Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Doctrine & Covenants 81-83 Part 1 : Dr. Matthew C. Godfrey

Episode Date: July 17, 2021

Do you ever struggle to identify with those in the scriptures? In Section 81, we see Frederick G. William’s name but originally the revelation listed Jesse Gause’s name (but he didn’t serve faithfully and was replaced with Williams). Dr. Matthew Godfrey explains how the revelations can be used and applied to Saints today, regardless of the names in the scriptures. These sections may seem brief but Dr. Godfrey expounds on the historical backgrounds that make these sections soon to be some of your favorites as they discuss service, ministering, and how the Lord qualifies those whom He calls.Shownotes: https://followhim.co/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followhimpodcastYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/FollowHimOfficialChannel"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com/products/let-zion-in-her-beauty-rise-pianoPlease rate and review the podcast.

Welcome to Follow Him, a weekly podcast dedicated to helping individuals and families with their Come Follow Me study. I'm Hank Smith and I'm John by the way. We love to learn, we love to laugh. We want to learn and laugh with you. As together, we follow him. Hello everyone, welcome to today's episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I am your host. I'm here with my refreshing co-host the master teacher John by the way. Welcome John.

Hank, we got a comment. Why is Hank always talking up John by the way? He is amazing. John people have asked me. They said is he the same in person as he as he seems I'm like he's better in person Hey, I just want to make sure everybody knows that you can find us on social media on Instagram and Facebook You can rate and review the podcast. We'd love you to do that Also, you can go to follow him dot c o follow him dot co and you can get transcripts and show notes and all you need there. So, we hope you'll, hope you'll join us. Now, John, I've been looking forward to today for a long time.

I've looked up to our guest's work and his resume for a long time. Tell us who we have. Yeah, I'm excited for this too. work and his resume for a long time. Tell us who we have. Yeah, I'm excited for this too. I just think every time we have somebody on, it's so fun to hear the varied backgrounds of the people that we get to talk to. And such an interesting background today. And it just, I love that it adds to, to the testimonies that so many people from so many different backgrounds are our brothers and sisters, I just love this. So today we are talking with Matthew Godfrey.

And he's the general editor and the managing historian of the Joseph Smith Papers project. Now that right there is just huge. Previously he said, I worked for eight years as a historical consultant with the company Historical Research Associates. Head of the company's history division from 2006 to 2010 and president of the company from 2008 to 2010. He has a PhD in American and public history from Washington State University. He's the author of,

listen to this book, Hank, Religion, Politics, and Sugar. Subtitled, the Mormon Church, the Federal Government, and the Utah Idaho Sugar Company, 1907-1921. And a co-editor of the Earth will appear as the Garden of Eden. Essays in Mormon environmental history. He's also authored Essays published in the public historian, Agricultural History Pacific Northwest Quarterly, the Journal of Mormon History, BYU Studies Quarterly, and Mormon Historical Studies. And Hank, you have a book that we both have. Hold that up and tell us about that book

that Matthew's editor, I think one of the editors. Yeah, Matt, thank you so much for being here, by the way. Oh, you bet. Thank you for having me. I really admire what you guys are doing and just am grateful to be here. I reached out and I was kind of, you know, crossing my fingers and come on say yes and you're so kind. So kind to say yes because we know you're very busy. Now, the book that John was talking about is this book, no brother Joseph. published by Deseret book in March and myself, Mac grow and Eric Smith were all general editors of the Joseph Smith Papers project and have been

for a number of years. And we decided that because the Joseph Smith Papers is a project that's really more geared towards scholars than it is towards general church members, we were thinking of ways of how can we get some of the findings, some of the discoveries that we've made about Joseph Smith to a larger general public. And so we decided that we would ask numerous scholars, both those working on the jilzosmith papers uh, you know professors of church history and doctrine from byu uh, others that that we knew to just write very short essays about what they've learned about jilzosmith and who he was as a person from the jilzosmith papers And so we we put that together. It was a pleasure to read all of the essays. They're just so full of insights into Joseph Smith as a person.

And we're just really, really pleased with it. I've been reading a few essays every day, and it's uplifting, and it's real. It's just been, this is turning into one of my favorites. You know, this is where I personally like to get my history. I like to get it from historians. And some people might say that, well, you know, a historian is not necessarily, you know, something that you have to rely on in getting your history. We have plenty of what I would call, and I got this from Dr. Dirkmont.

We have plenty of what he calls pseudo historians online, pseudo scholars online. What would you say to someone who says, no, I get my history, I get my history online versus I get my history from published historians. Sure, yeah. I mean, there are some good things that you can get online, but I think when you're studying church history, when you're studying any aspect of history, really, you know, there are people who have been trained to be historians, just like you have people that have trained to be doctors, you have people who have trained to be attorneys. As much as I love my brother who was in the church education system for a number of years, if I was getting sued over something, I would go to my brother who's an attorney,

and not to my brother who's a seminary teacher, because my brother who's an attorney has had, you know, the background and the training in that. And I think the same can be said for historians. When you go through the graduate program in history, master's degrees, and PhDs in history, you get exposed to what the historical method is, how to try to write history objectively, to be aware of biases, both your own biases,

the biases and your sources. You're able to better see that there are always two sides at every story. There's not just one side. And so it's just a way, I think, that historians are able to look at sources, to be able to put those together, to make an argument that I definitely think it is more beneficial to really read from those who have had the training. Hey, man, I think that there are as Matt just alluded to, there's rules of scholarship, there's tools that scholars use, there's going to primary sources, and I think as we all become more critical and when we read, we hear facts, and then we hear conclusions based on the facts. And I'm grateful

there are when I pick up a book like this, no brother Joseph, that there, I can trust these scholars to use those tools and rules of scholarship. And that makes me go, okay, this is a trust worthy source. There's the good, there's the bad, we know these weren't perfect people, but but I can trust this and that makes such a difference. And Matt, you didn't come on here to sell books and I didn't even tell you I was going to do this, but the book is no brother Joseph. And I'm telling anyone who's listening. If you truly want to know who Joseph Smith is, unless you have certain conclusions you want about him. Right. This is who he is.

This book is who he is, who he was. We're so glad to have you, Matt, and thank you for that contribution you've made to the whole church. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. And I hope people get a good depiction of who Joseph was, not just that he was a prophet,

but that he was a real human being too, that he went through challenges and difficulties and trying to be a father and trying to be a husband, and he's doing all this while he's trying to restore the church, and it's just pretty amazing when you look out up. Yeah. There was one about the loneliness of Joseph Smith.

I can't remember who that one was by, but man, that specific essay and there's, there's, I don't know how many essays. There's a lot. And Hank, we should mention Hank how many of the people that we've had on the podcast are contributors to this. Stephen Harper and Tony Sweat and Derek, Garrett Durkmot. Janice Johnson, Jenny Reader, so so good. Anyway, let's get into our lesson. This week we're studying sections 81, 82, and 83. Matt, let's go back as far as you want and give some context.

Let's give the history that our listeners need to know before studying these sections. The thing that I think is interesting with these sections is you were mentioned in, it's not like they're very long, you know, they're three relatively short sections in the doctrine and covenants, but the historical context for these sections are very important and are very detailed too. So there's actually quite a bit to talk about so that people can better understand what's going on in these sections. So two of these sections,

especially deal with consecration and with the saints trying to practice the law of consecration, which of course was given to them in February of 1831 and what is section 42 of the doctrine and covenants. And the sections also deal with building up the city of Zion. And those two things, the law of consecration, building up the city of Zion, how the saints are going to do that. But the Lord also, in section 57 and the doctrine and covenants, has told William W. Phelps that he needs to plant himself in misery and be a printer to the church. And he tells Sidney Gilbert that he is both to be an agent of Edward Partridge, so help him by land,

as well as he's supposed to establish a store in independence. And so with those two things, the printing endeavor that's supposed to be going on in independence, the store that they're supposed to establish there. The saints start to wonder about, okay, how are we going to finance this? Joseph Smith and some other elders meet in November of 1831. They decide they want a print, a compilation of Joseph Smith's revelations, which will become known as the Book of Commandments. That's to be printed out of Missouri. And once they figure out how much money it actually cost to buy enough paper

to print 10,000 copies, they decide, yeah, let's cut that back a little bit. We're only gonna print 3,000 copies. So you have that going on as well that they're trying to print this compilation of Joseph Smith's revelations. So again, the question comes up, how are we going to fund all of this? And so these three sections also deal with kind of the temporal aspects of the

church. How do you get enough money to be able to do the things that the Lord has told you that he wants you to do? So in November of 1831, as Joseph Smith and others are talking about what they need to do to publish the revelations. The Lord gives another revelation to Joseph Smith where he appoints six men to be what he calls the stewards over the revelations. And those six men are Joseph Smith, Sydney Rignan, Oliver Cowdery, John Whitmer, William W. Phelps, and Martin Harris. And so they're appointed to be the stewards over the revelations. What this means is that they are the ones that have oversight over the publication of the

book of commandments. And they soon become known as the literary firm. That's kind of the title that's given to this organization of these six men who are supposed to oversee this publication. So you have this literary firm that's established to do that. But then again, you still have this store in Missouri that they're trying to buy goods for. You have Nuulke Whitney who is a store owner in Kirtland, and he's called to be a bishop in the church in December of 1831, and he's told that his store should serve as a storehouse for the church as well,

just like the store that Sydney Gilbert's supposed to build in independence will be a storehouse. So, two, Nuulke Whitney's store is supposed will be a storehouse. So two, Nulke Whitney's store is supposed to be a storehouse. And so there's these questions of, okay, how do we organize this? Like, how do we manage these different temporal ventures that are going on? And so in section 82 of the doctrine and covenants, we see the Lord giving instructions about how he wants these different things to be managed. Now this begins section 78, which you've talked about previously. In that section, Joseph Smith, Sidney, Rigdon, and Nulke Whitney are told to go to Zion and to sit in counsel with the saints and to establish a firm while they are there.

And so Joseph and Sidney and Nulke Whitney traveled to Missouri in the spring of 1832. They hold a council of high priests and elders on April 26 and 27th of 1832. And in that council of elders, Joseph Smith receives what is section 82 in the doctrine and covenants, which tells them that they need to form this firm to manage the mercantile and publishing endeavors of the church. So that's kind of the background for section 82.

One of the things that you need to keep in mind, and this is another kind of theme that comes up with these three sections, is that the background that I just laid out for section 82, if you read section 82, as it currently is in our doctor and in covenants, you're going to say, what in the world is he talking about? There's nothing in there about a firm You know, there's nothing in there about publishing and mercantile endeavors and the reason for that is that When the revelation was first given the earliest copies that we have of the revelation Say that Joseph is supposed to organize this firm to coordinate the publishing and mercantile endeavors. But when they prepare their revelation for publication in the 1835 doctrine and covenants, they actually decide

that they need to try to provide some protection for the people who are members of this firm, so that creditors didn't come after each member of the firm. and so when it's published, they take out the true purpose of what the firm is. They just say that it's an establishment that will take care of the poor and the needy, which ultimately is what the United firm was supposed to do, but it's not as specific as the original revelation was. They also change it so that it's not referred to as a firm, but it's referred to as an order. And so this is where we get people talking about the United Order because of these these changes that are made. So United Firm, United Order, kind of the same thing.

Same thing. But it is important to note too that when we think of United order today, we oftentimes think of what Brigham Young instituted in the Great Basin after the Saints moved there, and that's not the same as this United firm that's established in section 82. The United firm was an organization of nine church leaders who each had their different stewardship over either the mercantile or publishing endeavors of the church and they were supposed to work together to manage those things. And there's and there's some things going on. If Joseph Smith doesn't have enough going on, he's got Ezra Booth to deal with and what's happening there, right? He's got Ezra Booth to deal with and what's happening there, right?

Yeah, he's got Ezra Booth to deal with so Ezra Booth I think as you've talked about before you know a member of the church for several months had been a Methodist minister converted when he saw Joseph Hill Elsa Johnson's arm He's one of the ones that's commanded to travel to Missouri in the summer of 1831. He's told that in section 52. And he's just kind of a malcontent the whole time that he's traveling. He gets mad because Joseph and Sidney ride part of the way in a carriage, but yet he has to walk and why should I have to walk if they get to ride in a carriage? And he gets to independence and he looks around and he says this is like this rough frontier community.

This is where we're supposed to build Zion, you know, this doesn't seem like a place where Zion's going to flourish. So he gets upset about that. And so when he gets back from Missouri, he decides that Joseph Smith isn't a true prophet that the church isn't for him. He leaves and he begins publishing a series of letters in the Ohio Star that are highly critical of Joseph Smith that disparage and mock the church because Ezra's intent is to try to drive people away from the church. These letters are published in the Ohio Star. And so the Lord tells Joseph and Sidney Rigdon in January of 1832

that they need to do some damage control with this. They need to go out and try to refute some of the things that Ezra boosts sane. So you have that going on. You have Joseph and Sidney working on the translation of the Bible. They're in Hiram, Ohio at John Johnson's home. So, you have that going on. You have Joseph and Sidney working on the translation of the Bible. They're in Hiram, Ohio at John Johnson's home. And they're working, they're going through the Bible, asking questions, getting revelations

based on those questions, you know, making changes based off of inspiration. And you know, that leads to some great sections in the doctrine of covenants, like section 76, that come because of their work on this. But the funny thing is, is, you know, we look at what Joseph and Sinier doing on the Joseph Smith translation, we look at section 76 and we think, boy, you know, where would we be without this work? You know, Joseph's just pouring out all of this new light and knowledge that the Lord's giving him about the Bible, about the afterlife.

And we look at that and we rejoice in it. But there were some people in Hiram who looked at some of the things that Joseph was revealing including Section 76. And they thought it was blasphemous. They thought that who you know, who is this, you know, young kid who's proclaiming that he knows what's going on after this life. And so there begins to be some opposition to Joseph

that comes about in Hiram. And so in March of 1832, so just about a little over a month after Joseph and Sid Sydney see the vision of the celestial terrestrial and celestial kingdoms, a mob attacks Joseph and Sydney. As I mentioned, Joseph stain in the John Johnson home with Emma. He's there with his daughter, Julia and his son Joseph. They're both, they're twins, so they're both about 11 months old. Joseph Murdoch, the baby, has the measles at the time.

And so he, and he's, you know, up in the night, anyone who's had a baby who's sick, you know, what nights are like, you know, they're just awful. And so Emma's been up with the baby. Joseph's been up with the baby. And in the middle of the night, this mob burst into the house, you know, they kicked the door in and they grabbed Joseph, they dragged him out of the house,

they take him to a field, they try to force poison into his mouth, they beat him, they ultimately tar and feather him, you know, which was a way back in this time that was just kind of a way to humiliate someone, to try to show people that this person's not a valued member of society. At the same time, they take Sydney Rigden out of his home and they drag him to a field as well. And as they're dragging him along the ground,

his head is hitting rocks. And it really does some damage to Sidney and takes him several days to recover from this as it takes Joseph several days to recover as well. And one of the great things about this, if there's anything great that can come out of such a horrific incident, the next morning, Joseph's been up all night. When he goes back to the John Johnson home and Emma sees him, she about faints because she have first thinks that the tar that's on him is blood and that he's just this bloody mess. But then she has to spend the rest of the night trying to take the tar off of him, which is a very painful process. And so she's got this sick baby with the measles.

She's trying to get Joseph cleaned up. I mean, just, you know, if you want to think about a night from hell, I think that would be a night. But she's able to get Joseph cleaned up in the next morning he goes and he preaches a sermon in the Sunday meetings, which is remarkable in and of itself. I mean, if it was me and I just got beat up and had tarp poured over my body, I think I'd

be like, I think the Lord will understand if I take a break this Sunday, you know, I'm not sure I need to go preach, but Joseph felt strongly that he needed to do it. And so he preached. And according to some accounts, members of the mob were actually in the congregation that he's preaching to. And you'd have to think that they are feeling pretty sheepish about that, you know, knowing what they had done to him and then seeing him still stand up and testify about the truthfulness of the gospel. Do we know anybody in the in the group? Yeah, Simon's writer,

I believe, was in there. Um, boy, not I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know his skin would just be raw from taking it off. So I mean, incredibly painful. It's hard to kind of imagine what that would be like. And it affects Joseph for the rest of his life.

He says that the attack left him with an issue with his side. He never really specifies what it is. But if you know about the fight that William Smith has with Joseph in 1835, when they kind of get into it as brothers do, and William tackles Joseph, and Joseph says after that, you know, this trouble that I've had with my side since the mobbing flared up again because of what you did to me. So it's something that he's, he deals with for a long time. In terms of Sidney Rigden, there are some scholars that believe that he had enough trauma to his head during this attack that it did change his personality a bit. And we think that might have been something that was a lingering effect from this attack.

But I mean, he stays close friends with Joseph for several years after this. It's really not until the 1840s that you see kind of a divide creep up between Joseph and Sydney. But there are historians who believe that it did have a lasting, you know, effect on him because of the damage that he sustained in the attack. I think too, I wanted to ask you, we often refer to taking Joseph Smith out of his home with the Murdoch twins there right there and everything. But Sidney was he also did they also break into his cabin and didn't he also have is it five children?

And they're at the same time. Yeah, I don't know how many children he had at that time, but they did break into his home just as they did. You know where Joseph was living. And I mean, you know, with with Joseph Smith's children, you know, their their babies, their 11 months old, I doubt that Julia Murdoch remembered that attack, but I think Sydney had some older children, and you have to think that would be fairly traumatic too to see this, you know, happened to your father. But that's the other thing that I didn't touch on either

is that because the mob left the door open and the Johnson home after they took Joseph out, then Joseph Murdoch's exposed to that cold night air and it's just a few days after this that he dies. And when you think about this, that's a fairly traumatic thing for Joseph and Emma in part because they had already lost three children. And then here you have Joseph Murdoch dying as well. So you know that's four out of Joseph's first five children that have died. And it's interesting because when Joseph, when he's on his way back from Missouri in 1832, he writes a letter to Emma. And this letter is just so poignant, he talks in there about hearing from Martin Harris that

Hiram Smith's daughter had passed away. She was not quite yet three years old when she died. And Joseph talks about this in his letter to Emma and then he says, I think we can in some way sympathize with him. And I think what a grand understatement. You know, of course they could sympathize because they'd lost for their own children by this time. So, you know, when you're talking about everything that's going on in Joseph's life, it's not just the Bible translation, it's not just trying to build up Zion, it's not just getting these revelations, it's trying to deal with opposition, it's trying to deal with the deaths of his children. All of this is going on in the spring of 1832 when these revelations are given and it's just astounding to me that Joseph can carry on and

you know do something like establish the United Firm, this like temporal thing when he has all of this personal turmoil that's going on at the same time. And he's young, 26 or 27 years old. 26. I mean I can see someone well mature saying, oh, we've got to keep going. I used to, I was 27. I'd, I'm out. Yeah, you're thinking to tank if he was deceiving the people. If that's what was that, wouldn't you at this point say, this is not worth it. I've pretty had it never mind. No. Yeah, it's a testimony to what he believed. And, and it's, I don't want to say this wrong. It's amazing to me that the Lord is like, yeah, we got to keep going.

Here we go. We got to keep going. Oh, anyway, I just, it makes me appreciate these sections so much more when you just realize the term oil, the anguish going behind this. And I don't think anyone, I just think it's very difficult to fathom burying a child. When I hear about someone who has, it's an experience that they've described to me as a pain that they never knew existed. And to have very four of five children by this time in your life, I can't. I just, my, I can't. My mind can't comprehend it. If you read Hiram Smith's journal entry about the death of his daughter, it'll break your heart because he essentially says in their marry

expired in my arms such a day I've never before experienced. And you can just fill the pain that this hurt. It didn't matter how many children died. Each one was so painful for them. And I have to say, in this too, it's important to remember that Emma is going through all of this at the same time as Joseph is. And what strength she must have had because a week after this mobbing happens, Joseph and Sidney and Nulke Whitney leave for Missouri. And you know the Emma

is still grieving the death of her child. She's probably still traumatized from what happened in the home. And yet she has enough faith to tell Joseph, okay, you know, the Lord wants you to go to Missouri. So you need to go to Missouri. And I mean, just such great admiration for Emma as well, who's enduring all of this too. Absolutely. I think that it's nice to point out section 81, Hyrum Ohio, section 82, Jackson County, Missouri. That that's part of this backstory that you've just mentioned when I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember I remember is not a few days. If you're going to go to Missouri, you're going to be gone. What? Six days? Eight months. Yeah, he was gone about two and a half months. And part of that is, and we can talk about this too, when we get to a part of it, is as they're coming home from Missouri, there's an accident that happens with the stage coach

that they're riding in, and Nuel Kay Whitney ends up breaking his leg in several places and he can't travel. And so Joseph sends Sydney Rigdon back to Ohio, but then Joseph stays with Nuel Kay Whitney in this little town, Greenville, Indiana, for about six weeks until Newell's leg is well enough so that he can travel.

And I think about that because you know Joseph's anxious to get back home to Emma. He says as much in this letter that I was talking about that he writes to Emma. He talks about how much he misses her, how much he misses Julia, his daughter. And yet he's a loyal enough friend that he's not just going to leave Nuel K. Whitney by himself to recover. He's going to stay with Nuel even though it's a great inconvenience to him to do so. And I think that speaks a lot about Joseph's character as well. This book that we were talking about earlier, no brother Joseph, that's part of the title,

perspectives on Joseph's life and character. And I think you just showed us another piece of thousands that there are of who the man was. This is an incredible person. John, I would, I would want to stay with you, brother. I would, I would, I would, I'd probably, I'd probably hire out a live-in nurse for you. And I'd say, John, look, I got this nice. I'm going home. Yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I might not expect it to, but at least you could call. I mean, I, I don't know what the post office was like back then.

But how could Joseph communicate with Emma and even let him let her know that I got to stay with the new one his leg is broken. I mean, all of those things make everything take longer and be more difficult, you know? Yeah. But thanks Hank, I appreciate that. If I break my leg, I'll call you. Yeah, don't ask me. I'll text you.

Well, this is great to get some backdrop. It's really helpful. And why don't we, let's take a look at some of the verses of Section 81, Matt. And what would you like us to see here? Well, I think the first thing that is important with this section is the section heading says, the revelation, as it stands in our doctor and covenants today, says that it's two Frederickery Williams. But when the revelation was first given, it was actually given to a man named Jesse Gowse,

who is probably not familiar to most Latter-day Saints, I don't think. And so I think it's important to know a little bit about who Jesse was and why this revelation was given. So Jesse was a relatively recent new convert, and I say relatively because at this point in 1832, basically everybody's a new convert to the church, you know, but he had been baptized probably towards the end of 1831 or the first of 1832. He had been involved with several different religious traditions up to this point. He had been a member of the Society of Friends, what we would call the Quakers for a period of time.

He had family who were members of the Shaker religion, and so Jesse had actually joined the shakers as well in Ohio. But he joins the church, again, like I said, late 1831 early 1832. And we don't really know a whole lot about his relationship with Joseph Smith, but evidently Joseph considered Jesse to be kind of a rising star. Jesse to be kind of a rising star. There was something about Jesse that appealed to Joseph. And so in March of 1832, Joseph calls Jesse as well as Sidney Rigdon to be counselors to him.

And when they're established as counselors, this forms what is called at the time, the presidency of the high priesthood, which is kind of the forerunner to what we would call the first presidency today. And so this presidency, the high priesthood comes about, you know, if you're thinking about the organization of the church, you know, the Joseph Smith was appointed to be the first elder, the church. Oliver Cowdry was appointed to be the second elder when the church was organized. And then there were other individuals that were appointed to various priesthood offices, you know, elder priest, teacher, deacon. And in November of 1831, Joseph gets a revelation. And this revelation is part of what is section 107 today.

And in this revelation, he's told by the Lord that he needs to establish a president over the different priesthood offices. And the Lord says in this revelation that there needs to be a president over the high priesthood as well, or over the high priest. But this isn't just any, you know, kind of president calling as we would think of a president of a quorum today, because the revelation also says that the president of the high priesthood would be a prophet, a ser a revelator would be like unto Moses. And so you can tell that this is a pretty substantial thing. And so in January of 1832, at a conference that's held of the church in Amherst, Ohio, Joseph is appointed to be the president of the high priesthood, to have this calling. And so then just a few weeks later, he appoints Jesse Gows and Sydney

Rignan to be his counselors to him. So Jesse is one of Joseph's counselors and this revelation comes in March of 1832 at a time when Jesse is also serving as a scribe for Joseph. He's helping out a little bit, we think, with the translation of the Bible endeavor. So he's been helping Joseph out and then he receives this revelation, section 81, that kind of talks about what the duties of a counselor are. Now the reason why our version of the revelation today doesn't have Jesse's name in there is because we don't know everything that happened with Jesse. We know that he went with Joseph Smith to Missouri on this trip that we've been talking about in the spring of 1832.

We know he went on a mission with a Zebedee culture in August of 1832. And then the very next time that he appears in the historical record is in Joseph Smith's journal for December of 1832, where it just says that brother Jesse was excommunicated. And we don't know what happened. There's, there's nothing that says what Jesse did. We don't know if maybe he just fell away. Maybe he went back to the shakers. We just't know if maybe he just fell away. Maybe he went back to the

shakers. We just don't have any good information about that. But because he's excommunicated, this leaves Joseph without a counselor. And so in January of 1833, Fredra G Williams is appointed to be a counselor to Joseph. And before section 81 is published in the 1835 edition of the Doctrine and Covenants, Oliver Cowdry goes through and he crosses out Jesse's name, and he writes Frederick G. Williams' name above it. And so when the revelation is published, it's published as a revelation to Frederick G. Williams. And I think this may indicate that Joseph and Oliver and other church leaders saw this revelation not as something specific to Jesse, but more about what does it mean to be a counselor to Joseph Smith?

And so they felt comfortable putting Frederick's name in there because of that. Yeah, he just disappears. Jesse Gals, he just he just disappears Jesse Gowse. He's just got yeah Frederick G Williams He was one of the early converts of those of the four original original missionaries, right? They come through from New York to Kurtland Yeah, when Oliver Caldery is appointed to lead the mission to the Lamanites and so he and Parley P. Pratt Zyba Peterson Peter Whitmer Jr.. come to Kirtland and yeah, Fredra G. Williams is one of these early

individuals that is converted and after he's baptized, he says, hey, I want to join you guys. And so he actually goes with Oliver and the others to the unorganized territory beyond Missouri's Western border where they preach to a few Indian groups and then he's with them when they come back into Missouri as well. He said go getter, right? Yeah, I want to go with you. I want to go out there. We're ready to go.

I feel bad for Jesse. I wonder what happens to him. Any record of like him dying somewhere? Him. Yeah, we do have a record about that. So Jesse, he lives for a few more years after this. He dies around September of 1836. And at the time he dies,

he's living in Chester County, Pennsylvania, which actually is a location where the church had a branch, the Brandywine branch was in Chester County. I don't know if Jesse knew any of the church members living there at the time. He really does kind of disappear from the historical record. And so we don't know a whole lot about him what happened to him, but he does live until about 1836. Well, let me say a little bit too about Fredrige Williams. We've talked a little bit about him, about his conversion, and how he went with Oliver Caldry.

He was a Thompsonian physician at the time, so he practiced medicine according to the Thompsonian method, which was like using a lot of herbal medications, those types of things. He'd been ordained a high priest in October of 1831, and for much of 1832, he worked as a scribe for Joseph Smith. And so if you're familiar at all with Joseph's 1832 history,

the first account that we have from Joseph of the first vision, when that's copied into a record book, much of it is in Joseph's hand and the rest of it is in Fratergy Williams' hand. So he's working as a scribe for Joseph for much of 1832 before he's appointed to be a counselor to Joseph. I remember Dr. Harper telling us that was his personal favorite of the accounts of the first vision. Though it's not the most, what would you say? Literary, flowing. He said it's kind of raw.

So Frederick Dree Williams had a part in that, I guess. He did, yeah. And I would agree with Steve on that. I, the 1832 history, I love it in part because it's such a personal account of what that vision meant to Joseph personally, not just in terms of, you know, assuring him the restoration,

but in terms of, you know, I was forgiven of my sins. You know, I realized that Jesus Christ atonement is real. So I love it for that too. So we're saying having more than one account is wonderful, aren't we? It's great to have more than one account. You get, it's not a much better. No, you get just such a more well-rounded picture of what the first vision was, what it meant to Joseph Smith, what led him into the grove in the first place. So I'm actually really happy that we have four accounts from Joseph. I

wish we had more from them as well. One thing that I think is interesting in this section, and section 81 is verse 2, where it's talking about Joseph Smith, it says, under whom I have given the keys of the kingdom, which belong always under the presidency of the high priesthood. And I think it's interesting because when you read that, and it reads, you know, presidency of the high priesthood, I think we tend to think, oh, that means that the keys belong to the first presidency. But I think what the Lord is saying, I think he's using presidency here to refer more to the office of the president of the high priesthood.

So like you might say, Joe Biden was elected to the presidency of the United States. And I think they're using the term presidency here in that same way. And so it's saying, you know, the keys of the priesthood belong to the president of the church, which is kind of how we, you know, that's how we understand it today, that the president, the prophet holds all of the keys and then can delegate those keys to others. So I think that's that's an important point. I wonder if Matt that comes into play when Sidney thinks he's the one to take over in 1844. If he's thinking it was us, it was the group of us that received these keys.

You're saying, this is Joseph, which I think you're right on there. He mentions Joseph by name in the end of verse one, unto whom I have given the keys of the kingdom, which belong always unto the presidency, the office of president of the church. But I wonder if Sidney was kind of using that claim. I think certainly was, and it does get a little bit muddier, because in 1833 there's another revelation that's given in March, where it says that Sidney, Rigdon, and Fredrici that's given in March, where it says that Sidney, Rigdon, and Fredrici Williams are equal in holding the keys of the kingdom to Joseph.

But I don't think that necessarily means that they could operate separate from Joseph. I think that's saying that because they are members of the Presidency, the High Priestess, of the First Presidency, then when they operate with the president, with the prophet, then they're all kind of holding those keys. But I don't think it means that, you know, Sidney could go do whatever he wanted to with the church, the Frederick could go do whatever he wanted. The keys still reside in the prophet. I also really like verse three and four because I think this teaches us a lot about callings and about the blessings we can receive from callings and about the blessings that other people can receive when we do our callings because

essentially they're you know he's telling Frederick G. Williams and Jesse Gowes here in this verse he's saying this is what you're appointed to do. I want you to pray, vocally and public and private. I want you to proclaim the gospel. And then in verse four, it says, and in doing these things, that won't do the greatest good under thy fellow beings.

And we'll promote the glory of him who is your Lord. And I think, you know, for me, as I've looked at Colleen's that I've had in the church, when I've fulfilled those in a way that I think is pleasing to the Lord, you know, it's funny because right now I'm serving in a bishop brick of a YSA ward and I'll be perfectly honest. I'm an introverted person. I'm definitely not an extrovert. It's hard for me at times to get to know people. And a lot of people who serve in YSA wards and YSA stakes are not introverts. They're extroverts and that's one reason I think

why they're there because, you know, they can interact with the youth. And just to be honest, I've had kind of a tough time over the last few months being in this calling where I think, am I good enough to do this and I adequate enough? Am I really serving the YSAs in the way that I could be? And, you know, I've talked about that with my wife a lot and she just says,

you know, just be who you are. You know, you can't be anyone else. The Lord knows your personality. He knows what you're like. And yet, he still wanted you in this calling. So there's someone whose life he can bless in this calling. And maybe it's only a few people. But I think, you know, for me, that's kind of been an eye opener that, you know, kind

of what President Monson has said before that the Lord, you know, whom, whom the Lord call us, the Lord qualifyeth. And we may get called to things that are hard for us and we don't feel very good at them, but if we do our best, you know, we will bless the lives of others. And we may not even see that. It may not be something that we're,

that we're ever aware of. But here the Lord tells us it will be for the greatest good. And I firmly believe that. Yeah, I remember once I was, I'm an extrovert and I was called to be the financial clerk to the Bishop Rick and I mean, you don't do a lot of talk into people, right? I mean, it was mostly, and this was back in the day before, you know, you could pay your tithing fast offerings online.

So it was a lot of sitting there, you know, by myself, or with another clerk, or a member of the Bishop Rick, and just counting and enveloping and things. And I thought, I want to teach. I want to be, let me be out there with people. But I learned so much. I learned about church administration. I got to become closer with the bishop who really was, I got to become closer with the bishop who really was, it was really neat to the things he taught me. So, yeah, I think you're right on there. I stood in the office, which I had been appointed. I like just the phrase the greatest good there because I think that there's a lot of things

that we could do which are good. But there are so many other, what's the greatest good? And I think that's a question a lot of the early sections of the doctrine of covenants. Or remember all the Whitmer brothers, what should I do? Joseph and what did he tell him? GoPro claim the gospel and I see that in verse three and that is the greatest good. Go cry repentance. That's the greatest good that you can do. So it's a good question that all of us want to know what we'll have the most impact, what we'll do the most good, and then to take the Lord's direction on that and to believe him is the part where even if you're feeling like, why am I in this calling? Well, this is because this is what I was called to do. And for now, this is what the Lord wants me to do. This is the greatest good.

I like that. Yeah. I personally have always loved verse five, standing in the office, which I have appointed unto you. And then in every calling, we can do these three things. Sucker the week, whether you're the financial clerk or the YSA bishop, and the YSA bishopric,

or I don't know what what you're in the high council I think John you can all of us in it whatever calling we're in can do these three things sucker the week Lift up the hands which hang down and strengthen the feeble knees we could be looking for people in our ward in our branch who are Who are just needing a lift, right? Needing a help. I think I don't know. In every calling of the church, we can be doing it.

Yeah, it sounds like ministering there. Anybody can, can all of us are called to minister to each other. And that's, it reminds me of the baptismal covenant in Mosaic 18 that Alma the Elder gives them, you know, more and athls that more comfort those who stand in need of comfort. It's kind of others focused, which I like. Yeah, when I read that and I hear, you know, lift up the hands which hang down and strengthen the feeble knees. It brings in my mind like an image of someone who's just run a marathon, you know, and maybe someone who's not well-suited to run a marathon and as they're going across the finish line, they look just look like

they're they're going to collapse, you know, from what they've done. And I just think like spiritually in our day to day, there's so many people that I think are spiritually in a way where they're about ready to collapse. And if we can just you know, lift them up, if we can help strengthen them, if we can just provide a smile or If we can just provide a smile or a hello or how are you doing or attacks that let's them know that we're thinking about them, I think, you know, how much strength can we give someone who really needs that uplift and who really is struggling spiritually? Because I think a lot of us are, you know, they're just something. I don't know if it's COVID. I don't know if it's just the days that we're living in, the contention, you know, they're just something. I don't know if it's COVID, I don't know if it's just

the days that we're living in, the contention, you know, the polarization of society, but I feel like a lot of people are spiritually struggling and we really need to take that verse to heart, I think. I would add, you can use your social media account to uplift and strengthen people. There's just so many ways we can do it. Was it, I think it was Dr. Hewer, John, who said,

come on, these missionaries walked 800 miles to Missouri. We can walk 800 feet over to our neighbors and check in on them. He's like, we can do it. I know we can. Yeah. And it's interesting too that these, these phrases here, when people are really touched by, it's usually this kind of way touched by somebody remembered me,

somebody served me. It wasn't, uh, so and so shared this really cool scripture in a talk. And I love that. But people remember when they were remembered, somebody reached out, somebody texted me, and that's all of us can do that. So if I like that too. You know, just kind of going along with that, something when I was a teenager, you know, probably around 17 years old or so, I remember struggling with some things and wondering if the Lord loved me if I was good enough for the Lord. And one Sunday, I'm sitting in my front room just having some of these thoughts and there's a knock on the door and I open it up and it's my bishop.

And I don't remember what he said to me. I remember, you know, talking to him about some things, but I really can't remember what he said. But I will, I will never forget that he came by, that he acted on a prompting to come by, and that helped me to know, okay, the Lord is aware of me, and he does love me. And so it is, you know, very simple things sometimes that we do that can really lift someone up. Just I he'll hate this that I'm talking about him, but we've had Alex ball on the podcast before. And when my father passed away just recently, this last March, Alex came to my house. And when I answered the door, I was surprised to see him.

And he said, well, I said, Alex, what are you doing? He said, well, I was on my way home. Now, I know Alex lives north of BYU, and I live south of BYU. So unless Alex takes a very very strange root home, he was not on his way home. He took you know a long drive out of his way, came over and just said I've been thinking about you. I brought some goodies over for the kids and we sat in my doorway and chatted for you know just 10 15 minutes and he then he walked away and I watched him drive away and I

thought oh I needed that. I needed that. That really just gave me a boost that I really needed today. So sucker the weak lift up the hands that hang down and strengthen the feeble knees. I promise you, anyone listening, there is someone close to you who fits that description and we can go find them. Isn't it interesting too that those phrases? This isn't just, you know, in this revelation, the Lord says the same thing, and Isaiah 35-3, he says the same thing in Hebrews 12-12. And so this must be important to the Lord that we're there to support each other and there to help those who are feeling weak. If he's repeating it, you know, in almost all of the standard works.

I mean, Matt said, it's simple, it's just sending a text saying you're thinking about someone. Let's put this into practice right now, let's not wait. But make sure you come back. Yeah, because you want to hear the rest. No, that's great. I just think it's never been easier. I mean, I was in the car the other day and thought about somebody.

My hands were firmly at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock, but I could say, hey, Siri, send a text to and say this and thinking about you. And it's so easy today to check in with folks and see how they're doing. It's never been easier, right? And yeah, don't send me letters. I was at 10 and 2. I was driving safely, but I can talk to my phone and it'll do nice things.

I remember in CS Lewis's Screws Ape letters where you got a devil character writing to another devil character. He said, the thing you want to do is get them to to think about doing service in other continents that other people and other continents need their help and have them forget about their neighbor, right? If everyone just helped their neighbor, what does the Lord say? The earth is sufficient. There is enough. Please join us for part two of this podcast.

podcast.