Fake Doctors, Real Friends with Zach and Donald - 2023: My Strike with Adam Conover

Episode Date: August 1, 2023

On this week's episode, the WGA and SAG/AFTRA take to the streets to demand worker's rights. In our show, we learn more about the strike, the rules, and the future of this podcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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There he is, everybody. Donald Faison. Nice. He's wearing his SAG-AFTRA strike't you have a arizona nevada as this motherfucker sips a latte no this is a really good smoothie i just got oh it's got i think it's got dates in it or figs in it or some shit date smoothie goes hard what is that i didn't hear you guys ever go to earth cafe yes yeah of course earth cafe is my jam it's not it's earth cafe earth you it's spelled for you listeners who might one day visit west hollywood california it's spelled U-R-T-H. And it's really good.

You know what I'd like to get, Donald? These motherfucking nuts. By the way, Mr. What's his name? Mr. Mr. Mr. Beats.

What's his name, Donald? Mr. Beats. Mr. Beats. Mr. Beast. Mr.

Beast. Mr. Beast. God god this guy is fucking breaking in the money he's got a freaking anyway his team i know and he has chocolate that's called d's nuts i don't know why i'm giving this guy a promo because i haven't even tried d's nuts yeah but his his team slid into my dm saying they wanted to send me some and it looked really good it looked like reese's peanut butter Cups. Hell yeah. But it's called D's Nuts. I don't necessarily want to eat Mr. Beast's.

Well, it's called D's Nuts, so it doesn't work. But it's funny. Do you know what really works? Do you know what really works? I'm sorry. I heard this on the internet. My kid is now surfing YouTube when we're in the car on the way to basketball,

and I heard a really good deez nuts one and I don't want to say it because I don't want to sound like I'm kind of like you know but the joke is the dude goes what's your name and he goes imagine dragon and the guy goes imagine dragon what And the guy goes, imagine dragging what? Imagine dragging these nuts all over your face. And I lost it. My kid played this shit and I lost it. I lost it.

You're the best dad because you love that humor. No, but Donald's the perfect dad for a little teenage boy because he's like, he's said these nuts. My kid's nine. Perfect. You reminded me of something I learned this weekend from a 16-year-old. Donald, have you heard of the expression that's now on TikTok? And a 16-year-old boy explained it to me.

It's called a giat. Is that like when you win a Tony? No. Oscar. Donald, that's an egot. Okay. What it's used to describe, Joelle, you might want to adopt this, write it down. It's when you see a really nice, juicy bottom. And that's called the guillot.

Do you know why it's called the guillot, Donald? No, why? Because when you see it, you go, guillot, damn! Oh, my word. The children. Oh, my God! Damn! Oh my word. The children. That's exactly how I felt when they said, imagine dragging these nuts all over your face.

I laughed for like five minutes. But yo, look. This was Henry Lawrence who taught me this. And I'm like, I don't understand. Why are they calling a nice bubble butt a guillot? He goes, because when you see it, you think guillot, damn. That's just horrible. That's horrible.

I thought you'd like that. You think it's horrible? I like these nuts jokes better. But, you know, hey, that's just me. Yeah. I saw Mission Impossible mission impossible was fucking awesome it didn't do that well well it didn't do that well um are we allowed to talk about that okay now this is where we get we're not allowed to talk about this we're not allowed to talk about

seeing a movie joel i think some people constitute that as promotion so you can leave that in you can leave that in because we're learning. All right, guys. So let's just get to the obvious. There's a SAG strike. There's a Writers Guild strike. We're not allowed to talk about Scrubs because one of the rules that we received is you cannot even promote a show that would have been struck had it been filming now. And obviously Scrubs would have been struck right donald yep now joelle i saw that full house uh the tv show they just started a rewatch podcast and it said

that they had received some sort of permission from sag to do it and i was like i'm gonna ask joelle about that yeah um so the rules have come down and they're a little bit confusing. So basically, so SAG wrote to iHeart. It was basically like, hey, you guys can continue to do rewatch podcasts if you're under contract to do them. So, OK, then we got through the SAG rules we're going through with a fine line and it said if you are sag you cannot promote a show and then sag asked cosplayers not to promote a show if they ever want to be in the union so then i was like the waiver seems interesting and a little bit confusing and so you know when you came back you were like i don't think we should do it i was like okay i think it's a good to be in alignment with the union and support and we are a very visible

podcast and so i like the idea and we're looking for ways to pivot when we run out of scrubs episodes so i thought yeah you know what this might be a beneficial time for us to try some new things i actually show our support joelle i actually said that to Donald because Donald and I went to picket Netflix today to show our support for our union. And I said to him in the car, I think it's actually fine because it'll get us practicing doing other things but the show since we're running out of episodes and we want the show to continue. Yeah, I think it's a good opportunity for us and a good way for us to show our support and hopefully uh educate folks on like why it's important to be in alignment with the union what the union is trying to get for everybody it's a big deal what's happening right now yeah you know whether you agree with it or whether you don't agree with it the fact that all these people are coming together for one cause, for one purpose, is powerful.

No matter, you know, that was a conversation. That's another conversation. We'll get into it later on, too, as we get into the show. But that was another conversation Zach and I had in the car, like, what are we doing this for? What's the end game? You know what I mean? Well, we have a great guest today whose name is Adam Conover,

and he hosts a show called Adam Ruins Everything. But most importantly, for our purposes, he's been very vocal on social media, Joelle, correct me if I'm ever wrong, about explaining this strike and the Writers Guild strike to people that don't understand it because most of our listeners as we obviously understand are not in the industry and you might think like what is this about you know when you think of hollywood you think of

rich famous celebrities um and of course this strike is not about the rock it's not really about even donald and. It's not about a lot of people. I mean, in the macro, of course it is. But it's really about the fact that, and Adam will correct this stat if I'm wrong, but I just recently read it, and that is that only 12% of SAG members make the minimum amount, which is $26,000 a year, in order to qualify for health insurance. So it's about so many people that are barely getting by with the way the industry currently is and how all of these new modes of receiving the entertainment that is streaming have cut out that is streaming have cut out the main way that actors and writers were making money,

which was participating in residuals. And of course, AI and all the other stuff. Well, I want to get into AI too, because, you know, I heard rumors, and I don't know if this is true, and we'll talk to Adam about this, but I heard rumors that they had already started contacting people or have taken pictures of people's likenesses in the background paid them one time and then used yeah they're this is true okay well what it is we can ask adam but as i understand it it wasn't for perpetuity although that's super sketch who's's going to look and be able to- Right, who's going to freaking dig deep. Who's going to audit whether you're fake.

Right, come on now. Right. But let's say you're a background person on Game of Thrones or some big crowd scene, right? So they pay you to be a background performer for the day, which is, I don't know, $200, $250, $150. I'm not exactly sure. Whatever the SAG minimum is.

What the SAG minimum background is. And then they scan you because they're going to also use you digitally in crowd scenes in that show. So the ridiculous deal seemed to be, we're going to pay you for one working day, but then also scan you and use you in perpetuity on this show for whatever that minimal day rate is. So that's all crazy stuff that's happening.

And we're going to ask Adam all about that. But most importantly, we wanted to have Adam on the show for our listeners because we, the four of us only know little tidbits about it. We wanted someone to come on who could explain it all, not only to us, but to you, and hopefully we can all gain some insight what this is all about and what is the end game, as Donald said. How does this possibly end and how long could it feasibly be? I got to say one funny story before we invite Adam in. Do you remember the Key and Peele sketch, you guys, where Barack Obama gets off the stage

and to all the African-American people he's giving the hip-hop hugs? This is exactly what happened when Donald and I were just picketing at Netflix. Donald, every single African-American actor was like, yo, to Donald, giving him hugs they remembered him they knew him in new york and they know his mom all this stuff like donald was like fucking basically obama on the picket line and then they'd seen me and like oh hey how are you how are you how are you yeah i was like i was like dude this is real life this is the real life version of that key and peels this hasn't happened in a long time where people were like,

yo, fuck, Faison, Donald, Faison. I'm sorry, what's your name? To Zach. That really happened. That happened. And then the same guy who said that was like, yo, I'm killing it with the Spectrum commercials. Donald, I was like, when I left the picket line,

I was like, Donald should run for office. I mean, everybody loved Donald. They were going crazy. They were asking for selfies with Donald. I got haters. I got haters. Don't everybody got haters. Donald.

I got to have haters. I ain't doing it right. Donald, you must have left that picket line being like, damn, I'm beloved. No. Because you always tell that story how it was a scrubs guy. Today, it was definitely Donald Faison and white scrubs. Right, and white scrubs, right.

All right, let's count in and invite in Adam. Go ahead, Donald. Five, six, seven, eight. I told stories about a show we made about a bunch of docs and nurses and a janitor who loved to hate I said here's the stories that we all should know

so gather round to hear our gather round to hear our Scrubs Rewatch Show with Zach and Donald Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Jack and Donald. Mm-hmm. Hey! Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Adam Conover! Oh, God.

I don't think that's how you say his name, Donald. How do you say it? Adam Conover. I did say that. I know, but you said it with your Oprah voice, and it was really hard to understand. You're a dick. Adam, you're a very handsome man.

Has anyone ever told you that? I was expecting something else. I was expecting something else. I've seen your show, and so I know what you look like, but I didn't know I was going to get movement. I have never. Well, this is harassment. I have never seen your show. That's fine.

But as soon as I saw you, I was hello yeah yeah well now this chat's gonna be you guys need to google image if you don't know what adam looks like he's a very handsome man and uh i think it's gonna make this chat even more enjoyable donald i agree wow you guys you guys are too nice adam thank you so much for coming on. This is our very first episode not talking about our television show because we are honoring the strike rules. And we all have questions. We don't know – we know some basic things about the strike. Our audience obviously for the most part is not entertainment, and we thought they probably have lots of questions because they probably are sitting there going why is leonardo dicaprio on strike i don't understand he has a yacht and also for those audience members out there who do

know who are in the union and who are actors but still don't know what's going on this is a great conversation to have because there are a bunch of people out there that have no clue what's happening. Yes. I'm happy to answer every question as best I can. And my credentials in that matter, in case you're curious, I'm on the board of the Writers Guild of America West and the negotiating committee for the Writers Guild. I'm a SAG-AFTRA member as well.

So I know a little bit more about the Writers Guild'm a SAG-AFTRA member as well. So I know a little bit more about the Writers Guild than about SAG-AFTRA. But I bet I can answer almost every one of your questions. Okay. Well, let's start at the very beginning, which Donald, as you know, is a very good place to start. Let's start at the very... Okay. So which line should we go to if we're looking for hot chicks? Yeah.

Donald wants to know first and foremost... Straight up. Even as a married man. As a married man, Donald wants to know which picket line has the most baddies. The answer is absolutely Netflix. You need to go to the Netflix line. Okay. Well, there you go, Donald.

You've been informed. That's actually where we picketed today. We picketed today. Let's get to the basics, Adam, and we'll just start with SAG, if you don't mind, because that's the one that has obviously become on our minds. I'm in the Writers Guild too, but Donald's in SAG, and obviously 160,000 people just went on the strike, and those are all the – most of the celebrity names that people know. terms to people, trying to explain the idea of residuals, and we'll separate AI out just for the moment. Let's just talk about how people's livelihoods have been changed with the move to streaming. Can you explain it like I'm five, as they say, to our audience who are not in entertainment? Sure. So the last time writers and actors went on strike together was 1960. It was 63 years ago. And what we won in that negotiation was this thing called residuals.

And the residual payment as it was then and mostly still is today is that when something that we make, that we create as the original artists who created the work, and then this includes directors as well and crew members, every time that airs,

we receive a percentage of the profit or we receive a payment. So it's we receive a percentage of the profit, uh, or we receive, we receive a payment. So it's not, it's not technically a percentage of the profit. It's, uh, uh, it it's, you know, we receive a payment every single time it airs. Um, and you know, that was invented in the days of broadcast then updated for cable where, you know, it's linear programming. So every time they choose to rerun it, um, you get a payment. It also applies to theatrical releases and, you know, physical DVD as well. And this ended up becoming a fundamental part of our our compensation, where, you know, as folks may not realize that for the average working actor or writer, you know, you work one job and you get paid for that job. But it can be six months to a year before you get your next job, during which time you're not sitting around, you're

working, you're a plot, you know, you're auditioning, you're writing spec scripts, you're developing, right? But you're not paid for that work. So residuals became an essential part of, you know, what it's like to make a living in this town. So for example, I created a show called Adam ruins everything. Um, I, uh, wrote on that show. Uh, I also acted in it. Um, and, uh, every, every year that the show aired, I would receive something like $25,000 in residuals, uh, for all the various runs of the episodes. And the residual is highest the first time it runs and it goes down every time. So, uh, you know, I, the first year I would get like $25,000. Now I get maybe five grand a year or something like that. Now, $25,000, I'm not getting rich off of that,

but that's like, you know, part of a mortgage payment for your year. You're right. That's just, that's part of a living. And it adds up with everything, all the other money that you're making and it helps you make a life here. Because coming here, you got to hustle regardless. And we all know this, right? We all know this town is about hustling and it never fucking pays.

But, you know, back then, at least we got some sort of, you know, here you go. Here's an extra bonus of, we played it again. And by the way, some people wonder what is the concept behind a residual at all? Why do we think we deserve one? Because most people who do a job, they're like, well, you know, if I i help build a boat i don't get money every time someone rents the boat or whatever right um the reason for that is and this is i think one of the interesting things that's underappreciated is that most writers or performers you own the copyright to what you make right if you write a novel you own the copyright to it and you have to get paid every time right in the

entertainment industry we give the copyright to the movie studio. When I write a screenplay or an episode of television, I don't retain the copyright like a novelist does. Right. I give it to the company. And so the residual is like a really payback for me assigning the copyright to them. So,

sorry, what was your question going to be Zach? You know, I want to just help parse out for people to remove the celebrity aspect of, not that obviously those people want residuals, Donald and I want residuals, but I want to just parse out that everyone in Hollywood, for the most part, is a freelance worker. Yes. Some people, yes, have been very lucky and made a ton of money. But think of the

bulk of the guild, and those can range from people who work every once in a while, they're day players who get a line here and there, they're the smaller characters. Those could be people that have a big show but haven't had a show again in years. And those can be also a background performers who work as, as the people in the background and everything in anything in between. I was about to say, there's so much, there's so many other things. There are people that were on television shows for years and didn't get paid

money because of the way contracts were made and didn't get paid a lot of money. And we are led to believe that their, their persona in the world is big and they're famous and everything like that, but their check was little. Right. Think of that ultimate example of that wonderful actor.

I can't think of his name. Joel, you might know it, who was on the Cosby show and he was working as a garage, a grocery bagger. And I remember it went viral because the, the world was shocked and he was like, no,

I, yeah. Why are you shocked? I worked for a while on the Cosby shocked. And he was like, no, yeah, why are you shocked? I worked for a while on The Cosby Show, but I haven't worked in years, and now I need to make a living and pay for my family. And there was such an outpouring of love for him, he ended up getting lots of jobs. But that was a moment that I think is really apropos for this discussion because there's a guy who isn't just a – maybe he's not a household name, but he was a working actor.

We all grew up watching. And now he's working as a – was working as a grocery bagger. So I just would help – I guess, Adam, I want you to help us explain to the audience how to parse out the different aspects of the union. Look, I saw a great – Sorry. I want to say his name is Jeffrey Owens. Joelle just told me. Go ahead.

Oh, yeah. I mean, Jeffrey's story is the common story in Hollywood. I saw some stats today that if you go look at the number of actors who have appeared on your favorite show, look at like Law & Order, right? Thousands of actors have appeared on Law & Order. Now, that's a long show, but even a shorter run show, it'll be, you know, a thousand actors have been on Mad Men or whatever, right? We're talking background actors. We're talking, like, you know, people who have one or two lines, et cetera. And those are middle-class jobs.

When you turn on your television, 95% of the people you see on there are just trying to make a mortgage payment. You know, Mariska Hargitay is making a ton of money. The guy who's playing the dead body is, is like hoping to pay rent this month, right? Right. And so the decline of residuals has hit those folks. So I said that, you know, for writing in Adam Ruins Everything,

I would receive about 25 grand a year, a little bit less for acting, let's say 10, something like that, right? My total residual payment, I created a new show for Netflix, six episodes called The G Word, came out in last year 2022 i just received my first uh residual payment for the entire year of that being on the

largest platform in the world whereas adam ruins everything was on the smallest channel on basic cable my entire year's residual was five hundred dollars which is bullshit, dude. Listen, man. All right. If I'm on a show and it streams like a beast on whatever streaming platform it is, and somebody else is on the show and it doesn't stream like a beast, here's the question. Shouldn't I get paid more money in residuals because my show was watched more or i mean these are these are i just want to connect i just want to i just want to connect the dots for everyone so adam's first show that he's referencing where he made the 25 and the 10 000 was a basic a smaller basic cable show on true tv yes yeah on true tv now that we the whole

world has moved to streaming is basically gone i gone. I'm surprised you even got $500. It's just not a thing. The Netflix model, and Netflix began it, if I'm not mistaken, was we're not going to participate in that. There is no, or maybe there's a minuscule amount there, but for all intents and purposes, there is no residual. We're buying you out, and there is no back-end money. How did they get around that, Adam? I guess because it was a new platform. It wasn't cable. It was streaming, right? Correct. we're buying you out and there is no back end money how did they get around that adam i guess because it was a new platform it wasn't cable it was streaming right correct so you know one of the problems with you know labor negotiations in america this is just how it works in our industry

is every time there's a new format we have to renegotiate for that format so you know the when the writers guild was founded 90 years ago sag SAG after around the same time, or sorry, SAG was originally just the Screen Actors Guild. And, you know, first it just covered film. Then television was invented and the unions had to fight to cover television. And that was just broadcast, right? NBC, ABC, CBS. Then cable was invented. And so we had to fight to cover cable, had to fight to cover HBO.

And now streaming is invented. And then it was DVDs. Then it was DVDs. Then it was VHS, and I guess that probably covered DVDs. No, you're right. And if you remember the last writer's strike in 2007 and 2008, the entire point of that strike was just to get jurisdiction over the Internet, just to say those jobs have to be union. And thankfully, the writers at that time went on strike and won that for everybody um now uh that you know streaming has taken over we are going back to get the money

right because our contracts just the formulas are worse for they're very very poor for streaming whereas they're quite good and mature for broadcast and cable and so we're trying to get that parody well what's crazy is that they'll you know like always they'll scream we don't have the money though where's the where's the money what fucking money are you talking about? I'm not making any money. I'm not. I mean, yeah, I got paid my salary and then got that bonus that, you know, extra 43, but, you know, the million. But, you know, that's not where what are you talking about that we have money to pay all of you actors? What are you talking about that we have money to pay all of you actors? Yeah. Yeah. So what do you say to that, Adam?

Because obviously the studios, the streamers lied, and Bob Iger came out and said some things that were quite unpopular, but basically saying the industry's at a tough spot. It's recovering from COVID. This is the worst time for this. We don't have money. This is going to hurt the industry more at a time when it's just trying to recover. I'm paraphrasing. He was widely received very poorly. He felt like he was the living incarnation of Mr. Burns from The Simpsons, especially since he's collecting

some obscene amount of salary every year. Yeah, he had just renegotiated his salary for himself an extra 50 million a year. An extra 50 million a year. That's my understanding, yeah. So what do they say in response other than we can't afford this? I mean, that is all that they say, you know?

And here's the thing, though. That's not a line that we can listen to because we never ask them and they say, oh, yeah, now's a great time. Business is booming. Pull up a chair. We're ready to negotiate. They always say, oh, it's such a bad time. Oh, we're all tightening our belts. Oh, we can't afford it right but if you look at the actual numbers and the writers guild we have a research department that spends all day every day analyzing how much money the companies are making they're all making more profit than ever they're all making more revenue than ever and the show budgets have gone up show budgets have gone up by 50 over the last 10 years writer pay has gone down by 23 um and i don't have the figures on hand for actors but if listening to you know working actors such as yourselves and my friends who do that and just my own experiences as an actor, it's clearly harder to make a living here than it was just five or ten years ago. So now what has happened is that they had a boom because of the pandemic. Everyone signed up for streaming services, and the boom is fading a little bit.

But that doesn't mean they're unprofitable and also they all decided to buy each other so warner brothers discovery you know took on immense amounts of debt so that david zoslav could you know his small company discovery could buy this giant company warner brothers uh it was a terrible deal he's you know they're losing money on the deal because they're having to finance all this debt but that's not our fault it doesn't you know that doesn't mean that we should uh pay if you work at a grocery store you know the grocery store can't say hey guess what people aren't buying as many baked beans we're gonna pay you less you know like it's it i'm sorry you know they're still making massive amounts of money on our work and by the way they are rocketing towards profitability

um all these companies they're adding ads they're adding free tiers i mean you know all if you listen to their earnings calls right where they talk to the stock market they say wow everything's going so great we're growing growing growing we've got all these new movies coming out oh my god most profitable ever blah blah blah blah then they sit down with us and they plead poverty it's ridiculous you know it's just propaganda i mean it's always been that, though, right? That's always been what it is, though. The hardest thing to do in this town is get a movie made.

That's the hardest thing to do. Yep. Because they don't have the money to make it. What will happen? So it's been, what has it been? With the writers, it's been 13 weeks. Is that correct? Let's see.

Joel, you put that in mine. We're in the 80s of days in terms of the strike. Joel, was that correct? You put that in my notes. Okay, so it started on May 3rd, I think. May 2nd, yeah. So Joel says that's, I can't do math, but Joel says that's 13 weeks. Obviously, it goes without saying,

it helps that 160,000 people just additionally went on strike when the actors joined them. You know, the question on everyone's mind is how long could this possibly play out? The studios are definitely putting out there that they're in no rush to settle this, that they're going to try and wait it out. They know. Some of them are partying in the Hamptons as we speak. I just want to say that, you know, the other thing I want to just touch on, I know I'm asking you two questions at once, but I'm excited to have you. I have so many questions, but the, you know, it goes without saying this affects so many people outside of these guilds because the industry is on pause. So whether you're a restaurant in the neighborhood or you're

a dry cleaner that service the industry, or you're any of the crew positions that aren't in these guilds that are forced to stop your work, people are really going to start or already are starting to struggle. is how long can this go? How long can these studios sort of fold their arms and make people wait to come to the table with a real offer? First of all, there's no way for me to predict how long it's going to go. And anyone who tells you they have a prediction is making shit up and they're bullshitting you

and you should ignore them. But how do we think about how long it's going to go? Look, the only way that a labor union ever loses is if their own members say you know what this has gone on too long we want to go back to work and take a bad deal you know like we just you know what let's just let's just go back to work uh it'll everything was fine no worries right just we'll take an okay deal i don't think that's going to happen this year because i really hope that doesn't happen because if that does i don't think so what the fuck are we what are we doing what are we doing and i don't think it will donald because uh i think actors and writers know that if we don't have this fight right now we're not going to have

jobs to go back to five years from now that you know it's gonna our careers will be turned into gig work uh you know the companies will have eradicated the writing room. They'll have like, you know, they'll be stealing everybody's likenesses with AI. And even if you get a job, it won't pay you enough to be able to make a living. And we're going to be doing this nights and weekends in between shifts at

Gelson's or, you know, at our H and R block job, right? That'll be the new reality. And that's what it is in a lot of countries like Korea. That's what the entertainment industry is. Sorry,

go ahead. And that's what Bill Lawrence had said. Another thing he Korea. That's what the entertainmentw away from all sorts of folks who are less likely statistically to have some sort of generational wealth that enables them to pursue the art form uh with with making under 26 000 a year or it'll be like a freaking high school elective all of a sudden like you gotta fuck you know what i mean like it's not even part of the curriculum anymore it's just a freaking you gotta go freaking sign up for that shit and if you're lucky you get picked you know yeah i mean and and there's a really good example of that by the way it. It's called reality shows, right? People who work on reality shows, they pay you nothing to do it.

They do it because they're already rich. And then how do they make money? They make money off of doing all the ancillary stuff, like selling, putting their name on stuff and branding things, etc., right? Right. And I think that we as a culture and we as an industry don't want that to happen to our industry. I don't think we're happen to our industry. I don't

think we're going to let it happen. So I think that the workers are incredibly united and we're not going to leave the picket line. So how does that mean things are going to end? Well, it's going to end when the companies come back to the table and they make deals with the unions that the unions can accept. So how long is that going to happen? Is it going to take for that to happen? I think we're going to start to see it over the next couple of weeks and months because, uh, when the writer's guild went on strike, the writer's guild has historically been the only militant union, the only union that went on strike. So they spend all year planning for a writer's guild strike in case there is one, we'll just hold them off for three months. Right. And

they plan to hold us off. Nobody though, though expected sag after to go on strike because it hasn't happened since the 80s and the two unions haven't been on together been on strike together since the 60s so they had no plan so literally after the strike was called you know it's we're about a week and a half after the strike was called now um the the ceo spent the first week just shitting themselves just going hold on a second how much money are we losing what just shut down what can i do what thing that i was counting on isn't happening now fuck what do i do my whole plan fell apart then it's going to take them a week to call each other on the phone be like hey bob did you fucking no i heard what you said on cnbc don't worry about it

i thought you were right anyway we gotta go talk to these actors and oh you want to go talk to them all right oh all right let's make a call right and that's just gonna take time it's just logistics right uh and then they have to come back to the table we have to negotiate i saw that they're already mumbling about moving some of these giant tent poles like you know there's some a bunch of things have changed my show was listen man listen, man, my show isn't coming on – isn't on the fall lineup anymore because of what's going on right now. Yeah. You know, like –

Well, they wouldn't want to launch your show without you promoting it. I mean, you understand why. Well, I completely understand. And they have all these – I just went to the movies and saw all these trailers for big-ass movies, and they're all supposed to be rolling out the rest of this year. And they're not going to want those big-ass movies and they're all supposed to be rolling out the rest of this year. And they're not going to want those big-ass movies

coming out without the stars on the red carpet and all the talk shows. And then look past that. Look at the pipeline, right? The main thing we're affecting is the future pipeline. So if you're Ted Sarandos, right, you don't get any more Stranger Things until the strike is settled. Like, they don't have any more stranger things until this until the strike is settled

like they don't have any in the can there's no new season to release stranger things is the super bold on netflix that's when they get all their subscribers every year right and so when the writer's strike was happening he was like all right i'll just wait a couple months i'll get my new stranger things around august that's when they'll start working on it now that the actors are on strike as well that he has no idea when he's going to get it, right? It's a question mark on his schedule. And he cannot last that long without filling in that question mark because he knows he needs that

because he's got those quarterly earnings calls coming up in a couple months. And all of those streamers have their stranger things. Exactly right. I mean, Apple has severance that was shut down. Every one of them has that right uh and not to mention movies and by the way half of these companies still have fall broadcast schedules as you said donald right like you know not anymore exactly they're trying to replace it

with reality shows i mean some people will watch those some of those reality shows are covered by a sag after i think and therefore still might have to go off the air. Like, you know, they're scrambling and they have, you know, literally they're talking to like Tide detergents and Tide is like, we're pulling our commercial. Cause you guys don't have new Abbott elementary. They're running reruns of Abbott elementary in prime time instead of new episodes, the biggest show, you know, one of the biggest shows on broadcast. So, so these companies that the, the hurt is starting for them immediately. Right. But for us on the picket line, the hurt is real, but it's hurt. We've already been experiencing because go talk to any of those

actors. They said, I haven't been able to make a living for three years because you know, I got a job. It didn't pay. I don't get residuals anymore. So they're not thinking, Oh God, I'm missing out by so much, but being on strike, We're all out there thinking, if we don't do this right now, then we're never going to have careers again. And so we're going to be out there as long as it takes. And it's just going to take, how long does it take for them to realize that? For the CEOs to realize that?

We support you guys, obviously, because we are actors. I'm not in the show. We support the writers. Don't kick Adam off. Yeah, we have more questions. I'm not kicking him off. Dude, I'm not kicking him off. Dude, I'm not kicking him off. Well, you sounded like you were summing up, and I was like, don't fucking sum up. I'm not fucking summing up. He just made a big fucking statement.

Okay, just don't fucking sum up because we have more questions. I'm not summing fucking. You know what? Let's just go to break. We're just going to go to break. We need to cool off. We're going to go to break. And when we come back from break, not only is Donald not going to sum up,

but we are going to ask Adam about the AI component. We support the writers! Okay. Thank you for everyone's ears. I'm an actor, too, by the way. Well, I mean, I can't say anything. Look at him. Look at his face, Donald.

He's an actor. I already told you how handsome he is. You don't put that face behind a Commodore typewriter. You got to see that face. All right. We'll be right back. And we don't ask that face. All right, we'll be right back. And we don't ask Adam about AI. Donald, we'll be right back.

If you've been following the news, you know that from health care access to safe schools, LGBTQ plus rights are under attack. And it's about time queer and trans youth get the microphone and tell their stories in their own words. I'm Raquel Willis. Join me on my new podcast, Queer Chronicles, a show where LGBTQ plus folks tell their own stories in their own words. This season, teens will share all about growing up in political battleground states. I wish I could feel more comfortable in my own body here, but that's just not the case. And follow along as they discover what queer and trans liberation means to them.

This isn't running away from yourself. It's running into who you want to grow into. running away from yourself. It's running into who you want to grow into. Listen to Queer Chronicles on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your most fabulous shows. more revealing and more personal with more entrepreneurs, more trailblazers, more live events, more Martha, and more questions from you. I'm talking to my cosmetic dermatologist, Dr. Dan Belkin, about the secrets behind my skincare. Walter Isaacson, about the geniuses who change the world. Encore Jane Jane about creating a billion-dollar startup. Dr. Elisa Pressman about the five basic strategies to help parents raise good humans.

Florence Fabricant about the authenticity in the world of food writing. Be sure to tune in to season two of the Martha Stewart Podcast. Listen and subscribe to the Martha Stewart podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine you ask two people

the same exact set of seven questions. I'm Minnie Driver, and this was the idea I set out to explore in my podcast, Minnie Questions. This year, we bring a whole new group of guests to answer the same seven questions, including actress and star of the mega hit sitcom Friends, Courtney Cox. You can't go around it, so you just go through it. This is a roadblock. It's going to catch you down the road. Go through it. Deal with it. Comedian, writer, and star of the

series Catastrophe, Rob Delaney. I shouldn't feel guilty about my son's death. He died of a brain tumor. It's part of what happens when your kid dies. Intellectually, you'll understand that it's not your fault, but you'll still feel guilty. Alt-rock icon, Liz Phair. That personal disaster wrote Guyville. So everything comes out of a dead end.

And many, many more. Join me on season three of Many Questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Seven questions. Limitless answers. And I know what you're trying to get into a day or so. And what you're trying to do. So we want to thank Adam for being on the show today. You motherfucker. I will fucking kill you. All right, we're back.

Adam, I wanted to ask you about the AI component of all this. Because we spent the first part talking about residuals. I think our audience probably grasps what the fight is there for the labor unions. Now, the second part of this is this explosion of this AI universe. I went to the TED Talks this year, and as you can imagine, 95% of what was talked about was AI in every aspect of human life. And I saw many examples of how it's going to affect the entertainment industry this weekend. Um, um, my, my, um, Bill Lawrence's teenage son played me an AI song that was, he told me that this musician producer had put in three huge artists whose voices can be completely perfectly simulated. He'd put in all this data of 10 different songs he liked,

and he sung the parts himself, but then the AI took over with the famous voices, and he played me this song. It was a really, really hooky pop song sung by three stars I wasn't familiar with, but I'm sure young people are. And it was spooky because it was good. And so obviously that's going to affect our entire industry. And that is something that the guilds are trying to get a hold on before it gets out of control. So can you speak to that a little bit?

Sure. So look, I want to be clear about one thing. I'm a bit of a contrarian on AI. And so the first point I want to make is that AI is a marketing term that these companies made up to, you know, bundle together a bunch of like largely unrelated technologies and to make them seem like science fiction, make them seem really powerful and scary. Right. They're actually quite limited in what they can do. they're actually quite limited in what they can do. The problem is the companies that employ us intend to use this limited technology in order to put actors out of work, put writers out of work, and we can't let them do that.

So it's less about the technology and more what they're trying to do. So for actors, there's a real threat here of their likenesses being reproduced without their consent. Now, by the way, they had the power to do this like two or three years ago. If you saw the Star Wars, previous Star Wars movies, they're already doing this, right, with actors.

The buzzword AI hadn't come up yet. AI is just the crypto blockchain metaverse of 2023. You go see The Flash, you could see that shit. It's too freaking Ezra. Exactly. You know what I'm saying? It's just it's just a new form of vfx right of cgi we've had that for a long time um but it is something

that has gotten good enough that they can really use it to harm actors so a real example of this that has actually happened is that sag after voice actors who do audiobook narration uh apple took voice prints of their voices without their consent without paying them and had them narrating audiobooks that they had never read like that without paying them um and and when they discovered this they were horrified and that was really the canary in the coal mine for sag after it right um and by the way that's not like a terrible use of the technology if the person is paid because hey maybe there's a an audiobook that not that many people want to listen to but you can you know if you can do it uh, hey, maybe there's an audio book that not that many people want to listen to, but if you can do it automatically.

Or shit, maybe you don't want to do all that work and they're freaking going to pay you that one time because you got the freaking Morgan Freeman sound. Yeah, and it'll be a worse audio book because it won't have Donald's performance giving his wonderful line reading to every single line. But hey, if I just want to ingest an audio book quickly that wasn't popular enough to be done uh professionally then maybe that's not bad

right but the art has to be done with the compensation and uh consent of the artist agreed and uh so that's what sag after is fighting for uh you know one of the one of the company proposals that they literally they proposed in the room was that background actors the folks who are in the background of every scene which by the way you guys work with background actors they're professionals right these are like i these are the real these are the real people who are trying to make a living as actors in hollywood everyone else everyone else is everyone else is playing the gamble is gambling background actors are doing a nine to five for real for real they're going to work every day trying to get that money because that's what's

paying it's not not nine to five but yes but you know you know you know yeah yeah that's more like more like nine to twelve but yeah right well it depends you know and they bring their own wardrobe you know and by the way they're professionals They know how to behave on a set. They know how to take instruction from the AD. They know how to hit their marks. They are professional actors. So the company's proposed that these actors would be paid a day or half a day's wages,

have their likenesses scanned into a computer, and then the company would own their likeness and be able to reproduce it in perpetuity without ever paying them again long after they're dead uh and that is so first of all offensive to the professionalism of those actors who would also end the job of background acting and it would create worse content because do you really want to see cgi people walking around in the back of every scene because the company felt like saving a couple hundred bucks a person yeah like interesting is i noticed this i watched i remember watching a house of dragons behind the scenes thing um i think i believe it was for the there was a big joust

in in the last season and that it was incredibly done and i was curious as a filmmaker how it was achieved and one of the things i noticed is that they were showing how they built this massive crowd and they were showing how they would scan the background people, sometimes in groups of three cheering. And then they'd scan them in groups of four booing. And then they showed how they multiply, multiply, multiply, multiply to create a realistic giant crowd, which I thought was interesting. which I thought was interesting, but I never thought that I never looked at it from the point of view is that house of dragons show could then keep all of these people in their database. And next time they need a crowd,

just reuse all of those faces and likenesses without, without paying them. I never, next year they're on a, next year they're on the sex in the city reboot. Right. And they're like, hold on a second.

I only got paid for house of the dragons. They'd be in house of dragons clothing, but would be amazing i mean so yeah i mean we joke around but that's some fucked up shit man that's livelihood right there and i know yeah and i have a lot of friends that do background i've started in background i think most actors started in background yeah and that shit paid the bills man that shit you know what i mean that was how that was that was you want to talk about residuals you know what really paid the bills, man. That shit, you know what I mean? That was how, that was, you want to talk about residuals, you know what really paid the bills first? Background work.

That's how I got my SAG card. That's how I got so many things, you know what I mean? And now you're going to take the ability to freaking work away from so many people who don't get the opportunity to make it to the level of fucking Will Smith, who don't make it to the level of Tom Cruise, but still have a dream of being an actor, and you want to take that away now, too.

Whatever happened to Will Smith? Something changed in his career. Sorry. I don't know. Too soon? Well, now here's how this applies to you guys, by the way, is that for working actors such as yourselves, well, what if they use that same technology,

and long after you've shot your scene, they say, actually, I don't like how Donald read that line. Let's have him say something else. Let's have him... Yeah, that's the bullshit. By the way, that's already happening too, but I don't know if you remember that there was a movie about...

Adam, I don't even know if you know this story or any of you guys, but there was a movie about two women stuck on the top of a wind turbine or something. Oh, yes. I saw the trailer for this. I forget the name of it, but yeah. Okay, so that's the premise, right? It's genius.

It's a thriller, but the premise is just that these two women. How'd they get up on the wind turbine? I didn't watch the movie. They climbed a ladder and then a ladder fell off. And then they're like, oh, shit, how do we get down? Joelle, what's the name of that movie? I'm looking it up. It's called, I think the name of the movie is It's All Our Fault.

All right. That's the movie. So anyway, in It's All Our Fault, apparently the two gals, they were doing lots of improv because they were playing terrified. And as you would, you'd be, you're not going to just stick to the script. You'd be, and apparently they were cursing left and right as they, as they, as they riffed. And, and when they, when the people cut this movie together, it was actually testing really well and they were very pleased with their product and they thought it was going to do

what the problem was. They did not want an R movie. And these two women were cursing left and right. And so they, for the first time, I believe they were the first company to do this they hired a company that could digitally change all of the lips uh it's called fall thank you joel and they every time they cursed they changed their lips to a non-curse yep and this you can you can youtube this because i saw a video on it. And the technology was so brilliant and perfect that they went on to say that this will be what they'll be using in the future instead of

subtitles because they'll be able to change every actor's lips and have them speak the native tongue of whatever country the movie is playing in. And okay, so that's just, you know, the first example incarnation of this. But what Adam's saying is that I, as's just, you know, the first example, incarnation of this. But what Adam's saying is that I, as a filmmaker, can go, I don't love Donald's reading of that. Can you, AI, help me make him do it angrier and change it so his line is like, not today, motherfucker.

Yep. And then Donald, you're watching that going, I would never swear like that. And now my daughters are going to see this. And aren't I? And don't I look awful? Or whatever it is. I don't like the idea of putting stuff into my mouth

that I didn't agree to. That I don't like. That's the first time you've ever said that, Donald. Well, because that affects. I've agreed every time. I've agreed every time. Don't fucking start. I know in front of Adam,

you don't want to act like you don't like to put things in your mouth, but I'm sorry, Adam. Joel asked us to be on best behavior in front of you. I'm sorry. You know, the reason I think you feel that way is it's not about compensation. It's about your dignity and your professionalism and your work.

And of course what you do, if the performance, if they change your performances, even when you see what, as an actor, when you see some of the way something's cut, you go, oh, my God, they cut out the pause? Without the pause, I suck. That performance is so bad.

Without the actor taking in that pause and receiving that information, that's just editing. Now imagine you see a performance, you're like, I never fucking said that. That's horrible. That's so cringe. And, you know, that removes you as an artist right that removes your artistry it makes you a puppet for them and I think that's a really fundamental

you know abridgment of our dignity as performers you know that like you hired me because I fucking know what I'm doing and this is how I'm good you've both had those moments on that set where you're like you know what I'm not doing that you know the director says would you do this and you're like actually i'm not gonna do it yeah because i don't i don't want to be on camera doing this i'm not gonna give you the i know you're

gonna use it yep i'm not gonna give it to you i'm using my judgment as a human on your set who knows best to say as an artist i'm not doing this um and they want to take away that ability from us. And, and that's, uh, that's repugnant. Now as writers, there's a whole other set of issues, um, where, you know, the people are worried about them using a chat GPT to output scripts. Um, and the point that I like to draw here is that like chat GPT or technology is like, it cannot do the work of a writer because being a writer is a lot more than outputting a script. Being a writer is, uh, talking to the network and taking their notes. It's talking

to the director so it fits his vision. It's talking to the actors to make sure that they like the lines and working on it with them. It's going to set to say, oh, hold on a second, the way Donald said that line, it actually doesn't mean what we thought it meant when we wrote it if he uses that inflection, but we like the inflection. Let's adjust the line a little bit or whatever it is, right? Then it means going to the edit and saying, hold on a second. We're five minutes too long. What scene can we cut while having it still make sense? Ooh, let's write a little line of ADR for Donald to say. He'll come in and he'll record that and that'll make everything make sense. That's the work of a writer, right? What we're worried about is the company's saying well hold on a second chat gpt wrote a script would

you just adam uh punch it up talk to the director talk to the actor go to set go to post and do all that work oh you're not the writer though you're just a producer who's being paid less than you ever were and i'm looking at going no i'm i'm the writer right you just output me some garbage and i made it good right but you're but you're using this shitty technology as an excuse to undermine my work and that's what we're not going to allow yeah just because you're a ghost writer don't mean you didn't write that shit that's for real for real that's for real let's take a break we'll be right back after these fine words. If you've been following the news, you know that from health care access to safe schools, LGBTQ plus rights are under attack. And it's about time queer and trans youth get the microphone and tell their stories in their own words.

and tell their stories in their own words. I'm Raquel Willis. Join me on my new podcast, Queer Chronicles, a show where LGBTQ plus folks tell their own stories in their own words. This season, teens will share all about growing up in political battleground states. I wish I could feel more comfortable in my own body here, but that's just not the case. And follow along as they discover what queer and trans liberation means to them. This isn't running away from yourself. It's running into who you want to grow into. Listen to Queer Chronicles on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your most fabulous shows.

Hi, I'm Martha Stewart, and we're back with a new season of my podcast. This season will be even more revealing and more personal, with more entrepreneurs, more trailblazers, more live events, more Martha, and more questions from you. I'm talking to my cosmetic dermatologist, Dr. Dan Belkin, about the secrets behind my skincare. Walter Isaacson, about the geniuses who change the world. Encore Jane, about creating a billion-dollar startup. Dr. Elisa Pressman, about the five basic strategies to help parents raise good humans. Florence Fabrikant, about the authenticity in the world of food writing.

Be sure to tune in to season two of the Martha Stewart Podcast. Listen and subscribe to the Martha Stewart Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Across Generations, where the voices of Black women unite in powerful conversations. I'm your host, Tiffany Cross.

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Listen to Across Generations podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Now, Adam, the most urgent concern to my limited brain is that writers will be forced to begin using a smaller room of people and saying, have ChatGPT bang out an outline. Because whether it's bad or not, I mean, we fucked with it on this podcast just to be funny, saying having it write scrub scenes. Now, they're not good, but it's year one of this. And also, they do at least follow what we told them.

They do bang out a very bad version of a scene with the instructions. So to me, the beginning of the concern, especially as this thing is growing and growing and growing, and who knows what it will be in two, three years that it will be able to spit out a bad, but confident version of the scene. You told it to write that they can then be punched up so

the mandate will be adam you don't need a writer's room of 12 people you need a writer's room of three people i feel like before we before there's a sidebar to this too i think there's it's very dangerous because kids are kids are using this shit also for their lessons in school, for like, it's a cheat. You know what I mean? It's a big time cheat. And within cheating comes, I mean, we'll become

a soulless fucking population if we continue. That's a big sidebar. Let him answer my question first before we get to soulless population. I love this double. I have a minor sidebar. Do you think we're going to become a soulless population?

Donald, the answer is yes. But to Zach's question. So, look, my opinion is that, well, first of all, they're already doing that. They're already shrinking the writers room. In fact, one of the main writers guild's proposals is just to preserve the writers room and say there must be one. Because the companies have gone from, you know, having a writers room of, you know, 8 to 12 people, as you say, to saying, well, now do it with three. Now do it with two. Now, and what they're literally now paying showrunners to do they're offering them bonuses

to not have a writer's room at all and just write the whole season themselves maybe they farm out one or two scripts freelance which you for which you're paid a small percentage of what you're made for being on staff um and if we allow that to happen in a couple years that's gonna be all tv writing if you sell a show they're gonna be like all right zach write the whole thing yourself you have 15 grand you can use to you know farm out freelance scripts if you want. That's already their plan. And it's because our contract allows that to happen. And it's just the norms of how TV has been produced for the past 50 years that have protected us. But the companies have shown they want to break those norms. And so now we need to get the existence of the writer's room put into our contract. But the issue that you raised,

though, of ChatGPT being used as an excuse to do that even further, I think is a real one. I just want to really highlight. I think it's a lie because I don't think that it is possible for one of these large language models to output anything that helps like save any labor as a writer. You know, because the I think any writer knows the first draft is always fucking garbage. That's not the hard part. The hard part is every other piece of it. If I'm taking a, if it's my choice as a writer to start with some chat GPT output and punch it up myself, sure, I can take that choice. I don't think I'm saving myself any fucking time by doing that because the hard part is the originality that I add, you know, like, look, I'll just talk about it as a comedy writer. Okay. As a comedy writer,

you have to write so many jokes, right? Joke after joke after joke. And every joke you write has to be on some level, a new joke. If you're telling a joke people have heard before, they don't laugh, right? People want a new joke every time. How do you write a new joke? You think about the specifics of the situation. You think about who your audience is. You think you, you figure out here's what they think of the situation. Here's what will strike them as fun. Okay. If I'm writing late night, Ted Cruz did something in the news. Okay. What did he do? What does the audience think of Ted Cruz? What does this remind them of in their own lives? That's going to be a surprising thing. I can compare it to right. Uh, The way Trevor Noah's jokes would always be like, this is like when your mom would

be blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you'd like, you know, do some dating reference or something like that, right? That is a magic trick every time. It is one of the most complex cultural things to have to do is to figure out how to write a new joke that'll make people laugh. And Chad GPT will never be able to do it. So it'll always be an immense amount of work on a human writer to write a joke that is going to bring delight to people in the way that we do. I hear you, man. I just hope that, you know, I just think of year one of the cell phone compared to what we now have in our pockets. And I think of what Chad GPT could become in five, 10 years. Think of what AI can become in five, 10, 15 years. If weaponized, I mean, this shit is like,

it's already being weaponized against actors and writers. Daniel's laughing because you just steered it to military reasons. It absolutely is. But here's just what I'd like, here's just the point I'd like to make. Go ahead. Is that the iPhone was built on pre-existing technology, right? It was not like some new,

it wasn't like they invented the wheel or they invented cold fusion or something, right? It was a business decision to put these things together this way. And so what we should be afraid of is not artificial intelligence technology run amok. It's the business practices of these companies using the technology to hurt us and hurt other people. intelligence technology run amok. It's the business practices of these companies using

the technology to hurt us and hurt other people. If you accept too much of this technological argument, you can be tricked into thinking, oh, we should just accept whatever they say because the technology is coming. No, people are choosing to make these decisions and we can force them to choose otherwise by using our collective power. Yeah. Well, that's the power of the union. That's the whole point of being in this union, that we pay lots of money and dues. Sounds like you're trying to wrap up, Zach. I'm just going to put it out there. It sounds like you're trying to wrap up.

Well, we do have to let Adam go. I'm going to be honest with you. Well, I'm not wrapping up. I'm segwaying into the point where my tone suggests that we don't want to take up too much of Adam's time. I mean, that sounds a bit like a wrap up, bud. No, my tone is we can continue talking, but Adam probably has lots of important things to do.

That's my tone. Wait, I want to ask Joelle. Joelle gave us some good questions, and I want to make sure I hit some of them. Please do. What has surprised you most during this experience? You've been on strike now for 13 weeks. Is there things that have happened that have made you go, I was not expecting that?

I mean, SAG-AFTRA joining the strike was not something that in my wildest dreams I would have thought was happening. As a SAG-AFTRA member, if you had asked me six months ago, I'd say no way is it ever going to happen. And the leadership of our union really stepped up in order to call the strike and to show our power. It was amazing to see, to see Fran and Duncan and all of them.

Go ahead. Yeah, dude. If you would have asked the night before, if SAG after was going to strike, you would, everybody would be like, nah,

that's it. Yeah. And then that paper came through. Oh my God. Are you surprised that um the directors guilds of america which i am a part of as well didn't strike i was not surprised that by that because that's their strategy that is the strategy that they've historically used as a union and and i you know as a guy who thinks a lot about labor it's it's not the strategy that i think gets the biggest gains for members i think you get the biggest gains when you are willing to take a strike vote and you know threaten to go on

strike if necessary and then be willing to pull the trigger if it comes to that but um you know that's uh uh that union operates a different way the teamsters didn't strike right they didn't strike the teamsters just uh announced a tentative deal with ups today if that might be what you're talking about. 350,000 Teamsters were about to go on strike against UPS, and they just announced today that they got the biggest deal in their history. And the reason they got such a big deal is because

they brought a credible threat of going on strike. They say, either you give us what we want, or we're fucking striking. And UPS blinked and gave it to them. And that's what the Writers Guild does in a good year. And that's what I'm really happy that SAG-AFTRA and said we're going to strike and the you know try us and the companies tried them and and that's what happened i mean every day in this strike there's been new surprises new pieces of support people support coming in from all angles the public support has been enormous the the support in

the press has been enormous like we're we're. We're, we're unstoppable because everything has been trending in our favor every day. And that's not something I expected when we started. All right. Here's another good Joelle question. How can people outside of Los Angeles, um, I think she means also outside of the entertainment industry. Um, um, cause you know, we have people in Atlanta, New York, everywhere, Joelle, come on. industry um because you know we have people in atlanta new york everywhere joelle come on how can people outside of the entertainment industry um show their support for both unions yeah uh this is a great question and actually zach it's it gives me an opportunity to answer a question you asked earlier in terms of support for other crew members um because there's a lot of folks who are affected by the strike who are not actors and not writers right there's crew

members there's pas and there's you know folks who cater you know film shoots and etc they're all uh suffering because of the strike um and so we raise money for a fund called the entertainment community fund it's a wonderful fund that's existed in la and new york for 140 years anybody in the country who works in the entertainment industry who is on hard times having trouble paying rent or their medical bills can apply to it for cash assistance. And we are raising money for that fund. We've raised over $3 million so far. But if you would like to contribute, your money will go directly to an affected entertainment industry worker.

I believe the link is entertainmentcommunity.org. Correct. Isn't there a Screen Actors Guild found? Yes. I play golf for it every year, and it's the same type of situation, isn't it? Yep, yep. The SAG-AFTRA Foundation.

The SAG-AFTRA Foundation you can donate to as well. It's a very similar fund, and that money will go to support actors specifically. Yeah. And The Rock, I heard, just gave a bunch of money to one of those funds. No, or something.

Yeah. Seven figures. We're hearing, we don't have an exact number. I was generous with him. Donald, don't try and get that money to fix up your patio. Cause I know you're working on your patio.

Don't try and get that rock money. Listen, man, listen, man, don't wrap up. All right. Listen,

I'm Daniel wants us to clarify, because Daniel's very wise, that a deal has been reached for UPS, but it still needs to be approved by the majority of the union. Oh, for the Teamsters, yeah. But that's still progress. It's definitely progress. But my understanding is that a lot of the Teamsters

were holding out for a hard line of $25 an hour, and this current deal is $21 an hour, going up to 23 eventually. So there's a good chance that a lot of the hardliners might be like, no, 25 or nothing. So we'll see. We'll see. And that, by the way, is part of what's so powerful about a union, because unions are democracies, right? So when the leadership of a union goes and makes a deal, the membership then gets to vote on it. And if the membership doesn't like the deal, they will vote no and, you know, reject the deal. And then the leadership has to go back to the table. And so that's why, you know, our leadership of our two

unions can't just go and cut our legs out from under us. Like it, you know, it depends on what the workers actually need. It's one of the things that makes a union so powerful. Let's take a break. We'll be right back after these fine words. If you've been following the news, you know that from health care access to safe schools, LGBTQ plus rights are under attack. And it's about time queer and trans youth get the microphone and tell their stories in their own words. I'm Raquel Willis. Join me on my new podcast, Queer Chronicles, a show where LGBTQ plus folks tell their own stories in their own words. This season, teens will share all about growing up in political battleground states. I wish I could feel more comfortable in my own body here, but that's just not the case.

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Seven questions, limitless answers. Are you in the quote-unquote room where it happens for the WGA? Yeah. And how many of you are in the quote-unquote room where it happens for the WGA? Yeah. And how many of you are in the room, roughly? I believe we've got 17 or 18 negotiating committee members from the Writers Guild West and East, and there's also our staff members as well. And then how many do they have?

How many do the AMTPS have? AMPTP, they have about a half dozen lawyers just from the AMPTP and then lawyers also from you know netflix disney amazon right so it's a big room room together yeah it's a big heated do people ever stand up and go you can't handle the truth so look the actual negotiating room is very formal right we go in and we present our proposals our proposal one is this our proposal two is that and then they they say, thank you. And then we leave the room

and then we go back in later and they respond to the proposals. Our response to proposal one is rejected. Our response to proposal two is rejected. You know? That's not very dramatic. For a bunch of dramatic people, that's not very dramatic.

I'm about to say, shit, man. It's lawyers. When does the fire happen? I bet you in the SAG one. But none of y'all, I'm about SAG. I bet you in the SAG one,

the nanny's like fuck you motherfuckers you bastards I think there was a little bit more of that I think there was a little bit more of that with Fran Fran doesn't fuck around you know Fran's standing on a desk yelling at people say what

what happens in that room is kind of secondary because those people in that negotiating room are the no machine the only reason they're in there their job is to say no over and over and over again and they're hired by the ceos who are not in the room right right our job is to put pressure on the ceos and we do that by being on the picket line so i mean here's the question right but here's the thing is there ever a chance that you know you're gonna're going to see any of the CEOs or anything like that? No.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's the point. Yeah. That's the point. When do you start running up on people? Like, when does that happen? When does on-site become a situation? I think it starts happening very soon, right?

Because the whole point is, I don't want to get too deep into the labor weeds for your audience but the amp tp is an outsourcing organization right ted sarandos bob eiger all of them they hire this company called the amp tp to do their labor negotiations for them and to say no for them so they don't ever have to think about it they just get to float around on their yachts be on the top story of their buildings right while someone else handles it and our entire goal is to get them off the bench is to make them get involved by pressing the issue until it's literally such a fucking problem for ted sarandos he has to call bob eiger then go what are we gonna do and then

they have to call us right and that's what is about to happen because again this strike currently is unprecedented uh the amptp failed in itsTP failed in its mission to stop a dual strike. And they've lost all credibility. And now those CEOs have to get involved. So this is literally going to end when, you know, in a conversation with that Ted Sarandos and Iger and, you know, Sherry Redstone and all of them are involved in. Don't these, isn't there an algorithm of sorts where their cfos and money people are going listen we we can afford and and prepare to recoup

in these creative ways this amount of money but once it goes beyond that we're in you know our stock's going to be affected i mean aren't they running all those kind of numbers and going all right we can let them suffer until november you know i mean i'm just pulling that out of my ass but oh they look they cannot let this go on all right like like they did have that plan with the writers guild their plan with the writers guild always let's hold them off three months before we even talk to them sag after again striking is not something they predicted and i don't believe they have the ability to weather it at all um now they always they all will always will do those projections you know and and those are projections that are designed to tell you no

right what we can't afford it for x y and z reason but all that matters is what are we willing to work with and without right all all that matters is uh what are writers and actors willing to countenance? You know, are we willing to work for less than this? And if the answer is no, then, you know, we're going to get what we want. Because, you know, all that matters at the end of the day is us using our power and saying, look, if you don't give us what we want, we're not fucking going back to work. Right. Unless these companies want to stop making American film and television entirely, they're going to have to bargain with us and make a deal that we can accept. And that's going to be the end game no matter what. It's going to happen sooner rather than later.

But, you know, that's that that is the last thing I want. Adam, thank you so much. Last I wanted to ask you was I'm hearing that certain indie movies are being getting a waiver because they are independent of all of these conglomerates and they are somehow giving SAG what they're asking for in the contracts. Can you explain that? How, how indies are getting waivers? Do you understand? Sure. So I only know about this, what I've read in the trades because i'm not part of this decision making process in sag but i can explain it a little bit um that uh for companies that they feel are not affiliated with the amp tp they are assigning them to an interim agreement which says we will agree to whatever your final agreement is with the amp tp and they're continuing to workAFTRA's view seems to be that this will put more pressure on the majors because these

other, you know, independent companies, so, you know, so-called independent companies are making, you know, films outside of the system and it's going to encourage, you know, the big, the big players like Universal and Paramount to come back to the table sooner. Personally, very personally, I don't think that strategy is going to work that well because unfortunately a lot of those movies are still going to end up on Netflix and Apple TV and all these other services. They're still part of the pipeline that the ANPTP companies are making money off of. So I don't think it's a great strategy. By the way, this is something the Writers Guild tried in 2007 and 8 and the reason

we're not doing it this year is because we feel it didn't work during the 2007 and 8 strike and so that's a disagreement I have however I think that it's ultimately not going to matter that much because we're talking about 30 projects or so

when the reality is tens of thousands of product projects are stopped down right now um so uh there's also a couple of them that are happening there was one for apple tv called tehran which my understanding is like the real problem there was that it was in a country where the strike couldn't have been enforced um because it was shooting overseas and so there was some jurisdiction there's some shows like House of Dragon. I don't know why I keep bringing that show up today, but I am. That is not SAG. It's a fully English union.

So they're continuing. And I think I know that it doesn't I know this strike doesn't affect commercials. And I think animation as well. I think those are separate contracts, if I'm not mistaken. Luckily, the animators are getting together to start their own union, which is really exciting. Well, it's about time. I'm going to be honest with you. That's something that animators don't have.

And animators are shit-a-ton for their work. And some of these guys do hours that you and me. And gals. Yep. You know what I meant. Some of these people. Let me put it that way. And non-binary.

There's a lot of non-binary animators. I have met many. Okay. Look. Some of these human beings. Yes. Okay. split that way and non-binary there's a lot of non-binary animators i have met many okay look some of these human beings okay we can all agree there come on donald thank you some of these human beings are working their asses off for hours and hours and hours and getting paid very very little you want to talk about no dough try making a living as an animator dude it's almost impossible and about these vfx companies that always seem to go out of business after a giant movie comes out because they just can't pay their bills and let me correct you a little bit joel

they actually do have a union there is a union called the animation guild but historically it has been a union that unfortunately has not been a real fighting union um and what the people in the animation guild are doing now is they are fighting their asses off they are they are saying we want our union to fight for us yeah if you read some of the stories on how these people are treated at some of these animation houses man you can find them online if anybody's interested like i am because i'm so into animation you just just just the disrespect that these people that a lot of these people receive for their hard-earned work is just as deplorable as what we're seeing going on with SAG and the Writers Guild. When I brought up animation, I meant the SAG contract with animated things, I believe, is a different contract.

I'm talking about the actual animators and creators i know i just want to clarify my point and to further clarify cartoon network and warner brothers animators specifically have gone to the national labor relations board and asked to form a union so they're in the process of trying to move away from the established union and create one like in-house for cartoon network and and Warner Brothers. Got it. Yeah. So there's a lot of activism happening in animation that like, I'm not even all up to speed yet. I mean, this is one of the really cool things about this strike is that we are showing that we have power and that we are going to use that power to get what we need. And us as writers and actors, we're lucky because our unions have been around and powerful for 90,

almost a 100 years. But what's happening now is folks from all other parts of the entertainment industry and other industries around the country are watching what we're doing and saying, oh, this is something we can do, too, if we step up. So I've literally talked to choreographers, music supervisors, post-production workers. These are folks in our industry who don't have unions, and are forming unions um and take it which is much harder that's the hardest thing to do is start a union from scratch but they're doing it because they're seeing oh my god look at what you can do if you have a union and so that's one of my favorite things about uh what we're what we're doing right now adam thank you so much for coming on sounds like you're wrapping up i am going to wrap up um we can stay on for a second and chat, but Adam, thank you so much. And I'm not allowed to promote it, but I am intrigued by how articulate you are. And I am going to watch your show and go back and go do a deep dive on all your work.

Thank you so much. And just if I can do a little plug, I am a touring standup comedian, which is one of the few kinds of work I can do during the strike. So if you live in Buffalo, St. Louis, Providence, Rhode Island, come see me, adamconover.net, for tickets and tour dates. Go see Adam, guys, because he's clever. He's smart. Wait till you get your eyes on him. He's a looker. He is a looker.

Yeah. All right, Adam, thank you so much, brother. We really appreciate this. Thank you. Thank you. Pleasure being here. Thank you. Thanks, Adam. Thank you. Thank you so much, brother. We really appreciate this. Thank you. Thank you. Pleasure being here. Thank you. Thanks, Adam.

Joelle. Great job producing Joelle, getting Adam as a guest. Thank you. I was very excited. You really came through. It's fabulous. We needed it. We needed.

Yeah, Donald's right. It was perfect. We needed someone who knew their shit like that. And you came through. We also needed it because I know our listeners out there are like, well, what the fuck's going on with fake doctors right now? What are they doing over there? Right. So we are going to not talk about scrubs for

a while until the strike is over, but we're going to talk about other interesting things, Donald. Got a great guest lined up for next week. We have a really good guest for next week. I'm very excited. Let's just say Tom Cruise. It's not Tom Cruise. It's not Tom Cruise.

But we could build to that. Listen, we are going to build an empire, Donald. And we're going to start. Can I be the emperor? Yes, you can be. I'm willing to be the. Lord Vader? I don't.

Oh, I see. It all goes back to Star Wars. Yes, you can be. You can be the emperor. Is the emperor higher than? Lord Vader, yes, than everyone. Emperor is the highest. Unlimited power!

What's that guy who's not the emperor, but he was in the last big Star Wars movie, and he was like a hologram, and he feels like the emperor? I'm not Snoke. Snoke. Snoke. Snookie. Snookie. He was on Jersey Shore too.

Snookie. Was Snoke higher than the Emperor? No. Snoke was created by the Emperor. Oh, I want to be Snoke. You can be the Emperor. I created Snoke. Is Snoke higher than Vader? No. Well, Vader's dead by the time Snoke comes out, so there's not really competition.

I need a family tree, Joelle. Can you draw one for me? You know who you need to be? You could be freaking Tarkin. Grand Moff Tarkin. Donald and Casey gave me a really nice belated birthday present. Oh. What did you get?

Well, they know that I really love Land Rover Defenders. I'm a big fan of them, especially the old D90s. And they got me a Land Rover Defender D90 Lego set. Oh. Whoa. That's so cool. That's really nice. That's very cool.

Guess what I'm going to be doing whilst I strike? Are you building a Lego set? Oh, hell yeah. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. Love some Legos. Listen, Donald, I love you. I love you too, bro.

You know what I've been watching? Listen, I never get into these reality shows, okay? Ever. My whole life, I never watched reality shows. But someone gave me a taste of the crack. What are you watching? Do you love Island? I never watched reality shows. But someone gave me a taste of the crack. What are you watching? Do you love Island? I can't stop watching.

No, Below Deck Mediterranean. Oh, you're Below Deck, yeah. All right, well. He's on that yacht. These people, Donald, they fight. They all hook up. Some of them have yachts. Motherfucker, I'm still watching Dance Moms

I didn't realize that there were that many seasons I'm looking at Below Deck I'm looking at Below Deck which is my crack problem my strike crack problem and there's so many seasons and I'm like I gotta get off of this but look how many seasons there are

these aren't SAG shows are they? we're allowed to watch this aren't we? these people are not SAG, but some of them do have... These people do have gats, some of them. The goal is not to promote anything a studio is currently promoting. Well, I think we're okay with

Below Deck, Joel. I'll take the heat. We're not okay with Dance Moms. It's up to you guys. It's your union. I will take the heat. I'm not fucking around. If Fran Drescher calls me about talking about below deck med, it's my fault.

Great. Guys, we love you. We love you listeners. Thank you for tuning in. We hope you were educational. That's what we're trying to be. And 5, 6, 7, 8. Here's some stories about a show we made. About a bunch of doctors and nurses in a Canada who love to hate. I said here's the stories that we all should know.

So gather round to hear our, gather round to hear our Scrubs Rewatch Show with Zach and Donald. Mm-hmm. Scrubs Rewatch Show with, and more. Now this is a second term we can all get behind. Listen to The Daily Show, ears edition, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Martha Stewart, and we're back with a new season of my podcast. This season will be even more revealing and more personal with more entrepreneurs, more live events,

and more questions from you. I'm talking to my cosmetic dermatologist, Dr. Dan Belkin, about the secrets behind my skincare. Encore Jane about creating a billion-dollar startup. Walter Isaacson about the geniuses who changed the world. Listen and subscribe to the Martha Stewart Podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Truck stop brothels run by a web of ex-cons. A Commonwealth attorney wasted on whiskey and power.

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