Fly on the Wall with Dana Carvey and David Spade - LORNE MICHAELS (Part 1)

Episode Date: September 28, 2022

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Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or pay subscription starting at 1299 per month. We have the great and powerful Oz on the show, Lord Michael. The became the unintentional star of the podcast because he's the touchstone for all the Saturday Night Live people is Lord Michaels.

The common denominator. The yeah, the touchstone, the common denominator, the touchdenator. The thing that everyone talks about a lot, that's more unwieldy than the touchstone. But we're thrilled to get him and it, he's our most commonly asked guest. When will you have Lauren? When will you have Lauren? And he was very cool to do this because he doesn't

do a lot of stuff and he doesn't like to be bothered and I wouldn't either. You got like a one. Yeah, I took a chance. I called him up at home and I said Lauren. Hi, this is Dana and we'd love you to come on the talk on our podcast and he goes I don't know who this is but So I came and it was great. So he comes in and he came to the house and did it and you know It really reminded me of being back at us now because me you have it's like sitting at read through or sitting in a meeting And you have that reverence form and you want to make him laugh. He's like a at read through or sitting in a meeting and you have that reverence form and you want to make him laugh. He's like a father figure in a weird way, you know a lot of

Pretty much everything I've had is based on S&L and him Keep me on there. So he's he's very interesting guy to talk to he's as smart as they come and I don't know I probably should have brought up my Lauren impression, but I've talked to him about it off Mike before at a restaurant, how I then I got him at, you know, in 86 when he was in during the trying to pick the show. I still have no fucking first act. And that was the first time I got his rhythm. And then we talk about Laurenisms on the show. You show. You never leave a hit. And he's a brilliant guy. I mean, he really is fun to listen to.

You know what's a funny one? I can't say who was, but someone we know did a movie. And he was a pretty big star. And it opened very poorly. And I was in a limo with Lauren. And I go, do you think he'll get another movie? And he goes, well, not every studio wants to lose 30 million in work with an asshole.

So I'm do, not all of them. Well, that's kind of his humor. That's exactly a good Lauren humor. This is what Lauren would say, his sense of humor. So we're at the meeting and it's the last show. And you go, this is our last show. We have a two week break. So it'd be like really, really nice

if the show was really good instead of a bad show. You know, you would do that moment. I think it dived tonight. We're being reviewed. So, you know, he's just a fascinating character. We got to sit with him for a long time. And he proved to be very fascinating. And we just said we hung on.

Hey, we didn't talk over, keep talking. Hey, we didn't even talk over. Yeah, Dana. We didn't even, so we didn't, we had a reference for. We're not talking over the guests. Because he's a great storyteller. And we get into a lot of things.

We get into the current cast and his emotional relationship with cast members and how long he has been there. 50th anniversary, come out. Never happened before in the history of television. A guy producing a show for a half century. So it's an amazing. You were incredible in this interview,

David, I have to say. Dana, you really sparkled. All right, here he is, our main man. Main man, Lauren Michaels. Coenants got some money coming in. We first of all want to thank you for coming in. You're responsible for pretty much everything in my life. Yes. In the first world.

First of all, I'm bear-su and thank you. We had no plan for this podcast, this won't be in any way. No, we'll be, we'll cut this video. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. But two are surprised and delight. Everyone who was on the podcast started talking and saying nice things about you.

How much they love you. So we just thought, well, can we get him to come on? So here we are. Well, I haven't done anything else. That's the amazing part. Yeah, but as I said, I have a background of radio. Ready, chips. No.

The little crackers. Orange, good snacks. What will make the least noise? Because right now, we open the chips, make a lot of noise, and then not as much noise. Do you like flaming hot? I don't know if that's just reaching for Yes Don't worry about the noise and we'll

I'm sorry And there's pro team bars a first stock So here really stock just grab those or not I'll just talk to Dana for a while. Are you staying at the Beverly Hills Hotel? I am. Oh, and the Margarita rumors. They're doing this show, Bobkiss. Oh, okay.

Which is a... You have touchstones. One is the Beverly Hills Hotel, which you're a huge fan of. In Aspen, you stay at the... What? Aspen was more houses, I think. St. Bart's is another touch though. Yeah.

And of course, am I get it said? Yeah. I remember when I now Maine. Well, you did finally pull the trigger. Maine, Maine. I wasn't C.C. on that. So Maine. I'll show you pictures.

That's pretty far out there. I don't think you can control them. We talked about that last time. As you get a little older, you're pretty young. You want to get into the country and you want to get in wide open spaces. And you want to get to the landscaper for childhood. Yes.

And this is close to Canada, you can get without Courtney Canada. Oh, is that what it is? Nice. You get sort of, yeah, you're Canadian. So, and what part of Canada, just real quick? To Toronto. What part is this near or what part?

But you were sort of Toronto, am I right? Right. I told you Dana. But I left in 1972. It's changed. Yes. And was the reason we did Tommy Wayne Toronto because of that or was it a tax?

No, I think that was, Paramount was just, they would have done it in Budapest if it was cheaper. Yeah. That's usually where it moved. What was the cost of Tommy Boy versus Wayne's World 1? I just wanted to know about. We were 13-5 or something. Yeah, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long, long I think we're more like 25. Oh could have been it seemed the white light like that. 25 million no no 25 days of shooting Oh, yeah, very quick one take Penelope's phirus towards the end

When Howard Howard coach Ginger no hot coach Was they were doing the board and and Paramount person that I was giving us directions. If you can make this movie for 12, 5, I'll leave you alone. That was the whole idea. We had an extra day or two. At one point, the Rob Lowe character was going to have Dennis Hopper as a father. And so that there was a dynamic

between the two of them, which would play off in a sense of a counterpoint. And then they said, you have to don't have the extra two days. So, I'll that one on. He used Mike Mairas for his, we smooshed it into one character. that was Rob. Oh, okay. He was great. Kurt Fuller. That was, and it ended up being lightened in a bottle. I only saw the previews, and I remember, been told before where the Paramount guy came back. We did the previews. Mike and I were, because that's what they're watching ourselves.

We're kind of depressed. I'll probably just say, it's God, Ghostbusters numbers. Let's eat. Right? That's what he, is that right? We were a restaurant. We were, okay. No, I was, you remember, because I was older. Um, I was, we were, we did for sentimental reasons, a preview and weigh New Jersey, because it had a multiple. That's where it was. Yeah. And then we went to a restaurant that was, it was happening in Soho,

which had a tin roof. And uh, everybody was ordered. Mike was in Soho, which had a tin roof. And everybody was ordered. Mike was in complete depression, because it wasn't the movie he thought he wanted, you know, it was all that. And he said, it got an 86, let's eat. 86. Okay. I missed the box.

I think those of you at home is higher than 80. There's two boxes. So it means more people are in the box. Two boxes. And also that it added up to that. It could be 88. It could be 91, but it was something where he thought, why would you want to keep talking? Oh, we got it. We won. We won. We won. We won. Take the win. And that was sort of it took a while to get used to it. And then he went into the editing room, but it was all there.

It was all there in that first cut. Part of it was just how fast it moved and the exuberance of it. And as I say, most people in America, when they're choosing any kind of entertainment, the phrase looks like fun is the most. And I figured out for myself later why so popular. I thought the two so-called losers in town, they dropped AMC Pacer, Loverly parents, are having way more fun than anyone in the town.

So that's like, who wouldn't want to live in that world? I want to be more. I remember you took me to Chili's after it. And it wasn't quite as nice. Tommy Boyz made for 35 million. No, some of you always probably around the same. Same thing. Well, it was always, the studio was always, you know, these movies have to be made for a price, you know, 15, 20 million dollars, a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. Then you go, well, we can do this for 20. No, no, I said 15 to 20. We're

going to aim for 15, but we may end up at 20. But once that happened, you were left alone. I think because nobody considered it important, which was a big plus. Yeah. And I could watch Tommy Boy and be really comfortable because I'm not wearing or seeing myself. Yeah.

And just thought it was the start of David's film career, but for Chris, it feels to me like it captured Chris completely. Yeah. Like his physical comedy, I got to the sentimental side, which was kind of him fighting for the walk through the fact you're in the scene and the boat and the bagpipes. Yes, without a scratch. Yeah, it's like three amigos.

It just gets shinier and brighter as a Paul itself. And also, they're meant to be fun. Yeah. It's only being in everyone, I think when somebody asked me, in an interview about a Wainsville, what were you waiting for? And I said, you know, really a confection, you know, because I said, in a Mars Brothers movie, no one cares for the Fidonia won the war. You know, it's war. It's going to go 80, 90 minutes. It's going to be as funny as it can be that it's going to a good night. And everybody's happy.

And so the idea that you're going to be tied to a plot and have to stick with scenes that didn't work because they're going to tell the story as opposed to, you know, Wayne's Rose Boy has showboy, there's the showboy, he's girlboy, I mean, listen, Tommy Boy, we always say, like if you went and pitched a movie of two guys selling break fans in Ohio,

yeah, we gotta do this. Of course. It just really, I think it was Lauren saying, these two are kind of funny around the office and I think you told the Turner, Sponning Terry Turner said, can you write something about that? And it was, you would get

how we were goofy around the office and then said, if you can, and they did a good job of doing that and you can steer it. And there's the moment or two in coneheads too. Yeah. Yeah, but you're already established. Yeah.

And Mike, despite the best efforts of, you know, Mike and Dana was in Wayne's world. And, uh, we had a bit, we had a bit of competition. That's what Paul said. I didn't know he heard cheers of the audience. And then they put, yeah, put them. Yeah.

But we've lived long enough to be very good friends. Yes. Love each other. ¿Hay cosas que te dejan pensando como por qué los vostezos son contagiosos? Pero, MailChimp, no. MailChimp analiza los datos de millones de correos electrónicos para ofrecer recomendaciones personalizadas para mejorar el contenido de tus correos electrónicos, segmentar tu público, entre muchas cosas más, adivina menos y vende más con IntuitimailChimp. La marca número 1 en email y marketing y automatización.ization. It started with Emilio Simp.com, based on public media,

and the brand is competing with global numbers of clients in 2020-22. One thing I part of my notes to ask you, why did you cast me? What was originally at the show? Yeah, on SNL. Because there was no GARTH. There was only way

I mean why does you cast me on SNL? That was a huge spot, you know, and then you took me and you didn't take a lot of brilliant people so I'm very grateful for it but I didn't see Jim Kerry Of Frank and Davis. Oh, someone else They said it's too big for you. Yeah, I mean, I mean, looking back at it. I mean, should have been making the decision. Well, I think you did cast it.

I don't know of like a situation comedy, but like it was different. Love it was a flavor, fill was a role. And somehow I fit in there and you rolled the dice. And I'm ever grateful for it, but it seems at the time I did not have a lot of confidence. I didn't know what was going to happen. You know, well, I think love is was there from the year before.

Yeah, that was the king pin. That's like some cruel thing. You burnt the cast. Yes, exactly. Everyone got burnt up in a fire. I think that was Franken. I think it's wrong. I just wanted to skim that sketch.

I didn't really. Yeah. Yeah. But I sort of knew you'd fit from God. What was the name of the club? You saw, well that was, yeah. For people that don't know, but now I'm here with Lauren. I had auditioned other times.

They said you were coming around. I didn't want to do it at the comedy store and then Rosalind was there. I got 40 minutes. I'm waiting to go on. First of all, I'm terrified. Right. Because it's a dream, like everyone else.

You come through the door, there he is. Then Brandon Tarvonkov, they head of the network. Tarvonkov, and then I'm like, oh, fuck, I'm so nervous, and then share. And they sat down in the club. Now welcome, Daniel Florey. You know I'm admitting these? So I was probably my only night with the two of them.

But I'm not. But I got back up. But we were somewhere and they, I think, Sharer said, where are you going? And I said, well, I'm going to go see somebody. I think it's good. And the club, oh, all come. And then Brandon went, well, I want to go to, or he was first, I don't remember the order.

But and they all laughed. But that wasn't the deciding factor. It was just that you had clear, I mean, you were funny. And you could never much, anytime you talk about funny for longer than a minute, you're not funny. It's not good. It's still whimsical that I found myself to that place at that time. No, and also I'd never been there before, probably since.

And as I said, I've been there with those people either, but I do know Cher, I guess. And when I've run into her, she says, I was there when you were just going to. Yeah, no knowing, she didn't. Her lap was so open and nice and she just wanted. Everyone to win. Yeah, also if Dane is doing, I'm don't mean to jump in, but if he's doing church lady, chopping broccoli,

things that literally in your head, you can probably just pluck and put right on the show. There's first show. Nothing. Yeah, the different. The whimsy of the church lady, because it was part of the set, is probably five minutes of the character. And then I remember, let OK, we'll try it. Who knew?

And I worked with your ex-wife, Rosie Schuster, for a month. You assigned me to a writer. She was the one who said, church jack, because we thought of a talk show. And I remember bringing the two dresses into you. One was a little more feminine and you just pointed to the one we used. And then as it turns out,

it was such a great thing for the show because I had Phil and Jan coming in and being brilliant at Andor Sigourney Weaver, the first show, and Victoria Jackson. And it was perfect. And then Sean Penn. And also Sean Penn. And then Sean Penn and then all these religious scandals. So again, that was a freaky, lucky thing for all of us.

I think it was like very often with the character, you have to find, at least my end of it is, you have to find the context. With Mike and you in Wayne's world, it was like he had a very specific look in mind, which was the basement. The stairs coming down nor played the mother. Yes. Hair metal thing. The guard thing was, I think you should do it with Dana and somehow that evolved. That was your suggestion. Yeah, for sure. And then the moment it worked, it was

like on a 10 to 1. And it played pretty well. Because it was fresh and had energy and it looked like fun. And it was. And then after that, Mike had been at the show three months, four months. Yeah, something like that. But after that, it was like, why are we in that corner? Right. And you're in that corner because you designed a set that had to scares whatever. And what ever it is. And you're as far from the audience as possible.

So from that point on, I think it moved to home base. And that was like, yeah, we don't need the background. Which is incredibly powerful. Which is right in front of the audience. You can really time the laughs. Where the monologues. Where the monologues, I'm just telling people at home. Yeah, where it's like, right at the audience, right down the camera.

And as the warm up, which was designed a certain way, it is still the same. You're moving down, somebody does, now it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, does, now it's, it's Che. Right. And then Keenan comes out and sings the girls. And then you start of, the light starts to go down and you know you're looking at that spot. Yeah. Or you're looking where the cold opening is going to be. And so you get a sense of where the focus is. It's just amazing, Lauren. You're still there, and I've come back a few times and did update or whatever. You can't get past it. I mean, you'll never forget it, and I think that for all of us who are unknown, go on the show, and for the audience to see Will Ferrell do what he did, see how David evolved.

It's such an amazing, visceral experience. There's nothing like it, and the music, and the way you kept it the same is extraordinary that you didn't let any regime Trick you out and change it. What's interesting is there's four new people coming in It's amazing because of the pandemic We couldn't let there was no place for anyone to go so we kept adding people because you have to add people every year And suddenly we have like 23 people you have to add people every year. And suddenly we have like 23 people all the time.

Because it's telling. And everybody's angry. And they're not playing to them. And so, and then people left. And so it was so much fun seeing these new people because they're exactly where you should start. They've never been on television. They don't know.

They don't generally. They don't generally, if they have representation, it's primitive. And you just sort of see them and there's like that exuberance and excitement. And they're just shows and that energy shows. And so when you, when you start with people who've never been on television and the audience gets to be part of that process and live with them through it. Then I used to say, I'm not going to say it now again, that the four longest years of your life are high school. Yes.

You don't have any money, you don't have a car. Any girls. And so staying up late with friends or staying up late by yourself to like one o'clock in the morning is like a really exciting thing. So when people say the best cast that ever did it, generally it's when they were in high school. Totally.

So if they, you know, and they go, oh, but no, the best is you know, you and Harpman and you, you know, when they go and follow, and you go and we're in high school. Yeah, you know, I mean, yeah and you, you know, when you go and follow it. And you go in when you're in high school. You go, oh, I know. Yeah, no, there's just no evidence. It's true. And you have the time.

And you talk about with your friends, that's the only game in town. Yeah. Especially back then, like that. I mean, there's more competition now and it's great that you're still crushing it because with so many things to choose from that was, I think when you have a transition kind of now

where some are leaving that, you know, more familiar faces Yeah, it doesn't mean anyone's not as good. It's just some people get more opportunities coming out And the same thing happened it took me longer to get my footing when we had Dana Unfortunately, it was just too good. It was oh no, and I was like that and still are came in at the same time as Mike Yes, but he sort of saw this could be a long wait Yes, but he sort of saw this could be a long wait Because Sandler everybody was there and it was killing it and

And what was interesting about that time was the only people who liked it with the audience critically wasn't It's golden age now. Yeah, we were like in your role bar still sports said we were a great cat We were the best cast and then you back then they were like this is the worst bunch of assholes Untalented on when we had on a given night back in the late 90s or early 90s sorry late 80s We would have toonses. I'm talking about just if we have a sprockets Maybe I do Bush or Perot or McLaughlin group Mike might do Talking and lady whatever it was, but we had so many when the sandwiching a song, David would do a Hollywood minute.

So there was a given moment at a time you must have felt like she had a lot of and you know we're doing that documentary on Jim Downey, which I talked to him for four hours. It's only going to take ten years, but we're going to use three minutes or something like that, but my son, Eddie is working on it. We're going to take ten years. But we're going to use three minutes or something like that. But my son Eddie is working on it. Right. He grew up kind of on the show, et cetera. But it doesn't really know that period.

No. And he keeps showing me things from that period that are like hilarious. And one of them, you showed me recently, was Perot on Larry King. And it's so funny. It's an perfect, perfect downy piece. You're created in Will Will was great to Larry King. He's not known for it. And there was Chris Katan in there.

It was people, their platforms were very exotic and Ross Perot was the same old friend because he's the same old girl we'll ever time. And we're gonna do this, can I finish one time? Or are you gonna keep talking all the time? I mean, the rhythm of that was so infectious. I never had more fun doing a character. You could do that speed.

You always had that ability. That was something I saw in the audition. You could move something that fast. If I can catch a wave with it rhythmically in my head, and I know that it's like casting a line to the audience, can I finish one time? Yeah. And I know that hook is my go-hooks. You're gonna like it right now because you can't not laugh.

Because that's why I'm talking. Can you figure it that way? With the texture. Exactly like a song. Yeah. It's tripped. But you were, you auditioned with music. I did have, I did have a little piano thing and stuff.

But I'm not recommend that because it's really telling us about the safe for that reason. The other night, just I was at the improv doing a benefit and I'm kind of bombing, I mean, I'm doing okay. Then I go fuck it. I go, I did a thing on SNL called Chop and Broccoli. It's packed.

So I do it and give it all to my all in the piano, standing ovation. So I should never go on and do anything else. It killed. Yeah, I thought that started. I think they think it is because people ask me all the time. It was, we gave them a name. To me, it was just random, rock star. It was a called Derek something. Yeah, so it's bridge. It's a British, but it's not McCart. No, it's not McCartney. And then I buried it by, we did a sketch where the record company, it was a little too sophisticated, tells him he has to die because his record sales

will go up and look what happened to Jim Morrison and Hendrix, but I don't want to die. You know, it was one of those, and it laid there, but Chuck Rockley lives on. You know, Lauren, when you watch these auditions, it's interesting because I was newer to comedy. All I wanted to do was kill. Because my audition was different.

We've interviewed a lot of these people and I'm hearing a lot of them were at 8-H, which would be just horrifying. But, and it's dead silent. You know, when everyone's out there and shoemakers eating peanuts, you know, no one at that. It's like, hey, come down for the audition. It's tough to audition.

But why not? We're not too broadening a little bit of a writer. The thing was, I came in and Dennis, right before I walked on, people were catching rising star. You might have been there. I don't even know if you were there. You know, some writers came down and a handful as me, Rob Schneider and Tom Kenny, and we were just doing stand-up.

So we do it and Dennis Miller comes up before and he goes, hey, it's fun. You're going to bring the A game and I go, I mean, that's all the a god. I mean, I don't know might be a bee But it's saving my best is might be B and he goes yeah, I'm saving it for another audition For American idol so I go listen Yeah, and he goes you don't want to kill too hard throws a bread flag with these guys They don't want to look at some road hack and I go so don't do good. They're like David spade I go, Dennis don't do good, so good, but I realize now when I watch comics and stuff I look at writing so I can tell someone has game in

Two lines, you know, I mean it's like named that tune I go first line might be fluke and then the next joke and I go There's something going on here. And it's like you get an eye for it. So I think you guys all had that and I can watch someone and not see if they kill or not. I almost hear it. I just go, oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. So Dennis said later or maybe Downey said, no, we liked your writing. So I don't even know. I don't think we did that well, but that didn't matter. It was more like, oh, I liked the way you put that together or that thought or that, and that, I appreciate that. How would you describe that?

That sensibility that you look for. Well, what I think was happening then was, we had a kind of murderous row of people that were gonna be dominating for a long time. So you were gonna get to be Ross Probe but in the other debate. And the white shot. That, that was a white shot. He was going to come back.

I was going to come back. He was going to come back. He could do both parts. I saw David sitting in the corner dressed as Perot. And he looked so sad, but it was just for the white shot. It was a fluky thing. But yeah, that was, you did well. But what I'm getting at is that there's, you were Perot.

There's a thing, which I've done a bunch over the years, which is I'll bring someone and as a writer. You know they're gonna be cast eventually. You buy some time. But they won't go through that self-doubt. Why am I not getting on and people say, I'm on but I don't see enough, whatever. I added that, those.

Yeah, my stress. People, I'll talk to comedians who've auditioned and they tell me what they've auditioned with in the last five or eight years. And I won't tell them, but I'm thinking to myself, not gonna get it. And whether it was, like you're not afraid of any kind of humor,

but it was something that's got a logical, but it wasn't funny. And I could just tell it didn't fit kind of the frequency of you, Lord Michael's, and your lieutenants. There's a certain thing, and it's hard to describe it because it's got a wide band width, but there is something you can see it

it reads through and someone new puts in something and goes, oh, Jesus. And it's a little off-putting. Yeah, and it's a re-true is an honest room. Yeah, there's no Bernie's not there, you know, like so there's not, and the network's not there. There's no booming laugh, you know, like, so there's not, and the network's not there. There's no booming laugh, you know, from, so it's got, yeah, it didn't play. And same with the show, when something doesn't work, there are no laughs on the air.

So, yeah, who do you blame? That's the high water thing in the world, really. And also you feel you burned it. Yeah. But there are people like Bowen, I brought it as a writer. He's good. Uh, and there's, You want people to see how the process works. It's figuring it out those first few weeks that you know that's it and that's cut. You know like that and how fast it goes and costume changes and the Molly's pointing at it, align the change or the writer forgot to tell you.

I think Chris Rock ran into that problem of, you know, we were stressed that we, and firstly we were getting on fast enough, but Chris Rock comes in and they're like, you're at E. Murphy now and you're on in seven sketches. And Frank and Screamy, I don't know about a confederate. He's playing in general and he's going, oh, and I'm like, poor Rock, he's in too much.

Like it's too much right away. And here's the cards and here's going, oh, and I'm like, poor rock, he's in too much, like it's too much right away. And here's the cards and here's this. Well, and I think it got him off. It was a tough for a situation where the guy was one of the funniest people. Yeah, but you knew I'm at least I knew he was really good. Yeah, of course. Of course, but normally you get to develop in the background.

Right. I was watching a little bit. Phil and Jan and I were in the cold opening and I'd never done sketch comedy just stand up So my first and I wasn't I didn't realize later. I guess I knew I was before the model I but didn't I didn't know I was in the cold opening right that's how green I was we're just in the first one It was game show psychic. I don't know if it's Jack candy I would have a Jack candy Jack candy

So I would answer the questions and Phil was a perfect in Jan. And so we had no time to really acclimate, but it was kind of nice. Everyone was really involved. But this is something Higgins said, and I don't know if you made it, but that you basically wrote the constitution of Saturday Night Live.

And then you see all these incarnations. So I'm a baby boomer, I'm doing late 80s stuff. And then you, you're the constant. And then you're seeing what kind of will Ferrell stuff or Bill Hader humor and then Kate McGinnon and so you're adaptive in a sense you're observing so these new four people are you seeing something just a little 2022 by the way is from Arizona. Shut the fuck up.

And I said yeah he said yeah that's where David's face from. I thought he messed up. They told you Scott's they'll be we were a little we got only one but and also the changing culture of comedy But you're still there and you're adapting right? I mean yeah, and and I think The room is great You know and and in a day. You know,. Oh yeah, not so hollow ground. And it's a safe space.

So you kind of, people relax into it. I mean, it's scary for the auditions, of course. But it's also, at some point, you have to bat at Yankee Stadium if you're going to be the major leagues. So pretending that that won't exist and you go right from a club to on the air wouldn't work.

I know. Passing through that threshold because it's scary. And for you personally, because I always saw you kind of as a coach in a way, that so every, but every cast literally would just as like his calls for you. You're always doing sports metaphors.

I mean, you complimented me once, third person. And said, Lauren said you were reminded reminded him of Don Mattingley. So I was like, that I looked it up. Take it. But you, you, you see all these personalities come and go and have you gotten more stutter that is surprised you're, you kind of go, well, this cast member will be like this. I think this one's going to do well later. I mean, you must have some intuitive sense. Or is it all just sort of surprising sometimes? I mean, like of these four, you've just hired. You know, do you have sense of?

Maybe 10 years ago, somebody who was due to the network, but you know, like was a senior person. We were having dinner and he said, can I ask you an else question? That's not true. Well, that. Sure. No, it was great. He said, you know the update with Joe's and Che? Do you think that's working? And I said, no. He said, oh, you know. And I went, yeah, no, no, it's a, it's a thing of like the way I say, which is

unpleasant is that all babies are ugly unless they're your baby and after three months People say what a beautiful baby and you have to live through that period of people not being good Somebody blows a line somebody comes in on wrong foot somebody gets a Q late while he doesn't the card doesn't come up It's all that. And people go, I don't think that guy's that funny. And you go, no, he is. And I think when you see chemistry, and you sort of know they're going to work well together. Well, you, you know, Chris, you know, it was just there from the beginning. It was their off stage, but it was also very clear on camera. Well, it seems like the audience starts to discover you and like you because you get enough

bass hits and then you as a performer and David, we just get more confident and that feeds on itself. Also, you go from however successful you thought you were to famous and that transition is just different suddenly. In the first season, we had a limo for the host. That was the extent of our budget. At the party, John Blutcher would quite often go and sit with the host towards the end, and then as they were getting into the limo, so John would say say I'll drop you off. And he'd drop the hose to the hotel. And then he would just drive around all night with his face, like people limo's rarer then.

So who is that? And then he'd just be, you know, hand on the roof. Yeah, fame is, I like when we, first of all, we didn't have cars back then. Yeah, I wasn't that far along, but, to the set, which probably was better, to have because snowing and they're like, Marcy's like, Spade, are you here? I'm down at Manny Hennie, and I'm like, well, I'm trying to get there.

I live on it. But in Snowstorm, and then I get there, and then afterwards, we got to share, like, you know, made sense, cast to get the car. I'd share one with any feature player, whatever, and then a Norm would take Wonderlandic City. Anyway, where he did very well. Here we did very well. Marti's like, I'm telling Lauren immediately. But I was gonna ask you about,

he just said something about Farley. Do you remember the stupid story where Farley was dating Aaron at work? And I remember that. This is just someone that worked at the office, a very nice, very cute girl. And then on the break, they broke off and they came back and she started dating Steve Martin. And so Farley comes back and Wisconsin and Sandler and I are in the office and he goes,

so smoking. I hear Aaron's got a new fella. And I go, yeah, but he doesn't know. and he goes, so smoking, I hear Aaron's got a new fella. And I go, yeah, but he doesn't know. And he goes, well, he might be richer, but he's not funnier and he's not better looking and he's not more famous and we're like, ee, whoops, all three.

And he's like, shut the fuck off when I got. Ooh, you can't get better this time. That's the tough one. Yeah. So, so Lauren. Yeah, so Lauren. I have a lot of questions. Yeah, you're going ahead.

Look at this. It seems to me like you love it when the cast and the writers are melding. You don't want either side to really dominate completely. I think I made the choice because when I worked on the show Laughin, which was a number one show, in which I contributed almost nothing. That was just a writer.

But we were never at any read through. We didn't go to the studio. We were in the right room. Ryan Passett and then that's it. And other people would rewrite it. It wasn't what I thought working at a comedy show would be. And so the idea of elevating the writers, because every person from the network, particularly

everyone in the control room goes, oh, the writers can do no wrong. But the point with it is, that collaboration between a performer and a writer is and then the performers all learn how to write or at least how to recognize because the performance no rhythm and timing, you know, that's too many words cut that back Yeah, you know what I mean and the the writers theoretically thinking about content of sub-sort They don't like to trim. Yeah, I would tell Alan Jim I go with a bush cold opening, I go, you got to cut some words out, because I feel like I'm doing homework.

I can't do that. I feel like I have to get through it. And they did it, but yeah, I was. And they do it immediately, because they never talk back. They never ever argue with you or whatever. I didn't realize how much they all wanted to be on camera. Yeah. Till later.

And then you saw Change Bank with Jim. Change Bank was great. So we're telling this man commercial parodies were another secret weapon. I think there's just a thing of watching people on a stage really enjoying themselves. Feeling comfortable when that level of confidence is there and you know that you got it. It's just a different thing and it comes through at home. It's exhilarating. It's exhilarating.

On the 40th, because Mike and I were closing the show, which I want to talk about the 40th because I think it was sort of magic. But I said, we should either be very offended or very flattered because it's a four hour show and there we come as waiting cars. And we so happened to land it so beautifully. And Kanye West was there and we kept going to him and I felt so in the pocket but kind of had to fight the nerves because everyone was a famous person. Yeah. And that was a tough room. And yet and worse because the seating was screwed, well, I don't want to blame it. Well, the 40th was just a fly by the seat of your pants.

I mean, it wasn't a normal. For people who were still coming in, and I had to send Jimmy and Justin out. So they really took a bullet, you know, like those people were moving in, still seating and they're performing. Because the audience was only celebrities, right? Yeah. And it was live at eight o'clock

Yeah, former hosts for music Then you had a spillover room and people were mad there in the spillover room I don't think there's any plus ones. Yeah, it was just and the fifth youth will have no plus ones And fucking well, what do you think of the 50th? I I mean isn't it surreal? Yeah, I every now and then I Was in I had to give an Emmy speech and I hadn't planned on Congratulations, we win again. Yeah, no, it was like seven years in a row or something Six six still I'm thinking about next year. So you have to write this stuff down

I think I was going to say, you know, like I don't want to say, well, I'm getting ready for season 48 because it's insane. It's just you know what I mean. And yes, there was five years I wasn't there, you know, after the first five, but it's just sort of go, and the other thing that's familiar to people who are joining the show is the school year. That we come in in the fall, take Thanksgiving off, we take Christmas off,

Easter, whatever, and spring break, and then it's summer, and you go away. And the original plan was not. They never just wanted us to do three shows a month all year round. And I went, the seasons are going to run into each other. And also it's so such a pressurized environment. Speeding. You have to get away from everybody. I mean, for me, because I want to kill everybody by the end. Oh, yeah. And just go to, want to get out. Yeah. And so you go away and around the end of July, you go, yeah, I could go back start a mess. Yeah. Now, when the network or the, whoever,

the people you talk to about the show, try to convince you to do something. How do you, I mean, if you, how do you navigate that? I mean, have you ever lost an argument? Because it seems like you've have a winning percentage of keeping the show quality or it's it's it's it's it was anything to do with religion, particularly in the 70s. There was Jim used to write this thing called what if and we'll always be written in by a 10 year old paperboy from out to Nail and Oil. And what if Spartacus had a Piper Cup, you know, it's like those kind of things, then we do a reenactment of it. And at the time, a state senator in New York

in arguing for capital punishment said that if the Romans hadn't believed in capital punishment, there would be no Jesus and there be no Christianity which seemed insane to me, but I understood how you could get there launching. And the movie straight time, which was Justin Hoffman coming out of, you know, on parole and which was Justin Hoffman coming out of, you know, on parole and the, because, yeah, so I'm trying to get him back into crime.

So we did it as Jesus, you know, gets off with three to five. And then he, some of the apostles are going to come on one more miracle, no one gets hurt. Now, to me, it was just comedy, you know, but it really got, uh, and it, uh, and it, because you know, the relationship between me and Howard, because in the first five years, it'd be like, well, we can't just do pop. And I go, well, you know, we wanted to do this. And so that week we had Keith Jerk. And it was like Jasperino, and it was brilliant, but it was like now this sketch, which

was nine minutes for arguing up until air, really at 11 o'clock, which point it's like, I'm going, really? Yeah, you're denying the divinity of Christ, which I go, we're not really, it's, you know, also a commission. Yeah, and maybe that's the Canadian part, but all I'm getting at is it was like an absolute no, not even that. And I said to one of the network people who was in the room, who all spare, I just just bought, just this a fan to you. And he said, listen, Lord, I'd let you put cock sucking

on the air and we'll get a 40 share. So I'm the wrong guy to ask. This is really helpful, thank you. Yeah. Well, we had Mr. Clockworthy, I think, in the eighties on the moon. And in church chat, I think, in the A.C. On the... And in church chat, I initially had penis in there a lot, and he wanted some of those

cut out. And so I substitute for penis, I've put in more years robbing, boldness area. It was way more pornographic, but that's good, no penis. Yeah, and I think that for us, you know, because it's live, and because we were on the honor system at the beginning, we're still on it. And I was at the amuse the other night, a bunch of people, you know, said fuck and you go,

yeah, you're gonna get a laugh, you know, but it's not an age well, you know, and, but it is that move, the temptation to do it. And for us, we would lose affiliates, we would lose, I don't think you lose anything anymore, but there's something about, and when we were doing Wayne's World,

I'd been in 1990, I was in, anyway, I was on something that... A trip. There you go. And I got... I don't know. And I was with people that I wasn't normally with. And they talked about watching the show with their kids. Now, you know, in the 70s, it was...

Not supposed to trust anyone over 30. Right. And it was like, we were doing it for the people we knew. And we didn't think the rest of the country cared And it really didn't until mr. Bill showed up, but and They were talking about sitting there with their teenage daughter and how How

Greater was to both be laughing at the same things as if I'm anyway I didn't have kids so I it was kind of like that Oh, that and that was swing and fingers that we were doing that all the Madonna the Madonna. Oh, yeah with the Evian bottle right what was the movie truth or dare? Yeah, yeah, true to dare I was in a guitar Look at the look at the thing on that guy or whatever. Yeah, I was And Look at the thing on that guy or whatever. Yeah, I was it was and they were doing the every on bottle like like that. Yeah, she wanted to do it. Like yeah, if I had a 16 year old daughter, that'd be like really cringed tough and and

we do lots of things that are shocking, but I think you can't just be shocking. I think it's got to have hard rails and so it's so you can be a little naughty, but you can't just full blown. No, I mean, the penis sketch where we're all at a nudist colony. Fantastic piece. Fantastic piece really holds up. Didn't it take a year or two to get it on? We lost Toyota, we lost two, three big sponsors,

because people would boycott a dealership. And then- Because of that sketch. Yeah. And because people would say, you know, whoever has the dealership, Mississippi is getting, it's calling central headquarters, going, there's people outside here protesting

and why are you sponsoring that show? And then you guys had a new-to-call, and we had a slot so you'd see our legs. I think Hank's was on it. I think it was smuggle, right? Yes, it was a nice penis. How you doing? How's your penis? Are we said penis like intention like 300 times or something? Miss that one. No, I'm a right now. Yeah, I the reputation was where the laughs were Yeah, I don't think you got great laughs

No, I don't think so, but there are certain writers who never doubt your laughs. So you never don't hear laughs. Yeah, I know they go ahead. Kill. Yeah, actually, but like old ones like uh, cheeseburger, cheeseburger Pepsi Pepsi. Those, I don't think kill the first time around. I don't think colonets kills the first time around.

And you train the audience, this is good. And then later they go, oh, there's the best. And you go, it's very, very often the first one's not, not is good. And then later they go, oh, there's the best thing you go. It's very often the first one's not not a hit. But we did the very first show. We're still trying to find out what areas of the studio had sounded. And we were on there. There was a piece that Rosie wrote called B hospital. And it was a maternity hospital for bees. So the bee, apparently, did the costumes and they were great to be costumes. And they're just men pacing. And then every time then there was a come out and say, it's a worker. And it was just that. It's a worker. Oh, yes, worker. And then it was, it's a drone. Oh, it's a drone. Yeah. Anyway, it played to silence because you couldn't hear it. It was in the park. Oh, it's terrible.

So the only note we got from the network was the bees thing didn't work. So don't do that anymore. So the second show the bees came on and tried and then Paul Simon was hosting. So no one of the bees has cut because it didn't work. The third show they snuck on, it was sketched with Rob Runner and Penny Marshall and then there was a long more and more of their people in the back or bees, you know, it's like, yeah, yeah, that was a big thing. And then Rob went into long speech about how the bees didn't work, stuff, money, and then, and then, Volusche did that variation on that speech from Billy Jack, of like, you know, you have Hollywood writers, you have this, you come here, and we, you know, and they kind of walked off to one

tin soldier, you know, like a one tin soldier. And so that was then the bees there. That's what we loved about that show. Yeah. Because anarchy and it was so different. Yeah. And also don't tell us what's funny. All right guys, that was part one with Lauren and we're gonna do the whole part two next week. This has been a podcast presentation of Cadence 13. Please listen, then rate, review, and follow all episodes. Available now for free wherever you get your podcast. No joke, folks. Flying the Wall has been a presentation of Cadence 13, executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Chris Corqurin of Cadence 13 and Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment.

The show's lead producers Greg Holtman with production and engineering support from Serena Regan and Chris Basil of Cadence 13.