Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Alma 23-29 Part 1 • Lori Denning • July 8-14 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: July 3, 2024

Can people change? Professor Lori Denning brings to life the story of the Anti-Nephi-Lehis through understanding the power of poetry, covenant, and conversion to the gospel of Jesus Christ.SHOW NOTES/TRANSCRIPTSEnglish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM28ENFrench: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM28FRPortuguese: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM28PTSpanish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM28ES YOUTUBEhttps://youtu.be/Jvd4GbV8BNkALL EPISODES/SHOW NOTESfollowHIM website: https://www.followHIMpodcast.comFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookWEEKLY NEWSLETTERhttps://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletterSOCIAL MEDIAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastTimecodes00:00 Part I  - Professor Lori Denning00:46 Background to the chapters03:34 Bio of Professor Denning04:28 Come, Follow Me Manual05:46 Professor Denning shares a story about volleyball08:39 Can people change?10:23 Mormon’s teaching moments12:53 Power of stories on the human brain16:54 Alma 23 - Literary techniques18:49 Alma 23:1-2 - Resumptive repetition23:15 Powerful first words and difficult missions27:04 Alma 23:3 - King converted through love and a literary motif32:47 Gathering Israel35:21 Alma 23:6-7 - Never fell away after conversion40:47 Professor Denning shares a personal story of a new ward43:25 Alma 23:13, 25 - Laid down weapons45:44 Abraham Lincoln story49:20 Alma 24:7-16 - a speech and a new identity52:18 A name change56:33 Nicknames58:02 Alma 24:16-18 -Burying swords1:00:25 Professor Denning shares a story about using her powers for evil1:06:15 Living in contention1:09:00 -  End of Part 1 - Professor Lori DenningThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Hello, my friends, welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name's Hank Smith, I'm your host. I'm here with my humble Seeker of Happiness co-host, John, by the way, and our guest, Professor Laurie Denning. John, let me talk to you first here. Alma 23 through 29, what comes to mind when you think of these chapters? There's a lot of things. One of my favorite metaphors ever, the idea of burying our weapons of war is a really cool idea in here. I also think we have Ammon's amazing mission and then we have, boy, not only what happens

to the converts here that is difficult, but the missionaries too. This earth life is a tough neighborhood, but we see how they all come through it and end up rejoicing at the end. There's a lot of highs and lows in discipleship in these chapters. John, like I said, we have Professor Laurie Denning joining us. We're in Alma 23 through 29 today. What are we going to do? Where are you going to take us? Thanks, Hank. I think we're going to cover a lot of ground. There are some great stories in here. If we break it up into two parts, that'll really help.

What I hope to do is review the stories of joy of these missionaries like John outlined for us. The first half, we're going to go through all the stories, and that's what you alluded to with bearing the weapons and all the things that happened to the converts. And then in the second half, we're actually going gonna go to the missionaries talking about their missions. It really comes back to a word that's used over and over again, similar to what the title that you gave to our humble seeker is joy.

As much as there's gonna be some tragedy and some really terrible things in this, Mormon picked these to show us the joy that comes in following the savior. We had a lot of fun with Lori last year. Where were we, Lori? Yes. Philippians.

Philippians. That's what it was. Philippians and Colossians. Yeah. Oh yeah. We should link that in our show notes. We laughed really hard and I think you brought a Roman helmet. Oh, yes.

Thank you. I mean, I've obviously have a thing now, so I wanted to make sure that we do historical assessments so heavy. if you can see it. I am wearing a helmet. This helmet's actually called a morion. Morion. You'll see it like the conquistadors, but we're going to talk about their weapons of war.

So I may have brought a few weapons. Like most women, I have quite a collection of arms and armor. So I brought some of those. If you're online, if you're listening to it, imagine a helmet and a sword. of arms and armor. So I brought some of those. If you're online, if you're listening to it, imagine a helmet and a sword. All I brought was my humble sneakers and you brought a helmet and a sword. We have a lot of props today.

Fantastic stories. These are some of the most powerful, the most memorable, poignant, tear jerking, heroic, exciting stories in the whole of Book of Mormon. I mean, I don't know how I was so lucky to get these chapters, but they are fantastic. I'm pretty excited. And I won't wear the helmet the whole time, but I might put it on a few times. one and part two, we hope everyone will listen to both parts. I talked to our listeners who say, I love this one. And I said, what did you think of part two? And they kind of look at me like, okay. Hey, that was too much of you guys. I just need to, you gotta go the distance. Well, my very favorite chapter of all scripture of all canon is Alma 29. We're saving the best for last. So stick around to hear why of all the super nerdiness

of all the stuff that I've done in my whole life, this is truly my favorite chapter ever. Yeah, wonderful. Make it through part two, everyone. John, we talked about how we had Lori on last year, but let's introduce her again for those who weren't with us. Yeah, she's a well-known helmet collector and she brought one last year too, a different

one. Professor Lori L. Denning is a disciple of Christ and a card-carrying scripture nerd. She's pursuing her PhD in ancient scripture at Claremont Graduate University with a master's degree in theology from Gonzaga University. She has written three books, including the Real Heroes series and also teaches at BYU. She appears as a frequent podcast guest and hosts the video series called The Bible Brief. And I'll tell you, Hank, I was looking forward to this because I remember how much fun we had last time. So really glad to have you back, Lori.

Lori Smedley I'm glad to be here. And I'm going to start saying helmet collector and all of my bios from now on. So thank you, John. Laurie, let me read from the Come Follow Me manual. Let's jump in, see where we're gonna go. Here's what it says. It has three opening paragraphs that I love. It says, Do you sometimes wonder whether people can really change? Maybe you worry about whether you can overcome poor choices you've made or bad habits you've developed, or you may have similar worries about loved ones.

If so, the story of the anti-Nephite Lehi's can help you. These people were the sworn enemies of the Nephites. When the sons of Mosiah decided to preach the gospel to them, the Nephites laughed them to scorn. Killing the Lamanites seemed like a more plausible solution than converting them. But the Lamanites did change. Through the converting power of Jesus Christ, they were once known as a hardened and ferocious people, but they became distinguished for their zeal towards God. In fact, they never did fall away. Maybe you have some thoughts or actions to change or weapons of rebellion to lay down, or maybe you need to be a little more zealous towards God. No matter what changes you need, Alma 23-29 can give you hope that

through the atoning power of Jesus Christ, long lasting change is possible. So well said, and I can think of things that I would love to change. That does give hope. Laurie, where do you want to go here? Where should we start? Lori Satterthwaite Thanks. I thought we could start with a story. And I'm going to leave it a little bit of a cliffhanger. Just hold on. And at the end of this, we'll come back around and it may make sense. But when I was younger, I was 15, 16. I was about in 10th grade. And I signed up for the volleyball team. And at that point, I had made the varsity soccer team and varsity softball team already. So I thought I was this really great athlete as a young, as a young high school student.

You can't see me very much, but I am short and not very tall. And I have a vertical jump of about two inches even today. So I'm not a natural born volleyball player, but in my mind, I was this great volleyball player. Most of you know, I am an identical twin, so my twin and I both signed up for volleyball and we had been JV, the junior varsity the year before, the junior team, and we make it. We make varsity. And about a week into the program, we get dropped down to JV because a friend of ours transferred from another school. She was an amazing athlete. They needed another slot. Instead of dropping one of us, they dropped both of us. Well, my twin and

I didn't take it very well. We got back to the JV squad and we moped around and we scuffed our feet and we hung our head and we complained and we looked over at the other team and we looked at our friends who were the second squad on the varsity and we're like, we're better than them. And we complained and complained. About the end of that week, our coach pulled us aside. And I'm like, finally, we get to tell our righteous indignation how we had been unfairly cut not for the brilliant girl, but those other teammates, we're certainly better than them. And we already made it. And you know, what dishonor. As a 15, 16 year old, this was a super big deal. I look back now and think,

I can't believe I was so worried about it. But I couldn't wait till the coach, I'm gonna talk to you two after practice. We go back in the back room and she's like, I am so disappointed in you two. You need to figure it out. And you're like, wait, this might've changed. She's mad.

Our coach is mad at us. And she proceeded to tell us, look, I had a choice of who to bring down to the team. And I thought you two would be great influences on the team. You're great athletes, you're fun, and you'll play every game on the varsity you wouldn't play any games.

I thought you would really help the team. You're better than this. I know your parents and I expected more out of you. I was absolutely crushed. I remember being absolutely blown away and just hanging my head. She gave one more statement. She said, think about it tonight. But if you want to be on this team, you need to come back and you need to get rid of your bad attitude and you're going to play on the team. Otherwise, don't come back tomorrow. I had a lot of thinking to do. Was I going to change? Was I going to say, am I going to play with the JV or am I going to say, yeah, I should have been on that varsity team? That is a little bit about what I think is going to happen in these stories. People have a chance to change. Are they going to change? Do they believe they're going to change? How do they

actually affect that change in their life? Now, they're not playing JV volleyball in San Diego, California. They're doing something so much greater. I haven't had experiences quite as serious as the people that we're going to meet. But that same idea, I think we look at the stories of when the Lord has invited us to change and invited us to become something greater and what will we choose and how do we make that change? These ideas are told in stories. The nerd word obviously is called narrative, right? We say they're a narrative, but they're stories, right? We don't get a laundry list of commandments. We're gonna get these stories of these people. And they are historical events. But Mormon, if we think about it, has seen our day and said, this is what we need to see. These are stories that are just like our stories. I want us

to look at the stories and say, how am I like this? Here's one of the ways that I hope that we can do it as we go through these stories. And some of these stories you'll know pretty well, some of them you might not be as familiar with, but they are awesome. As we go through, I want us to look at what's called point of view. And that's which character are you seeing the story through? When I was a kid,

I always saw myself as the hero of the story. And as I've gotten older, I realized I'm a little bit more villainous than some of these stories. I'm not as good as I thought I was. In these stories, you're gonna see people from all over. You're gonna see the Lamanites, you're going to see people from all over. You're going to see the Lamanites. You're going to see the missionaries.

You're going to see people that are converts. You're going to see the Nephites that are going to accept them back in and everybody in between. That's what I'm hoping to do is take these stories and look at them through those lenses and maybe through fresh eyes and say, what point of view are we going to do? Awesome. We could also take the point of view of Mormon, who's writing the story and seeing it from a distance.

It's a really good segue. Thank you, Hank. There are some of these literary techniques, and I want to try to call them out. That's one you'll see Mormon talks, and you know when he's talking, when he uses this phrase called, thus we see,

and he has about four of these in this scriptural block. It's like a little aside. When a movie or something, they turn to the camera and says, and thus we see, he makes a little conclusion. These kinds of conclusions are popular in scripture. You see them in the gospels and John. And this is when the people didn't understand that Jesus was doing this. You see him in Nehemiah. You see him all over the place that they do them. But Mormon, Hank, to your point, does them a lot. He's carefully selected these scriptures,

and then in case you missed the point, he writes a little, thus we see. A great challenge or a great project to do with your family or yourself as you're studying, come follow me, is go look for them and study them and see what conclusions Mormon is making from the story that he chose. Alma is also writing most of this and Mormon's picking Alma's writings. You can also say, even though Alma isn't in all of the story, Alma the Younger is also one of the narrators of the story. He's telling his story and his

friends' stories. That's a really great way to do it. And it kind of enlivens the story. Let me look at it through a perspective. Some editors try to be invisible, so you don't know that they're there. And maybe that's the goal of some kind of editing. But when we get a thus we see, we're getting Mormon going, this is why I put this in here.

John, you're right on there. Mormon frequently tells us, I can only write a hundredth part of what I have. Right? And sometimes I think you could have written us two hundredth if you'd stopped telling us you could only write one hundredth part. You could have slipped in something right there. Yeah. When he tells us a story, in theory, he didn't tell us 99 other stories.

Each part of this has got to stand out. I noticed, Laurie, that we're flying through history for a while. And then we get to Alma. It's the longest book, but it only covers 40 years of history, where you had a tiny little book of Omni that covered hundreds of years of history. Here's this book where we really slow down. It's the first 40 years of the reign of the judges. And I guess that switch in government really

changed society quite a bit. It is. It's kind of a slow mo. We zoom in and we get to know these characters. I think one of the things that's beautiful and powerful about the Book of Mormon is how much we actually get to know these people, and we get to hear their inner thoughts, and they're going to write and tell us some of these things. And they're going to do some of them on poems, and they're going to do some of them in their journals and speeches, and we'll do some of that in part two. That's a little unique. A lot of times, like John said, we don't always hear the voice or the narrator. And this one, you hear Mormon, but you also hear Alma. you hear each of their personalities and what they're concerned about. And that is beautiful and powerful. I wonder why it's so different, except that it changes me. I get so much more involved in the story. There's a study,

and we'll link it down in the show notes because I really wanted to point this out, but there is a neuroscience on how stories work. Before we get into the story, this is pretty cool. All the ways that the Lord could choose to convey an idea to us, he's chosen stories. Stories make up probably 50, 60% of scripture rather than poetry or speeches or some other kind of type of literature. Stories in this neuroscience, this Dr. Zaks did a bunch of MRIs and they did all these studies of people listening to stories and it happens only here. It doesn't happen if I give you a laundry list of thou shalt not, but you envision yourself experiencing the story and your brain acts the same whether you're hearing and envisioning

a story as much as you're doing it. So like an athlete who's visualizing crossing the finish line or throwing a basketball, you are visualizing it. By experiencing these events with Alma or with Anti-Nephi Lehi, the king, or with whomever in the story, our brain doesn't know the difference. So we are becoming stronger and better, and we become more

like them when we put ourselves in the events of the story. That's why we slow down. I think that's why we get this awesome peer into their souls and hear their thoughts and slow down and go through their lives with them so that we can become more like Alma and Ammon and Amulek and Lemona and the oh so pithy name of a king, Anti-Nephi-Lehi in the story. I have learned by sad experience that if I can tell a story, I don't have to say you should, you ought. We need to tell a story of somebody who embodies a principle or a trait. And then we can all just listen and go, wow, we will supply our own. I should be that way. If you're saying it, it doesn't work as well. But we love to hear stories of somebody that's heroic. And then we can go, there's some traits in there that I'd like.

So that's why I like stories. That's fantastic. Laurie, I think you're right on here. I can remember stories I've been told decades ago. That's why I loved John, by the way, talks. I think everybody loved what was it? John mafia to Mormon. I still can remember that.

Mario Fassione. Stories that President Monson told. And of course, the Savior's parables. They have a lasting power. Whenever I train teachers, I'll say that. If you have a choice between a lecture and a story, go with the story. In Speaking to Youth, I've started to get into the lecture mode and you can kind of see the energy drop and all of a sudden you start telling a story and that energy picks back up and they're engaged in, oh, you're telling me this story. And even youth years later will say, I remember that story. That story. Today's about our conversion, about being true to covenant. And we can say,

I've been practicing all along because I've been reading their stories and I want to be like them. Maybe we should jump into the story. Let's jump into 23. There are lots of different ways the scholars approach these. Mine is obviously what we call literary theory or literary criticism. And that is how stories work. I'm gonna pop in occasionally and show you some of these that you might not have seen them before. There are little techniques that authors use, things like repetition and rhyme and things,

and there's some weird ones that you might not have heard about, but like we just said, thus we see, you'll see that one. Some patterns, and I wanna point them out, because once you see them, they can become more powerful. There's one kicker though, one cool thing about how literary techniques work. You don't have to know them for them to work. They just work. When we tell a story, we love a story. But if you tell a good story, we just know it's a good story. But if we said, well, why was that a good story? You might not know. I'm going to point some out. I think it's a great way to study scripture. I think Mormon is a brilliant

author. He is using these to help us remember, to help them sink deep into our hearts, to touch us on an emotional and spiritual level. I want to call out some of them. Also, as a nerdy aside, I love that we find these ancient scriptural ideas and techniques in the Book of Mormon. There's no way that Joseph Smith would be like, hey, in 65 working days, I snuck all these in. And I didn't even know they existed and neither did literary theorists until 20 years ago, but I knew them and I snuck them in. No, we don't get a testimony of the Book of Mormon because they're here, but I sure

love that they're here and find them endlessly fascinating. If I'm on the show, the nerd word of the day is literary. I made a chart of these as well, of some things that I found in the last few days studying this. There's not certainly all of them and we'll put it in the show notes. So everybody knows, John, I don't think I've said this in a while. Come over to the website, followhim.co, followhim.co and you'll find all the show notes over there along with a bunch of extras. So come on over. Let's jump to Alma 23. Let's do one and two.

And when we read it, I want to tell you two things I want you to watch for as we go through it. The first thing is it starts actually what's called a resumptive repetition. He's going to say there was this proclamation. We're picking up in the middle of a story. A resumptive repetition. He's gonna say, there was this proclamation. We're picking up in the middle of a story. A resumptive repetition is a little clause that's like the parentheses is ending and you're going back to the sentence. And there was a proclamation that the Lamanite king was gonna make. And then the chapter before it was like half of it is this aside, blah, blah, blah, and this other thing happened. Okay, and back to the story. And let's jump in and just find out what's going on. Alma 23 verse 1, behold, now it came to pass that the king of the Lamanites sent a

proclamation among all his people that they should not lay their hands on Ammon or Aaron or Omner or Himni, nor either of their brethren who should go forth preaching the word of God and whatsoever place they should be in any part of their land. Yea, He sent a decree among them that they should not lay their hands on them to bind them or to cast them into prison. Neither should they spit upon them, nor smite them, nor cast them out of their synagogues, nor scourge them. Neither should they cast stones at them, but that they should have free access to their houses and also their temples and their sanctuaries. We made a proclamation of a long list of things that you guys don't do. What do we think was probably happening to them?

Every one of these things. Every one of them. The English here is really clunky, very listy. You could say, comma, and make a list. Here's a literary term for you. This is called anataxis. It's when you make a list like that and you put like and in between. So or or so in the first one, you'll see the brothers on Ammon or Aaron on or Omnur or Himni. You could have just said the brothers or you could have just had a comma, but they put the or in there. You'll see it with a lot with and and there are a lot of examples of these. And then you're going to see it again with this list of all

the things they shouldn't be doing So they sent a decree and they should not lay your hands or bind them or cast them or spit on him nor smite them Nor cast them nor score jump and you're like, okay got it. No got to do a few more. No cast stones That's that listy thing. I sense in this one the repetition is You know, he could say, don't hurt them. You don't get to hurt them. But this is a list. And then each one becomes more pronounced with that little conjunction. Yeah, you're exactly right. It's the rhythmic effect kind of does an emphasis. It's maybe

this was the law. And we had to be very specific because they were jerks and they were doing all of those things to the foreign missionaries. What I think it does is it emphasizes and it builds. It's like, wow, this was really terrible. In this example, they were doing this and this and this and this. One way to get the feeling, remember, we're going to get the feeling of these stories so it sinks into our heart and it changes us, is to read it out loud. Read it out loud.

Read it out loud because you'll hear it and you'll feel it a little differently than if you read it in your head. Now you're a Hebrew Bible expert. If I remember right from our old Testament year, they often told us they're meant to be heard. It changes the feel of scripture. When you realize a lot of this was meant to be orally transmitted. Is that fit here, Laurie?

Laurie Allen Yeah, Hank, you're so humble. Of course, that is the answer and you know that too, because you're an expert as well. But remember, it's usually in a congregation or in community. They're read out loud, and then you hear them and then you remember them. So one thing it does is it gives the emotion of it. And it also it helps you remember it. You remember them because it's got this little rhythm to them. And let's say you're sitting down on the bench and you're a deacon or whatever of the day and you're sitting down there, you're like, and smite them and fit them and fit them and fit them. You're like, yeah, I got the list, right? I'm going to go home

and I'm going to smite and beat you. You know, you're like, you know, you just know that's what you'd be thinking. So yeah, so they would have been meant to be read out loud. It also helps it to be heard. It can convey your voice to the back of the room. In fact, Hebrew and things like Arabic are actually chanted. They're sung. So they actually have a chant sang to them. The language itself has that rhythm to it. The rhyming sometimes in the middle of the words, but the rhythm of that anataxis. You'll see it a lot with ants is the other one that you're like in English, it's an awkward phrase when we go andamnur and himnuh. It's not very succinct. We don't like that, but they loved it. Here's another

one that I think is really powerful. It's the first word of the chapter. This is a word that helps us change your views. You think of watching a movie and the scene is going to change scenes. So you're watching a car chase and then you change scenes and now you're watching the driver's face as he's driving the car really fast. It changes the view. It changes the scene. Behold literally means look. Check it out. Check it. You'll see behold or look. The angel talking to Nephi in the dream says look a lot. Same idea. They're changing the narrator talking to Nephi in the dream says look a lot. Same idea. They're changing the narrator,

Mormon or Alma in this case, this is probably Alma actually, but he's telling us to zoom into a new scene. Whenever you see behold, you're kind of changing scenes slightly. Zooming in, zooming out, going into the past, going into the future, showing a different group.

Or you'll see it with sometimes with the prophet. He's trying to emphasize it. Behold, when you see those, it's not just a weird archaic phrase of like, and thus he saith, it's check it. Think of it zooming in on a screen. That's a lot of literary nerdiness. But I think it really helps us say, when we read these stories with fresh eyes, they can really sink into our hearts, or they give you a way to study it differently. It's, I'm gonna find all the beholds. I'm gonna find all those little repetitive weirdness things

and see how it makes me feel. In my house, well, I have a lot of boys. We do some of the voices, some of the back and forth. You be anti-Ni Phi Lehi and I'll be Ammon. And we switch that up back and forth so that it's easier to visualize. And I do the voice of Sherem who's like, Brother Jacob, I want to take it. It just helps, I think my kids visualize what's happening. Sometimes parents turn their personalities off when they read scripture. If we were thinking of it like casting a movie or making a movie of these, what would you

do? And that's what Alma or Mormon is trying to do is paint the picture and tell us. But if we read it like that, then you'd say, well, I would put this in a city. No, I would put this, there would be a montage of them being smitten and scourged and in prison, right? I would film it like that. It doesn't really say in verse two that these things had all happened to them, but where else would he get that list? Okay, no more of this and no more of this and no more of this. He looks over at the missionaries and they kind of nod. You got it. Thank you. Get the don't spit on us part in there too. Yeah, thank you. Okay. You have to leave any opening that's happened to them,

but it does set an interesting tone. If Elma's telling this story, the first thing we get is what? Behold, this was really rough. This is a super challenging mission. Who wants to sign up for a mission where you're gone for 14 years and your people say, you should just kill them. These people are impossible. Or, and you get there and then they just beat

you up and they scourge you and they spit on you and they throw you in prison. Wow. Why? Why would anyone do that? On your list, it would say, do not throw sandwiches at them. Don't throw sandwiches with mustard that would hit them. Thank you for remembering my story. That was from our interview last year. Laurie was in Spain, right? Yeah. Yeah. Barcelona. And got hit by a...

A flying sandwich. Yeah, I got stoned by a sandwich. I got stoned by a sandwich. It's not quite as gruesome as being thrown into jail, but it really hurt my feelings and it ruined my shirt. Everyone should go find last year's episode. And that was a story. Look at that, Laurie. Yeah, we remembered it. And you remembered it because it was a story. No more of that, says verse two. No more of that. And then it prompts the question, if it's so terrible, why are they doing it?

Who would go do this thing? And why would anybody do it? Because it sounds terrible. So that Anataxes, that flow down this terrible, terrible, terrible temple. But here's why. And we're going to see something powerful of why. John, would you mind running us through verse three? John 10 And thus they might go forth and preach the word according to their desires. For the king had been converted unto the Lord and all his household. Therefore he sent his proclamation throughout the land unto his people, that the word of God might have no obstruction, but that it might go forth throughout all the land, that his people might be convinced concerning the wicked traditions of their fathers, and that they might be convinced that they were all brethren, and that they ought not to murder,

nor to plunder, nor to steal, nor to commit adultery, nor to commit any manner of wickedness." Awesome. Thank you. After we hear all those terrible things that happened, is the answer of why the missionaries and the king are willing to go to all this trouble is in there. "'For the king had been converted unto the Lord and all his household.'" Wow. And how did that affect them unto the Lord and all his household. Wow. And how did that affect them in the story since you're our Book of Mormon expert? I mean, was that a big change for them? Was that like kind of a no big deal? How would

that story go? This one convert changes everything about the mission. And if you even backtrack further, Laurie, it was because this king saw the goodness goodness the love that Ammon had for his son So that single act that single moment where he says you really love my son That turns into this opening up the mission field say that conversion that change that Becomes something different is so monumental and I'm reading between the lines here, I want that for my people. I'm not gonna make you do it.

You have to feel this, you gotta meet these guys and understand that conversion, that change. Wow, you go, well, wow, what happened to them? And how do I get that for me? And that's when we meet a whole group of people. Jump in a little bit farther into the story here. We know that there is a section where the missionaries go out, the brothers, and they start to teach.

They have this free pass now. Now you can go teach and they start teaching. They raise up some more teachers. They have some other teachers that they teach. The gospel goes like wildfire. People are being converted and they're building churches and they're like, wow, it's working. It's working. Isn't this the dream of every missionary, formal missionary is that you're going to have an impact. That's what happens to these people. I have a literary nerd thing at the end of verse three, the list of commandments, convinced they were all brother, they ought not to murder, nor to plunder, nor to steal, nor to commit adultery, nor to commit any manner of wickedness."

That same list in that same order is in King Benjamin's speech. So this is where King Benjamin says, "...neither have I suffered that ye should be confined in dungeons, nor that ye should make slaves one of another, nor that ye should murder or plunder or steal or commit adultery, nor even have I suffered that ye should commit any manner of wickedness." Same phrases, same order, and John Welch noticed that and I thought, oh, that's pretty cool that King Benjamin's speech is still having an impact. Yeah, resonating.

Mosiah 2.13 is that reference. That's also called a literary motif. If you're gonna go through these nerd words where you see a phrase or a symbol thing and it's gonna follow through, you're gonna find these patterns or motifs and if they get bigger, they become a theme. As they get bigger and bigger,

these patterns of repeating, repeating, repeating, you're supposed to carry them through. If you see those, especially when they're weird phrases, sometimes they're odd phrases and you're like, well, that's a weird phrase. You can trace it. That's a brilliant call out way to go brother Welch on that one. We should have all the, what do you call them? All the, the literary nerds come onto YouTube and also tell us if you are a literary nerd, I refuse to join this gang. If you're a literary nerd, come onto YouTube.

You can join our game. That's right. Let Laurie know. Laurie and John, let them both know. It's like music. The words and the way they're written and how they just change you is this beautiful tapestry in the words. And we always get into the history and we get into the commandments and those are fantastic. There's nothing wrong. I'm not trying to downplay that, but this other part of it is how we receive the scripture. And I'm like, it is embossed on my soul, these words and these conveyance. Thank you, Mormon, for putting together such a beautiful story that can change me. I don't even have to go outside the house. I can just read this story and become a better person. Yeah, the nerd words are rad and don't be down talking them. So you could be part of our club anyway.

Yeah. And what's cool about this is Mosiah 2 13. Here we are in Alma 23 verse 3. And it also shows up in Alma 30 10 and in Helaman 3 14 and in Helaman 6 23 and in Helaman 314, and in Helaman 623, and in Helaman 721, and in Ether 816. That same list in the same order. AMTHAEUS A literary motif. BORMAN A motif grew into, what did you call it? A theme. AMTHAEUS It's a pattern that just keeps going and going. You'll see mostly with words, you can also see with images. We're going to see some with their swords. Their swords are going to be stained and their swords are going to be bright. You're going to see that motif.

Wow. The Book of Mormon is turning out to be quite a theme park. Oh, wah, wah. That hurt my eyeball. My teeth hurt now after that one. All right. The Church Grows, fantastic. So even though it was so challenging, it begins to take root and they begin to be converted no matter where we are in our lives. And I wanna point out something about these stories before we go any further. While these stories tend to take formal missionaries, however they did it in Nephite times,

they're called, they go out, they don't come home for 14 years. We often look at these and we only look at them from a formal missionary story. I was on a two year mission, I was on a service mission, I was a senior missionary. The gathering of Israel isn't just formal missionary work with a badge on your chest.

It's so much broader. So if you get to these chapters and you're like, well, I didn't serve a mission or my mission wasn't great or I never had a chance, whatever it is. These stories are for all of us because missionary work, think of it as the gathering of Israel, which is much broader. Matthew 16 You say to your 11 year old, you need to gather Israel, huh? But President Nelson, that's been a theme, but then he gave this wonderful

statement where he talked about, anytime you do anything that helps anyone on either side of the veil, look how he expanded it, take a step toward making covenants. Even take a little bit closer than they were yesterday. You are helping to gather Israel. That was that talk, Hope of Israel, in 2018. Anybody can understand that. Anytime you do anything that helps anyone on either side of the veil, even get a little closer, you're helping to gather

Israel. And I'm glad you said that we have a lot of service missionaries, my parents in law are on a senior mission, having the time of their lives. They're helping people get a step closer. As President Nelson said, they're gathering. I love that a step closer. As President Nelson said, they're gathering. SONIA DARA-MARGOLIS I love that, a step closer. That's really powerful because I don't think that many times in our lives are we actually on a formal mission or we even have an opportunity to be on a formal mission. We can apply these stories to whatever we're working on in our corner of the kingdom. Maybe it's the primary lesson this week. Maybe it's raising a child. Maybe it's being kind to our coworkers, which are

really hard. Or maybe there's a formal mission. It's all of gathering Israel. This is huge. And these stories, we can apply them anywhere. Here we say, hey, we might have been in a really tough spot. And you can think, when was I in a really tough spot where I was trying to help others come into Christ and it was really tough. They were spitting on me or whatever your story is and then things got a little better or how do I get there? How do I get them converted? And then we can read about that in the very next verse. In verse six, we start to learn what's going to happen. Let's do six and seven. Hank, will you read that for us? Hank S. Hickman Sure. Alma 23, six and seven. And as sure

as the Lord liveth, so sure as many as believed, or as many as were brought to the knowledge that for us? Sure, Alma Lord, never did fall away. For they became a righteous people. They did lay down their weapons of their rebellion, that they did not fight against God anymore, neither against any of their brethren." Wow. That would be the best missionary homecoming talk that we don't have those homecomings anymore. But that's what you would come. You're like, well, the people I converted never did fall away and they became a righteous people. And you're like, wow, where did you go? That sounds amazing. What a promise. Who's talking here? It could be Mormon. And I think it might be Elma. It's one of the narrators. He's like, I lifted the story. Hey, who was the Book of Mormon for?

Was it for the Nephites? No, it's for us. I've seen you. I know your workings and I am writing this to you right now. This is your story. Maybe the people that need to be converted that never fall away are ourselves. Yeah, the reader. Whatever the application. He's saying, here is an amazing miraculous story where this conversion sunk deep into their hearts and changed them so radically, they became something new. They became a new creature, as Paul says.

They're risen in life to something new and they never go back and I'm like, oh I want that How do I get that and he's going to show us how they did it in the next few chapters now Here is a great exercise go through and write any time you see the word converted or Any of the blessings of the conversion? Those are going to be the hints of what made this so successful. We talked about it last week, but I love that the object of conversion is always to the Lord. It's not converts to the church.

Book of Mormon doesn't use that language. And here I'm seeing it four times on this page. For those of you using ancient page versions, I'm on page 267. I see converted onto the Lord in verse three he converted onto the Lord in verse 3, converted onto the Lord in verse 6, converted onto the Lord in verse 8, and converted onto the Lord in verse 13. The object of our conversion is to the Lord and Lori you said they became, verse 7. It's not even what you do, it's what we're becoming, as President Oaks taught us.

Powerful. John, you've mentioned that a few times on our show and it really has hit me hard that if you never want to fall away, if you're saying in your heart of hearts, I hope I never fall away. I think Mormon is giving you the recipe here. You have to be converted to the Lord.

There's so many things we could be converted to. We could be converted to the doctrine, we could be converted to the temple, we could be converted to the social setting. Sometimes people are converted to the missionary. Those aren't terrible things. But it seems that conversion to the Lord is what has staying power. Occasionally, when I have a friend who leaves the church, good people, very good people. Occasionally, I'll get a resume of someone who's left the church.

I served a mission. I went to BYU. I served in the bishopric. I was really society president. I read every manual. I have yet to hear someone say, I came to know the Lord through the Book of Mormon and even I fell away. These are not bad people in any way, but it seems the staying power is I came to know

the Lord. I had my own experience with the Lord. Because once you have your own experience, a person with an experience is never at the mercy of a person with an opinion. Once you have an experience with the Lord and then you have those over and over continuing experiences, you become converted to Him. You feel like Joseph Smith. I knew it. I knew that God knew it. I could not deny it. Hank, I love that so much. I've heard you say it in a different way another time that I have felt the power of Jesus Christ in my heart or in my life. That's being converted unto the Lord. The object of my conversion is my eyes are on Christ. When that happens, you can see all sorts of ups and downs and imperfections and everything else going around. But your conversion isn't on those other things. Your conversion is to

the Lord and the Book of Mormon is so consistent with that phrase. That's a powerful thing to me that the Book of Mormon is very consistent. Our conversion is unto the Lord. Beautiful. I love as well what you said there about becoming and how those feelings we can't really take away those ideas. Elma says it in Elma Five Away, I just absolutely love. He says, have you felt to sing the song of redeeming love? And you think, oh, I remember those times. And maybe you think of those times. And then he says, and can you feel so now? And I always think that's a clue. Like, I remember those experiences. Can I share a story? I had lived out of state and then I'd moved to a different state. And when

I got to that new state, I didn't really get attached to a ward. I didn't even know what ward I was in and I didn't know what time we met. It was before this is how old I am. It was before the you can log on and find a chapel on the website. It was easy to not go for quite a few months. I was living in Northern California at the time. And finally, one day I was like, I'd like to go to church. I figured out and I go to the ward. I'm sitting in the back, right? Because I'm like, I'm the heathen who hasn't been here. I'm sure my records have been here for a while. And I haven't been to church for a while. It wasn't like I was rebellious or something.

I sat in the very back on that road. There's the big gap, so you're just like, I can flee at any moment if it just gets boring or whatever. I don't know anybody. I'm sitting in the carpeted room that looks so familiar. I just don't feel a place. We get to the sacrament hymn. We sing, Inhumility,

I feel the power of the Savior. All those feelings that I had had, and I still now sing that hymn with that feeling comes back of like, hey, you belong here. And I just remember singing and I'm a terrible singer. And I'm like singing in the back and you know, you don't really belt out the sacrament hymns. I was like, I remember. How did I forget this? Why did I think I didn't belong? Even today in humility, it's my favorite sacrament hymn because it teaches me of the Savior and that feeling of Him welcoming me. Also just because it tied back to all those feelings that I had built of the song of redeeming

love from before, my conversion from before. Isn't that a great question, he asks. You felt this, it made you want to sing. Can you feel so now? It's a good gut check for all of us where we're like, yeah, I was a little more fired up back in this time in my past. I need to, that fired up feeling again and think Celestial and get on the covenant path's such a good question, isn't it? It's a good question and one that I think we can always go back to, link enough of those together and it's bright again. They became a righteous people, verse 7.

They became, love it. They had to work at it though, right? That become makes me feel like there's something involved. Yeah, we don't know how long that took. There was something beautiful, beautiful. And it changes them. And this is part of the story that we know so well that it talks about these, there are these seven cities.

They're more than that actually before. It's a little poem in this next section. Then it talks about the seven cities, the people, some of the people, not the whole city, but some of the people are converted into at least seven, which is literary. And there are a couple more cities earlier in list and it's like, well, maybe they didn't have people converted. But my guess is, is trying to remind us of that seven

perfection, God's hand in it, that they were fullness, they were fully converted. There's the idea again, fully converted right there. They go through and they tell us that they were converted unto the Lord. And then in verse 13, this most miraculous result of what happens to these people when they become fully converted to the Lord. Would you read that for us, John 23, 13? John. And these are the names of the cities of the Lamanites which were converted unto the Lord. And these are they that laid down the weapons of their rebellion, yea, all their weapons of war. And they were all Lamanites." What? There's a reference here in 26 about how when the brothers are going to go and

they say, we're going to go do a mission and they're like, hey, we want to go teach the Lamanites and the Nephites, their family and friends. This is their response to that really great idea. Alma 2625, and moreover, they did say, let us take up arms against them, that we destroy them and their iniquity out of the land, lest they overrun us and destroy us. Well, it wasn't, it's not gonna be a good mission.

You would be more successful to go kill them. Those people are never gonna be converted, never be converted. Then you go, oh, wait a minute. We go back to this story and they are so converted that they are like, we're going to set down our weapons, our weapons, the thing that defined us. It's like our superpower skill that we have been developing for years and years. And we are willing to say that was wrong, and we are going to bury our weapons. I love that.

That change, I can't think of a lot of stories that have fundamentally changed someone so much that they took what defined them and gave it up. This is amazing, which gives me hope that if they can change, so can I. The Lord can change me. Even the darkest corners, the places I hope no one finds about my worst habits, my worst thoughts, my worst behaviors, I can become righteous. If he could do it to them, he can do it to me. I'm sure both of you have heard this little Abraham Lincoln story.

I don't know if it's true. It's on the internet, so it must be true, right? Have you seen that thing on the internet that says, don't believe everything you see on the internet, Abraham Lincoln? That was a good quote of his. I think that was in the Gettysburg Address. Yeah, four score and dot dot dot. It says that an older woman rebuked Lincoln for his conciliatory attitude towards the

South. She felt that they should be destroyed after the Civil War. And Abraham Lincoln replied, Madam, do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends? That kind of fits with what you were saying there, Laurie. Some people wanted them destroyed. They did, in theory, get rid of the Lamanites because they're no longer Lamanites. No longer enemies. Yeah, they become counted among the Nephites. Such a powerful story. I've often heard this story as we apply it, as we're always looking at ourselves as the Nephites. In that point of view that we talked about at the beginning,

we say, we're like the Nephites and we're the good guys. And then sometimes you're one of the missionaries. Even though they're also converted, you're the good guys. I think this story is extra powerful when we look at it from those who were converted, whether they were Lamanites or Lamoni or Anti, Nephi, Lehi, the king, or the people. You think, you know what? That's my story. I have been converted and what am I willing to do?

And they spend so much time, we spend chapters learning about these people and hearing their voices and getting to know them. And I think that's my story. I think I have a lot more in common sometimes with these people who have messed up and aren't really super successful than the ones who are awesomely successful.

If you think about the Book of Alma and Mosiah, it's like 99% about people who screwed up and the Lord forgave and saved them. From Alma the Younger, to the sons of Mosiah, to the anti-Nephi-Lehies, Zezrom. They're these people that rebound. I have an inkling, a little clue that Mormon's like, hey, this story is your story. You're not a Nephite, Lori.

You're a little bit like these converts learning to become converted unto the Lord. Yeah, so pretty cool. But I definitely have some foibles I'm still becoming. I'm still converting unto the Lord. Yeah, so pretty cool. But I definitely have some foibles I'm still becoming, I'm still converting to the Lord. Pete We all, Laurie, at one point in our lives, we're all converted, whether it be a missionary comes into our life and we're a convert, as you might say, or we were born and raised in the church. But we still need to become a convert and there's still things that you and I need to give up. What did you say? It's their identity? That we've said

their weapons represent who they are. I feel like it is. Like if you think about these people, almost like professional warriors, they're like ninja warrior people. Some have theorized too that this was part of a human sacrifice. It was part of their behavior. But whatever it was, their warring behavior, these murders that they say they committed, it was who they were so much to the core that they were like, wow, we have to give that up

to become something new. I don't know how often that happens at this scale as far as the scope, how big it is in our lives, that we have to kind of redefine ourselves so completely that we have to walk away from everything that they were or we were. We have to give up that portion of our identity for a new one. They changed their name. Let's go to story. Let's find out what they do next. It's certainly not something everybody has to do, But it's something that these guys decided to coincide with this change the brothers go raise up more teachers and priests and they do more teaching and the

Church catches on we read about these seven cities and then wow There's this whole group of people that have now joined the Lord and have been converted and then they go. Hey It's part of this conversion, we got to change. We got to change something big about ourselves. And that's where we pick up the story. Since we've been talking about different styles of writing, there's this narrative that we've been doing story, story, story, and some dialogue. There is a speech in 24 seven through 16 is a speech. We call that rhetoric. Those styles are different. So we have King Benjamin's speech and this is King Anti-Nephi-Lehi.

Such a catchy name that they've chosen here. He gives a speech to his people. A great way to study is to go and look at these different speeches and see their patterns and what happens with them. King Benjamin has a speech. This is one of the most brilliant speeches I've ever seen. Samuel Lamanite has quite the speech. And then third Nephi has a speech to the people. Captain Moroni with his title of liberty,

he gives like an impromptu speech. So you see these times when speeches come up and they are brilliant and they have their own cadence and their own style. Anti-Nephi, Lehi is doing the same thing as people. We need to change. And he calls them to continue to make this change. Before we hear about his speech though, let's talk about they decide to change their name. Is that common, weird, strange? Remind us of anything, you guys. Are there other examples of people in the scriptures changing their names? Jared Siffle happens frequently. Julie Penner It does, doesn't it, Hank? It's remarkably

common. Why do we do that? Why are people changing their names? What about that coincides with this spiritual change that they've had? Hank Siffle Yeah, it's like a new start, a new identity. Oh, new identity. It's about a change in our identity. When you get married, a lot of times you'll change your name. When we take upon us the name of Christ, we become Christian. We become his sons and daughters. We take on a new identity. Oh, that's powerful, John, I love that. We all love that verse of 4th Nephi, there were no more Lamanites and Lemuelites and

Nephites, they were the children of Christ. And it's this higher unifying identity that was present in Nelson recently with the YSAs. We've said it a dozen times, right, Hank? You are a child of God, a child of the covenant, a disciple of Christ. That's how we introduced you, Laurie, a disciple of Christ. I hope so. My dad had a wood shop and he could fix anything and he worked on our cars every Saturday and in the wood shop and for years I thought my name was in the way because he always told me, you're in the way, you're in the way. Yeah. And then later I learned it was by the way and I thought, oh, okay. I used to be in the way. Jokes aside, the people come and they say, we have so radically changed. We've traced our

identities, who we are, how we see ourselves, that we want to change our names. Love, they meet with them and it says, and they're priests. This is a spiritual thing. And they say, what should we go by? And then they come up with this in 2317. And it came to pass that they called their names anti-Nephi-Lehi's and they were called by this name and they were no more called Lamanites. We don't want to associate with that. Lots of theories of what this means. If we said anti, it would be like against Nephi, Lehi. In Egyptian, the letters seem to be of or by or something one of. Yeah. So something like very much Egyptian or none. Something like of Nephi and Lehi. But I love they're going back to that original family. Lamanites, it's a mouthful. I'm guessing in whatever language they spoke,

it was better, but maybe not. And then later the Nephites call him the people of Ammon. And I love that the king, Lamoni's brother, changes his name to the same thing, like his regnal name, his covenant name. This is such a big difference. And I wonder how often we take those identities that we're given, right? Daughter of God, child of Christ, member of the church or first names or last names, member of the kingdom and say, that's my identity. My identity isn't what I do or my desires or what I ate this week or what football team I'm like, my fundamental identity is this, is my spiritual recognition to the Lord.

Maybe I'll start signing my paychecks with that. Just Laurie Denning, disciple of Christ. And when we take upon us the name of Christ, that's what we're representing. And I did some reading up on the anti-Nephi-Lehi thing. And you're right, the Egyptian N-T-Y means he of or the one of. It helped my students a lot and me too because I thought anti sounds like against. But how many names in the Book of Mormon are anti? Antipara, anti-omno, the mount antipas. So anti-omno is, and I'm against those omnos, that's a name, it's a proper name. So anti-Nehvi-Lehi, I think anti maybe is a name that helps me to see, especially if that Egyptian

interpretation is true. We are one of Lehi and Nephi. Ante maybe is a name that helps me to see, especially if that Egyptian interpretation is true, we are one of Lehi and Nephi. Oh, that's beautiful. Taylor Halverson pointed out to me that, remember, one is a description, Antichrist. It's not a name. One is an actual name, Anti-Nephi and Lehi. Like Antiparah or Antipas. Yeah, they have a lot of those like grace, patience.

There were a lot of virtues there for a while in the 1600s and 1700s. So they were names were thankful, patience, humility. I think those would always be really great wrestling names is like Puffy Pants Denning or something, you know, and you're like, sounds really tough, but it's like goofy. Puffy Pants Denning. You know, Flower Child, Laurie, and then you're like, oh, tough guy, you know, and you're like, sounds really tough, but it's like goofy. You know, flower child, Laurie. And then you're like, ah, tough guy, you know. So when you say thankful, it could be a description, but it also can be a proper name and they're different things.

I love that. My twin and I are adopted. And so we were given names at birth. And then my parents, when they adopted us, gave us new names. They pondered Stacey and Tracy. I'm glad they went with Laurie and Lisa. There are lots of different names. And then on my mission, I was Ermana Denning. We just have different titles. And I think about how those identities change and are given to us by different people, or we take on the name of Christ.

That's that ultimate definition of who we are. Like you said, John, it just brings us up a level. We're not Lamanites and Lemuelites, but we are children of Christ. And that helps me understand what they were doing. They were trying to change who they were named that reflected how they felt and what they had become as they became converted to the Lord. And so maybe if you did have to come up with your own name or just as an idea, I think it's a great thought exercise is to say outside of being a child of Christ or a disciple of Christ, what name would you hope to give yourself? Would you be Thankful Lori? Would you be Patient Hank? What would you be, Son of Thunder John? Right? What nickname or identity are you hoping

to be known by? Because these people picked something really strong and particular to them, and they were so strong about it, they said they were no more called Lamanites. They completely abandoned that definition of themselves because it didn't reflect who they were. That's how different this conversion was for them, how poignant joining the gospel of Jesus Christ was. The next thing then is the new king, anti-Nephilehi, he takes on that name and he gives the speech. After he gives a speech, they're like, you guys, we need to take a vow, we need to make a covenant that will keep us from falling back on these old behaviors.

And the behavior and the issue, their identity that they wanted to distance themselves from is war. They say murders. Yeah, in verse 17 it says, They took their swords and all the weapons which were used for the shedding of man's blood, and they did bury them up deep in the earth. And this they did, it being in their view, a testimony to God and also to men, that they never would use weapons again for the shedding of man's blood. And this they did vouching and covenant-ing with God that rather than shed the blood of their brethren, they would give up their own lives. And rather than take away from a brother, they would give unto him. And rather than spend their days in idleness,

they would labor abundantly with their hands. There are a couple of things that just jumped out at me. Just a little phrase in verse 18, in their view, a testimony. This was something that they didn't have to do. This was so important to them that they wanted to say this was a witness. This was a testimony of that conversion to God, but also to men. We are different. They're going to take their swords. I brought a sword today. This was the first sword I brought home from Spain for my mission.

It's kind of tiny actually. It's called the colander. I'm not sure they had this kind of sword, right? They might've had an obsidian sword, but their weapons were so important to them that they weren't going to get rid of them so far that they couldn't go get them. They didn't keep them in the closet or sell them at the swap meet. They bury them. They bury them. And I'm like, wow, what if though they have to go to war? I mean, what if something bad happens? These are like ninjas. This is their special skill. Maybe they could use it for good. And they're like, no, no matter what happens, we will never do it again. And we're going to see over and over again where they're going to be tested immediately. Laurie, I see in this chapter that word deep. They did bury them deep in the earth. I see

it again, 16 and 17. I have written in my scriptures here that part of repentance is trying or making it so your sins are inaccessible. Here comes this war and they're like, you know what forget about our promise let's get our weapons. Where are they? No, they're 30 feet down. My sin is inaccessible. They didn't hang the weapons on the wall and go, we'll never use those again. Even if I am tempted, it's not available to me. I've had college students who struggled on their phone, whether with pornography or time wasting. So they went and got a flip phone. They turned in their smartphone and got a flip phone and temptation is reduced quite a bit because it's not available

I buried it deep in the earth and people would ask them. Hey, why'd you get a flip phone? And they'll say I'm just trying to manage my time Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's maybe not a weapon of war I guess a phone can be a weapon for but I like the idea of they buried them deep in the earth Can I share a story about when I had to make a change like this? but I liked the idea of they buried them deep in the earth. Can I share a story about when I had to make a change like this? I don't come out looking great on these stories, just by the way, but before I served a formal mission

in Spain, I was on the debate team, the speech and debate team. I had learned to argue and to use words and language, and I was good at it. I competed in college and got gold medals. And then when I got to Spain, I had always loved the scriptures. I remember them pretty well. And I was pretty good at Spanish. I'm like, I've got these gifts that the Lord has given me so that I think I can teach. I started to get a little bit prideful. There was another group of people in our community from another religion that also proselyte. We started to talk to them. We would run into

them all the time and they would talk to us. And at first it was just easy. Well, we started to debate a little. We used to call it Bible bashing. And they told us, don't do it. And I was like, oh, well, I'm not doing it. I'm just talking. And then I started to get prouder and prouder of my debate skills and my Bible bashing, so much so that I had notes. I started taking notes and practicing at home, even got some of their pamphlets and documents. And I would like mark them up. And I was spending a lot of time, my free time in the evening, preparing for these Bible bashes on the corner. I thought, I am defending the church. I'm doing this good thing. One day we made down on this corner, it was a big plaza. There are some basically sister missionaries for the Southern faith community. We're out on a literal street corner

in Europe, and I've got my name badge badge on and I'm wearing my skirt and the whole thing and I've got my scriptures and we're arguing and I'm like flipping. There's even times when I'm pounding with my finger into the scriptures. That's not what that says and then like this is what it says and they're like flip, flip, flip, flip, flip, flip and where I'm going and going and I'm like, man, I am debating, I'm navigating. Oh, I am winning every argument. It goes on for quite a while. I just remember looking down at my scriptures. I was so intent on these points I was making. In the meantime, the elders had shown up on the square because that's where we usually made street contacts that morning,

and they see what's going on, so they come over. I was so engrossed in the conversation that I didn't even know they were there. And I suddenly feel this insistent poke on my outside shoulder. Poke, poke, poke. Then I say in Spanish, come on, what, what? And it's the elder. And he says in English, Armada sister, she's crying. And I look up and I see the woman of the two women I'm talking to just looking down and tears are just streaming down her face. And instantly, I realized what I had done. I had taken my special gifts and I had weaponized them. And I had made someone else feel terrible. Come to find out, she was a brand new convert to that religion.

And she was so excited to go out and share about the gospel of Jesus Christ that she came over to just talk about it. And I lay into her as I realize and the guilt washes over me in just a second. I remembered kind of even tilting my shirt back like that name badge I can't even represent him in this moment. How have I done this? All those skills that the Lord had blessed me with I had used For bad for evil and I had taken someone's testimony of the Savior and shattered it. I got home that night. How did I do this? They told us not to do this. They said it never brings the spirit. It's never a good idea. I took all my notes and I took the pamphlets. And

we lived in kind of a high rise apartment so I couldn't bury them deep. But I had a little pot and I took it out to our little balcony that's like one foot wide and I burned them. I was like, I am never gonna do that again. I will never use those talents that the Lord has blessed me with to tear down someone's testimony of the Savior or their faith in God or anything like that. Now I have been tempted. There have been times social media love me that you're like, well, I can answer that or someone's attacking the church that I would love to wade in. But I remember the vow that I made as I repented, I will never do this. Again, I will never weaponize the skills and blessings that I've been given to tear down another soul. This story really resonates with me.

This is my story. This is what I did. And I'm not able to ever go back and find that woman or talk to her, but I hope that I've used my skills for good and to build the kingdom rather than tear down someone else When I look at these stories again, I'm not always amin. I'm not always Alma I'm the person that has a weapon of war someone that brings contention or a failing or something that Is harmful to myself or others and I need to bury it deep. I need to covenant that I'm not gonna do that anymore and change and the good news is through the savior,

I can become fully converted. I can change my very identity and I can become something new. Now I'm a teacher of the gospel instead of a basher of others. And so he's made my weapons bright. Instead of being stained, they've become skills that I hope to continue to use. Pete It reminds me of Luke chapter nine, when there's a Samaritan village that refuses to let the Savior stay there And James and John turn to Jesus and say,

let's command fire to consume them. Jesus gets upset, but he doesn't get upset at the Samaritan village. And he says to James and John, you know not what manner spirit you are of. Says simply, they went to another village. Let it go. We live in a society that's so easy to find contention. My social media feed finds negative things far more than it wants to highlight positive, right? It wants to get a reaction

and a rise out of you. Pokes and pokes and pokes at all your weaknesses and builds and tells us go after those things and that's, you know, righteous and you can beat people up online or do all these terrible things. And it's so easy to fall into. And here, Mormon has selected the scripture to say, you can change too. There's great hope that these people that were, we should go to war. You'll have more luck with them if you had killed them, his Nephites say. And then they're like the best ones. They're the best people. And you're like, there's hope for me too. And that's the power of the atonement of Jesus Christ, that I can become a new creature.

I take on his name. I'm not the Lori that fought on that street corner. I'm the disciple Lori. I'm somebody new. And that is exciting. I can take that experience and say, don't do it again. Remember, hey, feel, but I am not that person. I'm positive I have never done that again.

I've buried that deep. It's unlike swords. It's right here at the tip of my tongue, pardon the pun. I can't wait to debate. I can't wait to use it again. I have to be really cautious. But I think these stories are for us and they tell us about how the savior can change us

and he can change our identity and our very spirits as we become converted to Him. And that gives me great joy. Coming up in part two of this episode. If you're okay, I was going to chant, see the difference by making the scriptures a song. Like you said, John, Oh, that I were an angel.