don't really care about it anymore. You can have all of my islands in my private and everyone did that somehow a virus broke out that made people deeply selfless. Then we would have enough for everybody. Absolutely. And the world would turn into some kind of insane planetary festival that wouldn't end.

Yeah. And so it's just a matter of like, are we going to like do that for ourselves and like, you know, take the bosses increasingly harsh emails to heart and like change the way we do things? Are we going to wait and like get ourselves fired? You know, and because either way, I feel optimistic that like, I mean, nature knows what it's doing. We're part of nature. It's going to be what it is. It's going to be perfect. You know, but it's like up to us whether we want to change our lives now or like keep living in hell.

So as a musician and a traveler and a nomad, you are encountering the people before the internet, before the Instagram, before the tweets, before. So when I was touring, that was one of the things I loved so much. And even though the sample size, so to speak, that I was encountering is based on people who are coming to see me do stand up and therefore not necessarily an accurate way to really get a sense of what's happening in the world. I would always leave tours thinking like, it's way better than we think it is. Yes. Yes. Yes. Have you gotten that sense or have you gotten any messages like that?

Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, like doing that plant medicine tour was like one, like, like you said, like there's a kind of a filtration system in place, like just the kind of person that would show up at an event that's like advertised as like a plant medicine tour, you know, there's like some self-selecting factors at play there. And that was certainly like an extremely optimism inspiring experience just to get to go to like 70 cities in the US and see people who are like devoting their lives to like harmonizing with nature and like making locally grown herbal medicines available to people. So that was rad. But also I've had vastly different qualities of touring experience like opening for like a super brutal like black metal band and like traveling in the back of their van and like, you know, the crowds were coming to see them. Wait, what band was that? It's called Zaster. X-A-S-T-H-U-R.

That's one thing I missed when I was researching this somehow. I'm sorry. I missed that. But also that's a thing where like if I had to like, I would never have guessed that. It was beautiful. It was like, and the people that I met on that trip, like that was so optimism inspiring too in like this whole other way where it's like, you know, this sector of society that I think carries a lot of stigma. And in some ways of like intentionally like aesthetically anyway, like alienated themselves and like want to be perceived as like the blackest hearts of America, you know? But it's like just actually hanging out with them.

I'm like, oh my God, you guys are like so sweet, like such sweeties and care so much and just have such strong feelings. Like, and that's why you come to like have every cell of your body vibrated by sound. Like it's really cool. It's like sound healing, you know? Oh, for sure. I mean, and also like if you think that stuff is not religious music, then you've never been there. You're making contact with God. It's just like that side of God, you know, that's a special taste.

People want to hang out with Shiva. I love it. Hell yeah. I do. You do. I know offense to Shyvites and certainly no offense to the destroyer of worlds, but I'm more of like a Vishnu Buddha person right now. No, and that's okay. But I certainly get it.

Like it's a beautiful and real and authentic assessment of life as it is. If you, if you, um, I was just looking like I saw some clip popped up of one of Rogan shows where someone was pointing out. Listen, if you are want to grow beans, you're going to have to get rid of all that whatever was living in the bean fields. Right. You're going to kill a lot of stuff. You're going to kill a lot of furry little friends. Yeah. And so, you know, somehow people don't want to like look at that particular phase of the cycle of energy that we're in.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I was like a very zealous vegan for like 10 years. And then like at some point that dawned on me. It was really when I started getting into plant intelligence and like and farming a lot. And like, I was like, oh, wow, like death is just a really inherent part of the cultivation of any life. Like if you're growing organic vegetables and a bunny comes into your garden wanting to eat your cabbage, like the farmer's going to shoot that little bunny. And like, even if something looks like a vegan meal on your plate, like there's a lot of plant and animal death. Sometimes I mean, if you're not sourcing your vegetables responsibly, it's responsibly a lot of human illness and death. Like if you're looking at like Monsanto crops and pesticides, like it's also so much more complicated than we like to think it is.

Isn't that it though? It's that's the main thing is it's like it's nuanced. It's so nuanced that the black and white perception of the world is not inaccurate. Yeah, it's always going to be wrong. It's wrong. Yeah. You're dealing with not just like the fact that the millions of different variables that go into getting anything that you're eating or drinking to you. Yeah.

It involves some level of suffering. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all pretty entangled and gnarly right now. And I think even if we remove civilization from the planet, evaporate human beings all together, you're still dealing with like, you know, fungus that can get into the brains of crickets and, you know, make them climb up onto trees and like explode. Oh, yeah. This is not an invitation. They're there for fuck it. I think it's more along the fungus.

Yeah. Yeah. Be the fungus. By the way, I have friends who, you know, their point of view on the thing is a mystical version of that, which is like, listen, hippie, you want your burn, you want your global burning man. Okay, you do that. But what we're going to do is accelerate the apocalypse because it's better that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not in the sense of like literally like do some kind of ISIS shit, but more along the lines of just like,

Let's just push it. Like that's going to happen. Like the scales need to tip at some point. So let's just get it over with. Yeah. If we have to throw up, let's throw up. Yeah, exactly. And unfortunately, the throw up they're talking about is literally a kind of like, I don't hate it.

And I think it's, to me, it's like fine, you do that. But my feeling is there is, and I think many of us are getting this sense, there's something right in front of us. Your version of it is, I think there's a way to cure diabetes. My version of it is, I think there's some kind of like memetic, viral, super condensed philosophy that has yet to be articulated. That will cause a kind of like massive decentralization, a massive release of attachment to the stuff that people are attached to. Yeah. And as, and all the other stuff will fall into place naturally. Yeah.

A kind of nonviolent revolution as Bob Thurman puts it. But if you are sort of like, let's imagine, and this is a really terrifying story that Bob Thurman actually told, which was that apparently the Buddha went to visit, I don't know, Indra. I can't remember which God, maybe Brahmin, the Kree, I don't know, the King, I don't know. Let's just God for just for the sake of. Somebody important. Not being like, I don't know, accurate God. So Buddha in the process of waking up, sitting under the Bodhi tree, goes and visits God with the intent of asking God, how do I get rid of suffering on this planet? How do I help it so I can alleviate the suffering of all sentient beings?

And God seeing Buddha says, and all the gods are, he's like in this like, you know, royal palace and all the gods are there. We've got all of them. Vishnu, Shiva, Kali, they're all hanging at Ganesh. And God, I think it was Indra, but I can't. Anyway, God sees Buddha is like, hey, you don't, you don't have an appointment, basically. Like I want to talk to you, but I'm doing something right now. So I'll talk to you later. So Buddha goes back to the Bodhi tree and then God appears and says, listen, I heard your question.

And I got to tell you something that I couldn't say in front of the gods, which is I didn't make this. I was just the first one here. Oh, wow. It's like one of those party games. Yeah, yeah. You've done it. Wow. And then the younger gods, the God started appearing and they treated me like daddy because I was the oldest one.

And I let them think I'm their dad, but I'm not. And I don't know who did it or what it is. So maybe you can figure it out for me. So if you were the one who suddenly came into this unfortunate situation, as Robert Anton Wilson puts it, by the time the final trick of the Illuminati is you realize by the time you realize that you're a member, it's too late to get out. You know, just a gradual sort of like process of being like groomed to the point of suddenly like, oh, oh, shit, I am in the Illuminati. Oh, shit, it's real. But then I think there's another trick after that, which is you realize you're the leader of the Illuminati,

because no one else would ever want to do it except you. And now you find yourself in this really difficult predicament, which is that you have to figure out a way to do what's best for everything on the planet, not just people. And what would you do? What would be your solution if you suddenly realized like shit, man, not only am I the one deactivating the bomb, I'm the one like talking to the person deactivating the bomb, telling them how to do it. What do we do is what I'm asking you. What do we do?

Damn. That's, that's a big question. You're the leader of the Illuminati. Wow. Congratulations. I guess it's all about like realizing that you too are the leader of the Illuminati. Like it's like really like I would, I would want to like immediately deflect that projection and say like I am and so are you. I feel like that's like the defining age, the defining factor of like this age of like spiritual awakening is like we can't look to each other

for that kind of authority anymore. Like it's like all about like realizing and I think that's why like Buddhism is like really enjoying this like resurgence right now in like modern times. And I think it's like at the heart of mystical Christianity too is just like it's what everybody's been saying for a long time that has gotten twisted into all kinds of different shit. Like it's like I am God and so are you. Like I'm saying this not as like a narcissistic power trip. Right. I'm just embodying a quality of presence that is possible and like you all need to do that yourself. Like I can like share what I have seen in like visionary states and like what God has told me what I have told myself when I'm like in my like highest power.

But like what works for me isn't necessarily what works for you. I don't think it's like, yeah, I don't know. I guess very wise. It's very interesting to get to just be asked that question and to witness the amount of like panic that arises in me instantly. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like don't do that. Like. Yeah.

Which is fascinating because I'm sure. Do you experience that? Like I mean you you're someone who like puts yourself out there like that a lot of people look up to as a leader and like an authority on like spirituality. Sometimes yeah. Yeah. Like it's how do you deal with that. I deal with it. I've dealt with that in different phases of realizing that is a phenomena that happens.

Yeah. So right now the way I'm dealing with it is I keep thinking of this story heard about Gandhi. Stop me if you've heard the story, which is that a mother brings her child to Gandhi and says he won't stop eating sugar. Can you help? I can't make him stop and Gandhi said, well, come back in a month. And so she comes back in a month and Gandhi looks at the kids as you stop eating sugar. And the mother's like, it took you a month to tell him to stop eating sugar and Gandhi's as well. I wanted to make sure I could stop eating sugar.

That's so beautiful. Yeah. So I think of like in relation to this sort of like realization that in some way shape or form we're all interconnected in this beautiful matrix of responsibility. We're all nodes in the web and your net of Indra the jeweled net of Indra. And I so I think of John Paul sorry you said anything you do you give permission for the world to do. Yes. So what that would mean would be if I were or you were or any one of us wanted to do this insane and very anxiety potentially anxiety provoking thought experiment of imagining that we were the leader of this or that you call it whatever you want. We were God we were Buddha we were this or that and we kind of like unfortunately got a little high on our own identity to the point where the world that normally we would be in some way shape or form.

Harmonizing got a little out of balance. It's like waking up in the morning and realizing that you let the dogs weren't in the kennel and now they've shit all over the house and it's like what do we do. So but in this case I think it's a very simple solution which is if you can't stop using plastic bottles all the time. If you can't stop driving more than you need to drive whatever the thing is that you have analyzed as being the problem of the world. If you can't stop it. We're all doomed. Forget it. We're done.

Forget it. So if you can't be compassionate if you can't be more gentle if you can't be kinder and in a real pragmatic way because those things are non quantifiable. If you can't stop eating beef. If you can't stop doing the obvious shit smoking cigarettes what a drinking booze all the fucking time if you can't stop destroying your body. Then the planet's done because everything's going to reflect you. Right. You're the microcosm and since the plague of narcissism is swept across the West and every single one of us are really dealing with a very painful situation that is human selfishness. Then I think the answer must be to instead of imagining people are going to stop being narcissistic selfish self absorbed Instagramming.

Fame hungry money. And I'm talking about myself. You don't hear like sons who says no the fucking bad tour if you don't know the terrain you're dead meat man. Yeah. So I know my terrain. Yeah. Selfish aggressive tendencies and I lazily leave lights on and use plastic bottles. Yeah.

I don't recycle when I can. Yeah. And I used to eat beef all the fucking all this stuff. It's like first. All right. What can I do here. Yeah. I feel you man.

Yeah. Like I'm I'm like a musician and on some level that sounds so nice. But then like the reality is like I make my living driving and flying around the planet burning fossil fuels and like peddling plastics. Like on some level you know like buy my LP and it's like what's that made of and how did I get here. There are so many levels to it and I yeah that's I'm very very intrigued to just like apply all of my like big picture thinking to like my little life and see like OK. Like how can I actually do like much much better and like preserve the thing that feels sacred and essential and like what I actually want to be doing while like cutting down on all those other things that I want nothing to do with in my in theory. You know. But it's like it's it's a real predicament.

We've gotten ourselves into money to function and what we think we think we do. And it seems like we do. And like all that stuff because the mind is like my mind at least right away does go to like well I know what I'm going to do. Right. I'm going to give it all away. Yeah. And I'm going to take the family will figure out a way to let get them to let us into Bhutan. And I'll just go live in Bhutan.

I'll just go be a hermit and my wife of course would be like well I guess we're going to put you in the mental hospital. You're having a manic episode Duncan. You know what I mean. But that is what my manic mind goes to. When it's like actually there's really. One thing I'll tell you and when you say things like this you sound obnoxious because you're sounding correct corrective. I'm I'm I'm I'm saying if there is an apocalypse happening right now. And if every the apocalypse is the sum total of all phenomena within the apocalypse breaking down.

Then you can only handle the part of the apocalypse that you are sitting in. You don't have to worry about the rest of the apocalypse. The rest of the apocalypse will take care of itself. Right. So if we're going to do an apocalypse then let's make our part of the apocalypse is gentle and sweet. Wow. Like there's a there's like your dream when when the angels and the butterflies were there. Let's make it like that.

Or I heard once there's a book of like there's a book of like the last things there the black box recordings of planes crashing. Oh my God. And one of them was the pilot just started singing a lullaby. Wow. It's like the end of Titanic that part is always the one that kills me when like the fiddler is like. That's right. One more time. That's all it's been an honor playing with you.

Yeah. That's how I want to go down to you. Yeah. It's like what you just said is like the kind of shadow flip side of that Jack cornfield thing you talk about all the time about like tending to your. Tend to the part of the garden. You can touch. Tend to the part of the apocalypse you can touch. That's right.

And the thing is really what is the apocalypse. It's the lifting of the veil. It's the grand final realization of our own interconnectivity. Yeah. And it's pretty trippy if like anything the Bible has to say about it is true. It's like a pretty wild ride. Pretty wild ride. But you know all you know that shit aside and again that's more mind stuff.

The reality is it's like you can do an assessment of your own life. You don't have to move to Bhutan. You don't have to become a vegan. You don't have to become a vegetarian. You don't have to cancel your tour. You don't have to whatever. But there is like you know there's nuance and actually like you know hearing you say that which is such a reflection of where I go to in my mind like all the fucking time like well I should just become a nun and like I'm a Buddhist monk like sitting on a tree. I'm a Buddhist monk like sitting on a mountaintop and like renounce everything but I'm like actually like I feel like my karma in this lifetime is about like integration and and how to like be in and of this like fucking crazy like urban matrix.

Yeah. While like really cultivating the inner peace and like modeling that for people and like trying and failing to model that well like in the chaos of the modern world. I feel like Rom Des talks about that about like why he lived in New York City. You know he's like this is like the hottest fire I could imagine. Like it would be easy to like be up on a mountaintop chilling like I'm here to be like trans transmuted by this like burning hot alchemical fire. Yeah. And I think so. Yeah.

And I think the cave desire is like sorry that's not not available to you like that it sounds like an easy way out like you just don't get to do that. Like bless everyone who is like sitting in caves meditating and praying for world peace right now like we need them and that's like that's a very specific role in the global ecosystem that I'm super glad certain individuals are holding down. But when I think about like what I'm here to do in this lifetime it's like I'm supposed to be having nuanced conversations with myself about like is this like for the greater good you know even though I'm like burning hell of fossil fuels and selling plastic like is does it make it does the music make it worth it does do like the human interactions I'm having around the music make it worth it. And it's like yeah right now yes and I want to get better at like balancing the scale so that it's even more of like a clear fuck yeah like win win situation. Well yeah we incarnated in a time where like basically just existing is like inherently you're part of the problem. Sure. Happy birthday.

Yeah. And you're fine. Like yeah I mean my god like to happy birthday. It would suck if you stopped flying and touring it would suck for a lot of people who really want to like have that experience of listening to your music live and like there is a not a tricking yourself responsibility in in that which is that you were given because you were given talent and you were given a voice and then you were given visions and then you were given the good fortune that brought you to a place where you are now a professional artist living off of your art which is already a a miracle of miracles. And so therefore it's like to then suddenly abandon your duties is similar to that Bhagavad Gita Krishna going off into the forest. It's like no.

Yeah. You have to fight. Yeah. Yeah. That actually when you just described that it sounds like that would be extremely ungrateful of me to just be like yeah well thanks for the gift but like fuck you like I don't want your gift. Yeah. What cave by the way and then you get to the cave and like you know they're all filled up and people are like sorry we waited a thousand incarnations to get into this freaking cave you go play music right now. But we need you to play music for us.

You know because because that's like whether it's the Titanic is sinking or whether the Titanic is about to transform into a interconnected sentient techno hive that sort of opens up portals to various parts of the multiverse. That we've many of us have already been taking excursions into through plant medicine or you know various psychedelics or visionary trances. The reality of the situation is you are where you're at. Yeah. And I love to think of like man what if people got airdropped into this dimension in the way people got airdropped into like World War Two except something happened where we all got amnesia. Meaning that we sort of like have a like we don't really remember our marching orders so much except we know we're here and that there is seems to be a need for kindness. And then I don't know after that. You know.

But yeah. But you still I'm sorry to hold you. I'm keeping you all too long. You didn't answer my question. You are the NPS you did make me kind of like a co-aluminati leader with you which I appreciate. But because I am a co-aluminati leader therefore sharing the same power as you. I use my power to remove myself from the Illuminati and I make you the sum total of the Illuminati the leader and therefore meaning that you and I remove from you the ability to make me anything to do with these lunatics. The cultists whatever they are whatever you guys are what do we do.

Give us our marching orders if you had to and I don't mean to put you on the spot and whatever you say of course this is just a fun game but what do we do. Listen to my album on Spotify and help me rack up fractions of pennies so that I can sell more plastics. And like just love like love more. Do you feel bad for saying love more. I do. It's not a popular opinion. I mean I feel I feel not bad but like slightly scared because when you look through history and look at the people who have like gotten up in front of people and said like hey everybody just love each other and like don't kill each other and just try to be a good person. They usually get murdered.

Right. Jesus Christ like Martin Luther King you know it's it's it's a surprisingly unpopular opinion to just be like yo love everyone. I mean Ram Dass he's doing he's doing all right. Well I mean maybe it's a spoiler. I don't know. Maybe like it's kind of like listen. Yes. But don't tell me the end of fucking Game of Thrones.

I want to watch the whole thing. So the love thing. Maybe it's just like give me a break. People came here not to be good to find that on their own. They don't need you to say it. But I'm not. I do think that that is pretty much it. It's pretty much it.

I mean it sounds like it's kind of boring because like we've heard it before or something but it's like but actually like. It's I mean and it's something that you have to experience for yourself like it doesn't work for me anyway to just like sit in a room and have somebody like tell me to love more. I'm like it's I have to go through the waves of like my own self created suffering to like arrive again and again to be like coughed up on the beach of love like by the turbulent ocean of my own suffering. Again and again. It's just like oh yeah. Gasping for air like oh yeah. Yeah. It's just about love.

You know when you get sucked back into the ocean. Yeah. The whale eats you again. No it isn't. We're going back down. It's about money and power. Yeah. Yeah.

Well I mean I. Instagram followers. Yes. It is. And but here's the thing. This is the beauty of it all is it's like the whole thing if there really were some kind of like intent to set up a hypnotic grid of narcissism. The grid is easily hacked. Meaning that.

Oh OK. Well we got to revise the terminology. You know which is like OK the love thing. It's a little confusing though it is pretty much like the to me the most simple. I mean it's like for me my son it's like I look at my son and I feel completely connected to the fundamental goodness of the universe. And also simultaneously deeply inspired to be a better person. And to by that I mean to stop poisoning myself as much as possible and to stop hurting people around me and then to make my family. My home is sacred space and not in a cheesy way.

I think about that all the time with like having a baby like I the biggest reason that I would want to have a baby is just to have like a really intense motivator to be like the best version of myself as possible. Because knowing that like this empathic sponge is like being deeply imprinted by my energy like all the time. Like I feel that just even like with being around other babies and yes it's like such a responsibility and there's such a clear mirror like instantly if you just like zone out and like get on your phone they're like what. Like what are you doing. Like what do you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's wild. But you are. You do. You are doing that. And that's the thing is like the the you you do have a baby. You do have a baby. Yes. You do have that.

We all do. Yes. It's the new planet Earth. I've actually had like like three people in as many months asked me if I was pregnant. Like totally different situations different strangers like have said something like so when's the baby do like or like so how far along are you. Or like how's the baby. You do not look pregnant. I have like a bit of like a Venusian belly but it's not like remarkable.

And so just the fact that three strangers in three months like really like overstepped like a pretty clear like social boundary to like assume very certainly that I was pregnant. I was like it must be like an energy thing. That's it. It must be like a glow. And like when I think about it I am like I am a fucking pregnant mama. Like I've got so many creative like just projects in my belly my sacral chakra. And I'm like yeah like I feel like a cosmic mother to the whole new world. Well let me tell you leader of the Illuminati great cosmic mother as a dumb person.

Unfortunately we need to spawn to have that moment of like oh my God. This being depends on me. My decisions every day directly impact this sweet sweet soul that can't do anything. Can't hold a spoon to his mouth. Can't do anything. Such a sweet soul deserves all my love and attention and fuck whoever I used to be in all my selfish things because this baby is worth so much more than that. Yes. And similarly if you spend any amount of time hanging out with the planet looking at it at the planet as it is.

And I think this would be one of the most heartbreaking things that could happen. And I think this is why they say when you have contact with the divine there's a heartbreak to it is we want to believe in this omniscient omnipotent Krishna this thing that cannot be hurt this thing. And then maybe when you really get to meet that being it's not saying let me help you. Help me. Can you please help me. Absolutely. I mean it is such a reciprocal thing like I feel that like going out into the forest or like you know I think there's this urge to like go into nature to be healed and that's like increasingly like when I go out into nature like she's like yo like I've got a lot of grief to. Express and like you can hear me can I just like well to you for a while.

And it's like we can hold each other you know and she really appreciates that too and it's like a you know we can role role play and swap with each other like she can be mama and then I can be mama. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's it. Yeah. We don't need to breed to have that feeling. But yeah that that's a real heartbreaker when you realize like oh no she just she's just like counting on you to in a way that's not vengeful it's not.

It doesn't look like Holly it doesn't look like the monster that you imagine the wrathful thing it's just a little baby that just wants to like be with you and loves you. Oh what now you can't be at war with it. And then now there's some reason to like figure it out on a real funny anyway. Yes that's so cool. I'm very excited to have met the leader of the Illuminati. I knew y'all were out there and I hope that like you can maybe I don't know get the podcast numbers up a little bit. I'm also kind of interested in the Mogue one so it'd be cool if you could send that over whatever you need me to do I'll do but. Offerings will be required but I'll see what I can do.

OK. My people will talk to your people. How can people find you. I have a website which is Johanna Warren dot com and that links to all my music and other things that I'll be working on. I have like I said I have many babies in my belly right now. It's going to be an interesting couple years. Wonderful but you got some shows coming up right. I do.

Yeah I'm playing I'm doing like a little West Coast or when will this be aired next week or this week. I'm not sure which. Great if it isn't June 16th yet. I have a little West Coast tour coming up just super chill house shows as I drive my car up the coast to get re registered in the state of Oregon. But yeah I tour a lot and yeah I'll be around. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. What a pleasure.

It's been a wonderful meeting you likewise. Howdy Krishna. Thank you. Howdy Krishna. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. Really fun. Much thanks to Johanna Warren for coming on the DTFH.

Don't forget to go to our website Johanna Warren dot com. Also much thanks to Bluetooth and Raycon for sponsoring this episode of the DTFH and thank you for listening. I love you guys and I hope that you have the most incredible weekend, week, month, year and eternity that you've ever had. I'll see you next time. Howdy Krishna. Howdy Krishna. Howdy Krishna. Howdy Krishna.