Effectively Wild: A FanGraphs Baseball Podcast - Effectively Wild Episode 2061: Preseason Team Goals, Revisited

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

Ben Lindbergh and Meg Rowley banter about precedents for 50-year-old Bartolo Colon retiring as a Met, whether it’s better for a player to go out on top or be humbled a bit before the end, the ramifications of the Rays’ deal for a new ballpark in St. Petersburg, whether each team is on track to […]

Well, it's moments like these that make you ask, how can you not be pedantic about baseball? If baseball were different, how different would it be? On the case with light rippin', all analytically. Cross-check and compile, find a new understanding. Not effectively, why the can you not be pedantic? Yes, when it comes to baseball, how can you not be pedantic? Yes, when it comes to baseball, how can you not be pedantic? Hello and welcome to episode 2061 of Effectively Wild, a Fangraphs baseball podcast brought to

you by our Patreon supporters. I'm Meg Rowley of Fangraphs, and I am joined as always by Ben Lindberg of The Ringer. Ben, how are you? Not bad. How are you? I am fine. How are you? Not bad. How are you? I am fine. All right. Eventful intro, as always.

And so we will move on to the banter portion of the podcast. I did have one observation about big, sexy Bartolo Colon, who retired as a member of the Mets this past weekend. And you might say, Bartolo Colon wasn't retired already? No, not officially. This is part of the tradition of baseball players and athletes in general, retiring long after I think everyone else assumed that they were retired. Sometimes athletes are maybe the last to know that they're retired or the last to accept it. And then they'll announce, hey, I'm retiring. And we all say, oh, I thought you already did.

Okay, congrats. Anyway, Bartolo Colon retired as a mat. There was a pregame ceremony. He threw out the first pitch. He got a jersey, et cetera, et cetera. I think this has got to be the oldest former player to have a retirement ceremony like this. I challenge any listeners, a retirement ceremony like this. I challenge any listeners, invite any listeners to find an example of someone older than Colon having the official retirement announcement, because typically you will announce your retirement shortly after you stop playing. Bartolo Colon has not pitched in the majors since 2018. He subsequently pitched in the Dominican and Mexico, but it's been a while, right? And honestly, I don't remember the 2017 portion of Colon's career when he pitched for Atlanta and Minnesota. So he had an eight plus ERA and 63 innings for the Braves, and then a 5-plus ERA and 80 innings for the Twins.

And then in 2018, he had a near 6 ERA and almost 150 innings for the Rangers. So you kind of remember him as a Met at the tail end, and I guess that's how he wants to be remembered. But he had that little journeyman phase there at the end. But he just said, hey, the fans in New York, they get me. I had a great time here. He spent more time and won more games in Cleveland and in Anaheim than he did with the Mets. But he wants to go down as a Met. OK, great. Usually, though, athletes will retire sooner after their

last playing year. Right. And also, if they don't, if there is a several-year gap between when they last played and when they officially retire, it's usually because they were younger than Bartolo Colon when they last played. And so they could at least maintain the fiction. They could talk themselves into thinking, I could get back out there, right? Whereas Bartolo Colon was in his age 45 season the last time he was in the majors, and he is now 50 years old. So I don't know that anyone past 50 has ever done the, okay, I'm announcing my retirement. I'm done now. I'm trying to think.

I mean, I'm also trying to think of, you know, we have some current players that depending on how loosey-goosey with their own timelines they want to be could challenge for this idea, right? But it would take a little bit of doing. Yeah, I can't. I don't know. Some of it is probably like a natural kinship with the team and the fan base that he feels. Do you think that every team would have let the shirt say big sexy? Do you think every team would have been like, yeah, all right, Bartolo, we got you. Maybe not, yeah.

Yeah, I feel like there's bound to be a prudish – the Royals wouldn't have let him do that. I mean, it wouldn't have fit for a number of reasons anyway. But, like, they probably would have been like – you put an asterisk where the X is or something. Yeah, yeah, it's true. He fit in. The people loved him. He had some of his memorable moments. Obviously, he hit his home run as a Met, which if he were going to be a member of the Hall of Fame, then that would have toer down the line with the Mets. So yeah, he didn't win his Cy Young with the Mets. He won a pennant with the Mets. But really, those two plays and the home run, I mean, that's what everyone remembers about him. That was in a Mets uniform. Like Adam Jones, for instance, also just retired as an Oriole. And that was nice, right? He signed the traditional

one-day contract and there were some pregame festivities. Adam Jones is only 38 years old. He last played in the majors in 2019 and he has been active as recently as 2021. He was playing in NPB, right? So that's kind of an example of, okay, he's still in his 30s. Or Jose Bautista earlier this year did the, I think, the one-day contract retire as a Blue Jay thing. And Jose Bautista is 42, right? And he's been out of the game, I guess, about as long as Bartol has, but was younger, right? So sometimes it's just like

they don't get around to it for a while. And sometimes I'll be very surprised to read that so-and-so retired. And I I'll be very surprised to read that so and so retired. And I would have assumed that that happened long ago. But the thing is, when there is a long gap, like Bernie Williams, my favorite player as a kid, he last played in the majors in 2006. And he didn't officially retire until 2015. There's a very long period in there where he was not playing. He was clearly done, but he hadn't filed the papers. And ultimately he did maybe just because the Yankees were about to retire his number. And it was like, can't retire his number unless he is retired. So that was an unusually long gap, But he was 46 at the time, even so.

Yeah. So 50 is a very advanced age. Obviously, Colon played to an advanced age, but you'd think that if you played to that advanced an age, that would mean the turnaround would be quicker. Right. Yeah. Because you're like, no, I'm really quite done. Right. Exactly.

I'm really quite done. Right. Exactly. It's like Julio Franco, for instance, played until he was even older than Cologne, but he officially retired or announced his retirement when he was 49. He subsequently played professionally internationally. So I guess he's sort of unretired. Jamie Moyer, I don't think he has retired officially. I don't think he has retired officially. I mean, he may have signed the papers and done the paperwork, but I don't think, at least from quick Googling, that he has announced his retirement. He's done other things. He's been a broadcaster. He's 60 years old. But I don't know if he at any point, even when he was 50 and he hadn't pitched for a couple of years, he said he hadn't closed the door on coming back. Maybe he still hasn't. I actually would prefer that he never officially announces retirement. Yeah, but he's in the Mariners Hall of Fame. So, like, I think, you know, you know, like, I was there, Ben. I was there the day it happened.

I just, it would be, it would sure be something. It would be, I mean, honestly, it would be cool for him to say that he is officially retired and then come out of retirement and try to come back. Like, that would be, I think, even cooler. And then, like, Rich Hill's just probably going to still be pitching by then. You know, he's just going to be pitching.

The Padres placed him on waivers and no one claimed him. But we claim him in our hearts on waivers. We hearts on Weavers. We always would. We say, hey, Rich, how you doing? Yeah. But I feel like if and when Rich Hill stops pitching, he seems like the type to just say I'm done now and maybe just announce that he's retired.

Like he's clearly been talking about it and thinking about it for a while. So I don't know if he'll string us along for several years. Who knows? Maybe he will. Anyway, if anyone can beat Bartolo's 50, and I mean for like an official retirement announcement slash ceremony slash doing the I'm retiring with this team or the one day contract deal, that's what I'm talking about here. Not like someone finally tracks someone down and says, hey, are you retired? Oh, yeah. I should have mentioned that several years ago. Yes, I've been retired

for a while, but like an official festivity of sorts. I think this is pretty advanced for that, but that fits with Bartolo's career. So this actually made me think, how would you prefer your favorite player to go out because last week we talked about zach granke and how at least win loss wise he's had a lousy perhaps last season as has adam wainwright who's trying valiantly to get to his 200th win but would you prefer that a player whose career you enjoyed go out on top or hit rock bottom the way that Wade Wright has. Not that it has to be either or, but say you have a Mike Messina or a David Ortiz who pitches or hits so well in their final season that you think, wow, this is great. I got to see

them at the top of their game, even at the end. Never saw them slump, never saw them get embarrassed or look overmatched. But also, I was left wondering, could they have continued to play? Why don't they come back? Why are they calling it a career now? perhaps cranky, where you could say they went on too long, that maybe they should have retired a year or two earlier. But also, there's the certainty that I value of, okay, it's done. It's over now. It was proven that they had to retire. It was time to do that. Which would you prefer? I prefer them going out on top, personally. I guess maybe I am more comfortable with the lack of certainty than you are, Ben, which is shocking given our relative baseline anxiety levels. It's already a sad thing, right? There's already a melancholy when a player retires. And that melancholy tends to be heightened when the final showing he gives us is not up to his usual standard or our expectation of him. And could we stand to maybe chill about that? I mean, I guess, but it's really nice when they get to go out looking like our sort of mind's eye view of them.

It seems to make it a little easier to bear, you know. And some of this has to do with my experience of Felix and his decline. And how it felt that, you know, you were sort of denied the moments with him that you expected to get. And then even at the end, you didn't get the version of him that you had come to love so much. So I want him to be able to walk away going like, you know, you might think that I could still be doing this. And the reality is that like, why do we think that? It's so hard. that like why do we think that it's so hard it's amazing that any of them do that at all at any point at any age so yeah the downside of course is that the retirement tours can kind of wear a little bit after a while although it is fun to see all of the i'm gonna do a swear all the weird teams are like we're gonna give you this like did you want boots you get some boots you know how many pairs of boots are the Rangers giving away to guys? It seems like they have a warehouse full of boots. It is Texas, I suppose.

But they're just giving boots away. I really like the oil paintings because what's up with that? Where's that going to go? Does Miggy have an office that he needs to have a painting in, you know, because he got a painting from the Yankees. They're like, here's a painting of yourself. You know, I love that, too. Yeah. Ten years ago or whatever it was, I wrote a short story for Baseball Prospectus about Chipper Jones's retirement gifts and how he had to use all of them somehow in his retirement and found a way to use the surfboard someone gave him or whatever. Right. So I do enjoy that odd tradition. But I

think I disagree. I think I actually I don't want a player. I really like walking away, leaving me wondering if they had more in the tank. I want to know that the tank was empty. Okay. Now, I don't want them to be embarrassed or miserable necessarily. I don't want them to go out with a near eight ERA the way that Adam Wainwright has. I don't think that's ideal. But I would rather have them go out not looking like their peak selves because if I'd been a big David Ortiz fan, I probably would have been wishing, hey, no, come back. You're still like the best hitter in 2008. And he just rode off into the sunset.

And at the time, I thought, well, he's going to maybe have a hard time getting into the Hall of Fame, even though he should. And I cared about that more at the time. And I thought maybe if he pads those stats, you know, he's only 30 wins away from 300. Maybe he could get there if he stuck around for a couple seasons. So there's the milestone accomplishment stat padding aspect of things. And I just I don't want to think that I was not robbed but deprived that I missed out, lost out on seeing some more peak performance from a player I really enjoyed. I really enjoyed. So I like the knowledge that, okay, it was over, you know, and I would think that maybe it could even be helpful for the player. Because if you go out on top, if you never have the experience of failure, and David Ortiz had some rough stretches and Ms. Messina had had a rough penultimate season, at least ERA wise. So they got a taste of struggles and failure and people wondering if they were done. And maybe that's the best if you have a pool holes and where maybe not that long a decline phase, but you got to see that he was kind of cooked. But then also he had this semi miraculous resurgence, this feel good story at the very end. So that was maybe best of both worlds. But I would think if I were an athlete and I never really looked old, even if I felt old, someone like Chipper Jones was good right up until the end too.

But he had injury issues. Sometimes it's harder to stay on the field and get to the field and your pregame routine is a lot longer and more elaborate and there's just more wear and tear, but you manage to make it work and only you know that it's harder for you to do than it used to be. But if I were performing at that level right up until the end, I think it would be hard for me to adjust to the next phase of my life and say, okay, that's over. I can't keep up anymore. I can't do it anymore. in my life and say, OK, that's over. I can't keep up anymore. I can't do it anymore. That means there's a finality to it and a closure to it. And now I must move on to the post-playing portion of my life. Well, I mean, Ben, I think you have to accept the fact that it is probably a deeply disorienting, impossible feeling transition, regardless of what the final season is like.

I was thinking about this within the context of some of the executive firings we've had. And obviously, like Bloom wasn't in Boston all that long, but you look at some of the Red Sox guys or White Sox guys rather, all the Sox, you know, it was just a devastating time to be a Sox related guy of any sort. But what I was going to say was, it's not a reason to retain execs who are proving to not work organizationally, but it just has to be profoundly disorienting to like wake up that first day and just not go, just not go in to work that day. Like, you know, I think about some of these guys who have been like, like if Cashman ever got let go, Cashman's been doing that job, like, almost most of my life, he's been doing that job. Like, imagine.

Most of his life at this point. Right. And I'm not advocating for him being fired or retained. I don't have, you know, I'm not, I'm not, that's not the purpose of this particular thought, but like, imagine that he got fired tomorrow and then, you know, he wakes up on Wednesday, a day one works and is like, what do I do with myself? And so, I think that for all of these guys, you're just gonna have months and months and months where you are completely unmoored from what to do. And this isn't unique to baseball players. Like I think a lot of people

who are boomers and therefore get to retire have the sense of like, what do I do with myself? Like, you know, I keep telling my dad, I'm like, dad, you're going to need some hobbies. Like, what do you need some hobbies? You know, people struggle with that. Yeah. Especially if they've been in the limelight and had some high profile career. I was reading that excerpt in The Atlantic from Mitt Romney's upcoming biography. And he was talking about how one of the reasons that senators cling to power is that some of them have tried retirement and it just didn't take. power is that some of them have tried retirement and it just didn't take and they felt like they were put out to pasture and that they were just going off to die if they stopped being senators.

And so some of them are just clinging to those seats, you know, just might die in those seats because they don't want to leave. And I'm sure that a lot of people, plenty of people are like, oh, wow, this is great, actually. I mean, a lot of people, you know, maybe like hardworking high achiever types are perhaps less likely to dream of retirement or adjust smoothly to retirement. But I'm sure a lot of them are like, oh, this is actually quite nice. Like maybe Brian Cashman wakes up and says, gosh, I've been in this organization since 1986 and I've been just kicking my own ass and my own ass has been kicked by Steinbrenners and the press and people questioning me constantly. And I can just go away and no one will bother me or question me.

Wow. Maybe this is a revelation. I spent my entire adult life doing something and not knowing the alternative, right? And maybe he'll just be happy going golfing or whatever. Or maybe he'll feel like he misses it. Right. He misses the excitement and the challenge and all of that. So I'm sort of sympathetic to people not wanting to walk away. But also sometimes it's time to go. And that is why I think sometimes it takes a long time for players to announce their retirements because they're coming to terms with it themselves. But yes, that's why I just feel

like when we talked about that Jason Stark idea, that idea that was going around for a veterans home run derby and some of the players who were supporting it, like David Ortiz was gung ho. And I was thinking, yeah, because he led the majors in home runs his last year, so he never really knew what it was to get old on a baseball field and not be able to go deep with that type of regularity. He was still able to do that until the end of his career. And so, unless and until he is faced with knowing that he can't do it anymore, then some part of him is probably going to be thinking, hey, last time I tried to do this, I could do it. So maybe I still can. So I feel like mentally it would be helpful to be forced

to confront the fact that you can't do it anymore. As much of a humbling experience and kind of a comeuppance as that would be. Maybe it would actually help usher you into the next phase of your life. Maybe, Ben. Maybe. I have so many thoughts about the senator thing, but none of them are ones that will prevent us from getting emails. So I'm going to keep those all to my little self and simply express sympathy for how difficult it is to navigate change as we age. And I imagine to your point, like when you are at the peak of your profession, when you are going out on as high a note as Ortiz, like how much have you had to really grapple with the reality of your skill? We all tend to imagine ourselves as the younger, stronger, more flexible, able to drink three beers versions of ourselves. And then we are confronted with reality at some point and go, you know, not only can I only do one, but really important to take days off in between. So it's a tricky thing. You know, we are just trapped in a relationship with ourselves our entire lives.

And some of them are better than others. Yeah. And, you know, stretches of it are rockier or happier than others. And I just can't, you know, I feel like we're, you and I, we're each in a good spot professionally. I think we feel satisfied with the job we do more often than not. And even we have days where we're like, you know, that wasn't the best that I had. I didn't I didn't have it today. It wasn't my best effort. And no one is watching us most of the time that we're doing that, you know, except for like our pets.

And they don't even know our name. So who could they tell, Ben? our name so who could they tell ben you know who could they tell they could they couldn't say you know that meg she's not she doesn't have it today that edit it was only okay because like babs is like just so happy her butt's normal again yeah and i'm happy for her. Hold on just a second. Cats could participate in a cat home run derby years after their retirement because cats are magical, man. That butt looked so weird and it looks so normal now. Shocking. Shocking. You know, people at Jordan Schusterman's.

I know. Oh, yeah. People have been clamoring for an update on this. I've seen at least one person clamor for that. Oh, well, dress shirt Babs, she's doing great. And now I comment on how normal her butt looks at least once a week. I'm like, Babby, that little butt is so normal looking now. Good for you, sweetie.

Yeah, cats. In defense of my dog, I think she knows my name. But she doesn't know if I'm having a good or bad day at work. She can't. And she accepts me either way. Maybe she knows your name, Ben, but she can't read, you know. And that's fine. She's a dog.

That is true. You know, if she could read, we shouldn't do the podcast anymore and you should be taking her on some kind of circuit. So, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. Well, we're going to return, I think, to the theme of having to be stuck with ourselves for our entire lives a little later in the podcast. Just do you have any thoughts on the Tampa Bay ballpark announcement, which is basically just that there's going to be an announcement on Tuesday. So we don't have a ton of details, but we know that they have a deal, it seems, and that apparently it's going to be right next door, more or less.

So after all the roving, looking for where are we going to have a raised ballpark, if it's even going to be in the Tampa-St. Petersburg area, turns out that it's going to be in St. Petersburg again. And it's going to be another domed artificial turf park. It's going to be 30,000 seats, and seemingly it's going to be half or more paid by the raise, which is, you know, by the standards of teams taking advantage of municipalities to get sweetheart ballpark deals. I guess it could be worse. The standards are extremely low for how bad it could be. Anyway, it's in the 86-acre historic gas plant district, which sounds lovely. Historic gas plant district.

Yeah. I'm sorry to denigrate the historic gas plant district. I haven't spent a ton of time there myself. It's been a while since I've been in the Tampa, St. Petersburg area, but it sounds perhaps less nice than it is. I don't know. I'm just saying. But they're going to put a ballpark up there, and supposedly it's going to be open for the 2028 season. The TROP lease expires in 2027.

So it would just be ready to go. So if this is final, final, then it would put an end to all the talk of the Rays playing somewhere else, right? Moving to Nashville, doing a split season in Montreal, which was really never viable.

Completely wild, bizarre, untrue, real weird thing. But we will not have to even entertain the fiction that that could happen. And in theory, that could open up a window for expansion potentially, right? So what do you think of the larger implications of this and I guess the more local implications of this? I spent absolutely no time in the historic gas plant district. Did you ever see the movie Miss Congeniality, Ben? You remember in Miss Congeniality when... No. Whatever you're about to say, no, I don't. But I did see it.

Victor asked Gracie Hart, like, why is New Jersey called the Garden State? Because if you all recall, she is an undercover FBI agent trying to save the women of the Miss United States pageant. And so she goes undercover as Miss New Jersey. And she says, because oil and petrochemical refinery state wouldn't fit on a license plate. And now I'm going to think about that every time I hear where their new ballpark is going to be. My understanding was that people were like, that's far away from where people live. And so the traffic there is often bad. And so what if we were to put the ballpark not in St. Pete, but more proximate to where people live in the greater Tampa Bay area. I understand that it is not a,

you named it, you named your team the Tampa Bay Rays. So like when we all say Tampa Bay and it's like a body of water and then Tampa Bay Rays fans get mad at us, like I'm just saying that, okay, but take it up with your team. They named it this. Why is it my fault?

Anyway, it seems like it would have been nice if it were closer to people. But if the people of that actual municipality did not want to pay even what they would be required to under the terms of this deal, as we understand them, then like, I guess that made the decision easy for the Rays in a way that I mean in a derogatory sense, to be clear. I guess it's good that we can talk about expansion more. And I will say, having previously stated that the Trop would be a place I would feel great affection for, having never been there, if I were a Tampa Bay Rays fan, it does seem like people are ready to move on from that ballpark. So I think if we are grading, good for there to be a new ballpark, good for it to happen relatively

proximate to the existing fan base and have them not lose a team because boo to relocation. Bad that it is not fully funded by the Tampa Bay Rays because we don't support public financing of stadiums on this podcast regardless of the percentage and i guess now everyone can stop trying to learn french if they were contemplating that as a split destination team and expansion could be very cool and interesting but i return to my prior point about public financing and feel like that will cast a pall over the entire expansion process because one expects that the cities that will ultimately prove to be victorious in their expansion efforts will be the ones willing to pay for the most of a new ballpark and we as we

have previously said don't support that so i don't know's like a mixed, it's a real mixed bag. I think they should have to go back to being the devil rays if they're going to get public financing, though. I think that should be a condition of a new ballpark. It's like devil rays or bust. Yeah. I don't know exactly how it solves the problem, if the problem has been that it's tough to get to. Right. How does this fix that?

If it's essentially in the same place. Yeah, it seems like it doesn't fix it at all, Ben. Seems like it's the same sort of problem. Nicer park, obviously, would help. There'd be a bit of a new ballpark boost and a sweetheart period for that. But I don't know. There are people who are fond of the trap, but I think more people would probably be pleased to have a new fancy park.

But yeah, between that and the capacity, if it's really only 30,000, which the A's have talked about a 30,000-ish seat park in Las Vegas, too, which is tough. I mean, even if average attendance is often lower than that, certainly for these teams it has been. It does minimize your ability to make bank when things are going well. And when you're packing the ballpark, if you can't pack 40,000, 50,000 fans in there during the good times, that makes it a little bit tough. So I don't know how the economics of that work exactly. Or it doesn't make it tough, but it does make it tough for your fans to actually be able to go to games. That too, yeah. I imagine that if the Rays were being honest, their answer to that will be, well, we'll pack it. It'll just be more expensive per person.

And that's a way to make money, but potentially, you know, is cutting off parts of your fan base from being able to access the team, at least during big series or the postseason. So it definitely adds a dynamic to the ticket part of it that doesn't feel like it's maximizing accessibility. But I guess we'll have to see what the market bears. Yeah. Nice to have some sort of certainty, I guess, even if it's not the ideal outcome in either case or far from it, in at least Oakland's case. I do wonder, I brought up expansion because in the past, Rob Manfred has tied together the A's and Ray's situations to expansion. He's basically said we need to get that sorted before we can think about expansion.

Because, of course, MLB and owners love to maintain the threat of moving, which is tough to do if you've expanded into new markets that are often cited as here's where we would move the team to, right? So now if these teams are settled in Vegas and St. Pete, respectively, then in theory, we could start to talk about expansion, which is overdue. It's been a long time since MLB has expanded. The caliber of play keeps increasing. It's high time to have expansion, though I do wonder whether Manfred will walk that back. We've talked about expansion before. We'll talk about again and the different incentives and reasons why owners would want it or wouldn't want it. One reason they would is, of course, you get a couple bill, right, for a new franchise that gets spread around to the other teams just from buying into the ownership group. On the other hand, as our pal Evandrelik has documented lately for The Athletic, this is not new, but it has been sort of an acceleration of the rhetoric of owners talking about getting renovations or else. Right. Or a new ballpark or else. It's in cities that seem like they don't necessarily need a new ballpark. Maybe they have beautiful ballparks already. Maybe their ballparks aren't that old. But Arizona, Anaheim, Kansas City, Chicago, Baltimore, everywhere, it's we need public funds. We need to spruce this place up. We need a new place entirely. So will, in the end, those owners and Rob Manfred, who works for the owners,

actually want to take away the stick that goes with the carrot when you try to persuade your local politicians to give you Boku bucks to fund a new ballpark? So we will see whether that actually happens. Bills, Boku bucks, like what are you doing? You're trying some new stuff over there. Two things can be true simultaneously? You're trying some new stuff over there. Two things can be true simultaneously. Like, you can look at the situation in the trap or like, let me speak to a thought that I had even just yesterday watching the Arizona Diamondbacks play the Cubs. Like, you can want a facelift to a ballpark. You can acknowledge that there might be aspects of it that aren't to Major League Standard anymore and still not think that the expense should be borne by taxpayers. In Arizona, they can't open the roof with fans inside.

They're not allowed to do that for liability reasons anymore because of, I don't know what would happen. Stuff would fall down? Question mark? I don't want to speak out of turn about how catastrophic that could be, but the understanding I have is that they are not able to... The roof does open. It's not broken, but they can't do that process when there are fans in the stands because they're concerned about, I guess, something catastrophic happening. That should be addressed.

They should have better concessions at Chase, just as a separate thought. But that isn't, in my opinion, the responsibility of taxpayers. It should be the responsibility of the team owner. And so we can want SPF. We just can think it's important for that to be something that is borne by someone else and not, you know, the taxpayers of the greater Tampa Bay areaiki these days, so he would certainly welcome assistance. Anyone can contribute. But in our Patreon Discord group, he brought up the goals that our season preview podcast guests had mentioned for each team, because we didn't do win total predictions this year. We basically said, what would constitute a successful season for this team?

And some of those goals were more specific than others. But for most of them, at least, we can assess whether they have been accomplished thus far. And I think it might be fun to just run down what they were and whether those teams have succeeded or failed or whether they're on track to accomplish these things. teams have succeeded or failed or whether they're on track to accomplish these things. So just starting here, I guess this is in order of the pods and the projections at the time. The Braves, what would constitute success was win the World Series. So TPD on that one. Yeah.

But they are still the favorites, right? I think by general acclamation, the best team in baseball and certainly the best team in the league. And by the fan graphs, playoff odds, heavy favorites, by which I mean highest World Series odds. I don't mean that they are more likely to win than not. This is baseball, of course, so your favorite is always going to be not likely to win compared to the field, but they're more likely than any other team to win. And by a meaningful margin at that point. Yes. And you could say like, hey, actually winning the World Series, that comes down to so much randomness of the playoffs and even a single series. So that's tough to hold them to that standard. Of the playoffs and even a single series. So that's tough to hold them to that standard. But you could hold them to the standard of, well, it's the end of the season.

Entering the playoffs, are they the favorite? Like that means that you're the best team. I mean, what more can you ask really than to be the favorite? I guess you can ask to actually win. A lot of fans ask that. But in terms of like the process and what can the team do to put themselves in a position to win. All you can really ask is to be the favorite. And yeah, their World Series ads right now are almost double the next highest team, the Astros, and double the next highest NL team, the Dodgers. More than double. Have you had any moments in the last little bit, Ben, where you've been like, wow, how many All-Stars are you allowed to have in one lineup? Because I've just been sitting with their lineup a lot the last little bit here,

because people are into the part of the year where they start arguing about awards voting in a kind of incessant way, and you're just like, wow, wow, wow, you know? And even the guys who I imagined being sort of on the edge of contributing anything to the lineup, there are plenty of reasons to object to Marcelo Zuna's presence on this roster. He's a 130 WRC plus, Ben. When the hell did that happen? I know. I mean, I had the thought, hey, maybe Atlanta has too many All-Stars, like, at the All-Star game.

I think no. Yeah. I think they had the right number. No, I mean, they deserved to have all those. Maybe more. It's just, I think we mentioned at the time, like, should we cap this? Yeah, it was a lot. Do they just have too many good players?

Is this too many all-stars from one team, even if they all deserve to be there? Break them up. All right. Next team, Padres. What would constitute success for the San Diego Padres? Finish ahead of the Dodgers. Well, that didn't happen. No, that did not happen.

I think we got to grade that one a fail. Sorry. These are pass-fail. Yankees. Make the World Series Series finish better than the Astros. Oh, boy. Yeah. Fail, fail. That is a fail, right?

They've pulled out of their tailspin. I don't know whether they've saved anyone's job, but they're a winning team. They are not a last place team currently. They're saving some face, but they are certainly not going to make the World Series or finish better than the Astros. Okay. Mets make the World Series. Oh, boy. Don't think that's going to happen.

Not in the cards this year. Yeah. Fail on that one. Rays stay hot and healthy in postseason. Oh, okay. So we can't judge that in its entirety yet. No. The healthy piece of it is, you know, whoosh.

They have not stayed healthy. Colourful. Yeah. They've managed to replace some of their injured players with the Jake Deakmans of the world. Yes. And the Zach Littels. Yeah. It's kind of amazing.

Zach Littel. Yeah. What the hell, man? I don't know. I don't know. What the hell? I really don't know. Yeah. Robert Stevenson.

Like they've got this patchwork staff. I mean, yeah, they have some, some good pitchers still, obviously they have Tower Glassnow who's really good and they signed Zach Eflin and Zach Eflin's been good. But just in the absence of so many of their injured guys, they really have just kept it going with just picking up pitchers off the scrap heap essentially. That's not the whole reason that they've done it, but that certainly has helped. Anyway, so yeah, stay hot, maybe. Stay healthy, not so much.

But this is partly postseason specific. All right. Astros win the World Series just like the Braves. Okay. TBD on that one. Blue Jays win AL East, reach second round of playoffs. Well, they have certainly failed at the first part. But the other one's in play still potentially.

It's possible. Yeah. It's possible. It's been a volatile last week or so for the Blue Jays postseason odds. Yeah. They were like high, very low, now back to pretty high again. Yeah. Yeah.

Mariners are doing their best to help them out. Yeah. Rangers, too. Yeah. All right. Dodgers make the World Series. Okay. TBD on that one, too. Yeah. All right. Dodgers make the World Series. Okay. TBD on that one, too.

Yeah. Cardinals advanced a second round of playoffs. No. Don't think so. No. Yeah. No. Won't be doing that.

Phillies home field advantage in the NLCS. Don't think that's happening. No. Seems unlikely. No. Yeah. Okay. Brewers Yeah. Okay. Brewers make the playoffs.

That seems to be done, right? Have they clinched? I guess they haven't. They have not technically clinched. They've not clinched the Central. No. But no, they're as close to clinching as you can get with that. Yeah, they're six and a half games up on the Cubs as we record on Monday morning. Their playoff odds are 100.0%.

They're quite comfortable in that respect. But yeah. Okay. Well, we got to call that one a success then. Mariners make the playoffs. Ben, you know, that last week of the season is going to give me gray hair. Yeah. It's coming down to the wire on that one.

Yeah. All right. Guardians. Guardians goal, sustained performance from 2022. Yeah. So I guess we got to say that hasn't happened. That hasn't happened. No, it has not.

They haven't cratered or anything. But yeah, they're not. Not that they were like that great last year, but hey, they won the division. They were a surprise, fun team. And they have not built on that. Their offense has not even scrapped its way to being decent. It's just not good. It has, in fact, been quite poor. it's not just that it hasn't been good. It has in fact been very bad. Um, I just am shocked. You know, we projected them, I think for like 81, 82 wins, uh, beginning of the season. And now they're kind of looking at like a 78 win kind of deal.

And it's just so strange that their Twitter account hasn't been talking about the change in playoff odds. I don't know, Ben. It's so weird. You're doing a reverse gloat now that some teams and players will bring up the playoff odds and say, you were wrong. We were right all along. They have the chip on the shoulder. You're kind of, you're doing the opposite of that. I just, you know, I have a lot of grace and patience in my heart, but sometimes people

are quite rude. And then I feel like they should be reminded of their rudeness and maybe feel a little bad about it. The Guardians offense, slightly better than the Brewers. So there's that. For us last Friday. And people should read about that because what they are doing is, it's not unprecedented, but it is quite rare. I am fascinated by them. So everyone should check out that crisp piece. And a big part of it is defense, too.

The Brewers have a great defense. The Guardians is fine. It's pretty good. But not helping them out quite as much as Milwaukee's is. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. Continuing, we have the Angels make the playoffs. Got to return to the Angels in a moment, but suffice it to say, fail on that one. All right. Giants show progress in player development. This was Grant, right? That offered this as a Yeah, must have been Yeah, and I just have to say

Grant, hats off to you Because what does that mean? You know? How does one gauge that As a potential success or failure? So I say to you, Grant Well done I'm using Raymond's short summaries here of what the guest said.

So I'm sure Grant offered a bit more specificity than that. Are you? There's been some progress. Sure. Certainly there couldn't help but be some progress in some quarters in player development. Sure. So I don't know. Has there been enough progress to say it's been a success purely on that score? I don't know.

I mean, they've graduated some guys who've done okay. Yeah. And they've got some prospects coming along. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know if they've shown so much progress that it's like, well, they completely turned things around and now you can see them going with the youth movement and being great next year, right? Like until very recently, there was some talk about like, will Farhan be back? You know, like there was recently a vote of confidence like Kapler and Farhan will both be back. But the fact that that even had to be said maybe doesn't speak to this is going great.

The rebuild is going so well that we can clearly see that the next great Giants team is right around the corner. Patrick Bailey is a very good defensive catcher in a way that is shocking when you watch him just because he's kind of weird. Like the way he throws is kind of weird. It doesn't look like it should work. And it does. And so like that's exciting. They've had some of their reclamation project guys be like fine. You know, they've been fine. Have all of them been amazing? No, but they've been fine, Ben. So it's like, it's something. What an interesting org. They want to spend money so badly. You know, they're just so desperate to just back up a Brinks truck and no one will accept their Brinks truck. That seems like a shame. Maybe they'll spend it on Otani. Who could say? their Brinks truck. That seems like a shame. Maybe they'll spend it on Otani. Who could say? Yeah. Well, I'm sure they're not regretting the Carlos Correa non-acceptance of the Brinks truck, or I guess he accepted the Brinks truck and then they decided they actually didn't

want to give him the Brinks truck. Yeah. Like in the movie, The Town. I've seen recent movies. Ben, I went to a movie on Saturday. Can I briefly offer this aside? Sure. Look, I think that we are often at risk of like observing things anecdotally and then ascribing like a broader societal trend to them in a way that ultimately doesn't end up being supported. But like people are really misbehaving at movies lately. Yes. movies lately yes i feel comfortable saying that i am concerned capital c about the etiquette that we are displaying or not at movies because i went to see a haunting in venice so like a i like a

good period detective romp ben those are fun multiple people just talked through it the whole movie like they talked the whole time ben and i And I was like looking around like, is everybody else experiencing this? You're not a shusher, right? But you're not above the pointed look. Oh, I am a firm believer in the pointed look because I think that part of it is that most people, they just are like, they kind of come outside themselves for a second, and then they like, notice that they are doing that. And they go, Oh, I gotta hush. And then they hush. And then you all carry on and you get to watch the movie as it was intended to be seen. And instead, on Saturday, just like a real extra soundtrack. And like, here's the thing, Ben,

the mystery is not that complicated. And they will famously tell you the answer at the end, because that's the whole point of the movie is the reveal where, you know, Kenneth Branagh as Perrault tells you, like, here's who did it. And he does it in a French accent. And his is not much better than mine, but I will not offer my own. And I they were above shushing and they were above pointed looks and i don't know man yeah yeah well i look forward to adding a haunting in venice references to your repertoire just mixing those in among the miscongeniality in the town right yeah every every decade or so you see a new movie to get some references. Yeah, there are parts of Miss Congeniality that don't hold up, but I maintain that it is a delight and one of Shatner's better performances.

Yeah, I'm a big movie man, but not so much a movie theater man. I could kind of take or leave the theater despite having had many wonderful theater experiences in my life. But yes, I am bothered a bit by the noise and the conversation and the crinkling. It's gotten worse. I don't know whether it's gotten worse. I've seen people complain about that. But I also recently read a study about how we all always think that behavior is getting worse. And so people always think that everyone else like society is just completely falling apart and societal standards, which look in some ways, maybe it's true. But also it seems like historically, we all think that everyone around us is just getting worse behaved

and more immoral. And it doesn't really hold true because when you look at like actual attitudes that people have, they haven't actually changed really. So I don't know whether people's behavior in theaters has gotten worse or whether it's like a post pandemic thing or whether it's theaters are less crowded now or different types of people are going to movies than used to go to movies. I don't know if any change has happened because I've certainly had not the best spectator experiences in movie theaters going back a bit. Right. Sure. So I don't know. Totally. But yeah, you're right. It happens.

Yeah. OK. I'm returning to teams failing to live up to expectations, much like the moviegoers around me on Saturday. All right. Twins break the postseason losing streak. So obviously TBD on that too. TBD. They're going to get a chance to

at least. Okay. Red Sox, 85 wins, top three finish. So this was not an unrealistic goal, but also not going to happen. I don't think so. But probably if they were going to, I don't know whether if they were going to do this,

that it would have saved Heimblum's job. But generally, when a GM slash Pobo slash chief baseball officer is fired, it generally indicates that the team has not met its goals or expectations. So they're not going to finish way far away. They're 74 and 76, but they're probably not going to get to 85 unless they basically win out. We only got a couple of weeks left here and they're in last place currently. So, yeah. Pobo.

Yeah. Rangers make the playoffs. So still up in the air as we speak. Yep. They are at 71% chance to make the playoffs right now with the Mariners at 54. So, yeah, it's going to come down to the wire as well. White Sox win AL Central and make ALTS. Okay. That did not happen. All right.

Marlins. All right. Winning record. Fourth place in division. Okay. All right. Marlins are going to do it. They're 78 and 72. They just swept Atlanta post-clinching, maybe just a post-clinching hangover if that's a thing. But Marlins trounced the Braves, looked good doing it. And they're in third place. And unless they really finish badly, they are going to do this. So, yeah, I think we provisionally probably a win for them. Gosh, Ben, what odds would you have offered at the beginning of the season that of all

of the teams to exceed expectations or at least meet them that they would be on this list i think they would have been pretty low for me so good for them man yeah there were people who've sort of believed in the marlins as a dark horse even like last year right and and yeah they are 30 and 12 in one run games you know and and they're they've been outscored by quite a bit on the season. So, yeah, they're doing it in a weird way, but they're doing it. They're doing it. It counts as a success. All right.

Orioles make the playoffs. Heck yeah. Heck yeah. Wow. They've already clinched and they are leading in the division right now. So, yes. And they are leading in the division right now. So, yes.

Diamondbacks was apparently if enough of the young players take steps forward and kind of keep them in the hunt and give you a reason to think that the future is bright. I think that they've succeeded by that measure. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. They've had young guys who've been good. Yeah. And they are certainly in the hunt. Yeah.

Right? They're 56% playoff odds right now. So. And they are certainly in the hunt. Yeah. Right? They're 56% playoff odds right now. So they're sort of in that. Just swept the Cubs. Yeah, right. Speaking of Cubs are next. Make the playoffs is their success goal here. So, yeah, looking better recently.

Yeah. Now they're down to basically a coin flip too. So a lot of volatility in the NL wildcard, well, both wildcard races as you'd expect. So that's one we're going to have to reserve judgment on too. Oh boy. Okay. Royals, improve pitching, find center fielder. Well, okay.

So it depends how generous we want. Find center fielder. Well, okay. So it depends how generous we want. I mean, like, Cole Reagans is really good. So does that count? He is pitching, and they found him. They improved him. He has improved, as we discussed. Did they do it?

I don't know, man. But, like, he has done it, and he is is an employee of the Kansas City Royals and they clearly saw something they liked, right? Because they the mound and just had like three pitches in a row that just went every which way. And then his most recent start was against the Astros, in fairness, but wasn't great, but wasn't bad. You almost worried like, oh, is this like a yip situation out of nowhere? But he walked two and struck out seven and six innings against the Astros. It was OK. So he's probably all right. But yeah, I don't know whether you can say like the team as a whole has had a whole lot of success in that area. No, definitely not.

You would say to the downside, in fact. Yeah, right. They're 27th in pitcher war. There was a lot of hope. It was like, okay, we'll move on from our previous pitching coach, Brad Eldred, and we'll get the new age people in here and we'll suddenly be an organization that's good at this. And yeah, I don't know if you can have confidence that that's the case yet. Well, and it stinks because like, Chris Bubich looked like he was doing so well,

and it was so exciting and then he got hurt you know so some of it is injury related but some of it is just the royals being not great yeah and then as for finding a center fielder i don't know if that's, I mean, let's see where they rank just in terms of centerfield war. And that will be one way to assess this. You know who's at the top of the centerfield war in leaderboard? Seattle. It's Julio. Yeah, that makes sense.

Okay. But the Royals are second to last. Yeah. So, yeah. I don't know. I am sympathetic to, I don't want to give them a pass, but some of their, like, injury stuff happened so early. I don't know. They just feel like an incomplete to me almost, you know.

Yeah. It does feel like, here's a weird anecdote. It does feel like every time I hear someone talking about teams playing the Royals lately, they talk about how scrappy and hard they play teams that are better than them. I don't know. Is that real? Who could say? Pirates win 70 plus games. All right.

They've done it. So good for them. I mean, I guess they've won exactly 70 as we speak. Yeah. They'll probably win at least one more. Probably. Yeah. This is sort of setting a low baseline for success. But, hey, the Pirates as an speak. They'll probably win at least one more. Probably, yeah. This is sort of setting a low baseline for success,

but hey, the Pirates as an organization have done that lately. All right, Tigers. Wow, very specific. 77 plus wins. So they're probably not quite going to get there. They're at 70 and 79. It's within reach, but probably not. So as we've discussed, they've certainly had some signs of progress and players taking steps forward and establishing themselves. But yeah, I don't know if they're going to get to the 77 plus wins. Resolved stadium situation.

Sort of. I guess so. It's not the resolution that A's fans wanted, and it's still not entirely resolved. Totally resolved. Yeah. Yeah. It's more resolved than it was. Was. But that's not, that wasn't the thing.

That wasn't the thing. It said resolved. And you know what? It's not yet fully resolved. That wasn't the thing. It said resolved. And you know what? It's not yet fully resolved. No. Yeah. Okay. I think we got to give them a fail here or at least an incomplete.

Incomplete. Yeah. I guess something could come up soon. Okay. Nationals lose fewer than 100 games. All right. I think they're going to do it. They're 66 and 84.

So, yeah. Congrats to the Nationals. I mean, this is, you know, we talked about the White Sox and the Red Sox. The Sox failed their goals and had changes at the top. And here are the Nationals exceeding their far lower goal but accomplishing it. And now they've had extensions and stability at the top. So sometimes it's all about setting low expectations and exceeding them. All right. The Reds, this is going to be an incomplete until next year, but sellout opening

day 2024. So I think I don't remember the tenor of that preview conversation, but that probably suggests that it was more about just getting people excited for next season than about contending this season. And so I think you've got to say that the Reds are a success there. They're still in the running very much, and they were not expected to be where they are this soon. So it's been a fun season, an exciting season. They've been in contention, and we'll have to wait and see about the sellout, but there's every reason to think that people will start to come out and support this team now that they've got some good, exciting players. I, in fact, would be shocked if they did not sell out their opening day next year. I would be very surprised

by that, given the reasons that all of the guys on that team have given fans to be excited. And lastly, the Rockies. Make trades and let prospects play. So they did make trades, technically, after not making any last year, right? They made some trades. They did. The most exciting, but they made some and let prospects play. I guess they've let prospects play. I mean, I don't know. Ezekiel Tovar has been there all season. They've stuck with him and he's had some issues offensively, but overall has been a positive contributor.

So they've allowed that to happen. They've given Nolan Jones a shot and he's been good, right? Yeah, he has been. Perhaps the Guardians could have used his services at the Playton in the outfield. Yeah, could have. I guess we got to grade the Rockies as kind of a successor. Oh my gosh. Do we got to hand it to them? Maybe.

I think we maybe got to hand it to them. And look, we can hand it to them and still say, what a weird org. Because, you know, again, multiple things can be true simultaneously. But we maybe have to, you know, do a minor, a small hat tip, like based on the very specific goals outlined by not the organization itself. Exactly. Right. Yes. So if Dick Monfort or whoever was expecting a 500 season or something, not going to get that. But in fact, they might still lose 100 games. So I don't think most people would

consider this a success. But going by the very specific criteria that we're talking about here, I guess we got to do, in fact, have to hand it to them. Okay. All right. Well, that was fun. Perhaps we'll revisit one final time at the end of the season, although most of the ones that are up in the air are make playoffs or win world series and uh you you will all know whether that happened or not without us telling you yeah but they might want to be reminded and you never know all right and finally so a little bit on the angels here now the angels just what is going on? They cannot do anything not weirdly. Oh, yeah. So weird. What happened with Shohei Otani is not on the surface super strange, really. Like nothing happened except that the oblique injury that had been sidelining him, he had another MRI.

I guess it was severe enough that they weren't going to push it and have him come back. And also maybe he is about to have some sort of elbow procedure. We still don't know what or when. But knowing now that he can't play or he's not fully healthy and obviously the angels are out of it. Okay, maybe he can get a head start on the recovery from that. So, fine. That's not weird. I mean, it's unfortunate.

I'm sorry that this season for the ages is in the books sooner than we all thought it would be and wanted it to be. Still a very special season, almost certainly an MVP season. Sort of sad that he didn't get to put some cherries on top by playing and playing two ways or even one way all the way down the stretch. But still amazing season. So the weird thing about it was just the way that it was announced. And I don't know how much of that was on the Angels and how much of that was Otani, but what came out was like, he's cleaned out his locker. All his stuff is gone from his locker. Like they threw away the water bottle, you know, his locker is empty.

And so everyone is speculating and wondering, like, what happened? Did he just desert? Like, is he AWOL? Like, did he just decide I've had enough, which would not be in character for Shohei Otani. But the angels wouldn't or couldn't or didn't say, right? They were like, we'll tell you tomorrow. So weird. Very weird, which again, like, I guess there's some scenario where like it was in deference to Otani, like Otani wasn't around to make a statement or something or that they didn't want to announce it before he was

ready for them to announce it. I don't know. But it was just one of those weird angels things where it's like we find out that he's just gone. And he's not gone, gone. Like he's physically present. He's around he's not gone, gone. Like he's physically present. He's around the team still, you know. So it's not like he deserted.

But for a while there, it seemed like or people were speculating at least that there had been some sort of fracture between them. And that was just a very angels thing for that speculation even to fester, right? Because it's the angels. you can imagine almost anything and they will not necessarily disabuse you of those notions. Well, you know, they just know that he needs to get back to his law practice because the paperwork is piling up, Ben. And, you know, clients are calling and they want to know if their, you know, disputes are resolved. And so like any simple country lawyer, he just had to get back to it and he didn't have time. He didn't even have time to throw out his water bottle, you know, he just didn't even have time for that. And they didn't want to, you know, let something grow in there. They have enough problems. They don't

need to start a new civilization in his water bottle. So they had to get rid of it. But yeah, it's so weird. And I think you're right. It is important to acknowledge that like our instinct is to ascribe sort of a bumblingness to anything that concerns the angels because like they make it pretty easy for you to do that. Yeah. But the thing of it is, you know, it could be that it was just like a weird, he had a doctor's appointment. He had to go get imaging done for, you know, the surgery, whatever it ends up being that he is no doubt going to need. There are plenty of just like, eh, it's just a weird thing that's easy to resolve. you should conduct yourself like a more typical organization is that you would not assume that something like I was just like, did they lose him? Is he trapped somewhere in the facility? Because like, I like to joke, but he is not in fact an attorney to my knowledge.

Scrambling behind the scenes. We got to find him. Where did he go? He's not here. We don't know where he is. We left him just like in the airport or something. I would have loved it so much if like, you know, they're like, we don't know where he is we left him just like in the airport or something i would have loved it so much if like you know they're like we don't know where he is and then you know there would have been a cut to a you know one of the writers strike picket lines in hollywood and it's like he's right there he's just like you know feels really strongly that bill marsh would not come back well it's sort of a fitting ignominominious ending, I suppose, to his Angels tenure. Not to his part of the Angels tenure, but to what the Angels were doing while he was with them.

And the other aspect of this that I want to talk about a little more in depth is Anthony Rendon. Okay, because... Yeah, this was actually the weirder thing. It is weirder. And this is another scenario where not totally sure whether this is more on the team or on the player. Yes. I'm fascinated by Anthony Rendon. I haven't for a while. What a guy he seems to be. He really is interesting, right? Like I did a little deep dive here on just like the history of Anthony Rendon talking or not talking to the media and just coming up with

quotes and how he's been portrayed and regarded. Because there are ways in which I identify with Anthony Rendon. We are very different in a lot of ways. Like, I think geographically and religiously and politically, we're pretty different. He's from Texas. I am not from Texas, as you may have divined. He is a very religious man. I am not. He is or at least has been a Trump guy. Not me. Right. So there are a lot of ways in which we're not aligned. But there are also a lot of ways in which I feel like, oh, yeah, like I feel that way, too. Like this is maybe this is what I would be like if I were good enough to be a major league baseball player. And there are things that he has said at times that are kind of refreshing, but are maybe more refreshing when he is one of the best players in baseball, as opposed to someone who barely plays and doesn't play that well when he does play. So it's not really that Anthony Rendon has changed like as a personality. I don't think it's it's more that his play and his availability have changed. And that has led to a change in perception of him. Although there's always been a bit of that. Right. So, yeah, Anthony Rendon hasn't played for quite a while and wasn't playing that great even when he was playing. And he had other injury issues earlier this year and then fouled a ball off himself. And at first it was like, we don't even know if he's going on the I.L. And I remember saying, it's Anthony Rendon. I think he's probably going to go on the I.L. And he did.

And he hasn't played since. And he has declined to address what is going on with him over a period of months. Right. And many times being asked about this. And it's been almost like a little comedy routine that I don't think writers or fans have found funny, but perhaps he has. Right? Where the writers will ask him about his status and he will find some way not to answer. So he initially, he said he was on the dead list and people on the dead list don't have to talk. And then he compared himself to the Terminator and said he'd be back, but refused to say when he'd be back. And then this was in July. He said, I'm not here and walked out at the clubhouse. And earlier this month, he said, no habla ingles today. I don't think he conjugated that correctly. So it's actually true. He didn't hablo ingles, but he's come up with all these reasons not to talk. And if you want to be sympathetic and charitable, you could say,

hey, it probably sucks to talk about how you're hurt and you're not able to play. And I guess he's not obligated necessarily to say what is going on with him. But he finally came out and grudgingly gave the writers a few minutes. And by that, I mean literally a few minutes. He said he'd take questions for a few minutes. And he asked the team rep, like, how long do they have? Like, how much longer is the clubhouse open? And the rep said four minutes. And he was like, let's do it in three.

So they finally got their questions in and he answered. And he said that he has a fractured tibia. Yeah. Now, the team all along has described this as a bone bruise. And he said that he has a fractured tibia. Now, the team all along has described this as a bone bruise or a deep bone bruise. And apparently, he has now seen five doctors about this. So I guess he saw two doctors selected by the team and two doctors he selected. And all of those four said he had a bone bruise. And then this fifth one that he just went to this month after continuing to experience pain said it's a fractured tibia. So it's like a four out of five doctors agree that this is a bone

bruise and this latest one says it's a fracture. Now, ultimately, I don't know that it matters that much because according to the team. He's not available anyway, right? Right. According to the team and also according to Rendon's agent, Scott Boris, like you treat these two injuries essentially the same anyway. It's not like you would do something different for a fracture that you do for a deep bone bruise. And I guess it's kind of a hazy line between them and maybe it's tough to tell whether it's one or the other so when asked why there was this discrepancy in the diagnosis rendon said you can ask them them being the angels anyway this is uh anthony rendon right and so when asked if he planned to return next year, if healthy, he said, I don't know.

He said, trying to get through today. And then he was asked whether he was considering retirement. And he said, I think with a smile, I've been contemplating it the last 10 years. A lot of his quotes, I think probably you have to be there or you have to hear it. Like he has this kind of dry humor maybe and it reads worse in print maybe than it does when he actually said it. But I don't know that most fans would warm to him either way. Right. This goes back to this kind of longstanding perception of Rendon that either he doesn't like baseball or doesn't love baseball or he doesn't really want to play.

He doesn't really want to get back out there. And that's the whole thing. That's why people pile on. He's in a way making this worse for himself. I don't know whether he realizes that or not or whether he cares. I don't know whether he realizes that or not or whether he cares. But if he came out and said the typical things that players say when they're hurt and was like, gee, yeah, I would love nothing better than to be out there are frustrated that he hasn't been able to play and saying that he really shares that frustration, like he feels it and means it and that he's doing everything he possibly can to get back out there. The typical things that players say, people would probably get off his back a bit. And as it is, I think people question, does he really want to be

out there, right? Is he trying his hardest to be out there, which is perhaps unfair. We don't really know what's in his heart and what he's doing behind closed doors. But I think a lot of the things that he has said over the years, when he was healthy, when he was playing well, things that he has said over the years when he was healthy, when he was playing well, people gave it a pass or let it slide or said, oh, that's just Anthony being Anthony. And hey, as long as he's playing. But as soon as he's not playing and not playing well, then people look at all these quotes and say, you know, like if he's been thinking about retiring for the last 10 years, then is he trying his absolute hardest to get back out there?

So it's a tough situation because he is owed quite a bit of money still. And other than his first season with the Angels, which was a shortened season because it was 2020, he has not nearly played the way that they thought he would, that he did with the Nationals. And I don't know if there's any reason to expect him to suddenly get back to that form as he's now 33 and has an ever-lengthening injury history. Yeah, I have so many thoughts, Ben. There is something that I find deeply relatable, like as a millennial to be like thinking about retirement of course i view it as like you know it's the horizon you've never actually get closer to it so there's that piece of things

i wonder if anthony rundone would like to see the classic film center stage where maureen despite being the best goddamn dancer at the american ballet academy realizes she doesn't want to be a dancer ben she doesn't and she asked a dancer, Ben. She just doesn't. And she asked her mom in a heartfelt moment, wouldn't you rather I found something I really loved than something I was just good at? Yeah. Whipping out yet another movie reference

from, I guess, the same year as Miss Congeniality. That was a big year for you. Y2K. Yeah, the other very millennial thing to do is to have a couple movies and be like, I don't need to see any more ones. I'm content with these. I feel like I've understood the world enough for me. I think that look, it's like player health thing is always like a sticky wicket because fundamentally, it is really weird how much we know about these guys by virtue of the fact that they happen to play baseball. And, you know. More so than other sports even, right? Yes, much more than other sports.

It's much more obscured. Yeah. Yeah. And most of the time, that means that we know stuff about them, like within the context of playing baseball. And then sometimes, like, we know a lot about Mitch Hanegar's anatomy, you know, and that's, it feels weird. It feels weird to know that about aitch hanegar's anatomy you know and that's it feels weird it feels weird to know that about a man you've never met you know so there's that part of it so i have sympathy for how fundamentally strange that must be and how it wouldn't take like i think an abnormal expectation of privacy to be like do do I have to tell you this? Like, you know, I'm not sending

you Christmas cards. Like, why must I reveal to you this thing that is personal and private and potentially painful? But also, I'm a baseball writer, and I have a lot of sympathy for the folks on that beat being like, we have to ask this question. He is owed a great deal of money. He was for a while thought to be sort of central to the Angels' plans and hopes for really making something of this era of Angels baseball where they had Trout Notani. And he just hasn't been able to play or be good for much of that time. And so I think it is, while it is reasonable for him to sort of bristle at the idea of having to reveal these aspects of his life and personhood, I think it's also reasonable for him to be asked. And yeah, he does seem like a guy who doesn't maybe super enjoy a thing that we all assume you would both just get to enjoy and also have to enjoy to play at the level that he has played in the past. pretty fascinating test case and sort of case study for how important, I'm sorry, I'm going to do a swear again, like give a sh**ness is to a baseball player being able to be good because,

you know, he has had incredible seasons in his career. And we think of these guys as having to be all like piss and vinegar out there. And if they're not, then they're not going to be able to sort of overcome the day-to-day grind of the sport and the length of the season and the competition both on the rosters that they occupy now and coming up behind them from the minor leagues. And maybe you look at how the last couple seasons have gone and say, well, he answered that question, right? Whatever level of give a shitness you have to have has to be more than what Anthony Rendon seems to have, because if he had more, now I'm regretting piss and vinegar, but here we are, he'd be able to overcome these injuries and get back on the field. And maybe he, you know, we look at this and might

say like he's answered part of that question, right? Or if he were more sort of fiery that he'd be able to have done those things and because he hasn't, he couldn't, who knows. But I also think that, you know, there was a stretch where you could have looked at Rendon and said, okay, maybe the way that he presents himself as a competitor differs from our expectation and what we assume to be the ideal, but maybe it has allowed him to be steady Eddie and it has allowed him to produce and it has allowed him to be kind of the guy that he is. And who are we to think that there is only one way to do that? And I think that like,

maybe all of those things can be true simultaneously. And maybe you can have a version of yourself when you're young and strong and have been relatively healthy and that sort of flat affect serves you well and then you need to adjust as you age and be some kind of different guy i don't know like i i wouldn't presume to tell a big leaguer like here's how to be a big leaguer but it is i think that he can be like a good player who is sort of flat and quiet and doesn't bring all this like bluster and yelling and like and that can be a thing that rubs people the wrong way. Like that can be true. And even, you know, though I have sympathy for parts of his whole deal, I think it's also fine

for us to be like, you got to play ball a little bit, Anthony. Like, you know. Yeah, I'm always just so interested in these players who achieve a lot without seemingly having

the same drive that other players do, or at least maybe not vocalizing it or making it as obvious externally. Like we've talked about Jeff King and the late Mike Ivey, both of whom were first overall picks and had the same sort of like, does he like playing? Is he going to just walk away from playing? And from the sound of it, like they had mental health challenges, like they experience anxiety and depression. And it's almost like a chicken and egg, like were they not as gung ho about baseball as others because their careers didn't pan out the way that you would expect a first overall picks to, even though they had more than a decade a piece in the big leagues? Or is that why their careers didn't pan out the way you would have expected them to?

Or is it just something separate and it would have happened that way anyway? But I'm always fascinated by that because I always wonder how many of the people who have the potential to be big leaguers become big leaguers or even pursue being a big leaguer or aspire to be big leaguers. Like even in the U.S., even in any country or culture where baseball is prominent, I wonder, because we sort of assume that we're probably finding all the people who have the capability to be big leaguers or, okay, maybe some of them are very talented athletes and they go on to play other sports, but you don't think that much of people who have the athletic ability to be high-level

professional athletes and just don't feel like it. But there have to be a lot of those people. I identify with that not because I have the ability to be a high level professional athlete, but because when I was a player, I wasn't a an astronaut or whatever, like a lot of people want to be big leaguers. And then at some point, there's some heartbreaking moment where you realize I can't hit a curveball. My dream is dead, right? I never had that. I never wanted to be that. There are obviously a lot of things that are appealing about the lifestyle and everything that comes with it. But I think also a lot of things that I wouldn't really be into. things that I wouldn't really be into. And so I kind of appreciate that he made it to where he is and where he was, despite not liking a lot of the trappings of that life. And yeah, like this guy was one of the very best players in baseball for several seasons,

right? 2017 to 2019, tied for fifth among position players with Nolan Arnauto behind Trout, Betts, Bregman, and Lindor. He was also a top 10 position player from 2016 to 2019 or even 2014 to 2019. 2014 was really his first full season and he missed most of 2015 and still was in the top 10 overall over that stretch. And he was underrated, I think, partly because he was, you know, an overall player who was good at everything, really, without being the best at a lot of things. Although he led the league in doubles and, I guess, RBI once.

But between that and between his not seeking the spotlight, he just was perpetually underrated. He was for a while the go-to answer among like stat heads, like who's the most underrated player in baseball, the way that Jose Ramirez might be now. It was Anthony Rendon for a while, right? And if you go to like pages of Anthony Rendon quotes, it's quite a journey. I will link to some and I'll link to some stories because I was perusing just the timeline because there's been a lot written about Anthony Rendon for someone who doesn't really want to be written about and doesn't really like talking to the press. I think in some ways that frustrates writers and in other ways, it's like catnip for them. It's like, oh, yeah, fascinating. This guy doesn't want to crack this

nut. Right. I'll be the one to write the revealing profile of Anthony Rendon or just like, why is this guy wired differently from everyone else in the clubhouse? It's irresistible, even if he doesn't want to give you anything. So if you go back to like July 2009, I found an article in ESPN. This was, I think, after his freshman year at Rice. And of course, he was a great college player and was drafted sixth overall. This was the coach of Rice at the time said, if one thing is going to get Rendon through the injury. Yeah. than Anthony, Graham said. I love baseball, but I never particularly loved to practice when I was a player. He loves to practice. Rendon's passion for the game comes from playing with his brother, who is four years older, and challenged him to compete from a young age.

It hasn't changed. Baseball is what I always wanted to do with my life, he said. I always want to play, and I always want to hold a ball or glove or bat. That was Anthony Rendon. A much younger Anthony Rendon in college. He has not really struck that same stance since for the most part. But if you go back to 2014, that was when he really broke out in the big leagues and there was a lot written about him yet. And this quote is still sort of haunting him. It's kind of a millstone around his neck. July 2014, he said, I don't watch baseball. It's too long and boring, right? Now, this was pre-pitch clock. He had a point, but he said he didn't really want to watch it, right? Whereas, you know, you hear other players and they're just like baseball rats. They're just, they think about nothing but baseball. And Rendon's just like, no, I don't watch baseball.

It's boring. And the story also said that he and his family had a rule that they won't talk about baseball when he visits, which look, it could be helpful, right? Your life is nothing but baseball. Maybe you go home, it's your sanctuary. Let's just talk about other things. But still, it sort of smacks of like, I don't really like baseball that much. I don't want to talk about it when I don't have to. And then September 2014, there have been so many stories about like either Anthony Rendon makes it look easy or the other side of that coin is he doesn't look like he's trying hard. So in September 2014, he said that comes from, I think it's just me trying to stay relaxed. That's what a lot of people say, especially in college. It looked like I'm lackadaisical out there, like I'm not really paying attention. If I'm always tense, I'm going to be overthinking the game.

I try to just go with the flow. And that's another way in which I sympathize with him because I'm kind of a calm person, which means I don't tend to get super high or low. And sometimes I think that has been read as like a lack of enthusiasm or as indifference or something. And it's not that necessarily. It's just like the way I emote or don't. And so I'm sort of sympathetic there with him because what's he supposed to do if he's just like naturally athletic and he just makes it look smooth and not high effort? Well, that's just that's who he is, right?

Like he's supposed to, you know, he's not one for eyewash. That's for sure. And I appreciate that because a know, he's not one for eyewash. That's for sure. And I appreciate that because a lot of players are way into the eyewash. And he's just like, no, I'm not going to make it look harder than it is for me. Right. So September 2014, another story. I don't like being in the spotlight, as you guys in the media might have figured out. It's not who I am.

It's not how I was raised. I don't like seeking all the attention. When you start doing stuff like that, it gets into your head. You are not being yourself. I just like playing the game. I don't like all the extra stuff that comes with it. I didn't like the attention. And that's what's awesome about Rice. I would go to class, walk around campus and do my thing. No one even noticed who I was. Right. So there's almost a Grinke-esque aspect to some of Rendon's quotes where it's like he just doesn't want the attention. He wants to kind of go about his business without all the scrutiny or celebration.

And with some guys, I guess that might be false humility. Right. But with him, I believe it because he has constantly struck that tone. So here's another piece. October 2014. I've always been calm as long as I can remember. I'm trying to see in high school or college. I've never been like rah-rah kind of guy. It's always been just all right. I always feel happy for my teammates, but I'm not going to be the one at the top of the dugout yelling, which, again, just reminded me of my own early baseball career.

I just I liked being out there. I was happy for my friends and my teammates. But I just I didn't have the like team spirit, school spirit, demonstrative rooting aspect of things. I guess I'm not like a joiner, really. Being part of a group is odd for me. So here's another story. You're a renegade. March 2016.

There's more in this world than just baseball. Everybody puts us players on a pedestal. Oh, they're baseball players and they're making this much money. So they have to do this perfect and that's perfect and can't mess up. But we're human beings as well. And that's a note that he's returned to also, just like there's more than baseball, right? So April 2017, another story. We're out here playing a game, and I'm not one to take it like super, super serious. Obviously, I want to win, but at the same time, at the end of the day, it's a game, and that's what I'm going to treat it as. And the story continued.

Plenty of athletes avoid the media, but Rendon's playful evasiveness, which he has continued, is unmatched in the Nationals clubhouse. He would rather talk about the Houston Rockets and James Harden's MVP case than what is happening on the diamond. He thinks he's in the NBA. Ryan Zimmerman cracked about his teammate. And again, he returns to this theme. People treat us and they put us on this pedestal like we're so much better human beings than them because we play a professional sport. I'm the same person as you are.

I just happen to know how to hit a baseball and throw a baseball. But I probably couldn't go into somebody else's job and be as good as they are, but no one's praising them about it. Just because we're on TV, they treat us different. It's like I'm the same person as you. Don't treat me different, which that sounds like a healthy attitude, right? It sounds like humility. Right. It sounds like humility. And it's true. Like we don't expect people in every occupation to be 100 percent always in and super enthusiastic about their jobs. But in baseball, we expect that because, A, it seems like a dream job. And, hey, they're just getting to play a kid's game out there and they're making lots of money. So how could you not be just totally thrilled at all times to be doing that thing? And how do you even get to that level?

Like how you must be so talented if you don't treat baseball like it's the end all and be all, right? If you have this perspective on it and you still are that good, then you must be amazing because we think of athletes as like, wow, they're wired in a different way. They're built different, right? think of athletes as like, wow, they're wired in a different way. They're built different, right? It's not just that they're physically skilled, but also they have this mental psychological edge or drive or need to be better, right? This extreme competitiveness. And to hear a player say that, like, I think it's healthy and refreshing. Maybe we should have more players expressing that. But probably a lot of people feel that way too. I bet there are people in clubhouses who feel that way but wouldn't want to say it because that kind of puts a target and a bullseye on your back. If you're not playing well, then people are going to question how much you want it, you know?

Yeah, you're a give a sh**ness. Yeah, you hear that like in the NFL draft. If someone has interests outside of football it's like is he committed to football it's like it could just be not your entire world like maybe that's okay you know right and i think it is the entire world for a lot of people like shohei otani seems like he just lives and breathes baseball and he's been described as like a baseball monk i mean i know he likes anime right but like he just loves baseball and he just is so focused on it in a way that it seems like Rendon isn't. But I kind of respect that, you know, like that particular aspect of his message I feel like is a positive one.

It just it comes back to bite you when suddenly you're not playing or not playing well. And then people assume rightly or wrongly that you're not out there because you don't really want to be out there you don't care about being out there i think that there's i guess maybe the way that i would put it is like there's not in a way that is perhaps refreshing like there's a lack of guile there i don't know that the way that he opts to express himself is like particularly strategic if what he wants is to kind of be able to go about his business and not be bothered. So if what he is keen to do is to be left largely alone, like he could adopt a less defiant approach to that and probably achieve more of the peace that he is seeking. approach to that and probably achieve more of the peace that he is seeking. But I agree with you that like people, we have such weird expectations about like the access that we have. And I don't mean that as media members. I mean, that is like people who observe

baseball. And I think that we tend to underrate how terrible it would be to be famous. Like we tend to think that like fame would be awesome because you'd have all this money and you'd have power and you'd have, you know, the ability to have influence and you'd be praised and you'd be admired and you'd be bothered at the grocery store. And like, I don't know if Anthony Rendon gets bothered at the grocery store, but we tend to think that like, you know, you can like send people to do that for you. So why would it matter? And it's like, can you imagine how much it would suck if you were grumpy and getting gas and somebody asked you for an autograph? And then your like personhood is going to be questioned. Your character is going to be put in doubt if you're like a little snappish with a kid at the gas station.

Like that would suck. I would, you know, I would hate that. I would find that to be awful. I would, you know, I would hate that. I would find that to be awful. You know, like the amount of perceived you and I are, which is like leagues away from a professional athlete is to my mind sometimes too much, you know? So I can't imagine it. I would find it horrible. I think that I get being like, leave me the hell alone because I'm here to just do a thing and I'm going to engage with it to the extent I need to, to be able to do it to the level I think is necessary. And we already have endorsements of his sort of level of engagement with the game because he got to sign a big contract with the Angels. And, you know, I'm sure that they wish it had gone differently than it has, but like, that they wish it had gone differently than it has, but like, that's not nothing, right? So, I am sympathetic. I, if I were in his inner circle, might offer some advice on how he could have, say, answered some questions and perhaps been left alone. But like, I get the instinct

to be like, can I just be, can I just be left to be here do i have to answer all of these questions and like the fact of the matter is can you play baseball for this baseball team is again it comes down to a really reasonable question for media to ask and i don't think that they're you know being pushy or out of line by by that. Like, because here's what, here's how this conversation, I don't know for sure, but here's how I imagine this conversation will go. You're an assigning editor and you are responsible for the work of an angel's beat. You're asking, so what's going on with Rendon? Like, you're asking that question probably every day. You're asking that question at least once a week.

Like it is a wildly pertinent question. You, a beat writer covering the angels would not be doing your job particularly well if you were like uninterested in the answer to that question and trying to get it. But I also would if I had to bear even more scrutiny than I do, which is not very much, would be like, leave me alone, please. I just don't want to ever talk to anyone ever again to be perceived a nightmare. It's interesting in Sam Blum's article for The Athletic about Rendon, he said, it's not

that Rendon is disliked among his teammates, the front office, his coaches, or his trainers. By all accounts, he has good relationships with those in the building. So it's really more of an issue with the fans and the writers, and I'm sure ownership or front office probably not that pleased that he's making this a story. Also, we should note for all this, he's super relaxed and calm and laid back. He also reached out and tried to hit the fan early this season, right? Yeah. He got in trouble for that. So that was not good.

A lot of my like, oh, I sympathize with Anthony Rendon. Not so much that. Yeah, you can't put hands on people. Super mellow man does not do that regardless of what the fan was saying. Right. And he got suspended for that as he should have. So just a couple more quotes here from my Anthony Rendon career literature review. So from that same 2017 article, Trey Turner, who's smoother than Trey Turner? And Turner said he makes

baseball look easy. He looks like he's not trying out there. And Rendon laughed when he heard Turner's assessment because there was a time when his ability to make everything appear so effortless did not drop the wilderment when his laid back nature was not viewed as a positive. To some observers, he was too relaxed. His chill attitude meant baseball wasn't important to him. There was a backlash in college. Rendon recalled, they would say I was lazy. Oh, he doesn't work hard. He doesn't want to be out there. He just looks lazy out there. Okay. September 2018, another article, he says, I love baseball. I love being on the field. I love competing, but I'm not a fan of everything that comes with I love competing, but I'm not a fan of everything

that comes with it. No offense. I'm not a fan of the interviews. I'm not a fan of people coming in the clubhouse. I'm not a fan of everyone treating you different because you play a sport. How am I different than anyone else? I'm a human being and I have my faults too. And then he said, maybe I just want to be normal. I want to go home, be a dad, take them to school. That's more important to me than baseball. Then he returned to that. It's just that I want to go home, be a dad, take them to school. That's more important to me than baseball. Then he returned to that. It's just that I want to be normal. Like, I wouldn't mind. Let's go find a nine to five job.

But now we're on the schedule from February to October. I'm gone. We have those three months of freedom in the off season, which is good. So it has its perks. I don't know. I think normalcy is on my mind. I've never had a spring break. We're always playing baseball.

It's like, I want to be normal. You know, you kind of feel for him as much as you can for someone who's making 38 and a half dollars a year. He did work with kids a lot at the Nationals Youth Baseball Academy. Apparently, he was good with that. And there was one time when he was like interviewed by the kids and he took to that much more readily than being interviewed by media members. And one of the kids said, if you were any type of creature, what creature would you be? And he thought about this and he said, I'd be Bigfoot, a dreamy look spreading across his face. Nobody would ever find me. I read something like that and I kind of feel for the guy, you know.

And then February 2019, okay, before his last year with the Nats, he's talking about like, is he going to sign an extension and how much is he going to make if he goes to free agency? He says, I don't care. You guys know my personality. My identity is not in this game. If this game is taken away from me at any time, I'd be fine going back to the house and living a happy life. If that happens, it happens. I'm going to play as long as I can, but my identity is not in this game. This game doesn't define who I am as a person, which takes us full circle to our topic from the start of this episode, right? About how hard it is to walk away and to transition into that phase of life. Doesn't seem like it's going to be that hard for Anthony Rendon whenever

it happens, right? And then May 2019, he was asked if he wanted to be an all-star. He said, sure, I'd love to be an all-star without going if that's possible. Just very cranky, right? And I think that was maybe said sort of with a smile also, although he then did get selected for the team and he did not go. He said he had some minor ailments. That's the only time he's been an all-star and he did not show up. Right. And hey, I mean, I love not going to things. So I get it.

You know, you're in your 30s. Of course you love not going to things. But how's a fan going to feel like if you're organizing an Anthony Rendon all-star campaign and he's like, I'd love to have that honor without having to go and show up. Right. So it's tough. That same summer, he said, I think I'm able to keep it even keeled. I have a good understanding that baseball is not the most important thing in the world. But at the same time, you want to get a hit.

I'm competitive and I don't want to get out. But it's not the end of the world. And fans don't want to hear that. They want to hear it's the end of the world. Because to a fan, at least to a certain type of fan, it feels that way, right? And you want the players to mirror that feeling regardless of whether it's sincere or not. You want them to sort of give their stamp of approval to your angst by saying, I feel this too. And I think most players, they don't feel it the same way, at least that fans feel it. They're frustrated, but I think they have more of a long-term view, you know?

Sure. You make outs, you win some, you lose some, right? And fans, they don't want to hear that. And Anthony Rendon, he's not going to tell them what they want to hear. And that same month, I love the game of baseball. Again, the number of times he's had to say, like, I love baseball, that tells you how often it's been questioned whether he loves baseball. I love the game of baseball. Like, I love playing.

I'm just not good at – I just don't enjoy the media part of it. I don't enjoy all the different aspects that come with it, like the business side of it. If we can, like, be in the backyard playing baseball, I'd be the happiest kid in the world. You know, that's kind of how I feel about playing baseball as well. And I guess lastly, this was like during the 2019 playoffs during the NLCS, a reporter asked Dave Martinez about him and said he plays like he has no pulse. And Martinez said sort of jokingly, yeah, he has no heart. And then he walked it back. He said, I shouldn't say that. He's got a big heart.

We just talked about this. I just watched that guy go up there in big moments and yawn during an at-bat. I mean, what does that say about him? He's just one of those guys that you see no emotion regardless of if he hits a grand slam to win the game or he makes a great play or anything. He just plays, right? And he said, I know he enjoys playing. And believe me, when he doesn't do good, he gets really frustrated. He does, even though, as I said, it looks like he has no pulse, but he does. And I know his teammates appreciate him very much. And after the World Series, Brian Dozier, same refrain.

I remember saying to myself, God, this guy doesn't really even try. And today it's the same thing. Everything comes very natural and easy. And Rendon's dad said in one article that when he was seven, eight, nine, when he wasn't doing well, he would get angry and cry and the dad said you can't show emotion when you're

competing because it takes you out of your game it shows weakness to the opponent he pretty much learned that at a young age the light bulb switched and all of a sudden he wasn't showing emotion out there so possibly he feels things so intensely that he's actually repressing it a little bit maybe that it's simmeringressing it a little bit. Maybe that it's

simmering under there. And then finally, last quote, this was after the 2019 World Series, after they won, right? And you're supposed to say, oh my gosh, the greatest feeling in the world. This is the high point. He said, I feel like there's bigger things going on in this world. A baseball game might get magnified because it's the World Series, but we're not taking bullets for our country in Afghanistan or whatever it might be. This should be a breeze,

which, again, in some ways, yeah, keep things in perspective. But also, I guess you got to know that fans really care about this stuff and they probably

don't want to be told by... It's almost like the Shatner at the Star Trek convention in SNL where it's like, get a life. You know, it's just a TV show. Like fans want to feel like you're living and dying with every pitch, too.

And so when a player is constantly saying, it's just baseball, I can walk away from this. Then they're going to be like, please do, you know, because you got three years of thirty eight point five million left on your deal. And if you don't want to be here, we don't want you to be here. It's a complicated case. It's a complicated case. It is a complicated case. And like, you know, the fact of the matter is that the dude is hurt and hasn't played very much at all. And, you know, nobody remembers 2020 because we're all still processing the trauma of having

been alive. because we're all still processing the trauma of having been alive. So, you know, it's just, it's always going to make people skeptical. And we don't see these guys day in and day out the way that their teammates do. And, you know, when you decide that you don't want to make yourself available to the folks who could be sort of an intermediary for you in that regard, people are going to draw their own conclusions. And like, he probably doesn't, you know, because of his sort of general attitude and affect, like, is hopefully, I guess, may be able to put all of this stuff into perspective for himself also. But yeah, not strategic, like I said. And we can debate whether that kind of strategy should be necessary,

but it's definitely, you're seeing what happens when you just decide, I'm not going to participate in that piece of it. There are going to be times where people draw their own conclusions, and if you're comfortable with that, then it's no skin off your back. What do you care? But it is, I think we have to feel confident that it's no skin off your back. Like, what do you care? You know, but it is, I think we have to feel confident that it's at least an earnest and sincere perspective because if it weren't,

he would have changed gears just to be left alone more than he is by now, you would think. Yeah, I don't think he's doing a bit here. No, I think that this is just like, this is Anthony Rendon, for better or worse. All right. Well, Adam Wainwright did get win number 200 on Monday.

He has those Brewers bats we talked about to thank for that, as well as his own pitching prowess. Got that ERA down closer to seven than eight. So happy he had that moment amid a disappointing season. Also, no future blast today. We're rethinking the format for those. We'll figure out what that'll look like sometime soon, but we won't have one every episode for all eternity.

But to ensure that we will keep making episodes for all eternity, or, you know, at least for the foreseeable future, you can support the podcast on Patreon by going to patreon.com slash effectivelywild, as have the following five listeners, David Hogan, Tyler Peterson, Matthew Neer, Jeff Johnson, and Dirk Keaton.

Thanks to all of you. Patreon perks include access to the Effectively Wild Discord group for patrons only, access to monthly bonus episodes and playoff live streams, discounts on merch and ad-free Fangraphs memberships, and so much more, patreon.com slash effectivelywild. If you are a Patreon supporter, you can message us through the Patreon site. If you are not, or if you are and you just prefer email to the Patreon site, you can send us a message at podcast at fangraphs.com, Thanks for watching! You can follow Effectively Wild on Twitter at EWPod, and you can find the Effectively Wild subreddit at r slash Effectively Wild. Thanks to Shane McKeon for his editing and production assistance.

We'll be back with another episode a little later this week. Talk to you then. But I still feel like that little girl Hearing grandma's handheld ladies Collecting baseball cards before I could read They say I waste my time Tracking all these stat lines But it's here I've found my kind I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm

I'm I'm I'm