Financial Feminist - 144. How to Win the Financial Game: Money Coaching with Tori & Tiffany Aliche

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

Have you been wondering how to effectively diversify your investment portfolio? Or whether you should prioritize real estate investments over traditional retirement accounts? In this episode of the Financial Feminist, we’re answering more user submitted questions, but this time we have TWO money experts giving you perspective — host Tori Dunlap and New York Times Bestselling Author, Tiffany “The Budgetnista” Aliche! Together they tackle these questions and more, offering valuable insights into personal finance. From budgeting hacks and saving money on groceries to understanding investment options like Roth IRAs and real estate, they provide practical money advice for listeners at every stage of their financial journey. Tune in as Tori and Tiffany share tips on managing debt, maximizing scholarships, and building a solid foundation for financial wholeness. Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://financialfeministpodcast.com.  Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Budgetnista website: http://budgetnista.com Made Whole Workbook: https://thebudgetnista.com/order-made-whole/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When I think about my business, when I think about anything that's been successful, it has not been accidental. I figure out what I want. I figure out who already has what I want. I ask them, can you share some of those steps with me? And then I do those steps to the best of my ability. And then I put the work in and they call it the law of detachment, which is like, you are in charge of the input and you release yourself from what the output is because that's

not on you. Hi, financial feminists. output and you release yourself from what the output is because that's not on you. Hi Financial Feminist. Welcome back to the show. Hello. If you're an oldie, but a goodie, welcome back. And if you're new to the show, hi, I'm so excited to see you. Thanks for being here. Thanks for listening to our show. We talk about how money affects women differently and I fight the pace you are keeping making you rich. That's enough intro for me. Let's talk about our guest. Three time guest of Financial Feminist. She is our most popular guest, both in terms of how many times she's been here, but also in terms of how many times you've all requested her.

Tiffany, my good friend and fellow finance expert who we have had on the show previously two times returns to do a fun little like Q&A, almost like live coaching money episode where we listen to some voicemails and then get into our answers. So if you've ever wanted to be financially coached by both of us, it's a fun little episode about starting a business, about how to win the credit card game and even answer a very common question about investing versus real estate. We also talk about Tiffany's new workbook made whole. We joke that this is an Ask TNT episode because we're dynamite. It's my least favorite joke I've ever made. Okay, let's talk about Tiffany. Tiffany the

Budgenista, a leach, a is America's favorite personal finance educator and author of the New York Times bestseller, Get Good With Money. Through her live richer movement, she's helped over 2 million women save, manage and pay off hundreds of millions of dollars. A former teacher of 10 years with a master's degree in education, Tiffany was instrumental in getting the Budgenista law passed in January of 2019, making financial education mandatory for middle school students in New Jersey. All right, team, we're so excited for this episode and to have Tiffany back as always. Let's go ahead and get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. Robelsis. Robelsis? Really? Yeah, he says it's a pill that's- That's right! Did you know it's also covered by most private insurance plans? Well, I'll definitely be asking my doctor if Robelsis is right for me.

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Not investment advice. Crypto trading involves risk of loss. Kraken's registration details at kraken.com slash legal slash ca dash pru dash disclaimer. Tiffany, welcome back to the show. I'm so excited you're back. Thank you, Tori. I love being here. You know that girl. We were joking. We're TNT. Tiffany and Tori TNT. We're dynamite together. For those who may be new to the show or haven't listened to the first two times you've been on, give us the really quick TLDR that you've answered a million times of who you are and what your work's mission is. I'm a financial educator and New York Times bestselling author or whatever.

Well, you know, there's both of us on here. Netflix like star. Star? Honestly, I'm a teacher turned financial educator that helps women, especially women of color, especially black women get and stay on financial track. And I've been doing it for 15 years and yeah. What have you been up to since we last chatted? I know you've like traveled a ton.

Yes. You said like last time you were here, you're like rich auntie era. Talk to me about that. So honestly, I just, I bought a condo. I don't know if I bought one when I. Yeah, I think you talked about it. I think you were like, I bought it all cash, even though I probably wasn't supposed to. Yeah, I know I did.

And I'm glad that I did. I don't, you know, I'm like, I'm debt free and you know, I had it. And so I'm renovating it now and I'm not doing it in budget. It needs to passion. We're doing all the marbles and all the things, which I love. Fun. And I have just been the last year. Last year, 2023 was actually a really rough year in business.

It was slower than any year I'd had for a very, very long time. But there was some really great lessons and it actually made the team better and it made me a better leader. So I think you're forged from the fire. Yes. And so this year, I mean, it started off great so far, which is good. And honestly, I am just excited about how life is unfolding, that what does it look like to incorporate other interests into my life? Like I want to do another children's book. I want to do a new podcast that's not about business

or personal finance, just for fun. So I'm just exploring things that are like hobbies. Like you remember those hobbies? That's literally I've had so many conversations with like my partner and my friends in the last year or two where I'm like, I don't, I don't have hobbies. I don't know what they are anymore. I don't do anything for just fun. And like, that's not how I want to live my life. Yeah. Yeah. I'm right there with you girl. Well, and this is a question we actually got. So we're going to do some listener submitted questions. We have some questions from Instagram that people submitted. And

one of them was actually very, very similar to kind of what we're talking about, which is like, did either one of us ever imagine writing a bestseller? I did actually. Me too. Right? I know people want you to be like, man, not me, no girl. I literally, Tiffany, I say this all the time. People will ask me, they're like, did you ever imagine that this would be possible? And the answer is a woman as you go, oh my God, no, this is beyond my wildest dreams. And I never thought, and I'm like, no bitch, like I knew I was capable of this.

Like, yes. Yeah. Now, you know, cause you can't, you can't decide the outcome, but we could decide the input. Yeah. You know? And so, but there's literally this picture of me in 2010, I want to say that my first book, which was self published, called The One Week Budget.

I'm at Barnes and Noble. I put my book, because it's self published, they didn't have it. I put my books on the shelf under the personal finance sign and I got dressed in the bathroom like my Sunday's finest and a friend of mine who was a budding photographer, we took all these pictures and I still had them with my book next to all the Susies and the Daves and whatever. And we got in trouble because we're not allowed to do a photo shoot. So literally I'm laughing because as I look at that picture, I think to myself, the manager is behind my friend who's taking pictures yelling at us.

And I'm like, I'll leave in a moment between poses. And so when I put that picture side by side with my book, in my books, Gekko with Money and my newest, the workbook version of it, Made Whole are on the shelves legitimately. And so yes, I saw it because I put myself in that position to be like one day my book will be here and it is. And so I think that that is one of the fastest ways to get to the place where you wanna be is to envision yourself and hopefully to go take pictures

in that place and say, I'll be there too one day. Yeah, I would love to talk with you a little bit about even the word manifest because that's what you're doing and that's what I do. And I think both of us are clearly very good at it. But I think one of the things that really the internet gets wrong about manifestation is we're told, oh, it's like, listen to this, you know, audio frequency or, you know, comment, I'm going to claim this down below. And it's like, that's fine. But manifestation is doing the work and putting in the work to be able to carry out the goals that you have for yourself. Exactly. There's no coincidence. Like if I had not done everything possible. So I, all

my friends that had New York Times bestsellers, I said, what do you know about getting a New York Times bestseller? And they were like, okay, you want to sell at least 10,000 books or you want to make sure people buy them all over the country. You want to make sure you get good press. So there were a few things that I knew. So I said, well then let me do those things to the extent that I could do them. How do I get my audience to buy as many books as possible? I promoted to them. I had a brand new publicist who I was like, these are the shows I need to be on. And I let my audience know, wherever you live around the country, around the world, purchase

books ideally locally. So let's support. So I did all that I could do. And you hope that if the rules are fair, I knew my numbers were enough, but I've known people who've had the numbers and they haven't made the list. So that part is not my control, but I knew that I had checked off all the boxes that I knew. So yeah, you have to do the work on all things. When I think about my business, when I think about anything that's been successful, it has not been accidental. I figure out what I want. I figure out who already has what I want. I ask them, can you share some of those steps with me? And then I do those steps to

the best of my ability. And then I put the work in and they call it the law of detachment, which is like you are in charge of the input and you release yourself from what the output is because that's not on you. Right. And I always want to highlight to your credit as the true community builder you are, the moment you knew the formula for New York Times bestseller, I got a phone call. Here's how you do it. Here's how you replicate. And just so much credit to you. Like you practice what you preach. It's so helpful. But I completely agree. It's just, I think there's two ways I think people get goals wrong is one, they just go, I want this thing. And then they never actually make a plan to achieve it, right? Whether that's personal

finance or something else, right? Oh, I want to be a New York Times bestseller someday. Okay, well, what are you doing to actually get yourself there? Because the road from never writing anything to New York Times Bestseller is a long one and requires a lot of steps, right? So I think that's one thing is like, I say this in my book, a goal without a plan is just a wish, right? You have to have an actual plan to get there. And then I think the second thing is just like, when you're progressing towards that

goal, whether again, debt free, New York Times bestseller, like building a business, I think it's just so easy to get these roadblocks and think, oh, this is impossible. I don't want to do this. And you and I of course have hit multiple dozens, hundreds of those roadblocks of like, things telling us, oh, you can't do it. And it's like, no, I believe I can, I know I can. I've already got it. So let's go out and get it. Yeah. No, it's true. And also too, I think that you touched on something that, and because you've texted me, you were doing something really successful on social where you were using like this automated system. And I was like, oh, this is great. We still are. It's going great for us.

Yeah. Right. And then so Tori saw that I think like, you know, like I had commented in their comments and right away you text me, you're like, girl, do you want me to hook you up with the person who helped me do? I love that because that is also part of it is that the fastest, to me, the fastest way to success is usually through other people. It's like, why should you figure out something if I know, you know, like, let me share what I've learned, you know, that like, at any moment, Tori's going to know something that I don't know, and you're willing to share. At any moment, I'm going to know something that you might

not know and I'm willing to share. And so it also is that it's important to build community, like in the community, and then reach out and ask for help, but also to be of help to the community. Yeah. And I'll say as one last point to this question, if I ever pictured myself as a bestseller, yes, but like not for a fucking personal finance book. Like that was not part of my plan. Like I literally wrote and we've talked about this in our marketing. Like I wrote when I was like seven or eight, I want to write a book someday.

And for me, I was just like obsessed with reading and writing and thought it was going to be like a novel because that's all of the things I was reading. And so I think that's the other thing with goals is that they can shape and shift as you grow older, because of course, eight year old me wasn't reading, wasn't reading the books that you're writing now. But like, wasn't, you know, didn't know, oh, a personal finance expert is a career out there. That's a potential possibility for you. So like your goals should and could ebb and flow and change as you get older and you have more information and your circumstances change. Exactly. I love that question. Let's go to our next one, which is also related to like growing a business.

Tiffany, how did you know it was time to quit your job and take your business full time? How did you know it was time to quit your job and take your business full time? So my job closed down. I didn't. Some of us don't have choices. So it was the recession and it was a daycare center where I was working. I was a teacher. And although I had my master's in education, I really loved working with the little ones. They were nonprofit based.

They lost their funding. So three days, it was a summertime, three days before school was supposed to open back up, they said, hey, we never got our funding. And so there's just no school. And I was like, wait, like forever? And so I had started the Budget Nista in 2007, eight, I was doing it as a kind of like volunteer work. I was kind of bored teaching, like I love teaching, but after a while it gets

to be really easy, you know? And plus I taught preschool so their kids were napping for like an hour or two every day. And I'm like, well, in that time, I was kind of like, oh, well, what else would I do? I love financial education. And so I started to create what I thought was going to be a nonprofit because I'm like, I teach, I'll create this nonprofit while I donate my time to teach financial education in my community. And so as I was building that, I wrote my first little book, One Week Budget.

Well, let me not say little because women always do that. Now, I wrote my first book. It was self-published, the one week budget while the kids slept. And so it wasn't until I lost my job that I was looking for a new job, but it was the new school year. So they weren't hiring because you have to have your teachers before the school year starts. And it was then that my friend was like, well, you've been helping people with their money. What if you started to charge for that? And I was like, can I do that? And so that's really what it was. I'm actually pretty risk adverse,

not as much now, but that Tiffany then was very risk adverse, but it was such a blessing to lose such a safe job because it literally rewired my brain about what safety looked like. It was like, actually a job is not safe. You betting on you is safe, because at least you know what's happening. And so that's how it happened for me. I just want to call it what you just said, like betting on you is safe. Because I think we are told as women all of the time to not trust yourself, to not trust your own instincts, to always pick the stable option. And I've told the story before, but I wasn't laid off or my job didn't end. But it was a very similar thing where like as my business was getting

more success, it was very clear that it was time for me to leave even internally at the company. Like things were just getting bad and it was very obvious that it was time to go. But because I had parents who were, you know, always picking the stable choice, which I was thankful for, I grew up feeling like entrepreneurship is a risk. Going full time is a risk. And I had my parents calling me and saying, you need to keep your job. Like you need to do everything you can to keep your job. And of course now, like tomorrow, my dad's flying out to tour the New York Stock Exchange with me. So I like, I love that for you. I know I get to call him every once in a while when I'm feeling

a little petty and be like, remember that advice and how terrible it was. But because they had always chosen the stable choice, which was yeah, stable paycheck 401k health insurance and you know, that felt like such a risk to me, even though it wasn't. So I I had always chosen the stable choice, which was stable paycheck 401k health insurance. And that felt like such a risk to me, even though it wasn't. So I actually, I was at an event last night and got asked a similar question. And I would love your take on this. I think there's like two kinds of entrepreneurs or like potential entrepreneurs. I think one of them is the, okay, before I quit, I need to have every duck in a row.

I need to have the safety net and then the safety net for the safety net and then the backup, backup, backup safety net. And that's very much me, which was like, okay, I'm going to grow my business. I'm going to get it to a point where it's already making money. It has momentum. I have 100K in the bank, right? My 100K at 25. That was like the permission slip I needed to quit my job. And only then, and even really with a huge asterisk, I don't know if I ever felt 100% comfortable, but it was like, okay, I needed to completely feel prepped and ready to do it. I think there's the second kind of entrepreneur that's like fling themselves off the cliff

and figure it out on the way down. That desperate energy actually kind of works for them because it's either like, it's sink or swim. It's like, I either figure this out, and I figure out the parachute or I fall flat on my face. I don't know. Does that ring true for you? Yeah, I think so. I'm definitely not a fling myself off. I'm a nervous Nellie. I mean, ideally I wouldn't have left teaching if I had the choice, unless I had all my ducks in a row. But now I feel like because I'm more confident in my abilities, that I'm more of a hybrid

because I certainly will try something new as long as I have a little bit of reserves. I'm like, you know what, let's try this thing. It might not work, but you know what, we've got a few months worth of savings. Let's just see how this goes." And so I think over time, as you grow your confidence, you can adapt more risk because risk looks different when you are more prepared in the broader sense. So I'm not the same Tiffany from 15 years ago. I've got better relationships.

I've got additional knowledge. I know how to make money. And so I can take a more calculated risk than I could before where it's literally a risk risk. Well, and that trust in yourself is huge. I remember thinking, oh, if I'm getting this much done and this is just a side hustle, imagine the possibility of if I'm all in. Just from a time standpoint, wow, I get to not have to work 40 hours a week

for somebody else. I get to take that time and work for myself and it's already going this well. Well, imagine what happens if I have much more time, much more resources, much more energy. Yes. One of the things I say that I love about having a business is it grows you up so much. God, yes. Right?

I'm not going to lie, you ever get off the phone, you're like, I'm a bad ass. Yeah. Right? You ever get off the phone, you're like, you rock the thing. Often, yes. And you're like, right? And you're like, yo, look at me. I'm like, nobody does this shit better than I do.

Yeah. Okay. And the thing is, I was highly insecure in high school, like so many of us were. I was, how can I be as small? How can I shrink? Just because I didn't have the confidence in myself, so many teenagers don't, but entrepreneurship, my therapist calls it corrective experiences, which is you tell yourself, I'm not a good speaker, but then you speak and you do well.

And you're like, wait, that's not true. Oh, That experience corrected your thinking. And so I used to tell myself, I'm not decisive. And I'm like, really girl? Because you make decisions all day. So I'm like, oh, my brain's like, actually, let's re-correct that experience because that's not true. The rewiring. Yes.

And so like entrepreneurship has all these things I would tell myself about myself, or maybe the world has told me about me. You know, like, oh, as a woman, you're not able as a woman of color. This is that you're all that is like, yeah, this is a lie because I'm out here doing it. Like, even for me, there were lies I told myself, like if I'm on the cover of my book, it won't sell. I remember talking. Yeah, I think the first time you came on the show, I remember that just broke my heart. Yes, I can't I can't be on a cover of a money book.

Well, 260,000 books later, I corrected my own experience. And so yeah, that's that is one of my favorite parts. It's not for everyone. But one of my favorite parts of entrepreneurship is that it has grown me up in such a way and given me such confidence in my abilities by showing me I am capable and able of doing anything that I put my mind to. Yep. Couldn't agree more.

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Megatank. It's a Canon printer. It comes with, like, two grand worth of ink, prints me over 7,700 color pages. Megatank. Megawatt? Listen to the voice in your head and get a Canon Megatank printer We have a voicemail that we're going to go ahead and listen to. Somebody asking about a credit line increase.

Okay. Hi, Tori and Tiffany. I am wondering about increasing the available credit on my Capital One card. So I have the Capital One venture card for travel and for the points and they keep sending me emails about reevaluating my income for a potential credit increase. And I'm not interested in using the increased credit, but I've been thinking more about is it worth getting that increased limit so that my ratio of credit usage goes down. If I use the credit card spending the same amount and I have a bigger

limit, I'd have that smaller percentage of credit usage. So my question is, is it worth the credit check that would happen in order to get that increased credit? Or will they do a credit check for that? Thank you. Tiffani audience. Because the question she asked and how she asked it, lets me know that, because people- It's a very educated question. I just love that. I was like, oh, this is an educated person. So one, yeah, I just say, well, kudos for understanding that yes, there's a huge benefit to being able to, if you have the discipline not to spend more of increasing your limit, because 30% of your score is based upon your utilization.

So how much you are using versus how much you could be using. So if you have like, say like you have a credit card balance or a credit card limit of a hundred dollars and right now you consistently keep $50 on that card, that's a 50% utilization, that's too high. But if let's just say they want to double it from a hundred dollar limit to a $200 limit, now that same $50 is a 25% utilization. That is much, much, much better. And you will see a score increase. So that's, that's the first part that yeah.

So it's great if they want to raise your credit limit. Now here's the thing. Not all credit card companies need to check your credit to do so. So ask that question because if they're already making you the offer, typically they're going to check typically if they're going to check your credit, if you make the ask like, Hey, I would love to raise my limit. They might check your score. So ask, are you going to check my score in order to do so? Or is this something that you can just do based upon the way I'm navigating my card in such a healthy way? Because this is an indicator that you pay, they feel safe with you, they're willing to

issue an additional line, like increase your limit. And so if they're not going to check your score, and you know, I trust yourself, you trust yourself not to overspend, then go for it. And even if they are going to check your score, it might be offset by the fact that your utilization will go down. And so you'll get those points back anyway, as long as you're not trying to buy a house or a car in like a month or so. Right. Yeah, I mean, I plus one all of that. And to your point, we don't know the exact trade-off, right?

The credit bureaus are never telling us, if you do this, it'll increase your score this many points. It's way more veiled than that. So it's hard to say, okay, if you do a credit check, but then your utilization goes down, what is that actually going to do? It depends on a lot of different factors, including like what's your credit score right now. But yeah, if you can get a credit line increase without a credit check, hell yeah, take it. Just don't use it because it'll boost your score. Yeah.

Cool. Great question. All right. Next voicemail. Hi, Tori and Tiffany. I am a fellow Seattleite and also a student of finance. And I have been dying to ask this question ever since I became a part of the Her First 100K community. What are your best tips and tricks for a student like myself to kind of win the credit card

race and navigate through student loans and things like that and still come out on top, maybe even graduating with that first 100K? Oh, wow. This is like a solve my entire financial life credit question. I was going to say, oh, she said, how do you do open heart surgery and go? Solve my entire financial life quite a question She said how do you do open-heart surgery and go Without anesthesia by the way, I Let me let me reinterpret this question maybe with something that we can answer which is like, okay If I'm a student if I'm in college, how do I set myself up financially the best that I can?

So one back in the day back in my day In back in my day, in order to establish credit, you would have to get a store card. Thank God you don't have to do that anymore. You have to understand that there are different types of ways to borrow. There's reoccurring, which are credit cards, and then there's installment, which is your student loan. So you already have your installment borrowing down because you have your student loans. So I would look for, you might have what they call a thin file. So you might not actually get approved for a regular credit card, which is fine. You

can look for a secured card if you don't get approved for a regular credit card. And so a secured card is a card that's secured with your money, sometimes two, $300. And then they say, here is your credit card with a $300 limit. So if you don't pay us, we're just going to take the money that we put up in a money market account or a savings account where we have secured your money. And then the key really is to win the game is to actually not use your card for real, for real. You're going to do for fake.

So you're going to put your cheapest bill, your $9 gym membership, something reoccurring on that card. You're going to leave that card at home and then you're going to have your checking account pay off that bill every month in full automatically. And if you start that freshman year, you do the all the way to senior year, you're going to have amazing credit because it'll look like, Oh my God, she pays off every single month. And so your score is going to be awesome because bad credit leads to an expensive life. So your score is going to be awesome. You're going to be able to get your first apartment more easily.

You're going to be able to get a car, you know, more easily. You're going to be able to get so many things. It'll cost you less because the interest rates will be better for you. Now I'm going to let Tori answer, like, how do, how do you save more money to get to your first 100K? I mean, I don't know about that should be your aim by the time you graduate college. I mean, that's not crazy, but to me, I'm focusing on like, let me just focus on the credit part. But yeah, if you do that, you'll have an amazing credit score and be able to borrow to your heart's content as needed when you graduate college.

Yeah. Clearly this person is incredibly ambitious, which we love. I will say, slow your roll, girl. Everybody told me this and then I didn't fucking listen. But when I was in college, everybody told me, enjoy these four years, because you won't get them back. And then I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I am, but also I'm stressed about a job.

Truly, everything's going to work out the way it's going to work out. Like I know this is like not financial advice, but isn't it though? Take a deep breath, like truly just, it sounds like even that you're thinking about this, you're doing things right already. So yes, exactly what Tiffany said is what I did unintentionally, which is like, I just didn't have a lot of money and I had my cute little discover card that I still own and just like, yeah, I would go out to eat twice with friends and could only eat appetizers and that was what went on the credit card

and then I would just pay that off from my checking account. So yeah, that's exactly right. I would say focus in college, your goal in college is to, personally have the best time possible and make great friends and make great memories. Professionally, right, your job is to, you know, personally have the best time possible and make great friends and make great memories professionally, right? Your job is to set yourself up for success. And that can mean for me, my senior year, it was going and having informational interviews with every single person I could possibly talk to. Like I made a secret goal with myself of like, okay, once a week you're gonna do a

coffee or a 15-minute phone call with somebody whose,, okay, once a week, you're going to do a coffee or a 15 minute phone call with somebody whose, you know, career you admire or who works at a job you think you might want to do someday. And that was a really great way for me to just kind of start feeling like I was getting myself in a place to think about my career. The other thing too, is I attended any free event on campus that I felt like I could meet somebody, I could meet somebody, I could get some new information. There are so many incredible free things that your college

puts on all of the time that you will never get to do again, right? Because when you're a college student, that's like your ultimate card of like, I'm a college student, can I have 15 minutes of your time? Or I'm going to go to this auditorium and I know this person will be there and I'll pick their brain. So I think take advantage of all of those opportunities. And in terms of financially, if you can graduate college without going into debt, because you were mentioning like the student debt dance, if there's any way you can get out of college debt free, that is going to help you hit your hundred K that's going to help with everything else. So whether that is, you know, merit scholarships, one of my favorite tips that I wish more people talked about is like

departmental scholarships. So when I went to college, I got two degrees, I got an organizational communication degree, which was like marketing with less math, that was in the communication school. And then I got a theater degree. And I got departmental specific scholarships. I got a communication scholarship and I got a theater scholarship. And I actually had to audition for the theater scholarship before I was even before I entered university. And I only knew that because I had done some digging. I had perused the website and figured out, oh, you can audition for this theater scholarship. And I think with communication scholarships, like there wasn't a lot that was offered and it was more like specific need based,

but I think I got like $500 a semester, which doesn't sound like a lot, but like that's better than nothing. So that's books, right, right. So start figuring out like, again, if you can graduate college debt free, there's scholarships and there's there's some finagling you can do. And if you do have to take out loans, try not to do there's some finagling you can do. And if you do have to take out loans, try not to do them from a private institution, try to do federal loans because those are going to be more flexible and they're also open to student loan forgiveness versus the private loans. I don't know, Tiffany, anything to add there?

No, I love that. And I think my favorite part is just like, use that, I'm in college card as much as possible. Yeah, because you don't know what you have until you don't have it. Yeah. People will sit down with you. They'll give you the space and the grace and the yes, I'd love to pour in. Yes, I'd love to have 15 minutes. If you're you know, it's different being 40 being like, can I pick your brain?

People are like, no, girl, pay me, pay me. Yes. So lean in, lean in, lean in. So and good luck to you. You're already on such a great path if you're here listening to Tori. I know. Even the fact you're asking about this question, I'm like, oh man, you're fine. I'm not worried about you. You're fine. And I know it, because I'm the same way, even me saying that to you, you're going to be like, no, I'm not fine. You're fine. You're fine. You're good. You're doing all the right things. All right. We got one last voicemail.

Hi Tori. My name is Marenia. I'm a big fan of yours. I'm 22 years old, so trying to figure out how I should be budgeting, how I should be prioritizing my investing and how I should be saving up for retirement, all that good stuff. So along that vein, I wanted to ask you a question about investing in land slash real estate. I have a friend who claims that instead of maxing out her retirement account, she is going to be buying land and just watching it appreciate in value faster and a lot more than it would be if it were just sitting in a 401k account. So I wanted to ask you on your opinion on that.

If I have the ability to, should I be investing in land as opposed to, I don't know, putting that money into the stock market or putting that money into a retirement account? Huh. First of all, just, I don't know, Krista, we didn't even plan this, but all of these are like 22 year old, ambitious as fuck, like props to everybody calling in today. That's fucking incredible. Tiffany, why does this remind me of your credit card scam? Yeah, I was going to say when you said, she said my friend.

I'm like, I know, I'm like MLM is this like, well, I'll say this. You get this question a lot, like real estate or the market. I'm sure both. Why not both? I was going to say both of them. B-O-F both. Right? Because here's the thing that typically what happens is that just like with anything, there's

a seesaw effect. Like when the market's up, real estate is maybe not as strong. When real estate is strong, maybe the market's not up. So maybe the question to ask yourself is where to start. Because I did, I want to say my 401k, that kind of traditional investing first. And now, you know, I had three properties, I just sold one, but later on in life, I started to invest into real estate, not heavy, you know, just like if something comes up and it makes sense, I lean in.

And what I love is that I get to see, certainly because I live in New Jersey and real estate appreciates much faster and like on the coast than it does typically other places of the country, I have seen like I bought my house that I live in now. It was a foreclosure. I bought it for 180 in 2017. It's now worth 500,000. So that's likely better than the market, but there are places and I've seen during the recession, I purchased a condo

for $220,000 right before the recession and then ended up losing it because it depreciated down to 150. So if all my money was in real estate and depending on the market, I could get rich or I could be broke. And so I don't like the idea of all your money ever being in one space, like period. And so at 22, it is easier to get into 401k because your job probably offers it. You could do your 50 bucks a month or whatever than it is to like jump feet first into real estate.

And so I would just like, I would start simply, your 401k is right there. IRAs are right there. Then learn more about because what land you're going to buy says where, where, where Ohio? Would you like research? Do you want to live there? Also, like, sorry to anybody listening from Ohio, but like, I personally don't want to live in Ohio. I've been to Ohio.

It's lovely. I'm like, no, no. That's the thing that like that to me, real estate takes a little bit more money typically, and it takes a little more knowledge. So accumulate that first before you start jumping into that space. But 401k doesn't require as much knowledge as like, here's my hundred bucks. Here's the, you know, I want to put my, my in a mutual fund that mirrors or ETF that mirrors the S&P 500.

You don't need to know nearly as much. So that would be my suggestion. And before people in Ohio get pissed, anybody who's buying land in Ohio, you're not buying it likely in like Columbus or Cincinnati. You're buying it in the middle of nowhere, right? Yeah. Yeah. I again, plus one, everything you just said, I think also putting all of your eggs in one basket for anything is not good, right? Putting all of your money in a high yield savings account, not good, right? Like a high yield savings account is meant for short term

goals you also need to invest. Putting all of your money in investments and not having a high yield savings account for an emergency or something else, that's not good, right? Saying, okay, I'm 22 and I'm going to put all of my money in real estate. Like, that's especially and like not doing my 401k. That just makes me super duper nervous. If you want to buy land, great, but maybe I'm reading too much into it. It doesn't sound like you want to. It sounds like your friend has told you this is what she's doing

and it's making you question everything, which is fine. If that's something you actually want to do, great, something to explore, but it's not the I'm going to opt out of a 401k or opt out of other things so that I can do this. I think that that's potentially really damaging. So yeah, first ask yourself, do I want to be a landowner or is this just something that somebody told me is a smart idea? I infamously do not own property. It works for me at this stage in my life. I'm 29. I'm getting to the point where like the house itch is happening, but like also land in Seattle

or land in Seattle is expensive yet alone a house, right? So for me, it's, it's, you know, not on my radar right now because it's just, it doesn't fit the stage in my life I'm in. So actually ask yourself, like, do I want to own land? And if I'm using it as an investment, like, is, like, it doesn't have to be this is not the only investment. You can literally invest in the stock market and then also potentially buy land or whatever else you want to do. But yeah, it sounds like this is a, I heard from a friend that this might be lucrative, should I do it. I'm like, who knows?

Who knows? Yeah. And there's other ways to invest, right? Because you and I both have businesses. This is an investment as well. You know, 100% the number one investment is always yourself. I'm just leaving that there. Preach.

Okay. All right, Tiffany. So we got a lightning round really quick. And I would love your take on these questions. You ready? Okay. Okay. Used car paid for in cash or nicer car with a payment?

Used car paid for in cash. I would agree. However, if you are at a place financially where you're fine and this is just a car that's fun for you, great. Nice car with a payment. It's very similar to your house thing where you're just like, no, I'm just going to do the thing that might not be financially smart because that's what I want to do. Cool. Is there such a thing as too many credit cards? Yes, if you're using all of them and you are not paying them off. But if you're responsible, then I mean, do you? I got eight credit cards. I just don't use them all.

Exactly. I've got like three that I use. So yeah, the rest are in a drawer. What if your income is too much for a Roth IRA? Girl, they call it backdoor Roth IRA. Go ahead and ask your financial advisor about that. Or it literally looks like rolling over money from one place to another, but through the back door. If you don't know how to do it, I mean, you definitely don't want to do it on your own. You typically have to work with a financial institution to do so.

Weirdest budgeting hack you've ever tried or like weirdest way you've tried to save money. I'm thinking like weirdest way you've tried to save money? I'm gonna think the weirdest way. When I was really, really broke, I used to save like foil bag, plastic baggies. The little ketchup packets. Yes, I used to literally go to parties because I'm like, ooh, is there food involved? Yes, cha-ching for dinner. I don't have to pay for it.

So yeah, I just, I remember, well, I think I would say not weirdest, but I used to bring a calculator with me to the grocery store, add up all of my food before I got to the cashier because I didn't want to be embarrassed by not having enough money to put, to have to put things back. And this is pretty like calculator on an iPhone, right? So you actually brought a calculator with you. Yes, yes. Yeah.

I love that. That's lovely. I think mine, this is like such a weird one, Alaska Airlines shout out used to do a, like, if you submitted surveys, like they worked with a marketing company and then every survey you filled out, you got like 500 Alaska miles. And so on my commute to work on the light rail, I would just sit there and you know, they'd be like, how old are you? Like, and so I just like, you know, in my free time and then some of the ones, you know, you didn't qualify for and I was like, shoot. But yeah, it was like, I think I got probably a couple thousand

miles. I love that. Just, just like a 22 on my commute, plugging it in when in my 15 minute train ride. I used to always do studies. Oh, I'm like, yes, I have sleep apnea for $2,000. Like, you're gonna pay me $2,000? Yeah, I have hemorrhoids. What's the cream again? Yes, I do have trouble sitting down. It hurts. Didn't think I'd ever say the word hemorrhoid on this podcast, but here we are. All right. I can't let you go without talking to you about the workbook. And when we say workbook, we do not mean like little cute pamphlet. We mean like 200 pages full like teaching background. It's on full display here. So walk us through first off what your concept of financial wholeness is. And you might remember if you've listened to our previous episodes, but give us a refresh and then talk to us about what

does this workbook help you to do? So financial wholeness, which is what the workbook is based off of, are these 10 components to your financial life that create the foundation you need for the rest of your financial life. So that's budgeting, savings, debt, credit, income, investing, insurance, your financial team, your net worth, and estate planning. That if you master these 10 things, there's nothing you can't do with your money. And so when I wrote Get Good With Money, the original book, it was the 10 simple steps to financial wholeness.

And it did so well, but people were like, I wish I had a place to do the work alongside of the lesson. So the teacher in me was like, well, why not create a comprehensive workbook? Because the get good money is like a textbook, a workbook that you can do these 10 steps. And so you get to learn the step, you get to see it visually represented, and then you get a space to do the work as you're learning the step. And so it is just my way of being like, let's really solidify these lessons into your conscious and subconscious

so you can change your financial life. And our researcher mentioned this concept of emotional housekeeping that she really loved. Can you define that for us and talk a bit more about it? So when you have, I think that it's really important that before you start doing tactical work, that you have to like, almost I call it like, it's like when you're seasoning food, you have to like season your brain.

Because if you can't shift your thinking, you're going to go right back to what you know. And then you're going to go right back to those financial habits. And so a lot of those things like shame and fear and the judgment you've brought with you because you've heard people tell you you're terrible, you know, and people who don't even know you, you know, we follow some folks online and you know, you hear them talk so terribly about people who've made financial choices that may not be in their best interest.

Dave Ramsey. Uh huh. Right? I'll say it. I'll say it. We call it, we call it Voldemort over at Brown Abition, my podcast. Yeah, I just star out all the vowels in his name. Like it's a curse word.

And so, and so like that is not helpful. And so I thought, okay, let's open up the book with like, let us release all of that stuff because shame shields solutions. So that way when you learn the thing, you're actually able to not only do it, but stay there and maintain the new tips and tools that I've shown you. When I love it's a one-two punch, it's like, okay, get good with money, made whole. It's like an Avengers team together. It's like Batman and Robin. We've got like superhero and superhero sidekick, which I think is so impactful.

Yes. It's so surreal. Like when I went to Barnes and Nobles and to see both of them next to each other, I'm like, OMG. And my pictures on both of them next to each other, I'm like, OMG. And my pictures on both of them. Your name twice. Yeah. Yeah.

It's just so, although like I said, I put my books on Barnes and Noble over 10 years ago, 15 years ago, thinking one day my book will be here, but it still does feel surreal to see yourself at a target. Yeah, it does. Not just that, but to see myself next to like Tory and like Jamila and like other people in the space that I'm like, I know these women. Like, you're looking at this book. I know her. She's here and I'm not going to be moving all my books to the front. I'm like, girl, I'll buy it.

Oh, I literally, I think the first time Vivian, the Arush BFF, I think the first time she saw her book in a store was I called her at Barnes and Noble four days before her release date and I FaceTimed her and I'm like, look who it is. And she's like, wait, I haven't seen it yet. And I'm like, yeah. And of course, you know, I go to Dave Ramsey's book and I cover it with hers and I cover it with yours. And yeah, it's just like, it's so cool. I just love that though. Yeah. We are just, there's like this amazing takeover that like, nah, we actually don't have to take personal finance the way you've been giving it, that we get to have a say in how we receive education in this space.

Well, and it's starting to finally look like what, one, I want the world to look like, but two, what the world actually does look like, which is black and brown people and queer people and women. And like, it's just so cool to finally go into the business or finance section and have other options other than fucking Rich Dad Poor Dad and Dave. Yes.

Yeah, it's great. Thank you as always for being here. Made Whole is the workbook. Tell us where we can find it as well as how we can connect with you. Well, I am the budgetista at all the platforms and budgetista.com. And if you want Made Whole, it's available at madewholeworkbook.com. Amazing. Thank you as always for being here.

You're my favorite person to have back. Well, thank you for having me. Thank you, Tiffany, for joining us for this fun TNT Q&A episode. Tiffany's new workbook, Made Whole, is out wherever you get your books and makes a perfect companion to her original book, Get Good With Money. You can buy both wherever you get your books. Thank you as always for being here. We appreciate you sharing the show if it connected with you and subscribing wherever you're listening right now. And if you want to submit a voicemail for your own question, you can also do so down below and we'll potentially use it in a future

episode and I may answer your question. So if you have a question about money, about running a business, about paying off debt, about investing, about something else, feel free to leave us a voicemail and we hope to talk to you soon. Thanks for being here, Financial Feminists. Have a great ass week. Talk to you later. Bye. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, associate producer Tamesha Grant, researched by Ariel Johnson, audio and video engineering by Alyssa Medcalf, marketing and operations by Karina Patel, Amanda LeFeu, Elizabeth McCumber, Masha Bakhmakiyeva, Taylor Cho, Kailyn Sprinkle, Sasha Bonar, Claire Karonen, Darrell Ann Ingman, and Janelle Reisner.

Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting this show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit FinancialFeministPodcast.com.