Financial Feminist - 104. The Hidden Cost of Alcohol with Kelsey Moreira

Episode Date: August 1, 2023

The sober-curious movement has grown substantially in recent years as women especially begin to re-evaluate their relationship with alcohol. During the pandemic, levels of drinking skyrocketed, which has a direct impact on our mental and physical health, and of course, our wallets. We’re joined by Kelsey Moreira, founder of Doughp, the cookie dough company with a mission to help women in recovery, to talk about her journey as a sober business owner. We also dive into her time on Shark Tank, including the hypocritical reason her company was passed up for funding and ultimately how she overcame the setback to build a business she loves. Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at  https://herfirst100k.com/start-here-financial-feminist-podcast  Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'd really lost myself. Like when I got sober, it was literally a question of like, who is Kelsey? And like, what does she like to do? What are my hobbies? Literally, if people came to visit, it was like, we're going on a brewery tour. And like, we would just drink the whole weekend with like any friends came to town. So it was so interesting to be faced with that and go like, who do I even want to be? And yeah, this like annoyed stubbornness is really what's kept me sober for eight years. Just being like, hell no, I'm not letting this stupid thing, which is so unimportant. Not only is alcohol like a horrible toxin for your body and I operate at a way more efficient, better level without it, but I get to choose who I want to be and how I want to show up every single day.

And that is a huge blessing that I'll call robs from you. Hi, Financial Feminists. Hello. Welcome back. I'm so excited you're here. A reminder, you know the housekeeping. Subscribe, leave a review. This podcast is free 99. And we love that. We love that for you. And one of the ways you can support us and continue allowing us to do this show is by hitting that subscribe button, by sharing the podcast with your friends, by listening to episodes that feel interesting to you. We are so, so grateful to our sponsors to help us bring this to you for free and leaving reviews, subscribing, sharing, help us continue to do that. So thank you so much. Today, we are diving into a topic that is feeling more and

more relevant. There's been this like current reevaluating of a lot of old systems and belief patterns in our lives, especially as we're moving to hopefully close out the pandemic. So we're talking today about re-evaluating our relationship to substances, especially alcohol. We sat down with my friend and fellow business owner, Kelsey Marrera, to talk about her company, Dope, that not only makes delicious cookie dough, like literally, guys, the best cookie dough I've ever tasted. It's so fucking good, but also supports women in recovery, which is a cause close to her heart. After getting sober in 2015, Kelsey left her decade-long tech career and launched her own cookie dough company, Dope. With more than $13 million in lifetime revenue, it has appeared twice on ABC's Shark Tank, has been ranked in the Inc. 5000 fastest-growing companies in America, and has grown an extremely passionate fan base. Kelsey was named a Forbes 30 Under 30 and is a leader in the mental health and recovery advocacy space.

Through hashtag Dope for Hope, Dope is committed to reducing stigmas around these topics and has donated more than 100k to non-profits in the space we brought kelsey on to one talk about shark tank because i'm a little obsessed and she and i had talked offline about her shark tank experience but i had to have you all hear it it is a tale of her killing the pitch and her better understanding how the whole thing works, and also some misogyny from Mark Cuban, so stay tuned for that. And we also wanted to talk about her journey to sobriety and how that changed everything for her. This is not an episode meant to make you decide to, you know, 100% quick drinking or 100% go sober if that's not a thing for you, but I think throughout this show, it's always a good idea for us to go into these conversations curious and to also figure out what they could be teaching us, right? We always want to reevaluate the systems and the habits that we have in our lives. And I know, and I tell Kelsey this in the episode, that I have been reevaluating my relationship with alcohol. And at the time we're recording this, that doesn't mean cutting alcohol completely from my life, but it does mean being more intentional about when and how I drink and what I drink. I literally

actually was at a like women's entrepreneurship dinner last week. And it was an open bar with a signature cocktail. And normally I would have been like, hell yes, free alcohol. And I had been flying that day. I was up at three in the morning and knew that me drinking alcohol was not going to A, make me feel like my best self and B, allow me to sleep well that night. And so I was just like, you know what, I'm going to drink ginger beer and water. And that was a great decision for me that honestly, I probably wouldn't have made even a year ago. And I think there's something so freeing about just asking yourself, is this what I want to do? Is this what I want to do right now?

A couple stats and interesting facts before we dive into the episode with Kelsey. Excessive alcohol use is associated with more than 43,000 deaths among women, and binge drinking, which is crazy that this is binge drinking. It's defined as four drinks for women and five drinks for men in about two hours. Heavy drinking is defined as binge drinking on five or more days in the past month. Americans spend roughly $249 billion on alcohol, and that was in 2010, which breaks down to roughly $807 a year per person. Excessive drinking costs the U.S. $179 billion in workplace productivity loss, which is very interesting. Some interesting stats to be curious about. A slight trigger warning in this episode, there is a conversation about sexual assault in Kelsey's story and,

of course, substance abuse. So if that's something you'd rather not listen to, totally get it. We want you to take care of yourself. We'll see you back here next week. So without further ado, let's get into it. We'll see you back here next week. So without further ado, let's get into it. But first, a word from the companies that allow us to bring you all of this good free content. You know who I learned this from is sarah blakely spank queen she was once quoted talking about this saying that like in the early days of spanks like you would just literally not see her anywhere without her spank shirt that's really smart she was like if she's doing anything if she was asked to speak anywhere it was like i'm always gonna have the shirt and the logo. So yeah, I stuck with it.

Dope all day. I need to wear mine more often. My shameless plug is just putting my book in three spots on my bookshelf. Look what I'm reading. It's so many books. How'd you get so many books? It's almost like I wrote them. It's crazy. Where are you located these days? I'm trying to remember where you're at. Yeah, we live in East Texas now, a tiny town. It's literally got 3000 people in it. It's a little bitty town where my 93 year old grandpa lives for my whole life. But my Nana passed away about six years ago and I wanted to be close to him. So once is, and I were running the company remotely, like we'd close the storefronts down. I was like, we could be anywhere. What are we doing in Vegas? Like, I don't drink, you barely drink. What are we doing living here? And like, we don't have the store.

So, so let's go ahead. And we moved in late 21 out here and it's just been the best. I was going to ask you, is that a weird transition going from like splashy big city living to middle of nowhere? Totally. We were like San Francisco, Vegas, and then made it out. So like, we're just migrating. And for my husband, who's from Brazil, like he went from 20 million people where he grew up in Sao Paulo to 3,000 now. But yeah, I just love it. It's like such a nice feeling, like know your neighbors, really safe. And I don't know if you know this, but Iz and I are expecting our first child.

I'm pregnant. Yay! Congratulations. So excited. Wow. Yeah. Thank you. So we're like in the perfect spot for that. It just feels like it's a little bit of an older community. I mean, hence my grandpa living here, right? It kind of was a getaway for people that used to work in Dallas, like wanting a

retirement community is kind of how it got started. But with remote work, some younger families are coming in. We'll be the first family born on the street in like 35 years or something. Isn't that crazy? First new baby born on the street. like 35 years or something. Isn't that crazy? First new baby born on the street. We've got some old neighbors that told us that. They're like, we're going to throw a party for this street because it's the first time a baby's been born here. It's so cute. So cute. Yeah.

So we love it. We're happy. That's so amazing. Congratulations to you and Iz. I have known you, oh gosh, for a couple years now. Yeah. And I think you and I got connected I'm trying to remember if I cold pitched you I'm trying to remember how it happened no I think

it was Davidson Dixon was it which has since been acquired but yeah I think Mackenzie and and Kelsey they hooked us up for like an influencer like hey send some product and then we were like hey you're also really awesome we should just be friends yeah they're good friends of mine who are Seattle entrepreneurs and yeah they they have a marketing agency that got acquired. And so, yeah, that, that sounds about right. Sounds right. The crazy thing is, of course, I have to ask you about Shark Tank. Cause that's how I discovered you originally. I think all of us who just are like viewers of the show are so curious about like what happens behind the scenes. And I know you've told this a million times, but any like nuggets of the show are so curious about like what happens behind the scenes and i know

you've told this a million times but any like nuggets of shark tank like i think once you told me that you when you walk out you have to stand there for a couple minutes totally like silent to get like all the shots but like tell me all the dirty details that somebody watching shark tank would have no idea sure and i love it too i was the same way i mean i watched this forever since season one and always was like what would this be like to go on? And what's it actually like? And basically it was nothing like what I thought. I had no idea it was going to be so real and so not scripted. Like they really are the real deal. One of the things is that's really interesting is like when you go in, when you get to start, there's no cuts or

breaks or like, I need to go to the bathroom or could I look that up really quick? It's nonstop you standing there and answering the drilling questions until you make a deal or all the sharks are out. And so I think the longest record is like three hours, which is crazy. Which when you're a viewer, it's 15 minutes. Yeah. Right. Even less. It's crazy's crazy it's like i was thinking as i was watching it for the first time when it aired i'm like thinking it's gonna be like a 10 15 minute segment you know but it's literally like seven minutes i think for that first you know airing we were on in 2018 yeah filmed it in late 2018 aired in 2019 but

yeah the thing about waiting to have them get all the shots. So you're standing behind the doors to wait and open up and let you walk down the hallway for the first time. And I'm the solo founder. So I was standing there by myself, literally more nervous than I've ever been in my entire life because they count down from like a hundred to start because there's so many people. Am I going to die? So I've never been more certain that I was going to pee my pants. That literally is the Hunger Games. Do you watch it? Have you seen that movie where it's like they count down? It's exactly like that. And then it's like the Hunger Games because the sharks are going to eat you. Yeah, totally. Yes. So it's suiting. But that was like, I've honestly,

you know, I spoke at a keynote once in front of like 4,000 people live. This was way scarier. Like I was so, so, so intimidated before the doors opened. And then for some reason, like as soon as they opened, I just had this like calm come over me that was like, I've prepared for this my whole life. Let's freaking crush it. And I just walked down, hit my mark, awkwardly waited for the 30 seconds until they say, begin. As you mentioned, they want to get all your shots, like looking serious and staring at each other and I'm like so bubbly so of course

I was like really fighting myself to not be like hi hey it's so cool to meet you like good to see you I had to just look like stern Kelsey which doesn't ever exist so it was unique one of the things that you and I talked about that I would love to spend a little bit of time discussing today is you did not get a deal in the tank, right? And Mark Cuban, the reason he cited for not giving you a deal was, hey, this cookie dough company sounds great and it tastes good, but like it's not healthy and I'm thinking about the health impact. And then, and you can give me the timeline, was it six months later, a year later, he invests in a company called Fat Shack run by a male entrepreneur. Which literally that whole thing was not just like, this is a product that might

not be the healthiest. It was literally like the thing of this product was like, you come to gorge yourself on like burgers and fries. So talk to me about that double standard. Literally 2000 calorie sandwiches is what they sell. That's like their marketing thing. It's like 2000 calorie sandwiches. So super crazy. You know, when you look at a product like dope, we're like, Hey, like life's about balance, like have a little treat. It does have butter and sugar, but it's literally made like you'd make in your kitchen. It's cookie dough. And we're not ashamed of that. So to have that be where the conversation went on Shark Tank was, for one, so jarring.

I was not expecting it to be like, hey, with the health, obesity epidemic and all this. And yet Cuban saying everything about this says it's an amazing investment. I just can't get behind products that say, let's eat more. And then it was not six months. It was not a year. It was actually about an hour later that he filmed the fat shack. It airs the following week after my episode, which is why I kind of got a little bit of buzz. Inc magazine wrote an article about it and Cuban and the fat shack both declined to comment. But a couple of years later, I believe this was actually last year. I got to meet the fat shack founders and they were like, Kelsey, we have to tell you,

we have such survivor's guilt. We felt so bad watching what they had said to you. And then that we got the deal, when were you filmed? And we go back into our photos and pull up the timing of what time my slot was when I walked in because I took a picture before I went in the doors and they had done something similar. we're literally like an hour apart in filming. They were like right after me. Oh yeah. Isn't that crazy? Oh, it hurt. It hurts so bad. And then, but you kind of just got to go like, was this for TV? You know? Cause after the episode, everyone was like, man, like she crushed it., she crushed it. I had been flashcarding every business that you could imagine for the company. I knew my business front to back. I

knew we were going. All the passion's there. The product's there. The sales are there. We were profitable. Everything was so shining to say, yes, let's do this. This is going to be amazing. So for it to be like, oh, you know, Robert Herjavec said, how many people would you say like cookie dough? Anybody who's ever eaten anything i was like i would say a significant amount like it just felt a little like were they telling them to like find ways to kind of dog on cookie dough or that we're not sure about the health crisis and stuff it was so weird yeah it feels like it feels like virtue signaling mixed with as someone who has watched every season of the show sometimes i think they just like i don't i don't want to do this deal

which is 100 in their right but they have to find they get a story tv in order to like because people don't understand i think right the average like person doesn't understand like venture capitalists are sometimes just like no this is like i just i i don't want to do this deal and so maybe that is mark cuban being like virtue signal plus like for whatever reason like this just isn't for me and then i have to come up with a reason for it like inhaled the whole plate of samples he was like the most down on the samples i remember being like so fucking ridiculous like cleared the plate like he's totally gonna be in and then it was no just dropped off a cliff which and I will say it is truly the best cookie dough thank you like I love it and it is I don't mean to like make this like an ad for don't like truly you can you can bake it or you can eat it raw and that was always my thing was

like my mom would make cookies and I would be in there eating raw cookie dough she's like you're gonna get sick and I'm like I don't fucking Yep. You can eat it raw or baked. And so fuck you, Mark Cuban. It's so funny. Yeah. It took a lot, you know, like you build up for that moment and you're thinking like, this is totally it. Like how incredible that I'm even here to be filmed, you know, 40,000 people try out and about 140 are filmed for a season. So the odds of just being there were crazy. And when it didn't happen, I mean, I was crushed. Like they kindly cut away from it. But as I'm walking out, I like lean back and wave, like clicked my heels.

And I think I said, have a dope day, you know, kind of our sign off from dope. And as soon as I turned my back to them, I mean, the waterworks, like I was full on hyperventilating as soon as I turned the corner and the camera was like three inches from my face. You know, when you're walking out, the camera's just right there. And I totally was like, wow, the world, like America's going to see me have this like meltdown. And I was, I was ready for it, you know, with mental health being such a big stance for dope and something we talk about so deeply, I was like totally preparing a response of like, yeah, when you put your heart and soul into something like that was feeling the raw feels and like people were going to see it, but they ended up cutting through it. Like you kind of see, I'm looking a little teary

eyed. They gave me about 30 minutes to like get myself together before I did those closing comments afterwards about like, they'll see me again, you know, and all that, which was really kind. But yeah, when I was like, I collapsed like on the ground crying and they were still filming me. So it was really cool that they just chose to say, you know, let's let this moment be just hers and not need to like exploit it, you know? But yeah, I took a mental health day the next day and then picked myself up, found another investor to get the capital for that Vegas store, which is what I was raising for at the time and opened up the store like four months later. So a couple of months before the episode actually aired, which was incredible timing. So just a testament to like, doesn't matter how many no's you get,

you just keep going and find somebody who's, who does believe and who's willing to say yes. Well, and my last question about the Shark Tank experience for you, like you don't get a deal, but you're still get this platform and they had you come on as well to do like one of the updates, which my mom jokes, I used to watch the show with my parents and every time an update would come on, she'd be like update. I'm so excited. And so she was always really excited to see like what people were up to. Literally, she was just so excited. And so like one of the things that I loved is they had you back and they sometimes do this where it's like, hi, I'm thriving. I'm doing great. I didn't get a deal, but I'm doing great. So like what happens

if you don't get a deal? Are you still seeing the boost and stales? Are you like, I didn't get a deal, but I'm doing great. So like, what happens if you don't get a deal? Are you still seeing the boost in sales? Are you like, I've seen people be able to use, you know, appeared on Shark Tank and their marketing. Like what happens even if you don't get a deal from Mark Cuban or Kevin O'Leary? Yeah. In the end, it's like the best thing that could have happened because in so many cases you do get a deal on TV and then it falls out in diligence. I'm hearing crazy numbers like 60, 70% or more. Right. That's the thing. Tell me about that because people think, oh, anybody who's getting a deal has got a deal, but they're done. Oh, they've got Cuban on their cap table. They'll never need money again. And like, you know, investors are probably looking like,

well, they're probably handled. And you know, it just turns you into like, you have a shark on your table, but there's so much that happens afterwards. And yeah, I've heard it can be a nightmare, not only in that many fall out, but just the time you end up committing to diligence, some like a year process. I've heard for a few teams that took a year in diligence and I'm sorry, but the capital I was raising, as I shared, I ended up opening that store. I filmed in September, I opened the store in March. I wasn't ready to wait a year to go through something like that anyway. So to have all those energy and resources into Diligence and have it fall out would have been traumatic.

So going without a deal, when it aired, we had, I think the number is something like 143 people reach out wanting to franchise the brand, loving the concept and just business opportunities, wanting to sell the product in their stores, that kind of thing. So that was amazing. And lots of franchising, because again, we had the storefront concept back then versus being e-commerce and retail now. And then we had something like 50 investors reach out, wanting to invest in the company.

So yeah, I think it was just such a great platform to go out. It was the first time on a national stage to share my sobriety journey. And the messages we got from just an individual basis were so incredible. People feeling like seen and heard and like their story, being able to make it on a big stage. Someone, this one always stuck with me. Someone had mother had lost her son to the disease of addiction a few months prior, I believe she said in February, and this had aired in May. She said, for some reason, the only show I can bear to watch is Shark Tank. And seeing you last night felt like a message from my Ryan. And I just want to thank you for sharing your story. Got me crying. Yeah. Got me good. Yeah. All those things just make it like totally worthwhile. And then it continues to

re-air as the years go on, you know, so it's just, it stays out there. Yeah. They love this clip. I was, Barbara Corcoran had said, what do you see for your business in the future? And I was like, world cookie dough domination, like with my arms all thrown out and they put it in all these clips teasing, you know, Shark Tank episodes. So it's really fun. You know, my husband's Brazilian and his friends back in Brazil have seen it. I think a friend saw it in Portugal too. And I'm like speaking Portuguese because they have it dubbed over in Portuguese, which is so funny to see. I'm like pitching my company in another language. Pretty cool. So just the whole reach has been nice. I've heard, you know, things are hit or miss on how much it drives for sales versus the old days when you used to watch it with your

parents, you know, when you're at home, same thing for me. Like it was prime time. It was like Shark Tank is on, we're all sitting down, we're all watching it. That has a hugely different impact. I mean, that's why the super bowl is still the super bowl. Cause like everybody's sitting down and watching it and all those ads are like hitting at the same time. Now with shark tank, it's kind of like, you know, who's going to watch the reruns when maybe they watch it on Hulu. Like, so it was sort of this trick. That's what I do is I watch it six weeks later. Yeah. Still. Yeah. So it was kind of this like rolling thunder for's what I do is I watch it six weeks later. Yeah. Yeah. So it's kind of this like rolling thunder for me, but I think all those outside benefits of like being

able to say you were a shark tank company, like that was a cherry on top. I think they they're so it's so far down the road now they've had so many entrepreneurs that it's not as big of a weight as it used to be, but being paired together with like, Hey, we also have a fricking kick-ass product. And this mission is amazing. And that's the story I've been bringing to retailers. And the Shark Tank thing is just one extra. Some people will recognize us more than another brand because we have had this recognition from Shark Tank. Now, twice, luckily. I know this about you and your brand and you know you're talking about the mission and the values

and you've sprinkled it a little bit but for those who are unfamiliar with dope it's cookie dough great cookie dough but in addition you have this this really important element of focusing on women's recovery and addiction and can you talk a little bit about why that cause is so close and important to you? Yeah, for sure. Sometimes I joke and I say, we're a company built to break the stigma on mental health and addiction recovery, and we just happen to sell cookie dough to do it. So that's a nice reframing for just how serious it is for us. It's not like a side, oh, we have some philanthropy, we kind of do. It's like, no, this really is at the forefront of what we're doing.

And the cookie dough is just sort of a means to the end, a delicious means to the end, no less. But for me, you know, my journey to starting Dope is what led us to have this be our mission. I myself will celebrate eight years sober this September, which is amazing and like hard to believe. Congratulations. I remember when like eight weeks was sick and I was like, cool, eight months. And it's really crazy to think it's going to be eight years. But yeah, as a child, like I'd really struggled with my anxiety and issues of perfectionism, like so

many of us, just like my achievements were my worth. And that added a lot of like mental strain and stress on just a kid at the time. And then when I was 16, got this opportunity to go work at Intel. And that was a big jump from being a kid to being an adult. And all that added pressure and stress of like me wanting to get those achievements and be the best I could be just went, you know, full force in corporate America. So I didn't have the best coping mechanisms for my mental health. And I drank for the first time when I was 14 and had snuck out, you know, lied to my parents about where I was going, went to this party and I drank till I blacked out the first time I ever had alcohol. And I remember thinking like how peaceful it felt that I could just be like the rest of the kids.

Like everyone always seems so cool and relaxed and like, you know, not worried. And that like, let me be like them for the night. Like it sort of felt like I could just let go of all my, my stress. So that really started what became, you know, a 10 year relationship with alcohol that, you know, got out of control a number of times. And through the years, always tried to find a way to keep alcohol in my life, you know, as hard as something would get, as bad as the outcomes would get as hard and horrible as I'd hurt people close to me. It was like, well, okay, I'm only going to have tequila or like, I'll only have wine. Or maybe I just do, you know, like I'll have a water after every drink and I'll only drink on Tuesday nights or something, whatever. I always had these different things I would, would try.

Yeah. We call that bargaining. Totally, totally bargaining. Like, and it's just a facade. It's just, it was really this desperate attempt to be, to not want to be different. I really felt like, especially at those ages, you know, I was 24 when I got sober. I just felt like I didn't want to be different. Like, why couldn't I just figure this out? You know, little voices in my head saying like, hey, this kind of runs in your family. You know, my mom was an alcoholic, got sober about a year after I did. My Nana, who I mentioned earlier, she passed away at 21 years sober. So I had a lot of this in my life and a real great voice from my Nana who was encouraging me along the way to get sober. I would promptly tuck all of

those letters in the drawer because I didn't want to face it. It was really hard at the time to realize you have a problem, but I had kind of the one last hurrah. It was September of 2015, and I was on a business trip for Intel in Spain. And to give you a little bit of history on Spain, happy opening up and sharing about this. I had been to Spain four years prior to this date when I finally got sober. And it was a study abroad trip, very beginning of a study abroad trip. And also, oddly oddly in Barcelona and almost four years to the date in the past. So going to the study abroad trip, I was 18 at the time, 18 turning 19. And so I was going to be able to drink and, you know, for the first time,

like go to bars and go to clubs and all this. And, you know, one thing led to another. We're after a little bit of pre-gaming out at a club and a group of guys walked up with some glasses of champagne. They were one short for the group. And so I said, oh, sorry, I didn't get one. And one guy left, got a glass, brought it back to me. And I have nothing but splotches until coming to totally naked under a park bench in Barcelona with none of my belongings. And I had been raped, had to go do a rape kit with people speaking Catalan. I had studied Spanish and I had no idea how confusing hearing Catalan would be in Spain. And I was flown home the next day by very worried parents and a boyfriend at the time

who I had just started dating about six months before that. So you fast forward now four years later and I'm going back to Spain And I'm just convinced that it's going to be different. In this in-between time when I was 21, I hit an ultimatum with that boyfriend who said, you need to get sober. And I had gone six months and was like, okay, this is good. You know, like a reset. We just decided I just needed to reset. And so six months without alcohol, like as soon as I started drinking again, I was blacking out, you know, within three weeks. And the events continued, but things had like spread out enough that I just really thought like, it's going to be different this time. You know, I'm going to go, I'll reclaim like my experience in Spain and, you know, with

alcohol in my life, there was no reclaiming my experience. So this business trip, I started drinking, you know, right when I got there, there was a welcome bottle of wine from the Marriott and, you know, pop that open at like 1030 in the morning, went to meet some co-workers at the pool and on and on, you know how the story goes. Ended up coming to a 3.30 in the morning in a stranger's apartment. I had cheated on my boyfriend, lost my belongings again, just all of the things that just did not represent who I knew I could be and the type of woman I wanted to be moving it through the world. So after getting through a very groggy morning and picking up the pieces of what was happening, I called my Nana that morning from Barcelona and said, enough's enough. I'm

ready. I want to get sober. And she said, you better get your butt to an AA meeting. She's Scottish and had this sweet accent. I won't try and mimic it because I wouldn't do her justice, but she said I needed to get my wee butt to a meeting. And I found an English-speaking AA meeting in Barcelona and have not had a drink since. Thank you for your vulnerability. I'm so sorry that happened to you. One of the things you said that I literally wrote down because I wanted to come back to it, as you said, I wasn't the woman I knew I could be or wanted to be. What did it feel like? Like to know, okay, I have all of this potential, but this thing that feels now uncontrollable is barring me from

the possibility of everything I could be. Honestly, I was so annoyed. I was so annoyed, so pissed off that like, why is this so hard? Like, look at all these other things I've achieved in and this career I have and like all these other things I've achieved in this career I have and like all these other things that look so great. And I'd always, you know, excelled in school and everything was so good, but like, I wasn't able to really break through and find me and like, let myself shine through. It was like coasting through life, you know, like I was kind of just with the motion on of this is just what I'm going to do. And I really lost myself. When I got sober, it was literally a question of like, who is Kelsey? And what does

she like to do? What are my hobbies? Literally, if people came to visit, it was like, we're going on a brewery tour. And we would just drink the whole weekend with any friends came to town. So it was so interesting to be faced with that and go like, who do I even want to be? And yeah, this like annoyed stubbornness is really what's kept me sober for eight years. Just being like, hell no, I'm not letting this stupid thing, which is so unimportant. Not only is alcohol like a horrible toxin for your body and I operate at a way more efficient, better level without it, but I get to choose who I want to be and how I want to show up every single day. And that is a huge blessing that alcohol robs from you. We're starting to have, I think, a conversation more

in society. And we actually have a member of our team who is like her side business is in talking about sobriety, coaching about sobriety. I think there's this feeling of like, unless you have a problem, and I'm putting like problem in quotes, like, oh, I don't need to get sober. But I even know, like, I have started, especially Beth, who's the member of our team, like, I have another friend who's also one of our collaborators, Mallory, who hasn't had a drink in, I think, almost a year. And I'm starting to even evaluate my own relationship with alcohol, because I truly, I don't have an issue with that. But at the same time, there's some times where, yeah, I drink too much, or I don't have an issue with that. But at the same time, there's

some times where, yeah, I drink too much or I don't like the way I feel, but the situation was like, okay, well, everybody's going for drinks. You're not going to have a drink or like, okay, you're at a wedding, like there's alcohol served. And for me, especially as like a frugal person, I'm like, if the alcohol's free, I'm going to have it. But I'm having like this reevaluation of like, okay, when do I want to drink and I want to be more intentional about it. So if somebody is listening and they're doing the like, well, I don't need to get sober because I don't have a problem. One, what would you say to them in terms of like potentially reevaluating that relationship? And two, is that sometimes what people say when they actually do

have a problem and they're just in denial? Yeah. Sometimes there's a kind of common saying that if you're asking the question, there might be a problem. Sure. You know, if you're being drawn to question it, like there might be a problem. But I agree. Like there's such a change in society with just how we're viewing this decision to get sober. And it doesn't have to mean, I guess the greatest thing is like, you don't have to get to the like movie stereotypical rock bottom. Like you don't, and this is how I felt. I didn't need to wait until I had three kids in my car and I was getting a DUI. You know, I didn't need to wait until like I lost my job because I showed up drunk one day. Like I was able to say like, this is enough. Like the horrible things I'm doing when I am drinking, like let's just stop it. And

like you get to decide when your own rock bottom is. And it doesn't have to be what like people assume or think of as a problem. It can just be, it can just be your own version of it. And, you know, the even lighter layers of this of just a world looking for more connection and realness and authenticity and finding other ways to socialize, like the mocktail movement. I mean, there's plenty of ways to go out with your friends for drinks and have a really cool drink that doesn't have alcohol in it. There's lots of decisions like that where people just want to, you know, not feel like shit the next day. And a lot who start out with like, well, let's just see how I feel. And then it's like, well, this is great. Like after a month or two months. And so here they are a few years down the road. No problem. They just don't drink. That's most of my friends who have gotten sober.

And you find it gets easier. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the same thing with me. Yeah. Where I'm just, I, I, for many reasons, I don't think we'll completely stop drinking. Like I like, especially whiskey. Like I love the taste of that. Like that's something that like I'm going to Scotland this summer and it's like, oh, I get to order a cocktail and it was kind of thrilling. And then that just became the default of just like, okay, I'm out. Like, I'm not just going to drink water. And now I'm asking myself, like, do I actually want the thing? And often I don't. It's just like, or like flip a few pages back. There's literally a sick mocktail menu. It's so many bars and restaurants now that like look cool. I will order a ginger beer now most often versus like a, like, yeah, it's like, okay, I don't want to just drink water, but I don't want to have alcohol. Yeah. And let me tell you too, like bourbon was my favorite. Like that was my

choice of my drink of choice towards the end. Um, spiritless for anyone who is sober or looking to get, um, get sober spiritless makes an incredible Ritual has one as well. I found it's good, but I really enjoyed the Spiritless one better. I've literally been making Manhattans and old fashions and they're so good. So Spiritless is for the win. They have a really great one. They make a tequila too, but harder to mimic tequila still these days. But the bourbon is like fucking crazy. We'll throw a we'll throw a party or something, you know, have neighbors over and people who do drink, like we'll say, can you make me one of those? Like that tastes amazing.

So it's cool. What is the biggest myth about drinking or sobriety that you wish you could debunk? Oh, just that you can't have any fun. I mean, I still think that that one sticks that people who look at it and they're like, you got sober, like ban. I mean, even like you said, at a wedding, for example, that was literally one of the first things I remember telling my mom, like, how will I get married? I literally said that. How will I get married? Like in tears, hysterics that like I've ruined my life. Like, and now I have to be sober and like, this is going to be so hard. And how

will I get married? I'm not going to be able to champagne toast. Like that literally crossed my mind. And there's a thousand things I could rattle off that are perfectly fine to go in a champagne flute and toast with. And I am happily married and had my, you know, I think I had like kombucha or something, champagne glass to toast with. So yeah, it's just like, there's a whole world out there. It's really get blinders on and sort of this autopilot when alcohol is a part of your life. And then when it's not, you like get more creative on interesting things to do or other ways to enjoy time. And my relationships with all my friends got deeper and more interesting because we actually talk about real stuff. It's not just like drunken nights where you're bonding, but really, you know, you just have a bunch of

drinking buddies. It's a, yeah, it's a more fulfilled, fulfilled existence for, for all I'm, all I'm concerned about. Yeah. One of the things, and I think we'll also talk about this on another episode, that is just so seeped into our culture is, in addition to the social element, there's this feeling of, I have to drink in order to get ahead in my career. And if either people listening are going to immediately connect with that or they're going to be like, that's not true for me. And if that's not true for you, bless you. Great. But like my first corporate job, they had speakeasies in every office. And I was told by one of the VPs that if I wanted to get ahead, I was going to have to drink. The biggest HR violation, like terrible. But I was 22 and I was told like, if you want a future here, this is the culture. And I think whether it's a networking event, whether it's after like

work happy hour, they would throw ragers at the office for like, and, and, you know, open bar in the actual office building. Can we just talk about that? Because I feel like that's so seeped into literally not just I'm going out with friends, but in order to seem accessible or to seem like I'm one of the people in the company culture. Yeah. For one, if anyone out there has struggled with alcohol or is sober and is in a situation like that, let's find you another job. There's so many opportunities out there for you to be at a company that is not just totally twisted and wrapped around those things. 100%. I think things have changed a lot in the last few years. There's like, I think a relatively infamous one about Dropbox. Their

all-hands meeting was like Whiskey Wednesdays or something like that. And it was like unlimited spirit. So to be a part of the biggest, most important meeting of the week or month, however often they were holding those, like it was all around, let's all have whiskey. And can you imagine if you were like literally in your first couple of weeks of sobriety having to go to that? I mean, just really tough. So I think they've since changed this and there's been a really big movement around it. You know, dope is a recovery friendly workplace. It's a designation that they have now in like 27 States, which is amazing. And for us, I mean, we're a remote team now, so it's a little bit different, but there are tons of companies who do have, you know,

real impact with trying to bring this consciousness to the management layers that are inside of a company to know that one in 12 Americans are in active recovery. And I'm sorry, but there's survey bias. So you know, that's even higher because there's some people who just because of the anonymity and the shame around it, like who wouldn't even self-report that they are. So I'm sure the numbers are higher. I spoke to a founder, you know, probably a year ago now who's got about a hundred employees. And he said, yeah, it's really cool what you guys are doing for, you know, addiction recovery with the workplace stuff you're working on. Like, we don't have anybody in recovery in our company.

You know, I really had to hold myself back from laughing because I'm thinking like, there absolutely is. Absolutely. You know, not only is there people in recovery in your company but there's people who have a loved one who like just went into recovery or you know it's it just touches almost every single one of us it's a couple degrees of separation well and because of the shame and the stigma like are they coming to the CEO of this company being like hi I have a drinking problem probably not absolutely and not even that like would this person say oh you suck because you

have a drinking problem, you need to leave. But it's like the ignorance of just not thinking about how could I help bring these conversations to light inside of our company? Like, how can I help foster an environment that vulnerability is okay? And like talking about the not so shiny parts of our life is okay. And you're not going to lose your job if you reach out for help. And, you know, the Recovery Friendly Work workplace is doing a great job trying to bring some of this training up and really show how

you can create an environment that lets your employees bring their full selves to work across mental health, addiction recovery, and suicide prevention as well. I can't emphasize enough how important this is for employers. You're often the last place someone is showing up when they're really in a dark place, when they're really struggling. Work may be the last place they're going. So it's this responsibility I think all employers should feel to try to be there for the humans that are supporting your business. Because we're all humans at the end of the day. We can't just be robots and put the home stuff at home and put our little happy faces on when we come in the office and pretend like everything's fine. So yeah, more inclusive practices in the workplace around alcohol is really a timely conversation.

Well, and the office might be actively contributing to your, you know, your need to drink or even if the alcohol is provided. And I also, at least for me, and I imagine statistics would back this up, it also felt like a gendered thing, right? It was like men in leadership, many of whom were either alcoholics or like borderline alcoholics who were telling their 22-year-old female employee, like, you need to drink to get ahead. And that felt like the weirdest power dynamic that 100 hundred percent has to be factored in with, with like the gender power of that. I mean, it's just an extra layer on it all, you know, like the comments we put up with and all the little things like from an older generation and,

and talking down to you, if you need to get up or in a founder position, for example, this happens with the investor landscape. What do we put up with hearing and letting them say to us or feeling pressured in one way or another? And certainly, your example of a 22-year-old new in a job feeling vulnerable and she needs to do what it takes to fit in and get ahead. And yeah, it can lead to unfortunate situations that I wish we all didn't have to put up with. Yeah. If we aren't someone who's going through recovery, but maybe if we know someone in recovery, whether that's family or friends, it's really hard to know how to best show up for them and be supportive, but also set boundaries and not enable them to keep drinking or to keep using.

What advice do you have for family and friends of women who are either experiencing active addiction or are in recovery yeah it's so hard for the the loved ones outside you know the normies as we call it like if you don't struggle it can be so confusing how this is like taking hold of this individual that you love and like you as the outsider can see this beautiful path for them and all their potential and everything that's possible and their addiction and active addiction will not end until they realize they need to, you know, the person really has to come to that decision themselves for it to stick. Sometimes the, you know, forced intervention, like you've got to go to rehab and like they make

it happen. It often doesn't work in the end because that person didn't choose it. So it really is difficult. I always say to like anyone who's got a loved one that's struggling for me, continuing to hear from my Nana, for example, the letters saying that, you know, she was worried about me and how much she loved me and that there was another path. Like those were like little chips away. I kind of look at myself like I was this big iceberg. And every little letter from her was a little chip away. And every morning, I woke up apologizing for something I absolutely did not remember doing. Little chips away, just feeling this shame and annoyance. Again, this problem that's just, I wish it would just go away. But all the support and kind love I was getting from family members who were able to express like,

I'm worried about you. I love you. I hope you can see a better path in the future. Like they all mattered and they all counted. Not one led me to get sober, but like all of them together did make an impact. So, you know, if you have someone who's struggling, just continuing the drumbeat for as long as it's healthy for you to let them know that you love them and you support them and you hope that they can get on a better path. Of course, you know, there's cases where this can be damaging. And like you mentioned, enabling individuals to continue to use and if they're harming you or stealing from you or, you know, all the detriments that can come to you for remaining close, like being able to set your boundaries with love and

let them know that you're putting these things in place because you love them and you need them to get help, but you're not going to be able to be a part of this anymore. That's the best advice I can give. And otherwise, just connecting with groups like Al-Anon and other resources that tons of this online to be able to find communities you can connect with and find the support you need as an individual because your healing matters too. It's painful to be the to find communities you can connect with and find the support you need as an individual because like your healing matters too. It's painful to be the one on the other side as well. We'll link up in the show notes. I want to touch on it briefly. I think, again, the cultural zeitgeist is changing, thank goodness. But you mentioned even at the top

of this episode, you said a disease like called addiction. I think, again, part of the stigma is it's like, well, just stop drinking or just stop doing this. But at a certain point, it does become a disease like anything else where you are no longer in control of it. So can we talk briefly about that, about the kind of change in how we're viewing addiction? For sure. I mean, I think the way to look at this is absolutely like a disease. If you had cancer, you know, like I think my dad said something like this, if my daughter had cancer, I'm not going to be ashamed of her pushing her out and pushing her out the door. We'd want to find her help. It's not an excuse. It's not an excuse to say my actions didn't matter and they didn't really hurt people because, oh, I just have this disease.

But it is a disease and it really does need, you know, a full swath of support and decision-making to be able to change it and stop. And in some case, you know, medical intervention and rehabilitation are needed to get back on your feet and get out of it. So it's a big shift from just saying, toughen up, like get over it. You know, why can't you just figure it out? Why can't you just find the balance? But, you know, I and many others are testaments to if you have the disease of addiction, you cannot find a balance. The substance will always find you. You can't balance yourself out. One was too many and 10 drinks was never enough. So it was never going to work out for me in the long run. I think another thing that's helped to shed some light, there are some studies that have gone on around just the genetic passing of addiction. This is for real. If it's in your family, you've got a

higher propensity for it. And once you recognize this about yourself, because being addicted to one thing, I have an addictive personality. So you have to watch yourself as you go through life. What else are you using to fill that space? Like, where are you deciding to put that energy that you've now, you know, relieved from pouring into alcohol or whatever, you know, insert substance here? Like, what are you going to pour it into now? And for me, that was the company, you know, finding this awesome idea. I had to go build a business and let that be like my new addiction in a healthy way and just keep tabs on it that it's not taking over and that I'm still taking care of myself. And yeah, but it's like a, it's a recognition

that this is something I'll always be like, I'll always be an addict, like always an addictive personality. And I just have to watch what's my new drug of choice, you know, and is it healthy? And is it in line with the life I want to lead? Kristen, our podcast producer and I were talking before you jumped on about the response that happens when you get offered a drink and you go, oh, no, thank you. And I'm thinking like, oh, are you pregnant? That's a lot of the conversation for women when they refuse alcohol. What are other things that you should never say to somebody when they refuse a drink or they just say no i'm okay or i would like something else like what are the things we should never say to somebody i know and i feel like for again the normies it's it's honestly it's just out of not

knowing that it like that something could be offensive that you're genuinely shocked like wait you're not gonna drink and for some it's the case that like they're a little upset because they wanted you to be drinking with them. You know, a lot of people don't want to drink alone. And so it's like, you know, are you going to be a buzzkill for the party or something if you're not drinking? So, you know, for the individual who's not drinking, the best advice is like, try to always have yourself handled. Like when I'm going to a party, I always bring something really fun that I'm looking forward to drinking a new cool na beer i mean corona has na now there's like all sources yeah it's amazing so i think heineken's got an idea so you've got like all the choices in the world to like plan in advance and bring something so you're not stuck at the party going did you

have anything other than the the cocktail that everyone's having or like do you have anything other than beer and then they're like grabbing their kids yeah well and also if you're throwing a party yeah yeah if you're throwing a party like provide non-alcoholic options amen to that besides water totally like that that's the mecca and then until we get there handle yourself and make sure you come prepared yeah sure that's what we hope it gets to though is like you know at parties functions conferences all of that being again more inclusive about options you're providing so it's not like fun drinks and all these alcohol water is the na choice it's just such a you know and then for anyone who asks oh did you want to drink or or do you want to try a sip of mine i get offered you know sips of drinks to someone's

having something interesting yeah when they say no like what if it could just be okay? You know, what if it could just be no worry? Oh, all good. Cool. Like, or did you want something else? You know, like, is there something else I could get you? I just wish it wasn't even a question. Like it's, it's slowly getting there as I get older. It really is way more there. I rarely get asked any questions about why I'm not drinking if I'm out somewhere. Of course, most people now like that me know I'm sober, but even when I meet new people, I don't really even get a question around it as much now. So I'm not sure if it's just an age thing or if really the conversation around it has changed a little bit. But yeah, asking if you're pregnant or why, it's going to happen. So for the individual who's not drinking, just prepare yourself with what you're going to

say. I literally would walk through this in the beginning. I used to say I wasn't drinking because I was training for a marathon. That was my excuse in the beginning before I got really comfortable with it. You're like you are. I'm training for the marathon of living life because it's fucking hard. Literally. I'm on life's marathon. That's so true. I'm on life's marathon. Yeah. So yeah, that was my excuse for a while was like I'm training for a marathon then it got to be like right what is this marathon I'm running them all the time I'm so athletic it's an iron man just yeah I'm on it but then as I got more confident and I think it's in your own decision right like I've made this choice I know it's going to be

forever but for anyone that hears it at like, two months or three months, are they going to think I'm just gonna, you know, flip and go back. So I felt like this buffer time, I wanted to really like, solidify it and have enough time passed where I could say, you know, I think around six months, I started saying, you know, I actually used to have a problem with alcohol, but I stopped drinking and it's freaking awesome. So I actually just don't drink anymore. Yeah. And that's it. And then people be like, that's so cool. Like my aunt is also sober or my brother's also sober or, or still struggling. And like, again, the vulnerability of like being able to share your own truth. Like you can't imagine how many people on the other side, like want to talk about their story too, or their connection with it. They

don't get to like, they don't get to get it off their chest that their dad was an alcoholic and you know, what their life's been like because of that. And you get a chance to like help people express that. And to, at the same time, feel confident in sharing your own story and like owning your own truth and knowing that it's not shameful. It's fucking awesome. Like when I first started dope, people would be like, are you going to tell investors that you're sober? You know, aren't you worried they're going to think you're like loose cannon or something? And I literally was like, I can't wait to tell them I'm sober. Being sober is like a superpower. It's what connected me to you immediately when I saw you pitch. Yeah. When I saw you pitch,

I was like, oh, okay. Founder willing to be vulnerable, willing to talk about the hard shit. Like, that's what you want from a CEO. Like, that's what you want. You don't want somebody who's, like, not willing to talk about all of the messy things about being alive, you know? For sure. And that decision to get sober is like you saw something wasn't working in your life and you changed it. Which is business owner 101. You pivoted.

Totally. Yeah. Like it's just the model for anyone in life to be able to say like, hey, and I continue to do this. I continue to evaluate what is or isn't working in my life right now. And if something's not working anymore, change it. Like we're always evolving. It doesn't just stop. Like getting sober, let me have this kind of clarity over that to say, you know, I want to take control and like keep evaluating my life. And you just, you're like a, like shedding these layers of an onion over time of like, this one just doesn't, I just don't need this anymore. I don't need this anymore. And making sure you're staying true to yourself. So sobriety was that first step that kind of like, like cleared my glasses off so I could see and focus on what I, what I want to be. I didn't expect to ask you this question, but you touched on something that I think a lot of people struggle with, which is like, do I bring my authentic self to work? Like, do I bring my full self to work? And part of me is like, hell yes. to work and part of me is like hell yes and the other part of me is like no like there's like depends on yourself right well and it's also it's like

your work situation like I've I have talked to a lot of my friends of color who are like I cannot bring my full self to work because I will there will be inherent bias that happens and if I want that promotion if I want to succeed, I am afraid of getting stereotyped in a way that I don't want. So I can't bring my full self to work. And I totally get that. So for you, what was that decision? And are there times where you're like, actually, this doesn't feel like a safe place to bring my full self? Well, thanks for sharing that other lens of it. It's so important to remember that we don't all have the same privileges to be ourselves and to bring our full selves to work well with vulnerability in particular

bernie brown has this great quote where she's like vulnerability is a great thing but it must be earned like vulnerability has to be earned through a sense of mutual trust and like mutual giving so like you know if you're willing to go out and be vulnerable it's because you feel safe and you feel like somebody has earned that vulnerability there's plenty of like vulnerability is like my number one like mission and value for me as tori dunlap but there are plenty of times where i will show up in a situation i'm like oh you do not deserve my phone you have not earned that vulnerability because there's not this mutual sense of trust so that's the lens that i've taken is that like i will be vulnerable unless

you give me a reason not to be in which case, like if you have not earned it, I am not willing to show up as vulnerable for you. Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting. I guess I think over these last six years, you know, since starting dope and then late 2017 was the first time I had shared, you know, that I was sober from Dope's platform. And as soon as that happened and like those responses we got from people, like we had, it was a grand opening of our little kiosk on Market Street and it was my two-year sober birthday. So we said like, if you say it's dope to be sober at checkout, you'll get 20% off in honor of the founder's sober birthday. And this is what kicked off Dope for Hope and everything because people responding

to that, it just blew me away. Like what an impact I could have by choosing to be vulnerable. You know, someone was like DMing saying, I'm two weeks sober. Do you know of any good meetings in the city? It's so cool to hear that you're sober. Someone was 13 years sober and said he had never told anyone and that it was awesome to see me sharing this publicly. And I just was totally like, I felt like everything, my whole ego and self and all the concerns and worries just melted away because it was like, I want to reach more people like this to let them know that they're not alone. They're not the only ones going through versions of what I've gone through and that they should feel safe and comfortable sharing it too. So I really, it's funny to think about this. I've never like pondered this question if I, if I'm not vulnerable for anyone, but I really, I'm not,

I'm really like, I'm really like this with anyone that I meet. And I actually find it like a nice challenge. If someone does seem like they have a bit of a wall up, they do seem a little bit like rough around the edges and maybe it feels like I shouldn't trust them. I do share and I do open up. And then sure enough, they're like, they needed to talk more than anybody else about what was really on them. I don't know. I found that it really is this incredible tool to like break the walls of the world where everyone can seem so tough and rough and harsh. But like, if you just soften up and talk about what's really going on in your life, you just can't imagine what the person on the other side

needed to talk about too. Yeah. And I want to be clear. I share that same mission. Like it's, it's the same thing for me. I've just also learned it's really about boundaries. Like I was like so vulnerable with everybody and then got to the point where I was like, this level of vulnerability sometimes doesn't make sense in our relationship. Like, you know, because that trust hasn't been built in that same way. So I think it's really just figuring out like, what do I want to keep private between me and somebody else or just, you know, for me or with this community versus like giving out vulnerability like it was free.

And I was like, ooh, we are going to continue to be vulnerable, but yeah, with boundaries. Yeah, you got to do what feels right for you. I obviously love your work. I love dope. I've talked about it already. Like, it's such a great product. And of course, it's with this mission of supporting recovery. How do you find that you balance because it's a for-profit business with this mission? It's something that I'm trying to figure out and struggling with of like, I have to make money at the end of the day. I have to pay my people. I have to like make sure that I have a roof over my head.

We have business objectives. We have investors to answer to. And at the same time, I have this big life goal or this like mission driving me, the purpose of this work. How do you find the balance between those two things? Yeah, it's really interesting. This has come a few times through the journey of the business where I've had conversations with other business owners who, you know, just just can't imagine it. They're like, there's just not a penny to spare. You know, we just won't be able to. And I think when you talk about the monetary side of it, this part in particular

is really, it is just that firm decision that like, we're going to do it. And once that's off, like it's literally when we look at our unit economics, like the 1% to SheRecovers foundation is like, it's the line item. And they're like, we know that this is coming off from everyone. Just like we look at discounts, just like we look at returns, cost to acquire a customer, shipping costs, like the 1% donation is just like, it's in there. So there's... Baked in. Baked in. Oh, I love a good pun. I'm so upset. I missed it. Okay. I should have caught that one. Okay. No, I was talking over you and that's on me. I was just really excited.

I love it. It is baked in. Yeah, but you do. You have to bake it in. And then even for our company, which we've navigated so dramatically from being brick and mortar to moving fully e-commerce to launching in more than a thousand grocery store doors last year. The business has transitioned so many times. And the last three years, we have not been profitable. We've lost a significant amount of money each year. But would I even for a moment consider that the donations or our work on dope for hope all of the you know community efforts we do around that should go away hell fucking no because i think the community that we've built the revenue that we do have and opportunities we are getting are all because of the mission like it's like it is the core and you just can't sacrifice that so

we have a really great product you it's super hard to kill core and you just can't sacrifice that. So we have a really great product. It's super hard to kill a good product. I love someone told me this a long time ago. They're like, if you have a really good product, it's hard to kill it. Like it's going to be hard to kill the business. So I know like every time I'm just like, I know we're going to find a way. And now we're on track to break even this year. And like, we'll just continue climbing from here. So I think that you just have to consider it like a absolute non-negotiable. Like if it's really what you believe in and what you want to make true, everything else will find a way. It's kind of like, look at your personal

budgeting. Like Tori, this is totally your world, but like, look at your personal budgeting of like, if I put these things aside for it, like someone goes, oh, there's no way I could afford this like car I want to be able to buy. Well, if you chunk away this amount of money every month and you save for it and you do the right things, invest following all of Tori's advice, then you'll be able to get your Lamborghini. So that's the, right? Is that what I get at the end? Lambo? Okay. Yeah. It's the Lamborghini always, every time. Lambo, ice cream Lambo. And I think it's the other side of it too, because, you know, it's predominantly women listening to the show. And the other thing I hear from so many people who want to be business owners who, or who are

business owners, is this like, oh, I need to give all of my profits because I can't make money. And we've talked many times on the show about how that is like misogyny in play of like, believing you don't deserve money is the patriarchy telling you that you shouldn't pursue it. And like good on all those women for like being overflowing in profits. Can we just say that's like a basic. Oh, totally. It's altruism, right? But I have, I have a whole section in my book of like weaponized altruism, but the truth is, it's like, you can't make that 1% donation if you don't have anything coming in and you can't run this business if you're not taking care of yourself and your team

first. So there is the other flip side of that balance too. And this is all the time something that I struggle with of like, okay, I want to do so much good in the world. And also in order to do good in the world, the company has to make money. So it's finding that balance of not giving up everything, but also not being like Scrooge McDuck greedy where I'm not giving back in any way. And that's honestly like, don't be Scrooge. It's like, you've got to have a why. Entrepreneurship is super hard. It's so freaking

hard. You're literally in tears like sometimes every other day, sometimes it waits a couple of months. Like it's ebbs and flows, but like by hour you're sure that it's gonna die and crash and burn and then absolutely it's the best thing that's ever happened so it's just crazy Kelsey I think you and I have talked about that's literally my experience and I want to echo that like literally I'll have an hour where I'm like I'm gonna burn this to the ground like I don't care it's awful and then the next hour I'm like you know yeah we'll get a lovely message from somebody and I'm like, okay, it's okay. We're doing it. And then the next hour I'm like, nope, it is, it is the most rollercoaster. I sometimes imagine if I didn't have the, why? Like I have a folder of all these emails from, from customers, the comments that have

really moved me, like that kind of thing. You save that. And like on the hard days, you open that shit up and you're like, we got keep going so i feel like there's so many deeper reasons like to do good with your business to be a good human and do this for more than just you you know find your why and like having that at your the core of your business is just it makes the hard days like you can keep going my last question for you we have a lot of women in our community who are either sober curious, alcohol free, like myself, they're starting to think more intentionally about their consumption of alcohol. What encouragement do you have for women who are on this path? For one, just yay for being on the path because starting to even acknowledge or consider it

up until, you know, fully being on this journey of sobriety, like good on you. And I'm so happy to be on the same journey with you. There's just so much joy ahead. So if you're struggling and trying to figure out if this is right for you, stick with it and find a community that you can engage with. I'll plug SheRecovers here because this is our foundation that we donate to for dope, but genuinely the most amazing group of women. It's like 300,000 women in a Facebook community, something like 100,000 are in the private one. Unbelievable vulnerability. You want to talk about openness and being able to say what's going on, you know, ask a question, talk about what's

on your mind. Like 80 women are going to respond to you with like so much loving kindness. They do like multiple meetings a day. And SheRecovers has this whole thing that, you know, you talked about not being in recovery earlier. They have this saying that everyone's in recovery from something. So they touch, you know, mental health, life challenges, all sorts of things. And then, of course, substance use disorder as well. But everybody's in recovery from something. We've all gone through some difficulty in our life, some transformational moment or

period, and we're in a new path. And being in recovery is just trying to be a more enlightened version of yourself. And that's something we should all strive to do. And it's better when we're together. So finding a community you can connect with that gets you and has been on this road, and you just wouldn't believe how eye-opening it is to hear other stories and go, oh shit, I'm not the only one. Like, me too, you know? This is kind of the old days, you know, reason for the 12-step programs was like sitting around and hearing stories of other people that have walked your path. In my early sobriety hearing one, it was actually a gentleman in

the room who had gotten sober at my same age. I was 24 and he had gotten sober at 24. And he was at the time like 35 or something and saying how incredible it is that I just got on this journey and how his wife today has only ever known the sober version of him, how he gets to be the most present dad to his children. And like, here I am, fast forward, I'm 32 this year and I'm that, I'm that. I followed those steps. I followed that example I got to hear and that community that told me like, it's not just me. I'm not the only one.

And that's my advice. Keep going. I love that. Kelsey, where can people find more about you? Dope.com. Got my shirt on. Check out all sorts of stuff about dope at dope.com. It's doe with a P on the end.

I know we've just been saying it through this, but it's felt a little crazy. So d-o-u-g-h-p.com. We're also at dope on Instagram. If you join like our text list, we do our Mental Health Monday text, literally asking like one high and one low from your last week. And someone from our team literally responds to you and has a conversation about what's going on. So yeah, just connect with us and get involved in the community. Personally, you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active there. Like you, Tori, not quite on your level, but I'm working on it. So please do connect with me there. I'm Kelsey Moreta. It's M-O-R-E-I-R-A. Tori will like this. It's more IRA. There you go. I do. Roth IRA. I got you. I got you. I'm picking up on you right now. I love a good Roth IRA. It's the only way I get anyone to spell my last name. So now you won't forget. I love it. And truly, you and I have been friends for got you. I'm picking on you right now. I love a good Roth IRA. It's the only way I got anyone to spell my last name. So

now you won't forget. I love it. And truly, you and I have been friends for a while. I'm not just saying this. It is the best product, the best mission. One of the best things that you can do as a financial feminist is take your money and support the kind of organizations you want to see. So I have given Dope to friends and family for birthdays. We've done corporate gifts gifts with dope. I have bought my fair share of it for myself. Like it is the kind of company I want to see more of in the world. So we'll link everything down in the show notes. So thank you for being here.

Thank you for your vulnerability. Go team. Have a dope day. Thank you. Yay. Thank you as always to Kelsey for joining us. You can find out all of the information about how to connect with her and how to get some cookie dough through her company, Dope, in the show notes. I am also proud to say that I am an angel investor in Dope. It was one of the companies that I chose to put some of my own money into support because I love not only Kelsey, but I love the cookie dough. I love the product and I love the mission of the donation to recovery and just her focus on mental health is so powerful and important. So if you'd like to support me,

like to support another women founder, buy yourself some cookie dough. I would, for a long time there, I think a couple of years ago, I was buying dope as a present for like anybody who had a birthday, anybody who like had a milestone in their lives. So it makes a really, really lovely gift as well. Thank you for being here, Financial Feminists. Y'all know what to do. Follow, subscribe, share your episode with the friends. If you're listening on Spotify, tell us what you thought of it below. We so appreciate you listening and engaging with the show. And I hope you have a great rest of your day and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen

Fields, marketing and administration by Karina Patel, Sophia Cohen, Khalil Dumas, Elizabeth McCumber, Beth Bowen, Amanda LeFue, Masha Bakhmakieva, Kaylin Sprinkle, Samaya Mullakario, and Harvey Carlson. Research by Arielle Johnson, audio engineering by Austin Fields, promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com.