Games with Names - “Iron Man Match” with Shawn Michaels | Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

On today’s episode we hop into the ring for one of the greatest matches in the history of professional wrestling: The Iron Man Match between Shawn Michaels and Brett Hart. We check out the world in 1996 (10:13). We profile both of these iconic WWE Superstars (26:58). Shawn Michaels joins the program to talk about this iconic match and his illustrious wrestling career (39:13). Jules & Sam breakdown the legacy of this match and give it a score (1:27:55).Support the show: http://www.gameswithnames.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I'm Keri Champion, and this is Season 4 of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry.

Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadson. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in.

Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game.

Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's basketball. And on this new season, we'll cover all things sports and culture. Listen to Naked Sports on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio apps, or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black Effect Podcast Network is sponsored by Diet Coke. March 31st, 1996.

The Arrowhead Pond of Anaheim. Terrible name. Anaheim, California. WrestleMania 12. Two men. One referee brother. 16,000 screaming fans. One belt. 60 minutes. Hart versus Michaels. This is the Ironman Match.

Hello and welcome to Games with Names presented by WinBet. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Sam Morrell and we're on a search to find the greatest game ever played. Ever. And on today's episode, Sam, we're talking to the Heartbreak Kid and Shawn Michaels about the Iron Match from WrestleMania 12. Big, big, big deal. Yeah, it's a big one. Bret Hart versus Shawn Michaels.

Me personally, I was a Bret Hart guy. I low-key was, too. I was a Bret Hart. I respected Shawn Michaels. I like Shawn Michaels. a bret hart guy i low-key was too i was a bret hart i respected sean i like sean michael i i then became a fan of sean michaels in this next like eight month window because he created generation x right degeneration x did he start it i know it was him he was part of it triple h billy gunn and the road dog and and uh x-pac right yeah that was the crew they were i mean they popularized suck it 100 that was the whole thing suck it yeah we'll be joined by sean michaels later the

heartbreak kid uh the showstopper showstopper one of the best one of the best in ring ever like a guy who could do backflips high flyer everything when i was watching him he always had great hip mobility yeah like when he got in his little flex pose and he got his little leg like he you have to have really really flexible hips on that so i i respect his hip flexibility as an athlete like i'm gonna get into that with him yeah you know i wonder what kind of drills he's doing is he doing like hurdle? Is he doing yoga? But yeah, we'll check that out. This match took place in March of 96.

Yeah. Of course, at WrestleMania 12. That's crazy. Yeah, this was a big one. This had all the big names, too. It had Undertaker, Diesel, Big Daddy Cool, Steve Austin. Steve? This one, young Steve Austin. Ultimate Warrior. He was there. jennifer baker diesel big daddy cool uh you know steve austin this one young steve austin ultimate warrior he was there he was kind of on the he was on the last limb i think he had a

superstar like match with uh who who was it uh hunter hearst helmsley oh hunter hearst the rich kid from connecticut before he became triple h yeah and he he was my beef with ultimate warrior and i because i know you're a fan I just love that He would sprint out I like that And just slide through Like that That's where my

My run down the Freaking uh Like before games I'd always run down The sideline And I felt like Like just the fucking Ultimate Warrior

When I was doing that Yeah I get how He could fire you up My problem was The in ring stuff Every match was two minutes He was like a Premature ejaculator He'd promise you the world and then he'd just be like i'm sorry you know

bum me out unfortunately i do know i'm joking this is a joking podcast he but he was a uh he was just like he wasn't like an in-ring guy like these guys 60 minutes this is like kama sutra well this is i mean this this match was insane because like you said two minutes for the ultimate war this was a 60 minute match 60 the iron iron man match which i think the previous long was like 20 minutes before that you have to have some crazy crazy stamina stamina yeah to go out and compete and perform like these two men did for an hour. Like, I do this boxing training right now. I'm boxing right now.

And these are, like, three-minute little, like, rounds that you do. And you get so tired when you're leaning up against another person and actually compete. Like, I couldn't imagine going for an hour. And it started out slow. It started out slow, but I think they were doing that to conserve energy i mean probably an hour-long match of just getting beat down well there's that one moment in the match i guess michaels is still kind of the heel at this point and he and he uh he chugs a water and that was like the bad guy move it's like he's having water yeah that's how

unhealthy this shit is they're like don't you had water i mean hydration is bad at that time you got to earn the water yeah you know it was one of those things why are we doing this match because i think this is you got to call this one of the most iconic matches weirdly i don't think it's michael's best match i think he had better matches you know the latter match with razor ramon either of those but uh this is two icons this is it's almost a passion of the torch here right you got brett hart is he was a short-term champion though he wasn't like like he got like short end of the stick that was a huge thing like they i guess they weren't performing as well for that that year and who was diesel had it and then he took it from

diesel and then they needed someone with a little more spunk a little more flair and that's where you know sean michaels comes in and you know this was like the start of a generation like the attitude era it was a right around the corner that whole kind of punk that fuck you like like almost kind of very gen Z-ish. Yeah, it was, and this was, I guess, Shawn was like the young guy, 31, hardest 39 here. And I know he didn't have like a long run, but he was the guy. He was the guy.

Technically sound. Yeah, he was the best. Like if you talk to wrestlers, he was a wrestler's wrestler. He put dudes over. He was the guy. And he's the guy to put over sean michaels i don't think they liked each other they hated each other i was watching i was doing some of my research yeah

shout out to the research research group uh of the pod they did an awesome job yeah uh and they like really hated each other yeah i was watching one of those documentaries i guessed uh sean michaels or uh no Bret Hart. He was about to go to the WCW and like next eight months or something. And he, he felt that he got the short end of the stick. Like I said, where he wasn't champ enough, he wasn't champ long enough. Uh, and he had, I guess, different views and it kind of, you know, Brett, uh, Shawn Michaels, he was kind of like the young gun, you know, the younger guy that was flashy. And, you know, I, I think they were talking about, what were they saying, Sam? Like they just hated each other internally and the other wrestlers found out. I want to ask him about that. And like, that's like a huge working relationship, you know, like they're, they're, they're're not acting but they're performing in the ring and then you know usually after in the locker room i think they kind of all just chill drink some beers and they all have like a cool relationship i think they actually really had

some uh flames between them it's like if we hated each other yeah it would be hard very it would be i mean they they have to be great together and you have to there was that match sean michaels versus hulk hogan and i don't think he liked hulk hogan so he's just overselling every hit yeah that's like how you make a dude look dumb in rest in wrestling you just are like you're getting hit and you're like ah i mean that's how you you just act like oh my god it hurts so much no but that and then behind scenes, they talked about it on one of the research packets that they actually were kicking each other. And like one of those uppercuts, he really got them. Damn.

And like the kick, one of the sweet chin musics, he kicked them. It was like too much. And I guess they have a number system on how they, they, they tell each other like one through five, they're good. Five through eight. they're good. Five through eight, they're not. I don't know if we're supposed to be talking about this, because this is real. This is real, folks.

This is real. Wrestling is real. Wrestling is so real. But they do have number systems to let each other know, like, hey, dude, we're going way too hard here. And I think they're just throwing out tens left and right. And we're not talking about your comment section. Just tens everywhere. Oh, we're not supposed to do that yeah yeah so this was uh the first time sean michaels took the belt this was big this

a big moment for him you know yeah this he he and i guess a lot of the guys you know he put it he put his time in yeah because he was 31 he was around for probably what how many years jack he was six seven years yeah he was around for that while and and you know he had to pay his dues to to finally get his shine at the match because i mean he turned pro in 84 84 96 so so this is his 12th year so he was 19 he was a pro at 19 yeah he was he dropped out of college went right into wrestling got under the training of jose lothario and that was another thing that was like a big trainer they had like the whole uh mick and rocky kind of yeah uh attitude or look what do i say there what do you mean they had the mentor mentee yeah something like that yeah well they had like an old guy there was some

wrestlers that just came out with a hot chick and then there were wrestlers who were like this old guy he made me you know so there was a different there was a different vibe i mean i remember there was one wcw character uh i think it was chris benoit's uh his ringside person she was just called a woman like that's how bad the writing was on wc they're like what do we call it they're like woman i'm color woman woman one yeah she she's a woman the 90s yeah so misogynistic it was rough it was rough but then you know sometimes you have the hot chick in your corner and then sometimes you just have to be either way it was cool to have a manager because that's the dude dude uh what's his name the undertaker's guy the pallbearer yeah that guy was awesome who was the guy with the mullet he was the early one he was the first one

jimmy hart yep jimmy hart classic how's the uh the pallbearer was like uh that voice that high voice r.i.p he was great jeez let's go back to march 31st in 1996 on this exact day number one movie in america the birdcage classic uh never saw it yeah robin williams and nathan lane hank azaria who else is in that it's a great great comedy i think did mike nichols make that movie yeah all right the graduate legend yeah yeah uh the number one song in america was because you loved me by celine dion she was a she was a monster in the 90s oh yeah the vegas show i think we've talked about her on the show before have we you were my crown definitely gotta have one celine dion reference one time we had gene hackman was also in Birdcage. Oh, yeah, big time. Gene Hackman.

Beast. Beast. For the first time ever, the MLB opening day was in March. Why? This was after the strike, I believe, right? Strike. What do they call them when you cross the line? Those are scabs.

Scabs. Yeah. I wonder who the scab was let me do some looking on that the uh i want to pick them yeah this was i mean this is a tough time for baseball and then the steroid era kind of saved baseball yeah and it was probably the the best baseball's ever been it was pretty awesome 90s baseball i mean it's playoff baseball right now and i'm excited but you know i don't know anyone anymore because you don't watch for 162 games well tatis you know junior is trying to save baseball by taking steroids again they throw him out his team's thriving without him it's a bummer it's a bummer that guy can he can crush and you know it's it's pretty crazy that all this hype

for being the seventh best home run hitter of all time. They're acting like this thing. Of course, it's a New York record. And I can't believe this was getting... Was Judge getting national attention? You say... What did he say? Ninth best home run hitter?

What is it? Seventh? I mean, it's what? I bond sosa and mcguire the only one who have more in a season we'll count them i count those yeah count them but i'm saying you know al record i mean it just it was a little little much it was too much yankees see like this is boston hate it's not boston hey man the yankees are the new york is doing good right now we got theets four and one. We got the Giants.

Our Giants. What are Jets three and four and one? Are the Jets four and one? Giants are five and one right now. Four and two. Who knows when this comes out? But right now. Wow.

Daquan's looking like a fucking tank. Looking like a. Are defense five and one? Let's get back to 96. Fargo was released in movie theaters one of the all-time greatest movies i think one of the best american movies cone brothers are arguably the best of our time and and this is maybe their best movie so classic quite good police work you got there damn or it was no was that something like that oh my god the buzzsaw the wood chipper i mean holy shit yeah

that was that was i don't have any shit yeah the browns become the baltimore ravens yeah i just always remember belichick referencing this whole thing and how it went down it was such a shit show they literally moved in like the middle of the night in the middle of the season they tell everyone that they're gonna go to the baltimore or go to baltimore and i think they were like four and oh at the time and then they end up having a losing record after that once the distraction of the announcement was there that's crazy they were saying that when they were driving in like to work for practice people were picketing throwing shit at the car like it was their fault. Wow.

Because they were mad to lose the team. They were so mad to lose the team. Damn. And they were 4-0. They were a sexy pick to go to the AFC Championship that year.

They went to the playoffs the year before and then this comes. They fire Bill. They become the Ravens. Cleveland doesn't have a team for like 10 years which is,

that's crazy to me. Yeah, it's a great sports town. If you think about that. They really are great. What was it? It was like, how many years? Let me look real quick. Three years?

Four? Regardless. It was too much. Cleveland needs a team. Okay. Great fans. Northeast Ohio. I spent a lot of time there.

They love those Brownies. Yeah. And I'm sorry that they lost the Patriots. Tell Bernie Kosar, that guy got tortured in the 80s. I don't think they loved him. No, but they still love the Browns regardless. Wasn't that the city was throwing glass bottles at Tim Couch? That guy didn't deserve that shit.

Get him an offensive line. He's not getting protected by the line. Then he's getting not protected by the fans. No. Hey, that's a career killer. That's tough to be. They call that place a career killer. If you're a player, you do not want to get drafted to Cleveland.

Yeah. Was that on your mind? No, not at all. I just wanted to play football. Actually, I think Detroit has that title. Yeah, I would say so. But as far as fans and their love for the game they love they love great fans great fans they love football and they never win i mean there's in any sport i mean

in cleveland the calves i know but they needed that they had like a 50-year drought they needed that right because the indians came close in the night a few times yeah but it's good to see that and i hope that you know the browns turn it around but let's uh let's get to wrestling in the 90s yeah all right so i mean hulk hogan i was never really a huge hogan guy he was great he was a legend but i was always more of a macho man randy savage dude that guy fucking ruled did you have the pillows the wrestling pillows were like like the little guys i remember that i had those i had a hulk hogan and a randy savage this was more of my brother's generation like that earlier

early 90s late 80s kind of uh this this was like the whole transition from that to the the attitude era right right of the 90s so like i knew hulk hogan i loved randy savage in the slim jim commercials and the ultimate warrior coming out of the freaking tunnel sprinting into this ring like i love that i didn't know it as much this this actual match that we're about to go over the iron man match was literally that transitional period from this time to like the stone cold the attitude era degeneration x so this was like a huge in in like the history of it this was a huge a huge game or i keep on wanting to say gang it is a game it's games with names brother well i'll say this too matches with games yeah matches yeah whatever

i'll say this though i think competition is good and the wcw became really good around this time because they got Hogan. They got Macho Man. They got, you know, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash. This is right after they got all. So you have to step it up when your competition is that good. And I think that made the WWE really, you know, step it up. You got guys like Stone Cold, The Rock, Mankind, all those like great characters. Taker, Kane. Kane kane was taker's brother remember they fought like i remember i remember those matches too kane is like a mayor

now is he he's like a small town in tennessee mayor i mean these rest i mean you had jesse the ventura jackson be a governor yeah right yeah i mean these guys are these guys are are warriors a leader of men and women. Yeah, Caden is the mayor of Knox County, Tennessee right now. What did I say? I heard that. Yeah. Yeah, this was, they needed a new superstar.

They needed a new superstar. I guess, you know, they were kind of struggling. You know, the WWF at the time was struggling to have a superstar of some kind of talent of i don't know you know what it is they weren't good they were good in the ring but you had guys like lex luger who were great in the ring and stuff but then on the mic wrestling is not just about the ring it's performance baby it's it's combining sports and entertainment like we were talking about with macho Man, Ready Savage, and the improv thing about the cream out of the shirt.

Like these guys, like someone bet him, I heard. You were saying, Kyler? Yeah, yeah. Someone bet him that I bet you can't do a promotional video with little creams, like the ones you put in the coffee and like. And he did it. Did it. Cream to the top.

Kept on pulling them out. Like they needed someone like that. And I guess, you know, they felt it was Shawn Michaels. And it was, when you look back on it, was that next character that kind of helped revolutionize what the wrestling environment was going to become. Yeah. Cause I mean, Macho Man was a great example. That guy was great on the mic. He was great in the ring. The Rock, another great example. Stone Cold, you need that to thrive. Chris Jericho, all those dudes.

So the Attitude Era is coming up. This was- The New Generation stars, Michael's Heart, Undertaker, guys with big, fresh personalities. They needed that freshness. Yeah. You know? This was- Monday Night Raw, they created that. Remember that you know this was uh monday night raw they created that remember that monday night raw was the shit i used to get so fucking mad with the cliffhangers

oh yeah i'll go to bed at like nine because it was eight to nine or nine to ten it was late nine to ten i think it was eight eight to nine because we were young so it may have been nine but i remember going i'd be like no i would look at the clock i'm like it's gonna end right here no why the best is when when you get like a happy ending that would flip like your guy won but then people would just come out and start beating the shit out of him with a chair and you're like come on it was this close the cliffhangers were insane the attitude error was just around the corner like we said 97. 97. After the Montreal Screwjob. And that was.

Had these guys. That was Harden Michael. Yeah. So it was, yeah. This was a look into the future. This specific match. This is what jump-started the Attitude Era. Yeah, that's when all the guys.

I remember when Chris Jericho came. It was a. Remember that weird countdown? Y2J. I met him a couple times because i did a show and they all these guys live in tampa because it's like wrestling headquarters so i remember i did a gig side splitters great club in tampa and jericho's in the crowd and his laughing is so he was fucking drinking and his laugh is so booming and noticeable that everyone's like i'd tell a joke and he'd be like everyone's just looking at him i'm like holy shit do i have to address that chris jericho is here and i was like i'm not going to address it i think that'd be weird so i don't do

it but uh he wrote me a nice message after and then when i did a sports show in town in new york city on msg he he did an episode and it was the weirdest episode we've ever done because we had a format, and he was just like, nah, screw format, and he just took over, and I was like, man, it worked. Was he good on the mic? He was great.

It's what he does. That's what these guys do. Jericho's another guy, great on the mic, and he's doing backflips. He's doing the lion tamer. He's got it all. He's one of those great,

he's like cut from this cloth of like Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart type of wrestlers sean michaels it's gonna be pretty cool what were you doing in 1996 sam you were 10 years old i was trying to rent stuff like this from the if we went to blockbuster it was like either an adam sandler movie or uh or a wrestling movie because to me it was like you know you're looking at the value and you're like well if i see comedy, it's gonna be 90 minutes. These pay-per-views are like three hours.

So I'm like, that's so much time. This is before TikTok and YouTube. I'm looking like how much time I can get lost on a TV screen. Yeah, I remember just begging my parents to get pay-per-views to watch these WrestleManias. And I used to hang out with my buddy, Jeff Bellwomany, and we would have to go to his house cause he had the illegal box.

And so you could get it. Yeah. I don't know. WWE might get mad at me. We didn't give him that, uh, that pay-per-view, but we used to go there,

watch it. We, we get beer or not beers. We were 10 years old. You're getting fucked up. Yeah. We would get coaches, slam them.

I mean, and then also you know it's pretty crazy ironic i have a pretty good story all right about the attitude era and in this time i was like probably later in this year i was in i was at my school in elementary school and we had to sit down for lunch you sit down and then you have a first bell and then you guys can go out and play so you had to eat and there was old man Mr. Callis walking by he gave me some lip because I was like I mean I was a little little asshole probably a little little kid running around trying to make trades for fucking lunchables and uh he sat me down

yelled at me he said you can't be up yet and as soon as he walked away full suck it sign giving him suck it's yeah fuck you mr callous little fucking 10 year old me doesn't see right doesn't see but a lady walking by literally Literally, we had a fence. This is terrible podcasting, but I had a fence, if you can see. And a chain link, and a lady walked by and saw me because all my boys were laughing and we were all just doing it. And she singled me out, called Mr. Callis over, tells Mr. Callis, and he goes, you flipped me off?

I don't know. Brings me off, me office get full suspended i gave him the suck it sign it wasn't even flip off who's suck it side i love you begging the principal i didn't say fuck you i told him to suck my penis 100 what the hell and you know they're responsible for a lot of kids doing oh my god you know i got suspended that was literally like your mom's grounding you and you're like mom Mom, if you're not down with this, I got two words for you. Suck it. You know?

She's like, now you're grounded an extra week. I'm like, all right. My mom had my back, though. My mom goes, you didn't even see it. You didn't see it. You didn't do it. Did you do the this one or did you do the cross? I did a full jump spread.

Full jump spread. jump spread regular both like you know when you're a kid you would be going like a bunch yes and he you know i got caught re-ended i had to sit at home but that was my story that's great that was me in 96 when i was so young julian doing the suck it i did a similar thing when I was in school. This was the pop, the rise of Mick Foley, Mankind and Mr. Socko. And you probably know where this is going. I came in a science class with a sock in my hand and this kid, I got him from behind. I Socko him in the middle of class. And the teacher was like, get out, get out.

But everyone's cheering that I'm Socko-ing a dude. And he was like, oh, oh, stinky Sock. Yeah, he freaked out. Mr. Socko? I got thrown out of class, but I did Socko a kid. Did you get in trouble? Oh, yeah. I got thrown out and sent to the principal, but it was awesome.

I Socko-ed a dude. Yeah, the crowd must have been going crazy. They went wild. They were like, yeah. Oh, my God. Anytime any rebellion went down the whole collective group of the class would just go like yeah one for the kids well i it was i was new in school too so it was like it was a risk i was like if this goes south i'm a pariah but it worked out

and everyone's like he's one of us new to the school you were the new kid on campus soccowing people i soccered a kid yeah i went for it what it what what you were 10 i was probably like 12 that's that's ballsy i i changed schools too i mean when you're like the new kid in a new school yeah it's like you have to do something i had to i raced the fastest kid in the school, and that's how I got my standard. Damn, that's so like an 80s movie. I went and I looked at Leo Ortiz. I said, they used to do this base race thing, and he was a year older than me, but I was held back. So we were the same age.

You're fast as hell. And we did the base race, and we go around second, and we collided with each other. We hit each other. First day of school there, hit each other. Like low-key kind of knocked out get up and finish the race one leo i know you remember that uh but that was what i had to do you you go over and saco someone see that's a comic versus an athlete that's true

it's a comic versus you showed your skills i just got thrown out of class i mean that's skill right there you mcfoley mcfoley was a man shout out mick foley i did like mankind oh he was the best he got he got he used to have some crazy like he was bleeding always i remember remember didn't remember the ladder match he the ladder match and he fell on the tax was it the tax i think that was the hell in the cell that was the undertaking oh the hell in the cell that was that was fucking i used to love when they got the props like the hell in the cell stuff i get so disappointed when they didn't let's talk let's talk about this one first off we got the heartbreak kid the showstopper sean michaels 31 years old at a san antonio texas 6-1-225 he's a high flyer he's uh he can he can do the back flips he could do the flying elbow he did it all uh his signature move was of course sweet chin music you remember that the

he'd wind up for it by doing that shit i love that i tried it this morning i think i may have hit my hurt my hip flexor really you tried to get up that's why yeah i i that's why i was like so impressed with the hip mobility that's where that comment came from. I was like, oh, we're doing Shawn Michaels this morning. I was in the shower, ball naked, Barry. Did a double leg kick, chant music. I was like, oh, that hurt my knee. Maybe I'm not ready. Well, this was, he outlasted Diesel in the Royal Rumble, which is how

you got the match. Oh my god. Royal Rumble was always fun. It was great. He teased retirement. Did. Well, because he was 31. He was in the league, or he was in the league or he was in the you know the foundation or what is the federation for 12 years they didn't give him a shot so this was like his time this was his time to shine this was awesome yeah in february he won uh he won in your house six over uh we shouldn't be saying Owen Hart. No, we could say his name. They wrestled.

We could say his name. Suffered a concussion, though. That's pretty relevant these days. Yeah. I'm sure someone nowadays will probably be spotting him. Say, hey, you can't wrestle or you can't be a superstar right now. You got to go on the protocol. February, he won In Your House 6 over Owen Hart.

Yeah, great wrestler. Suffered a concussion. Yeah. At this point, he still didn't have the title. Arguably never won the belt. At this point, he's the greatest ever to never win. Yeah, he was. I think.

Who is that in, like, football? Daniel Jones, maybe? I don't know. What do you think? Dan Marino? Dan Marino. Marino Marino it is Marino maybe Charles Barkley in basketball Charles Barkley well Malone Ewan Stockton that whole 90s missed out because of MJ you know there's a lot of guys who Chris Paul in today's NBA yeah yeah and he had his fair share of controversy did the playgirl spread respect I

actually he hung down I remember I remember one the kid actually I don't want to refer I can't reference him because I don't want his mom to know we found her playgirls whoa but we found full playgirls I'm like sitting here you're here it was literally this time in my life it was probably like 1995, 6 maybe 7 we found my buddy's mom's playgirls it was like it was weird I didn't realize they had them

low key kind of traumatizing really? I thought those were predominantly bought by gay dudes I remember the story that Burt Reynolds hung dong. So maybe it was his dad's? Maybe it was his dad's, dude. But the story was Burt Reynolds hung dong in Playgirl

thinking all these chicks would be like, whoa. And then he just became a gay icon. Oh, Burt Reynolds. Yeah, the numbers say it is primarily bought by males. It's mostly a dude bought magazine, I think. Wow. And to save you guys a Google search, there at home,

Shawn Michaels didn't show dong. Oh, it was his butt? Didn't show dong. The championship belt was in the way. Eric Dickerson didn't play girl too, didn't he? Let me look into it. Eric Dickerson didn't play girl. I don't understand. He just hung butt?

What did he hang? Yeah, you could see both cheeks. Let's see some of these pics. The meat was covered by the big belt. So this was post-WrestleMania 12. Oh, okay. cheeks and then let's see some of these pics the meat was covered by the uh the big belt so this was post wrestlemania 12 oh he's got the belt laying on his side belt covering but then there is a back shot so you can see the cheeks damn yeah it would have been nice to see him in some ass lips chaps yeah would you ever do playgirl i did uh i did uh i did body issues yeah no you

look great you look great uh i wouldn't do play girl though no no just it's not as classy i don't know dude is play girls round still let me i don't even think so i mean he's a huge name to to be in play girl well there was eric dickerson he did play girl yeah did he did he hang Dickerson? Let me take a look real quick. I don't think he did. He didn't? I don't think he hanged on. What's the point of not?

You can see it through the banana hammock. Really? Oh, yeah. You could. Well, let's get to Bret Hart, a.k.a. Bret the Hitman Hart. Yeah. At this point in his career, he was 39. Calgary, Canada.

Yeah. Canadian, eh? I just went to a wedding this past weekend and there was a canadian family those people were outrageous they're like there's a whole country well no just canadian people in general like they're insanely nice but those people know how to drink oh they drank like low-key drunks but they're happy drunk so that they're never really drunk yeah back to bret hart signature move was a sharpshooter my sister used to get that a bunch back yeah i used to give her the sharpshooter all the time classic try to break your little back uh pink and white tights we were you were he made pink cool yeah you didn't see a lot of tough dudes rocking pink at this point i thought it was a it was a power move it's a secure man to rock pink yeah he he he was definitely like a

tough guy and he was well respected he wasn't like the whole attitude era and that's you know kind of why they kicked him to the curb i think but no his toughness like no respect for the best there was the best there is and the best there ever will be brett the hitman heart gotta show that guy some respect wish we had him on this episode too yeah but you know no he wasn't ready for it and he wasn't ready for it the heart versus michael's rivalry before the iron man the heart federer uh the heart foundation heart and the evil anvil anvil versus the rockets michaels and marty the rockers the rockers the heart foundation was beating me to it this episode gee heart the heart foundation it was uh heart and uh and the anvil, Jimmy the Anvil, right? And then the Rockers, Michaels and Marty Jannetty.

1989? At MSG. Oh, wow. Finished in a draw. Oof. Hate a draw. 91. I know, those are the cliffhangers.

I hated the draws. They make me so mad as a kid. 1991 in Tokyo, won by the heart federation our foundation uh first ever ladder match for the intercontinental intercontinental championship heart was the holder having captured in 1991 was won by heart the wwf championship survivor series main event also heart won it again yeah So this was his time. This was the time. He was ripe for the picking, as Shawn Michaels probably thought.

So WrestleMania, it's the Super Bowl of WWE. This is the night. This is the biggest night. The Iron Man match, this was the first one ever. 60 minutes. Who can get more pinfalls or submissions in 60 minutes? You know, I think it could be 30 or 60, but this is 60. Yeah, it's interesting they count the 30 ones.

There were two 30-minute ones beforehand. Bret Hart was in both of those. Oh, wow. This is a 60-minute one. This is the first 60. This was the first 60 minute match This was insane Which you gotta think

That's gotta be so hard for these guys Like to think when you're tired And like any mistake with these superstars Like you could break something Like a neck Or an arm You know what I mean Didn't Stone Cold break a neck

In one of the matches I think he didn't And then you get the classic The brace with the bud, Stone Cold. Yeah. Things we remembered. I remember it started slow, but they had to start it slow. You know, you got to feel out the match. If you're doing a three-hour porno,

there better be at least 30 minutes of dialogue. You can't just go right into full penetration. You got to work up to it. And that's why they, you know. You can't just go right into full penetration. You got to work up to it. And that's why they, you know. You got to start with the foreplay. Why they were doing a bunch of headlocks and flips and they were showing off. Look, people were walking out,

but they couldn't handle the greatness, the technicality of these two superstars. They were technicians. And if you watch it, it's like dancing. A lot of this is like dancing. And to see the fluidity of how each of every move they did to each other looked like, I mean, it was insane execution. For sure. You know?

Things we may have forgotten. Some fans booing. Yeah. Because of the lack of action at the start. I think that's spoiled fans. They don't, you know, what are we doing?

These guys are about to go out there and kick each other's asses for an hour. Like we already went into this. Can you imagine, maybe they didn't understand what it was. Maybe they understand that it was because can you imagine leaving? And then you left one of the great matches in wrestling history. It's like those Miami fans who would leave early in the finals with the heat

and then the heat one, and they tried to get back in and they wouldn't let him back in. They were like, sorry, dude, maybe they had, you know, maybe their kids had school early the next day.

Kind of like Mr. You know, my buddy, Mark, his, he had the kids had school left the Superbowl little early that we came back and won 28 to three, you know? So that. So that's the consequence of leaving when your kids have school the next days.

You may miss. You can miss one day, though, for a lifetime story. Classic. For a lifetime story, you're allowed to miss school. I'm not a dad here. I'm just saying these are the people that may have left yeah people that may have left uh the arena or any competition you know they probably like you kept saying in that 28 to 3 game it's going to be a hell of a story gonna be a hell of a story

these people lost their story if they left so they left shame on them shame so uh let's uh and the things we also remember oh gorilla monsoon remember that dude no he instructed earl uh earl hebner the referee to continue the match under sudden death rules as heart began to leave with the title because it went to overtime so yeah there's an hour-long match and they kept it going but by the way he was off the he was off the the ring already walking in yeah they said no no no no is gorilla monsoon the greatest name in wrestling history you can't be a lawyer with that name i'll be your attorney i'm gorilla monsoon like no you're you're you're running wrestling gorilla mon. So there must be a winner. I love that. That's, you know.

Have to. Even in the NFL, you could tie. Not in the playoffs, though. Not at WrestleMania, you can't. Yeah, you can't. Not in the playoffs. You cannot tie. And they had the same time, the same overtime rules here.

They get back in the ring. I still don't understand how because if you remember I believe Bret Hart had him in the sharpshooter for like 30 seconds and no one ever not tapped out of a sharpshooter and then the the match ended they call it a draw whatever to have the ability with Sean Michaels to like get out of the sharpshooter. He's dead tired. Give him the sweet chin music and get the title. They put them over because when you don't tap out of the great guys,

great move, your first time ever, you're now the dude. You're the guy now he is. So for the gaming corner presented by wind bet, here's what I'm thinking we do. Shawn Michaels sings his own theme song. We all know the iconic theme song.

I'm just a boy. I'm not your boy. I'm not your toy. I'm not your sexy boy. So how many times can you say sexy boy? I think you could hit five easy. Five? Well, you can hit five because here's why.

Because you're able to double up on this one because if you do the chorus too i'm just i'm i'm just what is how's it go i'm just a sexy boy sexy boy i'm not your boy toy boy okay so should we count boy toy too just sexy boy sexy boy all right all right i think you can we hit so four five four and a half four and a half you can easily do this yeah yeah four and a half sexy boy gaming corner presented by win bet what is it so we're gonna go four and a half over under i think that's the boy toy i think you could hit it easily we'll see i it's just just sometimes I get into the conversation when we're talking to these people, and then I get like, all right, we got the shot clock.

How long do we have them? Then you fully forget the prop bet. Yeah. Well, I'll remind you. I'll even throw out a sexy boy if I don't see you. Is it a joint sexy boy count? Should I jump in, too? Four and a half?

So then let's do 6.5. Six and a half. Seven sexy boys. If we're both doing it, we got to hit. If it's both of us. Easy. And we can hit seven. That's tough.

I'm just going to call him sexy boy. I'm going to start off saying. What if it opens with. Hey, Sean, can I call you sexy boy? And he's going to say say no and we're like well there goes that that wasn't that didn't work don't ask for consent on sexy boy you just have to go for sexy boy there will be no consent just go for it i wonder what kind of guy he's gonna be like me too i'm curious is he cool this is i haven't yeah this is i've met some wrestlers who is the coolest ones that you've

met i used to hang out with who's gronk's boy mojo oh yeah he's great yeah i used to go we this was before he was like in the actual league or whatever or with the wwe he's with the wwe no i think he should be we should have that but mojo he we used to go out in miami together these guys are maniacs that's i don't get it because they i want to ask sean about how he parties because these dudes would be on the road the whole year and they're it's not like they're just on the road no they're fucking working out they're think about how hard i wonder what their weekly regimen was yes i want to know i want to know there's so much to know anyway like do they have a couple days part like like scheduled out all right i'm gonna party for them here this day to this day

so i can recover by match weekend or i don't know you know we'll find out in a minute we're about to be joined with the heartbreak kid himself the sexy boy that one doesn't count sean michaels we're going to introduce you here uh one of the greatest ever do it an icon a living legend the heartbreak kid heart the sexy boy the four-time wwe world champion two-time hall of fame inductee one solo one from dx two-time royal rumble winner uh and the current booker at WWE Next, Shawn Michaels. Thanks for joining us. Thank you very much. Yeah, I appreciate that.

And look, when you guys say 35, look, it's code for old, but I've come to appreciate it. I really have. Looking back, I'm very honored to, I don't know, you've had so many people kind of grow up with you. You know what I mean? It's a pretty cool thing when you get to that point later in life

where you can appreciate that. And that is exactly where I'm at now. So thank you guys very much. Can you just kind of start this off by telling us what your life was like in 1996 going into this? You were 31 years old old you were paying your dues for so long this is when you first got your your your your belt like this was like probably what you've been working for for so long but you're also a rock star so what was life like

in 1996 well i have to say so in 1996 it was, as many people know, the life of Shawn Michaels got pretty dark at one time. But in 96, again, building up to this moment, it was feeling like you're going to be acknowledged by, you know, the company and the industry as being the guy. I mean, that's something that the WWE championship, I think sort of symbolizes in the careers of any guy that gets to hold that title is, you know, the industry, the company, acknowledging you at least for that moment in time, as being certainly one of, if not the best in, you know, in your field. And so that's honestly the, that's the, I think the most satisfying thing for any, you know, athlete,

any talent that comes through the WWE when you get recognized with a championship and certainly the world championship. It's just that. It's sort of a pat on the back, the acknowledgement that you've made it, that you're being honored by your company and your peers as being the guy that they feel like can carry the company. So on one hand, it's a huge, obviously, you know, opportunity. It's obviously a pretty heavy burden as well.

But clearly it's everything, as you said, Julie, that you work for. And it is. It's culminating, obviously, at WrestleMania is ideal. So that's one of those things that, not everybody has it happen at wrestlemania so for me to have it happen at wrestlemania and then with the world championship it was a lot of worlds coming together that was you know unbelievably satisfying and you know felt pretty decent at the time man you're on the road at this point i mean what almost a whole year every almost every week right i mean is that... Yeah, oh yeah.

You're on the road 250 plus days a year. I mean, that's a lot. I'm a road comic and my body hurts from traveling. You guys, you land, you work out, you train. I mean, is there time to party? Well, look, we made time for that. But by all means, yeah. There's certainly...

The one thing is, is that there was always after the show. And so clearly at this point in my career, I was least good about waiting till after the show. I would get to a point to where, you know, it was any time of day if I if I felt like it. But no, it's certainly it is. Look, look it was uh you know you mentioned it earlier kind of it was a kind of a rock star lifestyle it was it could be a lot of fun um and you could be obviously the life of the party a pretty popular guy um it was not a bad gig shall we say now what's a weekly routine so you had at that point was coming on. So you had Mondays and you guys would do, you guys would be traveling all week. How did you get your training? And like, as an athlete,

as a football player, we had to get four workouts in each week before the week. And you had to do it on your own. Uh, did you have everything slotted? Like, all right, I had my train time here. I had my party time here. I had, you know, had you know my preparation time here how was a weekly schedule for you guys you travel on this day because you know as athletes we're all creatures of habit especially you know you guys are you guys i mean watching this stuff you guys taking so much beatings how did you recover like what was that weekly schedule like well so uh the day's off so we do uh we got to the schedule where we're doing raw on monday but monday doing raw would be the last event so you'd go home tuesday morning um you'd have the rest of

the day tuesday wednesday and thursday you'd be at home if you didn't if you didn't have other appearances or something of that nature that was your your rest time. That was obviously, you know, you're still training, excuse me, in the afternoon. But Friday, you fly out in the morning. You get to the town. You find a Gold's Gym or you find a gym somewhere. You go train. Come back. You eat.

You go to the show. You have the show that night. You're done 10, 1030. Go back to the hotel. You know, hang out, have fun for a little while. Then you get on a plane the next morning and do the same thing. You fly to the town. You get there.

You find a gym. You train. You know, wash, rinse, and repeat. Jeez. And you do that throughout the weekend. I can't imagine you're getting any sleep at this time, too, because you're wired from the match. You get back to the hotel. I can't imagine you're getting any sleep at this time too, because you're wired from the, from the match. You get back to the hotel. You can't just sleep.

No. Well, look, I can really notice it's so crazy. Cause now if I'm on the road and now like I'm, you know, I go to bed at nine o'clock except for the nights that we have, you know, that we have a television and we have to work late. But yeah, to your point, look, you're done at the building at 10 or 1030 and you are ready. You're ready to go. So but it's amazing, you know, young, you know, youth will break through, you know, break down a lot of barriers. You could live on four or five hours sleep. But even again, if you're in bed by two, three in the morning,

you know what I mean? Depending on how long the flight is, you get a couple hours that night, you sleep on the flight, you know what I mean? You get up and you do the same thing. But youth, youth is a, is an amazing thing. It's, it's crazy how much your body, and look, also what your body gets used to. I'll say that it's, it's, you know, you, you understand. And again, you know, Julian, I'm sure you understand, you know, you get to where your body's accustomed to being through a physical endeavor on a regular basis. And as long as you keep doing it, it's sort of that callousness that it keeps up. It's the minute you stop, if you ask me, and then you try to get back into it is the

hard part the best way to stay in shape is never get out that was always the thing absolutely you know because it was always those fucking four weeks of when you you get out of shape after a season you go party with the boys and then uh you're so out of shape by the time you're like i'm never getting out of shape again you're're throwing up. But I, I'm fascinated with you. You went to, you would find a gym in the towns you're in. So like now that I'm retired, I go do this gym life too, where you go to find an equinox to get a workout in. And there's like a, I never like it because you always have people sizing you up, especially they find out who you are. I could only imagine if you guys walked in all rocked up over there on the 150s doing some presses like did people ever give you guys any shit in those gyms well so look good fortune for me is

i'm going into the gym i'm going in there with nash who's seven foot 300 300 pounds. I'm going in there with Scott Hall, 6'8", 285. Hunter, you know, 6'4", 250. So, and look, everybody knows you. And for the most part, a lot of the times, it was a number of us, you know what I mean? So it's kind of like a crew of guys going in there and it doesn't take long. You know, I think for the most part, everybody was pretty cool with the fact that

we were there you know what i mean uh that was obviously good for their business to have us there um we had you know at that time there were mostly gold's gyms a lot of places they were always really good to us but for the most part look even if you had some people that kind of had a you know stick in her ass part of my language you know about you you know you'd pay the five bucks or the ten bucks to get the workout in uh you know pay for tanning whatnot you know what i mean just whatever it took to get it done you talk about the tanning i as a hairy jew i appreciate the hairy chest representation you were the only dude with it with chest hair and julian's brought this up you could have looked more ripped if you shaved your chest but you chose not to yeah well so look i've never shaved my legs

my chest thank goodness my wife does my back now like so i gotta get a wife yeah that was look yeah i don't know so it was always i don't know that was just one of those things. I was never a bodybuilder. I got to be honest. The best shape I was in, I was really fortunate, I guess, to get that way. Like I said, it was just training and the guys. I hung around. I never knew that much about diet and training. I just hung out with the guys.

You know, I ate the same thing they ate. I, you know, trained around, you know, the same time and with them. Honestly, it wasn't, I can remember getting one time really big and heavy. And, you know, Kevin Nash and Scott, you know, used to look at me and go like, hey, Sean, you know, like we're 280, 290. You can't match us meal for meal, beer for beer. You know what I mean? You're 215. You know what I mean? I don't know. You can't

eat that much. I was like, all right. Because I can eat. I'm a repressed fat kid living inside of me that I've had to keep slim and relatively in decent shape over the years. But I honestly never really knew that much about it.

I wasn't as bright in the gym as the other guys were. I was never a gym rat. Yeah. I mean, it was still early, too. I mean, the information age of training and diet and recovery, I mean, no one really did it even in our sport back. I mean, probably in the nineties, it was starting to transform once you hit that, you know, like the two thousands, mid two thousands, two thousand tens. But I can only imagine.

Yeah. Think about that old diet complex that used to talk about, you know, with the carbs and this and that. I mean, hell, that stuff's all wrong now you know you didn't have yeah you just didn't have all the science behind it you know what i mean respectfully you're going by whatever muscle and fitness said yeah you know what i mean and you know and they're talking about guys that are doing the olympia and obviously probably you know having enhancement help here and there you You know what I mean? So you can eat about whatever you want. I got to ask you, because first off, Sweet Shim Music, one of the most iconic finishers ever, the flying elbow beforehand, the stomp, everyone knows it.

Comics, we shit on each other for each other's acts. We make fun of each other's jokes. Your crew, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, would they ever make fun of your moves? Would you guys ball bust over that stuff? Well, so, yeah, we used to bust each other's balls over all sorts of stuff. You know, only stuff from an in-ring standpoint was, I don't know, stuff that we would see that we would tell one another, like,

dude, don't do that again. You know what I mean? That's brutal. That sucks. You know, I always tell a story about, you know, Kevin Nash, big old huge guy. And I thought it was cool that he could leapfrog. You know what I mean? And so to watch this big dude leapfrog, and I had him doing it in a couple matches.

And then one time, you know, we're driving down the road, and Scott Hall's in the backseat. And he's like, hey, let me ask you a question. And Kevin and I are up front and we're like, all right, what is it? How come the biggest guy in the company avoids contact? And we sat there and thought about it. I was like, man, you're right. I said, Kevin, don't ever leapfrog again. You know what I mean?

And so I don't know. Yeah, we're just there were just times that, you know, we would we would call it monitor time where on TV days, you know, you'd sit there and you'd watch guys matches and you just rip them to shreds. You know what I mean? Just, you know, you pick apart little things that they saw wrong and stuff like that. So we did that. We did that a bunch with one another. But, you know, it wrong and stuff like that so we did that we did that a bunch with one another um but uh you know it's like anything it was like you know a locker room full of athletes so there was you know a fair amount of ribbon and and messing around going on behind the scenes hell yeah i mean that's crazy now we all know the famous song sexy boy i and i don't know if you did you write that song no so you're saying jimmy hart yes i so i ended up singing jimmy hart uh wrote it and originally sensational sherry sung it um and then jimmy hart came to me one time he's like hey baby look we're thinking we got this

great idea you know maybe you sing your song and i was said, Jimmy, God, I can't carry a note. My voice is deep. I said, I can't sing at all. He says, don't you worry. We'll get in the studio. We've got all the stuff that we can do. We can fix it. And I was like, all right.

I mean, I'll give it a try. But, yeah, so, I mean, look, I can't carry a note to save my life. But they somehow, you know, they do all that cool stuff they do with music. And look, I never, when I was going through this process of that song and my character and everything else, you know, in the theater of your mind, you're picturing yourself being maybe a bit more, you know, I don't know, like manly and a bit more like, I figured it would be like, I don't know, it'd be more of kind of a rougher, tougher ass kicking type guy. And, but then all of a sudden I turned into this, I don't know, this dude wearing assless chaps and shaking my ass and dancing and half strip teas and stuff like that. But the more I did it, the more natural, the more, just the better

it felt. And I could just really, I don't know, unleash and just sort of become whatever it is I wanted, but I never imagined it that way. And same with the music. It just got to where it ended up just being perfect for me. And, but it wasn't, it was not my idea by any stretch. It was just something that sort of happened and that I morphed into with the music and with the gear. And the more I went out there, the more I went out there with Sherry, the more comfortable I got with it. And it just became, I don't know, to where me and the character were, you know, damn near identical. That says the best when it comes up. I mean, authenticity authenticity you know especially i've been working with an acting coach you know it's not about right or wrong it's about truth

truth and beliefs or uh truth beliefs and i don't know something like that but uh he's not paying attention not paying attention sorry sorry um but let's get into the match iron man match wrestlemania 12 what the hell are you thinking when they pitch you a 60 minute match now this But let's get into the match. Iron Man match, WrestleMania 12. What the hell are you thinking when they pitch you a 60-minute match? Now, that's got to be crazy. Well, so, look, on one hand, I know that this was something that, you know, one of the guys in our company, Pat Patterson, he always wanted, you know, to have an Ironman match.

He felt that Brett and I were the two guys that could do it. Brett and I felt like we were the two guys that could do it. But at that time in the business, you know, having an hour match on a pay-per-view is a huge ask. You know what I mean? Can you keep them interested for an hour? You know, can you build this match in a way that's, I don't know, if the viewer doesn't get bored stiff in the process. So that was honestly the biggest hurdle for this match is, you know,

continuing to make it exciting and continue to build, you know, till the very end. And, of course, one of the ways you can do that is by having a number of falls in the match so you can have sort of a number of smaller matches, you know what I mean, and have a guy win three falls to two falls. But, you know, Brett and I really wanted to just have it come down to one fall. And certainly at that time, you know, there's always been, you know, from the old school guys, there was always this kind of, I don't know,

this badge of honor that you wore. If you could go out there and do an hour, you know what I mean? I did an hour with, you know, you would hear stories growing up in the business from guys like Flair, Harley Race, Jack Briscoe. Yeah, I remember in 73, me and Funk, we did an hour straight in St. Louis, a place that sold out to the rafters. You should have seen it.

Your kids today don't know what we went through going an hour. So it was one of those things that you wanted to be able to say in 1996. Yeah, there was that time, WrestleMania 12, Hart and I went for an hour, sold out, Anaheim Pond. You know, just another walk in the park, boys, you know. So, you know, it was one of those things that, I don't know, it was a badge of honor. It was just something that not many people could say they did. That's bad. And so, you know, I don don't know that was a big moment

for us but honestly that was the most intimidating thing was going an hour and making it exciting oh sorry oh i mean was it weird because you and brett are kind of the stars of the show i mean i mean this is you're coming up brett has been there i guess a little longer than you he's 39 you're 31 was it hard being these two you know stars when you didn't get along well so at that time brett and i were getting along pretty well okay i mean so this that was that was the screw job in montreal a lot of that's when they went down exactly yeah that was long before all of that kind of stuff so this was honestly you know very you know pretty darn pretty darn amicable time for Brett and I. So it was more about honestly going out there and having a hell of a match.

At this time, would you say you and Brett were close? Yeah, look, I think so. I mean, we were certainly far and away way better than we were later on down the line. We were certainly on the same page. It was, this was the place where, you know, Brett had, you know, probably had the title for a year or two, but he had always, you know, he had expressed it once that, you know, that he felt like I would be the next guy, you know what I mean? That that would be taking that championship.

And so as far as all of that was concerned from a professional standpoint, I think we were pretty good. You know, there's always – clearly there's always a little uncomfortableness with the guy who's losing the title to a guy that's gaining it because it's sometimes – more often than not, it means a transition from a company standpoint, from going of one way of doing things to another. And so, you know, I certainly think that when you go from a title from Brett to me,

just from going to Brett in the first place was more of an acknowledgement that we were getting into more of the guys that could wrestle for long periods of time that could put on fantastic matches, as opposed to the champions of the past, like a Hogan, you know, that was more just a, I don't know.

He was a, he was a huge selling point, but it wasn't, you know, a 30 minute match that he was selling you on. It was a 10 or 15 minute match that he was selling you on, but it was Hulk Hogan. Did you respect someone like Brett way more than a Hulk? Well, look at that time,

you certainly do because you're into that version of wrestling. You know what I mean? I think over time I've really come to understand and appreciate what it is to draw money period. You know what I mean? And, and to understand that you don't – this business doesn't get where it's at without guys like Hulk Hogan. You know what I mean? Without guys like Steve Austin, The Rock.

You know what I mean? All those guys were fantastic. Well, look, and look, I think there's me and there's Brett. I think there's a number of us. But, look, that was a time, I will say admittedly, where we felt that it was more about work rate, as we would call it, than it was just being a big name. Well, you guys were wrestlers, wrestlers, I think.

You, Brett, Flair, guys like that. And then there's guys who are kind of like big ticket guys who aren't in ring as gifted as guys like the three of you you know yeah and i think that's a fair statement and you know again when you're younger you like i said you sort of you're proud of that and of course you want that to be you know the flavor of the day i mean this was pretty much the gateway to the attitude era because he was the old school boxer or me old school superstar you were kind of that new young punk guy you know kind of cocky that was like your swag about it so this almost foreshadowed going into like pretty much our generation yeah of what we used to watch because that was still like i felt that bret hart

was still like part of the little he was more of the old school and you were more a new school going into this fight would you agree with that or no well yeah well so certainly well yeah well certainly brett was comes from a more traditional purist background uh I was. And look, part of the idea that got me turned into a good guy was because of my bad guy persona, was because of the cockiness and the brashness. Now, when I went to being a good guy and winning the championship, they wanted me to be a different kind of good guy, which obviously history would tell us that that wasn't the right move. You know what I mean? That people preferred the Shawn Michaels with attitude and arrogance

and brashness and cockiness. But, you know, that was, again, that was still us trying to get out of that traditional purist style. So in some ways it was a bit of a transition, yes, but from a company standpoint, Vince still felt like the good guys should be a bit more wholesome as opposed to a good guy with an attitude, which wouldn't come to pass until, you know, a couple of years later.

He pioneered it. Yeah. Well, I mean, look, I think my bad guy aspects did. I mean, I think trying to put me in that box of being a good guy's good guy was a little difficult, especially at that time in my life, because that and the real guy were not wholesome, shall we say. Yeah. It's got to be more fun being the bad guy, though. It's got to be more fun being the bad guy, though. It's got to be more fun getting booze.

Well, look, I don't know anybody that doesn't enjoy being a bad guy better than being a good guy. Yeah. Because it's just so much more freedom. Yeah. You know what I mean? I always loved it. Everyone always asks me, me you know did you love

playing at foxborough or did you like i love playing on the road yeah you go play at you know new york and these and these fans are throwing dildos on the field and shit like that's the kind of shit i used to love and quiet them down and i would embrace my inner fucking superstar wrestler mentality and i literally would put myself in a mindset like I'm a fucking, I'm a villain. It's respect. I mean, I remember I was doing a show in Buffalo and I mentioned Julian's name and they all started booing and I was like, that's respect. That's because they respect him.

Well, no, but plus, like it takes you from a performance standpoint, I think, to another level. I mean, look, you guys, everywhere you went, you guys were, you know, after a while, you guys were hated everywhere. We were like the circus is coming into town. Everyone hated it. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And that's because of that success. But that's what, I don't know, certainly for me, I know that's what almost pushed me to even be better and greater each time. Because, again, the more they wanted you to fail, the more you upped your game. that's what almost pushed me to even be better and greater each time. Because again, the more they wanted you to fail, the more you upped your game. And so, yeah, I mean, one just feeds the other and I don't think people understand that the more they do that, the better it makes you and the harder you are to beat.

Proving people wrong is always fun, but let's get, let's get into the match. Beginning of the match starts and everyone says it's kind of slow but you know everyone says it started slow i'm sitting here these guys are about to wrestle for fucking 60 minutes like maybe they're like like let's feel let's feel let's feel each other out like how did you how did that beginning like was that the plan like all right we're gonna build this thing up and i heard you guys only you designed this 20 minutes before the match uh what you guys were going to say we well no so we we knew we okay so we knew we were having the hour um but i know like a week or two before i know brett sort of you know came to me he says like hey

how about we do this in like you know you think of the first 30 and I'll give some thought to the last 30. And then, you know, like a day before we'll sort of come together and see where we're at, you know? And, and, and of course, you know, you also, you know, we also talked about like, oh my goodness, we're out there for an hour. We can probably do darn near sort of every move under the sun, you know, think about stuff you haven't done in quite a while. I mean, let's really just think about what we can do to open up sort of the playbook, so to speak. And so that's honestly what we did kind of separately. But then I think a day or two before we just sort of came together and,

you know, you kind of prepare notes or show, you know, show each other's notes. But, again, back then you just can't really – that's the one upside of going an hour is that there is no rush. You know what I mean? You're not having to race against time cues and stuff like that. And you can sort of go out there and get a feel for what it is you want to do and where you're going.

So that's honestly what we did. We had a couple sort of what we call signposts in the road. You know, I mean, certain places at the match where you want to go like, okay, I feel like this is where we ought to be at about 20. This is where we need to be about 30. You know what I mean? And then 45. And then, you know, obviously those last five, you really want to make sure you nail down and button down. But look, it's just a whole different way of trying to, I guess, have a match. You know what I mean? It's just unlike anything you've done before because it's, you know,

it's stuff you haven't done before. So you've got to go about it differently. But, yeah, I mean, of course, you've got to start off. Look, I would argue, you know what I mean? And I'll say this. Look, you know what time in history does. I mean, people like, oh, it starts out slow. Well, that's because now you know it's going an hour.

You know what I mean? You've been told and heard that it starts slow. So, you know, it's exactly now with everything you hear that it is. But I think at the time, you know what I mean, when you go in with the unknowns of not knowing how many falls we're going to do, how many falls are coming, because it is a marathon match where, you know i mean when you go in with the unknowns of not knowing how many falls we're going to do how many falls are coming because it is a marathon match where you know you can add up falls so clearly it builds slow but and starts slow but you don't know where it's going and the thing is you can't ever you can't ever recreate the first you know what what I mean? And again, you know very well a play that, again, dazzled

them, again, in 1997 or 2003, seeing it on a number of highlight reels and then calling it again in 2022, it's not quite the same.

You know what I mean? But the first time, it was very different. It was innovative, and it worked. And look, that's one of the mindsets you have to go into watching this match. And I don't think a lot of people have the ability to do that now, so many years, you know, distant from it. This was like the first time I remember where like 15 minutes were fought outside the ring.

And I would say the momentum and when I was like, oh, my God, what the fuck is when you kicked the timekeeper. Tony Schimmel. Yeah. Now, was that in the was that in the process of like, all right, I'm going to kick this dude right in the face. You move your head or what? Or did that just happen? Because it didn't'm going to kick this dude right in the face. You move your head or what? Or did that just happen?

Because it didn't look that dude took took that boot to the face that I'm telling you. Wasn't he stretchered out? Yes. Yeah, he was. And it was it was, you know, pretty good in there. But very, very honored to say I didn't I don't you know, I didn't injure anybody. But no, that was something that I get. No, you did.

He was stretchered off, Kay. He was fucking stretchered off. Yes. Well, difference between hurt. Didn't say I didn't hurt him. Hurt and injured. Injured. Yes.

Exactly. Football guys know that, too. Coach, look at you. Hey, you hurt or you injured? Coach, I'm hurt. All right. We'll see you. Get back in. All i'm hurt all right we'll see you get back in all right hurt hurt you can survive and get back in there you keep going that's exactly right

was there a point oh sorry no i'm just gonna say that was something that somebody has suggested that we thought was freaking fantastic um but no that is not anything again this was a time in our business. You didn't go over stuff. You didn't, you were a pro. You don't get out there. You don't practice. This is one of those things that you go like, okay,

this is what's going to happen. All right. And you go out there and you make it happen. And you trust that everybody's going to be there and do what they have to do. And of course, being out there with a guy like Brett, that was absolutely no problem. I knew he was gonna get out of the way. It's just a matter of how hard I end up kicking Tony. I mean, you talk about Bret just making the right decisions

and you improvise so much with Bret because you can. I mean, there's so much that can happen there, but you've been in some epic matches going up to this. I mean, the ladder match, Razor Ramon. Like, was there something about Bread in the Ring where you were like, oh, shit, this is like, was there a point in this match where you're like, this is special? Well, because he was always technically, like,

one of the best. Yeah. Like, you could always tell, like, if you watch your guys' match, like, you could always tell, you know, these guys are executing their fucking shit, right? And everything looks extremely, like like it's very painful. It hurts. I mean, everything was smooth.

The transition from each guy, like the athleticism wise, the you know, the wrestling. It was insane. Like. So, look, because he is unbelievably precise in all of that. And and I will say being in there with a guy like him makes you better you know what i mean in that kind of stuff where you where again i feel like i had all the flash the dazzle um i think i was good wrestling but i i've always said you know we're talking about you know i know there i got I got asked on an interview once, like, who's a better wrestler, you or Bret Hart? And I just and I, you know, for the first time it dawned on me like, oh, better wrestler, Bret, for sure.

Bret, better, you know, better performer, showman, performer, me. But there's a difference. But Bret was so precise and so good and everything he did that I felt like it made me better and more attentive to all of those things, to the transitions, to the working of the holds. And that's one of the things that I always enjoyed about him because he just always made people better. To answer your question is yes. Yeah, you feel pressure because look, nobody has a bad match with Bret Hart. Thankfully at that time, you know, nobody was having bad matches with me. So between the two of us, we understood, you know, the, the, the, the pressure and the bar at which the two of us had set. And that's, that's where it all comes down to. You have to deliver

on that bar. And that's, that's, that's a pressure and a burden both of you are carrying in that match. But, you know, obviously, you know, you rise to that. That's what makes you better. Yeah. And then the end of the fight, legendary finish. I don't think anyone's ever not tapped in the sharpshooter. He gets you in there. Hold it for 32 seconds.

We think it's a draw. I'm like 10 years old. Like, what the we think it's a draw i'm like 10 years old like what the fuck it's a draw it's wrestleman no way bret hart leaves the arena or leaves the ring they call him back in you have to do it you're dazed and confused and get the sweet chin music like the ending was the the ending was gnarly yeah i, I mean, this is an epic match. I mean, where does this rank all time for you as a Shawn Michaels match? And where does this rank all time for you as a WrestleMania match? So, it's extremely special and near the top. Obviously, I'm in both categories there because, you know, it's WrestleMania.

It's with Bret. It's an hour. And it's for the championship. Those are worlds that, believe it or not, those don't always come along. You know what I mean? A lot of guys win world titles, but they're not all at WrestleMania. They're not in the main event. You know, they're not in a first-time-ever-done match.

You know what I mean? So when all those worlds come together, it's hard for it not to be special. And I think that's – because it's what it is in all those categories, it has its own place that it sits there in specialness. You know what I mean? That I think it lives on its own. Look, there are times that, you know, again, people have been critical about the match.

And, of course, everything you go back and you look at and you go like, well, yeah, no, I might have changed this, might've changed that. That's just the, I don't know. I think that's just the professional in all of us. You know, I don't know that I've ever had a match that I go back and I look at and I go like, well, I could have done this better. I could have done that better. But I think, I don't know. I think everybody does that because they're, you know, they're their own worst critics. But, you know,

I look back on so much of my career. I'm proud of, I don't, I got to do a lot of really cool stuff that I look back on other guys' careers and they didn't have as many of those cool moments as I did. That is certainly one of them. And I'm honored to, I don't know, again, the fact that you get to have a whole show where you talk about it, let you know how, you know, let you know how cool that matches and how it reigns in the hearts of other people that watched it.

I mean, you guys were the main event for an hour in a WrestleMania. Like, that's a token of how good you guys were because you're taking time from other people. I mean, that's when you guys were the stars of the world at that time. You both of you. Well, it's one half or one third of a you know of an entire paper yeah you know what i mean just for you guys where do you you know i mean and that was huge and unheard of at the time where do you rank i mean who's your number one wrestler is flair your guy yeah i mean yeah i'll i'll just always you know, I'll always lean to Rick for sure.

Yeah, because, you know, just because he's the one that made this job look like it was the coolest job in the world. You know, I mean, I just I knew that I wanted to do it. But then he just sort of encapsulated everything that you imagined the job would be and could be. And so, yeah, I'll always I think I'll always lean to Rick as being my guy. Look, right behind that falls Tully Blanchard and Wahoo McDaniels because those are the two guys I started out with in Texas. But, you know, I think when everything's said and done, it comes down to Rick.

Wow. How do you feel about being the one that ended his career? Again, honored because of everything that, you know don't know it meant to him and to me to have that match um you know again that was that was the 15 year old kid in me going out there with the guy that you know i i just admired for so long um and having the opportunity to take him, I think to a moment and something in his career that he'll remember forever. That's where, again, I don't know, I guess, Julie, when you guys share a Superbowl moment or a, I don't know,

a pass and a reception and a play that, you know, people will never forget in our little world, I guess that's how it is for us you know i mean when you're able to do something with someone that means more to you than just a teammate um and you're able to take him to do something that he puts at the very top of his career um i don't know that that was that was very important to me i guess so it has a lot of personal uh you know respect in my heart as well. A lot of thing with sports where people don't realize the relationships you

have with men that you compete with, compete against, uh, you know, those are the things that you take away. Like we can sit here and talk about, Oh, the party and the matches of this, that, but it's probably the relationships. And I'm assuming that you take away from this thing that you cherish for the longest. You know, the longest time. It absolutely is for me. Yeah.

I apologize. No, no, no. Get out of here. Get out of here. Now, let's do a little make-believe. You're booking with Next right now. Say you had to rebook the fight between you and Brett Hart in the Ironman match. What would you change it?

Would you do something different? How would you do it? Well, so look now here in NXT now, I think if we, uh, if we had an hour marathon match, um, look, I think we could, depending on if we, I don't know if I'd go to the one fall. If I did go to just the one fall, I wouldn't go to the overtime. You know what I mean? I think you'd capture it in the last, I don't know, 59, 35 or something like that.

Like you'd think it's going down to the wire. And I think I would. Nowadays, you would have to up the pace a bit. You'd have to have your wind. You'd have to keep it moving faster than we did, I think, at the beginning to keep them interested. And that's if you don't go with several falls throughout. I think when you go to several falls, it's a much easier build to come down to where you can tie it up,

say two apiece, and then you're coming down to 59.30, 59.40, and then you capture that last fall at 59.58. Oh, my goodness, he's the new world champion. We'll see you next week. How are you and Brett now? Fantastic. Brett and I

saw each other last WrestleMania and yeah, so we are obviously with a number of the A&E documentaries and stuff like that. They've done many on Brett and myself. And of course the story and Montreal and everything else.

But yeah, we saw each other at WrestleMania and it was unbelievably nice. Very pleasant. We're both in a great place in our lives. And again, I always sort of comment, because I think he knows how important it is to me for us to be where we're at. And he always sort of just pats me on the shoulder. And Brett's always had just a very calming, you know, presence about him.

He pats me on the shoulder and just very quietly says, we're good, Sean. We're good. You know what I mean? And I know that he means that and again to me for both of us to be at this place in our lives and for us to have experienced so much you know both together and individually away from the ring personally and professionally i think we're at a fantastic spot wouldn't change it for anything in the world i love it now uh sean you know i'm a free agent i know you're you're doing this whole you know nxt you kind of mentor these young wrestlers if i were to give it a shot you know what persona should i go

you think i have an opportunity where i could do it maybe you're gonna have to go oh yeah you kidding are you kidding we took punter, for heaven's sakes. I mean, Pat McAfee. All right? And you, my friend, are way more athletic than McAfee. And Pat was pretty darn good. So are you kidding? You'd be a piece of cake, man. You'd be a machine.

Plus, with your work ethic, it wouldn't be tough. I'd have to be a villain, I think. We could have you. Oh, for sure. Oh, yeah. yeah well that look that just comes naturally what and plus down here in florida you know i mean they love they you know coming from new england you don't have a chance doesn't matter where you're actually from mister as far as everybody's concerned you know what i mean you're a new england patriot and that's it so they'll boo you out of the building no matter where you go i love it i love it i used to welcome it i used to say i'm like papa i am what i am i'm just giving you a little uh little something maybe to work with another one because you you were famously in playgirl do you think julian could pull that off

yeah well are you still in shape i'm in shape you still in shape coach still got the abs going and everything yeah abs are abs are there abs are there legs that's all i've learned if you got the abs you can damn near get away with anything yeah you know my legs have shrunken a little just because of the load but that's a good thing in other areas it makes other things look bigger so i think i'm actually in a good spot right a load load makes my uh leg shrink too actually how many kids do you think got suspended take it from me go ahead i'm sorry a lot no one was going to say don't you be safe with me that i always cover up the legs so don't worry about that we got ways of accentuating

the body parts that need to be accentuated that's what this business is and answer your question more kids got expelled than i can possibly shake a stick at for the degeneration suck it oh yeah you know who was one of those kids still happening today you know who's one of those kids i got suspended for saying suck it or doing a suck it to my my p.e teacher at lunch and a lady walking by flagged him down told him i end up getting suspended for a day of school because i said suck it at least you know it was or i didn't i gave him a double jump fucking get one of those mr cows yelled at me already hated me teachers knew what was coming if you said if you're not down with this we got two words for you i'd get thrown out

before i could even get to suck it oh yeah well look that i claim to fame is that now we got girls here doing it yeah right and that is like that's that's that counts as consent. Again, yeah, that's what I'm saying. You can't. Oh, my goodness. You said that about me. I'm just saying to actually see, I mean, you know, women, kids, everybody doing that. It is.

It is absolutely hilarious. And, you know, heaven forbid, I hope the world can take a joke. Hey, I don't know. We're an anti-cancel podcast so you don't have to worry about that we take jokes here uh sean i mean uh legend thank you so much for joining us sexy boy heartbreak kid he's just a sexy boy sexy boy he's not your boy toy boy toy heartbreak kid the sexy boy i mean epic this was honestly i was so nervous getting into this because you're such a huge part of our you know part of me when i was a kid you know and

enjoying uh your career you know and now you're working with nxt i got yeah look i just gotta say like i i appreciate because i go i'm just saying young man i've with NXT. Yeah. Look, I just got to say, look, I appreciate it. I'm just saying, young man, I've watched you. It's been a, I don't know, you were just a hell of an athlete, a football player, man.

And it was, I appreciate, I appreciate talent. You know what I mean? When I see it, you know what it takes to, I don't know, you just made a lot of sacrifices,

deserved every one of those rings. And I appreciate you, I don't know, having me on man. And I don't know, let me walk down, you know, glory road for a little while.

Hey, you're still in the glory land, buddy. You have a, you have, you've done something that not many people, I would say, well,

how many WrestleMania champions are there? Not a lot. You know? So like, that is insane. We have so much respect for you now you're working for the wwe nxt that what airs on tuesdays eight o'clock on usa yes yeah yeah uh every tuesday night live 8 a.m to i'm sorry 8 p.m to 10 p.m usa network and

obviously this weekend, premium live event on Peacock, Halloween Havoc. It's our biggest premium live event of the year. It's going to be a hell of a show. Absolutely. You miss it? You know what? I don't miss the physical stuff. I mean, I get to live vicariously through these young men and women.

It's obviously great being a part of the creative. It really is. I love what I'm doing now. I love trying to help out the WWE for the future and all the young men and women that come through this place. It's my honor to help them, again, get to be a part of the same moments that I got to be a part of. I know how great it is to get to do that and just to be a part in helping them do that in their careers. I dig doing it. It's a hell of a lot of fun.

Dude, well, we thank you so much for taking the time and coming out and sharing your stories. It's been an unbelievable honor. You're our first superstar from WWE and we picked you on purpose because that match was that transition into that attitude period

which basically became our childhood did we miss anything? no nothing I can think of the zip line the zip line yeah we missed something

the zip line in he's not. Yeah, we missed something. The zip line in. He's not going to show up. Yeah, Jerry Lawler screaming, he chickened out. He chickened out. And then you come down on the zip line pretty bad. That was insane. It was probably the best entrance. Yeah.

No, thank you for taking the time. Still the coolest entrance to this day. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Thank you so much, Sean. Dude, that was epic. And now we know you have to actually you really have to be a wrestler i kind of pussied out there how'd you pussy i didn't show my abs that could have been my that that would give us a taste i know he's not here but i should i should have

showed him my abs because that this that was pretty much an interview yeah that was an interview that i failed you didn't fail you were great and and you're gonna be i think he could be we need to work on your persona for like a florida rest south florida hurricane jewels i keep coming down these streets getting eaten up by mosquitoes seeing how weathered everything looks i'm a california kid and it's nothing but humidity and trash out here in south florida i'm gonna treat them we're booing we're booing this is exactly how it sounded after we come down here twice a year to beat the shit out of the miami dolphins yeah we gotta work on that Yeah, we got to work on that. That's good.

We got to work on that. Yeah. We got to work on that. I'm glad Naples is underwater. Boo. Sam has South Florida hate too. I do. I do have some South Florida hate.

South Florida. Yeah, I saw that meme from that Dolphins fan. I got the most punchable face. Why don't you come see me? Okay, why don't you come see me over here? This is a new segment on Raw. Why don't you come see me? Why don't you come see me over here? This is a segment on Raw. The guy actually comes out. Julian gives him one super kick.

I got the most punchable face in here. What street are we on? Canal Street. New York, New York. But you're too broke. He's from South Florida. He doesn't have enough money to fly up here. We'll fly you out, coach.

But we'll fly you out. I'm looking for you. Yeah. Did we get the prop? Did we hit it? Here in my Google Doc, thankfully not my search bar, seven sexy boys. We got it.

You know who's excited when you hear that? Kevin Spacey. All right. No, we hit seven sexy boys. That's pretty good. I'm impressed. Who's excited when you hear that? Kevin Spacey. No, we hit seven sexy boys. That's pretty good. I'm impressed. I didn't think we pulled it off. No, at the end.

The end. I heard you put on the full court press, so then I went to the double team. I went to double team the imbalance. We double teamed. We crammed it in. Yeah, but it was all consensual The legacy for this match It's one of the greatest

I think It had to be I mean this was like the start When you say the Ironman match In wrestling this is the Ironman match Our match Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels Yeah Sexy boy versus what was he the executor the best there

is the best there was the best there ever will be the hitman the hitman heart that's those it was cool to see that it was cool to see them like you could tell from when we were asking sean questions about michael yeah i mean sean asking questions about brett yeah you could hear it in his voice that he loved like they love each other you know they're they're such a huge part of each other's history even though in the time and moment of that fight there was hostility that was probably gaining because he's you don't want to say the replacement but there was a passion of the torch in someone 100 i mean no one no one wants to be the backup quarterback no unless you're jimmy unless you're cooper cooper rush that guy's he's the guy's doing it yeah not this weekend but

he's but he humbled my but he's had a good he's had a good yeah i'm holding my own in this fantasy football league by the way you beat me last week yeah i'm holding my own dude you didn't even start someone and you beat me i you know what i had time for confession you guys kept hitting me up like when can you do it i'm like no nights work for me so i just had to be like whatever i'll figure it out i'm doing it in between sets at the cellar i'm talking to colin quinn like what do you think of this pick he's like i don't fucking know so i'm literally just like trying to figure this out and then i'm like shit i'm going on stage. Auto pick for this pick. These guys run off, get off.

Shit, two more picks. I was scrambling. I was like fucking Mahomes just trying to make shit happen. Like Mahomes I delivered. You sandbagged so hard. You were so unsure of your team. I was. I was hitting up Jack.

I was like, how do I look, man? You were sandbagging, bro. I look at you. Yeah. I got fully fucked. Did you? Yeah, because I had auto pick and who'd i get my first pick some terrible i got uh the running back edmunds i got edmunds from my that's my

first pick yeah i missed two rounds i'm out of the league now i missed two rounds josh allen and saquon were my first two picks pretty good picks saquon's a really good pick right now i think he's leading everything in you try not to bet with your heart But like I'm a Giants fan I gotta take Saquon And Josh Allen was a good first pick That guy's a fucking tank Bye bye bye Anyway the lasting image of this match

What do you think of? Lasting image of this match For me? Yeah I'd have to say him getting out of the sharpshooter like that was a huge wrestling move in my household my brother gave it to me i gave it to my sister everyone always tapped to see sean michaels not tap and bring it into overtime yeah that's spectacular this is almost like the 28 to 3 game in some ways goes into ot goes into ot once once we knew it was

going into ot you knew sean michaels once he that's the momentum it's like football game once you have the momentum it's over but he also for me the lasting image is him like almost crying sweaty right after he pins brett either that or the super kick because either way you know you know that's that's sean's time but also i mean the entrance was pretty tight it was badass for sure that's a big image huge zip line fully in yeah that was awesome the pictures of mcmahon doing it yeah in his jeans he had to try it it's a good boss you got to try this stuff huh so the name of the name of the of the match here did we forget anything jack oh sorry jack yeah what did we forget anything i think we're good on stuff. Just a couple of clarifications on a couple things.

We talked about the Browns moving in the middle of the night with those Mayflower trucks. They were deactivated for three years as of 96, so they came back in 99. Felt like 10 years. Felt like a while. Felt like 10 years for North Carolina. Speaking of feeling like a while,

that Cleveland Sports Championship championship drought 64 to 2016 52 years there's got to be more though i don't think detroit or detroit's got baseball teams hockey um jacksonville doesn't have one it's not a sports town i only got one major dirt one i don't got hockey triple a baseball or something uh yeah that's that's a long time and then we talked wrestlemania 12 we talked about getting it for free no pay-per-view over here over at uh whose house we're at jeff's yeah oh my boy jeff the cost of that pay-per-view 29.95 that was a lot of money that's a lot of back then yeah and monday night raw longest running weekly episodic program in the U.S., over 14,000 original episodes. More than The Simpsons?

Oh, yeah. How long has it been going? It has been going, let me see. I think it was close. That was the first time it did, 95. Longer than SNL? Let me see. Yeah, I'm caught. Wait. Jack, did we miss something or did you miss something here?

We need a stat correction within the stat correction. 83 or 93. Sorry. 93. So SNL. But it's probably some category. SNL is only 880 episodes because they take breaks. What about Simpsons

20 episodes breaks that's a good point yeah alright Jack you were right Simpsons is 730 as of October we never should have questioned Jack dude yeah I think otherwise heck of an episode

what's the name of the game guys what do you i mean i think it's the iron man match no doubt but the other option 60 minute men uh which is also a good grinder profile uh name the real not what is it i don't want no mini um the real 60 minutes i think it's got to be iron man match i don't think it's even a debate it's the iron man match yeah it's the iron man match i mean no yeah cal ripken you're not the iron man sean michael respect to cal ripken man actually we want you on here sean uh cal ripken yeah he's a stud but did you hear that wasn't that didn't they like postpone a game because of kevin costner oh i love that oh my gosh what happened kevin costner was having an

affair i think with his wife he found out got pissed made an excuse for the team to cancel the game kevin cost was having an affair with cal ripken's wife? I think so, I don't know This is just all speculation Paraphrasing, I could be fully wrong Yeah, and the Orioles were like, oh, power's out tonight Power outage, no good Power outage Sounds like the power went out in his household a long time ago Catch my drift

Damn, that's brutal, Costner He's even more evil than on Yellowstone That's fucked up I mean Costner's like the, that sucks because Costner's the baseball guy. He's the baseball guy. You can't watch Field of Dreams, Bull Durham, For Love of the Game. For Love of the Game.

Rifkin's got to avoid a shitload of classics. He can't even watch his own sport on the green screen. Yeah, they're like, do you want to watch? He's like, I'll watch The Natural. What if Robert Redford fucks his wife? Then he's really out of luck he can't watch any sports movie how do we score this game stakes are it's it's high stakes are high here stakes are pretty high because sean doesn't win it's wrestling there's wrestlemanias once a year you don't get a lot of shots this is the super bowl of wrestling and this is probably one of the strongest times

and it's the two big names in the sport it's got to be stakes have got to be like nine something am i crazy for this kyler's he's annoyed that i'm saying this already i can tell what do you what do you think not it's not nine it's WrestleMania, and it's an Iron Man match. It's two guys. It's not Stone Cold. I would say it's probably like a... I love Stone Cold, but I think Sean's a better in-ring guy.

If you want to go for name, fine, but if we're talking stakes, I mean... I would say a high eight. Eight, eight? Eight, eight sounds right right all right reasonable star power is i i know you're saying these i mean they were the biggest names they were the biggest of the time of that time i mean i would say probably a high eight eight eight again this is a michael irving score damn gameplay i mean you got to give them props this is a fucking

started a little slow but but as you said it had to i had to competitive stamina was a huge thing on this on this night yeah competitive stamina i still have nightmares of hearing mcdaniel say that week 14 what do you say nine two for gameplay i mean it's it's one of the greatest wrestling matches ever i think we got it nine two nine two name the iron man match i mean that's pretty it's pretty epic this isn't gonna be a high score for us dude is it gonna be the highest though no i mean it's it's up there i'm i'm i'm saying probably or are you going lower? low 8 8-4?

8-2? 8-2 what's our total? this is high 8-7-5 that's one of our biggest 8-8? was this an aggressive score? I think it fits honestly 8.75? That's one of our biggest. 8.8?

Was this an aggressive score? I think it fits, honestly. 8.8 puts it at number three overall. What's ahead of it right now? Behind Giants, Patriots, 18-1. And then Titans, Rams, Super Bowl, 34, the longest yard, which was an 8.9. We really gave a lot of props. That guy did not care for me at all.

Yeah, I think it was the jerk-off joke to a God-fearing Christian. Well, I'm a Kurt Warner-fearing Jew after that. Jesus Christ. He hated me. Oh, man, but we're right in front of 28-3. Whoa. 28-3 just got jumped.

That's rough Man Can't all be winners Can't all be winners But this is like You do have to give this match respect Yeah this is a big match I don't know if there's many wrestling matches

I want to hear in the comment section What do you guys think Are we giving it too much? Is this too high? I don't know. I think it's got to be. I mean, it's high. All right.

Well, follow Games With Names on YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok. TikTok. I said, I don't even know what I said right there. TikTok. Subscribe. Yeah. We're finishing each other's sentences? Wow. This is like a rom-com

dude. Oh my god. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. Comment. Give a like. A click. Rate. Review. Suggest a game. We want to hear from you. Yeah.

And that's all for this episode of Games and Names presented by Winbet. Thank you for listening. Thank you again to our sponsors. Follow us on all social medias. Sites, platforms, at Games with Names. I'm Julian Edelman. I'm Sam Morrell, and this is season four of Naked Sports.

Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. Every great player needs a foil. I know I'll go down in history. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's sports. Listen to the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career. That's where we come in. Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice. And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert Maury Tahiripour. If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit.

Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making of a rivalry. Kaitlyn Clark versus Angel Reese. People are talking about women's basketball just because of one single game. Clark and Reese have changed the way we consume women's basketball. And on this new season, we'll cover all things sports and culture.

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