Financial Feminist - 10. How to Live More Sustainably (For the Planet and Your Money) with Moji Igun

Episode Date: June 18, 2021

When you think about climate change, your mind likely goes to natural disasters or rising sea levels. You may not realize that the climate crisis is negatively impacting your wallet and the greater financial landscape. In this episode, I chat with friend, client, and zero waste consultant Moji Igun of Blue Daisi Consulting about the impacts of climate change, both ecologically and financially, and how we can create a more sustainable world. Order “Financial Feminist: Overcome the Patriarchy’s Bullsh*t to Master Your Money and Build a Life You Love”: https://bit.ly/3PpHvlC Our HYSA recommendation [affiliate]: http://sofi.com/herfirst100k Official Financial Feminist Merch: herfirst100k.com/hfk-merch Grab the Cash Calendar: https://herfirst100k.com/shop/cash-calendar Not sure where to start with your finances? Take the free Money Personality Quiz to get tailored resources for your financial journey: https://treasury.app/herfirst100k/money-journey-quiz Follow Moji on Instagram: www.instagram.com/hippiemoji/ Download the Free Guide for Small Business: http://bluedaisi.com/free-guide Imperfect Foods [affiliate link]: http://imprfct.us/lgsQ1 INSTAGRAM: www.instagram.com/herfirst100k/ TIKTOK: www.tiktok.com/@herfirst100k FACEBOOK GROUP: www.facebook.com/groups/362601367623070/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi team. trading involves risk of loss. Kraken's registration details at kraken.com slash legal slash ca dash pru dash disclaimer. Hi team, welcome back to Financial Feminist. I'm Tori Dunlap, money speaker and educator, founder of Her First 100K, and that girl who has a cardboard cutout of Timothee Chalamet in her apartment. He's wearing the silk suit from the Venice Film Festival red carpet because that suit was a revelation. All right, so when you think about climate change, your mind likely goes to natural disasters or rising sea levels, and you may not realize that the climate crisis is negatively impacting your wallet and the greater financial landscape. Now, if just the words climate crisis freaked you out, I need you to stay with me. I promise this episode is optimistic. I promise you that this is a necessary episode for you to listen to. Today's guest is my good friend, client, and zero-waste

consultant, Moji Egan of Blue Daisy Consulting. We chat about the impacts of climate change, both ecologically and financially, and how we can create a more sustainable world through tiny habits. If you're committed to bettering our earth for the sake of fucking saving it and avoiding a WALL-E situation, this episode is required listening. And please, if you love the show, rate and review, subscribe, tell your friends. We appreciate your support of our mission and this movement. Let's get into it. Give us an intro to you and we can talk a bit maybe how we know each other as well, but tell us about who you are and what you do. Yeah, so I am a friend of Tori's. I actually started out as one of your clients, which is really fun. But yeah, I am a zero waste and sustainability consultant specifically for small businesses.

So I help them find creative ways to reduce waste and be nice to the planet. You and I started off as many of my friends have now become, you know, they were clients and now they're friends. Yeah, Trisha's on this the season as well who is a client turned friend and so I just love love getting to know the people I work with and then becoming friends with them too so it's my favorite um so I am so excited to talk to you about sustainability and about zero waste especially as it relates to money. And when we were doing research for this episode, it became so clear to me how interlocked these two things are. And so if you could just tell me, first of all, how do you define zero waste? And especially for you, how does that manifest in your own life?

Yeah. So zero waste honestly sounds pretty scary if you're just hearing it for the first time. You're like, I'm supposed to make zero trash. What is that about? And so I found the zero waste movement actually on Instagram in 2017, just browsing in the world, found this thing about fitting your trash in a mason jar. That was like the whole like part of the movement. And I was like, I was shook. First of all, I was like, what is this? Like, this is wild. And then I started learning more about it. And I was like, wow, this is a really revolutionary way of thinking. Like the mason jar thing is pretty like, it's a good marketing thing and it's wonderful for being catchy.

But the deeper you go into zero waste, you're like, wow, this is really, really awesome. So what zero waste actually is, is it's like an industrial term that defines diverting as much stuff away from the landfill as possible. So when we throw things away in our trash can, it goes into a landfill where it sits forever and ever and ever. Like it's not doing anything. It's not and ever. Like it's not doing anything. It's not breaking down. Like it's just doing nothing. And so all of that natural and economic value is getting wasted, just thrown away. And so what the zero waste movement is trying to do is to stop that by recycling, composting, getting really creative about how we use our resources on this planet.

recycling, composting, getting really creative about how we use our resources on this planet. Yeah. So what are the financial implications of being zero waste or sustainable? And maybe what's the difference? Is there a difference between zero waste and sustainability or are they kind of one in the same? I would say that zero waste is like a niche within sustainability. So when you think about sustainability, like with a capital S, it's like energy and water and like all of the other pieces of sustainability that you can think of. Zero waste is just one piece of that, but it's interconnected with all of the other things. So you can be sustainable without being zero waste. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Yeah. And you asked about like your financial implications of doing that. Absolutely. Yeah. And you asked about your financial implications of doing that. And so when you're thinking differently about how you consume goods and services, you're able to save money and use your money differently. So I know you have the idea of the money diary where you look at what you thought, how do you feel about it? Does it align with your values? Same thing with zero waste. You look at what you're buying and is this contributing to greenhouse gas emissions and pollution in the oceans? Like thinking about how your values align with your purchases. So it's almost like you're a client or something. So when I, honestly, when I hear about sustainability or about zero waste, I almost think to myself that it's a very elite kind of choice.

Because when you look at buying organic food, when you look at buying things that are more expensive, but sustainable or reusable, these things tend to be more expensive. And so when I consider the financial implications of sustainability, I mean, to be honest, my head goes to like, okay, the rich people can be sustainable or the people who have means versus maybe the communities that need sustainability the most or would benefit from sustainability the most are not the communities that have access to it. So can you talk a bit about that? Yeah, absolutely. So you're not wrong. Like when you look at sustainability influencers on Instagram, you see a lot of rich white women who just have all of this time to go to 10 different stores and like, that's not me. So I totally understand that the visuals that don't really align with sustainability, but I like to break down that word. Like sustainability is the ability to be sustained.

So the ability to keep doing things for a long period of time. And so it's not just about getting all the high-tech sustainable products and whatever's newest on the market. It's about what can you do that will last a long time. So my version of sustainability is using the forks and knives

that I have in my house already when I go out to eat before COVID. We can go to do takeout. I would take my fork and knife with me, so I'm not using disposable things. So it's just simple things like that are considered sustainable, but they just don't always look like that in the mainstream. mainstream. Yeah. And it's just, when you think about the, again, the financial implications of sustainability, it can feel intimidating both to like actually get started, but also if you are not doing well financially and you're like, I'm trying to improve my carbon footprint as an individual, I'm trying to be more sustainable, but I'm already struggling to make ends meet. more sustainable, but I'm already struggling to make ends meet. Like that has to be a tricky balance there. Oh yeah. So whenever I like talk to clients, I always say that the first step is like

noticing what you notice, like see what problems you can address and what you can shift in your own life. But really like step zero before that is just becoming financially secure and stable. Like if you don't, if you can't pay your rent next month, like stop thinking about sustainability, like work on that first. So absolutely becoming financially secure, like getting your emergency fund, all of those basics down is absolutely a prerequisite for anything beyond that.

Yeah. So if we don't change our habits at all, what happens to the environment? Oh my gosh. None of us change if we keep at the pace we're going what ends up happening yeah i mean not to be a downer but like absolute no like absolute catastrophe like if you so i'll give a couple of statistics that will help like like put this into into mind statistics exactly so this is gonna be in the show i don't even care if you don't know what we're talking about timothy

chalamet the the famous timothy chalamet video of him in his high school statistics class just youtube search timothy chalamet statistics you will not be disappointed i walked right into that for you so i had to and i at least appreciate that with you i could actually do it yeah other people i just have to do this i'm like i never mind um yeah so yeah i'll give some some stats but um it's pretty bleak like it's not it's not good basically a couple of things is like the way, the rate that we're consuming our natural resources on this planet. So if we all consume like the average American, we would need five planet earths to be able to sustain at that pace.

So we need five times as much stuff than we actually have to live the way that we currently live. And so how many generations, like how long would that keep us around? I don't know. I don't have the exact, like by the year 3000, like we're done. Like I don't have that number, but it's just like, we're using things five times faster than the earth can replenish it. So we need to cut our stuff at least by 20% to even be like cut, breaking even. And Americans are like one of the worst countries in the world for that. So like, I know in like the UK, it's like a little bit less, but like still

not great, like more than one planet earth. And we, with, with trash, we, we contribute at least four and a half pounds of trash per person per day. And that's just like a random number. If you don't like have any context for that, but if you think about that on the scale of like thousands of pounds per person per year and then like the population of the city that you live in like millions of pounds of trash that once was a natural resource and now it's just sitting in a landfill with nothing to do like it's not right it doesn't have a place to go it's doing nothing so we're just literally just dumping things and holes in the ground with no intention or purpose. And so that is just as a habit, unsustainable. So we really need to

readjust the way that we look at the stuff we buy and make and shift away from that extractive way of being. Right. And when we say natural resources, can you just define what natural resources are? I mean, a lot of them are pretty obvious, but like- Yeah. Anything that comes from the ground. So like, I think about like my cell phone, like that is natural resources in terms of like the plastic that you need to like make all the little semiconductors, the metals, the battery. Yeah. All of that stuff came from the earth and like took a lot of energy and labor to get it into this product. And then at the end of its life, after what, three, four years of having an iPhone, you toss it away?

That makes no sense. So creating systems where we're not doing that anymore is the point of it. Yeah, and I know even clean water is a natural resource that in many countries is scarce. Yeah. Because of climate change and other factors you know factors around around the earth changing right now yeah so climate change makes it um the resource less scarce so like we're losing forests we're losing water like all of these resources are becoming less and less and then we're drawing from them more and more and so that just doesn't add up right so i took an environmental

science class in college back in the day. And I'm trying to remember the phrase and hopefully you remember it. This idea that things used to last for longer, but that they are now limited in order for us to buy more to boost the economy. Yes. Planned obsolescence. Yes. Yes. Thank you. I think about this concept all the time and I can never fucking remember the name of it, but yes, they talked about in my, in my class around light bulbs were something that was very common. They talked about, I guess there's this like in Ohio and like a firehouse, there's a light bulb that's like 120 years old or something crazy. And then pantyhose, they talked about how pantyhose used

to be. Like you couldn't rip them, you couldn't put a hole in them and they would last forever. But that of course was not helping boost the economy, boost, you know, consumerism. So talk to me about the financial implications of that decision to make things more temporary. Yeah. So then I want to talk about something called the circular economy, which is like zero waste on steroids. So zero waste- The circular economy, I'm like- Yeah, yeah. Like titillated. Yeah, it's titillated. The TLDR is that we are not throwing anything away in a circular economy. That's like the end

goal. And how we get there is that we create systems where we can reduce reuse recycle in the economy. So what that could look like, for example, is like back to the cell phone example, when you're done using your cell phone, you can give it back to Apple or Samsung or whoever, they will take it apart, like do whatever they do and then make a new phone out of that stuff. So we're not just throwing it away or e-cycling it, and then it gets like, we don't even know where it goes. The manufacturers are built into the system. And so that's what the circular economy looks like. And what that does, it decouples economic growth from the extraction of natural resources. So we don't have to keep

taking, taking, taking from the earth. We can just keep recycling what we have, still grow the economy, still do the stock market, all those things, but we're not taking so much from the earth. Versus what's happening now, which is planned obsolescence. Yeah, exactly. And continue taking from the earth to make things happen. And then planned obsolescence means like everything is designed to break at a certain

point. So we want to keep things breaking so that people keep buying things and that's not sustainable. So shifting away from that is where we're trying to go. Do you feel like there's also a, not just like a literal thing that's happening for these companies where they're making something that doesn't work as well, but I feel like we are, as a society, moving away from fixing broken things and instead just buying new ones. Yes. Yes. And I think that's partially because we've kind of lost the mechanisms for how to do that. I feel like younger, I know that I had to learn this stuff myself as an adult. Like, where do you get your shoes fixed? Like, I know it's a cobbler, but like, where's the cobbler? So like learning this kind of stuff as an adult is definitely not built into at least millennial and younger culture. So we have to learn this stuff ourselves. And so, yeah, it's definitely a culture shift that we have to get used to.

specifically and just have a new thing. It's like, and cheaper often than fixing the thing that has broken. You can just buy a brand new thing. That's by design so that we keep buying things. So yeah, it's all part of a system. Right. So how is a country and the kind of economics of a whole nation affected financially by climate change? That's something that's still in development. So there are a few countries in Europe that are like way ahead of the game in the circular economy. Like Denmark is doing some really cool stuff with circular economy, but we don't-

Do you have any examples? Yeah, I mean, so I don't have like very specific examples, but I know there's something called like a circular district or something of that name where like think about like a factory that gives off a lot of heat like through like those the smokestacks like they connect it with a factory that needs that heat to generate energy and so all of this stuff is like connected the waste streams become food for other things and so all the the things are interconnected and designed that way. And so they kind of have a couple of communities of that nature, but we're still kind of studying the impacts on GDP and economic development. But so far, everything looks like that it's

going to grow all of the things that we expect it to grow. So jobs grow, stocks grow, like everything is going to go upwards because we have so much more room for innovation and developing new things without affecting the environment. We're obviously anti-Trump on this podcast for obvious reasons. He had this huge push towards saving jobs that were focused on these kind of old ways of generating energy. So coal miners and oil production and all of those things. When I think about the financial, again, as an economy, it would be easy to think like, yes, we have to keep doing it the old way because it costs too much to do it this quote unquote new way. Yeah. Can you dispute that? I'm sure you can. And what does it look like if we do have these renewable energy sources? How does

that affect both the economics of a country as well as us personally? Yeah. So I actually think that this is part of Biden's new infrastructure plan, which is investing in renewable energy, or part of it is renewable energy and green jobs. And so yes, the dollar amount on buying all these new technologies, investing in this infrastructure, training people, all of this stuff costs more upfront. It's an investment, but it's supposed to, or theoretically, it's supposed to pay its returns off within a reasonable amount of time, like 20, 30 years. So what the real cost comparison is, because what people want to see is that price tag versus what we're doing now. That's not the real comparison. It's the cost of both that, but also the cost of not doing anything so like you were asking earlier like

if we allow our our seas to fill up with plastic and our water sources to deplete like what is the cost of that like we don't have a dollar amount for that it's just it's disaster so not that is what we're trying to do yeah well and of course like it's it's one of those things if it's more expensive but the right thing to do then we do the thing that's the right thing to do it seems obvious but some people don't think that way so yeah well because it's very easy and america i think is the very a country of of individualism right so it's like i'm taking care of myself and maybe my kids but beyond that it's like okay every man for himself right which is a little scary so let's let's not do that so much yeah so we found a stat when we were researching that air pollution alone in china has caused over

1.6 million deaths a year and this is not even talking about the the moral and uh and beauty of a human life separate from the economy yeah but the economic value of a life which i didn't know that we could we could say what the economic value of a life is but is seven million dollars okay meaning meaning their current levels of air pollution are causing this kind of social cost of over 11 trillion dollars a year yeah yeah that's not hard to believe like what is what does that mean for for a country obviously not you know the the loss and grief of losing people but also just like the financial side of that I imagine that's pretty devastating yeah so exactly so if we think about like what is the point of even making all these changes? Like we think about the environment as a separate thing

from us. Like, okay, like we're saving the environments, like hashtag save the turtles. That's all great, but it's all part of us. You know, like the environment is not this other thing that we need to save and protect. It's part of human society. Like we don't eat if there's no environment, like it's just that simple. And so you're talking about air pollution in China. Like it's not just like lung disease, heart disease, all the things that come with that, but it's mental health of having to deal with these really, like really not great environments to live in and to breathe in. And it's not enjoyable to be surrounded by air pollution. So it's all of these interconnected injustices that are happening that are not

just what's happening to the earth itself, but how it affects the people, the animals, like everything. So it's all like one system. Well, and separate from the economy, you talked about mental health, and you talked about being in, you know, unsafe conditions. We know that that affects money. you talked about mental health and you talked about being in, you know, unsafe conditions. We know that that affects money. We know that mental health and money are tied. And we know that if you are less safe, if you are less joyful or content or, or happy that your money will be impacted and your entire prospects or your, your future of, of not only yourself, but generations to come, that will be affected.

Yeah. I know when I'm like not doing well mentally, like I am just like buying things just to buy things. Like, you know, just doing anything to self-soothe. Which doesn't help consumerism and sustainability because now we're in this cycle. This just loop. Exactly. So we need to be mentally well, we need to be physically well in order to be able to sustain the environment and ourselves.

Yeah, I think this is obviously a very gendered perspective, but I think a lot of the personal finance advice aimed at women is like, you have a spending problem, spend less money. And when we think about again a society that is so focused on consumerism on not wearing an outfit more than once or making sure that you're always quote-unquote on trend right i see this juxtaposition between the personal finance community which is like you are spending too much as women spend less and And also of course, society, which is like, no, spend more, look cute all the time,

have makeup and have put yourself together and consume, consume, consume. And both of these things don't necessarily, of course they're, they're sexist as fuck and they don't acknowledge that there, there is a balance to those yeah absolutely and I think it's so it's part of that is to move away from that kind of patriarchal like guilt shame type of society um to one where we like make all of the sustainable habits and practices cool like I know that thrifting has been on the rise for the past few years. Like when I was a kid, I would thrift and it was not cool. Like I would wear these really oversized sweaters. It wasn't cool, but now it totally is.

Like Gen Z is rocking it with thrifting. And so it's just shifting our culture to see that these things that are sustainable are also on trend and also cool and kind of move us in that direction. and kind of move us in that direction. Yeah, and I think there's a lot of pushback now on fast fashion and on the economic, or excuse me, the lack of sustainability with fast fashion. But it also goes back to that problem of a $30 sweater at H&M, of course, is way cheaper than a $350 sweater

that maybe was made in a factory that wasn't by children and doesn't kick puppies and doesn't contribute to the ozone layer. So if you are a consumer, if you're a listener, how do you balance that? How do you go buy the $30 sweater if that's all you can afford? And then how do you not feel guilty about that? Yeah, yeah. So it's really creating your own definition of what sustainability means for you. So if you're looking at your bank account and you're like, I want to buy a cute dress for my next whatever,

and you have $100 to spend, figure out what's the best use of that money. Is it spreading it out over a couple of purchases? Is it using a little bit and then saving the rest for later? Is it buying that investment piece and going for that? Like it's just figuring out what works best for you because we live in a really messed up society where we can't make the best choices all the time, but it's figuring out when we can make those good choices and going from

there. Can you walk me through for you personally, what were your habits pre-finding the zero waste movement and what what is one in particular that you are like you find absolutely crazy now you're like I can't believe I did that yeah I think it's just more funny than than crazy but it's the way that I grocery shop so pre-zero waste movement how I would do that is I would just realize I was hungry and I would go to the grocery store and just walk up and down all the aisles and just like pile in things. You know, the financial ramifications of that. Yeah. You shouldn't shop hungry. Right.

Because you're going to buy more. You shouldn't go to the store without a list. Yep. Check. Check. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I just like, oh, yeah, I need that.

I need that. I need that. And then like hope a meal came out of it. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. I just like, oh yeah, I need that. I need that. I need that. And then like hope a meal came out of it. That looks good. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So always over budget, never like had the right things, was going back for multiple trips, like not great. And then obviously have changed that after zero waste. So the way I shop now is I have a CSA that I get every week. So I have a little box of organic food that comes to my doorstep. CSA? A community supported agriculture. So it's like any farm in the area will send you whatever's in season and they just like, yeah, I can send you a link later or like share it with the whole

crew. But yeah. I have imperfect produce. Is that similar? Yeah, that's pretty similar. It um the same idea of just having like what's in season and sending it to you instead of buying things from other places so yeah I do that and then I have some like local bulk stores that I get like grains and rice and all that stuff from so mostly zero waste except for like my my guilty pleasures like chips and ice cream and stuff but mostly zero waste grocery shopping. So huge like habit shift in that, in that range. So are you like taking your mason jars with you to go shopping?

Before COVID? Yeah, absolutely. I would like bring like little bags. Oh, let's talk about that. Cause I didn't even think about that to be honest. Like how has COVID affected zero waste? Cause I imagine like I can't bring, I mean the one, one of the only like, like very clear zero waste things I think I do in my life right now is bring my reusable bags to the grocery store so I don't have grocery bags, but they weren't doing that because of COVID. I didn't even think to ask you about that, but it's so obvious now that you say it. So how, how has COVID affected zero waste in general, but, and also specifically your

zero waste journey? Yeah. So personally it's made things a lot more difficult because what I would do is I would have my little zero waste kit with my little basin jar, my fork and like my bags and all that stuff that I would go run my errands and it would be pretty, pretty low waste. Um, but now we have all of these like safety precautions with like no reusable mugs at the coffee shop and all of these things are kind of restricted. So I try to like dive and dodge things as I can, but like we do what we can. We're in a pandemic, like I'm not being too hard on myself, but there are a lot of things that you

can't do anymore because of health and sanitation. But yeah, overall, like the zero waste movement is still alive and well it's just kind of pivoting right now and holding off until we can actually get back to our practices again so yeah it's kind of like we're holding our breath and trying to make it through yeah i think one of the most famous things infamous maybe about zero waste is the straws and it's actually i did not plan this i got like my straw kit I got for Christmas from my mom. But if I remember our conversations correctly, you are, are you kind of against the straw? There's like a beef you have with straws. Yeah. So I think that it's just not, the

conversation hasn't been nuanced enough about the whole, like stop using a straw. Talk to me. Yeah. So yes, don't use a straw if you don't have to. That's great. But what was happening is that restaurants and like all food establishments were starting to ban plastic straws like left and right because they wanted to like take this thing and run with it, which is great that they wanted to make this change. But what it does is it leaves out a whole community of disabled people who need straws to consume things and so they had some like caveats where you could ask for a straw and like you can still get one but then it makes it puts the burden on people with different abilities to

have to like right convince you that they need one or ask for one and just makes it really uncomfortable and it's not accessible. And so try to create ways where we are thinking about not just what's good for the environment, but how can we keep all kinds of people in mind when we're making these habit changes. It's a great point. And it's something if you are able-bodied that you might not think about. Right, exactly. So like I have my reusable straw. That's not a problem, but I want other people to have access to what they need too. We talked about this a bit earlier.

Again, we found a statistic about these lack of like filters in schools. And so the air pollution is literally making children less intelligent, which of course can affect their financial earning power over time. And we mentioned this kind of with China, right? If you are breathing in bad air, if you're in a worse environment, you are less likely to have better economic prospects.

So what are some ways in addition to that, that you see the environmental like degradation of the planet already affecting our money and our wallets? Yeah. So that leads into the conversation about environmental racism and where that stuff happens. Where I grew up, I grew up in a nice bougie suburb of Detroit where we didn't think about air quality or water quality because it was always great. But when I graduated college, I worked in the North end of Milwaukee in a public school in a ninth grade classroom. And it was upwards of 90% Black students and then a small community of Asian students. And they had high levels of lead in

the water. And it was just a thing that we knew existed and no one was doing anything about. And that lead was causing developmental issues in a lot of the students which like you said affects people's like ability to earn things in the long term so environmental racism is what that looks like it's certain people black and brown communities have to deal with these burdens unfairly and so it's even further creating these divides in economic and social progression. Well, like Flint, Michigan, just down the street. Yeah, exactly. That's like the big one. Yeah, absolutely. Of not having clean water and not having access to these resources, which it's not like access to anything crazy. It's just like, right. The basic necessities of life, which is safety and food and clean, clean water to drink and cook with.

And yeah, and that has, again, lasting effects on individuals, but also on the economic growth of a society if we're not able to give people safety. Yeah. And we were talking earlier about like the cost, like what's the cost of making these changes? Like what's the cost of leaving all changes like what's the cost of leaving all of these communities out of the equation like we're not considering them we're thinking about who's going to move forward and build this this country like that doesn't make any sense like it's a better investment to care about these things right well and, again, it's the right thing to do, even if it's, yeah. And I think we often, it's very easy when you're talking about the economy to think, you know, to not see, see individuals and see people. And so doing something that saves money on taxes, right? Or, or, you know, lowers the GDP. It's like, yeah, but at what cost to

people, especially to black and brown people? Exactly. Yeah. So to piggyback off of that, as a black woman in a very, as you said, kind of rich white lady movement. Yeah. What do you have to deal with that maybe a white person talking about zero waste doesn't have to deal with yeah so I actually had a thing happen this week at a conference where yeah yeah I didn't go into it but it was a conference about sustainability and I was one of maybe um a handful of people of color at the conference. And so I tuned in early before my speaking session to just tune in and watch. And it was a panel of a couple of white people and one black person. And only the person of color on the panel, only the black man was talking about race and colonialism and culture and how that intersects with the environment. Everyone else was talking about carbon emission metrics and water goals and all of these really great things, but like not even touching anything

to do with like being a black and brown at all. And so I see that a lot of people either don't want to touch it if they keep it 10 feet away because it's like, ooh, that seems a little complex. I don't want to get into the whole race conversation. But it's totally integral to what we're doing. If we want to create a more sustainable world, it's also a more equitable world. And so what's inequitable right now is how black and brown people in America are being treated. So we have to talk about this in order to create solutions. And so I was just sitting there like, is no one white going to talk about this? And I feel like that a lot. Like, am I, do I always have to bring this up or can white people just like do it sometimes? And then it's on you to bring it up. And then how, you know,

how potentially are you viewed then? Right. Oh, here's this angry, quote unquote, 80 angry black woman. Or, you know, if you don't have white people talking about it, it's maybe not a true issue, which of course it is. Right. Or like you're derailing the conversation. That's not what we're talking about today. You're just supposed to talk about trash. Like, no, it has to always be inclusive. So yeah, I absolutely see that happening. And my whole goal is to make sure that I'm always like being disruptive about that. Like if you're not talking about it, I'm going to bring it up. Like we can't talk about this topic without talking about race and all of the root causes of all of these um power imbalances so yeah yeah that's uncomfy I'm sorry it's okay I mean it's not okay but like dealing with it yeah well and

I imagine when you're in spaces that are predominantly white these things feel more novel whether as if and I imagine there's not a lot of sustainability conferences aimed at the black and brown community is that accurate um I would like they're not really conferences they're they're more of community groups who are doing this sure they are actually doing this work much better than most of kind of like the most people are but they're just so underfunded they under resource like people don't pay attention because they're just like oh they're just so underfunded they under resource like people don't pay attention because they're just like oh they're doing like whatever black people do over there like it's very like i don't know it's it seems very like there's a huge disconnect between what black people and

other people of color too but i'm just speaking to my own experience what we consider sustainable and then what the mainstream considers sustainable. There's this weird divide and we really need to bridge that gap somehow. You're saying a divide between like the narratives or how zero waste is talked about, or like, is it the actual practices that feel different? I think it's both. I think it's the way we talk about it. I mean, I've had people come up to me and say, like, sometimes people come to me and they're like, I just want to reduce my trash as much as possible and like stop there. And like, they don't want to talk about like anything else having to do with sustainability. It's not just like, let's recycle this better and then we'll all be happy. It's how can you redistribute your wealth and the stuff that you have?

If you're creating excess of something, how can you redistribute that to people who don't have that something? Think about how you can solve social issues. How can you create jobs? How can you add value to your community? So it's more than just like, let's send it to the right bin. That's not what zero waste is. It's so much deeper than that. What number recyclable is this? Yes, we care, but we also don't like, let's get deeper than that. Yeah. Well, and you mentioned your clients. So your work is largely with small businesses and making them more sustainable. If you are a small business owner who's listening,

what advice would you give to them? What are maybe like three things that they can do to be more sustainable that are not like super, that are more cost-effective and aren't super crazy expensive? Yeah, so I would say, first of all, just notice, like notice what you notice because I can't give you a blanket

solution. Like if I told you everyone get a solar panel today, like that's not realistic or maybe applicable. So just, and that's what I do with my, with clients, the money too. I can't, there's no one size fits all solution. And we also can't make changes until you know what's going on until you get honest with yourself about what's happening. So yeah, I love that. Yeah. So that noticing piece and how I do that with my clients is something called a waste audit. So what I do is I dig through people's trash. I analyze it. I understand it. It's really super fun. Like, please hire me to do that. Hire me to dig through your trash. Does that seem, I mean, obviously you have clients, you have business. That seems that seems I mean I would

let you probably because of course you're a your friend but that seems very intimate yeah yeah there's definitely some pushback people are just like I don't want you looking at my stuff but like I try to help people say that about my money about money right they're like I don't want you looking at my yeah it's so funny because for me I'm like oh I'll talk about money all day long but like oh you're gonna look at the shit I throw away I don't know why that makes me uncomfortable it is really intimate though it's like I learn so much about people by what they throw away so it's it's true but when I stack a tampons and the like sometimes like sometimes it's really it's usually just like packaging materials and paper. I guess usually not that intimate, but just understanding what you throw away in the first place. For some clients, it's packaging up the wazoo. How can you shift away from bubble wrap to maybe paper products? What can you do to make that shift? Or maybe sometimes it's like you're a maker and you make a product, what excess pieces come off of that and how can you reuse that? So that would

be the first step is just notice what you notice. And then I would say from there is just start with one thing. Don't try and do it overnight. Don't try to fix it all. Just pick one thing and be like, okay, over the next month, I'm just going to address this one issue and then go from there. So small shifts, simple shifts. That's like what I advise people to do. It's literally how I view money too. I know we're the same in that way. Well, yeah, it's, it's, you want to start investing, you want to pay off debt and you also want to save an emergency fund and you also want to buy a house. It's like, that's super overwhelming. Yeah. So you gotta, you gotta start with one. You gotta start with the emergency

fund. Right. And, and yeah, that way it doesn't feel like you're climbing Mount Everest. You're not looking at this mountain being like, how the fuck do I climb this thing? Right. Exactly. 71% of waste is produced by the top 100 companies. Is there a way that we as consumers can vote with our dollars to shift this? Yes and no, because there's only so much the individual can do. And that's kind of where I got to on my own personal zero waste journey. Yeah. Tell me more about that. Yeah. So I was, I mean, I started in 2017, just like bringing my bags to the grocery store, like bringing my own jars to the bulk section, all of these really simple things that I can do on a regular basis. But then I was looking at my favorite coffee shop

and seeing the dumpster behind their building just filled with all of these plastic cups and all of these things that it's like, okay, I bring my own mug, but that doesn't help the grander scheme of things. So do what you can on an individual basis. That's amazing. Please keep doing that. But it's also like talking to these businesses and telling them that we won't accept what they're doing right now. So if you are into fashion, for example, and you see a fashion, fast fashion company that can, like, you love their, their styles, you love what they're doing, but they're not paying their garment workers anything, like say something to them. Be like, I love you, but like, I don't want to buy from you

until you fix this thing. And like get your friends together to do it with you and then see where it goes. Like creating these movements that you don't have to be an activist in the traditional sense. Like it's just getting a group of people together and making something happen.

So there's the voting with your dollar on an individual level, but also building momentum with people and trying to get people to actually change those systems. Yeah, I think we look especially at climate change and we go, this problem is so much bigger than me. And it makes you want to curl up in a ball and just up. Right. And tough question, but like do individual choices actually make an impact? Yes, I believe that they do. And I think that it's not just individuals alone, it's in combination with movement.

So whatever you're passionate about in terms of sustainability, there is a organization, there is a group of people on the internet or in real life that are working on that problem, find them and join them. That's the best advice I can give you. So it seems like, okay, like this one thing that I'm like bringing my own straw, like what does that do? Like sure, it's great. Like what does that really do? And like in the large scheme of things, like really it doesn't do much, but it takes out that one piece of plastic that you don't need to use otherwise. And it just at least shifts your mindset into thinking about this thing in a more deep way. So yeah, it has to always be both together the individual and the systemic change.

Yeah. So, I mean, we're talking about straws and of course I've heard, you know, focusing on a plant-based diet, right. Eating less or no meat, trying to walk or bike rather than drive. There's a big one, which is basically stop having children so like have no children or fewer children and do you think we should focus our efforts on things like this or are we focusing on like a whole lifestyle rather than like reducing the amount of people on earth that is a really good question honestly like I can't tell you to not have kids like that if you want to have kids I'm not asking you to yeah I don't think like straws like all of these small things are great and then also there's there

seems to be this like almost guilt at least that I like feel or that we're having this like collective guilt around like it's almost like we're doing these little things to make ourselves feel better about the fact that like I'm still gonna go on a plane and I don't know if I'll have children yet but I still might have children right or like like there's these big, big, big things. And then when you zoom out even further, you're like, yeah, but it's still corporations that are causing the majority of this.

So why should I feel quote unquote punished if I want to have a kid and feel like I can't? I don't know if I have a question here, but it just seems like we have these, we have these, of course, smaller things. And then we have these, we have these of course, smaller things. And then we have these bigger issues that also go into like actual huge lifestyle shifts or like the life altering decisions. And then you zoom out even further and it's like,

what the fuck does it matter anyway? You're right. So I don't know if I'm right. I don't know. I, it's just, it's, it's something that I've thought of more and more about.

Cause I've actually have conversations like Christine will be on the show, my best friend Christine. And we had, like, an hour and a half long conversation about, like, and this is super, super intimate and vulnerable. But, like, is having children, your own children, selfish? Both for other reasons, but, like, predominantly knowing. And, again, this is not a judgment statement. But, like, just thinking about that like is having children especially your own and not you know adopting or anything like that like is having children selfish knowing what we know yeah I don't know it's really tough because there are these misconceptions that overpopulation is the problem like we have too

many people on this planet and we need to have less kids to like save the earth. And I don't think that's fully accurate. And I think that's a little bit problematic to kind of like put that guilt on people like you're saying. And what the real problem is that we distribute resources really inequitably. So I believe, and I think that there's actually scientific evidence behind it,

that we have enough stuff on this planet to feed, clothe, like water, everything. Like we have enough. Well, and I've heard the stat, right, that we have enough food in the United States, but still, what is it? One in three children go hungry. Yeah. And it's based, I think it's like 25% of food goes to waste before it even gets to grocery stores. Like it's, it's wild. And so we have the stuff. We have all the things that we need. We're just having really inefficient systems around it. So if you want to have kids, have kids. If you want to adopt, adopt, whatever. But it's just thinking about it's not your individual fault that we have this mess of situation. And you not having kids or having kids or whatever

you choose is not going to drastically affect it. It's just thinking about, okay, I'm going to have this kid. What can I do to kind of make this as sustainable as possible? So can I go further and like buy reused clothes for this kid? Like what else can I do? Like, I don't want to make you shift your lifestyle in a way that you're unhappy because that in itself is unsustainable. What can you do to be happy and be nice to the planet? A good friend of mine and I went to a play a couple of years ago. God, I wish I knew her name of it. But it's a gorgeous play about this couple who basically are trying to decide if they should have kids or not because of climate change and it's a beautiful conversation

about it and i don't want to spoil it but if you ever get a chance to see it they put it on i think it's seattle is it seattle rep or i'm sure i remember but it's a great look at like just the intimacy of that conversation and the ethics around it and yeah your own wants versus you know global right, right. So highly recommend it. Yeah, it's a play called Lungs and it's beautiful. And it's really interesting. Yeah, and I think that another thing to add is how people think about like,

what does the future look like for our kids? Like, what future are we creating? It's like, there have to be some people to take this forward. So yeah, it's like, what are you trying to build? Are you trying to build that next eco warrior who's going to be some people to take this forward. So yeah, it's like, what are you trying to build? Are you trying to build that next eco warrior who's going to be like creating all these new awesome technologies? That's great. Are you going to create the next new like activist? That's cool too. Like just thinking about what does that look like for the future for yourself? Yeah. I don't know how much you know about this, but something I didn't even think about until we

started researching, there's going to be an estimated $23 trillion in damage to the financial system as a result of climate change. And specifically, there's a lot of businesses like insurance companies that are likely to fail. Yep. Is there a way to protect or implement solutions to guard against this, what seems inevitable, this fallout? So again, I'm not, I'm not an expert in that topic, but from what I understand. I'm asking you huge questions. You're going to need to follow up with someone else who like knows this. But, but what I do know is that we think about sustainability as this kind of like,

we got to fix all these things that we've messed up, but there's also like these practices that have worked for like eons that indigenous cultures all over the world have been doing. So things like preserving certain species of like, for example, salmon here in the Pacific Northwest, like protects ecosystems but then protects like certain natural barriers that protect against these kind of natural disasters so like it's again all interconnected but it's like we just need to return to those ways of being and listen to the people who have been telling us what the problem is for like forever so yeah that that brings in the whole listening to

Indigenous people and trusting that they actually know what they're talking about because they do. And so what can we implement that will return us to that way of being? So like we see, I don't know, like sea level rise that are like washing away entire beach communities. Like all of that stuff can't be prevented at this point, but what can we do to protect that stuff in the future? All of that stuff can't be prevented at this point, but what can we do to protect that stuff in the future? As a layperson, I think about the bees. I hear about the bees all the time. The bees are dying.

And if the bees die, we're fine. Yeah, it's true. Is it true? Is it accurate? I mean, yeah, the bees. Talk to me about the bees. Yeah, actually. So I have this really cute thing where my business cards are plantable paper and they have wildflowers in them to like support pollinators. But yeah, the bees are like the foundation of our entire agriculture system because they cross pollinate all of the plants, which help our food grow.

So if we don't have pollinators, we don't have food. And so, yeah, protecting. She says it casually. If the bees die, we don't have food to eat on a shirt moji die we starve that'll get people's attention but yeah i love you for that they're gonna be yes i want to talk to her at this cocktail party no yeah i try to like approach all this stuff with like optimism and fun so yeah but it is true optimistic happy people i know but yeah we do want to protect the bees and all the pollinators so it's just like a a thing we want to do and make sure that we don't make these systems collapse

it's a lot don't get overwhelmed. I'm thinking, but how? And you've given us but how, you know, in many ways. But yeah, I hear that. And I'm like, how am I going to save the bees? Yeah. So, I mean, this goes right back to your point about like, I want to do retirement and buy a house and emergency farm. You're not going to save the planet. I want to, you know, make sure the coral reefs are still here.

Right, right. And you as Tori, one coral reefs are still here. Right, right. And you as Tori, one person can't do that. You know this. Don't stress yourself out. So pick one or two things. You pick one or two things. Go hard in those one or two things. And then just do that.

Like if you're going a hundred percent, like what is the Parks and Rec quote? Like don't half-ass a bunch of things. Oh, don't half-ass two things, whole ass one thing. Exactly. Do that. the parks and rec quote like don't half-ass a bunch of things do things the whole last one thing exactly do that and like if you're into zero waste like go hard like follow me on instagram and like we can go hard on zero waste but if you're into other things like do that i'm trying to think what my like sustainability thing would be i feel like it's money and like economic is that enough quote unquote oh yeah like if everybody was stable, that gives us so much more room to do everything else. So absolutely, you're part of the sustainability solutions. You're on it. Almost like you proved my thesis for me.

Thank you. It's almost like money is completely connected to every part of our society. It's almost like I say that all the time and that I need somebody to tell me that. No, you're right. You're right. Because, yeah, when you have proven that over the last hour, when you have economic foundation or not even economic, financial foundation,

personal finance foundation, you can support sustainable companies or to donate to causes you believe in or, you know, fucking put a beehive in your front yard. Right, you want me to do that? I see, I think there's a couple of people on TikTok that are beekeepers. Have you seen these?

No, not yet. Oh, there's like one person. I think they're in Texas. I'll try to, again, I'll link's a couple people on TikTok that are beekeepers. Have you seen these? No, not yet. Oh, there's like one person. I think they're in Texas. I'll try to, again, I'll link it in the show notes. I'll try to send it to you, but she like rescues bees. Oh. So because like bees will like take over people's homes and shit. And so like, I guess she got this video that went viral that I saw. She got this call from this man who had, I think it was like a shed and bees had like overtaken the shed and he

didn't want to call an exterminator. Cause he knew how important bees were. And so she literally came out, she was not wearing bee gear at all. If she was not wearing beekeeping and she was like, yes, yes. I saw that floorboards.

And then she was like, Oh, I found the queen and there's the queen. I had to get the queen in. And once I got the queen in, everybody followed her in. It was like the coolest video. Yeah. And I like,

there's gotta be something out there. Do you know what slow TV is? Have we talked about this? No. It's still a lot. Okay. So slow TV, I think it was Sweden.

Okay. They will like strap a camera to the front of a train. Okay. They will like strap a camera to the front of a train and literally just broadcast 16 hours of this train going through snowy mountains. Like on their like ABC or PBS equivalent. Like they will literally put it on cable for like six hours. That's my dream. That's my dream. There was this another video I think they did of like this person like making a bench and woodworking and so they call it slow tv of just like and i think it was yeah it was sweden it was one of the i think the countries in scandinavia but people like lost

their minds like one third of the people in the country watched the slow tv and so i would watch slow tv of bees that's my roundabout like i would literally just watch of bees. That's my roundabout. Yes. I would literally just watch. I would put that on my, like while I'm reading or while I'm working, I'd watch bee colonies. Yes. It makes me think of, so when we talk about sustainability, we're talking about like health and like wellbeing and financial security. There's also like the just slowing down of the pace that we move in our society. slowing down of the pace that we move in our society. And so making space for rest as an individual is part of your sustainability practice. Like if you have not taken a nap this week,

like schedule time for a nap and get that on your schedule. Like tell me, tell me why that's sustainable. So when we're going, going, going at like this insane pace, like we are working eight hours a day, we come home, we're making dinner, like we're doing all of these things, right? Where do we have space to breathe? Where do we have space to notice? It's just the pace at which we move is like more and more and more, faster, faster, faster. And like, that's part of this culture of consuming to consume and like not paying attention to what we buy. And so what happens if we just take a beat, slow down, take a day to think about our purchases, take some time to just replenish ourselves, make sure that we feel good, that we're getting what we need. All of that is part of at least my personal sustainability practice. And burnt out,

stressed out people can't make a difference and they can't keep their shit together. So it's just being as healthy as you possibly can be by slowing down well emoji that's a beautiful point because when I think about like when we are hectic like the perfect example is I bought a pre-packaged thing because I didn't have time to cook dinner yeah which is okay every once in a while it happens but like doing that all the time or yeah I went to Starbucks and I are they doing reusable cups now with COVID I don't even know if they are but like starting it again soon yeah so like perfect example of like I was you know pre-COVID maybe I was too busy to pack my cup or

I forgot it yeah or like you have a wedding next week and didn't plan on what you were going to wear so you you know you couldn't be intentional and figure out sizing and things that were going to be sustainable that were going to fit. So you're like, okay, I'll just go to target. Right. Or like I'll buy two or whatever, like your budget allows you, like just getting things so fast. And it's just, I'm not perfect. Like it's very much a practice of me, like having to remind myself, like did you take time to rest?

Did you like cancel that meeting that you don't actually need to be at? Like making that space for yourself so that you can make sure that you're able to move at a pace that works for you. Yeah. So climate change is happening and that's what sucks, but it's already, it's happening happening is there any way that you would recommend protecting ourselves kind of retroactively instead of proactively from its effects i mean so there are so many different ways that climate change is going to affect us and so i don't want us to get overwhelmed by all of these but paying attention to like like, like I said, one or two. So let's think about just like, like something that's simple that I think that we've all been

doing at least during COVID is like ordering lots of takeout. So that is amazing. I have been doing that all of the time just before my local businesses. Like I have been ordering takeout at least twice a week, like for a while. It's great, but that's not sustainable for me to continue in the future. And so how can I slowly shift my behaviors to a way that's still supporting those businesses, but finding ways to get back into using my reusable containers or going into restaurants or whatever I'm comfortable with as we kind of open back up. But it's just slowly shifting our habits and paying attention to the little things we can

change and going from there. So yeah, small, simple shifts and paying attention to like my biggest pieces of advice. Yeah. I have been ordering poke almost like weekly and they uh would never pack chopsticks and so i just bought reusable chopsticks there you go well and i'm gonna be honest it was not a sustainability choice it was a they always forget to pack me chopsticks and i need a pair of chopsticks that works too though it ends up being a sustainability thing on accident that's perfect yeah i hate eating poke with a fork. So my last question for you is, and we've given so many examples already, but if you had just like a couple different, you know, zero waste or sustainable things that somebody could implement in their life either today or this week in order to be on the journey to zero waste or be on the journey to a more sustainable life? Yeah. So I would say if you're

comfortable with it and you're excited about it, do a trash audit in your home. Even just peek into the trash bin and like pick out five things that you can see at the top of the trash can and be like, could I have done this differently? Like you see a takeout container. Could I have done this differently? And just ask yourself that question. Start there. I think doing your money diary and adding in the sustainability aspect of it could be really helpful. So did I feel happy about this purchase? And how is this effect on the planet? Can I tell? Do I know? What do I know about the sustainability of the thing that I bought here? And just kind of start asking yourself those questions. And then I would say just really getting your financial foundation down so that you can make these bigger investments. So if you are able to get yourself

out of debt, get yourself your emergency fund, start investing and you're good, you've done those basic things. Can you spend more on your clothing budget to support sustainable brands? Can you invest in sustainable stock options? Can you give money to your local mutual aid groups?

What can you do more than what you're already doing once you're stable? Yeah, I lied. I have one more question for you. Not as a sustainability consultant, but as someone who has been on a financial journey the past couple of years, how are your finances different now? What decisions have you made that have impacted your money the most? Yeah, that's a really great question. And it's really funny coming from you because like you started my financial journey. So it's just like, so my first goal when I started working with you was to get my emergency fund down. So I was trying to leave my full-time job. And so I was trying to get my money all squirreled away and work on my business full-time. And so I got that six month number. I was quitting. I had my, I was, I didn't have any

debt, so I was good. And then I started getting my Roth IRA set up and I was like, okay, okay, I'm doing the thing. I've got it. And so now when I look at my money, I'm supporting businesses just to financially support them. So I have some friends that have like sustainable startups, but I don't necessarily need the product that they're selling, but I'm signed up to it because I want their business to succeed. So I spend that extra cash that I have that I'm not using on whatever goal I had before and just giving it to things that I really care about.

So that's one thing. And then the other thing is I spend more, like probably than the average person on things like my groceries because I buy from like a really local organic farm but I want that stuff to thrive so I'm able to spend more on things that I could technically buy cheaper but I'm spending more money on them because I truly want them to succeed and I believe in them so I'm able to make those choices because I'm financially stable and that's like what we're trying to say here is like, you got to have that foundation first. And I think you also pay rent to the Duwamish people

locally here in Seattle. I don't do it every month, but like every like six months or so, I send a big donation that I can afford and like, yeah, pay for rent on the Duwamish land. So yeah, just having that extra cash to throw around, like without really thinking about it is like the goal for me yeah and if you're not local to the Seattle area the Duwamish tribe is a group of native people here in the Seattle area and so there is this huge push I'm sure in other cities too but in Seattle to like pay quote-unquote the real rent of paying your you know your normal rent to your mortgage while also contributing money to the the native people whose land we're on. So yeah, it's, it's the

testament to what I'm trying to do of like, when you have money and we're not talking Jeff Bezos money, we're not talking like Scrooge McDuck swimming in pools of money. We're just talking about like, you're not living paycheck to paycheck. You have some flexibility with your, your finances. You are building wealth for yourself and other people. You have choices. You get to quit your job to fucking run your business full-time you get to you know yeah pay rent to native tribes you get to donate to the causes you believe in you get to support businesses you get to yeah have takeout from a local business that might be more a local restaurant that might be more expensive but you know where your money is going yeah and i want to be super transparent at the end here too, with like what, like what we mean

by having enough money. And I'm not going to give you my exact salary because I'm not comfortable with that, but I'm making less money than I was when I was working full-time in my engineering job. I'm making less than I was four years ago when I was doing that. And I'm still having this extra money to throw around. So this is the least amount I've made in my adult life, but I still have able to figure out a way to give money. So we don't have to be making like six figures, like millions of dollars. It's really just like having enough for yourself. And then the extra can go to what you care about. Right. Moji, where can people find you? You can find me on Instagram at hippie Moji. That's where I'm most active and most like talkative. Oh, I think one thing to add is that if you are a business and, or you work for a

business and you're thinking about zero waste in the workplace, I have a free guide on my website. It's bluedaisy.com slash free guide, and you can put it in the, in the show notes. But it's a five step roadmap on how you get to zero waste. And if you already kind of know what it takes to take zero waste, but your boss doesn't really care about it, use that as a tool to convince them that they need to do it. So, yeah, if I can help in any way, please reach out. Moji, thanks for being here. Love you. I took away so much from this episode and I don't just want to talk the talk. I want to walk the walk.

So here are three sustainable habits I'm committing to. And I'm saying them out loud. I'm saying them to thousands, hundreds of thousands of people to commit. Number one, I will save leftover veggie pieces like heads of bell peppers or ends of celery stalks, and I will put them in a Ziploc bag in my freezer to make veggie stock so I don't have to buy it. That's my first commitment. My second commitment, now that we're allowed to again, I'm going to bring my reusable bags to the grocery store and make sure I pack them every time because

I forget them all the time. And finally, I'm going to start showering with a bucket in the tub so it can catch any water that comes down and I can use it for my 55 plants in my apartment. I want you to commit to three sustainable habits. Think about it, write it down, then share it with us on social media. Like Moji said, it doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be big, but you do need to make an effort. So I'm committing to these three habits. I would love to know your three. Y'all, we're coming up on the last two episodes in season one of Financial Feminist. What a season. What a way to start this movement. What a way to kick off Financial Feminist, the podcast. Again, y'all have been so supportive. Keep liking and subscribing. If you want more information

about what we discussed in this episode, more information about Moji, myself, and this show, check out our detailed show notes at financialfeministpodcast.com. I can't wait to see you back here next week, Financial Feminists. Last week is season one. Talk to you soon.

Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist. Talk to you soon. L. Johnson. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton and photography by Sarah Wolf. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and our sponsors, go to financialfeministpodcast.com.