Duncan Trussell Family Hour - JOE ROGAN & CHRIS RYAN

Episode Date: January 17, 2014

A glowing beam of pure drooling power will pour into your greasy ear holes when you listen to these three presidentially honored humans inject their bizzare energies into your brain.

The NTT IndyCar Series. It's human versus machine. Against all odds, every single lap. The ones who risk it all. Battling not just each other, but the menaces hidden within the most challenging tracks and motor sports. Pushing 240 miles per hour and taking 5Gs to the neck just for fun. Fractions of a second, lost or gained in every corner. Adding up to defeat or victory. Experience the Children's of Alabama Indy Grand Prix this Sunday on NBC and Peacock at 3 o'clock Eastern. Hello pals, it's me, Duncan Trussell, and you are listening to the Duncan Trussell Family Hour podcast. Hare Krishna!

Uh, I love that song. That song just makes you want to stick a heroin needle in your neck and stare at a lava lamp until a gargoyle carries you out of your apartment and into a cave. Beautiful song. Don't fear the reaper by the blue oyster cult. And I love the song. I'm not sure that the song is necessarily a Buddhist message. I think it really is more about a vampire that flies off with a girl, but I'm not positive about that. As a side note, it's also the name of a candy that an entrepreneurial elementary school kid who used to ride my school bus would sell in the morning. I don't know where he got it from, but the candy itself seemed sinister, I guess because the name cult was in it. But it was called Blue Oyster Cult. I think it was called Blue Oyster

Cult and it tasted like lemons. Had nothing to do with a band or a cult. Regardless, that song contains within it what I think is the essence of what the advice you guys gave me after my last episode where I talked about how I was terrified over getting these chest x-rays and blood tests, which is what I have to do as part of this protocol I have to follow since I had testicular cancer. And I'm not good at waiting for results from medical tests. In fact, I freak out. I have severe anxiety attacks. No matter what I do, thinking about the statistics, it doesn't help. Like I can think about how there is only a 6% chance that there will be a recurrence of the sort of cancer that I had. And that just doesn't help. Trying to assuage fear with statistics is

like throwing matchsticks at Godzilla. It doesn't work. You just, I just get overcome by this sort of tsunami of inner terror, a black wave, a chilling black wave just washes over me when I consider the phone call from the doctor or the doctor's appointment. So that was what I was going through and I didn't expect to get such an amazing response from you guys when I asked for advice. But what I ended up getting was not just really good advice and how to deal with anxiety when you're waiting for medical results or when you're dealing with a medical problem, but also so many stories about what you all are going through. And some of you guys are going through things that make getting chest x-rays and a blood test seem like a nice day barbecuing at

the beach with your pals. Something about sharing your problems or opening up about stuff you're afraid of and then hearing what other people are afraid of, it eases the terror in some way and it helps you know that you're not alone. I want to figure out a way to connect everyone who sent me an email with each other, but I don't know how to do that without massively invading your privacy because I'm sure some of you who sent me emails have no interest in being part of a group or a forum or a group of people talking to each other, but I just feel selfish being the only person who gets this kind of support and you all deserve it too. So I don't know, maybe I'll talk with Steve, figure out a way to create a Google group or get all those emails

together in some place where you guys can all talk to each other because you helped me tremendously. As it turns out, I had nothing to be afraid of, everything's fine. I went to see my doctor, he says the tests were perfect and that I'm fine. So I don't have to worry about any more tests until June when I have to get another CT scan. And then after that, I only have to get tests once a year. So it's a relief. But just because I'm getting through this current little catastrophe that happened in my life doesn't mean that there won't be another one. And for a lot of you guys, you're still going through your personal struggles right now. And so I wanted to play for you a clip from a Jack Cornfield lecture that I'm listening

to that I downloaded from Audible, which addresses the idea of facing our fear in a graceful way. This is from Jack Cornfield's audiobook, Awakening is Real, a guide to the deeper dimensions of the inner journey. And you can get this on Audible, and I'm sure that it's on Amazon too and a lot of other places. So Awakening is Real, a guide to the deeper dimensions of the inner journey by Jack Cornfield. This from Ellie Wiesel, the Nobel Prize winner. He said, suffering confers neither privileges nor rights. It all depends on how you use it. If you use it to increase the anguish of yourself or others, you are degrading, even betraying it. And yet the day will come when we shall understand that suffering can also

elevate human beings. God help us to bear our suffering well. So that really speaks about taking the difficulties of one's life, whether it's the spiritual path, or well, there isn't really anything else, frankly. It's the spiritual path, or nothing basically, because that's what your difficulties are. I mean, you know the old kind of trite saying, you're not a human being having spiritual experiences, you're a spiritual being having human experiences, and using them to remember who we are. So sometimes it happens in an accidental way, but in meditation, one deliberately turns toward difficulty, or turns toward the measure of suffering that we're given in life, and says, all right, let me find something that's

greater in this heart and mind, through which I can understand and live wisely. There's a passage in the Maji Menekai where the Buddha says, and so I reflected, perhaps I should face my fear. This is the Buddha before he was enlightened. Maybe I should seek out those dark groves, the deepest and wildest parts of the forest, or the charnel grounds and funeral grounds, on the new moon of the month where no light shines, and go out there in the places most feared by humans, and sit or stand in such a place, and not move, while all the wild sounds of the forests and the winds and the animals are heard around me, and not move until I had faced my fear absolutely and fully, and conquered it. So that was the Buddhist little trip into that, and he did.

Face your fear. Go into the shadows. We don't have fields of dead bodies that we can sit around these days, and if you do have one, you should call the police immediately, and there's no, if you want to get eaten by a wild animal these days, you actually have to work at it. You used to be able to just stand outside of your hut, and a wolf would come out of the forest and drag you away, but these days, the wolves and the graveyards, they live in our minds, and I love the idea of transforming them into teachers. I love the idea. I'm not very good at executing the idea. In fact, this stuff, as much as I love to talk about it and play clips from it, it's really hard for me to use it, and when I was waiting for these test results, and just in a

deep state of anxiety, nothing helped, really. Nothing helped, but the cool thing about Buddhism, and the cool thing about meditation is that it's not something that you're in a rush. It's not something that you can rush. It's just a tool that you can have in the toolbox for the inevitable time when you find yourself in the graveyards and dark parts of the forest of modern life. So hopefully that helps. Jack Kornfield's fantastic. For those of you who are going through the heavy shit right now, I highly recommend that audiobook. You can find out more about him by going to jackkornfield.com. The Dunk of Trussell Family Hour podcast is brought to you by Squarespace.com. Squarespace is a company where you can finally bring your idea for an award

winning website into existence. You don't have to learn to code anymore. You don't have to snort Adderall until 4am and rub cocaine into your gum so that you can digest some brand new technological language that will allow you to build a website. Don't do it. Coding can drive you insane. Literally, you can lose your mind from having to deal with formatting HTML and action script, and God knows what. I learned to code four years ago. I learned how to code in action script, and the way I did was by taking amphetamines. I took speed that one of my friends gave me for like three days straight and went to a deep coding trance. It was blissful and demonic. I felt like I was staring into the necronomicon. I felt like at any moment some dark digital demon could come clambering out of my

computer screen and rip my eyeballs out and fly off to some dark peak and throw them over the edge. It wasn't fun, and this dangerous dark path of coding is why so many web designers have completely lost their minds and why when you run into them, if you turn your back on them for just a second, you can see their eyes look up into the sky. You can see their eyes dilate and they'll begin to mutter weird strings of code as some kind of prayer. They lose their minds. They become characters in HP Lovecraft's story. For those of you who are web designers and right to complain about the fact that from time to time I jab at you guys during these square space commercials, I'm not talking about you. There are a lot of great web designers out there. I use one. His name's Steve. He's amazing.

He's the guy who designed my website. His company's called Chromadial. He's a great person and an excellent web designer, but not everyone on this planet can afford a web designer right away. Sometimes you want to just dip your toe into the digital water and find out if that business selling journals made of grandmother flesh is going to be profitable before you go and get a supremely advanced website. Squarespace.com, it's there for you. It starts at plan start at $8.99 a month. If you sign up, they give you a free domain name. They've got everything you need to make a professional website. From a blog to a podcast website to a shopping cart so that you can sell stuff. It's all there. They've got a great customer service department. I tested it out to make sure that

they were accessible and available and they get back to you right away. You need that. Even though Squarespace is easy to use, it's still building a website, which can be a little complicated. Sometimes you need an expert to guide you along through the design process. Go to Squarespace.com, $9 a month starting off. If you put in the code Duncan, you will get 10% off the website. There's also a 15-day trial period. You can check them out to make sure that they're what you want to use. We're also brought to you by ShoredesignTshirts.com. If you're like me, then you have unicorn soft, sensitive skin. Your skin is more sensitive than the vulva of a newborn unicorn. It's so sensitive that if you wear regular T-shirts, your skin reacts in the same way that

the skin of a satanic child reacts when doused in holy water. You erupt in boils and spray a combination of blood and pus and sweat out into the world. You actually turn into a satanic sprinkler, just spraying death all around you. If I wear a regular cotton T-shirt, then I actually have to go to the hospital for two weeks to deal with the severe boils and diseases that break out all over my body because my skin is so special and so, so very soft. But thanks to Shoredesign T-shirts, I don't have to worry about going to the hospital every time I accidentally put on a friend's shirt. I get to enjoy the blissful experience. It feels like you're being embraced by the wings of a gargoyle. Yes, yes, I think this is the second time I've talked about gargoyles in this podcast,

which is weird. Don't know why my mind keeps going to the gargs, but maybe it's because I just found out that gargoyles are very sensitive loving creatures that have been completely misunderstood, and they are great at giving hugs because their wings are so very soft and because they're so lonely because they've been rejected for so long. Shoredesign T-shirts figured this out a long time ago, and what they did is they started luring lonely gargoyles into their T-shirt company using ads on Craigslist. Swarms of lonely gargoyles descend on the Shoredesign T-shirts manufacturing plant in Thailand thinking that they're going to find a soulmate or someone to love them. In fact, what they find is a grinder because they're shoved into this grinder, liquefied, and the liquefied

gargoyle wings are what's used as the fabric for these wonderful shirts. If you don't believe me, order one. Go to ShoredesignT-shirts.com, check out their amazing designs, and if you put my name in, you will get 10% off these wonderful, wonderful shirts. We're also sponsored by Audible.com. You can go to AudibleTrial.com, you get a free audiobook. In fact, you could download the Jack Cornfield audiobook that I just played for you for free, so check them out. Finally, we're sponsored by Amazon.com. There is a portal on our website, and this is the easiest thing that you could do to support the podcast. If you are shopping on Amazon and if you're not shopping on Amazon, what's wrong with you? Are you really going to drive out into the world?

Are you really going to drag your meat body into society and deal with the swarms of negative energy pouring off the poor, desperate people who haven't figured out that you can now order everything that you need on the internet without ever having to step foot into the germ-laden hell citadels that are retail stores across America? You don't want to go to a target, you don't want to go to a Walmart. Children go into these places and they vomit on literally everything. They put everything into their mouth, they rub their sick botulisms. I don't know why kids have botulism, but kids are dirty, dirty things, they're just filthy. I was in a cafe the other day and there was somebody's kid laying on the floor, literally licking the tiles of a

coffee shop, and the mother looked down and said, just building up his immune system, insane parents, insane children. You don't want to go to a retail store, it's a volcano of pus. It's like shopping inside the boil of a leper. Stay at home, it's safe, you can control everything. Go to Amazon.com, but go through our portal located at DuncanTrussell.com. The next time you feel like ordering condoms, butt plugs, the embarrassing things that you don't want to deal with at drug stores, you can order them on Amazon.com and they'll come to your house. They also, if you live in New York or LA, there's something called Amazon Fresh, it's amazing. Grocery delivery service and it's healthy, organic groceries. I tried, I ordered

delicious kale, it's never delicious, but I ordered healthy kale and some salmon. Amazon.com, go through our portal. And finally, if you really want to go nuts and support this podcast, you can support us by either by donating and thanks to those of you who have been donating or by buying a t-shirt or poster or sticker or downloading one of our bonus episodes. Thanks for hanging in through this introduction, everybody. I love all of you. Thank you so much for listening. And now it is with great pleasure and joy that I turn the podcast over to two of the most interesting people on planet Earth. Chris Ryan, who is the author of the bestselling book, Sex at Dawn, which is a sort of biological approach to exploring

monogamy and non-monogamy and polyamory and also an anthropological observation of the different ways that people deal with monogamy or non-monogamy. And it's an incredible book and it will reduce guilt that you might be feeling if you're in a monogamous relationship and think something might be going wrong because you're wanting to hump somebody, your neighbor or something. It's completely natural. Chris Ryan also has an incredible podcast called Tangentially Speaking, and you can find that by going to feralaudio.com. Also joining us on this podcast is the legendary comedian Joe Rogan, who is host of the Joe Rogan Experience podcast, which is one of the most popular podcasts on planet Earth. He's also one of my best friends and I love him. So now everybody,

please open your third eyes, send your love tendrils in the direction of Chris Ryan and Joe Rogan. There's a grunt solo in that song. There's like a whole maybe 20-second section where the guy's just going... It's fantastic. That was Chris Ryan that you just heard everybody. And we are here on one of the most epic Duncan Trussell Family Hour podcasts of all time. I'm here with the great Chris Ryan and my friend and mentor, Joe Rogan. That's a lot of responsibility. I really can't be your mentor. Maybe I've graduated. 100%. We're just buddies. I made you a mentee. But you did. At one time. You did take me under your wing. You totally did. Well, you can put it that way. What I saw is an awesome human being that could use a little bit of help. It worked.

Duncan and I have had some awesome times together. We lived together for a bit. Really? Yeah, Duncan lived in my place for a little bit. I was engaged to be married and my fiancé left me at the altar and I ended up... Yeah, she gave me... Well, virtually. Not really. But she gave me the boot and I ended up at Joe Rogan's house and what's really funny about it... Crying in the rain. No, it was pretty seamless. It was seamless, but I was depressed as fuck. You were depressed. I was depressed, man. I can remember driving up to your house. I don't remember who's... I was in your... Was it my car? It was in my car. I was riding me up to your house and I'm trying to play Elliot Smith because I'm so depressed. You're like, turn this shit off.

You're like wallowing. You had a whole fucking swimming pool full of mud. You were just rowing around and wallowing. But that was the cool thing. He wouldn't let me... He kept pushing me away. He was... What you were doing was really smart because you were like just sort of in a cool way pointing to where I am like wallowing or getting off on the pain. I never really... It took me probably a few years after that to realize just how much I was using suffering as a drug to get off on. But that was the beginning of really realizing like, wow, man, I'm just... I get off on this. Like, I want this kind of experience. I want this kind of suffering. A lot of people do, man. A lot of people enjoy the extremity. The extremity of the pain, of the

knowing that their life is falling apart. And then they almost like, it's a self-fulfilling thing. They just create more drama and more bullshit in their life. I was just telling you like, dude, you're a young, funny, smart comedian. You're already good. Like, your life is a fucking amazing ride right now. Oh, this girl doesn't like you anymore. One day she'll love you. Okay? One day she'll miss you so much. Just come on. Come on in. Yeah. And Duncan started going in my tank every day. He started going in the isolation tank. And that's like a big part of like what allowed him to sort it out really pretty quickly, dude. I mean, you don't give yourself enough credit for how quickly you bounce back. And we're like talking like really rationally about the situation.

Because it was pretty quick. Well, I mean, you know, I wish that I could say I agree with you, but I don't think I don't think I really bounce back. It took me a long time to figure out that pattern. But I just went, you know, I've been cleaning my house and I went through this closet and I had six boxes filled with journals from the last 15 years of my life, maybe longer. And the really dismaying realization that came to me was the shit I was writing in the journal when I was 16 is almost identical to the shit I was writing in that journal that you found at your house after that breakup. Oh, wow. You found a journal like the bread song? Well, I didn't read it out of respect, but my housekeeper wrote in Duncan's journal,

Duncan left his journal behind and she wrote a love letter to her boyfriend. What? In the same journal? Yes. Yeah, it's in there. That journal is just a magnet for two years. Isn't that hilarious? Like I didn't know about it. I Duncan left it at my place for a fucking years it was sitting on my desk for years. I swear to God, I never read it. I opened it up and I said, Oh, this is Duncan's journal, but I have a lot of respect for what people write. There's no way I would read your shit. That's very cool. It's not I would know. I mean, there's no way. It just took you years to get around to giving it back. No, he just never came by and got it. And he even came by my house since then, but never wind up getting for whatever reason. And then one day,

most likely, but one day I handed it to him and then just the other day he sends me a text. He's like, dude, that fucking journal has like a Spanish love letter in it. You want me to read it? Have you translated it? No, no, no, no. Out of respect for my housekeeper. I put it into Google translator and it was definitely a love letter, but I couldn't really make out. It's very sweet. Why did she write it in your journal? I think it was just laying around my house and she didn't think it was anything. You know, she thought it was just some open pages that she could write in. It was just sitting there. You know, my fantasy was that some mystical Spanish shaman had read my journal and wrote the answer to my problems at the back like, Oh, wandering soul, I know you're suffering

in here, but it was just some is just another love stricken human. What is that? How creepy would that be if it was that? And some of that would be like a premise in a movie, like some magical woman wrote in your journal and like you've you like set up security cameras, how the fuck is she getting in? Yeah, she keeps writing in your journal every night. I knew the Spanish. Yeah, I know when you were ready, you will read this and you know, like now is the time now is the time like a reverse sinister a horror movie where the ghost loves you. They keep like fucking up trying to help you. Yeah, they get in the way, you know, or the timing is bad or something. Yeah, man. I what is that conflict conflict in Chris Ryan? What's the what is that? Why you are the master

of evolutionary biology? Why is it built into us this this thing where we we lament and suffer and miss people that we've been intimate with? What is that? Is there some reason for that? Is there a biological explanation for that? Yeah, I think so, because the feeling loved by people feeling protected and respected by people is survival. You know, for our species, that's what made us survive that we had these communities that were so multi dimensional and interdependent. This is why being rejected by friends hurts worse than anything. Yeah, right. Like if you've got a group of friends, and you know, for some reason, they decide they don't want to hang with you anymore, that hurts worse than, you know, like losing a limb long term. It's a very, very painful thing

for human being. That makes sense to me, man. But I don't under that makes sense to your friends and your family. Right. But why someone that you're mating with this heartbreak is this what's even more intense because you're allowing yourself to be completely intimate with them, you're naked with them, you're touching tongues, you know, you're touching tongues, your penis is inside them, you know, you're grabbing her ass, you see her asshole, you know, all things that you taste. Wait, is that with the W or? It's an H, just a regular age, but it could be whole. It's both, in fact. Well, I was thinking about this, I was talking to a friend earlier today, actually, about this, and how the way I knew this woman in, let's say in a city we won't name,

who had a job where she worked about 10 hours a day. She lived alone, sexy, beautiful, smart woman, and she couldn't bear to come home alone. So she got a dog. She got this yappy little dog, no offense to Fox, who's not yappy. And this dog stayed alone in her apartment all the time. And there was like a little mat for the dog to shit on and the neighbors complain. And so, and I was thinking like, and I talked to her about it, and she's like, but I love that dog. Wait a minute, you love that dog or you love the love that dog gives you? Because what you're doing to that dog is cruel. Yes. From the dog's perspective, I don't see a lot of love here, right? I see what you're getting out of it. And so I think the problem is that we mistake the feeling of being loved

for love. That's demonic. That's so satanic, man. Think about that. It's just clumsy. It's not demonic. It's just dumb and poorly thought out. There's nothing demonic about it. You know, it reminds me of this thing I was just reading in Buddhism. The last time we got together and talked, you were saying there's this passivity in Buddhism. And I was just reading this book and it was talking about how there is a difference between mindfulness and being unattached and being detached. There's a difference and a huge difference. One difference is you're numb to the world. You're not feeling it. You're actually like shut down to the world. And the other one is you're completely open to the world, but you're not clinging to any

single experience. Exactly. It's the difference between loneliness and aloneness. The Buddha called the difference the one where you're closed off, but you're pretending that you're opened up. He said that is the closest enemy to awakening because you fool yourself into thinking that you're awakened or you're a realized being just because you're shut off to the world or you're like playing it cool. But this isn't about playing it cool at all. It's about feeling everything completely. So what you're saying is that hipsters are satanic. You're essentially saying that the detached hipster. Especially the goth ones. Those are my favorite. Those need the biggest hug. Exactly, Joe. It's so funny you said that man.

Let's go hug goths. They need the biggest ones. We'll go to some concerts and just hug everyone. They don't even they don't they don't want to pat. Don't pat a goth. Rub, rub, like really centrally with no like self consciousness. You have to like rub their back with love. If you hug them and pat them, they know it's like the dad pat from that awkward fucking dad that's you know in the military or something. It doesn't really know what the fuck to do with these little kids. All right, yeah. Don't cry. Don't kill yourself. I won't be able to deal with it. It's so funny when you realize that that thing that you're realizing that is the seed of compassion. And the problem with that is when you realize that the whatever you want to call it, it's not

just hipsters watch locked up raw. Those people are doing the exact same thing. Harden prisoners who are like they don't feel anything. They don't feel all you're seeing is varying degrees of cowardice. You're just seeing a different version of being afraid to experience life. Well, in your life going back to you at that moment when you were really depressed when you broke up with your your girl and you guys were separated and you were really freaking out. Listen to Elliott Smith what the message that I think you get when you're kind to other people is you also need to be kind to yourself. And you are always kind to other people. You're a very friendly, nice, warm guy. But I don't think you were so nice to yourself. And I don't think you appreciated yourself and

enjoyed yourself. And me as an objective observer, sort of objective, you're your good friend. I love you. I thought you were awesome. We were good friends. So it didn't I didn't get why you would beat yourself up. I didn't get him like, dude, you're awesome. Like, what are you talking about? Like, you're funny, you're smart, you're introspective, you're constantly analyzing, you have these new angle we have. Duncan and I used to have conversations when he was the talent booker at the comedy store, I would call in your comics, call in and give their dates, like they say, hey, I'm here Tuesday and Friday. And then they would, you know, book you. He would give it to Mitzi, I guess. Did you give it to Mitzi? Yeah. And later Tommy, did you have to work

with Tommy? Tommy was my protege. He created a monster. But Duncan and I would have these conversations where I would call up and we'd have these long conversations where I would just call up and I would say, hey, yeah, I'm here Friday and Saturday. What's going on, man? What are you doing? And then he and I would just have these fucking, you know, we really became phone friends. Oh, this is before you knew each other? No, we knew each other from the store, you know, the comedy store is a real camaraderie environment for us. It's like an academy. It's an artist colony. Yeah, Ari talks about that a lot too. He was there. Like Hogwarts. It's also a place where everyone is given respect. Like one of the cool things about the comedy store is the

highest level comedians will mingle with the Sunday Night Open Micers and everybody's just comics, you know, that's legitimately true. Yeah, we used to hang in the back with Eddie Griffin, Damon Wayans, you know, whoever came by. I mean, it was just comics. When I was nobody, I was there and when I got on television. But there's still some puffed up turds who come wandering through there. What's cool about it is you get to witness universal justice all the time because you'll see somebody come strutting through there puffed up like they just like had a meeting with Zeus or something. They have to go on after Joey Diaz. Yeah, you can watch. Yeah, you'll watch that level of justice, but then you watch a much darker justice, which is that the audience turns. No,

you see them three years later. You know, after whatever the thing is they got all puffed up about is inevitably faded away. And that thing that they were using is their main identification or the main thing that they're like, this is C. I am a good person. I got a show. I got a show. I got a show. And then and then you get to watch so you get to watch this amazing rise and fall of like, but but you so you see you really see people for what they are because when you run into somebody who's all puffed up and shitty because they've gotten a little bit of success, then or you run into somebody like, I remember like watching Robin fucking Williams, whatever you think about Robin Williams as a comic, that's a famous, super famous mega star as far as comedy goes. And I remember watching

him standing outside of the original room. And he was talking to two tourists, like, you know, a guy in dad pants and a woman wearing Hawaiian, a Hawaiian shirt. And I you know, I was like, looking at him to see like, I wonder how you interacts with these people. It was like he's talking to his best friends. He was just right there with them listening, asking them questions, talking to them, not like in a hurry to get away. And I'm like, that is once you've seen that, you have no excuse to be a shithead to somebody because you got a fucking comedy central special. Dum dum. Did I tell you my Robin Williams story? No, I was at the improv, did a show at the improv,

like one of the weekend shows where I was headlining for the whole weekend. And I always take pictures with people after show trial to as much as possible. And this guy came up and I was talking to him and he was just he was holding my hand shaking my hand and telling me I was I had this this dolphin consciousness bit of this bit about this idea. It was a real epiphany that I had when I was really high on pot cookies, watching these dolphins play, I was playing with them and cheering with them within why wild dolphins. And while this is going on, I was like, I think they're no different than us. I think they're just in a different body and they can't control their environment like we can. I started trying to analyze what it would be to be a dolphin.

And then I thought about it like what if I was like if I was in his body, what if I literally would be him, I would do what he did if I lived his life. And then I started thinking about that with people. And I said, Well, what if everybody is essentially the exact same thing? We're just going through different biological filters, different life experiences, different genetics, different circumstances that we have to handle. And I changed my way. I look at people. I decided to start looking at people as if they were me living another life. And it really happened like trip B is nice to someone as you would be to if you ran into you and you were living another life. But you got to really, it's got to internalize. You got to really, it takes a while to put that

into your head. So I started doing it in a joke form, just talking about this. And I didn't even realize this guy who was praising this bit was Robin Williams. I didn't know he's a tiny guy. I thought it was just some old guy with glasses. And I was in the middle of shaking hands with this guy and holding this guy's hand when I went, This is fucking Robin Williams. Like, whoa, this is weird. That's cool. It was really cool. It was intense. And I've criticized him before. You know, he's not a perfect person. He's done a lot of plagiarism. I think he's very talented, but I also think he has an exorbitant need to be loved, a substantial need to be loved, like a lot of us do. And I think he came from a time of less accountability. You know, our time

had experienced a few scandals, the Dennis Leary, Bill Hicks thing, and we'd seen the damages that could be done by plagiarism. And our generation of comics were vehemently against it. Yeah. And people grow, you know, people change, you know, whatever. He was on a bunch of coke, you know, that's no excuse. Drugs is not an excuse to be an asshole, but that it's certainly if you're, if you're doing something wrong and you're doing cocaine, it's going to amp what you're up, what you're doing. 100%. 100%. Not to pull this too far away, but are you guys familiar with the aquatic ape theory? Can you describe that? I would love to have that explained. And while you describe it, I'm going to turn the volume up. So I have to crouch down here. You think it sounds

okay? Chris Ryan sounds okay? I sound, do I sound all right? I sound a little delicious. I sound great. I'm told I have a sexy body. You don't think he sounds distant because I'm wearing different headphones than you guys are. Listen to mine because I'm sorry about this, you guys. Don't worry about this. Don't worry. I'm telling you. So should I just do the grunt solo? Yeah, let's hear it. Jungle boogie. Oh, no, you're, he's fine. It's fine. It's your headphones. There you go. Just probably your headphones are probably slightly unscrewed or something. Sorry about that, you guys. It's good headphones. You're cheap bastard. You got fucking sponsors now. Living in a house. These do feel kind of plasticy. I got those. Those are old.

They're dog shit. Those are from the old days. I do need to upgrade. Well, there's some charm to them. Keep it bohemian. Exactly. So aquatic ape theory, right. The basic idea is that humans at some point in distant, in the distant past, millions of years ago, probably after we split from the chimpanzees about five million years ago. So we're talking three, four million years ago probably. The idea is that these proto hominids lived along the shoreline in parts of Africa that were warm and the water's warm. And so the place that has the most food and is the safest is the sort of tidal zone of the water. So you've got, and when you're in that kind of area, you're not getting attacked by sharks because it's not

really deep enough for sharks to come in and you're not getting attacked by leopards and terrestrial predators because you're in the water. So plus there's other clams and mussels and all this kind of shit in the water. So there's a lot of food there and it's comfortable. The body, the water temperature is close to body temperature, so it's comfortable that way. So the idea is that at some point, these animals split into two species, one of which eventually became dolphins and the other of which came back to land. But the sort of explanation for all this is that there's a lot of stuff about humans that appears, that's convergent with marine mammals. Like for example, of all the apes, we're the only ones who have saltwater tears.

We've got, we're the only ape with subcutaneous fat. We're the only ape that if you drop an infant in water, it knows to hold its breath. Any other ape, you know, you drop a baby chimpanzee in water, it just breathes water and drowns. A human, you've seen that cover of that nirvana record, you know, that's a baby underwater holding his breath. What dick is doing the experiment where he's dropping baby chimps in water? Hey, it's knowledge. You got to pursue knowledge. What's the evolutionary mechanism of becoming a dolphin from a chimp or from an early chimp? That's wild.

Well, you know, all aquatic mammals were at some point land animals. That's why they have lungs. That really hurts my brain when I start thinking about how long it took for that to take place. Yeah, yeah, it's hard to wrap your head around. And that throws a giant monkey ranch into the whole aliens made humans theory. The difference between a person and a monkey is not nearly as weird as the difference between a monkey and a fucking dolphin. Right, right.

But now here's what's really interesting. If you look at dolphin anatomy, it's almost the same as human anatomy. The brain, the heart, the lungs, the, you know, like in inner anatomy of a dolphin is very similar to human. I just what I like what you're saying, it leaves room for mermaids. What you're saying there, it really does. What's the in between space, man? It's like you have these proto hominids and then you have the the the dolphin. But in between there, you've got a merman. Well, the idea is that mermaids were manatees, you know, manatees.

I know I've heard that that like horny sailors pulled manatees on their ships. I'm not buying it. If they didn't fucking nobody waved a magic wand or hit a microwave button, and all of a sudden the, you know, a chimp became a dolphin. It was a process. I have been so horny, man, in my life. But I have never been so horny that I would fuck a manatee. Do you know how horny you have to be to, if you've seen a fucking sea cow, a manatee, it's got barnacles and oozing sores.

Fuck some weird shit. I mean, I don't need to tell you that. You know, people fuck farm animals and, you know, pieces of meat folded over and stuffed in a manatee's jar. Yeah, but okay, let's think about the difference between fucking a sheep and fucking a manatee. A sheep, you've got to, it's in your barn, you corner the thing and you can fuck it. It's so you're not really, you're raping a sheep. Let's just tell the truth. Who knows? This thing doesn't want you in there.

Why don't you know that? It probably doesn't know it wants you if it had to choose. If you'd say stomp once for you want me to fuck you, stomp twice for no, it would probably fucking, you're not going to fuck me, man. Just give me some food and stuff. But wait a minute, I got to stand up for the film. What an unlucky sheep. You're taking my fucking fur. Now you want to fuck me. You're killing my babies and eating them too, by the way. That's what lamb is.

Lamb is baby sheep. You know, when they get older, they get tough and wiry and it's not so good unless it's a stew. I'm thinking you might go to the sheep and the sheep's like, wait a minute, you're going to fuck me or you're going to kill me and eat me? I'll take the fucking. Well, that sounds like rape. If you fucking storm a village and said, listen, you got a choice. I'm going to fuck your baby or I'm going to kill it and eat it. Yeah, yeah.

That's romance. That's Jesus Christ. Well, when you fucking, do I get it back? That's a quality problem. Anyway, here's the, I mean, the deciding factor is, you know, you're on a ship, right? You're on some fucking ship with your friends, you're with like a bunch of British rapists at sea for five years, killing whales or whatever the fuck you're doing, beating seals around the world. There are no sheep, dude. There are no sheep. It's like a manatee or, you know, some ugly British dude.

I picked the ugly British dude over, over, over. Listen, man, if I've got a pick between fucking some like withered version of Russell Brand with like a, with a, with a, with a hook, with a hook hand or I've got a sunburn or I've got to dive into the shark infested waters to try to like lasso a massive rhino type thing. I don't think they're actually fucking it. I think it's more of a, just an idea that there could be a woman out there that saw them and like, I think we have a hard time understanding A, what it would be like to live in an area where if you wanted to picture something, you had to fucking draw it. Right. I mean, you're, you're talking about a long ass time ago and

their perception of all these unique things that they would encounter was insanely ignorant. You literally knew what, I don't like the way I said that. It's not very pretentious. The way I said, literally, literally, literally knew, you literally knew what you saw and that is it. Everything else was a really abstract expression of these things. If you saw the Rocky Mountains in a painting, would you really know what the Rocky Mountains look like? No, you would have to take this artist's interpretation of that experience. But if you were there and you saw the Rocky Mountains, you would be like, wow, that's the fucking Rocky Mountain. Like you're, you only know what you've experienced. So all of a sudden you're on a boat and there's this

undocumented animal that you find in a place where you've had nothing but fucking potatoes for six months and you're dying of diseases and everyone smells like shit and they're throwing up and vomiting. You would imagine that it was a woman. You saw her in the water. It was misty. It was dark. There's a woman in the water. There's a woman in the water. She's calling to me, man. Some crazy fuck really thinks that it's a woman. He jumps overboard. He's dead. The siren dragged into the rocks. No, he was an asshole. That guy was an asshole. There was a test, a massive test. We all got over a wooden boat and sailed across the ocean. This guy failed. He failed hardcore. The siren called me into the rocks. No, the universe wanted you to get your weak fucking

seeds and jump overboard with them. Guaranteed nobody stopped him from jumping in there. They're like, hey, there's a fucking mermaid in there for you, Tommy. She's calling you, Tommy. Go to her. Hey, it wasn't his fault. Mrs. Johnson, they led him with magic to the rocks. I like that these sailors turned into New Jersey people. New Jersey garbage men. The floating mafios. Yeah, they're just assholes. Well, okay, now, following your line of logic there, then, do you think that the human imagination is is devolving, is withering away? Because we've got, like, now it's like you don't even have to imagine anything. Like, when's the last time you jerked off without looking at porn? All the time. Can you just close your eyes? I do that in bed.

Yeah, I do that in bed. Yeah, if I'm in bed, I need to go to sleep. I just just think about things and I jerk off. Wow. All right, so you still got a vivid imagination. How many, what do you have like your top five masturbation memories? Spank. No, they're all just functional. You make stuff up. Yeah, sometimes. It's not just caveman shit. Just get it out of my body and start to go to sleep. I'm not, I'm not like trying to enjoy the fantasy. It's not like sex. Like, you know, when you, I think one of the people that, there's people that appreciate sex and there's people that I bet nobody wants to fuck. Because the people that when nobody wants to fuck you for whether

it's a physical thing or your personality, you probably don't appreciate what it's like when two people actually want to fuck each other. Like, without saying anybody's name, a friend of mine was telling me the other day that he just got back with his ex-girlfriend. They had a little bit of a breakup. And he got back with his ex-girlfriend and I was like, how was it when you guys fucked? Like, it was fucking incredible. It was amazing. Are you talking about me? I don't want to say it. I'm trying not to say it. I wasn't going to say it. I don't know if you like talking about like personal things on the air. On the last, on my last podcast. You went into depth about it. No, on the last, on the last, on the last podcast, I actually asked the audience, is it possible to

get back together with your ex-girlfriend? Is that, is anyone to have that? Don't ever ask that question. Does that ever work? Because of course it's possible. You're doing it. But no, I'm glad I asked because you get, no, I'm, this is the thing I'm learning as a side note before we, before we get, before we get into that. As a side note, here's what I'm learning. The audience, like, I, like, I ask them questions about stuff and they email me answers and they're fucking good answers. Like, the last podcast I asked, because I got to get chest x-rays tomorrow, because I have to do this every four months and it sucks and it stresses me out and it's like, I don't like doing this. I'm freaked out about it. I don't, and for two years I've got to be freaked

out every four months. I've got to get freaked out every four months to get these x-rays. Is any, is anyone out there dealing with this? Do you have tricks for how to deal with this? Because I don't know how to deal with it. I keep freaking out over it. And man, I got like, so many responses and all the responses were like, I've got to, some of them were like, I have a cyst in my brain. I have like, you know, like stuff from people who are experiencing this, the whole spectrum of medical anxiety. And wow, man, it really helps me to read all the different, like the advice that they gave me, like the best advice, you know, the best advice was, it sounds morbid, but it's pretty cool, which is like, look at your life, find out what you love

about your life, what you're proud of that you've done in your life, think about what you've done and realize that even if right now you die, you've had a great life. Just recognize that. Just recognize that you're living right now. Be in the moment. People keep saying that. Like, bring it back to the moment. Don't cling to things and just know that you can't stop time, no matter what this situation is going to change. So I got that just from asking, throwing this question out there. The thing about the ex-girlfriend, you know, I got a bunch of sweet emails back, which is like, you know, I'm married. I married a girl I broke up with and we have kids and I love her and the home's filled with love, but it was hard. It's

hard. And so anyway, and yes, the sex is amazing when you get back together with your ex-girlfriend. My point being that people that don't think that sex is a big deal, I don't think they've experienced sex with someone who wants to have sex with them, whether it's their physical body, whether it's their personality, whether it's the relationship that they chose. I mean, there's people that have unappealing bodies to you or I, but to each other, they love each other so much, their bodies are delicious. Right. I think there's a lot of people that don't, they don't get that success, just like some people never get good friends. I know a woman, she is in her seventies and she doesn't have any friends and she hasn't any friends for a long time.

She has children and she stays in touch with them and she's kind of burdened someone away because she's very overbearing and always negative, but she doesn't have friends. And then there's people like you and I who have a bunch of great friends. Right. One of the main reasons I stay in LA, one of the main reasons why I don't just fucking pack up and go to Colorado, is because all my friends are here. Me too. We're all fucking each other up because we're stuck in LA. I'm getting very close to buying a giant chunk of land in Colorado and starting a compound. Wow. I was thinking about this. I was listening to you and Shane Smith talking about this. He was saying how the more he sort of gets to know these people in the upper echelons of

government and corporations, the more he sees that a lot of them have like, what's he called it, escape hatch or something. Like a piece of land, a house, somewhere, if shit gets crazy, they've got a place to go. And I was thinking about that. And the problem with that is they'll be alone. And what we really should do is like people like you guys are talking about like, you guys really have a community. I don't really have that. I'm tempted to move to LA actually simply because I've met so many great people. I hate LA. Come here with us. I don't live in LA. Well, you live, you know, I live out in the boonies. Right. That's the boonies. But you drive an hour, like to hang with Duncan for an hour, then you drive an hour back.

So what, you know how often I do that? It's not that often. What do you have a nine to five job that I don't know about? No, no, no, no, no, traffic at 7am. Exactly. So what are you worried about? The times that you're driving are going to be completely unusual. Yeah. Not only that, like you don't have to be centrally located. You don't have to live in the shit. You know, you just live in a nice place where it's quite fucked. You can live in Santa Barbara. I love Topanga. But anyway, my point is that I really like this idea of having a place out there that you can escape to. But I think the key is have it have the community there. Yes. Like have 15 really good friends all you don't have to you don't have to own the same property or whatever.

But you're all there. So like you can all go there in the summer. And you know, it's like, yeah, let's all get away together. Because being isolated, it ain't going to work. Yeah. It's like that movie where the kid, what's that movie? Into the wild? Is that it? Yes. The guy goes to the woods, then realize once he's in the woods, you can't enjoy this by yourself. Right. Like we fucking need each other, whether we like it or not, we need each other. I like it. I like that we need each other. Because I think if you, you put out the right vibe, you can surround yourself with the right people and you can have a cool group of humans that you surround yourself with. Well, that gets us back to the first point you raised, right? Like why do we get so attached

to somebody who loves us? It's because that's your community. Think about how many people you know whose community is their mate. We obviously are separate. We obviously are different from each other. We're separate from each other. But yet we're not. Because we can't rely on each other. We can't exist. If we exist completely solitary, we either go crazy or we were crazy in order to accept that. Right. Like when you think about like the fucking unibomber type, the Ted Kaczynski guy, he's by himself in the woods in a cabin and riding crazy shit. Yeah. Just completely by himself. Like that. That's a broken mind. What's the worst punishment you can give a criminal? Solidary confinement. Yeah. And Amnesty International considers that torture, by the way. It is. Well,

it is. I mean, you think about what happened to Bradley Manning after he released all those WikiLeaks documents. They left that guy naked in a cold room where he could barely keep his body temperature warm enough to stay alive. And they gave him solitary for years. 24 hour light. 24 hour light. And the dude was not convicted of anything at the time. These demons. Sorry. And they kept it going on for years. It's I mean, it's really unbelievably evil. And anyone involved in that should be stripped of power. They should remove them from any position of power. Right away. They'll say what you're doing is fundamentally anti human, regardless of what this guy did. If this guy ate babies, I could maybe understand it and maybe you should just shoot him and get

it over with. But all this guy did was he made a moral judgment about information that he believed would change the way people view what he believes is an unjust war because he's a part of it. All right. That's not a debate. What kind of a fucking society do we have if that's not subject for debate? And if this guy is a traitor, because he showed something that actually did take place that whole that was illegal. Yeah, that whole fucking thing where they're they're shooting missiles and they find out that there's kids in the van. They're like, fuck them. They shouldn't take their kids. You're like, whoa. Yeah, we that is no judgment. Take judgment out. That is information. Okay, and that's information that we should all have access to. If we want to make

an informed decision about whether or not we support a war, right, whether we no judgment aside, we don't say you those guys are pigs, they should die or hey, those guys are in a crazy situation. They're just human beings and you and I would do the exact same thing. Forget a bolt, forget both sides of that coin and just say that's information. It's like one of your kids comes to you and tells you that their uncle is molesting the other kid. And so like if you have two kids and a kid tells you, hey, you know, John's getting molested by uncle William. And then instead of being like, thank you for telling me, you're very courageous for telling me that we're going to take care of this. You're safe. It's like you little shit. You take that kid and you

put him in the room and lock him in the light on and take his clothes off and turn the air conditioning off. Patty, I just wanted to save William. But also, I mean, take it to the next level. Like you said, even if he's eating babies, you know, maybe you should shoot him, whatever. The thing is, we've got this incredibly punitive sense of punishment where like even if the guy is eating babies, it doesn't help anyone to torture him, right? Those babies are gone. So all you're doing is you're saying, we got to separate this guy from society. So do that. Not really. What they're really doing is they're letting that information get out so everyone knows if you ever fuck up and go against the government again, expect this. Yes, this is what we do. Fuck you as hard as we can.

But you know, the thing is, and you're right about that, of course, there's a publicity element to this. But the thing is, we're doing this, we, the United States government is doing this to thousands of prisoners all over the country who are in perpetual solitary for the rest of their lives for no purpose. There's no reason. It's just a, it's just because they're bad and we want to fuck them. It's important to realize that it's not just the United States government. It's all governments. It's most governments. No, wait a minute. We've got a higher percentage of our population in prison than any other country on earth. That's because every other country, you can just get away with crime and no one gives a fuck. Go to China and kill somebody,

they go, wow, what do you want me to do? No, China, they fuck, China, they execute. Fuck, man, the goddamn, those, those wax museums, those wax museums filled with plastinated, very busy. Can I investigate? What do you want me to do? So I can say I was not here during this racist element. How is it racist to make a Chinese accent? I really want to know how you can't make fun of, can I make fun of an Englishman and am I a racist now? Yeah. Well, and how come Chinaman's racist as a word in Englishman? Exactly. Might as a racist to talk about Australians. No, that's not racist. But if I go, I'm going to try to, you'll kill someone. I am very busy. Now all of a sudden, I'm a racist or our Chinese people, all your fucking, and some of

the Chinese people complaining, by the way, white liberals with armpit hair, they're like, enough of this fucking male privilege, white male privilege. Did you see the trouble? Did you see what trouble Natasha got in? Did you see your awesome apology letter? Yes, it was fantastic. The last thing, it was beautiful. It was about as good as I could get. I tweeted that and some guy was like, some like smug dickhead was, was like, oh yeah, her publicist just set that whole thing up. This is all just to raise her profile. That's just a fool. Dude. There's no need to, no need to even talk about that guy. He's paranoid fucks, man. They're the same people who fucking government, man. No, the fucking, what are they called? The drama actors, conflict

actors? What are they called? What do you have in your hand that's, that's been lit on fire? This? Yeah. Aubrey gave me this. This is, this is, this is the wood that they burn when you're doing ayahuasca ceremonies. It smells really good. But I'm, I'm going to get a beer. Is there anyone else? Yeah, we'll all take one. Let's take a pause. We don't have to pause. No, we don't have to pause. We'll just wait for Chris to come back. No, it's, what are those things? We just, let's talk about Chris. He's beautiful. He's a beautiful man. What did we, what were we talking about right before I interrupted you? So rude. Oh god, like that's, that's exact. That's like a component of podcasts is interrupting each other and

forgetting what we were talking about. That's a big part of it. And people at home going, what the fuck? You guys never completed that story. Well, dude, um, can I smell it? Yeah. What is it called? Do you know? I can't remember. It's really light. But that's the, I bet that's, that smells like doing ayahuasca. Yeah, it sure does. Doesn't it? It smells like fear or love. Yeah, but they're the both the same. They're next door neighbors. Oh, they are. Well, fear is like, yeah. Isn't it weird that we let everybody use fire? Well, any fucking asshole, anybody, you can be a five-year-old kid. Can I get some matches? You don't have to have a fire license. You can have a license to use fire. One of the most destructive forces on earth. Ridiculous element. And think about all the

different things that are flammable that you could just buy slowly but surely and accumulate from a liquor store or from, you know, any drug store. Just think about, go to a car place, you know, that's think about all the different things you could light on fire. Dude, I was just watching this show. It's, I don't remember what it's called, but basically they just, they drop X military vets in really shitty places. Dude, you're screwed. Yeah, it's pretty cool, man. And this guy, he took some kind of component that's in the stuff that you put into flowers, you know, like the little packets that come when you have flowers and you dump it in the water. If you take that and you mix it with antifreeze, it creates a flammable chemical and bursts and like, well, start a fire.

Whoa. So if you take flour powder and mix it with antifreeze, it starts a fire. You don't even need a fucking match. You just like pour that and flour powder and boof. I don't know flour powder is a word for it. Sounds like a type of acid or something. Dude, the thing I wanted to talk to you about that you were, that you were describing with the dolphins is something that I've been reading, which is, so I'm reading this book on Buddhist psychology by Jack Cornfield and it's fucking awesome how deep Buddha went into breaking down the way human beings experience reality. And so the idea is that there is a field of consciousness that we are in, like water, like fish swimming in water. So there's a field of consciousness that we're in and they compare it to, they use two

comparisons. They compare it to a mirror, this consciousness, this field of consciousness, in the way you look in a mirror, a mirror can be reflecting anything. It can be reflecting a beautiful girl. It can be reflecting tigers eating somebody. The mirror is not affected by the reflection at all. So that's this field of consciousness completely not affected by the things that are emerging into it and never touched by the things emerging into it. So the field of consciousness is like a thing that is flowing through us and we're flavoring it with our experiences. So the experiences that you have as a person is like dropping dye into water and there's these temporary colorings of this field of consciousness and

that's the human experience. And so the idea is you begin to watch. If you begin to watch, you will start to notice that your experience is broken down into bits into like these little beads or moments of experience. And with the more you meditate, apparently the more you realize that like, you know, the way you breathe, like if you start watching your breath, this is what I love about meditation and meditating lately and you start, you start, you just watch your breath. That's it. So you sit, you watch your inhales through the nose and exhales through the mouth and you just watch your breath. That's all it is. You just watch your breath and suddenly you realize, fuck man, I've never paid attention to the way I breathe. Like I've never even noticed the way I

breathe. And you'll notice that when you inhale, there's a microsecond where you're not breathing anymore. The breath stops. There's a pause in between the inhale and the exhale and the exhale and the inhale. There's this weird little pause, this moment of no breathing. And that's a really important moment in Buddhism because it's supposed to represent the exact same thing that's happening with these moments of experience that make up our, the threat of our existence. And in between each of these beats or moments of experience, there's this pause. It's a micro pause, like a, probably shorter than a millisecond, but it's a pause. And that pause is the field of pure consciousness, which is what we actually are. That's what you really are. You're not, you're the

person that you think you are is the experience of consciousness meeting this temporary manifestation that's the atomic cloud or swirl of particles that makes up a Joe Rogan. But that's not what you are. You're just consciousness flowing through it, like water through a sea cave or something, you know? It's really cool, man. It's really cool because the idea is that the more you let go of this identity of the self, the more you move into this expansiveness. That's what they call it. They use really cool terms for clear mind. They always use like the sky expansiveness. It's this open field of freedom. It's freedom, really. So that reminded me of the joke you were talking about. And your joke is very similar to an idea in Buddhist psychology.

That's very fascinating that you flavor reality around you. And that mirrors the idea that psychedelic trips, when you have a psychedelic trip, you are experiencing the psychedelic trips of everyone who's ever experienced them before, all connected together as like a mosaic. Have you ever heard that about psychedelics? It's one of the weird things they say about things like, what was the shit that Timothy, Special K? Ketamine. Timothy Leary was really into, not Timothy Leary, John Lily. Lily was into ketamine and isolation tanks. He would whack himself with ketamine and go into an isolation tank. And dolphins. Yes. His thing was that, like McKenna described, taking ketamine as it's like there's no experiences there. You go there, it's like a city of empty office buildings.

And you're like, you're wandering around like, where is everybody? Like, what's going on here? And it's like, that's the feeling that you got. Like you were really new to the party. Whereas if you take mushrooms, you're dealing with thousands and thousands of years of experiences. Also why when you do ayahuasca, you experience snakes, jaguars, all the different things of the jungle, black people. There's all these different like archetypes that repeat themselves over and over again in the ayahuasca experience. So much so that it's really hard to deny that these same things might somehow or another be connected because this is the experiences of the people that took this ayahuasca in this place for thousands and thousands of years. And there's their

concerns, dancing, jaguars, snakes. What do you think about that, Chris Ryan? I've had two ayahuasca experiences. I didn't see any snakes or jaguars in either one of them. But I mean, I'm not sure if this is directly related, but I think it is. You're talking about fields and intersecting fields. I have this, I've had experiences twice now, once with ayahuasca and once with piety, where something really freaking bizarre happened before I took the drug. And in the case of piety, before I knew I was going to take the drug. So it seemed as if there was some sort of like a field that got to me first before the experience. Dude, I have had the exact same experience with LSD, where like I can remember back when I used to take acid all the

time, I can remember in the morning, I remember once clearly in the morning thinking, I'm going to take LSD tonight, I can already feel that I'm going to take LSD tonight. I had no acid, no access to acid, didn't know anybody who had it. But like that afternoon, I remember running into someone who was selling acid and like he sold me acid and I took it. But I remember feeling like this backwards, I know exactly what you're saying, like time is melting backwards. Now, the non psychedelic skeptic would say, this is because you were thinking about LSD for a long time. So there were many days where you're like, man, I'm going to get acid today. And you didn't get any acid. Or they're like, you took, we were taking acid every other day. So there's like 80% chance.

When you, when you say the weird things happen to you, what did you, what did you mean? Like, what were these things? You want me to, it's like a three minute story. So I'm in Brazil, first time ever with Stanley Kripner, who you've met and hopefully you'll meet at some point. We were in Porto Alegre. It was my first trip with him. He was my, my professor in grad school and he invited me as first trip I went on with him. And then later he and I went to 30 probably countries around the world together. But this is our first trip together. And he, before we went, he said, is there anything you'd like to check out when we're in Brazil? We were doing a trip in Porto Alegre Salvador and Rio. And Stanley is famous in Brazil, like really famous. Like there

there was a crowd of people at the airport to greet us and, you know, sign his books. He's the godfather of Brazilian parapsychology. He's like, anyway, so, so we're in Porto and I told him, I'd like to check out ayahuasca. So he, you know, wrote to somebody and arranged that we would go and visit one of the two churches in Brazil that has permission to use governmental permission to use ayahuasca in their ceremonies. There's Santo Daime and União de Vegetal, UDV. So we went to a UDV church. So these guys came and picked us up in Porto Alegre. And we're in the car driving to this place. I'm not sure how far away it is, but we've been driving, you know, maybe half an hour on the highway. And we turned off and we're going down this bumpy road. Stanley's in the front seat,

passenger seat. There's the Brazilian guy driving, another Brazilian guy in the back. And the three of them are all chatting in Portuguese, which I don't speak, but Stanley does. So I'm just looking out the window, right? And we're sort of bumping along this dirt road. And they're, you know, typical scene you'd imagine, like, you know, little houses, chickens, kids running around with no pants on, you know, like a real rural third world kind of scene. We're cruising, we're going on maybe 10 kilometers an hour just bumping along. And I look and walking down, I'm in the back right seat, and walking down toward us on the left side is this beautiful woman in a sari, like an Indian sari with a bindi, the red dot in her forehead. And she's carrying like a shallow soup bowl.

And she's carrying it really carefully so she won't spill it. And she's stepping carefully and she's hot. So I'm checking her out. And I sort of turn and check her out from the back as we go by. And I'm thinking, man, I hope she's part of this thing. You know, I hope it's close up here because she was really sweet. And, and then we pull 100 meters out, we pull in. I forget, we're getting out of the car. And I say to Stanley, Hey, did you see that woman back there? And he said, No, I said, Oh, man, smoking woman back there. And this is my first trip to Brazil. So I'm like, I'll key it up on Brazilian women, you know, right. And so then they show us around the place, they show us where they grow the the two plants that they mix and they make the brew

and all that. And then we have a light dinner. And then like two hours later, we go into this room where they're going to have the ceremony. And there's a table up front for the guests, one of which is us. And then there are all these folding chairs and rows. And as we go into the room, she's sitting in one of the front rows. And I say to Stanley, Yeah, there's that woman I saw. And he said, Oh, yeah, she's beautiful. Oh, great. So we go, we sit down, we take the tea. And you know, the way they do it in that church is you drink everybody drinks the tea and then you just sort of sit there in dim lighting for a couple hours. And everyone has their experience. And you just sit there with your eyes closed and you have your experience. And then there's what

they call a mestre, the teacher, they'll bring up the lights and people talk about what they saw, what they experienced and he'll sort of lead a bit of a group therapy kind of thing talking about, you know, what we're learning today or what you learned or whatever. It's a very cool thing, wonderful, very effective. I want to do that with addictions and things like that. Anyway, so okay, I at this point, I was in the process of separating from a woman I really loved a lot. And there was no anger or play the Hulk music. No recrimination. What's Hulk music? The piano music when the Hulk would walk away at the end of every episode. Oh, yeah. Okay, I'll play that. So you don't play it. Don't let me. I'm sorry. So you can edit that in later.

So anyway, it's a very painful process because we loved each other, but she wanted to have kids and, you know, a beach house and I was like a guy was never going to have any money. And you know, that's not my thing. And so sad when you really like someone and you just can't meet. But you know what? She and her husband are two of my best friends in the world. They've got our cats. They've had our cats for the last two years and all our shit in their attic. Really? Yeah, they're wonderful people. We were at their wedding, you know, it's wonderful. But anyway, so so but it was very painful because I think when most people break up, they like slice the knot and we were untying it, you know, trying not to hurt anyone, you know.

And so it was painful. And as I was tripping, I kept looking at this woman who was sitting there with her eyes closed. So I wasn't, you know, making her uncomfortable. But I would look at her and she would help me because she would just make me tune me into the fact that there are other women, there will be love, there will be happiness. I know, you know, it'll it's going to be all right, just remind myself the world is full of beauty and love. And anyway, but she doesn't, you know, she's Brazilian, she doesn't even speak English, whatever. It's not about her individually, right? Yes. So the whole thing happens and they do the ceremony and the talking, the therapy and all that. And then it's over. And we get up and the mestre says, Oh, Christopher, have you met Hasila?

Her name was Hasila. And she comes over, she speaks perfect English. Hey, how are you? And I said, I got a, I got a puke because I was like waiting to puke. I ran outside and puke and I came back in and I said, man, the gods have a sense of humor because ever since I saw you on the road out there, I've been wanting to meet you. You're just so striking. Like, you know, the way you're dressed and you're beautiful and you're here in this rural like setting and wow. And she's like, wow, how long are you going to be in Puerto Alegre? A few days, whatever. Here's my number. Okay. So then I hooked up with her in Puerto Alegre. We went out. We had dinner a couple of times. She took me to her house. She was much younger than

me. She was like 21. I was probably 30, 36 or something at that point. And I remember we were lying on her bed in her house. She was showing me pictures. She had grown up, her parents were Sanyasin. She had grown up in Hawaii, Oregon, India and Brazil, which is why she spoke English so well. And she was showing me and she had been raped. Somebody when she was 11 had given her acid and raped her. Oh my God. Yeah. So she'd had some real traumatic shit. And I remember she's showing me pictures and telling me the story and she looks at me and she says, this is the first time I've ever been alone with a man and I wasn't afraid. Wow. It was so beautiful. Now, I didn't, when I say I hooked up with her, we didn't have sex. It was nothing. It was just, you know,

beautiful friendship. Wow. That's so crazy. Okay. Now, last night, the last night I'm in Porto Alegre, I meet her for a drink, say goodbye. And I say to her, you know, this has been great. This is, you know, my first experience in real life. She turned me on to Carlinhos Brown. You know, I never heard Carlinhos Brown. I don't know that. Oh, he's like the James Brown of Brazilian music. He's fantastic. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. You'd know his music if you heard it. Anyway, so she turned me on to all this great music. She introduced me to friends and I was just like, this is so wonderful to meet you and what you've given me in just a couple of days. And since I saw you on that road, I knew that you, you just had this energy and she's looking at me

and she says, listen, I didn't want to say anything earlier, but now that I know you a little bit, I think you'll be okay with this. I was never on that road. Holy shit. That's nuts. She said, I don't know what you saw, but I was taking care of the kids behind the building. I don't know anybody out there. There's no reason for me to be walking on that road. I where would I be going? Listen, she had an acid flashback. That's all that is. She forgot she was on the road. No. She gave her acid when she was 11. She had an acid flashback when she was 21. That's somebody who's never taken acid talking, ladies and gentlemen. Joe Rogan has never taken OSD. One of the great travesties of the modern world. Why is that travesty?

Because, man. It's one of the classic psychedelics. Right. But why do I need to follow all the classics? The same reason you should read Play-Doh. It's an important experience. Is this the gentleman, Carlinos Brown? Yeah. That's the dude. Yeah, he's great. Look, man. I want to be a skeptic, but I can't be a skeptic anymore. I believe that there's something else that pokes into the world from time to time. This certainly is. There no doubt is something else out there. I mean, that's what the imagination is. The imagination is something undescribable. People want to quantify it, and they even want to diminish it by saying that it's something silly. Oh, he's imagining that he's on Mars. Poor little Billy with his cardboard

sword. He's imagining. He's a gladiator. But the imagination is responsible for this fucking podcast. It's responsible for microphones. It's responsible for electrical cables. It's responsible for the internet. It's responsible for the house that you're living in. It's responsible for every fucking single thing we're wearing that we drove. It's all a manifestation of the imagination. The imagination is literally the fucking machine that creates everything we see in human society. It's not a little thing. It's the fucking thing. It's the thing. It's the greatest thing that anybody's ever... Hey, you don't need imagination, which needs hard work. You fucking show up on time. You do your job, and you go to bed with a sense of satisfaction.

And you jerk off, and you go, when you do it. That guy doesn't have a Budweiser bottle to drink unless someone figured out how to make glass. That's all the imagination. The imagination is the whole fucking ball of wax. It's the silent... Oh, shy. I didn't do anything. No, no, it was you guys. It's the imagination. The whole thing is the imagination. Even language comes out of the imagination. The idea of making a noise with your fucking face comes out of the imagination. All of it does. The imagination figured out how to hunt. When you see an orangutan getting ants with sticks, when they stick sticks in there, that is the imagination. What do you think that is? Describe that. What do you think the imagination is? What is that? It's the machine that creates,

and it's the machine that changes. Why a machine? Because I think that it's all the same. I think there's a machine, there's a genetic machine that allows a caterpillar to become a butterfly, and then there's imagination that allows a human being to one day physically manifest the big change. You know, it's weird because imagination existed prior to machines. Like, imagination was there when there were no machines. But it grew the same way humans grew, the same way a woolly man grew. Machines grow out of imagination. Yes, all of it does. Not that it matters. It's, you know, whatever. It's semantics, but it's like the term machine. When I hear the term machine, I think of this, like, right angles and a cold, dead thing. The

imagination is, yeah, inorganic. You know the greatest Marshall McLuhan quote ever? I know what you're going to say, but say it. Human beings are the sex organs of the machine world. Yes. God damn it, he wrote that in the 60s. Yeah, we're all like walking clitori. Is that plural clitoris? Is it clitori? It is now. Is it really? It was never used even more than one. They're too shamed. We're shaves too. Only one clit is fine. There's no need to say clitoris. Garden of clitori. Can I interest you in a bowl of clitori? I only eat lamb clitori. And while they kill the lamb, whether you like it or not, it's not so bad to eat the clitori. It's actually quite green. It's so weird that we are the clitori of the

earth. We're like the earth we are. Do you know the clitoris is the only organ in the human body whose sole purpose is pleasure? That's you obviously never seen my butt. I haven't ever documented it. It's pure pleasure. Speaking of which Conor Habib says hello, I just talked to him the other day and he was like, yeah. I got to do a podcast with that dude. I heard he's quite fascinating. He is. He's super cool. I'm a bad friend. I got to go have coffee like I fucked. I'm sorry Conor Habib. I'm a bad friend. Oh, sweetie. You'd never fucking clean out your voicemails though. I like Duncan's strategy for never getting voicemails. He never deletes voicemails. Very intentional. Can't you just not have a voicemail box? Extremely in just text. I had to take

on that strategy for the Rogan board. I'm just getting too many private messages because you could just send me a private message. I can't answer them all. It's impossible. Did somebody tweeted something yesterday like with me and you and I don't know. It was that thing with you and Nancy Grace. Do you see that? So for some reason it was like Nancy Grace saying, pot makes you fat and sloppy and Joe saying, yeah, you can abuse anything. Even cheeseburgers. And there's a picture of Joe looking like super fit and Nancy Grace looking sloppy and fat. And so the point was, you know, come on. But anyway, my name was, for some reason, my Twitter handle was included in that. And now I can't look at Twitter because it's just flooded with retweets and mentions.

My Twitter is a cascade. I have 1,200,000 and as of the time of this podcast, somewhere around 50, 250,000 people. So I like that you keep that much of a track on my fucking. I'm on it every day. I think it's a valuable resource for communication. I learn more from things people send me. The way it used to be, it's like the idea of Twitter was like super narcissistic. Everybody was like, I don't give a fuck if you're going to the movies. Because that's where people would do like on my way to the show on my way to the movies in the car with Mike, you know, like people were writing really dumb shit. And then somewhere along the line, people said, no, no, no, this is good because it keeps people from being verbose. This 140 text

limit is actually probably a good idea because it shrinks URLs, the tiny URL option. So because of that, you're allowed to like transmit information at a rate that's just never been possible before because blogs are too goddamn long. Nobody wants to read your bullshit. Nobody wants to watch your video or you pontificate for fucking 20 minutes. But if you send a tweet, they tweet 140 characters, science invents new form of skin, you know, whatever, you send it to me and I'm like, holy shit, I read it and I retweet it. A million 200,000 people then have access to that. And then they go, oh, if you fucking send that guy some cool shit, he'll retweet it. And then a million people see it, send it to him. So they send it to me and you become like a portal.

But how do you how do you manage the volume? I can't do what I can do. So you just don't have any obligation when you've got time to read whatever is current and you miss what I do it in good faith, do it all in good faith. I read what I can I go on when I can I do but I don't let it take over my life because it would take over every second of every day of every minute of it would be impossible to ever have time to do anything else. That thing you just fucking tweeted dude of the Iranian man who hasn't taken a shower in 30 years. He smokes animal shit. Yeah, he smokes animals done. It's like the dirtiest man on earth. It's he's comedically dirty. Like you see the picture of him with six cigarettes in his

hand. That's fucking amazing. And you would fuck him before Emanity. No, I don't think so. There wouldn't be hesitation. I wouldn't want to be within a 20 mile radius of that guy. Yeah, I feel like I'm really fortunate to be in this weird portal position. And that's how I view my my take on things is that I for people people have entrusted in me the responsibility of being a portal because I've been so adamant about my thoughts and what I believe and you know my my philosophies and being nice to people and that we're all together in this thing and then because of that people tweet me shit on a regular basis and they know that I'll tweet it out. So what I think it really is is like it's a portal situation like this guy can handle it. He knows that he

knows what to do with this. Send him the information. You know, you send some of the information and they can pop up how they get sent it to a million people. That's never existed before a good TV show a good TV show on cable. If you're lucky, we got a million viewers last night. Wow. Well, Twitter gets a million viewers every fucking minute. Yeah, every minute of every day, anything you send Dr. Chris Ryan, you know, you send Chris Ryan PhD. Do you send that to me? I send that out. And then the people that are on my Twitter, the combined millions of them. So if someone sends something like retweeted 6000 times, that's not just retweeted 6000 times, it's retweeted 6000 times and then seen by how many people on each retweet. Because it's

exponential. You know what, man, there was a transhumanist I met at that GF 2014, 45, 2045 convention we went to, which is that convention by the Russian billionaire Dmitry Ichkov. Yes, but I can't remember. God damn it. I wish I could remember his names really cool. He listened to our podcast, but he was talking about how like Twitter and technology is actually creating these sort of technological neurological correlates. Not Jason Silva. It wasn't Silva. No, this was like one of the other guys there. There's so many smart guys there. But the idea is it's like what you're talking about is you sort of become a synapse and in this sort of technological brain. And it's like all this information is like flowing through and you're

sort of like picking what information to continue up the line. And what I really love about what you're saying is you step away from the ego, you step away from the idea like, like I've, it's me. And you realize, like, I don't know why, but for whatever reason, I'm a conduit for information. But that's really what it is. That is what it is. It's a nice way to say it. You know, you're complimenting me saying, you know, step away from the ego, but it is what it is. I'd be a fool to think of anything other than that. Just don't step into the ego. Yes. But some people do think, no, see, here's the difference because what, so some people, what they do is for whatever shit reason, they get to become a conduit. And then they recognize that they're a conduit. And then

what they start doing is they start monetizing this very simple bit of information that they've figured out. Because there is one really simple thing that you can figure out in the simple, and there's a lot of different ways to say it. But the problem is it's a very simple thing. I think it's a very simple thing. And there's, there's different sentences. It can be described in a sentence, you know, which is like the most simple way to say it is all one, all one, we're all one thing. So that's the fractal that you can unfold and unfold and unfold. And if you unfold that, you've got every religion and every philosophy and everything unfolded in there. But some charismatic assholes, they really figure that shit out. And then instead of just like giving that idea away

as well as they can, they try to turn it into a system. That's when you start getting this system of. Doesn't that seem obvious though, when it's happening? I see, I feel like it's all about intention, the thing across the board. Yes. And even the concept of monetizing it, we both have podcast sponsors. There's nothing wrong with monetizing something as long as it's all done ethically, and it's all done in the right mindset. And I think that it's not about taking advantage of being a conduit. It's not, it's not about that. But it is that once you are a conduit, you know, what, what, what is your obligation? Your obligation is just to be you. And if you're, you know, when you sell things on your podcast, sell things that you actually enjoy and there's

nothing wrong with that. The idea of business, business and making money always being a source of evil, not necessarily. Just like love is not a source of jealousy. It doesn't have to be. Business can be done ethically. If someone has a fruit stand, they grow fruit and they sell it at a reasonable rate and that's where they feed their family. There's no greed there. No, I wasn't thinking about that. I know you weren't. I know you weren't. But it becomes this thing that people love to say they always love to equate and then this guy just starts making money off of it. The idea of making money is always somehow connected with an erosion of ethics, with an erosion of respect for the connection that you have with other people that you shouldn't be allowed to make

money or that someone if they do make money will turn to the dark side. I mean, I don't buy that just like I don't buy all the other assumptions that we lay if you leave a man with a woman who rapes, you leave a woman with your money, she'll spend it. You don't have to clarify. I just need to. I don't have to clarify for you. But for the audience, I want to clarify by saying, I'm talking about the systems of religion where you come into the religion and there is going to be over the course of your lifetime within the religion, all these varying costs that you have to pay. I mean, there's literally like religions like Scientology, for example, that have tears of learning where you are. Now I'm uncomfortable because now you're equating what I do with a

religion. My Twitter handle is a religion. Listen to this, Mr. fucking start a compound. Listen with friends. That was me. I'm ready to go. You know, there's twice twice twice two times in my life. There have been two times in my life where people have told me to shave my head and move into a compound. The first time was when I was hanging out with a Hare Krishna's the second time was when I was hanging out with you. You had taken Rogaine. I was like, take it from a guy who's got a fucking hair transplant scar. Shave your fucking head, man. It's nonsense. You will be so free once you shave your head. Whatever reasons, reasons. It's not a reason. It's the same form. Shave your head. I went further. I went further than you. I went way out. I took the hair from the

back of my head and had them take a strip of it and put it in the front. I'm giving you advice. All his age words. All his temporary. You don't need Rogaine. I stopped that. Take it from Rogaine. No Rogaine. I think all men in their 20s should shave their heads. No, they should. Like when you turn 25 or whatever, every man shaves his head that way that you won't worry about getting bald later. Like you've seen it. It's not that bad. And after you shave your head, go to the airport and give people carnations. I have to pee over your head. Do you guys want more beers? Yeah, sure, keep it coming. I'm good. I'm good. Pussy. Are we pausing this? No, no, no. Let's keep going, man. Let's definitely talk about Duncan. He's such a unique mix of so many different things.

How long you known each other? I want it more than 10 years for sure. I'm not sure when we actually met. It was somewhere, I think in the early 2000s, whenever he started working at the comedy store. It's so important, man, to find people like that, find cool people, and then be close to them. That changes life more than anything. You're an unusual guy in that respect. I know a lot of alpha males, and you're this alpha male guy who isn't ostensibly, I'm not saying that's your trip, right? But you love. And most alpha male guys, it's about dominance. It's about maintaining some sort of hierarchy, and you're not into that trip. I noticed that about Aubrey as well. I met him last week. He's also a friend of yours, and I could see why.

It's like, yeah, it's cool to not have that shit get in the way, but it's unusual. Aubrey's exactly like that. He's my brother. I love that guy. Yeah, I think that's a huge mistake that people make. There's a weakness that they disguise as strength. And that's it, not being loving, not being nice. The best times in life are the loving times. The conflict makes you who you are, but I feel like you should do voluntary conflict in order to work all that stuff out. My real conflict in life, not so much. I mean, I had some issues. My parents got divorced. My stepdad was a young guy, and the whole thing was weird. I was seven years old. We moved from place to place, but my conflicts are very minor in retrospect. If you

really, really reflect on it honestly, my parents were very nice. My stepfather's a great educated guy. My issues were very small. No one abused me. No one beat me up. I got away pretty light, but I found conflict in martial arts and in competition to be a massive part of figuring out what makes me scared, what makes me puff my chest up, what makes me loud, what makes me angry, what makes me insecure. And most of it is uncertainty, an uncertainty about my health, my safety, my future, all these different things. And I found that in the idea of physical hand to hand, one-on-one combat, that you face the most terrifying thing that for a lot of men ever on a regular basis. And then through that, you can see who you really are. Through that,

you can find your character. And I started getting into Musashi, Mimoto Musashi, the Book of Five Rings, and the Book of Five Rings. I actually have a tattooed. My whole right arm is Musashi, Musashi fighting a tiger. First line of that book. Can you say the first line of that book? First line of the book. My name is Miyamoto Musashi, and I have killed 76 men. That's the first line of the fucking book. I have killed 76 men. Wow, that's way bigger than Dahmer. With swords, but he was also a philosopher. He was also a poet. He was also an artist. And he believed that it was very important that you be incredibly well-rounded, that you be artistic, and that you be open, that you not have this ego hanging over your shoulders weighing down your performance because you put

so much weight on your performance being your entire identity. So through martial arts, I realized that's what my fear was. That's what all the chest puffing stuff was. That's what all the aggression stuff was. It was all just fear and insecurity. And in overcoming that fear and insecurity personally, it became much easier to just be really friendly and just really nice to people. So where does stand-up fit into that? It's just fun. It's fun. It's expressive. It's a great art form. It's, to me, the most fun thing I like to do as far as an audience member. If I like to go see some stand-up. If I knew that Duncan and Joey and Ari were performing somewhere and I could sit in the audience and watch, I'd be like, oh, this is going to be great. This is going to be a fun time.

It's fun. But is it also, especially in the early days, about confronting fear and failure? Yeah. Well, you've confronted whether you wanted to or not. I don't think I consciously went into stand-up thinking it was going to be that scary. I don't think I had any fucking idea until I was so scared the first time I went on stage. It was shit in my pants. I was ready to chicken out, man. I was totally ready to bail. Was it an open mic night or something? I thought it was a badass. I was really confused. I thought I was like, I'm a national Taekwondo competitor. I won the fucking US Open. I'm not scared of talking on stage. See, this is where I'm going with it. There may be others, but I can't think of another comic who's also physically intimidating, because generally,

they learn to be funny as a defense in high school. My sense of humor completely came out of being with a bunch of people that were about to go fight and they were terrified. I needed to be the guy that broke up the monotony. I was the guy who made fun. We would be on the bus and we would be traveling to a tournament. People would be scared. I've seen several of my friends get knocked unconscious with head kicks, good people that I really cared about. We were competing, and some of us were in over our heads. I've seen several of my friends get knocked out, good friends that I love to death, and it was scary. I would be the guy that would break everybody up. I would just do impressions of my instructor having sex with female students and rude disrespectful

shit that I would never admit back then. No, man, but you've got a deeper thing than that, man. You know comics have a deeper thing than that. It wasn't just like in the van. I hope this is okay to talk about, but I remember one thing you told me about when you were a kid going to do magic tricks on the pier. Where was that? San Francisco. And how your parents would just let you wander off to go do magic tricks on the pier. Comics come from strange families, man. But the idea of little young baby Rogan doing magic tricks, you had the bug for your whole life. Well, I didn't get enough attention. That's what it was. And I found that I could get attention doing that as a kid, doing the magic tricks. And then as a fighter, I could get attention.

I realized that I felt like between those two times, it was like I got attention through my artwork. I wanted to be a comic book artist. And then when I started doing martial arts, I realized that I had an outlet for all this aggression inside of me, this built up frustration and anger that I had a very unusual outlet. And this was an outlet that would allow me to just blow it all out in training and would literally be free of it for the first time in my life. And when I talked to my parents about it, they're like, you changed, you became a totally different person. You were this weird, scary kid up until you were 14. Just a scary, weird kid that's, you know, I mean, I was always just way quicker to want to punch somebody in the face way quicker

to get the fuck, you know, away from things. If they didn't seem good, I'm like, fuck this, I'm out of here. I was the guy that was like acting on, I was convinced that the world was out to get you. I was convinced that no one was going there to protect me. And I was very hostile to any, any aggression or any weirdness. And then doing martial arts are completely relaxed. See, man, that thing that you just said, this is why compassion is so important because you'll encounter somebody right now who's like that right now, who's like, you know, all defense mechanisms. And if you let your ego take control, you'll be a dick to that person, you'll try to punish them, you'll try to hurt them, or you'll try to get away from them, not realizing that you're

just seeing like a precursor to something that could turn into an amazing being and an amazing, amazing being, you know, there's a, I am, you know, there's all these like sweet stories people tell about the time that they were nice to somebody. And there's this thing I've been trying to write and I was right. I'm going to tell a really quick story, this thing that happened to me about why compassion is so important. When I was in high school, I was, and I just didn't pay attention, and I like had shitty grades, and I didn't care about high school. And so I was in remedial, I was like in the 11th grader, I was senior maybe, and I was in algebra with 10th graders, because I was doing that bad, I just hated high school. And there is this like, there was a bully

in the class, but he was a bully in the 10th grade, and I was a senior, and he was bullying some, he was always bullying, he's bullying some kid. And at the end of class, I like, I grabbed him. It's not fair, I'm like two years, I mean, I'm bigger than him, I grabbed him, I pushed him against the wall, I'm like, you just leave him alone, just fucking leave him alone, you shithead. And like, you know, I walked out of there feeling like a hero, like, yeah, I really love this bully have it. And so then the next day I'm at school, and there's this week, everyone's being weird and shit. That kid, that afternoon went home and shot himself. And Duncan, I always know when you're lying, I'm not lying. I swear to God, come on, I swear my mom. Really? Yeah, that kid went home and

shot himself, he went into the bathroom, and he put a shotgun in his mouth, and he blew his brains out. Now, what? Yes. And he wrote a letter, the letter was, there were other things going on, it wasn't that he wrote this letter like this idiot senior, like shove me in the wall and said, don't be a bully. But if there was a scale, and on one side of the scale was suicide, and one side of the scale was life, and marbles were dropping on those different sides of the scale, I dropped on the suicide part of that scale for sure that day. And I was one of the last experiences that kid had. So I was in high school, I didn't have, no one had taught, no one, no one had taught me about compassion. I never probably never even, I probably heard the word three times and thought it was a

stupid word anyway. So you know, you hear these stories all the time of like, I was the sweet person and the kid like didn't commit suicide. So this is why it's so important to be compassionate to people, because you have to recognize that when I was a kid, I was doing this black and white thing, and I had turned this guy, who was just this lanky, angry kid, I turned him into a villain. This is a villain, he's a bully, and he deserves to be punished for the way he's acting. When the reality is, that kid was suffering so much in his life, that he decided to commit suicide because of the level of suffering that he was experiencing. So when you're around a douchebag, you really are just around somebody who's having a not great life. You're not around a villain, you're around a

person who's deeply suffering, and you're attempt at justice, and you're attempt to like, right the wrong and teach him a lesson. That doesn't work. It doesn't work. It's like the war on poverty, the war on this, the war on that. It's just the amount of damage that the bully can do is so catastrophic that the people who have been bullied by the bully are like, good, fuck him. That guy ruined my life, now he's gone, now the dragon's been slain. They, in my opinion, are more important than the bully. And the bully, if he's going to shoot himself because you told me he was a cunt, okay, I'm sorry he's in that position, but I am far more concerned that you saved that little kid from that big asshole. That's the justice in the universe. You didn't do a bad thing, man. You shouldn't be down

you even looking at me like the way you look when you're telling a joke, which is why I said, Doug, and I know when you're lying, because he will do that to you. He will say, and that boy visits me every night in my dreams, fuck his mouth. No, I feel guilty about that now. You should not feel guilty about that, because I think that what had happened is that kid had escalated into a very bad space of physical violence. And human, I mean, you're not talking about a philosopher, you're talking about a 15 year old kid, okay? And that 15 year old kid does not recognize esoteric ideas or really abstract concepts, or you preaching about compassion, you fucking 17 year old weirdo. What they understand is you slamming them up against a locker and say, hey, fuckhead, cut the

shit. Unless you can invest a massive amount of time. You invest the time. Oh, Jesus, you don't. All right. You never have a lifetime for yourself. No, man, you invest, listen. Kill bullies. Invest the time. No, Joe, do not kill bullies. Love bullies. Listen, it's more effective. Trust me. If bullies know you'll kill them, they'll just be like the future Bradley Mannings. Listen, if they don't know that they're going to get stuck in that 24 hour surveillance, Bradley Manning got bullied a lot. If being a shithead to people fix them, we would be in paradise. You're right. You're right. Being a shithead does not fix them, but the only way to have peace on earth is to kill shitheads. So then once we kill shitheads, there will be no shit. I'm joking. Come on. You know me.

There's a great story told by one of the early American Aikido students who was in Japan studying Aikido. This is like in the 60s or something. I know you think Aikido is probably a bullshit martial art. No, I don't. No, no, no, I don't. It's not that it's not practical. I mean, I don't think it's great for street fighting or something, but what Aikido is really great with is conceptualizing conflict in a way that allows you to neutralize the conflict without getting into a dominant, submissive, kind of hierarchical bullshit. How's that? How's that? Well, because the idea, the central idea of Aikido is to end the conflict without hurting anybody. That's impossible. Well, it's not. How is it possible? That's the beauty of Aikido. Well,

one of the stories that's told by this American guy, you can find it on the subway. Yes. Yeah. So the guy's on the subway. He's training. He's big. He's strong. An ancient story took place on a subway? Yeah. It's recent. It's in like the 60s, right? They used to have subway. So he forces. So he's on the subway and this dude gets on who's drunk and belligerent and starts screaming and like raising hell, right? And so the big, strong American guys checking him out, like, I could take this guy for sure. If things get weird, I'll step in, right? And then the guy starts, he goes over to these girls who are sitting there. I may be misremembering details or whatever, but he starts screaming at these girls and really getting

threatening with these girls. And the American guy's like, all right, fuck it. I'm going to. And so just as he's like getting up from the thing, he hears an old guy go, hey, like he just discovered something, not hey, but hey. And the drunk guy looks at him and it's this old guy and he says, do you like sake? And the guy's like, yeah, what do you care? Oh, my wife and I used to drink a lot of sake is great on an afternoon to drink a little sake and the sun's going down and he starts lulling this guy in with it. You know, he's I'm with you. I get you. I know. And within five minutes, the drunk guy's like got his head on his lap. The way I heard the story is the drunk guy says to him, he's like the old guys like, you know,

me and my wife drink sake and the drunk, the old guy asked him, do you have a wife? And the guy's like, my wife died. Oh, that's right. My wife died two months ago. And then the guy like sits down next to him and starts crying. Right. And that's why he's being a fucking belligerent shithead because he's crazy because his heart's been just cracked open by life. And he's angry. It is possible. And that's how you resolve conflict without even getting hurt. Yeah, but that's not that's not Akita. Well, what Akita was created for was to disarm swords. Well, that's why that's why because the other guy's got a sword you don't. So that's why when the sword's coming at you, you don't block it, you step out of the way and you

give him that trajectory. And so you use I first heard about Akita from a professor of mine in grad school. And then I went and studied with his teacher. And and so the whole point is you don't meet that aggression with your own blocking aggression because you'll get your arm cut off. Right. So you give him that. So if somebody comes at like when I'm doing a public speaking gig or something and somebody comes at me with a question afterwards saying, you know, you know, yeah, you think you know what you're talking about, but you don't know shit about genetics, man, you know, and you you've completely misrepresented. I give him that. Like, yeah, okay, you're right. Yeah, I haven't studied genetics nearly as deeply as you have.

But, you know, if what you say is true, which it probably is, there's still this evidence from the you know, and just swing it around. So like, give him that swing, you're not going to block that. So don't jump right into a conflict. So Akito in conversation as well. Yeah, jiu-jitsu would be a more apt term, because Akito is really just for one aggressive assault that you have to disarm the idea of being the guy is a weapon. Jiu-jitsu is all about never meeting things head on when someone's coming at you, you back up when someone's when someone's resisting you follow through and you always stay in your own point of center. Well, it's all about, you know, look, there's two schools of thought when it comes to grappling, you know, there's the take them down,

smash them, hold on to them. And the jiu-jitsu thought is, if he wants to go left, you go right. If he wants to go right, you go left. If he thinks you're going to take his back, mount him. If he thinks he's good, you're going to mount him, attack his legs. It's like, you're always moving in a lot of misdirection, a lot of technique to jiu-jitsu is without a doubt the most technical martial art. There's so many techniques in different ways that your body can move that the difference between say, an attacking martial art, there's variations in the way to deliver a punch or a kick or something like that. But the amount of variations is incredibly small in comparison to the amount of variables you achieve when you're grappling. Because when you're grappling, you

don't have to worry about balance or you don't have to be standing up on one leg or two legs. Like you're moving around like fucking snakes and wrapping each other up and trying to counter techniques and trying to get a guy to think that you're countering it so you can set something else up and get him to over commit so that you can compromise parts of his body. See, what you just described, man, so many people don't understand that. When I tell people, like, I like to watch the UFC, I like watching fighting. And the reason I like it is because I'm friends with you and you've described it to me in that way. But a lot of people, when they see it, they don't realize that they're looking at this intellectual chess game that's sort of merged

with this physical combat. That's what's cool to me is that what most people don't realize that. They just think, oh, look at the dude's wrestling, man. He's got his ass in his face. No, it's knowledge and discipline. Those are the two most important parts. Knowledge is first, discipline is second. Then the knowledge to understand what's coming up next and intellectualize it and to have it already prepared in your database. If a guy goes this way, you know what to do. If a guy over commits to the Camorra, you go to the Fireside Iron Bar. It's like this part of your brain that's just been conditioned. So that's the number one thing. And then the discipline, the discipline of fucking showing up and getting in shape and getting your, your body does not want

to get into a position where it can roll with a grown man hard for five minutes. Doesn't want to do that. The only way it can do that is you got to force it. You got to tell it, listen, bitch, I don't give a fuck if you're lazy. You're going to take these 70 pound balls of iron, you're going to fucking swing them around and do presses. You're going to do all these things so that you develop this body that can do weird shit that other people can't do. And if you don't do that, you're going to get strangled. What do you want to do? You want to get strangled? No, I could get back in there. And only by doing that, this force of will and, and, and, you know, and focus, that's, that's the only way you can become successful. Do you ever feel in daily life,

not when you're working out or sparring or something? Do you ever feel like you're walking around with a weapon? No, no, I feel like I'm happy that I'm not weak. You know, I feel like if some weird shit goes down and some drunk asshole, you know, it comes to attack me that I know instantly what to do, that it becomes a conflict to me, like physical conflict is a huge part of my life. Like it's been a part of my life for since I was a teenager, a young teenage boy, but doing something. Do you think on any level that makes you seek it? No, no way. I've seen you and I've saw Joe at the comedy store. It was really cool, man. I remember like, you know, knowing Rogan and being, having been around him and gone on tour with him. I've seen

him like, I remember once you were like doing some kicks or like I went, you were like training with some kickboxing trainer and you're like doing kicks. And then like at the end of like training with these kicks, you take the pads off and your fucking legs are bleeding. Yeah, my shins are bleeding. Your shins were fucking, his shins are bleeding because that's how hard he kicks. Like you see him kick and the guy who's like this trainer is like, you watch these ripples going through the poor bastard who's doing the training. So Joe knows that Joe is clearly a disciplined, trained fighter. But I remember once at the comedy store, I don't remember what happened, man. You were talking to some girl and she got weird. I don't remember what it was, but she brings back her

boyfriend. And it was clearly a situation where you could have easily like, it was a, if you had been an asshole and wanted to like prove that you could fight or your ego was caught up in it, you could have easily, this would have been like a, probably a pretty bloody bad situation for that guy. And I remember watching like, I wonder what the fuck's going to happen here? Is he going to like fight? And then you totally diffused it. It was like, it was, there was no ego. You just said exactly the right things to make the guy not feel like he had to be aggressive. And then he walked away with his girlfriend and it was over. I don't think, I remember what you're talking about. That guy did not want to fight. He got in a bad situation where he had a bad drunk, abusive girlfriend

and she was causing problems. And I think he was pretty aware of it. But that's what a martial artist does because a guy, he and I had a sort of like almost instant understanding. I remember that he came over and he's like, Hey man, what happened? And I was like, look, dude, I'm trying to be nice. She's just drunk and I'll do respect. You know, I don't, I just got to get her out of here, brother. You know, it was one of those things. Don't do that dumb guy with the guy in his case. He was cool. Right. He, you know, was you could get in a situation where you have to defend yourself. It's unfortunate. Of course. The reason I asked that there was a brief period in my life when I carried a pistol.

What period was that with the math period? These aren't my original teeth. No, and it was weird because when I had it, I changed the way I saw things, you know, and I was like looking for, not that I was looking to shoot anybody, but I was just aware of the fact that like I got this pistol and it just changed. I mean, I was living in New York. I was riding the subway, you know, it was a weird thing. I had to have it legally. I mean, I had codes to a vault with about a billion dollars worth of goods in it and I worked in the Diamond District at the time. Wow, that's incredible. Weird time in my life. So yeah, so the insurance company,

since I had the code, required that I had this pistol. And so it was just weird. It was like really weird to. You were illegally carrying the pistol. You didn't have to conceal. Legal. Yeah, Eddie Bravo had that situation happen to him. You know, Eddie Bravo to this day, when he goes into Canada, they harass him, not harass him, but they give him extra questions because he was working for a check cashing company and he would carry a giant amount of cash to another place. And as he was on his way, he got pulled over and the cops come up to him. You were legally required to say I have a loaded firearm. Here's my permit. This is my job. And so they take him out of the car, they handcuff him, they check all his credentials and then they let him

go. And even though there was no charge, every time he goes into Canada, they're like, what happened to you when you got arrested for having a gun? And it's like, well, I got arrested, but I was allowed to have the gun. Well, then why did they arrest you? Well, I was working at a check cashing place. Do you have any any proof that you're working? You know, it's like he has to go through this whole hour process. So if I go to Canada with him, like when he was working for the UFC, I'll be like, good luck, bitch. I'm like, I'm not going to walk through that thing with you. Bring me in that room too, man. I had to go in that room with him twice. You sit in that room and they fucking ask you questions. I've been in that room. Comedy. I'm here for comedy. I tell

jokes. That room sucks, man. And you get pulled into that room a lot more coming into the US than going out. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. What's with Ari and the TSA? He gets crazy. Ari gets crazy. I'm gonna pee. You guys talk about Ari. Well, Ari, yeah, Ari has like a Ari and Brendan Walsh have very strong, strong opinions about the TSA and they get very, they're activists, basically. I mean, is it performance art on some level? No, no. No, I think it's that, you know, comedians have a very, they tend to have a anti authority perspective. And so he bristles under the idea that he has to like, you know, he's obviously not a terrorist. He's clearly no threat to anything. The TSA, we all know by now that the TSA misses

stuff coming in all the time. They're not like really that effective at all. It seems to just be a way for people to make money. It's a way to... It's security theater. Yes. That's amazing. Security theater. That's exactly what it is. Yeah. So my opinion with it is I'm usually in a hurry or I just want to get through and I know that's a shitty way to look at it, but I just, I don't, I'm not aggressive with them. Well, I'll say, I mean, they're doing a job. They're getting 12 bucks an hour, right? I mean, the guy, this is the problem with civilization. One of the many problems is that the guy who you're talking to, he's just doing his fucking job, right? He's not the guy who passed the law or decides what they're looking for or who they're pulling over, right? He's just

dude with a low level job. Well, that, isn't that the story of fascism though? Sure. It's the story of everything. Yeah. It's like, so it's like, it's the diffusion of responsibility. Right. And it's like, there's no way that you're going to get to the top of the pyramid with the guy who's like pulling the strings. So if you really, the idea is like, make it so it's not so easy for the people at the bottom of the pyramid. And then maybe that will cause change. I don't, I think Ari, of all my friends, like, I know who I think Ari is at the very top of the list of my friends who I know is going to get arrested. And it's going to be because of what he's doing. Ari's your friend who like when the shit really hits the fan and Alex Jones is right and the New World Order happens.

Ari is the one who's the first to get marched behind the house and shot in the face. Definitely. Sorry. He wouldn't be able to keep his mouth shut. He doesn't keep his mouth shut. He wouldn't be able to. Well, I admire that in a lot of ways because he's not doing it from a position of power. He's just doing it from a logical argument. He's like, well, why? Why can you tell me what to do? Why? We didn't ask for this. This isn't the law. This is crazy. You're just a person. You can't search my bag twice. I was there with him when the guy told him that he was going to search his bag twice. And it was fascinating watching Ari react to it because he was like, come on, let's just go. Come on. You see I'm not a threat. Let me through. And the guy's like,

oh, yeah, you want to talk to me like that? I'll search your bag again. He goes, you don't just get to search my bag again. And he's like, why do you get to search my bag again? You search my bag. Give me my fucking bag. He said, give me my fucking bag. He farted in front of this guy. Okay. The guy's like, you do have to listen to me. And Ari farts loudly. He goes, you got to smell my fart. He goes, go ahead, smell my fart. I mean, he's like standing right next to the guy. The guy might have even thought he was on a TV show because the way Ari was doing it was so over the top. And I'm behind Ari laughing. I've already gone through. Okay. Ari won't take his shoes off. They tell him to take his shoes off. Sorry, it's medical condition. That's how he says

it. Medical condition. I'm not taking my shoes off. So because he won't take his shoes off, they have to search him. So they pat him down and they have to pat him down. He's like, come on, just go, hurry up, hurry up, come on, move. And he taunts him the whole way. And the guy goes, he goes, I'm going to bring my, this is another time in Vegas. He goes, I'm going to bring my supervisor over here. He goes, oh, great, another idiot. Is he the king of the idiots? Yeah, bring him up, bring him over. And he goes, hey, hey, idiot, what are you going to do? You going to tell me I have to take my fucking shoes off too? Let me go. I'm late. I'm going home. And then, you know, they fucking freak out and they don't know what to do. But ultimately, what's revealed

in this is that they're not cops and they aren't just employees and Ari is right. They searched him. They did search him. He goes, I don't have to be nice to you. He goes, he goes, get a better job. He goes, what are you doing is bullshit. He goes, you're fucking enslaving people. You're stealing and you're enslaving people. It was, it's fascinating. He doesn't give a fuck. Ari's a cool guy, man. What a cool freak. He's a loon. Well, he's very confident now too, because he's finally independent. He's also independent. He's going, yeah, he's going to be here for a few months. We're doing some gigs. We're doing, what are we doing? We're doing Chicago Theater, January 24th, 24th. Yeah. Maybe hopefully by the time we get there,

global warming will have firmly kicked in. I feel that the cold, this whole polar vortex is really just the Illuminati getting together, yes, ignore global warming. You know what, man? Somebody tweeted this to me and I love it. They showed that meteor that shot over Russia. Did you see that? No. So it's a, I saw the meteor, but I didn't see the tweet. They tweeted a picture of the meteor flying over Russia and with the trails behind it and they're like, the meteor is dispensing chemtrails. Yeah, it's the Illuminati, brother. It's really cool though when you see a thing that's inarguably a natural object entering the Earth's atmosphere and the exact same trails are coming off of it that are coming off of planes that the chemtrail freaks. You've gotten a lot of

trouble about that, man. It's really funny. It's not trouble. It's foolish people that are uneducated. It's really simple. That it's really unfortunate, but it's really simple. And if people know about this, well, I know that I didn't see that episode of the show. So Joe, there's a chemtrail episode and Joe, Joe came out against chemtrails. He doesn't believe that chemtrails are happening. He says that those are contrails. I agree with you. I don't believe that either. I think it's a bunch of bullshit. And I think it's in the same school of thought with the people. The idea that the fucking Boston bombings, those are actors. What's that called? Those actors? It's called something actors. What's it called? We talked about it right before, conflict actors. Conflict actors. But

like, you know about this, right? The conflict actor thing. So basically, these lunatics say that the Boston bombing is actors who are pretending to be heard. And they do these disgusting gruesome. Yeah, the victims, they do these gruesome diagrams where like they show in one of these diagrams, it's a guy who just had his leg blown off. You see his fucking femur poking out. You see the white bone. Blood is not gouting out at this very second. I don't know why. I'm not a doctor. Blood isn't gouting at that moment. It comes out in heartbeats and spurts. So if the photo was taken in the diastolic stage, there wouldn't be any spurts, right? Exactly. They don't know that. So they're like, look, fake bone, no blood. And then so now they're,

so it's not just bad enough that when you finally ran a marathon, you're probably like, have been training for years to do this marathon. That's the mind of a comic. Start with the training. You finally run a marathon. I think about me. I've been bragging to my friends for months. I'm going to do this marathon. I've been jogging guys. I'm finally getting my shit together. Your first marathon, you end up looking down at your femur because your leg got blown off by a fucking psychopath, right? That's the worst. That's already helped. That's pretty bad. Now let's add to it. Now the picture of you staring down in shock at your femur poking out is being distributed by lunatic idiot. I don't even want to call them lunatics. They don't even deserve to be called

lunatics because they're fucking not lunatics. They're just morons. Like they're not even like lunatics. There's something glorious about a lunatic, free, wild, roaming the world out of his mind. These are just dumbasses, like paranoid dopes. Now your picture is being distributed by paranoid fucking dopes. But the tragedy of it, like the guy who, like the guy who doubted Natasha's thing. The tragedy of it is that there's a germ in there that I actually admire. The germ of saying, I don't believe what I'm told just because it comes across the media. We all admire that. We're all critical things. How about just learn the word diastolic? How about this? You fucking learn the word diastolic and then put your fucking shit pictures up their asshole

because they don't know it. And by the way, these pictures, they'll have a picture of like, people tend to look the same. If I take a blurry picture of a person and put it next to another person, they look kind of the same. And now if we're like, well, they do kind of look the same, that doesn't mean they're the fucking same. If you really want to do it, like if you really believe this is happening, like there's these, I can't remember what they call them, drama. I can't remember the name of the actors. Conflict actors. Conflict actors. Here's what you need to do, fuckface. It's like the fourth time you haven't remembered the phrase Conflict actor. It's infuriating. Are you having some kind of embolism here?

I don't know why this really. It's awesome. It really pisses me off. Embrace it. It really pisses me off. Go, if you really believe this, if you really believe this and the world doesn't believe it, you need to make the pilgrimage to the home of the person whose children were murdered. And you need to go make sure that they're there. And then you need to go find the person that you think looks like them. You have to prove this for real, not just by taking shitty internet JPEGs and posting them up on Twitter. You need to fucking investigate cocksucker, because if you really believe, if this is really happening, it's your moral responsibility to not do lazy research and just tweet some shit picture. You've got to go deep, man. Right. But don't you think it's your

responsibility to treat him with the same compassion that you wish you treated that boy? Don't you think it's your responsibility to take him and use the seeds of what Chris Ryan said? And use the seeds of what Chris Ryan said, is that there is something there that I admire. The fact that they're not willing to just trust what the state-run media is telling them. This is why you need friends. I have really good friends, unfortunately, that believe some of the things I rally against about chemtrails, like me and Eddie Bravo and chemtrails. Look, I love Eddie Bravo to death. That guy is my brother. I love him. I respect him. He's a fucking awesome human being.

But he and I disagree about the chemtrail issue. And I think his heart is in the right place. I think he really wants to make sure that we live in a safe world and he rightly doesn't trust the government. We just disagree about the methodology and we disagree about the problem with the chemtrail thing. And this is one of the things that I got in trouble with with all these people is that there's a real science to the whole idea about chemtrails. Is your dog scratching at the door? No, I just opened it. Oh, yes, want some air? Yeah, we're in a cloud of frankincense and myrrh in here. There's a real Duncan's lightning sense. There's a real science behind it, unfortunately. When you burn jet fuel, which is what a jet engine does, it changes the atmosphere.

When you're driving or you're flying rather through a hazy, cloudy, like semi-cloudy night or day, and either one, when you're going through those clouds and the jet engine burns jet fuel, it creates moisture and literally creates a cloud. It absolutely does create a cloud. Just like when you watch like these is a bunch of videos that are doing people are doing on YouTube because of this polar vortex that they're talking about. Have you seen the supersoaker? Oh, yeah, they spray it boiling water. They spray it. 41 below zero in Winnipeg. So these guys took a supersoaker filled with boiling water and they shot it into the air. You know what happened? Clouds. Looks like chemtrails. It looks like clouds. Clouds are not like a super complicated

thing. And this idea that these are aluminum and barium, like I had Roseanne Barr in my podcast last week and she started spouting off about chemtrails and they were spraying aluminum in the air. And I explained to her like there's a guy who did a documentary on these things and is called What in the World Are They Spraying? And he had this analysis of this water and the water showed that it was X percent aluminum. And I said to him, I said, okay, this water that you had tested, why does it say sludge? It says sludge. And the guy says, well, I don't know, it was water. I said, but did the water have dirt in it? I don't think it did have dirt in it. Well, it says sludge. If it's sludge, it means the lab saw dirt in it. Do you know what percentage of aluminum is in dirt?

At the bottom of a river. Yeah, everywhere. The luminums everywhere. So what you have is dirt that tested positive for being dirt. And you're using that to say that this is why I can prove to you that chemtrails are real. When you if you did see aluminum being sprayed out of a plane, first of all, do you know how much fucking aluminum you would have to spray out of a plane to make clouds that go across the city? It would take millions of pounds of this shit. You wouldn't even be able to fit in a fucking plane. If you blew aluminum out of a jet, it would literally it would be the exact dimensions of the jet in aluminum powder. That's it. If you stuffed it to the back of the fucking pilot's head, you don't have much room for aluminum, fuckhead. Okay,

so if you're flying around spraying aluminum, that shit's going to run dry real quick. These guys are making clouds with a jet engine. Yeah, that's it. And the real concern is not that the real concern is we are getting accustomed to the idea of burning jet fuel in the sky all day. That's the real chemtrail. That's it. Our fucking temperature on earth has changed. You can observe it clearly. The 9-11, the days after 9-11 when they shut down flights, the temperature of the earth noticeably shifted. And it shifted because we're not burning fucking jet fuel in the sky and making artificial clouds. It's not this gigantic global conspiracy to engineer the weather. No, it's a side effect of jet travel. That's it. But here's the thing,

man. So I agree with you and everything you just said. Could I just jump in not to pile on you here? But I just want to follow up the end result of what you're suggesting that that guy go track people down. So it starts with the guy training for the marathon, right? Then he loses his legs. Then he's got people questioning whether it really happened to him. Then if people follow Duncan's advice, they show up in his front fucking heart and knock on his door. I don't need you to know I'm real. Go away. Put my fucking wheelchair down. My son's getting me home in five minutes. I'll fucking kill you. Stop unwrapping my bandages. I'm not going to show you my fucking story. This is not a hologram. What's here? This is the this is I'm sorry. I just had to know

perfect. Don't go hunt them down. It's perfect. That's a beautiful statement. You're right. That in the compassion argument, we shot Duncan right into the fucking middle of the ocean. I deserve it. It's just it's so close after the bully story. It's so all of my friends, Raghu Marcus from the Love Server Member Foundation, all my friends will inevitably I'll go. I'll talk about compassion and then I'll be in the depths of like angrily ranting and judging someone in the most furious dumb way. So I'm no, yeah, I have a lot of work to do, but my point is I got to go to a lot more retreats. Probably like $100,000 for the retreat. First world problem. Yeah. My point is so the chemtrails aren't real. No one's dropping aluminum.

But this is the thing. The real problem with calling non-chemtrails chemtrails is that if there ever was anything the government sprayed out of planes, which they have done in the past, you, you diminish it by crying wolf disinformation accidentally inadvertently distributing disinformation. But that's the chemtrail. That's what I'm trying to say is your disinformation and you spreading fear by talking about something that isn't real and infecting people with that same paranoid nonsense is the chemtrail. You're spreading poison. You're spreading poison by talking about an illusionary thing that is not spreading poison and you have become the fucking chemtrail. And you make other things that are real, real things. You make them a joke. Yes. And

you're distracting attention away from the lack of banking reform, the prison industrial complex, you know, all these things that are real. Well, you see what's going on today, right? You see this Governor Christie thing today. Yeah. What is this Governor Christie thing today about? Well, it's a fucking distraction because they're about to talk about what that is. Some people don't know what that is. Okay, Governor Christie today was he got in trouble because they said that there was a memo amongst staff members that claimed that Governor Christie had threatened to shut down various aspects of the bridge, various lanes of the bridge, and they were doing it just to like for political muscle. To punish someone. Because the mayor of that town didn't endorse him for

reelection. And somebody died in an ambulance because they couldn't, because of the congestion supposedly. Of course, of course. So this sullies his image and this becomes a big scandal. But at the same time, the the Obama administration is silently trying to pass a new trade bill that everyone is freaking out about. And people are it's there, it's congressional deal reached an Obama's trade talks authority. This is a it's a very fascinating thing. This this TPA legislation. There's a massive amount of people that are freaking out about this, and they're calling it the NDAA on steroids. Whoa. Yeah, they're like saying like what they're doing here is changing the way, you know, they can do business and what they can get away with. It's so weird how

like anytime some crazy scandal happens, that's when the shit bills go through. Of course. That in late Fridays, late on Fridays, when you like when you come out and say, Oh, yeah, I did fuck the whore. But anyway, you know, people forget about it over the weekend. They won't hear it. Sorry, I have to piss again. It's the whole thing is very strange. I'm just learning about it. A friend of mine on Twitter. I just I just like to note for the record that I have the biggest bladder in this room. Yeah, you hung in there tough. But it's like you get weak when there's three people you know, you can step out. Yeah, you know, when I'm doing a one on one podcast, if it's just you and me, I know I have to hang in there. Yeah, that's right. You do them live so you can't even hit the

pause button. Yeah, TPP is this legislation. So look into it, folks. I'm just learning about it today. And it's it's pretty fucking scary. It's really, it's really bizarre and fascinating stuff, but it's scary. Ever read Howard Zinn of People's History of the USA? No, I haven't. I've heard it's been recommended to me, but I never got around to reading it. It's fantastic. It's a history of the United States written from the perspective of the losers, right? Because history is always written from the perspective of white upper class men. So this is history of the United States written from the perspective of slaves, Native Americans and women. And it's and it's very it's a huge bestseller. It's been a bestseller since it came out, you know, 1520 years ago. And it's interesting

story about him. He was Matt Damon's next door neighbor, growing up in Boston. He taught at Harvard or MIT or one of the big colleges in Boston there. And Matt Damon's mother was like a single raising him, a single woman. And Mr. Zinn, who lived next door, used to take Matt to, you know, to ball games and to the park. And, you know, they so he was sort of a surrogate dad for Matt Damon growing up. That's probably why he's so fucking smart. Matt Damon is pretty interesting. I mean, I thought it was funny that Matt Stone and Trey Parker decided to make him a complete moron on their that Team America. Oh, he was a puppet in Team America. And he just could just only say Matt Damon, he was like, stupid. But he's very smart.

Very smart. And Ben Affleck is super high IQ as well. Matt Damon had one of the best takes on Sarah Palin. He's like, are we really going to accept that this person and what are we living in a fucking a comedy movie where just a salt of the earth person by circumstance gets into the White House. And she's really going to be a heartbeat away from the White House. I mean, this good old fashioned moxie and she's going to save us from Putin. He's like, what the fuck are you talking about? And I remember him saying that I was like, wow, that is like a movie from the 80s. But and it is reality. And there are the head of the Congressional Committee on Science and Technology believes the earth is 6000 years old. Stop it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. 40 more than 46% of the

United States believes that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. Yeah, according to recent Gallup poll. Yeah, but I don't believe that because I always say this and people criticize it as my lack of understanding about science. But I believe that if you have a poll about how old the earth is, you only have the results of people so fucking stupid, they're willing to take a poll on how old the earth is. That's a good point. I don't think it's 46%. There is critical thing. I don't even think it's 20%. I think you're dealing with a small percentage of fucking idiots. Well, I saw a dancer poll. I saw you interviewing Neil deGrasse Tyson. Was he just on the show once? Yeah, just once. We're trying to work out another one. This thing. He's great. He's great.

I fucked with it, bro. I don't know what it is. No, those things get, yeah. Neil deGrasse Tyson is great. Fantastic. But if I remember correctly, you guys were going back and forth a little bit about the moon landing. Are you a skeptic about that? We weren't going back and forth about it. He was kind of schooling me about, but he's a very, very skeptical guy. And even if it was like really ridiculous, if it wasn't absolutely confirmed scientific consensus that the moon landing was a hoax, he would never be willing to go in that direction. He's a scientific person. Me, I'm an idiot. So if I see a 1% possibility that someone faked a moon landing, I will explore it with every ounce of my being because I find it fascinating. What's really interesting about

the moon landing is that not just have we not been able to go, but that we went seven times, six successfully from 1969 to 1972, and then we just stopped. And when you go back and look at the footage, it looks like horseshit. It looks fake as fuck. If you watch the interviews of the astronauts after they land the press conference, it looks like they're lying. If you look at the actual footage of people falling down and getting up, it looks like they're on wires. I don't think that the moon landing is fake. But what I do think is, first of all, if you're dealing with a situation where you're in another planet, you're in one sixth earth gravity, like our conception of how a person would move and not move is probably very distorted. We have no idea

what it would be like to be in one sixth gravity. It'd probably look really fucking weird and fake because it's not on earth. So our whole, the way we accept movement and see movement and recognize it in our head, it's based on our atmosphere. It's based on our gravity. It's based on the oxygen in the air. When you're on the moon, things are going to be fucking weird. Me as an uneducated, unscientific person, I didn't think of that. I thought, well, this looks fake as fuck. That guy's on wires. And then there's always this automatic need to look to anything from that time as being bullshit. The idea that they did accomplish something in that time, look at what they did with Lee Harvey Oswald and the single bullet theory. Look what they did with the Gulf of Tonkin

when they led us into Vietnam. Look what they did with Nixon and Watergate. It seemed like deception was the standard. And it seemed like the idea of them being noble and telling the truth was probably more preposterous than deception. And then if you look at Neil Armstrong's speech, his 25th anniversary of the moon landing speech, where he talks about truths that can be revealed that under great things that can be accomplished, if they can remove one of truth's hidden layers, he starts giving this really cryptic speech. Have you never heard it? I'll pull it up and I'll play it for the audience. But make no mistake about it. It's not that I don't, I used to believe that people didn't land on the moon.

I used to firmly believe that. I don't believe that anymore. The thing is, in those days, the earth was full of telescopes that were powerful enough to watch. Not really. Not really. They can't go to the moon. They can't see what's on the moon. It's really hard. It's really hard to show. Yeah, there's no telescopic pictures of the moon landing. No one took pictures with telescopes from the earth of the moon landing. I'm aware of. Well, I'm not saying optical telescopes. No, they could observe the path. They're measuring the fucking waves coming off quasars, 100 million. Oh, yeah. Now, here, I'll play it for you. I'll play it for you because this will this will kind of make you freak out because it's a it's very bizarre. And again, this is me not

saying that people didn't go to the moon, but saying it's it's bizarre whether you believe people went to the moon or not. This is a fascinating aspect of the reality that we live in, that this is actually the speech that this guy gave at the 25th anniversary of the moon landing. You ever see Ari and not Ari? Ali G's interview. Yes. You got no fucking signal here at all. Do you have Wi-Fi here, dude? Yeah. Hold on a second. We're going to tell the world. Oatmeal Maiden. Okay, give me a second. Oatmeal Maiden XT. Let me get you. Come on over to Duncan's house and steal his Wi-Fi. We'll crank this back because there's no cell phone here. What is your network? I just interviewed a woman. Oatmeal Maiden XT. Oh, you're serious. Oatmeal Maiden. Wow. Quaker?

I don't use it for anything else. Freedom 108. Yeah. Change that shit. Who's going to get into my fucking network? The people, man. Jesus Christ. That's right at the two hour mark. Thank God. I'll delete it. Yeah, just delete that shit. Or you could just change your password. Okay, I'm back. Good point. Freedom 109. Freedom 110. They'll never guess of that. I just interviewed a woman a couple of days ago who's one of the first women to work in the upper echelons of NASA and she designed the first Landsat, which is still in operation until like two years ago. You know, the satellite that maps the planet of the earth just spins around the earth mapping, mapping, mapping. So they could see like, you know,

that's the satellite that can like say, oh, look, this forest is burning, you know, or this ice cap is receding. That's all her stuff, her work. She's amazing. That's wild. Yeah, some of the new technology that they have. Like if you heard about, I think I've already talked about this with you, but in Africa, how they used one of those satellites to find like a giant reservoir of water. Oh, yeah. And they find the, in archaeology, it's amazing. They found all these road systems in the Amazon. Oh, yeah. It turns out that actually the Amazon was like farmed. Yeah, it was huge. For a long, long, long time. Like way, way back before they thought that people had colonized the Amazon with sophisticated farming techniques, they thought that people were just hunter-gatherers

exclusively. No, they had established communities and they had different paths for water and, you know, they had a lot of shit. Your Wi-Fi sucks a fat one too, buddy. No, it doesn't. How dare you? Well, people can just Google it, right? No, I'm gonna, I'll come up with it eventually. Hold on, I'll get it. What's it, what? It's just for whatever reason. It's not pulling up. I don't know what's happening. What's the, what's the, what is it? Oh, here it is. Here it is. On the 25th anniversary of the event in 1994 Neil Armstrong made a rare public appearance and held back tears as he spoke these brief cryptic remarks before the next generation of taxpayers as they toured the White House. But this is real. Today we have with us a group of students among America's best.

To you we say we've only completed a beginning. We leave you much that is undone. There are great ideas undiscovered. Breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers. Okay, what the fuck does that mean? All right, I'm not saying that that means we didn't go to the moon, but why the fuck would you say that if you're on the 25th anniversary of NASA and you're standing in front of the greatest high school students in the country and you're trying to give them a pep speech or you're trying to explain to them what could be done in this world, what you've done. Why wouldn't you say I've been to the fucking moon, man? Let me tell you something. I just want to, I would much rather him give an hour speech on

truth's protective layers. What the fuck is a protective layer? It's, and here's the thing, people that you fucking don't believe went to the moon. You're fucking idiot. You're a truther. That what I just played you is real. Yeah, it's real. Okay, but it's very strange. I'd like to hear the rest of the context. What he said right after that. I'd also like to know if truth protective layer might be a Shakespearean term or a term. That's good. Let me look it up right now. Let's look at truth's protective layer. If he wrote that speech or someone wrote this. Sounds like a death metal band. All good points. All good points. All good points. And also, even if, you know, like let's assume he wrote it and it's not a Shakespearean term or whatever,

you know, truth is protected by layers of ignorance, by fear, you know, it's a metaphoric term that could reflect lots of different directions. The real issue is that it's very cryptic. Regardless of his intention when he was trying to put out, it is undeniably cryptic. I'm going to read where this is where I go for all my answers. And it's where you should go if you're wondering about something. Yeah, who answers? What did astronaut Neil Armstrong mean when he said they are great ideas undiscovered breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truth's protective layers? Let's look at the best answer. He also said there are places to go beyond belief. What it means is Neil Armstrong found aliens.

I wrote that. By the way, that's that's how good Yahoo! answers is. I wrote that. And he has been sworn never to speak of it. One, he was crying when he said it because he had been sworn never to speak the truth about what he knows. Two, he appears to be speaking in code, which would confirm the things he saw on the moon. Three, former chief of NASA communication systems, Maurice Chat Lane, said Armstrong had indeed reported seeing two UFOs on the rim of a crater. The encounter was common knowledge in NASA. Four, places to go beyond belief equals aliens are already capable of interstellar travel because they are here. Five, breakthroughs available, truth's protective layers, disclosure that aliens are here, learn the truth behind the cover-up and

discover the truth about the most important discovery in all of human history. What Neil Armstrong said to Mission Control. NASA, what's there? Mission Control calling Apollo 11. Apollo 11, these babies are huge, sir. Enormous. Oh my god, you wouldn't believe it. I'm telling you, there are other spacecraft out there lined up on the far side of the crater edge. They're on the moon watching us. Maurice Chat Lane said, we were warned off the moon. Have you ever wondered why the moon missions ended? Whoa! The aliens are like, get the fuck off my property. Just as likely as we fake the moon landing, by the way. Just as likely. All of it, all of it likely. I like this story. I like the idea of aliens on the moon. I like it.

And some grumpy old alien being like, one day those monkeys are going to come up here. I'm telling you. Better get out of here. It's my yard. The moon is their yard. Get off my yard, you fucking hippies. John McCain. Hippies in your space suit. You can't even breathe moon air. Well, fucking pussies. I think that's a great way to end the podcast. Is that it? This has been an amazing podcast. Guys, if you want a three-hour podcast, that's the standard for the Joe Rogan experience. This is already twice as long as my usual podcast, but this has been awesome. Oh, it always will be. And we should tell people what we've decided to do. Oh yeah. So what we're going to do is, all three of us are going to start doing podcasts together, and we're just going to sort of

leapfrog from each person's podcast to the next. Yeah. I mean, we thought it about doing our own, like having like a trial log type podcast, and Duncan didn't realize trial log means conversation between three people. No, I thought it was something weird. We're copying the McKenna Rupert Sheldrick Ralph Abraham name, but it's actually means three people talking. What we were going to do is just start our own, but we decided, well, why would we do that? We already have like all these people that listen to our podcast and only help each of our podcasts individually. So we're just going to go back. So you're up next, Chris. Well, as the baby of the group, I definitely am up for that. That's fantastic. Well, there's no baby in the group.

That's ridiculous. Very nice. There you go. Well, you're more new to podcasting, but not to thinking. And that's what makes it all beautiful. It's a fun way of talking. This is really. Yeah, it's fantastic. It's very unique, you know, the three of us doing it this way. I like it a lot. A lot of fun. It's a blast. Yeah. I'm looking forward to doing this once a month. Chris Ryan, tangentially speaking, and you're at Chris Ryan on Twitter. Chris Ryan, PhD. Chris Ryan, PhD. Joe Rogan, the Joe Rogan experience at Joe Rogan touring all the time. I'm going to start going out with him again. I stand up high. This weekend. I'm in Phoenix. I can't every show sold out. Going to the desert. Oh, that's right. He's going to leave a body in the desert. No,

I'm not. You're the one who said that. I'm just going out to the desert. Just loads. Not a body. Just come. These are savages I've let in my house. I'm sorry. I disappoint again. Thanks, you guys. Thank you. I'm so happy we're friends. I'm happy we're friends as well. Definitely. Thanks for listening, you guys. That was Joe Rogan and Chris Ryan. If you like the podcast, give us a nice rating on iTunes. Won't you? Bye. You're going to love this house, Sergeant Riley. Just look at these high ceilings. The upstairs is even better. You can read the Constitution from your window. Upstairs? I don't see any stairs. Just strap on this harness and climb right up. Up this rock climbing wall.

There's no field manual for finding the right home. But when you do, USAA homeowner's insurance can help protect it the right way. Like saving up to 15% with our claims-free discount if you haven't filed the claim in five years, even if you've been with another provider. Learn more today at usaa.com slash insure my home. Discounts vary by location. It may not be available in all states. Restrictions apply. Membership eligibility and product restrictions apply and are subject to change. USAA means United Services Automobile Association and its affiliate, San Antonio, Texas. Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. You can get Dirty Angel anywhere you get your music. Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. New album and tour date coming this summer.