Games with Names - The Miracle in Miami with Doug Flutie | Boston College vs. Miami

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

Doug Flutie is in studio! We have the Heisman Trophy winner and BC legend in our Boston studio to relive one of the greatest college football games of all time. Doug joins us in studio (7:10). We go back to November of 1984 (47:39). We get into the teams (1:04:08). We dive into the game (1:14:07). We score it (1:31:00). We wrap it up by blind ranking some of the greatest Hail Mary's of all time (1:41:01). Support the show: http://www.gameswithnames.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive bonus content by subscribing to iHeartTrue Crime Plus only on Apple Podcasts. You and I were on the sideline at Boston College. Yeah. Kent State's playing, and he's standing next to me. He's a small college quarterback, whatever.

He's like, yeah, man, Wes Welker ain't shit. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. I'm faster. I'm stronger. I can do that. I'm like, it's that cocky little quarterback right here, dude. Good for him.

Today, we have an unbelievably special guest. How about this, Doug Flutie. Yeah, Doug Flutie. Daddy was too smart to play in the NFL. Talking war stories, talking games, ultimately talking about the God damn Hail Mary. 35 years from your game, and we're still talking about this game. You say Hail Mary, everyone always brings up this game. That's how important and crazy this game is.

The two defenders go up and everybody just fall to the ground. And I see an official sign. I'm like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. How does it feel to have probably the most iconic play in college football history? Games with Names is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to Games with Names. I'm Julian Edelman.

They're Jack and Kyler. And we are on a mission to find the greatest game of all time. We're coming to you from Boston. Nuthouse, baby. OG. Original Nuthouse. Nuthouse East. Nuthouse East.

Over here in an undisclosed Boston location. Undisclosed Boston location. The boys are back in town. Let's go. And on today's episode, we are covering the Hail Flutie game. Boston College versus Miami from 1984 with Boston College legend, Heisman Trophy winner, and one of my heroes, my childhood heroes, and college football and Canadian football Hall of Famer, Doug Flutie. Flutie Flakes himself.

Flutie Flakes. This is a great one. This is a great episode. We get into talking about one of the greatest plays in college football, how your life changes after winning a Heisman, and the origin of the dropkick. We all remember it when he was a Patriot. When he was a Patriot.

And then we wrap it up by ranking the best Hail Marys of all time. So many historic Hail Marys to go over. Some crazy ones. That was a fun one. Wild one. I mean, greatest plays in football, baby. Hail Mary. Yeah.

But before we get to Doug, how about the Brady event at Gillette? What a night. Red Carpet Boys? Red Carpet Boys? Red Carpet Boys. Oh, my goodness jackie was on flow he was drake may recognizing jack drake may came up to davidson guys baby we stick together yeah no i think he just he's a star you're a star davidson basketball camp

stories chopping it up he said he wants to come on the pod at some point does he have any we got gotta have some games i love my guy we gotta have north carolina maybe some mac brown carolina games although all the carolina games that come to mind with drake may is like carolina puts up like 50 points and somehow at the end this is what we should they lose 52 to 50 the defense can't stop a nosebleed this is what we should do we want want Drake Mayon so bad because, you know, we're excited for him and his start. We need people to go and comment what Drake game. Tar Heel hits. Game.

Tar Heel or whatever. Maybe a practice. I don't know. Just something. We need to have something for us to do and talk to Drake Mayon. We love the drake we love the drake and um yeah i mean what a night i mean kyler's over here getting recognized by scott pioli scott but he was just but he was just like where's jack no get real get real get real so

yeah we're gonna get scott pioli on here also jules was getting a little saucy and heckling brady's speech i don't know if the microphone you gotta chirp it when you're out there i was i was like fully into the show i was eyeballs to the show the whole time like crying and stuff it was i mean the standing ovation and the reception that you guys got i mean it was it was overwhelming it was surreal the randy moss the randy moss it was something else man i felt that thing in my bones it was a fun night talk about emotional we haven't got to see each other all like in one area in a long time it's just we didn't even really get to see each other that much you know because it was

the show so you didn't really get to chop it up with everyone it was wild i mean just i was i was honored just to be there with you. Table 29. Shout out LeGarrette Blunt. The LeGarrette Blunt table. We were the fun table. The fun table. We were having fun.

I mean, that versus the roast. What would you say moved difference? This was more fun because it was more our guys. Right. More of the guys there. Homecoming feel kind of vibe. Yeah. Who's the bigger star, Jay-Z or Ben Affleck?

I don't know. I don't know. That's a tough one. I will say, no shade to Ben. We love you, Ben. Hope everything's going okay with the family and J-Lo. We want it to work. But Jay-Z did put on a better performance.

Jay-Z, I mean, and then two seconds later, you just hear a helicopter leave. I wonder if that was him. See ya. Bill Burr killed, too. Bill Burr killed too. Bill Burr did awesome. Dude, that's a hard fucking room. He killed it.

Yeah, but it's a hard room for people that aren't from Boston. That guy is Mr. Boston. I mean, he was on fire. He was the right guy to have for it. Yeah. And we had Dola there with us, man. Dolamite, Gronk, Camille. Gronk, Camille.

It was a fun night. Zandro. We got to get Nicoille. Gronk, Camille. It was a fun night. Zandro. We got to get Nico on. Nico. The Lavantier. Legendary, bro. Nikovic. Slate.

Mayo came in. Everyone was there. Bon Jovi. Bon Jovi. Bon Jovi. Bon Jovi. He kind of called me out and said, hey, he's like, hey, I thought we were supposed to do your podcast. I looked at him. I go, hey, he's like, hey, I thought we were supposed to do your podcast.

I looked at him. I go, John, you and I both know. If we come 45 minutes early to do the podcast here in Foxborough, that had just 30 people be coming in trying to get an autograph from you. Everyone would be talking. I want you in our environment. And he understood. He did. Okay, good. He understood. Because we be talking. I want you in our environment. And he understood. He did?

Okay, good. He understood. Because we were trying our hardest to make that thing work. Yeah, we were trying. Yeah. It just wouldn't have been right. He deserves the full treatment, focus, not just stealing 30 minutes in Gillette Stadium while everything's great.

And he's got a great rosé coming out. Oh, my God. There was talk of maybe going to the Hamptons, but I don't know. Hey. We'll see. Any excuse to go to the Hamptons and drink rosé with the Bon Jovi's family? Like, sign me up. The Bon Jovi's, as I think their real name is.

Legend, bro. And freaking, I don't care if we're talking Philadelphia's soul football. I don't care what the fucking soul, baby. He was the owner. I wonder if you would, because he was an early Giants fan, right? And then he became a Patriots fan. I bet he'd want to do a Pats game, but it'd be fun he was an early giants fan right and then he became a patriots fan yeah i bet he'd want to do a pats game but be fun to do an early giants game sipping rose sitting on the back porch in the hampton sounds all right to me talking some ball hanging

with richie sambora heck yeah man bon jovi get angie out there and you'll be pissed no angie she'd be in trouble yeah my mom loves bon jovi she loves bon jovi all right let's get it let's go let's go november 23rd 1984 the orange bowl miami florida boston college trails miami 45 41 time winding down in the fourth quarter. Doug Flutie drops back with that drop that he does. He doesn't really drop, he just goes backpedal very fast. He launches a prayer into the sky of Florida. This is Hail Flutie. Yeah. Welcome to Games With Names and today we have an unbelievably special guest.

Unbelievably special guest. We had Doug Flutie in the Nuthouse in Boston, hanging out with us, talking war stories, talking games, ultimately talking about the goddamn Hail Mary. Yes. I think they named the actual play after this play, the Hail Mary.

After you wore the shirt. Hey. After that. We can get into the shirt. Yeah, this shirt. But when I was... So what years were you in at bc no i'm talking about the chargers when chargers years 2000 to 2004 yeah i had your jersey i went i went to ross

i saw doug flutie jersey i picked that thing up i was a little quarterback you were my hero like it's it's it's unbelievable to have you in here well you had just gotten drafted you and i were on the sideline at boston college yeah um and which is kent state kent state was kent state's playing and he's standing next to me this you know he's small college quarterback whatever and i i i knew they had drafted you he's like yeah man west walker ain't shit i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do that i'm faster. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. I'm faster. I'm stronger.

I can do that. And I'm like, it's that cocky little quarterback right here, dude. Good for him. And he went and did everything he ever talked about. But that was the first time we met. And that was, you know, he's a man after my own heart. Because, you know, the small guy. And go after it and do it.

And shoot, you did it a big way. Get out of here, man. You literally literally I watched you so much I admired you your ability to play the game with our height I would say maybe three inches I'm three three centimeters taller maybe yeah probably I'm getting shorter by the year too but I'm old this guy won the goddamn heisman trophy think about that unreal today we are here to talk about the hail flutie game boston college versus miami 1984 and we all remember this last play of the game where doug sits back drops back They got people come at him.

He steps up, throws a ball damn near 65 yards, and they beat the convicts. The Catholics beat the convicts. And, I mean, this is such a legendary game. Why this game, Doug? We had our bowl game in our back pocket. They had their bowl game in their back pocket. They had their bowl game in the back pocket. It was just a bragging rights game.

And Bernie Kosar was the other quarterback. And the two of us just had one of those days where I, I don't know. I threw for like four 70 and he threw for four 50. And we were, you know, this is back before everybody threw the ball a hundred times a game. And it was just one of those days who ever had the ball last was going to

win. And they scored with 28 seconds left. So it's like they won, right? My philosophy was get in near midfield and throw it at the end. A really cool twist came up. 35th anniversary of the pass, right? I'm doing interviews about it and see a different camera angle. For 35 years, my tight end, who was the backup tight end at the time,

was in the game because the starter had a sprained ankle Pete Casparilla was playing tight end on the play on the back side he's supposed to be in protection and there was an inadvertent whistle I go to Pete I go hey they're only rushing three get wide go long down the boundary I might roll right I was going to roll right and launch it right buy some time just in case if they drift i might peek backside and hit you down the back rail we get in the locker room after the game he's like we had a shot we had a shot for 35 years i hear 35 years i hear we had a shot we had a shot we i saw a different camera angle pete is all by him i have a picture on my phone pete is all by himself at the 10 yard

line on the back side when the ball's in the air. They all, the backside corner, the guy that jumped up with Gerard, Gerard went by everybody. They started backpedaling. Free safety was in a great position to make a play. Backside corner drifted over. They jump up, bump into each other. Ball goes through clean.

Gerard catches it. Touchdown history, right? Backside corner. The guy that was supposed to be over there is 30 yards away from his man i could pete would have been a walk-in on the backside i threw it to the wrong guy i called pete right after i finally said 35 years later right i called pete i said hey you were right you were open i got a picture of it now on my phone he goes yeah but i would have dropped it that's crazy because last play of the game situation which they were clearly in

we had and and Doug's talking about the guy being free leaking out late we used to have a play which last play of the game you always have a box like the Hail Mary like what they ran you have a box you got a guy two guys up top a in the bottom, a guy in the middle. That's what you try to do. So a guy in the middle tries to tip it. The guy's in the front and the back. They try to get deflections. But what you said was your boy who was leaked out late, we used to have a play where we'd throw everyone there

and Gronk would go. And you ever seen Varsity Blues? Yeah. Remember when like Billy Bob, they had that play where they're like, Hey man, just kind of, just kind of act like you're a little slow and, and,

and get out, leak out. Well, we had a play where we put all our guys up front and Gronk had to like leak out like Billy Bob and he goes, and then all of a sudden he flags it. You know, have you seen that?

You know what I mean? They backside it, which is kind of what that is. Well, it was, you know, just, you know what's amazing is we ran it three times in my career we had to throw Hail Marys. Earlier in the year at halftime against Temple, it looks identical to the Miami pass, and Gerard catches it in a crowd on the goal line for the touchdown.

We were two for two my senior year on Hail Marys. My junior year, at the end of the half against Notre Dame in a bowl game, I threw one, and Brian Brennan, he played with Cleveland. Brian's on a dead sprint at the back of the end zone. It was at the Liberty Bowl, and the field was ice, and there was a cement wall 10 feet behind the goal. Yeah, he was afraid of running into the wall. He kind of short-armed it, afraid of the wall.

He slid into the wall anyway, but he dropped it. We could have been three for three in the career. It's stupid how often it happens. Folks, do you hear that? We all talk about, what, Aaron Rodgers and his little Hail Mary. Definitely it was two for three and got him one year. One year in the Hail Mary. One year. Aaron Rodgers. Aaron hate that, Rogers. One year.

Aaron Rogers. Aaron, see, he made it so. It was a weekly thing with Aaron for crying out loud. You know what made ours big was everybody hated Miami at the time. Wow. And it was Thanksgiving weekend, and it was a large TV audience and all that. So it was little guy versus the big guy, all that stuff. So that's what made it so big.

And the Heisman T trophy winner is going out, taking a deep drop. No one expected him to do what he did. A little shuffle, throws it deep, hits his roommate, touchdown, game over.

Yeah. Tom talks about, Tom talks about his relationship with the receivers and how everybody, you know, you build this trust and all that. Gerard was at, Gerard caught like five passes that year they weren't even thrown to him you know i drew an in route the guy gets lit up ball bouncing in the air gerard so slow clearing on the post that he reaches back and you know catches it you know you overthrow what

gerard's there he dies he just had a knack for finding the ball and he is it's amazing nose for the ball is this the greatest game of all time it was a great game even without the last pass like you erased the last pass it was a phenomenal game so it's in a top 10 there's just so many though there's so many out there though i love the boise state game beating oklahoma you know and the trick play so we had we had adrian peterson and zach zembranski on on the show to talk about that game which that was in my generation i was in college when that was happening so like that era was crazy but we're we're 40 years 35 years from your game and we're still talking about this game you you say hail Mary. Everyone always brings up this game.

That's how important and crazy this game is. Well, I had a podcast a couple years ago, and I had Roger Staubach on it. Staubach. And a lot of people, like you said, give me the credit for the label of a Hail Mary, right, because it was Boston College and all that stuff. Well, he threw a go route to Drew Pearson inarson in a playoff game against minnesota with seconds left

looked like drew pushed off a little bit made the catch goes for the touchdown to win the game and they referred to that as a hail mary at the end and that's where it was actually coined so roger always had a little beef with me that he did it and yes i give him full credit it was roger man roger stallback i remember he came and talked to our team once. He's an impressive dude. Oh my God, yes. He's just a stand-up guy. Left the league to go serve the country.

He just looked and smelt like a leader when he walked in. His entire life, the way he led it. And then afterwards, he's ridiculously successful commercial real estate guy all that stuff just everything he touched everything he does and i went to i don't know events where you get around the other cowboys that played with him and the way they talk about him the way we all talk about tom yeah you know it just absolutely uh first class he was that guy he was that guy. You see on the set here what we got?

We got a Natick High School helmet, by the way, and we got the Flutie Flakes box. The original, the red box. The original box. We went to the school and got it.

That's from the trophy case. From the trophy case. You guys are pretty good. Pretty good. That's pretty awesome. I'm a childhood hero. We called the damn school and said, we got to get these goddamn Flutie Flakes up here.

We got a guy on the team that played football for Natick, so he had the in for us. Oh, my buddy Paul. Paul Galani followed me, and he was a quarterback at Natick High School after me. Yeah. He went undefeated, 38-0 state champ. I didn't do squat.

We won games. We were like 8-2, 8-3. He didn't do squat. He didn't do squat. He didn't do squat. He didn't do squat. But Paul games we were like 8-2-8-3 didn't do squat but but paul paul he'd be all about having the nata comment here nah it's it's a pleasure having you here in the nut house so boston edition boston edition yes right that's even better boston edition this west coast stuff i don't know you know know, I got to get out there. I got to be out there, bro. Although I do love the waves.

I love the waves on the West Coast. Waves. My guy, Flu. Flu's over here talking about waves. We're going to Costa Rica. I'm taking you. We're going. Listen, we were talking about it earlier when we walk in. I'm sitting here.

I think it's 2010, 11, 12 or something. I'm in the training room. I'm getting my goddamn ankle worked on. We got the local news on. We always had the local news on. Flutie talking about waves over here. There was a flood in Boston. Some river overdid something.

You have the local news sitting there like covering the situation. They're like, oh, yeah, the river is over here. We have some crazy flooding. And out of nowhere, in a canoe, you see Doug Flutie just canoeing by. It wasn't, this was not supposed to be part of the program. It's literally just Doug. Hey, guys, how you doing? And then just keeps going while this lady's over here talking about the flood.

You love waves, huh? The Charles River overflowed that year, and I was over at my buddy's house. I'm like, Paul, gee, the quarterback I was just talking about, I go, let me steal your kayak real quick. I'm going out on the river. Sure enough, there was a camera crew. I don't know. But you're right, though.

Oh, look at you get the picture. 20 times. Yeah, I mean, it was overflowed. I got my Natick sweatshirt on and everything um yeah you're going through yards i mean that's like probably in somebody's backyard or front yard going through because it had flooded way up yeah too funny how about the brady event last night that was pretty cool that was guys huh absolutely ridiculous i mean i was i only got to spend one year with you guys and one year

with tom and it was absolutely amazing and to see 60 000 people show up for an enshrinement type you know it's an event where you put it in a ballroom you get a couple hundred people you make a big deal they did it right they did it right for tommy he deserved every bit of it the way people talk about Tom, the way – I get jealous of the relationships he had because he was able to stay in one place for so long with all you guys and everyone that came through. But, God, it was an amazing night.

I just had my head on a swivel saying hi to old friends. It was like a class reunion for the rest of us. But, boy. And then Tom Speed. Tom gets up and talks. It's like, this guy's an NFL quarterback, right? He played quarterback. We're all jocks, right? We play ball. We paddle down rivers, surfway, whatever we do, right? He gets up like he was a polished politician with a 30-minute speech and hit everything and was so succinct. It didn't leave anyone out.

It's just amazing. He amazes me in everything he does. That's what you said, politician. I saw Tom and I was like, I want to vote for him.

I thought he was going to end the speech with and that's why I'm running for 2024. You and Gronk were chanting four more years. Four more years.

We were getting some chants going. Jules was heckling tom's whole speech i would have four more years oh my god oh my god could you imagine tom oh my god i'll be you honestly i would vote for him oh hell yeah he's a genuine like like to have all the relationships he had but to be able to have one thing to say to every single guy that he looked at like he just he's a genuine dude i said it you know the year i i played one year when mp blast me out with was like tom tom and i'm like you know what he makes everybody in the locker room

in the training room in the front office feel like they were the reason we we won the game. The guy on scout team getting taped before practice, hey, I need a good look at it. Great job yesterday. You were amazing. We need a little more of that. You need to be, you know, every guy. And he talked about, some of the guys talked about, you know, there were low round draft choices

coming in trying to make a team. Oh my God, that's Tom Brady. I want to say hi type thing. And Tom knows you. That was me. You said it right you said one of those right but but tom knew who you were he knew your history a little bit already he he made a point to make you feel welcomed and who you are you know significant right away no and

that's what people don't realize like i'll be out in a city and people will be like, oh, what's Brady like this? I fucking hate this guy. I'm like, I'm telling you right now, if you met him, the aura that he brings in and he's just, he's a sweet man. He's just a sweet guy. He's like a, there's nothing else you can say. He's a genuine person. Yes, he is. And you see it because of his family and what he grew up

in his mom is such a a sweetheart his dad like they're crying every two minutes during this whole ceremony rightfully so it's just it was a great night it was it was unbelievable it just and i played till i was 43 right my last couple of years it was a grind you know it's like maybe because i wasn't the starter you know i was in a point where i'm definitely the backup and i'm just saying i don't know but it was hard to get motivated every day to watch film and prep and all that you did it but you're it just wasn't the same tom left here goes to tampa wins another superbowl had another great year after that and how how at that age, at that point, playing for 20-something years,

you continue to have that drive on a daily basis to keep getting better. And Tom did that, you know, when I, he was already Tom Brady when I went to, you know, Super Bowls and all that before I got to New England that year with him. And he's watching film of practice of watching himself throw the ball and

how he's going to get better and after practice how he's going to get better i like i it was just impressive on a daily basis and to do it as long and still have that passion at the very end was absolutely amazing it was it it was and what people don't realize i was in that same boat where he was already tom motherfucking Brady when I got there. He wasn't Tom Brady yet. He wasn't Tom Brady. He was Tom MF Brady. Where three Super Bowls, he had the supermodel wife, he had all the success, all the accolades.

But if you were to walk into an offensive room or you walk into a practice and you watch Tom, he's the guy, he's the guy that's working the hardest. And he always practiced with a purpose. It never, it was never just like, let's get through the motions. Let's just go flop it out there. Let's throw a couple in cuts.

Let's throw a couple out. It was like, he was so focused on every day that he did something. I mean, I think it was my, I think we won a Super Bowl. We're going back to play another one two years later, and I think it's week 14. He's got Tom House. In week 11, week 12, he flies out his quarterback coach,

this guy who already has four Super Bowls, who already is Tom Brady. He flies out a quarterback coach in week 11 to work after practice with a guy just to tighten up his fundamentals a little. Yeah, if he felt like something wasn't as accurate, he missed a throw the week before, right? He misses a throw. And his quarterback guru's out on a plane the next day. Fix me.

We played golf, Tom, the group of us. And Tom Fish was his guru with the golf, teaching him. He had a new swing. And Tom was shooting par golf, hitting the ball like a pro. Even par after 16 holes. On 17, he mishits a drive, winds up with a double bogey. 18, I think he either bogeyed 17 he mishits a drive winds up with the double bogeys 18 i think he either bogey he mishit his drive again on 18 he called on the 18th green he called fish to meet him on the driving range as he walked off the 18th green he goes over to the driver and

starts working on a swing because he mishit two ball and that's tom that's who he was or who he is is that mentality just are you born with it or do you develop that or is it a combination of two yeah it's inside it's in a i'll tell you he and i and we all need something that motivates us on a daily basis to get better every day i always had a chip on my shoulder about the height thing, right? People telling me I couldn't do this, couldn't do that. And, you know, I, and I remember a quote from Steve Grogan saying, why is, they asked him, why is Doug still playing at 43? Cause he's still trying to prove people wrong. And that's Tommy not being drafted high. I think stuck in his crawl forever. I mean, he was already the way he was, but that's why he played as long as he did. I think he wanted to shove it down their throat just on a daily basis.

There's gotta be something in the back of your mind that's driving you every day. 100%. And also I believe Belichick with his Jedi mind tricks and the way he put them on the table in front of everyone. Like I just watched an interview of Tom talking. Oh, three weeks ago, what did he say? He goes, you know, I needed to be pissed off to play my best football.

And what did Bill do every fucking day? Pissed him off. Hey, Tom, what the hell is this? What the hell, bro? You're trying to just give him the ball. You're hitting him right in the... What are you doing? You know, yeah, Bill had that sarcastic way.

He came on to a Wednesday morning meeting. And you better have watched film. And you better have already looked at your scouting report and been ready. Because he started firing. Question Wednesdays, you better get it right. Now, being a native guy, how was it playing for the Pats? With your whole journey, I mean, you went to the USFL. You can go to Canada. You get to come home i mean you played for san diego you played for buffalo but to come

home and play for the pats what was that like that was really cool i i played with the pats in the late 80s for three and a half seasons yeah oh here's the great this is a cool yes it was great having hometown fans people loving it was also a hassle. It was also a headache because if I wasn't the starter, like in the late 80s when Tony Eason and Grogan were there, if I wasn't the starter, I was a headache to have because every time there was an incompletion or an interception, they start chanting my name. They want me in the game, blah, blah, blah.

And every time I did get on the field, good things did happen. But it created a little bit of an issue. Funny story. In the 80s, I would drive from Natick to Foxborough, and I'd stop at the McDonald's on 109 going through, is it Millis? I think it's Millis, and get my hotcakes and sausage and head to the stadium, right? And there was this woman that worked at McDonald's, and this was in the late 80s. I re-sign in 05. Come back for one more year. I'm driving from Natick to Foxborough.

I stop at the same McDonald's. The same lady's working the window 18 years later. I mean, you can't make it up. She goes, I knew you would be coming by the time that they signed you. I knew you would be coming. Are you kidding me? Man, that... History is filled with strange, unusual, and unexpected stories.

Stories about people who have accomplished extraordinary things. Pets that have gone above and beyond. Events that have defied explanation. And I'd like to tell you about them. I'm Aaron Manke, and for the past six years, I've been sharing the most curious tales in history with millions of listeners around the world on my hit podcast, Cabinet of Curiosities. With well over 120 million downloads to date, listeners have been fascinated by such tales as the surprising country that invented the croissant, the stowaway-turned-hero who helped

capture a Nazi spy, and the wrestling champ who went on to win the White House. And now, finally, nearly 200 of these amazing stories from the podcast have been gathered into one book. Curious to know more? Pre-order Cabinet of Curiosities, available November 12th, wherever books and audiobooks are sold. Learn more over at GrimAndMild.com slash curiosities. Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently hit the number one science podcast in America. I'm a neuroscientist at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. We're looking at a whole new series of episodes this season to understand why and how our lives look the way they do.

Why does your memory drift so much? Why is it so hard to keep a secret? When should you not trust your intuition? Why do brains so easily fall for magic tricks? And why do they love conspiracy theories? I'm hitting these questions and hundreds more because the more we know about what's running under the hood, the better we can steer our lives. Join me weekly to explore the relationship between your brain and your life by digging into unexpected questions. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David

Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal. Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps, and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee. No dumb hot takes here, just smart hot takes. We'll talk every single game, every single week, but I can't do it alone.

So I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. That's Patrick Claiborne, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook, Jordan Rodrigue from the athletic. And of course, Colleen Wolf. This is their window right now.

This is their Superbowl window. Why would they trade him away? Because he would be a pivotal part of them winning that Super Bowl. I don't know why, Colleen. Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

That had to be such a crazy dream. I mean, for me, I grew up in the Bay, and I grew up a Niners fan, and I had the actual opportunity. I was going to sign with San Francisco, potentially, in 2014. I was on a visit with the Niners. They offered me a way better contract, Bill, you fucking asshole.

No, Bill's over fucking asshole. No. Bill's over here. I also got to say this. Bill's over here. I'm like, yo, Bill, you going to come on my goddamn podcast? He goes, how much are you going to pay me? I go, I'm going to pay you the goddamn amount of money you didn't pay me when I signed four contracts with you. That's the amount of money

I'm paying you. We'll give him the rookie deal. We'll give him the rookie deal. League minimum. Got to prove it. I forgot my train of thought, Bill. You just fucked me up. San'll give him the rookie deal. We'll give him the rookie deal. You've got to prove it. League minimum. You've got to prove it. I forgot my train of thought, Bill. You just fucked me up. San Francisco. 49ers, yeah. So I'm sitting there, and just like Flute said,

if I were to sign back with the Niners, the amount of headaches you're going to have to deal with. Oh, think about tickets. Tickets. Oh, my God. Fans, friends, family. Everyone's come out of the Woolworks. that just had to be such a cool experience it was fun to play at home and all that and the ticket thing you know you line up in the beginning i i bought them all and put them at will call and

then half the guys wouldn't show up because they just assume you're getting them for free oh yeah right so like a nasty weather i'll watch it at home or whatever meanwhile you bought you paid for all these tickets but it was it was cool to to play in front of your friends and family and all that stuff but um you know you relaxed on the road you got on the road you got the extra nap in you slept on a saturday a little bit some of your best sleep came on that bus ride in that plane. Yeah. All the prep. Now, you're driving on 190 going to get your hotcakes in the morning at the McDonald's. Can you walk us through the dropkick?

You're here in Foxborough. Yes. You're in Foxborough. You're a hometown area, and you're getting to do something that hadn't been done since we don't even know. There's a whole drop kick. Actually, I took a picture last night with Matt Castle, Tim Dwight, and Lonnie Paxson. And Cass threw the touchdown to Tim as I was talking to Bill about doing it. And I'm like, are you serious yet?

And I ran out on the field, and Lonnie was the long snapper, so it was a cool little picture of the guys that made it all happen. Chris Berman was the guy at practice on a Friday talking to Bill, whispering in his ear, you know, Flutie can drive, he'd see him messing around during pre-games and stuff.

And he's like, and Berman knew the history of it, it hadn't been done since 1941, so he went to Bill. Bill calls me in the office. Now I'm 43 years old. I'm doing Jack for the team. I'm hanging out with pom-poms, cheering for Tommy. Let's win a Super Bowl.

I'm thinking I'm getting cut. I don't know. I'm walking into Bill's office. What do you want? And Berman's standing behind him, just beaming. Bill's like, can you drop kick? I go, I can do it. I don't know.

Is it legal? I go, yeah, it's still legal. He goes, well, work on it. We go i can do it you know i don't know is it legal i go yeah it's still legal he goes well work on it we're going to do it tomorrow in practice so that was the beginning of it we were going to do it on a monday night against the jets i got in the game we drove down we were going to do it as a field goal and we stalled out around the 35 or something it's going to be a 40 something yard we didn't do it forgot about it for two weeks i'm on the sideline standing next to Bill and we're on the five yard line in the middle of a play. Bill sees me there. He's like,

hey, we score here. You kick it. We were in before he finished his set. We were in the end zone. I ripped the jacket off, go out, blah, blah, blah. Are you serious? I took a ball out of an equipment guy's hand. I did a little punch into the stands that I I'm I'm gonna pull a muscle i'm gonna strain i i'm in the huddle trying to do the old man stretch all that it's 20 degrees out i got a jacket you're 43 i'm 100 years old and uh we get out there and all the guys like they'd already won super bowls right this is the patriots these are the guys they were acting like a bunch of little kids at christmas they were fired up about this right and bam i think bam childress was there bam was a bam bam was a uh he just got activated for this game he's a wide receiver he's out there sam madison's like you're running a fade aren't you

he said no no no check it you're not watch the slam watch like pam's like no check this out this is gonna be cool watch this and that's what lonnie, like there was a, they used a timeout. So Lonnie came back. Steve O'Neill came back. We were back in the huddle and they're like, Keith Traylor's over my nose. He's going to kick my ass, right?

I'm like, just tell him what we're doing. So there are a lot of conversations going on to keep these guys from rushing it because they'll probably block it. Anyway, Lonnie snaps it. Keith doesn't beat him up. Lonnie steps through.

Zach Thomas, linebacker, steps up. What the fuck was that? anyway Lonnie snaps it Keith doesn't beat him up Lonnie steps through Zach Thomas linebacker steps up what the fuck was that Lonnie looks right he's like that's a drop kick motherfucker I've been done in 64 years and you know division it was really it was it was a cool thing it was a cool thing for me because I didn't do squat the whole year but hang out and cheer for Tommy and uh you know the guys got the smile about it, whatever. And then I jogged to the sideline,

and I go to Bill for a very awkward hug. He's not a touchy-feely. Very awkward. Very awkward hug with Bill. Well, my daughter tells me after the game, you blew off Tom Brady on national TV. Tom came out for a high five. I went right by Tommy to Bill.

You've done that too. Lift Tommy. Isn't he awkward? Isn't he awkward on the high five? I mean... He doesn't make eye contact. Oh, he doesn't make eye contact. You know, he just kind of puts his arm up.

I mean, you haven't lived until you walk by a Tom Brady high five. You haven't lived until you've done that. This is Coach Belichick after the dropout. Coach right after it happened. That's like the biggest smile i've ever seen bill belichick out on his face incredible now do you think coach wanted to do this just because he loves football history he loves the history of the game very he used to talk about the veer and his dad and yeah all the history of you know what that was option football back with

navy and all that stuff so he loved the history of the game. Was he giving you on, you know, every once in a while on a Friday practice? Were you guys practicing the free kick situation before half? Were you fair catch? Oh, yeah. All that stuff. And you get a free kick. Like, it hadn't been done since 68. I think the Chiefs tried it at the end of a playoff.

Yours was the last successful one. No, I'm talking about the free kick. Oh, the free kick. Free kick is a situation where before half, if it's the last, time could be going out. All the fair catch. But if you fair catch, you have an opportunity to have a free kick where it's like a kickoff.

Place it, yeah. And you get to kick it. On a tee too, right? Well, no, no. That's the one thing on a free kick. But see, a free kick, you could do a drop kick as well yeah now i was with morstead uh new orleans saints punter he was at smu as a college kid just after i had done this i retired i went in the espn i start doing games and do an smu game he's all fired up to to meet me and he's like after practice

we're gonna do some drop kicks oh yeah so we go i saw him hit an 80 yard drop kick jesus it was like shot out of like he was an old rugby player and he could hit this thing there's the punters that have the strong legs hit it on the upswing and the ball bounces off the ground a little bit so you get more it was like shot out of a cannon now the accuracy the ball's doing this, it's hit so hard. But in a desperation situation, you could hit like a 70, 80-yard dropkick some of these punters. Now, how come you could dropkick?

I grew up as a kid in Florida, never wore shoes. But I learned to kick barefoot, and I never had anybody to hold for me, so I'd drop it and kick it, and just kind of messed around doing it. And then Mike Vanderjagt and I, Mike was the kicker with Indy, our idiot kicker, right? Our idiot kicker.

He was our kicker in Toronto. And he and I would go out and pregame like hours before, messing around, we'd have little competitions, and he could really drop kick. And when we played indie when i was in buffalo um we would go out i'd meet mike on the field early we'd mess around drop kicking and that's when berman saw me doing it led to berman talking to bill and it happening so it's so crazy because i remember when i was still in i still in high school when you did the drop kick.

I'm old. Frickin' dirt. Well, I'm old. We're all not young. But I remember seeing that, and so I always used to drop kick. And so in practice, we'd be dicking around. I'd go to Double J's, our old equipment guy, and I'd drop kick him a ball, and everyone would be like,

Flutie! Flutie. Breeze and I, when I was in San Diego, I would do it all the time, drop kick all the time, messing around at practice. And Drew and I would get on a line, and Breezy and I would play catch, drop kick from 20 yards apart, keep it down the line, hit it to each other. So Breezy tried one in a Pro Bowl. He's like, Flutie, is it okay if I do?

I got to do a drop kick. It was Pro Bowl, and he tried it, and he dropped it and had a bad drive, kicked on a line drive into the line of scrimmage or something. I was kind of happy it wasn't successful. That's crazy. Now, you played from... 1800s now you played from 85 to 2005 20 years what was the biggest change you saw

in the league in football or through your transition from playing in three different leagues i mean people he was he went to the usfl for the usl or USFL USFL first got a crazy contract Heisman Trophy winner then he leaves USFL you go to Canada then you come back to the NFL for a bunch like what was the biggest changes you saw in football in your career it went from because of free agency in the old days guys were on a team they were there for a while and you built an offense and you just generically we'd go red right 64 line up in a slip back set 60 protection four route was a curled everybody knew their complementary route and ran their complementary route free agency kicked in guys were coming for one year and you got to learn the offense you got now you had to call everything.

So instead of saying red, right, 64, it was, if you want to put shifts in motion on it and things got more complicated, it was like tiff to queen, left slot, close, act four, zip, act four, 7-6-0, F-shoot, sneak. You're calling everything. And then you had a second play on that too. So alert, alert, whatever, right? So now the wristband thing came into play. I hated that. I freaking, I hated that I had a

freaking radio in my head. Well, I came from Canada where we're spreading them out and slinging it all over the place. I'm calling my own plays, having a blast too. The second a play ends, you got a radio on your helmet and your offensive coordinator's talking to you. All right, Dougie, we're looking to, it's third and seven. We got, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever. Play, check this, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Alert, be alert for the weak side blitz. If they bring too weak, we're hot.

Whatever, shut the hell up. I got it, right? I was at practice on Wednesday. I know what we're looking for, right? So you stop thinking, not that you stop thinking, but I went from, in Canada, call my own place, from, hey, how was he playing you on the backside? Hey, no, he's inside technique. We got the corner route on him. Let's go, okay, we'll go, let's go rebel right. We got to, let's go smash

route on the backside. You guys, we'll go 371 on the front side, blah, blah, blah. And kind of thinking, thinking the play through and knowing where I guys will go 371 on the front side, blah, blah, blah. And kind of thinking the play through and knowing where I wanted to put people to shut the hell up and listen. And I hated the radio and the helmet. I liked thinking on my toes. I had to be alert for down and distance and situation. And what we did in Canada,

back in as early as like 90 92 empty sets calling quarterback runs out of empty if they're if they're too high safeties there we got five guys blocking four in the box and i'm off and running running trap or quarterback counter whatever and all that rpo stuff that started with dam Damon Allen. Marcus Allen's younger brother was in Edmonton. And we ran all that run game out of gun. And Damon was eyeing that backside end and pulling the ball and running naked off it if he closed down.

I'm like, hey, I can do that. Then I did it and I get five, seven yards and the corner would come, someone would come off on the slot, whatever, make the tackle. I'm like, screw that. You run a fade and you run an out. If he comes off, I'm throwing you the ball.

And we started doing this stuff. Chip Kelly came up to Toronto. He was at UNH at the time. He came up to Toronto and watched all our film and was asking questions about this and the other thing. And then he goes to UNH and just starts lighting it up. He turned it into Zone Read. And then he went to Oregon and it all became the Zone Reed stuff.

But we were – because in Canada, we didn't have – we didn't have rains on us. You know, I'd say, hey, what do you want to run, Julian? What do you want to – just give me an option route. I'll crush them. Just give me – okay, you do that. You clear them out on the outside. You guys – In huddle, you're –

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's like – I mean, you had your plays, but we'd go to, we could talk because I was calling the play. You were also, you're the Tom Brady of Canada football. So, like, you know, it's a little different where, you know, if you're the flutes in Canada. Now, do you think that that play style a little bit more

of like kind of like the fluty magic to run it around making plays just you know use your soul instead of using your brain worked really well for you in canada it worked in canada and and i yes you could get the cfl game you could get away with being an athlete i'd say i was thinking about this if jules had gone to the CFL as a quarterback, he would have stayed a quarterback. It just would have been on. BC Lions. You know?

Still got a contract to this day. Yeah. They got your rights. They took my rights. Yeah. I bet he would have gone up as a quarterback because you could, as a quarterback in that league, get away with being an athlete and taking off and scrambling

and be competitive. Why? The difference was because the field was wider. it was wider there was more space it was like a joke if you wanted to scramble it was a joke it's like okay it's on i remember the first first preseason game we had slants or something and i held it and i moved to the right went outside and kind of turned the corner i'm like holy mackerel i got 12 more yards you know you kind of have a muscle memory on what it took to turn the corner and'm like holy mackerel i got 12 more yards you know you you kind of have a muscle memory on what it took to turn the corner and stay in bounds and i got all kinds of space

out there so that part of it lent to my abilities but also i was still a pocket passer right i still did the mental part of the game and could pick things apart and all that and then when things broke down take off well you know and we'll get into the game but we were watching this game and flutes is five nine and three quarters and three quarters and three quarters not anymore though i i gotta be i'm probably under five nine now honestly i haven't measured everyone always says that and i always i always like when people call me shorter because it's it's more impressive yes you know what i mean you know it becomes a thing yes no doubt i'm five eight okay but regardless but you watch that game huh dustin pedro is five two by now laser show shout out pd love you pd but you watch this game and when you have a shorter quarterback,

I was a shorter quarterback, the in-breaking route, like passing in the intermediate, it was the hardest thing. But if you watch this, I mean, I think you started with 13 for 13 or 12 for 12. And all the plays, you're stepping up in the pocket, and you're hitting guys on 20-yard in-cuts. You're hitting like you had that vision, was it's you're a pocket passer i i had tom coughlin as an offensive coordinator yeah at boston college for my first three years he built my discipline taught me to

read coverage and so what i did make blind throws but i knew where the defenders were yeah right i find the defender you find that little window and then boom in the gap you know timing wise here he comes bang um that was you always and you brought up in routes and early in the game we hit a couple with Gerard coming in on third downs and they played a three deep zone but the corner locked on with Gerard and chased him chased his ass all the way in and after our first third down conversion I go to Gerard I'm his ass all the way in. And after our first third down conversion, I go to Gerard. I'm like, is that the corner on your ass? He goes, yeah, he chased me.

I go, that was zone coverage. I go, hey, next time we call that, put your foot in the ground and run a corner route. And it was a Pocono. I saw that. Yeah. Later in the game, two huge third downs in the fourth quarter, I think. Gerard put his foot in the ground, ran the corner route.

Good route. Oh, my God. It's just like he started in. The guy was chasing. Boom. Took off. And it's amazing to me to think that I was so relaxed at that time that I saw it.

You know, that you see, you know, it's 3D zone. You're thinking, I got the post in comedy. I'm going to go in down to the underneath route, right? that way i saw that guy chasing him gerard saw him chasing i waited boom he went through the corner route meg that's what they call a meg where they they locked the guy on them it's crazy did you ever consider changing positions when you when you left college or did people ask you to change positions because you're ridiculous athlete not when i left college but when i came to bc there were four upperclassmen ahead of me yeah gerard was my roommate he's already seeing play in time as a receiver on

run situations special teams he's on the field i'm not really on the field yeah i my first plays to bc were punt return i i would uh opening day against a and m i'm back there fielding punts um you like that but it was like i was very close to going and saying hey move into receiver because i knew i thought i was a better athlete than some of the guys that were on the field i'm like i know i can be on the field. I'm not on the field now. And I was a step away from asking at BC to move to, because they were upper. Now, none of the guys actually, actually Matt Ryan's uncle,

Sean Lockery was the original starting quarterback. He tore tendon in his thumb. And then the other two guys got a chance to play. Didn't play well. I finally got into the game and at Penn state and lit it up and was off and running. Ain't nobody ever want to put flute in, but when you put flute in, you're always going to win. Right, baby. That's how it goes, baby.

We'll be right back after this quick break. History is filled with strange, unusual, and unexpected stories. Stories about people who have accomplished extraordinary things. Pets that have gone above and beyond, events that have defied explanation. And I'd like to tell you about them. I'm Aaron Manke, and for the past six years,

I've been sharing the most curious tales in history with millions of listeners around the world on my hit podcast, Cabinet of Curiosities. With well over 120 million downloads to date, listeners have been fascinated by such tales as The Surprising Country That Invented the Croissant, The Stowaway-Turned-Hero Who Helped Capture a Nazi Spy, and The Wrestling Champ Who Went On to Win the White House. And now, finally, nearly 200 of these amazing stories from the podcast have been gathered into one book. Curious to know more? Pre-order Cabinet of Curiosities, available November 12th, wherever books and audiobooks are sold. Learn more over at GrimAndMild.com slash curiosities.

Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently hit the number one science podcast in America. I'm a neuroscientist at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. We're looking at a whole new series of episodes this season to understand why and how our lives look the way they do. Why does your memory drift so much? Why is it so hard to keep a secret? When should you not trust your intuition? Why do brains so easily fall for magic tricks? And why do they love conspiracy theories?

I'm hitting these questions and hundreds more because the more we know about what's running under the hood, the better we can steer our lives. Join me weekly to explore the relationship between your brain and your life by digging into unexpected questions. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wake up with football every morning and listen to my new podcast, NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal.

Five days a week, you'll get all the latest news, previews, recaps, and analysis delivered straight to your podcast feed by the time you get your coffee. No dumb hot takes here, just smart hot takes. We'll talk every single game, every single week, but I can't do it alone, so I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. That's Patrick Claiborne, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook, Jordan Rodrigue from The Athletic, and of course, Colleen Wolfe. This is their window right now. This is their Super Bowl

window. Why would they trade him away? Because he would be a pivotal part of them winning that Super Bowl. I don't know why, Colleen. Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and

funnier than your friends. And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Now, let's go back in time. We have a segment where we go back in time towards the era of the game. What is that?

Is that Wayne's World? Wayne's World. Wayne's World? Oh, my God. Yeah. So let's go around November 23, 1984. Number one movie, Supergirl. Oh, my God.

No idea. I didn't watch it. I haven't heard of it. It was a flop? Flop. I haven't heard of it. No. I don't know.

$35 million budget only made 14 mil. This was Faye Dunaway. I never heard of it. No. I don't know. $35 million budget, only made 14 mil. This was Faye Dunaway. But it was the movie. It was number one that weekend? Yeah. It was. Thanksgiving weekend is a tough movie weekend. Tough movie weekend, yeah.

Number one song, Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go. George Michael, Wham. We know that one. Yeah. Gerard Lump. Gerard Lump. Gerard Lump. Gerardard Wham guy. He was a yes. I was like Van

Halen and shoot Motley Crue, whatever. Gerard loved Wham. Jon Bon Jovi? Oh, I'm big Jon. Jon, I've been to more Bon Jovi concerts than Jon has been. You know what? I saw him yesterday. I saw him yesterday

and we've developed... He's such a good looking dude. Yeah. Like the hair is still going. He's the silver fox now. Still got it. The hair. You can see that smile

from a mile. Hanging out in the Hamptons living life. So handsome. Wes Craven's Nightmare on Elm Street premieres. I saw it.

It was a classic. It was a classic. It was a classic. It was one of those, you know. That's Freddy Krueger. That's Freddy Krueger. Yeah. The Terminator, Karate Kid, Ghostbusters. The original Karate Kid.

The original. The original Ghostbusters. Wax on, wax off. Wax on. Wax on. Wax off. Mr. Miyagi. Miyagi.

By the way. Hey, sweep the leg. Sweep the leg. Sweep the leg. I have Alex Guerrero from the first time I ever met him. He's in my phone as Alex Miyagi because he was like that weird, you know what I mean, with all his little techniques and shit. That's what I used to call him, Alex Miyagi. Purple Rain.

Purple Rain. Man, Karate Kid, that was such a crazy crazy cultural thought what was life like for you in 1984 oh my gosh 1984 my senior year college um i was i didn't i was football football football le Leonard Skinner. I've always been Skinner. Skinner nut. Skinner nut. Back in 84, I was listening to a lot of Van Halen. Nice. In fact, there's a highlight reel from our senior year,

and we're at the Cotton Bowl in the locker room, and I'm blaring Van Halen stuff. Going to California or something. But I was just a naive kid, shy. I didn't party. I didn't go out. I didn't do squat. I was just, I was a naive kid, shy. I didn't party. I didn't go out. I didn't do squat. I was just football.

Then I signed with Trump and the USFL and all that at the end of my senior year. But I was a, once football season was over, I was a hoops junkie, lived in the Rackplex playing basketball. Don't you still play hoops? I still, I tried. I played on the cruise ship a couple of weeks ago with old guys. It's like, we took it to the young, we lost the champion. There was a three-on-three tournament.

So I'm 61. I got a 57-year-old and another 60-year-old on my team. And we're playing like young college kids. And we made it to the finals. Let's go. We made it to the finals. And then they realized to stop shooting like i said guys back off we're on a cruise ship right the ship's moving the wind's

blowing back off these kids are too stupid to do anything but shoot they'll shoot the ball and we you know people and we just you know go into get some layups and beat them but then finally the kids smarten up in the championship they just just went inside and put it up until they, yeah. But we lost that. Luce, what's your b-ball game like? I was a point guard. I was a non-shoot. Now I'm a shoot.

Now I shoot the ball well. Once a three-point line. Three-point line wasn't in play when I was in high school and college. That's right. So it was like, if you took an outside shot, you were stupid. It's like, don't do that. It's working until we get, there's no shot clock and there's no three-pointer. Wait until we get a good shot.

I was a penetrate and dish guy and all that and had fun. In fact, at BC, I played my four years of football. I didn't redshirt. I signed my contract, left in the spring, came back the following fall to finish up. And Michael Adams was a starter. Mike had left to the NBA and Gary Williams, the head coach, Gary came and asked me to play for the team

because I used to play pickup with the team all the time. There's a picture of me somewhere, AP, of me walking the ball at the court. We were working out. Bill Walton had just signed with the Celtics. A bunch of Celtics guys were at BC and we're all playing pickup and I'm walking up the floor with Bill Walton next to me.

I had asked Trump permission to play with uh bc he's like knock yourself out do whatever and then he saw that picture he's like i can't let you do it you get hurt i'm out a lot of money so i ended up not doing it damn that rocks we're a big pro bill walton podcast so hearing that was yeah that was a highlight of our day r.i.I.P., man. R.I.P. That was sad these last weeks. I absolutely wish, man. You know, with Walton, I grew up in the Bay Area, so I loved the Pac-12. And then I moved out here, and there was nothing like – College sports here.

No, it was nothing like a Tuesday night at 11 o'clock, 10 o'clock at night here, and you hear Bill Walton having a mushroom story. When he's supposed to be talking about goddamn basketball, and he's talking about the goddamn Grateful Dead. Like, he could fill the air. Nothing like it, man. Never will be again either.

In the sports world in 1984, national champions were BYU. That bothered all of us. BYU went undefeated because they didn't play anybody. And then they played Michigan, who had like a 6-5 record. They played Michigan in the bowl game out in San Diego. And they claim a national championship. That bothered all of us. I'd love a, you know, there's Catholics versus convicts.

I'd love Catholics versus Mormons. Oh. That's some religious warfare. Was this Jim McMahon? No. When was Ty Detmer doing his thing? Might have been Ty. Ty Detmer.

Oh, this was Robbie Bosco, I believe. Bosco. Very, very good. Who won the Heisman in 1984? Joey Bag of Donuts. Yeah, right. Joey finished second. How the hell? Doug Flew,

he wins the Heisman 1984. How was that? That was nuts. That was my junior year, I actually finished third. It was Mike Rozier, Steve Young, and then me. And so I was the frontrunner going into my senior year, and we had a big win early in the year against Alabama at Alabama. I was 2-0

against Bama, by the way. Just putting that out there. See you, Saban. Roll Tide. I was the frontrunner early in the year against alabama at alabama i was 2-0 against bama by the way just putting that out there see you save it roll time um i was the front runner most of the year the the hail mary happens and it's like now i'm thinking this is something was so out of the question to me of having in the realm of possibilities of winning the heisman it became honestly what if i don't win it now i have to have have that prepared. How do I answer questions about not winning it? The day of the Heisman, though, we played Holy Cross that day. It was our last regular season game. I go from there, did a quick press conference, go in a van with the family and everybody to a local airport.

BC alum had a private jet waiting. We take off, go to Teterboro inra in jersey we land put my wife and i who my girlfriend at the time fiance um we take a helicopter ride over to the city my parents everybody got in limos and head over to the city helicopter ride land at the heliport across the street from downtown athletic club get out of the helicopter well first of all we're going over we had a little extra time and i go any chance we can do like a tour of the city of the helicopter. Well, first of all, we're going over. We had a little extra time. And I go, any chance we can do like a tour of the city? And the helicopter guy, you know, he asked permission.

Hey, knock yourself out. Yeah, Doug flew to you. It's his day. Go. So we do a little lap around. This is my 20, you know, we're 21, 22 years old, my wife and I. In a helicopter. In a helicopter.

Going to the Heisman Trophy. Heisman Trophy. Cruising around New York City. We land across the street. Now, I'm a kid out of that. We had no money, nothing. I'd never done anything like this. So they have a limo to drive us literally across the street, get out of the car, go up. They had a room waiting. They had food and stuff. I had about 20 minutes to kill. And my wife looks at me and goes, you think they do this for everybody? You had to have won. There's no way they do this.

They had no way, you know, because you don't know until they announce it. And that was just all very surreal. It was just a cool experience. And what's really cool now is go back every year and be around that room with the guys and the storytelling that goes on. There's a hospitality suite every weekend.

And, you know, it's just the storytelling and the guys that have been together for so many years. And the sad part is every year, somebody passes away. And they used to have the dais set up as, and they still do, but by age. And at the end, they put a helmet to represent anyone that had passed since.

And it's like, once I get to the other side of this table, I'm not going anymore. It's like, no, I'm still left in the podium. I'm still on this side of the podium. Once I'm on that side, forget it. I'm not going anymore. But you know what? Next year for the Heisman, we're getting an addition.

We're getting Reggie Bush back. Oh, Reggie coming back. So Reggie's younger than me. That's going to bump me to the other side. That's going to bump me to the other side. Right there, Reggie. back oh reggie coming back so is reggie reggie's younger than me that's gonna bump you to the other side that's gonna bump you to the other side right there take that heisman back take it back i'm done no i'm not going doug how do you go back to campus after that it was really like you fly to heisman okay that night's the the tv event and then you're there for a couple days doing luncheons whatever blah blah blah and they wear you out like i was worn out for three days doing nonsense so what i did was i wanted

to be back on campus i i flew back that night and flew back to new york like took a day before i went back to new york because it was such a whirlwind. I hated all that stuff. And that, it was really cool because one of the women that worked for NBC when I was doing broadcasting came up and she was at BC around the time I was at school. She was on campus. She said, and you don't know this stuff goes on. You don't know how people perceive you

and what their attitude about you is at all. It was a really cool story of how everybody got together in their common areas to watch the presentation show and the announcement and how you could have heard a pin drop on campus. And then when the announcement day, the place exploded, everybody's out partying and throwing, you know, vandalizing probably. But yeah, and it's just cool stories to hear because you weren't a part of that. You didn't know that was going on so you i heard you wanted to be back on campus what's like the food spot you went to and what's what the food

spot did you go to pinos i went to pinos i still go to pinos anytime i'm near cleveland circle or bc i i swim by pinos they used to hand roll their own pepperoni it was awesome they don't do that anymore like i was very disappointed i talked to i was like you got to go back to the old pepperoni they say that's uh isn't that the sister restaurant of joe's in new york i'm not sure i i don't know well one of our partners he always talks we go to pinot's all the time get the cheese steak there you get to you get the slice of pizza i always love to hear like the college spot yes that you like to eat at. That for me was Pino's. I'd always hit Pino's. There was a place called Fantastic Food Factory

that was down on the backside of, it wasn't Beacon, it was on Tom. It was the 24-hour food. You could go there any time of the night, morning, whatever, and everybody always, it was junk. It was horrible, But it was open. Middle of the night. Fantastic four. All right, let's jump into this.

Let's start bringing this... One thing before we wrap up in 1984, just because me too, 49ers won the Super Bowl, Dan Marino won MVP, Larry Bird won MVP, and it was Michael Jordan and Mario Lemieux's rookie season.

What a year in sports. What a year. Oh, I got Jordan. What do you got? First of all, Bird was my generation. That was Larry. I still watch Larry Bird highlights on my phone. Always, always, always.

Because it was, I'm old. I can't move anymore. So if I play basketball, I better be smart. And it's like the stuff he did was so, like, I loved when he'd have his back to the guy, like trying to back him in. He'd reach around the guy with a two-handed pass and go like that, pull up with the guy,

turn his head, and he'd just sit there. Stuff that takes no athleticism, right? It was just smart. The smart, he's like, he played kind of like Luka. He just. Because Luka's like that, or Joker, you know, these guys, they're like the savvy dude at the ymca when you're watching them like the tall good dude at the ymca that just playing with all young guys and still just roping a dope well larry didn't get

enough credit for being as athletic as he was when he was young because we all picture him later when his feet were bothering me he's shooting. But he did whatever the situation called for. And it was just a reaction to whatever was going on in front of him. Passed through Kareem's legs, just behind the back. All the stuff that he just reacted to, whatever the situation was in front of him. He was great. I was watching the one the other day where he had the Atlanta bench

literally falling over as he's torching. Oh, yeah, yeah. The one in New Orleans. They play that random game in new orleans 60 something points he's falling out of bounds three and the guy in his face and it goes in and the guys on the atlanta bench are just cracking up on each other like you got to be kidding what about that there was the one game where some guy talked to him and so he he played like the whole second half and only shot with his left hand he well he went into a game saying i'm gonna just play this game left hand he scored 18 or 20 of his points left handed that night yeah yeah it's just stupid stuff larry we were my wife and i were first row balcony of the old garden for the game where bird steals the ball and the inbounds pass

from isaiah and he were there hits dj going to the hoop. Yeah, we were. That's a Boston folklore. Of course, Flutes was there. I mean, there's a flood. You're going to see Flutes. There's a championship game. You're going to see Flutes. It was a fun time.

It was a fun run with their championships and always watching the Red Sox. It's's unbelievable. You guys, you know, we're just so spoiled. Boston, so spoiled. Best sports town in the world. It is. But my Jordan story was, it was during the NFL strike

and the Bulls were starting to practice. And we used to go play pickup ball with the Bulls. Scotty Pippen, Jordan. I used to cover Siddell Threat. He played with LA, and he was in Chicago at the time because he was the only guy that I could almost, you know, he was only four or five inches taller than me. And that was a cool time.

When Jordan would show up, like the days that Jordan wasn't there, I handled the ball, covered my guy, had a hoop or two, you know, it was comfortable. When Jordan was there, the intensity went through the roof and I was just like, get the ball to somebody, you know, get ready to get it out of your hand. It was, I remember walking through the training room and Jordan's getting taped. And I started by, he goes, oh, Doug, your brother had, is that that's your brother plays for bc yeah oh yeah he got a great game against syracuse my brother broke his hand and

had to cast on one hayes receiver yeah and he had a couple of touchdowns a couple one-handed catches all that and jordan saw it and he's like mentioned it i thought that was the coolest thing ever a little different from when the first time i met him. Mike probably won a lot of money on that game. So we've already talked about it. The story's out there, but the first time I met him, we were in the Super Bowl, 14, and it's him and Jeter. And I'm out to dinner. I'm taking my folks out to dinner before the Super Bowl.

And I'm leaving, and I see Derek Jeter and Michael Jordan and I'm like sitting there like, oh my God, this is our show. I got to go say hi to him. You know what I mean? Jeter, most charming dude ever. Jordan didn't say a word until I was about to leave. He goes, hey kid, I got a lot of money on you. Don't fuck it up.

I mean, just Mike. I love him. Oh my God. I love him. Oh, my gosh. I wouldn't want it any other way. Let's talk about this Miami Hurricanes team. Let's run through the Hurricanes. Oh, these guys, they were sick. We had no business being on that field.

We had no business. If you were to watch that game, their defense, you were carving them up. They played zone. It's like, are you kidding me? Three deep. Thank you. penn state was a dream country penn state played the like they dropped the spots you know it was it was the the the difference in that game was we sacked bernie i think twice and picked them off twice

and that was the only difference in the game you know we went up and down but they like you couldn't tackle eddie brown you couldn't tackle well alonzo highsmith was hurt a guy named um oh my god how am i drawing a blank on he had five touchdowns that day running back but he had the day of his life that was melvin bratton melvin bratton yep we couldn't tackle these guys they were like a lead eddie brown willie sm, Alonzo, Bernie, a quarterback, uh, defensively, you know, they were just stud athletes and we were my senior class. There was a coaching change at BC. We were a bunch of Ivy league kids.

We were going to go to Ivy league schools. Gerard was going to go to the Naval Academy and all that. There was a coaching change at BC and they were just scrambling and signing guys. We didn't belong on the field with them. This is Jimmy Johnson's first year, too. Jimmy Johnson's first year. Because, yeah, I always, in my mind, looking back on this game, it always feels like the full David Goliath,

but this was number 10 and number 12 ranked teams at the time, which is pretty crazy. So it wasn't that David Goliath. They were coming off a national championship the year before. We were, it's why you play the game. It's like the Boise State thing against Oklahoma. I remember all the pundits that I was there. Oh, yeah, they won the game, but they're not as good as.

It's about winning the game, right? It's about making plays, doing what you have to to win. We finessed people. Actually, I say that. We ran the ball great. We had, Boston College has always had good offensive linemen that end up going nfl cope yeah it was a bc guy so uh actually in the cotton bowl we ran we rushed the ball for well

over 200 yards and all that so we we could we had troy strafford was our tailback that played nine years and three of our receivers played in the nfl two tight ends four or five linemen bill romanowski was on defense romanowski uh you know we we had we had player we we had the guys that developed into players i loved romanowski in jj stokes face oh my god what do you it's like that dude was crazy kelvin martin was the only real athlete on the field he was he was he was an nfl talent athlete he weighed 160 pounds he was like 153 when he came in he's weighed 153 pounds when he came in as a freshman but he was amazing you guys are averaging 33 almost 34 points a game oh we it was at a time he's been trophy winner of course they are that's right well it was at a time when we could we threw the ball and not a lot of

college teams were good or efficient at throwing the ball by we you was doing it we were doing it iowa had a guy uh long chuck long who who could throw the ball and you know passing offense you had that that was the equalizer with teams like playing alabama and playing whoever we played miami we could throw the ball at him either the lines it's tough you get you can't you can could throw the ball at them. The lines, it's tough. You can't run the ball against those big boys. Steve Trappillo was a first-round draft choice offensive line for us. Mark McDonald played in the NFL. He first and second.

Twombly, he played with Denver. You go down the list, and all these guys, well, Gerard was drafted but had a bad knee injury. My brother Darren played in the NFL for three years and a bunch of Canada uh Kenny Bell, Steve Strahan, and Troy Strafford all three running backs had careers in the NFL it's just ridiculous how would you sum up this 1984 Boston College team we were the class that nobody wanted so it was overachievers. It was all guys. And you guys talked about it on stage. You don't want to let your teammate down, trust thing and all that. That's who we were. And I

always say at a college level, you can get away with that. At the NFL level, you need a Randy Moss. You need a couple of those guys. But at the college college level we didn't know we weren't supposed to beat Alabama we didn't know we were supposed we weren't supposed to be Clemson and Miami and we weren't supposed to be on the field with those guys you know what when I went to Kent State I was playing quarterback out there I would get so mad when we would go and play like we played Ohio State and a lot of these kids, they grew up in Ohio. So we lost the game before it even started. Because they were intimidated.

Like, oh, they made it such a thing. But to hear that your team. We didn't know better. You didn't care. We were naive. We were. Steve Sterhan, who wound up playing in the NFL for a while with the Raiders. Steve, we go to Clemson to play Clemson.

Clemson was a defending national champion. They told Coach Bick, don't have your team on the field when they touch the rock and come down. It's very intimidating, a sea of orange and all that. Bick's like, if it's that cool, I want to see it. And that's who we show up. Sterhan's like grabbing bags of grass, like baggies, and saying, I played at Clemson and put that on the shelf. We show up, it's your hands like grabbing bags of grass, like baggies and putting the grass,

saying I played at Clemson and put that on the shelf. That type of stuff. Then we play. We didn't know we weren't supposed to be on the field with guys like the Fridge and all these first round draft choice guys. How was it having Coughlin as a QB coach? It was, and I go to his golf. You already referenced him.

Yeah, I go to his golf tournament every year, and he and I still talk about it. Are you taking the eugenics when you're there? Because I see you in the commercial. Eugenics, eugenics, total T. Is that Jeff Loody? I was Tom Brady during the years that I had Tom Coughlin. I was the most disciplined I'd ever been.

I got my best grades. I was a Rhodes Scholar candidate. I was a finalist for a Rhodes Scholar. I got more out of myself because of his discipline in me. And he taught me more football than any other football coach. Then on game day, I had Coach Bick. So I was relaxed and went out and just balled and played. But to this day, we ran a whirlybird option,

like trap option, come down the line. I can still do the footwork because he ingrained it into my head five minutes every day doing that stupid footwork. And he was meticulous, and he was what I needed as a college kid. Coughlin was the best thing that ever happened to me and gave me the chance to do what I did.

I almost signed with him in 13. I was a free agent. Where was he, Giants? He was with the Giants. He was the head coach of the Giants. And I sat in his office with his little red cheeks. You guys got some red cheeks. Well, when I signed with you guys in 05,

I almost signed with the Gi yeah to go with coughlin because coughlin was a head coach and the office coordinator was john huffnagle who was my coordinator in calgary but he you could just tell that you know that him and bill came from that same kind of tree from the parcel thing you could just tell he was a tough dude and he ran his ship tight, tight, very tight. All my classes had to be in the morning done before noon, go grab lunch. I'll meet you here at one o'clock. You're here. No regular meetings didn't start till whenever, but I always met with him first. Um, and you, you know, it was that you better be early and the book is open. You're ready to take notes, feet flat on the floor. No, no elbows on the table,

all that stuff, no hats in the meeting room, just regiment. And he built discipline in me. Jeez. What do you think about the Billy O'Brien era of these? I saw Billy last night. I'm excited for him. I don't know why the hell anybody would take a college coaching job anymore. It's all just a game changer. Everything's different. You're going to have these kids and develop them. You got a spring to develop these kids because they're going to play in the fall and then they're going to leave you next year. I love BC. I love the football. I'd love to see them. There's no reason why they can't be competitive football-wise in the ACC. Basketball is another question, but

I just think we should be in the mix. You know, there's Clemson, maybe Florida State talent-wise, and then everybody else. And we should be at the top of everybody else and giving them a run for their money. I mean, you've got to recruit your own goddamn players. Yeah, that's what I mean. Every year.

Every year. That's free agency every year. High school, transfer portal, your own team. I just talked about all these guys, and I could tell you all kinds. The bond that I had with my BC guys, four years together, and we still see each other. We're in text change and email. These kids aren't going to have that.

They're going to a school about the money, not about the school, not about the coach, about the money. They play for a year, and if they're not the guy, if they're not doing what they hope they could do, they're gone. Then if they do what they hope they could do, they're still looking for more money out of someone else. So that's all out the window. You know, I was thinking about it.

I went to Kent State my first year. We balled out. We had a historic year for the school. If it was this time i would have went to oregon right after i mean why wouldn't you why wouldn't you well that's how you get a lot more money you're gonna get to play in the west cup you know what i mean well like kent state boston college wake forest those types of schools first off don't put us in that category. We're a step or two below, but I appreciate it. The point is that those type of schools take a risk on a guy that they see talent in

and develop them. Maybe by their junior, senior year, they're studs. But maybe their sophomore year, they help them. Junior year, they're playing. But if you get to that point, they leave. Once you develop them, they're leaving now. So there's just no way to get it done ridiculous jack why don't you give us the game lead up let's get into this lead up of this

game as doug mentioned earlier oh this was a day after thanksgiving day day game that prime 230 spot brent musburger on the call this is vintage college football this is good stuff miami entered eight and three as we said earlier ranked number 12 b. BC, 7-2, 10th ranked team. BC had already accepted the Cotton Bowl invitation. So, as Doug said earlier, this was playing for pride. And don't forget, they had Holy Cross the next week, too. So, can't look past the Crusaders, baby. Look at you.

And it was Miami, six-point favorite in this one. We're talking betting lines. Shout out Michael Jordan. And Miami is coming off a crazy loss to Maryland the week before. They're up 31-0 at halftime. Frank Reich, we know Frank Reich. These guys. This guy just always, they beat him.

Beat him. So they're kind of reeling, probably pissed. Really wanting to get a dove out there. Picture this. Okay, Miami, top 12 team. Right. Up 31-0, wind up losing to Maryland. Insane.

Insane. Play us, lose on the Hail Mary at the end of the game. Go to their bowl game and play Ohio State, who kicks a 55-yard, Ohio State, I believe it was Ohio State, 55-yard field goal in the last play of the game to beat them. Their last three games. What? Jimmy Johnson's like, I'm done i quit oh my god oh jimmy

just went and got better players oh my god yeah what a crazy way to end the season my god uh that's nuts but getting into this game it was a windy misty foggy day down at the old Orange Bowl. Started out, it was a track meet from the jump. From the jump. 14-0 BC gets up. Then Miami storms back, ties it up, 14-14. Doug, at what point were you just like, oh, shit, just give us the ball back every time?

Well, it felt like a practice. Like you were just completing passes, dropping back and throwing. And in the third quarter, we actually punted. And we had to kick a practice. Like you were just completing passes, dropping back and throwing. And in the third quarter, we actually punted. And we had to kick a field. We punted once and we kicked a field goal. And I thought that's where we- Game over.

Game over. And like I said, the difference was we had a pick, at least one. Bill Romanowski picked them off over the middle. And it was a stop. And that got us back into that they score, we score thing,

and we got back into that rhythm. But I went over to Coach Bick. They had third and 21. They had a penalty with three and a half minutes to go. They had a penalty, and we're on their own five-yard line-ish. And Bernie, we almost sacked him for safety. He gets out, he dumps it to the back. He gets 20 yards, and then on fourth and short,

they get the first down. There's still a minute and a half. There's still two minutes on the clock. I go to Coach Bear. I go, let him score. Just let him fucking score so we can get the ball back with enough time. Yeah.

And they milked the clock, walked it down, and scored with 28 seconds. It's like, yeah, right, 28 seconds. What are we going to do with that? And then we get down to that play that we all know. Yeah. Down to the Miami 48. When we got the ball, my mentality was,

we've got three or four plays here. Let's get the ball to midfield. Just make sure we get to midfield. We'll take a couple shots. We had two timeouts. College football, the clock stops after first down. That's right. So we get a first down on the first one on a seam route.

We get a first down on the second one out of bounds. And I'm like, we're already across midfield. We still got two timeouts. So there was one play that was an incompletion. I never used the timeouts. We still had two in our pocket. Are you calling timeouts? You're dropping them?

Yeah. That's another thing. We call them on the field. But we were really good at two-minute in college. Colleges, they waste more time looking to the sideline, getting the play and all that. I mean, I was just calling my own plays. So we get it.

We line up in a hurry. I get the play called. I'm ready to snap the ball before the official. And then on the whistle, boom, he snaps the ball. We didn't waste time. Maybe we lost a second and a half. But we were good at not wasting time on our two-minute and didn't have to use the timeouts.

So you didn't have to use the timeouts, and it goes into the last play. Now, what's your mindset? Can you take us beat for beat with that? My mindset is I was hoping to get a little closer. Didn't happen in completion. Six seconds, okay, it's time for Hail Mary. I'm getting in the huddle to call the play,

and they're running a freshman on the field with the play. Like, I got to freaking listen to this. It's like Sean Dombrowski, freshman. Dumbo was his nickname. They want him on the field because he can jump. It's not going to be. It's like, you're a freshman. Sit down.

I'm waving him off the field because I want Troy Stratford. He was a fifth-year senior. I wanted Troy on the field for the play and him be one of the receivers. He was a running back, but I wanted him in the mix. Little did I know Troy had a pulled hamstring. He never gets down the field on the play. So Troy starts to jog off the field. I'm yelling at Troy to get his ass back here and Dumbo off the field.

So the freshman, he's like, I'm listening to Doug and I'm off the field. Troy comes back to the huddle. The bench sends Sean back. I'm like, no, sit down. So we get the play called. We go to the line of scrimmage and there's an inadvertent whistle and a flag. And the defenders were on Gerard and on Troy, leaving Calvin Martin, the outside receiver, to be the free runner to get down there first. And after the inadvertent whistle, we line up again. Now I tell the tight end, go down the backside. And my philosophy is buy as much time as possible, make it a jump ball. But back then, everybody dropped back, throw it. The receivers are still trying to get there. You got to buy time to get your guys down there. So last second, the defender decides, you know what? This is the

guy with speed. I i'm gonna go jam him it walks off gerard goes to the outside defender allowing gerard to be the first guy now gerard they did a nice hole on the replay he looks like he's running a 5 4 40 i mean we're in a wet he's just chugging down the field with his head down and And when I rolled right, they all, the defenders sat flat and let Jordan go right by him. He's deeper than the deepest and turning around and seeing the ball thrown. But then when I pulled up, it kind of like a javelin, you know, on the move through it and got it there. I was going to look backside, but a linebacker was running at me. So I didn't have time to look backside. I get outside. I just let it launch to an area. I see the two defenders go up, and everybody just fall to the ground,

and there's a half-second delay, and I see an official's arms. I'm like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. I start laughing my ass off and start running towards the pile, and I never got down there. There's a great picture of Steve Trapillo with me in his arms. I guess I jumped into his arms. Yeah, you jumped up, and we all saw your little hairy hair. Yeah, hairy hair, bubs.

Yeah, I'm a great... And then there's a better picture that I love of me in my brother's arms from the back of him with Flutio in his jersey and me with my arm in the air, too. That was a cool pic. Man. And then everything settled down

starting towards the locker room. I didn't know who caught it. I assumed Gerard caught it. I didn't know who caught it. I ran into our strong safety, Dave Pereira. I said, who caught the ball? He said, Gerard caught it. Now, was there a roommate chemistry? Oh, no doubt.

That's why Randy was talking about putting his locker next to Tom. Gerard and I had finished each other's sentences. Yeah. Four years together roommates the whole time all that kind of stuff and talking at lunch talking it that's where you build the rapport and you understand what the other guy's thinking yeah you know that and it's not like you intentionally you're having lunch together to talk about football you just talk about at dinner you know talk about practice yeah oh. Yeah, that was a cool route.

I like, you know, we should do this, we should do that. What about this? Subconsciously. Yeah. When you know each other, I mean. There's a trust that built. You knew in those situations who to lean on. And Gerard was always that guy in college.

Eric Moulds was that guy for me in Buffalo. Tim Dwight, who's a good friend. Tim was that guy for me in San Diego. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I got. Boy, he could run. He just got his hip replaced, too.

Did he? He's running again, man. He's so fired up. Oh, he's jacked. He's got a little bit of, looks like he might have a belly. It's all abs. He's like, he could be a boxer.

He was lightning. Yep. Now, how does it feel to have probably the most iconic play in college football history? You know what I say? I say most of us are forgotten. Even if you win the Heisman or whatever, people forget. Never.

Keep going. At least I have a play people remember. And it comes up all the time. And they all have their memory of, oh, we turned the TV off and went home and found out on the news. Back when you didn't have your phone, you had to wait till the 11 o'clock news

to see the highlight, right? So many stories about where they were. NFL guys were, it was a Friday afternoon, and all the NFL guys that I ran into later said they were in the locker rooms after practice watching the end of the game. Yeah. And you know, so you get all the stories of where everybody is, what they did. I know where I was and you've got a hell of a lot more. I didn't know. We didn't realize it was that big a deal. We was a big deal to us. We just won a big game.

We land. Now, Boston, we talked about it. Boston is not a college sports town. It's pro sport. It's pro sport, baby. We landed Logan Airport, and there's like 10,000 people. And they had the – Gerard and I, they pulled aside. We go into – like everybody's going to the team bus,

and they shoved us into a cruiser and get the hell out of there and it was like Beatles stuff it was like that was that didn't happen in Boston no not college not for college but I mean when you guys go out and have probably the most impossible play literally we're still this is 35 years after and we're still talking about this play i mean that's so cool that's such an insane yeah you have all those moments in your head of big plays plays that helped you win the super bowl the play that was a pivotal play and we all know those plays for ourselves game to game but this is one that that everybody saw and everybody remembered so that's it's a pretty cool thing to have. What's that mean to you, though?

That's got to be one of your – is this your proudest moment? You know, I don't know. Or was it the Grey Cups? I always go to the – we won our first – my first championship, my first ring was a Grey Cup. I was playing in Calgary, and we had to go 88 yards with a minute on the clock, no timeouts, into a 35-mile-an-hour wind. And we went the length of the field,

and I run it in for the score. That's my go-to because that was not a Grey Cup game. That was the AFC-NFC championship game to get to the Grey Cup, and then I won my first championship in the Grey Cup. So that, to me, was maybe the most important, but this is obviously the most talked about. Man, that's amazing. Still to this day.

What's the aftermath, Jack? Miami goes down in the Orange Bowl, BC. Oh, it was UCLA. Oh, my bad. We got that one. UCLA hit a 55-yard field goal in the last play to beat them. Not Ohio State. Sorry about that.

BC comes out victorious, 47- 47 45 one of my worst games ever was that holy cross game the following week we won big it was holy cross trap game trap game but yeah my little brother had a hell of a day he had a couple touchdowns and catches and great run but yeah i played like crap can you imagine playing with you the heisman trophy you're throwing touchdowns your bro It was the last regular season game. How cool. That's so fucking cool. He was a freshman that went in on rundowns and blocked and came out.

And he had maybe 12 to 15 catches that year, a couple of catches here and there. And that Holy Cross game, he had his first touchdown. It was a cover two, and we had a deuce formation, two tight ends, two flankers. He was a flanker out to the right. And we had a run play called. I saw cover two. I checked the three verticals and I went play. I don't know if it was play action, but drop back. I looked to safety in the middle. He was a walk into Darren down the rail. I didn't even realize he was in the game. Thank God I would have overthrown him or something. If I knew that

I would have screwed it up. So I turned, and that was pretty cool. But we get the ball back, come back, and he runs a little trap. Two guys in the hole, bounces off him, spins, goes like 20 yards for a touchdown. And I was like, that was cool because he earned that one. I did kind of the work on the first one.

But he really got, he got the, it was really, it was cool for him to be a part of that senior year for me. He left Boston College as the all-time leading receiver. Wow. And then signed as a free agent, played three years in the NFL, was a Hall of Famer in Canada. Didn't you guys have – there was a Flutie that played on our team. Was it his son?

Or wasn't there – At BC. No, but for the Patriots for a second, like came into our camp. Wasn't there a – I doubt it, but Billy, my nephews, my brother Bill's boys, Billy played at Boston College. My other nephew, Troy Derrenson, played at Boston College. Yeah, that's what it was.

Did he have a big play? Didn't one of the Flutie – I just remember when i was playing here there was a there was a young flutie yeah i had a big player well billy billy had a play where uh they beat virginia tech on a fake field goal and he threw a touchdown pass he went to vt he had a big touchdown pass that's what it was and then troy a freshman, got a chance to play and start and played well for a few weeks. And then he got intimidated a little bit by the situation and the coach and all that and didn't play well for a while

and never got another shot. But had a couple of nephews. Still a lot of flutes, though, everywhere. That's right. A lot of flutes. Keep it going, Jack. That's right. BC would go on to beat Keep it going, Jack. That's right. BC would go on to beat Houston in the Cotton Bowl, as we mentioned.

Finished 10-2, number four in the nation. And Doug landed on the cover of Sports Illustrated after this one. Sports Illustrated. Back when it was Sports Illustrated. Yeah. It was pretty darn cool. It wasn't even his coolest thing. He got Flutie Flakes, right?

That's right. What was the origin of the Flutie Flakes? How did that come along? Well, I had left the CFL. I signed with Buffalo. And during the off-season training, mini camps or whatever, I signed a deal with PLB Sports

to do some type of endorsement. We hadn't decided on what kind of food. They asked me a frozen food, and I'm like, frozen pizza. I'm a pizza guy. Let's go frozen pizza. They come back to me with, well, the profit margin's better on a breakfast cereal.

I go, why'd you ask me? So then they asked me a favor. I was like, Frosted Flakes guy, let's do a flake. Yeah, sure. We do, it's supposed to come out during the beginning of the season training camp. Well, everything got pushed back, delayed, it didn't happen. And the timing happened to work out perfectly with when i took

over as a starter it finally came out it was like flutie mania in buffalo it was nuts i was scheduled i had scheduled a autograph signing in rochester at a home quarters like a home depot during the like early on before I was playing a lot. Well, now it was the height I was playing. The Flutie Flakes were out. It was supposed to be seven to nine that night on a Tuesday. People were showing up the store at noon.

They had to close, they had 2,500 people in the store by two o'clock in the afternoon. I had to close the doors and not allow it. I went to sign. I got there an hour early. I signed from six o'clock to 1030. Oh my God. And did not 6 o'clock to 10.30. Oh, my God. And did not get through half the people.

It was just the whole thing just blew up and became a big deal. And the Flutie Flakes was all about the foundation. It was a big thing. I mean, when you went and took the storm, I remember that. I mean, I liked you more when you were a charger. Let's name this. Let's name this. Let's name this game. We'll be right back after this quick break.

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Learn more over at GrimAndMild.com slash curiosities. Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently hit the number one science podcast in America. I'm a neuroscientist at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the three-pound universe in our heads. We're looking at a whole new series of episodes this season to understand why and how our lives look the way they do. Why does your memory drift so much? Why is it so hard to keep a secret? When should you not trust your intuition? Why do brains so easily fall for magic tricks? And why do they love conspiracy theories? I'm hitting these questions and hundreds more

because the more we know about what's running under the hood, the better we can steer our lives. Join me weekly to explore the relationship between your brain and your life by digging into unexpected questions. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your coffee. No dumb hot takes here. Just smart hot takes.

We'll talk every single game every single week, but I can't do it alone. So I'm bringing in the big guns from NFL media. That's Patrick Claiborne, Steve Weiss, Nick Shook, Jordan Roderick from the Athletic, and of course, Colleen Wolfe. This is their window right now. This is their Super Bowl window. Why would they trade him away? Because he would be a pivotal part of them winning that Super Bowl. I don't know why, Colleen. Catch the podcast, the NFL Daily with Greg Rosenthal every day. Subscribe today and you'll immediately be smarter and funnier than your friends.

And who doesn't want that? Listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So this is a segment where we name the game, we score the game. What do you think we should give the name of this game? The Hail Flutie? The Hail Mary game? The Miracle Miami? The Miami Miracle?

Or something that comes to your mind? I think the miracle in Miami was the one that stuck and fits. That fits. The Hail Mary game could have been Aaron Rogers any week of the season. Hail Flutie is a little presumptuous. But that's what the internet likes to call it. That's the best Google

Hail Mary game. Oh, really? That's cool. This is his miracle in Miami. There's been quite a lot his. Miracle in Miami. Miracle in Miami. There's been quite a lot of miracles in Miami, too. I know. We got smoked on the last play game when we had Gronk in there for the Hail Mary, and then they didn't tell the Hail Mary.

Oh, my God. Still too soon. Let's score this thing. Let's score the game. Is this the greatest game of all time? Let's score it. Stakes, 1 to 10. Decimal's okay on this game. The stakes of of this game it's a high nines oh the

stakes in the game stakes the stakes it meant nothing it was bragging rights it was situ because the week before cotton bowl we took the cotton bowl bid because they wanted a new year's day bid they wanted a winner goes to the sugar loser to the the fiesta. And the fiesta was not a New Year's Day Bowl at that time. And our administration didn't want to take a chance. They didn't have to trust us. We could have played for a national championship if we went to Sugar Bowl. But we took the bird in hand.

So the stakes were five. Amazing how the bowls worked back then. Jules? Stakes. I mean, he's got a Heisman Trophy going. Underdog stuff happening here, too. I mean, this is still Miami versus BC, David versus Goliath. I'm going to go with a seven.

Okay. Jack did a 7.4. I did a 7.8. It's an integrity score by Doug. Integrity score. It's an integrity score. Star power, zero to 10. Oh, this was nine.

Primarily because of all their studs. And then I was the front runner for the Heisman at the time. Vinny Testaverde was a backup quarterback. He was on the bench. You got Vinny Testaverde. You got Bernie Kosar. You got Doug Flutie, Heisman Trophy winner. You got Tom Coughlin.

Jimmy was gone, I think, at this point. Tom was gone. But you had Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy Johnson. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to go eight and a half. I like it. Game play. Jack did 5.9.

I did 7.3. I was a Russian judge there. Sorry. What am I thinking? Game play. Come on. This is an all-time game play game. This is great. Unless you're a defensive coach. For me, it was one of my most polished games. There's like three throws I wish I had back in the third quarter

you can start out 11 of 11 and I can't do that in practice I was not a high percentage guy I was a wheel and deal throw it up the field it's make big plays my completion percentage that's why I started running shovel passes up in Canada

keep that completion- You gotta do what you gotta do. 65. Those high percentage throws. Game play, both offenses were amazing. The defenses, not that they played poorly, they just weren't. I gotta go like eight, five, nine, somewhere, eight, five.

High scoring for me, it was fun. The Hail Marriott then. That's a nine. No one stopped anyone. This was basically what we all wanted in the future. Jack had a 7.8, which I think we're going to need to get some eyes checked on Jack. Kyler had a 9.5.

There were a couple of punts in the game. Name of the game. You've got to score the name. Miracle in Miami miami cultural relevance 40 years later i'm still talking about it i always refer to it as the miracle of miami because i think that was the headline on sports illustrative so i i've always labeled it as that i'll go with miracle of miami so what's the score of the miracle of miami you got to score the name oh score the day you got to score the name doug 7.5 7. You got to score the name, Doug. 7.5. 7.5? I'm going to go 8.4. Jack

has a 9.1. I have a 9.7. All right. Where does it go? 7.96. What does that lead in the scoreboard? Jimmy's heartbreak would be a fun one, or Bernie's heartbreak. Let's go to the heartbreak and Bernie's heartburn. That's right above

Game 5 of the 2005 NBA Fin Finals Spurs versus Pistons and right below Super Bowl 53 Patriots Rams. This one's way too low. This is going to be a game that needs to be re-scored at some point. What is this? Our top game? These are all the games we've done. And the game fits in.

We had big shot, Rob. 23rd for that 2005. The Rams, who did we have? Slater. Slate. Matthew Slater. This is a way better game than that. This is crazy.

Whatever. This should be a top five game. Amen. Amen. Doug, did we miss anything about this game or this season or Boston College? Probably not. We just raked it over the coals. But we beat Alabama at the beginning of that year.

That kicked off the season. We were down 31-14. Kerry Good had just returned the opening kickoff of the second half. He was a stud. Went 100 and whatever yards. And we're down 31-14 at Alabama. Oof. And we came back to win that.

And Tony Thurman had a couple big interceptions. I think he had three interceptions in that game. And that was the game that made the season possible. That's low-key the game that helped you win the Heisman as well. That was like early in the year, high profile, nationally televised when things weren't nationally televised. And coming off my junior year, that put me as a front runner early in the year man you want to plug anything just our foundation Doug Flutie Jr. Foundation for Autism we have an event

coming up in August that is going to be my life's work you know I thought I played football a long time I've already had the foundation for 25 years and we are it's it's really cool to see the difference we're making and helping people and building facilities and building opportunities for kids with autism you know that that was the first time Doug and I ever got to meet I was a huge childhood fan I was so fanatic of Doug I was a 5'10 5'9 quarterback he was my like god and i disappointed him never never never you gave me the invite i think it was a basketball game no it was a hard rock cafe oh the hard rock cafe thing yeah we did the hard rock cafe i got to meet you there and it was for the doug flutie

junior foundation and it's impressive to see where you give your time. We all talk about how great he was on the field in college with the great cups as a professional in the NFL, but to see your life work and where you put your heart and your time with your Doug Flutie Jr. Foundation, it's amazing. I remember to this day, and I'm very thankful that I put that early on in his career. He was there supporting me and supporting us and being there. was really cool and i remember that no doubt that and i remember

the basketball game we played somewhere out in worcester or whatever you came out for it it was how terrible was the basketball game that i played in that was a terrible bet we had we we had like celebrities verse cops or something no it was it was like a Harlem Globetrotters type team. Yeah. And we want to be competitive, and they want to do their tricks. So it's like, but it went well. It went well. Man, Doug, I just want to say thank you for taking the time

to come on my podcast. I mean, you're such a huge inspiration for me, for a lot of kids. But for me individually, man, I love you to death, and thank you for coming on Games of Names. Thank you, Doug. look at my guy well that was awesome to have mr boston in boston doug footy's so cool man that's like an episode when you're pitching games with names that's a games with names episode that is a game the hail mary i, old flutes just rolling around in a kayak during a flood. Or a canoe.

Looking like Sean Penn down in Hurricane Katrina down there. Saving lives. Paddling through the water. Getting a workout in. Natick High School sweatshirt on. Everywhere, bro. I mean, he still has that competitive edge. That competitive fire.

I almost fell out of my chair when he's talking about dropping 30 on a carnival cruise ship, playing pickup with 19-year-olds, like backing them down, crafty old veteran basketball moves. Incredible. Flutes. He played with Jordan? He played with the pickup game. Jordan? That's wild.

That one needs some more unearthing. Oh, my God. We need to do a game with names on that. We need to do a Games of Names on that. We need to do a Games of Names on that. I need some footage. I need security cameras, pics, whatever I can get. That's incredible. We got to get him back on.

We got to do like a Grey Cup for our Canadian fans. We do. I'm down, bro. I mean. CFL needs love, too. He was legit one of my heroes. I don't blame you, man. You know, and he exceeds.

They always say you never want to meet your hero. Well, nah. You can meet your hero in its flutes because he's just a great dude. Heart over height all day, baby. Rolls up. What was on his request? Starburst. Starburst.

Five hours of your drink. Coca-Cola. And a Coke. I love it, baby. And he still looks great. He said a handful of Starbursts get him right. He's the best. No Advil, no nothing, just a handful of Starbursts.

Hey, he goes, my energy was down. I just need a Starburst. What's funny, we were at a bar the other day, and the Nugenics commercial came up. I was like, I know that guy. Yeah. Now I've got to get Frank Thomas on day, and the Nugenics commercial came up. I was like, I know that guy. Yeah. Now I've got to get Frank Thomas on. Secret ingredient in Nugenics?

Starburst. Starburst. Ground up Starburst in a capsule. In honor of Doug Flutie's legendary Hail Mary, we're going to rank some of the best Hail Marys of all time. Oh, oh, oh. We'll come to a consensus of our top five. What are they?

This is tough. Let's get into them here. You want to read through them real quick? Let's read through them. All right. So first, of course, the B.C. Doug Flutie to his roommate, Gerard Phelan. First, Miami.

We talked about that one. Got to put that in the list. He always kept him the first name basis to Gerard. Gerard, Gerard. Big wham guy. Do you buy? We got to look at the tape again, but do you buy that the guy was open?

He texts me, I forgot. Oh, the all 22? He texts me a picture of it. Okay, well, we'll put that on the show. We'll put that on the show. Because I, yeah, I had never heard that one before. Because I feel like a guy like that, he always has to talk about that play.

He's got to like come up with some little like wrinkle or fun little inside thing. He texts me a picture. It's a picture of the film and it's zoomed into the guy. Is the play as memorable if he just hits that wide open guy and he walks in? No. No?

Yeah, but maybe. Bands on the field? All right. The band is on the field. We got Russell Wilson, the Golden Tate versus Green Bay. That was back on September 24th of 2012. I remember that. That's when it was a little bit more infamous than famous.

That's the Fail Mary, right? I believe so. Why? Why is it the Fail Mary? Let's throw it up real quick. Because it shouldn't have been. It should not have been. It should not have been a catch.

What? What do you mean? Why not? I remember this, but I don't remember this. This was fake refs. Yeah, I remember this. Okay, this is the right one. Oh, this was refs on strike year.

Yep. All right, so we got that one on the list. Crazy. Which, by the way. Against the Packers, and didn't the Packers have one? Then we also have, we've included Green Bay, Aaron Rodgers to Jeff Janis against the Cardinals January 16th, 2016. This is an NFC Divisional round game.

That is. Which is wild. That's still the game they lost when Larry Fitzgerald had that crazy play at the end, correct? Yes, this was to tie it. Yeah, and then an OT, Larry Fitzgerald had that crazy play. Yeah. That's a crazy. That's a great game.

We should do that game at some point. I'm down. Get Larry on. Get Larry on. Then we're staying in arizona kyler murray to deandre hopkins versus buffalo november 15th 2020 also known as the hail murray crazy one that was a great i remember that one rolls out lets that thing fly moving to the college game before we move on from kyler murray as a kyler myself i've never met any other kylers in the world and so i've always like whenever i meet a kyler it'll be like a moment

and the first kyler i met was kyler murray and i can't stress enough how little he cared you hate to see it you hate to see it you hate to see it man uh kyler Old Kyler. Then we're moving to the college game. This is the 1980 Holiday Bowl. BYU, SMU. BYU came back from 45-25 down with three minutes and 57 seconds left in the game. This is a crazy one. The Holiday Bowl comeback. Maybe for all you Mormon fans out there, we do this game at some point. Or should I say LDS members?

LDS members. Is that Steve Young? What's an LDS member? Latter-day Saints. We've got a lot of Latter-day Saints people in my life. Do you really? Yeah, Agent. Oh, tight. Carter Chow, shout out. Shout out. I didn't know that. Alex Guerrero, shout out. Really? I did not know that.

Yeah. This was Jim McMahon, by the way. Jim McMahon. Jim McMahon. I forgot when they were QB. QBU. Yeah. Wow. QBU. Then we're back to Aaron Rodgers. Man, Mr. Hail Mary himself.

The miracle in Motown versus the Lions. This was on an untimed down. Another crazy one. And then back to the college game. We have LSU versus Kentucky. Marcus Randall to Devery Henderson. The bluegrass miracle. This game has been requested.

74-yarder as time expires. What year? This was 2002, I believe. Nick Saban was LSU. Nick Saban, LSU. You know who the quarterback was for Kentucky? Jared Lorenzo. The big guy?

Pillsbury throwboy, baby. He played for the Giants for a while. Yeah. I loved him. He was so large in the early 2000s how much did he weigh like 270

and then he got when he was in the arena league he got he got got why he just did he just got he played at like 285

dang if Doug Doug Fleury to you was like Jared Lorenzen to me he was 6'4 though I thought he was shorter no he's a big guy

yeah I was thinking he was like 6', he's a big guy. Yeah. I was thinking he was like 6'1". He had a cannon. Cannon for an arm. Do we want to... How do we want to do this? Do we want to watch a couple of these? Do we want to just rank them off top there?

No, we got this. We got this. All right, what are we thinking? We already saw the fake one. Is that making the top five? The infamous? Yeah. No.

No, it was bad. It shouldn't have counted. It wasn't real. That one's done. No. Fake refs. Fake refs. It shouldn't have counted. It wasn't real. That one's done. No. That one's done. Fake refs. Fake news.

Fake news. I think you got it. So what's five first? We've got five. We'll go five. We'll start at five. What are you thinking, Jackie? I think Rodgers has got to be in here at some point, I think.

I kind of feel like putting one of the Rodgers ones down here. For being a guy that probably is removed as ever from religion, and he's probably a science guy. Right. This guy has the most Hail Marys. Really? You know what I mean? It's crazy, so he's got to be in there.

That is funny. It's the mother Gaia. Yeah, the ayahuasca long, I don't know. Which is cool. Which is cool. It works. Whatever. Flo works. Whatever. Float your boat.

So they lost this Green Bay game, right? Yeah, they ended up losing that one. Can't be that one. Let's pick the one that they won. The one against the Lions. It has a good name, Miracle in Motown. Yeah, I feel bad because we're such a pro Lions podcast. I know.

We like MCDC. We like Calvin. We like Matthew. We also just like the Motor City. We baby like detroit pizza pizza hate the turf though turf is hated hated like the ford museum the largest music i think it's the large or is it the ford museum there's i think the fords own it but that's like the largest museum per capita in the world. I still want to go. It's amazing. All right, so that one's in. All right, we'll put that at number five.

Four. I feel like we got it. The Kyler Murray one is a regular season game. It is a regular season game, but it was very impressive. DeAndre, like, rarely do you see a Hail Mary where the guy pretty much goes up and high points it, which DeAndre did. DeAndre Hopkins, I i mean after this everyone like it just shot out he had the best hands in the league also hail he does have really it is hail

murray we'll go through four three so what do we got left we've got bc we've got the byu and the holiday ball and we got the bluegrass miracle i like I like, I'm partial, I love a good, I'm a sucker for some SEC ball, man. I kind of want to put that at three. I kind of think it could be two. Maybe even two, honestly. It could be two. That wasn't the year LSU won the title,

was it, with Nick Saban? I don't believe so. I think we got to go with BYU-SMU for three, because they're both Christian schools. And this is a Christian play, kind of. I love that. I like that. Get your rosary beads out.

I don't think neither of those Christianities use rosary beads. Catholics do. But BC will. I don't think SMU is. Oh, yeah, no, no. They're like Protestant or something. I don't think sms oh yeah no like protestant or something i don't know big time no you're right the holiday bullet three holiday bullet three now between the bluegrass miracle and the hail flutie one or two or he calls it the miracle in miami i think you got to put that number one flutie's got to be one flutie's one for sure one we're giving it to our we can we go with with give lsu number two i think we may have to redo it

yeah we got a there are a lot more in here because aaron's got two hail marys so he's got to be probably number two i don't know if it showed up in here but didn't he have a game where he had two hail marys in the same game aaron rogers has like the craziest like he has crazy things about his career and like what his strengths are like Like he's the best at using his cadence. We used to have a green Bay cadence named after Aaron Rogers, where the guy jumps off sides, we snap it. So you get the free play.

How many times does he get that? A lot. Yeah. He practices his cadence games. Probably some of the best of all time. Great cadence game. Double her Mary. Yeah.

It was in the same drive against Arizona Cardinals. This is that Arizona Cardinals game that they lost yeah this is crazy yeah that is pretty impressive our top five hail flutie the bluegrass miracle the holiday ball byu smu hail murray and then the miracle in mode time please audience tell us why we're wrong amen please jules can we do a quick i don't know that we did it enough with jules but can you tell us by the book what you're supposed to be doing on the Hail Mary? Well, I don't know. No, I do know. Teaching-wise, I know it's a free-for-all at some point.

You're trying to, for a last play of the game situation, you're trying to get as many guys as you can in the end zone. And you create like a box or a triangle where there's someone in the middle who is trying to get up and high point the ball, like the example of DeAndre. Then you have either one or two guys. You have two guys in front of him.

Then you have a guy behind him that are trying to play the tips. You know, sometimes it's a box where you have, but it's hard getting all the guys down there. But that's what you're trying to do. You're trying to get a box or a triangle with a guy in the middle. So you can just try to play the best possible situation out for deflex. Guy who's in the middle is trying to high point.

If it doesn't, the other guys are trying to play ricochets. That makes sense. This ain't Madden where you just click four verticals and, and scan the field. No, but there's some science to it there's also like the counter hail mary which doug was kind of saying oh we had the guy the tight end and the back side where you know those three guys will be going up in one side and i know this podcast is a terrible podcasting but you know you got three guys going here and then the last second one of the guys goes the back end to try to create a one-on-one because you they're

all they all know you're playing the box so if you can get one guy like we'd have a gronk play or gronk would go over there so you can get a matchup potentially one-on-one two-on-one is better than having like five guys on three over here so there's that as well but hail married by definition is everyone getting the end zone let's try to let's try to play it what was fun about this bluegrass miracle one is that they were like 15 yards short yeah and it got tipped up yeah we're like snuck through and like split the defenders so that's a real hair man that's a great one that's number two involved that was number two i mean rightfully so jules did you ever attempt to hail mary at kent state

i don't think so i was gonna say i know i know the kent state tape and i don't remember any I was number two. I mean, rightfully so. Did you ever attempt to hail Mary at Kent State? I don't think so. I was going to say, I know the Kent State tape, but I don't remember any. I never did. There's a couple at the end of games. I think I've been involved in an end of game one. Actually, no, because you, no.

I feel you. I just feel like I have because we've practiced the situation a million times. Situational football, baby. You're ready for it. So the next time it happens, it's deja vu. Well, what a game. Thanks again to Doug. That's been another episode of Games with Names. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Comment a game you want us to do. And remember, rate and review. So much better. So much better so much better remember to follow games with names on YouTube Instagram X

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games with names is a production of iHeartRadio for more podcasts from iHeartRadio visit the iHeartRadio app For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Pradenti. And I'm Jermaine Jackson-Gadsden.

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as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit. Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Keri Champion, and this is season four of Naked Sports. Up first, I explore the making

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Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive bonus content by subscribing to iHeart True Crime Plus, only on Apple Podcasts. How do you feel about biscuits? Hi, I'm Akilah Hughes, and I'm so excited about my new podcast, Rebel Spirit, where I head back to my hometown in Kentucky and try to convince my high school to change their racist mascot, the Rebels, into something everyone in the South loves, the biscuits.

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