Financial Feminist - 95. The Economic and Social Cost of Not Supporting Women with Carly Zakin and Danielle Weisberg (theSkimm)

Episode Date: June 20, 2023

The stats start hopeful –– more women in college, more women in the workforce, more women in the c-suite –– but life for women in the United States continues to feel like two steps forward and ten steps back. Recently, theSkimm wanted to better understand how women were feeling about things like job prospects, healthcare, parenting, mental health, and more. So, they partnered with The Harris Poll to conduct a study of women from all different demographics to create their truly eye-opening report on the State of Women Today. Today, Carly Zakin and Danielle Weisberg join host Tori Dunlap to break down that report and talk about the ways we can work day to day to make the lives of women in the United States better and more equitable. Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at https://herfirst100k.com/start-here-financial-feminist-podcast  Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

So we're talking about a $3.1 trillion at risk to our U.S. economy if we don't figure out how to keep women in the workforce. It's one thing to say, of course, I want to feel better. I want my friends to feel better. I want every woman I know to feel more supportive. Of course I do. But that's not what is going to get change made. Change is going to come because there is a huge risk to our economy, to the size of our population,

to work as we know it if we do not figure out how to support women. Hello, financial feminists. Welcome back to the show. Hello. I'm excited to see you as always. Today's guests are incredible and probably don't need much of a setup if you've ever gotten one of their emails or follow their social accounts. We are talking about their state of women poll that the SCIM put together. And let me tell you, it's a doozy. If you're wondering what the state of women is and you identify as a woman, it probably is similar to that. It probably feels very similar to your lived experience. And so we're excited to delve into how women are feeling, what issues we're facing, both as individuals and as women in general society, and what the fuck we can do about it.

And today's guests are the co-founders and co-CEOs of The Skim, a digital media company dedicated to succinctly giving women the information they need to make confident decisions and help them live smarter. So today we're talking to Carly Zakin and Danielle Weisberg. The former news producers disrupted the media landscape over a decade ago with the launch of The Skim and have built a brand that continues to be a trusted source for a community of millions. Today, The Skim ecosystem includes The Daily Skim, The Daily Skimm Weekend, Skimm Money,

and Skimm Your Life newsletters, 9 to 5-ish with the Skimm podcast, the Skimm mobile app, and Skimm Studios, which creates innovative in-house video and audio content. The Skimm's first book, How to Skimm Your Life, was released in June 2019 and debuted at number one on the New York Times bestseller list, Casual. Carly and Danielle are incredibly impressive, but we really brought them on to talk about the state of women report that they conducted. The SCIM partnered with the Harris Poll to conduct a proprietary study that explores the state of women today, understand their visions for the future, and identify what can help them get there. The survey was conducted with 3,000 women from a wide cross-section of

backgrounds and life stages and provides data-backed insights on the state of women in society, money, career, family, and well-being. We go through what the state of women truly is like today and talk about how we can navigate these challenges while also working together to advocate for the betterment of all women. So let's go ahead and get into it. But first, everywhere, all the time. Kraken, see what crypto can be. Not investment advice. Crypto trading involves risk of loss. Kraken's registration details at kraken.com slash legal slash ca dash pru dash disclaimer. Are you in New York? Is that where you're at? Okay, cool. I lived in Brooklyn for two months last year and I absolutely loved it. Wait, where are you now? I'm in Seattle. I was born and raised

in the Pacific Northwest. I don't know if I knew that. My husband is from there. Oh, good amount of time there. Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful up here. I am thrilled to have you both. I have been huge admirers of your work and of everything you're doing at The Skimm. Can you each talk a little bit about your background and how and why you created The Skimm? And Carly, if you could go first. I think I might take up some of our mutual airtime. I grew up in New York City and was lifelong just lover of news. I just wanted to work in news my whole life. I was able to get internships at a young age. Coincidentally, didn't know at the time, but somebody named Danielle Weisberg was interning for the same people, sometimes in the same summer, and I didn't know her. So we were like ships in a night. Then after college, I worked at NBC full time. I first started at CNBC, moved over to MSNBC, and then moved to Washington, DC, producing for long form documentaries for NBC and then came back to New York. I came up kind of a producer route. I loved what I did. I

loved who I worked for. My parents used to joke that like, I wanted to be the superintendent of 30 Rock because I just loved that building. And I loved like the, you know, it was not somebody who was like, I don't want to be in a corporate environment. Like I actually really enjoyed it. For me, I, you know, I graduated as a Danielle in 2008 at a time where we watched so many people lose their jobs and we were covering that. And I think it's always important to want to have like your boss's job one day and like to like have a goal in mind and to have a path in front of you. And all of a sudden, like there was no path. And, you know, we both got to do things and probably get exposed to things at a younger age or younger part of our career because we were a cheaper labor and there was so much happening and kind of changing in the industry. And so as I was trying

to figure out, well, what does my path here look like? How do I make money? How do I have like a longevity to what I do? And also I'm interested in the business side. How do I combine that? Ultimately, it led to like really a conversation of do I quit go to grad school go into debt to go to grad school and then not really sure what I want to do after that or do I start something um and so that that's ultimately what led us to the skim but I'll let Danielle tell her skimmed version well a lot of overlap as as Carly said. I think, well, one difference, I'm from Chicago. So I grew up thinking about, do I want to go into politics or I want to go into media? And I think ultimately wanted to do a little bit of both, which meant I graduated

college, went to work for NBC News in DC and loved the adrenaline, loved being close to, you know, especially in 2008. It was a really interesting time and fun time to live in D.C. And I think we both, in terms of graduating when no one could get jobs, if you did have a job, you were really cheap labor. So you got to do a lot of things way before we probably should have. And I think what that did is I think really fed this kind of organic hustle that I always had, which is I knew I wanted to have a big career. I knew I wanted to make a big impact. I didn't know exactly what that meant, but I knew that waiting 10 years for one job to open up probably was not going to kind of satiate me. And that's really what I found in working at a big company.

And I say a big company because sometimes that's just the life of any big company, right? Whether we're talking about a media company in one network versus the other, it's all the same, right? There are so many positions and you have to make yourself stand out. And I think in the process of doing that, I really learned that I loved and do love writing. I love audience building and I love business. And I don't think that when we were 25 thinking about our career, it was certainly not, well, let me take this hugely because that's the best way to do all of it. But it was more like I don't have enough money to go to, at the time it was law school. I never would have thought about business school. Because if I went to law school, I probably would have done a degree in media law and it would not

have been to work at a big law firm where you pay back those loans. So that for me just was not going to kind of get my return on investment. I never would have thought that I could even get through business school thinking about, well, I'm a creative person. So that's not for me, to kind of get my return on investment. I never would have thought that I could even get through business school thinking about, well, I'm a creative person, so that's not for me, which now I would challenge that. And so it's kind of like the process of elimination, I think, almost that we got to the point where we were like, we want to do more. We feel like we're ready to do more. We can't do that in some of the more traditional ways. So instead, we're going to quit our jobs and start something from our couch.

And honestly, it was received as crazy as it sounds. Our parents thought we were kind of nuts. I think what's interesting, though, is that none of our bosses that we used to work for did. They were very excited for us and were huge supporters. So fast forward 10 and a half years later, the Skimm is a digital media company dedicated to making it easier to live smarter

for women throughout the country who are facing a lot of pressures, a lot of demands, and need to make good decisions in critical areas of your life, whether it's what's going on in the world, what's going on with your wallet, what's going on with your career, what's going on with your health. And all that we have in common, if it's just one thing, is that no one has enough time. So the SCIM makes sure that you are armed with enough of the right information in these key areas of your life to make the decision that is right for you.

Yeah, there is so much overlap in both of your stories to mine and entrepreneurship and almost that it's the only path forward for me. It felt like for me, it was like, okay, entrepreneurship is inevitable at this point because it's the only thing that makes sense with where I'm at in my life, what my goals are, what my needs are. And then also this draw to, you know, impact people and to change as much as I personally can the landscape for women, which leads me to, oh, this white paper. Okay, let's talk about this. So one of the things, the biggest reason we wanted to have you on in addition to the incredible work that you guys are doing with the SCIM, which myself and my team have followed you for a very long time. Karina, who is our COO, who is acting as our podcast producer today, is so excited because she's been reading the SCIM

devoutly for like years. Thank you. Thanks, Karina. She's like, I'm sure like, you know, crying in the club right now. But can you tell us why you decided to gather the data for this report? And what was the hope of this information gathered? Like, what did you want to do with it? So when we think about, you know, our State of Women report, it's really a data-driven, action-oriented initiative. And why I say that is we felt like how many reports have you kind of like read and glossed over?

This was not just something to read and put aside or to be like, oh, yeah, I saw that headline, but I kind of didn't remember what it said. And that meant that the journey to actually doing this report, which we did with Harris because it was a data, they ran the poll of the thousands of women that we talked to. And that was in combination with years and years of hearing from our audience every single day, of hearing these anecdotal stories, of reporting on the ways that women feel just like it's too much. And we felt like it is so easy to ignore this because as a society, we're so good at that, right? And there's actually not, it's always hard to change systems, but it's especially kind

of easy to put the need for change aside when the systems were never built to support women to begin with. And so we recognize that this was going to have to be a combination of quantitative, qualitative feedback, put in a report because you can't argue with the data, and then also distributed to our audience with the same kind of wit and tone that we do anything and really make it a campaign around the state of women, which to your point, it's not good, right? It didn't take a report to suddenly uncover that it's not good. And that's what we really want to talk about. I think that the areas and the depth to it is shocking.

And that's really what our hope is with this, is that you can't ignore it. That once you see it, it's impossible not to do something about it. And that doesn't mean because of the goodness of your heart, right? Because I think if that was the case, then there would be so much societal change to begin with. It is about the economic impact of this report. So we're talking about a $3.1 trillion at risk to our US economy if we don't figure out how to keep women in the workforce. And that is the lens that I challenge everyone to view this report through, because it's one thing to say, of course, I want to feel better. I want my friends to feel better. I want every woman I know to feel more supportive. Of course I do. But that's not what is going to get change

made. Change is going to come because there is a huge risk to our economy, to the size of our population, to work as we know it if we do not figure out how to support women. Well, can we talk about that for a second? Because I think that's so illuminating and connects so well to what I do because we should just be able to be like, women aren't doing well, let's fix it. But instead we exist in a capitalist society where we have to make it literally a financial issue

for people to care. And my work, right, I talk about how money affects every part of our lives and how if you want anything, whether that's having children, donating to causes you believe in, starting a business, right, you need the money to do so. And it's very similar to like something like abortion access where people think this is a social issue. And it's 100% a social issue. Women should have the right to do what they want with their own bodies before we even bring the money into it. But then in addition, right, it is a financial issue. We know that most people who terminate pregnancies already have children and can't afford another. So does that piss you off? Because it

pisses me off a little bit. Like, I know that this is what we have to do in order to play the game is to like, say, you know, the, you know, the economic impact of these things. But I'm also just like, I'm a person and my sisters are people and I want them to be able to be taken care of. Does that anger you? You know, it's funny. I don't know if we've ever been asked that. And in some ways, I feel as a person, of course, it angers me. But as a founder and CEO that, you know, we've been running this brand for 10 and a half years, I just feel like it's just like, I'm tired, right? So if this is the argument that's going to get through, then like, I want the thing that's going to work the best.

Right. Yeah, you have to play the game as much as you can. So you mentioned the shocking, like piece of this whole report. And as I was reading it too, honestly, it felt very true to my experience. So I don't know how shocking it felt for me. But Carly, what was the most shocking piece of data that you all uncovered? You know, I think to your point, we knew, like, why did we do the report? We knew it wasn't good. We knew the state of women was not going to be like, guys, everything is great. But we're doing so well. Like it could not be better. But we, I think that the overwhelming response of how bad it is and how bad people know

it is and articulate it or articulating how bad it is kind of floored me. And maybe that was just me being naive, but I think there was, you know, two stats that really like got me. I think one was that 83% of women are like, I am so tired of society telling me like what my role should be. And I, like, I hadn't ever thought about it in that phrasing, you know, like we just, Danielle just said, she's tired. Like you're expressing your own frustration, Tori. Like I think hearing 83% of us like feel in some way, a similar feeling of like, I'm so sick of this. That is just very jarring. Like that is, that is a number you can't argue with. I think that the other one that really like we've talked a lot about is actually 71% of her self-identified as chief worry officer. When we first saw that response, we kind of laughed. We're like, cute, cute name. And then

we were like, wait, this is not funny. We were like, what is that actually saying? And we have joked, we want to see more women in the C-suite. This is not the C title we want her to have. And chief worry officer, like, well, what does that mean? It means that she has all the burdens on her shoulders. She's not sharing those burdens. So she's worried about financial stability. 87% of her are worried about that. She is worried about children that she may or may not be having.

She is worried about parents that she may or may not have to be taking care of. She is worried about her job. She is worried about the world. She is worried about future political leaders. She is worried about social issues that she cares about. She is bearing the brunt of so much on her shoulders. And then you look at stats that say one in five are dealing with a mental health crisis, whether that's anxiety or depression. That is really, really, really alarming. And I think those two, you know,

the chief worry officer and the 83% to me saying like, I'm sick of this just really got me and are the things that I kind of just keep flashing in my head. Yeah. Again, I'm just like, yeah, I worry all the time. Yeah. I mean, we all do. We all do. We all have different situations. And it's like, I just sort of have always thought like, well, that's just kind of what happens. Like, my mom did it. Like, I'm going to do it.

And it's like, that's why. I weirdly feel, yeah, bizarre quoting my own book, but in the research that I had, I realized that I had written this sentence that was like, women have to pay for and deal with all of the problems that cisgender straight white men created in their society, but didn't account for, right? Like all of the problems that they, that are exist within society that any marginalized group has to deal with are perpetuated or created by the very people that are like, I don't have to deal with this at all. And I was just thinking, cause I, I want to go back to that. Like, I'm like, I've been thinking about like that Meghan Markle moment in the interview where he's like, no one's asked me if I'm okay. I'm like in a totally different way. Like no one's asked me if I'm like, how do I feel about this?

Right. It's and I think it's like what you said that we should be angry. We should be just like, well, doesn't it count that it's just like I'm a person and I contribute to society. So this stuff should be fixed. I'm a person and I contribute to society. So this stuff should be fixed. I think that there is, and I think this comes out really clearly in this report. There is so much of what needs to be fixed that it's almost like we can't even waste

energy on that anymore. That it's past the point of screaming. It's past the point of feeling like if we just make this better known, it's going to happen because we all live on social media, right? It's not like any of these things are new. What I think is newer for our generation is how much women contribute to the economy and how big women are in this workforce. And so I think that's actually the thing that gives me hope here, which is, yes, it's amazing that we are seeing from this women are getting more involved in their local elections, that they are considering, you know, potentially running for office are getting more involved in their local elections, that they are considering potentially running for office or getting more involved with civic engagement.

And yes, we want more of that, of course. But I think that at the end of the day, what gives me the biggest hope that we will make that there will be change is just because there is too much financially at risk for our country to be competitive if we don't. Well, and you mentioned in previous interviews that there are larger financial implications to not helping women stay in the workforce, to not getting proper health care, to this lack of pay transparency. What is that ripple effect of... Yeah. And this is the thing I talk about all the time and I'm obsessed with because I feel like it is so glaringly obvious that as a society, we have to have people in the workforce. We need them to do a lot of jobs to pay for things like social security. You need a birth rate that is staying or growing in order to

support the whole from baby boomers retiring and leaving the workforce. Who's going to take that up? We are predominantly the children of boomers. And so our families, our structure, our ability to have kids that are then going to enter the workforce all works together. So you talk about things like China or you look at Japan declining birth rates. That to me is the biggest frustration I have, which is everyone talks about one day we'll be able to retire, right? Look at what's going on in France.

You cannot have that unless you have people in the workforce. You need young people to make these, you know, capitalist societies work. And to make young people, you have to have women who are having children. And I don't understand. This is the part that I think, you know, kind of really gets me going. I don't understand why people are shocked that like women are waiting longer to have kids. Kids are expensive and you have to, if you're not part of a society where it is mandated that you are getting healthcare, you are getting time off, you are getting support, then like, of course you would take a while to think about that decision. And so I think to me that that idea of you need a workforce because you needed to take care, those people in that life stage are taking care of all of the other aspects of society

is the easiest response and also the one that gets overlooked. Yeah. I joke with my partner all the time. If I could be a dad, I would do that in a heartbeat. It's specifically about being a mother. And yet we're still the only quote unquote industrialized country that does not have any sort of federally mandated leave, which is insane. Insane. So there's so many incredible and just, again, eye-opening stats in here. We've touched a lot on this season of the podcast about motherhood and families. You were telling me already this stress that women feel of like, do I have children? Do I not?

And then, of course, what happens? Was there anything else unique you found about when you surveyed women about family or about family planning? I think there are kind of two things that jumped out at me. I think one was that 82% of her just felt overburdened and felt like nobody was there to help them. And often, usually hear that when life changes happen and what is the biggest life change that can happen in her life is usually starting a family. I think the second that, you know, was jarring to me, and I say that as somebody who doesn't yet have children, that over 60% of her are really sick of the super mom title. And, you know, Danielle, you were talking about this yesterday. Like if you see one more Instagram ad of like people being like, you know, thank mom for

doing it all. It's like, why? And, you know, I like, obviously that hits you in a different way, but I think what we are hearing is that, you know, whether or not she has a family or not, and we should say like a very large percentage of her are choosing not to have children, very much choosing to go child free. And that, you know, is a choice. And like that, you know, again, like we support that choice, but to feel that she, no matter what her choices are pulled in a thousand different directions and like expected to be, that's what's leading to a financial crisis for her, a mental health crisis for her,

and a career crisis for her. And so again, without having this structural support, whether at a local level at her company or at a federal level to be able to take leave as things come up, like having a family or going through a loss or whatever that is for you, or getting pay equity, like all of these things are causing her to drown. And I think what we are hearing from our audience is those especially who have started families are really feeling it right now. And again, let's talk about the audience that we're referencing here. This is an audience that entered the workforce around or in 2008. Not a good time. This is an audience that likely started to settle down or maybe have their first children or have children under the age of five during a pandemic. Not a good time.

And this is an audience that is getting into the C-suite right now, like at a time when the economy, like, are we in a recession? Are we not? Like inflation, like all the things, again, not a good time. And so it's not like she's had any moment of thriving in her professional life since graduating college, if she's went to college. to college. And I think all of those are kind of adding up here. And again, it goes back to like why she identifies as the chief worry officer. But I also I want to call out, you know, these are all really depressing stats. And we're like looking at each other in camera, we're all nodding. And we're like, yeah, like, this is my next question, which is like, I don't want to move through life, knowing all of this and worrying even more about all of these stats I've just heard. So like, what do we do about it? But I actually, I think this is not meant to be a depressing study. And I actually, it's not. I think what came very, came out very loud and clear from our audience and from talking to her is she's like, I'm so sick of this that I'm going to be the one to change it.

Because guess what? Nobody has come to help change it for me. The government didn't come. My company didn't come. My male partners haven't come. I'm going to change it. And we have so many different anecdotes from amazing women in our audience that have shared with us everything from small things to I'm now just saying no more and keeping track of that. And I'm actually using like operational software that I use to be efficient at work at home to make sure that like I'm not overextending to bigger things of, you know, women who have come to us to help them advocate for their paid family leave policies at work. And we've created this amazing database called Show Us Your Leave of over 600 companies that have actually published their leave policies and in many cases changed them because of this movement. And she is helping to lead that. So I think what I want the takeaway to be when we talk about the state of women is it's not good and she is the one changing it. Yeah. What is something that each of us can do with this information now that we have it? So if somebody's listening, like from the perspective of individuals, but also the perspective of businesses,

like I'm thinking both as Tori Dunlap, but also the CEO of her first center K, like, how can I take this information and actually do something with it? So the biggest thing that I see is even though this is entitled the state of women, I think that this is should be like this should be entitled must read for men. I don't think that any change, any real change happens if we are just sharing this within women who feel the same way. And I think that that is the biggest, my biggest kind of fear in this. And in a lot of the times what gets shared or talked about is with people that, you know, feel the same way. And I think that that is actually where, and I've felt this, you know, anecdotally in my own life,

where if I, when I sent this to my friends, they were like, yeah, when I talked to it with, you know, different men in my life, they were like, yeah. When I talked to it with different men in my life, they were like, really? And I actually think that that is something that if there are people that you think would be surprised by this, those are the people that you need to share it with. And those people are not like, there's no male intent. It's just that they may not see it actually. And so part of this is everyone needs to see it in order for change to happen. You just had a great Freudian slip. You said no male intent.

Oh, no male intent. I love that. We should trademark that. But I think that, you know, if what we are looking at here is split up by categories, at here is split up by categories, like to help women in the workforce and to help women in terms of what's going on at home with your families, like men need to take leave. They need to take family leave and they need to show that as an example for a myriad of reasons. And that goes a really long way. I think it is, you it is thinking about pay gap and pay transparency. If you are a man, push for those policies, right? Just because it's not targeted at you, you are seeing where this is leading to. You are seeing, because you've read this report,

because you understand what's at stake in the economy, there is a vested interest in keeping women in the workforce. So stepping in, making sure that if not, it's kind of like, I don't need you. It would be nice to have emotional support, but we've all got places for that. This is like, you got to focus on this stuff, right? And this is about how you look at where your money goes, how you look at who's supporting your local communities, and what your companies that you work for do. Queer women are doing worse than straight women. So I would say also as a white woman, we have an obligation to advocate for our women of color, friends, colleagues, in addition to men advocating for women. Absolutely. And I think that's a really important point around pay transparency, which is how we know

these women are getting not what they deserve is because actually of pay transparency. And the more pay transparency. And in the more pay transparency we have, the more parity we have. And so, you know, what we have seen is that, you know, companies that there's actually a great external study that we quoted in our own state of women report that basically said that women and men who worked at companies that had pay transparency, women made either a dollar for every man's dollar or a dollar and one cent for every man's dollar. It's the pay scale study, right? They're actually located in Seattle. We've worked with them before. They're great. Yes, yes, yes. Exactly. And so it's a really

important point because I think it's like, well, what can you do? Well, one, if you are a man in a position of power, especially at a company, like making sure that there is pay transparency, making sure you know, like that your female colleagues and directs are getting paid fairly. And especially if you are, you know, a man or a woman who are white or identify as white, making sure that your colleagues that are people of color are also getting that transparency. And, you know, this is how we actually start creating the change. The other thing I would say too is like a, not a, there's no easy fixes, but this is a simple one, is during the pandemic, we all had to get flexible on how we worked. We all had to get really good

at this hybrid environment and we are seeing it like switch overnight, right? So there were, it was kind of like we all had to figure out how to work remotely. We did. We realized that in some ways that's actually a much better system to support working parents, that today's modern work environments were not set up to have two working parents and, you know, definitely not set up to have two working parents and definitely not set up to have women be working full time out of the home. And so let's look at what has worked about that and let's keep those things. I feel like when people and companies kind of get scared, the easiest answer is like, well, we're going to go back to what worked before and recognizing that what worked before didn't work for most people.

Yep. I have another question about like policy change, but I think it's pretty obvious. It's like advocating for paid family leave, advocating for gun control, advocating for increased minimum wage. Well, I actually, you know, I think one of the things to note about the SCIM is we're nonpartisan and we actually have a very politically diverse audience that we're really proud of. And I think, you know, it's something that, you know, we worked really hard to do and it's a very geographically diverse audience. I think what is really important about, you know, all of this of like, well, what can you do? How do you advocate? Number one is you have to get informed. But number two, and this is obviously where I'm going to say the skim comes in,

but number two, and I wouldn't have said this 10 years ago, but I will say this now, if you can just be informed, you're really lucky. Like if you get to just read something and be like, I feel really informed to talk about this topic, like you're at a point of privilege. If that is not something that you're getting informed about affecting your day to day. And so how do you then like turn that into action? And really like what the skim is about, you know, how we have evolved is like we are helping her navigate all of these kind of, you know, big, unsexy topics of her life, like personal finance, like talking about health and mental health, like talking about news and voter and civic engagement. And we need first and foremost to vote first and foremost, like, you know, we will never tell you

at the scheme who to vote for, but we will say you have a responsibility and a right and a duty to vote. And that doesn't just mean voting every four years. It means voting in local elections. I mean, look at the issues that we're talking about now as a country that have been so divisive. They come down to school board elections. They come down to the most local of local elections that many of us have taken for granted and honestly didn't pay attention to for a lot of our lives. And the first step is to get informed. The second step is to take action. And I think that is where, you know, we come in. I think the other part is the government and many levels and on both sides of political spectrums have failed women specifically when it comes to paid family leave. They have not supported women in the workforce. debate, well, what's the best way to get a bill passed and all of that. But to be honest, I don't know. And I think the other thing that we have seen overwhelmingly from our audience in previous studies we've done is 80% of her don't have faith that the government will solve

things for her, don't have faith that the government is going to solve paid family leave. And so that's when I say, then let's create the change ourselves. Go to your companies, go to your bosses, Go to your employers. Because we will change this one company at a time. It's really interesting to hear. My politics are very clear in my work and what we do. It's really interesting to hear that people who might identify as conservative. Again, it's probably not shocking, but I don't know why it's shocking to me, also feel all of

these issues as intimately as I might as a self-defined liberal person. So it's really interesting. And I really value that you were intentional about getting data from everybody, not just coasts, not just blue states. So yeah, it's really interesting to hear that every single woman seems to be struggling with this regardless. Yeah. I think that there are a lot of ideas, as there should be, about how do you fix the problem. And I think that that is a different issue than understanding that the problem exists. And I think that State of Women Report highlights the problems that exist. I think also, you know, and I hate that I'm saying this,

but I do think it's true. If you're looking at it, a Republican hasn't fixed this, a Democrat hasn't fixed this. There has not been significant change. So why do we spend our time arguing about that when instead it's like, okay, well, what are other things we can do to fix it? Because even if you think that it's because the Democrats are wrong or the Republicans are wrong, that change is not coming anytime soon. It's either an election away or a totally different control like system away. So it is just I feel like that's where we have seen a huge shift, I think, in our own thinking and why also we feel so passionate about what we view our our role at the company as being is informing people of the issues and thinking about different things to consider in terms of how we fix these problems. I think sometimes it's almost too simple if you're saying, you know, it's a political issue and so I'm going to vote this way. Like,

if that was the case, then we'd be completely like fixed every four years and then broken the four before. But that's really not what we're seeing with these issues that we're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. And it's this level of like, we want to see, you know, policy change because of course that's how stuff gets done. But even, you know, some of the policy change or the, you know, the legislators that you support, they have to go through different channels to get things passed, right? I think about student loan forgiveness as a financial educator. There are plenty of people who believe in student loan forgiveness, but there are plenty

of people who are not interested in having that pass or happen. So to your point again, it's not that we don't vote. It's not that we don't advocate for that. It's also what can we do at an individual level? What can we do in our businesses to start changing things? Yeah, exactly. So my last question for you, if I'm a listener and again, probably a woman, probably someone who cares about a woman thinking, okay, this is a lot. This is exactly how I'm feeling. What is one thing that they can do today to feel a little bit better about the state of women in the state of the world? can do today to feel a little bit better about the state of women in the state of the world? I've got two things. I think, you know, there's been a ton of ads around Mother's Day right now. And I think that the biggest gift is like, don't reward the women in your life for how much they do. Nothing frustrates me more than that. If you want to honor the women in your life, take something

meaningful away from them. Give them more sleep. That is the biggest thing. It's not like, how do you do it? I'm so in awe of you, but do less. That should be the gift for any moment in the year for the women in your life. And I think the biggest way to do that is instead of... It's great if you take this and you hear this podcast and you talk about it with your friends. Talk about it with guys. Talk about it with people that don't see this issue, that disagree with you. Those are the people I want you to share it with.

I want you to put it in front of people who don't think this is an issue. Like get into those awkward social media fights about like, we can disagree on how to solve it, but like you actually see that it's an issue. To me, that is a win. Amazing. Carly, anything to add? Oh, I was going to just say that one actually, which I think is, you know, I would go to the skim.com slash state of women. I would download that report and send it to the men in your life. Yeah. And I think it's just, there's plenty of men that I love who are,

you know, progressive and who are, you know, supporting of women in their life, but just like anything, sometimes you don't know what you don't know. Right. And you know,

your own experience. And there are plenty of times, you know, my, my friends of color will come to me and be like, Hey, this is what's going on in my brain. And I've never had that experience. And so the empathetic version is like, Oh, shit,

I've never thought of it that way. Thank you for thank you for telling me what's move forward. And I think that's a great point. And I think, you know, when we say forward it to the men in your life, we're not like yelling at them. We're saying, we're saying we need your help. And like, if there's like literally one one thing that a male counterpart or colleague could do for you it is arguing for pay transparency in your office there's not one thing asking for parent extended parental family leave benefits so it's not just maternal leave but it is family leave if they are they have direct reports making sure that they are advocating for pay transparency making sure that they are advocating for pay transparency, making sure that

they're not cutting off the women, especially the women of color who work for them in meetings. These are small things that add up, that add up eventually to the stats that we started this conversation with, which is 83% of her are like, I'm so sick of this shit. We will drop the report in the show notes. Where else can people find out about The Skimm? TheSkimm.com. Two M's. Amazing. Thank you for being here. You can also follow us on Instagram. At The Skimm. Perfect. Yeah. We've been following you for years. Thank you for your work. And

both as individuals and founders, such an incredible movement that you've built. So admire you both very deeply. So thank you for being here. Thank you. Well, likewise, you're amazing. So thank you for having us. Thank you very much for having us. We really appreciate it. Thank you again to Carly and Danielle for joining us for this episode. We're going to link the full report in our show notes. It really is fascinating. Make sure to check out the skim across their various platforms. They have a fantastic mailing list. Their brand is incredible. And it was so great to connect with Carly and Danielle. They're doing really incredible things. Thank you again for being here, Financial Feminists. If this episode connected with you, please feel free to share it. I know for me, in reading the report

and talking to them both, I felt very seen and heard and also angry. And if we turn that anger into action, we are fucking unstoppable. So feel free to share this episode with another woman in your life, as well as we talk in the episode about sharing this with the men in your life. A lot of men need to know all of the things we're dealing with as women. So if you are a man listening, we appreciate it. If you have a man in your life who you know would benefit from this information, feel free to send it to them. Thank you for being here as always. Thank you for supporting the show, Financial Feminists, and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap,

produced by Kristen Fields, marketing and administration by Kareena Patel, Sharice Wade, Alina Helzer, Paulina Isaac, Sophia Cohen, Khalil Demaz, Elizabeth McCumber, A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com or follow us on Instagram at financialfeministpodcast.