Financial Feminist - 86. Anxiety, Feet Pics, and Buzzfeed Drama with Kelsey Darragh

Episode Date: May 9, 2023

Have you ever thought, “Wow, I’d love a podcast episode where we talk about anxiety, mental health, the market for feet pics, and how much money a content creator really makes” Then you are in luck! Tori sits down with creator, filmmaker, and comedian Kelsey Darragh to discuss a wide range of topics, from selling photos of your feet online to managing anxiety and why you should never trust those “celebrity net worth” trackers you find online. Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://herfirst100k.com/start-here-financial-feminist-podcast Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The story of the person that starts having success with money and then is so fearful of never having it again that they just work and they work and they watch you know their kid grow up they don't get to enjoy the vacation. There's a story that he tells about like his friend who is a multi-billionaire but he retired when he was like 40 something and he's like yeah I wish I would have enjoyed any of this money when I was in my 20s and 30s. Like I've missed out on so much opportunity and people are like, well, I don't care. He's a billionaire in his 40s. Who cares? Right. Like, yeah, but at what point do you have more money than you have time? Hi, financial feminists. Welcome back. Welcome back to the show. And if you're new here,

hello, my name is Tori. I am the host of this podcast, clearly, but also a money expert, a millionaire, an entrepreneur, and a Timothee Chalamet stan. And we're so excited you're here. This podcast is all about not just personal finance and money, but really how money affects women's lives differently and how we can use money to make an impact on our communities and change all of the bullshit inequality so that hopefully we can live in a world where we have rights. Crazy, crazy concept. But really, we're just talking about how money affects women differently and all of the things that go along with that. And that includes Mental Health Month. So this episode is incredibly important. We actually recorded it way back in 2022,

but we've been holding on to it because May is Mental Health Awareness Month. So we're sharing episodes from experts and advocates all month long, touching on mental health and how it affects us and our finances. Just like any other month, though, we talk about mental health always on this podcast. We just want to especially highlight it in May. We will link previous episodes that discuss the emotions of money, how our mental health affects not just our money, but our confidence and our jobs and our relationships. We will link all of those down below so you can take your learning to the next level. Okay, today's guest.

I am so excited. We recorded this episode in Kelsey's home. And if you've spent any time watching content from BuzzFeed or just reading her book, you have seen her on the internet. There's no way you haven't. And I am a huge, massive fan of Kelsey. So this was just the coolest full circle thing for me, where I got to chat with her. Kelsey Darrah is a creator, filmmaker, and writer who you've probably seen producing hundreds of videos on the internet with an average viewership of 14 million during her time at BuzzFeed. Recently, she's transitioned to linear content with impactful films as a documentary director and executive producer. She joined the Sundance family in 2019

with a New Voices Fellowship for her dramatic comedy about mental health and relationships, Where We Are. Shortly after, she released her first book, Don't Fucking Panic, which made the Amazon bestseller list in the mental health category. Currently, Kelsey has been announced to direct a feature documentary about BuzzFeed Inc. and her documentary about restorative justice, Rehumanize, has just wrapped post-production and is seeking distribution. She is currently working on her second book about chronic pain published with Thought Catalog. And when she's not directing or writing, she's with her rescue pit bull Hippo, who unfortunately was not there. Hippo was at daycare, I believe. I literally walked in and hugged her and then I was like, where is Hippo? Hippo was out of office today.

You can find her on TikTok at Kelsey Darrah. I won't lie to you, this was the equivalent of like sitting around the fireplace with one of your friends who you haven't seen in years and catching up and then maybe throwing in a little wine and a lot of money talk. It's a great conversation, but there's a lot of laughter and sidebars. I think you'll really like it. We dive headfirst into anxiety, mental health, feelings around money, and how the patterns we learned growing up about finances affect how we see them as adults. We've also talked about her transition from BuzzFeed and navigating her way as a freelance creator. Also, I will say this is definitely not a kid-friendly episode or one you like listen to on the Sonos out loud at work. So just want to disclaimer before you go further.

And again, if you know Kelsey's work, that is not surprising to you at all. So let's go ahead and get into it. But first, a word from our sponsors. Psychedelic One in September. I've never done it before. And I really, I want to. Yeah yeah are you a weed person at all i am a like never drugs ever because i was drugs were bad yeah no i did all the drugs and i'm terrified of them so even me who's done so many drugs was terrified about psychedelics yeah they are the least scary out of all of them so i feel like it would be good for me i i am not a doctor but i think you should do some drugs yeah great for your i did i smoked a joint for the first time like two months ago and i caught the first time

i like did like a weed pen once and some edibles i don't that's bold to go straight to edibles it was like you took three for a full dose i ate one uh-huh and i was like i don't feel anything after an hour so i took two and then i was like i still don't feel anything don't take three after yeah no i didn't i didn't feel any i don't think i've ever actually gotten high so yeah i smoked a joint okay or i really i just i took one big big big breath of a joint and coughed for 25 minutes. I was like, I hate this. I'm never doing this. Do you have anxiety?

No. That's interesting. No. So it's just a... I just, I've never smoked a cigarette. I've never smoked anything. So that was like a little virgin lung getting like, it wasn't good. Also, I feel like you have to be drawn to that sort of thing to be like that kind of

person at our old old age i know you're way younger than me um we're we're really not i'm 28 i'm gonna be 32 in like two weeks no no i'm wise um but like if you're not into it by now also i feel like it's like don't fuck with your your mojo baby you're such a hard worker i don't do a lot of caffeine either it's just like what do you run on sleep if i don't sleep i am a monster same like i didn't i didn't sleep very well last night you're being very pleasant am i yeah we're recording by the way i don't know are we recording this too what oh the audio and everything it's not yes okay i am i'm terrified oh of using an episode it's happened

i'm double checking but we are rolling you know the thing where you go you talk to somebody really deep for 90 minutes and then you look and you're like i've lost hit the button one episode before and i will never was it with somebody like especially important no i'm always like i'm so worried it was me but it's i'm your pal oh my god also i give you a microphone with the most cat hair on it no it's hot though do it trade with me no it's great no i don't want you eating cat hair no that one must be that one must have been in my closet she's eating are we are we using any of those on my show are you better who's your editor you better include all of this ma'am or sir yep all right

you bring it out we're exposing i know that's what happens when you put a pal on the pod i know pal on the pod there's a pal on the pod on the pod yeah okay talk to me about your book. So you wrote this amazing workbook called Don't Fucking Panic. I did. About your mental health journey, about helping others in their mental health journey. Can you give us some background on that journey and what brought you to writing a whole entire book about it? Did I? Am I allowed to cuss? Of course.

And I came on your podcast before, no? No. This is the first time. Wait, what? I haven't been? Nope. You came on mine. Yep. Okay. Because I was like, on mine yep okay because i was like we were supposed to do an event together and we had to cancel right right right okay you talked with my team we did a lovely blog post in anticipation and then a little talk okay okay okay okay so i haven't told this story on your

in your platform great to me okay i was fucked up fucked up like clinically i my anxiety was so severe so early on in life like panic attacks panic disorders you want to talk about freaking out smoking weed oh your girl hi and yet i continued to smoke it every single day for years um until i was like maybe this is something to do with my problem. Maybe this is making it worse. Yeah. Depression. I mean, I remember just always being fucking tired all the time as a teenager. I got tested for thyroid, all the shit. And no one ever was like, maybe it's her mental health. Like I had I had to look up some old medical records for a shot or something of vaccine. And I found medical records when I was like 17. And it was like, what is your daily stress level? And I as a 17 year old, well,

wrote 10. And I was like, what the fuck could I possibly have thought? Anyways, it's all relative, right? And so I wrote this book, thinking, I'm gonna write the manual that I wish I had had when I was 17. This book is fully talking to 17 year old Kelsey. And I put everything I could in there. You want actual therapeutic CBT exercise. Got it. You want somatic body work. It's in there. You want journaling. Got it. You want games. You want connect the dots. That comes out to be a picture of Ryan Gosling holding a bunny we have it in there it is a workbook for any kind of ness of any kind of necessity when it comes to anxiety panic disorder or depression I think the thing I mean it's literally written on the cover of the book of like I'm not a PhD I'm not like qualified for sure and one of the questions I get never from the people who are actually interested in my work but they always go do you like do you have your certified financial planner license what are we

1970 that's what i say and i think there's something weirdly beautiful about actually being outside of an industry like tell me you're a real person right i'm sure it's the same thing with you literally i'm like i was a theater major yeah like let's talk about me like let's talk about navigating that's why i trust you more because i'm like a theater major who has millions of dollars like yeah when it's everyone ever it's like a financial planner i'm like yeah but who are you where are you tipping off the top from who are you scanning at the you know there's a lot of great financial professionals out there but it is like it almost feels after like 2008 after occupy wall street after all the shit where you're like i almost don't trust you no because you've been in the system and also using jargon to try to

describe you bring out such like that phrase being in the system is such like a good point i mean we're all in the right no but like we've been victims of the system right and not to like own victimhood but we've been there for that and i think that's exactly why i wanted to write this book pointing out like this is not like a self-help book this is from someone who's been helping herself and she wants you to just have access it's a survival guide that's literally what i wrote in the intro of my book i'm like this doesn't solve capitalism no this doesn't like no this isn't i can do it yeah do it too like no it's it's just how to yeah like i've had the doctor tell me it was all in my head i've had the doctor tell me i was just being dramatic looking for attention i've had the doctor misdiagnose me i've had like

you know i've i don't think if a doctor was writing this book they would have those experiences in there and it wouldn't be as funny definitely not definitely not do you feel like that is because you're a woman like was that a huge chunk of it of getting misdiagnosed or like gaslit oh yeah are you kidding me i think it had to do with i grew up in the south right tramp but gotta love it one tree for life i only call it trample because of you thank you you were in a buzzfeed video called it trampa one yes And if anybody says they're from Tampa, I'm like, it's Trampa. And where you call us tampons. We're the tampons.

You call other people from Tampa tampons. Literally? Yeah. I did not know that. So it's Trampa and you call us Sarah Tampa. I've been to Florida once. Where'd you go? That was enough for me.

Orlando. That's fine. It was like, I walked out at seven o'clock in the morning to go to a conference and there was just geckos all over. And I'm like. Geckos? Yeah, I'm like, I'm like i'm out i'm surprised not alligators well i didn't think i'm not enough too much disney not enough everglades i think yeah alligators are not that scary to me because i grew up they were like always in the backyard and just anyway um yeah being a woman, it's like, duh. We, I keep separating us in age.

We grew up in the era of like mental health finally being talked about, you know? And 15 years ago, it was not being talked about the way it is being talked about now. What is it, Taylor Tomlinson, dad? Have you seen that video? She's like, eat a scoop of peanut butter. I just went to her show like two weeks ago.

She's on TikTok, I follow follow her so we met up she's lovely yeah she's great yeah she's so funny her new hour is gonna be crushing great um the brand new one because she's just churning out yeah she is you're talk about growth honey you have just us exploded it's been crazy you you specifically yeah but that's a team behind me of course but take some credit i will i will but it's it's been it's definitely a we now i think a lot of a lot of people still think i do this by myself which is wow comical that is insane no but you've taken something matt like good for y'all and your team's really nice that's important i i love my team very very very much you have a shitty rude team then yeah no bueno no bueno yeah yeah and i think um

i i try not to get teary every time i talk about this i never thought that other people would care about this thing as much as i do oh it's not the best feeling in the world contribute to it like just the community in general but also specifically my team. I'm like, I don't think they're ever going to care completely because it's not their baby, but they've got to be damn close. And it's just, I'm so touched by it. The reminder that that exists. I think so many people think that they have to do things on their own. Well, women especially, especially right because it's like

i actually i hired um a good friend of mine who ended up becoming our coo last year and i was like one of the best business decisions i've ever made and i think we're told to kind of schlep it like a struggle yeah and it's like it's hey your life well and it's weirdly a badge of honor to be like oh i do this whole thing myself no it's not it's hey your life well and it's weirdly a badge of honor to be like oh i do this whole thing myself no it's not it's not no one's impressed by that people are like you need drugs the reason we've grown so fast is because i hired yeah that's you hired the best people to do the job yeah i was hiring people before i even took it full time like i had somebody on staff when i was still running it as a side hustle because i realized i was like i can't

do this on my on my own i I can't navigate it. Your parents must be so proud. Okay. A lot of our listeners struggle with Oh, I thought it was just that. They struggle. I was like, same. Okay, I'll tell you. In 2022 if you're out there being like, life is great 24-7, I'm concerned.

You are delusional. I'm concerned. Yeah. Okay, a lot of our listeners struggle, period. But also, struggle with their. Leo just stepped right on your vagina. He knows that I like dogs more than I like cats. Cats always know. They're like. He finds that person.

Oh, always. A hundred percent. A lot of our listeners struggle with the impact that their mental health has on their finances and their money. Was that a reality for you? And what ways would your mental health affect how you viewed or managed your money? Okay, I'm going to say something that I've in therapy said, I would never say this out loud or like in public. And so I'm going to say it. Okay. Okay. I,

okay. I'm gonna say it. Okay. I weirdly think growing up a bit privileged with money really fucked me up with money that's not shocking okay that's like my biggest my biggest secret we weren't massive we weren't millionaires my my mom came from absolutely nothing yeah built her entire business became one of the most successful realtors in florida amazing and she said i'm going to give my kids everything i didn't have that was my parents as well eight brothers and sisters in a one-bedroom house horse shit my dad literally but yeah like my dad wore like reusable diapers like yep trash like yep pure trailer my dad was outside of pittsburgh yeah very similar like no money yeah and so my childhood was

mom and dad both are working seven days a week you're at home with the woman who raised me and she will give you anything you need as long as it's not mom or dad that you need which is then so sad but like no yeah like whatever the opposite of nepotism is it's like no you're not around at all to give me nepotism you're like just uh but you know my mom and i have the best relationship i always say she's like my best friend because now that i'm older i'm like oh wow that was fucked up but because they weren't around and they were really trying to financially support whatever dreams i had i was massively ahead in a step up because i had that kind of support got it but i was super super not prepared for pretty much any fucking thing else especially when it came to money. So figuring out a budget or like how to do

to all everything, opening a bank account, getting a credit card. What is it? Everything I had to learn. And not only that, but then once I started running my own businesses, oh my God, I was like, I got, I'm going to hire a a business manager so i hired a business manager so then i still didn't think about it right this year is the first year that i don't have a business manager anymore because i started charging four thousand dollars a month and i was like absolutely not the last time we talked you still had somebody yeah it was they went up you and i had you and i did not have the relationship at the time for me to be like that's a lot of money oh yeah insane right but i was i was doing

the i was like you can manage this yourself or at least pay somebody else to manage them they're not going to take that much money from me i so now i have a what's it called a bookkeeper yeah and yeah that even having that though i still think about money all the fucking time in a stressful way now I am more balanced I'm going to tell you what changed okay I listened to a book called die with zero I haven't heard about it I've heard of it I know very little I'm assuming the premise is trying to spend all your money so you don't leave an inheritance is that the idea it's not so that you don't leave an inheritance it's so that you use your money in a way that when you die it's not wasted so it's not like more metaphysical than yeah like it's not necessarily like he even has a whole chapter about leaving money for your kids and it's like yeah but once you give that to them

that is their money got it once it leaves your hand it is no but so what are you left with on that yeah like do you still have a hundred thousand dollars in your bank account when you die where's that going it's probably gonna end up but like that was how many hours extra did you work to have a hundred thousand dollars left over in your bank account when you died which by the way privilege to acknowledge if anybody's dying a hundred k they're like right with their assets i got my extra 100k just sitting in a random bank yeah yeah the cash under the bed yeah but it really it opened up my eyes not only a to okay i don't need to be as stressed out as i fucking always am yeah yeah because i was right that was like my number one thing in therapy that i talked about was money stress but also literally that's the vast majority of americans if that makes you feel any better it

does yeah and doesn't because i'm like what are we all doing guys i agree but then it also made me lean into the witchy shit of like not fearing money and once you stop fearing it it flows to you what we think is more easily. But maybe it's just we're seeing it in a different way. Or we have the tools to be able to manage it now in a way that doesn't feel intimidating. Yeah. I feel like it has to be a mindset shift. If you want to go woo, you can plus the like practical element of it.

Yeah. Because you can't have one without the other. And it's just about really truly feeling what it feels like to have money in your body. Like, what does that actually feel like? We see it as such a not like we're not holding cash ever. It's transactions. Well, and also cash means only what we give it meaning for, you know, like I literally talk about in the book of like, I don't want a stack of government issued paper.

No, that doesn't get me anything. No. What that buys me. Yeah. I want to go on the vacation i want to go on the trip i want the i want to throw money at abortion funds like without even thinking about it i want to yep you know yeah book talks about it too about like people leave money to causes when they die and the truth is the causes could probably use the money now right and so i'm like oh okay that also changes my perspective of like do i feel like i'm contributing in a way that's actually tangible and matters right now and that makes you feel better uh is not getting an inheritance

from their from her parents instead she's giving the inheritance her parents are giving the inheritance to her every year oh cute mom and dad Mom and dad, you want to do that? There you go. I wouldn't be angry. Yeah. So instead of, you know, a lump sum of money when they pass away, it's like, okay, I'm going to give you, I don't know how much it is, like $2,000 a year. That's great. Yeah. Amen to that. Yeah. No, it's fantastic. I want more of that. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, I think a very smart way to do it. Cause she was able to take like a year long sabbatical with some of that money and just like that's what i'm saying and then you die with zero like the parents are like yeah what's the point of us giving her 500 000 like i was intentional too right it's not like

i'm dying with zero because i'm so scared of money that i'm gonna avoid it and it's the story of the person that starts having success with money and then is so fearful of never having it again right that they just work and they work and they watch you know their kid grow up they don't get to enjoy the vacation they don't and then they end up with billion there's a story that he tells about like his friend who was a multi-billionaire but he retired when he was like 40 something and he's like yeah i wish i would have enjoyed any of this money when i was in my 20s and 30s like i've missed out on so much opportunity and people are like well i don't care he's a billionaire in his 40s who cares right like yeah but at what point do you have more money than you have time well and the

funny thing is is that a lot of the experts that we've looked to the dave ramses etc right are the completely are the people who are telling you deprive deprive deprive in order to when's he gonna die do we make a i just feel like we're talking about it how much is he gonna have in his bank account when he dies i don't know i i wish him and his children and his company the best i don't i don't have any i don't have any you don't have any you don't have a worse than this no you don't have a yeah it's like stop let's stop it guys stop fear-mongering people into your fucking business

stop telling people to deprive themselves of complete and total joy and that's the answer because it's not 99 of diets don't work because if you tell me i can't have fried chicken all i want is fried chicken does he like know who you are i'm that's really funny you say that we joke at the company like he has to know he has to know we beat him on the charts he's blocked me on twitter at least he did oh it's it's actually it's like the like i've made it moment yeah it's like the, like, I've made it moment. Yeah. It's like a bunch of people. Bunch of people. Like, not even like, this was years ago before I really started criticizing him. Oh, shit.

He blocks the delete. It's hard. Or do you think he's so old and out of touch that he truly has no idea? I mean, I think his team knows. I don't think he knows. But how old could his team people be? Because it's not like he's churning out fucking content. He releases a podcast episode

three times a day weekdays i think three times a day we have the radio show and it's three hours long and they just republish the radio show see you just proved my point he has a fucking radio show what are we 1970 he's still like number one though and we'll occasionally beat him or somebody else will occasionally beat him but he like he's camped all right number like i said all these people were they need to go soon it's it's it worked for some people a lot of his advice got people on a really good path it was like a gateway drug but and i also don't agree with his business practice there's a lot there yeah but it's just it's like if you're telling somebody to completely deprive themselves of joy that's not the answer no and you're also only telling that to marginalized if you're telling somebody to completely deprive themselves of joy, that's not the answer. No.

And you're also only telling that to marginalized groups. You're not telling straight white men, stop buying your Rolexes. Stop buying your football season tickets. You're telling women, stop buying Dior purses, you cow. Okay, first of all, they are art. Okay, they grow with value. Can we look at the purses we have now? I don't care if they don they grow with value can we look at the purses we have now they're all if it brings you joy if it's something that you like and you can afford it great i can't really

afford it but it's an investment piece and it's grown and they've made me money see for me i'm not a designer person but am i bawling out on vacation on like $300, $400 beautiful meals in Italy. That's what I'm spending my money on. I don't. I'm not a designer gal. But I am. I own two designer pieces. With purses.

I'm a purse and I am wearing my Dior ring. But it's little things. I almost bought, last time I was in Paris, my first designer purse was going to be a Givenchy purse. And I loved it. And I was obsessed with it. And it's more money than I've ever spent on you bought it no I did a whole lap with my best friend of the mall literally and she this she had to convince me she was like you can afford it do you want it and I'm like yes I want it really bad she's like you can afford it everything's fine

like she we literally had a pep talk and I was like okay 45 minutes later I walk back up I look at it I'm like I don't like it as much as I did. Well, see, it was an emotional high for a moment. And now, and that's why I gave myself an hour. Yeah, very good. I actually, I suggest that for so many people, the amount of times that you'll see a designer bag and you'll get high, literally standing there, literally like leave and come back the next day. Yeah. And if you're still thinking about it a day or 48 hours, then get it. This I've, I've had this conversation with my mom and i didn't even think about it i've had that i'm like we'll come back tomorrow if you still really nope that's literally what i recommend yeah okay i have so many questions okay sorry no you're good about like, as a person who has watched your

content literally for years. And me now to you too. Isn't that crazy? I've literally watched your content for years. I will have a full on breakdown. I just I have to keep going. Because I'm such a fan of yours. I can still say Massachusetts. I still shit. i can still say massachusetts i still i can't say it don't ask me don't ask me next next massachusetts how we've grown mass massachusetts i can't say it okay how did you get involved at buzzfeed i how much buzzfeed can we talk about as much as you want there's nothing i won't talk about great because i have i have some i have some juicy ones okay okay the only thing i probably can't talk about is like what other people made or made because i don't think i know okay how did you get involved in buzzfeed and did you know that you wanted to be comedian creator producer going into it okay yes 100 because i was already

doing that just on a much obviously smaller not successful successful scale. But I was also like, I want to be in Hollywood doing comedy, whether it's writing or acting or SNL or whatever. Yeah. And I just saw the times of change. And I saw this YouTube thing popping off and I was like, all right, let me get this try. You got in on exactly the right. It was it was truly the heyday. It was like the time.

I don't think it could ever be created again. It was magical. And Facebook, baby, that was my bread and butter that was my shit now i'm like oh how do i go on this old fart ass fucking but that's where the videos were that's where the buzzfeed video like the in app videos were popping off yeah that was a that was a dream it was the days glory days so uh keith habersberger yeah my king keith habersberger hi keith talked on an episode of the tripod about how he saw his experiences buzzfeed as like a high dive ladder and so he was like you could get off at any time and make some sort of splash but the higher you climbed the bigger the splash splash. Wow. What a metaphor. It must have been high.

Probably. Yeah. I think that might have been for more high Try Guys episode. But I thought it was A, very poetic, but B, the idea of when do I get off the high dive? Mm-hmm. Like, do I keep going? Yeah. And at what point am I, like, pigeonholed?

At what point, like, was this how you saw your time there as well? like i'm gonna i'm gonna keep going i'm gonna keep going is it time yet to jump off like what happened for sure like there was a point where i was still with traditional management and agent before i went into bus feed and there was a point where they were like hey we can't rep you anymore if you're only gonna do this because like we're sending you out on auditions you can't go because you have work and like you're working there like oh so you were trying you were working i shouldn't say trying to work but you were working before yeah no but like with buzz oh yeah oh shit yeah i was like still trying to go out on auditions and like send in packets i was like i wasn't i was an intern and then I was a fellow and I wasn't full time until six to eight months into working there. So there was a period of time where I was like, am I in?

Am I out? Like, what am I doing? And my agents and managers were like, is this what you're going to do? Because we don't think it's a good idea, but we'll support you. And I was like, I was like, so drinking the fuck. I'm not even say Kool-Aid, but because it was actually happening, like the digital era was taking off so i was like no this is what i'm gonna do this is the way i'm gonna get to do comedy and write and like do anything i want in this field i don't need a studio to tell me right so there was that like arc where i was like wow this is the the new renaissance. This is the new era of content creation. And then there became a point

where I think the people, not I think, this is what it was. It's like the people made that company. And then there became a point where the company was still a company and they weren't looking at people. They were looking at how can we sustain this business beyond, you know, what we've built. And then there became a point where I was saying no to things because I was working there that I wish I would have said yes to. Were there any times you walked in an audition room and they're like, oh, the BuzzFeed girl? I was certainly afraid of that. Yeah. Certainly afraid of that yeah certainly afraid of

that and especially around what is this early 2010s right yeah mid 2010s yeah it was i feel like still shat upon in a lot of ways it was like on the quizzes yeah yeah luckily like all the jobs i was doing it helped because i was doing like unscripted panel stuff like the way i got my tv show was because they had seen me on buzzfeed videos and got like you're great like go do that you had a portfolio yeah you want a host of a comedy show like I can give it to you watch my 900 videos on the internet right so it definitely did help I wasn't like trying to audition for like a serious feature film I think they would have been like probably not great for our marketing but like maybe we could partner with busby I don't know right but there were definitely some

things that i brought in to the company that i was like look this is exposure this is money this is great for me and buzzfeed that then buzzfeed said no and you can't do it because you're our employee and i was like yeah so after i think like after the adult ship podcast that i did which was like my first podcast when i was still at buzzfeed when they were like when i was like wow we're number one in comedy and like wow we sold out a 200 person theater on our own and they were like you can't do that that's like an hr violation you can't just like make a show without running it past like our events team i was like oh well i did it he and they were like okay great here's your assets and resources to film your podcast on an

iphone go do it i was kind of like something feels off about this and then you know you hear you hear all the other stories and things that were happening with people there that you were like, OK, that's not happening to me or like, I don't feel that way yet. But I think you get to a point where you're like, if I want to really do what I want to do and if I want to have growth and like the snacks were so good there, it was like if you really wanted to give up all that came with working for like a startup successful company, which is like kombucha on tap massive some of your best friends are now collaborating oh my god and we're still best right you know

what i mean that's been so cool to watch is it was very much kind of like yep this company gave us our start but also fuck this company and we're gonna stick together yeah and that that has been why i've never really like i don't have many negative things to say about my time there because i also never and this isn't to knock on anyone else who was there but like i never put up with shit from the company i was never like afraid to ask for what i want i never asked for permission and then when they stopped giving me a permission i left yeah and i like kind of wrote out my i really wrote out my my contract at the end there i was like all right yeah i'll stay here while you guys figure out what you want to do but i'm not coming into work and i'm not doing anything and i'm just

gonna keep collecting a check for a minute so i don't feel that bad they had exclusivity contracts you signed one yeah I'm assuming you had to have when well what what part when I left I don't I while I was there well the the thought that I again with you the guys like lady like like all of these folks I'm like okay so they had i know so they had you have your ip right and then you have like we never owned any ip that we made there that's what i've always that's what was crazy so that's what was like and the exclusivity to them to create content exclusively for them no so we could go make a youtube channel we could go do whatever we wanted which is amazing flexibility which is great flexibility a lot of people did that and i was like how do you have the fucking time i'm trying to build a platform here to do that right i think their downfall was like oh okay this thing is working try guys is working

lady likes working well if they leave we still have it and we'll just plug in other people and i think that was their biggest downfall was like, no, no, no, no. That's what I say when I mean the people made that place. It's like, I get you guys are trying to get another gay Asian guy. Yeah. They're trying to create franchises like they did it with Worth It. They like did Worth It UK and it like didn't do so well. I didn't even know they did a UK.

Exactly. And then they yeah, they really didn't do great when they realized we weren't just talent. They wanted us to be like, what do you want, kid? All right, we'll make it happen. And then we could replace you if you don't do what we say. Like they wanted to be a studio. So that's why you have to remember at the end of the day, like I don't shit on them because they're company. They're looking out for their shareholders, not looking out for little old me. Well, and it's also, you know, if you're making, I think, feature films or one-off projects, that's different versus serial content around either a particular topic and or a particular person or group of people. That doesn't work in the same way.

When you swap out the lead. Or when you change the topic that people have come to know or the premise that people have come to know and be comfortable with. Yeah, I don't really watch or know too much of what they're up to. I know nothing now. Yeah, I don't know what direction they're headed in now, but from just like little industry chats here and there. It's a lot of bring Tom Holland on to interview him

while he cuddles puppies. Yeah, it's like keep the classics that they can and then I think behind the scenes they're still trying to lean into like studio stuff. Well and everything's so different. Yeah. Like I can't remember the last time I saw a BuzzFeed quiz. It's been a long time.

That's a really good point. I don't even know. I did that shit all the time in college. That's how we got our news though. Well I actually think their news is now probably the most reputable thing oh you're talking about like actual news yeah yeah i meant just like our pop culture news oh sure it was like oh how did you know what like kardashian was wearing i'm still seeing actually the way i'm seeing buzzfeed most now is my like twitter oh yeah update same

and then they're just posting the article as like a thread exactly which is like which i'm not even clicking great how are you making yeah no their news team and based out of new york really did some dope shit yeah done some heavy hitting stuff they have yeah like made us legit which is cool you mentioned when we interviewed you for our blog that people have this perception that if you're on the internet and you're successful and you have hundreds of thousands or millions of subscribers that you are rolling in money oh my god it's like so when we google you problem such a problem google decides that your net worth is between 1 million and 15 million what what a spectrum wow which you

told us in the blog was definitely not true no so it's still not true misconceptions do general public have about you and your work and your money here's the thing here's what's crazy i've made i have made over a million dollars in my lifetime yeah I I do not have it you know why because I have to live I have to I live in LA you have to pay your agent I have to pay my employees I have to pay for this house I have to pay for food like the cost of living to produce a project that's hopefully maybe gonna make money I spent so much of my personal money on a documentary last year that thankfully we will link it it's fantastic was sold and is going to be coming out later this year in the festival circuit hopefully bought next year

but like that risk could have put me in financial ruin oh tens if not hundreds if not millions of dollars i was still crowdfunding for a short film last year i raised ten thousand dollars to crowdfund a short film it's not like i'm definitely still compared to the rest of the country probably doing great right compared to la no no no no no yeah i am churning i am getting my wheel turned i'm not vacationing in fucking peru although if anyone wants to like find me there and sugar-drying me i'm completely available i've got great feet i've been giving free feet this entire podcast oh my god we didn't even think about it that's literally the one thing i refuse you're gonna have to put a blur out i'm sorry literally every three months i just go and search my name on wiki feet just to

make sure we have what's your rating no i don't have a wiki oh wow i haven't checked mine no one fuck with no one do it no i like i will know then that truly i have a made it and b can die but you know it's us if we do it i don't know men are creepy yeah but you know what guess how much money i've made from men paying me for my feet photos you do the feet photos i have we not talked about this great let me let me tell you something. Now I'm putting my feet under me because I'm like, I can't do it. Let me tell you a fun little story. I did not know this. We wanted to have somebody on the podcast to talk about this.

Oh, well, here she is. Okay, but I'm not a legit. Okay, here's how it started. I jokingly. Can I see your feet? Is that weird? Yeah, you're great. I have very small feet, which and big arches, which apparently is a thing.

Oh, I don't. I didn't know that. But my second toe is bigger than my first. Is there a market for that? I'm sure I've heard. Mine is too. That you either have to have the like most. You have great feet.

You either have to have like kind of perfect feet. Nasty. Or like disgusting feet. Yeah. OK, so here's how it started. OK. I jokingly posted like a picture or something. I was like feet. Floods. Yeah. Like on my story. Okay. So here's how it started. Okay. I jokingly posted like a picture or something. I was like, feet floods. Yeah. Like on my story. Okay. Floods of DMS of guys saying I'll pay for

pictures. And I was like, LOL, stop. Then I was like, prove it. And some of them actually sent me money. So I would like, no joke. I would just take off my shoe in the car, take a picture and send it to them on Instagram. I don't care. Here's a picture of my foot. Why the fuck do I care? Oh, can you show me your soles? All right stand this way yeah okay i'm getting 50 bucks here 100 bucks there i don't know venmo oh my god then as a joke on one of the podcasts i had made a joke of like what if i started an only fans but it's like my feet's only fans here comes the cat again i started it as a joke where it was literally like my toes holding a cup of coffee you're giving way too much and i would be like good morning and i would be holding a cup

of coffee with my feet i got 90 subscribers the first day i ever posted a picture i'm still like what was the price to subscribe ten dollars she made nine hundred dollars yeah is that how it works right 90 times 100 yeah there's two zeros I didn't ask math I still to this day am getting subscriptions and payments from OnlyFans for a joke that I did like five five photos are you still posting

I had a conversation with my bookkeeper today where he was like what is this and I was like oh oh F that's OnlyFans for my feet and he was like Kelsey what and I was like what are you doing it's it's legit you're like it's money yeah and i don't do anything i posted like five feet pictures as a joke yeah i thought the i mean i guess it makes sense yeah i thought the majority of your instagram would be women maybe there's 90 percent subscribers too but i have a guy in my DMS. I can show you where's my god I could show you my DMS. Hold on

Let me get see my DMS are closed for many reasons and this is honestly probably one of them We're getting feet feet updates live y'all This is the most unhinged podcast we've ever done. Is it probably it, this is fun. This is like my. Usually we're like pseudo fake professionals. She's pulling out her tablet. Okay. Here's a guy. Right. Oh my God.

Can I read this out loud? Are you okay with that? Yeah. Oh my God. Okay. So she, she has. Wait. Okay.

This goes like back in time. Okay. I don't know how to look. How much though? Okay. So you posted this June 30th and it says no free feet and somebody said how much though t-h-o-u so how much thou how much very gentlemanly yeah and you said a hundred dollars okay when do you when you want to do this sounds a little like

me i'm thinking oh he'll pay for my postmates i'm such a huge fan of yours no way and then emoji god you such a flirt depends on what you want in your pic yeah definitely i've had like the biggest crush on you like forever from buzzfeed on like so beautiful as a person but i would love to see your souls i wish it was spelled with a u but it's not and then and then she goes to him for a night and he says we doing this and then the next day same message we doing this yes but you got a paypal or cash app first cash app and then it happened no and then oh must have maybe yes yes so he cashed up to me first oh my god then he said he responded to one of your things and he says i'm from philly and then i said i love philly so much bring your feet to philly i owe them a massage and then i

said i'm going to philly all the time this is great and then i can't believe those feet were in my city when can i see them you're like a dream girl this is so amazing oh my god we still doing this no feet question mark we doing this for your feet oh and a picture of hippo and then i said i'm waiting on my cash upper venmo and then he said we what do you know we're doing this goddess goddess with uh one d uh thank you god for not making me attracted to feet he sends her a meme i don't get it i you just then he said beautiful feet what's your venmo when will i see how beautiful your feet are, goddess? Look at those feet. This is

what I'm talking about. Men are so easy to get money from if you just allow it to happen. Little beans. And why do I care? Like I said, my feet aren't fucking special. You know that Mr.

Philadelphia is here right now welcome mr philadelphia um i will not give you my foot thanks boo break but if you want to break your coat a little bit twenty five hundred dollars she's expensive they're slightly hairy like some of these guys yeah my toes can get a little oh i shaved them i refused to shave them for most of the summer because i was like it's you know it's my natural feet and then you're like it's hot some of them like to be fin domed have you ever had a fin dom on your pod that's also on the on the list i might have a a person or two to introduce you to but also try to get miss mistress justine cross oh she would absolutely do it

i got her on the try guys pod yeah and she was on she was on the try guys yeah she's a pal so try guys game time yeah try guys game time try it okay okay got feet oh my god i can't believe that okay transitioning transition do people expect you to be a lot richer than you actually are or like have false expectations speaking of like parasocial relationships yeah like do they expect certain things out of like your career or you i think i because i'm pretty transparent and i've done like podcast episodes about it i've done like stories and stuff about yeah you have it that I've been like pretty open I think it's an assumption right but it's also not something a random person just kind of like comes up and talks to me about okay I think talk about money yeah and I think where it gets weird is if like someone will dm me and be like can you please

donate to this thing and then if I don't respond which i don't see like 90 of them anyway i have to like find them they'll follow up with like you're a bitch you can at least give me 20 like blah blah blah blah and i'm like do you think i've got or here's a perfect example i made a tiktok series about sidewalk shopping for furniture where we would find really cool pieces and we would either refurbish them and like use them or we would donate them. But it was something that like me and my best friend just love to do on Saturday or Sunday. We would like drive around town. We'd go get a smoothie. Where's her TV show? And people fucking loved it on TikTok. Great. And people fucking loved it on TikTok.

Great. Then I started getting comments like, you need to leave this for people who really need furniture. I'm like, people who really need furniture aren't driving around Beverly Hills looking for sidewalk furniture, number one. And number two, then I would get comments of like, why are you sidewalk shopping if you're driving around in a Tesla? And I'm like, how do you think i got this tesla do you think it was by donating money to people who yell at me on the internet the amount of people who say to me in my comments you don't own your house you must

not be a millionaire your hair looks like that then you're not a millionaire what what's the fucking deal with the hair it's always that because it's it's it's blatant but veiled blatant veiled misogyny yeah right and it's the it's the what we expect uh some woman to do with her hair or what we expect rich or millionaire to look like and you're like how do you think i became a millionaire literally my priority i'm wearing a ten dollar banana republic dress wow cute thank you i wear it all the time like great i wear it all the time i'm wearing freddy's my friend freddy's pants which i helped her clean out her closet lady like freddy yep lady like freddy love it i've cleaned out her closet for her so she gave me some stuff and this tank top which is probably from forever 21 that i've had for probably six years yep yeah there are there are things i will

go out yeah and show out for me too but it's it's those comments that i really was like you don't know my situation of like yeah donate to my thing and then i'm gonna call you a bitch yeah yeah or like you you're you're taking opportunity away from other people in some degree i completely get that that and by another degree we were like donating items right you weren't taking there isn't a scarcity it's a fun hobby yeah that trust me there is not a scarcity of furniture on the side of the sidewalks in los angeles yeah so i guess that's where it felt like people felt like i was supposed to be something well and it's a lot of again the parasocial relationship of it felt like people felt like i was supposed to be something well and it's

a lot of again the parasocial relationship of it all where people think they can comment about your life and your choices because everybody's like i know you and it's like no do you you know a little bit yeah but you know what i choose to show you i don't know what the inside of my bones look like if you want to you can do it me you produced a lot on your own what is that process like financially because you just talked about like yeah go fund me for yeah i fully was like i i'm gonna make a documentary about this thing and in order to get up there because it was during covid and we couldn't fly i bought an rv i I renovated the RV while I was renovating the RV to be drivable to go up to make the documentary. I made content about it. Then people were like, why are you wasting time building an RV? If you're

going to go make a documentary, I was like, guys, I bought this with my own money. Also, I'm making content to afford the money I'm about to make. Exactly. And that is really how a lot of my processes work, right? Is I'll do certain things where I'm like, this is kind of cheesy, but I'll do it because now I can for a month go and I just shot my second doc up in Canada. I didn't have to ask for any financial assistance on that one because... Thank you.

Because I was able to get enough smaller deals to say hey here's my proof of concept someone now fund the feature version of this so now that's what i'm working on with that so it's a lot of mediocre risk high reward but it's because i've been in this industry for 12 12 years and made contacts and made and you can navigate and i know how to do it i'm not being dumb and like i'm gonna put my whole life savings into this thing and i'm gonna fucking hope it makes it well that's what we're told though is like if you truly believe like all of i hate when people do this i watch shark tank still all the time and people go into shark tank and they're like yeah i've like you know refinanced my house multiple times and

like my kid is not going to college and they're and every time they come in with a job they're like well you don't care about your business and i'm like maybe maybe it's possible that this person needs money to pay rent yeah and maybe they can also care about their business 100 as opposed to completely sacrificing any sort of not even comfort but like safety that's such an america thing it well it's the it's like if the founder's not working on sunday it's not going to be successful i'm like okay so you want to die by the time you're 40 from a stress heart attack cool cool cool right enjoy that money and well in the idea that if you aren't emotionally financially socially all in then you don't care or that it's like how do you think

anyone i could have gone on a tangent i won't go no i was just gonna say like how do you think anyone like so so many of us think that like people were come from nothing stories became billionaires when it's like this is generational wealth this is like a leg up this is this is being projected to us and also then when men write about it it's um a success story it's when you want to suck your mouse dick and then when women have the audacity to talk about anything money it's like why aren't you donating more you have yeah or like why don't you fucking donate to my right my birthday fund right right yeah we give men so many more luxurious assumptions that we

don't get women right oh i'm keep i'm going on that now where it looks like women write romance novels men write epics yeah they're like they're there could be romance in star wars but it's not a romance and women are like that's cute you're writing your novel on the beach during your vacation which by the way the most like fiscally successful genre of book is the romance novel is it now so we're doing it to ourselves i like it it's the romance we support ourselves we write it yep oh i have this whole section in the book about how we weaponize women's altruism for that reason like or we're like scam artists or like mlms yeah yeah yep well i can't wait to read it i'm pre-order now pre-order now thank you thanks for the blog december 27th you got it right after yes come on come on merry christmas merry chrysler. Merry Chrysler. Merry Chrysler.

Let's talk about views and revenue. Okay. So your average views on a BuzzFeed video were like 14 million. Yeah. Much lower on your personal channel. For sure. What emotionally was that like? for sure what emotionally was that like and fiscally was what was the transition there so the era like we talked about a facebook was 27 million views to 100 million views was like what was it the guys ladies underwear video was like 110 something nuts yeah like it was a bummer to me if i wasn't getting 10 million views per video on facebook that was my bread and butter were you like was that something that the company was putting on you or were you putting that on yourself both okay it was it was i knew i it was so easy to me so when it in what way of just like i knew what people were looking for i knew how to shoot it i knew what jokes they were looking for.

I knew the identities I was hitting. I was hitting all of like the age groups that I needed to. It was so easy for me to make a successful video. Thank you for owning that. Like I appreciate it. You're like, yeah, well,

I was like, what would you guys have done if I didn't do this? Like you would have figured out something else. I'm sure. But it wouldn't have been this. Right. I was the person that made this thing happen. And so when the era of like Facebook views were no more it was okay I had shifted into this

podcasting then we were getting on the charts for podcasting and that was so exciting that was the era of that then I was like okay I'm gonna try podcasting crush it on podcast try that and then I left and I was like I don't want to make YouTube videos but I will because I want a creative outlet and YouTube was never my vertical YouTube was something I had to do as a person working there as a producer the goal of starting my YouTube channel was not for views it was genuinely like home videos and stuff that i wanted to like talk about and remember but of course you're like compare and despair but then you go wait i was working at fucking buzzfeed which is literally like a platform to make youtube videos and now i'm also

a bunch of followers and a bunch of funneling yeah yeah right and money massive amounts of money yeah so the goal was never to be a youtuber i'm making air quotes i just wanted to make content and so that's been my outlet for like my funsies like little vlogs and my podcast which does attribute to a massive amount of my income per year I mean as you should probably know and it is that it doesn't matter to me I mean it doesn't matter to you like views and what I get I don't even know what I make back in YouTube videos I don't yeah yeah I don't look at any of that because it's not significant enough for me to put my time and energy in my that's not my job. My job is to

be a creator. And I would rather put my efforts into something like TikTok, right? That'll get me brand deals or connections and partnerships that is where I think things are heading and what I'm good at versus trying to do something I've kind of already done and the same goes for facebook it doesn't feel like a challenge to you anymore it's kind of like okay if i wanted to be a youtuber i'd be putting myself into such a box it'd be such a box to just do youtube videos now after all that i've done i'm like i'm literally making two movies right now i'm writing my second book i'm two podcasts like you can't do all that and be a full-time youtuber you just can't that was my next question because you can do youtube plus a bunch of other things but for you you either see

it as like you go all in that's why okay i get the views and treatment that i do with my youtube channel because it's not my main job right you're not funneling your energy towards that no you happier for it fuck yeah yeah it was fun i did it i got there at the heyday i started making youtube videos in 2010 oh my god yeah and it's like i did it it was fun i got the millions of views you know in my first lazy sunday was 2005 right like first real youtube video no my yeah something like that and my lazy sunday was 2005 right like first real youtube video no my yeah something like that and my lazy sunday was like one of the first youtube i did shit girlfriend's day in 2010 which had 10 million views in 2010 it was un that's part of when like going viral was like it wasn't even a word yeah you're right people were like what is happening and then it was like

okay cool when every if you went viral everyone saw it yeah you were on the fucking news you were oh yeah yeah now it's like who isn't chocolate rain yeah it's like make making us make right show me you can you can go viral once every couple days at this point exactly and it does still doesn't make you money no it doesn't that's the other thing that i think a lot of people don't realize is i can get four five million views off a tiktok video it doesn't translate i know people are like oh you must i'm like no i'm not even part of the creator fund me neither well i think i got kicked out for talking about mushrooms that'll do pig that'll do yeah for me i'm like i just it's like such a small amount of money yeah that it's not worth

risking no uh dip in views because there was that whole conspiracy theory for a while but you do brand deals we do brand deals but i think a lot of people think oh you're putting all this content on instagram or tiktok and i'm like that's to get money you're also from somewhere else you're also a business think about the're also a business. Think about the, you're a business. No, no,

no, but no, I agree. I'm saying, think about like the, the 15 year old kid in Wisconsin, who's just making Tik TOKs for free, getting millions of views,

just being hot with a good jawline. I'm like, that man is making no money. He's not being as sent. He's lucky. If people are doing tiktok dances because dances are actually not trademarkable oh do you know this no i listened to a whole podcast episode about this about like the kid who invented the floss and then what was

it fortnight like took the floss he gets no money off of it i'm just i don't know i don't know i'm sure he is i'm sure you just said flossing of Fortnite. And I know. No, but like Fortnite took it and he gets no like IP compensation. Yeah, but he probably made a lot of money. I'm talking about how he did get trademarked. But it's also I'm like, give the man is due. Yeah.

Credit where credit's due. Capitalism. What's that thing? Everyone says no freedom no freedom under capitalism yeah or no i get no feminism under capitalism which i mean it's not wrong but also you're not gonna solve capitalism sorry thank you no i'm not sorry no and i talk about that all the time i'm like you're right there is no true feminism under capitalism however this is the current system that we're in

and while we fight to change the system you still have to pay your rent and you still have to buy your groceries and i would rather get a lot of money and then fucking change everything than uh live very uh uh sad and lonely and upset and poor make that into a fucking TikTok clip, Austin. That's the deal. Facts. And it can be done without exploiting people. Hey, yeah, speaking your truth now.

We are speaking your truth. I thought you were going to hey, yeah. And I was like, we can go to hey, yeah. Hey, yeah. What do you wish people better understood about anxiety, depression depression and other mental illnesses good question for the people that have been that are in it i would say it is possible to still live a completely fulfilling life that is worth living and to people who don't understand it or don't live with it or have never struggled with it you should still fucking care because guaranteed someone very

close to you in your life does struggle with it and we need allies as much as we need the people that are going through it to make any kind of change we We need people that believe us, that support us, that fight for us, that help us as much as we need the people who have it to speak out about it and give themselves love and self care and hope. If you were to give one piece of advice to Kelsey, the day before she starts at BuzzFeed? What would you tell her? Don't do coke in the bathroom. What?

HR? I don't work there anymore. No. That was one time. What would I tell her? One time my ass. I would probably say like don't get as drunk as you

are going to get at all these parties. Not because of HR reasons. That really didn't matter. But you want to remember a little bit more. I feel like you want to have more memories here. But if you keep drinking. I was like what? I can just drink and get paid?

What? Yeah like drink a little less at all the events so that you remember a little bit more that's a that's a life advice that i give myself all the time is just man i wonder what it would have been like if i got sober sooner but then you can't regret you know no so well and it brought you to becoming sober because at some point you were like this can't happen i still get dms to this day you really oh yeah i love that one yeah this is a good day today today he's still there is he yeah it's fucking hot it was it's one of my favorite videos oh me too it's like a comfort video it is me too i'm like oh you beautiful beautiful mess that's so funny hundred something drinks that day sips yeah it was a lot it was a lot we'll link it yeah she

and eugene drank a drink from every single u.s state like the signature drinks and there were what four dry states yeah so you had water at the dry states every place else was either the signature cocktail beer cider or wine we had to do shots yeah i forgot about the shots too yeah cocktails yeah yeah massive like hurricanes mojitos mojitos yeah long island iced tea oh what was it uh i think i slept for like 24 hours did you. Did you? Yeah. Yeah. When it hurts you to think back on a memory, there's some somatic like PTSD. I probably still

need to work through. I just love the video because at one point you guys are all like, yeah, we're going to do it. And then you remember like drink responsibly and you're like drink responsibly. Oh yeah. Don't do what we're about to do. But please watch it over and over and over exactly that was like right after that video i think was when i was working on starting my own wine

label i didn't know you did this oh i was like ready to like have my own wine line like do your own wine line now and do like can you do non-alcoholic wines is that even possible yes it's very good there are companies out there that are fucking doing it really good and i hope to do some brand deals with them i've done some hi i'm calling this into existence but to run a beverage company oh no that's an alcoholic beverage company too logistical nightmare i've seen it happen wow my ac really kicked on there really did i was like what the hell is there a holy truck driving through the fucking front door kelsey where can people find oh my god at kelsey darrow on all the things and come please buy her yeah buy the book the second one will be out soon i haven't done a release day yet

um and come with a title yet i think it's gonna be called it fucking hurts staying with the fucking title yeah yeah yeah come come come to the dark side it's very fun over here yay thanks for having me so many chat with you thank you bye bye bye thanks again to kelsey for joining us we've linked her website in our show notes which has links to all of her incredible work and if you're someone who experiences anxiety check out her book don't fucking panic at your favorite indie bookstore. It's truly such a great resource. We're grateful to have you here, Financial Feminists, and we'll catch you soon.

Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, her first 100K podcast. Marketing and administration by Karina Patel, Cherise Wade, Alina Helzer, Paulina Isaac, Sophia Cohen, Khalil Demaz, Elizabeth McCumber, Beth Bowen, and Amanda LeFue. Research by Arielle Johnson. Audio engineering by Austin Fields. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton. Photography by Sarah Wolf. And theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound.

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