Fake Doctors, Real Friends with Zach and Donald - 2023: My Surgeon General with Vice Admiral Vivek H. Murthy, MD, MBA

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

On this week’s episode, we had the honor of sitting down with Vice Admiral Vivek H. Murthy, MD, MBA to discuss why people are so lonely, how social media is impacting the youth, and discuss the horrifying rise in suicide rates amongst teens. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Anyway, are you going to watch the Marvel film Donald Faison? Well, you know, we did hang out with Brie Larson at that Taylor Swift concert. Are you going to go watch the Marvels film, Donald Faison? Well, you know, we did hang out with Brie Larson at that Taylor Swift concert. That has nothing to do with whether you're going to go see the movie or not. It looks dope. I'm not going to lie. Joelle, are you going to go see Marvels? What's it called? Ms. Marvel?

The Marvels. The Marvels. The Marvels. I'm going to be honest with you. I wasn't a huge fan of Captain Marvel. Okay. The first one. There comes your honesty. Jo with you. I wasn't a huge fan of Captain Marvel. Okay. The first one. There comes your honesty.

Joelle, what were your thoughts on Captain Marvel? Liked it, but not a perfect movie at all. It did make a billion dollars at the box office, though, so I think it's weird when people are like, this is what killed the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Like, it made a billion dollars. Yeah, but that was back when Marvel was making a billion dollars every movie, though. That is also true.

That is also fair. That's back when every movie, no matter what happened, they were dropping a billion dollars every movie though you gotta remember also true that is back when every movie no matter what happened they were dropping a billion i saw an item joelle and daniel and donald that said and this could be total bullshit i need you guys to tell me it said that the new marvel universe is thinking about bringing back their big stars i heard including all those people they killed off they're thinking about bringing them all back. It would be the worst thing they could possibly do. Well, you know what? That's what comic books do, though.

That's how comic books are. You know, they kill off characters and then they bring them back. And, you know, it doesn't surprise me that that's what. Imagine the check for Robert Downey Jr. They're talking about rebooting Star Wars, bro. It's going to be through the roof. They're talking about. Imagine Robert Downey Jr.'s check to just show up.

So much. I want that. He doesn't need money. I want that. I want that. How about that? He doesn't need money. He's going to be like, I'm out of ideas.

He's like, I'm out of ideas. How about an island? No. He's probably owned one. He probably owns one already. He probably got two. Right. He's like, I'm out of ideas.

How about Mars? There is now. How about a planet? Pluto? It's not even a planet anymore. Just kidding, Pluto I'm out of ideas. How about Mars? There is now. How about a planet? Pluto? It's not even a planet anymore. Just give me Pluto. Just give me Pluto. He's like, I'm out of ideas, you guys.

You've given me so much money. How about Pluto? Right. Do you think they collect residuals? I'll do a cameo. Do you think they would collect residuals on that shit? Hell no. On Pluto?

I'm in New York City, everybody. But the weather's gotten cold, so there's no ice cream truck. Do-do-do-do-do-do-do. Yeah, get the hell out of here. Oh, nice. That fucker takes the winter off. He probably does something else. Probably selling hot dogs.

As long as he doesn't play a song when he does it, I'm fine. Donald, I know how much you love ganja, and I have to say, you can walk around lower Manhattan and you might get two breaths without the smell of weed, but you're not going to get a third.

The weed carts are wild out there. It's just everywhere. I grew up in that Yo, I grew up in that city. Everywhere. I grew up in that city, and we smoked weed back in the day like a mofo show. Yeah, but you at least were a little bit covert. Yeah, because you go to jail for a really long time for weed. Now that it's decriminalized in New York City, I mean-

It's not decriminalized. It's legal. Recreational legal. There's a weed shop. legal I there's a weed shop every third store is a weed shop it's like I know it's probably

an overcorrection but it is really and I don't mean to sound like a grumpy old man but it is really unbelievable how many people are so high

on a given moment on the island of Manhattan well if you if people walk the streets of LA it would be the same thing I promise you yeah because there's

no pedestrians there right I promise you there Yeah, because there's no pedestrians there, right? I promise you. They wrote a song about that. Nobody walks in LA. And they also wrote a song about how it doesn't rain in Southern California, but I hear El Nino's coming. El Nino's coming to LA? Yeah, man.

You might want to keep your ass in New York City, bro. That shit is on its way all winter long, El Nino. You look very cute in your little hoodie. Motherfucker, you look like you've been working out. Your shoulders are all broad. I have been working out. You want to see? Show me that shit.

Show me that. Go on, motherfucker. Go on. Oh, damn. Okay. That's a motherfucker pushing 50 with a six pack. I'm having a glow up. Glow up. that's what happens

when you single um i'm just getting in shape i mean and we're on strike there's nothing i can do i feel like my job is exercising you know i've been animating a lot uh a lot a lot i'm taking classes with justin uh rosh um he's the dude that did the stop motion for you know that scene in pinocchio with the monkey doing the swing the thing that was all over the place when that movie was coming out yeah he's teaching me right now along with my buddy jacob yo i'm learning some shit man i'm also learning like even in stop motion animation no is so so far. I mean, you think as an actor, you hear no a lot. Stop motion animation, if you don't get the shot right, no. But you just put in five hours of work.

I had to equate that to, well, you know, I put about three hours of work in when I have auditions to go on an audition to hear no. So it's kind of the same thing. But this shit is fun man i'm doing i'm living the dream right now you love it and you can't i have a question for i've never asked you you can't go back right if you fucked up one like sequence of four frames and then you did the whole sequence can you go back and be like you can put it put the puppet in that exact position and try and fix it or it doesn't look good you can, and if you're really skilled at mapping out what your puppets doing, it's really easy to do. But for the most part, you set a plan and you build a roadmap, but then halfway through

you're improvising. You know what I mean? Stop motion is mostly improvising with some sort of, with some sort of guideline. So you develop a plan and you try to attack the plan head on, but sincerely halfway through, you're like, I'm winging it right now. Right. Is that how all the pros do it? It's kind of like it's improvisational. I mean, they know that the puppet has to climb up to the tree and the monkey has to swing and grab a flower, right? But there's no rules to

that he's just kind of free flow there are a lot of rules to it depending on i mean to execute i'm saying to execute it but i'm saying like it's up to the individual artist to interpret how he's going to do that right right but then the director could be like wow that's really cool that's not what i want can you do it this way right that's not the style of the thing right it's a very it's a very very very very long process but i mean i mean if you love it you love it man like my ankles were swollen and shit from standing on the same standing you should get one of those mats that they have for people in the kitchen and shit yeah yeah with those kitchen mats when someone has to do dishes all the time i I know. I know.

I freaking can't believe it. All right, we have a very, I can't believe that we have this guest. We did it big, dude. We must have gotten big because the Surgeon General of the United States of America. We did it all the way up to the US government, yo. Bam, in your face. This guy's friends with Obama. All I'm trying to say is that he's talked to a lot of presidents before, I'm sure.

Do you remember the surgeon? Well, I want to talk to him about this. But do you remember the surgeon? What's the only thing you can remember about surgeon generals? Sierra Coop. That's the only one I remember. No, it was C. Everett Coop, right? Is that what you said?

It's not Sierra. I thought it was C. Era. C. Everett Coop. By the way, we're the same age, and that's all I could remember, too. And he was the guy who put this, I think, the cigarette thing on the cigarettes. Surgeon General says, this shit will make you kill you. Give you cancer. Yeah.

Right? C. Everett Koop. I couldn't believe I pulled that out of my butt. I know what he looks like, too. I don't know what he looks like. I just remember? C. Everett Koop. I couldn't believe I pulled that out of my butt. I know what he looks like, too. I don't know what he looks like. I just remember the name was like Sierra Koop. And I was like, that's a pretty sick name. But it's C. Everett Koop.

You thought his name was Sierra? Yeah, Sierra Koop. Well, ladies and gentlemen, our podcast has gotten fancy enough. Fake doctors, real friends, that we have the Surgeon General of the United States of America on. Is he in the waiting room right now? He is. Ha! We got that motherfucker on hold, yo!

Yeah, make him wait. Make that moment. Just don't tell him to let him in. 5, 6, 7, 8! Here's some stories about a show we made About a bunch of docs and nurses and a janitor who loved to hate I said here's some stories that we all should know There we go. Oh, my goodness.

Oh, wow. Hey, Zach. Oh, my goodness. Look at you. You got like the whole background. You're standing in front of it. It looks like you're in the briefing room. Yes.

This is where I do a lot of my podcasts from. It's good. You're really in your house. You're really in your house and you just got a blue screen thing up. Don't keep it 100%. Well, I'm really in a movie theater and the show's about to start, but I figure I'll do the jump right in. You're going to have to keep it down. Well'm really in a movie theater and the show's about to start but i figure i'll do keep it down jump right in to keep it down um well welcome to our show we're so honored you're here um make sure i'm pronouncing your name right it's vivek murthy yeah thank you that's perfect

and you are the surgeon general of the united states of america thunderous applause we're gonna add some thunderous applause. Right now, Daniel. Thank you so much for coming. You're probably the fanciest guest we've ever had on the show. We did it big. And we've had Brendan Fraser on the show. We had Brendan Fraser on, but I think you're cooler.

I'm sorry, Brendan Fraser. I'm going to keep it 100 with you. I think that you're cooler. Well, you know, he's a pretty big deal. So I don't really think about myself as fancy and my kids remind me of that often so you know no you're fancy dude you're very fancy you're very very fancy we're one degree we're one degree separation away from the president that's all we keep thinking um donald and i were just ruminating we were growing up um there was c everett coop and he

donald just admitted that he thought his name was Sierra Coop. I thought it was Sierra. But I couldn't believe that. I pulled that name out of my head, C Everett Coop. And I Googled him because I was interested in, I learned this, Donald didn't tell you that I believe he was the first surgeon to separate conjoined twins.

Did you know that Vivek? He did not know that about him, actually. That's really interesting. Where were they conjoined at? Were they conjoined at the hip because there's a difference i don't know but at the shoulder because once the heart and head and brain are involved joelle can look it up for us i'm sure it was it was the first time it was done i believe joelle please check that out for me vivek have you done something like that what's your i have not I have not separated anyone later in life or at any point.

What do you do? Were you a surgeon before you got this position? So I wasn't. I was an internal medicine doctor. That meant that I took care of adult patients and I specialized in hospital based medicine. So I took care of patients once they were admitted to the hospital. So that meant they're usually sicker. So I took care of patients once they were admitted to the hospital. So that meant they're usually sicker. There's usually a more complicated sort of situation going on. But that's where I practiced for many years before joining the government. And were you Surgeon General with Obama as well?

I was. So I served as Surgeon General during his second term, President Obama's second term. And then President Biden asked me to come back to serve in the role when he took office, which was in the throes of COVID. And there's a lot happening when it came to public health in the country. So that's why I came back. So you didn't serve with Trump at all? No. Well, technically speaking, I did serve for the first three, three and a half months of the Trump administration because the Surgeon General's term actually doesn't go follow the political calendar. So it doesn't tie in with a president's sort of time in office. It's independent of that.

So my term actually extended past when President Obama left office. And that's why I served for a few months into the Trump administration. I wasn't there for the vast majority of his tenure as president. And during COVID, when COVID hit, I was a private citizen on the outside, which I'll tell you was tough in some ways. Because sometimes when you're in a role, and then you step out of it, and then a problem comes up that you could have addressed when you're in your role, you're like, oh gosh, I wish I could have been back in that role. Maybe I could have helped a bit. So I find myself thinking about that in the first year, but thanks to President Biden, I had an opportunity to come back and hopefully do some good.

That's really interesting because in the movies, they make it seem like once you're in office, you kind of got a way back in, not like back into office, but you could call the Attorney General like hey bro, look, so listen. I'm at home. I'm freaking out. But I got ideas. Let me come in. Why don't we get C. Everett on the phone? We all come

in and we talk this out. I don't think C. Everett's with us anymore. I'm not sure. But, um, Joel. C. Everett Koop passed away. I don't sure. But, Joel... Sierra Coop passed away. I don't know about the whereabouts of Sierra Coop, though. Yeah, Sierra Coop is thriving. So, wait, will you just tell our audience, because

I'm sure people are wondering about what it is that you do. Oh, wait, Joel is telling me. I want to answer the trivia here. The first recorded successful separation of conjoined twins was carried out. Oh, by Swiss surgeon. So, Joelle, I don't have that right. So he was the first one to do Siamese twins joined at the heart specifically.

Oh, well, that's very impressive. That's the deal. Why are you trying to minimize what I said? I'm trying to make sure I got the right information. What is 1686? First conjoined twins. First conjoins by the heart. Vivek, will you tell our listeners who might only know of the term surgeon general from the cigarette pack warning, what it is that you do?

Because I've Googled it a bit, but explain it to people. Absolutely. And that is actually how a lot of people first hear about the rule is they hear about warning labels that are on cigarette boxes or on alcohol bottles or cans. But the rule really has two primary responsibilities. The first is to connect with the public and communicate with the public about critical public health issues. That could be like HIV and tobacco when C. Everett Koop was Surgeon General. It could be about other issues like COVID-19 and mental health, mental health being the one that I focused on a lot during my time.

The second role, though, of the Surgeon General is much less known, and that is actually to oversee one of the eight uniformed services in the U.S. government. So many, you may be familiar with the Army, the Navy, the Air Force. Those are some of our uniformed services. But one of them is also the United States Public Health Service Commission Corps. These are 6,000 uniformed officers who are nurses, doctors, physical therapists, pharmacists, and public health experts, public health engineers. And they actually serve in public health roles all across the country. And we deploy them during times of emergency, when there's an earthquake or a tornado during COVID-19 after 9-11. These are all times we deployed many of our officers to help provide direct care and shore up the public health system. So the Surgeon General has the privilege of overseeing that uniformed service. So that's actually the reason why I wear this uniform. It's not because

of my role as a public health communicator. It's because I oversee the U.S. Public Health Service. You are literally a Surgeon General. Well, it's very interesting. So this is the funny thing about that term. It's Surgeon General. I'm actually not a surgeon. I'm an internal medicine doc. And I'm actually not a general. I'm an admiral, because that's the way that our ranks work in the public health service. I'm so confused right now. It's very confusing. So you should be called an internal admiral. Right? What the heck? Let's call Biden. Let's call Biden. I want to straighten this out.

I know he's got a couple of things on his plate right now, but if you could just text him, I want to change the name of you to internal admiral. Well, that's why I said at the beginning, just call me Vivek. It's a lot easier. I was about to say the outfit. The uniform is very nice looking. You look very sharp. And I've noticed this before I've even ever met you today. I always thought that you looked very sharp in that coat. Oh, that's very nice of you to say.

I appreciate that, Sam. Yeah. Sorry, Donald didn't dress up. He's in his hoodie. I didn't get the memo that Vivek was going to come in on the show with a freaking blazer on. But you've seen images of Vivek before. He's always dressed really nicely in that uniform. I had no clue he was coming on with the uniform. had no clue wait i first have a question about cigarettes you know

when you go to other countries i've just made a movie recently in montreal and oh my goodness their cigarette warning packets are so intense and i wonder why you haven't upped the game because you just yours just say like, I don't know what they say currently. Maybe you could get cancer. This could lead to cancer and birth defects. I'm sure you've seen how other countries are rolling. In Canada, that shit's like,

you're going to die, you smoked this. No, they have an image of like a crying child next to their parents' bed. They tell a whole story on these cigarette packages. You smoked this, you could talk like this next. Yes, they don't fuck around. I'm wondering if there's been any discussion of bringing

our level of warnings on cigarette packages up to the European-Canadian level. Last thing, weren't we at a moment where cigarettes had dropped off and vaping had happened and then now vaping is just as dangerous? Let's get into the whole thing on smoking. cigarettes had dropped off and vaping had happened and then now vaping is just as dangerous like let's get into the whole thing on smoke well first answer my question then answer donald's

these are awesome questions by the way so first is that you're totally right many other countries have graphic warning labels not just text they've got pictures that really bring home why cigarettes are bad for you and frankly bad for the people around you. I would love for us to do that in the United States, but there are some legal challenges with us actually doing that. And I'll tell you one thing without getting into all the gory details of this, is that the tobacco industry has a lot of money that they put toward sort of making the case for them continuing to sell their products and to try to minimize the kind of warnings or signals or messages that might dissuade people from tobacco products. And, you know, they have fought tooth and nail against graphic warning labels. And in our country so far, that has actually blocked us or prevented us.

Wow. I wouldn't have guessed that was the reason. I mean, that's so fucked up. Sorry. I'm sorry to curse in front of you. No, it's okay. I just think, so other countries have been able to get them by because they're on packets of Marlboro or whatever in Montreal, in Canada, when I was in Montreal. But you're saying in the United States, they've successfully said legally you can't do that?

Yeah, so it's complicated and tied up in free speech arguments etc that they're you know that have been tried folks have tried to use those kind of arguments to say you can't put graphic warning labels on these uh you know on these cigarette boxes now from a purely public health perspective and again i'm not a lawyer i'm not going to claim to be a lawyer but from a purely public health perspective we know that graphic warning labels are more effective. They scare the shit out of you. That's real talk. More clearly.

But this is where, just more broadly, I worry because, look, tobacco is not just a problem in the U.S., right? It's a problem, across the population. You're in a much, you're much worse off. You're vulnerable. So this is a problem where I think the industry, look, there really is no, from a health perspective, there's no redeeming positive quality of tobacco. What it does is it contributes to our risk of death, disability, and disease. We've known that for a long time, but every time we put out a new Surgeon General's report on tobacco, we find more and more diseases that are made more likely if you use tobacco. Like in 1964,

when the first report came out, it was just about cancer, right? It was about lung cancer in particular. But now we know it's multiple types of cancers. It's diabetes. It's heart disease. It's a whole host of conditions that are made worse by, and you're at more risk of really when you use tobacco products. So I worry that to get to Donald's question that, you know, sometimes people think as they hear about all the other public health issues out there, they think, oh, cigarettes, wasn't that a problem? Like back in the day, didn't we solve that problem? Well, the answer is no, we made progress. So in 1964, 42% of Americans smoke, right? smoked right right now thankfully the rate of cigarette

use is under 12 percent that's a lot that's progress it's a lot of progress but what has happened is what Donald mentioned which is that the rates of vaping especially among youth among young people yeah exactly and they think oh this is benign. It's not harmful. But what's really concerning to us, and the reason in 2016, I issued an actual Surgeon General's report on youth vaping was because young people, they shouldn't be on tobacco for any reason, but when they're introduced to tobacco products through vaping, not only does it addict them to nicotine, but it also increases their risk of using traditional cigarettes and other tobacco products down the line, which we know

are really dangerous for your health. Yeah. How have they been able to have all that? I mean, it's so clearly the cigarette industry found another way to get these kids hooked. They went, what if we put it in colorful little canisters and give it a strawberry flavor? I mean, it's so sinister. Uh, uh, have you, have you had, I'm sure you've tried, but there's, have you had any luck pushing back? I remember reading something about jewel, the company jewel being closed down for some, but what has been your success with controlling vaping with kids? Because, I mean, occasionally I'm around a young person and a teenager, and you just see they're all sucking on those jewels or whatever, the vape things. Yeah, no, they are. And look, there too, I think

we've made some progress. You know, after our report came out, we actually called for aggressive action that the government took, for the government to take to actually reduce the availability and use of these products and the marketing of these products to kids. And the FDA ultimately did step in and put in a series of steps, regulatory steps, to start clawing back what has become dangerous levels of use among kids. And for that reason, they've been able to take some of these dangerous products off the shelves. kids. And for that reason, they've been able to take some of these dangerous products off the shelves. What they did is, in some ways, they put the burden on tobacco companies to prove that their products actually have a public health benefit. And if they don't,

then they shouldn't stay on the market. They also took on flavors, which you raised. There's so many flavors that appeal to kids. And one thing we know from the data is that flavors are the number one reason cited by kids as to why they use e-cigarettes or vaping devices. And think about like watermelon flavors, gummy bear flavors. All of these flavors are really appealing to kids. So the FDA has, since our report came out, taken action against flavors as well. But the bottom line is what you said, Zach, which is that the industry is proven historically to be very creative at finding ways to continue to build and expand their markets for their products. And so we've got to make sure that the regulatory apparatus, that these rules and laws actually keep up with the industry and then

hopefully go beyond and think ahead of where they're going. Because the truth is, as long as we're continuing to make tobacco products available, and they are going to continue to cause death, disease, and disability, and it is having taken care of many patients over the years who have suffered as a result of tobacco-driven disease. It is just heartbreaking to see those avoidable deaths. What's your relationship with the FDA? Like, do you have them like on speed dial? Are you like, yo, come on, man, I need you to pass this shit already.

My guy. Is there a text chain with emojis there is not a text chain with emojis at least if there is i'm not on that chain but but you know i talk to folks you know across the federal agencies at the fda and other federal agencies but it's really important to say that the FDA is an independent agency, just like our office, the Office of the Surgeon General, is independent. So they make their own decisions about what drugs they approve, what recommendations they make, what they do when it comes to regulating tobacco products. We certainly provide our input and advice, but they ultimately make their own decisions.

I wish they made decisions a little bit faster sometimes. That's all. Yeah, I agree. I hope that you can, I hope that because of this podcast and how successful it is, you're going to be able to get more graphic warnings on cigarettes because, you know, it's interesting there, they become like a conversation topic. Someone drops one of those on a table in a restaurant in Montreal, and then everyone I found starts talking about it. And then all of a sudden everyone's like, oh my God, look at that picture. That is so nasty. That is so gross. But then people are talking about cigarettes and talking

about how you shouldn't be smoking. And it generates conversation like of course it was intended to. So I really feel that that would be powerful in this country too. And I think it's a shame that you guys have yet to be able to get that through. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. I think not only do I think that would be helpful, but look, in terms of the speed of things, there are a lot of really hardworking folks in government who are trying to move things fast, and they're trying to, they came to government because they want to help people but the bottom line is there are a lot of things that make the governments work slow even just think about uh legislation right like we have been you know i and many others have been pushing to get legislation passed that would help protect kids against the

harms of social media you know i put an advisory, a Surgeon General's advisory in May of this past year, but I've been talking about it long before then. I'll continue to talk about it more afterward about the urgent need for us to have safety standards in place to protect kids from what they're being exposed to right now, which is harmful content, pornography, extreme violence, but also from the bullying and harassment that's taking place, including from strangers. And the addictive features on these platforms sucks kids in and takes their time away from sleep, from in-person interaction, from learning time in class. So we need- One other thing, not to cut you off,

also, once they get off the thing, they are freaking so agitated and so discombobulated trust me as a kid who as a as a dad who has as a father of a kid who plays video games on on ipads with his friends on social media when he's asked to get off the energy that has shifted in him is so ridiculous. He is so angry and so upset. So, yeah, dude, I am with you on that. I'm sorry. Go on. Yeah. No. And to your point, Donald, what you mentioned, that behavior is very similar to the behavior that we see when you take a substance away from someone that they're addicted to. It's very, very similar.

And so and I don't think that that's a coincidence. I think these platforms, their goal is to maximize how much time people spend on the platforms, right? That's what actually drives revenue in the bottom line for them. And look, as a parent, as a doctor, a surgeon general, what I care about is actually time well spent. What they care about is maximizing the amount of time spent but this is a place where we we got to protect our kids and this isn't look the one

thing just to be super clear on this isn't happening because like the current generation of young people have been somehow born into this world with dramatically less willpower than prior generations what's changed is that they are now exposed to tools that are preying on the fact that adolescents are much more sensitive than other people to social comparison and to social suggestion because of their unique phase of brain development. So we've got to step up and protect our kids. I raise that because to your point, Zach, about the speed of government, this is a place where we need government to move a lot faster. Kids can't wait years and years and years for effective legislation to pass and to ultimately be implemented. Their childhood is

happening right now. That's why I'm going to continue to do everything I can certainly to push Congress and to tell the public why this is so urgent so they can do what they need to do to make their wishes known to their lawmakers. But look, I say this as the dad of two kids. I worry deeply about the world our kids are growing up in, and we've got to move faster to make it safer and more supportive for them. I feel like this is an issue, the rare issue, where you could unite parties on something.

Because I really, listen, I took TikTok off my phone. I tried it for like a month and it was so incredibly addicting, addictive. I found that I really had trouble getting off of it. Right when I was like, okay, enough, it sent me something else I was interested in, in a way more powerful way personally for me than any of the other social media platforms. And so I was like, I cannot have this on my phone. It's not good for me. It's such a waste of time.

And I'm a grown man who has the willpower to be like, okay, enough. And I think of this drug being given to children. And I'm not a parent myself, but if I was, I would be so concerned for the amount of time they're spending on this app that can be very, very unhealthy for them, telling them they need to look a certain way, telling them they need to act a certain way, making them feel less than about themselves. So I guess my, and there's a great book I recommended before on here that I don't know if you've read called The Chaos Machine. Joelle, we should have, try and have that author on here because he's, he was a really,

really great book. And I recommend it to parents, especially. But what do you, we know we have a lot of parents that listen to the show. What, can you give them some advice? What does one do? Because their kids all want to be on the same things as their friends, right? What do you tell a parent about how to control their kid's addiction to these social media apps? Because it's clearly not good for any of us.

I'm going to keep it 100. It's easier said than done. You're going gonna give your anecdote right now and that shit is out the window when you hear the kid freaking screaming like a banshee in the freaking in the house and you're like fine just take this shit just take the fucking game just take it take it take it take it you know what i mean right okay yeah right right i'm sure i listen that's that that's and gentlemen, that's right from the Faison household. No, I know, but I may I may have. I don't know. I don't have any answers, but I'm hoping that you can at least give some recommendations to people.

I'm sure one of the things is, is at what age can you hold it off until. Right. Yeah. Well, look, this is the dilemma I think almost every parent is finding themselves in, how to manage technology that we didn't grow up with, that we didn't have to manage, that's rapidly evolving, and that's designed to suck our kids in without any limits, right? That is a dilemma. And right now, what I would tell parents out there is just, no, number one, you're not struggling alone here. Every other parent is dealing with this. I say that because I run into a lot of parents who think, hey, every other parent has figured this out. I'm the failure because I haven't figured out how to manage this with my kids. So number one, that's not true. Number two,

I think the important thing to realize is that we can start a lot of this work by initiating a conversation with our kids about how we use technology, how technology makes them feel. There are so many young people I talk to who are on social media who have a lot of insight into how it's making them feel, who often say, you know, I feel feeling great about my day. And then I go on social and I see all this stuff that other people are doing. And I just don't feel so great as a result, or I see people doing stuff without me. And then I start to feel left out. And all of that is important. But when a child is processing that alone, it can be even more stressful. So starting a conversation with your child about how they're using social media, how

it's making them feel, are they having dangerous interactions? Are they being approached by strangers like six out of 10 adolescent girls are right now? Yeah. In ways that are making them feel uncomfortable. These are things it's important to start a conversation on the second here's another thing i would do if you're a parent whose child is not yet on social media i would seek to delay their their use of social media until past middle school if you can this is a lot easier said than done because a lot of the people around them a lot

of the kids around them are going to be on social and they're going to say hey everybody has phones already everyone is right but a parent but a parent can can say you can have a phone but you're knocking down social media right so they can there's an asterisk to that which i'll get to in a second because it's it can be a little tricky to do that because sometimes kids will download and use apps and create accounts without your knowledge of them even if you are a thoughtful, conscientious parent who's monitoring their phone. There are ways to hide apps and to essentially keep in the dark as a parent. But delaying the use until past middle school is ideal. And here's why.

Because adolescence is a unique time when our kids' brains and their social lives are developing, when they're more vulnerable, if you will, to the harms that social media may cause. But the early adolescent period, when they're in middle school, is when they're more vulnerable, if you will, to the harms that social media may cause. But the early adolescent period, when they're in middle school, is when they're particularly sensitive. So delaying past that is helpful. Now, doing it on your own is very hard. But if you can partner with a few other parents who may also have similar concerns about their kids, who may want to keep them safe, that becomes a lot easier. You have more support as a parent, but your kids also know, hey, I'm not the only one. Donald's kids are also not getting to use this

in middle school. Zach's kids aren't getting to use this. Like they'll know, right? Like that they're at least not alone. Ideally with the kids' friend group, right? You know, saying, hey, we four parents are going to band together. Exactly, exactly.

So that makes it a little more sustainable let me say one last word though about uh well two last things one is about what to do if your kids are already on social media right because that can be hard you know like taking it away from them i i know that that is not an easy proposition it's taking a drug away yeah and it's it can be incredibly painful if it's not done in the right way, right? Just like cutting somebody off immediately without any support, you know, from a substance they're addicted to could be potentially harmful to them without the right, you know, process. So here, what I would say is a place to start is to create a few tech-free zones in your child's life.

And specifically the areas I would protect in their day are their times for sleep learning and in-person interaction those are the three things our kids need in order to grow develop and thrive and that could mean an hour before your child goes to bed and throughout the night they don't have access to their devices I was just with a parent the other day at an event that I was at who said you know we started a practice in middle school of everyone charges their phones in our bedroom. They don't take their phones into their bedrooms. And we're still doing that to this day, even though our kids are in high school and it helps protect their sleep, protecting their in-person time from tech.

So time around the dinner table, time when they're hanging out with their friends, you know, with friends at home, when there are family gatherings, also important and time learning. So many kids are actually on their devices in school, in class, while they're doing their homework. And I'll tell you this, we overestimate how good we are at multitasking. We think, oh, we can pay attention to this and that at the same time, be on our phone and listen to a conversation. The science is super clear that we're really bad at multitasking. What we do is we task switch rapidly. So if we're looking at that text that popped up on our phone in class,

we're not actually hearing what our teacher is saying. So I would, this is a place where parents are speaking up more and more in schools to say, hey, can we make classrooms a tech-free space? You know, the kids can maybe use them in between classes or- I can't believe they're not. I mean, I'm sorry for being naive because I don't have any kids, but I, I would, I would daydream of a world where the

teacher is saying like, no phones, you're saying that a lot of kids are doing it under their desk or whatever, but that must be hard for them to police. Well, so that's one of the reasons I think it's been challenging for schools. A lot of them have policies. They're just not enforced, but the schools that I've ever since our social media advisory came out on kids' mental health earlier this year, we've heard from more and more schools that have used that sort of as a way to go to their parent communities and say, look, we've got to now create these tech-free zones in our classroom. And one of them I ran into actually at a school in Indiana when I was visiting.

And they told me, they said, actually, after we implemented that policy, a couple of things we noticed almost right away. We noticed that we heard kids actually talking to each other more in the hallways during lunchtime. We actually saw them playing games, like whether it was Jenga or card games or other things in between classes when they had some downtime. That wasn't happening before. Everyone was on their devices.

They weren't actually interacting with each other. So anyway, these are some small steps we can take. But I'll lastly say to Donald's point about the phones. Here's the tricky thing. The phones, smartphones in particular, are easy to load apps onto, and those apps can often be hidden. I have heard so many heartbreaking stories from parents who have lost their children to suicide after their child was mercilessly

bullied and harassed on social media. And they were really monitoring those phones, but they only realized after their child passed that they were all of these accounts that they had that they didn't know about and apps that they were hiding that the parent wasn't aware of. So there are more and more parents who are actually doing this. They're saying, yeah, I want my kid to be safe, to be able to make a call if there's an issue, to be able to get help, to be in touch with me. But they're actually trying to get them what you can call dumb phones. So phones that we used to use back in the day when... Yeah, the Motorola StarTech, baby. Yeah, I mean, the phones which allow you to make phone calls and text,

but which don't allow you to actually download apps. Those might seem old school, but sometimes. The T-Mobile sidekick. The T-Mobile sidekick, baby. Bring it back, y'all. I think that may have had apps. I'm not sure. Well, we're going to take a break, but we both have so many more questions for you.

We're so glad you're here. Bad apps. I'm not sure. Well, we're going to take a break, but we both have so many more questions for you. We're so glad you're here. I want to get to one of the latest things that you're speaking about and spreading the word about. I had the perfect segue to that, too. What's that? I had the perfect segue. Okay, well, we need to take a break, and then you can go back to your segue. Everyone remember where we are at, and then listen to these ads. When we come back, Donald is going to be in charge of the segue.

We'll be right back. Hey, my name's Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. I just had a great conversation with Michael B. Jordan and you can listen to it right now. Michael is known for his performances in both film and television. His breakout role was in Fruitvale Station playing Oscar Grant, which earned him widespread praise and numerous award nominations. His portrayal of Killmonger in Marvel's Black Panther, one of my favorites, further solidified his status as one of Hollywood's leading actors, earning him widespread acclaim for his complex and compelling performance. In our conversation, Michael really opens up. You're going to love listening to it.

And I can't wait for you to check it out. The closest to getting what you want is always the hardest. It's always the feeling when you're getting ready. You know, people give up right before they get what they've always wanted to get. People quit. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine you ask two people the same exact set of seven questions.

I'm Minnie Driver, and this was the idea I set out to explore in my podcast, Minnie Questions. This year, we bring a whole new group of guests to answer the same seven questions, including actress and star of the mega hit sitcom Friends, Courtney Cox. You can't go around it, so you just go through it. This is a roadblock. It's going to catch you down the road. Go through it. Deal with it.

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from her work with Beyonce, Mary J. Blige, and of course, Aaliyah. And most recently, the color purple. Celebrate women's history with us at Questlove Supreme every week in March. Listen to QLS on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. We watch your wizard and Donald. And we're back. All right, Donald, what was your segue? Everyone remembered where we were. So you left office and things were kind of normal. You came back to office and there was a clusterfuck. Let's keep it 100.

Like everything had switched. The world had changed. And not only had it changed, people were staying at home because of the change that had come. Caused loneliness. Caused a lot of loneliness. of the change that had come caused loneliness, caused a lot of loneliness, caused a lot of fear. And you're combating that right now. Am I correct? That was very good, Donald. That was a great segue, Donald.

I just want to compliment your segue. I mean, we think we're decent podcast hosts, Vivek, but I just want to give you your flowers, Donald. That was nicely done. I'll take that. I'll take that i'll take that did um i call that an upper level segue that was very if i could just piggyback off of it the loneliness epidemic was happening question mark and then covid magnified it exponentially is that true that's exactly right yeah it was it was a fire that was burning for years, and then COVID just dumped a whole lot of fuel on it and made loneliness much worse.

But yeah, this was a problem before. In fact, I was seeing loneliness in communities when I was traveling around the country in 2015 during my first stint as Surgeon General. And that's actually what made me realize that this was a public health issue. You see, before that, like I never learned about loneliness in medical school. Like we were never taught it was a health issue.

But I knew what it felt like because as a kid, I struggled a lot with loneliness myself. I was, you know, I was one of those kids who didn't really want to go to school most days. And I would often fake having a stomach ache so that my mom would, you know, take pity on me and let me stay home. Not because I,

she doesn't know that by the way. And I don't know if she listens to this podcast or not, but if she does, she does, she does. I'm going to get into it. Everyone does. Everyone does.

And also listen, let's be honest, man, you did fake, you did, you got out of school a lot, but look at you now you're a surgeon general. So.

And listen, you know, I know that Obama listens. So just watch your words watch your words be careful be careful be careful don't don't dis obama because he listens all right how we talk yeah but you know the thing is i i did all that because i was not because i was scared about teachers or tests i was scared about going to the cafeteria at lunchtime one more time and not having someone to sit next to or being on the playground and being scared that I wouldn't get chosen to be on someone's team, even though I was a pretty decent athlete because I just didn't have that many friends. So I knew that feeling personally, and I actually saw it in a lot of my patients as a doctor, but I didn't realize how widespread it was until I started traveling as Surgeon General and hearing from people who would say things like, you know, I feel like I just walked through life, you know, carrying all these burdens by myself,

where I feel like if I disappear tomorrow, nobody would care. Nobody would notice where I feel invisible. And I was hearing this from college students who are surrounded by hundreds of other students on campus, like from moms and dads who are like in busy workplace. I was hearing this from college students who are surrounded by hundreds of other students on campus, like from moms and dads who are like in busy workplace. I was hearing this from CEOs and from members of Congress. Everybody seemed to have their own stories and struggles with loneliness. So that's what got me interested in exploring this deeper. And as I did, I realized two big things. One is that loneliness is extremely common. One in two adults have measurable levels of loneliness in the United States, and even the numbers are even higher among kids. But I also

came to realize how consequential loneliness is for both our mental health and our physical health, and that really surprised me. Absolutely. I mean, I think about it all the time. Some people construe loneliness as, well, I'm by myself all the time, but you could be lonely and be surrounded by a bunch of people. You could be lonely. You could be lonely and have a wife or a husband and children surrounding you and still feel lonely and still feel alone. You say one in two. Wow. I feel like everybody at some point experiences loneliness. I think you're right. And I think one in two is actually an underestimate because that's the number of people who are actually willing to admit to it, right, on a survey. But I think there's this sense of shame also that surrounds loneliness where we think, and this is how I felt when I was a kid and at times when I was an adult and I struggled with loneliness, but I felt like I'm lonely because I'm not likable.

I did something wrong. I'm not interesting enough. You think it's something about you that is making you not someone that folks want to hang out with. And it doesn't feel great to admit that. So I think people actually keep that under wraps. Did social media, which we thought would make people more connected, did it contribute to this isolation? I believe it has.

Yeah. And I think the intent was to actually build community. But what ended up happening with social media were a couple of interesting and really concerning things. One is that people started shifting more of what used to be offline in-person friendships to online friendships. They started valuing quantity, number of friends over the quality of friends, regardless of how few they were. Right. I still remember in the early days of social media, people would always talk about, Oh, how many friends do you have? Like I have this many, Oh, now I'm getting to that level. I'm getting to that level. went, oh, how many friends do you have? Like I have this many, oh, now I'm getting to that level.

I'm getting to that level. Contacts are not necessarily friends. Like online acquaintances don't necessarily translate to somebody who can be there for you during a crisis, right? I think the last thing that happened, which is more insidious, but really important is that I think for many people, social media ended up shredding their self-esteem, not all at once, gradually over time, but it doesn't matter like how rich, powerful, accomplished you are, whatever. When you're constantly comparing yourself to what people are posting online, you're going to feel worse about your life. And that's, even though we know like that, that's not a hundred percent real, that people are curating and selecting what they post. It actually turns out that that doesn't insulate us from feeling

worse about ourselves. And so that I think has had an impact. Because imagine if you feel worse and worse about yourself, less confident in who you are, it makes it harder to actually go and put yourself out there and meet other people and build a relationship, a friendship. And so I think all of this together has actually contributed to greater loneliness in the population. Social media has contributed to so many of the lies that are out there right now. Like some of y'all don't look like that. I'm going to keep it 100. Like some of y'all been putting filter after filter after filter on your face. And we know, okay, because ain't nobody's skin that perfect.

Yeah. Okay. Am I going too far? Am I going too far on i don't think that's that's totally true vivic do you have a filter on right now because you know what happened you were i don't have a no man i wish i wish i was sophisticated enough to even know how to put a filter on but i'm just so handsome oh man thank you no doubt i will tell my mother you said that.

She'll be very proud. No, but he's listening right now. She knows already. Oh, she's listening, of course. He's right in a sense that the filters and everything adds to a heightened sense of people feeling like, gosh, I don't look like that. That's what I was trying to get at. Sincerely, man, There's nothing real on social media. Everything that's posted is a heightened reality.

And we all know it, but we still try to keep up with it. We try to keep... We all get the latest filters ourselves. Or we get the... You know what I mean? Yeah. And look, the thing is, there's a fine line between using some of these features for fun and then slipping into a world where that becomes the

norm and i think that's what's happened like really quickly here uh with social media so look i think part of our challenge and like in this moment in our lives and in society is to figure out how to how to start living real life as opposed to living our lives mostly online which is what's happening to most people. Like real life is happening offline. And we need to get people to a place where they have the space, the opportunities, the comfort, the skills to actually engage with one another. I'll also say this.

It's not always about like major, massive transformation of your life. Like sometimes like just a little bit of interaction can go a long way to making us feel better. Like stopping to say hello to somebody on the way out of work, you know, just to check on them, see how they're doing. Picking up the phone to call a friend on your way to work just to say, hey, I was thinking about you. Just want to know what you're up to, how you're doing. Or dropping somebody a line just to say, hey, I remember that thing you did for me last week and that really helped me a lot. You know, I was I remember that thing you did for me last week. And that really helped me a lot. You know, I was having a bad day.

Thanks for reaching out for me, to me. Thanks for thinking about me. These things can take like a minute, two minutes. But they make us feel so much better, more human, more connected. Because the truth is, like, you know, we evolved over thousands of years to not just like listen to the content of what each other is saying. thousands of years to not just like listen to the content of what each other is saying, but to like, to perceive and to take in like your facial expression, your body language, the tone of your voice, your physical presence. And when we have all of that, which we have an in-person interaction, it goes so much farther and it's so much richer for us than we are when

we are solely relying, let's say on testing, texting somebody or emailing them to communicate. Okay. But here's a question then how do we get out in the world and do all of these things when we hate each other right now you know what i mean like that's where we're at right now as a as a people yeah we're we deal with so much hate uh uh this planet is filled with hate and we're asking people to get out and touch and stuff like that. And a lot of people don't want to be touched by other people. You know what I mean? Like, how do we fix that?

Like, there's more to it than just, you know. I mean, getting out with loved ones is something different. But I feel like, and I get where you're coming from with that, but I feel like right now, I feel like social media, I feel like all of these things are really are what's contributing to the amount of hatred that's going on in this world towards one another, you know? And, uh, I, you know, I, I, my question is how do we combat that? If, if, if we're going to get out and we're going to start talking to people and we're going to start doing that, we got to be ready to hear, you know, some people don't want to listen. Yeah. So I think that's the right question, Donald, because I do think you're right. And I don't think you're alone in feeling like in feeling like there's a lot of hate and division and anger like in the world right now.

And the more you feel that, the less you want to reach out to other people or build bridges. Two things I would say here though. One is I actually think there's actually less hate than we think. And because it is magnified on social media, it's magnified in the traditional

media and it makes us think that that is everyone that's how everyone feels like these are all the interactions that are happening everywhere they're actually not they're a fraction of the reality but here's the second thing i think we actually hate it's easier to hate other people when we don't know them right and like if you're i'll give you a simple example. If you're at work, let's say, and you want to just get to know a few more people, you don't need to like go to your, your, your, you know, person in your neighboring cubicle and say, Hey, can you have lunch with me? So we can talk about the top three most divisive, controversial subjects out there. Cause that's not what people like do. Right You might, like, we connect on this stuff that we share. Like, maybe we both have kids and we're worried about them.

Maybe we both love music and we, you know, we just went to a concert last night. We can talk about that. Maybe, you know, we talk about the work we have. Maybe we talk about the communities and neighborhoods we live in. There's a lot of our life that actually is part of a shared experience that constitutes, you know, subjects of conversation and points of connection, frankly, that can bring us together. And I'll tell you what happens when we do that. When we start learning about people, about their family, about their background, about their kids, about their experience in the neighborhood, about their culture, when we

start learning about that, it becomes a lot easier for us to manage disagreements, right? Like you, I don't know if you guys have this, but most people have a relative that they get together with at Thanksgiving, who's their crazy uncle or their crazy aunt, who's got views that are totally different from them, who they don't, can't talk to about politics or whatever it is. But the truth is, if that uncle or aunt were in a car accident, ended up in the hospital, you would show up. If you were in a car accident, ended up in the hospital, you would show up. If you were in the hospital and you needed something in an emergency, they would show up.

You do that because you have a foundation of relationship that allows you to perhaps disagree on things. And you can see, though, that beneath that is a real person, right? We're more than the issues we disagree on. And that's what building these sort of connections allows us to feel. And that's what I think we have a chance to get back to. That's why I say it happens in the small conversations between neighbors, co-workers, between folks, between fellow parents. We have a lot that actually connects us. We're just not hearing or seeing much of that on social media or the news.

So starting the community. Yes. Spread starting the community. Yes. Spread out. Yeah. You just made me realize that Thanksgiving this year is going to be a doozy for a lot of people. Like if you look at a graph, if you looked at a graph at the most difficult Thanksgivings of the last 20 years, I bet this one's going to win.

Hey, you know what? That'd be pretty rough. This is probably going to be the most... I mean, we're just coming out of COVID too, though. So everybody's really probably going to... This will probably be the biggest year of congregation on Thanksgiving. Is that the right word? On Thanksgiving.

You know what I mean? That's a nice use of congregation. I went to congregation um temple israel let's take a break we'll be right back after these fine words hey my name is jay shetty and i'm the host of on purpose i just had a great conversation with michael b jordan and you can listen to it right now michael is known for his performances in both film and television. His breakout role was in Fruitvale Station playing Oscar Grant which earned him widespread praise and numerous award nominations. His portrayal of Killmonger in Marvel's Black

Panther, one of my favorites, further solidified his status as one of Hollywood's leading actors earning him widespread acclaim for his complex and compelling performance. In our conversation, Michael really opens up. You're going to love listening to it. And I can't wait for you to check it out. The closest to getting what you want is always the hardest. It's always the feeling when you're getting ready. People give up right before they get what they've always wanted to get. People quit. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine you ask two people the same exact set of seven questions. I'm Minnie Driver, and this was the idea I set out to explore in my podcast, Minnie Questions. This year, we bring a whole new group of guests to answer the same seven questions, including actress and star of the mega hit sitcom Friends, Courtney Cox. You can't go around it, so you just go through it. This is a roadblock.

It's going to catch you down the road. Go through it. Deal with it. Comedian, writer, and star of the series Catastrophe, Rob Delaney. I shouldn't feel guilty about my son's death. He died of a brain tumor. It's part of what happens when your kid dies. Intellectually, you'll understand that it's not your fault, but you'll still feel guilty.

That personal disaster wrote Guyville. So everything comes out of a dead end. And many, many more. Join me on season three of Many Questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. Hey, good people. This is Laia. Now, for years, we have celebrated Women's History Month at QLS with a month of very special programming.

History Month at QLS, with a month of very special programming. This year, we have three Grammy Award-winning ladies, Brittany Howard, Corinne Bailey Ray, and Letticey. All three of these artists make music and write songs that fit many genres, and each will be discussing new songs and albums. We also have the incomparable, incredible queen of dance, Fatima Robinson, who has won NAACP Image Awards, choreographed the Oscars, the Grammys, your favorite Gap ad, and Super Bowls. You know her from her work with Beyonce, Mary J. Blige, and of course, Aaliyah, and most recently, the color purple. Celebrate women's history with us at Questlove Supreme every week in March. Celebrate women's history with us at Questlove Supreme every week in March. Listen to QLS on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I want to talk about, on a serious note, on a more serious note, the teen suicide rate.

In doing some research on you coming on, I read some articles that really blew my mind. I knew that this had increased, but here's something from U.S. News and World Report, which I would think would be accurate. the suicide rate among 13 and 14-year-olds nationwide more than doubled from roughly two deaths per 100,000 in 2008 to five per 100,000, a stark reversal from a decline that began in the 90s. And now suicide is now the leading cause of death for 13 and 14-year-olds in the United States. That's accurate, right? Yeah, and so disturbing.

I mean, how did we get here, right? Yeah, and so disturbing. I mean, like, how did we get here, right? Right, and before you answer, my gut is to say, what is the big change? The big change is social media, but is it more than that? Like, why is this fucking happening, and what do parents do? This scares the shit out of me.

I'm sorry, Doc, but this does. This is one thing that sincerely i'm sure it scares everyone out there listening and and and it's not something that's talked about a lot i i knew that the suicide rate had increased but i didn't know it was as stark as that stat so i i wondered in your position what do you think the cause of it is and what can be done about it well listen i don't think there's anything more important as a public health issue than we should be focusing on in youth mental health. I've called this a defining public health crisis of our time, and I firmly believe that. And it's why I've the profound impact that social media has had on kids' mental health. I think we've also seen a growing amount of loneliness among kids that is only partially

related to social media. I think there are other contributors to that loneliness as well. But we know that the amount of time that kids spend in person with their friends has actually dropped by 50% in the around 15 years or so prior to the pandemic. And it dropped even further during the pandemic. So there are more and more forces that are taking us away from each other. And look, I think that there's another element to this that we don't talk about enough, which is I think more and more of our kids are becoming the victims of a achievement culture that I don't think serves them, right?

It's not a culture that says achievement is good or bad. It's not about that. It's about how we define what achievement is and what success is. And I think that we're telling our kids more and more that if they aren't perfect, that they don't have a future. They've got to get into fancy schools, have a long resume, have top grades, et cetera, in order to make it through and be worthy. And again, there's nothing wrong with having good grades, with striving to get into great schools, with achievement.

There's nothing wrong with it in and of itself. Here's the problem. The problem comes where we define our kids worth their self-esteem by whether or not they've met, uh, these stand increasingly stringent standards of success. You know, when I talk to kids around the country, I do a lot of round tables, uh, with high school students, with college students, uh, and with even younger students, they tell me that they feel like they're being asked to chase a model of success that says, to make it, you've got to be famous,

you've got to be wealthy, you've got to be powerful. And ideally, all three, right? If you get all three, we'll write books about you. We'll make movies about you. We'll write stories about you in the media. But, you know, I'll tell you this. I know a lot of people who are rich,

powerful, and famous, and who are really unhappy and not fulfilled. And I know a lot of people who are not rich, who are not powerful, who are not famous, but they're really, really happy because they have relationships in their life. They have a sense of purpose in the role they play in their neighborhood or in their work. That's ultimately what matters. And I think that the focus has shifted so much away from that, that what has become a more toxic achievement culture combined with loneliness and the negative impacts of social media, I think are combining to hurt our kids.

There's one last factor we have to keep in mind, which is hard to ignore, and this is affecting adults too. But it's the negative information environment that we're all surrounded in. Like we are drowning in negative news. It's called doom scrolling. I mean, I think that term doom scrolling is so relevant because more than ever now, you pick up your phone and you're just getting hit with a fire hose of horribleness. That's right.

And I'm not saying that we should be blind to the challenges happening around us in the world, but I do think that there's a problem when it is so out of proportion, the news that we're getting that we're constantly hearing everything that's broken about the world. We're hearing very little about what is right about the world because that's not deemed newsworthy and it doesn't drive clicks. And so if you see that all the time, then you come to believe that that's real, right? That everything is truly broken, that there is no hope in the future. It is very difficult to be happy and fulfilled and content if the future is not bright. If you don't think that there's hope that things are going to continue to be good, that

they can get better, that they're going to be great for your kids. And so you put all of this stuff together, the negative information environment with social media, with loneliness, with this toxic achievement culture, and you have a recipe for the youth mental health crisis that we're seeing today. What do you recommend parents who are listening to this say to their children? Because I bet a lot of these parents who've tragically lost their children to suicide would have thought that it came out of the blue for them. Some, of course, recognize that their children were suffering and depressed, but I'm sure many had no idea. What do you recommend a parent listening to this do with their teenager or their adolescent child, the conversation they should have to reach out to them.

Yeah. So this, I think, is one of the scariest things for parents. And this is why I resonate with what you were saying, Donald, as well, about it being scary. Because to think that your kid might be suffering in silence and you don't know about it, and to worry that it may lead to a terrible outcome, like them harming themselves, I mean, that is every parent's worst nightmare, right? And so, and I feel that too, you know, my kids are five and seven, but you know, I'll tell you guys, like my daughter who's five, when she was in preschool just a few months

ago, last spring, she came home one day and asked my wife and I, if we could post a picture that we had taken of her on a social media platform, and she actually named the platform. And we're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're in preschool. Where did this come from? It's not a platform that we even use like ourselves. And we don't talk about it at home, but her friends in preschool were talking about posting stuff on social media. So this is a nightmare to manage for parents. Here's what I would say to them, This is a nightmare to manage for parents. Here's what I would say to them, though.

One thing that remains true is that as parents, our love for our children is the most powerful protective force that we have to give them. It's important our kids know that we love them, that we love them unconditionally. We may tell them they may say nothing. They may wave us off. They may say, you don't need to say that. You're being sappy. Doesn't matter. You say it to your kids, express it to your kids.

In the moments of darkness and crisis, when they're wondering who in the world actually values them and cares about them, you want them to remember that their parents do. So that's one thing we can remind our kids of. The second thing we can do as parents is that I start conversations with our children about their mental health. Sometimes parents worry, hey, if I bring it up, maybe it'll plant the idea in their head. If I use the word depression, maybe it'll lead them to become depressed. If I talk about suicide, maybe it'll put that idea in there. The studies actually very clearly show that that is not the case. More so what happens is when you raise these

issues and just to ask your child, has Vader struggled with these? Do they know what these are? Do they know what to do if they do start to feel like they're depressed or anxious? That actually opens things up for your child to recognize that,

hey, I don't have to be embarrassed about this. I can talk to my parents about this. Other people deal with this. I don't have to be ashamed. So that's a really important conversation to start as a parent. And the last thing I would suggest to parents, and there's a lot more we could talk about, the last thing I'd suggest is that, you know, while I would certainly underscore some of the points we talked about

earlier in terms of creating tech-free zones in your child's life, creating boundaries around social media, delaying the use as long as possible, I also think it's important to fill our child's lives with positive sources of influence and positive experiences, right? We want them to experience fulfilling relationships. One of the ways they do that is by actually seeing us enjoy our friendships as parents. Our kids so often pay attention not to what we say, but to what we do, right? And when they see their parents investing in relationships, having family over, taking time to be with friends, reaching out to friends who might be struggling because that's what we should do, show up for one another, that sends an important message to the child. Creating opportunities for kids to also spend time in person with other kids is also vital. With my own kids, I'll tell you right now, we are putting as much effort as we can into setting up play dates for them with other kids

so that they can have unstructured playtime. So many kids, their lives are so overscheduled, right? There's like no time to even get together because they're at soccer practices, music rehearsals, concerts, games, this, that, everything. And there's nothing wrong with some of those activities, but we need those opportunities for our kids to enjoy unstructured play with other kids where they can be creative, they can interact with each other without, again, technology, with just being themselves. So these are a few things that I would advise to parents. But just remember as parents, look, you're not the only one struggling. You're not the only one worried about these issues

around the mental health of your kids. The more as parents we can start talking with each other about the common struggle that we all have in protecting our kids, the more we'll have support as well in our parenting journey. Just to finish on that point, you'd recommend a parent talking to their kid and saying, you know, hey, you know, I want you to know that you can always come to me kind of thing, right? If you're feeling bullied or you're alone, you know, creating a channel for them to be able to, a safe space for them to be able to come to me kind of thing, right? If you're feeling bullied or you're alone, so creating a channel for them to be able to, a safe space for them to be able to come to you, right? Yeah, I try to tell my kids every day, yo, you can tell me anything and everything, and it's all good, you know what I mean?

Yeah. It also goes with other adults too. You know what I mean? If your teacher says something to you, I'm on your side. So tell me first. If you're in trouble, I'm on your side. So tell me and then we can combat this together. You know what I mean?

Like, this is something that we're always trying to tell our children. But secretly, we still fear that same shit. You know what I mean? The same thing. sort of regular conversation, right? Where, where they feel that they're loved and there's, and there's always a clear communication and love from you to say, if something's coming up, if you're depressed, you know, people get depressed, come talk to me. If you're being bullied, I've been bullied, come talk to me. Like, well, there's just a really safe zone for them to come to you. Right? Yeah. No, you're both articulating it perfectly. That's exactly right. They need to know that they can come to us as parents and that they're not going to get in trouble by being honest about something that they're dealing with or crisis that they're

in. I'll share one last tip for parents, which is that I think also this is something my parents did for me when I was growing up that I fully didn't appreciate the value of until years later. We know that serving and helping other people is a powerful antidote to loneliness. We know it's actually really good for our mental health and well-being. And one of the things that my parents used to do for me when I was a kid is, one, whenever we had a family friend who was in crisis, my parents would always step up to help. Right. And it didn't mean like, you know, it had to be in big ways. It could sometimes just be a phone call to check on them, see how they're doing. Sometimes it was visiting them to drop off food. Uh, sometimes it was, uh, you know, stopping in to, to watch their child and babysit

so they could have some time for themselves, but it was in small ways. They sought to help friends who were in crisis. And then as I got older, my parents encouraged me to do the same. When they would hear about a friend of mine who was having a tough time, they'd say, well, what have you done? Have you can you go and help them out? Like I had a friend when I was in high school in 10th grade. I remember this. There's a group of guys in our class who went out for lunch and they were driving somewhere and something happened when they were driving. They got into a car accident and one of the kids died in that car accident.

And the kid sitting next to him was actually a very good friend of mine who I'd grown up with. And my parents, I still remember they said to me, they said, have you, have you checked on him to see how he's doing? And I was oh you know i don't think i really like i was like you know just saw him in classes and that they're like no go to his house check on him make sure he's okay and so i did my sister and i went over we spent ended up spending like half a day with him we didn't talk about the accident at all but i'll tell you at the end of that day when we were uh leaving he just turned to both of us and he said, hey, I really needed this. Thank you so much. I've been hurting a lot, but it

meant a lot to have you guys over. And so as parents, whenever you have a chance to encourage your children to help and support and be there for their friends who might be having a hard time, I would encourage that. because sometimes you might think, yeah, my kid's struggling, they need help. Turns out when we help other people, we ultimately help and support and sustain ourselves as well. And also I should mention, you just made me realize, all of these bully kids that are being horrible,

they have parents. So make sure that your kid's not that kid, right? I mean, because I imagine some of these children that are being just utterly awful on social media, uh, need to hear from their parents that, that this could lead to someone's suicide. I mean, that is that the words have such impact on people. That's right. And a lot of those bullies, I'll be honest, have some deeper issue that they're dealing with themselves that someone's got to help them with, you know, and, um, you know, that old saying hurt people, hurt people. Uh, there's a lot of, a lot of truth to that. So,

uh, look, the bottom line is we're in this, we're in this vicious cycle now where pain has been getting more pain. There are a lot of people who are hurt. They're, you know, potentially hurting themselves further or they're down on themselves. Or sometimes in some cases, they may be bullying or hurting other people around them. And that, that just continues to multiply. We need to turn that vicious cycle into a virtuous cycle, which is what we can do when we actually start helping one another, reaching out to one another in positive ways. Like I'll tell you that friend of ours, like when I was growing up, who was in that terrible accident, like I suspect that when we spent time with him and he felt a bit better that day,

maybe he was nicer to someone else in his life. Maybe he was kinder to his sisters and his parents. We don't know the ripples that are created when we reach out to somebody in a moment of kindness and when we seek to serve people who are hurting. I really do like that though. That's not, that's, that isn't a way that I have ever thought about combating against my own depressions or my own loneliness and to help someone else out. Absolutely. That is, oh, that's so, because you're not only helping them out,

you're helping yourself. That's such a great. It's a great instinct. Like when you're feeling down, when you're feeling, I've done this before at the direction, probably of my therapist, but it worked like, and you're down,

think of someone in your life who could use a pep talk or cheering up or checking in with, and then, and then just do it, FaceTime them, call them, Hey, I've been thinking about you and giving them the love. You, you, you get it back in yourself. That's, that's so true. And you know, the last few weeks I've been, I've been traveling to different colleges actually talking about the various subjects you and I are all talking about. But it's a part of what we call our We Are Made to Connect college campus tour. And it's been a fascinating journey. But, you know, college students are suffering with some of the highest rates of loneliness and they're sort of at the epicenter of the youth mental health crisis.

the youth mental health crisis. But one of the things that we do with the college students, in addition to talking about loneliness, talking about strategies to rebuild connection, is we've actually posed this challenge to them called our five for five challenge, where we ask them to engage in five acts of connection over the next five days. And those could be either an expression of gratitude,

an extension of support to someone who needs help, or it could be asking for help themselves. And it's a really powerful challenge. And we actually do the first day of the challenge with them, like in the room. And we ask them all to think about somebody. In fact, if you guys want to do this, it takes 60 seconds. We can do this together. We want to do it and we want the audience to play along. It takes 60 seconds. We can do this together.

We want to do it, and we want the audience to play along. Yeah, yeah. So everyone listening right now, what I want you to do is just sort of close your eyes for a second, and I want you to think about somebody in your life that you're grateful for. It could be somebody who helped you out a few days ago when you were having a rough day. It could be somebody who showed up in your life a few years ago when you had a major disappointment, where things didn't go quite your way, and they helped to remind you that things were going to be okay and that they had your back. However big or small the action, think about who that person is. Think about what they did for you. Think about how it felt. And I want you to actually, to just, if you're listening out here and you've got a phone, I want you to pull out your phone

and I want you to compose a text or an email to them right now. The key is to do it in the moment so you don't put it off. And just to take 60 seconds to do this. But write them just a short note. It could be one line. It could be two lines. Just telling them that you were thinking about them. You remember this beautiful thing they did for you and how grateful you are to them. So I'll just give you a few seconds to do that.

I'm doing it right now as you speak. This is the first time I've live texted on the podcast. Yeah, I'm doing it right now too. Awesome. Everyone pull over if you're driving. Please don't do this while you're driving. Yes. Because I'm sure the Surgeon General would not approve of that.

Good call, Zach. I appreciate that. So take another. And this is something that is so easy that people can do. You know, it takes two seconds to say to someone who's going through something hey you're on my mind hey sending you love um hey i'm gonna be in your neighborhood should i stop by um we all have someone in our lives that could use some love and um and and and we shouldn't be stingy with our love.

That is so true. Because our love is a renewable resource. Yeah, it's infinite. It's infinite. And the more we give, actually, the more I realize we have to give. But like, look, just even what we did now. When you did yours, who did you text?

Was it Obama or Biden? Which one? Which one? Vivek, when you did yours, who did you text? Was it Obama or Biden? Which one? Which one? The person that I thought of actually. Hey, Barack, it's me, Vivek. I just wanted to say, thinking of you.

Thinking of you, sending you love. You gave me that job as a Surgeon General. I still have the suit. I still have the suit. And I got to be on Fake Doctors. I got to be on Fake Doctors, real friends. I'm on Fake Doctors, your favorite podcast right now.

That's so funny. The person I actually thought of was my mother. I was just on a flight coming back and I just texted my parents and my sister. I was like, hey, I'll be back in D.C. soon. I'm just getting on a flight. My mom called me right away. I my parents and my sister. I was like, hey, I'll be back in DC soon. I'm just getting on the flight. And my mom called me right away. I was sitting in my seat and she called me

and I was like, hey, everything okay? She was like, yeah, I just saw that you were leaving. I just wanted to make sure that you're okay. See if you had eaten. Are you going to be able to sleep on the plane? And it was very endearing. These are the same conversations that my mom would have with me years ago when I was traveling. But but just being reminded that doesn't matter how old I get, you know, whatever my job is, whatever my mom's love is constant. It's always there for me. Like that just made me just feel so good and so grateful. And so she was the one I was thinking about.

But I think, look, I think that this it's in these kind of small actions that can send powerful ripples out. You know, when we do this exercise in college campuses, we actually have the students turn the flashlight on their phone after they send their email or their text and then hold it up toward the ceiling. And we dim the lights and then we have them look around. And what they see are hundreds of points of lights shining out, uh, like into the, into the air. And those, each of those are rays of hope, right? There's somebody who's going to receive one of those messages and feel better about themselves. They're going to be reminded that they're not alone, that somebody actually is thinking about them, that they remember them. Maybe they're having a really down day and they'll think,

oh, you know, maybe I do have something of value to give to the world. This person just remembered something I did for them. You know, those rays of light are incredibly powerful. And the reason I'll actually say that these are so important is because we've been talking about a lot of stuff today that require policy solutions, programmatic solutions. But I think this deeper despair that we're seeing in our country, I think is part of a deeper underlying moral crisis that we're in, where in some ways, I feel like we have lost sight of what we need to do and who we need to be to enable all of us to thrive. Like people say to me all the time, hey Vivek, you know, it feels like it's become more important to be right than to be kind, more important to be powerful than to be compassionate, more important to look

out for myself than to look out for other people. But I actually think deep down inside, like all of us, I think in our hearts, we want our kids to grow up in a world where people are actually nice to each other. We want people to be able to look out for one another. We want somebody to be able to lift us up when we fall down, and we want to be able to do that for other people. But I think right now we have drifted away from some of those core values. And I think this is our time to re-anchor ourselves in those core values and to ask ourselves,

what do we want to fundamentally guide and shape the world that we're going to live in, that our kids are growing up in? And how do we proactively take those values and not just have them be things that sit in our heads or on paper, but say, how do I apply the values of kindness and generosity of service and friendship to the interactions I have in my day-to-day life, to the decisions I make about what issues I speak up for, to the decisions I make about who I choose to be my leaders in organizations or in government. How do I apply these values to my life and to our life? And how do we talk more openly about them? Because this is, I think, one of the great prices that we've paid in the last few years is, I think, something that we all want. A certain set of core values we all hold dear, have just disintegrated and have faded into the background. And it feels like we're fundamentally angry and self-centered and mean-spirited, but I don't think that's our

true identity. I think in our hearts, we are optimistic, we are courageous, we are kind, and this is our opportunity to reclaim and rebuild that identity and on that note wow we will end the podcast yeah that is that's a mic drop thank you so much for joining us and for sharing uh what you do with our audience and uh it's an honor to to have had you and we really appreciate it thank you for all the good you're doing in the world wow thank you both i so enjoyed this and i will will say having spent a lot of time when I was in residency training, watching both of you on screen in scrubs, it's a joy certainly to meet you guys. But I'll say just in a real personal note, you brought a lot of joy and laughter to many of us

who are going through medical training in those years. I wouldn't underestimate how important that was. We needed to laugh. We needed to be able to see the light side of life after going through incredibly painful, difficult days dealing with life and death every day. So thank you for everything. Was there one of us who you thought was funnier than the other when you were going through this training? He related with me.

We're both brown, bro. Oh, come on. Okay. Sorry. Of course. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Vivek, so much. related with me we're both brown bro oh come on okay sorry of course all right thank you thank you vivic so much thanks so much guys great to be with you appreciate you right on appreciate you let's take a break we'll be right back after these fine words hey my name is jay shetty and i'm the host of on purpose i just had a great conversation with Michael B. Jordan and you can listen to it right now. Michael is known for his performances in both film and television. His breakout role was in Fruitvale Station playing Oscar Grant which earned him

widespread praise and numerous award nominations. His portrayal of Killmonger in Marvel's Black Panther, one of my favorites, further solidified his status as one of Hollywood's leading actors, earning him widespread acclaim for his complex and compelling performance. In our conversation, Michael really opens up, you're going to love listening to it, and I can't wait for you to check it out. The closest to getting what you want is always the hardest. It's always the feeling when you're getting ready. People give up right before they get what they've always wanted to get. People quit. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, my name is Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose.

I just had a great conversation with Michael B. Jordan and you can listen to it right now. Michael is known for his performances in both film and television. His breakout role was in Fruitvale Station playing Oscar Grant which earned him widespread praise and numerous award nominations. His portrayal of Killmonger in Marvel's Black Panther, one of my favorites, further solidified his status as one of Hollywood's leading actors, earning him widespread acclaim for his complex and compelling performance. In our conversation, Michael really opens up. You're going to love listening to it.

And I can't wait for you to check it out. The closest to getting what you want is always the hardest. It's always the feeling when you're getting ready. You know, people give up right before they get what they've always wanted to get. People quit. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Imagine you ask two people the same exact set of seven questions. I'm Minnie Driver, and this was the idea I set out to explore in my podcast, Minnie Questions. This year, we bring a whole new group of guests to answer the same seven questions, including actress and star of the mega hit sitcom Friends, Courtney Cox.

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Intellectually, you'll understand that it's not your fault, but you'll still feel guilty. Alt-rock icon, Liz Phair. That personal disaster wrote Guyville. So everything comes out of a dead end. And many, many more. Join me on season three of Many Questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts. Seven questions, limitless answers. Hey, good people. This is Laia. Now for years, we have celebrated Women's History Month at QLS with a month of very special programming. This year, we have three Grammy Award-winning ladies, Brittany Howard, Corinne Bailey Ray, and Lettice. All three of these artists make music and write songs that fit many genres,

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That was so awesome. That was awesome, man. Holy cow. Vive was awesome, man. Holy cow. Vivek came with it. He's such a wonderful speaker on these topics, and he's in such a position to make a huge difference. Yeah. He's actually going around speaking at a bunch of colleges right now

about the loneliness epidemic. So I know we have a lot of college kids who listen to us. If Vivek is coming to your school go check him out like that shit is real man like we are all we all experience it in some way he's gonna give you tools i hope we've given you tools in this podcast just you listening right now we've given you tools to fight loneliness and you know i'm gonna use some of the tools that we're given especially the reaching out to people when i feel when i feel you could reach out to me more because you don't

ever well you i've reached out to my wife first and next will be you yeah but i mean you know we're not in the same city you could occasionally be like i could write the text for you if you want i sent you a meme you could write the text for me if i if i if i send you some text will you just copy and paste them back to me yeah hey man hey man just checking in about you i know you're in new york city just want to say i love you and you're on my mind okay hit me up if you want to chat i'll write that i'll just text you and then you can just copy and paste yeah and then like once a week just copy and paste

because you never reach out all you do is send me fucking memes that's your love language that is my love language because I know you'll appreciate you appreciate I know when I so know when Donald's up baked in his house because all of a sudden I'll get like a barrage of like the stupidest no of course it's funny I so know when Donald's up baked in his house because all of a sudden I'll get like a barrage.

Some of that shit be funny as hell though. No, of course it's funny. Some of that shit be funny as hell. I'm just like, I can tell by the level of how stonery the meme is. Like what's going on at your house over there? Motherfucker, I sent that one, the Jimmy Fallon shit with them singing We Are The Champion. And they put Usher in the corner. And Usher thinks he's in the middle square. So you know how Jimmy Fallon

does the Brady Bunch thing? No. And they all sing on his show? Okay, so Jimmy Fallon does a thing where it's like the Brady Bunch and they sing different songs, right? Okay. So he had one and they're all singing

We Are The Champion, the Queen song. We are the champ, right? And it's a bunch of freaking A-list musicians singing. Somebody told Usher he was in the center square, but he was really in the corner. So this motherfucker's looking around at everything around him, down to the left, to the right, and up. And really, there's only somebody up and to the left of his ass.

I said, do that shit. I was so fucking baked when I said do that shit, because I laughed so hard. Because it took me a second to realize, wait a second, what am I looking at here? What is it? And then I read the caption. Oh, my God. And the caption said, somebody told Usher he was in the center square. Listen, you don't ever check in.

You don't ever check in. I'm going to send you the text I want to receive once in a while from you. I send you freaking gold. That was a great episode. And audience, if you're feeling

that was a little bit of a melancholic one, have I got news for you. Next week, living legend. It's the guest we've wanted for a long ass time. Alicia Silverstone.

You know, I just recently watched Clueless. Really? With your kids? I walked into the living room, and my wife and daughter were watching Clueless. That's funny. It was not funny. I started crying. No! It still

holds up. By far. It still holds up. It's a holds up like it it's it's a crying from nostalgia no britney came on on screen oh yeah and that shit wrecked me and i couldn't i at first i didn't know why and it was like oh my god her glow and her her uh. Oh my gosh. And we wound up doing a couple of movies together, but I started crying. I couldn't, and I didn't understand why. And that was why. One, because I was in a classic.

Two, because she was I got to experience it with her, and I thought she was really special. Did Wilder like the movie? I don't think she gets it. You know what I'm saying? It's above her head still. Yeah. When the movie came out't think she gets it. You know what I'm saying? It's above her head still. Yeah. When the movie came out, it was above Casey.

Casey was still young. You know what I'm saying? And so a lot of the jokes from the movie went over her head. So she watches it now, and she's like, I didn't get that back then. Well, I'm so happy we're having Alicia on because she's just really funny. And I bet has a lot of fun, interesting stories really funny. And, uh, that has a lot of fun, interesting stories to tell.

And it's something we wanted to coordinate for a while and we finally did it. So I'm stoked about it. What's crazy is that I'm not the one that got her on the show. You know, of course, you know, what happened was she reached out to me because when we talked about her

that time, someone must've told her and she left me a voice note saying i heard you guys were talking about me on your podcast and i just you i just went right into it i was like yeah we were will you please come on obviously donald has a connection you because of the movie and i have a connection you because my crush but also you were in my movie and uh so she said yes yeah i could see why you had a crush on her holy cow i think a lot of straight men and gay women i watched i think she was my background persons in general i just think persons in general i watched that movie and i was like

holy what she was so that was but i also i just love i, silly women, and that character, she was so funny and silly. She's going to be on the podcast, and we're going to talk about things. There we go. We're going to talk about Carol Smith. We're going to talk about freaking- Yeah, I'm going to have to re-watch the videos. I'm going to have to watch some videos, too. Let's go down.

You know what we should do? We should do a re-watch. Hopefully, the strike will be over by then, but we should re-watch some videos too. Let's go down. You know what we should do? We should do a rewatch. Hopefully the strike will be over by then, but we should rewatch some of her greatest hits. We're allowed to talk about Aerosmith videos. Okay, we'll talk about that. I want to talk about Excess Baggage. I don't think Fran Drescher controls the Aerosmith videos.

I don't know. Motherfuckers was not dressing up for Halloween, bro. Motherfuckers was not dressing up for Halloween. I bro motherfuckers was not dressing up for halloween i don't think anyone listened to that stupid rule although i'm just surprised i don't know bro i don't know my guy a lot of people are you my guy are you my guy are you my guy it's it's mixed it's mixed uh i think most notably uh megan fox dressed as a character from a movie and then she added sag and i was like yeah she tagged sag like why are you that was weird that was a weird choice she said come for me i guess she's poking the bear she's come at me do something about it are

you mad because i said my guy i just wondered because i haven't seen you in a while are you a are you the kind of guy who says my guy now? No, I just use it to be funny. Okay, because I just need to adjust if you're going to be a my guy sayer. No, I'm not going to be a my guy sayer. That shit cracks me up. Please don't. Every time I hear that shit, that shit makes me laugh like in a cringy way. Certain people can get away with it.

Like, oh my gosh, my guy. Certain people can kind of get away with it, but I don't really like it. I don't think you should be a my guy sayer. Who can get away with saying my guy other than me just now? I think there's a certain type of funny person that can get away with being like, come on, my guy. No, it doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way.

Daniel, you're not a my guy sayer. That's weird. Not much. I mean, maybe. Daniel might be a my guy sayer, I think, on his Twitch. I bet you Daniel is a my guy sayer. Honestly, I do it when I'm doing like a New York impression. If I'm talking to my friend or something, I'll be like,

my guy, what are you doing? Oh, that's not how I hear my guy these days. My guy? My guy. The very Irish guy. My guy. My guy. My guy.

My guy. What are you doing here, dog? What are you doing here, my guy? What are you doing, my guy? What's happening? My guy. Why does everybody use that? Whenever anybody says we're going to go Irish with it,

everybody goes, what are you doing here, dog? Everybody in the name of the father, right? In the name of the father, yeah. That's the one that comes to me. Everybody goes to that one. What are you doing here, dog? All right, we're going to take a break. When we come back,

we're going to talk, we're going to do a T-Mobile segment. We'll be right back. Hey, my name's Jay Shetty and I'm the host of On Purpose. I just had a great conversation with Michael B. Jordan and you can listen to it right now.

Michael is known for his performances in both film and television. His breakout role was in Fruitvale Station, playing Oscar Grant, which earned him widespread praise and numerous award nominations. His portrayal of Killmonger in Marvel's Black Panther, one of my favorites, further solidified his status as one of Hollywood's leading actors, earning him widespread acclaim for his complex and compelling performance. In our conversation, Michael really opens up. You're going to love listening to it. And I can't wait for you to check it out. The closest to getting what you want is always the hardest. It's always the feeling when you're

getting ready. You know, people give up right before they get what they've always wanted to get. People quit. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This segment of Fake Doctors, Real Friends is brought to you by T-Mobile 5G Home Internet, protecting you from exploding bills

with a price lock guarantee. Visit T-Mobile 5G Home Internet, protecting you from exploding bills with a price lock guarantee. Visit T-Mobile.com slash Zach to check availability. All right, go ahead, Joelle. So we have a letter here from Charlie Young. Charlie writes us, Hi, my name is Charlie and I'm 18 from the land down under, hoping I could be the youngest guest on the show, which I think you might be in the running.

Just wanted to thank Zach, Donald, Daniel, and Joelle for keeping my spirits high. I'm going through a really tough breakup and a depression period and just started a new job. And without your podcast, I would be in a world of constant confusion, pain, and grief. I used to watch Scrubs with my ex. However, this podcast brings a whole new set of memories I can create associated to the incredible show. This has led me to be able to eat again, sleep again, and have something to look forward

to each day from Donald screaming to Zach's, and have something to look forward to each day, from Donald screaming to Zach's jokes and perspectives on love and personal growth. To Donald screaming? I'm not even the funny guy on the podcast. I'm just the loud guy, it sounds like. No, you're funny. You just also are known for... Donald, all you do is scream. Well, I think every listener at some

point has had to adjust their volume because of you. Go ahead, Joelle. Charlie also appreciates daniel's calming voice and my infectious laugh so thank you for everything you guys do and for allowing me to get back on track his question comes from season four episode one you guys might remember this as the faith dancing episode this is where jd is outside the hospital trying to get pumped up for his day and he listens to faith by George Michael and does the famous jean dance. Oh, I had jeans on.

If I could touch my body. Not you, sir. He says, the question is, if Scrub was based in current days, what would J.D. and or Turk listen to before they went into the hospital? And then he has some suggestions, but I'm going to leave those, Charlie,

so we can hear directly from the guys. I think Donald and I would both answer the same name. Ready? Donald on three, one, two, three. P Olivia Rodrigo. A lot just happened. Who? I heard he said he and Olivia. Yeah. He said walking into the house would be into the hospital. Be.

I don't know what you heard about me. If the show was set in 2023, that's the song they would sing. No, that's not what I would choose. Fuck yeah, 2023. Look, this shit is timeless. Still a classic. Donald admitted to me that he's now on the Olivia Rodrigo show. Yes, welcome.

Listen, I like Olivia. She's good. But I'm going gonna be honest with you All-American bitch, we'd be walking into all-American bitch Good choice, solid choice We'd be walking into first-person shooter mode Big as the Super Bowl Big as the, wow Who's that, Lil Uzi?

No, J. Cole and Drake, baby I'm really feeling J. Cole right now Listen, I think right now If you're asking me, the three best rappers in no particular order. This won't be controversial at all. At all. I think everybody's going to agree.

J. Cole. If you can't say J. Cole, I don't know what you listen to. J. Cole. I agree. Kendrick Lamar. Obviously. I think that's pretty great. You got to go Drake.

I think the era of women rappers, that is a wild thing to say. The current best three. Well, in the era of women rappers, there's really Doja. That's A1. I'm not going to call for Megan. Megan's dope. Megan is dope, but she don't be spitting like Doja spit. Are you listening to Megan's albums?

Are you listening to the whole? I love Megan Thee Stallion. I love Megan Thee Stallion. We have time for all of this. Listen to me. I love Megan Thee Stallion, and I'm not even talking about the way she looks. I'm talking about how she rap. She got a very old school flow, she's very very witty with her

shit right now if you really want to ask me who the best rapper is female it gotta be doja b joelle what's your answer the best female rapper currently i uh there's so many i mean i really like megan like she's really well out. I think Doja is extremely talented. I like Rico Nasty. I was going to say Rico Nasty. Rico Nasty was on the tip of my tongue.

100%. And for male, Lil Uzi. I don't even know who that is. I just heard the name. Do you like Lil Uzi? Isn't that a rapper? Yeah, Lil Uzi Vert. Lil Uzi Vert. Daniel, who's your favorite male and female rappers currently?

You're a DJ. Goodness. I mean, Rico Nasty is really high up there. I love her a lot. I think Kendrick is really up there. I'm a big West Side Gun fan, personally. Isn't Lil Uzi Vert like Lil Evil? Isn't he trying to say Lil Evil?

Who's the one with the cross on his head and all that shit? Is that Lil Uzi Vert? No, that's 21 Savage. No, not 21. The guy 6x9. He has the diamond. Yeah, he has the diamond. Isn't he trying to say Lil Evil, some shit like that?

That sounds like a tiktok conspiracy i don't know what about the guy six by nine who was in jail he can six by nine takashi six nine i like that you said six by nine like it's a measurement was it like i like i think he could be left out of the conversation this motherfucker gonna run up on you zach no no i didn't say anything negative i'm asking you guys guys' opinion. I don't want to. You could say all the negative things about him, frankly. I don't want to. He's going to run up on you, Daniel.

Six by nine. His name's Daniel. He's not going to run up on me. That's fine. He has so many bodyguards around him to protect him from everybody else who wants to run up on him. So I'm not worried about it. Hip hop is in a state of no, like one of the best lines is in first person shooter mode. And he says says what happened to

all the bars it seems like everybody's on a jail is somebody's everybody's in a jail escape some shit like that but it's real talk man because nobody be spitting at all no more they just be talking i am i wanted to go back to our letter writer. Yes. A letter writer mentioned that he was going through a breakup, and I want him to know that this too shall pass, that he will, no feeling is forever. And as much as he's feeling like shit right now, he will come out the other side and rise like a phoenix as a better man. But anyway, things always get better i promise you and i i saw this meme on instagram and and i sent it to my nephew because he's you know out there in the dating world and i i do think it's the best and i sent it to amanda too and she said she already posted it on her stories but this is um it says the best piece of dating advice I've ever received is this.

If they like you, you'll know. If they don't, you'll be confused. Honestly, it's all you need to know. I love that. That's real talk. Simplicity. If I'm confused, I know you don't like me. Right. Listen, everyone's struggling with how to figure shit out. Why didn't he text back? Why did he do the dots? I think that if I'm confused, I know you don't like me.

Right. Listen, everyone's struggling with how to figure shit out. Why didn't he text back? Why did he do the dots? Why did he go? If they like you, you'll know. If you're confused, they don't. Mic drop.

Truly. Thanks, Charlie. I don't have my sound effects machine, so I'm going to add one. I'm going to do one, just improvise. Maybe you could give us one. T-Mobile forever. T-Mobile forever. The end of this podcast feels like when you're on with a crush and you don't want to hang up.

You hang up first. No, you hang up first. No, you first. I don't want to stop talking to you. Do you want to with a crush and like, you don't want to hang out. No, you hang up first. I don't want to stop talking to you. Do you want to watch a show together? Why don't we both start? Why don't we both start a show at the same time? Oh, one,

two, three, go, go hit play. When Harry met Sally. Thanks T-Mobile. If you're over exploding internet bills, visit T-Mobile.com slash Zach and find out how new and existing customers get T-Mobile's price lock guarantee for home internet.

I was going to say he's going to rise girthier. Okay. You hear the sirens? I'm in the X-Files. When you say girthier, what are you referring to? His shaft and balls? Well, see, no. Jeez Louise. And that's our show, everybody.

Thank you for tuning in. You guys, this was such a good show. I miss you so much. What has it been, two weeks since we've seen each other? Yeah, it's been a minute. Alicia Silverstone next week and Donald, I'll send you the text that I want you to occasionally just copy and paste seen each other yeah it's been a minute at least just alicia silverstone next week and um and donald i'll send you the text that i want you to occasionally just copy and paste to me i will copy it and paste it to you right away after you send it to me i just want you to know that

and uh thank you right now i do i miss you and i could use a little text from you okay how's new york it's beautiful it's so it's. I wanted to have that fall vibes moment. And it is so that beautiful. There's this, um, every, for those of you know, uh,

lower Manhattan, every gift season, November, December, they have this, uh, gift market in union square park. And you kind of just kind of a moment in the season,

you know, when you walk by and you see them starting to, to put it up that, Oh, here comes Christmas. It's like hearing the Mariah Carey song. So today I walked by and you see them starting to put it up that, oh, here comes Christmas. It's like hearing the Mariah Carey song. So today I walked by and they started building the giant gift market. And I was like, here we go.

Does Macy's still do the windows? Yeah. Yeah, but that's up in Herald Square. I'm talking about downtown. Are you going to head up to Herald Square? I don't usually go check out the Macy's windows. That's not usually a thing I do. But I'll do it if you want me to.

More of a Bergdorf Goodman kind of guy. Listen, there's so many Macy's in California. I remember when there was just one Macy's and it was on 34th street and I used to- I don't think you were alive when there was only one. My guy. My guy. Oh God. Oh my God. He's a my guy guy. You are a my guy guy. I'm a my guy when you try to insult me, my guy. Do you say my dude as well? Do you say my dude? No, I don't say my dude, my dude. Daniel, you don't say you try to insult me my guy do you say my dude as well do you say my dude no I don't say my dude

my dude Daniel you don't say my dude do you yeah I say my dude of course oh no my guy listen

listen to me what is the issue with my dude I just think my dude and my guy are so lame and 2023ish my guy

listen to me when I was a kid Macy's on 34th street was the only Macy's in New York City. There's no way that's true. Yeah, it is. Where's another one?

Maybe on the island of Manhattan, but in the other five boroughs, I'm sure there's probably another Macy's. There was no Macy's in Brooklyn. There was no Macy's in Queens. There was no Macy's. You had to go to 34th Street. That was it. Okay. I don't know that there's other Macy's now.

There is. They're everywhere. And you go to the mall, it's everywhere. Oh, you're like a little store, yeah. But not like a full Macy's. Not like the Macy's in New York. I watched Star Wars and the Macy's in New York at Christmas. Why? Why? Because it was on the television. Back in the day,

1985 or some shit like that, they fucking had vhs and they put star wars at the kids department while all the parents went and shopped oh so you sat and watched it with all the other kids i picture you like the kid in a christmas story except instead of going down that slide with the with santa you were just there watching star wars i brought my dad to macy's so we could watch Star Wars together. Really? Yeah, because he had seen The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, but he hadn't seen it at all.

Why didn't he just buy you the tape? Because it wasn't out yet. It didn't exist. Oh. Got it. Also, we were broke. I didn't have no VHS back in the day. No, you had no VHS.

No, you had no VHS. All right, guys. Five, six, seven, eight. Here's some stories about a show we made. About a bunch of docs and nurses and a janitor who loved to hate. I said here's our stories that we all should know. So gather round to hear our, gather round to hear our Scrubs Rewatch Show with Zach and Donald. Hi friends, I'm Danielle Robay.

And I'm Simone Boyce. And we're here to introduce you to The Bright Side, a new kind of daily podcast that's guaranteed to light up your day. Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more. We'll hear from celebrities, authors,

experts, and listeners like you. Whether it's relationships, friend advice, or figuring out how to navigate life's transitions, big and small, we'll talk through it together.

Listen to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine every weekday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Raquel Willis. Join me on my new podcast, Queer Chronicles, a show where LGBTQ plus folks tell their own stories in their own words.

This season, teens will share all about growing up in political battleground states. We will always exist and we will definitely not let them take away our joy, no matter how hard they try. Listen to Queer Chronicles on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your most fabulous shows. Hi, this is Shannon Doherty, host of the new podcast, Let's Be Clear with Shannon Doherty. So in this podcast, I'm going to be talking about marriage, divorce, my family, my career. I'm also going to be talking a lot about cancer, the ups and the downs, everything that I've learned from it. It's going to be a wild ride. So listen to Let's Be Clear with Shannon Doherty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you listen to podcasts.