Financial Feminist - 126. The Feminist and Financial Ethics of Porn with Maitland Ward

Episode Date: November 28, 2023

One of the most hotly debated topics in the feminist space is sex work –– and many ask the question, “Is porn empowering? Or exploitative?” Our guest on today’s episode of Financial Feminist is Maitland Ward, an award-winning adult film star, actress, model, and cosplay personality. Best known for her role as Rachel McGuire on Boy Meets World, Maitland enjoyed a successful career as a Hollywood actress before making the slow transition into the adult industry. Join us for a spicy discussion about sex, porn, and the misconceptions people have about the industry. Warning - this is definitely NSFW.  Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://financialfeministpodcast.com. Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

and that people are worried like, oh, they shut down porn. Would there be nothing? And he said, no, they'll always be porn. These people in politics and on higher ups, they want to watch it. They just don't want to watch women be successful at it. Hello, financial feminists. Welcome to the sexiest episode of this show that we've ever done. Hi, everybody. My name is Tori. I am a money expert. I am obviously a podcast host. I am a New York Times bestselling author, and I'm here to fight the patriarchy by making you rich. We talk on this show about how money affects women differently and how we can get more money into more women's hands and also all the feminist issues that exist in the world through the lens

of personal finance and money. If you're an oldie but a goodie, you already knew that. Welcome back to the show. Massive content warning off the top here. If you are listening, I mean, hopefully you didn't click on this episode and think like, oh, this would be great. This would be great for a good old family listen. But I just want to be so clear. This is not one to put on the workplace Spotify. This is not one to listen to with your children or your grandma. This is just a massive content warning right off the top. We are talking about sex and pornography today. And if either of those things immediately make you uncomfortable, then I would actually really encourage you to listen

because we have a really interesting, incredibly important conversation today about all of those things with one of the best people in the business to talk to. Maitland Ward is an award-winning adult film star, actress, model, and cosplay personality. Best known for her role as Rachel McGuire on Boy Meets World,

Maitland enjoyed a successful career as a Hollywood actress before making the slow transition into the adult industry. She has been a guest on Good Morning America, Entertainment Tonight, and more. Her writing has appeared on The Daily Beast and Rated X, How Porn Liberated Me from Hollywood is her first book out wherever you get your books. We sat down with Maitland because there is so much misinformation and stigma around porn, and sometimes for good reason. And even in our research, most of the data about porn comes from evangelical or religious organizations, which obviously have their own point of view.

So even like finding accurate statistics from nonpartisan sources was difficult when we were preparing for this episode. Maitland shares about her start in acting on shows like Boy Meets World and The Bold and the Beautiful and how she transitioned into working in adult films by creating her own content first. We discuss how both of our views on the porn industry have evolved and the misconceptions people have about the industry. Maitland also discusses what it's like to create her own content and the empowerment and financial independence it has given her. She's also one of the highest paid actresses in pornography. And again, if just the word porn makes you a little uncomfortable, I totally get it.

We also dive into her relationship with a director who is also a woman and how they have really worked together to create what they believe is really empowering content and also focused on getting money into women's hands they have really worked together to create what they believe is really empowering content and also focused on getting money into women's hands and controlling the narrative. I will also say too, just to spoil it right off the top, I think there's so many misconceptions about what we think the actual shooting of pornography looks like, or that the people who choose to go into the porn industry are somehow not well. And we talk about just how rigorous it is to actually

shoot one of these scenes, the amount of consent that has to be confirmed. She talks more about that process, but it kind of shocked me in a good way of just how much goes into making sure that everybody is comfortable with anything they're doing on set. And so we talk more about that as well. A reminder again, this is a not safe for work episode, but one that is incredibly important for you to listen to that maybe just gives you a different perspective. So without further ado, let's go ahead and get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. they say in like in the valley but i have to say for with my the company i work with and stuff we don't we actually usually shoot out of downtown la or west hollywood so interesting yeah that's

kind of like the older studio kind of thing i mean they still shoot a ton in the valley and stuff but in the old days, that's all they shot. Yeah. Was, was there. I have friends who live in LA and it was always, yeah, yeah. That was the joke. It's like, Oh, that's, that's it's over there. We're so excited to have you on the show. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Most people from my generation and maybe a little older will probably recognize you from Boy Meets World. But you were also on a soap before that. I was. What was your journey into acting? What did that look like? What did your career look like? It was it was really a whirlwind

into acting when I was very young because I was like 16 when I got on the soap and I had a like three year contract on the soap. And it was on the bull and the beautiful by the way uh and I was in high school and I was this innocent flower and I was kind of I wanted to get into acting I loved that part of it I loved um because I was such an innocent flower I guess and I was so like ashamed to be anything but that I wanted to be the good girl and live up to that image all the time I guess acting really had an outlet for me it was like some I could play so many different characters and be so many different you know types of people that I could explore if you know wanting to be or just see like different emotions that came from them and different things that I didn't feel comfortable sharing on my own

but I took an acting class with a casting director that was from the bold and beautiful because I had been a huge soap fan growing up that was like my fantasy outlet I loved all the soap guys and I was I just kind of let myself you know get lost in days of our lives and things like that I grew up watching all my children with my mom yeah so you understand my mom would watch all my children I went to pre-K in the morning. And so I had literally come home. Like I grew up on the, all my children. It's so funny because my mom too, she watched as the world turns and then I kind of like watched days, but we both did. It was, it was a connecting kind of thing.

And I could like have this fantasy. So I saw that there were these, I wanted to get into acting, but I didn't really know how, but I saw these acting workshops that were happening with casting directors and they do that a lot to make extra cash but I had the fantasy back then no but I was the youngest person in the class by far 16 years old and everybody was like you know working actors in their 20s and 30s. And casting director was like, you know, by the end of the workshop and stuff, you should audition for this role coming up because it's for a teenage girl getting a teenage storyline. And I think she was surprised at how well I knew soap opera acting and soap opera cues. It's a very specific form that you, you know, you follow

and everything. So and I was very in tune to that. So she asked me to audition for the show and I did, and it was many auditions. It took a long time, actually several months. And I didn't necessarily think I was going to get the part, but then at the very end, I was brought in for the screen test and, you know, the rest is history. I got on and I was going a couple of days a week to school, my regular high school, and then having a tutor on the set the rest of the time. And it was like, wow, it was like a fairytale dream come true to be on the soap set. And then it was like, it was reality then. Right. Kristen and I both have backgrounds in theater.

I majored in theater. I think Kristen did as well. And she's still an actor as well. Theater. I think Kristen did as well. And she's still an actor as well. And so one of the things that we wanted to highlight that I think a lot of people who are not in the industry don't understand is soap operas are incredibly hard work because of like how quickly you get a script, how quickly you have to learn it and like how fast the shooting process is. So tell me a bit about that. Well, we would shoot like three shows in two days. And it's insane because thinking about when I went to Boy Meets World and stuff, it was like

we shot one a week and it was great. It was, I wouldn't say the easiest because you have to perform and it's a big deal, but the schedule is the easiest, I have to say. Soaps were incredibly hard. I lucked out a bit and everybody wanted to be in my scenes because I was under age when I started it, 16, 17. So I got to get off early because, you know, the age limits from the law. So that part of it, I didn't have to work the 12, 16 hour days at the beginning. But once I turned 18, I had to work all those days. But yeah, it's soaps, you have to learn like 40 pages, like a day. And you get so good at memorizing and just doing things fast. And I really believe that was what trained me for everything else.

And I hate to say that, you know, soaps are a training ground, because they're a real job. And they're, you know, really great actors who were on there. And yeah, so I basically, uh, I was like thrown into this, this world where I got to, you know, learn everything from very, uh, established actors who've been in the show for like 20 years and stuff. And on other shows they've been on for 40 years and things like that. It's like, it's just, I just don't think people give it the respect that they should because it is such it's such a hard job it's a rewarding job it's got a very strong fan base and I know I was part of that fan base and um people are very loyal to you even though after all these years people still come up to me and say well I remember when you were Jessica Forrester on the beautiful. And I look so different. I was such a, I had long blonde hair. I was such an

ingenue. I was everything bad happened to me on that show. Like I, everything I was, my mother had an affair with my boyfriend while I was in a diabetic coma. I was, I tried to get me pregnant by poking holes in the condoms because I had the big money. I had the Forrester fortune. I don't know how I had the Forrester fortune. I was like the niece, but still. And then I found out, though, and I tricked him, and then I pretended I was pregnant, and then he found out, and he raped me and almost set me on fire at a bikini bar.

Oh, my God. Yes, guys. There's a lot. There was a lot. And I'm still like really great friends with that guy. Yeah. I was about to ask with soaps. It's like one of two things.

It's coma. And then it's twin. Yeah. Did you have a twin? No, I didn't have a twin, but the coma was a good one. Actually, coma is great because you just come in and you just lay in the bed and have everybody act all over you. And you're just like, I get to be cozy in this hospital bed all day. There's no lines you have to learn that day.

But my hair almost got caught on fire when I passed out from the diabetic coma because it was at a wedding, of course. It was at a big wedding. And I was feeling faint. And I was near candles and i remember my co-star looking at me and saying oh your hair's on fire i had very long hair with a lot of hairspray on it and he was like patting it out my god thankfully he did get it and it just singed me yeah i was like going to faint and so i was near these candles and it was a very dramatic moment little did we know that there was going to faint. And so I was near these candles. And it was a very dramatic moment. Little did we know that there was going to be a fire safety meeting that needed to happen that

day. Wow. Exactly. I know. But nobody like said anything about it. Nobody wanted to like, you know, recognize I almost died on the set. Right. Acknowledge it. Yeah. Yeah. So you started doing cosplay post Boy Meets World. Was that the transition into working in pornography? Yes, definitely. Cosplay was the transition, but it was such a longer transition than you're thinking just past Boy Meets World. It was like, there was so much time

in between Boy Meets World and when I started really getting involved in my cosplay career and starting doing content and all of that. None of that was available first when I was doing Boy Meets World or right afterwards. And then I did white chicks and stuff. And, but then the roles just really dried up and I was typecast so severely for being on Boy Meets World because it was such a popular show and I was identified, but I wasn't the star of the show, which was a weird thing because it wasn't like I was identified, but I wasn't the star of the show, which was a weird thing, because it wasn't like I was Ben Savage, and everybody knew you as boy. It was like I was

on the show, and I was known, but they didn't quite know what to do with me in Hollywood, and it was frustrating, because they wanted me to remain an image that was what people were comfortable with, and what I was known as on the show, kind of like the girl next door. I was definitely the sexier kind of variety of a Disney character. And a lot of things on the show were very, I won't say overtly sexual, kind of very subtly sexual, that if you look at it now, you definitely pick up on it. But back then it was more of an innocent type of show. But yeah yeah so they wouldn't let me play any roles that were more adult or something that i wanted to do not i'm not even talking pornography or anything i'm just talking about like playing more sexy roles more grown-up roles

more like dramatic roles that was kind of i wanted to do that and i didn't want to just be typecast into just doing sitcom or just doing comedy or lighthearted or anything. I want to do some more dramatic things. But that still just wasn't happening for me. And I eventually I got married. I moved to New York. I kind of needed to get away from it all and really restart my life and think about what I wanted to do with myself because I was so frustrated with Hollywood in general. But I still loved acting and performing and all of that. I really got into writing when I went to New York and erotic

writing. Actually, that's where I really started to explore that side of myself and things that I had suppressed in the past, bringing them up and like exploring them. And I kind of felt like being away from Hollywood and that whole system where I was sort of, I was like being trapped and watched and getting away to New York was a great outlet for me to explore myself. But then I came back from New York and I started to go to school at UCLA for screenwriting. And I really fully with my writing and everything, I thought that's what I was going to do. Maybe I'd be a star in like a film project that I got together or something, or maybe I just sell scripts. I was happy to do. Maybe I'd be a star in like a film project that I got together or something, or maybe I just sell scripts.

I was happy with doing that. I feel like all of my characters kind of that I wrote about in my scripts mirrored me. They were always kind of a little bit sexually frustrated and the world had come against them and they had to battle it back. I see that now. They were all very similar. But around that time, that's when Girl Meets World, the spinoff for Boy Meets World was picked up. And we were all from Boy Meets World,

like thrown back into that whirlwind of the show. And it's funny because back when Boy Meets World was on, we never knew how popular it was. We knew it was a good show and it'd been on a long time and it got good ratings, but we didn't know how much it meant to the audience or how iconic it had been. And we really, I remember just seeing the reaction from like the show coming back and the interest in the cast. Again, I remember we were all really floored by how much it had meant to people and how excited people were to have it back. But it was kind of scary for me because I was thinking, wait, I've worked to kind of get away from this. I've explored my own self. I've said, I want to do something else. And now there's all this attention, but I was found that the attention that was focused back on me, I was

able to do things that I really like to do with it, especially with social media. So that's when I started doing cosplay and it's, I always loved cosplay and I always loved like star Wars and like all of the, um, you know, superhero stuff and fantasy stuff. And I, but I didn't know that there could be a career branch from that. And so when I started, you know, I went to a comic con and I would go and dress up a little bit. And then finally I did a red carpet where a photographer came up to me and said, I have a slave Leia costume from Star Wars for May the 4th be with you. Do you want to do a photo shoot? It's like authentically made. And I was like, yes, I'll do it.

Let's just do it. And I didn't realize how popular it would be because it was like all over the press the next day that I did that. And so then I really catapulted my cosplay career. day that I did that. And so then I, that really catapulted my cosplay career. And also Snapchat was actually the thing that was solidified me in that world. And I remember the first time I went to a Comic-Con and somebody came up to me and said, I really love your work. And I thought, you know, like every other time I'd gone, it's like, Oh, from Boy Meets World or from something from maybe from white chicks, maybe from something I've done. And they're like, I love you on Snapchat. And I knew that was like the first time I said, that's a new world.

Like, he like primarily only knew me from Snapchat. Right. Well, and something that wasn't available to you when you started your career, right? Like social media is a still relatively new thing. Yeah. And, you know, it opens up all of these potential opportunities that you know wasn't available late 90s early 2000s like that wasn't a thing oh yeah we didn't have any connection with the audience and that's the thing too it's that's how we didn't know too how much of

an impact it was making i think today if we would go on you know instagram or tiktok or twitter whatever you would see immediately how much the show impacted people and how younger people loved it and all that. But we didn't, we had the magazines, we had a fan event where people would line up for something, but it was not that total knowledge that these young people were really like feeling that Boy Meets World was a part of their lives. And Feeney was their grandpa and this was their show on Friday night and stuff and how much it meant to them. And social media was responsible. Like once Girl Meets World came back to show us how much it meant and that's it.

And I could have taken the path of saying, well, Girl Meets World is coming back. I'm going to just totally dive into my Boy Meets World past and completely rely on that. Get a couple episodes on Girl Meets World and go back into that. But I was just fighting that and I didn't want to do that. So I really said to myself, you know what, I have this audience, I have new renewed interest. You know, I went on the set of the pilot of Girl Meets World and I had a picture with Bill Daniels, Mr. Feeney, and I put it up on my Instagram and Instagram was like nothing. It was literally it was like 900 people, a thousand people. I don't remember.

But I put it up and like the next day people like Perez Hilton has it on his site, like Feeney and Rachel back together again with this little writing. And then my Instagram like grew overnight. And it was like I really saw the impact of the social media there. And so I was like, wait, I have this audience. I'm going to be my authentic self. I really saw the impact of the social media there. And so I was like, wait, I have this audience. I'm going to be my authentic self. I'm going to do what I want to do. I'm tired of like being told what to do. And people really responded to my cosplay. They responded to my sexy kind of fun setups that I did on the beach. Like I would just do all sorts of crazy things for holidays. Like I celebrated like Star Trek day. I did everything and I dress up

and I'd have fun and, and people really responded to that. And that's how my social media started to snowball. And then Snapchat was the main thing that people were really watching because I could do all sorts of crazy things. I wasn't doing anything pornographic, but you know, it has like a little shadows of my nipple or like little sexual things. And Snapchat would very much allow that in the beginning, they started to clamp down on. So Snapchat was really a free ground for me to, you know, kind of explore and be more sexy or be more suggestive. But yeah, eventually they started taking down my pictures. Yeah. And that's how content came out. That's how i started to get into selling content i

am really intrigued and fascinated by a lot of the conversation that's happening right now with young actors in hollywood how they're being treated and the sexualization that happens to them you experience some of this on boy meets world and you mentioned in your book that your character specifically had the least amount of clothes and uh yes it really stuck out to me and you also you know even mentioned in our conversation so far that like because it was disney it wasn't maybe overtly sexual but it was it was implied sexuality so being in your underclothes you said didn't really bother you but what bothered you was the feeling that the writers were having fun at your expense yeah how has this changed since you moved

into porn and are starting to create your own content well it's funny because in porn i've never in a million years would parade around in my lingerie in front of producers for the company ever and i did that at disney wait hold on i just got to stop you there that is such a significant phrase that you just said significant thing of like in pornography i would not parade around for producers in lingerie no but i i did on boy meets world no that's, that's exactly what happened for the Disney higher-ups. And that's so true. And that would be insane for me.

And people would think, oh, you're just naked in front of having sex with everybody. And there's so much protocol in porn that I don't think people realize. But at Disney, it was more, it was just the culture back then. I don't know how it is right now for the young people. I hope it's better. I don't know how it is right now for the young people. I hope it's better. I hope there's more awareness to it. And I hope that people talking out about the past and about what happened, being sexualized and having problems. And especially like people who had way worse experiences than I did in that department have given voice to that. I don't know completely. I'm sure there's still a lot of issues. But I have to say,

back in those days in the 2000s and everything, it was so much just part of the culture. I thought they were having fun at my expense, but I don't think that anybody set out to think, oh, let's trap her in this room and look at her laundry. It was just what happened. It was just what you could do with actors. And you know what I have to say though, the executive producer from Boy Meets World, Michael Jacobs, we've had some wonderful conversations since my book came out. And we have really come to terms with a lot of things right after. And I really appreciate this, that he called me and we spoke for like an hour and a half and we recognize things back and forth. And I really do believe all

of that stuff with the lingerie and stuff came from higher ups at disney who definitely had a strong hold on you know what was what was happening and what they wanted to see from certain people and certain shows and characters and everything and um i think we've seen that in other people's stories too but But yeah, it was just the mindset back then. It was like girls were sexualized, but then they had to be very virginal at the same time. Like it's, we're seeing it all coming out with the Britney Spears stuff and everything. Like she had to be this virginal queen, sexual person in these, you know, but then she had to hide everything about herself sexually and tell everybody she's a virgin. So that was

very much the, the environment back then. I was just having a conversation with my best friend. Cause yeah, we're recording this. Uh, we literally just found out Britney Spears Dwight two days ago, it terminated a pregnancy that was Justin Timberlake. And that like, I'm assuming when this comes out, we'll have more information about that. But we were literally talking my best friend and I this morning about like how dirty we did famous women in late nineties, early two thousands, just like how horribly we treated them, how the media scrutinized every decision they made, how they pitted women against each other. And like, it didn't seem like anything at the time because it was just, that was, that was normal. Oh, it was

just the, it was just the mindset. It was just normal. And was normal oh it was just the it was just the mindset it was just normal and that's what it was i mean the way that they scrutinized women's weight and how they oh it was off and like these girls do you remember that jessica simpson photo you remember yes and she was like gorgeous shape like she looks great yeah it was curvy and hot it was terrible oh i remember i remember the alicia silverstone stuff i i remember i saw her oh yeah yeah like and i went to the premiere of clueless which was cool it was on the beach and everything for the mtb beach house or whatever and she was like the star rising and everybody was talking about like she's amazing and then like so shortly after the words they were just

ripping her apart for being fat girl and all this stuff. And I don't even understand where all that came from. It was so damaging. And it really, even me as an actress, it was just the feeling of always, you needed to be so skinny. You needed to be so perfect. You needed to be pleasing to everybody. And so even with the whole lingerie thing, and like I talk about in my book, I was at that point, I was so much more consumed with them liking me or thinking that I was sexy because I felt so insecure about like, was I, did I look good enough? Was I, am I cute enough in this lingerie? Are they going to think that I'm fat? Are they going to think that I'm stupid or like not cute or whatever. So that was the mindset going in and that overpowered any

feeling of me feeling uncomfortable or didn't outpower the feeling, but it overpowered the thoughts of me needing to focus on that. Like I needed to focus on pleasing more than how comfortable I was with the whole thing. I was just going to say, it sounds like with your transition to porn, it was like, probably for many years, it was, yeah, how can I placate other people? How can I, how can my body and my, my actions, how I show up, how can that placate or, you know, be the best I can be for somebody else? And now it sounds like, it's like, how do I own what I want my own sexuality, my own body, as opposed to somebody else getting to dictate what is done with it?

power, control, freedom back with my own body and how I want to use it and how it benefits me. I feel like when I was being sexualized or being used on shows for certain reasons or whatever, they were benefiting from everything. And now I get to take control of my brand and my body and my sexuality and stuff and benefit myself by building a business and a name and everything from that. So I think it was so empowering. And I think that's what porn has really given me is my own power back. And I think that people think that going into pornography means that you're losing power. And I, I think that is a huge misconception. Of course, there's certain people that come into and they, especially younger girls might, you know, not know what they're getting into, or they do it for the wrong reasons or whatever, but that happens in acting and modeling and music and all over the place.

But, and I did come into pornography much older with, with, you know, years of experience and, and soul searching and all of that. So I did come in from a different place. But it's amazing to me how many girls and women in porn are so empowered by building their own brands and making their own money. And like you have girls that are, you know, buying houses, getting into real estate, paying off college. Like they just, they don't have student debt because you know, they're, they're making money in this industry that they're able to take control and of their own power and body and sexuality and do this and build these brands. And, you know, maybe you don't do it forever, but you still enjoy it and benefit from it and stuff. And I think that if you are in the right mindset

going into porn, it's so empowering. It really is. And I really felt like even the first time that I, you know, got in, got in lingerie for porn, not parading in front of the producers, no, but doing my own content. I see, I did my own content first when, um, for about a year and a half before I ever did a professional porn scene so that was really in my own hands like I was I was calling all the shots and saying what are we doing next let's start off with you know just nudie pictures you know so what really happened was a snapchat like I said started taking down photos and started you know messing with me and threatening my account and

all this stuff and I really wasn't doing anything terrible back then like I said you could see my nipple through the shirt or you could see the shadow in like a shower or a picture like where I'm covering up the suds or something like that but my fans said hey why don't you start content and I didn't even know what that meant content and back this was back in 2000 beginning of 2018 and it was still relatively new. OnlyFans had not exploded or anything. And I started out on Patreon. Yeah.

But I said, yeah, let me just sell content on Patreon. I guess if anybody's interested, because people were saying you could have freedom with it. You could make money. You could go further with it if you want. And nobody's going to judge you. And at that time, Patreon was a little more open to, they had an adult section. I mean, they still do, but they've clamped down a lot over the years as well. But at that time, the adult like art was it. So I was going to do like playboy-esque type photos and stuff and

cosplay, sexy cosplay photos and videos. So I just said, I'll put it put it up you know I don't know if anybody's going to be interested but like literally overnight by the it was like I was the top creator on adult patreon because it was just insane I had like 3,000 subscribers immediately and then that really set off the entire thing because then I was like wow this I have my own business I can do my own thing I can you know say what I want to do and what I don't want to do. And I tiptoed all the way throughout it. And I kept getting closer and closer to pornography and to like exploring my sexual side and being able to explore it with my fans, like in live time, they were seeing exactly what I was doing, like exploring right as I was doing it. So it was, it was, I feel like it's a very special journey in relationship with them that led me to, I first started doing like girl, girl

shoots and then started like expanding till I eventually did boy, girl stuff with two, uh, porn performers that I found and trusted very much. And I learned so much. And that was, that was over the course of like a year and a half before I did a professional porn film. Maitland, I have so many questions for you. So you mentioned feeling like empowered in pornography. One of the biggest things that I think about with porn is that I would classify a lot of it. And it's very tempting to put the entire industry into the stereotype that it is exploitative and it is violent towards women. And we know that there's a lot of pornography out there that is that way. And that is, you know, extremely degrading.

And like the biggest question I have for you is it's like, is porn feminist? Like, can it be feminist? Because you mentioned like, I feel empowered. And I know that, you know, there's certain content that I do feel like is safe. And that is, you know, exploring sexuality. And that is consensual. And then of course there's pornography out there that maybe isn't even classified as pornography because it is degrading towards women. So yeah, is porn feminist. It's interesting that you bring

that up. And I think there gets a lot of confusion with pornography. What is pornography? Now I, what I'm saying of pornography is professional companies that are hiring, like would be like studios like Warner Brothers or Disney or whatever, who are making professional product. A lot of porn that you're classifying as this is stuff that gets uploaded to Pornhub that is not from a company. Right. It's from two guys making some terrible video with some girl out in the woods or it's some or it's stolen porn or it like, it's most of the stuff that is on Pornhub that you were seeing that is so violent or so degrading is not from a company. It's not from, it's like saying that you, I found this independent movie on some channel that was just vile and disgusting. Or I saw it on the internet, some film that people made and comparing it to like uh you know avatar or

something right i don't know like i'm just putting a movie that does not have a comparison but i was just thinking of a movie too and i also think that the taboos that are so surrounding porn i think people attach themselves to that oh it's degrading it's all this stuff but it it puts taboos on girls where they can't explore sexually outside of the porn business because they are like taboo is like marked on them. And if there was more freedom and more acceptance of girls and women who wanted to explore and men too, and there's just not as much a taboo on the men generally than there is the

women. But if they wanted to explore, you know, how they sexually and like however they wanted and there was more acceptance of that i think a lot more of that terrible porn that is it's right on the border of illegal even like you know uploading it stuff but it's very very sketchy and it's it's it's what people see on Pornhub for free too, for free. You're watching it on there. So a lot of that stuff is just how, whatever people make. And I think the more that that's that degrading porn is elevated.

And I don't mean elevated in the way that people like it. Well, they do like it, but I mean like elevated in the way that it's looked at as like, Oh, this is the porn we must destroy. Yeah. Like it's looking at as like oh this is the porn we must destroy yeah like it's looking at mainstream porn i think um that hurts pornography in general and that also works women to say we're going to get rid of all this porn to help them because it's not helping them to get rid of like all porn like it is helping them to get rid of like bad porn and to have to have verified

accounts on these things and to have to right like the porn community was very up in arms. Like there wasn't enough verification for Pornhub originally when they had all those problems and stuff because they were just letting anybody upload stuff. Right. And we always wanted to have our verified accounts where we put our stuff up or the studios like put their stuff up where it's verified product where you have to follow the rules it's like i think people don't realize how many rules go into professional porn set i'm sure some of these terrible movies that you're seeing don't have any of that they're not making you test all the time let's talk about that because i'm intrigued by that and i have done my own research to know a bit about that but like if you know you are and i

imagine it's an insult to you all who you know take this work very seriously to get lumped in with all of the people who are creating extremely violent degrading i wouldn't even classify it as porn it's just abuse like so talk to me about what does happen on a set? What is required in terms of consent testing protocol? Like, what does that look like? Well, we have to test every two weeks when you're working steadily. So you have to test your whole full panel, blood, urine, swabs up the butt, like everything, every two weeks. And it's funny, before like a porn scene, you have to go and you have to record yourself holding your identification, two IDs. They have to be verified and you have to sign paperwork and consent and say

that you're not under the influence of anything. Nobody's forcing you to be here. Nobody like you were doing this of your own consent and your own free will. And you say all of these things on camera with a newspaper thing with the date on it, with all this stuff. Yeah yeah it takes paperwork takes about an hour for you to like fill out everything and um you have to they have to show you signing it on camera and this is before every shoot this is before every single shoot yeah wow every single shoot and then when you go on set you have to to give your no's, which are basically your consent, like what you don't like contract person and I can, they would stop to see me

immediately if somebody like purposely went against somebody's no list. Right. Is that a industry wide thing or is that just Vixen? Yeah. For the bigger, for the big companies. I mean, Vixen is very careful about all that, but for the, for the major companies, everybody has to do the paperwork. Everybody has to consent and do all that. Have a conversation. Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah yeah definitely and that's like a big deal and now we're even putting all our nose on video as well thing so we have it ahead of time and then yeah and if you want to stop it in time during the scene you you know nobody's gonna ask you any questions about that but yeah so there's just very much protocol it's not like people think they come onto a set and it's just like this wild thing with

orgies and drugs. Oh God. And if there's drugs or anything, that's like a huge, not like people like are ripped from the set. If they're under any influence that's affecting anything, like, you know, that's like a huge no. And I think people think, oh, you know, they're, everybody's got STDs Everybody's right. Drugged. Everybody's it's like it's so much further from the truth. I mean, I remember doing love scenes in it's been so long, but in like soaps and like past that, you know, whatever films or whatever. And I feel like I got no direction. I got no conversation. I just was like, go. We're starting to get intimacy coordinators on set, but we're only just starting to understand

that that might be a good thing to have. Yeah, just, I know. So I haven't experienced that on a mainstream set for intimacy coaches, but it's just, there's been that for such a long time in porn just because of the nature of the business and everything. But I just think laying it out all ahead of time is so, so important.

And I always feel like actors in mainstream, at least from my experience and from hearing about people's experiences and just being on, you know, in the world of soaps where they were doing a lot of love scenes, even more than me, but right. People get so nervous.

Like mainstream actors are so nervous. And I actually had an actor who i won't say his name but good point because he says you know they asked like why would actors and he was mainly talking about guys why would they not want to do porn and people think oh because it's taboo and he's like no because they're too embarrassed to get naked he's like he's like that's the truth if they had big dicks like the guys in porn they'd be swinging them out there every year and i said yeah that is that's very true so that yeah the hollywood actors are i don't know they get so weird about sex scenes everybody gets like quiet and nervous and giggly and it's right i don't know we take it more seriously it's just

the job you know and porn yeah and i think that i don't know anybody else in any other industry who is you know testing every two weeks to make sure even people who are like casually dating who's out here you know like testing every two weeks i know i actually oh my god i heard of a girl who said she was dangerous. Cause I got, I got an STD test and like three months later she wanted to get another one. And she was like, God, it's just so much. And I'm like, you waited three months. Like I'm not here every 14 days, girl. I know what that seems like. So long. Yeah. But you were talking about like also is porn feminist and i think

that's a question that's what makes it feminist though i think anything with consent on the women's side of something she enjoys i mean like i do scenes where he pulls my hair and he's choking me or like in a you know but i enjoy that and it's a consensual scene if somebody is being taken against their will that is totally different but and then I do scenes where I pull the guy's hair and I'm like beating on him so I don't know I I play a mistress a lot of the times where I'm like so diabolical and it's a lot of fun but I go both ways so I think I think anything where it's like fun and it's consensual and you agree to it ahead of time and you like it and, and you've agreed on the setup, that's an empowering thing. Because think about in the world, how much, how much we don't get to agree to and how much,

and sexually, how many women are like told to do things or forced to do things and stuff. But to be able to say, listen, I like my hair pull, do it like this and do it like, you know, like in this way and, you know, fuck me this way. And I'm, you know, this is great. So I feel like that is really empowering. One of my questions then, like, okay, so there's this, you know, consent discussion between you and any other performers on set is like a director also part of that consent because i think again there is like this stereotype of girls in front of this like sleazy director smoking a cigarette who's like do this you know is the director or anybody else who might be calling shots on set also part of that conversation oh yeah absolutely they're standing there with us and it's funny that you

say that because my primary director who who is one director, four times came across. So it's there's a lot of women in porn and people don't realize how many women are are very successful directing and producing in porn. And I wanted to ask you about your relationship with her because that has to feel different. Yeah, Even the chillest, most, you know, consent focused man, it has to feel different to have a woman directing you. And I know that you in many ways have become her muse and work together really well with her. So like, how does that feel different? Or how is a set different with a woman directing? It definitely adds to a little comfortability factor, of course, is there that there's a woman who knows like, and she's also was a great course it is for me, but I'm seeing like younger girls who are on the set and stuff.

And they, they look to a woman like her to aspire to her and to say, listen, she's creating stuff. She's empowered. She's, she's successful. And that's why it's so frustrating to hear that old story about, oh, the guy with the cigarette you know directing the orgies handing out the drugs and it's like it couldn't be further from the truth like you were talking about like soaps so much dialogue so many pages i mean i had a three-page monologue from kate in one like three solid pages that i had to memorize and it was like that's where i felt like soaps had trained me and i feel honestly i feel like the soap world is so much like the porn world

it's like the same except different players there it's this little world off of hollywood who's you know looked down upon by right not taking it seriously not taking it but has like more fans many times than a lot of these mainstream ventures and stuff. And the personalities are very similar too. And we all know each other and it's just, it's interesting. But yeah, I feel like it's a very strong thing to have a female director, a strong female director on set and to really, but you know what? I think women can get even dirtier and more diabolical.

And I think they can really delve into what, you know, gets in a man's psyche too, the men watching. And also it's really cool too, when there's a feminine element of the director in the film, I think it really comes across that way because I have so many like couples come to me. And I had one couple at one of my book signings. It was amazing.

She said she had, um, she didn't like porn. He liked to watch porn and he liked it. He wanted to be part of their relationship or part of their foreplay or whatever. Yeah. Not their relationship,

but the, yeah, their foreplay. And she didn't like it at all. And he says, well, why don't you watch this movie? One of my movies,

I think muse, I was muse. The movie that I did that, uh, one of them with caden and she was like wow this has like a full story and it's interesting and it's female empowering and it's like and then it's hot and she said i like added so much to their marriage because she could find this porn outlet that she enjoyed and she liked watching and she liked the story

and she liked being her mind fucked before fucked. Like it's not just going to it. You're, you're in this mental thing first. And I think that's even sexier. And I think women really bring that to the table so much. And so, uh,

yeah, I think it's just a different kind of a multi dimensional porn. And I think women are very responsible when they're directing for bringing all of those elements to it. And I think we really understand that it's not just the old thing of just point and shoot them having sex. Like it's, you need all of the elements of sight, sound, taste, what, you know, the feeling of all of that to really have this full experience. And, and yeah, and Caden is the front runner of all this but there are any other female directors who are really like have been in the game and have done amazing work

and also who are coming up younger directors and I'm directing a project now so it's like and I've directed scenes and stuff but I'm directing a fuller project and it's just it's really it's inspiring and I and I do believe they allow like they're think about the women directors in hollywood how few there are for films and yet right you can like make our films here and win awards and create the products we want to i mean in hollywood would never let me create a serious role where i'd have such you know lengthy acting role with the kind of stuff that i wanted to do that was provocative that that was dark in TVs, whatever I wanted to do. They wouldn't let me do that.

But I get to be able to do that in porn and offer it to an audience that, listen, it's much greater than what people who are watching independent films are. And people love it. And I have such a loyal fan base because of it. So it's just a great marriage of the worlds. And I always say like i don't think people should think of porn and mainstream as separate it's because porn is mainstream it's not it's not this hidden thing in the dark and i think younger generations definitely know that like people in their 20s will come up and say i just love porn i love these people and

they'll feel comfortable with what people in their 50s might be like, oh my God, what? What is porn? It's so scary. So I think that thing is shifting. I mean, I think you've been, since you started doing pornography, pretty dominant in the industry in terms of winning awards and in terms of your success and your rates are some of the highest in the industry. I want to talk, like, this is like one of two financial questions, which is like, how do you learn to negotiate and ask for what you're worth, especially in an industry that has so much stigma? And like, we're talking about two very stigmatized things, money and sex, right? Like, yeah. So how, how did that work for you? Right. Well well I came into it from a different way

just the my history like with boy meets world and mainstream my mainstream career and everything was going to put me on a higher pay scale no matter what and then when I came in to you know my first film that I did with Caden Cross that just blew up all over the internet and it's and it blew up the sites and everything that they were showing it. That put me like I immediately got signed to a contract. And so that was that. Now, if you're talking about like other girls coming into the industry, I think it's very important that they know their worth.

And I think it's much easier, not easier, but it's much more accessible now to know your worth because of things like OnlyFans and because of platforms where you sell content, you know, your fan base, you know, what they're willing to pay, you know, your popularity, you can measure it that way. And I think that's very important because I know like porn back in the VHS days or DVD days or whatever, you didn't know, and you'd had to take whatever the, the companies were willing to pay you.

I mean, there were contract girls that made a lot more just because they were, of course they were more popular and you knew that, but the power has really gotten into the women's hands because of only fans and things like that, because you can just sit at home and go live and make some money. And, you know, it's an amazing thing that women are able to, you know, build their brands on their own and they don't have to rely on the studios anymore. So I think that's put a lot of power

into their hands. And that's something that mainstream is missing, really, because there's not really a platform. I mean, mainstream people can go to OnlyFans, but not generally. I mean, cameos, I don't think that's the same thing. Cameos or maybe even like social media. Social media, yes. Like being an influencer and doing like a very classic influencer deal. Yes, absolutely, yes. But yeah, it's not, to your point, it's not much different.

George Clooney taking, I'm going to relate porn to George Clooney for a second like george clooney taking a nespresso deal versus shooting another oceans movie yeah right i feel like that might be the version of like yeah partnering with a big studio or showing up on only fans at home yeah right and you just do that you make a lot of money and you yeah and it's fun too and i think during the whole thing like when we were in covid and everything right it really blew up. And my audience was huge and we had so much fun and we were inside all the time and I was able to do live shows and talk to everybody.

And there was a real human connection there when the whole world lost that human connection. And I would do all these videos and stuff where I do fake dates where people would buy them and we pretend like I'd meet them at a bar and we were out having a good time and stuff where I do fake dates where people would buy them and we pretend like I'd meet him at a bar and we were out having a good time and stuff in a time when nobody was out or anything. But I do also think people tend to believe that, oh, if you go to OnlyFans, somebody new, they can make tons of money right away. And it's just like, it's not true. It's not true. And I think COVID after COVID, it really kind of started leveling off where it's the porn performers and the influencers and the real established people are making the big money. And, and definitely performers in porn who aren't maybe, or on social media who aren't maybe the biggest definitely make good money on it. But like we were seeing before a teacher quitting school to

make money on OnlyFans or, but if you're not serious about building your brand and business there, it's going to kind of go astray. It's, it is a lot of hard work because I like you spend so much time like making content and doing custom videos and photo sets and just, you know, a lot of stuff. So it is a lot of work, but you're not working for a studio when you're doing it. So you are in control of everything and you are branding your own stuff and making your own money. So that's, that's really empowering. Maitland, I don't know how to ask this question so i'm gonna i'm gonna noodle it with you no i'm just i when a lot of like sex work gets discussed it is almost like a means to an end

where it's like okay i'm gonna go strip i'm gonna go yeah i'm gonna go on only fans i'm gonna be part of porn and i'm gonna do it to get my bag and then i'm gonna leave which the show's called financial feminist i'm like however you want to get my bag. And then I'm going to leave, which the show's called financial feminist. I'm like, however you want to get your bag and you're not hurting yourself or others. Great. Do whatever you got to do. Right. Right. But I also, it leaves me feeling a little icky because I'm like, I don't want you to hate what you have to do in order to make a bunch of money. Or I don't want you to feel like, you know what? I'll just tolerate this. or I don't want you to feel like, you know what, I'll just tolerate this. And then once I have enough money where I don't have to tolerate it anymore, I'll quit. Now, it sounds like for you, that's not where you're at. This is something you, you enjoy that you get to explore your sexuality.

But I just, I know that there's two sides of it and I don't know how to reckon that. I don't, again, I don't know how to, I don't know if if this is a question but it's one of the things I feel where it's like no it's not true get in you get enough money and you quit because you're like yeah I didn't really enjoy it but I got the money that I needed to do whatever I want to do and it's also like I could I can say this with any job like most of us work jobs we don't like until until we get enough enough money. Yeah. I mean, I just feel it's, it's challenging. It's tricky if it is, you know, especially women doing something where they don't love it, but they love the money, you know? Yeah, no, I know. That's frustrating for me too, because I really believe that. I also believe a lot of girls have to say that because it's such a taboo thing. They have to

distance themselves from the job even because I, it's hard unless somebody is, is severely like troubled or mentally ill or such a sad circumstance that they're coming into it where they're being forced in some way, which is terrible, um, and should be, you know, policed and by people. So that's a separate, separate case. But I think there are, are a lot of girls and I've seen instances of it where they distance themselves from the work. So it's like, they don't feel bad because the society looks on them as bad. And like, I'm just making money. Money's good. Money is good in society. Money is an acceptable thing to make, which is fine. It is to me too. But if you enjoy your sexual work or if you enjoy stripping or if you enjoy, it has to be like, oh, I'm doing it for

this reason. I don't, I'm distancing myself from that. And cause, cause there's so many young girls I've seen and I would not be this young girl that I come in the industry where I'm distancing myself from that. And because there's so many young girls I've seen, and I would not be this young girl that I come in the industry where I'm confident about myself. And I was not that young girl, 21, 22 or whatever, where they're so sexually confident and they really love what they're doing.

And I feel people put that badge on them that, oh, they must be messed up or they don't enjoy what they're doing. They're just doing it to make this money. And I, I honestly see firsthand that they absolutely enjoy what they're doing. And then a lot of times they play into that narrative because of society's hold on.

Right. It's not socially acceptable. It's not socially acceptable to enjoy being sexual and enjoy, you know, stripping or only fans or anything to make money. And also, you know, maybe you just want to do it for a certain amount of time too, just because it's, it's a lot of hard work. I mean, if you're going to be stripping every night or if you're going to be, I mean, it is physically a lot of hard work. So maybe you do just want to do it for a limited

time. They say that in the business, there is like a timeframe of talent. Like if they come in at six months, it's either they leave after six months, 18 months or three years plus. But I think the six month there's really come in it and they think it's going to be easy and it's just going to be like sex on camera. And they don't realize what a business it is and how much work you have to put into it in order to succeed at this business. And I think those are the people who are like, I just, they're kind of like the people on only fans who just said,

Oh, I'm just going to go on only fans and make money and like, just rake it all in. But they're not like thinking of building a brand or a business out of it. And it's always frustrated to me when people say, um, mainstream actors like to do this. Like I'm desperate.

I'll go sell my seat pictures on only fans right i serve this idiot actor like do a comedy show um and he's a soap actor but he like made a whole thing about this and i was like you are such a douche i'm sorry you wouldn't make any money nobody wants to see your feet and he's like oh yeah covid lasted longer i was gonna you know well it insults it insults yeah how this is actual people are making money right yeah it's actual work and i think there are people that come into it it's going to be easier it's going to be a certain way and it's not on the 18 month people who leave after 18 months. I think they just, they just get, they worked. They just like tired. I think they made enough and they've made enough

name for themselves. A lot of people though, they're talking about like, they don't work professionally, but now they'll keep working on only fans because they built their audience and they built that. They don't have to go into the studio work all the time. I think now studio work, I mean, it's different for me because I like to make big films and I like to do big acting projects with Bourne. So I am backed by a big studio to be able to do that with a full film crew and cameras. And it probably feels more creative for you too, right? You're looking for a creative outlet. I'm looking for the creative outlet. And then I have my only fans separate, which is amazing.

I'm looking for the creative outlet. And then I have my OnlyFans separate, which is amazing. But for people who aren't interested in that facet of it or making like films and things, they come into the business to get recognition on the studio sites. And they do a bunch of scenes and they get fan base and they build their base in their social media. And then by the time they get to about 18 months, they can go to OnlyFans and they can do their own thing so and maybe once every so often come back for a scene just to pump up the base you know but it's a smart

pun intended yeah yeah exactly puns always intended for me you said something earlier in the interview and you were talking so i wasn't going to interrupt you where you said the word nipple and then they clamped down on people you said nipple and then clamped down and i want i was like it's just in my brain i was like nipple clamp nipple clamp we have had previous sex workers on the show i don't know if you know justine cross mistress justine cross who lives in la no but i feel a connection with mistress because i'm mistress maylin she is yeah she's like a bdsm she has yeah a dungeon that she owns in la oh i respect that that's like see that's like full-on i'm not full-on bdsm mistress i'm more like voice mistress yeah no but she's incredible i've had some other sex workers

on the show they've talked about just like it's very hard to manage the money you do make because it's the stigma. But also sometimes the work you're doing isn't, you know, isn't legal work. So is there certain things that you have to think about when you're making money and how you make money? You were talking about, you know, Snapchat cracking down on you. Yeah. Is there certain things that you have to keep in mind in order to like actually get your money deposited yeah they're definitely i don't have so much of that because everything i do is legal i'm not i'm not looking down on anybody but i'm not doing like i know what she means like sex work like traditional sex work sex work i'm doing pornography but um so i don't have to as much but I know people who've gotten turned down just by depositing money from certain like porn sites just because of their name and everything. Like luckily, I mean, I'm thankful like Vixen has a name that's not, you know, bang20hose.com. LLC.

Bang20hose LLC. No, you know what I've known? I won't say the names of them, but I've heard of girls who will not get hired on sites because their corpse are so dirty sounding. They don't want to get in trouble. The companies, they don't want to like, if they're so raunchy, like, and I don't know why you would bring attention to yourself. Like they're the business that they incorporate to oh that's very i didn't even think about that like we run under victory media i imagine yeah if you're no think about like yeah really i i didn't think about that about how do you name your company when you work in porn it's serious i don't know

why you would name it porny because that's what's really flagging you when you go to the bank right and yeah hello bank of america i'm looking to open up a business checking account yeah two slutty hoes um yeah use my holes oh yeah no it's so dumb i don't that's my advice out there i'm serious people think they're funny with it i don't get it but that's my advice out there. I'm serious. People think they're funny with it. I don't get it, but that's my advice. Name your stuff like an actual business. Cause it is. Yeah. So anytime that kind of stuff goes through banks, that's going to be flagged. Like, so he needs to know that. And yeah. And companies don't want to like write checks to these places. Cause it looks like they're in, it's just flags everything. even if it's totally on the up and up

and it's just them being stupid it's it's it's not good right well companies are trying to crack down on the activity that is trafficking or illegal and so yeah they see yeah and they're like you know what probably not we're not gonna let this transaction go through we're not like but banks do have this clause where um they can say that they don't approve of the work or whatever, if the sex works. So that is a problem too. So yeah, if you're bringing attention to that, you don't have to be doing anything illegal. It's the fact that they think it's like this morality clause, which should be taken away from these banks and corporations and credit card companies and stuff saying that legal work is actually can be turned away because of their morality reasons and stuff so

i heard somebody say um you know how politicians and stuff would crack down on porn and they want to get rid of porn and this was a a porn journalist that i was talking to and and that people are worried like oh would they shut down porn would Would there be nothing? And he said, no, there'll always be porn. These people in politics and on higher ups, they want to watch it. They just don't want to watch women be successful at it. They don't want to watch them make money. They want to watch them be desperate for sex. They want to watch people and women be desperate and humiliated and have to do sex and have to be a, the traditional view of like what they view a prostitute or a whore or whatever. I, I use those words empoweringly otherwise, but that's what they're using them as. And so they don't want you to make money.

They don't want you to be a success. And that's very threatening that OnlyFans and social media has made porn stars have more followers than mainstream actors and stuff. Right. Well, and I don't know any other industry where women 100% of the time, unless it's gay porn, but like gay men porn, and 100% of the time get top billing. 100% of the time. If there's a woman in the scene right like they are the stars they are the people that everybody's coming to see and like i don't know any other industry that operates so true we're the top paid and top billed and top like featured like yeah the girl is it like the guy is the dick you have to have a big dick and good and whatever and i've

actually known a lot of guys uh quite a few guys that go to gay porn because of that because they and they're straight they make way more money and they get more billing and they get you know can build their brand bigger that way so that's interesting you bring that up because yeah in in in porn but it's it's wonderful to have a scene when a guy who's been in the industry a long time recognizes that and he knows that and knows what his job is his job is to build up the girl in the scene to make her look the best you shine yes exactly and those performers are just golden and i i it's amazing and it doesn't mean that they're not like you know rough and tumble and they can you know do all these things you can trust them in the scene performers are just golden and i i it's amazing and it doesn't mean that they're not like you

know rough and tumble and they can you know do all these things you can trust them in the scene to carry it through because as a girl you don't realize in a scene especially i did a gangbang one time i've done a few but my first gangbang and was part of the muse uh universe the second muse film that i did it's a lot of hard work i mean it's so it's so hard you have to like give attention to all of these dicks i was sweating my earrings were gone it's like birds attacking you it's just it's like yeah and then there's and then in this scene and specifically they had every people sitting around watching because it was supposed to be like this sex kind of club and they weren't involved in the scene but they were just

watching it and like you know doing their thing in the background i think to your point earlier of like yeah you show up and you have sex on camera now i think for the average person that i that listening and me i'm going like that seems hard enough you're like that's hard enough but like to think about yeah you have to be an athlete like you you do you're gonna need a knee replacement you're gonna you know you've got yes uh every single hole sometimes is has got things in it and like that takes work and that is a muscle it absolutely does yeah i don't think people realize the athletic and to be towards the camera and to be like right right you're not having sex with you know your partner

at home you're having sex for a camera right yeah and it's like we always say uh your sex muscles are sore afterwards and it's not what you think it's like like i say i'm so sore from the sex it's not my vagina right it's my neck or my lower back because i've had to turn around like this the entire time and i'll always be like my sex muscles like my the ones you never use that are like you have to hold yourself a certain way like my left side up here is hurting because I have to hold myself a certain way the whole time and you're yes sweaty mess by the end it's just but it is thrilling and it is a high because you just get to put all of yourself into it and then at the end it's like wow i did that maitland my last question for

you is what like we've been talking as we've gone through our conversation today of like the taboos and the stigmas what do you wish like you could dispel about your work oh there's so much i think we've talked about a lot of like what i i would just but i would dispel that definitely first off that women are not in control of pornography being made because it is more and more going into the hands of women and also men that don't identify as like typical cis you know gender men that like there's a lot more of that out there that's like non-binary like very right like i know a couple of male directors who they identify as male but they're very fluid i guess is the word i don't know about their i'm all about them personally but they're making some

things that are really cool that are really like outside the box and are like just very relevant and then all of the women that are in the gay women, and it just, there's just so much. I think it's so interesting to me how the porn industry is so very open to all types of sexuality. And I think there are a lot of people that maybe had been oppressed in their lives for like their sexual preferences or what they wanted to do or who they were. And they come to the industry and they definitely find a family and a home of people that will accept them for their otherness. And I felt otherness too, and not as substantial a ways as some people, but I think they find a community there. And then they, I think what really damages them when they,

in the end of porn is when they go back out into the world and people totally rip them apart for what they've done or what they, who they were, whatever. But I think that porn does offer a very solid community for people that, you know, aren't like everyone else, like anyone is really like everyone else, but you know, who don't identify as the typical, you know, suburban American person that we're supposed to think is normal. So I think people think of porn as being something that's dangerous and a bad place to be, but I think it's saved a lot of people.

I really do. Porn has offered such a safety net and such a community for people that feel like they are other than that. I think that should be recognized more because it's really the people in the outside world that have this judgment and taboo that are affecting the people in the porn industry when they come out and want to maybe do something else. Maybe they don't want to do that for the rest of their lives. Maybe they want to to try something else but to be not able to because there's like this witch hunt after them that's that's terrible but um yeah i think people should know that it's much more inclusive and much more open-minded and broad

than anybody and it's not what you see on pornhub don't go to pornhub pay money and you're paying the performer and you're paying for quality you're not going on Pornhub and watching terrible movies and you're paying for protocol and consent like yes that's exactly it's a hundred percent guaranteed if you pay it's a hundred percent yeah right as opposed to whatever you're consuming out there do you potentially don't know yeah yes exactly and you're giving them money and then they can just keep using and abusing people right Mait Maitland, thank you for your time. This was such an interesting conversation. Yeah. I feel like we just were talking. No, it's great. Where can people find out more about you, learn more about your work?

You can find me at Maitland Ward, M-A-I-T-L-A-N-D-W-A-R-D at like Twitter, Instagram, and then on TikTok. TikTok's a hard environment for a porn star, but they always are trying to kick you off with things. So it's Maitland Talks, Maitland Talks, T-O-K-S, but I'm tiptoeing still into that world. But yeah, it's like, I mean, they took off a video where I was just like dancing around and I'm like, this wasn't, I wasn't doing anything sexual in this video. I was just like, maybe my boobs were bouncy, but I naturally have bouncy boobs. So I can't help this. Yeah. So it's, so I don't know. And they were like sexual content, but,

uh, anyway, so, but I'm still forging in through the world, but, and then all my only fans is Maitland ward too. So you can get all of the. If you want me to give you a special custom video, you can, you will love it there. And there's all sorts of fun. I do live shows and stuff. Cool. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Good to talk to you. Thank you so much to Maitland for joining us for this episode. It was incredibly fascinating for me. And one of the questions I've asked a lot is, can porn be feminist? Is porn feminist? And in what ways, if we choose to engage with pornography, can we do so in an ethical way? And like we said in the interview, one of the easiest ways to do that is to pay. Pay for your pornography. Pay for the content that you consume. That way, you know that the

companies you're choosing to support have gone through those rigorous background checks, those rigorous consent checks. And it's just a reminder too, that a lot of the shit out there is unfortunately extremely misogynistic and extremely degrading to women. And if we are going to consume pornography, there is content out there that we can do in a more ethical, supporting to women kind of way. You can find out more about Maitland by Googling her. We got all sorts of resources to her in our show notes. You can also get her book, Rated X,

wherever you get your books. I would love to hear your thoughts about this episode. This is again, both pun intended and not pun intended, a spicier episode than we've done previous. But in talks about feminism, we really think it's crucial to the conversation to talk about our sexual wellness, whatever that looks like. So please feel free to give us your thoughts and maybe you have more questions and maybe you have different things that you want us to cover. But I would just love to hear from you. Thank you so much for being here, Financial Feminists.

We appreciate it. And I hope you have a great rest of your day. Bye. K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, associate producer Tamisha Grant, marketing and administration by Karina Patel, Sophia Cohen, Khalil Dumas, Elizabeth McCumber, Beth Bowen, Amanda Lefeu, Masha Bakhmikieva, Kaylin Sprinkle, Sumaya Molok-Rio, and Harvey Carlson. Research by Arielle Johnson, audio engineering by Alyssa Midcalf, promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting the show.

For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com.