Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - Keegan-Michael Key and Elle Key

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

The History of Sketch Comedy, Key & Peele, and hosting SNL with Keegan-Michael Key and Elle Key. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's amazing what real food can do. Get 50% off your first order at the farmersdog.com slash no magic 50. So Keegan Michael Key this week with his wife Elle Key. They both done a lot in this business week called Show. Keegan is very fun. Fun guy to talk to. Funny guy to listen to. I see him a lot of clips out there.

He's on so many things, commercials. And he and his wife put together a comedy book about sketches, the history of sketch comedy. Yes. And so we deep dive into that. It was very, very interesting. And Kiegen and Elle have a very close creative relationship. It's a nice thing to see.

And he's in Schmickardun. Schmickardun is still out there. Yeah, and I see him on so many things and some football commercials now, but he's always working, always he's very into character and sketches and in this book, he dresses like characters in the past. I think Charlie Chappen all the way up.

I think Wayne's world, you know. Yeah. He analyzed your, by by sketch, the flight of ten sketch. Oh, did he? Oh yeah. He did, yeah, we won't tell you what he said. Not much of it. It wasn't, I think.

Is an interesting idea of a book to analyze the history of sketch comedy. Sketch comedy doesn't get awards. No one thinks about sketch comedy as an artistic endeavor. You know, the first iteration of the boba sketch that didn't work as well was that everyone was getting on the plane and we were like, hello, hello.

It just wasn't as funny. I remember when Lord Michael said it was just a word thing. It didn't, I don't think we should really be calling it a skit. He hates the word skit. Yeah, it's a skit. It's a sketch. Yeah, for some reason. Not a skit.

Have you ever seen people that say, you know, this guy's stick is that he acts with a lot of crazy characters like you mean stick. I don't even know what stick means, but I know it's not stick. Yeah. Like a stick. Anyway, anyway, let's listen. We had a lot of fun with them as we always do. lots of laughs enjoy the episode. Thanks for listening fans Fans I don't know I suppose people are like that's a strong word We know we started wait what oh, we've been on for 20 minutes We sort of just roll into it, but we take out the fat and it winds up being about six minutes.

We don't take anything out, but you can call us right after this and edit anything you want. So say anything you want, and then we will take, we will cut that fucking thing out, man. You can- Like syllables and a name. Yeah, so I met you two as a couple at the Oscars, right?

Yes with Mike with Mr. Meyer with Mike buyers. Yeah, that was exciting. Yeah, I actually I texted this morning And I let him know that this is what we were doing today and He just he just a Dana is a doll Dana is brilliant Dana, Dana, Dana. By the way, do you know that you are? Yeah, I know Dana. I know she corrects them. She's like, no, he keeps company. No, I'm I'm I'm protesting. And also, oh, nice, you know, wait for the next text. It'll be all about me. Just give it a second. Yeah, door you both. I'll text them now. Do you know, Dena, that you are on the cover of our book?

Yes, I saw it and I called, I'm not a big lawsuit guy. I looked at it. I checked it. I am. And you know what? It's my gift to you. I looked at him. I checked him. And you know what, it's my gift to you. Yeah, I know. I even told him this morning, I said, do you know this? And he said, oh, yeah, I love it.

That is the most insanely flattering. So people who just joined us were live. El and Keegan wrote a book about the history of sketch comedy and have a podcast. And on the cover of it, Keegan is doing all these, your dresses, all these famous archetypal character through the history. And there you are with Garth. So I was absolutely flattered though. Absolutely.

I would. We did actually call Mike for, we called Mike for permission. We didn't call you. Sorry, but we did call Mike and I said, I wanna do Wayne or Garth from Wayne's World because it's so iconic. And he said, oh, you should definitely do Dana, do Dana. Oh, now that is silly because I always knew,

no matter what, it's called Wayne's World. You know, it's not Garth's World. I'm the guy next to the guy, you know, so but that's very generous We're you know when you get older you get wisdom you put your weapons down you get very nostalgic you tear up a lot You know you'll see you're too young you poop your pants. Well, there's a bunch of images I can send to you later that ended up not getting used She's showing us on her phone. Garth, what's going on?

It's like funny. Look, Garth is funny, Dana. That's a good look. Garth does have that funny. There is something always going on with the mouth. There's always that, you know, there's that, right, we, that's totally like that, that like curled lip thing, which is always

what was the money of the character to me. And then dropping the rhythm, you're like, yeah, I had a good time. So he doesn't quite say time, you know? Yeah, that is a good time. Time. And then all his tension is in his jaw. I'm not really a method actor,

but yeah, everything is there. Everything's there. You guys are, I mean, looking at your resume, everything you've done. And now the history of sketch comedy, what gave you the reason to write that? I mean, it's very interesting. I was listening to the audible one last night. And it's really fun and interesting as you go along and get into Vodville and stuff and all, all how it all came together. I don't know. Do you want to start there? We can go anywhere.

Yeah, start there. Let's start there. So a couple of years ago, I, someone had asked Keegan about writing a book, would you ever consider writing a book? And I, Keegan and I had this conversation. He's like, I got it. You know, we know it's not easy to write a book. It's a whole process. And I was like, well, he married, he married a writer, director. So I was like, well, I'll help write the book. And he's like, I'm not really interested in writing a book.

So I just said, well, you know what? I'm going to just interview you for the next seven years and collect stories and information. And I wrote and directed for a sketch comedy show in college. And I worked the top Broadway and I've been doing things for years and when we got together I started writing for him and I said you know I really think there's a fun way of you being kind of the the tour guide or like the host and all of these things and you're so accessible and and he's so easy to talk to and communicate with. I just thought it would be really fun.

She's that's so cool coming from a wife. It really is. Isn't that the girl like a girlfriend? That'd be like a girlfriend, but a wife going, well, he's pretty cool. No, it's very, you read classic sketches. You do characters. The audible book is incredibly entertaining. I have a question right now, though.

As you started this journey, you're interviewing your husband. Both of you, did you kind of, as you went along, more themes came up and more like this was the archetypal event. He kind of stayed out of it, I feel like. Well, I was doing things like, when did you hear about Second City? When's the first time you heard about Second City? And then he said, actually, he was reading an autobiography of John Balushi by Bob Woodward. And I was like, that's an interesting story. So I was like, okay, and this is going to be in a chapter somewhere, is how do you get into talking about Second City or schools of comedy?

And then I asked him when the first time he heard his father laugh was, and it was to happen to be watching Eddie Murphy on Saturday Night Live. And that's the first thing. Like, he has all these good answers. So I know. So I was like, this thing, the rights itself, basically. So then that podcast that you, the, the audible series came about because when COVID started, I pitched my team and agents this idea of, I'm going to write this book on

sketch comedy and I'm writing it as a kind of a love letter to Keegan and my love of comedy. And they said, you know, would you consider doing a podcast? And I said, sure. And then I pitched audible this idea that if Keegan, Michael Key, was teaching an NYU course on sketch comedy and it was a 10-part class, it would be a very, very crowded class. And it would be a lot of fun. And yeah, it's funny. And where would it go? And then I pitched the idea for those of you don't know, there are no clips used in the entire podcast. There's not one audio. It's a tour to force, I might

say. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all key. It's all... It's all... Every voice of every character in every sketch. And I wanted to continue that with the book, which is why when I designed the cover, I pitched audible this idea of what if instead of the key in performing, what if we dress key in up.

And as a matter of fact, Lou Zakarian helped me with all the hair and makeup, who's on Saturday and night live, does the hair and makeup who was on Saturday night live does the hair and makeup. And then the original idea for the book cover was, you know, the evolution of man, like the chroma, the classic. So when you open the book, the first thing you see is all those characters. I'm still in there. My god damn. Who's ahead of me? What the fuck? Oh my god, who's ahead of me? What the fuck? I'm showing start again. I should be a and I don't have it. I want to I love I'm biased. It's like you're only it's it is substitute. The substitute teacher is ahead. It's just only because the time well it's that I did look up that 200 and 213 million views on YouTube, another tour de force as the substitute teacher on the key and peel show.

So that was classy. What I loved about the book, when you got into naming, okay, who was the Linchpin for television? How did people adapt from Vodville to Radio? I was into all that section, which I found fascinating, and how Milton Burle was kind

of the first TV sketch comedy superstar. That was, I liked all that stuff. It was really cool. I really liked the variety TV. I don't know how far he's gone into variety TV. That's next. I was a huge Donnie and Marie Fan. Oh yeah.

And then we started doing this deep dive of every single person we could find who was on a variety TV. Man, it was nuts. If you think about the fact that Howard Cosell had a variety show called the Howard Cosell show. And then it was Saturday Night Live, right? As well.

I think it was. Oh, you're right. It was called Saturday Night Live. That's great. That's great. And Lauren said, he's not using it anymore. I think Saturday Live was called Saturday Night for a while. Or Saturday Night with Howard Coasell. Everyone had every musician, Glenn Campbell. I mean, yeah, it's infinite, right? Everybody had one. Everybody had one. It was amazing.

Right. Yeah. And then sometimes they're on ice skates, right? Sometimes Donnie Brayden. Oh, yeah. It was, you know, when I was watching those, I, of course, I loved them growing up and Captain and Taneel. It seems like you have one hit song. You get 13 episodes of a variety show. Anything, like they're everyone they just threw them out there.

Johnny Cash had one. The Brady Bunch. The Brady Bunch had a right. That's right. With David Letterman and Michael Keaton. Yeah, where in the sketch? Very short lived. Oh, really?

Yeah. Yeah, I didn't know that. I've been on a lot of short lived stuff, but we can go into that later. Short lived in a very polite way of saying it lived, but shortly wasn't a smash. So, you put all this together. So you had to apply interviewing him and then kind of get this narrative and look up Milton Burle and kind of expand. Yeah, and then he would help me and then we'd figure out. It was a little bit of a challenge because the podcasts and the book are different. There's a lot of clips from the podcasts that are kind of through line. But I also, for the book, was very

fortunate enough that people like the brilliant David Spade gave me a few minutes of their time. Yeah. They are little. What did he say? Was it wise and funny? Oh, yeah. I say anything good. Yes, of course. of course you did. Nothing off the top for head, but he did say a lot of interesting things. So basically the so Chronicles, the publisher, and they asked, they said, do you think you can get a couple quotes from some people in sketch comedy? And because of all of the Goodwill and all of the people King and I have met over the years, I ended up doing these little kind of many interviews with about 35 people.

Yeah, give a list, it's unbelievable. Yeah, from Chris Rock, my, Myers, David of course, and then Caliburnet, who I did. Did you reach out to me and I blew off? I don't remember being asked, but I would have done it. Stonewall. No one can get near day in this fortune. I will never, even though I'm the second in command

on the cover. Long for the cover. I think it's because I only met you once, and I think other than that, it's all right. Maybe I had a little bit more. But now, right now, live, because we're going live globally today, not really. What would you have asked me?

We can just fill it in for a minute. So basically, what I did is try to figure out, so there's kind of broken down to 10 different sections, 10 chapters, and figure out what would make sense. So we did talk to Kevin Neillin, and there are a bunch of Julia Louis-Dreyfus. So there are some people that talk, like Kevin Neillin talks about Lauren Michaels. He also does talk a little bit about you are. I mean you're in a little bit. He talks a little bit about Hansen Fronze. He talks about Hansen Fronze. Hansen Fronze, that was 100% me and Kevin. We realized that. Hansen Fronze is in the book. So I probably would try to figure out what what subject in the book and I would tell you what they are that you had some kind of relationship to so for example

You said you love the stuff about early the early television. Yeah Yeah, so well then I would ask you about something I have to do the early television and then made a little side bar in that chapter On your thoughts you're so much. I'm you know on every level. I'm fascinated by the history of comedy I am fascinated by how the hell and the early 60s with Bob Newhart and Bill Cosby and others, their comedy albums were that crackling because I'd sit in the dark with vinyl and I've never heard sound like that. That present, I was told they would, and they'd be in little tiny clubs like the Purple Indian and put one mic overhead or some reason they are so lively.

That fascinates me. Just the sound of it. But I have kind of a question and or observation because I have grumpy old men in my life like music ain't no good anymore. And I go, doesn't the music just reflect what the culture is doing at the time? And so with the last 50 years of comedy, obviously it's gotten looser or whatever. What is today's sketch comedy telling us about

where we are as a culture? You have 30 seconds. Ooh. Ha ha ha. That's a good one, Dave. I had nothing, I was spitballing. I'm talking to my friends. No, that was my next question.

He and Peele as an observer and a fan. He and peel certainly came out of having an African-American president came out of what was going on in the culture, having to mix race, post. So maybe I think it's true. I don't, I don't think, I don't think we would have had a show if Obama had become the president. And it's one of those interesting things where you look at his demographic and you look at our demographic.

And it's exactly the same, coming from single parent homes, coming from interracial relationships. But I think also the other thing about K&P is there's something very cinematic about the show that a lot of the sketches tell stories. They're not like we don't, we never did any game show sketches, which is one of my favorite things ever on Saturday Night Live from game show sketches, but you don't see them in key and peel,

which is interesting. You see more storytelling in the sketches and also doing things very often that And also doing things very often that would be able to happen in real life. And the reason I think that, Dana, is because so many people get their comedy and derive their comedy nowadays from YouTube, like watching a real YouTube video of a person really last night. What did you show me? Last night you were showing me, oh, the fireworks thing. Yeah. Yeah. Like a video where somebody said, I have some fireworks and the fireworks went awry across someone's front yard. In the front yard. Yeah. Goes under the car. Goes under the car. Right. Exactly. And blows up like the car. And blows up for you. But it keeps hiding. Yeah. It keeps hiding. Yeah. And it was actually like a well done sketch because it was got bigger. And the people started pulling their kids away.

Right, right, exactly. And it felt like you almost, not that you have to, but very often I think people are influenced by that. And they start writing sketches like that. So they don't, they don't do the high concept sketches as much as they do in life sketches. But that is kind of a choice, I think, because Kegan and I write together.

And Kiggin was very specific on Kiggin Peel about you go from a five, like, and would you talk about it in the book and the podcast? You go from kind of a, you started a five and you go to a 12 to an 18 to 27, then 110, like the I said, bitch sketch, you know, it keeps heightening and heightening. Oh, I said I loved about KMP,

that the beginning was so real. And you had told me about your guy's technique. And you know, Sarah and I live had its lane. And so when you came out, that show came out, it was something new. You know, it was very filmic and played very serious. And then just go ahead, finish your thought, Elle. It's just, it's like a boiling of frog,? It's like yeah even the teacher won. It just I was

even sure where it's going and then it starts you're getting angry and it just gets crazy. Crazy. You know I thought was a clever one was the auction because I don't see what that's going. It's one of my favorite. You're like it's fucking hilarious and it's hilarious and it's over and so you don't start getting tired you don't start going all right. Right fucking hilarious. And it's hilarious, and it's over. And so you don't start getting tired, you don't start going out, right? Right, right, yeah. And then we're just done.

We're just done. Yeah, it's like good, good joke, good joke over. But part of the reason why the, I mean, how do you make a slave auction, something so serious and all of make it funny? But it's not about the auction. It's about people's egos getting hurt. Yeah, yeah, that's the fun part about it.

That's the actual theme of the sketch. For people who haven't seen it, basically, that Keegan and Jordan are two out of three spots on a slave auction, and the first person who comes up, next to them keeps getting bit on and they never get bit on. And at first they're like, oh, you can't, I mean, you can't, you know.

It's like, you know, good. I'm glad he got sold because I don't wanna be owned by another human being, you know what I mean? I ain't trying to get owned up in here. You know, and then every time a guy comes on the lock and gets sold, we're just like, okay, now that's interesting. Why are we not getting physically big in that?

I mean, what's going on? Lot, hey, they're not buying anybody on Lot B or C. I feel like I'm taller than other gentlemen. I feel like a more stamina than that gentleman. Maybe they can't see us from their angle. Yeah, right exactly. It's always these weird excuses of like why they're not getting but there was a shrimpy guy comes on and you're like,

now, okay, now it's too much. This is a trick. Right, and they even know what they're looking for. for it like yeah, I know that was very funny. You are articulating and the way you two played it kind of just casual dudes talking, you know, it was just against the whole darkness of the situation. But each back and forth day and like the last minute is like joke. He does a joke like on top of each other. Yeah, but each one is a quality, funny thing to say, and then it was over. I was like, oh, that was great. My biggest flaw is I'm a perfectionist.

Right, right. Exactly, right, right. I know magic. When they got on the boat, I put up no fun. So there's a lot of guys like, just on. They were like, I was like, right, I didn't bump in any one. I jumped right on.

It's like, it's so funny, so funny, so good. So those are like, you could watch those, you know, I'm sorry to interrupt, but I'm gonna do a 40 minute question, so stay close. So, and then you'll have 12 seconds at the end to answer. But when I wouldn't see as much key in peel when it's out, maybe at a jealousy, but you know, I would see it here and there,

and then with the Tiktok and an Instagram I start seeing it and then when I watch a few now more come up and so it's a whole probably another world of fans That is great. Yeah, it's gotta be it's it's insane It's incredible because now we see we'll be walking down the street and there'll be like a 15 year old And a 15 year old is like oh oh my God, I love you. You're a block. Hey, you're a block. Yeah, you're a block and I go, wait a minute, you're 15.

I'm trying to do the math in my head. Yeah. Wait a minute, you were four when our show came out. Or even see you, when you talk about it a little bit because someone's like, God, I love your YouTube show. And King is like, what? Oh, yeah. Oh, right.

Catches from 10 years ago that are now on YouTube. Better now on YouTube and on TikTok. They think those sketches are new sketches. What was it originally? Was it Comedy Central? It was on Comedy Central. Yeah, it was on Comedy Central when we started. God, they don't do that kind of stuff anymore

that doesn't seem like. It's YouTube is the placement. I mean, because Comedy Central, you're inside Comedy Central. Now you're potentially have five billion people digitally everywhere. And your sketches were by and large evergreen, right? Because Comedy Central, you're inside Comedy Central. Now you're potentially have five billion people digitally. You're everywhere. And your sketches were by and large evergreen, right?

I mean, not talking. Yeah, by and large every day. Because the writing process took so long, we couldn't do, we couldn't do topical stuff, which worked out to our advantage. Yeah. Yeah. One show on TV during it live, having topical,

I think is enough. It's not easy. You're right, you're right. Well, also shooting, filming, yeah, one one show on TV during it live having topical. I think it's enough. It's not easy. You're right. You're right It's well also shooting filming editing and then coming out with a released date You know, it's like too hard to figure out like what's going on the news that week? It wouldn't even make sense I love the excessive celebration. Can I talk about that one the football one? Sure Sure, that probably wound down as hard as I'd seen anything wound down starting out with just people. I guess it started with the idea that you can get penalized for celebrating too much. If you touch, get a touchdown. If the, if the ref says that's too much and you take it to such absurd lengths and build it, I do want

to talk about that was a huge one for you, right? I mean, that was a huge one. In fact, it was also because it got emulated by actual football players. Oh, they actually did some of the moves. Yeah, actual football players in real life would do the move like that. Yeah, they get fine for it. Yeah, and they would get fine. Yeah. And so I think that part of what it was of what it was is that once again it goes back to that theory of starting as real as possible, starting at that three or that five and just build it. And that one doesn't go to 600 million or anything like that. That one just goes to like 48, but it kind of exists real enough that it could. It's like you could see a player and their ego doing that in real life. And it really, it really, it really was, it was so much fun. And

we did, we did actually, I did at the Pro Bowl a few years ago, we did a video that L directed and created that was really funny. The NFL, we were both the ball fans. The NFL, we've been doing a bunch of things. And I was a head writer for the NFL honors that Keegan hosts last year and wrote a musical silly number for him with singing in the audience with Gronk and Roger Gadell. So at the Pro Bowl, they asked us if we

would do something with touchdown celebrations. And they'd asked if we can make up a character that's like a touchdown celebration coach. So I pitched Keegan and Roger and the NFL this idea that his name would be Jim Light Brown after Jim Brown. That's funny. Yeah.

So they would go with Jim Light Brown. But. Oh, he would do it. They wouldn't do it. They wouldn't. Seems like sort of in the middle, you could get away with that, man. So I happened to be born in the Bronx, so I was like, okay, what about Boogie Down Brown? So we came over this character Boogie Down Brown and we did a couple of videos and they're online, they're easy to find, where Keegan is teaching very seriously,

very heartfelt teaching players, the most important part of a football game, which is the celebration after the touchdown. And we did a bit with Detroit Lions with Matt Stafford when he was, was a quarterback over there and a bunch of people with the Lions. And so I had to come up with a bunch of touchdown celebrations that were teaching them along the way. And it was around Christmas time. So I actually taught five or six of the Detroit lines how to do a Rockets kick line. You know, like, you never look at the video. And that weekend they sported touchdown and

did a Rockets. Oh, it's fine. Wow. At a trial. Check it out. Check it out. It's why it's so fun. It's fun that there are a couple of those sketches that actually were influenced, not influenced, that's the word I'm looking for. They morphed into real life.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. People are called a, I mean, I was saying we're at a Yankee game and Aaron judge It would be like a a Ron everyone loves that the fact that they are now a Ron if especially the toe keegan their story My name is Blake and It's like I can guess I Take well and now and we don't call her Jacqueline anymore. We just You know, I'm just saying.

I knock around with some of the things that I'm not saying. I'm not saying I'm not saying I'm bad, I'm just saying. I knock around with some of the things that I'm not saying. I'm not saying I'm bad, I'm just saying. I knock around with some of the things that I'm not saying. I knock around with some of the things that I'm not saying. I knock around with some of the things that I'm not saying. I knock around kind of, you know, I'm an amateur musician. I'm not saying I'm great.

I'm not saying I'm bad. I'm just saying I knock around with some things. I'm my bang on a drum. I might tinkle the ivory. I also do a lot of acoustic guitar and I have an electric guitar. And so I really am a fan of Tom Morello from Rage Against the Machine. I think he also played with Springsteen. Good dude. He's an amazing

guitar player. I mean crazy, but I'm learning little things on there and it's making me being an electric guitar player better and more fun. So that's that's what you get. You're just it's a perfect video. They're bite size. You look, you can pause it, go over it again. He's showing you all kinds of stuff. So, and that is his class could be for advanced guitar players who want to go to the 10 level that he's at. So, I like it. Of course, this fall learned from the best

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You, Esther Purrell's crisis situation. I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to visit that class. I wanna know what's going on, cause there usually is a hostage crisis where I live and it'd be good for me to not negotiate. Boost your confidence, fine, practice, I'll take away. You can apply to your life and it work. And if you own a business or a team leader, use

masterclass to empower and create future ready employees and leaders. And right now our listeners will get an additional 15% off annual memberships at masterclass.com slash fly. Get 15% off right now at masterclass.com slash fly. Could you relate to this? I kind of, I hard to articulate, but sometimes I think the most absurd sketches have five questions.

You know, like, whoo, interesting. Why is this guy a substitute teacher? Wouldn't you have been fired the first day? Why can't he articulate the names? Why are the students reacting that way? They're not just leaving. There's three. But when you get to five, it's sort of like

that's maximum absurdity, it seems to me. Like church lay, why does she have that, why is that person in drag or not? Who is this person? Why does she go on the show and torture people? What does she think to gain from the show? Who are followers? What does she do after the show and torture people? What does she think to gain from the show? Who are followers? What does she do after the show?

I know, it's just kind of that subject. You have to have the wrong answer to everyone of the questions and then it's a sketch. You're like, right. Well, we can't prove all these, so it's a sketch. It's a sketch. Listen, Barbara. Listen, Barbara, it's Barbara.

I said Barbara. You know, it's just like, who is that guy? Does he know he's insane? Right, right. I don't. You're pissed. You get it. But can I ask you about like, mad TV was sort of its own lane.

I don't know if it's still on. It was on for a long time. You were on it for five years. And it seems like there's the SNL crew. And then there was the Mad TV crew, and just learning that you were the only former Mad TV, which kind of surprised me, player to host SNL. So do you think there's a, is it a Coke and Pepsi?

It is a Yin and Yang. What is the sensibility of Mad TV versus SNL, or the aesthetic? There was, I think you said- Is that a Lauren question? That might be a Lauren question. That might be a Lauren question. Spell aesthetic first.

I wonder see if you could do it. It starts with a name. It starts with a name. It starts with a name. Yeah. It's interesting. I think the biggest difference was there was a really unapologetic

naughtiness about mad TV. That I think it was almost like, yeah. It was very body and raunchy. And I think because it was flying under the radar a bit more, there was that sense of that, we're really, we're really are gonna push the envelope as much as we underdoggy. Yeah, it was very underdoggy and very very we can do whatever we want and rough around the

edges. And there was this sense of also, like, you know, we would get to do those 10 to 1 sketches in earlier in the show. Right. So for those people who are listening, like, you guys can help me with this, you guys know, a 10 to 1 sketch is a sketch on Saturday and at live that would happen 10 minutes before 1 a.m. or 5 minutes before 1 a.m. which will be one of the experimental sketches or experimental videos or really super absurdist sketches.

Yeah, or sketches that got very few very few laughs during the dress show as well during the dress during the during the dress. Yeah, but they do like that. But they're sometimes the best, you know, yeah, the best. Yeah, right. Exactly. And I think usually comedians and sketch performers love those sketches, like adore those sketches. Yeah. And we used to get to do that. We used to fight a lot with our executive producers on MadTV, but they would often let us do those sketches smack dab in the middle of the show. You know, you always say those credentials sketches for the beginning, but they would let let us do those sketches, smack dab in the middle of the show. You know, you always say those credentials sketches for the beginning, but they would let us do that.

And so that was to me the biggest, that was the biggest kind of difference between the two shows is how body it was. And also that they were pushing, pushing kind of an ethnic envelope too, because there were, at one point in time, there were four of us, there were four African Americans on the show

at the same time. And that was something that you weren't seeing as much. I don't think that happened on SNL. No, not for it once. Well, we also had in living color. I think, Dana, probably that was more when you were on when that was pretty huge. Oh, yeah. And it was trickling into us, because Chris Rock, when he left, went to in living color. And, but it was like the final year. It was sort of had a Tadeh, it was winding down, but man, they were doing, it was that, they were blew up so big, doing so much crazy shit. I think we were jealous on this,

and I was like, I wonder if we could get away with that. But we really, it wouldn't have been our brand right then and there. It was like, it would have been copying. Cause they blew up. And then you've got that. Then you, Mad TV was always bubbling under with a good sketch here and there you'd hear about.

And then they went up against SNL, I think, on Saturday. Was that for a long time or? Yeah, it was mostly the time. So we would, you guys would start at, we'd started 11 and then, all programming at 11.30 is like, you never wanted your sketch to be on it. 11.30 because SNL was about to come on. Oh, that might switch. Yeah. And people would switch over.

But you guys weren't live, right? Were you pre taped or you weren't live? Yeah. You were not live. No, no, no, no, we were taped. Because my thing about Essen I'd like your opinion on this is that it maybe accidentally went in, became a reality show that people love and that you got a football player or an actor trying to do live sketch comedy. That's, because for me sometimes, if SNL has a bad show, it's still fascinating if the host is awkward and reading off the card.

So there's, it's a bit of a train wreck, it's a high wire rack. So that element is always there, but why, you guys just wrote the book and the history of sketch comedy. Why do you think it's lasted a half century? You don't have to, David. No, they're thinking. All thinking.

I think that's... I think that's... I think one element is that. And second is that Lauren Michaels, he was not there for a few years, but he's resisted changing the iconic brand. Because there were years, the Saturday life dead, pre-taped for an hour, mad TVs where it's at, changed the theme, a lot of pressure.

And we've interviewed all these cast members. And David and I are like, we're there. Everything is exactly the same as far as how it's done, eight, eight. Maybe that's part of it. I don't know. I think part eight. Maybe that's part of it. I don't know. I think part of it is the sporting event of it. I think we're saying about that. There's some there's chaos of it. You're, you know, in being backstage watching Keaton get ready for it was pretty fascinating. Like you are, you are about to go on. It's like a Broadway show. You have to go

on. Whatever happens happens and there's nothing else like it. And when a sketch dies, at least on the East Coast, it dies on television, which is interesting. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think what you just said, Elle is a great way of putting it, sporting events, like it's a lie of the pension. You want to watch it live, right?

Exactly, yeah. And it's rock and roll. You get, yeah, how did you like so there you are live on SNL? And so it's kind of rock and roll energy. It's just a different energy than really cool films you were making on K&P. So how did you how did it how did you find it? Well, having been on second having at the second city for six years. So you've done it. Yeah. So I had to remind myself, remember, you've done this before.

You've done this before. You did this very straight years. And then the other thing I had to remember to do was just play to the audience in the room. Don't let anybody, I tried to avoid anybody talking to me about, hey, you're on TV, you're live in front of millions of people. It's, I tried to play to like the 200 people in that room. Yeah.

You're just in that room with them having a great old time with those with that audience. And everyone's watching. So you just get, they get to see, because it's more real if you're playing here instead of like, you know, out to the rafters. Right. Exactly. That's what I would do. Because if I thought what was really happening, and in those days, 20 million or something, it would really, you know, but,

Al, since you know Keegan so well, were you there along the week with him, just sort of, kind of going? Yeah, I mean, they knew everyone knew that I've been Keegan's writing partner for a while. So I actually was given an op, I don't know if I'm allowed. So I was given an opportunity to pitch some script ideas. That's cool. I got to pitch a few ideas like Keegan and I together were on the phone with everyone and

Higgins. Higgins. Steve Higgins. No, I'm well. Steve Higgins. So we were on with Higgins, who also of course, friends with Mike. So Mike, they knew that this was, we were going to throw out some ideas. And one, it was a really, really interesting process. I was able to help cut a few things and trim a few things and the Muppet sketch was fantastic.

I mean, the Cermet the Frog, yeah, the Muppets. Yeah, I thought that's like an all time sketch. It hit me so hard. The concept of it. Security. Yeah. We talked about this before, I think. We probably came up, but it's something about that sketch, I think, is like a hall of famous. It's fine because he's not playing the substitute teacher, but he still gets to play the guy who's extremely angry. Oh, when they start beating the shit out of the pub,

isn't stuff. It's so... Again, it escalates nicely, and it's just a beautiful stuff. I did. So one of the lines, and you might tell me if I did wrong here, but I was able to cut. So when they're beating up the, like, they're about to beat up the muppets, or they're really excited to beat up, you know, the guys in the balcony on the sketch,

it was like, you know, the guys in the balcony on the sketch. It was like, you know, you're gonna kill him, like you killed that teenage boy. Or there was some line like that that I was like, I think beating up the muppets is enough. Yeah, it was. Yeah. Well, it was already in the chaos.

Didn't you say, oh, they must be veterans that lost their legs or something? That's already, that's already edgy enough right there. I don't think he can. I don't need anything. He also killed a kid. I would agree with that trim personally. OK, thank you.

Thank you. Yes. So one of the things I pitched them, they ended up using a couple weeks later in a different kind of version, which I learned. Oh, that's flattering. Yes, I was told that's flattering. You're told it's flattering. I'm not was told that's for this platter.

You're told it's flattering. What did you say? She was told that was flattering, right? That's what someone said when they used one of my jokes in their act. That's flattering. I was looking at the wrong lens. So what was the sketch? They did, they did, well, I'll tell you the one they they actually went to dress with the sketch that I had pitched and it was

After two years of COVID so Keegan and it's in the book to Keegan was in a Renaissance festival when he was younger He got to perform and do bits and you know Acrobat stuff and run around a Renaissance an actual Renaissance festival and I thought Once it be great with all of the hashtags and PC and how politically correct and sensitive everybody is to everything, what if there was a sketch about a Renaissance festival that had been shut down for the last two years for COVID, and now they're back. So they're back and they're going to start like, welcome back, it's been two years. So, you know, we haven't had a festival in a couple of years and we're back and we're very excited,

but we are going to make a few small changes to to the festival. For example, we're not going to be using the word wench. We've decided that wench doesn't work for this and that you know. So that's fine. The joke bucket was how many things can you do for this and that, you know. So it became like, the joke bucket was, how many things can you do and then say, oh, and you know what we're not gonna do? Oh, you know what the other thing too, is we're gonna cut, you know, Keegan, whatever Keegan's character's name is,

is he's not gonna get chased by the cops and get beat, not, you know, chased by the sheriff. By the sheriff to get beaten up in front of everyone while the kids throw fruit at him or whatever it was. And he was like, wait, but that's my, like, that's the best part. That's my shit. That's all I do. And they're like, yeah, we just feel that maybe Keegan, you know, getting beaten up by sheriff's in front of small children probably is not the best look. And then I was like, and then you could say, well, what if we use someone else?

They're like, okay, who would we use. And then I was like, and then you could say, well, what if we use someone else? They're like, okay, who would we use? And then like, what? Well, to use Bowen, definitely not. We're not using Bowen. We're not gonna beat up Bowen. The cops are gonna beat up the only Asian guy in the cast. So, so anyhow, so that was, and they ended up,

it ended up, they ended up writing a sketch and we pitched jokes for it and it made it to dress rehearsal. And I think it somehow, and dress rehearsal just kind of ran out of it. It didn't. Just, yeah, yeah. Oh. It's sometimes funny when it's funny, it like read through and rehearsal and then you get to dress and you go, what am I missing here?

Something, either start off in the wrong foot. It changed a lot over the few days. Oh, is that what happened? They were tweaking. As you two would know, being there where it wasn't the studio is important. If it's sort of cerebral in that sense, I don't know if it had a, if the sound broke, it would still be funny escalation. I think it got very, I think it got very stretched out.

Yeah. Then it wasn't the, the timing of the jokes. And Keegan and I, when we first met and talked about working together, we had a lot of conversations about jokes and turns and where you think it's going and why things are funny and hey, have you heard this joke? Like just like the science, the science of comedy

and the science of hard jokes. and L has an encyclopedic Knowledge of jokes like she has she knows jokes like you you can't even believe well What's one that pops into your mind out? No, I don't want to put you on the phone like joke like hard joke jokes Yeah, well the first the first joke I told Keegan was and and forgive me if anyone's heard But there's a little kid and he's smoking, and this old guy comes up to him and he says, kid, you know, you really shouldn't smoke. It's not healthy.

It's really bad for you. And the kid says, well, my grandfather's 95 years old. The guy goes, wow, and he's a smoke right? He goes, no, he minds his own fucking business. Like, there's the turn. Yeah. So where's that joke? And the shortest joke that all those,

I happen to be Jewish from New York. So I remember every old lady, old couple joke there is. But the short one that Keegan loves is the old woman yells downstairs to her husband and she says, Morty, why don't you come upstairs and make love to me? And he says, fine, but I can't do both. I've got a pretty quick one. Nice, ready? Quick, sorry.

Let me hate people that don't laugh. They just do their joke next. That's me. Okay, so it's a good beginning. A five year old and a child must are walking into the woods. It's not. And you've heard it. So I'm not hurt. I just the five year old goes, Mr. I'm scared. And he goes, you're scared after this.

I got to walk out of here by myself. Right. There you go. I'm gonna go to a commercial. Is that, is that, do you two write those kind of, like I'm terrible really thinking of jokes, like I would have to, you know, I do this bad, bad redneck character,

you know, red, red, neck either redneck comedian and it's intentionally bad. I've never gotten into work very well, but you have, it works on here. You haven't fought so loud dog to stay away-a-way go what that come on get some You know, it's you they come and get some as a funny. It's a come and get some Come and get some you ever crap so big you don't know gonna get down that toilet come and get some I made my sister only cuz mama turned me down come and get some

I made my sister only because mama took me down come and get some but I Come again, I told my eyes said to mama. What's for dinner? She said roadkill. I said what kind she says? I got a ticket drive come on get some So those are the I could write in that character a little bit, but they're intentionally really bad, but really good Twisted jokes, I don't in that character a little bit, but they're intentionally really bad, but really good twisted jokes. I don't have that skill set. That's a good turn or not a joke, is it? Do you have another short joke? Do you have an, I've already had a short joke. I know, Joe.

Just think of them. It's the, just great, I just great jokes. I have an x-rated one that I don't know if it's that funny. Someone told it to me, but if you take it literally, sometimes people go, ooh, but it's my, how do you get a dog to stop pumping your leg? Pick them up and blow them. Okay, all right.

We can, I love it, someone told it to you. He's like, I didn't make it up. I didn't make it up. Don't play in the messenger. This episode is brought to you by progressive insurance. What if comparing current insurance rates Don't blame the messenger! Then, their tool will provide options from other companies so you can compare. All you need to do is choose the rate and coverage you like. Quote today at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust progressive. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Comparison rates not available in all states or situations.

Price is very based on how you buy. We're back here with L and Keegan. So what makes you to laugh the most right now? Like, you go to movies, you go to YouTube. I don't know. This podcast. So, I'm very fortunate. Christopher guest also was someone I had spoke to who's in the book and he

comes someone we uh we we adore and um he I think he and I have fun playing the gym game which is do you know the gym game? No. I guess it was Christopher guest and uh who else was at? Very sure. And Harry's here. So we're on some project together. I don't know if it was Juan Tap or something else. Or SNL, yeah. I don't know, maybe it was Ron SNL. It might have been SNL time. Could have been SNL.

They had that one year together, I think. It was Billy Crystal. Yeah. So they have a game that they play called the Jim game that I actually heard through a friend. And then I had, when I met Christopher, I asked him to back up to it. So I've heard about this Jim game. It's basically that the concept, oh, there was a, there was a TV commercial with Jim

Amichi years and years ago that was Donna Amichi's brother, younger brother. And he says, hi, I'm Jim Amichiici and then he sells whatever thing he's peddling and they thought this this idea that every famous person has a younger lesser known other name Jim. If you see someone that looks like Brad Pitt but you know it's not Brad Pitt. You go, ah, Jim Pitt. And that there's Jim Pitt. So, so Keegan and I have had fun even even to even yesterday. I was like, but, but Chris would be very upset because I, I try to make it as easy as possible as I say the full name over the person because you can't, if you say Jim Smith, you don't know who you're talking about So and please forgive me Christopher if you hear this, but I it's not the gym gets not the official gym game

I apologize, but I say hey look it's Jimmy Brad Pitt So if I say Jimmy Brad Pitt Look around the room See I'm talking a little bit that's So yesterday we saw someone and I said Jimmy Jimmy John Goodman, Jimmy John Goodman. And he looked very, I mean, really uncanny, like John Goodman. He looked like John Goodman. He looked like a skinny John Goodman.

So, so we do, we play the Jimmy game, but I told Chris that I was with Keegan and we were in California and we were somewhere, like, South of LA. And I saw this really beat up hotel by the beach. And I said, look, give him shutters. Yeah, that's good. And then.

Shutters is a beautiful hotel. I think Michael Keaton had a bit of like Hitler's brother be like Biff Hitler or you know, everyone's done bits like like Eddie, Eddie Lincoln, Eddie Lincoln. Eddie Lincoln. Eddie Lincoln, you know, those are the word, I like that. I also like a shortening names when you're I'd watch talk shows as a kid and they they say so I was I was talking to John Carson And Eddie McMahon everything is always slightly changed.

I'm Bob Bobby Mitchum and Robbie rep for whatever anyway, but so The gym game is fun because you see someone and someone else knows I'd be like Jimmy Barbara Streisand. It's a good code. You just gotta, you know, your eyes have to dart but you have to be very kind of nondescript when you're doing it. But you can also in conversation be like someone leaves or they were rude and be like what what just happened, you know Jimmy Jam's Franco whatever whatever, you know whoever was just so Maybe perhaps you'd see me and they'd say Jimmy Billy mummy From lost in space some people

He was lost in space 1969 sorry dating myself So so John Balushi has a brother named, Tom Hanks has a brother named Jim. Yeah. There are actually famous people of younger brothers. And I think that's how you win, by the way. So if you actually see a younger brother of a successful actor, and his name is Jim, I think you win the game.

No, that's it. You know, I think, guys, I think that when I was doing the improv at the beginning, shit, I was like 21, I think Tom's brother was a waiter there and Jim Hanks, I think. We should have asked Tom because I think what he did is he was a waiter and then he get up on stage and try stand up and he once said, he would wear his waiter uniform, which is funny. And he would say, you know, Tom Hanks is my brother,

and I think one of his jokes I liked was, people say, you're a waiter, and he's a super big loser. Why is he just giving you a million dollars? Does anyone know why? I don't know why. That's because he didn't give me a million dollars. There's a million dollars.

There's a million dollars. He said, why doesn't he? I don't know, Why doesn't he? That's a good, so easy friend. A good way to own that, because it's, yeah, that's a tough position. Yeah, at least people are thinking it's either to throw it out there, but I guess he was a stint.

I don't know, but it's tough. I mean, to be super famous like the way Dennis Miller, our friend, his little brother is Jimmy Miller, who used to be, used to make French fries. Yeah, the the manager great manager Yeah, who talks a little bit like Dennis just laid back richy and Jimmy Yeah, they ever run into Jimmy's got you in a headlock within like a minute come here He's getting his yeah, he that guy loves a noogie. He loves or grab your hand grab your hand like twist your hand

I know he likes to kind of, but you're a big guy. But with me, sort of, Jimmy, please. You know, I get picked up way too much. With David, David, people just pick him up like a puppet. Yeah, they put me in their shoulders and we walk blocks and I go, put me down, blocks. Blocks. All right, kid, kid, again, you don't know this,

but you are in hotel, Transylvania, and you play the mummy, kid again, you don't know this, but you are in hotel Transylvania and you play the mummy, I think, because I didn't know that. I do play the mummy. Now, is this, but did you, did you replace Celo Green? Is that my possible recollection? I was, yes. Celo was in the first movie and then I was in two, three, four. Two, three, four.

Yeah. I think also for all those buffs of hotel Transylvania, Dana's one of them. I was, I did a character, but it wasn't even a character. I was in one of them. I can't remember. I love it. I don't even remember that at all. I didn't get to watch.

Really, Dana? Yeah, I was. I, you know, my, I can't remember my voice, but I knew that it was, it was a non-starter. You said, I'm a vampire, I want you blood coming in, son. Call it. You know, I remember that guy. No, you know, I don't even know if you're a character, my character, have ever interacted with each other.

I think we hang out in the movie a little bit like in a pack. Yeah, that's true. We hang out in a pack. We hang out in a pack. We hang like in a pack. Yeah, I'm a pack. Yeah, we hang out in a pack. We hang out in a pack. Frank, but I got to come alive. I'm only glasses because I'm in visible data. You might want to get a pen.

I am only invisible in the first three, but this one, we reverse and we turn back into people of something. Yeah, that was a good one. They do a good job with those, by the way. I think they're funny. They do. Can I ask you guys a random question? Cause you're doing animation, so people ask me,

what do you, what do you get paid for one of those kind of things? You know, what do you get? So for either of you, what, you don't have to say what it is, but there's certain things you kind of get paid more than you think you would or other things are maybe you're getting checks in the mail. Right. What have been some home runs for you financially in a surprising way?

Like I did a thing for cat and dogs and it got, I did it to an actor they didn't like what he was doing and they tried to get me to Dubba's voice. So they didn't use it, it didn't work because the animation was already done. I got checks for 20 years. Really? That's awesome. Try to think what, what, what, what what what was the easiest job for the most money? You know kind of

Yeah, 10 seconds. I did you ever write anything you got a big writing should that those are good residuals. I remember writing the right sports and wrote benchwarmers with San I guess I guess I came out of... I came out of... Producing, right? Yeah, I've got a balance check. So when you produce an independent film, you kind of learn every single job you could possibly learn on a movie or a project. So when I started getting jobs that actually paid, I was like, oh, well, I can write in and

I'll edit it and I'll do the storyboard for it, and I can do all these things, and people are like, oh, no, no, you don't have to do that. You can just write the commercial, or direct the campaign. And then I was like, well, I have an idea for the campaign. What if I pitched the idea for the campaign to the client, which I don't think happens that often,

that they consider a director, they say, hey, we've done a whole bunch of campaigns together. They say, then I'll write and direct them. And Keegan is the Rasmitas. And so I ended up getting to a place where people would stop hiring. Wouldn't use their agency. The middleman. Use us for everything.

So between the two of us, we are kind of a, you know, we have a package deal. One stop. What would be your dream as a couple? Do you have a sense of maybe doing an indie film together? Or I will not not an indie film, but I'm going to direct a film here. I'm directing a grown-up film. Yes. Is your husband is it in it? or is he is in it? I like to say that I um he was he was cast as a supporting role and then he married me and now he has the upgrade I've given him an upgrade. Oh for the least. So where is the incredible game? What? So it's a sci-fi romantic adventure. So three auditions you've made.

Open on the space. I know my I whatever one of our publicists is on the is on the call it hasn't it hasn't been announced yet but um it's gonna be a kind of a cop action movie with Kegan is the lead. Okay let's guess what the title is for a second David what do you think that working title it's an action type. New York action. New York action. I'm going to call it 10th Avenue. 10th Avenue. Not bad. All right. Okay. 10th Avenue. I'm taking notes. I'm taking notes. This would be the biggest money maker of my career. If I name this thing and get little residual check, if I live to 105, I'll

tell my kids it was that 10th Avenue. Go ahead David. Actually, it's I don't know how funny story it is, but when I first wrote the scripts, we were we was years ago. I first wrote and I wrote it as a straight drama. And I put I want to like I have an uncle Joe, my dad's best friend called me. A real Uncle Joe? I have an Uncle Joe, Joey Saladino. So I call him, I said, look, I wrote this script, I'm going to send it out to a bunch of agents and a bunch of producers.

And I don't want to put my name on it. I don't want them to think a woman wrote it. I put the name Frank Saladino as the writer. I like it. And that is how I sent the script out. And I took a whole bunch of meetings and they're like, Frank Saladino, did he work on the wire? I think I knew Frank. Frank's great, right? You know, I think I've heard of Frank. I think I knew Frank when he worked on NYPD Blue did Frank work on and people he has no I have to pay page he does not exist and people think Frank's got this go I like it better than a guy wrote

this Frank Saladino wrote it smart if you've been in Frankie Saladino what do you mean that's right you could be a Frankie I actually it was my nickname in college believe it or not was Frank Frank Frankie is a is a Switch. Harlem adjacent. Franky is a official like Robin or Dana or whatever. It's a switch, it her name. A woman can be Franky, right? And it's not a problem. Frank is cute.

So I still have friends who call me Frank. I went to Syracuse and I, it was a joke freshman year and it, and I became Frank for all of college. So I was like, okay, I'm calling it Frank Saladino. And that's how I sent it out to the world. And then, then my age is at UTA. Like, there aren't a lot of women female writer directors in the genre at all.

So they said it's good. No, I'm trying to think of. I'm on it. So Harlem adjacent opens, well, we're gonna shoot it. Harlem adjacent, okay, we have 10th Avenue, we have. Harlem adjacent. Harlem adjacent, okay, 10th Avenue. It's Harlem adjacent Harlem adjacent. Okay. 10th That's what it makes. It's not

Ritales are not are not I've got one a little more dramatic because I just see a picture of key. You know, you know, play times over And that's his catchphrase right before he heart. He kills the entire neighborhood play time So if you're still in your medieval costume and it's sir Lancashot He's right before he hark, he kills the entire neighborhood. Play time. Play time. So if you're still in your medieval costume and it's Sir Lancashot, and you've got a gun this time, what if you're the substitute teacher, but you're back in heat? Yeah. If you don't pronounce your name right, there's going to be hell to pay. And you got a big bowl whip.

Spools back for the summer. School. So so you know, you know Keegan's talent, you live with them, and you know how much he's done with when you direct this film, or you try to tease out something he hasn't been able to show off, because it seems like he's done 900 things. The research is unbelievable. All the sketch shows and and movies and television. If you get a chance to see the opening of the NFL honors last year, that was my baby. And I'm a NFL honors on YouTube. Yeah, and I wanted Kegan,

I was like, I want Kegan to rap in it. I want Kegan's gonna tell jokes. He's gonna sing, by the way, his beautiful voice, which I learned, he has a stunning, stunning voice. And I made him, I inspired him to sing at our wedding. And our agents were like, you sing Kegan. How come you didn't tell us this? Like it was, I asked Kegan a question.

For a phenomenal face. Kegan, what can't you do? Because I could do a lot of things, but I really can't sing. I could fake sing, but I can't sing. So you're doing all this sketch stuff, all these characters, all these impressions. And now you't sing. I could fake sing, but I can't sing. So you're doing all this sketched up, all these characters, all these impressions. And now you can sing. Is there anything that's a little bit difficult for you? Can you dance, kid? Dan's hands.

I'm not, I'm not, let's say this. I, I think I can move. I'm not a dancer, but you know, that's a thing the people say. It's like, he can move. He can move. But I'm not, I write, I would say, I'm like, I can swim. I can get from one side of them in real life, which is the thing is I absolutely love them in real life You can watch dancing. That's another thing you've got Inside baseball thing while on this subject I found interesting I know someone who works with Jimmy Fallon and when Justin Timberlake would come on and they're doing this very Advanced choreography and Justin's obviously super talented, But Jimmy, could you show it to him once? And he's got all the steps down. You know, he just has that skill set of really being able to do.

Oh, well, I don't know if that's good. Yeah, he's good at it. I mean, God, half his show is pre-tapes. I wouldn't be able to do that. It's so hard anyway. And then pre-tap after learning to dance, pre-tap, learn this. It's pre-tap.

I know. I go to Coney Island with J. Lo. It's like every time there's something going on, anyway. But I definitely take enough about him. Sorry to answer your question, Dana. I definitely try to say, I know that Kegan wants to do more action and things like that. So I'm writing for him, really fun things for him to do.

So I'm writing for him things that I want to see him do fun things for him to do. So I'm writing for him things that I wanna see him do that I know he can do. I love the genre. I do like revenge movies. I like kick ass mob stuff. I love sopranos. I love this course A. Z stuff, Codefellas. So it'd be fun to see Keegan

in an environment like that, you know? So that was a very long answer of yes, this is This is something we want to do. It's very freaking this movie. I took the I took the drama I took a lot of the drama made it more well one at one of our both of our favorite movies is as midnight run That's why I was gonna ask oh my god. Oh my god So in action movie and it but we say it's a comedy, but the bullets are real. It's kind of the way we've got to. I think if you put,

if someone can operate in all these different comedy frequencies, that's very intellectual. Someone like Kegan, and you put them in a world that's heavy, you know, I'm not saying taxi driver level, but there's big laughs to be had there with the... Out of seriousness. Yeah.

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your family clearly, and those closest to you. Edward Jones, we do money differently. Visit EdwardJones.ca slash different. I was curious about, this is what I'm curious about, seeing all this and listening to you guys as an artistic, whatever capital A couple, steeped in all this creativity. You know, what are the things that the 10-pole movies

that you share or movies or television or streaming or stuff you watch together and look at each other and go holy shit, you know, or movies that you touchstones that you might watch every other year, or cartoons, I don't know, I'm just curious about how you consume all this Your own your own habits consuming art

The show that we both just are in all of this Barry. I think Barry's I never got. No, it's brilliant I love the real bullets. There you go. That's that that balance of comedy and and drama. Yeah, Barry is Anthony was balance of comedy and and drama. That area is Anthony. What's Anthony Corrigan? Anthony Corrigan. Oh, the you're saying. The way he reads the line, it's always a little what you're not expecting. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that nice balance between the comedy and the drama and there is absurdism in the

show as well. But it's always based in something grounded. It really, I just thought that Bill did such a great job. Bill and Alec did such a great job with that show. You know, I just thought it was. Oh, yeah. One of my favorite cinematic moments is the first Indiana Jones when Harrison Ford has been fighting all these people. And this guy has, you know, his night, his sword and Harrison Ford takes out a gun and shoots him. He's so tired. It's like that, that's kind of that feeling

of Barry just being like, oh God, now I gotta kill this guy. Really, I gotta do this. Yeah, yeah. That was something. Oh yeah, when someone won't stop attacking and fighting like, oh, fuck. You're dead.

What about when he tells the girl for how he would make his his make her friend go insane. If he went in her house and changed things around. The girl's just staring at him and he makes it sound so normal. And she's like, yeah, do your fucking mind, dude. Because she is like, but he says it so earnestly because this is actually pretty easy.

I just break in every night. I just change your furniture around. Just make her go insane quiet. And she's like, dude, what are you talking about? Right, right, right. Just got to it. It's very, it's just well done overall, yeah, without getting in one of those great shows. What about movies? Yeah, five seconds. I said midnight run is midnight run is okay. That's something. Yeah, that's just one of those movies. I love that. That's a classic midnight run is one of those films It's just it there's everything's right about it. Yeah

Even just Joey Joey pants on the phone and the guy next to him trying to punch the gut while he's on the phone like Oh the two guys and the two guys out in the and the two guys out in the uh in the desert in the in the uh Phone booth right right? Like just every small there's almost no one like Charles groten out there. Yeah Let's see guys out in the desert in the phone booth. Right. Right. Just every small. There's almost no one like Charles Grote now there. Yeah. Maybe when John Austin is. Oh, John Austin.

Yeah, when he's smoking a cigarette and he goes to buy a ticket at the airport and the person says that you like smoking or not smoking goes, what do you think? It is for the cigarette and it's just small jokes that are jokes but aren't jokes at the same time. Just throw ways, yeah. Throw ways that work and just beautiful behavioral stuff. That movie, it's so cool. That's the thing you can get in film.

I love it too. I've never been in a good movie reel. I've been in a broad comedy, but you can get those little moments in film. It's so much fun. Digital cameras, editing, all the tools. There's so much cheaper. Oh, yeah.

Midnight run. So Charles, he was funny when God rest his soul, one of our greats. In the 90s, remember, he did his MSNBC show? He was a talk show host for a while. I don't know if you remember that. Oh no, I don't remember that. And I came on and he said, I want you to do the whole interview.

I used to do it in perfect, couldn't get it now. A do the whole interview is Johnny. So I had to stay in Johnny Carson for 20 minutes. So Charles Grown. It's exhausting. But so. Grown is a rare talent that we don't have one like that. I don't think. We don't have it. Yeah, you're right. We don sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The Fending Your Life. Albert Brock. Albert Brock. Albert Brock. Yes, but he's not been as busy lately. Albert, that's pretty close. Where are you? Are you listening Albert? The Fending Your Life was one of my favorites.

Oh yeah, I think that's great. Let's let him know. That's not the casino one, is it? That's a different one. That's across America or something. The Fending Your Life is the one with him and Marrow Street where they're in kind of a wastage. Yeah, yeah.

You'll be thinking of movies after we stop the podcast. It is sort of like, I'll say Stanley Kubrick, Martin Scorsese, uh, Quentin Tarantino, uh, who did aliens? Sorry, and gladiator. Ridley Scammer. Ridley Scammer. It's James Cameron. James Cameron.

Jimmy Cameron. Roman. James Cameron. James Cameron. Jimmy Cameron. Roman. True romance. True romance. Christa Rewalkin. Is that where he has the speech about? Yeah. He has the speech.

The thing in his, yeah, yeah. One of the greatest scenes in cinematic history that that scene in that trailer. Oh my God. You give me chills because I've watched that and I've shown it to people just that scene as far as just sort of a perfect scene With Christopher walkin being Christopher walkin Dennis. Especially when you watch the whole movie to ramp up to it and you hit it It's like and when the guy knows he's gonna die and gets the cigarette and stuff. It's beautiful I may watch it after Yeah, yeah, I also love the first born movie

I'm a huge Doug Lyman fan. Oh, yeah Jason born with with Maddie Damon Yeah, the first the poor sport identity is so simple and It's done so well the first one. Oh the first okay I like any meme that has some kid doing something stupid and karate and falling down and then you cut the guy going Jesus Christ That's Jason Moore. Oh yeah, it's so funny. We are a little obsessed with the wrong missing. There you go, David.

Hey, there is a place in the wrong missing has a very special place in our heart. The cliff when she goes off that cliff. Oh, fucking shit. Three days of shooting her, wamping on that cliff. Oh my God, that was so good. Yeah, that movie just popped. It's great. Oh fucking shit three days of shooting her wamping on that cliff It's great. I've recommended the wrong missing but when I do it I apologize when I recommend it But it's I go it's you will laugh out loud

It is so good and then you're gonna be mad that you laughed out loud Yeah, the opening scene because it's very hard our movie the opening scene run a date I'm this kind of nerdy guy Dana and she goes she starts going quit. I fucking me and I'm like I'm not She's like no this dick behind you and it's like this huge wrestler guy and he goes I'm not doing shit She goes fuck you my boy. We're gonna kick your fucking ass. I'm like this is the first day of shooting Because she was supposed to say some of that, and then just keep going, keep going, and to keep it within reason. But every take we'd start laughing,

and I'm like, God damn, and it was kind of hard because I was a straight man, and it's hard to be a straight man, and it's so funny to watch her go nuts. So everyone would just try to help feed her stuff. Because she's so good on her own, she's not needing anything, but it was such a fun movie. that that was the first day of shooting So you start to go oh this might be good because it's if we can keep doing this kind of shit

Yeah, thank you have you seen it have you seen the wrong missing? Oh, yeah, I've seen it. Yeah, it's just thought it Yeah, she was brilliant in it. I mean it was like two, I've said two or four three times on this. On the third time. But that's a true like a star's born. I mean, and Jim Carrey asked, you know, the physicality and her commitment on the staging of it and everything about it. It just worked. Also, I don't know where like no one plus it's a movie. When I'm in it, they're probably looking to me to be like, Oh, how funny is he going gonna be in this? And then she's right next to me killing it. And you're like, no, this is where you look. You know what I mean? They're like, in this one, in this one.

Yeah, exactly. I was like intrigued by the script because I go, oh, this is kind of like meet the parents where I'm the Ben still are everything's happening around me. Next word since weird, everyone's weird. And I'm trying to hold it down. And that's a fun thing to play. Like Jason Bateman does it a lot, you know? And like, Everyone's weird and I'm trying to hold it down and that's a fun thing to play like Jason

Bateman does it a lot, you know? Or he can and Schmigga do and he's not part of the crew. It's fun to go. That's an important job too. I keep telling myself. And so to watch it all unfold and have it do well was was a lot of fun. Can we do a shout out to Cessli Strong before, you know, and you and her and Shemigadun, I mean, the second season is out or what where are you at? Second season's

out. Yeah. Second season is finished. So you can watch that whole, you can, your person can binge that season if they want to call it Shemigago. Shemigago. Shemigadoo. Shemigadoo. Shed out of it. Also to some up, and I wanna say, Kegan is from Southfield, Michigan. I'm from Bloomfield Hills. He was adopted as a child. I was told I was adopted. We have a lot of things in common. Yeah, right.

And what do you read? That's all I have in common. That's it. Oh, one last thing I also had for him. Okay, go ahead. One last thing we can take a break and come back. Your experience is playing Obama's anger translator, just that White House correspondent.

It must have been sort of a out of body kind of gig. I mean, how that come about? It was a weird one. It was, I remember I had spoken to one of his junior speech writers. And they were asking if we wanted to do something sometime. And I was like, yeah, that would be wonderful. Wow. And they got in contact with my manager at the time.

And he was like, do you think it'd be possible for you to go to White House correspondent dinner and do this thing? And I said, yeah, let me talk to the speech writer. So I spoke to the speech writer. He wrote the speech. He wrote the scene for us. And it was, I remember rehearsing it so much that I knew Obama's lines and my lines. It was so important to me to get it to Naila

because I figured he's got other things on his mind, right? He's not just thinking about the speech. Oh, it's the president. It's the president's thing. He's got other stuff going on. He wants to jump's not just thinking about the speech. Oh, it's the president. It's the president. He's got other stuff going on. He wants to jump in. He's like, oh, this is next, do this. But you rehearsed.

So you're ready. Exactly, right? Yeah. I had to be ready. And he was a hell of a straight man. He was so funny. Yeah, he's funny. You know.

So he really, he gets comedy. Yes. He gets comedy. And it was really, really fantastic. And I remember not thinking about the magnitude of the moment until literally seconds before I walked on stage. I mean, seconds, because I had just been rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsing, rehearsing, and then all of a sudden I'm backstage and I hear him go, you're going to bring in my

anger translator, Luther. And then I started to answer it as I entered. I was like, freak out. And I was like, I'm in character. But my heart, all of a sudden, my heart was trying to catch up to how nervous I should. When was your first laugh? Did your first line get a big laugh? And then you kind of, I mean, just right away.

Right away. Right away. Right away. Right away. Right away a lot. Yeah, first there were there were people in the audience who knew the character. Yeah, the majority of the people in the audience did not know the character, but there were people in the audience who knew the character. And so that kind of calmed me down and I heard people go, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know what I mean?

I was like, okay, all right, we're going to be all right. And then the first joke came out it murdered first joke. First joke murdered. And so then I knew I was going to be okay. And you calm down. Let's look over and he was just, he was just killing it as the straight man. Killing it. It was really good. It was pretty good. Can I ask one more question? I'm sorry we keep ending, but so you guys have been married four years.

And now I've gotten to know you. It was a good one. Five years, you've been married five years now. I think it's four. I checked. But anyway, I think it's four, I checked. But anyway, how do you resolve conflict, or do you go to therapy, merit, or is it, you have such a flow at this point in your lives, you know, with each other, or how's the marriage go and you seem very happy, but sometimes there's a lot of

tension underneath. I'm kidding. I think the world, I was like, this is your last quick. The work stuff is easy, which is odd because I feel like people are like, I could work with my wife or I couldn't work with my husband and they go, how do you do that? So, well, we were friends and we were working together and figuring out how to work together before the other stuff before you became romantic. Yeah, exactly. Oh, okay. I didn't know that's that's a big big difference. So your friends. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, so we're friends like similar sense of humor. We um

No, what is it that we uh, well, we we we've you know we we get along really hard. Our minds are kind of work as one. It's amazing. We really do. It's like we finish each other's sentences. Sandwiches. Sandwiches. Those sandwiches. Can I show you a romantic or romantic question?

Because I've never had that experience. I've been married for 71 years, though, but we're happy with you. But this idea that you're friends, and then maybe at some point, one of you realize this subconsciously, well, this feels like more than friends than me. Like I'm really physically attracted. So there's this moment where you're just friends, and then you start making out.

What's that like? Do you laugh about it? Like, because you're just pals for how you're scared that the other person might It might ruin everything. What the fuck? I don't wear friends. Yeah, I mean I think I think we both Because we we didn't meet until we were in our 40s um and Keegan was Sep was separating and didn't have children, but he was going through his separation.

And I was kind of like, look, you know, I want to stay away from all of that. You go do what you got to do. Yeah, yeah. I think basically, the big thing was, is what is a partner and what is a friend and what is a friend mean and what does it mean to be a good partner to someone. Partners are people who inspire each other, they support each other, they provoke each other, they try to bring out each other's strengths. I mean, ideally that's what you want in a partner.

And when we were friends, I knew Ken Peele was going to be ending soon. And I actually was lucky enough I was able to go to a couple tapings of the show and I brought some friends to see him and see the show. And it was really phenomenal to be there and see those interstitials before the end. I said to Kee-N-Peele, if you could do anything after Kee-N-Peele ends, anything in the world, you had a silver platter and you put anything on it and you didn't have any story standing in your way about what you could do. You didn't have a story standing in your way, what would you do? And it was a really, like, it was a question that really threw him.

It was difficult to answer. And then, and then eventually he said, I want to do Shakespeare and I want to be Jason Born. And I was like, so you have theater agents, you can talk to your theater agency and you can fly to New York and meet with everybody and tell them you want to do theater. And within a year and a half of that conversation, Keegan was at the public theater with Oscar Isaac in Hamlet. He dug Lyman who and and I've become friends over the years. I said, I can introduce you to Doug Lyman and Doug put Keegan in an accident sequence in the TV show.

And I was like, you can do any of these things. You're the only person stopping yourself from these things. You're the only one standing in your way. And I think that kind of that I think that that shift was kind of working in an eye, working was like, well, hey, wait a second, don't leave. Can you stay around for a minute? Like how are you able to figure out? I'm not forever. You know, I'll have someone you trust right there.

I mean, you should have positive to it. Can you do that again? How did you do that? What can we do next? How do we, what do we do? And I say, well, how do we, you know, as long as you keep asking the universal things and find a way to share and give back

the universe keeps giving you things. So I was like, well, what do you want to do? And how do we share? And how can, and, and one of the, the things that, on a side note, is that when I write for Keegan for comedy, which we didn't get into, and I know you're

going to cut stuff down later when you need to. Oh no, these can go pretty long, don't worry. Is that a... How do you write? And we talked a little bit about this at the Milk and Conference a couple of weeks ago in LA, is they asked what we want to talk about it. And I said, I really want to talk about, you can be mean with humor or you can be inclusive with humor and make people laugh.

And for the last couple of years, anything I write for Keegan, if you see, he does not make fun of people. He does not punch down. He's not mean to anyone. I was like, I want any time you tell a joke in public or on stage, you can be funny and also you can lift people and be inclusive. You can be self-deprecating, but we've done a bunch of TV shows together where I give the writers a really hard time. I said, you are not allowed to make fun of Kegan. Kegan can make fun of Kegan,

but you should not be. We're not making fun of the other people on the show, anyone on a panel. We're not even for the NFL honors thing. I called Gronk and I said, Gronk, these are the jokes. Which joke do you want to be part of? And which joke do you feel comfortable with? And how do you want us to tell it so that you're in on it?

Like I want you to be in on it. And I think that there's something about the fact that the two of us together can do more good in the world than either of us could do if we were a part. So. I'm so glad you got to say that. It was bigger than home. That's really, really interesting.

Well, Keegan obviously is a performer as an extreme likeability quotient is sort of a gift. I think Colin Joseph did a, his book he called it a punchable face, but Keegan is joyful when he's performing. I mean, you can tell he's having a blast, even when he's being, you know, doing whatever he's doing. So that's cool. So a blast, even when he's doing whatever he's doing. So that's cool. So you guys have a,

it's a very mature relationship. When you get together, you've already had life behind you in their 40s. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very mature. So you know all the tricks of the trade, all the ditches, all the stuff. That sounds like,

I'm going to say this is a good relationship. I'm gonna give it five stars a good relationship. I'm going to give it five stars. I'm going to come in on the couch in your place tomorrow. And we'll talk about other things. But it is someone you trust in respect, which you'd both have for each other, which is great and says stuff to you. It's just, it's like therapy, which I started when I was 60,

but that's another story. But it's great in that context. I, you, well, do that. It's. But it's great in that context. I will do that. It's very interesting how we get in our own way as performers. Why wanna do it? Actually, we'll do one. What you get? And now I'm like, well, I'll write one for you.

Yeah. Yeah, and you'll write one for me. We were texting during the podcast. I'm sorry, but L and I. Oh, and yeah, I did, yeah. So then you guys are gonna do Harlem adjacent to? Yeah. I'm doing a lot. I'm doing it in law. Never been served. Sorry, but Ellen, I, yeah, yes, you guys are going to do Harlem adjacent to. I'm doing loaded in locked.

So I have a bottle of booze in a gun. On the load and loaded in locked. Loaded in locked. There are lots of shots. I think I write down. Okay, good. Those are all good. All usable. It's good.

You, you, I'm actually, I don't have a title for it, but I've been trying to come up with the name like his character, the name of his character has more than one meaning. I love those movies like that. I love it too. Keegan Michael Key and Elle Key have been our guest today. Love seeing you, love getting to know people on these podcasts, really fun.

And I hope we run into each other. Or as I like to say, see around campus, the campus of show business. And she and Bo- Shrekadoon is as I like to say, see around campus, the campus of show business. And Shrekadun is everywhere I recommend to anyone, especially if you don't not exclusively love Broadway musicals, it really rocks you and Cessli are great in that. All right, bye guys. All right. Have a good day.

Take care. Take care, guys. Bye-bye. Awkward leave. This has been a podcast presentation of Cadence 13. Please listen, then rate, review, and follow all episodes. Available now for free, wherever you get your podcast. No joke, folks! Flying the Wall has been a presentation of Cadence 13, executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Chris Corkren of Cadence 13 and Charlie Feinen of Brillstein Entertainment. The shows lead producers Greg Holtman with production and engineering support from Serena

Regan and Chris Bezel of Cadence 13.