Financial Feminist - 177. How a New Generation of Athletes Are Using NIL to Build Financial Security with Annie Bailey

Episode Date: August 8, 2024

Money, sports, and women — a powerful combo. In this episode of Financial Feminist, Tori Dunlap chats with Annie Bailey, Chief Operating Officer and Equity Partner, RISE Sports Advisors and former lacrosse star about the changing world of women in sports and finance. They break down how female athletes can score big both on and off the field. From the transformative impact of NIL (name, image, likeness) deals, and the persistent gender disparities in sports compensation, to long-term financial goals — Annie shares pro tips on managing money, building a brand, and securing your future. Whether you're a sports fan, aspiring athlete, or just looking to level up your finances, this episode is a must-listen. Annie’s links: Website: https://www.rise-advisors.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rise_advisors/  Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at  https://herfirst100k.com/financial-feminist-show-notes/177-how-a-new-generation-of-athletes-are-using-nil-to-build-financial-security-with-annie-bailey/  Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Special thanks to our sponsors: Thrive Causemetics Get an exclusive 10% off your first order at thrivecausemetics.com/FFPOD Squarespace Go to www.squarespace.com/FFPOD to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase. Masterclass Get an additional 15% off any annual membership at masterclass.com/FFPOD. Indeed Visit indeed.com/FFPOD to get a seventy-five dollar sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I think as women too, we are trained from the society around us that we should take care of everyone else and not ourselves. So what can I do to make sure you're comfortable even if that's sacrificing my own comfort? We have to completely rewire our thought process around that. Hi Financial Feminist, welcome to the show. I am thrilled to see you. Thank you as always for being here. If you're an oldie, buddy, goodie, welcome back. And if you're new here,

hi, my name is Tori. I fight the patriarchy by making you rich. We have a podcast, we have a New York Times, a ceiling book. We have tons of free resources online and we have over 5 million social media followers. Today on the show is going to be a great guest. But first we got to talk about women in, because really that's what we're talking about on today's show. Yes, the Caitlin Clark effect is real, but let's talk about the incredible women who have been at this for decades who have paved the way, especially black and brown women.

Everything from Billie Jean King to Serena Williams to the World Cup women's soccer team demanding equitable pay. Like this is such an incredible time for women's sports because of not just incredible players right now, but incredible women who have been at this for a very long time. And this is my direct plea. Sue Bird, Megan Rapinoe, please come on the show. I'm a Seattle girl II have my together shirt

I'm not wearing it today, but everyone watches women's sports. I have it. I Love you both We would love to have you. I would absolutely die. Also Abby Wambach who just followed me on Instagram also. Hello Megan Sue come on the show. Thank you. Would love to have you. Okay, Annie Bailey today's yes Let's talk about her. Annie Bailey has a passion for developing relationships and creatively fostering marketing and entrepreneurial opportunities.

And Annie thrives to find success for those she represents. As a 2017 graduate at the University of Colorado at Boulder with a BA in broadcast journalism and communications, Annie brings her dedication, work ethic, and tenacity from the Division I lacrosse team to each project she collaborates on. Annie has a passion to help each Rise client create a successful and sustainable athlete enterprise.

So what does Annie do? She's managing a lot of the finances of your favorite athletes and of people who are rising in the athletics space. So you might be thinking, what does NIL have to do with me if I'm not a collegiate athlete? I think more than ever with the way the world is changing so fast and how in the athletic space. So you might be thinking, what does NIL have to do with me if I'm not a collegiate athlete? I think more than ever with the way the world is changing so fast and how much personal branding has become a part of our careers, it's really important to talk about the importance of protecting your name and how to make sure that you're the one profiting from it and not somebody

else. So we talked about how Annie got into wealth management and what it is and isn't, how Annie and her team work with athletes and individuals on building a financial legacy, how the change in NIL rules is helping women across the sports world, and how NIL relates to you even if you are an athlete. We also talked about the Caitlin Clark effect, we talked about women especially in sports, and still the pay inequities that we're seeing between male and female athletics. So without further ado, let's go ahead and get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. This episode of Financial Feminist is sponsored in part by ADT, indeed Thrive Cosmetics and Squarespace. ADT spends all their seconds helping protect all of yours.

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at thrivecosmetics.com slash ffpod. Build a beautiful website to get your message out into the world with Squarespace. Go to squarespace.com slash ffpod to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase. This episode is brought to you by LEGO Fortnite. LEGO Fortnite is the ultimate survival crafting game found within Fortnite. It's is the ultimate survival crafting game found within Fortnite. It's not just Fortnite Battle Royale with minifigures. It's an entirely new experience that combines the best of LEGO Play and Fortnite, created to give players of all ages, including kids and families, a safe, digital space to play in. Download

Fortnite on consoles, PC, cloud services, or Android, and play LEGO Fortnite for free, rated ESRB E10+. ["Eleven Pets"] I love that like very, I don't know, European. It's like for those not on YouTube, it is a what a horse and where are you at? I'm like trying to figure out it's like a portrait of a guy riding a horse. Somebody training the horse. I don't know. Tell me more. Yeah. So well, I'm in my husband's office, so it's very manly, which is very masculine. Yeah. But my family owns race horses. So that was actually my so cool. Yeah. So that was my grandpa's and

when he passed away, I snagged the painting and hung it up in here. So I would, it's technically illegal, but we would go to there's Emerald Downs here near Seattle and Auburn, Washington. And starting at seven, I would bet on them and then tell my mom what I wanted to do. So that was a whole science. It was a female jockey. Yes, I'm betting gray horse. I always bet on the gray horse, which is not what you're supposed to do. And then my mom and I's logic is if they pooped, they'd be lighter. So that's, those are good. Those that's very logical. I know a lot of people who only bet on the grays and female Jackie, you always got to always got to cheer for the fellow ladies. So yeah, it

ended up working out all right. And then I got worse as I made it more serious as I started getting older. My Yeah, I got worse off. And the joke was always like, 10 year old me would bet more or not bet more, but would make more than my dad who would do these like super complicated bets. So it was very funny. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I the more you know, the harder it is because you overthink everything. Yep. It's all luck anyways. So totally. We're so thrilled to have you. We love asking people what their first money memory is.

When is the first time you remember thinking about money? Yeah. So, I don't have a specific like, oh, I remember thinking about money here, but I do know growing up, money was always prevalent. I come from on both sides of my family, maternal and paternal side, family businesses. So on my father's side, my brother is actually fifth generation right now, taking over our family business. And my grandfather is the one who kind of expanded it and instilled just like a lot of the growth and hard work that came from that.

And then on my maternal side, my grandpa grew up in an incredibly poor household, dirt floors, you know, shoes with holes in them, no no soles in his shoes. And he actually hitchhiked to work and eventually purchased the business that he hitchhiked to and now still runs it. And it's turned into an incredibly successful business. So from the time I can remember the value of hard work and appreciating the team around you and just knowing the value of a dollar has always been kind of intrinsically in me. You're only as good as those you surround yourself with and so got to have a good team and take care of that team and make sure that they know that they're valued and appreciated and all that good stuff.

And you played lacrosse in college, you have a lot of experience as a student athlete, navigating the world financially. What brought you then into the world of wealth management? Yeah, it's kind of a strange story. I never had a passion for what I wanted to do after school. I knew that sports were really all I knew. I didn't know if you know if I was gonna be a sports broadcaster or some way I wanted them to still be in my life after I graduated. And my boss, and he's now my business partner, let me intern directly

for him as his executive assistant when I was in college. And he owned a training company for college athletes, high school athletes, a lot of professional athletes, and saw the broken system of how many professional athletes go broke within two or three years of being retired or even when they're playing, they're actively broke as they're playing and just how broken that whole culture is. So he started RISE, which is where I currently work. And the whole mission is just to educate, connect, empower these athletes to take care

of their money, be able to speak in a business setting, know what to do with their money, how to invest it, where to invest it. So that's kind of how I fell into it. And it's become totally my passion at this point. For the civilian listening, what is a wealth manager and like, what do you do on a daily basis for clients? Yes. So, a wealth manager would be like financial planning and portfolio management.

At Rise, we actually are a multifamily office, so we do a little bit more than just wealth planning. That is a big part of what we do. We have a whole division dedicated to budgeting, investing, all that stuff. But the big piece of what we do is just education, making sure that athletes can speak on their own two feet, serve on boards.

And we, like I said, we have a wealth management division, but we also work with a lot of other financial investment firms, Goldman Sachs, Seafold, places like that, that take care of the money. But we also work with a lot of other financial investment firms, Goldman Sachs, Stiefel, places like that, that take care of the money. And we just help advise on the best way to handle their money, where to put it. And if they're cautious, if they're conservative, if they're risky, however they want to handle that. biggest question that I want to dive into that I think is really interesting for athletics,

for the kind of student athlete to professional pipeline is NIL, name, image and likeness. It's so interesting about how much has changed in the last couple years. Can we first define what it is and then talk about how it might relate to not only athletes, but other professions as well? Yes. So in 2021 is when it officially changed. And NIL is basically just a student athlete can benefit from the use of their name, image, and likeness. So previous or prior to 2021, a school was just the sole person benefiting off of that. They were the only ones making money and it was illegal for a student to see any of that. Now, they can be sponsored, they can get paid, they can have marketing

deals and they can participate in that success that the school also gets to participate in when they have a star athlete like that. Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest transition I've seen is, you know, you have student athletes who are also, you know, influencers or spokespeople who can, you know, profit off of sales of their jerseys. And prior to this, prior to a couple of years ago, you couldn't do any of that, to your point. It was, you know, basically your name image and likeness was owned by the school unless you went pro beyond that. And I think there are, which we can get into, there are some issues that come into just

the amount of money that the athletes are able to make at this point, but it's a great opportunity. Yeah, let's talk about that. Well, yeah, I think, I don't know if you have any specific questions or if you want me to just jump into what I see, but. Well, I think about the benefits of like, and this is one of my questions for you,

is it's like name, image, and likeness in theory puts a lot of the power back in the individual's hands, but I imagine there's also cons to that too. Yes, I think the biggest thing that we see, and we don't work with a ton of NIL clients because fiscally they have to be a huge moneymaker for it to make sense to work with us. But when we do, the biggest piece that we want to do is educate them. You know, you are making, oftentimes, six figures or close to it. You now have to pay taxes. You know, you are getting taxed on that,

which a lot of them have no idea the amount that the government takes for taxes. You know, are you investing it? Are you budgeting it? Just all of the issues that go into giving a 17, 18-year year old kid a lot of money, I think that's our biggest goal is to educate them on how to handle all of that success that they're seeing.

And I do think too, an issue I could see happening as well is these huge schools, you know, Ohio State or the big, big time Alabama, the schools like that are going to just start getting bigger and bigger and bigger because they're able to pay the athletes more. And the smaller schools that still get really good athletes, I think are going to get pushed to the wayside because they can't compete with that type of NIL payout that a lot of the big schools can. Right. Because it's almost like you're not just getting an athletic scholarship, you're getting the platform of one of these bigger schools. So it's like, it's a marketing move

now. It's not just about college, or it's not just about even college athletics. It's about like, yeah, how do I want to position myself? And it's a lot easier to position yourself at Bama than it is at random school no one's ever heard of. Exactly. Exactly. It's just the gap is just going to continue getting wider. It was always there, just because of the platform those big schools gave you to try and make it to the professional athletic. But I just think those smaller schools may get eaten alive in the long run. Well, I'm thinking a lot about the benefit this has had for female athletes specifically. I'm thinking about a lot of gymnasts. I think the LSU gymnasts right now are killing it

on social media. And they're some of the most, I put in quotes, but like profitable players or athletes for themselves that would not have happened a couple of years ago. Yeah. And I think gymnastics is so interesting because that's not typically a sport that you would think is a big moneymaker, but it has turned into, I mean, people always enjoy watching gymnastics in the Olympics and things like that,

but coming from someone who played a sport that wasn't a moneymaking sport, I don't see unless you were the star player on the team, that it would have really affected me at all as someone who was not the star player on the team. I think if NIL was around when I was in college, it wouldn't have impacted my life. But you're seeing some of these underground sports come alive and a lot more attention is being brought to them, which is amazing. Nicole Zapada 21 Yeah. And I think highlighting a lot of female athletes too, in a way that, again, it was

largely football and football is usually played by men. So it was, I think in that way, it gives a little bit of democratization to female athletes or to these kind of sports that you're talking about that don't usually get the spotlight. Yeah. I mean, look at what happened in basketball this year. The women's NCAA tournament. Oh, I have questions about her. Yeah. I mean, it's so amazing to see that the ticket sales for the women's NCAA tournament blew the men's out of the water. It was honestly more fun to watch. It was way more fun to watch. Oh, way more fun to watch. Oh God, yes.

Yeah. No, that was my other big thing I want to talk about is the Caitlin Clark effect and everything going on. It makes me teary. I'm even crying as we even talk about it because it just makes me so happy, but we'll get there in a second. Yeah. Any other downsides of NIL that you can think about?

Because I think we've talked a lot about putting money back in the athletes' hands, which I think is important. Okay. You know, the rise of female athletes, you know, some getting their dues, but to your point of like, okay, it might not change. It'll change some people's lives, but they were probably set up for success already because yeah, if you play at a smaller school or you're not the star athlete, you're exactly right. Like, are you getting influencer deals? Probably not. Are you getting jersey sales? Probably not. I mean, I think overall it's a great thing and it's giving athletes the ability to make

money where money is due. It was never right that they couldn't participate in the massive success that universities were having. I just think that there's a lot of responsibility that comes with receiving that amount of money. And that's what makes me nervous as someone who is in the field and is working to educate and make sure those issues don't happen. That's my goal is to bridge the gap between, okay, you have this money. Now what do we do with that money money and make sure you don't just continue this broken system of spending it all? Yeah, that's one thing I would love to hear more from you because I think about this a lot is folks who do end up making it big. We hear about the NBA specifically a lot because it's a lot of folks of color who didn't grow up a lot and then suddenly are making 12 million plus 50 million, you know, crazy contracts.

And something that breaks my heart is them not having the education, them not having the resources, you know, it's very difficult psychologically to go from basically nothing to being a multi, multi, multi, multi millionaire overnight. And I just see so many athletes and we've seen this time and time again, have nothing to show for it. They work so hard, they get these scholarships, they end up going pro, but then all of their millions of dollars, they end up squandering on basically stupid shit because they don't know any better. And so that is something that I know you're actively trying, you know, the whole mission of your work is trying to

actively combat. So talk to me about that cycle of, yeah, okay. Your brain on poverty. And then suddenly you're making crazy amounts of money. Well, you would be surprised at the number of athletes that we come across that have never once had a budget of any sort. They have, you know, one of the sayings that my boss always says is they live by the gross and die by the net, because they see what the line of their contract says that they'll get paid. And then it's just like cut in half almost by the time taxes get taken out and all the money they spend and all that. So you know that's one of the first things that we do is make sure they have a solid

understanding of the budget of absolutely everything they're going to be spending even down to a fun money category if they want to go out to the club and buy a section or you know whatever they want to do to spend that money. We're not saying that they can't have fun. It's just let's allocate how you're gonna spend that so that we don't go overboard in that situation. But it's education, it's getting strategy sessions on what their goals are, what they wanna do,

who are the biggest people in their lives that we need to make sure are either taken care of or we want to help educate them, connect them, help them get jobs. That's our whole mission is just making sure people are empowered to go be able to do it on their own and they're not relying on the contracts that transparently may not be there tomorrow if they get hurt or, you know, anything could happen, especially in the NFL, nothing is guaranteed. I'm a multimillion dollar business owner. And one of the biggest questions I get from people is, how

do I start my own business? What is the first step I should take? And I like to think that getting a website where people can discover you and discover your content is a pretty good first step. And that's where Squarespace comes in. Squarespace has everything you need to be able to start or grow your business, including the ability to sell content on your site, do email campaigns,

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is sponsored by ADT. ADT spends all of their seconds helping protect all of yours because a lot can happen in a second. Like one second your baby can't walk and then suddenly they can. One second you're happily single and the next second you meet somebody next to you at a bar. Real thing that happened to me. Or maybe one second you have a business idea that seems like a total pipe dream and then suddenly it's a multi-million dollar business with a podcast and a book. And when it comes to your home, one second you feel safe and the next even if something does happen you still feel safe thanks to ADT. After all, ADT is America's most trusted name in home security. Because when every second counts, count on ADT. Visit ADT.com today or call 1-800-ADT-ASAP. Well, and I want to highlight for everybody listening, probably not a lot of professional

athletes listening, but this is your money too. This is the same thing, right? Especially as a business owner, you know, I don't make NBA levels of money, but I make pretty, pretty decent money. And we just paid the largest tax bill of my entire life and my entire business. And it was a lot. And to your point of like, I think a lot of people, business owners especially, but anybody making money, right? You see the dollar amount, you see the salary, right? Okay. I'm getting paid 70 K a year. Great. No, you're not. Like it's not 70 K a year. It's, you know, you have taxes, you have fees. And then if you're a

business owner, right to your point, okay, let's say you do pay in the NBA, you're playing, you're paying a publicist, you're paying for, you know, your team of people, actors, same thing, right? You're paying for, you know, hair and makeup, you're paying for a security guard, you're paying for, you know, your limo ride to and from the Met Gala, you're paying, you know, there's a lot of things that you're paying for before you've even touched your money, expenses, taxes, et cetera. So I think it's so important for everybody listening, right? You might not be an athlete, you might not be an actor, you might not be making 50 million

a year, but you have to think about when you're pricing yourself, when you're negotiating for things, it's not just that number to your point. It's not just the gross, it's the net too. Yeah. And I think the biggest thing with that is just planning, you know? Yeah. Actually sitting down and thinking through. And knowing your numbers.

Yes. Exactly. So many people choose just not to look at that stuff. And that's fine for some people. But if you actually want to become an entrepreneur and build wealth and save money and put it to work, you have to plan for the worst and just be ready for the worst to happen because chances are something bad is not, you know, something is not going to go your way. Yeah. And to anybody listening who does have this like, okay, I'm not making a lot of money to, you know, what we call, you know, lifestyle creep where you suddenly do make a lot more money. I think to your point, I think the steps there are knowing your numbers, planning. I would advocate for like,

everybody needs to check in on their money. We call it the ostrich effect in my book, where you bury their head in the sand, you don't look, you act like your problems don't exist. Like that is temporarily easier because you don't have to deal with it, but it is not the solution in the long run. So yeah, I think again, I'm trying to

tie it back because most of us aren't, you know, all star athletes. I think, you know, but a lot of these stories are, are stories that we see in everyday life, which is like, oh, I did negotiate 20 K more in my salary. I want you to have something to show for that. Oh, I am a business owner now and I'm thinking about pricing myself. I need to price myself accordingly knowing that I'm going to have to pay, you know, a thousand dollar client. I'm not getting a thousand dollars in my account. I got $300 worth of expenses and another 300 worth of taxes and that's only 400 bucks.

So yeah, there's a lot to, I think, take away. And sometimes too, you have to pay a little bit upfront and that's really going to pay off in the long run. Yeah. Talk to me about that. You know, you have sticker shock sometimes of, wow, I have to pay all of these people to take care of all of this money that I have. Again, whether you're a professional athlete or you're someone like you and me who's just trying to save our money and build generational wealth the best we can, it's sometimes worth it to pay the

financial advisor, pay someone like Rise, pay someone to do your taxes so you know they're being done the right way. And you're not going to have to pay in the long run. For hair and makeup, if you're an actor, is someone going to be able to do a better job and then you're going to be able to land a bigger role? Sometimes it's worth it to make that upfront expense and then it'll pay off down the road. Yeah, I think investing in yourself is something that we've talked about on this show, but that we are socially conditioned as women to not do because again, it feels more risky.

I think, and I'm painting with broad strokes, but we also have the data to support this that men are more likely to say, yeah, okay, a couple thousand dollars to go take a course or to go, you know, do to your point like, okay, work with this person. Yeah, it's an upfront investment, but I'm hoping it'll pay off. And women are more risk adverse and in regards to that. So I think that's really interesting. Especially when you're working, you know, at that level when you're an athlete, like there's so much to think about of your image and your whole brand and like the what just kind of like the vibes you're trying to give off are, you know, cultivated. And I think as women too, we are trained from the society around us that we should take

care of everyone else and not ourselves. So, you. So what can I do to make sure you're comfortable even if that's sacrificing my own comfort? We have to completely rewire our thought process around that. I know you as obviously the financial feminist, that's a huge thing for you is making sure women understand their worth and their power. And that's huge for me too as a woman in sports and as a mom and a wife and just, you know, I'm trying to stand up strong for women. That transitions us perfectly into, we're having this fun moment that isn't a moment because it's been building for years, but I'm, and it's not just Caitlin Clark, but I feel like we're in this like perfect storm of like, okay, women's soccer just Caitlin Clark, but I feel like we're in this perfect storm of like, okay,

women's soccer for the past what, 20 years has been so dominant in the United States. We have, yes, Caitlin Clark, but we have Angel Reese and we have all of these, Cam and all of these women who are playing such incredible basketball. I'm a huge Kate Martin fan, by the way. I feel like she's underrated. I fucking love Kate Martin. I think, you know, we have with Caitlin specifically, we have, you know, arguably the best female athlete in her sport, at least right now coming out of college. Number one draft pick in the WNBA. She's making $75 fucking thousand a year.

Like she's making 75k a year. So first of all, what the fuck? And second of all, like, what can we do to bridge the gap? I think we're already starting to see this. I just I hear the like, the conversation a lot, which is like, well, when you know, the WNBA starts selling out stadiums and start being broadcast, like, then we'll pay people better. And I'm like, well, that's fucking happening. It is happening. Right. So when will the pay reflect that too? And also you should get paid equally regardless. But talk to me about this like whole perfect storm of like this moment that isn't a moment because we hope it stays, but also like we're still not seeing the equity yet. Well, it's crazy. I mean, it's absolutely insane. Especially if you look at NBA players are paid, their contracts are absolutely insane.

Ludicrous. Yeah. And as someone who's not personally an NBA fan, I much prefer college basketball. I just think, personal preference, I don't love the NBA. But WNBA, you don't even see it televised most of the time. I never would have, you know, turned to an ESPN has a WNBA game on. They probably have cornhole or some other men's sport that no one even talks about playing because no one would tune in.

And so I hope now that they're seeing these beast women athletes who deserve every second of the spotlight the men are getting that they're able to pay them. I transparently don't know what goes into the difference between like an NBA salary and a WNBA salary, but I would think it has to do with viewership which is up. So, you know, you have to at some point see that they're getting the same exact viewership that men are getting at this point and, point, see that they're getting the same exact viewership that men are getting at this point and, and pay them what they're deserved. But the NIL helps with that too, going back to that quickly. You know, at least Caitlin Clark and Angel

Reese are being paid on these state farm deals and big time commercials, and they're at least seeing a paycheck that they deserve. Yeah, I think that that is, again, one of the pros of NIL is we are seeing again, a little more democratization where, you know, again, you have, and this has been, you know, this has been forever, right? We've had, you know, incredible, you know, I'm from Seattle, Sue Byrd, we've had Sue Byrd, we've had Kelsey Plum, like we've had all of these women who are doing really incredible things in the sport, but have not gotten their due. And I think, you know, it's back to the quote of you have to be what, like three times as five times as good as any, any mediocre man in order to get the credit. So I think

we're seeing that with Caitlin is she's so dominant and people are finally starting to pay attention. And I think the NIL is helping with the legitimacy maybe and also with her getting the money she's due. But again, at the end of the day, her salary for the sport she's playing is still less than $100,000 a year compared to a bench warmer in the NBA is what, $2 million a year maybe? Maybe like, yeah, right. It's, it's crazy, but I do think. And I L gave Caitlin the platform to be seen because you started seeing commercials of Caitlin Clark and seeing, you know, social media ads of Caitlin Clark. And then people were like, Oh, you know, who's this girl from Iowa

that's insane at basketball. Let me, let me watch her. And then little girls in her jersey and she gets paid for that now. Right? Yes. And so now that she's in the WNBA, I think that's giving a lot of awareness to the low salaries and just the the huge disparity between the men and women in the sport. So hopefully something changes sooner rather than later. Karly Another thing I think about a lot, and I've

said it on this show before, and she actually just followed us on Instagram and I had a conniption, Abby Wambach. Jess Wow, that's huge. That's awesome. Karly It was a big, it literally happened right before I went on Good Morning America and I was like shitting my pants in the green room. I was so excited because I love her. Jess That's a big day. Karly It was a big day. It was a big day.

It was a big day. But yeah, so, you know, she and her wife, Glennon, host a great podcast and, you know, but her background, she played professional women's soccer and is arguably like greatest of all time, at least greatest, like top three. And she infamously has this video that went viral that she talks about. She won the same award that Peyton Manning and Kobe Bryant won. And yet she talks about how she was going into a very different retirement. She was not only getting paid, of course, millions and millions and millions of dollars less than Kobe and Peyton. But she was at the top of her sport, the height of her game, and she was exiting and retiring with no brand deals, with no, you know, Budweiser. What is it Peyton Manning is doing? Like Bud Light commercials, right? Like no shoe sponsorships, none of that. And so she literally said, like, I don't know how I'm making rent next week,

and yet I'm getting the same award as these two men, rightfully so who are getting this award, but like, I am entering a very different retirement. So can we talk about like, even the athletes who do make a lot of money, but then stop working, they either retire to your point, they get injured, and they're no longer able to play. What happens to them then? Laurenie Right. Well, and that's where you see the huge percentage of professional athletes that, unfortunately, go broke. I think the percentage is like 78% of professional athletes are broke

within three years of retirement. Like that's insane. That's absolutely insane. And so I think Like that's that's insane. That's absolutely insane. And so I think one of the one of our huge focuses at rise is Put your money to work while you have the spotlight and while you can and you have the sustainable income so that you know what a lot of our goals for our for our clients is to live solely off of Not their game check. Fully put your game check into a really great investment, into something that it's gonna start working for you so that you can live off of just that income

that's sustaining itself and growing without ever having to touch it. And I think a lot of people don't know to do that. Or just don't have the people around them to educate them to do that. Or as a woman in sports, you may not have enough income to do that. And hopefully now with brand deals or with higher salaries, you can so that you're not living paycheck to paycheck just to make ends meet. Well, and what happens to maybe even from a psychological level, what happens when you stop playing your sport?

Like I've spoken with many athletes on this show who like, okay, you know, you're making your money, you got your Nike sponsorship, but also like your identity is runner, gymnast, basketball player. Like what happens when you have to maybe if you don't have enough money, go out and get a quote unquote normal job job like a civilian job. But what is that transition like? Yes. I mean, sports is all a lot of these athletes know.

So again, I keep referencing what I do at Rise, but that's just, I mean, this is our whole focus. That's why you're here. Yeah, we're making sure they're set up for success. So we really try hard to pull out what are your passions outside of football or basketball or baseball, whatever it is that you're playing, so that we can slowly start you're still focusing on what you need to focus on. But let's start pulling out those interests. Is

it real estate? Do you want to be a real estate investor? Do you want to, you know, do that when you're done? Are you super interested in community impact? Can we set up a 501c3 for you that is going to employ your family member and give you something to focus on? Do you want to be a serial entrepreneur? Do you want to be a sports broadcaster? That's a huge, huge thing that we start slowly pulling on

the second we sign someone so that they aren't set up to fail when the sport comes to an end. Because it's a huge issue. And I think again, you know, using the Abby Wambach example is the perfect, you know, template for this. I think that, you know, not just with, you know, the sponsorships and everything or women go into women athletes, you know, you might not get the sportscaster offers. You might not get the, yeah, Nike sponsorships for life. You might not get the notoriety. And I think a lot about, we had my friend who's a rugby player, who's a professional

rugby player in the Olympics. And like, most of the time you're actually like paying to be in the Olympics and you only make money if you metal. And like, that's something that I wish more people knew and talked about. Like Michael Phelps is one of the only people, you know, maybe like a Katie Ledecky or Simone Biles, like they're the people who are making money, but like a curler or a rugby player is not making the same money. So I think it's also, you know, it's not just about money. It's also about like opportunities and reputation.

And like, again, like the best player, arguably the best women's soccer player to ever live didn't have all of those opportunities set up because women's sports was just not recognized in the same way that men's were. Yep. And I think make those connections while you can. Yeah. When you have even the smallest of a spotlight on you, go network and use, use, I mean, like your name, image, and likeness, use that while you can so that after you're done playing,

you can still go back and reference those connections that you made and start tapping in on, okay, now, you know, do you have any opportunities that I could either learn from you, shadow you, intern with you, have a career opportunity, any of those things, because the spotlight's not gonna stay on you forever. And it's even smaller, unfortunately, as a woman. So you gotta play on it while you can.

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It's an Uber account that allows your teen to request a ride under your supervision with live trip tracking and highly rated drivers. Add your team to your Uber account today. What can the industry do to change other than of course giving women their due, but like, you know, a lot of individual things that we can do, you know, of like, yeah, networking of, you know, making sure that you have a team around you. But most of this really that we're talking about is like the industry not respecting, you know, the contribution of women athletes or the

industry giving NBA MLB stars $20 million a year, but not teaching them how to manage it. NBA MLB stars $20 million a year, but not teaching them how to manage it. I think it's a little bit of all the things you just said. I think it's pushing the education onto the players, not making it a nerdy thing. If you want to go to the educational seminar that not many athletes are going to choose to go to because their peers aren't going to it. Like somehow we have to bridge the gap of making education fun and showing them how we can break the system to better themselves. Like we're not, you know, you're not trying to throw this education on them for any other purpose than helping themselves. And then I think too, it's when it comes to women in sports or the less popular sports that don't get the spotlight, it's just it's providing those same opportunities to them,

giving them a spotlight, giving them a chance, because as we're seeing with Caitlin Clark, she's just as good as the men and she's getting more recognition. So let's treat her the same as we do the counterpart. And then I think we'll start seeing changes in the long run. And I would say arguably better than most men playing right now. So yeah. Agreed. I don't know if you saw this post. It's been going around, it's been making, you know, making its way around Instagram. But it was like a tweet, I think. And it was the teacher, like a PE teacher that who said that one of her boys who was in class before he shot the ball up said Caitlin Clark, as

opposed to like Kobe Bryant. Right. Right. As opposed to, you know, Lebron James. It was like, it was Caitlin Clark and she was just like, oh, we're in a different time now. That makes me happy. Especially little boys. Like, oh, I just fucking love it. Makes me cry. I have to keep moving. It's gonna make me cry.

I just think it's so fucking cool. And again, it's like, you know, we're talking about Caitlin Clark and I always want to acknowledge like we're here because of the women who came before her. We're here because of not just, you know, the women at basketball, but all of the women who have been doing this sort of work and advocating for equal pay and all of that. So it's just been really cool to see. Yeah. I mean, think back like to when you and I were growing up, the only female athletes I can think of are like Mia Hamm, which kudos to her because she was in Gatorade commercials.

So she was a badass well before her time. And then like Lisa Leslie, those are the only two huge names that even really come to mind. And that's so sad because there was so many more amazing women playing sports that just never got a chance. Yeah. And for me, I grew up in a very golf heavy family. So like Annika Sorenstam, Lorena Ochoa, but the only reason I know those women is because my parents took me to LPGA events. Like that's the only reason. It was not really, you know, it was some televised, but of course, you know, the LPGA is only televised on Golf Channel.

It is not televised on CBS. The Masters is televised on CBS. LPGA is not. So yeah, and I think that was the other cool thing again about, you know, the popularity of Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, all of that, you know, that crew of women this year, or past year, technically, is we were seeing their games not on ESPN2. We were seeing them on ESPN or prime time ABC. And I could not believe that. And I was just, it was so cool. I mean, it's honestly, it's a breath of fresh air. Because it's just you only have men's sports that were on before this. And like, I think the the championship for the women was at a way better time than the men was at this year. And I know that it was viewed way more viewership, yeah, way more attendance. Yes, as it should have been. It was way I know we already said

that but it was way more entertaining than the men's tournament was this year. So my question, and again, I'm fangirling at this point because I just fucking love it and it feels just so good. How do we continue this momentum? Because the biggest fear I have is we have this incredible moment that we've been working towards forever and we have, you know, Superd and Rapina who are out here like trying to, you know, make this not just a moment. But what I'm scared about is it's like, okay, it was this like little, you know, this little uptick, but then it's going to go back to where we started before. So how do we as, as viewers, how do we as, you know, entrepreneurs,

how do we as professionals continue the momentum? You just have to keep the conversation going. and we have to start looking at the next generation now who is still in college and or just coming into college and has the potential to be the next Caitlin Clark. Let's keep looking at Caitlin Clark, but let's give these new kids the opportunity to go meet Caitlin Clark or have the same stage now that she has to keep the conversation going because you have to just keep the interest up and we as females and we as people in the sports industry have to keep that momentum going, keep sharing, keep talking about it, keep giving women the due praise that they are deserved at this point. And so I think it's

just everyone has to make a conscious effort to break the norm of only focusing on men's sports. Yeah. Well, as someone who's managing the wealth and, you know, the assets of athletes, are you seeing kind of like a Caitlin Clark effect in that regard? Are you seeing like a rising tide lifts all ships where, okay, we might see like definitive, a definitive increase in like how much women are making because of it? It's hard to say. I mean, I'm not in those conversations or in the room. It looks like it's trending that way. And I hope that it is. But I would say at this point, from my perspective, it's still too early to know if it's gonna if it's

gonna keep up or, you know, I would hope it's at least gonna go up a little bit. I don't know how long it's gonna take to get to the level that the men are making. But oh, yeah, we're years out from that, if not decades. But progress is progress, so baby steps to get there. One of the tiebacks I've tried to make is like, okay, you're not a professional athlete, but maybe you're an entrepreneur, right? And you're making money. And for me, entrepreneurship was, you know, the biggest thing that I did to become a millionaire,

to be able to grow my own wealth. So as an athlete turned entrepreneur for you, do you have any suggestions for people considering bridging that gap, becoming an entrepreneur? I think it's just not being afraid to try different things. As an entrepreneur, you are doing so many different tasks and juggling so many different things. And I think there's going to be things you hate, there's going to be things that you love. But if you're trying to bridge that gap of finding that, don't be afraid to strike out a couple times. I thought I wanted to be a physical therapist.

I thought I wanted to be a sports broadcaster. I thought, you know, like I hated a lot of different things before I found what I liked. And so I think it's educating yourself, having a grind, a work ethic. To be an entrepreneur, you cannot be afraid to get your hands dirty and be in the weeds with everyone else doing the dirty work that you don't always want to do. And I think it's always continuing to educate yourself.

Never thinking you're the smartest person in the room. Always seeking out further knowledge of an expert that knows better than you because eventually you could be an expert in that space. But just never think that you're the smartest in the room is huge. That's something I always take with me when I'm in a room full of smart people. Yeah. And I think echoing that too, you will never know all of the answers to the questions and you will never know all of the questions either in advance. And I think women are great planners, right? We're like very strategic, we're good at project management. And so, you know, before embarking on entrepreneurship,

we feel like we need all of the answers to all the questions. And again, we don't even know what the questions are. You will figure it out. You have to get started only through experience where you start to understand what the answers are to the questions. Yeah. if I was looking in 2016 when I first started this thing at all of the questions I was going to have, yeah, I would be immediately overwhelmed. But like, I didn't even know what to ask three years later. You know, you've learned that by doing. Experience is the best teacher. And also you cannot be afraid of making mistakes because that's the fastest way you're gonna learn and you're not gonna wanna make the same mistake twice or three times but you are going to make mistakes.

I mean, again when I started with Rise, I've been a part of the team for eight years now and I just got named partner and COO but I started as an intern and then I was a client relations specialist who had no clue what I was doing. But I asked the questions and I came to work every day and I was not afraid to work hard and do things that I didn't necessarily want to do. But that's the only way that you're going to grow and get to where you eventually want to be. Can you tell me a story of when you help someone feel closer to their purpose or their passions through their work?

I think there's two sides of it professionally and personally. Personally, I have recently found that I enjoy being a mentor and meeting with people who don't quite know what they want to do with their life because that was me not very long ago. And so just grabbing a coffee with someone who's in high school or in college and helping them understand it's okay to feel the way you feel. It's okay to not necessarily enjoy anything at this point. Just you got to keep trying new things and not give up and know that you will find something.

So that's been really cool. I've met with a couple kids who just have been lost and I felt lost at one time. So just helping them get to where they want to go. And then professionally, a lot of what we do, like I talked about, is the community impact and helping them find their goals and what they want to focus on off the field. One of our clients, Jesse Bates, he is really passionate about single moms and giving back to single moms.

He grew up in a single mom household and that's his whole vision and purpose off the field. We've helped him create this, it's called the JB3 Single Moms Fund and just have brought it to life. Our first year was in 2019 and then this past year was I think our fourth year. We took a year off for COVID but helping him bring that passion to life and affect and impact other single moms and their kids and educate them and give them resources and help them just find their way has been my absolute favorite thing to watch because it's amazing to watch someone flourish. Yeah, and thinking holistically, I love that about, again, you're not just an athlete, but like, what else are you passionate about? What else can we do to support what you're trying to do? And, you know, especially if you're in the NFL, if you're in the, like you have a platform and you can use that platform to advocate for issues that are important to you and advocate for causes that are important to you.

Yes, yes, absolutely. The football or the sport gives you the platform to speak about way more important topics and people are, you know, it's not always a great thing, but people are way more willing to listen to you if you have that spotlight as an athlete. And that's just the way it is. So we might as well figure out how to use that for a good thing. It was so great talking to you. Where can people find out more about you and your work? Yeah.

I mean, on Instagram, Rise Advisors, you can follow me personally, Annie Morse Bailey. We also have our website or symposium that we always post a lot of information about that's just to educate people, educate the masses. So definitely check out our social media, our LinkedIn. You can always, we're always posting on there. So cool. Thank you for your work. I appreciate it.

Yes. No, it was great chatting with you. I'm so honored to meet you and just have a conversation with you. So thank you. Thank you so much to Annie for joining us. You can follow her work over at rise underscore advisors on Instagram and we appreciate this conversation. And if you want more conversation about women in sports, it's something that I'm personally passionate about and want to talk more about. So please tell me if you want more conversation about women and sports it's something that I'm personally passionate about and want to talk more about so please tell me if you want more because we'll do more and probably if you don't say yes we're gonna do it anyway thank you so much for being here we appreciate

you as always you can subscribe you can turn on auto downloads that's the easiest way to support the show the show is entirely free for you but expensive for us so we appreciate your support in those very specific, but very easy ways. You can also share this episode with someone who you think would love it. Thanks as always for being here. We'll catch you back here soon. Okay, bye. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100k podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields and Tamesha Grant, research by Sarah Shortino, audio and video engineering

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