Financial Feminist - How to Ditch (or Limit) Alcohol in 2024 with Kelsey Moreira

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

CW: This episode discusses sexual abuse. The sober-curious movement has grown substantially in recent years as women especially begin to re-evaluate their relationship with alcohol. During the pandemic, levels of drinking skyrocketed, which has a direct impact on our mental and physical health, and of course, our wallets. In this re-release from July 2023, we’re joined by Kelsey Moreira, founder of Doughp, the cookie dough company with a mission to help women in recovery, to talk about her journey as a sober business owner. We also dive into her time on Shark Tank, including the hypocritical reason her company was passed up for funding and ultimately how she overcame the setback to build a business she loves. Read transcripts, learn more about our guests and sponsors, and get more resources at  https://herfirst100k.com/podcast Not sure where to start on your financial journey? Take our FREE money personality quiz! https://herfirst100k.com/quiz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A content warning off the top. This episode discusses sexual assault. I'd really lost myself. Like when I got sober, it was literally a question of like, who is Kelsey? And like, what does she like to do? What are my hobbies?

Literally, if people came to visit, it was like, we're going on a brewery tour. And like, we would just drink the whole weekend with like any friends came to town. So it was so interesting to be faced with that and go like, who do I even want to be? And yeah, this like annoyed stubbornness is really what's kept me sober for eight years. Just being like, hell no,

I'm not letting this stupid thing, which is so unimportant. Not only is alcohol like a horrible toxin for your body and I operate at a way more efficient, better level without it, but I get to choose who I want to be and how I want to show up every single day. And that is a huge blessing that I'll call from you. Hi, Financial Feminists. Welcome to the show. I'm so excited to see you. If you are watching this on YouTube, spoiler, we have a YouTube now. We are releasing full versions, full video versions of every episode of this show now.

So you can go to Financial Feminist Podcast. You can search it on YouTube. You can find them. But if you're watching on YouTube, you can tell that I'm recording this. Well, it's almost 9 p.m. We just got back from the executive retreat and I had to hop in here really quick before my day off tomorrow and record this really fast. So it's not the best lighting you've ever seen, but you know what? We're going to go with it. It's fine. One of the most popular episode of our show in 2023 was my friend Kelsey, who is an entrepreneur, an incredible entrepreneur who's been on Shark Tank. I've actually angel invested in her business dope, which makes incredible cookie dough. She came on the show to talk about her journey as an entrepreneur, but also

her journey to sobriety. It was the most popular episode of last year talking about sober curiosity, talking about our relationship with alcohol and other substances. And even if you wouldn't consider yourself to have a problem with alcohol, discussing how there's so much integration of alcohol into our lives and just analyzing if that's something we want to continue or something we maybe want to change. And in the new year, there's a lot of conversations about dry January, about drinking less. And I think especially this year, I'm seeing more conversation than ever about people being sober curious or actually people quitting alcohol completely. I've had multiple friends who have just stopped drinking

alcohol in the past year or so. And some of them, it was a more intentional choice. Some of them, it was just, oh, I'm going to try this and see how I feel. And then they just decided, you know, I don't need this. For me, and I believe I mentioned this in the episode, like I am being a lot more critical about when and how I drink. I've drank a lot less in the past six months than I think I have in a long time. And again, not because I have a problem with alcohol, but more I can feel when I don't sleep as well. I can feel, you know, when I've been drinking that I, you know, am not the most energized version of myself. I remember, and I believe I tell this story. I was at an event last year in New York. I was at this dinner for women entrepreneurs and they were serving alcohol and normally like, cool, free, free open bar. And I just, it was this moment where I was like,

I just got off a six hour flight. I don't want to drink. I don't need a drink. I'm just going to drink some ginger beer, which is my go-to alcohol-free alternative, by the way. And I just felt so much better for that choice. Now I had a glass of wine today. It's okay.

It fluctuates. So I think this episode is such a good conversation starter for yourself and maybe for others in your life about your relationship with alcohol. And Kelsey does such a great job breaking it down and also so vulnerably sharing her experience. So we wanted to re-release this one for you because y'all loved it last year. If you are new to the show, we'd love you to take a listen. And if you have maybe been here a while and you've already listened to this episode, it might be worth listening to again because you're in a different headspace than you were six, nine months

ago. I wanted to give you a couple facts about alcohol, about addiction, and just a lot of contextualization about all of this. The top 10% of American drinkers consume on average 74 alcoholic drinks per week or 18 bottles of wine. Crazy. In addition, the total revenue from alcoholic drinks is over $200 billion. So you can imagine, and again, we're not shaming you for drinking. If you want to drink and you feel like you can do so responsibly, great, I do that. But you can imagine the cost financially, globally and economically, but specifically for your budget and for your credit card and your wallet that the consumption of alcohol has, right? I also saw in the New York Times recently, they did this great article about the impact of dry January. And one of the things that they cited was that people who engage in dry January, on average, drink less throughout the entire rest of the year, even if they don't stick to a completely alcohol-free lifestyle.

And you can see pretty substantial benefits almost immediately. Now, if you are a heavier drinker, it's actually going to be more painful for a period of time, right? But you can see, again, better sleep, you're more active, your mood isn't as crazy. And so, yeah, I'm just, I love this episode. Want to give it to you again. Thanks for being here, Financial Feminists. Would love to hear your thoughts. Have a good day. But first, a word from our sponsors. You know who I learned this from is Sarah Blakely, Spanx. Queen. She was once quoted talking about this, saying that in the early days of Spanx, you would just literally not see her anywhere without her Spanx shirt.

That's really smart. She was like, if she's doing anything, if she was asked to speak anywhere, it was like, I'm always going to have the shirt and the logo. So yeah, I stuck with it. Dope all day. I need to wear mine more often. My shameless plug is just putting my book in three spots. I love it. Look what I'm reading. It's so many books. How'd you get so many books? It's almost like I wrote them. It's crazy. Where are you located these days? I'm trying to remember where you're at. Yeah, we live in East Texas now, a tiny town. It's literally got 3000 people in it. It's a little bitty town where my 93 year old grandpa lives for my whole life. But my Nana passed away about six years ago. And I wanted to be close to him. So once is and I were running the

company remotely, like we'd close the storefronts down. I was like, we could be anywhere. What are we doing in Vegas? Like, I don't drink we could be anywhere. What are we doing in Vegas? Like, I don't drink. You barely drink. What are you doing living here? And like, we don't have this store. So let's go ahead. And we moved in late 21 out here

and it's just been the best. I was going to ask you, is that a weird transition going from like splashy big city living to middle of nowhere? Totally. We were like San Francisco, Vegas, and then made it out. So we're just migrating. And for my husband, who's from Brazil, he went from 20 million people where

he grew up in Sao Paulo to 3,000 now. But yeah, I just love it. It's such a nice feeling. Know your neighbors, really safe. And I don't know if you know this, but Iz and I are expecting our first child. I'm pregnant. Yay! Congratulations. So excited. Wow. Yeah. Thank you. So we're like in the perfect spot for that.

It just feels like it's a little bit of an older community. I mean, hence my grandpa living here, right? It kind of was a getaway for people that used to work in Dallas. Like wanting a retirement community is kind of how it got started. But with remote work, some younger families are coming in. We'll be the first family born on this street in like 35 years or something. Isn't that crazy? First new baby born on the street. We got some old neighbors that told us that they're like, we're going to throw a party for the street because it's the first time a baby's been born here. It's so cute. Yeah. So we love it. We're

happy. That's so amazing. Congratulations to you and Iz. I have known you, oh gosh, for a couple of years now. Yeah. And I think you and I got connected. I'm trying to remember if I cold pitched you. I'm trying to remember how it happened. No, I think it was Davidson Dixon. Was it? Which has since been acquired. But yeah, I think Mackenzie and Kelsey, they hooked us up for like an influencer, like, hey, send some product. And then we were like, hey, you're also really awesome. We should just be friends. Yeah. They're good friends of mine who are Seattle entrepreneurs. And yeah, they have a marketing agency that got acquired. And so, yeah, that sounds about right. Sounds right. The crazy thing is, of course, I have to ask you about Shark Tank because that's

how I discovered you originally. I think all of us who just are like viewers of the show are so curious about like what happens behind the scenes and i know you've told this a million times but any like nuggets of shark tank like i think once you told me that you when you walk out you have to stand there for a couple minutes totally like silent to get like all the shots but like tell me all the dirty details that somebody watching shark tank would have no idea sure and i love it too. I was the same way. I mean, I watched this forever since season one and always was like,

what would this be like to go on and what's it actually like? And basically it was nothing like what I thought. I had no idea it was going to be so real and so not scripted. Like they really are the real deal. One of the things is

that's really interesting is like when you go in, when you get to start, there's no cuts or breaks or like I need to go to the bathroom or could I look that up really quick? It's nonstop you standing there and answering the drilling questions until you make a deal or all the sharks are out. And so I think the longest record is like three hours, which is crazy. Which when you're a viewer, it's 15 minutes. Right. Even less. It's crazy. Which when you're a viewer, it's 15 minutes. Yeah. Right.

Even less. It's crazy. It's like I was thinking as I was watching it for the first time when it aired, I'm like thinking it's going to be like a 10, 15 minute segment, you know, but it's literally like seven minutes, I think, for that first, you know, airing we were on in 2018. Yeah. Filmed it in late 2018, aired in 2019. But yeah, the thing about waiting to have

them get all the shots. So you're standing behind the doors to wait and open up and let you walk down the hallway for the first time. And I'm a solo founder. So I was standing there by myself, literally more nervous than I've ever been in my entire life because they count down from like 100 to start because there's so many people. Is this the Hunger Games? Am I going to die? So I've never been more certain that I was going to pee my pants. That literally is the Hunger Games. Have you seen that movie where it's like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. They count down. It's exactly like that. And then it's like the Hunger Games because the sharks are going to eat. Yeah, totally. Yes. So it's soothing. But that was like, I've honestly, I spoke at a keynote once in front of like 4,000 people live. This was way scarier. I was so, so, so intimidated before the doors opened. And then for some reason, as soon as they opened, I just had this calm come over me that was like, I've prepared for this my whole life. Let's freaking crush it. And I just walked down, hit my mark, awkwardly waited for the 30 seconds until they say, begin, as you mentioned, they want to get all your shots, like looking

serious and staring at each other. And I'm like so bubbly. So of course I was like really finding myself to not be like, hi, hey, hey, it's so cool to meet you. Like good to see you. I had to just look like stern Kelsey, which doesn't ever exist. It was unique. One of the things that you and I talked about that I would love to spend a little bit of time discussing today is you did not get a deal in the tank, right? And Mark Cuban, the reason he cited for not giving you a deal was, hey, this cookie dough company sounds great and it tastes good, but like it's not healthy and I'm thinking about the health impact. And then, and you can give me the timeline, was it six months later, a year later, he invests in a company called Fat Shack run by a male entrepreneur. Which literally that whole

thing was not just like, this is a product that might not be the healthiest. It was literally like the thing of this product was like, you come to gorge yourself on like burgers and fries. So talk to me about that double standard. Literally 2,000 calorie sandwiches is what they sell. That's like their marketing thing. Right. 2,000 calorie sandwiches. So super crazy.

When you look at a product like Dope, we're like, hey, life's about balance. Have a little treat. It does have butter and sugar, but it's literally made like you'd make in your kitchen. It's cookie dough. And we're not ashamed of that. So to have that be where the conversation went on Shark Tank was for one, so jarring. I was not expecting it to be like, hey, with the health, obesity epidemic and all this. And yet Cuban saying everything about this says it's an amazing investment. I just can't get behind products that say let's eat more. And then it was not six months. It was not a year. It was actually about an hour later that he filmed the fat shack. It airs the following

week after my episode, which is why I kind of got a little bit of buzz. Inc. Magazine wrote an article about it and Cuban and the fat shack both declined to comment. But a couple of years later, I believe this was actually last year, I got to meet the Fat Shack founders. And they were like, Kelsey, we have to tell you, we have such survivor's guilt. We felt so bad watching what they had said to you. And then that we got the deal. When were you filmed? And we go back into our photos and pull up the of like what time my slot was when I walked in. Because I took a picture like before I went in the doors and they had done something similar. And we're literally like an hour apart in filming. They were like right after me.

Oh, yeah. Isn't that crazy? Oh, it hurt. It hurt so bad. But you kind of just got to go like, was this for TV? You know, because after the episode, everyone was like, man, like she crushed it. Like, you know, I had been flashcarding every business that you could imagine for the company. Like, I knew my business front to back. I knew we were going like all the

passions there, the products there, the sales are there. We were profitable. Like everything was so shining to say, yes, like, let's do this. This is going to be amazing. So for it to be like, oh, you know, Robert Hrchovec said, how many people would you say like cookie dough? Anybody who's ever eaten anything? I was like, I would say a significant amount. It just felt a little like, were they telling them to like find ways to kind of dog on cookie dough or that we're not sure about the health crisis and stuff? It was so weird. Yeah. It feels like virtue signaling mixed with as someone who has watched

every season of the show. Sometimes I think they just like, I don't want to do this deal, which is 100% in their right, but they have to find the reason for TV in order to like, because people don't understand. I think, right.

The average person doesn't understand. Venture capitalists are sometimes just like, no, this is like, I just, i don't want to do this deal and so maybe that is mark cuban being like virtue signal plus like for whatever reason like this just isn't for me and then i have to come up with a reason for it like inhaled the whole plate of samples he was like the most down on the samples i remember being like so fucking ridiculous like cleared the plate like he's totally gonna be in and then it was no just dropped off a cliff which and i will say it is truly the best cookie dough thank you like i love it and it is i don't mean to like make this like an ad for don't like truly you can you can

bake it or you can eat it raw and that was always my thing was like my mom would make cookies and i would be in there eating raw cookie dough she's like you're gonna get sick and I'm like I don't fucking care yep you can eat it raw or baked and so fuck you Mark Cuban it's so funny yeah it took a lot you know like you build up for that moment and you're thinking like this is totally it like how incredible that I'm even here to be filmed you know 40,000 people try out and about 140 are filmed for a season so the odds of just being there were crazy. And when it didn't happen, I mean, I was crushed. They kindly cut away from it. But as I'm walking out, I lean back and wave, clicked my heels. And I think I said, have a dope day, our sign off from dope. And as soon as I turned my back to them, I mean, the waterworks, I was full on hyperventilating

as soon as I turned the corner. And the camera was like three inches from my face. You know, when you're walking out, the camera's just right there. And I totally was like, wow, the world, like America's going to see me have this like meltdown. And I was, I was ready for it, you know, with mental health being such a big stance for dope and something we talk about so deeply, I was like totally preparing a response of like, yeah, when you put your heart and soul into something like that was feeling the raw feels and like people were going to see it, but they ended up cutting through it. Like you kind of see, I'm looking a little teary eyed. They gave me about 30 minutes to like get myself together before I did those closing comments afterwards about like, they'll see me again, you know, and all that, which was really kind. But yeah, when I was like,

I collapsed like on the ground crying and they were still filming me. So it was really cool that they just chose to say, you know, let's let this moment be just hers and not need to like exploit it, you know? But yeah, I took a mental health day the next day and then picked myself up, found another investor to get the capital for that Vegas store, which is what I was raising for at the time and opened up the store like four months later. So a couple months before the episode actually aired, which was incredible timing. So just a testament to like, doesn't matter how many no's you get. You just keep going and find somebody who's who does believe and who's willing to say yes. Well, my last question about the Shark Tank experience for you, like, you don't get a deal, but you're still get this platform. And they had you come on as well to do like one

of the updates, which my mom jokes, I used to watch the show with my parents and every time an update would come on, she'd be like, update, I'm so excited. And so she was always really excited to see like what people were up to. Literally, she was just so excited. And so like one of the things that I loved is they had you back and they sometimes do this where it's like, hi, I'm thriving. I'm doing great. I didn't get a deal, but I'm doing great. So like, what happens if you don't get a deal? Are you still seeing the boost in sales? Are you like, I've seen people be able to use, you know, appeared on Shark Tank and their marketing. Like what happens even if you don't get a deal from Mark Cuban or Kevin O'Leary?

In the end, it's like the best thing that could have happened because in so many cases, you do get a deal on TV and then it falls out in diligence. I'm hearing crazy numbers like 60, 70% or more. Right. That's the thing. Tell me about that. Because people think, oh, anybody who's getting a deal has got a deal. But again, I'm... Like, oh, they're done. Oh, they've got Cuban on their cap table. They'll never need money again. And investors are probably looking like, oh, they're probably handled. And it just turns you into like, you have a shark on your table. But there's so much that happens afterwards. And yeah, I've heard it can be a nightmare, not only in that many fallout,

but just the time you end up committing to diligence, some like a year process. I've heard for a few teams that took a year in diligence. And I'm sorry, but the capital I was raising, as I shared, I ended up opening that store. I filmed in September. I opened the store in March. I wasn't ready to wait a year to go through something like that anyway. So to have all those energy and resources into diligence and have it fall out would have been traumatic. So going without a deal, when it aired, we had... I think the number is something like 143 people reach out wanting to franchise the brand. Like loving the concept and just business opportunities, wanting to sell the product, like loving the concept and just like business opportunities,

wanting to sell the product in their stores, that kind of thing. So that was amazing. And lots of franchising because again, we had the storefront concept back then versus being e-commerce and retail now. And then we had something like 50 investors reach out wanting to invest in the company. So yeah, I think it was just such a great platform to go out. It was the first time on a national stage to share my sobriety journey. And the messages we got from just an individual basis were so incredible. People feeling seen

and heard and their story being able to make it on a big stage. This one always stuck with me. Someone had... Mother had lost her son to the disease of addiction a few months prior. I believe she said in February and this had aired in May. She said, for some reason, the only show I can bear to watch is Shark Tank. And seeing you last night felt like a message from my Ryan. And I just want to thank you for sharing your story. Got me. Crying. Yeah, it got me good. Yeah. All those things just make it like totally worthwhile. And then it continues to re-air as the years go on, you know, so it's just, it just... It's a CNBC syndication. Yeah. I love this clip. Barbara Corcoran had said,

what do you see for your business in the future? And I was like, world cookie dough domination, with my arms all thrown out. And they put in all these clips teasing Shark Tank episodes. So it's really fun. My husband's Brazilian and his friends back in Brazil have seen it. I think a friend saw it in Portugal too. And I'm speaking Portuguese because they have it dubbed over in Portuguese, which is so funny to see. I'm pitching my company in another language. Pretty cool.

So just the whole reach has been nice. I've heard things are hit or miss on how much it drives for sales versus the old days. When you used to watch it with your parents, when you're at home, same thing for me. It was primetime. It was like Shark Tank tank is on we're all sitting down we're all watching it that has a hugely different impact and that's why the super bowl is still the super bowl because like everybody's sitting down and watching it and all those ads are like hitting at the same time now with shark tank it's kind of like you know who's gonna watch the reruns when maybe they watch it on hulu like so it's sort of this trick that's what i do is i watch it six weeks later yeah still yeah so it's kind of this like rolling um thunder for me but

i think all those outside benefits of like being able to say you're a shark tank company like that was a cherry on top i think they they're so it's so far down the road now they've had so many entrepreneurs that it's not as big of a weight as it used to be but being paired together with like hey we also have a freaking kick-ass product and this mission is amazing and there's not it's not as big of a weight as it used to be, but being paired together with like, hey, we also have a freaking kick-ass product and this mission is amazing. And there's not... It's like, that's the story I've been bringing to retailers. And the Shark Tank thing is just one extra.

Some people will recognize this more than another brand because we have had this recognition from Shark Tank. Now, twice, luckily. luckily. I know this about you and your brand and you're talking about the mission and the values and you've sprinkled it a little bit, but for those who are unfamiliar with dope, it's cookie dough, great cookie dough. But in addition, you have this really important element of focusing on women's recovery and addiction. And can you talk a little bit about why that cause is so close and important to you? Yeah, for sure. Sometimes I joke and I say like, we're a company built to break the stigma on mental health and addiction

recovery, and we just happen to sell cookie dough to do it. So that's a nice like reframing for just how serious it is for us. It's not like a side, oh, we have some philanthropy, we kind of do. It's like, no, this really is at the forefront of what we're doing. And the cookie dough is just sort of a means to the end, a delicious means to the end, no less. But for me, my journey to starting Dope is what led us to have this be our mission. I myself will celebrate eight years sober this September, which is amazing and hard to believe. Congratulations. I remember when eight weeks was sick and I was like, cool, eight months.

And it's really crazy to think it's going to be eight years. But yeah, as a child, like I'd really struggled with my anxiety and issues of perfectionism, like so many of us, just like my achievements were my worth. And that added a lot of like mental strain and stress on just a kid at the time. And then when I was 16,

got this opportunity to go work at Intel. And that was a big jump from being a kid to being an adult. And all that added pressure and stress of me wanting to get those achievements and be the best I could be just went full force in corporate America. So I didn't have the best coping mechanisms for my mental health. And I drank for the first time when I was 14 and had snuck out, lied to my parents about where I was going, went to this party. And I drank till I blacked out the first time I ever had alcohol. And I remember thinking how peaceful it felt that I could just

be like the rest of the kids. Everyone always seems so cool and relaxed and not worried. And that let me be like them for the night. It sort of felt like I could just let go of all my stress. So that really started what became a 10-year relationship with alcohol that got out of control a number of times. And through the years, always tried to find a way to keep alcohol in my life. As hard as something would get, as bad as the outcomes would get, as hard and horrible as I'd hurt people close to me, it was like, well, okay, I'm only going to have tequila or I'll only have wine. Or maybe I just do... I'll have a water after every drink and I'll only drink on Tuesday nights or something, whatever. I always had these different things I would try.

Yeah, we call that bargaining. Totally. Totally. Bargaining. And it's just a facade. It's just, it was really this desperate attempt to not want to be different. I really felt like, especially at those ages, I was 24 when I got sober. I just felt like I didn't want to be different. Why couldn't I just figure this out? Little voices in my head saying like, hey, this kind of runs in your family. My mom was an alcoholic, got sober about a year after I did. My Nana, who I mentioned earlier, she passed away at 21 years sober. So I had a lot of this in my life and a real great voice from my Nana who was encouraging me along the way to get sober. I would promptly tuck all of those letters in the drawer because I didn't want to

face it. It was really hard at the time to realize you have a problem. But I had the one last hurrah. It was September of 2015. And I was on a business trip for Intel in Spain. And to give you a little bit of history on Spain, I'm happy opening up and sharing about this. I had been to Spain four years prior to this date when I finally got sober. And it was a study abroad trip, very beginning of a study abroad trip. And also, oddly, in Barcelona. And it was four years to the date in the past. So going to the study abroad trip, I was 18 at the time, 18 turning 19. And so I was going to be able to drink. And for the first time, go to bars and go to clubs and all this. And one thing led to another. We're after a little bit of pre-gaming out at a club and a group of guys walked up with some glasses of champagne, they were one short for

the group. And so I said, oh, sorry, I didn't get one. And one guy left, got a glass, brought it back to me. And I have nothing but splotches until coming to totally naked under a park bench in Barcelona with none of my belongings. And I had been raped, had to go do a rape kit with people speaking Catalan. I had studied Spanish and I had no idea how confusing hearing Catalan would be in Spain. And I was flown home the next day by very worried parents and a boyfriend at the time who I had just started dating about six months before that. So you fast forward now, four years later, and I'm going back to Spain and I'm just convinced that it's going to be different. In this in-between time when I was 21,

I hit an ultimatum with that boyfriend who said, you need to get sober. And I had gone six months and was like, okay, this is good. A reset. We just decided I just needed to reset. And so six months without alcohol, as soon as I started drinking again, I was blacking out within three weeks and the events continued. But things had spread out enough that I just really thought, it's going to be different this time. I'm going to go, I'll reclaim my experience in Spain. And with alcohol in my life, there was no reclaiming my experience.

So this business trip, I started drinking. Right when I got there, there was a welcome bottle of wine from the Marriott and popped that open at like 10.30 in the morning, went to meet some co-workers at the pool and on and on, you know how the story goes. Ended up coming to 3.30 in the morning in a stranger's apartment. I had cheated on my boyfriend, lost my belongings again, just all of the things that just did not represent who I knew I could be and the type of woman I wanted to be moving through the world. So after getting through a very groggy morning and picking up the pieces of what was happening, I called my Nana that morning from Barcelona and said,

enough's enough. I'm ready. I want to get sober. And she said, you better get your butt to an AA meeting. She's Scottish and had this sweet accent. I won't try and mimic it because I wouldn't do her justice. But she said I needed to get your butt to an AA meeting. She's Scottish and had this sweet accent. I won't try and mimic it because I wouldn't do her justice, but she said I needed to get my wee butt to a meeting. And I found an English-speaking AA meeting in Barcelona

and have not had a drink since. Thank you for your vulnerability. I'm so sorry that happened to you. One of the things you said that I literally wrote down because I wanted to come back to it, as you said, I wasn't the woman I knew I could be or wanted to be. What did it feel like?, I wasn't the woman I knew I could be or wanted to be. What did it feel like?

Like to know, okay, I have all of this potential, but this thing that feels now uncontrollable is barring me from the possibility of everything I could be. Honestly, I was so annoyed. I was so annoyed, so pissed off that like, why is this so hard? Like, look at all these other things I've achieved in this career I have and like, all these other

things that look so great. And I'd always excelled in school and everything was so good. But like, I wasn't able to really break through and find me and like, let myself shine through. It was like, coasting through life. Like I was kind was just with the motion on of, this is just what I'm going to do. And I really lost myself. When I got sober, it was literally a question of, who is Kelsey? What does she like to do? What are my hobbies? Literally, if people came to visit, it was like, we're going on a brewery tour. And we would just drink the whole weekend if any friends came to town. So it was so interesting to be faced with that and go like, who do I even want to be? And yeah, this annoyed stubbornness is really what's kept me sober for eight years. Just being like, hell no, I'm not letting this stupid thing, which is so unimportant.

Not only is alcohol a horrible toxin for your body, and I operate at a way more efficient, better level without it, but I get to choose who I want to be and how I want to show up every single day. And that is a huge blessing that I'll call out for all just from you. We're starting to have, I think, a conversation more in society. And we actually have a member of our team who is like her side business

is in talking about sobriety, coaching about sobriety. I think there's this feeling of like, unless you have a problem, and I'm putting like problem in quotes, like, oh, I don't need to get sober. But I even know, like I have started, especially Beth, who's the member of our team, like I have another friend who's also one of our collaborators, Mallory, who hasn't had a drink in I think almost a year. And I'm starting to even evaluate my own relationship with alcohol because I truly,

I don't have an issue with that. But at the same time, there's some times where, yeah, I drink too much or I don't like the way I feel, but the situation was like, okay, well, everybody's going for drinks. You're not going to have a drink or like, okay, you're at a wedding. Like there's alcohol served. And for me, especially as like a frugal person, I'm like, if the alcohol's free, I'm going to have it. But I'm having like this reevaluation of like, okay, when do I want to drink and I want to be more intentional about it? So if somebody's listening and they're doing the like, well, I don't need to get sober because I don't have a problem. One, what would you say to them in terms of like potentially reevaluating that relationship? And two,

is that sometimes what people say when they actually do have a problem and they're just in denial? Yeah. Sometimes there's a common saying that if you're asking the question, there might be a problem. Sure. If you're being drawn to question it, there might be a problem. But I agree. There's such a change in society with just how we're viewing this decision to get sober. And it doesn't have to mean... I guess the greatest thing is you don't have to get to the movie stereotypical rock bottom. And this is how I felt. I didn't need to wait until I had three kids in my car and I was getting a DUI. I didn't need to wait until I lost my job because I showed up drunk one day. I was able to say, this is enough. The horrible things I'm doing when I am drinking, let's just stop it. And you get to decide when your own rock bottom is. And it doesn't have to

be what people assume or think of as a problem. It can just be your own version of it. And the even lighter layers of this of just a world looking for more connection and realness and authenticity and finding other ways to socialize like the mocktail movement. I mean, there's plenty of ways to go out with your friends for drinks and have a really cool drink that doesn't have alcohol in it. There's lots of decisions like that where people just want to not feel like shit the next day. And a lot who start out with like, well, let's just see how I feel. And then it's like, well, this is great. Like after a month or two months. And so here they are a few years down the road. No problem. They just don't drink. That's most of my friends who have gotten sober. Yeah. And you find it gets easier.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's the same thing with me. Yeah. Where I'm just, I, I, for many reasons, I don't think we'll completely stop drinking. Like I like, especially whiskey. Like I love the taste of that. Like that's something that like I'm going to Scotland this summer and it's like, okay, I'm going to a distillery in Scotland. That's going to be fun. Like, okay, when I turned 21 and I had some money and it was legal, it was like, oh, I get to order a cocktail. And it was kind of thrilling. And then that just became the default of just like, okay, I'm out. Like, I'm not just going to drink water. And now I'm asking myself, like, do I actually want the thing? And often I don't. It's just like... Or like flip a few pages back.

There's literally a sick mocktail menu at so many bars and restaurants now that look cool. I will order a ginger beer now most often versus like, yeah, it's like, okay, I don't want to just drink water, but I don't want to have alcohol. Yeah. And let me tell you too, bourbon was my favorite. That was my drink of choice towards the end. Spiritless, for anyone who is sober or looking to get sober, Spiritless makes an incredible na whiskey ritual has one as well. I found it's like It's good, but I I really enjoyed this spiritless one better I've literally been making like manhattans and old fashions and like they're so good

So spiritless is like for the win. They have a really great one They make a tequila too, but harder to harder to mimic tequila still these days, but the bourbon is like fucking crazy We'll be we'll throw a party or something, have neighbors over and people who do drink will say, can you make me one of those? That tastes amazing. So it's cool. What is the biggest myth about drinking or sobriety that you wish you could debunk? Oh, just that you can't have any fun. I mean, I still think that that one sticks that people who look at it and they're like, you got sober like ban. I mean, even like you said at a wedding, for example example that was literally one of the first

things i remember telling my mom like how will i get married i literally said that how will i get married like in tears hysterics that like i've ruined my life like and now i have to be sober and like this is gonna be so hard and how will i get married i'm not gonna be able to champagne toast like that literally crossed my mind and there's a thousand things I could rattle off that are perfectly fine to go in a champagne flute and toast with. And I am happily married and had my... I think I had kombucha or something champagne glass to toast with. So yeah, it's just like there's a whole world out there. You really get blinders on and this autopilot when alcohol is a part of your life. And then when it's not, you get more creative on interesting things to do or other ways to enjoy time. And my relationships with all my friends got deeper and more interesting because

we actually talk about real stuff. It's not just like drunken nights where you're bonding, but really, you just have a bunch of drinking buddies. It's a more fulfilled existence for all I'm concerned about. Yeah. One of the things, and I think we'll also talk about this on another episode, that is just so seeped into our culture is, in addition to the social element, there's this feeling of, I have to drink in order to get ahead in my career. And if either people listening are going to immediately connect with that, or they're going to be like, that's not true for me. And

if that's not true for you, bless you. Great. But like my first corporate job, they had speakeasies in every office. And I was told by one of the VPs that if I wanted to get ahead, I was going to have to drink. The biggest HR violation, like terrible. But I was 22 and I was told like, if you want a future here, this is the culture. And I think whether it's a networking event, whether it's after like work happy hour, they would throw ragers at the office for like, and, and, you know, open bar in the actual office building. Can we just talk about that? Because I feel like that's, that's so seeped into like, literally not just like I'm going out with friends, but like in order to seem accessible or to seem like I'm one of, you know,

the people in the company culture. Yeah. For one, if anyone out there is, you know, has struggled with alcohol or is sober and is in a situation like that, let's find you another job. There's so many opportunities out there for you to be at a company that is not just totally twisted and wrapped around those things. 100%. I think things have changed a lot in the last few years. There's like a... I think a relatively infamous one about Dropbox. Their all their all hands meeting was like Whiskey Wednesdays or something like that. And it was like unlimited spirit. So to be a part of the biggest, most important meeting of the week or month,

however often they were holding those, like it was all around, let's all have whiskey. And can you imagine if you were like literally in your first couple weeks of sobriety having to go to that? I mean, just really tough. So I think they've since changed this. And there's been a really big movement around it. Dope is a recovery-friendly workplace. It's a designation that they have now in like 27 states, which is amazing. And for us, I mean, we're a remote team now. So it's a little bit different. But there are tons of companies who do have real impact with trying to bring this consciousness to the management layers that are

inside of a company to know that one in 12 Americans are in active recovery. And I'm sorry, but there's survey bias. So you know that's even higher because there's some people who just because of the anonymity and the shame around it, who wouldn't even self-report that they are. So I'm sure the numbers are higher. I spoke to a founder probably a year ago now, who's got about 100 employees. And he said, yeah, it's really cool what you guys are doing for addiction recovery with the workplace stuff you're working on. We don't have anybody in recovery in our company. I really had to hold myself back from laughing because I'm thinking there absolutely is. Absolutely. Not only is there people in recovery in your company

but there's people who have a loved one who like just went into recovery or you know it's it just touches almost every single one of us it's a couple degrees of separation well and because of the shame and the stigma like are they coming to the CEO of this company being like hi I have a drinking problem probably not absolutely And not even that like, would this person say, oh, you suck because you have a drinking problem, you need to leave. But it's like the ignorance

of just not thinking about how could I help bring these conversations to light inside of our company? Like, how can I help foster an environment that vulnerability is okay? And like talking about the not so shiny parts of our life is okay. And you're not going to lose your job

if you reach out for help. And the recovery-friendly workplace is doing a great job trying to bring some of this training up and really show how you can create an environment that lets your employees bring their full selves to work across mental health, addiction recovery, and suicide prevention as well. I can't emphasize enough how important this is for employers. You're often the last place someone is showing up when they're really in a dark place, when they're really struggling. Work may be the

last place they're going. So it's this responsibility I think all employers should feel to try to be there for the humans that are supporting your business. Because we're all humans at the end of the day. We can't just be robots and put the home stuff at home and put our little happy faces on when we come in the office and pretend like everything's fine. So yeah, more inclusive practices in the workplace around alcohol is really a timely conversation. Well, and the office might be actively contributing to your, you know, your need to drink or even if the alcohol is provided. And I also, at least for me, and I imagine statistics would back this up, it also felt like a gendered thing, right? It was like men in leadership, many of whom were either

alcoholics or like borderline alcoholics who were telling their 22-year-old female employee, like, you need to drink to get ahead. And that felt like the weirdest power dynamic that 100% has to be factored in with like the gender power of that. I mean, it's just an extra layer on it all, you know? Like the comments we put up with and all the little things like from an older generation and talking down to you.

If you need to get up or in a founder position, for example, this happens with the investor landscape. Like, you know, what do we like put up with hearing and letting them say to us or feeling pressured in one way or another? And certainly, your example of a 22-year-old new in a job, feeling vulnerable and she needs to do what it takes to fit in and get ahead. And yeah, it can lead to unfortunate situations that I wish we all didn't have to put up with, you know? Yeah. If we aren't someone who's going through recovery, but maybe if we know someone in recovery,

whether that's family or friends, it's really hard to know how to best show up for them and be supportive, but also set boundaries and not enable them to keep drinking or to keep using. What advice do you have for family and friends of women who are either experiencing active addiction or are in recovery? Yeah, it's so hard for the loved ones outside, the normies, as we call it. If you don't struggle,

it can be so confusing how this is taking hold of this individual that you love. And you as the outsider can see this beautiful path for them and all their potential and everything that's possible and their addiction and active addiction will not end until they realize they need to. The person really has to come to that decision themselves for it to stick. Sometimes the forced intervention, like you've got to go to rehab and they make it happen. It often doesn't work in the end because that person didn't choose it. So it really is difficult.

I always say to anyone who's got a loved one that's struggling, for me, continuing to hear from my Nana, for example, the letters saying that she was worried about me and how much she loved me and that there was another path. Those were little

chips away. I look at myself like I was this big iceberg. And every little letter from her was a little chip away. And every morning I woke up apologizing for something I absolutely did not remember doing. Little chips away, just feeling this shame and annoyance. Again, this problem that's just... I wish it would just go away. But all the support and kind love I was getting from family members who were able to express like, I'm worried about you. I love you. I hope you can see a better path in the future. They all mattered and they all counted. Not one led me to get sober, but all of them together did make an impact. So if you have someone who's struggling, just continuing the drumbeat for as long as it's

healthy for you to let them know that you love them and you support them and you hope that they can get on a better path. Of course, there's cases where this can be damaging. And like you mentioned, enabling individuals to continue to use and if they're harming you or stealing from you or all the detriments that can come to you for remaining close, like being able to set your boundaries with love and let them know that you're putting these things in place because you love them and you need them to get help, but you're not going to be able to be a part of this anymore. That's the best advice I can give. And otherwise, just connecting with groups like Al-Anon and other resources that...

Tons of this online to be able to find communities you can connect with and find the support you need as an individual because like your healing matters too. It's painful to be the one on the other side as well. We'll link up in the show notes. I want to touch on it briefly. I think again, the cultural zeitgeist is changing, thank goodness. But you mentioned even at the top of this episode, you said a disease like called addiction. I think, again, part of the stigma is it's like, well, just stop drinking or just stop doing this. But at a certain point, it does become a disease like anything else where you are no longer in control of it. So can we talk briefly about that, about the kind of change in how we're viewing addiction? For sure. I mean, I think the way to

look at this is absolutely like a disease. If you had cancer, you know, like I think my dad said something like this, like if my daughter had cancer, I'm not going to be, you know, ashamed of her pushing her out, you know, and pushing her out the door, like we'd want to find her help. It's not an excuse. It's not an excuse to say like, my actions didn't matter and they didn't really hurt people because, oh, I just have this disease, but it is a disease and it really does need, you does need a full swath of support and decision-making to be able to change it and stop. And in some cases, medical intervention and rehabilitation are needed to get back on your feet and get out of it. So it's a big shift from just saying, toughen up, get over it. Why can't

you just figure it out? Why can't you just find the balance? But I and many others are testaments to if you have the disease of addiction, you cannot find a balance. The substance will always find you. You can't balance yourself out. One was too many and 10 drinks was never enough. So it was never going to work out for me in the long run. I think another thing that's helped to shed some light, there are some studies that have gone on around just the genetic passing of addiction. This is for real. If it's in your family, you've got a higher propensity for it. And once you recognize this about yourself, because being addicted to one thing, I have an addictive personality. So you have to watch yourself as you go through life. What else are you using to fill that space? Where are you deciding to put that energy that you've

now relieved from pouring into alcohol or whatever, insert substance here? What are you going to pour it into now? And for me, that was the company. Finding this awesome idea, I had to go build a business and let that be like my new addiction in a healthy way and just keep tabs on it that it's not taking over and that I'm still taking care of myself. And yeah, but it's like a, it's a recognition that this is something I'll always be like, I'll always be an addict, like always an addictive personality. And I just have to watch what's my new drug of choice, you know, and is it healthy and is it in line with the life I want to lead? Kristen, our podcast producer and I were talking before you jumped on

about the response that happens when you get offered a drink and you go, oh, no, thank you. And I'm thinking like, oh, are you pregnant? That's a lot of the conversation for women when they refuse alcohol. What are other things that you should never say to somebody when they refuse a drink or they just say, no, I'm okay. Or I would like something else. Like what are the things we should never say to somebody? I know. And I feel like for again, the normies it's, it's honestly, it's just out of not knowing that it like that something could be offensive, that you're genuinely shocked, like, wait, you're not going to drink. And for some, it's the case that they're a little upset because they wanted you to be drinking with them. A lot of people don't want to drink alone. And so it's like, are you going to be a buzzkill for the party or something if you're not drinking? So for the individual who's not drinking,

the best advice is try to always have yourself handled. When I'm going to a party, I always bring something really fun that I'm looking forward to drinking. A new cool NA beer. I mean, Corona has NA now. There's all sorts of stuff. It's amazing. I think Heineken's got an NA beer too. Guinness has a stout. So you've got all the choices in the world to plan in advance and bring something so you're not stuck at the party going, did you have anything other than the cocktail that everyone's having? Or do you have anything other than beer? And then they're like grabbing their kids. Also, if you're throwing a party, yeah, if you're throwing a party, like provide non-alcoholic options. Amen to that. Besides water. Totally. Like that's the mecca.

And then until we get there, handle yourself and make sure you come prepared. Yeah, sure. That's what we hope it gets to though is like, you know, at parties, functions, conferences, all of that being, again, more inclusive about options you're providing. So it's not like fun drinks and all these alcohol. Water is the NA choice. It's just such a... You know?

And then for anyone who asks, oh, did you want a drink? Or do you want to try a sip of mine? I get offered, you know, sips of drinks if someone's having something interesting. Yeah. When they say no, like, what if it could just be okay? say no, what if it could just be okay?

What if it could just be... Don't worry. Oh, all good. Cool. Or did you want something else? Is there something else I could get you? I just wish it wasn't even a question. It's slowly getting there. As I get older,

it really is way more there. I rarely get asked any questions about why I'm not drinking if I'm out somewhere. Of course, most people asked any questions about why I'm not drinking if I'm out somewhere. Of course, most people now that know me know I'm sober. But even when I meet new people, I don't really even get a question around it as much now. So I'm not sure if it's just an age thing or if really the conversation around it has changed a little bit. But yeah, asking if you're pregnant or why, it's going to happen. So for the individual who's not drinking,

just prepare yourself with what you're going to say. I literally would walk through this in the beginning. I used to say I wasn't drinking because I was training for a marathon. That was my excuse in the beginning before I got really comfortable with it. You're like you are. I'm training for the marathon of living life because it's fucking hard. Literally. I'm on life's marathon. hard. Literally. I'm on life's marathon. That's so true. I'm on life's marathon. Yeah. So yeah, that was my excuse for a while was like, I'm training for a marathon. And then it got to be like, what is this marathon? I'm running them all the time. I'm so athletic. It's an Ironman. Yeah, I'm on it. But then as I got more confident, and I think it's in your own decision, right? Like, I've made this choice.

I know it's going to be forever. But for anyone that hears it at like two months or three months, are they going to think I'm just going to, you know, flip and go back? So I felt like this buffer time, I wanted to really like solidify it and have enough time pass where I could say, you know, I think around six months, I started saying, you know, I actually used to have a problem with alcohol, but I stopped drinking and it's freaking awesome so i actually just don't drink anymore yeah and that's it and then people be like that's so cool like my aunt is also sober or my brother's also sober or or still struggling and like again the vulnerability of like being able to share your own truth like you can't imagine how many people on the other side like want to

talk about their story too or their connection with it. They don't get to. They don't get to get it off their chest that their dad was an alcoholic and what their life's been like because of that. And you get a chance to help people express that and to, at the same time, feel confident in sharing your own story and owning your own truth and knowing that it's not shameful. It's fucking awesome. When I first started Dope, people would be like, are you going to tell investors that you're sober? Aren't you worried they're going to think you're like loose cannon or something? And I literally was like, I can't wait to tell them I'm sober. Being sober is like a superpower.

It's what connected me to you immediately when I saw you pitch. Thank you. Yeah. When I saw you pitch, I was like, oh, okay. Founder willing to be vulnerable, willing to talk about the hard shit. Like, that's what you want from a CEO. Like, that's what you want. You don't want somebody who's like, not willing to talk about all of the messy things about being alive, you know? For sure. And that decision to get sober is like, you saw something wasn't working in your life, and you changed it. Which is business owner 101. You pivoted. Totally. Yeah. It's just the model for anyone in life to be able to say like,

hey, and I continue to do this. I continue to evaluate what is or isn't working in my life right now. And if something's not working anymore, change it. We're always evolving. It doesn't just stop. Getting sober let me have this kind of clarity over that to say, you know, I want to take control and like keep evaluating my life. And you just, you're like a, like shedding these layers of an onion over time of like, this one just doesn't,

I just don't need this anymore. I don't need this anymore. And making sure you're staying true to yourself. So sobriety was that first step that kind of like, like cleared my glasses off so I could see and focus on what I, what I want to be. I didn't expect to ask you this question, but you touched on something that

I think a lot of people struggle with, which is like, do I bring my authentic self to work? Like, do I bring my full self to work? And part of me is like, hell yes. And the other part of me is like, do I bring my authentic self to work? Like, do I bring my full self to work? And part of me is like, hell yes. And the other part of me is like, no. Like, there's... Like, depends on yourself. Right. Well, and it's also, it's like your work situation.

Like, I have talked to a lot of my friends of color who are like, I cannot bring my full self to work because I will, there will be inherent bias that happens. And if I want that promotion, if I want to succeed, I am afraid of getting stereotyped in a way that I don't want. So I can't bring my full self to work. And I totally get that. So for you, what was that decision?

And are there times where you're like, actually, this doesn't feel like a safe place to bring my full self? Well, thanks for sharing that other lens of it. It's so important to remember that we don't all have the same privileges to be ourselves and like to bring our full selves to work. Well, with vulnerability in particular, Brene Brown has this great quote where she's like, vulnerability is a great thing, but it must be earned. Like vulnerability has to be earned through a sense of mutual trust and like mutual giving. So like, you know, if you're willing to go out and be vulnerable, it's because you feel safe and

you feel like somebody has earned that vulnerability. Vulnerability is my number one mission and value for me as Tori Dunlap. But there are plenty of times where I will show up in a situation and I'm like, oh, you do not deserve my vulnerability. You have not earned that vulnerability because there's not this mutual sense of trust. So that's the lens that I've taken is that I will be vulnerable unless you give me a reason not to be, in which case, if you have not earned it, I am not willing to show up as vulnerable for you. Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting. I guess I think over these last six years, since starting Dope and then late 2017 was the first time I had shared that I was sober from Dope's platform. And as soon as that happened, and those responses we got from people,

it was a grand opening of our little kiosk on Market Street. And it was my two-year sober birthday. So we said, if you say it's dope to be sober at checkout, you'll get 20% off in honor of the founder's sober birthday. And this is what kicked off Dope for Hope and everything because people responding to that, it just blew me away. Like what an impact I could have by choosing to be vulnerable. You know, someone was like DMing saying, I'm two weeks sober.

Do you know of any good meetings in the city? It's so cool to hear that you're sober. Someone was 13 years sober and said he had never told anyone and that it was awesome to see me sharing this publicly. And I just was totally like, I felt like everything, my whole ego and self and all the concerns and worries just melted away because it was like, I want to reach more people like this to let them know that they're not alone. They're not the only ones going through versions of what I've gone through and that they should feel safe and comfortable sharing it too.

So I really, it's funny to think about this. I've never pondered this question if I'm not vulnerable for anyone, but I really am not. I'm really like this with anyone that I meet. And I actually find it like a nice challenge if someone does seem like they have a bit of a wall up. They do seem a little bit rough around the edges and maybe it feels like I shouldn't trust them. I do share and I do open up. And then sure enough, they needed to talk more than anybody else about what was really on them. I don't know. I found that it really is this incredible tool to break the walls of the world where everyone can seem so tough and rough and harsh.

But like, if you just soften up and talk about what's really going on in your life, you just can't imagine what the person on the other side needed to talk about too. Yeah. And I want to be clear. I share that same mission. Like it's the same thing for me. I've just also learned it's really about boundaries. Like I was like so vulnerable with everybody and then got to the point where I was like so vulnerable with everybody and then got to the point where I was like, this level of vulnerability sometimes doesn't make sense in our relationship. Like, you know, because that, that trust hasn't been built in the, in that same way. So I think it's, it's really just figuring out like, what do I want to keep private between me

and somebody else or just, you know, for me or with this community versus like giving out vulnerability, like it was free. And I was like, ooh, we are going to continue to be vulnerable, but yeah, with boundaries. Yeah, you got to do what feels right for you. I obviously love your work. I love Dope. I've talked about it already. It's such a great product. And of course, it's with this mission of supporting recovery. How do you find that you balance because it's a for-profit business with this mission? It's something that I'm trying to figure out and struggling with of like, I have to make money at

the end of the day. I have to pay my people. I have to make sure that I have a roof over my head. We have business objectives. We have investors to answer to. And at the same time, I have this big life goal or this mission driving me, the purpose of this work. How do you find the balance between those two things? Yeah, it's really interesting. This has come a few times through the journey of the business where I've had conversations with other business owners who just can't imagine it.

They're like, there's just not a penny to spare. We just won't be able to. And I think when you talk about the monetary side of it, this part in particular is really... It is just that firm decision that we're going to do it. And once that's off... It's literally when we look at our unit economics, the 1% to SheRecovers Foundation is like, it's the line item in there. We know that this is coming off from everyone. Just like we look at discounts, just like we look at returns, cost to acquire, customer shipping costs. The 1% donation is just like, it's in there. So there's...

Baked in. Baked in. Oh, I love a good pun. I'm so upset. I missed it. Okay. I should have caught that one. Okay. No, I was talking over you and that's on me. I was just really excited. I love it. It is baked in. Yeah, but you do. You have to bake it in. And then even for our company, which we've navigated so dramatically from being brick and mortar to moving fully e-commerce to launching in more than a thousand grocery store doors last year. The business has transitioned so many times. And the last three years, we have not been profitable. We've lost a significant amount of money each year. But would I even for a moment consider that the donations or our work on Dope for Hope,

all of the community efforts we do around that should go away? Hell fucking no. Because I think the community that we've built, the revenue that we do have, and opportunities we are getting are all because of the mission. It's like it is the core and you just can't sacrifice that. So we have a really great product. It's super hard to kill a good product. I love... Someone told me this a long time ago. They're like, if you have a really good product, it's hard to kill it. It's going to be hard to kill the business. So I know every time I'm just like, I know we're

going to find a way. And now we're on track to break even this year. And we'll just continue climbing from here. So I think that you just have to consider it like an absolute non-negotiable. If it's really what you believe in and what you want to make true, everything else will find a way. It's kind of like, look at your personal budgeting. Tori, this is totally your world. But look at your personal budgeting of if I put these things aside for it like someone goes oh there's no way i could afford this like car i want to be able to buy well if you chunk away this amount of money every month and you save for it and you like you know do the right things invest following all of tori's advice then you'll be able to get your lamborghini so right yeah is that what i get lambo okay yeah it's the lamborghini always every time lambo

ice cream lambo and i think it's the other side of it too because you know it's predominantly women listening to the show and the other thing i hear from so many people who want to be business owners who or who are business owners um is this like oh i need to give all of my profits because i can't make money and we've talked many times on the show about how that is like misogyny and play of like, believing you don't deserve money is the patriarchy telling you that you shouldn't pursue it. And like, good on all those women for like being overflowing in profits. Can we just say that's like a basic? Oh, totally. It's altruism, right? But I have a whole section in my book of like weaponized altruism. But the truth is, it's like, you can't make that 1% donation if you don't have anything coming in. and you can't run this business if you're not taking care of yourself

and your team first. So there is the other flip side of that balance too. And this is all the time, something that I struggle with of like, okay, I want to do so much good in the world. And also in order to do good in the world, the company has to make money. So it's, it's finding that balance of like not giving up everything, but also not being like Scrooge McDuck greedy where I'm not giving back in any way. And that's honestly like, don't be Scrooge. It's like, you've got to have a why.

Entrepreneurship is super hard. It's so freaking hard. You're literally in tears like, sometimes every other day, sometimes it waits a couple of months. Like it's ebbs and flows, but like hour by hour, you're sure that it's going to die and crash and burn. literally in tears like sometimes every other day sometimes it waits a couple of months like it's ebbs and flows but like hour by hour you're sure that it's gonna die and crash and burn and then absolutely it's the best thing that's ever happened so it's just crazy kelsey i think you

and i have talked about that's literally my experience and i want to echo that like literally i'll have an hour where i'm like i'm gonna burn this to the ground like i don't care it's awful and then the next hour i'm like you know yeah we'll get a lovely message from somebody. And I'm like, okay, it's okay. We're doing it. And then the next hour, I'm like, nope. It is the most roller coaster. I sometimes imagine if I didn't have the why, I have a folder of all these emails from customers, the comments that have really moved me, that that kind of thing. You save that and like on the hard days, you open that shit up and you're like, we got to keep going.

So I feel like there's so many deeper reasons like to do good with your business, to be a good human and do this for more than just you, you know, find your why. And like having that at your, the core of your business is just, it makes the hard days like you can keep going. My last question for you.

We have a lot of women in our community who are either sober curious, alcohol free, your business is just, it makes the hard days like you can keep going. My last question for you. We have a lot of women in our community who are either sober curious, alcohol free, like myself, they're starting to think more intentionally about their consumption of alcohol. What encouragement do you have for women who are on this path? For one, just yay for being on the path because starting to even acknowledge or consider it up until fully being on this journey of sobriety, good on you. And I'm so happy to be on the same journey with you. There's just so much joy ahead. So if you're struggling and trying to figure out if this is right for you, stick with it and find a community that you can engage with. I'll plug SheRecovers here

because this is our foundation that we donate to for dope. But genuinely the most amazing group of women, it's like 300,000 women in a Facebook community, something like 100,000 are in the private one. Unbelievable vulnerability. You want to talk about openness and being able to say what's going on, ask a question, talk about what's on your mind. 80 women are going to respond to you

with so much loving kindness. They do multiple meetings a day. And She Recovers has this whole thing that, you know, you talked about not being in recovery earlier. They have this saying that everyone's in recovery from something. So they touch, you know, mental health, life challenges, all sorts of things. And then of course, substance use disorder as well. But everybody's in recovery from something. We've all gone through some difficulty in our life, some transformational moment or period, and we're in a new path. And being in recovery is just trying to be a more

enlightened version of yourself. And that's something we should all strive to do. And it's better when we're together. So finding a community you can connect with that gets you and has been on this road, and you just wouldn't believe how eye-opening it is to hear other stories and go, oh shit, I'm not the only one. Like me too. This is kind of the old days reason for the 12-step programs was like sitting around and hearing stories of other people that have walked your path. In my early sobriety hearing one, it was actually a gentleman in the room who had gotten sober at my same age and i was 24 and he had gotten sober at 24 and he was at the time like 35 or something and saying how incredible it is that i just got on this journey and how his wife today has only ever known this sober version of

him how he gets to be the most present dad to his children and like here i am fast forward i'm 32 this year and I'm that. I'm that. I followed those steps. I followed that example I got to here and that community that told me it's not just me. I'm not the only one. And that's my advice. Keep going. I love that. Kelsey, where can people find more about you? Dope.com. Got my shirt on. Check out all sorts of stuff about dope at dope.com. It's dope with a P on the end. I know we've just been saying it through this, but it's felt a little crazy.

So d-o-u-g-h-p.com. We're also at dope on Instagram. If you join like our text list, we do our Mental Health Monday text, literally asking like one high and one low from your last week. And someone from our team literally responds to you and has a conversation about what's going on.

So yeah, just connect with us and get involved in the community. Personally, you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active there like you, Tori. Not quite on your level, but I'm working on it. So please do connect with me there. I'm Kelsey Moreta. It's M-O-R-E-I-R-A. Tori will like this. It's more IRA. There you go. I do. Investment. Roth IRA. I got you. I got you. I'm picking up on you right now. I love a good Roth IRA. It's the only way I get anyone to spell my last name. So now you won't forget. I love it. And truly, you and I have been friends for a while. I'm not just saying this. It is the best product, the best mission. One of the best things that you can do as a financial feminist is take your money and support the kind of organizations you want to see.

So I have given dope to friends and family for birthdays. We've done like corporate gifts with dope. I have bought my fair share of it for myself. Like it is the kind of company I want to see more of in the world. So we'll link everything down in the show notes. So thank you for being here. Thank you for your vulnerability. Go team, have a dope day.

Thank you. Yay. Thank you for listening to Financial Feminist, a Her First 100K podcast. Financial Feminist is hosted by me, Tori Dunlap, produced by Kristen Fields, associate producer Tamisha Grant, marketing and administration by Karina Patel, Sophia Cohen, Khalil Dumas, Elizabeth McCumber, Beth Bowen, Amanda LeFue, Masha Bakhmikieva, Kaylin Sprinkle, Sumaya Molokurio, and Harvey Carlson.

Research by Arielle Johnson. Audio engineering by Alyssa Medcalf. Promotional graphics by Mary Stratton. Photography by Sarah Wolf. And theme music by Jonah Cohen Sound. A huge thanks to the entire Her First 100K team and community for supporting the show. For more information about Financial Feminist, Her First 100K, our guests, and episode show notes, visit financialfeministpodcast.com.