Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 534: Daniele Bolelli

Episode Date: October 28, 2022

Daniele Bolelli, one of our favorite guests, re-joins the DTFH! Check out Daniele's podcast, History on Fire, and if you like it please support his Patreon! Looking for Duncan and Johnny Pemberton's podcast? Then you're looking for The Leather Rose, available everywhere! Original music by Aaron Michael Goldberg. This episode is brought to you by: ZipRecruiter - Try for FREE at ZipRecruiter.com/Duncan East Fork - Get yourself some nice, durable ceramic pottery/kitchenware/drinkware from East Fork! A company that pays a living wage to its workers! Lumi Labs - Visit MicroDose.com and use code DUNCAN at checkout for 30% Off and FREE Shipping on your first order!

Ghost Towns. Dirty Angel. Out. Now. You can get Dirty Angel anywhere you get your music. Ghost Towns. Dirty Angel. Out. Now. New album and tour date coming this summer. Babe, I bought something amazing. Oh my God! I got a smoker. You did not!

Yeah, I did. How do you like it? It's incredible. I mean, it's incredible. I got a smoker. Now I'm ready to start smoking me. I got a smoker. Now I wonder what I'm going to eat.

Veggies, brisket, chicken or steak. Everything's my mind. I suffer when I differentiate. Come on down. The price is right. We're gonna smoke and fuck tonight. I'm gonna feed you smoked meats. And then I'm gonna suck your feet.

A bit your wool add-ons cause us all suffering. I'm gonna cook you smoked meat. And then I'm gonna eat your ass. Not a joker, not a toker. A jet-black trigger. I was smoker. Hickory dickory. Slippery people with all the jickery.

So full of juices that you can't stop licking me. Talking about the smoke a three days can't risk it. Open up the lid, Christ came back as a brisket. Double click the tongs, remove your thongs. Wi-Fi, temp control, you can't go wrong. Bitches, sniff my smoke, compare his drum. Use us on my titties, get it on the cops. Feed the titties, baby bags.

Use a smoke-screened diversion. Then just wait for the heart attacks. Wait for the heart attacks. Wait for the heart attacks. Wait for the heart attacks. I've got a smoker now. I'm ready to start smoking meat. I've got a smoker now.

I wonder what I'm going to eat. Veggies, brisket, chicken or steak. Your dying thoughts determine how you'll reincarnate. And that was Smoker by Asmodeus Crowley. You might have noticed a familiar voice in there. That's Johnny Pemberton. Can you believe it? He is really shooting up in the world.

I'd do anything to spit rhymes on a Crowley track. The album is only available right now in Dream Node 738. It's the place right next to where the wolf chases you. But, good news, the music video is about to drop on my YouTube channel at DuncanTrestle.com. P.S., did you know Johnny and I have our own podcast? We do. And we just recorded it. You can find it by going to DuncanTrestle.com doing a Google search, whatever.

We've got a great episode for you today. The brilliant Danielli Bollelli is here with us. We're going to jump right into it, but first, this. Thank you, Zipp Recruiter, for supporting this episode. You might not know this, but running the DTFH actually takes an entire team of people. Not only do I need my wonderful audio engineer, Aaron, my assistant Nicole, but I also have to have trained anesthesiologists to put me to sleep at night with a cocktail of drugs that I couldn't administer to myself without definitely risking my life.

Not only that, but I have to have a hot tub engineer, a heated swimming pool engineer, foot masseuse, back masseuse, three dominatrixes. You get the picture. It requires an excellent team. And if I ever need to hire anybody else, you better believe that I'm going to be using Zipp Recruiter. Whether you're hiring for a podcast or for a growing business, there's only one place that makes it easy. Zipp Recruiter. And now you can try it for free.

It's zipprecruiter.com slash Duncan. Zipp Recruiter uses its powerful technology to find and match the right candidates up with your job. You can easily review these recommended candidates and invite your top choices to apply. Four out of five employers who post on Zipp Recruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. So if you love the DTFH and you want to try Zipp Recruiter for free today, you need to remember our special URL. It's zipprecruiter.com slash Duncan. Once again, that's zipprecruiter.com slash d-u-n-c-a-n.

Zipp Recruiter, the smartest way to hire. Friends, I am headed on the road. If you go to dougatrustle.com, you could see all of my dates. The soonest one is going to be in Fort Worth at Hyena's Comedy Club. And then in Dallas, you could find the links at dougatrustle.com. You can find the links at dunkatrustle.com. Also, if you don't want commercials in the episodes of the DTFH, go no further than patreon.com forward slash DTFH.

You can also hang out with us. We've got a weekly meditation and a gathering every Tuesday and Friday, just about. All right, everybody, get ready. With us is one of my favorite guests. He's got a wonderful podcast called History on Fire. I couldn't recommend a podcast more. He's so funny. He's so cool, so brilliant, and such a sweetheart.

You got to subscribe. You can find it by Googling it or going to dougatrustle.com. Now, everybody, welcome back to the DTFH. Danielli Bollelli. Mr. Bollelli, it's good to see you again, man. How are you doing? I'm always so happy when I get to chat with you. I know.

I was looking forward to it this morning. We're taking the kids to school. I'm like, oh, fuck, I get to talk to Mr. Bollelli today. We've never had a bad podcast together. I don't think so. We're making it at this time. Oh, yeah. Yes.

Yeah, for sure. Yes. You know what I'm completely obsessed with? And to be fully honest, why I'm late right now to this is. So I've taken the deep dive into AI animation. Yes. You know that thing that's in everybody's head? It tells you, well, you don't do that or you can't do that.

There's no way you're going to figure that out yourself. Somebody else does that kind of shit. And so I'm like, wait, why do I think I can't do this crazy AI animation shit that people are doing? Because I went on these YouTube video tutorials, did some arcane shit on a Google Drive. And now I'm like making a music video about my smoker and I'm trying to like animate the entire thing with AI

and it's the trippiest shit you ever saw. What are your thoughts on AI, Danieli? If you put any time considering what's happening right now as far as what humans can do with AI. I guess two thoughts. One, before we even get to AI, just the process of what you're doing, I'm loving it. Because the reality is that I'm a horrible example

of what you're describing where I always feel like unless I already know how to do it, unless somebody who's really good at something has taken me by the hand and showed me the rope at every step of the way. I get impostor syndrome and I feel like I can do this. So it's funny because like I used to, in our household, I used to be the one cooking all the time. But I had, you know, my, I don't know, 15 things

that I cook well and that's it, right? To learn one new thing would be like apocalyptic events. My lady eventually who couldn't cook what shit started cooking within three months. She was making insane things that I'd be like, how do you even, or like sometime I'd be like, hey, what do you want to eat? She's like, I don't know.

And she puts out random ingredients from the closet, makes them and they are amazing. And they're like, where does that confidence come from? That I severely laugh. You think it's confidence? I think so. I think it's a fear of failure thing. Like I don't want to be the one who then put a bunch of work

into something and then I'm going to be feeding my family and everybody goes like, what's this shit? And you don't want to be embarrassed by a shitty meat. Exactly. I see. You know what? Maybe part of being a comedian is we have humiliated ourselves. So many times in front of people that it's not confidence.

As much as just like, I know the feeling. If I whip up some fucked up thing, it's like, yeah, I know. It sucks. I fucked everything up. But it's, you're just like, yeah, I mean, I've been eating shit in front of people. You know, someone being like, this brisket sucks. You're like, yeah, well.

But that's good. That makes you brave and experimental and adventurous, which is what's happening right now. So I love that part to start with. AI specifically stripping, because, you know, you never want to be the guy who was like, back in my day, we didn't use these default devil shit. It's horrible.

It's horrible. We should. So, you know, you don't want to be that guy. At the same time, it's obvious that, you know, we have all grown up watching Terminator. There are some concerns here and there with where things can go. So I don't know. Because of course, you know, it's not the,

if we're talking about AI to make art or AI to be whatever the hell. Why not? You know, it could be, it could be ways to, we are already using machines for everything we do. We are just taking it several notches up, right? Of course, there's always the fact that throughout history, there seems to be a pattern of people being dicks and finding ways to use any new technology to acquire power

and screw everyone else over. So it's almost a matter of time before you literally, and again, I don't want to be overly stereotypical, but the Terminator army doesn't seem like that much of a stretch. Well, look, I'll tell you this. Do you know how long it took me before I started generating pornographic images of many of my friends once I realized I could? Like it was within 10 minutes of recognizing what it would do.

It's like, all right, it's definitely time to like start generating porn with my friends right away. First thing I went to. So yes, I am a degrader of the incredible technology. It was part of experimenting. You know, as far as the AI army stuff goes and things like that, I think what's really interesting in the phenomena itself is that there are, like there's lots of controversy around even saying what you just said,

like people who are really in the AI, they're, they get kind of defensive. They're like, you know, that that AI is, it's us. It's trainable. It's not going to run amok. It's don't listen to the side of it. AI is us. That's not fucking reassuring me. That's terrifying.

Same. When they're like, but they, what they mean is like, you know, the, the, the, yes, there's no way to like frame it in a way that isn't like somewhat spooky. Right. The other thing that they'll say is it's not like, you know, this is my favorite like argument with AI there. I just saw this Twitter thread of someone sort of presenting that we shouldn't call it AI at all.

It's not intelligence. It's algorithmic retrieval, you know, of whatever it is you want from servers. And I'm sure it's going to catch on. It's not going to catch on, but I kept thinking like, well, to me, where, where that's funny is like, what the fuck do you think you are? Like you think aren't, I mean, aren't all humans in some way or another just running an algorithm? That's our personality.

And the retrieval mechanism is whatever we tend to focus on in our environment, our algorithm, the algorithm, our personality picks certain things out. We pay attention to it, tunes out all the other shit. Right. Like, isn't it essentially the same thing except we're less efficient? Right. Yeah. I mean, about that, that's why the, the argument is just like cause is like,

yeah, but a much more efficient and efficient meaning in anything, right? Efficient can mean paradise. Efficient can mean do fantastic things that we can only dream of. Yeah. Or it could be horrendous because you don't get to pick just which half of the circle you want in that, you know. And I think that's the issue with AI that of course it offers fantastic possibilities, but just as it offer fantastic possibility to also offer the other side

of what the new money is, you know, whether you are thinking about, the AI has the ability to develop more along the thinking feeling lines or just because it's a dumb robot who does whoever the builder is, but the builder is a dick. And now you have a real problem because you have a very efficient thing that does whatever the dick creator wants. To me, if you, like, if you want to find a case in point right now, it's the, it's that we're automating processes that used to be sacred to humanity. Like the fact that right now in the background of my computer, well, it's

really, it's running on a Google GPU right now, but in the background of my computer right now, I've just given it commands for scenes I want in a music video. And I mean, I could go look at it right now. It's, yeah, it's doing a really great job of turning vegetables into a saint meditating into, in a forest. Like it's just doing it. Like, not only could, not only is there no fucking way, there's no fucking way

that I in a million years would be able to animate something like what it's doing in, you know, less than 10 minutes, but it's, there's no way. I don't, I mean, anyone who wanted to hand draw what it's doing right now or paint or whatever, I don't know. I'm sure it could be done, but I'm pretty sure that it would take it, take that person so long. So I think that like that's, if you want to find the thing that sure, I get the robots are scary as hell.

But to me, the thing that's like really sinister, I guess, is just that we're embracing the automation of everything. I mean, it can't be controlled. It can't be stopped. I love it. I can't afford to pace up. Like if I wanted to find some like animator who knew how to do after effects and was like, Hey, man, can you make a really psychedelic video for my stupid song

about my smoker? They'd be like, Yeah, sure. Motherfucker, it's going to be like $15,000 could take me four months or two months or a month or I don't know. Look, I wish I could pay you, but it's just a dumb song I made in a couple of hours about my smoker. So I'm not going to, you know what I mean? So to me, that's where that's where it's like, Oh shit, like it's going to

just, it's going to wreck industries. It's going to wreck industries. And I mean, that's the name of the game, right? Sinks are constantly changing. I mean, even something that has been around forever that is experiencing a bit of a crisis because if you look at like publishing industry, writing books, yes, you know, the number of people, like what I'm eating from people in terms of what's considered a best seller now would have been a joke

15 years ago, would have been a complete failure because people are not buying books, you know, people are not reading. I mean, they are reading online. They are reading on other ways. They are the number of books that get read. And so you figure out like, is it good? Is it bad? I mean, of course it's bad in some ways.

There are other things though that 15 years ago would have been, you know, like the whole podcasting industry made out of thin air, you know, wasn't even on the radar 20 years ago. You know what I mean? So it's kind of like, again, good or bad, it doesn't fucking matter. That's where the wave is going. And you need to figure out how to write it, regardless of whatever judgment we want to give, because our judgment at the end of the day doesn't mean shit.

You know, it's like, this is where it's going, whether you like it or not. Figure out how you can write a wave in the best way possible. And hope for the best, because you really can't do much else. Right. I mean, like, you know, like, I don't want to get sinister about this stuff. I do, before I bring up this next point, I do think it's curious that most people that I know, when I show them any of this AI animation specifically, their reaction to it is just like what you said in the beginning,

they're like, this is satanic, or this is this is demonic. Like, it's like, across the board, there's some like recoil that happens where you're like, wait, what? What do you what do you think that is? I mean, I think some of it is understandable fear of change, which is understandable, but that doesn't mean it's good. You know, because the reality is that that's what every new invention has created. But I'm talking about, I don't think sorry to cut you off.

I don't think that they are looking at it and thinking, oh, fuck, this is really going to upset many of the industries out there around creation. It's more of like an instantaneous like. Yeah, but I mean, like, I don't know if you remember like when when you were a teenager and people who were in their fifties would talk about remember back in the day when you would have your like Sony Walkman and you walk around with your headphones being able to listen to whatever music you want. And everyone was like, these fucking stupid kids, they look like they are in their own world.

They look like this is going to be lead to the alienation of society and two people not talking to each other and everybody being stuck in their own little world. Right. There was a 2% of truth to that. There are some aspects like, well, actually, but most of it also was paranoia and unwarranted fear. And I think that's what happens a lot. Now, in this case, more extreme, because it's not just a change like you put the TV in your living room, which again, greeted with both adoration and fear.

And this is the devil doing it kind of thing. This is even more so because he's slipping progressively forward and forward away from a direct human control. Right. And so, of course, it creates even more anxiety than the normal innovation would create. Right. Right. I think it's a normal thing that happens every time, but it's magnified because it's more extreme, more dramatic and less tied to human beings.

Well, the point I was going to make before that is, you know, let's say you're some feudal lord or something and you've got a little keep or some shit and some people working on your land. And all of a sudden somebody comes running in and they're like, they're these motherfuckers and they're on horses and they drink the horse's blood. They kill, they just kill everything and they're coming this way. And you're like, oh, really? Do they have armor? No.

They just have bows and arrows. They don't really have armor. Okay. Well, I'm just going to send out some of my knights in armor. They're going to take these motherfuckers out and then the knights go out and the fucking Mongol Lord, they're faster. They don't have armor. They're fast. They can like, they're not following any stupid chivalry rules and they just slaughter you, slaughter everything.

To me, that's what we're looking at is it's like, you know, while all the stuff is going on, the midterms, the shit going on in the UK with trust, all the geopolitical Ukraine. It's like, this is happening. This is the real thing, man. This is the thing that's like, it's coming. There's no way to stop it. It's going to completely upend human culture, everything that we understand as like how you spend your day. And to me, very few, very few people are commenting on it.

That's why I'm fast. It's so apocalyptic, you know, it's so fucking apocalyptic. And I think the issue there is that, you know, the history of humanity has been this history of people developing better and better tools to be able to affect their environment, their lives, everything around them in fantastic ways. Yes. They're remaining the same dumb apes that they were tensillion years ago, in the sense that sadly, the human intelligence is clearly really high. Human wisdom, you would be hard pressed to make a point that people are incredibly wiser over the centuries, you know. Right. So that's the problem that, you know, you develop more powerful tools with the same degree of wisdom.

That's not a good thing, because, you know, it's like you want, it's kind of like if you have a seven year old and you start introducing them to drive in a car and shooting guns. It's like, there's nothing wrong with the tools themselves, but this poor dumbass does not have, does not have what it takes to handle them in a good way. She is going to get angry because there's no wisdom to know how to actually use these things in a way that works. This is some of the coolest pottery I've ever seen in my life. This is authentic, magical stuff from Asheville, North Carolina, made by people who care about their employees and are trying to run an ethical business. All that stuff is wonderful. The fact that they make sure everyone has a living wage, the fact that they ethically source all the stuff they use to make their products, the fact that they give a lot of their money to various wonderful organizations. I love it.

But the thing that really matters when you're ordering pottery is that the pottery is incredible and this stuff is awesome. You're going to feel like Galadriel from Lord of the Rings sent you pottery when you order this stuff. It's amazing. You want to blow someone's mind with it, with an awesome gift. This is what you want to give them. It's East Fork. You got to check them out. EastFork.com.

I had a long conversation with them. They're super cool. And I'm telling you, you are going to love their pottery. Again, it's EastFork.com. Check them out. If you can't remember that, the link is going to be at dunkitrustle.com. Treat yourself or your friends with some beautiful, magical pottery from Asheville, North Carolina. Thank you, East Fork.

What is the difference between intelligence and wisdom? I think intelligence is specific. It's like you can put together good sentences. You're well spoken. You can put two and two together in a way that leads to some specific outcome the way you want. Wisdom is having the sense of knowing which one are desirable outcomes and which one not so much for a greater perspective. For the greater good. There are plenty of people out there that you look at there and you say, are they intelligent?

Yeah, sure. I mean, you listen to them speak and you're like, yeah, this is a well-read person who clearly understood. But then you listen to the conclusions they draw. And you're like, oh my God, I would have much rather you be a happy peasant 500 years ago and just be maybe simpler but nice. I mean, think about how many intelligent people were part of the Third Reich, right? Probably a lot. There were a lot of... Yeah, they all got jobs at NASA, didn't they?

Exactly. Really smart. But obviously what we want to talk about and by wisdom, I mean really something that make a qualitative positive difference in humanity that creates... And some of it, of course, is my own standards, right? Some of it is, I think that wisdom is measured in how happy you make the people around you, how well you raise your kids, how good you are of a neighbor, how you can create them situations around you where you get a happy life but not at the point of fucking over everyone else. To me, that's wisdom, right? Yeah, it's okay.

I love it. So that, to me, is the goal. Intelligence for intelligence sake not only doesn't interest me, but in some cases can be downright dangerous. Like it can be a bad trait, not a good one. Some of the smartest people I've ever seen are miserable. Yeah. Like it's an actually, it's like a personality style. The miserable, smart person.

Like that's a whole thing that people love to do. I'm fucking smart, but I'm so cynical, skeptical, miserable, unhappy, selfish, self-absorbed. That's the other thing. You know, I think if we're going to differentiate intelligence from wisdom, intelligent people can be incredibly purely self-absorbed. Whereas like, it seems like with wisdom, because you've recognized at some point like, I'm a miserable motherfucker and your reaction to that is not, oh, cool. I'm going to make a thing out of this. Like how do I un-miserable myself? And then you start realizing maybe, oh, it seems like the less self-absorbed I am, the less miserable I become.

And then from there you start like getting into like activities that really smart people might seem simple and a waste of time or something. Right? 100%. That's why to me, I really like that image that Zen Buddhism uses, that Taoism uses of like these three stages where you start at a stage of ignorance, where you are spontaneous, you have a certain natural spontaneity to you, but you're also fucking ignorant, so it comes with some problems. Yeah. In the next stage you become learned, you learn a lot, but you carry knowledge as this heavy burden in your head, so now nothing is simple, everything is super complicated, everything. And this is seen as the opposite of ignorance, which in some way it is, but qualitatively you really haven't made a step up, because now you're, whereas what they see as the third stage is where you move beyond intelligence, where you absorb what you needed to absorb from being cool, cool, smart, but you turn that into actual wisdom.

And when you do, you no longer carry knowledge as this heavy burden, you are no longer cynical, you return to a state of being somewhat more spontaneous, but is a deeper spontaneity, a spontaneity that has a heart, that has soul, that has a certain energy to it, that is not the same as where you started. And what I see is that most of the time instead we get stuck with this debate between ignorant versus intelligent, where really there are two stacking stones towards something greater, because neither one of those are any good if you get stuck in that. Ah, that's so cool. Yeah, it's like the big battle is between the intelligent people who think that the problems of the world are because of the ignorant people. And the ignorant people who think the problems of the world are because of the elites, the intelligent people manipulating and bugging everything up when we're weirdly they both are equally probably responsible, not responsible literally, but responsible in the sense that, I mean, this is so infuriatingly simple, but like, if you are unstable, whether you're intelligent or ignorant. In other words, like if you are prone to mood swings, mood changes, sometimes you're up, sometimes you're down, sometimes you're angry, sometimes you're happy.

Then that means everyone around you has to take part in your instability. Like, you know, they mean like you're destabilizing your environment. You live in an unstable world if you're unstable, everything around you is going to mean you're going to just see reflections of it and everyone. Oh, shit, is he in a good mood today? Right. Oh, good. He's in a good mood. Oh, no, they're in a bad mood.

Oh, no, here we go. It's a bad mood day. And that's so awful to do to the people around you, really. Some people don't. I mean, it's not awful if you can't help it. But what's better than like when you run into somebody and you realize that in the midst of your never ending cyclical ups and downs, they're basically like stable. They're not freaking out. That's wisdom.

Right. And that really does calm shit down around it. Because I think the whole like, like, freaking out is amplified if somebody else is participating in your freak out. Or anyway, whether they're participating by trying to calm you down, you know what I mean by telling you shit or participating by saying, why are you freaking out? There's nothing wrong or more commonly by freak. Oh my God, there's something wrong. You know, like, yeah, so yeah, if intelligence and ignorance, I think that's one of the qualities of both of them. Like frequent shifts in emotion based on external phenomena.

Right. That's, and that's, I think I see that a lot with my lady, because people who look at me read the stuff I write, listen to podcasts and go like, oh my God. He's so smart, blah, blah, blah. And then like I have been a lot in my life. Exactly what you described is very emotionally volatile, being all over the place, experiencing super happiness, super sadness, which again is fun. There's something great about it to be able to experience everything. But when it's out of your control, it gets tiring for yourself and for everybody around you. Yeah.

And instead I look at her and, you know, she doesn't write books. She doesn't. She speaks very little with most people. She's very quiet. And she has this happy, calming presence that seems to be unaffected by anything that goes on around her. And I'm like, who's the Zen master here, man? It's like, I rather learn from her. It's like, fuck everything I've been doing, everything I've read, everything I've won.

It's, I want to be like that. I want to learn that person. And I think there's, at the end of the day, you are who you are, but I think there's something good about being honest with who you are, you know, not hiding it, not trying to, and at the same time take responsibility, not use diesel. I am being who I am as an excuse to dump your shit on everyone else. So in my case, I've seen plenty of time when my mood swings are hitting me hard or something. I'm not going to hide it. You know, I'm going to communicate. I'm going to tell my daughter what's going on.

I'm going to tell my lady what's going on. But I'm also going to make a point to try not, so I'm just going to kind of show them a window of what my process is, what I'm going through, what I'm trying to do. But I'm also making a point that it's absolutely not fair for me to dump it on you. So it's just my shit. I will get out of it. Don't worry. It's all fine. I just need some time to myself because I just need to go through my process.

But, you know, and the way you're both offering a chance for people, like you're not lying to people, you're not presenting a facade that does not reflect what's going on inside of you. You're being straight up. They are being straight up in a way that again is not, is not saying, hey, here is all the shit I carry with me. Let me dump it all around the house and over you guys because that's obviously not fair. Yeah. Yeah. That's the, so it's like the, the thing that pops up in Buddhism is if you can help, help. If you can't help, don't hurt.

And so that's the, the, I think talking about these like phases that you're talking about. What, like where you, I think maybe where you shift, where you start, where the shift starts happening is you recognize, oh, okay. My reactions, like my feelings, I speak from personal experience. My feelings don't necessarily seem appropriate for the phenomena that's inducing the feeling. So this thing happens, that thing happens and you real, you're consumed with shame or anger or whatever. And at some point you're, if you're lucky, you're like, oh wait, why, why would that person saying that to me fill me with such powerful emotion that I would, you know, translate that emotion into some kind of aggression. And so that the first step seems to be like that you, you recognize, oh shit.

Okay. Wait a minute. This feeling I'm having, it's number one has nothing to do with the phenomenon. Yeah, maybe someone did something annoying, but why am I reacting? Like I just saw a bus go off a bridge and catch on fire with people running out of it screaming. That seems a little weird, right? Like what's going on there? What is that?

So then you, that's when you start. Okay. I'm, I'm, I can't stop with the way I feel, but I can tone down my reactions to the way I feel. That's the, that's cool. That's a cool thing, but still you're encumbered. You're still encumbered. You still are having these fucking meltdowns inside of you, these explosions. So then the next step is, I think really addressing that, like that's where you, you, you, you, because I know that like in the past, I would know this was happening.

And I would be okay at repressing it, but eventually it's like, fuck, what is that? Like literally what is emotion itself? What is this in me that what the fuck is it? And so then you start, you start working with it. You start working with it. I think that's, and then you get to the possibility where holy shit, maybe those explosions literally stop happening inside, inside. You know, that's possible, Danielli. Don't you think like that is possible?

I got a story for you. So yeah, that's interesting that you bring that up because for one, actually, let me say one quick thing first and then I get to the story in that sense. One is that despite the fact that clearly is not a happy place to be to be bounced by emotion left and right and out of your control. I am thankful for most of my life have been being this super highly passionate person with crazy emotions, even when it was uncomfortable and horrible. Because I feel that it allows me to relate to pretty much anybody. Like I can somebody going through something and I'm like, I know exactly that emotion. So in that sense, there's a part of me that likes it because I feel that more tools to interact with human beings and understanding of other people, emotions and where they're at. But check this out.

So for reasons that are entirely out of my understanding, the past year of my life, something clicked in a way that it's interesting because I've become a very different person in the last year. From who I was before. I give you an example just starting with something seemingly silly, but I don't think so silly. Like my entire adult life. I've had insanely violent dreams on a regular basis. Right. Punisher style, blood everywhere. Really gory stuff.

Two to three times a month at least kind of thing. To the point where it was like, yeah, you know, I was in there and I cut this guy's throat or there was attacking me and there was blood everywhere. And you're like, whoa. And it was normal for me. It's just how I live my entire life. The past year, I don't have them anymore. And I'm like, what the hell has shifted in me where suddenly it's not out of a conscious effort or wheel or anything. It's just they evaporated.

Like they don't show up no more. And you know, it's something that's outside of my conscious control that would happen all the time that's no longer happening. That seemed to signal a shift. Yeah. And in general, I'm noticing something really changing my way I handle stress in the way I respond to situations in my overall attitude toward life. And the funny thing is that usually when something that dramatic happens, there's a story there. I have like, you know, I was miserable and I was struggling and I had this and that and I went to Peru and did ayahuasca in the middle of the jungle and the world change and I'm now enlightened or something. None of the shit ever happened to me, right?

I've tried pretty much every other method I've heard of and nothing ever made that dramatic shift. This, you know, light from the sky that changes the trajectory of your life from the breathing to psychedelics to whatever. Some stuff has helped. Don't get me wrong. But like 2% where you're like, okay, that was nice. I like 2%. But let's be real. It's 2%.

You know, it's not. And yet one day I wake up and I'm in a very different place from where I was before and I have no idea what happened. You know, because it's almost like my guess is that is a sum of 10,000 things and probably a certain degree of lack involved. Why things suddenly shift? But it's almost like the Zen coin, you know, when you hear that story about there's a dark, alive duck inside the bottle. You want to get the duck out without breaking the bottle, which of course physically is impossible. Yeah. And then the Zen guys tell you it's already out and you're like, what do you mean it's already out?

It's not. You just told me it's in the bottle itself. And yeah, this is exactly the thing I'm experiencing where sadly I'm like, wait, was I in the bottle before? How the fuck did I get out? Did I fall asleep for a second? What just happened? Okay, I've got another one just that's exactly the same one. A student, a Buddhist student is on one side of a river.

His teacher's on the other. He says to his teacher, I want to get to the other shore. His teacher says, you are on the other shore. Same does. I like the duck one better. It's cool. But you know, this is the, you know, it's a very exciting thing to hear that. I'm glad to hear that that happened to you.

And it's, I think that, you know, you know, Buddhism, they call it ordinary mind, right? So it's like this mind of like, it's the mind where you think that phenomena have to be organized in a certain way to experience peace. And the more complex that organization of phenomena is, the less, definitely the less peace you're going to have. You know, it's like you're either going to be working with, you know, a kid's puzzle or some people like those insane, like 50,000 pieces. You know, it's so important. So some people, that's their reality is like, they have 50,000 bits of phenomena that have to line up perfectly. And if they come close to that, they start feeling relaxed and then they're like, Oh, great. But most of the time that's just not going to happen.

The world is too turbulent. The puzzle pieces are always falling off the table there. This knocks them down, that knocks them down. And so they, instead of like the real realizing like shit, maybe I need a simpler puzzle going on here. They start blaming this fucking cat always knocks the puzzle pieces off the table, the wind, the this, the that, my husband, my ex husband, my future husband, my lack of a future husband, my lack of a future wife, blah, blah, all these things. And so you're always turbulent, turbulent, turbulent. Then the thing you're, I think is you just realized like, why do I keep fucking with this puzzle? Like what happens if I just stopped trying to put it together?

What happens if I just realized it's already put together? In fact, the puzzle that the puzzle wasn't is broken. That's the puzzle. The puzzle is a scattered thing all over the place. Yeah. And then you then that thing can happen. I mean, this is the. You hear, I'm sure you know, you hear various iterations of this across the board, but it's like, this is your mind.

Like whatever's going on is literally your mind. I don't mean like solipsism or like I'm God. I mean, literally you're taking in data, assembling it inside of your brain. And from that assembly, you've got some depiction of reality. It's your mind, the colors you're seeing, the words you're hearing, the way you instantly assemble words and shapes into something that you call reality. You're experiencing your mind when someone's annoying you. That's your mind. The feeling of annoyance.

That's your mind. That's your mind. You know, and so I think that once you realize that it gets really exciting because it's like, oh shit. What happens instead of working on training the poodle, training the kids, training my wife, training my friends, training, trying to literally domesticate the universe? What happens if I start training my mind instead? And then, yeah, it's not like you might not have the road to Damascus experience. You might not get the praying man as that tells you you're Jesus or whatever. But it could just happen that you wake up one day.

And you're not quite as neurotic as before. I want to thank God for creating Loomi Labs, which supports the DTFH because Loomi Labs created microdose gummies and these microdose gummies that they create are perfect. It's the perfect dose. I'm telling you, no more worrying about whether or not there might be microscopic spiders living inside your spine when you give yourself the wrong dose of edibles. They've dialed it in. You just eat one of their delicious gummies and relax. Even better, they're available nationwide. You can fly with these wonderful things.

I take them on the road with me. They help me fall asleep and I love them. Please, microdose, can you send me more? To learn more about microdosing THC, you can go to microdose.com. Use code Duncan to get free shipping and 30% off your first order. Links can be found at DuncanTrestle.com, but again, it's microdose.com, code Duncan, you are going to love these gummies. Thank you so much Loomi Labs. I love you.

It could just happen that you wake up one day and you're not quite as neurotic as before. Exactly, that's the vibe, right? I mean, in some way, I would love to have a cool story about it, not for the sake of the cool story, but because it means that there would be a method. There would be something that I can see somebody else that I love struggling and I could be like, hey man, you can just do A, B, and C and you'll see the light and this stuff works out. I don't, you know, I have no idea. For all I know tomorrow, I may wake up and be in a very different state. I mean, it has been great for a year, but what do I know, right?

So it's like, I would love for it to be replicable where I can say, hey, if you just do A, B, C, it's all going to work out. I haven't had that experience. It hasn't been a systematic thing. We're just going through step by step by step as led somewhere. I feel like I've run like a chicken without a head in 10,000 direction and one day I just woke up exactly where I wanted to be. And I'm like, oh, shit, how did I do it? It's like, oh no, I was running like crazy all around. It's like, okay, cool.

I mean, it's nice. Of course, I like it. It feels good, but again, it would be nice to be able to use it so that you can help somebody else with it. Whereas I'm definitely not in a position to do that because I don't know what happened. Well, but I think just like any story, you know, for like all of my neurotic friends out there who like are clenching their fists or gritting their teeth at night or, you know, going through that, the hellscape of untamed mind. I think it's just nice to hear that. I mean, I think it's probably just really nice to hear like, oh, that's even possible. I mean, a lot of people don't think it's possible, Daniella.

Like a lot of people, they hear the stories. We, you know, they in a lot of neurotic people are really drawn to Taoism, Buddhism, mystical Christianity, because they have a dream like maybe these countless people who are saying, you know, you don't, you don't have to suffer like that anymore. Maybe they're not just larping or maybe they're not just bullshitting. Maybe, maybe that's a possibility. But, you know, anytime you hear someone who's alive saying like, oh yeah, that it's not really going on anymore like it used to. That's, that's exciting. Even if it's not through for, it's just cool to know.

Okay, that's a possibility. And I think in that sense, I, what you bring up is a good point because I do, if anything, sometimes when people have the method, just do what you ask, just breathe in a certain way, just meditate, just this. And then you do it and it doesn't work for you. If anything, it adds to the angst of it all because you're like, what the hell? I was a good boy. I went through step one through 10. I did everything you told me and you saw God and you're enlightened and I'm still pissed off and angry at everything. What the hell?

If anything, it adds even another layer of what the hell is wrong with me kind of thing, you know. And I think the fact that we are all fucking different and even the same person at the same, had they done the same thing at a different time in their life, it may have not worked out that way. So I think in that sense, understanding, yes, it does happen. Yes, there are steps that one can take that are more likely to lead you there than others. However, no, there are no guarantees. And so you just go try things. They work great. They work partially.

That's great too. You know, if they help you 2%, that's not a lack of success. That's still 2% better than where you were yesterday. That's fantastic. And just keep the process going because I mean, there's not like there are many alternatives. So you might as well keep playing the game and see what if something clicks, if something, and again, hopefully you start seeing what clicks for you more often than not. What methods seem to appeal to your personality and just run with that and see what happens. Yeah, man.

It's like, to me, like what, you know, the cool stories are not the people who like actually like brought peace necessarily to some land. It's the story of somebody who like went into some place and tried to help. And even in the midst of trying to help, got the shaking out of them, but they still, they still try. I mean, I think, I think like the initial phases of like bringing peace to the world, it has to start with a recognition of the your own lack of peace. And then the moment you even start contemplating like, how do I get a little more tranquility into my own heart here? You, as cheesy as it sounds, you become a peace worker. You are now, you're, you're, you have the same intent as Gandhi, Martin Luther King, any of them. And how many of you know, think of the stories of them.

They're plagued by their own weird human shit. I heard Ram Dass said once, if an asshole gets enlightened, then there'll be an enlightened asshole. So the, the, the, the, the notion of like enlightenment or peace or inner peace translating into no personality or a kind of homogenous, like, you know, you just suddenly become some kind of like boring ass personality list thing. I think that's a probably misunderstanding. And I, and a good reason for people to be like, well, then fuck that. You know, yeah, even if I am a scrambled fucked up mess, you know, that's who I am. Oh, you know, that's love.

I mean, that's compacted self. That's the, that's already shows you that you're out of the bottle because some part of yourself is loving yourself. Even if you hate yourself, you love that you hate yourself. You love the way you hate yourself. You, you already be like that is good. That's it. That's, that's really it. That's already, that's what's so cool about it.

You're, it's already there, man. It's already there. I mean, I've heard it described in a million ways. It's like a when you're out of the moment and you come into the moment, the recognition that you are out of the moment. What is that? What's the rat that that flick that way? Oh shit. I was just distracted.

Who is that? What is that? You know, that's it. That's it. That's you. That's clear as a bell. There's nothing muddy about it. Nothing confused about it.

You were like, like the other day, man, I'm looking for, I was cooking the kids oatmeal and I'm looking for the oatmeal bag. I'm like looking everywhere. Where's the fucking oatmeal? It's in my goddamn hand, man. It's like I've been carrying it around. I'm like, oh wow, I'm out of the moment. Totally distracted. That's a Zen parable right there.

Yeah. Omeal's in your hand. Yes. You know. It's in my hand. Yeah. No, it's true. It's true.

And I think it's interesting because and that's where I don't this. I mean, in some way I envy, I envy and I don't, you know, like when I was talking about my lady, like I envy the fact that she's kind of born that way. She has always been this way. She hasn't really known something else. And so one end I'm like, oh my God, life would have been so much easier from the get go. You know, it's fantastic. I love it. On the other end, I think it's like my weird quirky, annoying sometime personality is helpful in the sense that, you know, if I were to be talking to somebody who's really going through shit and being all like, let me tell you about the peace within my sweet brother.

They would beat me to death and they would be right. You know, it would just be like, shut the fuck up. What are you talking about? You know, I hate the wannabe spiritual crap when people are like, let me show you the light or something. So to me, having an extremely low experience of what what other people may have been gone through, because you have gone through the same shit a thousand times and you know that place like, you know, your own home kind of thing. It's interesting because it shows that you can be on multiple levels at the same time. Right. It's like, oh fuck yeah.

Like I you can speak the language, but you can also show that another language is possible. Yeah. Like I remember once just to I mean it's related and not but like I remember once there was a student of mine who came from the ghetto is ghetto you can think of like, you know, south central LA dead people on this block on a regular basis from. Drive by shooting kind of things and he would come to class and he would really dig some of the stuff we talk about. But there was always an element in him that said, did you read this shit in a book because it sounds cool, but I don't know about an experience like, and the one time where things click for him was when we were, he came to do martial arts with me. And he was from the ghetto. So a little rough around the edges, even though he knows you're supposed to keep it down inspiring, he was still going a bit hard. And he just nailed me with a punch.

And then I was a good punch. And then I took his back and choked him out. Right. And by the idea and put him out out, but you know, I choked him where he and then he looked at me and he was like love in his eyes. Right. Because he was like, oh, so it's real. Like all the shit you talk about, you can take a punch in the face and stay cool. And now you're speaking my language, you know what I mean?

Okay, now I'm going to listen to whatever bullshit you have to say about the universe because you show me that you can act in the world that I'm familiar with and act in a way that to me is honorable. That's how you do shit. So, okay, that means like, it's not just that you talk about the shit you talk about because you don't know how to act in my word. You know how to act in my word and you can take two steps beyond it. Okay, now I'm interested. Let's talk about it. Yeah, that's it. I mean, that is the general traditional classical way of talking about it is like, because you don't really like the, you're not supposed to earbeat and God knows I'm guilty of it.

And especially when I'm like, in times when I've been really freaked out, like if you don't recognize everything's your mind, then it's a natural thing to try to calm shit down by telling other people about some shit you heard about how to calm down. She's like, okay, wait, maybe if I get everyone around me to start meditating, then I will calm down or, you know, you're pretending to be calm. Yeah. Really, you've just become a master at repression. Yes. Exactly. You know what I mean? Like you just really figured out a way to like hold in the fart.

You've been holding, you know, you've like pulled off like holding it for a month. But so, so yeah, you're holding it all in. You're still tormented, but you're putting on a pretty good show. And then part of putting on the good show would be, now let me teach you how to hold in a fart. I'm an expert at holding this in. Yeah. You know, and I'm going to teach you as well. And then all that you have is a bunch of people with fucking tight butt cheeks around you at the best filled with gas.

Just a matter of time before someone can't hold it in anymore. A matter of time. And then it's like, oh, who are you? You're not, you're not the person I, I married. Yes. Yes. So it's, I think it's more about like, you know, you know, it's all, it's always goes back to like, you know, why are you, don't try to take a stick out of your neighbor's eye when you've got a look in your eye. Don't, don't do that.

And then, because truly like you, what's more astounding than being around someone like what you just described, where when the fucking shit goes down. They're not freaked out at all. And they're not like pretending to be calm. They're actually calm. Like that's, I think that probably just being in the presence of that would be reading 100 books on this mystical thing or that mystical thing, just watching it in the wild go down would be incredible. I would guess. Like that's, that's the real way to, if you want to talk about this. And then if someone's like, how the fuck did you do that?

Like I was so scared. I was freaking out. Did you stay calm? Then you could say, oh, well, you know, this is whatever my practice is, or this is what I find interesting. But yeah, before they ask you. Yeah. And I think in that sense, keeping it real though is key. Right.

Because the problem with everybody who feel that they have anything to contribute ever is that they start taking themselves too seriously. They think that their shit doesn't stink. They think that their methodology is the one methodology for all and everybody. And instead realizing that there's a huge element of luck in any achievement. So let's tone it down in the sense that whatever somebody has done, keep it humble because at the end of the day, you're also lucky. You know, if you apply enough pressure, trust me, you will crack. No matter how enlightened you are, you know, we have two eyes is to start applying electrodes to your genitals. Let's see.

Maybe not. I don't know if I agree with that. There could be some chance. No. And I agree actually with you in the sense that I think there are degrees, right? The amount of pressure that you need to be under varies from person to person. Some person can be fantastic at minimal pressure. Some person can handle a certain degree.

Some person can handle degrees that we can't even imagine. And then you wonder, maybe they can handle any. Daniela, did you just discover a way to measure enlightenment by putting pressure on someone's balls? Yes, that's exactly. This is incredible. The Vilelli Enlightenment Scale. We bring you in. Okay.

You're realized. Okay. We're going to just gradually increase pressure on your balls. Even then. Even then it's funny, right? Because of it. It's a joke or whatever. Rather you do see these guys who are like ultra tough guys who can do these amazing things

that other people would crack in fear and terror and they are monks and they are amazing. But then you leave them an afternoon to have to entertain a kid and they flip out, right? Right. So it's like a skill in handling one aspect of life doesn't necessarily mean that you have the same skill in all aspects of life. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah.

I get it, man. You got to be honest about the whole thing, whatever it is. But you know what else you have to be? You have to be fucking honest about when you aren't freaked out anymore too. Yeah. Because some people make a whole business of being professionally freaked out. Yeah. You know, that's what Jack Cornfield called me a public neurotic and like, you know what

I mean? It's like if you, if you start feeling like you're not quite as neurotic as before and you don't say that, you're as guilty as when you're neurotic. It's like it's saying that you have peace. You know, you just have to be honest about wherever you're at with it. But I do agree, man. It's like, I don't want to hear shit from a person. It's just like, you know, I actually was talking up to my meditation teacher about the phenomena

of the Tulkus, the kids who are like taken into the monastic training at like the age of very young ages three, four, I don't know when it starts. And, you know, like you hear that and you're like, okay, great. So they were always around like a 2,500 year old tradition of, you know, achieving peace among other things. And so what, like, well, they didn't. So they really, they didn't, they don't know what it's like to like have to get to work and fucking traffic and all the stuff and paying your bill, all the stuff.

So what the fuck do I, what do they have? What do I want to hear? But when you, when it's a maniac who you knew who suddenly isn't a maniac anymore, that's where it gets interesting because you, you know, because you're like, wait, what did you do again? And then the maniac is like, oh, I don't know, but that's really hard to do something. The maniac's like, I don't know, just woke up and I was fine. I don't know.

I fuck you. It's like, I don't know. If you want, I can tell you everything that has been going on and who fucking knows? Maybe one aspect will click with you and actually help you, but let's be real. I don't have the solution for you. So let's, which is the opposite of what all cult leaders do, right? The classic leader thing is I find something that works because usually it starts for something legitimate and then I'm just going to spin it and spin it and spin it and blow it out

of proportion and make it look like it can't fail and make it look like it works for everybody and delivers better result than it really does. And then I've built this whole cult of personality of everybody who think, oh my God, and I can do no wrong, which is the opposite of keeping it real, right? It is like you're on an ego trip and sadly, I mean, without going the cult leader route, but even at the more basic benign level, there are plenty of people, the so-called spiritual people who maybe without malice, but they kind of portray the same thing, you know, everything is about, oh, you should just breathe through this, oh, it should be.

It's all about peace and love and mellow, which I highly prefer it to psycho, evil and somebody who's a dick, but it still doesn't feel real, you know what I mean? It's still the kind of guy that like my student would go to and go like, yeah, you have no idea where I come from, what my reality is, all the peace you are talking about, I guess good for you, but you have nothing to tell me because they're just no, you live in another universe here, you know? Yeah, right, man. Yeah, I know exactly, it's like, it's a phenomena, it's a real, we live in capitalism, there's

like, you know, people who are good at portraying themselves as one thing and not being honest about all the other stuff and that's really malicious, I think it is kind of malicious in the sense that it's like, look, it's not working for you. Stop trying to tell people about shit, it's not working for you, it's not working for you, why are you acting like it's working for you, why are you promulgating something that you claim brings you some inner peace when, you know, you were just like throwing shit at the wall, like, you know what I mean, like at least say like, I've been throwing shit at the wall, sometimes the stuff works, but it doesn't work all the time.

I mean, in past versions, this is why I try to like, if I'm exploring this, I try to put out there like, man, I'm fucked up, I get angry, I was freaking out, dude, I was freaking out all the time. But it's like, you have to be able to say that if you are, but if you're not, don't say you're freaking out to try to connect to people, don't make it up, don't pretend to be, you know, whatever, dissipated or something out of some attempt to, it's condescending in that case. It is.

It is. That's why in fact, keeping it, ultimately, when you're keeping it real is because you are comfortable in your own skin, in every way, what people perceive as good sides, less pleasant, it's like, this is what I'm capable of, this is why I'm for better of worse, I may change, I may be able to switch things around, but this is what I bring to the table. And let's not edit it for the sake of only presenting, it's like when you date and you want to only present your good side at first, which you're never going to be able to keep that image down the road, and it sets up seeds for the relationship failing, because you

cannot keep up that image. But for the sake, I guess, of being charitable for people sometime who get stuck in that phase, I think there is a little bit of a fake it till you make it thing that's true because it's important not to get stuck in it, but it's understandable that initially you may have gotten a taste of something and you are desperately trying to put the focus on it over and over, it's not where you are at the core, you haven't really absorbed it, but you did taste it, so you are like badly pushing it and you want to embody it, so some of it is understandable and natural to fake it till you make it, I think so, being honest

helps, you know, being like, you don't need to fake it, you can go with it and say, these as work for me, I want to work on it, I want to improve, I want to play with it, and try it out, what do you think, oh, it doesn't work for you, interesting, I don't know enough to tell you why it doesn't, let me, you know, and you can still push in that direction without pretending that you know you put the ropes on and you are enlightened or some shit and you have the way, because that is honest, you know, that's not just fake it till you make it, that becomes dishonest, first and foremost become dishonest with yourself, which then you have precluded any possibility of growth from there forward.

Right, this is what I love about Trump of Rinpoche's teaching in this regard, when you have any of these glimpses, these things, disown it, disown it, so it's like, put it down, so what, okay, great, you had the thing, great, great, great, but that's whatever happened, in fact, what's cool about your story is you don't even know, because that's kind of what, that's the idea is like, the more you get attached to a method or the more you get attached to something that happened to you a long time ago, or the more whatever, it starts rotting in your hands, like the thing just starts rotting, putrefying, changing just like everything else, even the renditions of the stories regarding the moment of whatever

starts decomposing in your hand, like some sad fucking, you know, miscarried baby or something, it's like, you're supposed to disown it. I love your event, it's a huge show. I put, I only say that, I'm so sorry, I mean like what I'm specifically why I said that is because there's this very sad video about a gorilla that I think we've talked about this is gorilla gives birth, baby's dad, gorilla will not put the baby down, gorilla's walking with the baby, what's better than a baby gorilla is maybe cuter than a human baby, it's the cutest thing ever, enlightenment, what could be better, adorable, beautiful, perfect enlightenment,

but it's like, really it's, you gotta put it down, you gotta give it that up too, like you gotta give that up too, you gotta give up all that bullshit, put it down and then you're starting over, see this is the thing no one wants to start over, what about all the work I did, what about all the fucking books I read, what about all the fucking thing and the piece, it's like okay, whatever, let it go man, and I think what you're talking about is some people can't let it go, they can't put it down, they went to too many seminars, they went to too many retreats, they went to too many of this and that, I'm not putting this shit down, this is me man, I'm the, do you get it, I'm the fucking piece for one,

exactly how it is, that's the textbook right, and it is understandable, you know you have struggled a lot, you've been swimming in the ocean, getting your head bobbed under the waves way too many times and you've found a rock and you're clinging it to it for dear life and I get it, you know I understand, it's still a problem, but I understand why people do it, you know, I think so at the end of the day, yeah you need to acknowledge the fact that every day start a new, what worked yesterday, hopefully carries on to today, they are, the bookmakers are giving you good odds that you know if you have been able to put it string it in a row for many days in a row today may still be a good one, but there

is no guarantee, you know, maybe something will happen and you find out that you didn't have it quite as together as you thought you did, but I'll tell you this, all that being said, if via some unknown whatever or through the adoption of some method that you have rigorously devoted yourself to, if you are experiencing a reality where you're no longer quite so much in hell, you're allowed to enjoy that, because that's the other problem is like within the sort of Zen Eastern idea of like let it go, forget about it, whatever, sometimes people get confused and then they, because they get attached to the letting it go and they think that somehow that like if I use, you know, if your experience isn't going to

be, it's almost like a bad sign or it's like, oh no, I think something's happening, oh no, or whatever, I think like the place where the emptiness or the reality of you being surrounded by an infinite luminous womb where that starts touching the denser aspects of your mind that you've decided are yourself, and then from that contact comes a kind of, are you kidding me? This is real? You're allowed to enjoy that, like you can totally like you get to like go, ah, holy shit. You know what I mean?

Like you're allowed to, you don't have to immediately go fuck, I'm feeling bliss, I'm feeling bliss, is this, wait, what is this? Run with it, no, I'm a big fan of celebrating, you know, I think it's absolute, because that's the thing, you know, some people are all celebrating where they, it's like you haven't done shit, you haven't achieved anything, you are patting yourself on the back for nothing you've ever done, and it's like, I mean, I'm glad you feel good if you're feeling good and if it's not just an act, but that's a little weird. At the same time, what you described, right, there are people who are constantly beating

themselves up, even when they do fantastic things, it's like, yeah, but you know, I could have done better, or yeah, but you know, tomorrow is another day, and it's like, yeah, tomorrow is another day, but fucking party right now, you know, just dancing around naked under the moon, it feels fucking great to go for it, is it gonna last? No, but nobody's expecting you to, that if it doesn't last tomorrow, we are all judging you and say you're an asshole, it's like, it's fine, just enjoy for a while. And I think that balance where you can flex in the mirror and go like, god damn, I'm good, and then the next second you realize that it's all a cosmic joke and you can relax a little

because taking yourself to seriously is the source of many terrible things, they're both good, right, you need to have both sides to it and mix them together, because if you get stuck in only one aspect of it, you're fucked. You know the example I like, Danieli is, you know, the dreaming, like so, it's like you're having a nightmare, it's horrible, chased by a tiger is usually the example given or some version of that, you wake up and you're like, oh, great, I'm not getting chased by a tiger anymore. You don't spend the rest of your life telling people I was chased by a tiger in a dream and

now I'm not chased by the tiger. You know what I mean? It would seem weird, similarly, I think probably what might happen, one possibility in life is like, you wake up from the nightmare that was causing, there was a result of you differentiating yourself from external phenomena, and holy shit, wait, what, this is crazy, I thought I was that thing, but this is what I'm at, but eventually, that's just what you are now, you aren't going to feel so compelled to like pat yourself on the back and throw parties for yourself anymore, you know, I would guess, I have a theory that man, there are a lot

more enlightened people out there than we think, it's just some people are like, why or would I even talk about this, like they don't really feel quite so, or I guess a better way to put it would be any way that they talk is a transmission of the Dharma, they never heard those words, the Dharma, Buddha, Jesus, any of that stuff, but it just so happens that the way they communicate with people helps, no matter what, you don't have to be there's no, this is who I am, it's just that's how they are, people around them feel better, people around them just feel better in a real way, and then maybe the people around them aren't, start feeling better in a way that isn't dependent on being in their presence,

you know, and I love what you just said, because to me, sometimes when people talk about enlightened or this is like, what the fuck does it even mean, right, it's like, what are we, but you brought it to a level that's very almost measurable, right, it's like, does, does the fact that you walk into a room and interact with everyone, they walk away and their day has improved by 10%, that's a real thing, you know, that's something that is not just words, is not just the story you tell yourself, it's something that there's almost tangible effect that you can have on a situation or on people, and that's a win right there, you know, if

you can do that on a semi consistent basis, you're doing something right, however we define it, you know, who cares whether it's enlightenment or not or whatever, yeah, whatever you want to call it, it's something good, it's something that that's creating something positive in the world, I love that when I see great comics here in Austin, it's such a good comedy scene, when I see really great comics, like it inspires me, you see that and you're like, holy shit, that's possible, or like, you know, when I see people who have gone from being like, out of shape to suddenly being healthy, I'm like, oh fuck, if you did it, I could probably do it, it's, you know what I mean, it's that basic, it's just basic,

it's like, it doesn't have to be so, it's not whatever, you don't need flower garlands and incense and stuff like that, talking about something fundamentally more basic than that, which is like, it just might be, you don't have to be blown by the winds of your neurosis all day long, and some people aren't so much, and that's great news for every, for all of us. Absolutely, and I think the quality in that sense that interests me the most, you know, we started earlier and we were talking about intelligence and wisdom and this and to me, the way wisdom manifests, like where you can say that there is wisdom, I see it a lot in kindness and humor usually, because to me, they go together, you know, if somebody is a really kind, sweet

person who's doing their best to pass something good to other people around them, they have a sense of humor about life, which usually helps a lot. To me, they are doing every, that's wisdom at work right there, because they are having an impact on everything they touch, that's, oh, that's beautiful. So to me, that's worth a million times more than any bullshit intelligence in a purely brainy kind of way, because unless that intelligence can translate, like intelligence is a bonus, like, oh, now you do some fantastic things through your kindness, through your thing, and you can communicate them in a way that's smart and okay, that's fantastic, that's a tool, but intelligence is a tool, is not a qualitative state that's good or bad in itself,

is how you use it, that's interesting, and how you use it is the wisdom that manifests itself through kindness and humor and things like that. That's where intelligence interests me, otherwise intelligence is like, do I care, you know, not that interesting to me. You got a little bit longer, how are we doing on time here? Oh, I'm good. So I heard this story about the Dalai Lama, I think it was the Dalai Lava. The Dalai Lava? The Dalai Lama, somebody was asking like, if you ever, you know, mystical, but like,

was asking what, someone who was around him all the time, like, do you ever see anything like magic, you ever seen anything, you know, and they were like, yeah, whenever you, whoever he's around, he gives them his full attention, I've never seen it any other way. Yeah, like, that's wild to think about, like, you know, always just fully in the moment with whoever happens to be with him. That's incredible. You don't need to like, there's no, you don't need to articulate that in some system, system at all. It doesn't fucking matter. Like, patience, Jesus Christ, when you're around someone who's really truly patient, how wild that is, like, patience, they're not in a hurry. They're okay. Just like,

the base things are going or where you're at or whatever. They're unperturbed and there's such a difference between actual patients and fake patients. You know what I mean? It's such a big difference. Generosity, you know, when you're around someone who's just generous, but it's not generosity with strings attached. It's just part of the way they are generosity. You know, these are, these, these qualities are, they're, they transcend dogma, I think. And that's where no religion owns patience. No, exactly. And that's where to me sometime is interesting, because you do see human beings that are sweet, good, generous, caring human beings. And then they start talking about ideology,

whether political or religious or whatever the fuck. And you go like, where did that sweet person just go? Because now before your eyes, you're seeing this sweet angelic figure turning into a fucking demon because the ideology they are stuck to is so ugly and doesn't match the natural kindness that they have. But for whatever reason, they got latched into some shitty ideology that yeah, must have given them something in their life that they needed, but is really the opposite of the good heart that they have when they are not talking about this shit. Oh, yeah, that's interesting. Now you're dealing with what conditional compassion. You know, you're dealing with, well, this person deserves my compassion. That person

deserves no compassion. This person deserves it. That person does not. Yeah, that's definitely a that that's that's not a good sign. And the for any of us, I mean, it's not like any time you're like metering out compassion based on what level of, you know, what this person deserves this, like you're at a casino or something and giving out compassion chips based on what the way people's cards are coming out. That's not good. That's probably about I heard this story about I wish I could remember his name. It's a Tibetan llama got arrested by the Chinese put into prison. And, you know, they I don't know if you heard about this, but the Chinese Communist Party, not necessarily a fan of religion. So they're beating the shit out of this monk. I mean,

this is a like, a luminous being, right? And they're just using him as a punching bag, punch like, I think one of his eyes went blind for how much they're beating him. And the story is that the entire time he was there, he was treating the people beating him with pure love, bowing to them, smiling at them as they're fucking kicking his ass, man. You hear other stories of this in Christianity, I know you know, I'm talking about where the martyred Christians are getting like burn at the stake and they're praying for the people burning them at the stake. This, you know, to talk about like non differentiating compassion, the reaction to someone incinerating you. I mean, the ordinary mind reaction to that is

going to be like, why did you set me on fire? Fuck you. You know, so this is to me where the real magic appears where you're like, yeah, you're just, you're just going to be like this, no matter what's around you and what they're doing to you. Not to say you don't defend yourself necessarily, but. And I think that's where it gets interesting, right? Because there's an interesting dance in which energy you want to manifest, whether you want to go the route that's like, completely open and loving no matter what gets thrown your way. Or where you go, you know what, this is the one time where I turn on my inner con and the barbarian and fuck off, you know, and I don't necessarily think that turning in the your inner con and the barbarian

in certain conditions is bad. I think the judgment call, you know, most of the time, that's a bad idea. You know, I would agree that overwhelmingly, the majority of cases, the better answer is in the more loving accept in general. Yeah. And then once in a while, you go like, not today, motherfucker and not with you, because there's you cross a few lines too many where no dear Richard Ramirez, the night stalker, I'm not going to be compassionate with you right now. I'm going to put a bullet in your head. And that's just how it goes. Yeah, but I think you could compassionately put a bullet. I get it. You know, you know, when you grow up, I'm sure you have your reasons. I still,

you're a rabbit dog. I still need to put you down with without, you know, like I need to torture you on the public square. You know, you're a fucking rabbit dog. You just need to. But these, these are extreme examples that always the mind presents. Like in gin, like if you just do the thought experiment, imagine this, you just parachute it into your life. Whatever the fuck you were before, who knows, you just parachute it in to the frame of the present moment. You are fine. And now what you're going to do for the rest of your life is help. You're going to be come, you're just going to help. You know, that's it. You're just going to help. You don't even need a manual for this shit. You're just going to try to help the way you're going to help who the fuck

knows. It's exciting. I don't know how you're going to help. It could be some massive endeavor where you bring food to all the starving people of the world, or it might just look like you being less cruel to yourself. And it might just look like you in the presence of exactly the people around you, having compassion for them or some version of that, right? That's it. That's it. Whatever comes comes. If it's Richard Ramirez, when you end up euthanizing Richard Ramirez, great, you just saved a lot of people from brutally murdered congratulations. But more than likely, what's going to happen is the person around you is going to do the thing that annoys you and you stretch for a second instead of trying to fix it. You see what happens if you

don't do anything? See what happens if you don't say, why are you always with me? What happens if you don't? Right. What happens? What happens is shit gets really interesting, real fucking quick, you know, and then things actually change. But yeah, whatever dogma you want to attach to that, if it helps you attach it. I remember on what you're describing, a bouncer story where somebody they were describing a situation where there was this really obnoxious person wanting to pick a fight. And you know, the standard thing would be if you are a bad bouncer, you just beat the shit out of them. If you are a professional, you just find a way to get them out. But in this situation, the scenario was the bouncer approaching the guy and say, look, I've had a really fucking

hard life. This thing happened to me, this thing happened to me, I had loved ones die in my arms, I had this and I understand this has nothing to do with you. Okay, so I'm not telling you that you need to fix it. This is just my shit. But if you can find it within yourself to make the life of a guy who has gone through all this shit, one millimeter easier tonight, I would be eternally grateful to you. Now, at that point, you're the other guy, you need to be such an asshole to go out. I mean, you just ruled out all the people who are average obnoxious, who are gonna feel like, oh, I'm actually gonna come out being the nice guy, and this poor buster, the ash were fine. At that point, the only people who are gonna give you a hard time are like the professional

assholes who are going out of which at that point, you also feel better if you have to smash them, right? It's like, okay, well, I gave you every way out possible. But I like that. I like that idea of just some time being being really vulnerable. Because the thing that we all do when we feel under attack, whether by words, by anything is put up our guard. And I think there's a strength in showing vulnerability in there's a strength, even if like you're a kid and the kid at school is being a dick and having a conversation and saying, Hey, man, what's the you're actually hurting me? I'm going to her, you know, that's where you you push somebody into becoming either better or worse. If they are worse, now you have a reason to check them. And if they are better,

well, you solve the problem. But you're right, you know, you're not just responding defensively automatically, where at that point, they may have not meant it that bad, but they are compelled to respond defensively and the spiral out of control, right? You give them every chance because you show a certain degree of vulnerability. And if they insist on being a dick after chance one, two and three, well, then at least the cards are on the table is very clear who they are and what they are doing. Exactly. Yeah, that's, it's, you know, yeah, you don't always have to use the sword. Like there's so many other things you could do. I mean, we both know this as parents, like the sometimes you have to be like, no, you're not going to do that. That we're definitely not going to

like whatever usually involves like, well, no, we're not doing somersaults down the stairs. Right. We're not going to do that. And you have to stop it right there. You have to stop. Or you know, the most example any parent knows is like, if your kid starts trying to run across the street and a car is coming, you're not going to be like, excuse me, let's have a conversation about it. A car is coming now and it's much bigger than you. And it seems to be going about 30 miles per hour. If it hits you, I'm pretty sure like, if it doesn't kill you, it's going to put you in the hospital for a while, probably a concussion at the very least. You're like, stop. Stop. That's compassion, by the way. That is true spontaneous, the spontaneous manifestation of compassion.

And if you're adrenaline was going, you needed to get fucking angry. If you've ever heard a mom do one of those, it's like, everyone freezes. The sky stops moving. That's okay. But sometimes they just don't know. You know what I mean? Sometimes I have to sit down and be like, okay, here's why we're asking you to do this. Here's why. Because when you put the the bear, the teddy bear in front of my face and punch, it's still a punch. You know, it's not softening the blow at all. I know you think maybe the teddy bear in your exploration of how to wrestle has softened your rather like powerful child face when it's the bridge of my nose. You know what I mean? Sometimes you need to explain.

And then they're like, oh, oh, right. The bear, of course, it's very thin. You know what I mean? There's ways and that applied to me. I mean, I think you extrapolate from the way you work with your kids to like literally every everybody. 100%. No, I think it's key. And I think it's key in that way. And that to me is being able to relate to people on multiple levels, speaking multiple languages. Should we not put enough defenses and at the same time being real about when shit is hurting you? And I think there's something to be said for that. Daniela, we did it again. What a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much. I'm excited to hear that you're getting your podcast going again. Can you let people know about

what's going on with that? Because you put yourself behind a paywall, you went up into the mountains for a while and you're back now, correct? Yes, indeed. Yeah, I mean, it was pretty plain and simple, too good of a deal to say no. Which, of course, it's something that behind a paywall, because inevitably you're going to lose a big chunk of your audience who understandably may not have the money or the desire to follow behind a paywall. At the same time, it made a difference in my family's life. So I'm okay with the way you worked out. I'm also happy that I'm no longer behind a paywall. So yeah, if you guys can listen in now, can tune in, subscribe, tell your grandma, your goldfish, whoever has a heart beat

and an account where they can download the podcast to check out History on Fire. I'll be deeply, deeply grateful because that's kind of the make or break of the podcast is of course how many people are listening and how much I can make it a priority. It's a great fucking podcast, man. It's really good. Like if you have any interest in like hearing like renditions of incredible shit that went down from the mind of this brilliant maniac here, it's like so good. It's so good. It's so entertaining. It's so sticky. You want to keep listening? You know, yeah, definitely you should listen. Don't just subscribe, listen. Beautiful. I love it. So where is it? It's everywhere pretty much. Now you can find it on old,

as they say, anywhere you choose to listen to podcasts. You know, yeah, you can find it pretty much anywhere. And there's, I think I'm now at almost about a hundred episodes. So I have so many topics I've touched on doing deep dives and so on that it's almost inevitable that you would find something that you care about, some topic that clicks with you. So we're checking out. You definitely do me a favor and hopefully you get to enjoy it. The links will be at dunkartrussell.com. Mr. Bilelli, thank you so much. I can't wait to see in person one day. That was very nice. That was Danielli Bilelli, everybody. All the links you need to find them will be at dunkartrussell.com. Thank you to my sweet sponsors and thank you

for listening. Come see me. I'm going to be in Dallas. I hope to see you there and we'll be back real soon with another DTFH. Hare Krishna. With kids around, me time runs out fast. Don't waste valuable child-free minutes on a drink run. Instead, get Drizly, the number one app for alcohol delivery. Drizly has the largest selection of beer, wine, and spirits delivered in under 60 minutes. Get date night rolling before your parents bring him back. How about a living room sip and paint? They'll never know you stole their crayons. Download the Drizly app or go to drizly.com. That's D-R-I-C-L-Y.com today. A good time starts with a great wardrobe. Next stop, J.C. Penney. Family get-togethers to fancy

occasions, wedding season two. We do it all in style. Dresses, suiting, and plenty of color to play with. Get fixed up with brands like Liz Claiborne, Worthington, Stafford, and J. Ferrar. Oh, and thereabouts for kids. Super cute and extra affordable. Check out the latest in store and we're never short on options at JCP.com. All dressed up everywhere to go. J.C. Penney.