Financial Feminist - 130. How to Steal From the Rich with Vivian Tu

Episode Date: December 19, 2023

You might know her as “Your Rich BFF.” You might also know her as a former Wall Street trader, entrepreneur, or speaker…but one thing you’ll never know her as is broke. Our guest today, Vivian Tu, is a financial expert on a mission to make the financial industry less “male, pale, and stale.” In this episode she’s talking to Tori about how to live like the rich. Tune in for an insightful discussion covering the societal pressures on women when it comes to wealth, misconceptions of money and evil, and how you can begin your journey to getting rich AF.  Get our free debt payoff worksheet: https://herfirst100k.ac-page.com/debt-payoff-freebie Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://financialfeministpodcast.com.  Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You can understand that the system is messed up while also understanding that there are rules of the game. And you can't just say, I'm not playing. You have to play along. You have to play to the best of your ability. You have to play responsibly. But all the while, you can understand that the game's not fair. That some people start life halfway down the Monopoly board and you started at go. Oh, I have Christmas Carol stuck in my head.

I'm so excited to see you. It's Christmas time. It's also the last episode of this year. It is the last episode of Financial Feminist for 2023. And if you have been here for a long time, we thank you. If you are new here, we also thank you. We're just so excited to round out this year after producing episodes for literally almost every week of this year. And Kristen's shaking

her head very tiredly. But we are just so thankful for your support. We could not do this without you. And oh boy, do we have a great last episode for you. Before we get into it, I want to go on a quick little, I don't know if it's a rant or an appreciation moment for Santa Baby. And I have this whole debate on whether or not it's feminist because I've seen the Miley Cyrus version on Jimmy Fallon. And if you haven't watched it, it's great. And it's basically like, I don't need Santa to buy me things. I can buy them for myself. And I agree. But also, I'm like, if Santa does want to buy me things, I'm going to take free shit. Also, if you read the lyrics, first of all, it's Eartha Kitt. This does not get appreciated enough. I was telling this to my partner the other day. I was

like, you know, Santa Baby's Eartha Kitt. He was like, what? And I was like what and i was like yes it's isma from emperor's new groove and madame zeroni from holes like and a bunch of other things like she's a fucking legend died a couple years ago like but i fucking love this woman and that's who sings santa baby so picture isma in your head when you hear santa baby and then these lyrics are fantastic like she's asking for a diamond ring and she's asking for the, she's also asking for a duplex and checks. We love a real estate girly. We love someone who's investing in themselves and she's just asking for blank checks. And then she wants the deed to a platinum mine. I just, I don't know. I just, every time I

listen to this song, I just makes me really happy. And I'm just like, I love that. I just, I don't know. I just, every time I listen to the song, it just makes me really happy. And I'm just like, I love that, you know, it's like, yes, get me the fun things that look good, like rings and all of this other stuff. But also like, I want investments. I want to own property. I want to own industries. She wants a yacht and that's not a lot. I just, I don't know. I just think it's, it's just fun. So hopefully when you listen to Santa Baby this year, you get a little extra joy from it. If you also, it's probably getting a little, a little late in the Christmas season for this, but if you follow us on Instagram or follow us on TikTok. You know that we have brought back the Mariah Carey Savings Challenge. And that is every time you hear,

all I want for Christmas is you, and I'm not going to sing it because it would count. You deposit a certain amount of money, you could decide how much, into your high yield savings account. I was literally at a Christmas party last night with our partnerships manager, Taylor, who was doing the challenge. And she hears the song. And it came party last night with our partnerships manager, Taylor, who was doing the challenge.

And she hears the song. And it came on last night. And I filmed her having to transfer the money. She literally pulled out her phone and she went tap, tap, tap on her app. It can be $0.50 if that's all you got right now. It can be $5. It can be $10. But the idea is that every time you hear Mariah Carey's All I Want for Christmas is You,

you transfer some money into your high yield savings account and into your savings and becomes a fun little game. So if you haven't started the Mariah Carey Savings Challenge already, I encourage you to start. You've got enough days to do some good damage. And if you're continuing to do it and you're cursing my name, well, too bad. You're building your savings. All right, team, let's talk about today's

episode. Good friend of mine, fellow financial expert, you've been asking for this one for a long time. You know who it is. It's fucking Vivian Tu, Your Rich BFF. On a global mission to make the financial industry less male, pale, and stale, Vivian Tu is a former Wall Street trader turned expert, educator, public speaker, host, entrepreneur, media powerhouse, and the founder and CEO of the financial equity phenomenon, Your Rich BFF. In January 2021, she developed and launched Your Rich BFF blog and social media handles as a passion project to destigmatize and make the rules of personal finance accessible and digestible to non-experts and marginalized communities. Her dedication to promoting financial literacy and ability to bridge the gap between finance and the mainstream have earned her cross-platform fame and notoriety, have garnered nearly 6 million followers and counting, as well as honors on both the Forbes 30 under 30 list and the inaugural top creator list. This December, almost a year to the day when my book came out, she launches her own book, which is called Rich AF, the winning

money mindset that will change your life. In this episode, we're going to get into the biggest pushback that we get as women who are financially independent and actively building wealth, including having a candid discussion about the difference between millionaires and billionaires and why it's important to make a distinction between how to build wealth versus hoarding resources. We talk about overcoming mindset blocks around money, the pursuit of wealth as an act of protest, and Vivian even shares a couple fun tax tips. I know, you just heard me say the words fun and tax in the same sentence, but if there's anybody who can make it fun, it's Vivian. So she's going to share a few tax tips

that she's learned over the years that you can take into your own life as well. All right. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Happy Hanuk well. All right. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Happy Hanukkah. Happy Kwanzaa. Happy everything. Thank you for being here. Let's get into the episode. But first, a word from our sponsors. we got to finally meet in person in new york at a lovely dinner and that was yeah we did and i will i will note you give excellent hugs very long like a soft warm hug no I like it so creepy that's not like not in a creepy way I I was very open to the hug it was it was a great hug okay thank you I try to be a warm person I don't know I will take that as a compliment thank you yeah it was a good hug okay good I'm glad. We're so excited

to have you on the show. We ask everybody who comes on who's a finance expert to tell us what their first money memory is. What is the first time that you remember thinking about money? My very first money memory. Do you want it to be like a positive or like a negative? It can be the one that's accurate to you. Okay. I don't want people to judge me on this story, but it's a pretty good one. So in the third grade, we, you know, we had a school supplies list and we would get all these school supplies and I sat next to a girl. We'll just use her initial K. Okay. K was not very prepared. And she was kind of like a little bit of a space cadet. She's like such a nice girl, but like, she just like never had her shit together. And I had a bunch of highlighters and school supplies were like gold to me. I kept good care of them. If I could keep them in the

packaging for as long as humanly possible, I would. It was the best time of the year when you got to go down that aisle. Or like fresh highlighters. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. That tells exactly what kind of people we are because that is the most. Yeah, totally. And so, you know, we were about to do an activity and the teacher was like, everybody get out your highlighter. And I saw Kay was rummaging around and obviously did not have her highlighters handy. And so messed up. I knew that if she rummaged around for too long, the teacher would come to my desk

and be like, Vivian, will you lend this girl a highlighter? And I was like, okay, I know this is about to happen. So I said to her, I will give you a highlighter if I can have that chapstick in your school box. And she was like, you want this chapstick? It's I've used it. And I'm like, yeah, let's trade. Give me that chapstick. So she gives me the chapstick and I give her the highlighter day goes on. I then take a paper clip and I roll up the chapstick. I shear off the top. So it's flat and I roll it down a little bit I end up selling this chapstick for like a dollar fifty okay and then I used the dollar the dollar dollar fifty whatever I sold it for to buy myself a cinnamon stick churro at lunch you were hustling yeah i'm like a little mobster yeah you can't take my highlighter but here's the

thing i will trade it and then mark and then sell my chapstick for a profit so that is my earliest money memory thank you so much for asking this question. And now people know that I literally was running an underground chapstick warehouse. Yeah. Yeah. In elementary school. And the funny thing is, is usually our follow-up question is,

how does that relate to how you manage money now? If you were to think about this from a therapy standpoint, what does that say about you now? were to think about this from a therapy standpoint, what does that say for you now? I would say that positively speaking, it means that I'm always thinking about how I can grow my wealth. How am I able to level up? And I think that's something that I learned as an adult, probably around the same time you and I both did, like a little bit, like a few years into our career, wasn't straight out of college, but it has really shown that I am focused

on making more money because it affords me little luxuries like that cinnamon stick churro. And let me tell you, it tasted that much better because I earned it. I love the spin. Run for office, babe. We've had a few recent guests

who are children of immigrants and they all have this really unique perspective on how it affected their relationship with money growing up. What was that like for you? Yeah. So my parents immigrated to the US from China in their early 20s. And I always say this, but like their focus was so much on survival. Like they always felt like the other shoe was about to drop. And for them, it was safe, safe, safe, safe, safe. So, you know, my mom still to this day,

like washes Ziploc bags and reuses them, which is like disgusting because sometimes they mold. And I'm like, ew, mom, just like throw that shit out. And I think that gave me a really good financial foundation and that I was, I never had a good financial foundation and that I never had a problem with a budget. I never had a problem saving because it was so deeply ingrained in my DNA because my parents had to. They weren't making a lot of money. And to make ends meet, they had to be really mindful of how they were spending, whether that be making sure that they

weren't overpurchasing groceries or driving really modest cars until the wheels fell off. I think saving and budgeting that half of the financial, you know, journey equation, I've always been really good at, but I think like it also came with a set of negatives. Like I have really bad spending guilt. Even now I do have a little bit of, I would say scarcity mindset when it comes to like, will I ever have enough? And, you know, certainly investing and growing wealth wasn't a conversation that was had at our dinner table. And that was something that I had to learn, you know, as an adult and a little bit the hard way. parents are not immigrants, but very similar mindset where it was just like frugality and like making the right choices because that means safety and stability. And I would love to know if this was also accurate for you. I've talked about how my parents basically begged me to not quit my job when even her first hundred K was growing and it was like gaining speed. And I had a hundred K

in the bank and they were like, no, you need to do everything you can to keep your job. And like, I'm thankful they made that decision for me because it meant that I had a stable childhood. I didn't want for anything. I was good. But at the same time, risks are not my parents jam, even the ones that are calculated. Was that similar for you when you were like ready to take entrepreneurship full time? Yeah, you're not. Super duper, super duper similar. I would say like even today, like when they're thinking about Super duper, super duper similar. I would say like even today, like when they're thinking about their own lives, when they're planning vacation, they're like very afraid of taking risk. And they're like, oh, if this sounds too complicated, we just won't do it.

We'll just take a cruise because then everything's all inclusive and I don't have to worry about it. I'm like, but like, I know you guys really wanted to go to Spain. Like, why don't you just do that? And when I left my Wall Street job, this job, which by the way, was like everything that I had been working towards, right? Like I was our high school valedictorian. I was such a great student. I go to UChicago. It's like top three university in the country.

I graduate with a great GPA. I think it was like a three, eight or something. Get this crazy coveted job. It felt like for me, when I got that job, I had made it not even because I got the job, but because my mom was able to tell people I got it and I got to work there and she got to brag about it. And it felt like I was ticking off boxes of like a good dutiful Asian daughter to do list. And when I decided to leave, they were not at all supportive. I think, you know, it's public information, but like I left wall street to go work at Buzzfeed. And what only thing my mom knew about Buzzfeed were like the,

what kind of cheese are you quizzes? And my mom was literally like, you did all of this. Like you did the thing in high school. You did the thing in college. You got the job, you did all this, you you've done it. And now you're going to like leave and go write quizzes. Like this bullshit media company. Yeah, exactly. Work at this bullshit media company. And I was like, well, first off, no, like I'm on a sales, like the biz dev, like sales team. Like it's not the same.

Like I'm not here writing what kind of cheese are you, but they couldn't put it together. And we got into such a big fight. We did not talk for two to three months. And keep in mind, I'm an only child. Like I'm an only child. You guys, you were so similar. Oh, my God. Yeah. So you know what it means to not talk to your parents when you're an only child for two to three months. It's a blow up fight. And when I started Your Rich BFF, I actually

didn't tell my parents for the first eight months. So just my secret little project. eight months. So just my like secret little project. And it wasn't until I started making some money doing it that I was like, okay, my mom is always suspicious why I don't have time to call her. She's wondering why there's like a ring light set up in my living room. Like, you know, she's starting to ask some questions and I need to give her an answer. That's not like, you know, clearly so transparent that she can see through it. And I told her the truth. And I don't know if you did this, but I was a bad kid. Like I used to get in trouble all the time as a little kid. And so before my parents could yell at me, this is how I feel like I became a decent public speaker. I learned to filibuster and talk very quickly. So I would get my entire story, my alibi out. And so when I told my mom, I was like, Hey mom, by the way, I started

this TikTok channel. I'm your rich BFF. I make money, blah, blah, blah. And I ended it. I closed the conversation off with like, and I've made a lot of money doing this. It's a great supplement to my income. And there was just like silence for like 10 seconds. And then my mom goes, you made how much doing this? And I knew I fucking had them. Like I wasn't going to get yelled at. Well, you positioned it in the way that they care. Right. Right. And so I positioned this to my mom as like a nice little side hustle where I was earning extra income and I was saving it. And she was like, Ooh, we love that. So when they found out about your rich BFF, we didn't fight. And when I ended up leaving buzzfeed to go

full time i had you know everything in my arsenal ready to fight this battle and when i told her and i told my parents they were like yeah you're an adult now like it seems like this is going really well like go for it you know i did we just want you to be happy and i'm like who are you and what have you done with my parents like asian parents don't say stuff like that. But yeah, it was a shockingly easier conversation the second time around than I had anticipated. It was maybe somebody who came on the show or I read it. It was like immigrant parents take the most giant risk to never take a risk again. Literally, literally. Like you leave the country where you speak the language and have people and family and a home and uproot your entire life to go somewhere

where you don't know anybody, can't speak the language, can't do anything. And then for the rest of your life, you're like, like no risk. Right. Oh gosh, we have very, very similar relationships. Again, we'll unpack it another time. Okay, so most infamously,

and you also just mentioned your time on wall street. Can you give us a breakdown how you got there and what it felt like to work in such this almost mythical place? I feel like it feels kind of like, you know, it doesn't feel real in many, many ways because it's been represented in the media so much. And also, yeah, I don't know. It just seems like a bunch of men screaming at each other. What was what was that like? I mean, sometimes it was. So UChicago in particular is a big feeder school for a lot of Wall Street banks. So what ends up happening is they will create a recruiting team. So all of the big banks across the street will say like,

who are alumni from this school who are passionate about recruiting young students who are very, you know, essentially vetted already because you have to be smart enough to be attending one of these schools. And they send those people back to campus and they host these like coffee chats where they get to know you. But in reality, it's like a mini interview. And then if you get invited to these coffee chats and you do a decent job, they'll be like, oh, we would like to invite you to come to another thing. And it becomes one step after the other. You keep going past round and round. I ended up applying to, I would say, you know, a couple of major banks.

Ones that you've heard of, J.P. Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Bank of America, like Citibank, like all of them. And I got interviews at pretty much all of them, but ended up deciding to take an internship at JP Morgan. It's a 10 week internship. And this is the scariest part that people don't ever talk about. They hire basically like two to three X, the number of interns that they have full-time positions. So when you get that internship, you are not like, it becomes like a shark tank. It's literally a pressure chamber because you either have to do or die. And for what it's worth, my desk started with three interns. Only I got hired full time. I basically had to kill two other people to get this job. And metaphorically, metaphorically, you know, your HBFF does not condone murder.

Have to put that out there. People on the internet are weird. Oh, people on the internet are crazy. Yeah. No, she participated. I wanted on the record that Vivian participated in the finance version. The Hunger Games. And you're just constantly

asking like, how can I help? How can I do better? You're like literally like just kissing ass for 10 weeks, but you have to make sure that every single one of your skills shines, whether that be remembering the, like, you know, remembering lunch orders or taking down the most best notes for a meeting or like just helping someone. It's just pick me girl energy the entire time. most best notes for a meeting or like just helping me grow energy the entire time. It's so pick me energy the entire summer. Pick me, choose me, love me. Yeah. I ended up getting this full-time job and I don't want to paint such a scary picture. When I did start my job, I was very, very fortunate. The vast majority of the team was white guy, but my manager, my mentor was an Asian woman. But my manager, my mentor was an Asian woman.

And Tori actually got to meet her at this dinner. And I credit so much of my growth as an adult to my friend Jean. Jean was my boss. And she certainly was not easy to work for. I got yelled at all the time. But she was fair. And she really gave a shit about me and my education and teaching me everything and giving me a lot of the resources that she didn't get because she also came from a non-generational wealth family. She was one of the first people in her

family to go to college. She went to Stanford. She gets this job doing this and she has to grind her way from the bottom up. And she looked at me and she must have seen basically a woman of color. Cause there was just some stuff that like we could talk about that I could not talk about with anybody else. And I know for a fact, a lot of my girlfriends didn't get that. Their first bosses weren't jeans. They were, you know, white guys and they just like, couldn't have certain conversations, but you know, first year and a half going great. Then the head of my desk got let go. So that ended up with a new desk head being hired, firing half of the team. And keep in mind, this is the team that hired me. I like everybody. Everybody likes me. We feel warm and fuzzy. Whole new crew. I'm like, I don't know any of you people. And now I feel like I have to prove

myself all over again. And one thing that, you know, I think most trading analysts don't need to have really is like a ton of Excel ability because you're not doing that much work in spreadsheets. That's more for the bankers on, you know, the other side of the wall. And I had those skills because I interned my sophomore summer in commercial banking and the new head of the desk found out that I could do these things because I helped a couple of people on the desk create little spreadsheets that would help them see how their P&L was tracking, all that. And he basically asked me, he goes, do you want to leave your manager and come work for

my new best friend who's coming? And he's going to be my right-hand guy. And I'm like, you just started here. You are the new, the second coming. Everyone's looking to be my right-hand guy. And I'm like, you just started here. You are the new, you know, the second coming. Everyone's looking to you. Like you're the boss. Like I'm 22, 23 at this time. Like, I can't say no to this question. Like that's not a yes or no question. That's like a yes. Or when can I start? And that's the beginning of the end, my friends, because when I started to go work for this guy, it all really changed. Suddenly I went from being

like superstar rockstar from being like superstar, rock star to being like the chick who just like couldn't get it right. It was very othering. And this guy would make comments like, you're so girly. You're too girly to be in the seat. And I've talked about this before, but the very last straw that broke the camel's back is I came into work one day with like a long cardigan. And this guy put his hands together, bowed at me and said, Ooh, is that a kimono? And to be clear, I'm not even Japanese. So I'm like, thank you, sir. Wrong kind of Asian. But like, it literally was like a joke written in like some shitty nineties knock knock joke book that this guy had put together. And I was like, this guy's never

going to advocate for me. He's never going to want to make sure that I get paid. He doesn't give a shit about me. It's time to go. And who do I run to? My mentor. I told her, I was like, I'm quitting this job. I'm quitting tomorrow. And she was like, don't be an idiot. Don't quit tomorrow. You don't have anything lined up. You got to pay rent, babes. I know what's in your checking and savings account. You can't quit tomorrow. So I don't, but I talked to her about my concerns and she's like, all right, just, you know, start interviewing. And you know, would you potentially be interested in a career change? I was like, I'll do anything. I will literally go scrub tables. I'll go bus boy at the nearby restaurant. I don't care. Like I'm

not going to work here anymore. And as fate would have it, my mentor had a best friend who had worked in finance for four years and then went into the tech media space and had a conversation with her, ended up going through a couple rounds of interviews. And next thing I know, I'm working for my manager, my first manager, my mentor's best friend. So yes, I literally worked for a pair of best friends as my first two jobs. And I feel so grateful to have had that network, to have someone who could bail me out at that moment, but it was real. And when you're 22 and 23 and you spend your entire life working towards a goal just to find out shit's not going the way you planned and you don't have any control in the position like i wasn't in a position of power i was like just trying to not lose my job and it

sucked we have similar stories my first job out of school thought it was great everything was going great and then had an incident where somebody else blamed me for something they did I almost got fired I was 23 got called into the office by the CEO who told me if you don't like it you can fucking leave and yes that's a direct quote and yeah he's like 23 year old employee sitting there crying and then I was like I don't want to do this. Yeah. I was like, this is awful. I don't want to be here. Yeah. And the rose colored goggles come off and you're like, oh, this is this is not it. This is not it. This is something I've been wanting to talk to you about for a long time, because I think we both have, again, I'm realizing

very similar, not only backgrounds, but also understandings about personal finance. I imagine you get the same kind of comments. Whenever I talk openly about the fact that I am a millionaire, that I'm a multimillionaire, that I want to pursue wealth, the comments are like, eat the rich and like, The comments are like, eat the rich. And like, millionaires shouldn't exist. Can we talk about the difference? And I know you did this with a grain of sand.

Beautiful analogy. Yeah. But what is the difference as two very good liberals who, I don't know, do you believe billionaires should exist? I don't really believe billionaires should exist. I think billionaires with a B should not really be a thing. Yeah. But millionaires certainly should. But millionaires and billionaires are so totally that's but they get lumped into the same category. So talk to me about that because it infuriates me. But I also know that me trying to have a conversation with somebody in the TikTok comments is not going to actually do anything. So let's talk about that. Yeah. So let's get one thing straight. A million dollars ain't what it used to be, baby.

And that's the other, sorry. That's the other thing is people also in the comments are like, a million dollars is nothing. I have people in the camp who are like, you should go die. You have so much money. Fuck you. And then other people who are like, who are like a million dollars is nothing. That's not that impressive. And it's always men, by who are like who are like a million dollars is nothing that's not that impressive and it's always men by the way it's like million dollars is not that impressive big whoop yeah a million dollars not what it used to be yeah a million dollars is not what it used to be and you know i in my adult life have lived in some of the most expensive major metros being new york city and miami and i think it's really crazy because when you actually look at

what a million dollars can get you in those two places, I'm really trying to speak to my own experience because I don't want to extrapolate, but it's not much. It does not buy you the yacht in the South of France. It does not buy you the Lambo. It does not buy you that Birkin bag. You cannot have that if you want to live. And a million dollars does not get you there. What I will say is, is I think a lot of those comments stem from a place of just like true frustration because the financial system has not served a lot of people for so long now. And it's only gotten so much worse. And it's been exacerbated by the fact that the middle class is shrinking. The of living is rising and when you can't afford groceries to hear someone who looks like you and

me young women talk about how much money they have it feel it's hurtful i get it i totally understand and i'm so empathetic to that because to your point the system has fucked them and they are just like i I'm drowning. You're now the human embodiment of everything that I'm angry at. Right, right. Yeah. So I'm so, I get where it comes from. Exactly. But I think it's just best visually displayed.

And, you know, you mentioned my video about the grain of sand. Like if you go and collect a gram of sand, a gram is like roughly about a sugar packet worth of sand. I've got about two of those. Okay. Two, two sugar packets worth of sand. And you're mad at me when that metaphor is extrapolated to how much money Elon Musk has. He has four times my body weight in sand. Why are you mad at someone who has two sugar packets of sand versus someone who has so much and frankly isn't doing anything worthwhile with it at this point? Right. Right. I think the idea that there should be a, I don't want to call it a wealth tax, but I want to call it a billionaire tax.

Yeah. Because if you have a billion dollars, you can do anything you want. Anything. And I really mean anything. I mean, you can buy a mega yacht, a home in pretty much wherever you could feasibly be. 20 homes. 20 homes. 20 homes. You can get whatever you want. You can buy every car under the sun. You can do every, you can. You can sway an election in almost any country in any country, literally you can do anything and you wouldn't miss the other a hundred billion. You wouldn't. And I think that money could be better used, re-injected into the economy, re-injected into small businesses, re-injected into causes of social good.

I just think that that money has better use versus just hoarding. Yeah, it's just hoarding. It's literally hoarding. It's like when COVID hit and people were buying 18 packs of toilet paper and I was wiping my ass with one ply. Let me tell you,

if everybody just got the appropriate amount of toilet paper instead of 18 packs of the mega rolls, we could have all used two-ply. So I just think there's a huge difference between a millionaire and a billionaire. I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to be a millionaire, with wanting financial wellness, because frankly, to be financially stable, to be financially well these days, at retirement, you're going to need about seven figures. You're going to need it. You're going to need probably multi-seven figures for the average person. Yeah, probably multi. Exactly. And there's nothing wrong with that. You can understand that

the system is messed up, that we should be writing our legislators to change this while also understanding that there are rules of the game. And you can't just say, I'm not playing. You have to play along. You have to play to the best'm not playing. You have to play along. You have to play to the best of your ability. You have to play responsibly. But all the while, you can understand that the game's not fair, that some people start life halfway down the Monopoly board and you started at go. You have to understand that. You transitioned perfectly into what I wanted to kind of relate, which is specifically with women. I've talked about this in my book. I know you talk about this with your work is I think that's one of the lies

that gets fed is money is evil, right? Money is bad. And so we push it away because we don't want to be bad people, right? And as soon as women do start building wealth, right? As soon as folks like you and I show up online and we're like, yep, this is the amount of money I have. I'm unapologetically pursuing wealth. Our weaponization of altruism happens where typically men are like, and women with internalized misogyny are like, why are you bragging? You shouldn't have that amount of money. Like the pursuit of wealth is wrong. You should be donating more, right? You should be giving more. And that's the really interesting thing that happens is we're so uncomfortable as a society with the pursuit of wealth

for good reason because for many people who are wealthy they are pieces of shit to the point where we don't do it ourselves and we actively push it away because we think it's a bad thing and then we also when we do start to become financially stable, when we do start to opt in to, nope, I'm going to negotiate for my worth. I'm going to start a business where I can make more money. I'm going to do these things. Then society is like, oh, she's no longer controllable. We're going to tell her to play small again. It's just so interesting to me that, that again i think part of the narrative is like millionaires are bad gets lumped into this this feeling of don't pursue wealth because it's bad when in actuality though i think the way we fix it is members of marginalized groups getting more

money yeah 100 that wasn't a question i guess but i but I don't know. It's just- No, no, I get it. It's just so ironic to me. I mean, I think we've all seen the headline. In the last XYZ number of months, Mackenzie Bezos has given away 50% of her wealth. Nothing bad happens when we give women more money. Nothing bad happens when we give, you know, Black, Indigenous, people of color money.

Nothing bad happens when we give the LGBTQ community color money. Nothing bad happens when we give the LGBTQ more like community more money. These nothing bad happens. What happens is those dollars get reinjected into small businesses who may identify that way. That money is then used to create programs to uplift communities. Like we've all seen the, um, this like cute little reel or whatever. I can't remember. I'm like not sporty, but like this guy, he's a football player and he's like talking to another member on his team. He's an NFL player. And he's like, yo, you want to come with me on Friday to go like give out turkeys? And some guys like what? And he's like, yeah, like I'm giving out turkeys. It's Thanksgiving. I'm revitalizing my community. And he's a young black man who's got, who's got it like that. He's got that money and he's going, he literally said, I'm going back to the hood to give out Thanksgiving dinners. And what does that tell you about where people's heads are at when those communities make money?

They want to bring up the crew they came up with. They want to help other the crew they came up with. They want to help other people get on their feet. That's also the question that goes back to like so many young immigrant kids helping to support their families, sending money back. Where do you think that money goes? That money goes to your grandma. That money goes to your mom and dad. That money goes to your family. And so I love the idea of empowering, both your and my mission is to empower communities that haven't been taught how to be good with money, how to get good with money so that then they can help other people. Because if you are, I give it a one to 10 scale. If you are a seven on the money knowledge scale, you can teach fours and fives. If you're a five on the money knowledge scale, you can teach fours and fives. If you're a five on the money knowledge scale, you can teach twos and threes. And if you are, you know, someone who does this day in and

day out, the hope is that you can teach everyone who may not have this information. And when we do that, more people get access in the same way that like opening up access to higher education or opening up access to resources is beneficial like opening up access to finance is like you say our greatest form of protest yeah well and it's embracing that feeling too of just like nope i'm gonna pursue wealth like i don't need to apologize for it i'm gonna pursue wealth because i know it's going to set me up better. And that is an act of protest. And I can use all of my influence and my power and my voice and all of the money I have to provide jobs, to grow a business, to revitalize a community. And I think that is just this moment where we tell members of marginalized communities to not want money as a way to continue to keep them playing small. And don't you think it's so interesting that when a rich white guy in a suit talks about how much money he has, people are like,

oh yeah, like they're like creaming their pants. They're like so excited. Oh, literally. Oh, like Elon Musk is worshipped. Again, I say this in my book. I'm like, Elon Musk is worshipped. He can sneeze and people are like, like, I want to suck his dick. Versus, yeah. It's crazy. I just think that like, I remember when I was starting out, like, lest we forget,

I put in my time on Wall Street. I didn't just start. I had to pass the Series 7, the 63, I got my 55. I had to get all these licenses. I had to make sure that I had not committed

any financial crimes. I had to like, there was a vetting, I had to pee in a cup so that they were like, no drug use it. Like I had to do all of these things to get that job. And I gutted it out and I was good at my job. And when I started making content, people were like, what makes you qualified to talk, talk about this? And I'm like, you didn't ask the 15 year old boy in his mom's basement, why he was qualified to talk about this homeboy has never had a job he has never ever had a brokerage account he doesn't have retirement savings but like me someone who is you know who literally went to u chicago did all of these right things

got the right job passed all these exams and licensing went through every single hoop. You don't trust me? What's wrong with you? I'm at an event four months ago where I was paid $25,000 to come keynote. I am signing copies of my New York Times best-selling financial book and a white man in his 50s comes up and goes, what you had to say was really interesting, but what are your qualifications? I'm literally like signing

books and i'm like this this right here and i just handed him a book and i was like i'm doing just fine thank you it's crazy it's like crazy what a weird neg like was he hitting on you no i think um i think maybe he was well intentioned i think it was a it was a big community of financial advisors. And I think they were trying to figure out, like, if you don't have a CPA, how did you get around this? Yeah.

But just the way it came out was just kind of like, but what are your qualifications? And I'm like, here you go. Here's the book. I'm doing just fine. It's just so funny. So good. It's so funny

speaking of books you have a book coming out yes and i'm very excited it is called rich af the winning money mindset that will change your life can i say is it rich as fuck yeah like we're calling it rich af you know just making sure it's like nice and pg because the today show what i'm going on good morning america because my subtitle has bullshit they were like i was just like just say bs it's fine yeah you could say bs i could keep moving okay i'm gonna own it here it rich as fuck the winning money mindset that will change your life um it discusses how to live like a rich person can we dive into a few examples of how to live like a rich person yeah so i think one thing people don't realize is that rich people are really lazy. They always love to talk about hard work, but like only when you're the one pumping their gas or like running their door dash to them, rich people are lazy. And I want to show people how they can be

effectively lazy and have their money working hard to make them more money versus their bodies, their minds, and their labor. Because at the end of the day, we are all human. You can probably only work a max amount per day before at a certain point, your body will give out. Your mind will give out. You will burn out. But money don't sleep.

It does not get tired. You don't have to give it a lunch break. Your money can keep working for you forever. And I think it's really important to call that out because it shows that rich people are not inherently harder workers than us, than the regular people. I would say another fun little tid, that's some Karen yelling at some poor 22-year-old cashier at the front of the McDonald's line. I'm not saying do that. But I want to help give people a little bit of that sense of entitlement because your

business is worth something. And it is so important to remember that you are worth something and that your bank should be bending over backwards to do right by you because your business is valuable to them. And you don't have to be J-Lo walking in with $300 million for them to give a fuck. You can ask for things. You can negotiate. You can be powerful because you should be entitled. You have value. I couldn't agree with that more. I think there's this, again, element of like, play small, play small. Don't take up too much space. Don't ask for things. Don't make ways. Don't make ways. Totally. People ask me all the time. They're like, how do you get like

free hotel upgrades everywhere you go? And I'm like, I ask. I ask. I literally, when I check in, I go, hey, do you have any complimentary upgrades? And sometimes they tell me no, but most of the time they're like, yeah, sure. I just ask. Yeah. I think that's so important. Exactly. And also this belief too, that you don't get an extra gold star if you make things harder than they have to be. No, you also don't get an extra gold star if you make things harder than they have to be. No, you also don't get an extra gold star for making them easier for other people because it's their job to help you. Right, right. If you can automate your bills, automate your bills. If you can automate your savings, automate your savings. If you can find a couple investments that you like, you can just purchase those investments over and over and over and over and over again.

investments that you like, you can just purchase those investments over and over and over and over and over again. Like it doesn't have to be hard in order to work. It doesn't have to be difficult in order to be effective. Yep. If we're discussing more mindset stuff outside of the obvious systemic factors that affect women, people of color, LGBTQ, disabled folks, what mindset do you feel like stands in the way of most people when it comes to finances? And we've already started talking about a few of these things, but what do you see is the biggest reason from your mindset standpoint that people aren't able to build wealth to feel financially well? Yeah. I think one thing that people struggle with a lot is I know there's like a psychological concept behind this, but like essentially like status quo bias. So if you are living a life that you like, that you're like, okay, cool. Everything is good. I was able to buy my coffee this morning and I went to my

job and I don't love it, but I don't hate it. And then I come home to my apartment. That's okay. And I watched, you know, a TV show. And then I go to bed. You are comfortable with that life. Is it the best life you could possibly be living? No. Is it bad? No. You still have an okay life. People are sometimes very resistant to change

because change feels hard. You're gonna have to overhaul your entire life. But in reality, you can make one little change once a week, once a month, and overall that will level up your life over time versus being like, okay, well, suddenly instead of coffee, I'm going to start drinking tea, even though you hate tea. riding a bicycle. Oh, and I'm going to change jobs because this one pays more, but I don't even like this company or my new boss. Instead of coming home and relaxing, I'm going to go run a half marathon as part of it. You don't have to change every single part of your life. You are allowed to want comfort. You are allowed to want those creature comforts. You are allowed to want to do things you like, but making small, substantive changes over time is going to make

you a better person, is going to make your money way better, and is going to give you a better life overall. The theme of this show lately, for probably the past year, has been getting comfortable being uncomfortable. And we don't mean unsafe, but it's that feeling of when your head hits the pillow and you're like, I don't know if I'm satisfied with my life. I don't know if I'm satisfied maybe with my partner, with my job, with where I live, what I'm doing. And that, again, the narrative, you're so right, that's fed to us. It's just like, it's fine. It's fine, though.

It's fine. And it's like, I don't want you to live a life that's just fine. Fine. Right. That's not fun. That's not. You get one shot. It's's not you get one shot it's like you get one shot and if you're just like it's fine and you can actually do something about it even if that

feels scary well beautiful doesn't work out okay you can make a different decision that's okay in the movie of your life do not be a cameo do not be an extra do not be part of the cast you are the main fucking character you are the protagonist you live that life exactly how you want yep one of my last questions for you it's what i lovingly call cayman island shit even though it's legal talk to me about some like tax strategies legal legal loopholes. I'll literally go into my accountant's office and be like, what Cayman Island shit am I not doing that I could be doing? Yeah. So talk to me about some of the things that like most people have no idea about, but that they can likely take advantage of. I want to think about some like my favorite Cayman Island shit um well I am relearning how to drive and I lived in New York for six years

and before I got in Chicago for four years okay it's 10 years I haven't been behind the wheel of a car no I totally I understand now what you meant by that I for those of you who can't see I gave this like confused look in my head I was like that you had learned wrong and then we're relearning as opposed to you just hadn't done it in a while. I was like, who are you like, like breaking with your left foot? No, I had. And that's why I gave you a confused look. But what you've said makes total sense.

I'm just having I'm having a day. You learn how to I learn. Yes, I learned how to drive when I was like, you know, 16, 18, whatever, like normal age. And then I didn't do it for a decade. And so now I'm relearning how to drive and be a safe driver. And I think once I get more comfortable with driving again, I'm going to think about buying a vehicle. And one of my favorite Cayman Island shit things is that if you are a business owner, there is something called a section 179 deduction. there is something called a Section 179 deduction. And essentially, if you get a vehicle over 6,000 pounds, you are able to essentially deduct the cost of that vehicle all in year one versus

amortizing it over the next five years. So what that really means is the government will help you pay for that car. And obviously, there are some caveats in that like if you end up selling the car you have to recapture that depreciation but you know if you are a business owner who plans on buying a car not leasing if you plan on driving until the wheels fall off this is a great way to save on a vehicle over 6 000 pounds okay this is maybe my own stupidity what's over 6 000 pounds because in my head it's like a semi truck but it's camp no no like you want to know why like everybody in la drives a g-wagon that's why like a range rover like a porsche cayenne uh even just like a i have a toyota rav4 i was gonna say google yeah you should google um how much those weigh because i don't know that off the top of my head, but they are, you know, it's very much.

It's like 3,600 pounds. Okay, so you might need the Highlander or what's the bigger Toyota? I'm trying to think. Highland. I have a 2014 RAV4 that I bought when I was 22 and I still, that's still the car I drive. The Highlander is not even heavy enough maybe it's a toyota sienna that you can do it with nope the sienna is not this is where we're at now right we're so you know you gotta do this but there is a reason why there are so many people in hollywood

who drive g wagons and it's not just because they're cool looking it's because they're taking these write-offs they can write them off off. Interesting. Okay. But you in New York, are you going to feel comfortable getting a big car? Okay. So I don't know that I told you this, but I am living officially in Miami. I knew you were splitting your time, but I didn't realize. Yeah. Amazing. How are you liking it? I like it a lot. I think it's a little challenging because I don't drive and Miami is quite spread apart, but the weather's much, much better. And I love that it's sunny. I'm a big swimmer. So I actually open water swim in the ocean. And the other week I saw a stingray and I made sure not to touch it. But you know, it's like, cool. That's amazing. Yeah. Cool. I went to Miami for the first time and we should talk about it because

yeah i did not see the things that i should have i went and i was like okay i was i was in um between miami and is it fort lauderdale no this is where my geography is bad it's whatever is in between those that's where i'm staying okay what else do you hope that people take away from your book like if somebody has closed the book, what is the feeling you want them to have? Yeah, I want people to be able to read the book from page one to page, I believe it's 336. It might be off by one or two,

depending on where the final proofs come in. But I want them to be able to level up their life. I think a big question that you and I probably both get is like, what do I do if I don't know anything? Where do I start? How do I begin? What can I do? And I hope that my book does that for people because that feeling of helplessness, I had it. my Wall Street income and living paycheck to paycheck and spending all my money on tequila at a shitty dive bar on Friday, Saturday nights. And I don't want people to feel that way anymore. I just don't think it's necessary. I think this book is going to be able to serve as a nice roadmap that you can check things off one by one and feel a lot better about wherever you are on your financial journey.

Oh, you're going to love this. If people do want to pre-order, there is a pre-order URL, which is richaf.me because it's a manifestation. And I wanted people to know that everybody deserves to be rich AF. I love it. It's so good talking to you. I appreciate your work and I appreciate it's just very, very, I don't know if validating is the right word. It's so good talking to you. I appreciate your work and I appreciate, it's just very, very, I don't know if validating is the right word. It's very comforting to have somebody else who's also like, I think we're just very in sync about like why we're doing this, what we're doing it for, both for ourselves and for our communities. And it's just, it's just, it's just really amazing to watch you succeed and to also know that like, yeah, I'm not the only one doing this.

You're not the only one doing this. Like there's people out there who are, we're all trying to do the same thing. Exactly. And it's just very comforting. So where can people find you? Where can people buy the book? You guys can find me all over social media as YourRichBFF. And you can find the book at richaf.me.

It comes out December 26th, but you can pre-order it now. Amazing. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much to Vivian for coming on. She and I just constantly, every time we talk,

just we have pretty much the exact same business. We're out here just trying to help women and marginalized people get more money and to become financially educated in a way that's accessible and nonjudgmental. And if you bought my book, you're going to like her book too. Again, it's called Rich AF, available wherever you get your books and makes a great holiday gift and maybe pair it with Financial Feminist and you've got a one-two punch. So thank you as always for being here. I hope you have a great, safe, restful rest of 2023.

We will see you back here in 2024. And oh boy, you are not ready for the shit we're doing in 2024. It's going to be so exciting, y'all. So thank you from the bottom of my heart for being here, for continuing to support our work, and for taking an active role in bettering your own money and bettering the world. And I hope you have a great rest of the year and we'll see you back here very, very soon. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast.

Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, associate producer Tamisha Grant, marketing and administration by Karina Patel. Sophia Cohen. Khalil Dumas. Elizabeth McCumber. Beth Bowen. Amanda Lefeu. Masha Bakhmikieva.

Kaylin Sprinkle. Sumaya Molokurio. And Harvey Carlson. Research by Arielle Johnson. Audio engineering by Alyssa Medcalf. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton. Photography by Sarah Wolf. And theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound.

A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com.