Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Helaman 13-16 Part 2 • Sister Sheri Dew • September 9-15 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: September 4, 2024

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Keep listening for part two with Sherry Doe, Healman, chapter 13 through 60. It reminds me of something that Mike Wallace said when he interviewed President Hinkley for 60 minutes. You remember one of the questions he asked them, and I don't remember President Hinkley's perfect response, but I know the essence of it. He said, now, you're an old man, and the leaders of the church are old men. And President Hinkley just says, Now you're an old man and the leaders of the church are old men. And President Hinckley just says, isn't that great that we could benefit from the wisdom and from the experience of people who've lived a long time? And I had the chance to interview Mike Wallace a couple of times because of President Hinckley's biography. He was wowed by President Hinckley.

He even said to me, I've interviewed so many people in my life, Sherry, and he said, I've really never had an experience quite like the one I had with Gordon Hinckley is what he called him. And I said, well, tell me what you mean by that. And one of the things he said was, do you realize he did everything that he said he would do? And apparently that was kind of unusual to go interview somebody who did everything they said they would do. The most interesting comment he made, or at least it struck me in a powerful way was when after I had finished the second interview with him, I said to him, now, Mr. Wallace, and these interviews were just over the phone, he wouldn't

have been able to pick me out of a lineup. I said, Mr. Wallace, and these interviews were just over the phone. He wouldn't have been able to pick me out of a lineup. I said, Mr. Wallace, I'm assuming you would like to review how I'm going to quote you in President Hinckley's biography, and I would be happy to let you see how I'm going to quote you. And he said this, now here's this seasoned, kind of hardened journalist who had been around the world a billion times and he said Sherry that won't be necessary. I trust you Okay. Now think about it again couldn't picked me out of a lineup never had met me Only talked to me because President Hinckley asked him if he would

His statement was a comment about the experience he had had with President Hinckley. He trusted him and assumed if I was writing his biography, he could trust me too. Amazing, amazing some of these kinds of interactions that he learned in a couple of interviews. This is a man I can trust. I may not believe with his religion. I may not agree with his religion, but I can trust him. Matthew 16 1 One of my favorite verses about prophets is Mosiah 8, 18, where Ammon, not the missionary Ammon, but Ammon the Mulekite is teaching Limhi about seers. And it's very simple. He says, God has provided a means a way that man through faith might work mighty miracles and He become a great benefit to his fellow beings

And I think of the prophets of the last four presence of the church five present Benson present hunter President Hinckley, especially present Monson and President Nelson have all been a great benefit to me. That was my teenage years, my late teens, early twenties. I talk about President Hinckley the way my mom talked about President McKay, almost as a grandfather. I can't express how important President Hinckley was and is to my life today. Everything I am now he had an impact on.

I can think of specific talks that altered my trajectory. HINCK I'm glad you brought that up. I think we should read what came before in Mosiah 8, what you just read, the definition of a seer. When you read this definition, again, you say, who would you rather listen to than a seer? So, we're in Mosiah 8, and we're going to do 15 through 18. Maybe I'll skip around a little, but a seer is greater than a prophet. A seer is a revelator and a prophet also. A gift which is greater can no man have, except he should possess the power of God, which no man can. Yet a man may have great power given to him from God. Now listen to this definition.

But a seer can know of things which are past and also of things which are to come, and by them shall all things be revealed, or rather shall secret things be made manifest, and hidden things shall come to light, and things which are not known shall be made known by them, and also things shall be made known by them which otherwise could not be known." I've related this story before with the permission of Elder Brent H. Nielsen of the 70 until the beginning of August. He was in the presidency of the 70 and he is now at emeritus 70. He's given me permission to tell this story and President Nelson's given me permission to tell

it too. And maybe it's worth rehearsing because it absolutely puts a spotlight on what this definition of a seer says a seer can do. Elder Nielsen was the executive director of the missionary department in 2014. And Elder, then Elder Russell M. Nelson, was the chair of the Missionary Executive Council. The Missionary Executive Council or MEC directs the affairs of missionary work and directs the missionary department. I heard Elder Nielsen tell this story in a sacrament meeting. He said that one day, Elder Nelson walked in and held up his, in 2014, make note of the date. He walks in and holds up his smartphone. President Nelson, by the way, is a classic early adopter. He's an innovator, he's an early adopter,

and he's very, very technologically astute to this day. He walks in and holds up his smartphone and he says, we need to put one of these in the hands of every missionary. And can you imagine the discussion that ensued? Oh, wait a minute. They'll call home, they'll call their girlfriends and boyfriends, they'll get in trouble, they'll watch stuff online that they shouldn't watch, da-da-da-da-da. And it was quite a debate for apparently quite a long time, as Elder Nielsen describes this. And he says, but they decided to start to test it, to test some iPads or iPhones in a few missions. Yep, sure enough, every problem they had predicted happened,

every one. But they learned and they adapted and they figured out and talked about how will we help the missionaries not go onto sites they shouldn't go onto? How will we help them modulate their phone calls? How will we help them? So the test continued. And little by little, more and more missionaries and more and more missions were given smartphones. Now fast forward to January of 2020. Now it's President Russell M. Nelson who authorized every missionary worldwide to have a smartphone. 60 days later, COVID hits.

Elder Nelson said he was worried sick, again as the executive director of the missionary department, he was worried sick that missionary work would come to a total and screeching halt. And it's true, many missionaries came home and those in the field were largely confined to their apartments. But then he says, however, the missionary still in the field had smartphones and they got creative. He said, you know, in 2020, we still had 125,000 convert baptisms. And then he made this statement, Elder Nielsen did, I quickly learned that the Lord had prepared us for this day, prophets see around corners. That's where that phrase came from. And I think that we should be careful how we talk about this. I don't think he's

suggesting and I'm certainly not suggesting that prophets have some magical ability to see everything that's coming. I don't think they do. He is suggesting that prophets can see things we can't yet see, and that in a line-up-on-line way of revelation, they do see things we don't see. When President Hinckley went to Hong Kong in 1996 to dedicate that temple. Everybody in Hong Kong was wondering what's going to happen next year in 1997 when the government of Hong Kong reverts to Beijing. They're no longer governed by Great Britain. I was sitting in the back of a chapel in Hong Kong when President Hinckley was talking to a chapel full of missionaries, and they asked

him a question, what's going to change? Will anything change next year with the government changing? And President Hinckley said, we don't know, but we're going to go forward with faith. And we know the Lord's going to lead us, and we're dedicating a temple this week, and we're going to go forward with faith. I don't think prophets seeing around corners says they can see everything coming. I do think they see things before we see them. And they can see trends. I do think they can.

And sometimes I think they do see around a corner. And that's why they're a prophet. That's the very definition of a seer. We read in Mosiah 8. What do you two think? Well, I know my friend John, by the way, loves to speak about the watchman in the tower. He can't see everything, but he can sure see it before you can. Yeah, the watchman looks down with his old-fashioned wooden binoculars and says, Behold, danger approacheth. Two o'clock. Prepare thyself. And they look up and say,

Behold, danger approacheth. Two o'clock, prepare thyself." And they look up and say, we don't see any danger. And he says, well, of course you don't. You're on frame of picket maintenance. I'm a seer. I'm on the tower. I can see you. It's Ezekiel 3.17 where that phrase comes from. I've given thee to be a watchman unto Israel. Hear the word from me and then give it to them. We get this synonym for a prophet, a watchman on a tower, because they can see things coming. I like that, Hank.

They don't see everything, but they can see what's coming. Sherri, when a student comes to me with the struggle that we talked about earlier, I frequently tell them that Article of Faith 9 has not been rescinded. We believe in what God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe He will yet reveal many great and important things. I said, no one's ever stood up and said, well, all the great and important things are out. We're now going to do good and trivial. No, there's so much more to come. And President Nelson has shown that. Absolutely. If we look at everything that's happened in the last six years, it's pretty

extraordinary. I still remember that when he became president of the church in 2018, that there were several national news reports. One of them came from the Associated Press. I thought it was funny at the time, but it really looks hilarious now when they said, well, this is an aging gentleman and we don't see anything changing in the church. Verse 28, back in Helaman 13, this bears having a brief mention. We need to get to chapter 14 because the prophecies about the Savior are so important, so we need to get there before we run out of steam. Look at what we see here. Ye will lift him up, and ye will give unto him of your substance. Ye will give unto him of your gold and of your silver,

and ye will clothe him with costly apparel. And because he speaketh flattering words into you, and he saith it all is well, then he will not find fault with him." We read that a minute ago, but I thought it might bear repeating because, granted, I've been involved with words in my life. We care a lot about words. I mean, my goodness, we were printing words when Joseph was running from mops and we're printing them in the Millennial Star in England and we lugged a printing press across the plains so that we could keep printing, which is how the Deseret News started being reprinted again, along with many, many other things. We care about words. I've been fascinated for years about a recurring pattern in the Book of Mormon talking about flattery. If you look at the description of

every single Antichrist, Korahor, Amalekiah, Sherem, Alma the Younger before he repented, and so on and so forth. Every time it talks about the power of language they use to deceive the people and lead them away. And almost every time it uses the word flattery. Going back to our framing about what can we learn from Samuel the Lamanite that is very applicable today, wow, what is flattery? It's saying what people want to hear. That's what it is. How often do we get caught up today with trying to figure out, okay, what's even true? We're in the middle of a really tough political cycle. It's hard to know from anybody what is true.

And Jacob actually taught, this is in Jacob 7, that flattery is designed to overthrow the doctrine of Christ, that flattery draws its power from the power of the devil. That is Jacob chapter 7 verses 2 and 4. That catches my attention for us to be careful about not immediately succumbing to the flattering words we may want to hear. And that's an interesting contrast because prophets don't always say what we want to hear. President Benson used to have a phrase that he would use from time to time, and I think it's actually very charming. He would say, I have not come here to tickle your ears. Isn't that a great phrase? It reminds me of what King Benjamin said, I have not commanded you to come up hither to trifle, which the words, which I shall

speak. Now, let me quote something from Elder Christopherson, if I could. He said this in 2021, me quote something from Elder Christopherson if I could. He said this in 2021, Our day is a replay of Book of Mormon history in which charismatic figures pursue unrighteous dominion over others, celebrate sexual license, and promote accumulating wealth as the object of our existence. The best the Anything But Christ crowd can offer is the unfounded claim that sin does not exist or that if it exists, it ultimately has no consequences. But I can't see that argument getting much traction at the final judgment. I point out flattery as a really important thing. It's a tool of the adversary. The adversary knows

how powerful language is. That flattery is a tool of the adversary. And when Jacob says it's designed to overthrow the doctrine of Christ because it draws its power from the power of the devil, wow, that's a heads up. Flattery, the etymology is giving a pleasing but false impression. Deceitful praise. I'm looking at Helaman 13.27 that we already read and he doesn't use the word flattery, but that's what it is. Telling people what they want to hear. Walk after the pride of your heart, walk after the pride of your eyes, do whatsoever your heart desires. That's flattery.

Do whatever you want. Verse 28, because he speaketh flattering words unto you. When you were saying that, it made me think, here are people trying to find faults with living prophets. Have they looked at the lives of the other options out there. In fact, Sherry, after having read Profits Can See Around Corners and hearing you teach before, the one thing I wanted you to do is what you did. Who else would you rather put in charge of your life? And you went through that list. Name anybody. CEO, journalist, athlete, influencer, actress, where other options are out there

that you'd rather have in charge. That's why I love the word disciple. I would just want to be a disciple of Christ because that is the best option we've got. The prophets have never said they were perfect. The question is who are the prophets trying to follow and who is leading them? They are being led by Christ. I totally love that, John, because yeah, who are they being led by? And going back to what we said earlier, who have they been prepared by? Watch the preparation that the Lord has led them through for the moment when they're leading us. Hank, I loved what you said about the prophet conferring with the room full of other prophets, seers, and revelators. And I think about that group. And I know Elder Holland said something

about that group. And I think you have it. Could you share that? Yeah. This talk is called Prophets in the Land Again, October 2006. A great talk to go listen to this week. He says, as the least of those who have been sustained by you to witness the guidance of this church firsthand, I say with all the fervor of my soul that never in my personal or professional life have I ever associated with any group who are so in touch, who know so profoundly the issues facing us, who look so deeply into the old, stay so open to the

new, and weigh so carefully, thoughtfully, and prayerfully everything in between? I testify that the grasp this body of men and women have of moral and societal issues exceeds that of any think tank or brain trust or comparable endeavor of which I know anywhere on the earth. I bear personal witness of how thoroughly good they are, of how hard they work, and how humbly they live. It is no trivial matter for this Church to declare to the world prophecy, seership and revelation, but we do declare it. It is true light shining in a dark world and it shines from these proceedings." He knows how to

say it. Boy, that's so good. That is so powerful. I literally have made lists of people trying to think of, is there anybody I really would trust more to give me counsel from a life? I can't come up with anybody. And I've made long lists many, many times, sometimes on a long flight. Okay. Think of anybody you can think of, Sheri. It doesn't happen. I want to read this statement from President Hinkley, if I could. He said it this way. We have only the Lord's agenda. There are those who criticize when we issue a statement of counsel or warning, please know that our pleadings are not motivated by any selfish desire. Please know that our warnings are not without substance and reason. Please know that

the decisions to speak out on various matters are not reached without deliberation, discussion, and prayer. Please know that our only ambition is to help each of you with your problems, your struggles, your families, your lives. Nat. Alright, let's move to 14. Julie. When we read these chapters in Helaman, my goodness, this piece on prophets is so powerful. But that's not the end of Samuel's incredibly persuasive teaching. Let's go to chapter 14 because it's a remarkable chapter. Here at a force, Samuel has been prophesying in large measure about the Nephites. Here's what's going to happen

if you don't repent. Now he begins to prophesy about Christ. And he does it with amazing detail and great specificity. I mean, he tells the Nephites, the Savior is going to be born in five years. How often are we allowed to know timing? Now, actually, the Nephites have been told this for a long time when He's going to come, but He's saying in five years, He's really going to come. There will be great lights in the heaven. There will be a day and a night and a day with no darkness, a new star, signs and wonders. It shall come to pass, this is 14 verse 7, that ye shall all be amazed and wonder, insomuch that ye shall fall to the earth. Samuel repeats that the angel has commanded him to prophesy these things and to

cry repentance. So again, he's either prophesying what comes into his heart or what the angel is saying. Then he starts to teach them about Christ and the Father's plan. He repeats that the Nephites are angry with him. He is after all speaking from the top of a wall. How did somebody not go up to the top of the wall and just yank him down? This is not a quick sermon. He's talking about the Savior who's going to come, that He will die, that salvation may come, that the Savior's death will bring about the resurrection and redeem all mankind from the first death. It says, but behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth mankind, yea, even all mankind, and bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord.

And then he says, but those who don't repent will be hewn down and cast into the fire, and there cometh upon them again a spiritual death, a second death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness. What do you think we are to make, Hank and John, of this teaching, the combination of prophesying about the Savior's birth followed by a discussion, essentially, of the plan of salvation? How does this strike you? I wonder, in Helaman 13, if he's got someone's attention. There's somebody who's thinking, I do need to repent. And now 14, here's how you can repent and why you can repent. The coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father, heaven and earth.

If you'll believe on his name and repent, that maybe there's someone who he got their attention at 13 and he's now following up with 14. Wouldn't it be fun to know if a crowd had gathered helmets and shields and breastplates on come and yank him down before he had time to give a pretty long sermon? Maybe a crowd had gathered. He's going to keep going because what do prophets do? They testify of Christ. This is how you grab onto the rod and hold onto the rod until you get to the tree and partake of the atonement of Jesus Christ. I love the question. Why would this discussion of the plan of salvation come afterwards? The whole idea of

God, a divine being that would die, the whole idea of a God, a divine being that would die when he says in verse 14, I give unto you a sign of his death and then verse 15, for behold he must die that salvation may come. And then gives this explanation of why a Redeemer comes to suffer for our sins. It reminds me of Elder Achmed Corbett's talk where someone asked him, well, why would he have to die? And he said, I gave a different answer than I thought. I had to explain like this of a substitutionary atonement. He would suffer and die for our sins, but that's to bring us back into the presence of God. Clearly, Samuel is absolutely trying to, in fairly concise language, teach the plan of salvation and the plan always called for a savior.

The savior is the central point of the plan of salvation, which is why the savior is the central point of the temple, which has to be, I'm assuming why President Nelson keeps saying, please go to the temple. Please spend as much time in the temple as you can, because it's all about Jesus Christ, and it feels like in kind of a nutshell, he's trying to tell the people who will listen, and maybe it's because he knows he won't have much time on the wall, he's trying to tell them this is the plan, and maybe it's because he knows he won't have much time on the wall. He's trying to tell them, this is the plan, and the Savior's at the heart of the plan. Isn't it God the Father who determined that the Savior would be the central piece of His plan? That we would need a Savior to help us, strengthen us, allow us to repent,

help us have strength we do not have on our own. We would have to have a savior. Our friend John Hilton, the third, has pointed out in an article he wrote entitled Samuel's Nephite Sources, in Heav'n 14 verse 12, that also you might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the creator of all things from the beginning. That is a direct quote, 21 words from King Benjamin. We can at least see in this example that he had read some of these past prophets.

We can put a link in our show notes to the entire article. It gives us a little insight to where did he get this information about Christ. Revelation and also he's reading past prophets. And I think that's something prophets do, Sherri. They study the words of those who preceded them. Absolutely. And they build upon each other. They're consistent with each other and they build upon each other. What Samuel then does is, after he's told him about the Savior's birth, he then prophesies the events surrounding the Savior's death. That the sun, the moon, and the stars refused to give light for three

days. And again, these are not your ordinary prophecies. These are very, very detailed and specific. Right. This isn't very vague. You're going to know. Yeah, this isn't just a prophecy about you need to be good boys and girls. This is, no, the sun, the moon, and the stars are not going to give light. They're going to refuse to give light for three days.

There's going to be thundering and lightning for many hours. The earth will shake and tremble. The solid mass of the earth will be broken up. There will be tempests and mountains laid low, valleys that become mountains, highways broken up, cities left desolate. I mean, it's very specific. Graves will open and yield many of the dead and many saints shall appear unto many. The darkness is going to cover the face of the whole earth for three days. Then Samuel tells them the purpose of these signs. Here are the signs and here's why there's

going to be signs. This is 14 verse 29, to the intent that whosoever will believe might be saved and that whosoever will not believe, a righteous judgment might come upon them. That's a very interesting distinction. Some of you are going to believe and this is going to save you and those of you don't believe and therefore any judgment will be righteous. Then Samuel makes a stunning, we could probably call it an indictment. Whosoever perisheth, perisheth unto himself.

And whosoever doeth iniquity, doeth it unto himself. For behold, you are free, you are permitted to act for yourselves. For behold, God hath given unto you a knowledge, and he hath made you free." How do you think we begin to quantify all we learn in this one sermon from Samuel the Lamanite to the Nephites? It's now Samuel the Lamanite trying to get through to the hard-hearted Nephites It's now Samuel the Lamanite trying to get through to the hard-hearted Nephites while he's standing on a wall. I want to pair that with a different question.

Why do you think Mormon included Samuel the Lamanite in his compilation of the Book of Mormon? We don't see him any other time? It comes on the scene and then off pretty quickly? Yeah. time comes in on the scene and then off pretty quickly yeah it's enter stage right and leave stage left and boom why do you think he did that why did he edit samuel in when a whole lot of others didn't make it into the book of mormon i don't know if this is where you're headed sherry but one thing for me is skipping ahead to 3rd Nephi

23. The Lord says, Nephi, can I see the records you've kept? And Nephi brings them out and he says, this is 3rd Nephi 23.9, I commanded my servant Samuel the Lamanite that he should testify unto this people. Was it not so? Verse 10, yes, Lord, Samuel did prophesy according to thy words. Verse 11, how be it that you have not written this thing. And he talks specifically about Samuel's prophecy in verse 25, the grave shall be opened. I wonder if Mormon sees the third Nephi 23 records that whatever he used to to create 3rd Nephi 23 and he thought all right this one must be important the Lord himself brought it up and my favorite part of this is and it came to pass that Nephi remembered that this thing had not been written he's

actually I was just about to do that right like Sherry said this said, this prophecy, it's so big, it's so grandiose, it's astronomical, it is impossible to fake. How do you trick somebody into darkness for three days everywhere? A night without darkness. Yeah, it is so big. I also love anything about light is fascinating to me in the scriptures. The birth of Christ is all these signs of light and the death of Christ is all these signs of darkness. When Jesus comes in 3rd Nephi 11, first things out of his mouth, I am Jesus Christ whom the prophets testified should come to the world and behold I am the light and the life. And I wonder if there was a collective oh We get it because boy when God does an object less and watch out

You can only imagine three days of darkness and then when he comes his first metaphor about himself as I am the light of the world Because they've figured out how hard it is to go through life when it's totally dark. I wondered a couple of things as I've thought about why would Mormon and Moroni is the editors, why would they have included it? He gets plopped into the middle of the storyline and then taken out and on we go. And then he's gone. He's our Lamanite prophet, as you said when we began.

This is different than any other prophet so far in the Book of Mormon. I've wondered, did they occlude him because of his very specific, articulate prophecy about the Savior? Was he an unlikely source, maybe? Sounds different. Sometimes when you hear it differently, it sounds different. Is it because we see a prophet preaching in very difficult conditions and still having impact? We know there were those, and it says there were even many who heard Samuel preach who did repent and were baptized. Now, the more part of the people didn't believe, but that would be like today. The more part of the people didn't believe, but that would be like today. The more part of the people don't believe, but many believe. We see a prophet preaching in very difficult adverse conditions, and yet people believed,

and they heard a prophet's voice, and they repented, and were baptized. Is it because we see someone of one culture being sent to influence that of another culture? I like that message too. I think that's really powerful. But when all is said and done to me, it's a very compelling reason to study his prophecy is that we're seeing a prophet prophesy and testify right before the Savior came in the Meridian of Time. Well, the application for us should be powerful to say, what can we learn from these verses

about what the people were doing, about what this prophet taught and tried to bring about, and how could it help us as we prepare for the second coming? President Nelson has said again and again that the most important thing taking place on earth today is the gathering of Israel. I love something he said when he described what the gathering means, because you can think about the gathering of Israel and think, I don't even know how to get my head around that. And I certainly can't figure out where I fit into it.

Pete Or an 11-year-old, you're going to tell 11-year-olds that are now coming into Young Women's or becoming a deacon and the way he said it was so, oh, okay, I get that. Mary When he said, anytime you help anyone step onto the covenant path or take steps along the covenant path, you're helping gather Israel, an 11-year-old, to your point, John, can grab onto that and can say, oh, I can do that. I can invite my friend to primary. I can be nice to my brother.

I'm gathering Israel. There is something really profound in trying to learn from the past and say, how can I inform our today so that we can better help in the gathering and we can better prepare for what lies ahead of us because the Savior is going to come again and all of us should be in a mode of preparation. I think these teachings of Samuel the Lamanite are particularly appropriate and meaningful for those of us living in 2024. Well, you've shown us in 13 and 14 something I've never seen, which is, 13, let me get your attention. 14, now that I have your attention, let me point you to the light. And that's a true prophet right there. I need

to get your attention now that I will point you to him. Every prophet that we've talked about today points us to Christ. I like how you summarize that. In 15 and 16, and we've spent most of the time on 13 and 14, but in 15 and 16, there are other gems for sure. But that's exactly what he's doing. I would say 15 and 16 are, look at all the different responses to a prophet. Little bit of aftermath. Yeah. You have arguments against him and you have some repenting, following the commandments. If someone wanted to, they could just walk through 15 and 16

and list all the potential responses you'll see to a prophet. Look at 16 verse 12, for example. There was but little alteration in the affairs of the people. Save it were the people began to be more hardened in iniquity. Which is sad. It reminds me of Peter on the day of Pentecost. There's like four reactions. He gives this amazing sermon in Acts chapter two. Some were amazed, some were perplexed, some mocked, some believed. I told my kids when they went on missions, you know, you can expect an assortment of those. Sherry, we know we only have you for a couple more minutes. If I'm a listener at home, I've been following along in our chapters here. What do you hope for me?

I have general conference coming up here in less than a month. I have a prophet who turned 100 years old. 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5

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1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 1.5 ask the Lord if it would be possible for you to have another witness of the Spirit that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints truly is led by a prophet of God and actually fifteen prophets, seers, and revelators. If you don't know, if you can quite believe that, there are things that prophets have said that disturb you, that upset you, that you just can't find it in your heart to believe at this point. I would invite you to very seriously approach the Lord and ask him to guide you in your

feelings, in your heart and in your mind, and seek to have a witness of the Spirit that there is a prophet on the earth. I had an interesting experience many years ago. I was a young member of Barbara Winder's Relief Society General Board. This will really date me. I was in my early, early 30s and I was called to her board and I went with her on an assignment. I think she could see that she had called somebody really young who needed some individual tutoring and she took me with her on a weekend trip to the Bay Area. We stayed that weekend with the Oakland Steak Relief Society president who told me this story. She said that every morning she went walking with some of her neighborhood friends, none of them Latter-day Saints. And they just had great conversations as they walked through the

hills of Oakland and that one of their friends, she called her deep thinking friend. And she said, invariably, if there was a lull in the conversation, this friend would bring up some big issue. How are we going to solve crime and how are we going to solve all these different things? And she would bring up a big issue. Rick Souders world hunger. Dr. Julie Kinn Yeah, world hungry. And she said one morning, it just so happened that when she went to the corner where they met to walk, it was just her and the deep thinking friend. None of the others were there that morning. They start off on their walk, and after a little bit, this friend turned to

her and said, can I tell you about something I've been thinking about? She said, I know you're a religious woman. Have you read the Bible? Yes, I've read the Bible. She said, I've been reading the Bible. I've decided that the answer to all of our big problems, you know what we need? We need a prophet like they had in the Bible. This Stake Relief Say presence said to Sister Winder and to me, she said, I thought to myself, oh my gosh, how do I even respond to this? So she took a big gulp and she said, well, actually, we have a prophet. This was in the days when President Ezra Taft Benson was the president. She said, his name is Ezra Taft Benson. He lives in Salt Lake City, and I

can tell you where and when you can listen to him. She said this woman was bowled over by the notion that there was such a thing as a prophet. And I would say, there's so many things in this complicated era in which we're living that can bring a feeling of anxiety and fear and worry. The greatest security we have, the greatest safety blanket any of us have is a prophet. So to those who don't yet believe we have a prophet, I would invite them to ask, get on their knees however many times it takes to say, Lord, I want to believe, help me thou my non-belief. Because when you really believe that you have the

anchor of a prophet on this earth, it changes the way you look at the world. I would invite anybody listening to either reconfirm or to seek to know if we're led by prophets because it is a literal game changer. I know, I absolutely know we have prophets and I can tell you from experience that the closer you look at them and their lives, the more it's clear that we do have prophets and that God has been the one preparing them to lead us. I know that's true. Sheri, thank you for spending your time with us today. John, these chapters have changed for me. Yeah, and appreciation for our living prophets too. I've heard you say it, Hank, before.

Look at the prophets in the Scriptures. They did not have easy lives. Who has an easy life anywhere in the Scriptures? Sherry shared with us some of those that they don't have easy lives either. I'm excited for General Conference to listen to what the Lord puts into the hearts of the prophets. Speak the words of the Lord which he doth put into my heart. Sherri, thank you.

My pleasure. Thank you so much for the opportunity. We have loved having you here on Follow Him. With that, we want to thank Sister Sherri Dew for spending her time with us. We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sorensen. Thank you, Shannon. Our sponsors, David and Verla Sorensen, and every episode we remember our founder, Steve Sorensen. We hope you'll join us next week. We're starting a new book, Third Nephi, on Follow Him. Before you skip to the next episode, I have some important information.

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