Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - Griffin Dunne
Episode Date: June 12, 2024Shooting a comedy during a real life tragedy, friendship with Carrie Fisher, and Trump coming to set with Griffin Dunne. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://ww...w.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Griffin Dunn is our guest today.
He's been part of Americana for many, many decades.
Actually, his first giant movie was
An American Werewolf in London,
that is a classic war film.
Such a cool movie.
Yeah, and he did a lot of great movies.
He's out with a memoir now.
His father, Dominic Dunn, famously covered the OJ trial.
He's had quite a journey in life.
He'll talk about his deep, deep childhood friendship going into adulthood with Carrie
Fisher and we'll go over how he writes and creativity and just life as a celebrity.
And he's a jack of all trades.
He writes, produces, directed, writes, produces.
I feel like I'm reading an ad.
Writes, produces, directs, and acts.
So, and he's a delightful person,
just incredibly real, super likable.
Light on his feet, a lot of fun.
I got turned on him when I saw After Hours.
I had seen American Werewolf also,
but After Hours was such a cool movie by,
what is it, Scorsese?
Marty Scorsese.
Yeah, Marty.
So that's a big deal.
So I think you're gonna have a good time with him.
We did, here he is, Griffin Dunn.
Hello, hello, hello. Come in, Earth to Griffin. Come in, I, hello.
Come in, Earth to Griffin.
Come in, I'm here.
Oh my God.
We do this for a living.
See all this great light I'm in?
Look at this shit.
You really thought this through.
Thank you for noticing that.
Look at me.
I'm told this isn't being filmed, So I got the hair thing going on.
Oh no, I don't like it when you agree to go on a podcast
and go, we're gonna do a little shooting.
Actually, I'm taking my hat off too.
You're brave enough to look like that.
I'm gonna take my hat off.
Okay.
Your energy and vibe reminds me of David Duchovny.
Really? Already?
Yes, because there's something about, oh, I'm also a medium,
also just looking at all your stuff. I don't know, you guys are both sort of smart, but you don't
wear it on your sleeve. Well, thank you for that, because he's a fairly recent friend. I don't know
if you noticed, he gave a beautiful blurb for me on the book.
Oh.
He was one of my very earliest readers.
Polar alert.
Because he's an incredible, he was never an actor.
Yeah.
He would have been a great novelist independently of that.
His novels are so good.
Really?
Yeah.
Like a seriously good writer.
He didn't need this acting shit at all.
Well, acting kind of sucks, doesn't it?
He's got more energy, Dana.
This guy, Griffin, has more energy than the company.
I don't know.
I'm trying to think of a trifecta
because I always think of the Texas trifecta,
McConaughey, Woody, and Owen Wilson. So if there's a third
part to this, but acting sucks, we know that. We had John Corbett on the podcast, Sex and the City
Guy, and at the end he just goes, and he's an incredibly nice guy, very, very interesting,
funny, but he said, I made the wrong career choice because I hate being told what to do.
Yeah.
But you direct too though.
I do.
I do.
Just going back to one more of doppelganger.
We like to go everywhere.
Is the one that every time I look at this guy, I go, he's not doing me, but I'm doing
him or he's doing me.
But I feel in the same thing as
Steve Carell, I was thinking that
Before he said every time and you know, I stopped acting for a while then we'll get back to how shitty it is and
But I stopped acting for a while and then I kind of went and took a checkoff workshop by this
Pretentious Russian guy out of the Russian acting institute.
Perfect.
You didn't speak a word of English and you had a translator and I did Uncle Vanya and I went,
oh my God, I got to get back to acting. At this age that I'm at now, I'm tragic and funny, tragic
and funny. I'm just born for Chek Chekov and now Steve Carell is doing Uncle
Vanya.
Oh wow.
There is.
Yeah but also with the office and the whole thing anyway I've always had a some sort of
no no he would have done after hours potentially.
And he would have been great in it.
Not as good as you.
No and he's a good friend. What can after hours? I think I smell a Golden Globe nomination.
That was for you for after hours.
Oh, yes, I did. I get nominated.
That's when the Golden Globes was nine people from Europe.
You know what it was?
It was like, it was after the Pia Zadora thing.
It was a controversy.
But they gave her an award for winning.
And it was clearly kind of bought by Menachem Gold.
So when I went, it was so unhip
and my fellow nominees were like Jack Nicholson
and one incredible person after another.
And no one showed except me and
Jeff Daniels was at another table and we're the only nominees in our category. We're going,
what the hell are we doing here? And I'm at a table with just Warner Brothers secretaries
who they were given, they're so thrilled to be at the Golden Globes.
Right. And, but it was considered a really tacky thing.
And when they were announcing the, the nominees, the camera guy, you know,
they stick the cameras, you see your face filled with anticipation, hoping you'll get it.
Or pretending you don't care.
The, the cameraman, I'm looking at the monitor while they're doing it.
The cameraman is filming a guy who looks kind of like me. And the guy is so
excited to be on camera. He starts waving going like, hi, like, hi, mom.
And the camera was right next to me and I just gave him a little kick. And if you
watch it, you can see it on YouTube. The camera just goes to the right as the guy falls down.
So a guy gets your doppelganger gets knocked over and then did you have a speech prepared?
Or did anyone watch it then or was it the 85?
No one watched it. It was on like you know channel nine.
Yeah it was on early 2B.
Out of Winamucca. Channel nine and Winamucca.
Winamucca.
Yeah I think Pia Zadora, I've only heard
in Dennis Miller references, that's about it.
But she did have that whole hubbub.
Well, you know, she's actually a very sweet person.
I've met her, but you know, when she was also on Broadway,
So bad.
They had a, when she was on Broadway,
which was also kind of a paid for production a bit,
you know, but what I love?
On opening night, it was going so horribly.
She was playing Anne Frank in Dire Van Frank.
At the very end,
when the Nazis break into the apartment,
someone yells from the audience,
she's in the attic,
and the whole place falls apart. Oh, I have a hot take for Griffin on theater.
This is a new story just after this weekend, and I know he has a lot of thoughts.
So, oh, Heather's going to laugh.
The Lion King on Broadway, Dana.
Yes.
You've heard of this play. It's a play, Griffin. It's a musical we call it.
I vaguely heard of it. Nathan Lane voiced in the movie.
They have the auditions for...what's the person? Simba.
After all the singers come in, all the kids and all the super talents in town, Who gets the part? Kim Kardashian's daughter.
Is she our P is Adora.
She, she, she, she Simba.
Yeah.
She is 10 years old.
Maybe she played it.
She sang it and, uh, and it was the other way.
She got a standing over this Hollywood, Hollywood bowl this weekend, I guess.
And there was a little bit of a hubbub going,
wait, I don't remember her at the auditions.
And everyone's like, well, you know what's up now.
My attitude toward that is no one ever asked
to be born from a wealthy family
or no one ever asked to have a famous dad.
So I'm instantly rooting for her
and I'm hoping that she was great because she didn't ask for this.
She's just a kid and she's 10 and she's in the car.
No one's going after the kid. It's more like the situation where is that
detrimental for the kid to cut her in front of the line?
Is it sort of child abuse? Um, I'm going to go to Griffin.
I'm going to go to Griffin. I'm cheating this more like I'm David Susskind.
Yeah.
Let's go to, it's gotta be a certain age.
Robin, yeah, we go Robin.
I'm going to Griffin to weigh in,
who for our listeners don't know,
grew up in a very asymmetrical household
with massive Hollywood parties and celebrity and all that.
So you might have something to say.
Yeah.
Mr. Dunn, if you will.
I guess, if you don't mind calling me that.
I actually, you know, this whole, you know, we've been constantly inventing new words to degrade people. And the
latest one is nipple babies. And my feeling about that is, I don't think it should be an automatic
thing. But if we denied, you know, people who were just because they were related to someone, I mean, we wouldn't
have Robert Downey Jr. We wouldn't have the Bridges. We'd lose out on many.
Michael Douglas.
Michael Douglas. It only gets you so far. It gets you maybe in the room. And it's also a brutal
business. When I decided to become an actor, I was in my late teens and my father who had been a
successful film producer or a successful television producer, a moderately successful film producer,
but then had sort of imploded in his life
by the time I entered.
And I watched the business,
the powerful agents in the studios cut him dead.
So he really couldn't, as much as he wanted to help me,
he didn't, he couldn't.
It was more detrimental at that point almost.
Well, wait a minute. You're saying Hollywood agents and managers, when the money dried
up, were not still loyal friends? Is this what you're suggesting?
Don't say that.
You know, it's shocking, but they did not stick by him. They did not lend him money.
They did not offer him lots of opportunities.
Was it only because he was doing less as careers go,
all of ours, it slows down at a certain point.
So they just kind of faded out.
Yeah, he sort of-
He didn't do anything wrong.
Actually, he was like,
he got sober years later,
but he was really funny.
But when he would get high or stoned or something, he'd be really funny, but he might say something that would be really
scandalous that would find himself in a gossip column and then get in
trouble and be pulled off a movie.
Um, it will not happen.
I'm sure none of us can relate to that.
He just imploded in his career and then got it back and
reinvented himself as a writer later on once he got sober.
Back to the inheritance thing, uh, you
know, and, and, uh, nepotism and everything, it's, it's, it only gets you so far.
Um, and the rest is yours to screw up, you know?
Right.
It's good and bad, I guess.
It's yeah.
I mean, one, well, there's ways to go now.
I don't know.
Show business is very different. I'm going to make a bold statement, but you know, there's ways to go now. I don't know, show business is very different.
I'm gonna make a bold statement, but you know, I would,
like someone gave him a hip hop manager, hip hop producer,
and if they can dance a little bit and you know,
I mean, there's ways to manufacture it now.
Yeah, right.
When we grew up, it was different, but just so people know your story, like,
so your dad was, became infamous and met for many
reasons and your book I'm just curious you must cover all this right in your book I'm just bringing
it up the Friday afternoon club coming out June 11th you better and you have quite a story I mean
I saw last night my wife and I watched one of your documentaries thought it was brilliant Jane
Last night, my wife and I watched one of your documentaries, thought it was brilliant. Jane, Joan Didion documentary. Fascinating.
And you directed that, right?
I did indeed. She was my aunt.
Yeah. So you're in an ecosystem of a lot of talented people.
Yeah.
And you fit in well.
Well, thank you.
Thank you. Yes, my aunt and uncle when I was growing up were well known writers.
My uncle was John Gregory Dunn. And then when my father sort of reinvented himself,
he became what he always wanted to be, was a writer writer and then he became a crime journalist for Vanity Fair,
covered the biggest trials, OJ, the Menendez trials, and he was a real strong presence in
the courtroom and a courtroom pundit on- Oh yeah, and Vanity Fair, all those articles.
Can I ask you a question about
that? Like, because people, a lot of people would say, I want to write, you know? So I'm just curious,
what age was your dad when he, you know, he kind of went off the radar. He, he drove through Oregon
and ended up in a cabin. I mean, it's really down and out. And then he started to send letters to you that were in New York, 10, 20, 30 pages long.
And you tell that he was practicing how, what was his writer.
So how old was he when he, he wrote that his first book?
He was 50, 51, 52, like, you know, he was not published until he was about 51, I think. And
that was in Vanity Fair. And that was, that was writing about, um, starting pretty high.
Yeah. Well, he was, he, he, he came back to New York, really just started over.
He was a guy who went through a lot of money
and started in New York in the 80s, coming back to New York
in really humble circumstances, and a smaller apartment
than my first apartment in New York.
than my first apartment in New York.
But when he really found his voice was, you know, tragically when, you know,
his daughter, my sister was murdered and he wrote about it.
Tina, before he left for the trial,
before we all left for the trial,
he met Tina Brown who was just starting at Vanity Fair to take over.
And she said he was explaining how scared he was and intimidated he was by the judicial system.
We'd never been in a courtroom, certainly in these circumstances. And she said, keep a diary, you know, a family's perspective of their first time, their abrupt
awakening of the judicial system, you know, as interesting. Yeah. She said, keep a diary.
And he did. And he wrote this, his very first published piece in his fifties was in Vanity Fair.
And it was about what our family went through during the trial. And it was, it's a landmark piece in terms of victims' rights
and in court procedure and in injustice
is an example of courtroom injustice.
So from then on, he found his voice
and he became the, became the vanity,
fair crime correspondent, uh, covering these trials always with the victims in
mind. He always thought of Nicole and the Brown family or Ilana Clarkson,
who was killed by Phil Spector always had that perspective.
And David and I could relate to what,
what I think you go into probably in the book that the emotional impetus
was he was had a rough time with his dad or just the sense of being bullied and David and
I both experienced that.
Me specifically, David maybe he's a more his nickname silver spoon.
No, but we both root for people fighting the bully and you can tell that it was visceral
with your dad.
He did not hate bullies.
Too hard.
That's why I loved him.
Yeah.
I love reading him because he just hated the bullies.
He really did.
He really did.
He, you know, when he, you know, when you're, when you are bullied and you're a
child, you grow up with a lot of fear around you, you grow up, you know,
constantly nervous and you know, when he and when he found his voice, he became fearless and just
fought back at all those people.
All those people who had the money, who had the power, who were always keeping him down.
And it was an incredible transformation to see.
Hey friends, Ted Danson here. And it was an incredible transformation to see. to reconnect after Cheers rap 30 years ago. Plus we're introducing each other to the friends we've met since,
like Jane Fonda, Conan O'Brien, Eric Andre,
Mary Steenburgen, my wife,
and Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
And trust me, it's always a great hang when Woody's there.
So why wait?
Listen to where everybody knows your name
wherever you get your podcasts.
["The Red Hot Chili Peppers"] ["The Red Hot Chili Peppers"] wherever you get your podcasts.
What, what, what a, what a story.
What happened to your sister and how your dad kept the diary and how the,
as a family being there, that is just, that is beyond
anything I could imagine. Cause courtrooms I've been in them.
They're weird. They're strange cold people say crazy shit on that stand you know their line and I didn't even know about paid liars in my trial
everything comes out about your family and you don't want it you don't see that coming half the
stuff probably yeah no they they they try to destroy the person that, uh, the, the one that was,
that was killed or raped or whatever the thing, they, they tried to destroy the reputation
of the very person that was a.
Blame the victim.
Like with me, I had a bypass.
They bypass the wrong artery.
I'm fine.
But it happens. But they tried to say it was my fault because I had
crazy anatomy in there. That was their only defense. Isn't that something? Yeah.
Yeah. And so they blamed the victim. But anyway,
what was particularly surreal for me though, during the trial was in Santa Monica.
The trial was in Santa Monica and I was, my whole family, we went every day to represent
Dominique, my sister. On the days that I was not in trial, I was shooting a ridiculously funny
comedy called Johnny Dangerously with Michael Keaton. Saw it.
Mike Keaton. Saw it. Mike Keaton. Who became a great friend of mine.
I was playing Tommy Doyle,
fighting DA and trying to catch the criminal.
I was like a Mickey Rooney character.
Really? Like hyperactive?
Hyperactive. It was an incredible release to be able to,
which my family did not have,
to be able to put that aside and then just go and just be hilariously funny.
Yeah.
The funniest people on Earth.
Or at least they didn't pop my concentration by
asking me where I spent my days off from the movie.
Oh, great. And I was just, I had, it's absurd, almost sinful to say, but I had so much fun making this movie. And it just was such a release. And then I go from-
Yeah. Such a bummer, the extreme opposite. Just walk into a courtroom and just-
No schizophrenic. I go from 28th Century Fox to Santa Monica courtroom
and do this back and forth.
And such a, because I watched the trailer again
and I did see the movie and loved it.
I loved it.
What are you doing?
Come on, get out here.
I know.
And it was really balls out silly.
It was really, really funny.
Almost like airplane or something.
Yeah.
So I totally relate to compartmentalization just sort of happens intuitively. You get your
get up on in the movie, you could be kind of sad in the trailer. So you get out there and then
you see Joe Piscobo or Michael Keaton, there's your lines and you're doing ridiculous stuff.
I mean, that is the dichotomy of those two things is hysterical.
Yeah.
Bizarre.
Yeah. And I was very, very grateful and very lucky of those two things is hysterical. Yeah.
Bizarre.
Yeah.
And I was very, very grateful and very lucky to have had that.
You know, Michael Keaton is a blast too.
He's super cool.
He's the greatest and he's probably, yeah, he was on where you are.
He was where you are.
He was in a box on his Zoom.
We were about a month ago.
Yeah.
He's about, yeah, I could see how you and him would just be, could talk for hours
without even missing a telling stories. Yeah. No, no, we hit it off like right away. And,
you know, that was over 40 years ago. And, you know, he's been a, we've been really close
friends ever since he's funny as hell. Yeah, he's just funny and just and you're the same way. Just no pretense.
I mean, loose guy. No sense of any awareness of that he's Michael Keaton at all. No, I was
going to ask you, uh, just pivoting around here. Like, cause I wanted to say to Michael Keaton,
what I thought his superpower was, was that he's just really, really good thinking on camera.
He's great at thinking.
And we'd tell him how the founder was his sleeper movie.
But for you, I was just gonna ask you,
because you got in American War Wolf in London,
which I think is, I think it's a classic horror comedy film.
Sure.
And you're in massive prosthetics.
Was that the first time?
Because I love looking in the mirror and it doesn't look like me, but thatetics. Was that the first time?
Because I love looking in the mirror and it doesn't look like me, but that's, is that
your first time?
Yeah, it was.
That was, that was baptized by fire.
Rick Baker.
Rick Baker, the genius Rick Baker.
He you know, when I, I never read for the movie, I'd never done in a movie that started
the movie, maybe a small part here and there, but Landis didn't even, the director, John Landis,
didn't even audition me.
He just, we talked for about 10 minutes.
I'd done nothing.
And he gave me a card.
All he asked was, are you-
Wow, Landis, who was probably still,
he was huge at that point.
He was huge.
The Animal House, the number one movie.
Oh my God, Ant-Man.
So he talked to you in what way?
Like he came to his office or if you know,
and as he did all the talking,
I don't remember saying a thing.
All he did was ask me,
are you claustrophobic?
I said no, I would have said yes.
I would have said no, even if it was yes.
So I figured it was a guy trapped in an elevator. He wouldn't tell me what the movie was yes. So I figured it was a guy trapped in an elevator.
He wouldn't tell me what the movie was about.
Um, and he gives me the part and he says, you're going to Los
Angeles for makeup.
Oh, I read the script.
Thought it was amazing.
He sent a guy to my apartment, made him stand in the hallway and made
me hand the script back and, uh, nine hours later, yeah, I'm a slow reader. Anyway, I went to LA for a makeup test and they
put my head in plaster with two straws. Terrifying. Terrifying. That's what he meant about the
claustrophobia. Yeah. He is terrifying.
And you don't have to feel that way.
And your entire life depends on these two straws.
And- I know.
Did you- That's the scary part.
Did you give a signal?
Or you just were, how were you-
They didn't even vote.
Yeah, give me a safe sign.
I think they left the room and had lunch.
Cause it's terrible.
I've had it and I've had panic attacks.
Yeah, but I held it.
But I was...
And then what happened was,
is that they get it on your head for people who don't know,
and they keep going.
Then you can't hear.
Yeah.
It goes out, you can't see,
then it's shut in your mouth,
and there's just these two little straws.
If someone closed those off, your light's out.
Yeah.
And then what they do, they're-
In order for it to pull out, you know.
Yes, yes.
And they're working on you
and they're kind of frantically working on you.
And what you hear inside the thing is,
more, kind of,
Yeah, yeah.
So I thought they were panicked.
Yeah.
So then they redid it.
And I said, guys, just talk softly.
Like, let's do this here.
So, all right, go ahead.
So you do that.
Then he puts on, then they start to apply it and Rick and each new layer.
Yeah.
Don't want to look like a pussy in front of Rick.
You do not.
I eventually did because when I look at that wiggly vein on my neck and he's painting it,
and I looked at my face torn in half. Oh, Claude. So, Claude, but it was the first transformation
and the first application. And when I saw that, you know, some people love Halloween and, you know,
they love to have their head cut off and the hatchets in their head.
I never quite had that about the relationship to Halloween.
Most people would have loved this,
but I was kind of freaked out by it.
I was like, wow, this is what I would look like if I died violently.
Really, I don't know if I died violently, really.
Scary, scary.
Yeah.
You know, my mother has always had health problems and has had MMS and I thought,
this is going to really upset her. And so, you know, of course people, once we were shooting,
they wanted to take me into pubs and give people heart attacks and...
Right.
I just wasn't into it. I was, I was there. I was, I don't know.
But part of it, I mean, the scene that I was looking at yesterday is like you're in all this
thing and you look like a werewolf zombie man. It's incredibly intense. It's not funny makeup.
It's not comedic at all, but you're talking very real and casual. And I think that that's probably what Landis picked up from you,
that you could be a real regular person.
You wouldn't be theatrical.
If you don't want to be, you're just not acting.
You're basically...
You wanted the rhythm, the way I talk or something.
The casual looking that crazy.
And then like, you know, you're going to have to,
you're going to be a werewolf in 24 hours.
I think that's exactly right.
And the transition that is still chilling. I think it was James Naughton.
David Naughton.
David.
And he turns into one.
And I'd never seen anything like that in the movie.
Just the stretching and the sound.
I know.
All natural.
No CGI.
That took, you know, David was, you know, prone.
We're on all fours for, you know, for like a-
Yeah.
Oh really?
They applied hair by hair, you know, all over-
Sick.
You know, in a related story, it's not related at all,
but I had to get that stuff on my face for a life mask
and Dana and I did the same thing.
And they put it in the guy goes,
some people really panic.
I go, well, not me.
Cause I'm like, obviously super tough.
And then they get closer and they go, now we're gonna the ears.
And they kept telling me, are you okay so far?
I go, yeah, yeah, let's just get it over with.
And they go, well, some people, it makes them panic.
And they literally like slowly put it like over my mouth
and I go, take it off, take it off. Immediate panic, immediate like they just told me and I was all
prepped for it. I couldn't even believe how fast my body changed and my brain just said,
I can't handle this. And then I had someone get me a value from the car or a certain car.
And then I took it right there and I was like, I hope this takes effect within seconds because I
couldn't believe how scared I was and how I had to get out of that thing.
It reminds us of that Jeff Daniels debacle on FNL, but that's the scariest you can have.
Do you know about the Jeff Daniels?
No, I don't.
I don't.
What happened?
He got a, you know it better, David.
I think you were there.
He had a life mask put on, but they used the wrong-
They used real plaster, I think. They used real plaster instead of whatever they use for us.
And they had to get the paramedics in there to get it off.
Was this years ago or or or SNL or early 90s?
Yeah, relax 90s data.
Jesus. Yeah.
He it was when I was there and you I miss your show,
Griffin, by a little bit.
Dana missed it barely.
And Daniels was about 93, 94.
And he said, they said, do not.
He goes, he wrote down, I feel sick.
And they go, don't throw up or you'll die.
Cause you know, if you throw up in your mouth, it doesn't know where to go.
No, there's nowhere you're, you're, you're Jimmy Hendrix.
So they couldn't get it off for hours anyway.
I'm not gonna.
So I've got two that I want to add.
Well, one is I read the excerpt from your book, which, uh, I'll just say it.
I could tell you, you really are a great writer.
I know you've written screenplays and stuff, but now you have a memoir.
Um, and the excerpt that they released, the PR people, was all about you and Carrie Fisher,
which was hysterical.
I don't know if you want to just preview that a little bit.
Such an interesting...
We met when she was 15, I was 16.
And we lived some blocks away from each other,
and we just became immediate best friends.
We talked to each other in song,
breaking into silly musicals whenever we'd have conversations.
When I moved to New York to be an actor,
well, she also introduced me to a girl. I don't think this is in the excerpt,
but she introduced me to a girl that I eloped at the age of 17 to Tijuana and married.
And she just wanted stories out of me. And then I went to New York and we became roommates in New York.
Interesting.
My narrative of being in New York was to be a starving, struggling New York actor who lived in the East Village.
That was what I was doing.
Then Carrie came to New York to be in
the chorus of a musical that her mother, Debbie
Reynolds, was in.
And I would always go backstage and, you know, I knew all the stage hands while the show
was going on and the lyrics to all the songs.
And one night Debbie said, I need you to, Carrie wants to live in New York, but I won't, she, I won't let her live alone.
I, we had found an apartment for the two of you. It's in a building called the days artis,
which is a very fancy on the upper west side. And I go, no, I'm a village guy. I was born to
be in a village. You can't do that. And, and, but they, they were maids rooms in the Desartines and they weren't the big loft windows that
it was famous for.
And we lived in that apartment and we just had a ball.
I was a waiter at Beefsteak Charlie's.
I was a popcorn concessionaire at Radio City musical where, you know, I would feed the camels with popcorn with
during the activity shows and walk onto the set of a walk
on, go to studio eight H there were tunnels that would lead
there and watch Saturday night live rehearsal.
I'd wander onto the, the set of NBC nightly news.
Um, and it was just like a great job.
But then Carrie got a job and actually acting,
which is what I was hoping to do,
acting in a movie and she was
going to have to go to London for months at a time.
I said, what movie?
She said, well, it's got a really stupid title,
but it's not a good stupid title, but, um,
and it's not a very good script.
You would hate it.
You would have turned it down.
Cause it's called star wars.
I said, is that a pass?
One word star war, W eight star and then wars.
And it's, you know, it, well, I said, well, who's in it?
Because Mark somebody who's yes, he's your age,
but again, he would have turned it down.
And Harrison Ford, he wouldn't know.
And I did know Harrison, because when he was a carpenter,
he built my aunt and uncle's deck in Malibu.
And I would share joints with him
and try to help him build the deck.
But I was too stoned to really be of any help.
So Han Solo would get blasted
and try to put a bookshelf together?
But he could do it.
I couldn't even, I didn't know the difference
between a measuring tape and a hammer.
And anyway, she goes off and would call me
while she's doing this movie in the middle. As she was getting up to work, I was dead asleep.
I go, how's it going? And she would just go on. I wear bagels on my head, I'm eating my ears. I'm drowned by a big monkey.
Little person in a trash can who follows up on them.
R2-D2.
We have ray guns that don't even have triggers.
This movie is going to be such a flop.
When she came back, there was a screening at the Zietveld.
And there had never been any test screenings or anything for this movie. But somehow
people seemed to know about this movie. And you know, science fiction people like came from other
planets to come to see this thing. And from the moment it started with that crawl, we
knew, you know, movies will never be the same. And you know, when I deal with in the book
too is that that point that happens in many friendships of people in this business where
one person just hits it so big time and I'm still a waiter at beefsteak Charlie's you know.
Were you guys buddy buddy or were you dating or what?
Oh no no no we were always platonic although you know.
Go ahead.
Never mind.
Continue.
There was an accidental.
Okay. It's an accidental... Okay. I call it a bad big accident.
It's more like it.
Yeah.
It was just a brief period.
She just needed some help in a particular area.
But you're a waiter.
And...
You're a waiter at Beast Steak, Charlie Charlie and she's blowing up globally.
The phenomenon.
And then, you know, when you see someone when that happens, suddenly the phones just never
stop ringing and the quality of friends become more and more famous. And I would come back from Beefsteak Charlie's
with wearing a little apron with my kid.
Beefsteak on you.
I go into my bedroom and there would be James Taylor,
who's breaking up with Carly Simon crying
and all these, the Eagles and all these people.
I'm taking out my quarters.
Jesus.
I'm taking out my quarters. Um.. Glenn Fry can give me a five if I give you a hundred quarters.
But it was, it was, you know, we had to adjust to that.
And then she did as Blues Brothers.
We won't talk about her, but you know, what a blast.
What a fun.
But then you had such a friendship that I'm assuming it didn't,
it changed, but it didn't really change.
She's still like, you were her muse, you were her buddy.
Absolutely. I mean, you know, I changed because I was so...
Bitter?
Bitter. A bitter, competitive, angry, ugly soul of an actor.
Yeah, an actor. An actor.
That's all of us.
Exactly.
And I only wish her ill will.
Well, also sometimes when you get famous like that,
you need some people that you just know casually
because you miss the normal, normal boring parts
that are just like fun to hang out with someone.
And I'm sure everyone is like a surfacey show,
busy friend after that.
They don't know what's going on.
You know, and I-
I'll tell you, if you know someone,
I'll just insert this,
you know someone before they're famous
and you're really human with them and nice to them
and actually do a favor for them or whatever.
And then they become really famous.
They never forget.
Like you knew Carrie when, so you were not late to the
lunch. I was not late to the lunch. And so, you know, we were, you know, we had the same DNA,
we had the same sense of humor, we had the, you know, you know, her life changed. I made a just
once I quite honestly, I, it took me garnering a certain amount of success of my own before I started not having those
feelings, not comparing myself, not- Of course.
... I could just relax and get out of my own head. But we picked up, she was always the same with me.
It was always on me. That kind of- And then, like, This was just sort of interesting because the way this person affected the culture.
Who's that girl? In 87. With Madonna.
With Madonna. And you could see the influence of her extrapolating out.
But this was her first movie and she was new and you were you done after hours.
You did it. So you were like the bankable one and you got they need an anchor with her.
You're the film actor. Yeah, I was a film actor. They wanted to have someone who acted with her.
But as far as fame, they did not need me on the marquee. I have never to this day seen anyone so famous.
Well, peak Madonna is hard to get.
It was unreal.
She had such grace and humor and everything.
But I mean, we had to re-loop
every exterior shot because of the helicopters that were hovering.
There was a Sean Penn then as well.
She was. She wasn't Sean.
Double whammy.
Did he ever beat you up?
Did he ever beat you up?
No, but I kept thinking. I would imagine that would happen.
It'll happen.
She is a real flirt.
No, I'm kidding.
I was open to possibility.
I beat him up on Saturday Night Live.
So we'll talk about that later.
Good, good.
In character.
Yeah, of course.
But there were those long lenses that I would see in my peripheral vision for months after the movie was shot.
Oh, really?
Everywhere you looked, there was a lens somewhere from some location and a
certain amount of like hysteria it didn't look like fun to be that that
famous. Was it hard was it harder to shoot? She seems cool I've seen a
round yeah yeah she seems like pretty light pretty fun even in the middle of
that it's probably just goofy but it's very hard movies are tough anyway I
think people understand like you're cramming lines,
you're trying to get things done, you're losing the light. Any distractions are
just so tough to deal with. You're missing a day.
Yeah and then we had you know, Mountain Lions that we had to deal with. In LA? No, no, no. On the set, the characters. Oh, okay.
They were called Patagonian felices, but they were big ass cougars. And there were five of them in
each in degree of temperament. So the cuddly one was number five. And you do do do do do do
you know, when he came on the set, but number five, they need,
if they wanted one to growl and look menacing and then all the Cougars were in between. And so if we
were with number five on the streets of New York or any of the Cougars, for that matter, there would
be snipers, a New York City cop snipers on all the rooftops and then nets to keep in case
the Cougar made a run for it.
And then one time they brought number one to the wedding scene and we all knew number
one.
We love number one.
It's so great.
And then number one's coming in and somebody goes, and the cougar is on a location in a house, takes his paw and cuts a sofa in half.
And we go, wrong cougar, wrong cougar.
Oh yeah, mixed up.
Was it the right numbers?
It was the wrong, somebody just licked my paw.
Yeah, I could see that happening. Plus
the cougar, they want to get an acting. They got to deal with this shit, you know? Absolutely. Yeah,
absolutely. I blind them. Did you, did you go through a phase? I'm just curious this transition
where you get famous for a moment and what happens is all of a sudden, um, girls like you,
let's put it that way. Yeah. In a different way.
It's sort of interesting. I'm not saying you act that on whatever, but it's sort of, well,
your first blush of fame was that after, um, the, uh,
Well, that was sort of after, after werewolf where I got like fan mail and also girls finding
out where I worked.
Beefsteak Charlie.
Showing up, but I moved on a little bit.
You threw that apron in their face.
It was weird when that movie came out.
I also produced movies.
I then had an office when that movie came out
on 57th Street with my production company.
And so girls would come to the production office
but there's a different kind of fan girl in horror movies
than there are if say I did French,
if I did Truffaut films, very different. So, you know, a lot of girls
with things with hoops in their noses and studs in their lips and, you know, half-shaked heads.
We've been to Comic-Con.
Yeah, you get the look.
That's right. Did people try to come to the set when you were Madonna or was there no set
visits? Yes. They didn't care back then, did they? You know, who came to our set was this
unbelievable scumbag. I think he's one of your presidents. Oh, not Trump.
You're shooting in front of his building.
Uh-huh.
And this man, he's got orangey long hair covering some sort of spot.
Dana's going to sound like him in one minute.
I have no idea who it could be.
So he comes down in front of his building and he just wedges his way, um, onto that and
brings his own photographer jab a picture.
There's a picture of me, Trump, Madonna, and Dan Aykroyd.
The same day.
Love it.
We're coming in. We're coming in, bringing in the cougars you want. I've got no fear of cougars and I can talk to a cougar.
I dated a couple cougars.
Anyway, there's 3,482,000 American citizens do Trump at this point.
I love it.
I was waiting for that.
You took two.
Anyway, so you early on, I mean, I don't know how you were informed by seeing Hollywood from
your perspective growing up and everything. You early on were producing, you ended up directing
Meg Ryan and Matthew Brodrick and-
Diane Lane.
...Diane Lane. So it seems to me that you saw the whole dance of hot, not hot, medium hot, they want you every day ago,
and you've worked consistently for four years, incredible.
So are you zen about show business at this point?
I mean, how has your attitude changed
toward it, good, bad, or indifferent?
Well, I mean, I've been through all the colors
you described, I've been through all the colors you described. I've been-
Me too. I'm experienced early success before I could truly appreciate it. I finally appreciate
it and my stock has dropped and I'm not there. And then, you know, I do something else
and I'd make a choice of like,
when I did have heat as an actor,
I then decided to produce a movie I wasn't even in.
Right.
You know, I'd be in a movie that was supposed to be
like the Madonna movie,
supposed to be a huge hit, turns out to be a flop.
All, and then I produce again.
Then I go, well, I'm going to become a director then.
And that goes great.
And they just, I've been writing it,
the ups and downs all the way through.
But when I was writing the book,
I actually had to like take my entire life, career, projectory through all its phases.
I came to the end like going,
all these things that I used to kick myself for,
I'm so glad they happened.
Each one was an experience I actually did learn from.
I can look back and even though I'm looking forward as well, but when
I did look back while writing the book, I was actually really pleased with how everything
turned out. I thought of not having a real game plan or maybe there was a plan afoot.
But I knew I was the kind of person who wasn't comfortable just being settling into one particular aspect of storytelling, of
just being an actor or just being a producer. So that sort of served me well in the long
run. It just didn't feel like a short run.
Yeah. And in recent times you did This Is Us, Uncle Nicky, you know, like intense drama
and funny at the same time. And so you kind of have the same time. So you're like you could play drama or you can be funny.
Yeah.
But it's interesting to write a memoir,
was it nerve-racking away when you started?
What's the discovery process?
The painful to write certain parts and other parts like,
man, that was an awesome time.
Or I guess you just have wisdom now or perspective. Is that what we all hope we get? I've always known that I had a lot of funny
stories that either happened to me or happened to family members that I grew up with that are, you
know, really outrageous and many very after hours and, you know, in my personal life. And so I would
always kind of keep a little log of like
I gotta remember that I gotta remember much like you guys do and you know yeah and bits and so I
thought I thought when I came to write a memoir which I always kind of thought in the back of my
head I eventually would I thought it would be a sort of a series of really funny anecdotes of David Sideris type
me talking one day and then when I and not have it be chronological have it be almost anecdotal,
but then I thought no that's kind of a cop-out just start at the beginning and then I realized
the beginning wasn't the beginning. And then I realized the beginning
wasn't the beginning of my life. It was the beginning of my grandparents and great grandparents.
So I started way back in how the Mexican revolution affected my mother's side and that
the Irish famine affected my father's side. And I just went chronologically. And with that came,
you know, we were talking about my father was very bullied as a child and, you know, his painful childhood memories.
And then my mother is being, being, um, growing up on a ranch on the border of
Mexico, um, with her father absent because during World War II and, you know,
kind of bringing them up, up until I was born and it just sort of turned into
an actual memoir. I call it a family memoir because it's not just about me it's you know the
geographies of everyone in my family. So it was it wasn't painful it was sometimes it was so exciting I'd be acting in something and I would when the camera would
be turning around I'd go back to my dressing room and I just knock off a paragraph. I could not
wait to get back to it. Because it was like I was bringing my family back alive. Only my brother is
the only person left out of my immediate family. And you know who I spoke to before I
wrote a word, I really wanted his blessing, which he gave me. And so it was like having my family
with me. It was more difficult to finish it than it was to write it. Um, cause I really loved the company of, of these people. I really,
um, I really admired all their struggles.
And I'd say I'd like to do it. I just think writing, I've only done a few things. When
president Bush one died in New York times, asked me to write an article. You know, I
did it with my wife. She's a great, she knows about grammar. She
went to Catholic school.
Got to have that.
And she's a great editor and a great bounce, but it's, it's, it's, it is, can be exhilarating
to write a sentence like in the extra I read was laugh out loud, funny when, um, Carrie
Fisher is asking you about your sex life or whatever, or your ADD. So that's kind of a
thrill, right?
When you're writing is rewriting all these cliches,
when you get a great paragraph, like that's it.
Or if you want poignancy, how do I end that thing?
Ah, yeah, I landed it.
So, and it's immersive, it's just you.
So did you run it by your wife or do you have a confidant
or David Duchovny asked to read it or?
I gave it to David pretty early on.
Oh, okay.
And, you know, I had a wonderful editor at Penguin who published the book,
a guy named John Burnham Schwartz, who was a novelist that I, by coincidence,
I'd read his novels before. I didn't even know he was an editor.
Um, but I liked his writing so much.
Uh, and I learned a great deal from him, but I did, I, I gave early copies.
Um, you know, a great friend of Carrie's is Beverly D'Angelo and ours and sweetheart.
And so I gave her, she's a hilarious person.
And I gave her like the Carrie chapters
to make sure I got it right.
And, you know, I mean, that was one of the most fun parts
because I always knew the book would be dealing
with the tragedy.
We, you know, the trial and a lot of really stuff coming up
but I also knew it would be funny.
And especially by a channel Carrie and Beverly said, God, man, you just got her.
It was like she was there in the room with you.
So that gave her confidence, you know?
Speaking of funny stuff, just, we don't have the all day,
but we'd love to, this was done by so fast.
It's just your, after hours, it's a big movie, Martin Scorsese.
You can talk to that if you want, because that seems he'd already done Raging Bull,
which is, you know, and then you're on SNL. You know, it's kind of a thing in Hollywood
in those days. I was there, I arrived six months later, I think. You were in March, I arrived in, I premiered in October.
So I don't know, just, it must have been,
I mean, your monologue was so quirky.
I didn't ever say anything quite like it, where,
because I was thinking you're playing it very real.
I'm really excited to be here.
Just so people, it's on YouTube.
And then it's clear you're nervous.
You're looking a little sweaty,
you're starting to itch your head and clumps of hair come out.
It's just really building.
You go, is it hot in here?
Then you're drenched in sweat.
That's quirky enough. I thought, okay,
that's a great monologue.
Then they bring out a surfboard and you play
Wipeout with one hand with such a non sequitur.
Completely.
How did that happen?
Well, you know, as they know, as you know, from the,
when you have the first time that the cast meets the host,
you know, any special activities
that you were really good at,
you do accents and all that.
I said, well, I know how to play Wipeout one handed.
I just threw that out and then.
Throwing the monologue.
That's a drum solo from the 1960s.
Exactly.
And so I, but I would also talk to Lauren about my monologue, my opening monologue.
I was kind of nervous about it.
He goes, well, you know, all they guess, all they do is talk about their opening monologue.
Well, that's the most important part of the show.
It's just an intro.
We don't care.
Take the pressure off.
We don't care.
And then, he goes, every guest,
I'm so, you know, like just so tired of it all.
He's had it, yeah.
From all these hosts.
He had it back then.
Yeah, exactly. He's got another 50 years ago.
He was burnt out 50 years ago.
I don't know, somehow that evolved into
just being the most nervous guest in the history of SNL.
They put things in my hair that were wet.
There's a guy off-camera like a watering can pushing.
It's always good to get soaking wet right before you're doing a whole night of sketches.
Well, that's what's so fun about it is you must know this,
I've seen it happen to me in times.
All you guys wear the dress is disastrous.
Yeah.
Yes.
And you go, my God, how is this ever gonna work?
You don't wanna go back out.
And just tap out.
Just like, let's just disappear.
And then for some reason it all comes together.
Wait, I have a big question for you.
Were you there?
We talked to Lovitz yesterday.
Lovitz told me you were in this sketch with Damon Wayans
where he got fired.
So is that true?
That's pretty-
It's totally true.
We were doing like a scar face kind of a thing
and I was doing like a Pacino scar face thing
and we did the dress and he's a cop interrogating me and you know
where's the where the drugs kept where's you know when's the shipment coming in or whatever
it was and suddenly and once we're shooting it's where the drugs when's the shipping coming
in and there's a whole lisp involved.
That's on the air show, right? Live?
Yeah. I guess I didn't get the rewrite on that.
There's such chaos between Dresden Air.
You're like, they definitely forgot to tell me.
They definitely forgot that.
Or I didn't notice. I don't know.
Apparently, soon as he got in the wings,
it was like, go know, go home.
Oh, well, I wasn't privy to it.
I didn't know.
I didn't actually know till I read it in the book.
I thought you fired him.
No, God no.
Damon Wayans is a brilliant comedian.
Yeah, he went on and did fine.
Yeah, and living color.
He probably thought, yeah,
I should go do a living color. He proved himself a yeah, I should go do a living color.
He proved himself a brilliant, just so we get that out.
I'm just curious, because I was possessed and still am possessed by Al Pacino's performance
in Scarface, literally.
How did you do that?
Did you look at tape or was it sus?
I totally looked at tape and I just did just, I was really loud, just like him.
Open the yelling part, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
What are you like a man, they tell you what I go?
I fucking kill you, I kill you.
You know.
Yeah, he was loud sometimes, Dan,
in just normal scenes, I think I remember.
He just goes a little louder over Stephen Bauer,
who was kind of seems quieter.
It's an operatic performance. I guess people call that, but I think I've heard it's his favorite
film. By the way, I'm always curious with film actors like, and you as a kid or now or then,
like what are the people who kind of you looked up to or just, you know. Oh, I can tell you in a second.
It's always been from the moment I saw the graduate,
which I was too young to see,
but somehow got on the theater and saw it.
I looked at that guy,
I looked at that guy, Justin Hoffman, and I went.
I'd never seen an actor like that in a movie and also
be so nervous and so funny and so
all over the place.
I thought, and then I found out he grew up blocks from me in LA and moved to New York
to be an actor.
Boom, that's what I'm going to do.
And when I, you know, when you grow up in LA, uh,
Is that Brentwood? Yeah, separate would drivers license is the most
important day of your life. And that happens on your birthday and your 16th birthday.
And so on my 16th birthday, I wake up and I got to go to the DMV to get my license and there's nobody
home, not one adult. My, my mother's gone or whatever. So I get in the car and my family's station wagon, I drive myself to the DMV and the instructor goes, guys give me a test, go, is your chaperone here?
Oh, she's in the bathroom. All right, fine, go. I finished the test, I pass. I need your chaperone
to sign this. I go, I don't know where she is. Never mind. I get in the car, greatest day of my life.
I'm so excited. I'm leaving Montana street outside the DMV in Santa Monica. And I
red light and a car comes sticks and just almost fashion into me. And I, the driver is screaming
at me, calling me a motherfucker. I'm looking at the veins in his neck and my eyes travel up and it's Dustin Hoffman.
Oh my God.
No.
And I just smile.
I'm going, oh my, kids what the fuck are you doing?
Why are you killing us?
Wow.
And I went, I'm moving to New York.
I can't wait.
Wow.
Love it.
Love Dustin.
He was a major. He was amazing.
I watched that movie six weeks ago.
My wife and I, we watched certain movies every few years.
And that one is so brilliant.
I think I've seen that movie more than any other movie ever.
Nothing.
No, Mike Nichols and Dustin.
No one captures the way you feel about your parents
when you're in your 20s, early 20s,
and they seem like bobbling, drunken fools.
Absolutely.
It's so amazing.
All right, well, Griffin, thank you so much.
The book is, I'll do Larry King here.
The book is The Friday Afternoon Club.
It comes out June 11th.
And just, if you've listened to this podcast, I'm hoping
you will get excited to go read this book because you're a great storyteller verbally.
Did you do the audio on tape?
I did. I did. It was kind of amazing to read your entire life in four days. I'm going to try to get the audio book and start walking and go keep walking until you finish.
You will look up to me in San Francisco.
Anyway, such a pleasure to meet you.
Good luck to you.
I love you guys. You guys are great. I'm so honored and thrilled you had me on.
This has been a presentation of Odyssey.
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All this stuff, smash that button, whatever it is, wherever you get your podcasts.
Fly on the Wall is executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Jenna Weiss Berman
of Odyssey, Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment and Heather Santoro.
The show's lead producer is Greg Holtzman.