Financial Feminist - 178. Overcoming Stigma and Thriving as an Autistic Woman with Paige Layle

Episode Date: August 13, 2024

CW: Brief discussion of suicide and depression. If you are neurodivergent, and especially if it took you a while to receive a diagnosis, you know what it’s like to feel different. Paige Layle struggled through her childhood and early teens –– feeling frustrated by everything from the feel of her clothing to how to behave socially around her peers. It wasn’t until she was formally diagnosed with Autism in her late teens that she finally understood why her struggles felt so different from those around her.  In this episode, Paige joins host Tori Dunlap to discuss the nuances and stigma around being an autistic woman, detailing her journey to diagnosis, misconceptions about autism, the unique ways autistic brains function, and the importance of creating neurodiverse-friendly environments. Paige also touches on her transition to entrepreneurship, handling finances, and the impact of her advocacy on others. Paige’s links: https://linktr.ee/paigelayle Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at  https://herfirst100k.com/financial-feminist-show-notes/177-how-a-new-generation-of-athletes-are-using-nil-to-build-financial-security-with-annie-bailey/  Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Special thanks to our sponsors: Thrive Causemetics Get an exclusive 10% off your first order at thrivecausemetics.com/FFPOD Squarespace Go to www.squarespace.com/FFPOD to save 10% off your first website or domain purchase. Masterclass Get an additional 15% off any annual membership at masterclass.com/FFPOD. Indeed Visit indeed.com/FFPOD to get a seventy-five dollar sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility. ADT Count on ADT, America's most trusted name in home security. Visit ADT.com today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

And when you're told that this is how everyone else is feeling, I'm just looking around at everyone like, do you got this in the back of your head? Like, does your head work like mine, but you're just hiding it? Like there's stuff that you're thinking, but you just don't say it. And I'm the only person that is saying this stuff. Hi Financial Feminists. I am recording this right as I'm leaving for Europe and I am having a little bit of senioritis. I love my company. I love my work. as I'm leaving for Europe and I am having a little bit of senioritis. I love my company, I love my work and I'm also like Italian summer pasta. It's calling my name. What's not calling my name is the fucking heat. I am looking at these heat advisory warnings in Florence and the Omafi coast and I'm like, I like, I have never been to Europe in the summer. And it's almost like I've done that on purpose

because I have heard absolute horror stories about how many people there are and about how hot it is. And I don't do well in heat because I'm a Seattle girlie. Like if it gets to be higher than 85, I'm like, it's too hot. It's too hot. Like my perfect temperature is like a 78 degrees. That's perfect.

78 with a breeze. Mamma Mia. Absolutely perfection. If you don't follow us on Instagram already at her first 100k, I also have a personal account at Tori K Dunlap. I'm going to be sharing some European travels, but also not a ton because this is my one opportunity to not be on social media as much, but would love to see you over there. If you're interested in following our Italian and London escapades. Our guest today is Paige Lyle, who is an incredible advocate and influencer for a better understanding of autism on social media. Diagnosed with autism spectrum

disorder at the age of 15, Paige began advocating for autism in response to witnessing the common misconceptions about it. Now in her twenties, Paige is an autism acceptance activist on YouTube and TikTok. Her new book, But Everyone Feels This Way, How an Autism Diagnosis Saved My Life, which is a personal memoir about living with autism, became an instant Amazon bestseller. This was a fascinating episode and so important. If you have ever struggled trying to figure out your own brain, if you know someone with an autism diagnosis, and you do, statistically you do, I know many, we got into the frustration Paige went through

before her autism diagnosis, how she's learned to manage money, including buying her first home in her early 20s while navigating autism, her incredibly helpful illustrations for how her brain works and how non-neurodivergent brains can help support those, and the stigma she still faces as a woman with autism. This was an incredibly important episode, so without further ado,

let's go ahead and get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. This episode is brought to you by Dyson On Track. Dyson On Track headphones offer best-in-class word from our sponsors. and a range of colors and finishes. Dyson On Track. Headphones remastered. Buy from DysonCanada.ca. With ANC on, performance may vary based on environmental conditions and usage accessories sold separately. Shop Best Buy's ultimate smartphone sale today.

Get a Best Buy gift card of up to $200 on select phone activations with major carriers. Visit your nearest Best Buy store today. Terms and conditions apply. I want to say it's the same flowers and then I also had butterflies. I had like butterflies that my mom, she bought like a stamp of Joanne's or whatever. And then she stamped it and then painted little like, no way. Your mom was cool. You know, like movement things.

She's very crafty. Like my mom is very crafty. I do not have the patience for it that's me I've got my own house and I'm like I can paint whatever I want oh I love that and so I got purple paint I'm like yeah and then I got other paint I'm like this is um perfect and people told me it looks like booze door from monsters ain't it and I didn't even know that until people said that. I'm like, this is amazing! This is perfect!

I love it! That's one of my all-time favorite movies. I love that movie so much. It's been a minute since I know you've inspired me to watch that. Me too. I actually saw something about it today, Monsters Inc. I'm like, oh, that's a good movie. That's where I'm like, the brilliance of Pixar is just unmatched.

Where it's just like the concept for that movie is so good. And then the twist at the end where it turns out laughter is way more powerful than screams are because of course. Isn't that just great? They've got some good ones. I'm on the cover of a magazine. That's my favorite. I love it. We're so excited to have you. Thanks for being here. Yeah, thanks for having me.

We're going to dive right into it. Give us a background on getting your diagnosis. You were already in your teens, right? Tell us about that. Heckin yeah. Yeah, true. I was 15. I just turned 15. It was like 18 days after my 15th birthday. And I sat down in front of a psychiatrist for the first time in my whole life and talked for like three hours with him on a Zoom call pretty much and my mom next to me. And after the three hours of like every single question you could think of, he's like, yeah, man, you're autistic. No one's told you this.

Like that's why you're struggling with everything. That's this is what autism is. And here it is. Here it goes. And just him talking, I just slumped back and just saw my world unraveling in front of me like it was nothing. Like so many people knew this about themselves already. But that was just like he had all this information that I was just learning on that day. It was wild. Yeah. A lot of my friends are getting autism diagnosis, diagnoses or or like they're realizing they

have like ADHD or some sort of neurodivergency. And I think there is this like friction between, oh my God, everything's different now. And who am I and what is my identity? But also a lot of the friends I've talked to, there's like this sense of relief. Like a lot of my friends are getting diagnosed in their 30s. And they're finally like, Oh God, okay, some I have the explanation now. Did you feel both of those feelings? Honestly, the overwhelm was definitely there. How was that experience? A million percent. It was really strange because no one had ever recommended to my parents

or me before that there was something going on with me that I was different in any way. My book is called But Everyone Feels This Way because that's what my parents told me. This is normal. You're just like everyone else. Everyone feels this stressed and sad all of the time. Like that's normal. What? No, it's not. And if it is, it's not okay. That's where I hit my point. Like, this isn't okay. Whatever it is, not okay.

And so then someone telling me like, yeah, you're right, girl. Like for real, you're not okay. And haven't been. It was like someone finally standing up for me for the first time. Because I'd been trying to stand up for myself kind of, but I just hit so many nos and so many roadblocks

and so many, like my parents didn't even believe me. So then finally someone saying, you're autistic. It was like, I could breathe and go, oh my gosh, I'm not crazy. Like I'm not lying. I'm not making it up. I'm not being over dramatic, right? lying. I'm not making it up. I'm not being dramatic Right, like and that's what I was called. I think also I don't I look this way that I do and

They put me in theater. And so then I cry they're like what a dramatic little bratty little spoiled turd You know what? What's she doing crying over what like, because she put the shoe on the wrong foot, like what a brat. But then a little boy, my same grade, same thing, same situation. And everyone be like, well, why is this? Why is he worked up all the time? What the heck's going on? Well, can I pause you there? Let's talk about let's talk about the gender dynamic of that. Because that is interesting to me of, okay, girls, women, over dramatic, too emotional, too sensitive. Boys, because we don't condition,

typically in society, right, the gender roles, we condition boys to be tough and to not show emotion. And so then it's more of a potentially like a flag of like, oh, something is going on. So tell me more about that. When I see a boy worked up all the time, they're like, well, boys, boys don't cry and scream and get stressed about stuff all the time. Little boys, that's not a thing that we have little boys do. So if a little boy is doing that, if a little boy has sensory sensitivities, you know, if a little boy just like plays differently or socializes differently. It's way more noticeable for some adults apparently. And honestly, like, I think I could see that I could see it because as we condition a lot of girls, how I was as a kid, and especially the society that

I grew up in, where my parents are, you know, they're very, they're business owners in this town they've lived in since their grandparents moved here, you know, they're very, they're business owners in this town they've lived in since their grandparents moved here, you know, so they know everybody, everyone knows us. They're like, Paige is perfect. Everyone's perfect. It's like we're perfect. Everything's great. Right. White picket fence, golden retriever. Right. And then like she just cries all the time. Like that's fine. That's normal. She's a girl, right? Like she's just a little bit women, girl. She's a, she's a dramatic little girl.

She's a little girly girl. When, when, when, when, when. And they would just say, shut up, stop crying. Shut up, stop crying. Why are you crying? But no one, I think like asked or really like cared about why, you know? Just, it just happened to be the adults that I was around,

I guess too, at the time. Everyone just kind of took it as like, you're annoying. You're... why are you worked up? I don't know. And I can totally see how it happened to a bunch of my friends. And it's a thing. Like girls are typically diagnosed with autism and with ADHD later than boys are. And part of the reason is because the whole criteria on everything in general was based on boys. And we're now figuring out autism can look differently when it's not in like white boys. That's so wild that different people that are socialized differently can react differently to what their autism shows like. When you're a person that can what their autism shows like. When you're a person that can feed yourself primarily, when you can go to the bathroom by yourself, when you're verbal

even hyper verbal, yeah most people are like oh you're good you're totally good which is really a part about autism that I didn't know. I didn't know I was autistic before I was diagnosed. I didn't know I was autistic before I was diagnosed. I didn't think I was before I was diagnosed because I'd only ever seen autism. People say like this is autism when it was someone who I didn't see as being similar to me because everyone at that time too when I was growing up no one knew anything about autistic people to say like autistic people are also people, everyone's just people and this is

what an autistic person is, this is what they struggle with. If people even talked about neurodivergency when I was a kid I probably could have picked up the fact that was also me. I probably could have picked up the fact like we actually have so many similarities, I probably could have picked up the fact like we actually have so many similarities There's just different intensities at different parts and different things that I have intensities in Completely different areas than they have intensities and they're way happier and more calm and okay in these areas than I am And but we struggle with the same the same thing. It's called autism. It's a diagnosis. It has a label. It's filed. But you just don't notice we weren't taught those things. And people are starting to now be taught more about autism, which is very cool for everybody, especially autistic kids growing up,

learning that they're autistic. Nicole Sarris Well, and you, before you even got your diagnosis, you've talked about that you had this like list for yourself to have help navigate the world. Tell me about that list. Can you talk to me about that? Yeah, I had so many lists. I had notebooks and notebooks. I just saw what people were doing and how others reacted to it. And I wrote it down because I didn't know what to do. And I was stressed all the time about everything.

So I'd be stressed out of my mind about what to wear, like every day. I'm like, what to wear? It would freak me out. I'd have panic attacks every day. What do I wear? So I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna write lists of outfits that I see at school, what people are wearing. And I'd write lists of what people are wearing. So then the next day I just look at it and I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna write lists of outfits that I see at school What people are wearing and I'd write lists of what people are wearing

So then the next day I I just look at it and I just go okay yesterday so and so we're this I know that's an outfit to wear so I can wear it and it's gonna be fine. So where that Stress is gone If it's like I don't know what to do Like what foods do I eat at this like or, what, where do I take it from? Well, I'm going to see what people are, okay, they're taking this and this and this. You have to go over to the left first and then go all the way to the right. Okay, well, then I know that's what people are allowed to do.

So I know if I do that, I'm going to be okay. No stress. Right. So I had like, I had lists of like, I had lists of jokes to say, I had lists of life lessons that people told me that I should remember even if they were some of them were like, stupid. Well, and wasn't one in your book of like, I got to eat a banana every Thursday and like, yeah, I'm gonna drink tea, it's gotta be okay, I gotta stir it once clockwise to counter

clockwise and wild. Well, part of part of me is I also have OCD, which I think is not uncommon in autistic people, too, it's just it's very stress dominated disorders, right? Where it's just like, I need control because this doesn't make sense. And there needs to be control somewhere. And yeah, so all all those little things, all those little lists, not only were they trying to study and understand what people were doing to try to calm my anxiety,

then all that was compulsions. And that got really deep. Like I still have, and I had a lot of compulsions that were not fun. But then I'm like, I have to do it. I have to live like this because that's what I've seen people live. Like it has to be this. And if it's not, then it is a meltdown. That's more so when I got into like my teens and got older and like life really just did not

make any sense. It was just crumbling more and more and more and more each day. And then 15, which is so young when I think about it now, now I'm 23. And I'm like, that's so little, that's so wild. But like those first 15 years were so long. Like I felt like I was 80 years old every day. And this is why, oh, this is so much. This is the most life. Like I'm done. But like, I'm so glad I'm here and I wouldn't be. Well, your brain's running a marathon every day. Of course you feel exhausted. And, you know, one of the things, and we'll put a trigger warning on the top of this episode that we talk about, or that we found in the research is like, there's, suicide is just

a lot more common in autistic people and neurodivergent people because of what you just described, I imagine, which is like, I feel like I'm fighting my own brain, fighting my own body. I have these compulsions that are now requirements and that I have to complete every single day or every single morning. My brain's going so fast. Right. So I love that you said you're still here. Of course, those 15 years felt like a lifetime. Of course, it felt like forever because one, you didn't have an answer to what was going on to even well meaning people in your life are gaslighting you. And you were probably gaslighting yourself

because you didn't know any better. And then the third thing is, yeah, you you were dealing with this on a day to day basis. And you're looking around at everybody else. And you're like, is this how everybody else was feeling? Literally. And when you're told that this is how everyone else is feeling, I'm just looking around at everyone like, do you got this in the back of your head? Like does your head work like mine, but you're just hiding it? Like there's stuff that you're thinking, but you just don't say it. And I'm the only person that is saying this stuff. I felt like people were looking at me sideways. Sometimes I'm like, no, you guys are the same. Like you think this too, but like it's in your head, you're just not saying it. But everyone was

like, No. And I'm like, there's no way these people are that slow. There's no way you're not thinking this fast. But like, no, when you're six years old, most kids are six years old. And that's something that I did not realize when I was six years old, I thought I was kind of like everybody. But then back when I so when I was in grade 11, you're like 16, I went back to my public school. And for the first half of my year, I taught in the grade one classroom with six year olds. And seeing these six years, I taught them, I taught the six

year olds how to read, I bring them outside and read the little booklets with them, the same booklets that I read 10 years earlier, the same things. And I was just, I was so excited to see what these kids were like, because I remembered how I was like. And I'm like, you know, like, oh, are these kids going to be like that? Like, what's learning like for these kids? Absolutely not. I was so mind blown that six year olds read like six year olds. They read at the beginning of the levels and they've got to figure it out.

And they don't care that much about school. They want to stop and like, Miss Paige, yesterday my mom and dad and my dog and I and my cousin did this and I want to go, you know, there was like two kids in the class that we flipped through reading and like flipped through and in between they didn't want to talk about like anything other than reading other than books other than more things that they learned or what they read at home or different media that they you know in different ways I'm like you you guys are clearly I didn't say this to them obviously,

but in my head I'm like, this is clearly a difference in these specific kids. Just in this way in general, such a clear difference. Not to say that, like of course it's not necessarily good nor is it necessarily bad, it's just so obvious, you know? But I think because in that specific case, too, people are like, awesome, good reading. That's great. You know, high achiever. Exactly. Praise, praise, praise. Well, it's almost like putting on a pair of glasses. Like, this is maybe a bad example,

because it's definitely not the same thing. But like, I remember growing up, I got my first pair of glasses when I was seven. And it was like, Oh, so this is what the world looks like. Oh, this is this is I can read the blackboard. I can read I wasn't a blackboard. And this is like the night, not the 1960s. But I can read the whiteboard. I can like, I can actually see my teachers face fully. And like, wow, I think that, you know, unless you have literally the lens you're looking through, right, for my example, or my metaphor, but for you, it's like, it's so obvious because now you have the education and the lived experience to know like, oh, you're obviously artistic, or there's obviously something

going on. But for people who have never encountered that or never experienced it, of course, it never occurs to them. It's just, yeah, you're high functioning or you're, yeah, you're a good student, right? You're very academically inclined, right? You're a high achiever. I'm a multimillion dollar business owner. And one of the biggest questions I get from people is, how do I start my own business? What is the first step I should take? And I like to think that getting a website where people can discover you and discover your content is a pretty good first step. And that's where Squarespace comes in.

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And if you're doing school, if you're getting through in school, doesn't matter what your mental state is, you're great, good, good, do good in school. Awesome job. And I was doing good in school. And everyone's like, you're great. You're fine. You're fabulous I'm like, I'm losing my mind Every single day in like even in school

Like I I cried a lot and I hated it because I didn't want to but it was just so Stressful and so overwhelming and so so much that I didn't even know going on in my head that was going on in my head and But I was doing good. So yeah, didn't even know going on in my head that was going on in my head. And, but I was doing good. So yeah, didn't even matter. But after, like I was, I thought that I was gonna go to school forever and ever and do and be a pediatric cardiothoracic surgeon. That's what I wanted. I love kids and I love school and I'm like, I'm gonna do school forever and ever. I went to McMaster for kinesiology. I was there for a year and a half. In my second year I was an anatomy TA. I loved it so much but I could not be a human person. It was

like way too many things that like a lot was taking toll. Like my health was really not good and then that's where a doctor, a toll, like my health was really not good. And then that's where a doctor, a psychiatrist, I think the first time I was at, I was in an adult, I was 19. So she was not bullshitting me, which a lot of other doctors had when she was like, what are you doing in school if you are so depressed that you want to die? And I'm like, well, I got to do it. I got to be a doctor and then I got to keep going. I got it. And I'm like, well, I gotta do it. I gotta be a doctor and I gotta keep going. I gotta. And she's like, no, you don't. Like drop out. And I'm like, I can't, I can't drop out. I gotta do that. And she's like, you can't be a doctor if you're dead. So you gotta scoot, like drop out of school literally. And I just, I'd never had that before. Everyone's

like, you got it Paige. You're so good. You keep going. Like, you're so smart. You know, it was the first time someone's like, um, give up. Please give up. And I'm like, I can do that. Yeah, you can do that. I literally quit the next day. I dropped out of school the next day. And I two days later, I'm like, I need to make some money. I need to have a job. I got lash extensions at the time. and I'm like, that sounds like a job I could totally do. So I took a five day lash course. And so like a week later, I'm like, I'm opening up a lash business in my old bedroom as a child. And that's where I ripped doing that for a little bit random segue. No, but I think of, do you know Taylor Tomlinson? Yeah. She has this great bit.

I think she's also discovered she has ADHD. I'm trying to remember. And I think she's bipolar as well, or she has bipolar disorder. And she has this great bit where she'd be in high school and she'd go to her dad and be like, dad, I'm really depressed. I'm not doing well.

And he's like, you just scoop a peanut butter. You need some protein, you'll be fine. And it's like, I do feel like it's just, again, I love my parents, they're very supportive, but sometimes they'll call, you know, and be like, I'm just not doing great. And they're like, well, go take a walk. Yeah. Have you taken a nap? My parents bit was like, you need to go to the bathroom. You need to put Oh, my mom is she's like, have you pooped? Yeah. Yeah. Which again, helpful, but like, not getting to the root of the problem here.

I had my appendix exploded and I'm like, my stomach hurts so bad. And they're like, you need to poop. Like go, and I literally like two in the morning. Like invasive surgery. Yeah, I'm like, guys, this really hurts. Like, I don't think it's this. It was okay, my appendix is out now, so we're fine.

But yeah, I don't, yeah, just my parents, parents too, like my grandparents are very like that too. They're very like, everything's fine. You're fine, you're great. I think it's a generational thing because again, like we're the first generation to like talk about going to therapy and it's not the shameful thing. And also like, it's just, yeah.

Now I'm quoting another standup comedian, which is John Mulaney, but like, he has this thing of like, you know, I'll bottle it up all right here, and then one day I'll die. And it's like, that's it, which is just like, I'll keep it right here, and then one day I will just die. And that's fine. Perfect, don't have to deal with it,

don't have to reflect on it. Yeah. You know what happens there? I'm pretty sure, autoimmune disorders. I'm pretty sure that happens. Right. Stress and everything else. So you have the metaphor that you're using for to explain how autistic brains work is like using highways. Can you share about this illustration and then maybe how it shows how autistic brains operate differently. Yeah, I love this.

So there's, there's this thing in autism, it's about the connectivity of the nervous system and just that autistic people's brains are connected differently than neurotypical brains. So when you're born, your brain has like a bunch of just like, stupid little neurons. And they're like, we've got so many and we want to do stuff and figure it out. And so as you learn, the neurons start connecting with each other and start making pathways and figuring out, okay, this is good. And as some skills get really good, really defined, some connections get really strong and more neurons get added. And so it's like a neuron highway of information.

So info can be, you know, boom, boom, from one area to another really quick because you've done that skill so much. Your neurons are like, this is automatic. Now we've done it so much. We know what to do. We built this highway. We're good. And so what happens there is other neurons that were just floating around, you know,

over in this section, maybe they're not used. So then they just, they get pruned away, neuron pruning. You get rid of neurons that aren't used. So then the highways that are really strong and those electrical signals that are really strong aren't interfered with and not goopy, they're just nice and strong. So this is, this

happens to everyone. Everyone's neurons prune as you learn. That's why it's like, they say it's easier to learn things when you're younger than when you're older, because when you're younger you've got all these neurons that are like ready to be specialized. So with autistic people, very cool thing that they've learned is that autistic people have more neurons in their brain than neurotypical people. So we're not sure why we're not sure if this is the result of this happening or if this is why this happens.

But because we have we've got all these neurons in our brain, we also have less highways, less highway connections in our brain. So what that kind of means or what that kind of looks like is that if neurotypicals have like all these highways, really strong highways in their brain that connect, you know, this part to this part of the brain really quickly, whereas we've got a lot more neurons, we've got a lot more of a difficulty having strong neural highway connections from brain part to brain part. There's just so much interference. There's so much electrical activity happening in our brains that in like a small section of the brain, like if you just look at like the frontal lobe. If you look at like an autistic person, we've got a lot of neurons. That means that if we were to do a task that just involved one center of the brain, well, we've got more signals, we've got more stuff going on, we're going to have

a more intense reaction to whatever that task is. So let's say like that task is, you know, just sensory input, we're going to have more sensory input than others. Let's say that task is specifically like memorization. We're gonna have better memorization than neurotypicals. If it's pattern recognition, because that is just one part of the brain, we're gonna do that better than neurotypicals. If it's something like body language, that requires multiple areas of the brain to work together. That requires you to, you have to know so many different things about people and faces

and body and about communication and about manipulation and about all these different things working together. And that is something that autistic people are not known to be super good at. And it's just so funky that it's our brains and just thinking of the how the connectivity works in our brains and how the connections work in our brains actually makes so much sense as to why we are and why we react the way that we do. We have so much electrical activity going on that like all these different areas of complex humanity, sociality, layers of layers of knowing people, whatever, it just gets all, that's way it gets all lost way too much. We've got a lot of like small towns that are really good at communicating with each other, you know, but I only got some highways to like, whatever, we still got brains. But you know,

we got small towns that are really good at like, we're going to run this committee, we got a really good committee, you know, like those specific detail. Thanks. I like that makes so much sense. That's so helpful to I'm thinking about my experience as a kid, we had, and I had an autistic classmate, and this kid could give you every battle and every war, like knew everything about history. And I remember as someone, you know, who thought myself pretty smart and was academically inclined was just like, this is another level. But then social skills were

just not there. And not, you know, as a kid, very hard to understand what's going on. But also, I just think back to that time, of course, he was bullied and teased because the important and I'm quoting, you know, putting important in quotes, but the important thing when you're growing up is not really how well you do in school. It's are you weird or not? Right? Like, yeah, are you a good kid? What do you do? Right. Or and for other kids, it's are you can I be friends with you? Or are you or are you just the quote unquote, weird kid? And again, I mean, weird, purposefully derogatory here. So I think, yeah, like, I mentioned that, again, I'm thinking about to Yeah, childhood you and like, I just imagine that

experience is so tricky. When yeah, there are certain pathways in your brain that are firing all cylinders, like never been seen before. And then there's other ones that are just like not happening. Yeah. I got others. I got other villages going on, but like all this, all this stuff, it seems so, so complex and so abstract, like a lot of abstract concepts concepts like they seem so abstract to me like I actually it's almost like I can feel my brain not connecting the dots my brain's like this doesn't make sense to me but then

other things like math math makes so much sense to me that's just patterns and boom easy peasy yeah but like I'm a social media person like you know making people on social media happy and like public, whatever. Never. I have no idea. Right over my head. I don't know. That's so many things. That's so many, like things that conflict each other and there is no right answer. And that's a hard thing about humans. Karly Soria There is definitely, as a neurotypical person, I will also tell you that's my experience too. Just I'm sure on a more minor scale, social media is a hellscape. But no, I know what you mean. That's probably the worst version of like body language because it's a bunch of strangers and

a bunch of people who you will never meet who are giving you opinion at every hour. It's made me learn a lot about psychology because I really just have to. Yeah, I just look at like these people that see, you know, like a 15 second clip of me. And then they want to comment like the worst stuff about me. And I'm like, the absolute page. It's not about you. It's about them. They don't know anything about you. As a recovering people pleaser myself, that's been something really fun. Navigating with social media. It's made me grow honestly, tremendously. It has, I've had to grow up and like, this is, this is what we're doing. Okay. People are like this. Well, and that's kind of related to the question I have for you next, which is about masking.

And I think everybody, even neurotypical people mask, especially, yeah, especially in, you know, entrepreneurial worlds, the corporate world, there's just like this need to put on a mask and like sift through a lot of the bullshit, you know, entrepreneurial worlds, the corporate worlds, there's just like this need to put on a mask and like sift through a lot of the bullshit, you know, pretend to be someone you're not because being your true self might be punished. So have you found spaces in the entrepreneurial world that have like fully embraced this side of you? And then have you had to pull away? I mean, kind of like sounds like a little bit of social media, right?

Have you had to pull away from spaces that didn't? Yeah, there's definitely spaces now that are helpful and accommodating and understanding and run their business from a place of being neurodiversity affirming. But there are definitely a lot of places that do not understand and I won't understand. And I've kind of just had to make the switch of the mindset to be like, I need to focus on my clients, my customers, my people that actually are finding what I say important. They are finding what I say helpful and what can I do for them and that's where I need to focus my energy. And all those people that are doing all that hate anywhere like on social media, if there's someone who doesn't like me for xyz reason, like you know and people can not like me

for lots of reasons, that's totally okay. But if they're like, oh this doesn't work and it's like because of something to do with me being autistic. But you know what, I actually don't think I've really had that happen. Most places have been really, really good, really accommodating, really understanding. I'm really emotional, and can get really stressed. And I need like a lot of things planned out, or like, what's going on? Where is everything? Bop, bop, bop. And a lot of places are really good, like really accommodating and understanding, which is awesome.

Like I feel actually like by having my advocacy become a business is making me so much happier because I'm focusing on those people and getting to see and have closer interactions with those people that I'm actually directly influencing and impacting. Like that is the best and I get to be my truest self. So all those other people that are like, we want you to act a certain way, we want you to be a certain way. I'm not going to because also I want little kids that watch me to not feel like they have to either. Yeah. That's probably actually one of my biggest things. Like I love kids. I'm a dance

teacher and there's so many people in the creative world that are neurodivergent and I never want to hide who I am especially around kids. Especially like when I do I like you know kids-ish that follow me in their later teens or whatever. And I just want to be authentically me and be serious and raw. It's not all sunshine and rainbows and this is what I hated about today. And then they see it and they're like, me too. I feel okay.

I feel normal. I feel seen. I feel alive. I'm okay. Like that is what I'm okay. That is what I never had. If I saw someone like that when I was a kid, it would just be, why? That's something I really try to focus on and do.

I really try to be myself because I would hate for a kid to see me not being myself and think, well, why aren't you? Why can't I? Yeah. No, I love that. Bumble knows it's hard to start conversations. Hey, no, too basic. Hi there. Still no.

What about hello, handsome? Who knew you could give yourself the ick? That's why Bumble is changing how you start conversations. You can now make the first move or not. With opening moves, you simply choose a question to be automatically sent to your matches. Then sit back and let your matches start the chat. Download Bumble and try it for yourself. I want to talk about personal finance with you. I'm so into it. Because managing finances as an autistic person, you've talked about how, you know, we've kind of

talked in this about like how people with autism have different topics that they're like, especially proficient in. Some people are more like the maths numbers, some people are more drawn to like language and creativity. What is it about stocks in particular that work well for you and your brain? And what are some of the challenges you faced with money? My parents are both entrepreneurs, and they have been their whole lives. And so they've always they gave me the first mindset and idea of like, you need to save money and this is what everything costs.

And do you know what a mortgage is? This is what it is. My mom's a realtor. So I grew up really hardworking and I worked multiple jobs all throughout high school and through university and just save, save, save, save, save, save, save. Because that's what I did. I wasn't a spender. I just had a save, save, save, save.

And so I was good at that. I'm also very good at being frugal and saying, um, I don't have the money for that actually. I cannot afford that. I'm just like hoarding it. That's what I did for a long time. Starting my first business, my little, my little lash company out of my parents, my old bedroom was a big switch because I'd never taken any business course or anything. So I just had to kind of figure it out as I went along. The money thing came figuring out like all the money and how that all was gonna work. I actually, I got a little bit lucky

and I got to have a break to figure it out because five months into starting that business was COVID. And then I had like five months of you can't do anything. And so during those five months, I'm like, what the heck am I doing? Figuring it out, creating a website and getting a business number, et cetera. And really, my parents had done all these things, but I've always had a weird relationship with my parents a little tricky and they they've never really been good teachers they're like yeah you just did it you know and I'm like no I don't know I

would love it for you to tell me they're like so I'm like all right I got to figure this out and it has been a journey I well something that I'm like, all right, I gotta figure this out. And it has been a journey. Something that I'm very excited about is actually right now I'm currently enrolled in this business course thing that my city is putting together or they hold every year and you have to apply for it. But it's like six months continuous of like

a business course there's a gap yeah there's just there's a lot of cool stuff they're gonna help that teach you a lot about like finances about marketing about anything like digital media stuff you want it but keeping blah blah blah which I'm very excited to learn about I'm very good with like numbers I can do the math whatever I'm very good with like numbers. I can do the math, whatever. I'm not good with a lot of other things. With social media specifically, it accidentally, like my advocacy on social media accidentally blew up

and then brands just kind of like threw themselves at me and were like, we'll give you this if you do this. And I'm like, well, like I could do that. Sure, that's easy enough, sure. And everything was just kind of happening reactively. Yeah. For a bit. I feel like that was TikTok in 2020, 2021. It was just, I have so many people who follow us on TikTok because I teach people how to negotiate with brands and how to do all of that. But oh gosh, I had people in my DMS who had three, four or 5 million followers

and being like, they've asked me to do the moon and stars for $300. Should I do it? No, no, absolutely not. But, but because again, I mean, the whole mission of my work, a whole mission of the show is like, because nobody talks about money. Yeah, exactly. And nobody teaches it. You have no idea if $300 is a good thing to charge. And I think especially with a new industry, like being online, being an influencer, being a creator, there's no idea. I have no idea. So it's 2024, so I'm just hitting four years now. I'm just now figuring out some things. Before, brands would give me a number that they were going to give me at first. And at, and at the beginning I'm like, yeah, like

whatever it is, that's a bigger number than I've ever seen. Right. And I see this with corporate people too, who are like, oh, you want to give me this much a year? Okay. And they don't negotiate. They don't think about it because they're just like, oh God, okay, great. You're going to, sure. Now I'm, yeah. I just hit a point where I'm like, what am I okay, great. You're gonna sure. Now I just hit a point where I'm like, what am I doing? Like, this is so reactive. I've lost myself. Like, I'm not doing what I want to do. I don't like brand deals. I don't like it. You know, I hate selling myself. I hate it. So I'm like, I have a sponsor. Here

they are. Like, I hate it. So I just I'm like, okay, I want to do a business, be a business, start a business, because I also have all these followers,, I'm like, okay, I want to do a business, be a business, start a business. Cause I also have all these followers and I'm not doing nothing with them. It's yeah, it's a big learning curve. There's some things that I'm good at. There's some things I'm definitely not good at. One thing I'm good at is the rules, which is good. So getting in touch with an accountant and asking what are taxes?

What, what do I do? And I've had a few meetings with him just to like ask and write down things. That's been helpful Are you in sharing states? I'm in states. We have CRA. It's like the Canadian revenue agency That's where we can find all of the IRS. That's for the yeah, that's yeah, make sense. Are you page is just In that not helpful. Yeah, like how do I get through this and what does any of it mean? Right, that's every single every I'm connected to personal finance or money. It's just like just awful absolutely So much, but there's also so many so many things so many rules The best thing is finding people who know it right you are in there Well, and I want to call it what you just said, you know, putting my personal finance expert hat on. I don't do my own taxes. I never have. Like, that is something that

is pretty high stakes. And it's also like, I, I don't feel qualified to do that, especially, you know, I have a more complicated tax structure with the business and everything. So it's like, yeah, if that's a business expense for us, like hire an accountant. Like that's never a bad thing. No, me three. I want to talk to you about something you say in your book about this idea that autistic people all have the same interests and strengths and weaknesses. And of course, we know that autism is not a monolith and that it's really harmful and completely false.

Have you run into this in your daily life or run into this in the business world? To clarify your question, like that people think like autistic people are all kind of the same. The same. Yeah. Yeah. The first like TV interview I did, they came to my house and like with their crew camera. And it was the first time I think that I'd been around people who were not neurodiversity affirming or like okay with it. And I was just, I didn't even know what I was doing. I'm like, I'm so excited.

And she looked at me weird and she's like, okay, calm down. And I was just so thrown off by that. And that just didn't stop. And she's like, okay, relax, take a breath like at various points throughout the day, where I'm like, I'm, I'm fine. Or she would like look at me weird and be like, are you okay? It's okay. Like just weird, so condescending and weird. Did she know your work? Did she have? Is that why she was there? I don't even get. Yeah, like that was the point. Oh, boy.

Strange. And she asked questions to that word that she did not put on the show that I so wanted her to put on the show that she asked me a question. She's like, one of the questions was, uh, something, something she said, you don't look autistic. It was just quiet and just looked at me. And I just looked at her and she went and I went well what does autism look like? And she was like uh. Probably didn't like that question. Yeah she was like good question.

Uh I don't know and I'm like. Okay. I don't know. It sounds like we had someone who yeah if I being, if I'm assuming positive intent, who had not experienced or been around neurodiversity, didn't work to understand it very much. And yeah, boy. Right? I don't, yeah, I don't know what it is. Some people see, I don't know, some people like hear autism and they just think something in their head. That's like one idea that they've heard of once. And it's different for everyone.

Right. They're trying to fit you in the box, the precon one idea that they've heard of once. And it's different for everyone. Right. They're trying to fit you in the box, the preconceived box they've already built. Whatever it is, whether it's, whether it's Sheldon Cooper, whether it's Rayman, whether it's that one autistic kid in their class in grade five, you know, whether it's like their nephew, whatever it is, they're like, you are him, you are them, you are, and they're like, ah, like I can see it in their heads as they look at me, they're like, they're trying to, or sometimes you'll see someone that I know they've definitely got an autistic person in their family When they come up to me after like hearing I'm autistic or something and they try to offer or talk about something

Oh, they're autistic person likes, you know, you know, I can tell like you're trying to be cute and be sweet But that's not a do with me, you know, that's just a person thing. That's not an autism thing You know, it's just a person thing. That's not an autistic thing. You know, it's right. But it's cute. Well, they're trying to find ways again, if we're some assuming positive intent, they're trying to find ways to connect with you. And there's just like, oh, this is what I've got. Yeah.

Yeah. You can see I could you can see it going and I can see it working in their heads. I was like this. Yeah. And I'm like, that is so nice. You're so cute. That is a really sweet way. I love your response of, yeah, what does an autistic person look like? And then she's

like, you don't look autistic. And so I'm like, well, what, what should I look like? And she just like, she's like, I don't know what should you look like? And I'm like, I don't know. I asked you that actually. So you answer. Right. I just, I think, yeah, I think there's just some people like that who are just like, yeah, you don't look like a business owner. What is the business owner? Me. You don't look like a business owner. People will come to my house to do repairs and they're like, give this to your dad, the bill. And I'm like, oh, I can, I could pay it. And they're like, oh, just like, you know, pay it later. I'm like, I can pay right now.

And they're like, oh, you know, like when your parent gets home and I'm like, no, I own this house and I can pay it right now in cash and they're just all blown away, which is, yeah, well, I look like this little like, which, and I don't know very much about stuff. So I'm probably like, come in, it's down here. Yeah, the panel. Yeah, the panel. Right. They're like, hey, child, baby, I'm used to I'm used to I think people assuming a lot about me. I'm used to people looking at me and assuming that I'm neurotypical, that I'm dumb, that I'm like, just did see, probably like, you know, little like, really into guys, like people look at me and assume these I've like all my life, it's, it's very funny. And all my life I've been very subject to. When I first met you, I thought you were a bitch. But once I got to know you, you're actually like really and you're really weird. And like who would thought that you're actually so weird underneath? And you're like, do you want me to say thank you to that? How would you like me to respond? Can I tell you, I got a DM from one of my exes, ex girlfriends, when she found out I was autistic on social media. Oh my god.

She said, Paige, you don't know me, but I'm so and so's ex before you. And when you guys first started dating, I was so insecure about you. You're so perfect. And now that I found out that you're autistic, I see that nobody's perfect. And like you've really like you made me feel really relaxed. Hannah Montana knew that better than anybody. What the fuck? I couldn't believe it. I did not respond because I'm like there's in what world

again, it's back to our internet is the wildest place and also just people are crazy. Now that I know you're autistic. I just think that there is we've talked a lot about this on this show, not so much the neurodiversity side of this, but I do feel like people feel threatened when you're unabashedly yourself and you know, Michael Jordan, they took that personally, but they take it personally. It's not like, you know, there's something about people being themselves that makes insecure people even more insecure. And it's through no fault of the secure person. It's just you being your fullest version

of yourself, unmasked makes almost everybody else because most people don't live the authentic version of themselves. It makes everybody else realize, oh shit, I don't like myself. I don't like the masks I wear. And so rather than evaluate that, it's like, oh, well, you're so, I love that you're so weird. I could never do that. Right? Like, and it's, or just these weird comments that are, yeah, and especially

on social media, it just comes to me time and time again, to your point of like, it has everything to do with this other person and nothing to do with me. Like it's, it's that over and over and over again. And I, again, not I'm neurotypical, but I think there's an interesting what you just said about like assumptions about other people to you, I am working actively on being okay with the story that somebody has come up with about me and the assumptions that someone has come because I can't control those. And I want to control I want to control the narrative. I want to like respond and be like, No, that's not true.

And that's not this. And it's just like, it's just like, I think that I don't need people to, I can't have people understand. And that's something I'm actively working on. If like, if you're going to assume something about me, I'm not going to convince you otherwise. And it's, it's on you that you're assuming it. That's a big thing that I'm trying to think of always been like, especially in my childhood, like I was like, no, wrong you're wrong and this is right I also think like proving the rim yeah proving them right and especially like I think like too

like when you're like gas lit a lot in your childhood too just about a lot like who you are you're like I'm trying to prove it I'm trying to prove I'm not lying that I'm not being dramatic that I'm not like let me prove it and I'm also like very susceptible to if anyone um I've had like a lot of bad people in my life that have convinced me and told me that I was the bad person. And I'm always wondering if I'm the bad person, always hoping I'm not trying to not be the bad person in all of the ways.

And I'm very susceptible to people saying that I'm the bad person. And it's like all over. You're the bad person. And for any reason. I don't mean to take you to therapy here, but I'm only asking because I feel this way. Do you have a fear of getting in trouble? In trouble? Yeah, I did. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm about to turn 30. Yeah. And I still have the fear of getting in trouble. Yeah, I did by my parents and I when I get in trouble by my teachers, it was horrendous. Yeah. I'm even talking like, I'm at the place and you know, my parents and I disagree about

plenty of things and I had to work for years to like make my own choices. I'm even talking about like, Oh, somebody's mad at me on the internet. I'm in trouble. Like, I have the fight or flight, like body drips and sweat, not like that intense, but like you know what happened to me? Yesterday I was on a call with literally the business coach and I accidentally was four minutes late. Never in my life have I been a minute late to a zoom call. But I was sitting here for 15 minutes.

I wrote an email and a four minutes late. So I pop on and I'm like, I'm so sorry that'll never happen again. And she's like, no, it's totally fine. Bah, bah, bah, totally fine. And she said, I was thinking for a second, like, is she really gonna do this to me? And I was like, I'm so sorry.

And then whatever, and as she kept talking, tears just went down my face. And I'm like, shut up, Paige. Like, what are you doing? But I, then she asked me a question and I had to answer. And I'm like, shut up, Paige. Like, what are you doing? But I then she asked me a question and I had to answer and I'm like, I'm sorry, I just need a second and just cried. Because I felt whatever I felt inside me. Like I was I did a bad thing or like she said with me, but also like I failed and I shouldn't have done that. And I'm mad at myself. And it was that was literally yesterday. It was awful. It was so strange.

But yeah, what you're saying, I don't mean to take us into that tangent, but I just I have the same thing. I'm just like, I don't want to get in trouble. I don't want to your point. It's I don't want to let myself down. And I don't want to let people I respect down. Yeah. And I hate people. I've always hated people being dumb. And it's a thing that I'm going over now as I get older. But when I was a girl, same like, oh, like, I'm like, I'm like, shut like, are you seriously you can't be saying that or thinking that that's just, you know, that people, you don't, I don't do that now or say that now. I just think it in

my head. But now I think in my head, be stupid, you know, go ahead and be unempathetic. Be Yeah,, understanding. Do whatever you do. Like, that's you. I'm not going to, I now realize that like me trying to convince people stuff all the time, especially convince people like how I, how, who I am or how I want them to see me, I guess on my business. That's not, that's, that's their thoughts. Like that's a boundary I'm crossing to be honest, to try to like change their thoughts

and mind. Like, right. Isn't it Mel Robbins where she just says like, let them. Yeah. Or somebody. I don't know if she started that, but it's just like, let them. Let them. Okay.

Just let them. Let them. They're going to think that way. Let them. They're going to do that thing. Let them. First hearing that when I was like 12, I'm like, I can't. Oh, I know.

I could never. I know. I'm immediate h Oh, I know. I could never. I know. I'm media hives. Yeah. Palms are heavy. Vomit sweater. I think the two in the in the place that I'm into like the autistic community. It's not a lot to just let them. It's a lot of people that are like, absolutely not. And it's you know, the most hate does come from your own community most of the time. I think honestly, the hate that kills the most would be from my own community. That's how I feel too. The stuff that hits me the hardest is from women who were in the Target demo who are

yeah, and they're often the meanest. But I do want to wrap up by saying like, no, you're good. We're on a tangent. I want to bring us back. I know I do it all the time. It's okay. No, you're good. We're on a tangent. I want to bring us back. I know I do it all the time. It's okay. No, I do too. But I did want to, you know, the flip side of that is we're talking about, you know, spent the last time I was talking about the, you know, the hellscape. How has your work impacted people? Like I imagine you've gotten so many lovely messages of like, I feel less alone.

Like, tell me, tell me some of those stories. It's amazing. It's what's kept me going and what's made me know and feel like I need to make this bigger and more meaningful and more direct because I have the potential apparently, not me, but like this audience, there's so many people gathered in this one place on social medias that want the same thing. And I'm like, there's so much to do here.

And for me, it's like, there's so much I want to do. It's like corralling that into just like one thing at a time, because I want to change the world. But changing the world doesn't happen overnight. So it's really, it's amazing. It's amazing. It's beautiful. I get DMs, I get letters.

Like the letters are, I got a letter yesterday from an 11 year old girl who said every day she comes home after school and watches one of my videos and like feels less alone after a hard day at school. And then I got a letter like last week from like a 65 year old man who said like I just discovered you this week and I now know everything about myself that I've never known like And it's just like the most wild the The first few messages I got like that Maybe just like lose my mind because those that that was me that was

mind because those that that was me that was like imagine that being you Paige and seeing online someone like you and realizing it before having to go through all this hell and like try to end your life and end up in the hospital for someone to say you're autistic like these people are figuring it out online i'm like i cannot believe that i like i that's i'm just so happy and that and it's been it's not just a few people, it's been like thousands of people and families and parents that say thank you. I've seen messages from like 2020, it's someone saying like, you helped my,

I just got my kid diagnosed because of you. And then 2024, they're like, I just got diagnosed because of you. That is for that. That's what the deal is. And I want to create an environment and place where people like me can exist and be and learn about ourselves and be comfortable. And I just want that to keep increasing and going and it is

it is that's all I can say four years ago it was nothing to what it is today and that's just four years I can't imagine four decades like four decades from now I just it's gonna be a whole different world I'm really happy. I love that so very much. Thank you for being here. Where can people find more about your work and your book? Plug away. Oh, sure. Well, you can find me at page Lail, basically everywhere page Lail.ca. My book is called But Everyone Feels This Way, How an Autism Diagnosis Saved My Life.

And you can get it to Hatchette Go. It's also available on Amazon, Target, Walmart, Bars and Noble, Indigo, anywhere where books are sold. Find me on YouTube, Target, Walmart, Bars and Noble, Indigo, anywhere where books are sold. Find me on YouTube, Instagram. Yeah, all those fun places. Thank you. Thanks for being here. Thank you so much for having me as well. It's been great having a chit chat with you. Thank you to Paige for joining us. You can follow Paige on TikTok or YouTube at Paige Lail and her book, But Everyone Feels This Way is

available wherever you get your books. Thank you as always for being here. Your support of the show and these important conversations means the world to us. So subscribing, sharing this episode with people that are important to you, as well as turning on auto downloads is the easiest way you can support us. And if you love the show, leave a five star review. We appreciate it. All right, team. I will see you from yonder Europe and I'll talk to you later. Thank you for listening to financial feminist, a her first hundred K podcast. Financial feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields and Tamesha Grant, research by Sarah Shortino, audio and video engineering by Alyssa Medcalf,

marketing and operations by Karina Patel and Amanda Lefeu. Special thanks to our team at Her First 100K. Kaylyn Sprinkle, Masha Bakhmakiyev, Taylor Chil, Sasha Bonar, Ray Wong, Elizabeth McCumber, Claire Karonen, Darrell Ann Ingman, and Megan Walker. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton, photography by Sarah Wolf, and theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100k community for supporting the show.

For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100k, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com. If you're confused about your personal finances and you're wondering where to start, go to herfirsthundredk.com slash quiz for a free personalized money plan. What's up, everyone? I'm Hala Taha, host of YAP Young and Profiting Podcast, a top 10 entrepreneurship podcast on Apple. I'm also the CEO and founder of the YAP Media Podcast Network, the number one business and self-improvement podcast network. That's why they call me the podcast princess. On Young and Profiting Podcast, I interview the brightest minds in the world,

offering actionable advice to level up your life. I've interviewed marketing legends like Gary Vee and Seth Godin, serial entrepreneurs like Alex Ramosi and Damon John, and even the godmother and godfather of AI, Fifi Lee and Stephen Wolfram respectively. I've interviewed so many inspiring guests and I don't really like to put my podcast in a box.

We talk about anything that will improve your life as an entrepreneur. I tend to talk a lot about brand, marketing, sales strategies and better understanding psychology and human behavior to get what you want. But we also cover things like balance, biohacking and mental wellness and of course hot topics like AI.

One thing my listeners always say is that my podcast is highly motivational. If you wanna get pumped up and take your life and business to the next level, come listen, learn, and profit with the YAP fam. We're young and profiting not because of our age, but because we're committed to ongoing learning and self-improvement.

So join Podcast Royalty and subscribe to YAP, Young and Profiting on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.