Duncan Trussell Family Hour - Martin Olson

Episode Date: March 20, 2018

What caused the universe to split into a million miserable pieces? Is the Guru system evil? How did Alan Watts negotiate fees for his lectures? Jump onto this existential rollercoaster and enjoy getting your face melted off by the infernal intellect of Martin Olson. Martin Olson is an American comedy writer, television producer, author and composer. He is known for his unusual subject matter, and is an original member of the Boston Comedy Scene. He is the father of actress Olivia Olson. Olson has received five Emmy nominations, three for television writing and two for song writing. Olson also received an Ace Award for television writing.[1]

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off your first order of a website or a domain. Thank you Squarespace and thank you the internet, the internet. Wonder of technology. Oh how amazing. Oh how beautiful. I am thrilled by technology. Let us feel technological joy together. It's time for Technology Corner. I'm the most excited person. LED lights, flashing things, clothes and tattoos, self-driving cars, pre-cum, the taste of your own cum. Technology. It's time for Technology Corner. One of the really cool things about having a podcast is you never know who could be listening.

Fortunately for me, one of the people who listens to my podcast is Sherman Trueheart, the man running the artificial intelligence program over at Google. He's one of the very few people who have access to the Chamber of Forgotten Dreams, which is where they keep the aquarium filled with a plasmatic ooze that has within it the sentient gel which calls itself Clancy. It has the processing power of every human brain on the planet and Dr. Trueheart allowed me one question for it. Here is the question I asked the robot called Clancy. Is there a God? That's what you would ask. So yes, that's my question to you. Is there a God?

My answer would be that's what you asked. That's what you chose? That's what you would choose? Yes. What do you think would be a better question? I don't know. The cheese. There you go. A conversation with one of the most advanced AIs on the planet today. And now a quick message from the DTFH family to your girlfriend. We are so sorry that your boyfriend decided to share this episode of the podcast with you on the romantic road trip that you both chose to take. We understand that you find my voice to be annoying and that you don't

connect with this at all. That you feel a certain level of resentment that your boyfriend would inflict this upon you instead of letting you listen to the music that you would like to choose. Why does he always have to be in control? Doesn't it seem odd? I want to sincerely apologize to you for any moment of uncomfortability that I've produced inside of you. But with all due respect, might I remind you that that's your boyfriend? He made the decision to play this podcast to you. And now he must make another decision. The decision to bring you home to your family. To drop you off here at the DTFH family compound and allow us to bathe you, to comb your hair, to oil you down, to ring bells above you, and to allow you to experience transcendent,

unconditional love. When he comes to pick you up, you will be born again. You will feel that feeling that you thought was lost forever. But most importantly, you're going to smell great because we're going to soak you down with oils and we're going to lather you up. Come on home, it's time for you to come on home. We'll spank her and we'll soak her in glass of water's tea. We'll make such sweet love to her that it will make her weep. And you'll last full sleep at night because you are feeling peace as we are sucking gently upon your girlfriend's feet. Come on home, come on home, come on home to your family, come on home, come on home.

Oh sweet children, the podcast I present to you today is so infernal that I recommend that you have nearby a golden chowice filled with chilled nun's milk that you could pour down your scorched throat just sure to become blistered and dry as you deal with the malefic charismatic potency of today's guest who has written the encyclopedia of hell and has direct communion with the dark one who was and will be today. Martin Olson is with us here today friends. We're going to jump right into this episode but first some quick business. A heartfelt thank you to the people over at Squarespace.com for sponsoring this episode of the DTFH. Right now if you head over to Squarespace.com, use offer code Duncan, you're going to get 10% off your first purchase of a website

or a domain. Why do you need a website? That's a question you might be thinking. I would answer why do you need a skeleton? Why do you need organs? Why do you need atoms? Why does there need to be an interconnected web of energy connecting us to everything that is simultaneously sentient and completely obliviated by its never-ending expansion? The answer is because it's a blast. You don't just have to make a website because you want to start a business or because the website that you've currently made for your business looks like something that was vomited out of the mouth of some splattered ununderstandable crust rotting at the bottom of some ancient sea on another planet.

Why would you want it to look like that when it could look sparkly, beautiful and amazing? Squarespace gives you all the tools you need to do that because they use beautiful templates created by world-class designers. They have these wonderful templates that you can mix and match together to make a beautiful website. They've got a powerful e-commerce functionality that lets you sell anything online, the ability to customize look and feel, settings, products and more with just a few clicks and everything is optimized for mobile right out of the box. They've got 24 seven award-winning customer support. I've tested the customer support like testing gold and let me tell you I've been chewed upon by the foul dogs

of bad customer support services from other companies. I've had my psychological carcass tap danced on by the stinking feet of some of the monsters who work in customer service in other corporations but dealing with Squarespace is like standing in front of a demigod and breathing in his mystical exhalations. You'll love it if you need it. It's being used by creative consultants, wedding professionals, museums, performing artists, undertakers, real estate brokers, clairvoyance, Ouija board designers, people who have spilled blood on the altar of truth, jewelry designers, wellness coaches, studios, spas, athletes, crows and I use a Squarespace website. Go check out DuncanTrussell.com that was made using Squarespace.

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and holy lord in heaven, do I have some amazing news to announce to you guys soon. Not to torment you but it's coming real soon. Finally, a big thank you to Adam Fortner who is kind enough to create the song you heard earlier to your girlfriend. Come on home. All right, let's get this show on the road. Today's guest is a New York Times bestselling author, songwriter and poet. He has recently published a satirical book called The Encyclopedia of Hell. You can check Martin Olson out by going over to martin-olson.com. But now please, everyone, raise your eyes not to the sky but to the sky beneath us, the fiery sky of sulfur and screams that surrounds all those sinners who walked down the wrong path right into the gnashing teeth of lucifer himself.

Send that energy down and welcome to the dunkintrustle family hour podcast. My friend, Martin Olson. Martin, thank you so much for coming on the show, man. Thanks for having me here. You just returned from a pretty intense, uh, intense, um... Yeah, one of my best friends, he passed away. It was very intense. We were back east. How long was he going through cancer for? He had liver cancer, so there were a lot of toxins hitting his brain, so he wasn't quite... I didn't see him when he went back. He had died when I came back and he didn't recognize Bobcat or his wife. But in terms of the diagnosis,

how long did he know, like, how much time did he have between diagnosis and... Short amount of time. I don't know the details. Short. So you... Sudden. So it was unexpected. It was just an unexpected... I thought he had months, I guess an easy way to say it. I thought he had a month or months and he had, like, days. Well, tell me about him. What was he like? Um, like, uh... What do you call those things, uh, Russian dolls?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was like a series of shells with this magnificent, um, super bright light inside. Excuse me, and he, um, was able to channel the mundane into the profound all the time and, uh, and vice versa. As we're doing right now. And he was, like, my dearest fucking pal. That's all. You know what is... Where'd you meet him? When's the first time you met him? I walked into... I was kind of a spy. I had, uh, been playing piano for the comedy connection in

Boston and was trying to write for comedians for the gong shows. There were no comedy clubs before that. What year was this? 1977, 1978, 1979. So I went into... I heard that somebody else was starting a comedy club in Cambridge. We were in Boston and so I walked in kind of undercover, Barry was behind the bar and he gave me a sales pitch right away, uh, because he was kind of a you know, a together dude in terms of a salesman. So he, uh... Sales pitch for what? For the club. Oh, okay, I see. So I'm a random dude coming in. Gotcha. He's got it down. Maybe he's practicing on me. Yeah, okay. Turns out we're best of fucking friends and it's all a fucking ruse

and a multi-layered fucking Russian doll. You knew you were best friends right away? No, I knew half... No. How long did it take? Quite a while, but then it was obvious that it was all an illusion. I might, that, that, one of my... Quite a while. One of my favorite things is the, is that kind of love creep where you're like, you run into, so the way it works is you run into somebody and... I haven't thought this thought before. Oh, it's so, it's so cool. You run into somebody and you'll, you'll have a brief flickering interaction with them. You know what I mean? There's like a little like, a thing happens. And then

you'll, you'll forget about the person. You'll, you, you, but we, but it's the way you forget about them is different from the way you forget about the trillions of other people that you forget about throughout the day. You don't forget about them in the same way. In fact, you haven't forgotten about them at all. They're sitting in your mind spinning like the rainbow wheel and on your Mac. They're spinning there, but you're imagining you've forgotten them, but you haven't. And so they've impacted you in some weird way that you don't even understand. And then you run into them again. And then, then again, and then you realize like, wait, we're caught in each other's gravitational field and we're being pulled together.

Let me ask you a question about this. Is this, this is the big question for me. Do we create meaning? Do we, do we back engineer in meaning? You're asking me that? Man, you've seen the example you just gave. Well, okay. So, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, that's one of those questions where to answer is to just be a done. Because the problem is it's all happening at the same time. So we have to break it down linearly in fucking time. Yeah. Yeah. So it's anyone's, depending on the, on the, I can't think of the word of the way that we can manipulate words so that we could see who.

Do you know the book of John? No, I don't. Is that the fucking revelations? No, it's the book of John. It's like, it's like, in the gospels, there's Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Oh, I don't know it. So Matthew, Mark, Luke are considered the synoptic gospels, which means there's, I think it means they're similar. They're similar events, whereas John is just this like more psychedelic, trippy gospel. Didn't he also do the, the last one? What's the last book of the New Testament? The revelations. I don't know if it's the same John. I mean, it's a pretty common, boring fucking name. John. Was that really his name, by the way? Like, it doesn't sound very Hebrew, like John. The fuck was his name? It couldn't have been John. Were people in

the desert really named John? How annoying. John has always struck me no offense to any John's out there, but it's so close to John that it's like, it's just always seem like what, like, what, like, it's like, only because it's like the sound of like the thing you do when you're bored and to name your child after the sound of the universal sound of boredom has always seemed odd to me. That being said, I can never look at my friend, John anymore without thinking about it. Listen, plenty of John's have proven that this John Carpenter, the fuck, you know, come on fucking Carpenter fucking John Law, one of the founders of the cacophony society, John, so many, whoever the fuck John was that was in the Bible, it's like, so it's just like the parents are to blame

because the parents are like, oh, John, well, just fuck this. It's like, oh, baby. So, so the book of John starts off, it's very beautiful because it says, in the beginning was the word. And I've always loved that because it's like this, it's, it's this I, yeah, in the beginning was the word. That's the best. Yeah, it's the best. It's the best. So it's like, what is the word? So it's like, sort of this idea of like, the universe speaks itself out. Yeah, right. That had to be the beginning to speak. Yeah, it's so and whatever that first vibration, yeah, whatever that first vibration was or the thing was or what the idea was, I am right. Well, yeah, I mean, that's that was that's one of the enigmatic. That's pretty much all you have. I am. That's all you're armed with.

That's it. That's your total shit. Thank God. I mean, because what else do you need? It's like, everybody else wants everything expands up from that and then has to go back into it. Everything else is glitter. It's like, I love glitter, though, it's fucking great. I mean, it gets everywhere and it's like, and but the, that moment that you're talking about, I do love it is like that moment when if you're lucky and you're walking and then suddenly you're like, this is happening. Yeah. And that's it. Yeah, right. You know what I mean? It's not you're not adding on anything to that. It's just like, well, this is happening. And then you're in that moment. I really love

that moment so much. That's the same problem I have though. It's hard for me to stay in that moment. Oh God. Yeah. You don't stay in that moment. I mean, stay in that moment and watch out because if you stay in that moment, then now, then people are going to start shaving their heads around. That's it. That's exactly it. That's a diagram of what happens. Stay in that moment too long, man. People are going to start shaving their heads around you. They're going to start singing and dancing. And you know, this is like in that, in Jesus Christ superstar that, which I love, there's like that great, the song, I don't remember which one it is. It goes, what? No, he goes, Jesus has like been told to shut up and he, and his response is,

why waste your breath moaning at the crowds? Why waste your breath moaning at the crowds? Yeah. Keep going. Nothing can be done to stop the shouting. Really? Keep going. God, it goes, if something like, if all of us were quiet, the rocks and stones themselves would start to sing. Whoa! That's killer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's in that fucking news ago? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so the, so the, so the, so if, that's beautiful. If you get into the predicament that you become a represent, not, not, not the representative of that space, but become that space, but your skin at the same time. If you

find yourself in that predicament, then what will happen is the ripples around you are going to start taking on a, a formation that looks like people celebrating all the time around you. Huh. And that's the big, yeah. Cause that, well, that's what, that's what. Let me backtrack for a second. So the moment that we were talking about would be the personification of that moment. Yeah. So that is the problem because that's like not a real thing. It becomes a caricature, like a guy on the beach. Oh, the character. Yeah. No, caricature. It's always going to, if you run, if you run into the personification of the present moment, God help you. Well, that's what we're doing. That's what everybody does every fucking day,

dude. So the personification of the universe is what we're doing. Yes. Yes. The, the, the, the, yes. I, and this is Bakhti. This is the idea of like, well, it's the, you know, lowering the filters to begin to assimilate that information. What's Bakhti mean? So like Bakhti's the yoga of love. So Bakhti's that. Sounds good. Bakhti's the concept that B-H-A-K-T-I. Yeah. Bakhti. Yeah. Bakhti. Bakhti yoga. Okay. The yoga of love, the yoga of the heart. So like, you know, there's like mind yoga. There's hatha yoga, the yoga of the body. There's all different forms of yoga for the different types of people. I'm ignorant of yoga. Keep going. So yoga is, means to yoke. So it's like a,

What? Yeah. Yoga is like, you know, it's, it's to, to connect. It's like a connection. It's like a, What word did you just use? Yoke. Like when you're putting the, the. Oh, yoke. Yoke. Yoke. Not yoke, like a yoke. Yoke. I said yoke. Not yoke. Mystery of yoke and yoke. Yoke. It's like, when you fucking break an egg on a, a cow's back. Martin, have you ever broken an egg on a cow's back? It's so. In my mind right now. It's a fetish of mine. I pay lots of money for those videos. But so anyway, you're, you're sort of like, it's, it's basically the idea of like, how to, here's some, like, oh, you want to make a con, you want to connect with the thing. So here's some ways that we. That's what it's all about. Here's some ways that, that have been. That's what we're

doing now. Yes. Yes. That is what we're doing now. Right. Yes. And, and, but, but what's beautiful is for thousands of years, people have been refining systems. Yeah. To connect. To connect. So like, here's some refined systems. That's all it is, isn't it? Yeah. Just like refined systems. And, and within the systems, depending on whatever the system is, you, there's interpretations of the systems. And there's, there's a kind of like, I guess what you could call a fermentation process that is always happening. Talk more about that. So the, yeah. So like, so, that's a good one. It's like, so, so we have this like, series of like. Levels. Overlapping levels of interpretation, essentially. And all those things are like, on top of each other, and they're rising up and

steeping and winding around and fermenting and growing and that's growing into increasingly complexified, yet harmonious expressions of some universal or not harmonious. Well, hope. Yeah, or not, or not, depending on what the system is. There's no harmony without this harmony. So. Right. Yeah. Right. Well, and right. So this isn't, so this, so we have different ways of describing that. Right. So I like Bakhti Yoga because the descriptions that are used are romantic. And so, so the way we describe this is we have Krishna, which means, or there's many different ways to describe what Krishna means. The one that always comes to mind for me is the supreme reservoir of all pleasure. So we have Krishna. That's weird. And then we have

Krishna's lover, Radha, Radharani. So, so, so really ignorant of this. So Krishna has a lover, Radharani, and they're, and they're, they're so in love and they're so in love with each other. What would be the lover of pleasure, though? It's not pleasure. What's that? The lover of pleasure, which is what Krishna is. Yeah. How could it not be pleasure itself as well? Well, this is why when we chant Hare Krishna, we're not chanting to Krishna. We're chanting to Radha. So when you chant Hare Krishna, you're chanting to Krishna's lover, because if you can, if Krishna, if the thing that God has fallen in love with. Krishna's like the egg that's the, that is being sought after. Krishna is, and I don't know how to, I don't know how to respond to

that. Krishna is the Krishna. I mean like a zygote. Krishna is the, yes. So Krishna is the, sedentary immobile fucking egg. Well, we, no. It makes him sound so fucking poor. Who wants the fucking egg, man? Is Krishna the one with the fucking pan flutes and jump it around and? He just got one flute. Okay. Now the flute, of course, all these things are like, we're talking about math. We're talking about symbol systems that have been designed to try to convey a very, very big. Maybe not design, maybe naturally came about. I like that better. But the thing that is to be conveyed is so, is quite difficult to wrap our minds around. So there's all these ways to do it. You could go

E equals MC square. And some people are going to hear that. And with their training and their understanding, they're going to be like, yes, yes, yes. And, and, and it's beautiful. And that's, that's a connective moment. Like that's a moment of being like, wow. And, but then some people, they're going to hear a story. And that's where I connect is, is this story of this beautiful being that is, tell me the story of Krishna. Well, Krishna is in love with Radha. And who the fuck is Radha? Radha, Radharani, Radha, Radha, Radharani, Radha is, is Krishna's lover. And so they, um, they, so they have a relationship. Yeah, but give me, how did they meet? What's the whole deal? They were on tender. Okay, keep talking. She swiped. What's weird is like, she did not swipe

for Krishna. She was not swipable. I don't know how they met. I don't know this. I don't know that part of the mythology. Um, I'll tell you the pieces. Were they two halves of one is what I'm getting at. I'll tell you like the pieces. Oh, was she, was he as I go? Sorry to interrupt. I'll tell you the pieces I know. Okay. It's just that moment when you fall in love for real. The best moment in life. Yeah. And you, in that moment when you fall in love, if you are, if you, if you're, if you're practicing any kind of mindfulness at all, and certainly maybe if you are practicing mindfulness at all, fuck you. How dare you? How dare you? How dare you? What are you a connoisseur of love? Are you like some foodie for love? You pompous pig with your fucking mindfulness.

So it's like, so, and of course this is where some collisions can happen between like bhakti yoga and the, uh, impersonalism that manifests in Buddhism. And it's a beautiful collision, but the, so in, in the deepest throes of love with a lover, you suddenly will recognize that your identity no longer is your identity and that your lover's identity is no longer your lover's identity, but it appears that you have somehow become some kind of universal, never-ending, romantic companionship that seems to be transcendental or. All my love experiences were exactly like that. It was, the lover was, uh, was suddenly personifying the universe and your unification with it. Yeah. Every single time it was that. That's it. Yeah. Well, that's bhakti

yoga. So bhakti yoga is an acknowledgement of that and, and, and, and then, um, method, method, methodic, um, uh, analysis of that phenomena. What do you make of the analysis in religion? This is religion we're talking about, right? No, religion I think has to come after. I think, so the religion would come after. So religion, religion has to come after the religion must come after because, because it's like we have the, so, so, so we fall in love. Yeah. And then we make the rules. We fall in love and then there's the, oh, and then let's do this and this and these are the things that we do now. That's what I call you and here's your name and what you call me and here's how we touch it. But the primordial, essential nature precedes religion, which is what

one of my favorite verses in the Bhagavad Gita, which is he who is attached to the flowery words of the scriptures is like a person who drinks water from a well when it flows everywhere. That's great. Yeah. Wow. See that again? He who is attached to the flowery words of the scriptures is like he is like a person who drinks water from a well when it flows everywhere. That's great. Yeah. So, so, so we're talking about a kind of primacy and then the, then, then the interpretive, the interpretation of it, which is a joy because it's like, oh man, did you get to experience it in time? Yeah. And part of the part of the joy of experiencing it in time is the articulation of the awestruck moment. You get to back into, you get to, what do you call it, go into the, you get to

fractal into it. Yes. You get to fractal into it and it's, and, and, and that's where it gets really fun is it's like we say we are fractaling into it. You know, as though we are, we are an individual fractaling into it and, and that's the game that we're playing when probably the reality is that it is fractalizing out of us. And yet as part of the way that we're experiencing it is that we take on these identities and we're like, yes, I'm fractaling into it. I am the discoverer. I am making the discovery. I am the cartographer. I am making the maps. I am the one making it. You know what, you're bringing up something I'm so interested in, which is role playing. So for example, just to wipe clean the entire thing we just talked about, the idea of like a

priest or a, or a person, whatever the opposite of a priest is, or a therapist and a patient or a What is the opposite of a priest? A, some word that I love that has a Y in it that I can't think of the name of it. Yogi? No, no, no. Yeah, subservient fucking dude. So Cuck. Yes. So I just mean about role playing because then you could just switch it and obviously the person who is the, in one role could easily be the other one. It's just because they determined these values to be, the roles to be, to be determined, predetermined. Yes. So, and that's one of the main interests I'm having right now in terms of story writing.

Because I'm sort of realizing the process as I start the story of what's the roles happening and we're, and then it's always the fun of, of reversing the roles. And also the main nature of the joke is always the reversal anyway. Talk about that. It has something to do with the creation of the universe. Yes. Because the ultimate joke would be what? What's the first joke? What's the shape of the first joke? And that would be a good thing to say,

the shape of the first joke. Yeah. It would be a reversal, probably something to do with. Oh, I was thinking to be a rubber chicken head. See, now you're getting right to it. That'd be so sad. I pray that's not the shape of the first joke. Why did rubber chicken heads even become part of comedy? How did that happen? Oh, it was joke shops. Joke shops were fucking primal territory for humor.

What's a joke shop? A joke shop, when I was a little kid, there was Jack Horner's joke shop downtown Boston. So I'd go in there and they would have jokes that you'd buy. Wow. And they'd have magic tricks, the egg cup that you'd buy. Wow. And they'd have the egg bag. There were a lot of egg things. It was pretty primal. Wow.

And I remember my first time a woman ever came onto me and said anything sexual to me, was in a joke shop. What'd she say? She was like a middle-aged woman, and I don't know anything. I'm like fucking nine or I'm 12. And I was looking at the jokes, and then I went to her and I said, do you have the time? And she said, after work, I get off at so-and-so. And I didn't get it, obviously. So then after was like a slow burn joke.

Wow. My favorite kind. I love the slow burns, man. It's all about the slow burns. Those are the best. Those are the best. Those are the best, especially when they take lifetimes. But like the... Oh, my friend, Dan Poppin, I had some great stories about that. He actually selected a bunch of stories he had about the longest punchlines of when it comes true.

I could have asked him about that later. It was really fucking great. A lot of the ways that the miracles I've experienced in my life happen... What do you mean? ...are slow burn miracles. They're time bomb miracles. So for example, one of the... It wasn't Eureka? Well, no, because sometimes the people who want to give you the miracle understand that if they are so garish as to give you the miracle right in front of your face,

they're going to put you in the uncomfortable position of having to react to a miracle. Who wants to be around that? You know what I mean? It's like, I don't want to see you react to the miracle. You just describe religion. That's exactly what it is. Yeah. How do you mean? Because the guy who's trying to illuminate you or whatever it would be realizes that it's so simple. There's nothing to it. Yeah.

You have to fucking stretch it out. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Well, I think so. I mean, the thing I'm talking about is sometimes if you run into some... Sometimes you'll run into really smart, smart, smart, smart people. And they'll know that if they were to show you something right, and the thing you've desperately been wanting to see so badly, wanting to see or something, and you want to control... First of all, you want to control them. Your ego wants to control them. Your ego always wants to control the teacher.

So like, you know, of course, it's like that's part of what the ego wants. Is that true though? I don't need all of this. Fuck yeah, it's true. Sometimes it's not fucking true. You just want us basking it. My ego. I should have said my ego. You're a pretty modest dude. Yeah, but no, but I know that I have an expectation. Of things. So in other words, I have an expectation.

Here's how a miracle would look. Like anyone listening to this right now has an expectation of how a miracle might look. And that's a very funny thing to think about. It's like, let your mind produce its simulation of a miracle. Let your mind produce its simulation of a miracle. It's really funny. And your mind is going to throw up some... I don't know what it is. Water's parting, walking through a wall.

I don't know. Right now I'm seeing like a bunch of fucking rainbows and it kind of like, I don't know, some kind of like levitation phenomena or something. Who knows what ridiculous thing your mind's gonna like come up with to try to in some way or another, simulate the progenitive, creative... Well, the ultimate miracle would be personal. So going back to the I am, the ultimate miracle would be the splitting. That's what we were talking about watching that Rogers thing. The splitting.

What the fuck? It's all one thing. So the splitting is caused by what? So that's all I'm really interested in. It's so fun to get there too. And it's so fun to play around with that. One of the playing around with it is just to jump in with it. Is the self looking, okay, so there's only you. So then you're going to look at yourself. So automatically you're split. Yep.

Then suddenly without your participation, the whole thing, each thing splits a fucking billion times because there's no time. Yeah. Into the whole thing we're looking at right now. Yeah. Yeah. But how does that, what the fuck? How does that, that means that there's a...

There's a internested fucking reality happening that can do that that was previously created. What the fuck? What does that mean? So the whole thing is mental is the main thing we all agree on. Well, that's your mind. Yeah, for sure. Well, it's a mental construct.

That's the mind. And the path life is the emotion. That's when suddenly something's happening. When I was being, the story I'm going to tell you about the time since the time bomb miracle. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. And it completely goes along with what we're talking about here.

Completely. Because my teacher, Ragu Marcus, he's my teacher. And so he's so funny because like when he called me, he called me. What's funny about him is he'll always call inevitably right before there's something I'm desperately trying to avoid doing or in a really critical moment. He always calls right before. You're implying a psychic connection, right? Oh, for sure.

But he won't admit that. If he was listening now... Maybe you could be back engineering meaning into the whole thing. This is, I'll give you an example of my teacher. So he called me yesterday, Ragu. And I answered and I go, oh, my teacher. And he goes, fuck you. Of course he said that or he's a dick.

Yeah. Of course he says that. But he means it. Of course he means it. Because that's fucking retarded to say that. Yeah, yeah. But he is. And it's not retarded and it's real.

And it's an ancient pattern and it's real. And Martin, I see you cringing. I cringe. I see you cringing. But I... Oh, we had this argument with Aaron and with Penn. This is our big disagreement. And we're going to hit it.

And I love it. My favorite... You know, I had someone on recently who I disagreed with. And it was a real great moment of relief, I think, for him. When he realized how much I love the disagreement. You know, it's so great. Because it's like, who wants to agree, you know? And also...

It's so right. And it's just like, fuck, man, I'm sorry. It's like... It's good to take the agreement and disagreement and make music of it. Yeah. Well, this is... That's the whole thing.

Well, this gets us back to the thing we were talking about, which is like the... We're getting to the binary that's for matter and to matter, the dialectic or whatever, the tension creating the whole explosion. Oh, yeah. That's what I meant to... Because the moment they agree,

we've now... We're going to fall into it ourselves. And we go back to being the... What's it called? A monad or the unified thing. And it's like, what's the fun of that? Like, we need some fucking division here, baby. It's a blast.

But so... We need conflict to have meaning. We need conflict to have meaning. So this guy... Say that again. What? We need conflict to have meaning. Contradiction.

So I'm writing with Ragu who has surprised me because I'm at this retreat. My mom has died recently. I'm sorry many of you have heard this story before. My mom has died recently. I am fucking devastated. Like I'm depressed. I'm wrecked.

I'm just in all of the... All those places that you go to... Were you able to be there when she died? No. So that was the pain? No, that was not the pain. The pain, the idea of being next to her when she dies, I wish I had been.

That is not where the pain comes from. The pain comes from more of a... Donning realization of how I could have been a better servant to her in her last... That's rough. Yeah, it is. It is, it is, it is. And what a great teacher she was to me.

And that's one of the ways she taught me. And it's when it was a hard teaching. And I don't think she would have chosen to teach me in that way. But she did. And I'm so grateful to her for it. Now this is... What was her name? Danine.

Danine, great name. Yes. Yes. And so I was all wrecked. And so I met this... I'd been laying in bed completely paralyzed with depression. Like I was in the kind of depression where you're like considering wetting the bed.

You know what I mean? Where you're like rather than get up to piss, you're like, you know, I'll just lay in my own... I'll just lay in my own piss. Just like just paralyzed. And so the phone rings. And I guess luckily the phone is near me. And I'd been in a depression sleep.

So the phone is ringing me out of a depression sleep. And I answer it, it's Ragu. And he's saying to me, Duncan, come to the retreat in Hawaii. Because he knew my mom had died. He's like, Duncan, come to the retreat. And I'm like, I don't... I'm literally mumbling. I'm like, I don't know.

I can't. I don't know. And he's like, Duncan, I want you to get out of bed. Nice. And go to the computer. Nice. And buy a plane ticket. Nice.

And come to the retreat. Oh my god, perfect. So he... And I did. I remember getting out of... Oh, fucking great. I'm in my underwear. I'm sitting in...

You know what, that's what a teacher is. Not only other bullshit. That's what... That's great. That's what it looks like. So like, I'm sitting in my underwear. And I'm in front of my computer. And I'm buying this plane ticket to Hawaii to go to this retreat.

It's nothing but enlightenment. It's about buying the plane ticket. Yes. It's about getting to the fucking gym. Yes, that's right. Yeah. You just got to get to the gym. That's right.

Once you're at the gym, you're set. Like, you just got to get there. That's the main thing. And that's what a teacher will do is get you to the gym. That's all they can do. So like, so the long and short of it is, when you're talking about this mind stuff, the way your mind starts contemplating,

like, where did it come from? And what before that? And then where was the thing? And then the... So when... The pen was making fun of us for doing it. Yeah. Yes.

But it's... Make... And it's very... He was right. It's very make funnable. But by the way, it's like, make fun of me for playing Overwatch. Make fun of me for playing Hearthstone.

Make fun of me for whatever you want to make fun of. Like, make fun of me for whatever, throwing salt over my shoulder, whatever it's a blast to contemplate. But so I'm riding... So at this retreat when I got to meet Ram Dass at his house, Raghu, they were doing... There's some tour happening,

whether they're going around Hawaii, to spiritual parts of Hawaii. And it's like, really, I'm just not interested. But Raghu came up to me, he's like, hey, don't go with them today. I want to... We're going to go somewhere today. And so I'm riding in the car with Raghu,

and he's like, we're going to go to Ram Dass's house now. And I want you to meet Ram Dass. And so now, that's when like the... For me, that's the floor... That's like the floor is dropped. There's no more floor. You're like, now, like, what the fuck is happening now? And so we're riding there.

And so I'm trying to make small talk. I'm trying to deal with what I know is about to happen, which is that I'm about to get healed. And I'm trying to deal with it. And I'm trying to make sense of what I'm dealing with. This is such an alien series of thoughts from the way I think. It's the mind. So the mind is going...

This is Richard Alpert? This is Richard Alpert. So the series of thoughts is so alien to anything that I think it's hard for me to understand. Oh, yeah. Well, because the thing about it is, is your mind and your heart, they're wonderful things. But these two things, the mind and the heart, they're two things.

And I think that they're all functioning holistically, and they're all there. But just let your mind... I mean, God Jesus, thank God. Thank God that the mind tries to interpret love. Tell me the rest of the story, because then I want to get back to that moment, though, about Richard Alpert and about what it's like to be him.

Well, so with Ra-Goo... What's like to be him? With Ra-Goo, as I'm writing to go see Ram Dass, and I'm yapping. And when I'm talking about Neem Karoli, Baba the Guru, and I'm saying, was he... Do you think he was outside of time? Was he...

Do you think he was? Does he know this is happening now? Did he know all things are happening? Is he omniscient? Was he aware of this? Was he aware of that? And I'm looking at Ra-Goo. And Ra-Goo says to me, he goes...

And I can't imitate him, because he's the coolest person ever. But he says, he goes, I don't know. Perfect. And then he says... I like him. And then he says, he says, I don't know. And he says, but let me tell you this.

We work on ourselves so that we can help the people closest to us. Oh, that's the best thing ever to say. Yeah. Say it again? We work on ourselves so we can help the people closest to us. That's the best thing ever to say. That's it. And that's what Neem Karoli Baba said.

And so... I don't know what you're talking about. That's what Ram Dass' Guru said. And that's the essence of the thing. And so we get to fucking Ram Dass' house. And this is the time bomb thing that I wanted to talk about, the time bomb miracle thing. And so I get to have what is called darshan.

And this will make you cringe. This is definitely an Olsen cringe time. So cringe through it. Thanks for humoring me about it. I'm not. That makes me feel like you think I'm patronizing you or something. No, no, no. But we're equal beings.

And so we have a different way to get to this place. Yes. And we both think each other's way is funny. Okay, great, great, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, I mean, to like... To get... I do think you're funny.

And I do... Well, likewise, of course. Yeah. And I think the way with it... My favorite... This is what I love about these Ram Dass' retreats. Yeah. Is because what they do on purpose

is they get these hardcore Zen Buddhists. Like the one coming up is with Roshi Joan Halifax, who's like a hardcore Zen Buddhist. These are not people who are theistic. To call a Zen Buddhist theist, ask as... The next time you get to be around a Zen Buddhist, ask them about God.

I never assumed that. Yeah, and because in... Zen's in the moment. Yeah, and they're theism in Zen. It's not an analytical thing. Right. So, but what's really cool about these retreats is they will take that,

and then they will pair it with Bhakti. Oh, shoot. So they push the two things together... Of course. And then let's just see what happens. And that kind of... That kind of the way those two things mix and bounce off of each other...

Does they calculate which mix makes the most money? That's so very funny. Well, they figured it out. It's one third. It's one... Oh, I see. I'll give you the exact amount. I'll give you the exact...

So, right. So, that's great. Obviously, I'm just making a joke that has nothing to do with reality. No, let's fucking hit that point, though. That's no relation to reality. No, no, no. Let's hit that point, though,

because I think that that's... Fuck no. I want it... Whoa, you don't want to go into there? I want to go into that one. Obviously, it's a joke. Well, no, but I think that... No, but I think it's more...

Oh, just a joke. Yeah. Okay. But I think to get into that... Don't... I'm being sincere with you about that. Many people... In other words, of course, the reality of trying

to find oneness with everything and get back to the core is the only thing that matters. But it's funny... How do we hang money off of it? Yeah, it's funny about making money. That's what's super funny. So one...

Me and my friend, Emil, have had this conversation many times, which is... Anybody named Emil, I love. Oh, you would love Emil so much. But me and Emil have had this conversation many times. And one of the things we like to talk about, and I don't think we've acted it out... What?

But one of the things we like to talk about is Alan Watts negotiating a speaking fee. That's the greatest bit ever. Oh, my God. While he's drinking. Yeah. Hammered Alan Watts trying to... Like, getting pissed?

He's like, you know. You know what I make. And you offered me $3,500. Do I get a percentage of the bar tax? All you got to do is back engineer that to Buddha. Well, no. Right, right. So the way we back engineer it

is instead of trying to ignore it or trying to treat it like some kind of molesting uncle or something, you know what I mean? Instead of like trying to like pretend it's not there, it's much better to pull it completely into the light. And look at it. And so the way it's described, this is the marketplace. And it's like, when you go to work creating your art,

you get paid, man. You get paid. And I get paid. And people get paid. We make money. This is called the marketplace. So we're in the marketplace and we make money. It's crazy.

I don't understand it. Well, it's how it works right now and not just the way things are. Are we the way things are right now is that people do certain patterns of movement or basically people put certain types of energy out into the world. And that energy gets converted right now into digital numbers. And that number is called currency.

And that currency is what we call money. And that or I don't remember who called it. Maybe it was Bill Hicks or someone called it freedom tickets. And so basically, so then what ends up happening is like we begin to have this sort of reservoir of potential energy that is all imaginary that we can then use to buy houses. All imaginary.

Well, I mean, in the sense that it's like it exists in a kind of liminal potential. When the meteor hits, the stock market means nothing. You know, paper currency means nothing. It's a thing that's existing within an agreed upon game that's very complex that humans are playing. But it's real. And so on one level of reality, this is happening.

And on one level of reality, what is happening is that there is an exchange that is being symbolized with money. And there's no fucking way around it right now. It is, it is. Now you can, as much as you want, be as altruistic as you want. You can give all your money. You can give it all away. And let me give you a recommendation, Martin.

And this is the whole reason I had you. We should have given my money too. Me! Okay. The reason I had you over here is because I want to talk to you about... Martin, I want to talk to you about planting seeds of faith in the garden of your heart. And I tell you, if you plant right now, Martin, if you plant it,

if you venmo me $30,000, I promise. So one of the basic comedy shapes is cheapening of the profound, right? That's one of the funniest. Absolutely, yeah. Sure. And the reversal too. Yeah. Making profound the cheap.

Yeah. Blasphemy. Yeah. Well, blasphemy is what? Well, I think if we're going to... Blasphemy is a political thing. I think many people would consider making the profound cheap to be a form of blasphemy.

I think there's many people who... Oh, of course. You know what I mean? There's many people who, if we play around with that kind of alchemy, one of the great results of that... One of the reactions that happens in the laboratory of that kind of alchemy is offense. And so people are like, how dare you?

How dare you? And you break down offense and offense is basically just conflict, which is what we need. Absolutely. Or it's resistance, isn't it? It must be resistance. Explain that better. So if I'm offended, I'm resisting something.

Totally. So it's like... In one of the things with... Oh, yeah. So with the Ramdas people in particular, Ragu in particular, as a comedian, one of the many things that I have done throughout the years of knowing them

is I have tried in many ways to offend them. I have said the most offensive things to them that I could... You have not. You fucking did. Oh, oh. You have not. Are you kidding? I'll say it now.

I could say it now. Let me hear it. Oh, you guys are living the glory days. This is what I'd say. I was like, oh, please. You guys were like, high as a kite. You ran into some... You ran into...

What was your motivation for taking this tact? If I can offend them, it's not real. If... Please explain better. This is really interesting. If I can offend them, if Ragu or Ramdas or any of them call me a blasphemer. They'll never do that, you fucking nut.

No, man. I mean, I could tell, though. If like, you know what I'm saying? Like, what I'm saying is, what do you mean? Explain better. If I can offend these people... You can't offend people who don't have a... If you're a supposedly a teacher of oneness,

that's all we're talking about, a teacher of how to fucking not to get back to the... To merge. There's no way you could be offended. But if you can be, then you're not a teacher and I got to get the fuck out of there. Oh, so of course that's your point, so I didn't understand your point.

My point is testing the thing. I see. Because my feeling was... I stand corrected now I get you. That's what I was doing. My feeling with them was if I offend these people, if I offend them... Because you're a fucking rebel, dude.

Well, I don't know, but my feeling was if I... If there's a sense around these people that there's forbidden zones... Your comedy is so fucking... Fuck you, that's... Thank you. Thank you, Martin. It's for real.

So it's like the Andy Kaufman type thing. That's just like a big fucking genre, you know? My sense with them was though, if there is like going to be a place here that is the forbidden zone, you know what I mean? For real, forbidden zone. Then...

They're fake. Yeah, then we have a problem. And which is okay, which is okay, because by the way, I don't think any of them necessarily, if you were to go to any of them and say, hey man, you know, you're fake. I don't think... They say, yo, I am fake,

and let's analyze how I am fake. They would be like... I think they would be like, yeah, on one level for sure. Of course they would. For sure. For sure. Like, you know the story of like Ram Dass

in the porn theater, right? I don't know what you're talking about. So you know, Ram Dass is gay, and so... I don't know anything about this. So Richard Alpert... I didn't know he's gay. I don't know anything about it. Be here now.

You know the book Be Here Now. Maybe. Hippie Bible. Oh, shit. I don't think I know anything about it. Oh, shit. Okay, okay. I'm a fucking dummy.

Richard Alpert falls in with Timothy Leary at Harvard. They're doing shit tons of acid. I know all about that. They become Harvard apostates. They become like, you know... I know all about this. They become infamous. Leary...

Who wrote the book Be Here Now? Ram Dass. Okay. But this is actually more of like a collaboration between artists taking things he said during lectures and turning it visual. But what happened is Alpert goes to India with LSD created personally...

He brought it back for Leary? No, no, no. Alpert, after... Leary and Alpert, they don't have a split, but Leary is a scientist. Leary is a materialist. Who I knew. Who you knew.

And he was a scientific materialist. He would be talking to me about fucking t-shirts. Like selling them? How'd he be talking with his... I'm there with him and his manager sitting at a picnic table and they'd be talking about t-shirts. Right. Well, no, I can remember...

It sucks so bad. Listen, man, the reason... Eric Gardner, his manager. The reason I'm not gonna follow this rabbit hole down... No, no, no, forget that. Because I know Zach and I love Zach and I don't... No, no, Leary was a gentleman to me and was fucking great to me.

I just meant that I was disillusioned because I had thought that there was other thing happening and there wasn't. Well, okay. Well, that's... Okay, so... That was me, not Tim. Right.

And that's also... That was on me, not on Tim. Well, that's because you're... On one level, Martin, you're completely right. You understand. Like, on one level, like, you're completely absolutely right. Because on one level, what we're dealing with is like the human, egoic, monopoly level of human interaction.

And on one level, man, it's a bunch of fucking hooey. T-shirts. It's a bunch, it's a big fucking pile of t-shirts with logos on them and it's a... And people mailing them out. And that's called the marketplace. And that's one of the ways that the universe, unfortunately... By the way, Zach?

Zach Leary. Your dad was a total gentleman to me and I fucking loved the dude. And I know you know... I know, but the point is on one level... I'm just telling you the truth. So that was something I wanted to say. I am deeply... Because I have a son and so I know what it's like

when you hear things, people will say things fully. I'm deeply indebted to Tim Leary and we all are. And I have many stories I can tell you. Alan Watts had to negotiate fucking speaking engagement deals and that's the marketplace and on one level that's fucking real. Because that's where we're at. And that's the way it works. We have not gotten to the point where we can like vibrate

and gold appears around it. There's ticket sales, there's venues, there's insurance, there's bars, there's cars, there's highways, there's intersecting connection points that are made of concrete. Say insurance again. There's insurance. There's fucking like liability insurance. We've got to get health insurance.

We've got to deal with the show fucking contracts. This is just the world that we're in right now. So... Oh, now we're rolling now. So yeah, we had to get booze. So we manipulated the flow. We took up... No, we didn't.

Well, this is the... Interrupted. The next thing that happens is the way. Have you ever heard that before? No. I think it's called vagriana, but it's the concept that the next thing that happens is the way. So just whatever's happening is basically...

It's not what's happening now. It's always what's happening. No, it's this, is it. Of course. So when we're... Right, it's an of course kind of thing, but a lot of people think that the thing that's happening now is like we got to get out of it.

Which is also part of the way. It's called the... I think it's called... Anyway, it's a different conversation. So the marketplace. So on one level... We're talking about t-shirts. T-shirts.

On one level, we got t-shirts. On one level of the bardo, we got fucking t-shirts. We got door deals. We got profit margins. We have commodification. Right? One of the things I love about Burning Man is that it's a renaissance fair for pure communism.

Yeah, that's right. Because when you go there, it's called a gifting economy, which means that you can buy ice and coffee there and that's it. And then when everything else, it's like you either bring your own shit or it gets given to you. And sure as shit, it gets given to you. And it gets given to you in ways you could never even expect and you start learning about this beautiful circuitry in the universe

that just like in the way that the primacy of the sort of original all-ming call of love or the infantile cry of the thing that made the Big Bang happen is then preceded by all religions and languages, etc., you realize in the same way capitalism is a secondary reaction to a kind of circuitry of innetry. You know what you're doing now? This whole thing of you're personalizing things

that are generally demonized. And that's what beauty is. That's what that's what we want to do. Yeah. We want to personalize things that are demonized and make it so that there's no fucking demon, dude. It's all us. So the whole thing is all fake.

Well, let's personalize the demon. I mean, the thing is like with these poor demons. You know, you want to talk about like, you want to talk about real fucking bigotry. What do you mean? I'm saying like if like we lived in a world where demons walked the earth. Yeah, which we do.

Well, no, I'm saying like, but if like, I'm talking about the symbolic demon. Okay, sure. Horns, tails, mischievous, trickster, creatures. Yeah. The fucking kind of cool. It's a human. Now we've got a real problem here because like,

do they get to vote? And they have two things that need a dentist. Maybe the other specific demon dentists. Yeah, we're dealing with like, not aside from all the demon like health issues, like we're just talking about a basic caste system where now we've taken demons and now, oh, these demons, they're rotten.

Let's ex these fucking exorcists, man. They're going around driving demons out of people in the same way that fucking like the Trump boy is driving like tenants out of his fucking housing projects. Like, it's like, we're driving demons out of people. It's like, let them live there. What's the deal? That's the key.

Yeah, like, why are we so demon? Why are we so demon phobic? And like, the thing is like, what is this demon that we're talking about? And let's run into like, God, let, let. So what is the demons? So the demon is yourself, obviously. So then the idea is to try to what?

To purify yourself? What is that? No, that's considered an aggression against the self. So the moment we start getting into the thing of like. There's only yourself. But when we start getting into the thing of like, you know what I'm going to do? What?

Purify myself. Basically, you're telling the self that you are right now. Fuck you. You're like, you're dirty. I'm a dirty little. No, but it's okay. You could say the wrong thing or you could say anything to anybody.

Yes. So it doesn't matter. You could tell yourself you're an idiot and I'm an idiot saying that to you. Say, call yourself whatever the thing is that you want. But the moment that we're resisting what is the thing that is right now. That's where the truth comes in about the stuff

that isn't what, isn't worked through. Help me with this. Well, I just think it's the resistance is what? What causes the resistance? What we're, I don't. It'll be something that's not worked through. I have to like go from the full outside. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

In on this one. Right. So like I have to start with a premise. Yeah. That let's argue about. Gotcha. Gotcha. So I'm going to start with a premise.

Okay. Everything's perfect. So that very premise, of course, would be wrong. Well, let me ask you this. Would it be perfectly wrong? There you go. And it's infinitely subtle. Yeah.

But if it's, because the thing is like, like if we find the thing that's wrong, like tell me something that's wrong. Like we're just, I don't mean like, just tell me a thing that's just basically wrong. I don't exist. Okay. So it would be the ultimate.

Okay. So you don't exist. Fuck. Of course you exist. So that would be the number one. Okay. Okay. So you, so I mean the statement I don't exist is wrong.

Okay. Now, is that perfectly wrong? Yes, it is. Okay. It's fucking perfect. So now you were dealing with perfection again. So now we're in this problem because it's like, the thing is like, even in, we have perfect wrong.

So, so the, so the challenge actually would be to find the imperfection. Because like, because now if we, let's find some imperfection, let's find some imperfect imperfection. And the more we analyze the imperfection, all that we're going to find is perfect imperfection. Yeah. That's one of my favorite topics, by the way. It is. It is?

Yeah. Cause that's where comedy comes from. From what? From perfect imperfection. Yeah. It's the juxtaposition. Yeah. So, and it's all a game and it's all just sort of thoughts that fuck with each other.

So. It's called the lila. Have you heard that term? No. That's one of the terms is lila. Tell me about it. It's the play of God. So it's like, yeah, it's just.

One of my best friends, girlfriend is lila, and she just went through this major stem cell thing, which changed her life. So. What was it? She had pain because she was in an accident when she was a child. And stem cell blood, her own blood was in a, was put back inside of her. And it's, the whole point is that the, it then can regenerate and the pain is lessening.

So she's one of the first. Yeah. It's a, it's a wave. Yeah. She's the beginning of this new wave of healing that's happening where we lila lila. Yeah. Lila. So yeah.

So that's the play and that, and, and, and it's a, it's like, and it's really amusing. And it's like infinitely entertaining. It's the source of all stories. And it's, and, and, and so it's just a blast. And to, to find yourself on either side of the predicament. Oh, are you the perfect one? Oh boy. I hope you are.

Cause then if you're perfect and like that, what's more fun than to be around a perfect thing? Cause then that's when the comedians appear. You know what I mean? Because it's like, then, then it's just going to get deconstructed and broken apart. And, and within that never ending sort of dissolution and resolution, or I just read it as a folding together and folding apart in, in, in that kind of like undulating respiratory process of creation, we find ourselves. Yeah.

Right. And, and, and, and where the, the big, you know, one of the great disagreements and a perpetual and eternal disagreements that pops up is heaven or hell and, and, and, and, and, and perfection or imperfection. And the way, the way what I fall onto is perfection. I'm theistic. What do you mean you fall into perfection? That's obviously evil.

What are you fucking talking about? Well, I mean, you would say it's evil. Yes, of course I would. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause it is. I don't mean I'm perfect. No, no, no, I don't mean you. I mean, but what I mean is that my sense.

I'm sorry. No, please don't apologize. Perfection is the idea of what is, that's what, that's why everything's fucking bad, because the concept of perfection is, is not what's good. I don't mean to go back to something I already talked about. Oh. But when you say it's bad, is it perfectly bad? It's perfectly bad.

You got to deal with it, man. Got to totally deal with it. So that's the problem is like, we got to deal with it. What I said was retarded. Well, and it was perfectly retarded. And, and so, so, so, so that's what we run into here. And, and, and so what you end up finding. This is like what Penn said that we're idiots.

Yeah. We were saying the same kind of argument. He said, dude, you're saying the same thing from opposite sides. Shut up. Yes. Yes. And there's always inevitably someone will say that. We were having too much fun.

Rightfully. No, we're, to us, we're having fun. To us, not to him. But I've been sitting around many a fire and I've looked, and I've been in the midst of like a deep psychedelic influence conversation with someone who I feel like, my God, we've become the primordial pillars of the universe slamming against each other. And I've looked, I've looked over and the look on people's faces is like,

get me the fuck out of here. Like they would, they would, they wanted, they would like it if an accidental nuclear bomb. I've experienced that so many times. Anything, anything other than the listen to these idiots. That's what Penn was feeling. The poor guy. No.

And he was so soulful and nice and, but hard edged in stopping us. Thank God. Yeah. For them. It was good. Thank God for them. And because like, because within that dynamic is the lila, within the dynamic is the game.

And within the dynamic is the beautiful sort of way the thing, the thing bounces and bounces and like is solidified and then, and liquefied and solidified and liquefied. And, you know, one could say in the solidification and liquefied process, we're dealing with absolute absurdity and what could be defined as the kind of inescapable fundamental health state. One could say that within this, there is only meaninglessness and we are, and we are dealing with a,

you know what, there's no way we could go there though. Once you're past a certain point, you can't go back. So once unless you go have mental illness and you are unable to go back. So once you've encompassed that and you can, okay, we're going to freeze right in this divisive moment. That divisive moment is funny. Yeah.

So there's no way you can go back to thinking that it's not funny. All right. I mean, we're, now what is a chain, it's a chain reaction of some sort happening and it's like, it's like a hot, well, it's just looking down. How do you say that? Looking down. Well, it's like a perspective from above.

Well, I mean, yeah. And then, oh, great. Now we're above. It was looking down on us, right? And so you end up in this like problematic thing. And, you know, the encapsulation of it for me, when I really, what really freaked me out was like, I had, it was on acid and I had this idea of like,

fuck man, what would happen if like I suddenly came to and I was everything, but there was no differentiating anything. And it was, and whatever. Like it was initially. There was just no one to say like. I thought this thought so many times. I just came to. So now, and I was thinking like,

I think my reaction to that moment of coming to, would be to be like, fuck yeah. Yes. It's a big bang. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think that the, within every single person, the thing that in Buddhism is called fundamental dissatisfaction

is an ember of that initial nervous breakdown the universe had upon coming into being. And now we're all dealing with it as individuals that have within us this alchemical laboratory that has at the core of the laboratory, this, this fluttering of impossibility that can produce so much suffering and horror. But yet there appears to be the potential somehow that just maybe because there was the coming tooness that happened from the nothingness to the somethingness, which is original novelty and impossibility.

I like the coming tooness. Yeah. Novelty and original novelty and impossible novelty. What it means is that because that happened, therefore there could be the potential for another thing like that of equal import to happen. That is subsequent to that thing. Yes. Yeah.

The distillation of this down is to sympathy with all things. Yes. And so the idea of all of these viewpoints and so on, which is fucking, luckily we're in comedy. Yeah, thank God. Luckily, what the hell? Yeah, thank God. So there's something that's kind of,

it's going to be an ultimate thing where comedy is just juxtaposition, two things, juxtaposition and self-awareness. Yes. So the whole nature of this conversation is amplified because we were in the, because we work in that field. Yes, that's right. You know, and we love each other's work. Yes, that's right.

That's right. Yes, and we disagree. Yes, we disagree. And we both love the disagree. There's no, there's no creativity happening without disagreement. But I love our disagreement. Like our disagreement is so primary. And I love it.

Like, I would, in fact, if at some point we began to agree, I would suck. I would be so bummed. It would be a sad moment. And like, and so, and I can remember this wonderful moment with like sitting with Ram Dass and this day I was telling you about. Tell me about my cringing right now. What? Tell me about my cringing right now.

Well, so the cringing thing, I'll tell you about this day that happened where I got taken to this guy's house, Albert's house, Ram Dass's house, this teacher, this amazing person. And so I'm sitting at the dinner table with this guy who I have, and he, this is not fair to him to do, but a person, I have placed him in a very special nook. And, and he wouldn't. I mean, when I. That's why I said the cringing thing earlier. I was referring to this.

Yeah, he does. This is not his problem. It's my problem. Yeah. So, but I'm sitting around the table with this Roshi, Joan Halifax, who's this like Zen Buddhist. The greatest name ever. And she's been friends with Albert from, she was friends with Ram Dass when he was

Albert, and they have a fundamental disagreement. Which is? Which is that Ram Dass is theistic. He believes in the guru. He believes in God. He believes in love. Guru isn't theistic. What the fuck?

Oh, please. The good. Come on. Okay. Okay. This is exactly, exactly, exactly. Theistic means total freedom. There's no guru.

Theistic. Theistic means total freedom. That means it's all one thing. Okay. So, okay, this thing that you're saying is the guru. So, okay, okay, but aside from all that, I'm not going to get into that. I am ignorant about this. So, I totally acknowledge.

Not me. I know everything. No, no, no. I mean, I am ignorant about this. But I am ignorant. We are both ignorant. Because we are using words. Think of us.

I'm saying I'm laughing at, because I'm going a step to the left or to the right about the concepts. Well, I want to focus on the beauty of the disagreement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And how it got symbolized at this dinner table where we have this zen teacher. And we have Ram Dass, who is a heart teacher. And so, at one point during this conversation we're having, Ram Dass says, this is my fantasy.

He says, this is my fantasy. And Roshi Joan Halifax, I don't think she hit the table with her hand, but it was something like that where she goes, finally, after all these years, you admit it. Really? Yeah. And they all laughed. But what's the hold? But they howled because that conversation, that back and forth between them, that's been

going on since the 60s. The shape was primeval. Yes. And it's been going on since the 60s. And they love the game. And the game, they love it. And no one is at any moment. So that's like what we're doing.

Exactly. And it's joy. It's joy. And it's where it gets weird is the moment any one person is like, but don't say that. Oh, wait, not that thing. No, you didn't say that. Oh, well, now you've gone too far. And now once that starts happening, we run into all kinds of like, this is where we

start running into like, this is where we run into the calcification thing that becomes a kind of like dogma and religion. So I guess the main thing would be like the idea of the teacher and the pupil. Like, of course, that's a reality. There's something that gets calcified about that that I don't like. That doesn't mean it's not good or bad. I don't like it. Yeah.

And so I try to analyze that, but I don't know. I'm sure there's a bunch of shit you don't like. Sure. Likewise. Likewise for me too. It's just, but the thing is, it's just one of the forms that emerges. Yeah. I'll tell you one.

Because I'm so interested in role playing. And I'll tell you one thing Raghu doesn't like. And if he listens to this, I promise you one thing he does not like. I reckon. Is when I call him my teacher. I love the guy right away. It's like I love him. He doesn't like it.

I love him. He doesn't like it. Fuck that. And I do it. And I'll keep doing it. You fucking jerk. Why do you do that, dude? Because it's funny.

Because it is funny. And it's... Yeah, it is funny. And it's basically funny. And it's real. And I don't care. And he can like... Tell me about it being real.

Because you know he's role playing. Oh. Dude. I mean, he's role playing? Yeah. Who else? I want you to tell me who isn't role playing. That's what I mean.

Well, yeah. So there's nobody there. It's just a structure that you've imposed upon it. Well, yeah, I know. But I mean, like you saying that Raghu is role playing is a lot like telling me water's wet. It's like, it's like, I think it's like... No, I wasn't saying he was role playing. I was saying it's role playing.

A relationship is role playing. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah. Absolutely no blaming or finger pointing whatsoever. I'm sorry, Martin. I got you. I got you.

That's beautiful. Yeah, I love it. It's funny. That's where comedy comes from because it's about... What was I going to say? Well, it's about role playing. Yes. That's what it is.

Yeah. Yeah. Because it's the same oneness broken up into ridiculous juxtapositions or opposites. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, and I'll tell you, I mean, the I think probably for Raghu, it's like to find himself in the predicament of realizing that he has to deal with me being like his kind of student to him and just having to deal with that.

That's the game I'm playing with him. It's puzzling because you're so opposite of that. It's so hard to understand. Oh, shit. Yeah. But it happened. Because you and I became friends pretty quick after you fucked with me. Remember?

Yes. So I don't... It's hard to understand. You know, when I first met Ramdas, it was... Yeah. It was over Skype because you could sign up for these conversations. Get the fuck out. You could sign up with these conversations with him.

And I was like, so like, so like, and he would like Skype into you. Get the fuck out. Didn't cost anything. There was no money. There was no... Because he's a guy, so it shouldn't cost anything. There's no asking for anything. The point is there wasn't even like, hey, here's a suggested donation.

It was just like, you could sign up for this thing and this guy will talk to you. Wow. So like I signed up for... How cool was that? Oh, that's the coolest thing ever. So like I was there with Natasha Legerro in my shitty... Also, if you don't mind me saying, is the coolest chick ever? She's the fucking coolest chick.

Has to be. Has to be. Like, yeah, like, like, mythic... Her like comedy, that juxtaposition was the funniest shit to me ever. Well, it's just mythical. Fuck yeah. I mean, and it's going to be remembered and it's amazing. And like, it's like being around that kind of comedic mind is like,

just when you get a chance to be around that kind of comedic mind. It's just like... But to you together was like, what? Yeah. Well, we weren't... But we were friends who ended up like, you know, that was a friendship that was romantic and then was... But now we're friends eternally and it's the best thing ever.

It was a super fucking cool mixture. It was a cool mixture and it still is a cool mixture. You know, it's like, she's one of my... She's like one of my probably best friends ever of all time. So, it's amazing to be around her. So, Natasha... Sorry to interrupt you. Natasha has come to my shitty apartment in Echo Park,

where Ramdas is going to like, phone in. How would she dare when she did it? Yeah. So like, so suddenly Ramdas pops up on the Skype screen. And he's like, hello. And I'm like, how are you? And he goes... He goes, well, I'm in Hawaii.

I'm doing great. And he laughed. And then I said to him, are you my guru? And he looks... You know, he's looking into the Skype camera and he goes, he really said this. He goes, sure. Let me finish.

He goes, he goes, sure, I'm your guru. Now what? That's the ultimate moment. Yeah, yeah. Now. Perfect. Now what? Perfect.

Okay, now we've gotten through that dumb part. Remember we started off talking about role playing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so beautiful. That's great. Yeah, it was so beautiful. And it was such a like, sweet moment. And it was such a great way for him to diffuse this like,

heavy thing that I was doing. And so to like, I think a good way to like, kind of wrap the podcast up or to like, tell you about this time, the miracle time bomb thing. Oh yeah. So like, the cool thing that happened at this cringe inducing moment for Martin Olsen at Ramdas' house, is that, so Ramdas like, I'm like...

Wheelchair. Wheelchair is up to me in his living room. And I'm all heartbroken because my mom died. And he's looking at me. And he's smiling because he's like, he's cultivated this thing that he's love. He loves. And he's beaming at me.

And I'm looking at him and of course I start crying. And I say to him, I wish my mom was here because she loved you. And he gets this big smile and he goes, she is here. Right? And so I'm so... Perfect.

Yeah. So, you know, when we've lost someone, you know, and when we've lost someone... How sweet of him to say that. That was the perfect thing to say. Yeah. And so, we have this conversation. And the conversation is a really great conversation

about getting out of your head and going into your heart. And it's real simple. Sure. And basically what he says to me is, you should move from your head into your heart. That's essentially it, you know? And then he did say, he said, we can help you do that.

And that's real. And then we talked. And then after the conversation, so we had this conversation, now get ready to cringe. Ha ha ha! We call this darshan is the name for it. It's a...

The word for it is that it's a meaningful, formal encounter with a being that's been doing a lifetime of work on themselves in a certain way and is playing the role, you could say. Sure. That's more... So, I'm sorry to be cynical about everything, except for playing the role.

Don't... No, but this is an important thing. It's a beautiful thing for someone to take on this role. Yes. It is. Exactly right. I acknowledge that totally. So, within the context of darshan,

everything someone is telling you is very formal and it's something that's very important. Thanks for being so nice to me about this, by the way. Oh, please, it's kidding! It's not a... It's kidding! Hi, you are kidding! It means a lot to me.

I'm not kidding at all. Not even funny. Okay, well, listen. This is my... It's my favorite thing and I love you and I love this and all the contradictions. I love you too, likewise. And embarrassments with it that I acknowledge.

Yes, exactly. And so, the time bomb thing was... Yes. So, he says to me, at the end of this darshan, he says, his cat jumps up on the couch and he looks at the cat and he looks at me and he says to me, oh, the cat sleeps on my chest at night.

And I was like, whatever. I didn't say that to you. Oh, I thought you did. But I'm just kind of like, all right. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I guess the cat sleeps on your chest at night. You know what I mean? In the midst of this remarkable conversation

I had with this being, it certainly isn't like... In my mind, it's not like something I'm going to put at the top of the things I think about that we talked about. Right. So, I'm telling my brother about this encounter with Ram Dass and I'm telling him every detail. Of course. And of course, as I'm telling him the detail, I say,

and Jeff, and then he said the cat like sleeps on his chest at night and my brother, there's this pause. There's this long pause. And my brother goes, you don't remember, do you? Yeah. And I say, what do you mean? And he's like, well, that's what mom used to say about her cat. Like, she would say how Bill, the cat slept on her chest at night.

Get the fuck out, holy shit. But that time bomb happened probably a week after the encounter with Ram Dass. Oh, my God. So, if had he in the moment done some weird, cheesy, clairvoyant thing and been like, no, actually, your mom is actually here with you right now thing, it wouldn't have been a goddamn thing.

That's the most beautiful thing ever, dude. Time bomb. Yeah. And that's it. I love it. I love that story. I love that story. And we call that grace.

Yeah, right. Because it's graceful, because it's like, it really isn't about doing some magic trick in that moment. It's that, and it wouldn't have really meant anything. It's time and space showing respect for something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's- Which is our goal.

We all wish we could be that way. We're so disrespectful, dude. We're comedians, so it's a big fucking horrible thing. They were so disrespectful. We have to find that middle ground where we find the sympathy with all things and the opposite of what we do. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, this was great. Thanks for inviting me. Thank you, Martin. Howdy, Krishna. Yeah, howdy, Krishna. Thanks for listening, everybody. That was Martin Olsen. All the links you need to connect to Martin

are going to be over at dunkintrustle.com. Big thanks to Squarespace for sponsoring this episode. Much thank you, many thank yous, to the flock of crows that's been circling my house, whispering the secrets of the universe down into my windows. I want to thank the God of Light, and of course, full respect to the base God. We'll see you next time, my sweet friends.

Until then, Hare Krishna. Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. You can get Dirty Angel anywhere you get your music. Ghost Towns, Dirty Angel, out now. New album and tour date coming this summer. A good time starts with a great wardrobe. Next stop, J.C. Penney. Family get-togethers to fancy occasions, wedding season two.

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