Duncan Trussell Family Hour - 618: Emil Amos

Episode Date: June 3, 2024

Emil Amos, musician, one of Duncan's dearest friends, and fan-favorite, re-joins the DTFH! Listen to Emil's podcast, Drifter's Sympathy, available everywhere you can download a podcast! You might know Emil as the drummer for OM, GRAILS, LILACS & CHAMPAGNE, and singer and guitarist of HOLY SONS. His music is available everywhere you like to listen! Original music by Aaron Michael Goldberg and Duncan Trussell. This episode is brought to you by: BLUECHEW - Use offer code: DUNCAN at checkout and get your first shipment FREE with just $5 shipping. Rocket Money - Visit RocketMoney.com/Duncan to cancel your unwanted subscriptions and start saving!

I've got some dates coming up. You can find me at the Orange Peel in Asheville, North Carolina, June 11th and 12th. One of those shows is sold out and the other one is almost sold out, so get your tickets in advance. Then after that, I'm going to be at Good Nights Comedy Club in Raleigh, June 13th through the 15th. This is not sold out, and I'm starting to get my feelings hurt probably. Then you can find me at Helium in Buffalo August 8th, 9th, and 10th. After that, Sidespitter's

Comedy Club in Tampa, Florida and the Wilbur November 1st. I'm also going to be at Comedy on State in July. You can find that in Madison. You can find all those dates at DuncanTrussell.com. Today's guest is one of my dearest friends in the world, Emil Amis. He's a favorite guest on the show and he just happened to be in Portland at the same time I was here. It was kind of a miracle, so we shot a podcast. By the way, if you want to watch this podcast and not just listen to it it you can find it on YouTube, on my YouTube channel, the link will be in this episode's description. And if you want to listen to some incredible music I would invite you to check out anything that Emil

has ever made from his band The Holy Sons to The Grails to Lilacs and Champagne to Aum. He is a true genius. And all the links you need to find E-Moll will be at dunkittrustle.com. So now everybody, welcome to the DTFH E-Moll Amos. Welcome to the DTFH E-Moll. We're in Portland right now. Is it weird coming back here for you?

You lived here for a while. 13 years. That's a long time. Yeah, it's weird. All these compartments that we've talked about before that we've lived in in different times and places they sort of stack up. Yeah, so it used to be that I would think back about like

keep talking. I'm sorry. Keep talking talking. I would think back about like us going to college. And at some point that became my memory of being young. And then my memory of being young moved forward because I got older. And so now coming to Portland in those years

are now my memories of being young. So I have new sentimental clouds that have formed around all the memories and like what my valuation of that time in this place and what it means sort of even in like culture, my attitude about it has changed a lot. I know that sounds dry, but I'm trying not to get too emotional about it because it's really intense to ascertain its effect on me and culture too. I think I had a pride about Portland because we were sort of ahead of a certain kind of American attitude. And I was proud of it.

And then that pride, whatever it was in the mid 2000s, mellowed as it became a very popular place and changed a lot. Just actually that's what happened. And I moved to New York and I didn't look back, but now my sentimentality is just exploding as I'm sitting here with you, because I've like, I've figured out what it did to my life

and you know, how it colored the world in for me. And I changed as a person. My mom has explained to me that I changed completely after I moved here. So how in what way? How did you change? Isn't it interesting, though, that fucking idea that you don't know? I'm going to tell you a quick anecdote, because I think you might say something really interesting about this idea, but like.

Dexter Romweber just died he dropped dead he went to my elementary school he had a band called Flat Duo Jets he was Carbrose legend okay where I was from I went to his funeral the super intense and this guy got up I don't remember who he was I don't know who he was. I don't know who he was. And he said, he decided to read something from Errol Flynn's biography. It seemed random as hell. And and he threw down this quote about Errol Flynn saying, I have used my body and my life as the ultimate vehicle to pursue the maximum level of hedonism. Wow! It was like the way he said it I was like wow goddamn I mean those guys you know those they're all those like actors like Oliver Reed they pursued a level of

just maintaining just enough strength you you know, to abuse themselves on such an intense, unheralded level. No one had ever gone to that frontier of self abuse. And I've totally done that. So I have this blur of the last two decades and I can give shape to it now, sitting here with you, talking about Portland, I can see the patterns. I don't remember a lot of shit. Like, I was hustling, I was getting fucked.

Yeah. So I try to take care of myself now, and I try to, you know, I mean, there's cancer in my family. I think about these things. Everybody's fucking dropping dead. Yes. You know, Albini was a super shocker. Who?

Steve Albini. That was just like totally out of nowhere. Yeah. You know, seemingly healthy people are dropping dead. And anyway, so now I kind of look at everything we've done to ourselves. And I see a pretty clear picture behind me. And yet I don't, I haven't really changed my behavior that much. I mean, I'm still just getting shatteringly fucked up all the time.

Yeah. Because I think that I perceive a certain level of health within, I mean, I'm curious what you, how you feel about yourself, but I perceive a certain ability to do it. Right. And when you get healthy, you're like, it might be fun to abuse myself.

And then when you get sick, you're like, what the fuck have I done? Yeah. So, I mean, you look really good. So I'm guessing you're in a good phase on the wheel. Well, I just got off sugar, because I have diabetes. I got diagnosed with diabetes

and I can't have sugar anymore. Yeah. I didn't know that. Type two diabetes. Yeah. So yeah, I just stopped eating sugar. And when you stop eating sugar, Right. You just get healthier naturally

because it's a poison. And we I mean I was I was eating so much sugar that I got diabetes like you were like a addict a sugar dude I was eating bowls of cereal well because you get in a awful pattern your blood sugar is out of balance and so because your blood sugar is out of balance you your body in some desperate attempt to Rebalance it once more sugar. It's the crash cycle. It's a drug You're going up and then you're crashing and then you want to go back up But you just think you're depressed or you think you're having old age issues or something like that

But your blood sugar is all fucked up. So you're moody grumpy and wake up in the morning All foggy all these symptoms I fucking had which is like I'm just getting old, I guess that's getting old. No, your fucking blood is like sweet tea. And then once I got off that my energy levels normalized and then exercising regularly became like easier. Right. Then went out my... I was just wobbly. Wow. Yeah. But look, I mean, I think that the sort of sacred profane bifurcation that people draw between the sober life and the hedonistic life is a little ridiculous. And I've met hedonists who seem quite healthy and most importantly incredibly happy. But then also I've been in phases of my own personal hedonic journey where it's not even

fun anymore so I don't even know if it counts as hedonism anymore. Like isn't some big part of hedonism that it's bringing you pleasure, right? Like, is it hedonism if it's not making you, like, if it's not giving you any, like, rush? Is it hedonism if it's just, like, making you sick all the way through? Yeah. I mean, you see friends of yours that you know can't stop the cycle.

And you know they will die pretty soon. And you see that and you're like, well I'm a little bit more self-aware than that particular death wish, but I'm doing my own version of it. You know, and you did it with sugar. You know, it's like you are abusing yourself. I'm just using the word abuse

with no great negative connotation. Dude, that's this, there's this Elliot Smith line, I can't remember what song. I think it's Fawn Farewell to a Friend, whatever the name of that song is, but it's a little less than a happy high, a little less than a suicide. And such a good description of it,

because it's like, well, I'm not quite committing suicide Wow in and and I think he was it seemed like he was really He really railed against people who he saw as like kind of Fence riders, you know what I mean? Like people who are like it's like if you're gonna go for it fucking go for it stop tricking yourself into for it, fucking go for it. Stop tricking yourself into thinking that you're, sorry about that. Stop tricking yourself into thinking that you're not killing yourself.

Like, so that at least when you're doing it, there's some authenticity and honesty to it. Yeah. I don't know, I've never, I've never been like a major Elliott Smith fan. So I don't know if I've never been like a major Elliott Smith fan. So I don't know if I've decided if he has a wisdom to impart to me about the value of life. I've never decided that.

And that's the end of the fucking podcast and a friendship. No, no, what I'm saying is that my life recently changed No, no, what I'm saying is that my life recently changed because I made the incredible decision to go see Neil Young. And that fucking was incredible. What was it like? It blew my mind. And I'm changing the subject, I guess, by design because I know what Neil Young says

to me and I know what he's given me. But I just have never established that relationship with O.E. Smith. I just don't, I don't. What I'm saying is, you know, because you said it on the last podcast, but we did. But I'm saying because he killed himself, he's imparting some sort of judgment call in that lyric to me. He's talking to me about the nature of the value of our lives. Yeah. And I just haven't decided if I trust him. That's all. Oh, I don't know. You know, I can remember it like that fucking mural, man.

That fucking mural in LA of Elliott Smith and how just always candles. And then inevitable. Like inevitable black mass, someone would come and paint like a dick on it or something is the funniest fucking thing in the world. Like here you have this sacred altar to Elliott Smith, and then what's funnier than painting a dick and balls on it. But I did see one thing on it, I think sums up not just Elliott Smith, like there's so many like I think he's in a family of artists and musicians of like like burrows that have

found a way to bring out the beauty right within self destruction and that is true and and and that you definitely shouldn't trust anyone who's doing that because it's as far as I'm concerned fundamentally inaccurate based on my own real experiences with self in other words it's like so you you know you um you wake up but you've only slept an hour you've been doing I don't know rails of ketamine all fucking now you've only slept an hour, you've been doing, I don't know, rails of ketamine all fucking night, you've been drinking, you've been smoking, you have massive sleep deprivation, and then you do more ketamine, and then you go throw up. Nothing in that is romantic or beautiful. You get to the point, you just medicated like you're your vomit tastes like ketamine and pills and but then so you do that and you're like

At least for me. I'm like, oh, okay. This is the end of this phase. I got a stop. This is time to stop or You go and write some beautiful romantic story that makes you this sort of like hero, a romantic hero. And it's interesting, like you get like, you know, Elliot Smith and like, Hunter S. Thompson, another person who was a master at writing about the jewel, like you've never lived till you've been on a motorcycle going 150 miles per hour down the road and the ass is kicking in. But then look at the end of life.

Yeah. Fuck it, he shot himself and I think in the suicide note it said something about football season being over. You know what I mean? Which is why if you're an artist, don't commit suicide because everything up until that point becomes a suicide note. Well, you know,

if there's a fan watching of his or something, I'm just speaking very scientifically. His music is great. I really like it. I've known his best friends. And I found them to be very warm people. And when he came up, their eyes and everything would tell me that they didn't trust him. Really?

Yeah. And what I'm saying is that I impart a lot of value to that. You know, that they felt that he was on a... Something, maybe that path was teetered too much into a selfishness. Oh my God, yeah. I mean, that's, yes, that's what I like. Just being honest. No, listen, number one, if we piss off LA Smith fans, just add it to the list of people.

It doesn't change if the music's great. Doesn't change it, but like, no, I think, but that's the thing in that music, that's part of what makes it like hardcore and like Slayer or something, because it's like, You're right, yeah. You know what I mean? It's this self-involved preciousness, like Jesus Christ.

Right. And what's also awesome about it, it's the kind of music where when you're younger you listen to it and you have one feeling about when you get older you listen to it you realize this guy seems like a fucking dick like if you listen to like listen to Rose that song Rose Parade yeah and he's like literally like he's the entire song is about some friends invite depressed ass heroin addicted Elliott Smith to go to the fucking Rose Parade.

You know, they're probably just like, dude, you see him the other day, he seems like he smelled bad, like we should just get him out in the sun. And then he fucking, so he shuffles to the Rose Parade with you and your friend. And then the whole fucking song is bitching about the normies at the Rose Parade and how he is somehow, you know, the seer of truth. The whole thing, the parade is a sham or he's trying to compare the Rose Parade maybe to all of default reality as though that's a hot take. You know what I mean? It's like, dude, no shit. Like we all know, A, it's a fucking parade. They're stupid. And B, yes, you know, money's not real and people are idiots. But like, I just like what

I like. I like the precious self involvement. But what I don't like is that it like the invi it's like inviting you into what I think is a pretty bullshit way of life that is self-centered and ultimately embarrassing. But you're being such a good fan by balancing those two things and letting that coexist. I think that's probably largely the correct way to enjoy a piece of art. You can like the long goodbye and maybe not like the ending, but you still love the movie,

but you see it for what it is. But I do think that it might be important throughout your life to eventually admit that a storyteller is also a grifter. Do you know what I mean? So a songwriter needs content is also a grifter. Do you know what I mean? Yes! So, they, a songwriter needs content. Yeah.

And there's so many famous stories about songwriters who have to steal from themselves or their relationships for content, you know, and it's a little weird. I mean, as somebody who's spent all this time doing it, I can sort of sense when someone is reflecting something to increase the value of their brand versus Reflecting themselves purely right there, but I think he's doing both He's doing both and you and we all know that you know that he's he's reflecting his experience Which was hardcore as he went towards suicide

He's being honest. He's obviously being fucking now, but you see documentaries and he's like bitching about his publicist I think I saw one where he's bitching about his publicist and that was like for me a real like crack in the windshield it's like you know because you you you you either you read Bukowski right right? And here he is, just a walking fucking disaster. But then that's his fictional self. And then probably in real life, he's on the phone with his publisher, he's arguing over what his book cover should be, he's trying to get more money for speaking engagements, he's trying to maybe get into money for speaking engagements. He's like trying to like maybe get in the movies. You don't know. Hold on one second. Neurotic. I just got to be neurotic. I love the idea that maybe Keith Richards never did heroin. God damn

it. I love that idea that maybe Burroughs actually like, you know, didn't, I mean, it was a brand. That's such a cool idea that maybe it was bought and sold to you. And I think as an adult, you need to be suspicious about everything. Oh, my. Dude, you know, this relates. So every once in a while when I watch TV, I've been thinking about it in a few different ways, especially the news. It sounds so stupid.

But one, I'm thinking about like, I'm watching the past. Like it's dead. It's dead now. That's not happening. It's like like anything pre-recorded. I know that sounds obvious, but it's digital. It's pre-recorded. And then like. especially the fucking news, this sounds so dumb.

It just, I saw like a picture of inside like, I don't know, Fox News or something, and it's just green screens behind them. And they're in a warehouse. And there's teleprompters and everything they're saying somebody else wrote. And then when you're watching it, there's some sense of like, they're with you, they're here right now, but it's like, no, I know this sounds obvious, but it's dead. You're watching death. It's like literally a dead thing from the past

that doesn't even look like the way that you're seeing it. I sound like somebody who just found out about fucking cameras. But something about that is really creepy and fucking hot. I mean, dude, it's that Daniel Johnston line. Sometimes when I'm watching television and I think that the people in the movies are probably dead. It's spooky and it's like, you know what I mean? So like you like you have this idea. So but it appears to you as alive when it's fundamentally dead, which means it's some form of light, mild necrophilia in the sense that you're watching dead life that's been recorded and is now being converted from ones and zeros into images.

And something about that is really creepy in the sense that it gives you this weird sense of comfort, like you're hanging out with people. When it's all, what you're watching is something long gone. And why I'm saying that is like, any art, any music, anything that you're listening to, it's done now, it's dead. You're listening to a tertiary secondary rep, like thing that's already been watered down by the technology that recorded it anyway. So you're not getting, it's all synthetic.

Well, to take it further, I mean, you become a customer of yourself. You become a customer of culture. You become separated. I mean, this is probably a Buddhist idea from experience, and then you become a buyer of the idea of it. And every time you watch, I was just recording a podcast the other day because I have a new season I'm about to announce. Cool.

I was telling a story about watching Deliverance super high and I got creeped out viscerally by the idea that I was getting off on watching them go through such a discomfort. Like levels of like being chased and shot, falling off the waterfalls, all that stuff. Yeah, and I was creeped out that I was enjoying it in a safe, happy, warm home.

And I was like supposed to take this vicarious adventure that had been sold to me as a story. I mean, I was so high, I became detached from whatever that customer role is, you know? And I just thought that was so high, I became detached from whatever that customer role is, you know? And I just thought that was so odd that we objectify ourselves and sell ourselves back to each other. Yeah. And that, I think you're, you're talking about that.

Yeah. Talking about those separations and getting high is one of the oldest, quickest ways to like step out of this dimension and look back at it and see it as almost an objectification. It's confusing and it can be incredibly uncomfortable and that's why most people don't do that during the day. Dude, yeah, well, absolutely not. Yeah, like it's a, like, yeah.

Depending on the psychedelic, of course, you know, or what drug, you know, if I if I'm like stoned, I doesn't have that effect, I can actually get into it. But like, if I definitely if I want some kind of psychedelic, watching watching it, then the practice of it becomes like so weirdly alien like the whole situation becomes completely bizarre totally did Yeah, and then you're sort of like Do you ever this is so confusing but it's like, okay, so there you are you're the observer you're watching TV Focusing your attention on like dead like death on your past and so and you're

fix it you're hypnotized by it too and but then you're not watching TV you're just hanging out and do you ever do this okay if you ever had this happen it sounds so nuts if you ever woken up in the night and for some reason you think you're looking in the mirror though you know what I mean like you've ever thought you're about to look in a mirror and there's your reflection isn't there because you're not looking in the mirror because you're kind of dreary and you just woke up but for a second you saw yourself you know have you ever had that happen or like it's like it's pitch black okay only a couple times you you put your hand in front of your face and you actually see your hands.

Even if you have a face mask on, you put your hand in front of your face and you kind of see some foggy version of your hands. Your brain is expecting a hand to be there, so it summons up a sort of phantom hand. So like, okay, now this sounds really fucking weird, but I was thinking like, oh shit, this experience of reality itself, there's something in it that feels like looking in a mirror. Like you know what I mean? We're looking into a mirror and not seeing like the reflection of our face that we see in the mirror, but we're seeing ourselves in this bizarre three-dimensional

mirror. I don't know if that makes any sense at all. I think it's funny because drugs have totally informed that stuff. But the reason why, the history of drug culture, the radical rebellious aspect of it that was such a revolution, was the knocking off of the human beings that were on that structural path into a place of kind of almost like perilous freedom, like a whole new level of freedom, right? So I think that I've never really read much Foucault, but I think he was probably trying to say

a lot of what you're saying. Is that you're looking into an invention, you're looking into a structural thing that you have faith in, and drugs smack you so hard sideways that you just realize that the structure is not really there necessarily. And so then you're left kind of falling

and you have to turn that into a great thing, which it certainly is if you've got the fucking positive energy to like charge into it, you know, but I don't always have that stability, you know, I've been getting way too high every night lately. Stoned? Yeah. And it's like, I'm slowly becoming a little unstable in general. Oh, yeah. And I need to fucking chill.

Yeah. But I've got caught in this like dare minded mindset and I'm really enjoying like taking the dare. But it hasn't been like super good for me overall, but night after night, I'm fucking loving it. But I've had, the reason why is because I've had so many revelations lately through it. Right. Yeah.

And I don't usually say that. And I have not been feeling that positive about that instability for a decade or so. This is like a new phase I got into and I'm only telling you it because you just said the same stuff I've been thinking about. Oh cool. But I think that, you know we saw Truman Show in India? Did we really? I don't remember that at all. I thought we watched Titanic. No, we went to see a bunch of movies one was cruising which changed my shit

But we were in Dharamsala and we would go up into these shacks. Yes It was ten rupees. Yes as far as I remember and you would huddle down through the door and get in there be these benches Yeah, crazy primitive but like awesome really exciting to get to watch a movie I love that But the movies I mean we've probably talked about this some people know about this like the movies were filmed in theaters as they had come out overseas by someone with a camcorder sitting illegally you know in the back where you see people getting up it sounds like shit and we were so stoked to go see a new movie and it just happened to be the Truman show which yeah which I knew nothing about you know and just I remember walking back and like I think monkeys like in the road kind of like sort of scampering after us

or something sure I have some memory of us like climbing like a hill all talking about the movie afterwards yeah Yeah, and I remember Jim Carrey's face, you know and someone's standing in front of it and you know, it was so bad quality the whole thing and so As I've kind of thought about that Reality, which is which is a story about you know crafting a structure which is a story about, you know, crafting a structure for people to live within and convincing them that it's great and they're happy, you know? And so I think at that age, I mean, we were definitely

toying with those ideas, but that was like a really great time to sort of get drifted in. Because I'd probably read about the Zapruder film, but it took me a while to realize that the CIA were actually writing everything through time life. They literally controlled, they bought the tape. It took me a long time to realize that you actually can control narratives.

But the people have to want to be in that box that you've created. At least in theory, they have to be enjoying it. And I think the history of these people that you're talking about, the rebels, or the people that were just dissatisfied enough, just bored enough by living in that little screen or whatever, that they started to not have faith in it, you know? And they started asking questions

or making art that reflected a pure search, right? And then you have to debate, like, are there elements of Elliot Smith where he's on a pure search or is he selling a product? And is that product influencing me in a way I want? And it could be Neil Young supporting Reagan. Everybody has these phases of erroneous thinking and it gets trapped like amber in art. You don't know if you trust everything about the maker. You know, you don't know, but people are so in touch with fan culture,

people start to get addicted to the screen, to the Truman Show. That's it. They get addicted to it because that is ideally the best case scenario for the grifter. That created it. Yeah, absolutely. We gotta cut to a commercial. I wanna thank Bluechew not just for supporting

this episode of the DTFH, but for inflating my confidence like a raft that somebody had punctured with a 50 year old one ball bullet. That's me, 50 years old, one ball and three kids. So having something like a Bluechew tablet around is a dream come true. Truly a gift from the divine. I just chew up one of these sweet babies and then I am pounding. I am in the rhythm of life, humping and humping like I was back in college. Thank God, oh thank you, Blue

Chew. You see, Blue Chew tablets have the same active ingredient as Levitra, Viagra, or Cialis, and they're easy to get. You just talk to one of their licensed physicians and then they will send you these miraculous tablets in a discreet package, which means you don't have to go to the pharmacy. It's the height of convenience, and that's what you deserve. And your partners and lovers deserve you at maximum confidence. An erotic Superman, riding them like a stallion down some sexual beach. And we have a special deal for our listeners.

Try Bluetooth for free when you use offer code Duncan. That's right absolutely free Wait, and we have a special deal We've got a special deal for our listeners you can try blue chew for Free if you use offer code Duncan at checkout, You only have to pay five bucks for shipping. Again, it's free. Five dollars shipping. All you have to do is use offer code Duncan at checkout and they will send you this incredible blaster for free.

It's just five dollars shipping. Try it out, guys. You'll be so glad you did. Thank you, Bluechew. I just think it's a funny time to cut to a commercial. Let me just make sure we're still recording. Is that a fair assessment of the story writer, the Wizard Wizard of Oz as a grifter is that pretty fair like someone who needs you to have faith in their their PowerPoint

speech you know well I mean yeah it's like the so like if we get into this idea it's a mirror like you're looking in a mirror you can do it right now just imagine this is a mirror that you're looking into. An incredibly magical, bizarre mirror. Like an infinity mirror, except it's turning a vision of you into everything you're seeing around you. Right, right.

You know, mirrors, like they tell you, if you look the regular sort of mirror, the light reflecting mirror, you see your face. This mirror that we're in, it's a different kind of reflection that we're seeing. It's a neurological reflection. From that perspective, the demiurge is you. You are the grifter in the sense

that you're grifting yourself because... Certainly. 100%. So then any other grifters outside of that are just reflections of some self-diluting nature, right? You're seeing it, any of all of it is true, number one, yeah, absolutely. You could even ask yourself, is there a way,

if you do live in a synthetic replication of something like and this is sort of the story of of all consumer Like of malls. It's the story of If you're building a department store It's a story of whatever you want to you're trying to create like an artificial space that reminds people of nature, but it's completely fucking synthetic. It's a polar bear cage at the zoo or whatever, you know, put the rocks in or whatever, fucking things still in some kind of prison, some kind of ridiculous prison that it can't understand. So potentially there's a more natural way for humans to live. Just

based if we're going to just like assign some kind of value to evolutionary time, then at the very least we definitely didn't evolve to use remote controls and lay in bed and watch TV. We didn't evolve to drive cars. We didn't evolve to do any of the things we consider to be natural, important facets of a good life. So meaning that we're in some kind of replication of something that's warped a little bit because it's been warped towards comfort standards or something. Like we used to sleep on the fucking ground. We would get like grass and to try to make soft beds to lay upon. We wouldn't sleep with our children. Our children wouldn't be put in another room. We would, you know, all that stuff.

So whatever that time was for most of us is like hell now. Like if any of us had to go and experience that, we would be so miserable, we wouldn't be able to sleep, we'd be uncomfortable. But so yeah, the grift, so to speak, or the idea that we are in a synthetic, manipulative universe that is innately deceptive, that is geared towards grifting in the sense of any fucking commercial you watch is a grift.

It's varying degrees of grift, but it's still a grift. Anything you watch that has any kind of agenda at all that is capitalist or consumerist has sort of no matter what within it is sort of smeared with a kind of unsavor-ness to it, right? So which is the beginning, that's the beginning of one of my least favorite trips. One of my least favorite bad trips is where you start thinking, oh, oh, this is hell. Oh my God, of course.

If you're in hell and you know you're in hell and you're burning in fire You're gonna get used to that right and you're gonna adapt and you're gonna like you're gonna make it work. So What how do you adapt and get used to the flames of hell you start hallucinating? You know you start imagining it's not L and then you in the in the existential it's not L, and then in the existential agony, you construct a reality around you, and you just out of this some deep desperation and some kind of disassociation that would only be possible in an eternal life, you disassociate to the point of inventing a reality and a universe and a story about how you came to the universe and how the universe is and

But anything around you that you're seeing is just your own Hell state projected into other human forms and anyone around you is a demon and those Everyone around you is trying to keep you in the hallucinatory state of believing that any of this stuff is real because the alternative is so much more horrible which is if you start catching on the Truman show it's a set none of this is real and you'll be right back in

prime primary health ordinary how you'll be right back in just an never endingending existential stuckness, a consciousness that can't differentiate. And if it does differentiate, it does it as a form of escape or something. Anyway, this is the trip where you start thinking either your friends are cops or demons or whatever, trying to kill you.

That's what I mean when I'm saying about I've become a little unstable lately. You know, like, you're reading about Sid Barrett and Nick Drake and suddenly you realize, like, oh, it's just like, it's a couple more steps, and I will be giving my guitar away to the milkman and doing all those things, you know, imagining all sorts of things, which creates this modern paradigm

you just described is creating a very slippery slope for some of us who have trouble navigating that much freedom. You know, you've been introduced to it. They've had a peak experience with freedom, and they are starting to believe whatever they want. Right. Do you know what I mean? Oh, sure. And that's dangerous.

This is all somewhat. There's a lot of great metaphors in what we're talking about. And maybe some people won't identify with the language of like, well, I'm not living in hell, or whatever. But just a couple of weeks ago, I was horribly high. I mean, it was not a good place I was in. Are you doing edibles?

That particular night, I just, I hit my friend's bong way too hard a few times, maybe with a type of weed I didn't usually smoke. And in order to come down, because I needed to like, I needed to look at something else and not myself in the mirror or whatever. Yeah. I was feeling very uncomfortable. And so we decided I had suggested before I got there that we watched the entire film,

Logan's Run. This is like, probably one of my favorite movies. It had been a while since I'd seen it so I wasn't sure how it was going to play to my friends. It's an awkward moment where you're not sure if you vouched for something they really want to see. But the only reason I wanted to watch it was because of the key scene. And the key scene is what you've been describing. So basically they are living inside a biosphere. Yes.

The exact same thing you're talking about. Yeah. A controlled environment. Yes. There are rules and there are runners that are trying to get out of the structure. Yeah. Right? And you meet Michael York is a cop essentially, and he's been trained by the structure to

eliminate the people who try to go get free. And he has been trained to believe that that's a righteous, not even a righteous duty, but an expected consequence of normal life. Kind of like when you look in a cop's eyes and they just don't realize how insane they are being. So he's like... I know what you mean. I mean, you know, when they're talking down to you.

Sure, I know what you mean. And so I have enough of those, you know, the stern father look. Yes. You know? And like my reaction is like, why are you trying to pretend like you care about me? You know, I'm so confused by it. Right. Anyway, so they're inside the biosphere.

He eventually kind of gets into the, he's introduced to the idea that maybe there is a free world or there is something outside. He doesn't really care what it is. He's key scene is when him and Jenny from Walkabout, the classic cult actress, they get outside of the piping and they somehow get up to the surface of the old world that we live in. And they immediately hit the sand and the rocks in the dirt, which is what you were talking about last time with the painting of Christ. They immediately touch the elements and feel the elements for the first time in their life

outside of the construction. And they are so confused and uncomfortable. That's the key scene. They just they they hate it. Ha, they are in hell. Right. Right. Our world, right, because they they have never been introduced to just naturalism. Yeah. You said where we came from. Yeah. And so that moment of them having to navigate freedom is uncomfortable,

which is an existentialist pillar. So they guide you to it, but you can watch the movie and never notice that moment. It's not really a thing. It's just part of the narrative. But like that fucking moment where they kind of realize what the elements are is such a beautiful metaphor. And I don't find that metaphor in most things I'm watching.

No, no, usually like the general, it seems like if there is, and it's all beautiful from this perspective. I mean, that's the other thing is like, within deception, this is like the idea I just keep going back to you lately is like that concept of Samsara and Nirvana being intertwined. So they're mixed together.

Meaning like wherever there is the demiurge or the grifter mixed into that is freedom. One depends on the other. Without pure awareness, there could be no grift because something has to be fully aware of the grift. Or it's another way to put it is confusion is a condition of enlightenment, meaning that if you are profoundly confused, how do you know that you're confused? And what part of you knows that you're confused?

And if you connect to that part of you, you realize, oh, the part of me that knows I'm confused is not confused at all. It's completely clear, luminous, completely aware of my own confusion. But because I'm fixating on the confused state or the Truman Show state or the set dressing I have become and I've gone into a despair state because you're you're you're because if you've really like managed to forget the awareness field right yeah then you're in hell because you true there's no way out which is why they always talk about hell being like

The situation of being completely disconnected from God or however you want to put it in this case the awareness field, right? So like the the grifter to like no awareness. No grifter. No good. No bad No, you know, these are the fundamental This is the one and ones and zeros of reality itself. But we all get caught up in the grift or the deception or the everything's hell. And then you think everything's hell, you're going to panic or you go nihilistic quite often. You just become a fucking nihilist, which happened to Jim Carrey, maybe because of the Truman Show. I don't know if you've seen interviews with him, but he went hardcore nihilist. None of this means anything.

None of it's real. Everything is, I can't quote him. And he committed to that nihilistic perspective. And I think it hurt him a little bit because it's a complete imbalance. Like it's true. All the descriptions, everything he's saying are true, but only true about one, the one, the

result of awareness only true of somewhere in there you miss the awareness part which is neutral not not like it's neutral in the most beautiful way. That's true freedom if you ask me. Is that part of this of the situation? That makes sense. So yes, the first thing me, is that part of the situation. That makes sense. So yes, the first thing I think is to acknowledge that you're right if you've stumbled upon the backstage or whatever. You know what I mean? Totally, but you can't become fully inflated and have that be like your stopping paradigm.

You can't stop there. You're not done. And so in the end of Logan's run, at the very end, it's possibly the worst part of the movie because they find the new happy land or whatever. And the new happy land, everybody's playing and singing or something. I mean, that's not really, but so maybe you rewind the tape and maybe freedom is a window in between the two structures, right? And

and we all are trying to kind of like balance in there, but some people get trapped in believing they've discovered the true structure, right? And I there's something in what we're saying that I'm pretty sure is not offensive to anyone, but have you seen the footage where Elliot Smith is playing the song, like she's singing Cathy's Clown or something, and he just stops, and he's like, he's like he's so upset and I'm

describing it because I mean I've been in that somebody who just I just came from lunch somebody was telling me that I walked out of a show once or so that I didn't remember but he like he stops and he just he's smearing he's so he's so fucking upset yeah and he's like, I'm just, I'm not gonna play this song. I don't need to play this song. I've played this song hundreds of times. And he just gets irate, you know? Like he works himself up into,

I mean, I know that state of mind and it sucks. Oh my God, yeah. But as you're watching it, of course, you're objectifying this person who's entertaining you. Yeah, and you're like You could have just finished In your mind you're like you could have just finished and went the fuck home. Yeah, and you know Hated the people that you were working with and whatever just the same. Yeah, but he but I mean he just stops I mean then that's part of the hardcore element. He's like, I don't wanna lie in this moment,

and I'm not willing to do this. Thank you Rocket Money for supporting this episode of the DTFH. Do you have unwanted subscriptions? I know I do. So many impossible numbers of unwanted subscriptions that point to a real problem I have with impulse control. Because if I see a cool app, I'm just

going to subscribe to it. I'm going to do that dumb thing where you do the free trial, but they know when you do the free trial that you're going to forget to unsubscribe. And that's exactly what I do. Not only do I forget to unsubscribe, I forget what I subscribe to. And then out of the blue, huge, precious chunks of dough get sucked out of my bank account like a vampire bat it landed on my children's necks and was sucking away their lifeblood these subscriptions they're ruining my children's future I want to send my kids to golden palatial Ivy League schools and I'm not

gonna do that if I have 2,000 subscriptions that I forgot about because I signed up for them very late at night in various altered states of consciousness. Rocket Money does it all for you. It scans your subscriptions. It will unsubscribe for you and And also, if you just want a great finance app, it's wonderful. It shows you how much you spend every month, helps you set up a budget. I use it and I love it and I think you will love it too. It's time for you to pry the vampire bats off of your neck or your family's neck or your dog's neck or anyone who could

benefit from you having a little bit of extra money to buy them gifts or paintings or presents or sweaters. Pry off the bat. Go to rocketmoney.com right now and liberate yourself from those parasitic subscriptions that are slowly destroying your life and potentially driving you mad. Thank you Rocket Money. Yeah. And but there's something interesting about that character that like I think he fairly he sort of rejected he made his piece of art, he made his brand, and then he rejected it on some levels.

I think he became very depressed by that logical conclusion of his statement. And I think you can see it in his eyes when they say, a lot of people say you sound, you're kind of harkening back to Simon and Garfunkel, and he's like, I'm nothing like them. I have nothing to do with that. I'm a punk.

They are not. The people think I sound like that. I don't sound like that at all. And you can see the inflation of somebody who's like, like you said with the Rose Parade, you can see there's like a moment where he's like, I'm not like them, I'm possibly of a better breed, blah, blah, blah.

And you know, I'm older now, so it's like, it's taken me a long time to realize, Paul Simon is a fucking genius dude. Right. You got mad, you are compared to like, what? The greatest. Will you chill the fuck out?

Yeah, like just chill out. I mean, whatever, you know, I respect the guy, but I just think I just think there was you can see in that glint. You can see a halting that that rage halts your brain from moving forward and what happens to a person that gets halted in that? They might kill themselves, right? That's what happened. Wow, do you know that's so that's so funny? Yeah, that again you get a glimpse, you know, you just get a glimpse of like ring of power You know what? I mean you get a glimpse of like any anytime any of the characters hold the ring and for a second,

they're like, oh, I could breathe. Yeah, he's amazing. It's messianic. It's like, what the fuck do you what are you looking for here, man? Like, something in him wants to be better. Yeah, then everybody something in him. I mean, sometimes when I let I love like when I let that part of myself, right, never enough part of myself. So when I am brave enough to ask it, like, what do you want? And then the response is like, whoa,

like you want Game of Thrones, you wanna be on a fucking, you know what I mean? Like you will never be fulfilled because it's not enough to get to go around, make people laugh and have a podcast. You want total control. You want total fucking control of the atomic structure of the universe. You want to recreate the universe.

You want to take the universe like it's potter's clay and just redo the fucking thing or you want to add, you want to fix the universe that you're a part of and in that is a general idea that the universe isn't quite good enough for you because you're trying to fix it as it is. You're like, this isn't right. We've got to work on this fucking thing. We've got to establish some kind of new method of democracy, voting, humanism, establish a new philosophy, come up with some kind of new synthesis of Buddhism, whatever the fuck it is. And it's like, It is intolerable for that part of me to just be like, no, this is okay. This is fine right now.

Actually including you, including your insane, megalomaniacal, messianic, weird, completely insecure and hyper selfish, the opposite of altruistic itch that is disguising itself as something that's benevolent. You know, it's like, you know what I mean? Like it's, it hates that. Yeah. That part, the part, the part of me that wants to watch the news and the part of me that wants to be entertained and the part of me that wants to find some new hedonic avenue in modern society, it doesn't

want to be fulfilled because the fulfillment would eradicate the necessity of these distractions. And the distractions are so fucking fun and they hurt. Very addictive, yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'm going to try not to apologize for the Elliott Smith take and stuff because because I I know I know the feeling that he's going through because I go there all the time with my own bitterness and and in no way am I like Past that that point, you know, I I feel the glint in his eye that that angry. Yeah, sure

I think that's one of my favorite feelings. You know, I do that once a day, I'm sure. And I think that there's probably a reason why bitterness feels bad. Yeah. So like, what's the logical conclusion there is like, maybe go the other way. You know what I mean? Like, don't celebrate it. Dude, you know what else feels bad when you look in the mirror and you're like you look like shit dude. Yeah. So when you're bitter you're looking into the mirror of reality and doing the same fucking thing but you don't realize it's your reflection. It probably feels bad because you're raking your own claws against your back and pretending you're not.

You're cutting yourself because the whole thing, like all of it, the griff, the hypnotic, like swirling, never-ending vortex of bullshit that a lot of people think of is like, this is great. You know what I mean? That's you too, but it's not all of you. Yeah, I mean it's Tom Sara this is why the the idea is to get the to actually Stop the loop

the idea is to stop the loop to Get out and they really mean that too and a lot of people hate that they hate that because like when they're here Then the idea is not to keep doing it in different ways the idea is not to go to happy land that yeah that logan ended up at and that's the other thing is like if you did have the control total control and you did re-assimilate the universe into what you would consider to be a more pleasing equitable reality for all living beings. How long before you're like, Oh, yeah, this has gone to shit. Now I'm going to have to re-assimilate this whole fucking not even a week. I mean, the happy land. Oh, yeah. Couple of days and the first time you go to the porta

bodies like, Oh, Jesus Christ, they have a sanitation problem in happy land. I mean, yeah, I think when I was in the college dorm, when we were, whatever, 20 years old, if I had the time to record a song, and I had a new one, whatever, every day, and I didn't have to eat, like essentially, because I think the idea, the excitement of the idea was so intoxicating that, and that's the window of freedom in between the old structure and the new one you're about to make. That's gonna feel like you have to move beyond that once it's done. That little window was so

nourishing. I don't know what a better word is, but I could subside. I could be in that. I didn't have to eat. And then probably because I was starving and then like chords were tripping me and I was you know like having trouble with an accidentally recording or I would work myself into kind of like a semi-rage and then those recordings are eccentric because I'm starving and freaking out you know but like in an in a Nietzschean, I was like so excited by the idea, you know? And so I can kind of see a parallel with everybody trying to become God, you know, or wanting to be the ultimate grifter

or grift their reality. Because I'm so excited in that phase where you see the void and then you put structure into it, which is God creating the world yeah but you only have your window of that feeling which I'm sure people get addicted to and then become sad you know because they're not in the window an hour later yeah but I would try to stay in that that place and I didn't need anything else I That's why my door was locked and you wanted to go drink a beer in a tree.

It's very frustrating. And you couldn't get me out of that fucking dorm room. But I see all this stuff much clearer now because I'm just old enough and I can kind of see the hedonism for what it was. I can't say I regret anything. I mean I'm functioning. Everything's okay, you know, but yeah I see the window of freedom for what it is and I try to pursue it daily still, you know, but I see it in perspective and

then I'm also a bitter angry person a lot of the time. Oh yeah. I mean you just gotta that's just there. The bitter angry thing. Oh my god. It's like this is um In the you know in the interest of being honest it just seems like that's the balance you're talking about too, is like just fully admitting like how childish I will be at times. It's unreal. It's unreal. And it's repulsive. You know? Yeah. Well, it's like the pro... You know why it's repulsive? It's repulsive, I think, because I mean, this is like, I was just yapping about this in the last podcast, sorry.

So this is the Buddhist idea of kleshas, obscurations. So basically, that sort of awareness field or whatever you want to call it. I think in theistic religions, you would call it the soul or the atman or whatever name you want to give for it. But in this case, that's a sort of luminous clarity. And so the kleshas would be the lampshade over that luminous clarity, meaning that in the samsara nirvana and nirvana intertwined notion would be that the vividness of the anger and the bitterness is a result. It's very similar to when the eclipse happens in full totality,

that beautiful light that springs around the moon. It's so vivid and simultaneously so fucking dark at the same time. Well, that vivid quality of anger and bitterness, that has wrapped up in it fundamental goodness. And so the reason there's a frustrating sense to it is because it's there because of your awareness field. The awareness field is giving it its life and vividness. It's like in the same way the sun as the photons reflect off of things and give it some form. You know what I mean? But no one's seeing the photons, they're seeing the form. They are seeing that your brain is assimilating the way the light is going into your optic

nerve. But so similarly, the bitterness and the anger and all of the negative emotions, these are obscurations, these are glaciers that are actually pointing you in the direction of enlightenment. And so it's very frustrating in the sense that the two go hand in hand and are interdependent, meaning that one needs the other. You need the bitterness and the anger and it's wonderful and in an awful kind of way. It's just when you think that's all there is, that it gets bad when you become fully fixated on that level of identity. Because all this other shit's happening simultaneously. I mean, it sounds so dumb and oversimplification of what you're talking about.

But in the midst of some deep self-involved bout of bitterness and anger, you can just shift your awareness to your feet, the way your feet feel in your shoes. And it's really funny because that's what you'll start feeling or you just shift it to like this your breath or you shift it to um the thought patterns or wherever and you realize oh fuck the awareness thing it like it's just getting tangled it's i'm hyper focusing on this one fragment of my reality it's barely anything yeah and it doesn't even last. It's unsustainable. When I get really fucking pissed, I can't sustain it, man. Thank God. Jesus.

I know, but that's in its own way kind of humiliating because the thing itself- Right, right. You have to exit that temporary state of mind gracefully. Yeah, yeah. It wants to last forever and it can't. So in just the quality of its impermanence, it negates itself in the sense it's like, I mean, yeah, okay, you're fucking bitter and angry right now. It's like, you know, Ram Dass would say like, there's two ways to talk about it. Like you could go, I'm so depressed. I don't think I'm gonna get out of this one.

Or you can go, this is an amazing depression. Like wow, look at this depression. You know, because the two are fucking intertwined. That's what's beautiful about it. Anytime you're feeling like shit, what's so funny about it is that is being suspended in pure, perfect, absolute clarity and freedom. Or you just wouldn't even know you're feeling like shit. You'd be a rock.

You'd be a non-sentient rock I just like the pure mind Engine that is behind Your your absolute most terrifying nightmares like just the the structural Ability of that movie you're making machine that creates that for you is proof You know that it can do anything anything and and take you anywhere just to of that movie you're making machine that creates that for you is proof, you know, that it can do anything. Anything. And take you anywhere just to, yeah, just to

completely torture you. I mean, it can do anything it wants to do. Well, I mean, it's like, you know, this is when I'm, this is one of my least favorite things, dude. I'm walking down the street and you see some thin, frail motherfucker with a giant German fucking shepherd on a leash and you realize that if that dog wants to break free from this person who thought they'd take a wolf on a walk that they can't control, it's going to break free. So you're walking your dogs, that German shepherd sees your dogs, it's like, oh, may I kill those things. Some dude is like, oh, no, Sally, no. And he's like, you see him struggling and fighting. And you're like,

what are you doing? It's a wolf. Like, you must learn to control that fucking thing or you get someone else to walk it. So similarly, this is the condition of the mind, which is it's a fucking wild beast, a wolf. And yeah, it will take all... It's just like any asshole. It will take all the power you give it. It will definitely let you worship it. And it loves if you're afraid of it.

And more than anything, it loves if you believe it's bullshit. Boy, it loves that. Because it wants to be the most, it's like any great grifter I've been around, oh my God. And forget this, when I grift, I should say. In other words, when I find myself pretending I know some fact or an idea, and then I realize somewhere into my whatever the fuck it is I'm talking about, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. You know what I mean? If I'm in

an egoic state, I don't want to be called out on that. You know, I want the people around me to actually, even though somewhere in me I'm realizing, oh dude, this might not be right at all. The ego part of me wants people to leave it because that's the quality of this nature of consciousness. It needs you. It's the fucking Wizard of Oz. To pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It needs you to worship it, to believe it, to live under it instead of recognize, oh, you're like a particulate of dust.

Knowing that it is a liar, you know, the mind is fully a dangerous tool, you know, would be a really powerful, beautiful, positive realization if you can kind of cancel out some of its kind of erroneous flights that it's taking. I have this new horrible problem where I have this new... horrible problem where I have this new... I loved flying my whole life. Like I'm like I've been into it historically. Yeah. Enjoyed it. Thought of most of my best ideas on fucking planes. And I have a brand new like super death oriented plane anxiety and it's so bad and I have broken out of the seat in the past three flights and had to run to the front and like have the stewardesses like try to calm me down. Wow.

It fucking sucks, dude. Wow, now let me ask are you stoned on the plane? Are you getting high and going on a plane? No, I was kind of wondering if I need to take drugs or something, but I've been worked into a psychological rut. It's very unfortunate. It has to do with the feeling I can't breathe and I'm gonna die. And because it's physical, like our bodies as they age,

there's something about the sensation of being hot. Like that, if I can't breathe. My dad had it too. In the Marines, he was an underwater demolitionist. In the Rangers, and he fell asleep one time, lack of oxygen, trapped in a submarine. Jesus. He was in a submarine, and his last memory,

he was in a compartment, they lost all oxygen, and he just saw two of his platoon buddies punching each other in the face, and he fell asleep, like about to die. And he said, it developed PTSD, you know, and I have the same exact coffin feeling that I go through, but my point is that everything you just suggested and about being trapped inside a nightmare or whatever, if I could not get inflated by this

erroneous idea that I'm going to die, which is obviously not true on the plane when I can't breathe for five minutes before they turn the air on, I mean that would be my best friend. That would be my best, you know, my mind would be my friend. But I literally, that's, I've become somewhat unstable because of abusing drugs and shit. That, that, you know. I know exactly where you're at. When I went through my big weed phase, oh my god. I can remember Panic attacks and stuff. Oh, dude. It gives anxiety. This I mean the problem with Dr. Ju is telling me that so with chronic

Chronic unmitigated hardcore Cannabis consumption I'm talking like probably like what you're doing. Like I'm super fucking curious where you're going. Okay so here's what here's the problem. Well number one this level of weed has never existed. Like it is a genetic mutate. This shit is like not the weed our parents spoke, number one. Two, so what it does over time is, and this is like, actually you hear this in a lot of different shamanic, plant medicine circles, they talk about how

the plant will dominate your ass if you don't control it. So you have to have a relationship with the plant, a respectful relationship with the plant or whatever it may be, tobacco, whatever the fucking thing is, it will become your master. Totally. And whatever that thing is begins to control you. And so with weed, I remember it starts off, like now, if I smoke weed, I get this nice warm happy kind of buzz. It feels good. I want to fucking eat. It's nice. And it's like the thing I fall asleep and it's like, ah, this is great. But that's just because I don't do it all the time. But when I went through my weed phase,

do it all the time. But when I went through my weed phase, I remember the realization of every time I do this, I'm going into the dark. And then I liked it. The shadows, the darkness, the satanic universe, the infernal qualities of the darkened weed universe. And then like, and yet the vividness and the beauty of it too. There's some incredible beauty to it but yeah I could just remember like it's the most beautiful day in LA and I can't remember what it was. Someone walked around a corner and I'm like oh Jesus fucking Christ. You know what I mean? Because I had weed anxiety, weed paranoia, chronic weed use and then so Dr. Drew said that what happens is so

People start going into that place it's no longer serving it's not doing anything but scaring the fuck out of you It's like going back into this haunted house over and over again Getting scared by the same fucking ghost over and over again And you start you start getting sleep debt because you can't sleep you like insomnia goes along with it and so then they get on benzos and that's usually the you start getting sleep debt because you can't sleep, like insomnia goes along with it, and so then they get on benzos, and that's usually the, that's where you start getting hooked on benzos. So the weed, to mitigate the anxiety,

you start taking benzos instead of just taking a weed break, which, I mean, the beauty of the weed break is that in a month, yeah, you can go back. It's your best friend again. You know, like that's the beauty of it. It's just a fucking month.

You have a month of like really vivid dreams, then you're back with your friend. But you look at the Shiavites, you look at the people who ritualistically use weed, and you understand the universe you're in. They've taken that, the very thing that terrifies a lot of people in the state that you're in, and converted it into a mechanism for contacting God they're like Yes This is Shiva the destroyer of everything. This is oblivion

This is the true reality is the plane going to crash No Statistically probably not but you're gonna die And so like, you know what I mean? And you're dying even now and everyone you know will die. But instead of being in that from that perspective, instead of then going into an anxiety freakout, somehow they've trained themselves to feel like, ah, yes, a divine message from truth, from God. And then it becomes a sacred, holy, mystical experience.

But if you don't know how to do that, you're going to shit your pants. I've never been more terrified than I we'd. It drags your ass around. It's so much more haunting than LSD for me. A million. LSD is so polite. For me, yeah, it's much, much easier metric and logical conclusions for me. But weed is just like, you know, once you get where you're at with it, it's self-crucifixion.

And it's like, dude, if you're not enjoying being crucified, you gotta take a break. I have friends who love it. They fucking love the terror. Their brain chemistry is processing it in some way. They have a contextual place to put the nightmare part. The narrative makes sense to them, maybe. I'm not sure. Or, I mean, some people you meet,

you can tell they're not really visiting the nightmare and their brain chemistry is routed around that dude I hang out with comics and they visit the fucking nightmare and the amount of weed they consume is Truly unholy like when I like the milligram dosages of edibles these people are slurping back Yeah, they would put me in a psych ward. It's like and you know, I know it's tolerance or whatever bits No, they are like Fucking like Joey Diaz like he celebrates Contact with the devil on right, you know what? I mean, he's celebrate would have to if you want to if you want to keep cruising that same superhighway for sure

You'd have to love the devil and shit. Yeah, it's just fine. I mean, I'm trying, you know, trying to love the doubt. It's just it's like the more I'm talking about it to the more I'm already sitting here worrying. Somebody probably tell I actually looked scared while you were talking. Yeah. But I'm worrying about that flight home now because I'm encouraging this this emotional state because I know it so well. That's the problem. If I didn't know what happens, the bad stuff, then I would be ignorant of it, which I would pay so much to not know this particular brain pathway. But when I was a kid, my abuse of that drug specifically, I went down the

nightmare corridor, but I believed that that's what my life was. I believed that my life was a horror movie. And I believed that on the drug, off the drug right all the time and I pursued it I was certainly you know I was I was a seduced you know towards the blackest most dark state of mine because I loved it yeah but it was not fun at all no I hated it you know but but so I'm a completely different person now you know I'm pursuing that outside of the biosphere freedom window. Yeah. But with, I'm not trying to, you know, kill myself.

Dude, you, it's so, I'm listening to, again, Ram Dass, Experiments in Truth. He's so fucking honest, man. And he's talking, like, he's talking about all the fucking drugs. He didn't just have acid when he was in India, giving it to people. He had psychiatric meds to deal with his mind

because he was saying he'd been smoking too much hash and was having real intense paranoid episodes from smoking too much hash. And he had a whole pharmacy of various psychiatric meds to mitigate the paranoia and the anxiety. That's what all those dudes did, all the same peck and pause. They just had like a whole encyclopedia of drugs in them all the time. They were just popping fucking, they were just always in this constant balancing act,

trying to like, okay, I need a Librium I think that's what he said he was taking is like Librium or something to deal with a hash mania and he has mental illness in his family too man so like you know this is these days I'm glad you're talking about it because I think a lot of people are feeling that I think so and and and like it's good that you're being so honest about it. I have had the plane anxiety you're talking about, but the only reason I've had it is from eating edibles and going on a plane and then sitting there and I've had the exact thing that you're talking about. Do you remember like actually ascertaining that you can't get out the door. That's what gets me. And not fucking knowing what the fuck you're gonna do.

I know now when you see all those videos of like a woman bashing people with a purse and stuff. What happened? What was going on? It's claustrophobia. Totally. I mean, they just can't, they don't have any narrative for it and they're just losing it.

Dude, I literally had that thought because I'm sitting on the plane. It's about to take off. And so I go into the place you're talking about. And the first thought is a seatbelt feels a little tight. And then like I just start thinking like, wait, I have to go up in the air with this plane now. Like, I can't get up for six hours.

I can't say no anymore. And then then what really starts freaking me out is I'm beginning to like experience the edge of losing control or something. There you go. I start thinking, now I kind of want to start screaming. Yeah. And if I start screaming,

someone will definitely pull their phone out and film me just howling on a plane. That's the part that really bothers me is like, oh shit, I'm gonna be the next guy who's in the news. It's like, cause I just read about it. Some, they had to divert a flight cause some naked Australian started running up and down the aisles and it's like, he's in that, the state you're talking about.

Just pure panic. Hold on one second. Yeah, when I warn the stewardesses, they always take me so seriously and it calms me down because they don't want me to turn into that guy for sure. Well, look, here's the thing. I don't know how much time we have on this thing. Here's the thing, all of this shit, the mind stuff, is very

real. So to discount it in some kind of spiritual bypass way only helps it more because now you're just trying to repress it or shove it down. So it's very real. And it's suffering. It's a form of suffering. And the general message of how to deal with it is confrontation now. You know what I mean? The methodology, at least in Buddhism, the reason meditation is so like, is the practice and is called a practice is because you're trying to put yourself in a situation of directly confronting reality as it is, like being in the state or whatever the state may be. Like instead of trying to evade the state, make it better, get out of it, the idea would be to fully feel it.

You know, and it's weirdly similar to when you're trying not to throw up. You know, if you throw up, you'll feel so much better. But you don't. And so for a while you just go through this woozy hellish thing like, and then finally you just go to the toilet, you barf the poison out, and then you feel a little better because you got it out of your system. But the puking sucks because you're out of control and you can't breathe and vomit is bursting out of your mouth and nose and it stinks and it's horrible and embarrassing.

But this, all of these fear situations, anytime I'm like, it's really almost disappointing because like, sometimes I will get very sentimental. Like before I go on the road, I will think, I don't want to leave my family. My kids are growing up. They need more time with me, but really I need more time with them. And then I'll feel my heartbreak and then I'll try to evade it. But the moment I'm like, okay, let's feel this all the way. Instead of trying to evade it. Here we go. Come on heartbreak. Let me just feel the crushing blow of the reality of impermanence and age and I'm leaving my kids and my family for a while and then it's like...

It's not much! Yeah. You know what I mean? It's the avoidance of the thing makes it seem way worse it is but then when you fly right into the... Yeah. Right into the fucking vortex Dante's Inferno style the only way out of hell is to get right to the fucking center of it.

You pull the curtain fucking back you you were like, okay, fine. I'm going to feel my grief. It's like, it's almost sad how light it is. It isn't a sledgehammer. It's the avoidance of the confrontation that is making it seem so awful. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how that translates to plane anxiety, but I'm trying to find a way.

Well, just death, right? You just got to yeah, I guess the plane's gonna fuck. Yeah. Yeah. I guess this will be it. That's what I do. What I'm getting playing at. I haven't screamed, you know, or anything like that because it's just so clear.

It'll get nothing done and that's part of the torture, you because you're like nothing can be done you know but but I'm going to I'm gonna have to meditate on this on this fucking red-eye do a whole podcast on that because it would take probably an hour to really talk about that but when we are in college we made the most satanic series of prank calls. They're really, really heavy and dark and funny. And because Emil knows how to do this stuff, we're putting them on cassette tapes. So soon you'll be able to get them on cassette tapes, which is fucking exciting to me. God, dude, I just had a flashback to you calling me and I was in a parking lot and my car window was broken.

It must have been like 2003 or something and I was in Portland, you were in LA, and you were like, he said something like, my manager is like saying like, we gotta put the prank calls out now, you know, in 2003. Yes. That's how often we've had that conversation. This is it.

We're actually, yeah, doing it, which is great, but I mean, they were taped, a lot of them, like 96. Old. 97 or something, so it is a Saturn Returns moment. It's, you know, it's just one of these special little things we get to do. I can't wait for people to hear it, man. It's crazy that we've held onto them this long without putting them online.

I think I've maybe played one on a podcast at some point, but no one's really heard them before. So that's exciting. Look, I hope that you figure out a way to deal with the dark fucking angry cannabis demon because she can really drag you around man. I've been there. The only way out is to like smoke more. You got to go deeper, Fred. Deeper into the grift, baby. All right, I love you, Emile. Thank you for doing the show.

With the Planet Fitness Black Card, you don't just get a great workout, you get a great perk out because your membership is packed with perks. For zero enrollment in $24.99 a month, you'll get perks like access to any of our 2400 clean and spacious locations. Bring your friend anytime and both workout

with tons of equipment that'll give you that big fitness energy, relax in a black card spa and more. Workout and perk out with the PF Black Card. Join today for zero enrollment and $24.99 a month. See Home Club for details. It's the Kia Summer Sticker Sales Event so give your friends something to look at like a B&B with an ocean view, an endless field of wildflowers, or a sunset that needs no filter make this a summer to share and save with a capable Kia SUV or powerful sedan see your local Kia dealer or visit

kia.com to learn more Kia movement that inspires call 800-333-34 Kia for details always drive safely sale applies to purchase especially tagged 2024 vehicles only quantities are limited are limited. Must take delivery by 7824. Was Emo Amos everybody? Please check out anything he's ever made and thank you to our dear sponsors and I hope you guys will come out and see me on the road. Come on Raleigh get those tickets. I need you. I love you. I'm watching you. I'm watching you. Shouldn't leave your windows open, guys. I'll see you next week.

Until then, Hare Krishna. you covered. Glasses start at just 95 bucks, including anti-reflective, scratch-resistant prescription lenses that block 100% of UV rays. Every frame's designed in-house, with a huge selection of styles for every face shape. And with Warby Parker's free home try-on program, you can order five pairs to try at home for free. Shipping is free both ways too. Go to WarbyParker.com slash covered to try five pairs of frames at home for free. Warby Parker dot com slash covered. When you're ready to pop the question, the last thing you want to do is second-guess the ring. At Blue Nile dot com you can design a one-of-a-kind ring with the ease and convenience of shopping online. Choose your diamond and setting. When you found the one, you'll get it delivered right to

your door. Go to Blue Nile dotcom and use promo code WELCOME to get $50 off your purchase of $500 or more. That's code WELCOME at BlueNile.com for $50 off your purchase. BlueNile.com code WELCOME. Jewelry isn't a gift you give just once. It's a way to remind your loved one of a beautiful moment every time they see it. Blue Nile can help you find the gift that says how you feel and says it beautifully with expert guidance and a wide assortment of jewelry of the highest quality at the best price. Go to bluenile.com and experience the convenience of shopping Blue Nile, the original online jeweler since 1999. That's bluenile.com to find the perfect jewelry gift for any occasion. BlueNile.com

Need new glasses or want a fresh new style? Warby Parker has you covered. Glasses start at just $95, including anti-reflective, scratch-resistant prescription lenses that block 100% of UV rays. Every frame's designed in-house, with a huge selection of styles for every face shape. And with Warby Parker's free home try-on program, you can order five pairs to try at home for free. Shipping is free both ways too. Go to warbyparker.com slash covered

to try five pairs of frames at home for free. Warbyparker.com slash covered.