Follow Him: A Come, Follow Me Podcast - Mosiah 11-17 Part 1 • Dr. Ryan Sharp • May 13-19 • Come Follow Me

Episode Date: May 8, 2024

Send us a Text Message.What do you do with prophets? Dr. Ryan Sharp teaches the parallels between Abinadi and modern-day prophets, who teach, warn, and encourage us to increase our ability to receive revelation, follow God's commands, and follow Jesus Christ and invites us to consider how we receive the words of prophets.SHOW NOTES/TRANSCRIPTSEnglish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM20ENFrench: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM20FRPortuguese: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM20PTSpanish: https://tinyurl.com/podcastBM20ESYOUTUBEhttps://youtu.be/-BzbZhO6KI4ALL EPISODES/SHOW NOTESfollowHIM website: https://www.followHIMpodcast.comFREE PDF DOWNLOADS OF followHIM QUOTE BOOKSNew Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastNTBookOld Testament: https://tinyurl.com/PodcastOTBookWEEKLY NEWSLETTERhttps://tinyurl.com/followHIMnewsletterSOCIAL MEDIAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/followHIMpodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/followhimpodcastTIMECODE00:00 Part 1–Dr. Ryan Sharp00:03 What to expect in this episode01:21 Introduction of Dr. Ryan Sharp03:20 Abinadi “fans the flame of testimony and courage”05:20 President Packer’s “Therefore what?”06:31 Mosiah 11:1-5,15 - Noah’s character and actions07:35 Mosiah 11:20-26- Abinadi cries repentance (a chiasmus)10:31 Mosiah 11:270-29 - Abinadi and Moses12:45 Mosiah 11:22-27 - The Lord’s people13:55 1 Kings 18 - “How long will ye halt between two opinions?”14:34 What do you do with prophets?20:05 President Nelson “Increase your capacity to receive personal revelation.”24:43 “Not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ.”27:16 President Nelson and revelation29:44 “We must learn how to distinguish between the King Noahs and Abinadis”33:53 Mosiah 12:1, 19 - Abinadi boldly returns35:33 Mosiah 13:3-7 Abinadi is safe until he completes his message37:41 Mosiah 17-18 Alma preaches Abinadi’s words39:05 Abinadi and Alma’s influence41:33 Did Abinadi know he was successful?42:32 Mosiah 13:9 - Did Abinadi know he would die for his testimony?43:09 Dr. Sharp shares a story of a single convert Nelly10:03:53 The macro and micro plan of salvation01:05:57 End of Part 1 - Dr. Ryan SharpThanks to the followHIM team:Steve & Shannon Sorensen: Cofounder, Executive Producer, SponsorDavid & Verla Sorensen: SponsorsDr. Hank Smith: Co-hostJohn Bytheway: Co-hostDavid Perry: ProducerKyle Nelson: Marketing, SponsorLisa Spice: Client Relations, Editor, Show NotesJamie Neilson: Social Media, Graphic DesignWill Stoughton: Video EditorKrystal Roberts: Translation Team, English & French Transcripts, WebsiteAriel Cuadra: Spanish Transcripts"Let Zion in Her Beauty Rise" by Marshall McDonaldhttps://www.marshallmcdonaldmusic.com

Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Follow Him. My name is Hank Smith. I'm your host. I'm here with my shining co-host, John, by the way, and our guest, Dr. Ryan Sharp. John, we're looking at a Benedi today. I know you love the Book of Mormon. I know you love this story. Tell me what you're looking forward to. I think a Benedi changed the world of the Nephites, like from here to the rest of the Book of Mormon. I'm just excited to talk about him and his impact, even though at the time, he may not have known that his impact would last that long. All the way to the coming of Christ, 3rd Nephi. You have this convert family that comes back to Abinadi. Like I said,

John, we're with Dr. Ryan Sharp. He's been here before. Ryan, what are we looking forward to today? What do you have prepared for us? One of the biggest challenges with this block of scriptures is the fact that there are so many chapters. We're looking at Mosiah 11 through 17. In most of the other blocks, you've got three or four chapters. What I thought we would do is maybe divide it into two parts. And in the first part, look at the narrative, the storyline. What can we learn from Abinadi, the person and the experience and the impact that he makes to connect it with what John said. And then in the second part, let's dive into the actual discourse, his teachings, the words and the impact that those words have. It sounds great to take a

30,000-foot view and then zoom in on some specific verses. John Ryan was with us last year, but he may be new to some of our listeners. Can you introduce him for us? Dr. Ryan Sharp, he had taught in seminaries and institutes for 10 years before joining a religious education at BYU in 2018. He has a bachelor's degree from BYU and a master's and PhD from the University of Utah. He loves teaching, writing on scripture and other research interests include organizational behavior and the development of psychological capital. I want to ask him about that later. He's the author of the book, Meeting Christ in the Book of Mormon, as well as several articles and book chapters related to restored

scripture, pedagogical scholarship aimed at improving teaching, learning, and organizational behavior, and less formally, infinitely more important, the only way to truly understand Dr. Sharp, he says, is to know his wife Jessica as the most important and influential partner in all of his professional and ecclesiastical assignments. They are the very proud and often overwhelmed parents of six energetic boys. Wow. So welcome father of six energetic boys. Thanks for joining us again. Thank you.

Good to be here. We love having you. I bet that's a pretty high food bill. It is. It is. Six boys. Now I have four and I know that we're broke. I watch them eat my paycheck.

Ryan, tell us about Jessica, this most influential partner. She really is remarkable. Her maiden name is Farish. She is from Utah County. She grew up in Mapleton and then Highland. The family joke, her mom used to say to my father-in-law, you can take me anywhere you want in the world as long as it's within Utah County.

We've been here in Utah County for our married life and we love it and she's a remarkable woman. That's fantastic. Anywhere in the world in Utah County, right? Lehigh down to Santaquin. You have a lot of choices there. Ryan, let me read from the Come Follow Me manual and let's jump in. It says, Abinadi was only one man, testifying against a powerful king in his court.

His words were rejected, for the most part, and he was sentenced to death. Yet his testimony of Jesus Christ, who is the light that can never be darkened, sparked something inside the young priest Alma, and that spark of conversion slowly grew as Alma brought many others to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. The flames that killed Abinadi eventually died out, but the fire of faith that his words created would have a lasting influence on the Nephites and on the people who would read his words today.

Most of us will never face quite what Abinadi did because of our testimonies, but we will all have moments when following Jesus Christ is a test of our courage and faith. Perhaps studying Abinadi's testimony will fan the flames of testimony and courage in your heart as well. Ryan, with that, let's do that 30,000 foot view you talked about, Mosiah 11 through 17. I want us to think about a quick question. As I talk to my students, I'll usually ask them as we start reading the Abenadi story, how do they picture Abenadi? What does he look like? Is he this absolutely shredded 90-year-old man standing before them like the Arnold Freberg

painting that we have? And for most of them, that's him. That's what Abenadi looks like. A very trim Santa Claus. Yeah. What I like to do with students is put up a sequence of artistic representations of a Benedi, and for the most part, they kind of follow Freberg's image of this old man, always shredded, but this old man who's just ripped and standing boldly, sometimes bound before Noah and the priests.

But there are some artistic representations that show him as a younger man. That leads to the question for the students, so how old is Abinadi? Based on the text, how old is Abinadi? And then obviously we conclude we don't know. He could have been an older man, he could have been a younger man. To quote President Packard, therefore what? So why even spend time on that? And I usually use this as an opportunity to talk about, first of all, the value of art in helping us visualize some of these powerful scenes in scripture, but also the caution that when it comes to studying scripture,

let's not let art be the primary influencer in how we interpret. I do think it's important to make sure we're letting the details of the text or the historical documents paint the picture for us. That's excellent Ryan. I think art does influence the way that I see scripture stories and church history stories. My friend Anthony Sweatt says listen artists often aren't trying to give you the depiction of the facts, the records actually say they're trying to give you a message we can be careful saying oh wait isn't it like this because I've seen it in a painting yeah and I think it's important to appreciate it especially somebody with zero artistic ability I hesitate to even write or draw on the whiteboard in my

classes I don't have that gift and so I'm so thankful for it. But I do think it's important for us to keep in mind, let's focus on the text and what the text says. In chapter 11, we're introduced to Noah. He did not walk in the ways of his father. We read in verse one. And then I'm going to quickly highlight some of the statements here that help us see what's going on. In verse 2,

he did not keep the commandments, he did walk after the desires of his own heart, he had many wives and concubines, he caused his people to commit sin, he did much which was abominable in the sight of the Lord, they did commit whoredoms in all manner of wickedness. If you jump over at the end of verse 4, he changed the affairs of the kingdom. Remember, he gets rid of the old priests and he calls his friends and they become the new priests. All of them in verse 5 were lifted up in the pride of their hearts. In verse 6, they were supported in their laziness, their idolatry, their whoredoms. If we jump over to verse 14, he gained a pass that he placed his heart upon riches,

and he spent his time in riotous living with wives and concubines, and they did spend their time with harlots.' In verse 15, he became a wine-bibber." Anyway, so you get a pretty dark depiction of what's happening there. The sin, the wickedness, you get this heavy description of what's happening there. But I think it's important to keep in mind This is why Abinadi is coming in. This is why in verse 26

It says, and it came to pass that there was a man among them whose name was Abinadi and he went forth and began to prophesy. He came in to cry repentance unto this people who were living this really hedonistic lifestyle and seeking pleasure and lust and riches and their hearts are set upon all of these worldly things. So it's against that backdrop of this wickedness, this sin, people obsessed with pleasure, lust, riches, money, all of these things where we get in Mosiah 11 verse 20, and it came to pass that there was a man among them whose name was Abinadi. And I love that phrase, a man among them. It seems like he's living

there, does he know these people, does he have previous relationships with them, was he maybe involved in the previous regime, perhaps was he a priest? We don't know. We don't have a lot of that information. But Abinadi comes in and obviously his message to this people who are living in sin is repent. Over and over again, if you look at the end of verse 20, except they repent, I will visit them in mine anger, the Lord says. In verse 21, except they repent and turn to the Lord their God. And then again, up in verse 23, it's your kind of path that except this people repent and turn into their Lord. And then 25, except they repent in sackcloth and ashes.

It's this message of repentance. And I think it's significant in Don Perry's book entitled Poetic Parallelisms in the Book of Mormon, he shows that Mosiah 11, 20-25 is a beautiful chiasmus, with the center point, which remember is that primary message, being, repent and turn to the Lord. And that is at the heart of Abinadi's message, really on both visits, but especially pronounced here on his first visit. And sometimes when we look at this first visit in chapter 11, I'll ask my students, who is the primary audience for Abinadi? And oftentimes they'll say the priests or King Noah,

but on the first visit, we don't actually get the exchange with the priest. That's going to come in chapter 12. On the first visit, over and over again, it talks about the people. It's sort of the rank and file, common men and women among them. The pattern is the same for both visits, where a benedict comes among the people, he prophesies, he speaks in the voice of the Lord, the people get angry, and then the people basically go and tell on Abinadi, they go and tell the king.

And in the first visit, we get Noah's response, if you look at Mosiah 11 verse 27. Now when the king had heard of the words which Abinadi had spoken unto the people, he was wrath, and he said, Who is Abinadi? And then he says, and who is the Lord? And this response probably shouldn't come as a surprise because this is a pattern that we see all throughout scripture. It's this question of who is the Lord to tell me these things, or who is Abinadi, who is this prophet? We see the same thing back in the Old Testament in Exodus, remember with Pharaoh in Exodus 5, and afterward Moses and Aaron went in and told Pharaoh, thus saith the Lord God of Israel, let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the

wilderness. And Pharaoh said, who is the Lord, that I should obey his voice and let Israel go? I know not the Lord, neither will I let Israel go. Or think of Cain in Moses 5. I have gotten a man-child from the Lord, wherefore he may not reject his words, but behold, so this is Adam and Eve after they've conceived in Bor Cain, but Cain harken not, saying, Who is the Lord that I should know him? And then the implication as the story goes on, who is able this man of holiness we have another example in the Book of Mormon remember when Alma and Amulek go to the people of Ammonihah in Alma 9 who is God that sendeth no more authority than one man so again it

shouldn't be surprising as we look at this text that is a benedict comes in with a bold message, Christ's repentance, except you repent and turn unto the Lord, these are the consequences. Well, who are you? Who are these men, these prophets? And one of our friends and fellow teachers, S. Michael Wilcox, gave a landmark talk that he entitled, King Noah Blindness and the vision of seers. So beautifully stated because in verse 29 it says the eyes of the people were blinded. With that I want to highlight what I consider one of the most relevant and honestly

urgent messages for our day. We've already talked about how the primary audience for this first visit is the people, So let's look at how the text captures that. Look with me at Mosiah 11 at the end of verse 22, Abinadi speaking in the name of the Lord. The very last phrase in verse 22, the Lord talks about my people. They're still His people. In chapter 12 verse 1 a benedite go and prophesy into this my people in Mosiah 12 verse 4, it shall come to pass that I will smite this my people the Lord is making clear these are my people I'm gonna have you go back to Mosiah 11 and look at verse 27 where we get the words of Noah And look at verse 27, where we get the words of Noah, Who is a benedite that I and my people should be judged of him? Who is the Lord that shall bring upon my people such great affliction?

I command you to bring a benedite hither that I may slay him, for he has said these things that he might stir up my people to anger. He's going to raise contentions among my people. Here we have this storyline and we have this conflict where the Lord is saying these are my people and Noah is saying no these are my people. Essentially the question is how long halt ye between two opinions? I mean in many ways I see it like Elijah remember in the Old Testament of 1 Kings 18, standing before the

priest of Baal, Elijah came unto the people and said, how long halt ye between two opinions? If the Lord be God, follow him. If Baal, then follow him. If Noah and your riches and your whoredoms and your idolatries, if these are your God, then follow them. And here are the consequences that are going to follow. But if the Lord is your God, then follow him and choose this day. How long hold ye between two opinions? So in fact, Hank and John, I want to put you on the spot here for a minute

and I hope that's okay. We don't mind being put on the spot. Especially I love it when John gets put on the spot. That's good. Unless the listeners think I'm insensitive, I did give a heads up, so I don't wanna come off as, you know, as somehow throwing you guys under the bus. But I'm gonna make a statement that I believe to the core of my soul.

And I think it's at the heart of an important message here. I'm gonna have the easy job and make the statement. And then I want you guys to defend my statement. How does that sound? Okay, we're on your side. Thank you for being here. I'm going to have the easy job and make the statement and then I want you guys to defend my statement. How does that sound? Okay, we're on your side. Thank you for being, I'm glad to be recruited. Good. Here's the statement. One of the most important, consistent, and overarching questions in all scripture is, what are you going to do with prophets? is what are you going to do with prophets? Essentially, how are you going to respond to prophets? I think we see it throughout the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants Church history, the Old Testament, the New Testament. I

think we see it all over the place. So that's my statement. One of the primary messages and questions of all scripture is what are you going to do with prophets? Such a great question, especially right now. I love the idea of a prophet being called a watchman on a tower. I think it's Ezekiel 3.17. The Lord says, I have called thee to be a watchman of Israel. Hear the word of my mouth and give them warning from me. Prophets speaking for God and the idea of a tower because they can see things that those of us at ground level can't see. Sherry Dew wrote this book called Prophets Can See Around Corners and did a talk at BYU Hawaii called Prophets Can See Around Corners. Coming from her perspective,

who has written the biographies of President Hinckley and President Benson, it's really fun to hear her testimony of living prophets. We all know as teachers how hard it is to come up with a really good question. And she has a series of questions in here. Question number two in her book, is there anyone you would trust to give you better, more inspired advice, meaning counsel unaffected by personal agenda, than members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. It's a modern application of your question. She says, can you identify any journalist, talk show host, celebrity, politician, athlete whose counsel or advice you feel is more sound

or more informed than that of the fifteen men ordained as prophets, seers, and revelators? What about an entrepreneur, billionaire, professor, scholar, theologian, university president, or think tank expert? Or the winner of the Nobel Prize, Academy Award, Golden Globe, or Pulitzer Prize, any blogger, podcaster, YouTube celebrity, or star on stage, screen, Hulu, or Netflix? I've tried to identify someone who would fit this description. I simply cannot. Throughout my life, I've rubbed shoulders with very influential and celebrated leaders, CEOs, scholars, writers, journalists, diplomats, and

politicians. Further, my job requires me to consume a lot of content, everything from books, magazines, podcasts, movies, to a steady flow of posts and tweets on various social media platforms. I have my preferred authors," Sherry continues, commentators and experts. I cannot think of anyone I would listen to instead or ahead of the living prophet and the 14 other men ordained as prophets, seers and revelators. No other influencers can do what seers can do. Even experts in their fields cannot with accuracy see around corners." And she goes on, but I love the question if they really are watchmen on a tower, if they can really see things we cannot, who would you rather have in charge? Who would you rather take advice from?

I love that line of reasoning there and I would suggest our listeners go and watch her talk at BYU Hawaii about Prophets Can See Around Corners. That's awesome. I think it's such an important point and again it's this idea of what are we going to do with prophets? Do I view the first presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as wise older men who are from a secular sense just organizational leaders or managers or do I really believe they're prophets seers and revelators what am I going to

do with them with their words with their counsel do I really believe that they see the eyes of the people were blinded to bring it back to a benedai but seers see and to your point and Sherry Dew's point they see around corners. So great thought I love that I have noticed in the Book of Mormon and in other scriptures and Very much today that sometimes the response to a prophet is anger. It happens over and over I was thinking of Samuel of Lamanite, Helaman chapter 16. He's done his work He's preached his message and they are contending among themselves. This isn't reasonable. What he said is not reasonable. It's a wicked tradition.

He's trying to keep us in ignorance. This is foolish and vain over and over and over this anger that comes. I also thought of 2nd Nephi chapter 1, John, we looked at this in depth here with Dr. Anderson, when Lehi says to Laman and Lemuel, you're angry with him, but he is seeking your eternal welfare. And that which you call anger is the truth. It's the truth. I know you're upset, but this is the reality. President Nelson says things how they are. He gives the reality and people get upset. This is October 2023 general conference. Quote, there is no end to the adversary's deceptions. Please be prepared. Never take counsel from those who do not believe. Seek

guidance from voices you can trust, prophets, seers, revelators, the whisperings of the Holy Ghost. Please do this spiritual work to increase your capacity to receive personal revelation." Thus came a firestorm online of President Nelson is trying to divide families. President Nelson, a prophet of God would never say this type of thing. It's anger. Way back in 2020 at BYU, President Nelson said something that I think maybe was prophetic for his 2023 message. He says, it is precisely because we do care deeply about all of God's children that we proclaim His truth. That's the motivation behind a prophet. We may not always tell people what they want to hear. Prophets are rarely

popular. We see that with Abinadi, we've talked about Samuel the Lamanite, Nephi to his brothers. That which you call anger is the truth. Ryan, John, it's a huge step for someone to go from I'm really angry at what that prophet says to I need to listen. That's a hard road. Yeah, beautiful. In fact, I had noted that same quote and I love what he says before then as well. He says, sometimes we as leaders of the church are criticized for holding firm to the laws of God Defending the Savior's doctrine and resisting the social pressures of our day Do you remember when Elder Holland was talking about in his general conference talk prophets in the land again? He says

occasionally people make the comment that perhaps the brethren are out of touch and Elder Holland said I've never and this goes back to John's point, I've never been around a group who's more in touch, who knows more about the issues of today and what we're looking at in the future. So they're aware of all of these things and aware of how it's going to land with some people. And then he says, but our commission as ordained apostles

is to go into all the world to preach his gospel into every creature. That means we're commanded to teach truth. In doing so, sometimes we're accused of being uncaring as we teach the Father's requirements for exaltation in the celestial kingdom. But wouldn't it be far more uncaring for us not to tell the truth, not to teach what God has revealed? And then Hank, it's the part that you just read. It's precisely because we do care deeply for all of God's children. Prophets are rarely popular,

but we will always teach the truth. I love that, and I'm so thankful that we have prophets, seers, and revelators who are sensitive to these things and yet are committed to their divine commission to teach truth. Hank, you mentioned Samuel the Lamanite. I love that moment in Helaman 13 when Samuel is rebuking them for this very thing.

You cast out the old prophets and do mock them and cast stones at them. This is Helaman 13, 24, and slay them. And then he says, and now when you talk, ye say, if our days had been in the days of our fathers of old, we would not have slain the prophets, we would not have stoned them and cast them out. But behold, you are worse than they. For as the Lord liveth, if a prophet come among you and declareth unto you the word of the Lord, which testifieth of your sins and iniquities, you're angry with him and cast him out and seek all manner of ways to destroy him. And you'll say he's a false prophet, that he's a sinner and of the devil, because he testifies

that your deeds are evil. But if a man come among you and say, do this and there's no iniquity, do that and you shall suffer not. Sort of the you do you. And if he says, walk after the pride of your hearts, walk after the pride of your hearts walk after the pride of your eyes and whatsoever your heart desireth if a man come among you and say this you'll receive him and you'll say he's a prophet or she's a prophet this seems to be the message of all scripture obviously the overarching purpose of scripture is to lead us to the Savior. But just after that, it seems like the question is, what are you going to do with prophets? Think of Isaiah. They say to the Seers,

see not. And to the prophets, prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things. In other words, tell us what we want to hear. Elder Maxwell, in 1979, made this what I think is a prophetic statement. Make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters, in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the first presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions. And then he would say, not being ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ. And against that backdrop, I wanted to share something about President Nelson.

One of the reasons President Nelson makes it so easy to follow the prophet is President Nelson has been following the prophet his entire life. Think of the story that he told when he was a little boy. He had read the prophetic commandment about the word of wisdom and he said I wanted my parents to live that law. So one day when I was young I went to our basement and I smashed on the concrete floor every bottle of liquor. I expected my father to punish me, but he didn't say a word. Or as a 41-year-old, he was being heavily recruited to work at the University of Chicago.

Elder Holland said he was being recruited very aggressively. He would have been made the head of the department. He would have a salary that was through the roof. They would pay for all of his children's education wherever those children went on the face of the earth. But before accepting that position, Dr. Nelson sought and received advice from one additional source. He met with the then church president David O. McKay. President McKay listened and said, I don't think you should go. Just like that Elder Holland said, Russell Nelson made the decision on the spot. He's not going to go. In 1979, he's not yet a general authority and he's in a meeting where President Kimball says,

we should be of service to the Chinese people. We should learn their language. We should pray for them and help them. Later when recounting this experience, President Nelson said, President Kimball asked us in that meeting to learn Chinese. I did not hear him say, everyone except Brother Nelson. He learns Chinese and eventually receives the recognition that's entitled the old friend of the Chinese people, which is bestowed upon a select few doctors, authors, journalists, and statesmen who over an extended period have established this deep mutual respect. President Nelson said with conviction, it's my testimony that when we follow through with whatever the prophet of God asks us to do, the way will be opened and our lives will

be changed. And maybe one more, do you remember the experience where he's asked to operate on President Kimball? And the question that's asked is should we perform this operation and President Nelson then Dr. Nelson he said we have no experience operating on a 77 year old man in heart failure doing two operations at once it's never been done that I know of it would be extremely risky as a surgeon I cannot recommend this operation Harold B B. Lee then asked what

the risks would be if he were to proceed. And he said, they're incalculably great. I wouldn't recommend the operation. At that point, Spencer W. Kimball said, there you have it, brethren. I'm an old man ready to die. It is well for a younger man to come to the quorum and do the work I can no longer do President Lee rose to his feet pounded the desk with his fist and declared with no small amount of energy Spencer you've been called you are not to die You are to do everything you need to do in order to care for yourself and continue to live Spencer W. Kimball then following the prophet All right, then I will have the operation.

Sister Kimball wept. President Nelson said, when he spoke those words, my heart sank, because the weight of the decision seemed suddenly to pass to me. But this was a remarkable event. This momentous decision, which shaped the history of the church, was not based on a medical recommendation.

It was based strictly on the desire of President Kimball, an Apostle of the Lord to be obedient to the inspired direction of the first presidency of the church. And both President Kimball and President Nelson go on to follow the Prophet. It's significant that President Nelson would later say, over the years of my service to President Kimball, I was often asked the question, when does President Kimball speak as a prophet and when does he speak as a man? And he said, I never ask myself this question. The only thing I ask is, how can I become more like him?

That is the feeling of my soul as we look at prophets and apostles. I don't ask, okay, are they saying this as an apostle or a prophet or are they saying this just as a man? I desperately want to be more like them and listen because prophets really do see around corners. If we miss that message in the story of Abinadi, I feel like we're missing one of the most central messages in the broader narrative that we have. I wanted to first read from S. Michael Wilcox what you mentioned a minute ago, Ryan. He said, we can encapsulate the message of this story and what follows with this very simple phrase, we must learn how to distinguish between the King Noah's and the Abinadi's

in our lives. Often, when we are blinded by the Noah's in our lives, we cannot differentiate between the true friend and the false one. When someone else comes to our aid, the Abenidais of our lives, and tries to warn us because they see more clearly and see the unhappiness that is coming, we treat them sometimes as the enemy. We simply must learn how to distinguish between the true friend and the true enemy. If Hank or Ryan were to come to one of my classes, if they said to me afterwards, John, you're doing these three things that are hurting you in your teaching, or even as a friend, not about teaching, John, you're doing a couple of things. This happened to me when I was a young adult. A trusted adult came to me and said, John, you're doing something that's hurting you. Is that a message from a friend? Yes. What if they came to me and said, oh, you're fine just the way

you are? Which one is the real friend? I also like to look at the God angle here. Why did God send a prophet? Why didn't he just wipe him out? He sent them and he called them my people because he loves them. The prophets are bringing that message from God out of love, not out of trying to be popular, because as you've said, both of you, sometimes those messages aren't received with the love that they came with, you know. Yeah. My daughter is a big Star Wars fan, and we see lots of lessons like this in Star Wars, and you see the downfall of that main character, right?

Anakin Skywalker. And it's so obvious to everyone who's watching the movie. Like, he's so blind. Here's his friends trying to help him, trying to talk to him. Even his own family, his own love, is trying to talk to him, even his own family, his own love, he's trying to talk to him, refuses to see it. If I could talk to my friends who have turned on President Nelson, you'd beg them. Try to humble yourself enough to please listen, please open your heart just this much to maybe it is a prophet. Maybe he really does love you and wants to help you,

maybe this really is from God, right? If you could just beg someone to open their heart that much instead of being so angry. The way you're describing that, essentially you're quoting Alma 32, 27, awake and arouse your faculties to an experiment upon my words, recognizing that his words are coming from prophets and apostles, and exercise a particle of faith. So now, maybe just a brief message to those who are struggling with what we're talking about. I love here that he's not saying you have to come in with this depth of confidence. He's saying, can you have a particle of faith, even's saying can you have a particle of faith even if you can know more than desire to believe? Can you even open up space, a particle, to even hope that these really are prophets, seers, and revelators like we have throughout all

scriptural history? Can you open up that desire and if you can, let that work in you in a manner that you can give place. And then I love it, he says, even for a portion, can you provide that much space? And if so, then that experiment will work. It will begin to swell and grow within your heart, and you can come to that deep testimony of prophets, seers, and revelators. And both of you had shared examples where friends

who were telling you what you wanna hear, oftentimes we see the language that comes in Mosiah 12 where it says to be judged of this man. That's one of the statements is whatever you're just judging them. You don't really know them, you're just judging them. Or what we see in chapter 13 when nothing else seems to be working they go to the ad hominem whatever he's crazy, he's mad. And these are some of the attacks. But that kind of sets up, and if it's all right,

maybe move us forward here in the storyline. In chapter 12 now, we're going to come to the second visit where Abinadi comes among them in disguise, and then as we usually talk about, he sort of blows his cover right off the bat and says, I, Abinadi, but you have to think that at least part of the reason for the disguise is to get into the city.

Abinadi doesn't strike me as the type who's super nervous about what people are gonna think. I picture him, he uses the disguise, he gets in, and then it's like, here I am, I'm back, and he goes straight into boldly teaching. And it's interesting because the pattern is the same as what we saw in the first visit. He comes among the people, he prophesies, he speaks in the voice of God, the people get angry, and then the people repeat his teachings to the king. And that's where he's going to be taken before the priests and the king. But the message is a little bit different. The tone of the message is

a little bit different at this point. In the second visit, the message is more declarative. I will, speaking in the name of the Lord, I will, and then we get the message of destruction, the consequences, you shall, all this will, it shall come upon you. The life of King Noah shall be valued even as a garment in a hot furnace." And this is where he's going to be taken before the priests and in Mosiah 12 verse 19 they began to question him that they might cross him that thereby they might have wherewith to accuse him. But he answered them boldly and he withstood all their questions. Yea, to their astonishment he did withstand them and all their questions and it confound them in all their words." Before we settle into the

discourse and his teachings to these priests, I want to hit one more, what you mentioned Hank, 30,000 view principle and application. So we have him boldly defending himself, prophesying. If we jump to chapter 13, the king sends the priests and they take him forth and they lay their hands on him. And in chapter 13, verse 3, touch me not for the God will smite you if you lay your hands on me. I have not declared the message which the Lord sent me to deliver, neither have I answered your question." And then he goes on in verse 6, it says he spake with power and authority from God. In verse 7, I perceive that the message cuts you to the heart because I tell you the truth. Going back to what President Nelson said, people are filled

with wonder, amazement, anger, and then he says, I finish my message and then it matters not whether I go if it so be that I am saved. And then we fast forward to the end of the story where, even bound, ready to be executed, the offer is given. If you will deny your words, recall your words, you can be spared. Mosiah 17, 9, I will not recall the words which I have spoken unto you concerning this people, for they are true, and that they may know of a surety that I have suffered myself, that I have fallen into your hands. I will suffer even until death. I will not recall my words, and they shall stand as a testimony against you.

And if you slay me, you will shed innocent blood, and this shall also stand as a testimony against you at the last day." And then obviously at the end of the chapter, he's going to be killed and his final words, Oh God, receive my soul. One of the things that I love in the Book of Mormon is that we have Mormon narrating and oftentimes he'll jump in with an, and thus we see comment. And you remember the comment that he makes in Alma 47, right, the beginning of the war chapters, after detailing the influence of Amalekiah? Mormon gives this commentary. He says in verse 9, place among the children of men. I think Mormon would be okay with us paraphrasing this principle with the story of Abinadi saying something like, we see the great righteousness one very righteous man can cause to take place among the children of men.

Not only Abinadi and his influence, but then in chapter 17 there was one among them, these priests, and he believed. And then what does Alma do? He hides out and he begins to write the words of Abinadi. And then what does he do in chapter 18? He begins to teach the words of Abinadi. And it's the words of Abinadi that lead to the conversion of 450 souls at the end of Mosiah 18. And then it's Alma and his son Alma and then the story of Alma the younger connected with the sons of Mosiah gets us into the missionary work of the sons of Mosiah and their conversion is going to impact King Lamoni and the Queen, his

father and the entire anti-Nephi-Lehi's and then you have Alma's son Helaman and his son Helaman and then as we mentioned at the beginning of this the Nephys until finally we get to the end of third and fourth Nephi the culmination the climax of the Book of Mormon this moment and the impact of a benedai is truly going to transform the rest of Nephite civilization all the way up through 3rd and 4th Nephi. I like to make a chart. I start with Alma as the foundation. I kind of juxtapose it over an ancient temple, but I say look at the impact of Abinadi. Alma the elder, Alma the younger, Heleman leader of the 2000 warriors, Helaman record keeper, chief judge,

Nephi, missionary with his brother Lehi, Nephi, disciple of Jesus. Some scholars think there might be a fourth Nephi in there. And then Amos, son of Nephi, Amos, son of Amos, Amaron, brother of Amos, Mormon to Moroni. And then I say, see what I did there? I put Moroni on top of the temple. And then I say, see what I did there? I put Moroni on top of the temple. Haha. But Alma the Elder is 148 BC, this story, and Moroni buries the record in 421 AD. So if I did my math right, 569 years is the impact of Abinadi and the young man Alma who believed him when he came and talked to the King Noah and the wicked priest. I am right with you there that Alma's decision, we've talked about Abinadi being a

prophet, but Alma's decision to open up his heart, there's got to be something in Alma way back in his soul as he's listening going, he's right. And as he's listening to Abinadi, he's saying he's right. But I promise you there's feelings come up. Well, no, because this and this and this, he's not right. This really hurts. If he's right, then I don't feel really good. So I'm going to push those feelings away. But yet here comes those feelings back. And then I have a few friends who have decided to step away from the church and from the prophet. The impact that is going to have, the ripples that are going to spread from this decision for how many hundreds of years did you say, John?

569 years. 500 years. Abinadi's choice and Alma's choice is going to affect the future. If Alma doesn't listen, let's say Alma never listens and how the entire story changes. So John, Ryan, I don't know if anyone's listening who's questioning if they're going to continue listening to the prophet, but I'm sure with both of you and with the whole book, we would say please, please listen. Humble yourself enough, open up your heart just enough and say maybe, maybe he's right. One more thing that I know that you love to quote Elder Joseph B. Worthland.

He said this about a benedi, another example of the far-reaching effects of an inspired testimony is that of the prophet Abinadi. The testimony he bore, as he called an apostate king Noah and his priest to repentance, is one of the most significant doctrinal discourses in the Book of Mormon. We'll get to that. The king and his priests except one rejected Abinadi's teachings and had him put to death. That one was Alma. Listen to this. Abinadi may have felt that he failed as a missionary because he had only one convert so far as the record shows. We don't know what Abinadi knew at the time. I hope, I want to ask him one day, did you know that anyone had listened? But what have we got? Alma,

Alma, Helaman, Helaman, Nephi, Nephi, possibly another Nephi, Amos, Amos, Amron, Mormon, Moroni. Did you know? No, you didn't fail. Look at what happened because of what you did. And as you said, Ryan, he said in verse 9, it matters not whether I go. It sounds to me like he knew I may not make it out of here alive. What do you guys think? Yeah, no, I think absolutely. You did it by years even just look at the page count. So we're on page 175 I'm old school and have the physical scriptures here and there are 531 pages like what we don't have the Book of Mormon without what's to come here without this conversion of Alma and the impact that He has if it's alright with you, I want to share for me one of the most profound examples of this principle. So once upon a time, I was a full-time missionary in the New Zealand Auckland mission. I had

been a missionary for about nine months and I had been in different areas, but the same city and the transfer came that would put me in a new city. I went to the transfer meeting where you meet your new companion and the area that I was getting sent to had a reputation for being a hard area. In fact, the missionary who I was replacing came up to me at the church where the transfer, you know, was taking place and they said, hey I heard that you're going to this area. And I said, yeah I am and I'm, you know, all excited and he's like, I am so sorry. He said, I've been there for nine months. I've knocked on every door. I've knocked on most of them twice,

some of them three times. Nobody is interested. This area is dead. I told president we should close it down. I'm so sorry that you have to go to this area. If you're an arrogant 19-year year old like me at the time, what are you thinking? Well, step aside, like let me show you how it's done. I go into this area with so much confidence. Oh, we're gonna work hard

and we're just gonna change the area. So we worked for the entire transfer. We worked harder than I had ever worked as a missionary. We were all in and we had nothing to show for it. We didn't have anyone even in the teaching pool. We had one family we were teaching. They weren't interested, but they liked feeding us, and we liked eating, so we went over there for dinner.

But we weren't actually teaching anyone or seeing anybody progress. I had this pivotal moment of deep humility where I realized in my own way now I know that I am nothing, which thing I actually never before had supposed. I have this feeling of humility and pray for forgiveness and my companion and I decided to open up a fast for success in this area that we would see the Lord's hand. We wake up the next morning, we pray, continue our fast, and we pulled out a map. Now for our younger listeners, a map is like

GPS, but it was on paper. So we pulled out this map and prayerfully considered where should we go. We decided we didn't have anything else to show. We were going to show the Lord we were all in and we were just going to go knock on doors for as long as it took. Or talk to people in the streets. We made a plan and as we looked at this map, we both actually settled in on the exact same road independently. So we thought that must be inspiration. We go to this road and we start knocking on doors. And then we look a few doors ahead and we realize that there are two Jehovah's Witness missionaries knocking the same street

right along the way. So imagine that scene. So you've got two Jehovah's Witness missionaries on a Saturday morning knocking on a door. Hi, we're Jehovah's Witnesses, do you want a pamphlet? And within two minutes, right after them, hi, we're missionaries for this like we are harassing everybody along this street and it didn't take long

before we were like this isn't gonna work. So much for inspiration and we went to a different street. A couple of days later though we remembered the feeling that we had. We went back to this road maybe the other Jehovah's Witness missionaries maybe they got tired and didn't make it to the other side of the road, so let's start there. And the second door that we knocked on was the door of a 21-year-old young man named Nelly Sasulu. And Nelly let us in, and he let us teach a discussion. He had a friend who was a member of the church and was a missionary, so he was kind of curious

what it was that missionaries did. We had one of the most powerful first discussions that I experienced as a missionary. Nellie was so prepared. When we talked about the Prophet Joseph Smith, that we talked about the first vision, the questions he was asking, Nellie was connecting with it. And then we pull out one of the cheap little paperback copies of the Book of Mormon. And we said, Annelli, we want to give you a copy of the Book of Mormon. And his eyes got wide and he's like, I could have that. And we're like, yeah, you can have it. And so we hand him this and he's just like, thank you. And we're like, yeah, it's good. Here, read this and we'll come back and talk about it.

Then we pray and we end this discussion. And do you remember those moments and return missionaries in the audience, do you remember the moments when you float out of a discussion? You have tasted heaven and that's what it was like. We go to have our followup meeting with him and he's not there.

We came back the next day and he wasn't there. We came back later that day and he wasn't there. But his parents were. So we started chatting with his parents and as we're chatting with his parents, Nellie pulls up in his car and he says, brothers, sorry about the other day. I had something come up and I couldn't find your number and we said, do you have time right now? And he said, yeah, yeah, come in. We open up to 3rd Nephi chapter 11, and we start reading about the climax of the Book of Mormon and the Savior's ministry among those in Bountiful,

and it starts talking about baptism. And we say, Nellie, how do you feel about baptism? And he said, yeah, I think it's really important. And we said, yeah, absolutely, so do we. Do you feel like it'd be important for you to be baptized? And he said, yeah, actually I was when I was a little baby. We have another conversation about authority and baptism by immersion, and then we say, Nellie, do you think it'd be important for you to be baptized by somebody holding that priesthood authority? And he says, yeah. Nellie, will you prepare yourself to be baptized

by somebody holding that priesthood authority on November 23rd. I'll never forget that day. And he looks at us and he says, yeah, heck yeah. But he didn't say heck, but he was in New Zealand and it's not a swear word. So, heck yeah. So we make this plan. November 23rd was three weeks from the day

that we had this conversation. We laid it out and said, okay, on this day we're gonna have a lesson, this day we're gonna come read the Book of Mormon together. Lesson, Book of Mormon, introducing to members. We had it all planned out Some things happened between this time and his baptism. He had a couple of challenges Some of his friends had given him some anti-mormon stuff Well, I guess I should back up two months before we happened to knock on his door

He had a feeling that he should stop participating in the after rugby game festivities, partying with his friends. He was a phenomenal rugby player. And he said, why is it that my friends were okay with me going out and getting drunk with them, but now I want to join a church and they're all of a sudden worried about my soul? And he said, I'm getting baptized. And we're like, absolutely. The day of his baptism comes, and I'll never forget this,

this dead area, the entire chapel is full. The ward comes out, his family's there, his friends are there, so many of those who aren't members of the church. The baptism begins, and I remember after he was baptized, he was on fire and he said, man, it feels like we just won a massive rugby game. And I was like, I'm sure that's the Holy Ghost.

Like I didn't know what to say. So we go back, there's one more talk and then he leans over and he's like, hey brothers, is it okay if I say something? And we're like, yeah, it's your baptism. He stands up. He's been baptized for like six minutes or something. And he stands up at the pulpit, bears this beautiful testimony about the Savior, about the restoration. And then he says, and if anybody wants to know more, talk to the brothers.

And he points to us and we're like, yep, come talk to us. The next day, he's confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and given the gift of the Holy Ghost. He also receives the Aaronic Priesthood and is ordained a priest. The next week he's called to be a ward missionary. He would come to district meetings with us. He would come to zone meetings with us. He would come to zone

conferences with us. So picture this scene where the president's there with all these missionaries. He asks a question. Nellie raises his hand, shares this great comment. The other missionaries are like, wait, who's that? And we're like, huh, it's Nellie. Get used to it. He's one of us. He would come tracking with us. In fact, he got us in so many doors because he was so well known. He had this reputation among these people. I remember we had a referral. There was a brother who his parents were less active members of the church. I think he was 19 years old and he was never baptized. We knock on his door and he's like, no, I'm not really interested.

And then he sees Nellie standing behind us and he's like, wait, Nellie, are you with these guys? And he's like, yeah, man, I was just baptized. And this brother's like, oh, come in. We're like, okay. So we go in and we start teaching him. We end up teaching and baptizing three of his brothers, teaching several of his friends. Oh, come in. We're like, okay. So we go in and we start teaching him. We end up teaching and baptizing three of his brothers, teaching several of his friends. This dead area has this life breathed into it because of the passion that Nellie had.

People said, whatever happened to him, I want to have happen to me. And we started to see miracles. There are several other parts to the story, maybe one quick one. We got permission to take Nelly and his little brother and one of his buddies down to the visitor center, which was about an hour and a half drive from where we were. Nelly was driving. My companion was 6'6", so he was in shotgun. I'm not 6'6", so I'm in the back seat. So it's me, Nellie's little brother, and Nellie's buddy in this little like hatchback car, picture a Geo Metro. And we make this drive down to the visitor center. And we have a good experience

there. But it was the drive home that was such a powerful experience. Whereas we're driving home talking about the gospel while Nellie's driving, he's sharing his testimony. My companion, Elder Bell, is sharing his testimony. I'm sharing my testimony. These two investigators, or we call them friends, are in the back and they're sharing their testimony of the restored gospel. So while we're driving on the freeway crammed in this car, I just look at them from this back seat and I say, will you guys prepare to be baptized on January 4th? And they look at each other and they're like, yeah. And they said to each other, like, should we do it together? And they

look at me and they're like, can we do it together? And I was like, let's do it together. So we start planning this baptism while we're driving on the freeway. I started calling it a discussion on wheels. You just shove them in the back of a car, drive 70 miles an hour, they can't get out, and you just teach. Fast forward now, I'm able to be there when Nellie receives the Melchizedek Priesthood,

and then I come home from my mission. About three months later, I get a letter, and enclosed in this letter is another letter that says something like this. Dear Elder Nellie Sasulu, you are hereby called to serve as a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. You're assigned a labor in the Calgary, Canada mission. So picture this Samoan brother in Canada comes to the Provo MTC. He flies into Salt Lake on a Saturday.

He would enter the MTC on a Wednesday. So he needs a companion. I volunteer. We take him to Temple Square. He looks around and I remember he was just like, far out. That's what he said, far out. And we're showing him, Nellie, this is the temple. This is the Joseph Smith building. Nellie, this is the church administration building. This is where the prophet works. And he looks at us and hits us in the arm. He's like, dude, should we go see him? And I was like, and now look over here. And we just sort of have to take him away.

Comes to church with us that Sunday. I drop him off at the MTC. He's two years older than me, but I felt like I was dropping off my own child. Okay, Nellie, remember what we talked about? You're gonna work hard and be obedient. And he's like, yeah, yeah. So I give him this hug and he walks away

and I'm just a mess. And I'm like, my little boy is all grown up. And he goes into the MTC. The next week, I pull into the MTC. I was applying to teach there. And as I pull in, I offer this prayer. And I said, how many father, I know there are lots of missionaries

and lots of buildings and rooms, but Nellie is somewhere in this building. It would be amazing if I happened to bump into him while I'm in there. I walk in and I go down one of the long hallways. And as I look up, there are two missionaries walking toward me. That's not uncommon in the MTC actually.

And one of them is Polynesian. And as they get closer, I was like, no way, no way. And I was like, Nelly, I mean Elder Sasulu. And he looks at me and he goes, brother. And he runs up to me and gives me this hug. And he said, what are you doing here? And I said, I'm applying to teach. What are you guys doing out here? Because they were the only two missionaries in this hallway. Everyone else was in class and Nellie looks at me and he's like it was the weirdest thing We were sitting in class and all of a sudden out of nowhere my companion got super sick And I was like, oh man, that's my bad like that was

Yeah, sorry, so we chat for three or four minutes and he's like, oh, we better get going. They go their way, I go my way. We write throughout his mission. He was this incredible missionary. In fact, I was sitting down for a meeting with some student teachers, seminary teachers, and we're getting to know each other. We were talking about missions and I said, where'd you serve? And this brother said, Canada. I was like, oh, which mission? And he said said, Canada. I was like, oh, which mission? And he said, Calgary. I was like, well, do you happen to know an elder, Sausulu?

And he looked at me uncomfortably serious and he goes, how do you know Nellie? And I said, well, my companion and I were actually able to knock on his door and baptize him in New Zealand. And this brother looks at me and he said, could I hug you? So he hugs me and then he said, that man changed my life. And I said, I gotta know what was he like? They were companions.

Everybody knew Nellie, everybody loved Nellie, everybody wanted to be like Nellie. And he said, when we tracked it, Nellie didn't walk. He sprinted from door to door to door to door to door and brought this fire of the gospel. Nellie comes home from his mission, meets and marries his wife. They get sealed in the temple on April 6th, kind of the big day in the church. They have five children and he continues to influence.

In fact, when they were moving from New Zealand to Australia, his wife said, we were supposed to move last week, but he had reactivated his aunt or something. And so he needed to baptize his cousins before we left. And I was like, of course, of course you did. Before Facebook became big, there was kind of a localized social media program. I'm not making this up. This is what his profile said. Religious views, LDS through and through. Favorite book, the Book of Mormon.

Favorite TV show, General Conference. Like this is what he has on his profile. And as I've told this story in a number of places, it's amazing how often there's a connection to Nellie. I was in Washington state speaking to a group of probably like 500 youth. And before I even said anything, I had a picture of Nelly up

behind me on the screen. And this kid in the back raises his hand and he's like, he's that that's Nelly Sassoulu. And I was like, yeah, and he said, I'm from New Zealand. He's my young men's president, and sort of unsolicited stands starts going on about the impact he had. I shared it in a BYU education week. And this wonderful middle-aged woman comes up after me with this massive smile on her face and she said I know all about him. My son served with him in Canada, a different group. A brother comes up, he

was in his 30s and he said I served with Nellie, we were in the same zone and he started, it's just remarkable the impact that he's had. Now two other kind of pieces of the story and then we'll get back to Abinadi. In 2008, I got an email from Nelly and he told me a story that I wasn't aware of. After he was baptized for a year and had received the Mekesitic priesthood and had submitted his papers, he received a phone call. And the phone call was an invitation to represent Samoa in the Rugby World Cup. And he said, this is like the NBA finals. This is like the NFL Super Bowl. He's like, I've wanted this my entire life.

Ever since I was a little boy, I dreamed of one day representing Samoa in the Rugby World Cup. And then he said this. This is a direct quote from the email, but I knew who had rescued me and who my life should be dedicated to and that is God. So I turned down this once in a lifetime opportunity to serve a mission and he said and I wouldn't have it any other way and they said but brother I just got a phone call. I was invited to represent Samoa in the upcoming World Cup, but this time they also invited his older brother, who he happened to baptize a few months

earlier, to be on the same team. So now these brothers get to live their childhood dream together. The last part of the story that I'll share is we need to kind of go back to when I'm still a missionary, Nellie's received the machisitic priesthood, but it's pre-mission call. So it's 10.20 at night, missionaries are supposed to be in the apartment at nine 30 in bed by 10.30, it's 10.20 and I get a text message. And the text says, Sharp, I'm saying goodbye, man. I can't do this anymore.

I'm going to the liquor store. I'm gonna miss you, brother. And I called him and I said, Nellie, what are you doing? And he was like, I'm gonna get wasted brother. And I said, no, you're not gonna get wasted. What's going on? And he said, I just can't do it. It's tearing my family apart. I can't do it anymore. This is too hard. And he kept going on saying the same thing. So I asked him where he was and he said he was at this park, which is about 20, 25 minutes from our apartment. And I said, Nellieie I'm gonna be there in 10 minutes and I said and don't you dare go to the liquor store until I get there and he said they're gonna be closed and I said see you soon and I just hung

up on him and I called president at this point it's like 10 40 10 45 and I called my mission president and I said president I explained the situation and he said other sharp it he just said it's not good for you to be out that late and then he paused and it felt like an eternity it was probably five seconds other sharp it's not good for you to be out that late just drive safely thanks president and we fly to the park and we show up there and there's nelly in the pitch black in the middle of this park sitting on a 12 pack of beard with his face buried in his hands and we sit down next to him what's going on and he said I just can't do it anymore it's tearing my family apart we talked to him about it

and we talked to him about the adversaries attempts to stop him from becoming the missionary that we knew he could be and the man of God that he was becoming. Finally, after chatting for about a half hour, we just said, should we pray? And he's like, let's pray. So picture this scene, 1130 at night, probably pitch black, a guy sitting on a 12 pack of beer and two missionaries in full proselyting clothes praying in this park. After we finished the prayer, we get a phone call from president and he says, where you guys at? And we tell him and he said, okay, bring him up to the mission home. We're walking to the car. He's got this 12 pack of beer and he looks at us and he looks at this beer and he looks back at us and he just

throws it into this garbage can. We get in the car, we take him to the mission home and president talks to him for several minutes and he said, Nellie, you have learned that there is a very real power out there and that power is going to try to stop you, but you have to know there is always a power that is stronger and that is the power of God and I think it'd be appropriate that we call on that power right now and he lays his hands on Nellie's head and gives him this incredible blessing. And then Nelly goes on a mission, and then he becomes the man that I've been talking to you about. So when I think the impact of one person,

and I continue to tell that story to my classes, and every semester I get emails from students because of that story and because of Nelly's example, like I want to go on a mission. I want to experience what he experienced. So I have such a strong testimony of the power that one person can make if they turn their life over to the Lord.

And that's one of the most beautiful examples that I could think of and I apologize, I know it took longer than we usually would, but I love that faith and the impact that he had. I have to ask you Ryan, was that the same mission president you told us about last year in your episode? Yeah, so President Dirk Smyrra, one of my heroes, passed away ten years ago this past March. I remember you telling us last year you did your lesson on Matthew 9 and 10, Mark 5?

We should encourage everyone to go back and listen to that episode. You can get those two stories side by side. Really fun. God is in the details. I remember sitting in the Marriott Center as an elders quorum president at BYU and Elder Maxwell came. So go way back. That's how old I am. He said that the macro plan of salvation is

composed of millions of micro plans and that God manages the intersections of our lives. Where we go and people we meet and when we meet them. He said these are all managed by our Heavenly Father and His remarkable Son who in the Acme of Understatement said I am able to do my work. finished by her heavenly father and his remarkable son who in the acme of understatement said, I am able to do my work. I'm writing it in my Franklin planner as fast as I could. That's a testimony of that, that that area was, you thought, dad, God had somebody and sent you to them. And I hope listeners feel the love of God sending you there, sending a benedi to these people when he could have given up on them, giving them another chance and anybody listening

in a bad place. God is sending you faith and testimony today to hear that story. And now the story of Nellie has blessed me too. Maybe Nellie is listening. If Nellie ever hears this episode, Nellie, we love you. Follow him. Our fans of Nellie is listening if Nellie ever hears this episode Nellie We love you follow him our fans of Nellie Ryan What would you tell him right now if he's listening going back to what that brother who said that man changed my life I just feel the same. I was actually texting Nellie yesterday So I asked him if I could share it and I just I I love Nellie and his wonderful wife Zoe and they're incredible kids

they're just an amazing family who has impacted the Sharp family. I love it. That's a modern day of Benadai and Alma. But we're glad you're still around. Thank you. Please join us for part two of this podcast.