Financial Feminist - 123. What You Really Need to Know as a Woman Business Owner with Michelle Razavi

Episode Date: October 31, 2023

What if our journey toward success wasn't about shrinking ourselves but embracing pleasure, self-love, and confidence? In this episode, host Tori Dunlap engages in a powerful conversation with Michelle Razavi, founder, and CEO of Elavi, known for its gut-healthy nut butters and dessert spreads. They dive into topics of entrepreneurship, self-love, and the power of redefining the relationship with food and business. Michelle shares her insights on fostering a business built on trust and integrity and resisting the pressures of diet culture. They also explore the importance of nurturing women's well-being and encouraging them to show up as their full, authentic selves in all areas of life. Save 10% on your Elavi order with code FF10: https://elavi.co/discount/FF10 Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://herfirst100k.com/start-here-financial-feminist-podcast  Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

70% of purchasing decisions are made by women. Women want to buy from women because it's not only empowering to them, but it's empowering to their daughters, to their sisters. They want to see more women out there in C-level positions, growing companies, because it builds a better ecosystem for the next generation of women, for leadership, for business, financial equity. And so when I explain that to investors, I'm like, our consumers are mostly women and women want to buy from women. Us as business owners who are women understand our consumers. So it's this kind of circular symbiotic relationship. Hi, financial feminists. I'm so excited to see you. If this is your first time,

welcome to the show. My name is Tori. I host the show, obviously. I am also a money expert. I am a millionaire, a New York Times bestselling author, and I fight the patriarchy by making you rich. We teach you everything you need to know about money, but also through a feminist intersectional lens, talking about how money affects women differently and what we can do to use money as a tool of protest and power and change. So welcome. And if you're an oldie but a goodie, you knew all that. Welcome back to the show. All right. Today, we have an incredible story and an incredible guest. Michelle is not only a friend of mine, but also a co-founder of a business that I have angel invested in.

And angel investing is a whole other episode that we can talk about. But basically, speaking of using money in terms of power and influence, now that I do have some money and have built a business, I want to be able to support other business owners, especially women, women-focused businesses. And we tell more about how we got connected in this episode. But we were just so excited to have her on today to tell us more about how we got connected in this episode, but we were just so excited to have her on today to tell us more about her story, her product, as well as how we connected and really how to stand out as a woman entrepreneur and how you can play the game as much as possible in order to start changing the game.

Michelle started a lobby in her kitchen, creating high performance collagen protein bars to fuel her 16 hour days juggling working at Sep Corporate and teaching fitness classes at Equinox. She needed quick, nourishing, clean fuel, but struggled to find protein snacks that were also gut-friendly. They don't usually go hand-in-hand. And she worked with her best friend and fellow fitness trainer, Nikki, to bootstrap a gut-friendly snack company to solve their needs, weathering a pandemic, trademark lawsuits, supply chain delays, and zero marketing budget in their first year. Their resilience to push through a competitive category

with limited resources comes from Michelle's relentless passion to bring transparency, integrity, and better representation into the packaged food industry. That passion turned into the thriving food brand, Elavi,

now available in over 300 locations, including the Equinox Studios, where they teach, Lifetime Fitness, now available in over 300 locations, including the Equinox Studios where they teach, Lifetime Fitness, Google, Lululemon, Experiential Cafes, Central Market, Tech Offices, and Amazon. Michelle and I drove into her why behind building her company and what she learned as a first-time entrepreneur about how to show up in this very male-dominated space, as well as how to get funding. We get a lot of questions about that from you all of, I want to be a business owner. I'm going to have to get funding. We get a lot of questions about that from you all of, I want to be a business owner. I'm going to have to seek funding, venture capital. How do I do that?

Michelle talks about how to stand out in those interviews. We also get into how Michelle overcame her fear of being cringy to source funding for her business and what she's learned building her first business from the ground up all during a global pandemic. This is a great episode if you've ever wanted to start a business or interested in learning more about either finding angel investors or becoming an angel investor, how to advocate for yourself as an entrepreneur, or if you just love listening to stories of business owners and what they go through to build their companies. I will also say there's a reason I invested in her and Nikki. They're incredible, passionate, so incredibly driven and ambitious women.

And those are my favorite type of people to be around. But also their product's fucking good. We'll link it down below. They have these nut butters that are like, oh my God, they taste like Nutella, but they're not as sugary as Nutella. It's just like cashew butter. And then there's this one that's bright blue because of spirulina. And it just looks great on top of smoothies or smoothie bowls or toast. And it's so yummy. And that was one of the biggest reasons I invested is I found it really good. And I was like, I want to keep eating this. And she's just great. The product's great. And I'm just really excited for you to hear this episode. So without further ado, let's get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. Crypto is like finance, but different.

It doesn't care when you invest, trade, or save. Do it on weekends, or at 5 a.m., or on Christmas Day, at 5 a.m. Crypto is finance for everyone, everywhere, all the time. Kraken, see what crypto can be. Not investment advice. Crypto trading involves risk of loss. Kraken's registration details at kraken.com slash legal slash ca dash pru dash disclaimer. Michelle, I'm so excited to have you. We found in our research that one of the things you wanted

to do for work was work for the CIA. Can we talk about that? Yeah. So fun fact, I speak three languages. I studied political science and international relations and Spanish at UCLA. And I was growing myself for a career in foreign service because I saw a combination of seeing it in the movies and in TV. It looked very fun and glamorous. And I was good at foreign relations. It looked exciting for me. It looked exciting for me. And I went to UCLA with all intention of joining the CIA. I went to all the workshops and was preparing for that. I never touched alcohol or drugs or anything in college because I knew they went through crazy drug tests and lie detector tests. I was so, so straight edge. And I applied two times, got rejected. And at that point, I was like, what am I going to do with my life? I took a diet and nutrition course in college. And it was one of those organic moments where I was naturally so good at it, obsessed with it, set the curve for the class. And it was a science

class and I was studying political science, not even real science. And I knew at that moment, wow, I really resonate with nutrition and health. And I really helped heal my gut health issues by taking that class. I learned about food intolerances and elimination diets and dairy and gluten and how it's so inflammatory for a lot of people, including myself. And so that was really what kicked off my gut healing health journey and really closed the chapter on working for the CIA because I realized my passion, my true calling was in health and wellness. Was entrepreneurship part of that plan for you? Like, was that ever a dream of like, yes, I'm going to be an entrepreneur someday? Or did that come to you naturally as you started investigating more about what your interests were?

Yeah. So I, you're going to laugh when you hear this. I loved money as a kid. I loved saving money. I love, I had my little safe box with like a little code. We love that. And, and every year for Persian new year, I would like hold onto my money. And I just like, I love to be like a banker. So I loved money and I loved the idea of like financial wealth. And I grew up with a household where my dad was both physically, financially, and emotionally abusive to my mom. So I really saw that in early age. And I was like, that's not going to be me. And it was a very formative experience because my mom told me at an early age, don't let a man control your finances. Don't be like me.

mom told me at an early age, don't let a man control your finances. Don't be like me. And at that point, I knew I wanted to be very financially wealthy and independent, but I didn't know how I was going to get there. And entrepreneurship really became something that was tangible when I was living and working in San Francisco, where you see startups everywhere, people are always chasing ideas and starting new things that energy was really coming to life there. But I didn't necessarily start out with, I'm going to like start my own businesses more. So I want to be very wealthy and have a lot of independence. Can you walk us through the journey of nine to five, more traditional employment to now exploring, you know, okay, I'm going to

potentially be a business owner. What did that transition look like for you? And how are you thinking about it even now? Oh, I love this question. So nine to five has its pros and cons, right? So you essentially like turn off at five, and that's it. You can explore their hobbies. You can have more of a social life. But for me personally, I felt like I had untapped potential. I felt like there was a ceiling on me. I felt like I wasn't making as much money as I could have. And to get to that mindset for entrepreneurship, I really had to do a lot of internal work and listen to podcasts, read books, really find expanders that were not in my physical realm, but really pursue that digitally. And that's what I love about this day and age is that you can find inspiration and mentors without even ever interacting with them just by watching and observing and self-teaching yourself.

So I made it a point to really get my brain neurologically ready for entrepreneurship because I knew I didn't have expanders in my physical realm. But that being said, you kind of don't know until you are in it what to expect. And I think to a certain point, the naivete that I had about getting into entrepreneurship was a good thing because knowing what I know now, I don't know if I would do it. I for sure would just because I love the freedom, the flexibility, but the amount of work and sacrifice I think is not communicated. And I think it's very glamorized, especially if you don't have a safety net or that network that a lot of entrepreneurs do when they start out.

And so preparing for that was really having honest conversations with myself, making sure that I had my own savings saved up because you don't know if you're going to sink or swim. You don't know how long it's going to take to start seeing that next possible check because you go from stability and a little bit more security to completely in the wild west. But I think for me, completely in the wild west. But I think for me, the anchor point was, look, any employer can fire you in California at will. So job security is pretty much non-existent. So when I had that conversation with myself, I was like, look, I trust myself more and I'm going to bet on myself more than an employee will bet on me. And I think that was always my come to Jesus moment of like, look, there's no such thing as real security. Anybody could fire me. So I might as well put myself in the driver's seat and choose my own destiny because I know I'm going to bet on myself and I know I'm going to do well.

So that was really the shift that helped me get to entrepreneurship. I think for me, the interesting thing about entrepreneurship, to your point, it's the only thing where you're like, I will willingly work for double the time if it means I don't have to work for somebody else. Right. And what is it like? I will work 80 hours for myself so that I don't have to report to somebody else for 40 hours. And there's like like you said, I think, you know, even with myself, like the first couple of years of entrepreneurship, I loved it. And now I'm starting to feel the feeling where I'm like, actually a nine to five job kind of seems interesting. Nine to five job is yeah. Yeah. Because there is that level, like your brain never turns off. And you and I have talked about this a little bit privately, but just the demands on your time when you're responsible for it are both like

the best thing ever because you get to drive this at the pace you want, doing what you want with it and betting on yourself to your point. And that's how I felt where I was like, oh, I can be doing more. I know I'm capable of more. Let me see what I can do. Like it tests you being an entrepreneur. I was just like, what are you capable of? But then on the flip side of that, of course, you're also like, oh God, all I do is eat, sleep and breathe this business. Right. And it becomes your identity. And the lines are very blurred of kind of like, when do you take a break and you have to be very disciplined about it. And I'm still struggling with that. But yeah, I would say with entrepreneurship, I think I would always tell myself in the back of

my head is like, look, this is your one time in your life where you don't have kids, you're not married, you don't have a mortgage. You could always go back to working a corporate job. You have the skills. So I think relieving myself of that pressure of like, this is your MBA on crack, view it as an opportunity of just learning, just be curious and just learn. And I think that has released me from that anxiety of we all have our paths. There's no right or wrong way. But for this moment in time, this is mine and I'm going to ride it to the fullest. Yep. It was very similar for me too, where I was just like, okay, I have no commitments other than to myself, which is a privileged spot to be in. But I was like, okay, it's time. If I'm not going to do it now, I'm

probably not going to do it. So let's see let's see what we can make. Right. You, you started your business in January of 2020. Woof. Uh, but you also pivoted very quickly and you used clubhouse. If anybody remembers clubhouse, which was such a hot moment during that time, RIP clubhouse, but that's how you found your first investor. If somebody is listening, this is really what I want to dive into of like, if I do have a business, like I self-funded HFK, we don't have outside investment, but there's plenty of businesses. And I have friends who are business owners who have had to seek funding or needed, wanted to seek funding. What does that look like for you? And especially what does that look like for you

starting a business basically right before a global pandemic? Yeah, brutal. I would not recommend it. At that time, so we launched January 2020. We had no idea. The world looked totally different. And we did pivot a lot, just like you said. But I think it's having those honest conversations with yourself.

So my co-founder and I, we knew we had to bootstrap from the beginning because we were first-time founders. We didn't have a track record for building and scaling a business. We had corporate backgrounds, but the industry we were also in, consumer product goods, is also very competitive, very capital intensive. So we self-invested our own personal capital to get the company up and running. And we did that both out of necessity, but also out of a little bit of pride and ego where we want to prove this out first before we take any money from anyone. And that really was such an invaluable experience because as incredibly difficult as it was, I was on unemployment insurance, full disclosure. I got furloughed from multiple jobs that I was working at in health and fitness because gyms closed. All these other contractor positions, they were cutting hours. So I had to go on unemployment insurance and I had to get a real, real hard lesson in terms of managing my money. And so my co-founder Nikki was working full-time and we were both self-funding every single dollar in, we were looking at it with a sharp eye.

And I think that mindset is now serving us as we're in this very difficult fundraising environment that we still have the DNA of capital efficiency, looking at every single dollar as if it's our own. And that is how to run and scale a business profitably, right? You want to make sure you're looking at every single dollar in and out. And so while that was extremely difficult and a revisiting of my scarcity mindset that I'm still working through, it made us stronger, more resilient founders and helped us build our case of, okay, we did a lot with very little. Here's the case study of what we will do with your capital as if I'm speaking to an investor. And so that made fundraising a little bit more compelling that we were able to put our skin in the game with our personal capital, show that we can do something with the little capital that we had. And that makes fundraising a little bit more compelling to

the investor on the other side that, okay, they know how to take risks. They know how to spend, they know how to be efficient and they can take a bet and do well. So it was a moment that was difficult and challenging, but I always say growth happens in discomfort. And so that's what happened for us. If I am in the shoes of a listener thinking, okay, I want to start this business or I have this business and I want to start seeking funding. What are some tips or tricks or things that you realized in your journey to start getting investors to start growing the company? Explain it to me like I'm five in terms of how do I seek funding and how do I go about actually getting somebody to listen to me? Absolutely. So number one, be very clear of where that capital is going to go. Cause that's

the number one question investors are going to ask is why do you need this capital? And so I would just, you don't have to build out a full-blown business plan, but give a clear indication of, is this going for inventory? Is this going for hiring? Is this going for development of an app or whatever your business model is? So be very clear of where that capital is going. How much do you actually need? And then from there, talk about why you or your co-founder, your team are the best equipped to do this role, right? Then that's the next question of why you, then the third is the market of why now, why does this product or service need to exist? And what's the total addressable market or TAM? What's the opportunity for that investor.

You really have to hone in your storytelling skills. And I think that's the big thing is like, how can you distill information in a compelling way? Because you don't want to overwhelm anybody on the other side when you're pitching to them to invest, but you also want to make it very clear. So once you kind of get those three things across the line, then you start preparing your documents, what have you. So I would, depending on like what

stage you're fundraising with, get really familiar with the different financing instruments. So if you're early stage, you're most likely going to do a safe note. That's a simple agreement for future equity that you can download off the Y Combinator website, read through it, go through Carta, understand what pre-money, post-money, what valuation caps mean. I didn't know any of this. And I remember I felt so embarrassed. I was on a call and an investor was like, what's your valuation cap? And I had no idea what to say. And it was just one of those moments where I'm like, I need to go. And before I have any conversations, teach myself as much as I can about essentially a new language when it comes to fundraising. And there I have any conversations, teach myself as much as I can about essentially a new

language when it comes to fundraising. And there's so many resources online. There's YouTube channels, there's podcasts, there's so many great ways to learn. I think it's so great to educate yourself. And so really kind of understand how are you going to fundraise? How much are you going to fundraise? You know, setting that all up. Then there's a deck that you can build. Again, you can build this on Canva. It doesn't have to be super complex. And your deck, I'm just going to give full disclosure, you're going to iterate multiple times. And when you think about fundraising, I wouldn't go to your first choice investor right off the bat. You have to get some reps in. You want to practice

with your inner circle, with friends that you trust. Maybe you have a friend that works in private equity or finance area, somewhere adjacent that can look at your deck, give some feedback. So you want to kind of get that experience, that practice, and that's okay. You have to start somewhere. And then from there, I would really try to follow, maybe interact with some other early stage founders and kind of watch their story. I think that's such a great expansive way to understand what did they do to kind of get to their point. And think that's such a great expansive way to understand what did they do to kind of get to their point. And lastly, for kind of preparing for fundraising is just having a really honest conversation with yourself and your loved ones of what is this going to look like for

you, right? You might have to take a salary hit or go without a salary. Do you have money saved up in your bank to go without one and really making sure you're financially okay to pursue entrepreneurship. Typically what I recommend is have your full-time job, treat your startup as like a side hustle, get it to a point where it could be generating revenue without losing the financial security of a job. And then once it starts hitting a point where you're like, I need to focus, that's when you make the transition. I did a little bit differently. I pulled the rug underneath myself and I was like, you swim, but there's no right or wrong path. And I think knowing yourself is ultimately the key thing before you enter this because it is an emotional and physical rollercoaster to go through fundraising. That was super helpful. Thank you.

One of the things that you mentioned that I think about a lot as someone who is educating people about investing and personal finance is that there is this other language. And I think you said that right. It feels so complicated. And it is largely, my not so conspiracy conspiracy theory is that it's that way to keep the boys club, keep the like cisgender straight white men boys club and you are not only a woman a woman of color like what are these conversations like with you and with Nikki where you're going in to a room that's stereotypically going to be or statistically going to be a bunch of men a bunch of white men in suits how do you navigate that I think the way I've approached it is, you know, they have their skill sets. And I realized

like, it's just pure numbers. It's not like they're out to get us. I think that that mindset helps, but they won't understand your consumer the way you do. They won't understand your product like you do. They won't understand your company like you do. And I think growing that confidence is so key because I've had investors try to make me question myself, you know, question my company, question my worth, question my credibility. And I think building that self-confidence where I've had investors be like, you know, your product doesn't make sense. I'm like, well, actually like I have validation that it does. And that confidence you build as you continue building your company. But, you know, the number one thing I say is look, 70% of purchasing decisions are made by women and not many women are business owners.

Women want to buy from women because it's not only empowering to them, but it's empowering to their daughters, to their sisters. They want to see more women out there in C-level positions, growing companies, because it builds a better ecosystem for the next generation of women, for leadership, for business, financial equity. And so when I explain that to investors, I'm like, our consumers are mostly women and women want to buy from women. Us as business owners who are women understand our consumers. So it's this kind of circular symbiotic relationship. Once I walk them through it, the statistics don't lie. And when I explain that, that does like really make sense and resonate and land.

And I think humanizing ourselves too helps make the conversations easier because there are very different worlds, right? They won't understand us and we can't ever understand their experience. And I think trying to find points of unification or trying to find areas where we can align on or it's like, look, health and wellness, it's an issue that affects everyone. And once I kind of explain it in a very logical way, that really lands. I will say I do have to tap into my masculine energy a lot in these calls. I would say Nikki's more of like the softer feminine energy. And I have to really be so hyper-conscious of making sure I don't say likes, ums. I don't have an

uptalk in my voice. When I say something, I say it deliberately and concisely. I make eye contact. So there's so much body language stuff that I am self-coaching myself to do and really, really practicing conciseness. And I coach both Nikki and I to really focus on this because when you over-talk, that tends to show that you're not confident or that you have to over-explain. So I'm trying to work more on answering concisely on my investor calls because that shows confidence. So just all these different things that go into these meetings that you wouldn't think about. And it comes with time. And I just want to say, this has been a byproduct where I'm talking right now is for three years of putting in the reps and

the time and failing and falling flat on my face and not being taken seriously. And so you have to start somewhere. And that's what I want the message to be is you have to start somewhere. If I can do it, anyone can do it. I know that sounds cheesy, but right now is the best time because there's so many resources out there that the Boys Club did hold back that were done in like, you know, meetings or, you know, different areas that were closed off to women. But now we have the internet. And so I think that democratizes things a little bit, which is so exciting. It sounds like you've gotten comfortable playing the game. And I often think about this because there's plenty of times that I play the game strategically.

And then I'm trying to change once I'm in the game. And once I have some power in the game, then I try to change it. But sometimes that feels weird to me because I'm like, I shouldn't have to change the way I speak for you to respect me more. I shouldn't have to change the way I dress or the way I present myself for you to take me more seriously. Does that ever feel weird for you? That's such a great question. I would say no, because I think big picture. And for me, I think big picture. And for me, I just view it as a different side to me, not changing myself, but just this kind of alter ego that I can tap into. And it's fun to tap into that. You know, in addition to running a company, I'm also a fitness instructor. I also teach yoga. And you would not guess taking my yoga class that I'm a CEO of a startup who has like a very alpha personality.

Like when I teach a yoga class, my voice is very grounded and slow and people are like, wow, you're so calming. I'm like, you do not know me outside of this room. And so I just, I feel like that's such a cool thing about being a human is that you can have different sides to you, right? We're not just one dimensional. And so I just find who I am or kind of the way I represent myself in these investor calls. It's just another dimension because it's a cool thing to celebrate

that we can be multifaceted as women. I would love to talk to you about the way we connected and also get it from your perspective. I am an angel investor in your incredible company. And one of the things that truly I tell entrepreneurs or want to be entrepreneurs is it's like the squeaky wheel gets the grease and like you have to be your own advocate because like no one else is going to do it for you. And I think especially in this like modern era of like very cringe and like, oh, you're trying like that's kind of lame. Like I think it's so ridiculous to think that way. No one's going to do it but you. Exactly. I know when I was a finalist and

when I received the Forbes 30 under 30 nomination, it was really interesting because a lot of the pushback when those, you know, come out every year is, yeah, they're kind of bullshit and bogus. But a lot of people are like, oh, you have to like submit yourself to that. And that's really lame. And I'm like, you have to submit yourself for a Grammy, for an Emmy, for an Oscar. You have to submit yourself for any award that you want to win someday. Very few awards just pick you from, you know, whoever's available. So let's talk about this comfortability or this, like, we have to get comfortable with this feeling of putting ourselves out there all of the time. And I would love to talk about how we met. Yeah. So I had, I think someone just randomly pinged me saying, because they knew I was

fundraising, which first of all, when you're fundraising, tell everyone, don't be shy about it. Don't be quiet about it. It's kind of like when you're, let's say like looking for a partner, be like, Hey, I'm dating. Do you know anyone? It's same thing. It's like, Hey, I'm fundraising. Do you know anyone? Because you never know where that might go. And so I was openly telling anyone from our co-manufacturers to our 3PLs to anybody who would listen to me. I'm like, Hey, I'm fundraising. Do you know anyone who's investing? And so had our previous 3PL, 3PL is our third party logistics provider, randomly Slack me your LinkedIn post saying, Hey, she angel invests in women owned brands. I think you should give it a shot.

And so I saw your post and there was hundreds of other people pitching you. And I was like, you know, so many other people pitch, like she doesn't know me. I don't have a direct, you know, connection to her. Why not? Like I have nothing to lose. And so I commented in like all caps. I made sure I thoughtfully read your post. And I think that's really key too, is whenever you're pitching, you know, do a little bit

of research on that person. What are they about? What are they, you know, saying that they focus on? Because I hear so many investors who are like, I have men pitch me and I say exclusively, I invest in women and I don't know where they come from. So if men are doing that, you can too. But yeah, I did as much research as I could on you very quickly. And I was like, okay, I got to stand out. So I all caps was like, hey, I perfectly fit what you're looking for. Woman owned, woman of color, minority. I'm building

this really incredible gut friendly snack company. And I would love to have you on board and tell you more. And I think I include a couple key like exciting metrics just to stand out. And you commented, you know, send me more info, like let's set up a call. And I did. And just a couple things like one, I could have not commented and been intimidated. But I did because I was like, let's set up a call. And I did. And just a couple things, like one, I could have not commented and been intimidated. But I did because I was like, shoot your shot. Two, I could have, you know, not prioritize emailing you, I could have chickened out gotten scared, like, oh, she'll never respond. But I did, again, shoot your shot. And then, you know, we set up a call, and we like hit it off. And I think that's the fact that there's so many points where I could have just

dropped off. I think that's really telling you, you really have to like follow up and be on top of things and make time and do it in an authentic way. Right. And I'd love to hear like your thought process of like kind of how you were perceiving me, but you know, a hundred percent, I agree with you. It's like, no one's going to advocate for you other than yourself. And if someone views me cringe for championing my company, then we have a lot of work to do. But for me, I'm just like, this is my job. I need to fundraise for my company. And I need to put it out there. And it's a great mission that we're doing. So I'm proud to do that. So it's one of those things where fortunately, it worked out and then I had to like follow up

because you were coming out with your book tour. I was very hard to get ahold of for a while. And I deeply apologize for that. It was literally, the post was like Adam Newman, infamous from WeWork, had just raised all of this money for this new company. And I think he is a bogus scam artist. And so I went on LinkedIn and I was just like, hi, I have built this business now to the point where I have some money and I want to do something about it. And I want to support either women owned or like women focused businesses that, you know, are making a difference. And you commented on that post, but yeah, it was, it was not the most opportune timing because looking back on it now, I probably should have waited, but it, you know, it worked out great. But yeah, I was, I was literally about to release the book and I was

just like, I'm so sorry. I'll get back to you next week. And then it would be like three weeks later and you would follow up, which was great, which is exactly what you should do. The squeaky wheel, right? There was this period of time where I was really difficult to get a hold of because we were launching the book. And you very kindly and patiently, but we were like, hi, I'm still here. Hello.

It's a reminder. And it worked. It was great. No, you were super sweet. And yeah yeah that thought obviously does cross my mind and my follow-ups of like do they find me annoying like but you know at a certain point I'm like well hopefully they respect it and that's like you know finding the right investor right and that like they appreciate tenacity and persistence because you know hey

she's going to be that persistent with retailers with other investors with you know, hey, she's going to be that persistent with retailers, with other investors, with other parts of her business. So that carries over and hopefully you appreciate that and you did, thankfully. I do the same thing. I always joke with getting on Good Morning America. The Today Show is the big one that I wanted for a really long time. And I just quietly, I knocked on people's doors until they let me in. And that's that's, that's what you have to do. And that's what, you know, kind of what I was getting to before, which was, you know, great. Thank you. It's like, not only do you need to pitch yourself, but you need to be the person who is following up politely and not in a harassing way, but just like, hi, I'm still here. I'm still cooking. Here are the new updates. Like that's what you have to do as an entrepreneur, especially when talking with, you know, busy people trying to get on,

you know, a TV show or some sort of press outlet. Like you have to do that. You have to follow up over and over and over again. And I'm sorry you did with me. No. And look, people are busy and that's okay. And as soon as you don't internalize that as like, they hate you. And the best piece of advice I got from someone is like when you're pitching retailers is until someone says, no, stop reaching out to me, you keep following up. And obviously you'll pick a reasonable cadence.

You're not really overwhelming someone, but follow-ups are okay. And I just want to shout you out separately. There are so many women who say, I support women. I want to invest in women. You actually put your money where your mouth is. And I just want to truly wholeheartedly appreciate you for doing that because there are so many women investors that want to, maybe they can't, or maybe they have LPs that are breathing down their neck and they have strict guidelines that

they have to follow. So not blaming those women particularly, but just the overall situation, it's so hard to get women investors on your cap table. And I just, I really appreciate that you saw an issue, which is very true that men are messing up in their first, you know, companies, second companies, and they're still getting funding. Whereas like women, you know, make a mistake because they're human in their first companies and then just get like torn apart in the media. And I so appreciate you making that message of like, I want to invest in women. I'm tired of seeing, you know, men given opportunities, and I want to put my money where their mouth is. So I just want to bow down, but generally,

like jokingly, but also generally, because it sets the example that even like an angel check is so meaningful. And it gives business owners like me confidence and my peers confidence that there are women out there who will bet on us. Well, I appreciate that. But I mean, that's our jobs. It's like, if we have climbed the mountain, it is our job to throw a rope down, to lend a hand, to get other women up the mountain too. I wanted to highlight you asked from like the investor angle. And again, I don't have, I'm not a venture capitalist. I don't have, you know, the millions of dollars to invest. I wrote, you know, a pretty small check. But what I really saw was that persistence. Truly, like you said, like people will see the persistence and be like, cool, I love your product. It's really about you. It's about you and Nikki, right? What I saw really like your product's great, but it was about you and it was about Nikki and how you approach the situation and how, you know, you kept responding. Yeah. Your tenacity of that and how professional you were. And like, you know, we all watch Shark Tank, like always on Shark Tank. They're like, it has to be a good product, but you're really

investing in the founder. And so when I, you know, go through my seasons of, you know, I'm still a little baby angel investor and learning a lot on that side. And what I look for is really who is someone who is not going to stop pursuing what they want until, who do I connect with in a way that, you know, I'm going to be able to help. And then also, you know, what are the founders like and how are they going to showcase their product and showcase their business? of an investor, what you look for. And I'm hoping it would be expansive for other entrepreneurs too, as they think about fundraising, what goes into that decision-making process from just evaluating the founder. Yeah. You have mentioned before, and I have mentioned before many times on this show, that being a founder, being an entrepreneur, especially a woman entrepreneur can feel extremely lonely and extremely isolating. And I think that's something a lot of people in our community share when they start small businesses is just this

feeling of isolation and that like, nobody will fully get it or fully understand what the challenges are and what the responsibilities are. What has that been like? And how have you found ways to connect and like reintegrate yourself? Gosh, it's such a good question. Something I'm still struggling with. I would say... Me too. Me too, man. I would say conversations like this, podcasts like this, you don't have to directly connect with someone to feel less alone. I would listen to, and I still do listen to a lot of entrepreneurship podcasts and read books

about like memoirs from entrepreneurs to really get into the brain and hear their insecurities, their vulnerabilities, their doubts, their fears, their struggles, because it helps you feel less alone and it helps validate your experience. So I would say just,

you know, trying to digest other experiences really, really helps center you and really help you understand that you're not alone and that this is an experience that's very unique, but it's not just isolated. And so I would say that's one thing that I do. And I am fortunate to have a co-founder to ride the wave with me. But it's still isolating. Your romantic relationships, your parents, your family, they don't understand it.

I went to this local concert with my boyfriend last night. He forced me to go. And I was literally sitting in the corner messaging influencers and checking my emails. And I just can't turn off. My partner is also a civilian and often does not understand even like he's been he's so great about it but yeah there's times where he's like Tori I need you to get off the phone and I'm like I just I need to respond to this one thing and he's like okay but then you need to get off the phone and I'm like

I know I know it's good for me I'll get get off the phone. Exactly. Exactly. So I guess to your point, yeah, like surrounding yourself with people who love you and you care about your mental and physical health to sometimes like force you to take those breaks. And finding hobbies outside has also helped me really navigate that aloneness. So as I mentioned, I teach fitness classes and sometimes investors like you still teach and like it is so vital for my mental health because, and it gives me a source of creativity, right? Having a side hobby has been so great because I get to connect with people in a setting where they don't know me as the founder or the CEO of a company. I get to be another version of me that can really connect with people and build community. So, you know So wherever you can find community, even outside of entrepreneurship, that can be sometimes good to just take a break mentally.

And that space allows you to think creatively in other ways that you could take back into your company. And lastly, having other founders that are in similar stages, I think is helpful, but also stages above you and below you as well. So that you can both have like a peer dynamic where you can commiserate and share experiences. You can have someone that you can ask for advice or help, and then ideally pay it forward. And you can mentor, you know, some earlier stage entrepreneurs that you can feel that you're kind of importing your wisdom. And so I think that's a great way to also think about building your community is like, how can you serve? How can you expand? And how can you kind of build around?

I don't have a co-founder. I have people that I can rely on in our team. We have a C-suite to, you know, bounce ideas off of and to make strategic decisions. But at the end of the day, the general vision of Her First 100K is, you know, something that I dictate as, you know, CEO and founder. Talk to me about running a business with somebody else. What does that look like? How are you having these conversations when you disagree what happens? That's a world that in many ways, I'm glad I'm not a part of. And speaking of isolation, in many ways, I wish sometimes I had somebody else to directly shoulder the burden of

entrepreneurship with me. Totally. Gosh. And it's always grass is greener because I don't know what it's like to be a solo founder. And there's this glamorization of like, okay, I get to like call the shots. There's no one I have to like check in with. This gets to be truly an extension of me. I don't have to think about this other person. But yeah, to your point, it can be scary. If you want to take a vacation, there's not someone who can break you for intents and purposes. Or if you get sick, I can understand. And I still feel this even with a co-founder. If I get sick or if something happens, what's going to happen to the company? That persistent anxiety. But having a co-founder is such a unique experience as well. I would say try to find a co-founder that is complimentary to your

skill cells from like a business standpoint. So my co-founder, she's really, really adept at finance and accounting and operations, logistics, spreadsheets. Great. She loves that. I don't. And I love marketing and content and partnerships and sales. And I love like talking to people and networking. So that's what I focus on. We're very, very different people. So naturally, different people are going to clash. But I would say, if you're exploring having a co-founder, just curious how to really know you have a good dynamic is, are your values aligned? And I think that from day one, our value system has been aligned of how we prioritize the company, how we want people to

feel when they engage with our brand and our product. We never want to put anyone down or make anyone feel less than or excluded with our brand and our vision. And so I think that's always been unified. But yeah, it's something we're still figuring out. We both are in therapy. We both have gone through like co-founder, like read different co-founder books to kind of manage this dynamic. Because when you think about it, you're in such a pressure cooker, especially when you've taken any sort of investor money that this expression of like you kick the dog closest to you, if you've ever heard of it, sometimes you just like release your frustration out onto someone. And so it's, you have to be very, very mindful of like how your energy is impacting someone,

how their energy is impacting you. So it's one of the most intimate relationships I've ever been in, in terms of like, we share a bank account, she knows my social security, that level of trust has to be so, so strong. But also the communication has to be also equally strong. And it's something we're continuously working on. And I think, you know, no dynamic is perfect, but as long as you can both commit to a growth mindset and afford direction of prioritizing the company and prioritizing our mental and physical health, prioritizing our relationship, that's the kind of recipe for success. Because candidly, a lot of founder breakups happen. A lot of companies shut down because of the founders, you know, disagreeing because there's ego or inequities or just different aligned visions. And so I think it's really important to have frequent checkpoints. We try to have like conversations frequently, if we, you know, disagree on something, or if one of us triggers the other person, we try to like, come back together and kind of talk it through. And I think it's an evolution for us and probably for other founders. But ideally,

you're building something together and you're celebrating your wins and helping each other through the lows. And it's a very unique dynamic, but I think it makes you stronger. And I think as a business, it de-risks you a little bit too, because you have someone else to not only add their expertise to brains are better than one, but it also emotionally gives you that mental health piece to, to, you know, share some of the things I've always wondered is I run a very online digital company. We have a podcast. We have digital products. We work with brands in an influencer capacity. The only physical product I have is a book, and it's through a major publisher. It's not just my product. On the other hand, you make a physical good that ships that you have to create that is sold in stores. What are the challenges, but also the opportunities of running a directly commerce-based,

create a product kind of business? That's such a good question. So I'm trying to think of how I want to answer it. So it's, it's a blessing and a curse, candidly, because it's a blessing in terms of how cool is it that I can tangibly interact with you and my product, right? That I can gift you this product that you can have an experience around it, that you can taste it, have a, you know, sensory dynamic with with my product. And I think that's can taste it, have a, you know, sensory dynamic with, with my product. And I think that's so cool to create something physical and to curate an experience around it. At the same time, there's so many logistics that go behind it, especially if it's something that's consumable, you have to make sure that it's food safe, make sure that you're following all the regulations, make sure that you're, you know, prioritizing human health above all else. And we don't take that, you know, lightly.

So it's, it's just such a crash course in terms of like understanding logistics, supply chain ingredients, we're seeing, you know, shelf life, it's, it's such a wild thing when you think about and it's been so eye opening about our food system, right, is so many of the products that you see, they use preservatives, they use cheap ingredients because, you know, these larger companies, they need to prioritize profits. They don't care about people that's secondary. And so it's, it's really an eye opening experience of like, what does our food system look like? How does transportation look like? What are industries that you never thought even existed just out there to support like A to B. I would say that it's rewarding, but it's also such a like, I'm not sure if I can swear, but it's such

a mindfuck too, that like you get to, you get to like think of an idea, bring it out into a product, a physical, tangible product, and then think through all the different ways of how can you get it to different hands, you know, And you can pull different levers of digital marketing, retail activations, partnering with influencers, the capital that it takes to source the ingredients. And it's just so many moving pieces all at once. I think sometimes I'm just like, how is my brain able to catch up with all of this? Because we're not just a physical product like selling a store. There's also a digital piece.

We sell on Amazon, we sell online online and we have to fundraise but i think the dynamism of it is also what makes it so exciting and i think the opportunity for innovation is also really cool that you know i'm not beholden to software or a developer or you know technology the innovation is like how to like play with different ingredients and feel like a you know crazy scientist sometimes in a kitchen of pushing boundaries and kind of food and or what we think of food and dessert and things of that sort. It's such a cool experience. But I would say that, especially for food, it's something that you want to be very thoughtful of as well. And really finding your, thoughtful of as well. And really finding your niche in that space is also really critical, I found, is really what makes you stand out, understanding your market, understanding your customers. But yeah, it's such a cool thing where you can have that one-to-one engagement.

And what keeps me going personally is when people write in saying like, I had this, this is so cool. I took it on my vacation or I gave this to my kid and they loved it. They normally don't eat healthy stuff. So it's really cool to be able to build an experience around a product that you created and to see how you can impact so many other people through it.

That was one of the reasons I chose to invest is it's so fucking good, guys. Like it tastes so good. Like it's so good. It's like a Nutella dupe that's like healthier for you and it's a nut butter and then the blue you can drizzle it on toast or on smoothies and it's just so good and then the little travel packs i you know i sent you the picture i was in paris and again my partner would stop eating them he would turn to me and he's like you got any more of those like

nut butter packets i'd be like here you go and And he just like stick the whole thing in his mouth because he's a little Nutella fiend. They're so good. They're so good. I would love to talk briefly. One of, again, the reasons that I really respect what you do and why I chose to invest was that you're in the fitness space and you create this gut healthy, you're in the fitness space and you create, you know, this gut healthy, lower, you know, sugar, more healthy product. And it's would've, it would've been very easy to play into the diet culture, weight loss marketing of a product like that. And you intentionally didn't. And I really fucking loved that. So talk to me about that intentional decision of, yep, we're not going to play into the diet culture shit here in order to sell this thing. I'm so glad you said that. And I really appreciate you saying that because,

look, it could have been very easy to do that. And I see companies making, there's this one company, I won't name them. I'll tell you offline. They made $55 million in four years, Tori, by preying on diet culture, weight loss, making women feel insecure about themselves, promising weight loss, and it makes me sick to my core. And for me and Nikki, we had eating disorders in our early 20s. We had unhealthy relationships with food. Mine started with orthorexia that went to a binge eating disorder that played with anorexia. So having gone through that experience and the evolution of, you know, that fear of food from, will it make me sick to trying to control food, trying to control my life through food. It's not only an isolating experience, but what's crazy is it impacts so many different women in so many different capacities.

I saw my mom had unhealthy body image issues and she would start herself. And it generationally comes down to younger and younger. And so for me, when I was starting this company and when we were very intentional about our branding and our mission, we don't want anyone to ever feel bad about food. And that starts with the messaging, that starts the packaging that starts with everything. And our mission is not to ever make anyone feel bad or restricted or shamed or anything. It's like the whole goal is food should help you feel good, right? Food is something we want you to love. Food is fuel. And I think for me personally, having gone through my relationship with food is fearing it. I really wanted to personally heal my own unhealthy relationship with food and redirect and redefine it. And as a byproduct, I realized that Nikki also had unhealthy relationship with food. And then there's more and more women that also struggle with that.

with that. And so for us, we wanted to, if it meant, you know, not growing as fast, if it meant, you know, not making as much money upfront, you know, we were committed to that because change happens by taking those risks and by standing for something that you truly believe in. And hearing that validation, hearing other, you know, journalists even saying like, I really appreciate how you don't like talk about this or that you don't use this languaging. how you don't like talk about this or that you don't use this languaging. It really validates that women are tired. I think we're tired of being marketed in a way that makes us feel bad about ourselves or that we need to deprive ourselves. And I think women are finally feeling more vocal. And you see this in media as well too, which is so great that, you know, there's a little bit more representation, not completely, but still a little bit more

representation of all different shapes and sizes and what a great thing. And for us, it's really food is, is something we need to consume every single day. It's something that people have different relationships with. And at the end, gut health is really what we chose as our through line, because that was the source of my personal eating disorder was I had so many health issues. I was afraid of food. I didn't know what foods I can trust. So to create a brand around trust and integrity was really important to us. And because we put ourselves in front of the company a lot, we put ourselves in social media, we put ourselves on the website. We couldn't stand behind a brand with integrity if we didn't use copy or marketing or had any messaging that conflicted with our value system. And that's really what we're excited to do and ideally

lead in the space that food is something that nourishes you, that gives you energy, that satisfies you. And that's a great thing to celebrate. Michelle, I just really appreciate everything you just said. Again, I think that one of the reasons I started HFK was I, you know, learned about money from my parents and had this story and then was realizing like, oh, I can do something about this. I can do something about the way we are educated about personal finance and talking about money and systemic oppression and with that and I think a lot of solutions for entrepreneurs come from our own lives or come from our own experiences and our thoughts and feelings of like somebody else has to be feeling this way or

somebody else has to be dealing with these same issues and like how can I work to solve their problem. 1000% and I'm glad you touched on something that I wanted to also talk about is, you know, the diet culture, the, you know, marketing that you see and has been continuing for the past 20, 30, 40 years, it's all focused on shrinking women, on keeping women small, on keeping women, you know, a certain size, feeling like they're less than not good enough. And that messaging translates over to other areas, right? And the business world, in their careers, don't speak up, don't be too loud, don't be too big, don't take up space,

right? And so that's subliminal, but also intentional, I believe. And even with fundraising, right? Even with starting a company, even with just all these microaggressions that women experience, they're all designed, I firmly believe this, of keeping us small. I could not agree more. I'm like emphatically nodding my head over here. My book, like we did a lot of research actually on like the weight loss and diet industry. And my friend Vic Garrick-Brown was on the show before to talk about it.

It's a multi-billion dollar industry that trying to sell you something that is actually unobtainable and to keep you small and to keep you miserable, quite frankly. Like if you go on this diet and you're miserable, you can't show up as your full authentic self in your life. Like I think pleasure, I've talked about this on the show before, but like the word pleasure, that's what I want is I want a pleasurable life. I want a pleasurable, joyful life. And anything that robs me of that joy or pleasure is not worth my time.

And to your point, the not so conspiracy conspiracy theory is it's like that has been perpetuated to make sure that women are miserable and overworked and tired and just that they hate themselves. And I'm not, I don't want that anymore for myself or for any other woman on this planet. I just want, I want a life of like pleasure and any company or brand that is trying to, you know, make me feel small or hate myself. That's not pleasurable. I don't want myself or any other woman feeling like, you know, I have to hate myself in order to do this, in order to get into the body that is deemed perfect or the ideal body. And like, of course, that's bullshit. And it's just like, I want to show up in spaces as my full self and love my life and have a very pleasurable life. And anything that's holding me back from that, I think is just, it's just bullshit. 1000%. Yeah. Cause if you're hungry,

if you're depleted, if you don't have energy, you can't lead, you can't succeed. You can't take up space. You can't do good. And women need to be nourished. Women need to be like confident. Women need to feel empowered because then they can be in their power and they can do good. And they can share that good. Cause I generally believe women are more altruistic and they want to protect the planet. They want to empower other women. They want to make sure our economy is more stable. So it has this huge trickle effect as well. If someone is listening who is either wanting to start a business or who is starting and just feeling like, oh gosh, I'm trying and no one's seeing it. What advice do you have? I would say you have to start somewhere and it's not going to be perfect the first time.

I would say I've pivoted like 20 million times and that's okay, right? You have to fall a little bit and be okay with failing and always contain that growth mindset. And at the end of the day, if you don't quit, you don't fail, right? And so removing that pressure off yourself, I think is so key and nourishing yourself, not only like physically with, with the right things, but also nourishing your mind as well with podcasts like this, with books like yours, with, you know, resources, with community that can uplift you, inspire you, encourage you is so, so critical. It's a journey. And I think that's with anything, right? Instead of seeing it as like a one direction or like a linear kind of path. I think for anyone starting out, who's, you know,

having some issues or kind of struggling and fumbling a little bit, like that's okay. Everybody starts at zero. And I think as soon as you get into that mindset, that helps make it easier. Like whoever you're seeing, you know, it's so successful, they started somewhere. Right. And so my advice is, is to start and to be okay with making mistakes. I almost try to make mistakes because only learning can come from that.

And as long as you have a growth mindset, you're winning. I couldn't agree more. Tell me where folks can find more about you. Get the nut butters. Tell me everything. Yeah. So our website is elavi.co. We're also on Amazon where you can get our new dessert cashew butter jars.

We have packets. We have more stuff launching in the new year. Some big retail launches in the new year. You can connect with us on both Instagram and TikTok at heyelavi. That's a lobby with a V. My personal Instagram is my first and last name at Michelle Rizavi. That's Elavi with a V. My personal Instagram is my first and last name at Michelle Razavi. And yes, Elavi is from the last names of my co-founder and I, if you haven't guessed that already. We're very active on social. So please, please, please reach out, say hello, check out

our products. And thank you so much, Tori, for having me on and just such an incredible conversation. Thank you for being here. for having me on and just such an incredible conversation. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much to Michelle for joining us. You can learn more about her as well as her amazing company and brand, Elavi, linked below in the show notes. You can also go to elavi.co to order some nut butters and to learn more about their company.

Thanks so much for being here, Financial Feminists. We appreciate it as always. And I hope you have a great rest of your week. Okay, bye. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, associate producer Tamisha Grant, marketing and administration by Karina Patel, Thank you. promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com.