Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 1206: From FanGraphs to the Phillies

Episode Date: April 21, 2018

Ben Lindbergh and Jeff Sullivan banter about the strange standings, turnover in the Reds’ dugout, the hot starts by the Red Sox and Mookie Betts, the side effects of pitchers’ increasing avoidance of the strike zone, and the struggles of the Mets’ self-described starting pitcher Matt Harvey. Then they talk to former FanGraphs writer Corinne […]

In the house of the latest get-go Down where the pain's all feeling In the house of hearts within your head I got myself a fine, fine, fine, fine print So I'll be the next take-go And it's on the same damn case Where the parts propelled and attracted Where feelings can stupid on your side

It's reading Sunspots Hello and welcome to episode 1206 of Effectively Wild, the baseball podcast A Fangraphs baseball podcast that brought to you by our Patreon supporters I am Jeff Sullivan of Fangraphs, joined as always by Ben Lindberg of The Ringer Ben, I missed Thursday in baseball. What's happening? Yeah, you and I were just talking before we hit record about how quickly you can feel disconnected from baseball. If you don't follow it for a day and it happens to be a day when there are a lot of games and things happen,

especially if your job is to write about those things, then it can very quickly feel like you are out of touch. Well, some things happened yesterday. We're about to talk to a Philadelphia Phillies employee and friend of ours, Corinne Landry, formerly of Fangraphs and many other sites. She now works for the Phillies front office, and we will ask her about that transition from writing to working for a team the phillies themselves are coming off a pretty good game jake arietta pitched seven shutout innings the phillies won seven nothing that's the latest in phillies land otherwise i think all the teams that were supposed to win one yesterday which has been a rarity this season i see that the red socks are 16 and 2 while the Reds are 3-15.

So there's this sense that it's not entirely true, but we came into the season thinking, okay, we have these contenders and then we have these teams who are not even thinking about winning. And it's like they've gone to the extremes. Like all of them have just kind of gone in one direction or the other

where it's been like almost immediately apparent who's supposed to be a contender and who's just like, we don't care about this season. So I know that's not true. Like the Braves have hit and the Phillies are playing really well and the Tigers aren't as terrible as I expected them to be yet. But I mean, my God, the Reds have been miserable and the Red Sox, they can't lose. They're hitting the crap out of the wall.

Yeah, well, about the Reds, they had something happen yesterday that maybe you missed while you were climbing a mountain. They have a new manager. Did you catch that? I did catch a headline, and I thought, do I want to read this story? I mean, I know it matters, but when you're a rebuilding team, they just recycle managers all the time. So I think you and I are probably on the same page that, at least from our perspective, you can change managers if you want, but it seems like it's a scapegoaty thing and the managers aren't responsible for why the teams are bad and etc. But the teams in the Reds position, they tend to shuffle through managers. I had forgotten that the Astros went through like six managers in six years when they were in a down switch.

I only remember Bo Porter from the down years. I don't remember the other five. But then you bring in a manager when the team is good, and that's that. I was a little surprised that Brian Price lasted this long in the first place. Yeah, right, and pitching coach change too, which you would think that the Reds would have many pitching coach changes given how their pitching has been the last few years.

So, yeah, I mean, I saw plenty of discussion about whether this is scapegoating or not. And it's not even really that interesting a discussion to me because this is just how baseball always has worked and probably always will work. If you are the manager of a lousy team, your job security just isn't going to be that great. There are probably ways in which Brian Price hurt himself, and certainly he's been criticized for the way he's worked with the media, the way he has at times managed in games, and much of the messaging from the Reds front office when they let him go was just kind of about the team's attitude or motivation or fundamentals, and those are things that I can't really assess with any great degree of accuracy. Certainly you could say, why fire him now? What has actually changed since last October? Yes, the Reds are off to a terrible start, but there was no reason to expect them to get off to a strong start. And so from that perspective, it doesn't speak well of the Reds management that they chose to make this move now. But if they felt that he wasn't instilling whatever attitude they want to be instilled,

then I guess I get it. They're not going to be a whole lot better with interim manager Jim Riggleman. I mean, there might be just some regression because they have been really, truly terrible. But let's talk about that real quick. Yeah, well, I mean, the front office didn't do anything to make the team much better this offseason. So it's not as if there was any reason to expect the Reds to be good. Interim manager Jim Riggleman. Do you even need to know the two proper nouns?

Interim manager blank blank. It's always Jim Riggleman. This is the fourth time in his career he's been an interim manager. He was a Padres in 1992, the Mariners in 2008, the Nationals in 2009, and now the Reds in 2018. Jim Riggleman must clearly be the replacement level manager. That's it. He's like the 26th man on the roster. Yeah, if you are a manager, you do not really want Jim Riggleman to be your bench coach or whatever, because it's just inevitable that he is going to take over for you at some point. And of course course he has been a manager, right? And he had that infamous time when he just sort of walked off the job

and there's the Deadspin video of him just kind of out partying or whatever that has been bandied about in the last day or so. But anyway, I guess the weird thing about the Reds is not that they are losing or that they are not pitching, but that they are also not hitting. And I think there was some expectation that at least the offense would be decent this year, and that has not been the case. And even Joey Votto, the most dependable hitter in baseball, perhaps has been not his usual self this year. So I don't know what to make of that or of any of it, but obviously someone was going to be the fall guy.

18 games into the season, the Cincinnati Reds are one of two pitching staffs below replacement level. They're doing it again. Only the Marlins are also down there. The Marlins are at negative 0.1 wins above replacement. The Reds are at negative 0.4, but yeah, I think it obviously on the position player side,

it hurts them that eugenio suarez is on the disabled list that just sucks but also yeah the the vato thing he's had slow starts before he seems like he maybe only has slow starts but that one is as confusing and perplexing as anything that can happen to baseball because if anyone should be automatic it is joey vato so when something is bringing even joey vato then yeah, maybe it is time to get rid of the manager. apparently being thrown in the strike zone. I looked into that. It turns out there was an issue with that stat that was making it look more extreme than it actually is. So the zone rate has not totally changed, but it is as part of a long-term trend declining year after year after year. And you've written about some of the reasons why that's the case individually, Patrick Corbin

or Masiura Tanaka or the Yankees as a whole, just going to this more breaking ball-oriented style. And breaking balls tend to be thrown outside of the strike zone more often than fastballs. So obviously, if you trade a bunch of fastballs for a bunch of breaking balls, you're probably going to throw fewer pitches in the strike zone. And between that and between maybe pitchers avoiding hitters hot zones and being scared of the high home run rates we've seen over the past few years there have been pretty significant declines in zone rate over the last decade or so and the result of that I think

you could say that it's working out fairly well for pitchers for the most part so far this season but it's had some sort of unintended side effects perhaps, and maybe in some ways that don't really benefit baseball fans or spectators. So the upshot of all of these pitches being thrown out of the strike zone, essentially pitchers are just kind of, you know, getting hitters to chase. They're trying to get them to swing at pitches outside the strike zone.

They're nibbling, them to swing at pitches outside the strike zone. They're nibbling, they're throwing waste pitches. Doesn't even really matter anymore to starters necessarily because they're not going to get to face the third time through the order anyway, so they might as well just avoid contact if they can. And so the end result here is that there are more pitches being thrown per plate appearance. We're almost at four pitches per plate appearance. It's the highest on record by a lot. There's been a somewhat slow and steady increase in that over the years, but it's really spiked up over the last few years. We've got another really big increase in strikeout rate. I know we've been talking about like 12 years in a row,

an increase in strikeout rate, but so far this season, it's up so much that it would be the most on record from one year to the next, except for 1945 to 1946 when everyone came back from military service. Walk rate is way up, which is something we were noticing in spring training, but that has held up in the season. In fact, this would be, I think it's the second largest increase in walk rate year to year since 1910 and the largest since 1969 when it happened because the strike zone actually officially changed. So we're just seeing a lot less contact, a lot more waiting for decisive pitches. I'm not really one of the chicken little type baseball commentators who

always thinks that the game is about to be destroyed by whatever the latest change is. But these are changes and they've been happening for a while now and they're getting more extreme and accelerating. And I don't know whether they enhance the spectator experience in any way. And the league, I notice, is also on pace for about 300 more hit batters than last season. That's another thing we both kind of identified happening in spring training, which I didn't think anything of. It's spring training. Maybe that was normal for spring training. No, it's not.

Hit by pitch is way up. I don't know how much it means, but, you know, lots of brawls, which means lots of suspensions, which may be a few concussions, broken fingers. Hit by pitch is bad. Yeah, I don't know whether that's, you know, I would guess that many of those are just sort of people getting hit in the foot or something as pitchers are throwing more and more breaking balls in the dirt. So it would be bad if there were more hit by pitches at a time when fastball velocity is increasing more and more. You could think that that would be something of an injury risk, and it's probably good that the C-flat style helmet has seemed to catch on this season. Everyone's wearing that,

and maybe that has something to do with the fact that it can be more dangerous to be a batter in some ways these days. But yeah, add that to the list of non-contact events that are becoming increasingly common. Sort of non-contact. Well, yes, in a way. There's contact being made.

Contact with the bat. I guess the only thing that gives me pause about, I always love, and I know you all also always love extrapolating these early numbers and looking at how things might be changing, but the only difficulty is that this year it feels like it's been so cold just almost everywhere that, you know, stands to reason that would have some effect on some players, which would then therefore have an effect on the league-wide numbers overall. So you can compare to previous Aprils and Marches if you want to, but realistically, we'll let the weather warm up.

We are powerless to stop the progression of baseball. It will get warmer. Games will continue to be played, which is good for us, and hopefully we won't take too many days off and miss them. But I can tell you one thing that I did learn about Thursday. According to Matt Harvey, Matt Harvey is a starting pitcher. Matt Harvey was defending himself. And there's just a paragraph here.

Given Harvey's recent string of performances, 10 extra base hits in his last 16 innings. That seems bad. Among other indignities, it's becoming increasingly difficult for the Mets to justify keeping him in his current role. All but acknowledging that much late Thursday, manager Mickey Calloway declined to commit to another start for Harvey. That did not sit well with the one-time ace who bristled at the notion that he could be headed to the bullpen or the minors I am a starting pitcher Harvey said I've always been a starting pitcher I think I showed that in the fifth sixth inning I can get people out Matt Harv is not very good anymore no he is for the moment a starting pitcher he's not wrong and the fact that he got to the fifth and sixth inning he can get people out

hitters too not just ordinary people. He could definitely get us out, but he can occasionally get some hitters out. But there's a clip here. It's a picture of Matt Harvey. There's a video. The clip is titled Cabrera's Nice Sliding Stop. So that's a ball that was hit at least three feet away from his dribble, Cabrera. But anyway, you see Matt Harvey looking toward the scoreboard, and it's like a screenshot.

And Harvey is getting out of the inning. It says end of the fifth inning. Mets won. Braves six. Not a very encouraging screenshot. And Harvey is getting out of the inning. It says end of the fifth inning. Mets won. Braves six. Not a very encouraging screenshot for Matt Harvey. But, you know, it's only been so many years since Matt Harvey was like arguably the best pitcher. Now, we know he wasn't Clayton Kershaw, but he was the second best maybe starting pitcher in baseball. And I guess I know that a lot has happened. A lot of people will talk about his maturity,

but mostly, I'm going to guess it's been physical. But Matt Harvey spent very little time at the top. And I wonder how much of that was just health-related misfortune versus how much of that was, I don't know, maybe Harvey wasn't ready to be sustainable up there. But there are so many, I think about Felix Hernandez often, and I think about how at least his peak lasted several years, and now it's just kind of sad the way that people talk about him. I see Mariners fans who just hate him now on Twitter. It's just like, have some perspective here. But Matt Harvey, was he a rookie or a sophomore?

I don't remember exactly what it was, but he was one of those high fastball kind of pitchers he's sort of predated the rise of high fastball success and he just didn't last very long and it's incredible to me that now matt harvey has had more down years than than up years because he was sensational and this was while i was writing about baseball for fangraph so that's within the last half decade that he was unbelievable and now he's's now he's going to lose a rotation spot to Jason Vargas. I know. I remember I was at Baseball Prospectus while the Harvey sensation was happening. And I remember writing about it. And it was really extremely exciting. And he's just not that guy anymore. He's had injuries and he's come out the other side, seemingly with not the same stuff that's something that we talked about on the Mets preview episode and you know in one way I mean things have worked

out extremely well for the Mets they've had zero starts from anyone other than their big five pitchers which is exactly what you want and has a lot to do with why they've played well but some of those guys are not those guys anymore or at least harvey isn't wheelers look pretty good mats has looked pretty good but as we talked about on that preview sometimes you go from being either injured or great to being healthy ostensibly but just not that good anymore because you've lost something and it seems like that's where harvey is these days yeah it's sad you you think about how much work goes into developing a player, making sure everything is firing.

And Harvey in 2012, 2013, even 2015 was just a very, very good pitcher, but he's lost three or four miles per hour off his best stuff. He still throws the same pitches. He still looks like Matt Harvey in more ways than one, but it's just not there anymore. And you think how much work goes into building players and teams that just for whatever reason, fall apart for reasons that might not even be up to them. And it just has to be so frustrating that you can build something to be so good. And you

think we did it. We made a guy into an ace for a year. And then we have to find a new one. Thankfully, Noah Syndergaard came along, but then he got hurt. But anyway, this isn't a Mets biography. Yeah. By the way, I just found the article I wrote at Baseball Perspectives about Matt Harvey at the end of his first calendar year. This was July 2013. I looked up the pitchers who had the highest wins above replacement over their first calendar years, and Harvey ranked 10th since 1950, which was as far back as baseball prospectuses were or warp went. So, you know, top of the list were guys like Herb Score, Dwight Gooden, Mark Pryor, Gary Nolan, Roy Oswalt, Hideo Nomo, some stories there that had happy endings and some that did not.

And so here was the last paragraph of that piece. I am now quoting myself, which is a pompous thing to do. We know Harvey has the repertoire to sustain his success, so the question is how long he'll hold on to his stuff. Advances in training techniques, nutrition, and medical care, plus a more enlightened attitude toward pitcher usage make it less likely that he'll suffer the same fate as some of the less fortunate fast starters, but it's far from certain that he has a long list of accolades ahead of him.

We often point out that pitching prospects are unpredictable, but to a lesser degree, the same can be said of phenoms who've already experienced some serious big league success. Here's hoping that Harvey is one of the lucky ones. Right now, not really looking like he is. Two things I meant to mention. You mentioned the cold. It is, according to Rob Arthur, who did a little research for me and for my recent article. It is on average seven degrees colder so far this season at game time than it was last season. So that is somewhat significant. And also about managerial firings, there was an article at BP by Rob Maines on Thursday, and he was responding to something he had heard someone say on the radio about how the average tenure for managers has really come down.

And that is the opposite of the case. First of all, I think Brian Price was the first in-season MLB managerial firing in two years, something like that. It's been a while. And Rob looked back. He didn't look at every year, but he kind of looked back by decade. So like 2008, But he kind of looked back by decade, so like 2008, 1998, 1988, etc., back to the 60s, I think, and he found that the average tenure of MLB managers can sort of see why that would be the case. We're about to talk to Corinne about the relationship between the Phillies front office and Gabe Kapler. And there is a real relationship there and a mutual reliance there that you don't necessarily want to start from scratch with someone else because there's just a whole lot of kind of history there that can be helpful. And so I think probably teams are maybe putting more care into hiring managers and managers are just being more tightly integrated into the framework of how baseball teams work.

Now, on the one hand, you could say they're more disposable because they're not making as many decisions. They don't have as much authority, but they're also kind of, you know, cogs in this machine that if you remove them, you have to train a new cog, I guess. And so that can be kind of onerous. Dehumanizing. You're all cogs. Yes. But yeah, I had no idea. We all are. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. It's important. Remind yourself. And also, Ben, remember, are you working today? You're going to do some work after this? Yeah, sort of. Yeah, remember that one day you're going to die. Thank you. I will be better at my work as a result.

Last thing, you have a chat to get to, but there was a very silly debate that went on in the baseball internet this week about Mookie Betts versus Mike Trout. I don't think that's a debate anyone needs to have, but the Red Sox are doing fantastically well. Mookie Betts is doing fantastically well. Coming into this season, I would have had Mookie Betts on an extremely short list of the best players in baseball, but you wrote about Mookie. He's been amazing. He is even better now, potentially.

So Mookie Betts is the current league leader in WRC+. Pick a hitting statistic. He's at or near the top. Mookie Betts is the current league leader in WRC+. Pick a hitting statistic. He's at or near the top. Now, the top five in WRC+, are Reese Hoskins, Aaron Judge, Bryce Harper, Mookie Betts, and Dede Gregorius. So who really knows what we're doing here? Jed Lowry is number nine.

But Mookie Betts has been amazing. He's sensational. He's always had really quick hands. That's what people have always said. Also, his neuro-scouting is through the roof. Unbelievable neuro-scouting. But Mookie Betts, so far, for someone so talented, he's always been terrible going the other way, which kind of has continued to catch me off guard.

I always expect him to just be a good pure hitter to all fields, but he's awful to the opposite field, and he's amazing to the pole side. Since he came up, he's had the widest spread between pole side and opposite field success as a hitter. So what's happened this year is he is pulling everything, which sounds like it's maybe too much, but it works out for him great. And he's pulling everything, and he's pulling everything in the air, which is exactly what Mookie Betts needs to do to be successful. I don't know.

It's hard to tell if he's changed anything about his swing or his approach, but he's swinging more aggressively early in counts, and he's just looking for balls that he can pull and pull in the air. And for whatever reason, he's been able to do it so often that he's just clobbering the ball. He's hit six home runs. He's got eight doubles. He homered again on Thursday.

I'm given to understand he homered three times in that game against the Angels, which Shohei Otani started and did not last very long in. But as long as Mookie Betts is able to pull the ball with consistency and pull the ball in the air, I can't think of many reasons that you could get him out. Because even though I know he's relatively little, he has this approach that reminds me a lot of Jose Bautista at his peak, where he was just pulling everything in the air,

and there was one little area on the outside corner where maybe you could get him out, but good luck. Good luck pitching to that area all the time. Yeah, well, the Red Sox didn't hit for power last year, and it was weird that they didn't, but that was never going to be the case this year with bounce backs expected from Betts and Bogarts and Gini Martinez. And as you've noted, the lineup has also changed its approach and its philosophy,

and they're swinging and being much more aggressive at pitches in the strike zone early in the count, almost more so than any other team in baseball. So that has helped too. They've been pretty impressive. If they weren't the favorites at the beginning of the season, they certainly are now in the AL East. So you have a chat to get to.

We will take a quick break, and you and I in the past but also the future will talk to Corinne Landry, quantitative analyst for the Philadelphia Phillies. And the last thing I will point out in the middle of this transition is that in his most recent start, this is a few days ago, but Brian Mitchell won six innings, walked three batters, but he struck out four, which is a greater number than his first three starts combined. It lifts his season walk and strikeout numbers to 17 and seven. Brian Mitchell is on the up and up. Yeah, that is a positive strikeout to walk ratio in one day at least. All right. We'll be right back. All right, so today we are excited to be joined by maybe a familiar name to many of you listeners,

but Corinne Landry, a current quantitative analyst for the Philadelphia Phillies. All right, so today we are excited to be joined by maybe a familiar name to many of you listeners, but Corinne Landry, a current quantitative analyst for the Philadelphia Phillies. So, Corinne, hi, how are you? Hey, thanks so much for having me on. Great to be here. Very excited. And when you talk to people who, you know, you're distant family members, friends, how do you explain the job that it is that you do?

That's a really good question, and it's not always easy. But basically what I do is I look at underlying stats and data to help support the decision makers in the baseball operations department. So that can be, you know, the traditional ones that you think of, the general manager, or helping our coaches, player development staff, scouts, making the best decisions possible. And for anyone who isn't already familiar with you, could you offer some background? Because you used to be a very frequent writer in the public baseball sphere. So in how many places did you write about the Phillies and baseball at large? Oh, geez. So the places I wrote the most were Crashburn Alley. That's where I started a sabermetrically inclined Phillies blog. I also wrote for Hardball Times, Fangraphs, FanRag, and MLB.com. And I'm sure some other places that I'm forgetting, but those were the big ones.

So I'm curious about how you feel about working for a team that you grew up following and rooting for Because I kind of did that too when I worked for the Yankees briefly I grew up in New York, I was a Yankees fan And I think a lot of people assume that that would be a perfect fit That that makes all the sense in the world Of course you would want people who have some affection for that team, working for that team But I think within baseball there's often some affection for that team, working for that team. But I think within baseball, there's often some suspicion about that or people kind of have their guard up because

they think, oh, you just want to work for this team because you're a fan of the team and you're going to be just the super fan in the office, that sort of thing. So I was always sort of wary of not kind of showing my fandom in any way. And it kind of worked out because I just sort of wary of not kind of, you know, showing my fandom in any way. And it kind of worked out because I just sort of lost it in the traditional sense anyway, while I was working there. And then while I was writing as well. Yeah, it's, um, I won't lie, there are moments when it's a little bit surreal. Probably, oddly enough, the most starstruck I've been, if that's the right word, was probably when I bumped into Chris Wheeler, a longtime Phillies broadcaster. And for me, that's just kind of surreal because it's someone that you grew up listening to every single day. He was a part of my daily life.

And this realization that he has no idea who I am. And I spent how many hours essentially hanging out with him watching baseball. So there are moments like that. But I think when you walk through the door to the office, it's a different world. And you're still a fan, in a sense, which is something that I enjoy about working for the team as opposed to writing is I have a very vested rooting interest in the game and in our players doing well. And so I really enjoy having that aspect to my baseball life again. But yeah, you kind of naturally just adjust to your surroundings. And you want to step back and enjoy the cool moments when they pop up. But mostly, it's just day to day, a new world that you're living in. A question that I know Ben gets a lot, that I get a lot, that maybe you get quite a lot is coming from baseball fans, usually younger, maybe college age baseball fans is I want to work in baseball. How do you work in baseball? So if you could, could you speak to your experience of what was it like? Did you reach out to the Phillies? Did the Phillies reach out to you? What was your experience of transitioning from the public sphere into the private teamwork? Yeah. So for me, the Phillies reached out to me with an opportunity

to apply for an internship. And so I took that opportunity and obviously landed that internship gig, which was a full year, full-time internship, but it had an end date. So it was not the dream job offer, but it was the dream opportunity. And it was kind of my, I wouldn't expect an opportunity like that to come along again. So I took it and with the mindset to get as much out of that opportunity as I could, knowing that an end date was on the table. Fortunately for me, I was in a position where the Phillies front office has been expanding and they're hiring. So I was able to

transition to a full-time role at the end of the season and started my full-time gig in October of last year. So the timing was right. I was fortunate. As far as advice for people, I think we went through the hiring process in our R&D group this past fall. And the thing that makes candidates stand out the most, in my opinion, is when they have examples of their work or examples of the type of work they want to do that they can point to. And it's easier to say than to do because you don't really know what's going on

with the organization that you're applying to work for. But having something that shows you ways in which you can contribute really, really makes you stand out from a lot of very impressive resumes and and inventing new stats and all of that. So have you sort of shifted more toward that side of things since you started working for the Phillies? Or have you been able to carve out a role just sort of with the skills that you already had? Yeah, I think in our department, we have a very strong mix of skills and abilities. So, you know, areas that aren't strengths for me, you know, my my coworkers are able to kind of balance that out. my coworkers are able to kind of balance that out.

But I think the biggest thing throughout my first year here was absolutely a baseball education in R&D and picking up coding skills. For me, SQL and R, some of our analysts use Python. But for me, focusing on that, and it's something that helps me do my job better, and I try to work on that, but also baseball in in general so as a general baseball ops intern last year I was really fortunate to have the opportunities to to work with other areas of baseball operations and pick the brains of our scouts I went to scout school I followed your example Ben and you know had a wonderful education

out there talking with our player development guys, with our major league coaching staff. So just there's so many more sources of information here than there necessarily is, you know, writing in the public sphere. So learning wherever I can and really growing as a, you know, just a baseball person, I think, is a real focus of mine. And since Gabe Kapler came around, have you had a continuing education in avocados? I try not to talk about food with a cap. So what was when you were nearing the end or approaching the end of your year-long internship contract, and then you were starting to have the conversation about going full-time and no longer being a contracted intern. How did that progress?

How was that conversation? Yeah. So I started thinking about it. So I started in January and my end date was in December. And so in June, I started having conversations with my supervisor, just, you know, what does the process look like? How should I be looking to apply for gigs for next year and things like that? And was encouraged to kind of wait until the end

of the season. And fortunately, at the very end of the season, my R&D director, you know, made me an offer and I was in no position to decline. I was thrilled to accept it's a wonderful environment here. I feel incredibly fortunate. So it was a very easy decision for me, fortunately. here. I feel incredibly fortunate. So it was a very easy decision for me, fortunately. So how have you weighed the opportunity to work for a team versus what you were doing and having a lot of success doing writing? Is that something that you miss? Because Jeff and I get that question a lot. Do you want to work for a team? Would you work for a team? No one is trying to get me to work for a team. People are trying to get Jeff occasionally to work for a team But that hasn't happened

And I think we both enjoy a lot of things about this career and this lifestyle And so I started out wanting to work for a team Ended up not wanting to work for a team But I still see what the appeal of it is So is there still a pull for you in any other area? Or are you fully committed for the long haul? Yeah. So working for a team is not something that ever occurred to me. I majored in music education. I taught high school band for three years after college. So I can't overstate the degree to which

working in baseball was not a focus of mine, but it was kind of, it's the dream that you never really admit that you have. I didn't admit it to others because I never really admitted it to myself. So when the opportunity presented itself and in the past year, it's been fantastic. And I don't really have any regrets. I don't really see myself transitioning back to writing or the public sphere. But that's not to say that there aren't things that I don't really see myself transitioning back to writing or the public sphere. But that's not to say that there aren't things that I don't miss. I miss the wealth of knowledge that's out there and the good writing and just the connections you're able to make with people across the baseball writing thing. Here I've got my colleagues and we talk about what's going on in baseball.

And we still obviously have very strong opinions, but we kind of keep it in house. And the ability to talk to whomever is out there is something that is just a wonderful aspect of the baseball community. And it's definitely something that I miss on a daily basis. I understand that given that you were recording this from the Phillies literal front office, that maybe you can't. Maybe you might have a little biased opinion on this one. But when you were going into working for a baseball team versus your actual experience, I know that one of the greatest concerns I've always had about the potential of working for a team is thinking about the, you know, the quality of life, the freedom

that you get during the week, all the standard concerns of being, I don't know if it's overworked, but just worked heavily and consistently to the extreme. So how has your experience on a day-to-day week-to-week basis of working for a baseball team in a pretty mid-level important job compared to what you expected before you knew what it was going to be about? Interesting question. You know, I think that my expectations have been pretty well met. You know, I'm in a position where I'm not married, I don't have kids, and I'm very focused on my job right now. So with that said, I still feel like I have a solid work-life balance. And I think that it's something that, you know, we focus on as a front office. I think it's important to us to make sure that we're not burning out and that we have time to stay fresh and to produce our best product, which is only possible if we're taking care of ourselves. I don't know if that's an answer at all. I think that we work hard and

especially now that the season starts, we just started a homestand and I'll be spending a lot of time at the ballpark the next week and a half, but it's time at the ballpark. So it's great. It's hard to complain about hanging around after work to watch a baseball game. Yeah, that's something that I talk to a lot of people who are in fields where they do something that they really love doing. And so they put a lot of hours in and there is the potential for that to hurt them in some way. And so you want to be careful that the company or whatever is not demanding that they do that. But you just find, whether I'm talking to people who work in baseball or people who even make video games, and they have these periods of crunch where they're just working really long days and not getting days off.

And yet they're working on something they really love. And they want the product, whatever that is, whether it's a video game or a baseball team, to be as good as it possibly can be. And so they end up kind of devoting their own energies to the thing, even if it's not really coming from above. even if it's not really coming from above. So it's kind of a tough thing where you don't want anyone to be overworked, but people overwork themselves because it doesn't necessarily always feel like work if they're doing something that they love doing. Yeah, absolutely. So I wanted to ask about the evolution of the front office

to the extent that you can talk about it, because you've been there now, I guess, for the majority of the current regime. And I'm sure that since you started, there have been many changes just in terms of the size of the department and the way it works and the infrastructure and now certainly working with a new field staff and Gabe Kapler. So in whatever level of detail you can provide, how have things changed and improved since you started? Yeah, I think the biggest change is just the quantity of people. We've made a lot of hirings. And for me, it's been the strength I see in that is something that we focus on is getting positive

streams of information. You want to have the most complete information possible when you're making decisions. And I think that Matt Klintak has done a really wonderful job of, you know, building out our department in ways where we're generating the best possible information for ultimately for him to make decisions. So, yeah, just growing out and identifying areas where we can get better information, I think, has been a real focus and one that we've addressed well. I know this is probably a hard question to try to come up with an answer to, but with your position, you would be constantly offering research, new ideas, new suggestions. You're also one of several people who work in the front office and not every decision is going to be maybe agreed with or maybe not every idea is going to be implemented or even executed properly.

So given that you have a somewhat direct but still not playing surface kind of relationship to the product on the field, has there been for you some sort of like most personally fulfilling moment where you've seen maybe something, maybe a transaction or maybe something on the field where you think, yeah, if it weren't for me, maybe that wouldn't have happened? I think one of the key moments in our department last year was we did some work looking at a relief pitcher, Adam Morgan. And I don't know that the recommendations really had anything to do with with his turnaround. I think he generated that through his own hard work and through our pitching coaches. But, you know, having some role in in the process in helping him, you know, figure out how to take the next step and then seeing the production that he's had on

the field has been rewarding. According to Baseball Reference, Adam Morgan's nickname is Amo. Does anybody call him Amo? Not that I've ever heard. So how has having Gabe Kepler around changed the way the front office works or interacts with the field staff, with the people in the dugout? I don't know what that relationship was like before, but obviously you have someone who is hungry for every bit of information and avocados and is also just willing to try things that are non-traditional. So how has that changed

your workflow or the workflow of the front office as a whole? Yeah, I think it's fair to say that our department is more involved on a daily level with what's going on with the major league coaching staff than we were when Pete was here. The thing that's great about Kapler is exactly what you said. He wants information, and he will ask questions or be willing to listen to any different ideas. He will ask questions or be willing to listen to any different ideas. And so it's a positive environment, I think, and an exciting environment to generate products that is impacting the decision making for him on a daily basis. So I don't know how much reading about baseball you do in your present job. Maybe it's a lot more than ever.

Maybe it's a lot less than ever. You have plenty of work to do on your own. But, own, but you might read the sites where you used to write. But how often do you find, now that you are from a position of more understanding, more knowledge of what's actually happening, how often do you find yourself reading something and wishing that you could just reach out and say, no, no, this is not true or not correct? Do you feel like the fillies, or at least the things that you know about are covered for the most part properly or do you just find yourself stewing from time to time? I think it's more rare than you would think. There's a lot of brilliant writers out there.

Maybe part of that is just the self-selection in what I'm reading. I tend to read smart people. I do read the sites that I wrote for, right? I read Van Graffs and Crash Bernoulli. And I think that, you know, their approach is one that I understand. And there are some information gaps, but, you know, I don't think it's as extreme as you might expect. I think for the most part, the work that's being done in the public sphere is really on point. And, you know, there's a ton of information that is driving public baseball research. And it's a valuable part of our daily life, frankly, it's a valuable part of our process as baseball people. Was there kind of a, an eye opening moment or orientation when you started

working for the Phillies? And this was, I guess, about a year or so after Matt Klentik was hired, maybe a little more, and you were just an intern at that point, so maybe you weren't privy to everything. But was there sort of a point where you came in and you just learned a lot of things all at once that you hadn't known or maybe hadn't believed or hadn't thought existed? Or has it just been kind of a gradual revelation of insights? I would say it's definitely been more, more of the latter. Um, just kind of gradually, uh, building information and learning what's available. You know, we do have some, some really wonderful resources in house that I definitely wish I had when I was writing, you know, some things are a little bit more streamlined than the kind of piecemeal way

you put things together as a writer. But, you know, it's been pretty gradual. One of the things that I've come to understand from people I know who go to work in baseball is that their relationships with other people change. You know, the instant that you start to work for a team, then either you have a more, a lighter baseball conversation with people who aren't in the game, or maybe you cut off communication entirely with people who work for other teams. So you wrote about baseball in several places. You'd formed some number of closer or more acquaintance relationships with other writers, and some of those people work for teams now. So do you, how often do you find yourself in communication or maybe even thinking of like some sort of rivalry between your team and like a team that a friend of yours happens to work for somewhere else? I mean, it'd be great to, to beat Dave Cameron's Padres,

but no, I think it's, you know, your, your personal relationships, the ones that matter extend beyond your baseball connection. And, you know, I've tried to remain connected to people I've met through baseball, but absolutely the nature of our conversations is different than it used to be. And I miss it to a certain extent. There are definitely people that I miss talking baseball with, but still try to keep in my life. How does a front office know if it's a good front office? This is, I mean, it's kind of a complicated question, but I would think that many front offices think that they are above average front offices. And of course they can't all be, but you can't really get that great an insight into what other teams are

doing, except I suppose if someone who used to work there maybe moves to your team and is able to share some information in some way that is not privileged. So it's tough because you can't really talk to people who work for other front offices and everyone's secretive and you're all kind of doing things in your own silos and, you know, probably some much about what other teams are doing. But it's not something that we really talk about beyond just we want to be good. And so what are the best practices for us as an organization? And so what makes a good front office is a fantastic question. And I don't think that there's an answer. there's an answer. But one thing that I think can give you some insight is you think about a good front office and how they have so many different types of baseball people from the R&D department to, you know, the lifers and scouting to, you know, your coaching staff. And with so many baseball

minds coming from different perspectives, If there's an ability to work together and to be on the same page, people are generally positive about the direction that you're heading. I think that gives you some insight that you're on the right track. So from the outside, and you, I'm sure, remember this pretty well, but there's a strong element of what seems to be randomness or just noise in the baseball results. And of course, it's the results that people care about far, far more than anything else. You talk about, you know, variation from base runs record Pythagorean, or this team is overperforming, or these projections aren't right, or whatever you want to say. But now that you have moved to

the other side, do you have a different perspective on sort of the relationship between things happening by design and things happening by randomness? Because I know I've talked to some baseball people, like even this year, where they've talked about this whole really detailed plan they've maybe had for a pitcher. And they were excited going into the spring. And then all of a sudden that pitcher gets hurt and misses the season. And that just seems like it's got to be really frustrating. of the season. And that just seems like it's got to be really frustrating. But do you find that there is more signal in the baseball results than maybe you thought before? Or is there just an unmistakable strong element of randomness that you can't do anything about? I mean, I think that we're

all very much aware that randomness plays a part. And I think for me, the biggest difference now is an awareness that randomness not only plays a part in our results, but can have direct impacts on people's employment. And so being sensitive to that and understanding that results matter and have a direct impact on your organization, I think, just kind of heightens the awareness and the search for ways to overcome that randomness. just kind of heightens the awareness and the search for ways to overcome that randomness. Is there a different mood in the office at all these days now that the Phillies are playing well, are expected to play well? Many people were picking them as a surprise team or a team that was really on the rise this spring, as opposed to the last couple of years when you've worked there and you could kind of see it coming together and there was a long-term plan perhaps, but in the short term, the team wasn't really contending. I mean, could you notice, is there anything perceptible in the office, in the mood of people or how you're

following the team that is different now that the team has started to transition into this period where hopefully the things that you've all been doing for the past few years have kind of come to fruition? Sure. So I missed the kind of, I guess, the darkest days, you can say. For me, starting January 2017 through last year, I think to now, there's definitely a sense of positivity that's been consistent. But, you know, I think it's fair to say that there's more excitement when the team is doing well. And it was a very exciting offseason for us. And I think spring training had a very different feel this year than it did a year ago. And so far, it's been fun to see the results. Do you think God could throw a pitch that Reese Hoskins couldn't hit or take for a ball?

Not a chance. I wanted to ask about the, you alluded to this being an exciting offseason. And I guess for the first time in your tenure, the Phillies were really big players for prominent free agents. And so when the office was kind of mobilizing to provide information or input about Carl Santana or Jake Arrieta, I mean, I'm sure that you were one of many people offering input and doing work related to those moves. But from your perspective, how did, I guess, the team effort play a part in those signings as opposed to maybe some of the more minor transactions that had happened previously? Yeah, I think there's a very diligent approach to those kinds of signings. And everyone is well aware of the money invested in these deals. And fortunately, we have an ownership that is very supportive of investing money when appropriate. So I think that the decision makers

take that responsibility very seriously. And so gathering information from all possible sources, including our efforts in the R&D department, was part of the process in those major signings. for it under the the sort of newer regime one of the things that's come up time and time and time again is just how much of like a family feel the front office feels like as a whole that the organization is just warm and accommodating and i don't know loving even just like across the board supportive and you think of how you might picture like a an analytical first front office for some other baseball organization you think you know unfeeling robots like you do but the Phillies seem to have built just this network of really strong relationships so the softball question builds on that but essentially has has this been your experience when you were coming in did you expect to receive the sort of support and familial feel that it sounds like you and pretty much everyone else has received?

Yeah. So growing up a Phillies fan, there's this sense that there's a family feel to the Phillies organization. And joining the front office, I kind of figured I'd find out the real story. But it's true. It's a fantastic group of people, you know, beyond just baseball operations, but throughout the front office. And it's something that is really important to the organization to maintain. And people think about it, keep it in mind during hiring processes to make sure that this is someone that fits culturally and will, you know, be another positive source of energy in the front office. You know, I'll say that my very first day, my boss, Scott Friedman, took me around the baseball operations department and introduced

me to everybody. And so we kind of walked around here. Then all the way down the hall is where Andy McPhail, the president, is. And we got down to his office and he was on the phone. So I didn't meet him then and came back to my workspace and about an hour later Andy stuck his head in and said hey Corinne I just wanted to meet you and it's like you know Andy McPhail taking five minutes out of his day to introduce himself to an intern on on her first day is just a wonderful thing and it's something that organizations should be doing I suppose but you don't expect them to be doing it and something that organizations should be doing, I suppose, but you don't expect them to be doing it. And that's the kind of the personal touch that you find in the affiliates

organization. So maybe one more, you kind of touched on this when you were giving us the Adam Morgan example, but it does seem that more and more in recent years, front office focus has shifted, or at least shifted to encompass player development as much as player evaluation or player procurement. That there is this sense that a lot of players have maybe latent talent that hasn't been fully unlocked yet and that you can unlock that with the right change to a swing or a pitch design or throwing a certain pitch more often, that sort of thing. So has there been a lot of focus on that player development aspect and in trying to get more out of the players that you currently have in maybe a more analytical way than would have been typical in the past? Yeah, I think that we are absolutely focusing on all the different ways in which we can dispense the information that the R&D department is turning out into all facets of baseball operations. So it's

an exciting time, and especially with the department growing right now, it's something that I think that we're probably still feeling out. But any way in which our information can help our players, whether it's helping identify players for the amateur draft or helping our minor leaguers make those adjustments and unlock that untapped potential or helping Kapler and the major league staff. I think we're investigating it all and learning and improving as we go. And also, Jeff and I spend a lot of time talking about player evaluation, about projections, maybe about prospect evaluations, that sort of thing. There's probably an area in which each team knows more about its own players than anyone else does. And each team, of course, has its own projection system or some form of projection system. Do you think that those are meaningfully better than what Jeff and I are forced to use? Is there a way to tell? Is there testing that's conducted to say, yes, this is X much better than Pocota or whatever projection system you want to name? Or is it just kind of about every team doing its own thing in the way that it thinks best and hopefully adding some

information. But in the end, they can't all be better than the public systems. I'm just curious about what the difference is or how much effort goes into assessing what the difference is. Yeah, I don't think there's huge gains to be made over what's publicly available. Obviously, huge gains to be made over what's publicly available. You know, obviously, we have easier access to information than what the public systems are relying on. But yeah, I mean, it's hard. You know, projecting baseball players is not easy. And, you know, so many weird things happen in baseball that it's a part of the puzzle, but will never be complete picture. Well, normally we would wrap up by telling you where you can read Corinne and where you can follow her and find her. And the answer is nowhere because everything she does is

property of the Philadelphia Phillies and too bad for all of us. But thank you for coming on and sharing what you could. Well, you can come out to a game at a citizens bank park. Yes, you can do that. We'll hopefully warm up soon. Thanks so much. As one of, one of my regrets in my writing career was not getting a chance to go on effectively wild.

So I appreciate you, you helping me finally get there. You did go on the ringer MLB show once briefly. I did. All right. So now you've crossed off both Ben Lindbergh podcasts. All right. Well, thanks. It's been a pleasure. All right. Thank you, guys. Thank you very much. That will do it for today. And also for this week, you can support this podcast. Make sure

that we have many more weeks by going to patreon.com slash effectively wild. Five listeners who have already pledged their support on Patreon include Ariel Levenbook, Harold Walker, Duncan Lejtenyi, Joseph Blumenthal, and Will Hickman. Thanks to all of you. You can join our Facebook group at facebook.com slash groups slash Effectively Wild, active even on weekends. You can rate and review and subscribe to Effectively Wild on iTunes. Thank you to Dylan Higgins for his editing assistance. Please keep your questions and comments coming for me and Jeff via email at podcast at fangrass.com or via the Patreon messaging system.

My inbox is pinging all day with messages from you and it's nice to see that the audience is so engaged in that way. We try to answer as often as possible, whether via email or on the show. So we hope that you have a wonderful weekend and we will be back, of course, early next week. Sometimes it snows in April

Sometimes I feel so bad, so bad Sometimes I wish that life was never ending But all good things they say never last