Ear Biscuits with Rhett & Link - Ep. 2 Philip DeFranco - Ear Biscuits

Episode Date: October 4, 2013

YouTube personality Philip DeFranco has asserted himself as one of the top creators on the platform, garnering a billion-plus views via The Philip Defranco Show since way back in '06. Philip gets personal with Rhett & Link, sharing some stranger-than-fiction stories from his childhood and dating life, as well as his thoughts on marriage and his recent engagement. *NOTE: This conversation contains adult themes and language. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This, this, this, this is Mythical. Welcome to Ear Biscuits. I'm Rhett. And I'm Link. Our guest on this week's show is the one and only Philip DeFranco. We had quite a conversation with Phil that you're going to enjoy. If you enjoy amazing life details of narrow escapes from death and just crazy happenings. Narrow escapes from weird relationships. This guy has lived quite a life and we had quite a conversation with him that we're anxious for you to hear. And he just got engaged talking about what he thinks of marriage, what we think of marriage.

Okay, buckle up for that. But first, I did want to ask you if you thought that we, me and you— You're asking me, not them? Yeah. We're going to go surfing tomorrow morning because we've been going. A lot of people don't know this. We haven't been talking about it. We've been going every week for the past month.

And then we took two weeks off because we got too busy, and I think it's going to happen again. Stand-up paddleboarding slash surfing. Yep. Basically trying to teach ourselves to surf at Will Rogers. Gulte, don't tell them where we're going, because they might show up and try to give us lessons or something. It's funny because I was trying to say teach ourselves to surf when no one's there

so we wouldn't be embarrassed, and here I am saying where it is. Yeah, well, they don't know what tower we go out to, and they don't know what time we get there. And we didn't mention the masks that we wear. That's right. That make us look like mermen. But, yeah, I have a hankering to go back. I am over my injury.

You cracked a rib. Yeah. I mean, I thought it was just a bruised rib, but then, you know, after three weeks, it doesn't feel any better. That's a cracked rib. Can you take a deep breath now and is it still hurt? No, I'm recovered, which means I can go out and re-injure myself. Okay. So I'm ready to do that.

Yeah, so admittedly, it's a little bit dorky. Two grown men out there on these very large boards. I think it's cute. Falling down quite a bit. I got to say, I did have a very self-conscious moment because we got out there and there was a high school surfing class that was occupying the same strand of beach. And there's all these high school girls out there getting ready to surf. You moved down the beach once they really started coming in. I was like, I don't want to be around these high schoolers.

I know how it is in high school. They're going to start bullying me. They're going to make fun of me. The tall guy in the wetsuit on the stand-up paddle board. They're on the cool surfboards. Who can't surf. I stayed down there. I saw that.

Where they were. Until you fall off your board a few times. After I embarrassed myself, I decided to paddle. I did the paddle of shame past all the high schoolers. Yep. And at one point, these two high school girls heckled me. Yeah, I saw that and heard it, and they said, hey, paddleboarder, hey, paddleboarders.

And I was like, good morning. What are you, are you a group or something? They said, we're a class. We're learning to surf. Maybe you would want to get a real surfboard. Heckled me. And I was like, well, I didn't know what, I know you are, but what am I?

They said that, that you should get a real surfboard? I said, why don't you heckle someone your own age? I just didn't have a good response. I'm sure if there was a camera there, I would have had a great response. That's what the paddle is for. It's paddling high schoolers. I don't know. I didn't know that you heard that they heckled me because you didn't say anything.

Why didn't you yell out like, hey, leave my friend alone? Because I know my place, man. I was outside of the break, and I was like, I'm going to stay. You were right there. I'm going to stay out of this. He's being made fun of by high schoolers. I'm going to watch and laugh internally. Yeah, well, we'll talk about it later. That's what I was thinking. We'll talk about it later.

You could have stood up for me, man. Okay, tomorrow, if they say the same things, I'll stick up for you. Don't talk to my friend, guys. Like what you did to John Carson in third grade. Yeah, that's right. John Carson was picking on you and I punched him in the stomach. I should make up for that. Okay, we'll settle that later.

So I owe you? Is that what you're saying? Yeah, that's the bottom line. You're not going to help me with hecklers until I make good on the John Carson thing that you did. True. So I'll go into the fray tomorrow and see if they make fun of me and then you can punch somebody. Okay. We had a great conversation, like we said, with Philip DeFranco. So we don't want to delay getting into this thing any further, but just a couple of things in terms of bio here, if you don't know who Philly D is, he's been on YouTube

since basically the very beginning in 2006. He has amassed over a billion views on just his show, The Philip DeFranco Show. That's quite a landmark. And he's also the creator of the SourceFed channels, which we're friends with those people too. So one word of warning before we get into this conversation. Like we said on last week's show, this show is not necessarily

family friendly. And I would say this is one of those episodes where we had a great, raw, open and honest conversation with Phil about a number of things. But it's not a conversation that's appropriate for kids. So if you're a kid and you're listening right now, you need to go find something else to do. And if you're an adult that has a kid watching, you need to send the kid out. Here it is, our conversation with Philip DeFranco. Now, we saw you, I guess it was two weeks ago, we came to your place to do the SourceFed thing. And when we did the table talk, all of a sudden, when that was done, we started talking about marriage.

You are now engaged. I definitely want to get into that. I don't want to start there. I just want to acknowledge that. That's where we're going to go eventually. We're definitely going to go there. We've got, what, 25 years of marriage between the two of us but not with each other? You might want to clarify that.

I think that it's not fair that you got to just add it. Like if two things happen at the same time. It's fair. Yeah. It's good for you. Well, it's because your experiences are different. It's like when you go to a new plumber and they're like, we have 477 years of plumbing experience. That's not one really old plumber.

No, it's like 12. No, it's like 25 guys who, you know, have been there for a few years. So that's what we're offering you later on in this podcast, is to really get into this whole concept of marriage and what's ahead for you, sir. So you're saying that we're going to be teaching Phil something later? Is that what you're trying to say? Maybe I just build it up too much. I just think let's just talk about it a little bit.

If you have any questions, we're not necessarily going to have good answers, but, you know, it's not about us anyway. There's two of us. There's one of you. You need to speak more. Yeah, but we should go back to the origin first, like the origin of Philip DeFranco. The night of your conception. It was a sloppy, sloppy night. It was a mistake, really.

Well, that's, my dad always says that I was the best mistake he ever made, but I feel like that's what probably 70% of parents say At this point in life My parents never said that to me I still don't know how to take that But were you planned? I never ask

No? I think I was Also, my parents are divorced Are your parents still together? Mine are divorced. So divorced. Still together. Okay.

Well, because in a divorce, it usually comes up. Because usually, you're kind of, even though you're not the problem, like, you were part of that equation. A child, a child, and it adds to the situation. No one wants to be like, Tim, it was your fault. Okay, so you were the accident. Yes. And then it was your fault that they got a divorce? Is that what you're saying? No, no, Tim, it was your fault. Okay, so you were the accident. Yes. And then it was your fault that they got a divorce? Is that what you're saying?

No, no, no, no. It was my fault that those poor people decided, okay, we're having a baby. Let's try and do this. Oh, you were the cause of the marriage. Well, you know what? I have such a bad memory. I don't know. Well, you were pretty small.

It was such a volatile relationship back then. Like if they start talking about the past, I'm like, good, I'm done. I'll see you guys later because it's just – that was actually the reason why I was so scared of marriage for the longest time because that relationship was terrible. And the only reason they had to like even remotely stay together or know each other anymore was me. And then seeing the relationships after. But I mean, one of the reasons I do believe that marriage can work, and maybe it's because I also haven't talked to you guys yet, is my dad, my dad and my stepmom, best relationship I've ever seen. Like, they just love each other.

They take care of each other for better or worse, richer or poorer, sickness and in health. Like, they abide by the vows. Yeah. And they rock it. See, we're already we're already back to the marriage. I know. It's already full circle. So, OK, so you were born into this into this marriage, which this the first one, which

was destined to not destined to not work, not work. Yes. But where was this only offspring from that that union? Yes. I have a I have a half brother from my mom's side that's about 10 years older than me and a half-sister on my dad's side that's 10 years younger than me. You stay in touch with them? My sister more than my brother. I think there it's just even most of my family, I don't have that much of a connection to them.

It's very mom, dad, immediate family. Don't really know many of the others. Uh, we, we recently saw that like my, my uncle and some of my cousins were out in Anaheim and we met one time and then I was like, that was cool,

but I don't, I don't know. I always thought that I was a family person, but when it was fun, they're cool people, but I don't know if there's any reason to keep up with it. Right. Yeah.

Well, I might be getting in touch with some of my third to fifth cousins soon. Third to fifth? Yeah, because Link and I are doing this DNA analysis thing online where they tell you all about it, who you are, where you come from. And they start telling you when your third to fifth cousins start contacting you. So if you want to hang out with any of my third to fifth cousins. Is this at 23andMe? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I messed around with that, and it's really interesting. The thing that throws me off is when it's like, it doesn't say undecided, it's like unknown. Have you gotten the results yet? Oh, yeah. I have not looked at my results, so don't spoil them for me. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You have them, right? I have mine. Oh, you don't have mine? No, not yours yet. Okay, good. I'm going to talk to the guys. Then you can't spoil mine no not yours yet okay good i'm gonna talk to them you can't spoil them i guess it's just i don't know it is interesting to think of like where where you come from but you come from unknown well i come from parts unknown uh i'm mostly european um not as italian

as i thought i was disappointment disappointment um but no i mean it's one of those things that it's like it's interesting so you can mention it's like, it's interesting. So you can mention it, but I'm a very live in the now. And I don't mean that like I'm jumping out of airplanes, but just like, I don't, my brain can only handle so much. So yeah. So you're, so you're not necessarily connecting. I mean, for, for, for us, I think it's like, you know, moving out here to, to the, to the West coast, it's like, you don't, you start, you definitely desire to connect with the people that you're in close proximity it's like you don't you start you definitely desire to connect with the people that you're in close proximity to so you don't have family out here so i mean

other so lindsey's your fiancee we we know her yes and uh i mean who else are you connecting with if you're not connecting with your your half brother and half sister um really just the people around me and it becomes it becomes this weird mishmash of um there are times where i try to not hire my friends because i don't want to employ everyone i know because it changes the relationship a lot but they're not called friends they're called an entourage no no well that's the thing is like it depends on what they're doing for you right yes yes yes it's well it's not not like I'm like one of those like football players that like brings like 40 of their friends to their house and like has their cell phone bills. And like and it's like, oh, and he drives my car. Like, I mean, it's like, right.

You know, I we were all out here. Most of us are tubers. That's how we met in the first place. And we all have kind of the same goal. So, you know, I like Joe Beretta, hire Joe Beretta. I consider him a friend, but it's not like we're like best friends. I think you have to have the, those lines. But for the most part, I have about three close friends, my fiance, and then that's kind of it. I keep it small. I'm a very boring homebody kind of person, unless I'm like,, yeah, we'll totally jump out of an airplane. That'll be fun. And then I go straight back to being boring. And I think it's kind of worked out just because I get to focus on work a lot.

And I don't know. I was thinking about it on the way here. I don't know if I want to change that up that much. I'm pretty happy with it. You don't want to be our best friend? I'll be your best friend. Because the real goal here was that we would become like a trio of best buddies and hang out all the time. Yeah, and that door's locked and that door's locked.

That's kind of what's happening here. The lighting is dead. Turn the lights down very low. I was sketched out when I came here. I looked inside. I was like, I think that's a Christmas tree. And I rang the doorbell three times and no one answered. Everyone's dead inside.

That doorbell goes nowhere. We've got to get rid of it. Yeah, we need to rip that thing down. It's a prop. So what was it like growing up? I still want to kind of track back. Okay. And I don't want to underwhelm you because when I say I have a terrible memory, I really do feel like.

Just make it up. I feel like if I talked to a shrink, they'd be like, you're repressing stuff. We can do that thing where we wrap you in a blanket and you emerge from the womb again, and then we can go through the whole thing. The whole process again. Go to your first memory. We have a blanket. Locking the doors, dimming the lights, now we got the blanket.

It's getting weird. Slash a little sexy. I know what you mean, though. You know, I always question whether I'm suppressing something, too, because my memories of childhood are kind of... Sketchy. Yeah. It's like they're not all there. So is that what you mean? You don't

remember much of the, like, you know, the grade school? Where did you grow up? Do you remember the state? Yes. No, no, no. Yeah. So I was born in New York, specifically the Bronx, and I was there for about 10 to 12 years. once again, the kind of remember it. So you left in middle school-ish? I think middle school or right before.

Okay. Probably. I'm trying to do the math. So this is with both parents or just with one? So my parents are split at this point. My mom wants to move us out to North Carolina. My grandpa lives out there. Just start fresh.

They have this whole battle of, you know, can you leave the state? You can. You can. Visitation. And so my mom moves to North Carolina. My dad ends up a year later moving to Florida. And so I kind of do this back and forth thing. And where in North Carolina?

Asheville, North Carolina, the land of old people and hippies. That's right. Which is actually – I mean that in a positive way. It's accurate. Yeah, but I love it. It's a weird intersection of people there. Yeah, and I don't know. I haven't been back in, I want to say about four to six years, mainly because I'm terrified

of tiny planes and that airport is tiny as hell. And I also don't want to go to Charlotte. Tiny plane landing on a mountaintop is precarious that's what freaks me out no i mean one of the scariest experiences of my life uh um was we were going to the the rnc in florida and somehow i guess we we booked our tickets late and i was on a plane that had six people and i was like and it like has the hump for the for the And I was like, this is how I die. I'm going to die on a plane that they're not even going to report was crashed because it's so small. They might think that it was a car accident. Everyone's getting on.

They're asking, and do you know how to fly a plane? It's like chucking people off the list. You've got to have a backup. When I can see into the cockpit and there's not a door. It's just curtains. I was like, oh, no. How did we even get tickets? It's not a door it's just curtains i was like oh no how did we even get tickets it's like a chicken that comes out we've been to the ashville airport i know what that's like yeah so you grew up from like middle school at the middle school years you moved with

your mom to ashville to ashville north carolina and so that's yeah that's where i i went to middle school and then uh if you if you ever saw my My Life video, at some point, my mom ended up getting into a relationship with a guy that was into illegal activities. And she got cancer at the same time that this guy was getting busted. I'm sorry I didn't watch your Draw My Life because I'm afraid of drawings about people's lives. I'm terrified. I hate fads. I like you to give it to me here at the round table.

But I do want you to draw it here on the table. Right here. Right over Grace's name. Illegal what? Cancer? How? Illegal cancer. The moral of the story is don't get involved with illegal activities. My mom starts dating this awesome guy.

He owns a bar. It's really cool. I get to play darts there. It's where I learned how to play pool. It was just this kind of fun time, even though when I look back on it now, you know, it's kind of sketchy as all hell. And then we move in with this guy, and then things are really good for a little bit. And then one day I heard something on the rafters, for better

word, and we didn't really have an attic space so I was like, what the hell was that? And so he left and I decided to go in there and see what was up and I find this really weird giant jar of mustard. A jar isn't even, it's just a giant, like you went to Costco.

He was addicted to mustard. He was addicted to mustard. That's a problem. But there was mustard all dripped on the sides. And I was like, what the hell was that about? And so it looked like someone had just like put something in there. And I looked in and I dipped my hand in a little and there were tons of bags of pills. And it turned out that he just sold tons of speed like tons and tons and that and then i showed my mom and that started this whole thing that would then go on to uh uh the the law getting involved for a lack of a better way uh to explain it uh her working with that um and then at the same time she uh found out she had cancer and so all time, this guy is helping her get treatment for this. With speed money.

With speed money, I guess. And bar money and other stuff. Maybe some mustard money, too. So the cancer happened first. He was helping with... Well, that's the thing. I can't remember which order it came in. What I do remember is things got a little weird,

and one night we woke up because we found out we had a carbon monoxide detector and the way we found that out was it went off. My mom and I went to the garage and the guy had his, the car on he had a gas mask on and he had everything closed so

all the smoke was just coming straight into the house and yeah and about a week later my mom was, you're going with your dad. And I was with my dad for about two years in Florida. And then there was a whole custody thing again after that situation was handled. I know. You're looking at me like, what the hell? He tried to kill you and your mom?

Yes. I just have to – I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. No, that's – yeah. I mean I'm a decent listener. I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. No, that's – yeah. I mean I'm a decent listener, but – And that was – I think when I'm trying to replay the incidents in my head, I think that happened and then either just before or just after my mom started working with law enforcement. And that's how – yeah.

And so anyway, so that situation, I think that guy is still in jail somewhere in North Carolina. So your mom is – what's the update there? She – did she – what happened with the cancer? Is she a survivor? Yeah, she's a survivor. She's now remarried. Well, she wasn't married to that guy. My mom has been married multiple times.

But she's married now. She's a nurse. So she's – there was this point in her life, I guess, where she was just like, oh, I want to just start helping people. It was like one of that, like, I need to contribute to the world and do something good because I've kind of surrounded myself with lots of bad things. And so she's awesome. She's just rocking it right now. But what was weird was we went to college and not just college at the same time. We went to the same college at the same time because for my first year, I was like, I'll go to community school.

I'll go to AB Tech and I'll go there. And my mom was like, that's a great idea. I will go as well to start getting my general ed out of the way. And yeah, that was – I feel like out of the drug situation or having my mom sit next to me in English, that was way worse. like out of the the drug situation or having my mom sit next to me in english that was way worse that was way way worse if i could if i could live life without one of those two things i would say the second well when did it hit you that i guess i think a lot of times as a kid you go through things and you don't really know how exceptional the situation is right when did it hit you that this is pretty intense like my story is pretty intense and unusual um i don't know i think that's the weird thing is like i say it to you and then i say it

with a smile because it's the weirdest thing to me it's so weird but at the same time and i feel weird because i was so young and you know it probably didn't hit me as hard as everyone else in that situation. Yeah. But I don't know. Maybe I've never really processed how terrifying it was. Maybe I, I don't know. I just consider it like something that happened. And in a weird way, because it's so long ago, it almost feels like it happened to someone else.

And that's how I feel. It kind of like prior to seven years ago, I almost feel like that was, that was like a different person. When I look back, it's like, that was me, but I don't know.

I don't feel those things. I can't, I don't get the, the emotional reaction. And I think like sometimes that scares me because I'm like a normal person probably would still feel something. I don't know. I mean,

I feel, I mean, I know with link, I had a pretty idyllic childhood with, you know, my parents are still together. I was protected from a lot. I know Link had, there were some tumultuous relationships. Yeah, my mom and dad split when I was two. And so there was this, the whole visitation custody. Well, there wasn't a custody battle, really. the whole visitation custody. Well, there wasn't a custody battle really,

but it was the whole visitation with my dad and the woman that he was with that he remarried. So the whole stepmom thing, it was nothing to the extreme of what you're talking about, but there was certainly a traumatic thing for a child. In retrospect, I remember that it wasn't a happy time for me, but at the same time, I wasn't a happy time for me but at the same time i wasn't i'm not i don't remember being scarred i don't feel like i'm scarred now or i don't remember at the time that it was that horrible it was just okay this is just this is just life it could be better it could be worse

my parents could be together that'd probably be better but right no yeah i totally get i think it's weird like now that i'm thinking about it you know when i start thinking about uh when i was talking about like my mom's been married multiple times and like a lot of my childhood i was with my mom uh my dad only got custody later on and it was because of those crazy circumstances but what's interesting is this guy right who did this this thing that he may have tried to kill us right he was in a weird way almost better than than everyone other than that one instance he was better than every other person my mom had like ever married or brought in because the guy before that i don't want this to become a pity party like i'm literally trying to to feel it out like that guy the drug dealer guy

he took care of us he he took care of me he would take me out on his like bike and we would have fun um he he treated my mom nice until that uh and he like and he just and he never hit me and before that was like this drunk truck driver that would like – he taught me how to play chess. So like I always try and look at the positives of it. But – and so like he was the reason I would later like join chess club and I still love chess. But like he was a crazy alcoholic and he would like – he hit my mom. He hit me. And then even after this crazy guy, like there was a time where that guy was terrible and and it's like i almost end up

feeling bad that the situation got to that point i don't know it's just thinking about it's so weird because it was all these other terrible people that directly inflicted harm to me and then just this guy that he was into shady and then he reacted to everything else. Right. I don't know. I know it's like this weird thing that I'm just trying to wrap my head around because he said how traumatic it is. Did anybody try to kill you

once you moved in with your dad? No. That's great. That's a better situation. That's good, yeah, yeah. So that was what? Like, oh, you got to go down to Florida and live with dad?

Yeah, for a little bit. And that was high school? That was just getting into high school. I'm trying to think. It might have been the last year of middle school and then first year of high school. And then it was kind of back and forth for a bit, which was weird. Okay. And so, yeah, so what was that like?

You know, just what kind of kid were you in high school? Boring. And people say nerdy. That's how they usually describe themselves. But I was just like a weird kid. I liked waking up in the morning, watching Dragon Ball Z, going to school, doing my homework there, coming home, playing video games until I went to sleep, and then repeating the cycle. I didn't go out that much. Both my parents in separate situations, they kind of locked me down unless it was like a weekend and it was like a friend

that they had like gone over to the house to vet. They were like very, very oddly protective, especially when like I talked to people and they're like, oh, yeah, when I was a teenager, I would go out all the time and we'd hang out at someone's place. And I was like, you could do that? That's amazing. Like, it was, I mean, maybe it's also that, like, my child and everything, like, I left

home as soon as I could. I turned 17. I graduated early and I was like, I'm out. I'm out. I'm going straight into AB Tech. I have a job. I'm getting a place. I'm getting the f*** out.

And I think I've probably been just, just like running away from home ever since then. Like I love my dad and I visit him probably the most. My mom came out for the first time in three years. I hadn't seen her in three years. I didn't even realize it until I saw her and I was like, oh my God. Like I've just like, I've been pushing. Like when I say like seven years ago, it seems like a whole different person I've just tried to push that entire existence out and be me

who has been on the internet for however long and you know I still reference my past all the time but I don't know I look back and I'm just like I'm really glad I'm here now right so you got out of high school early yes

and then you went to? I went to AB Tech. With your mom? With my mom for the first year. Okay. We had, I guess it was English 101. Sorry, I shouldn't have hit the table. No, that's fine.

English 101. English 101. Bam! And it was a secret. No one knew we were a son and mother until... They thought you were dating as well. Yes. Until she told the teacher, and then he decided that it was a great idea to reference it.

And the worst thing... Did he use you as an example in illustrations? I don't even know why he referenced it. But you weren't living with your mom. You had moved out. It's funny that you said you were trying to get away yet there she is in your class that's probably frustrating yes it was completely frustrating because it's like i have these classes and she's like oh i should probably knock out those classes too what's terrible a few things um one she was way more popular in school like she talked talked to people. I was still a weird loner guy.

Two, she did more in college from the time we both went in on because – so I went to AB Tech and then – and that was because I also wanted to go to the college right next to it, which was – shoot. I can't remember. Anyway, so the college right next to it. But then my girlfriend at the time wanted to go – DC Tech. DC.

CD Tech. It's AB. It was like the next to your alphabet joke didn't work because you didn't know the alphabet yeah i'm sorry it was it took me too long to think of that too so your girlfriend what oh so she was uh she was a year younger than me uh or a year under me and um she wanted to go to east carolina university and i look into it and i'm like oh it has a great med program completely not realizing that i think it was the year a few years prior it was uh the number one or number two party school oh yeah oh yeah um and so went there that relationship goes to hell because uh because one i think halfway into it i was like i'm living with someone i really don't like as a as a. Like outside of from like the physical stuff where at that age, that's all like I was thinking about.

I was just like, you kind of suck as a human being. And I probably sucked as a human being as well. But when you have no money and nothing to do and you're surrounded by that person at all times, like you just, you want to murder each other. And this is in Greenville. This is in Greenville. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which, you know, we're familiar with growing up outside of Raleigh.

And then we were in a large group of friends in high school who the majority of that group of friends all went to ECU. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was probably a dozen in this group that we hung out with that all went to ECU. And we saw at least half of them kind of fall off the map in one year at ECU. So I understand the party school effect there. I'm trying to think what happened there. I don't know. That's also around the time that I started YouTubing because it was free.

But you wanted to be – you said med program. So you had some aspirations at that time. So you were like, I'm going to be a doctor or whatever. Yeah, I had the idea that I was going to be a doctor. I feel like it was also instilled in me since i was uh i was a kid because my dad was like you're gonna be a doctor you're gonna be the first one and you're gonna do this and you're gonna help people um and yeah uh being a a bio major uh a chem minor is like the fastest way to be like i hate. Like I can't like I can't have a life because I'm not a genius. And so like putting in the work, it was I don't know, I, I kind of just

sucked at school, I was not smart enough for it. And I think I was also at that point wanting to be a doctor for all the wrong reasons. And that's pretty much just money. Especially when you look at the world. And there's so many other ways that if that was like just your goal and not to help people or to go into a specialization, don't do that. Don't because otherwise you're just another person contributing to the problem that we have right now. Right. So at some point in there at ECU, you started making videos? Yes. So no money.

I feel like everyone at that point is living off of like either the dollar menu or pasta or ramen. Yeah. And so, yeah, I was, I was there and I was like, Oh,

I'm going to watch lonely girl 15 videos. And so I was watching that. I'm trying to think you guys have been around forever. So you probably remember Renato. Oh yeah. Boheme, stuff like that. Early YouTube.

Yeah. Early, early YouTube back when like it was, it was all about community and then just like crazy, crazy drama problems. Oh, yeah. But, I mean, so that was actually one of the reasons that I continued doing YouTube and also stopped going to college because I was just burnt out. I didn't know if this is what I wanted to do. I was actually rethinking my major. No idea what it would have been. And I go, okay, well, no, I'm going to double down on school. It's going to be important.

And I believe it was either Margaret, which might have been the first person I talked to. You guys remember Margaret? Yeah. Or someone else from YouTube. And they were like, we're going to start this thing called the Partner Program. And we're getting 10 people. And it was like boheme, zipster, like just like old school people. And they're like, and we're probably going to give you like 5K a month, I think is what

it was. And it was nowhere near that. It was nowhere near that at all. But she contacted you because you had made a name for yourself on your channel. Yes, and I think it was... But how did that happen? Fill in that gap. I think what I try to remember... What month I guess it was, was it 2005

where you joined? Did you have a YouTube profile in 05? Because that was like it couldn't have been before that, right? I'd have to double check because that's another thing. It's either 05 or 06. Okay. Yeah, I remember that it was all 4 that's another thing. It's either 05 or 06. Okay. Yeah, I remember that it was all 4x3 back then. We had star system ratings.

What were you doing? What videos? You went from watching videos to making videos. Right, yeah. What were the first videos you made? My first video I ever made, which I was smart enough to remove it six years ago, was me making a video response to Renetto to a video where he was hanging out with his kids for 40 seconds.

And I was like, that's really cool. It makes me happy to see that. It makes me think of me hanging out with my dad when we'd go to the park on the weekends because that's when he would get me and he'd swing me around and it was fun. I don't know, I just love seeing that. And I removed that.

I filmed it in a Panera Bread while I was... I had one online class and I didn't have internet at home at the time. So I was just there, just messing around. And what were you thinking at the time? It was a way to connect. It was totally a way to connect to people. I mean I was rocking a MySpace at the time, getting excited any time I got a new friend that I could possibly talk to. And so YouTube, it was just – it was more immediate. I could see people.

And so that was the first one but the first video that had any substance was probably rush I think it was Rush Limbaugh I always get I always get the conservative talk guys confused but I think it was Rush Limbaugh saying that Michael J Fox was faking his disease not not not faking it but he was exaggerating I remember that yeah so he was exaggerating it. I remember that, yeah. Yeah, so he was exaggerating it. He didn't take his pills, and so then he filmed this ad. And I was like, that's, like, how cynical of a f***ing person are you that that's where you jumped?

And I got so pissed, and so I made this two-minute rant video, and I think it got 30,000, which was amazing to me at the time. And so I was like, oh, I'll do that a little bit. So you had an opinion you you were passionate you made the video you got some traction so then you were like i'm gonna go with this i've got an opinion thing well not not actually at that point i uh not at that point i had uh i i also did something with a bunch of buddies. The front page of YouTube was curated at that point. And so anytime anything went up there, we would automatically jump and either make a response or a spoof to it.

Kind of like what you see with Vine now when anyone pops on something and then everyone else does that idea or a spoof of it. I think it has – Vine actually has a lot of ties to early, early YouTube. I think Vine actually has a lot of ties to early, early YouTube, even the really, really bad sponsor integrations into a place that doesn't have ads. And you're like, oh, okay. So everyone loves Wendy's right now? Oh, okay. Everyone loves Uber right now? Okay, great.

But, yeah. Oh, and so we would watch those videos, try and get to be one of the first video responses or do the exact opposite if they had their stuff on not auto-accept video responses and they would actually wait. We'd try and be one of the last because you're kind of just guessing when they're going to get online and if you'd be one of the last videos that would pop up. You'd be the first one. Yeah. So people would be like, what's that video? And I also made fun of a lot of early YouTubers to get any attention whatsoever.

So like TheHill88, I think I might have made fun of Mimi Molly at some point. Just early YouTubers. And then, you know, it was all in fun. One of the first videos we made once we really started trying to get traction was we started making response videos too. We made a response video to Wicked Awesome Films' Punchy. Oh, wow. You remember that sketch? Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Bobby. That got some traction. And then there was these two... The twins. The Puche twins? They did a skateboarding video. Okay.

And then we did this video where we were silhouetted and we altered our voices and then we just made fun of these kids. But it got a few thousand views or whatever the number was. We stopped after that. It didn't really work for us.

Well, no. I was going to say that I actually think that it was— That did it for us? I think the real thing that did it was when one of our videos was featured on the homepage. But, yeah, that was—you taste a little bit of that, like, traction. Taste the traction. That's the YouTube slogan from 2006. And then you just start chasing it,

you know? God, I always, I forgot, like, I was featured was a saying then. Oh. It was, and it was, that was it, man. It was the biggest thing, yeah. It was a turning point. Yeah, I remember I got featured once, and it was on a video that had nothing to do with any of my other content. I was like, it was like a video where I showed my sister existed.

Same thing happened to us. Rhett had his son Locke react to a basketball game, Wolfpack versus Tar Heels. It's still on our channel. And he YouTube contacted us to feature it. He was in his underwear, and it got flagged and taken down. And then YouTube asked us, where is the video? We said, well, it was flagged. You took it down.

Like we were talking to the YouTube. You took it down, YouTube. YouTube was like, oh, well, upload it again and we'll feature it. This was like a phone conversation. Right. That's amazing. But then I said, okay, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to put the video back online.

We'll put it back up. But I'm going to ask you right now, will you feature one of our music videos? Because, you know, we're actually trying to do this YouTube thing. But not with our kids. And this is just a video of my child being funny. Put it back up, but please feature one of our videos. They featured the Unibrow song. Yeah, and it was that taste of traction and enough people liked it but did

you did you have like because i think back to that time for us it was we even before youtube we had this very uh undefined uh aspiration to do entertainment full-time it was like we want to entertain that's what we want to do you know we had been engineers for a while and we knew that we we got enough of that to know that we didn't want to do that full time. Right. When you were doing that initially, because none of us really had an idea that there was such a thing as full time YouTuber. That wasn't a job that existed. So it was very difficult to aspire to it.

So what were you hoping to accomplish? I had no idea. I think that's for most of us. Well, most of us that didn't have like those back, that background or aspiration, no idea. Um, I think I was one of the talking heads that had a schedule and, and eventually I, I, I didn't fully love the opinion stuff until later when I actually started meeting people and seeing that I wasn't just a crazy person talking to my camera that that it actually either made someone care about the news or the world around them,

or it helped form their opinion, whether it was to agree with me or not. And that's when I really, really got into it. But I mean, obviously, I think Zay. Zay Frank was the reason that I ended up actually doing this show because he had the show with Zay Frank for one year. After it ended, I feel like a month after, I was just like, the internet's soay Frank for one year. After it ended, I feel like a month after, I was just like,

the internet's so boring to me right now. Like, the only other thing I have is Rocket Boom, which was going through like weird transitions at that point. And so I was like, I'm gonna do a show. And the first like two or three that I did was a terrible, terrible rip off of Zay's show. And I eventually just I was like, Oh, I should just try and find my voice like I have to because otherwise, I'm going to be this terrible, terrible accidental parody of a really, really great person. And slowly found my voice. I tried to keep the videos to three to four. Now they're crazy out of hand, eight to 12 minutes depending on the day. But, yeah, I mean that was really it.

And just like the early stuff, I probably wouldn't be here if while I was at school, my laptop just, it just, I forget what happened, but it just stopped working one day and I didn't have a camera and I couldn't get, make YouTube videos. And so I remember on one of my school computers, I was talking to this guy that I had met in a stick them chat room, which is also where I met Lindsay, uh, who then would go on to be my fiance and just like, we would stick them. I remember. Yeah. We would just all go there. And then, uh, and so this guy, he's like, well, I just got my tax return. So – and he bought me an iMac because he liked the videos and he said he believed in me. And at this point, I hadn't even created the show.

And this is back when I was still wearing a backwards hat and I had like earrings and I was just like a huge tool bag. And what was it? Channel 101 was like courting people to make content for tv um and like I think back and I'm like that guy if that guy did not exist he's from a stickum chat room yeah he was just a friend Mike you didn't you didn't have a computer to how did he how did he know that you lost your well because no I was on a school computer and I was just chatting didn have a – I'm trying to remember if I had my camera or there was no camera or I just chose not to. And I just – I was talking and then he was like, I can help you out.

And I thought he was f***ing with me and I got an iMac and I got to continue making videos. There's a – I'd have to look because I know a lot of the videos are unlisted. But it's the specific moment when I go from being black and white with a camera that shot like 320 by 240 to uh shooting with the eyesight and it's just yeah I mean like with that that's what I love about early early stuff and it's I think to this day why I always try and test out things where we feature people whether it's it's a known creator that's been trying for a while or just like the one-offs because you never know like it I don – I don't want it to come off like terrible. Like I've gone to the YouTube space before and they were shooting this massive, massive video. And the director came over and he said thank you because I had pimped out one of his earlier things.

And I was like – and I just said, you're welcome. I had no idea who this guy is because we just like to promote things that are cool. Like that's been the thing. Like before there was a business model. There was not a business model. there was not a business model. There was just a love and a passion for cool shit. And so, I don't know. I think it's those things that probably still keep me sane today rather than just, like,

staring at a screen and going, like, everything is a lie and it's all a sham and we're so all LA. Yeah. I mean, the whole pay it forward thing, the fact that you can pay it forward to the point where you don't even know who you just paid. I mean, that's a beautiful thing. I'm sure when we talk to Shea, you know, we'll get him in here at the table. And I know that you're going to be more than a blip in his story. Shay's been probably the most continually appreciative person throughout all his then later on successes, which he is 100%. Like a lesser person would not have accomplished that despite any promotion in the beginning.

So I don't know. But there have been cases of just like people that you help. And also you see this now with the next generation of tubers, even the ones that like popped two years ago that started bringing people up. And they're bringing up people that aren't like Shay. And you just see relationships and friendships and just terrible, terrible. You know, we teased to it at the top. And now everybody's just been waiting around to get back to this whole marriage thing. Now, you and Lindsey, how long were you dating off of Stickham?

Stick cam. Well, so we weren't dating at that point because I – my life is so stupid and weird. I had what I thought was a girlfriend for four to six months, and it turned out to be a crazy girl. I like how you give ranges on things. It's good. It's very safe. Man, I don't know. Four to six years, ten to twelve, four to six very safe. Man, I don't know. 46 years, 10 to 12, 46 months.

Your Honor, I don't recall. It depends on what you mean by is. I literally don't know things, so I just give ranges. So for a while there was this girl online that I was really into

and we would talk every day. Once again, I was a very lonely kid growing up, so it was all about this girl that I talked to only on voice, and she had a MySpace profile. She totally had to be real and live in New York, like she said. Oh, my. And so back then, anyway, I'm going to compress this part to get to Lindsay, which actually matters.

I moved to New York. I threw all my stuff in my car, moved to New York because we're totally going to get this place together. At what point is this in what you've already told us? At this point, this is right after the girlfriend that I had in college. Okay. So this is. I was getting YouTube AdSense at this point or no.

It was either right before or right after. Trying to, I hate my memory. So you were a YouTube celebrity. You need a diary. Oh, you were getting AdSense. You weren't my memory. So you were a YouTube celebrity. You need a diary. Oh, you were getting AdSense. You weren't getting, yeah, you were. I'm trying to think if it had to be AdSense at that point. Anyway, so at that point, I'm like, I don't know what I want to do, but I want to go to

New York. I know I'm from New York. I probably have some family there that I haven't like talked to ever because like the last time I had seen them, I was like 12 and I never really talked to family. Get out there. Turns out, oh, the place that I totally thought we were getting together is just like some random house that's still for rent. And I'm up there now with no money because I thought everything was all squared away and we had like done the down payment in the first month. But this is a real girl.

Real girl. Just don't know who she is at all. Like all we know is that she was in, I think, what was Kansas because then she – so the worst thing, right? So I'm up there. She's one of these – like before Catfish came out and everything, she's one of these people that like created 20 MySpace accounts and they all all had, like, they would all talk. A boyfriend. There was an ex-boyfriend, and there were the friends, and what do you mean? Like, you're angry at Megan?

Oh, you're a terrible, like, just full-on orchestrated. And I couldn't get a hold of her, and then I'm sleeping in my car. You mean you couldn't get a hold of her when you went to meet her in New York where you made a down payment on an apartment that you were going to live in together? Where I gave money on PayPal to her to do it. I'm smart, very stupid. I'm a very stupid person. So I'm there. And this is Yeah, this is over six years ago. End up having to sleep in my car. I'm freaked out because I'm like, what the hell happened? I thought that she had a semi violent ex boyfriend. And then on my MySpace when I wake up in the morning and I forget where I went to finally find internet and any food. There's like this whole thing about how they fouled Megan and they like beat her up and she's in the hospital.

And I just remember just driving blankly on. I was like, I don't know. She has to be lying. It has to be like this doesn't happen in real life. Like this is like it was that point where like it just starts to shatter because I think to say that I didn't have doubts before. Like there are only so many times you can be like, I don't have a camera or like or I can't live stream. Like it's I think it was more believable then. Like if the same shit happens now, like you just want it too much.

And I probably just wanted it too much at that point i was lonely i had no direction in my life and i was just moving to to new york with nothing in my little it was like 93 geoprism it was just like periwinkle blue just and oh yeah i remember i was like okay i don't even know where to go at this point and i just remember for some reason i'm on the jersey turnpike and i pull over into a gas station and i call her from a pay phone. And so she finally answers and she talks about how she was like beat up and everything. And I was like, I know you're lying. There's no way any of this happened.

There's no way. And so I max out and overdraw all my cards. I get back to North Carolina. In a very weird way, without this, I probably would not have gone on further on YouTube because at that point, I ended up staying with my mom for two months. Oh, wait. I'm sorry. I completely changed the whole idea. I got back. None of my friends believed me.

None of my friends believed that she was just – they said that I was like an – that I just didn't understand and I was being completely rude to this victim – like this girl that was a victim. They were on her side. Yes. Like people that I had actually like met at points in my life did not believe me but they like believed this random internet person. And so I later found out that she also then did this to one of the other guy friends that were in this like stick them group because I talked to her before Lindsay. And Lindsay still gives me shit about all this because it's just such a stupid time in my life. But she ends up doing the same thing to this guy.

And then they did a bunch of research and they found out she was like, I guess when I was talking to her, like a 17 year old girl in Kansas. So that was just craziness there. anyway so uh lindsey and i lindsey was in a group of people who talked on yeah stick them yeah with you and another guy who both were taken advantage of by this girl and she i don't think she knew the other guy but she did know of megan it's weird wow it's weird that's so what's making up this is why i hate talking about my life because it's so weird that i feel like i feel like when anyone like people look at me they're either going that's weird or you have to be lying and that's why i i think i also hate talking about my past it It's super weird. I don't know. Well, it's entertaining.

I hope it's at least entertaining at this point. So then, okay, so Lindsay. I'm so weird and damaged. So then Lindsay, she never would turn on her mic. She'd always be in Stick Em, and I was like, oh, who's this little pretty blonde girl? And then if you look at any history of Lindsay, Lindsay was bigger than me on YouTube at the time. She was all about like the Braves and her original YouTube name was Braves Girl 5. Right.

Then it was like B Girl 5 now. All right. Wait. I think it's – I have to – it's Lynn's Loves Now. That's right. Where she posts her travel stuff. But there was, like, this whole thing with, like, the old school Encyclopedia Dramatica guys and, like, people, like, photoshopping weird sex pictures of this, like, young blonde girl, Lindsay. And I just remember, like, there was a page where, like, it's literally nothing but GIFs of, like, her photoshopped face getting, like, by two giant black dudes. And I was like, this is on the internet and

apparently she got crazy harassed so you believed megan that was real but you didn't believe that i didn't believe that very photoshopped gif okay okay good because that i think that would probably change my conversation my opener i'm like so i saw this picture but we uh so we were in the chat room and then some some random person orchestrated one of the first YouTube gathering – I think the first YouTube gathering I had ever gone to and that was DCTube, which is supposed to be this like kind of biggish event for everything. Like literally it was like eight of us who were flown out and like they paid for us to be there and three people. Two of the people did not like my videos and i was like this is the worst time ever i'm just gonna get obscenely drunk and so i just i did that and that was the first time i met lindsey and uh i met her at uh i think it

was like an ihop or a waffle house in the morning and i was just like this girl is really pretty but i shouldn't do anything about it because uh the time I thought I was in a relationship with fake girl Megan. And literally the last thing I said to Lindsay before she left when we were hanging out was, I'm so glad there's no sexual tension between us so we can be friends. And then she's like, yeah, and then she left. And I just remember that. So basically you said, I'm not attracted to you i think that you're an okay person and i don't want to punch you but i also don't want to have sex with you i think is what that phrase means

okay yes it's a loaded phrase but then all the craziness happens uh and then uh at some point there is a another youtube gathering called uh south tube and at south tube i end up uh i don't have enough money to stay at a hotel so lindsey's like you can totally crash at my uh dorm and i was like that sounds great and uh i i hung out with her her there that first night and then that was the first time see now I'm trying to remember because there's also a night where mystery guitar man Joe Penna also no it was the same

night never mind this is a completely weird thing so the first time I ever had relations with my girlfriend Joe Penna was about 10 feet away in the other room I didn't even think of that oh my god that's where the mystery comes from the mystery now she wasn't wearing sunglasses because he might have been closer than you thought

he was just in the dark you see a tiny glimmer off his sunglasses um yeah no that was that was right because yeah joe was coming up at the time i mean that's the thing about a lot of the old schoolers who are now trying on i know it's so terrible it's amazing it's i didn't even remember that anyway so that's where that relationship started uh uh because then like a week later she was like oh i hear maroon fives playing in florida like i checked later and maroon five was in atlanta like two days before that but she wanted to come down and hang out oh um and so yeah and so she came down uh we had a blast. It was fun. And then she was going to leave. And there's this whole like sappy, like I wrote a note and left it in her purse. And it was

like, I wish that you could stay an extra day. And it just so happened that her plane ended up getting, or the flight was canceled and she had to wait until the next day. So she got to stay another day and it was awesome. And I think it was at that point I was like, okay, yeah, she went back. And I want to say about a week or two later, I'm having to deal with it now too because we just got approved for a mortgage. And I was like, oh, I remember that terrible blemish on my credit. I left that lease because I moved to Atlanta and just ditched the place. Yeah, that hurt my credit score. So I ditched the place.

But it helped your relationship. That's right, yeah. And then I was in Atlanta. There's this whole shebang of YouTube money wasn't as good as we thought it was going to be because it was definitely promised that it would be a lot bigger. And so then I overspent on like a few things here or there.

She had to hide me in her mom's basement when they were trying to sell the house which worked for about three weeks until they tried to show the place and we had just no heads up. And, yeah, so, I mean, that's another reason I love Lindsay so much. She's always had my back and she always, like, even when I didn't have anything and no one was, like, going, yay, or no one was even trying to get stuff from me, like Like she had my back, man. She, she was like one of the few genuine people that it's not that I can trust. It's that I know that I can trust. I think when people have had the opportunity to take from you, um, and they haven't, and they had your back when you didn't have anything, I think that's, that's the, probably the, the, the thing that

led to me going like, Oh, I love this girl. Because I think in any relationship you have those feelings for the first – I mean they're the range, right? There's the three months and then at three months you usually know it's make or break. And then you're either really into it or you just like there's something keeping you there. And then there's the one to two year and then – and obviously I'm going to ask you guys because you're going to have a different thing. And obviously I'm going to ask you guys because you're going to have a different thing. But there's like definitely something around three to four that it's like you start not remembering maybe what it was like before that person was there. And even inside of our relationship, we had – we broke up two times. One, we had a – we rented a loft and I worked from home and she took online courses and that was a nightmare because you could just hear each other all day while I'm trying to record and she's trying to study.

And it was just like, ah, we freaked out. And she ended up getting her own place. It was like one of her mom's old, old place that was still available. How long was that breakup? Well, the breakup was only for about a week. I think both breakups actually for, well, so one was a week and then the other was like two days. Okay. So we're talking relational tantrums.

Yeah. Actually. Yeah. When you look back on it, it's not somebody's part. I'm not pointing any fingers. And this is before you were out here in LA. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, one happened in Atlanta. Another one happened a year and a half, two years ago. And I mean, that was another thing. I was actually ready to propose. She had been, it was like that lust for a person you she was like, I want to see Europe. And I didn't have the time in my schedule. So I was like, go. Go do it. Like just like rock it out. And so she went for like three weeks and she came back. And then – and I was like, okay, I'm going to propose.

I'm like going to ring shops and I have no idea about rings at the time. And I'm like slowly alerting. And then we have like – Yeah, you call them ring shops. That's part of your problem. Sorry. And how long ago was this stupid before I before I realized that you should go wholesale um how long ago was this when you were about to propose I want to say it was about I hate you because you make you're making me self-aware of my ranges uh it was probably about a year and

a half two years ago okay yeah yeah and so she and she came back and we had some weird petty argument over the dog pooping in the house like because i was like you've been gone for three weeks so you ended the argument with and i was gonna propose no oh no i feel like that's like the wrong that's the wrong thing to do uh no i didn't even say that until i want to say about four months ago she never knew until years later four months ago yeah because she was definitely getting antsy and in my head i've known for about eight months since because it definitely that whole breakup it made me like oh like i don't know i'm not i don't know like the world around me i I'm not sure about things. But that – yeah, I knew again about eight months ago. OK.

By the way, Lindsay is a little bit of an asshole too. Have I ever told you about the time she made me cry? No. So this is I think between the breakup scenario and now. So before proposing. I'm really drunk one night. So before proposing, I'm really drunk one night. She's a little bit drunk, but not super drunk to have to realize that she could totally prank me.

And how does she decide to prank me? But give me a fake pregnancy test that she got from a prank shop. And I was so happy and I started crying. She thought I was going to like reel back in terror, in terror which by the way why would you even test that but and i'm just so excited and i'm like crying and i didn't even realize i wanted it at that point but it was like this realization to me i was like i don't know if that's called a prank or if that's called manipulation no i don't i no see growing up uh with with uh and i love her now because it's something in my blood. Like growing up with my mom, I think I know what manipulation is. Granted, when it's that close to you, you never know.

But I think – I was just kind of joking. So she thought it was a funny prank. Oh, she thought it was hilarious. She didn't realize – But then she learned something that if she had wanted to manipulate you – Oh, yeah. She was waiting for the moment of shock. oh man i'm just kidding but tears and i was happy and like i

think in that moment i'm just like it could be a boy or girl and i'm happy and i get to like go through all these new because i think at that point um and i think it when i talk about like pushing my my past behind me and everything i think it's because those are the things that make me feel. And I think a lot of those old things made me feel bad things, whether it was, you know, maybe fear, maybe just shitty about myself or anything. But all of a sudden I could have essentially a new start to all of those situations where I don't up that kid's childhood. And I can, you know, live through that kid in like,

you're not having a childhood and you hopefully have two parents that love you equally and don't hate each other. And I can be a part of that granted in a different position, but I could do that. And I think it was like, all of that came into my head and then it was immediately ripped away. And I was like, and I like, and how did she rip it away? What did she say? Well, no, she was like all of that came into my head and then it was immediately ripped away and i was like and i like i and how did she rip it away what did she say well no she's like no no i'm joking

no you're right psych and that she has a camera uh oh man i'm trying to think if she had a camera as well because i just know i was i was so torn oh anyway so that that with me i don't even know where we were but she started you You're making me remember my life. You started crying. And she was like, I'm so sorry. Tears of joy and then tears of devastation. And then she felt horrible about it. But she learned something.

Then it was just 30 minutes of me going, that's so fucked. That's just me, ranting and raving throughout the house. But that definitely had to change, or maybe not change, maybe reinforce the way that she felt about you. At that point, was it like talk of marriage began to enter the picture? Lindsay is the kind of girl that always wants a marriage. I think Mike Birbiglia, a great comedian, put it the best way is, I don't even necessarily still believe in marriage. I believe in the person that I am now marrying. I know that it's something that she wants.

I know that she makes me happy. I think other than like those random moments of doubt and like really there's just the two that I can think of. Like I feel even though I've never thought like, oh, I have to get married, I always knew that like Lindsay was the person that if I did get married – like I wanted to be with that person. I wanted to start a family. I wanted to – still to this day, like I feel like I'm two Phils. I'm work Phil and then I escape from that and I get to be Phil Phil and I get to be that with Lindsay and like my three or four friends. And so I've always known. She, if anything, was negative to the relationship is every now and then she would push a little bit too hard for the whole marriage thing. Like the previous Christmas, like I got her a really nice necklace.

And apparently there was something that I said at one point somewhere that made her think that it was going to be a ring. And the disappointment in her – A necklace is a ring for a really big finger. You could have said that. Yeah. But not yours. And it's just going to work. Your ring ain't – your finger ain't that fat.

That's what you could have said. It's your fault. Your finger ain't that fat. It's your fault. For a necklace. No, just the disappointment in her face and the disappointment in her stepmom's face. And I was just like – Oh, she had talked to her.

Apparently. And, yeah, I think if anything it was the pushing. But I think she was also at that point where, you know, we were together for over five years. And we'd always – I'd always point to our buddy Danebo who created Annoying Orange. She waited ten years before doing that. And she's like, no. Like I feel like Lindsay would still be with me but she'd definitely be a different Lindsay. And I don't know.

I feel like we're also at the point where it's not that, you know, we just proposed and we have that like that glow about us. I mean right now we're making a lot of big decisions because we did that, right? So I proposed. We're going to have to figure out the wedding in 30 days. I might actually own my first house, which I'm really, really, like it's all the adult stuff. And then the proposal is online now. There's a video that people can watch, right?

The proposal, yeah. Well, no, no, it's not up yet. We're going to, we're going to, well, yeah, no, there is. I don't even know what's happening in my life. Yeah, I'm, yeah. It's online. I feel like I've seen it i think it was on youtube yes so you might website youtube yeah yeah i uh that's right i posted that video because i edited it myself because i was like i have to share it because there are all these like terrible angles

where i look like a giant fat person it was just it was just my vanity that made me edit the video there's like the first thing i've edited in a little bit. What pushed you over to make the proposal? I just wanted it, I think. I wanted her to be happy about it. I wanted, like, whatever that feeling is where you know, like, this is the woman I'll marry. I had been there. I just don't believe in the idea of marriage. I, we went to a,

a wedding and I felt so uncomfortable in this church that was describing marriage as this thing God created. And like, and I don't know, there was just like this weird thing. And I was like, well, I'm not getting married because like God wants me to get married. I'm doing it because Lindsay, I want her to be happy and to know, even though I don't put value in the paper or the rings, even though I know what they stand for and I believe those things, like she does. And because of that, it matters to me. And because of that, I go along with it. I know that Lindsay's like the only part, like if I hurt Lindsay and, and hopefully in the future when we have kids and, uh, and I, or I hurt those kids, like that seems terrifying to me. That's the last thing that I want. And I feel like those are all the things that you think of when you're like, I'm going to marry this girl after like four weeks. Um, it's, but I've

continually felt that. And I don't think I would ever feel that. I mean, obviously I don't, I don't believe in the one and all the others. Wait, what were you going to say? No, go ahead. I don't believe in the one. Oh, like that we all have just like one other person. Right. You know, I think that's a little silly.

Right. Yeah. So you don't think that there's a ceremony that you can craft that would have meaning for you. It's more of this already has meaning for her and I love her enough to do this for her is what I hear you saying. For her, yes. I mean for me when I have the ring and I get to clink it on the table and I know that will have meaning to me because it's there. But also it's probably my dad instilled in me when i was

younger he's like there's no reason that you have to that probably also played a big role he's like it's just a piece of paper i like i'm just remember like my dad having these conversations with like six to eight year old me just like your your uncle he was with his with his uh his now ex wife for 15 years before they decided to get married. And then like six months after it changed everything. Like they had the wedding and it was like, no, you can't go out because you're my husband and I'm your wife. And like,

apparently it changed everything. And so I had those fear stories. I had the people that raised me. Um, and honestly, like other than, than that, like my,

I think I said earlier, my dad and my stepmom, like they made me believe that like people can be there. People can have your back. And I don't know. And when I look at Lindsay, even though I think in relationships people love each other at different levels and it's constantly fluctuating, it's – I don't know. I feel like it's always there. It might change when I'm at your guys' point having 12 to 13 years,

but how about that? Instead of me babbling, in your relationships, did you ever have real breakups or little fights like me? No breakups. We built marriage up as some big thing that there was no—we didn't live together before we got married. I mean, our first year of marriage was absolutely horrible because it was our first year of being together in every sense of the word. Well, we dated beforehand. We were in the same room beforehand. Lived in.

Is that what you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, same with me in my life so marriage is something that was maybe it's more of kind of how lindsey thinks of it that it was a it was such a oh we aspire towards this this moment this ceremony everything's going to change after and then the next year it was like oh gosh now i gotta how do i live with this woman so if there was going to be a breakup it would have happened in the first year of marriage. Oh, abort this marriage.

Get out. The building's on fire. It's coming down. Why did we put a down payment on this place? It's kind of how we felt about it. But, I mean, there was love and there was a commitment, and we got through it. That's good. But there was no breakup. I mean, we might have had a fight last night that she said, sleep on the couch.

That may have happened. Really? But we talked about it. Saw some texts about that. I didn't end up sleeping on the couch. I'll put it that way. We nip things in the bud these days. We nip things in the bud these days.

And I think that's my perspective too is what you're talking about with the fluctuation of the love level, which is so true. It's like I think that our culture has definitely made it all about just the romantic connection. And it's just like you don't see many movies. It's not a really exciting story on TV or in a movie to just talk about commitment. We're constantly presented with images of the moment of romance. That's what a romantic comedy is. That's what a love story is. It's the moment where these two people came together in fiery passion and that kind of thing. And that's something that ebbs and flows with any relationship. And I think that's,

you know, getting married at a young age. I mean, we were both like right out of college. My wife wasn't even done with college when we got married. What it represents on this side of it is this like, yeah, we've made a commitment. And not that there is a lot of romance. We have a great relationship. We're still in love with each other. We still date. We still experience each other relationally in the way that we did when we were dating. But it's like it's not based on this.

At times you experience that. But it's not just like, okay. It's not all experience that. But it's not just like, okay, it's not just this like we're compatible because I think the fact is that, yes, we are compatible in a relative sense. But you're only compatible with yourself ultimately, right? No one is really compatible with someone else all the time. all 100% and 100% of all the ways you need to be or that you could be and 100% of the time that you conduct life with somebody and so right so when when when you get to that point where it's just like all right you know right now it's very difficult to love this person it's very difficult to have a romantic feeling right now in the midst of this thing it's like for me the marriage

represents that commitment. What I hear you saying is that, well, the commitment is there. I don't need the formal arrangement in order to maintain that commitment. My big thing, right, because there are those moments of we're romantic. There are those moments of you take care of each other when you're sick. But how do you react in a relationship when over two to four years that person i mean even sooner when those that person changes like do you grow together but also how do you how do you get along and how do you deal with

it when one person just feeling like an asshole that day and they're just when i'm a douche just like a completely miserable terrible self-deprecating i hate my my myself um what's the reaction to that is it shut up you're stupid or is it you know something that helps or like there is no answer i think it comes down to that what works for that relationship because I can sometimes be a hard person to live with if I end up bringing my day home. And that's why I have been living this whole like two different fills. But I think if a relationship works or not, it isn't based on the good. It's based on when the relationship is shit and when circumstances are shit. Do you fall apart or is your relationship

something that only works um when the environment around you is perfect and that's when i see like a lot of the divorces it's like everything's good uh especially like friends from back home you know our parents are paying for most everything uh you know and i don't think there's anything wrong with living with the parents for a few years. I went the different route. But it's definitely like when life happens, like my relationship with that girl before all the craziness when we were in college didn't work out. And a big part was like when things weren't perfect and everything didn't work, we hated each other. And we had no desire to make anything better. Like, and we had no desire to make anything better. And with Lindsay, it is that like still years in, I don't, it's more than I just don't want to go to sleep angry.

It's because it's a little bit for me, but also because I care about that person and I don't want to have messed up that person's day. And I don't know, it's something weird and deep and even a little bit analytical like me and non-feeling, even though it is. If that makes sense. I mean, you talk about changing. I mean, as humans, we're constantly changing. To me, marriage is making a decision to do life with somebody, and there's a commitment that we are going to live life together, and so we're going to change together.

Old couples, they look alike because they live life together and so we're going to change together you know old couples they look alike because they live life together you know that's my goal is my wife's better looking than me my goal is to look more like my wife when i get old that's really what it comes down to that just trying not to sleep on the couch tonight she's listening right now baby but it's also why you shouldn't get a dog because you also begin looking like your dog. And if you have a dog, for the time that you have that dog, the wife and you and the dog all begin looking like you. And if you have a dog, the dog wins. It's not even a merge.

But there's an evolutionary kind of pace to being a person that's just constantly changing. to being a person that's just constantly changing. And to me, it's when everything, when things go bad, it's I fall back on the commitment that we're doing this together. We're in this together. We're going to get through this together. And it takes a lot of work constantly to, it's not just when it hits the fan, but it's every day.

It's the small things. Well, I think it also helps you eventually, or in the long way, be happy. I feel like because you put so much on that commitment that you always have that option there. Because I feel like in everything, especially in relationships, there's a million easy ways both to to escape or to mess it up but like when when you look at that that harder road if you really really believe it i mean you're living that life there's a and there's a reward to that that there's a reward to that harder road what do you think the reward is true companionship you know the... Well, in your building, I mean...

I'm asking you to be my true companion. I think it's very fitting that when you thought that Lindsay was pregnant, you cried and you thought about what that would be like. Because I think that that's a big part of it, too. I think that, you know, traditionally, you know, the romantic view of relationships is a relatively new creation that the primary purpose of our relationships is is romance. In the past, it was like the primary reason that men and women got together was so they could procreate and build families and create and basically contribute to society and just continue carrying on the human race. Right. That continues to be a big part of it. And when you – so you create this environment in which children can come and, you know, now we've got the McLaughlin family. And the McLaughlin family is my wife and I and these two little boys.

You know, it's like you start seeing it's just like, yes, this is so much bigger than me and just wanting to be with this one individual person. I'm building something that needs to be solid. You know, it can't just be like, you know what, I met this other person and, you know, we're having a real good time together. I'm just going to leave this situation behind. You guys figure it out. I think that that's one of the rewards. One of the rewards is this, is this family and this, this legacy. It's not easy. There's absolutely nothing about it that's easy. It would probably just be easier to just be a bachelor, a George Clooney that moves from one lady to the next, you know? So, I mean, for me, a big reward is just, I feel like there's something

bigger than me happening here. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, you talk about the, oh, I'm moving on to the next person now. I mean, that's what my dad did when I was two. And I don't want to recreate that, you know? I mean, he had a tough road after that. And so did I as a kid, you know, I don't want to give that to, I want to build something different, you know? So I think that I was very, um, calculated and very scientific about my approach to engagement and seeing marriage as this huge threshold that, uh, it, this means something that I'm going to change. I'm going to change the pattern that was set by my dad, and I'm going to set the foundation to create, to build something like what you were talking about that is tremendously rewarding and ultimately doesn't create all these

painful barriers that I had to overcome as a kid to become who I am. In one sense, I'm thankful for those things. It made me who I am, yes, but it's exciting and it's rewarding to say, to have the prospect of teaming up with somebody, a wife, and saying, I'm going to build this thing that has other little people that then get bigger and you have to reprimand. Yeah, it is the, uh, the, the partnership that's interesting because, uh, there was a time where I thought like, oh, okay, I want a woman that's like, she's doing the bigs

like she's, she's like a businesswoman or she's out there doing all these things because that's like that's what you do you got to work for it and I don't want like a house housewife or anything and then I'm like I realized like if Lindsay didn't have my back and she what didn't play the support role I would crumble I would fall apart and I think the thing that pushes me is it's real I mean this awesome, and I like talking to you guys, and I actually dig the podcast because we get to shoot the shit and have real moments.

That was going to be the name of the podcast for a while. It was what? Real moments or shoot the shit? Shoot the moments. But we didn't feel like it would go over well with our audience. They're like, but it doesn't make sense. We called it Ear Biscuits. Ear Biscuits.

Is that what it is? It is. It's fantastic. Why not? We haven't told sense. We call it Ear Biscuits. Ear Biscuit. Is that what it is? It is. It's fantastic. Why not? We haven't told you yet. Yeah. Welcome to Ear Biscuits. See, but then my mind goes to a completely not real place and I'm like, oh, well, the

merchandising on that. Like, it's literally like all my successes that I get, like when I go to any stupid LA party and I get props for, I'm just like, cool. Thank you. And it might be because it's like we're years in and I don't want to sound like I'm just like blasé about our position. It's just that it's just we're creating things. And the real moments from it are when we get to meet people at like VidCon and stuff like that. But other than that, it is this weird not real thing for me like 90% of the time.

If I'm not like pushing a Lee Newton or a Joe Beretta and hoping to create something for them, it's just – it's this machine that I'm a part of, which has done very well by me and gives me opportunities. But like a family? That sounds awesome. Like human beings like i was what i found out or what i thought i found out i was like oh i'm not a broken person and i'm not gonna die alone even though i'm gonna raise this thing it'll probably put me in a nursing home you know like that's where my mind went and i don't know i was just like okay real life's happening real life is happening and it's not just this game that i do uh on the internet and. And I think that was where I was like, okay, this is life.

I want to live life and have people around me. Well, we wish you continued success on the business front and on the personal front. And let us know when the babies start coming. Oh, yes. Well, there it was, our conversation with Phil DeFranco. Candid. And how would you describe it? Raw at points there.

Talk about it. The guy has an amazing life. You know, I feel like he wanted to apologize a few times about his story, but, I mean, I had no idea. Maybe I should have, like, read Wikipedia or something before we talked to him. No, that's the fun in having the conversation. And thank you for being a part of it.

We're going to do this again next week. It's another conversation with another person. Can we say who it is? I guess we should be noncommittal. If we know who it is, they may back out after hearing this. It's all lined up, but it will happen. And if for some reason you have not seen any of Phil's work, check out the Philip DeFranco Show on YouTube.

He's also the man behind SourceFed and SourceFed Nerd. You know, go check it out if you haven't. Check it out again if you have. All right. You can hear us next week or see us on other places in the meantime.