Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 130. Hal Linden

Episode Date: November 21, 2016

Emmy and Tony-winning actor and singer Hal Linden has done everything there is to do in show business, including sitcoms, movies, Broadway, nightclubs and even dubbing foreign language films. Hal joins Gilbert and Frank for a look back at his long and varied career and reveals why "Barney Miller" was considered the most authentic of all cop shows. Also, Hal covers Benny Goodman, backs up Perry Como, shares the screen with Harry Morgan and cuts the rug with Donald O'Connor. PLUS: Cab Calloway! Eddie "The Old Philosopher" Lawrence! "Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster"! The Chinese Bing Crosby! And Hal salutes the late, great Abe Vigoda! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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with bite-sized bursts of flavor and more. From pork belly bites full of barbecue flavor to skewer sensations that will keep the grill going for dessert. Make this your best summer yet with PC. Hi, I'm Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer Frank Perderosa. Our guest this week is a singer, musician, an Emmy-winning and Tony-winning actor who has conquered the stage, nightclubs, films, and television over his nearly seven-decade career.

Memorable films include Alan Alda's A New Life, When You Comin' Back, Red Rider, and Out to Sea, co-starring screen legends Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau. His TV appearances are too numerous to mention, but here goes anyway. The FBI, The Love Boat, The Carol Burnett Show, The Golden Girls, The Muppet Show, Great Performances, Will and Grace, Gilmore Girls, Night of 100 Stars, The Mindy Project, and Two Broke Girls, just to name a few. He's also worked extensively on Broadway and off-Broadway stage, appearing in hit shows like Bells Are Ringing, The Pajama Game, The Apple Tree, On a Clear Day You Can See Forever,

Cabaret, and The Rothschilds, for which he was awarded the Tony for Best Actor. Is there more? You bet there is. He's also an accomplished musician and nightclub performer, and in 2011, he released his first album of jazz and pop standards, It's Never Too Late. But to us, as well as millions of viewers all over the world, he'll always be known as the unflappable and compassionate police captain Barney Miller in the iconic and long-running TV series of the same name. Please welcome to the podcast a man of multiple talents and, to our knowledge, the only man

to work with both Billy Barty and Godzilla. Hal Linden. Boy, am I impressed. What a resume. Yeah. Did you know? By the way, it is seven decades. How many years in total, Al?

Well, it depends where you count from. I became a professional musician in 1945, so it's over 70. Wow. 70 years in show business. I got to tell you, one thing I saw on TV once that annoyed the hell out of me, it was one of these shows, like these joke-type shows, like they throw together a special. And this was making fun of these actors and athletes who release albums where they sing, like, you know, William Shatner and U Downs and all those people. Oh, Leonard Nimoy.

Yeah, Leonard Nimoy, a bunch of them. Savalas. That's right, Telly Savalas. Yes, yes. He did one or two. a bunch of them. Savalas. That's right, Telly Savalas. Yes, yes. He did one. And in the midst of it, just to show how fucking stupid they were,

they go, and when Barney Miller was on the air, even Hal Linden thought he could sing. And I thought, the fuck is wrong with them? He's a singer. Yes. He started as a singer.

That was my entrance into the theater. Yeah. I came from the big band era where I played with Bobby Sherwood and Ray McKinley and bands like that as a saxophone player. But I was always the boy singer. Or not really the boy singer. I was the one who jumped out of the saxophone player, but I was always the boy singer, or not really the boy singer. I was the one who jumped out of the saxophone section, sang the song, and then had to go back and sit down

and play the rest of the song on the saxophone. And when I went into the theater, the natural place was into the musical theater, so I started out singing right away. Yeah, I've heard you say you didn't really want to be John Raitt. You wanted to be Benny Goodman. Benny Goodman. Yeah. Well, that was in the beginning. I actually started as a legitimate clarinet player. Had I any kind of discipline in my life, I would today be a, or would have been a first chair clarinet player

with some symphony. Uh, and think about it. I could have been making hundreds of dollars a week. And, um, the, it was lack of discipline and, and hormones that drove me out of the classical music business. I realized that more girls went to dances than went to symphony concerts. So I became a saxophone player. And that blew the whole legitimate career. We should say, too, you were born right here in the Bronx. Bronx, New York. Yeah, another New York guest.

We've had a lot of New York-born guests on this show. And tell us your real name. Harold Lipschitz. And what was— Since I was going to be a big band leader, hard to parse, swing and sway with Harold Lipschitz. Just didn't quite make it. So between high school and college, I changed my name.

And what was your nickname? Lippy. Lippy. Lippy. Listen, that's the better part. Could have been the other half. You know? And you came from a musical family didn't you hell

i my brother i had one brother uh two cousins who lived downstairs and four cousins who lived in another uh across the bronx uh six boys i was the youngest and every one of them started out as uh musically as a musician at one point five of the eight were professional musicians and major professional musicians i'm talking about first chair viola with the nbc symphony i'm talking about the concertmaster of the Goldman Band, really top-notch musicians. I was, as I say, the youngest. So when the time came for me, it wasn't a question of was I going to study music. It was a question of pick an instrument. We've got a clarinet.

We've got a fiddle. What do you want to play? And so it was a foregone conclusion for me. So you are from a whole family of music. Just my generation. Nobody in the, it didn't come from musicians, but my father was a music lover, and he thought, the way he put it,

he said, when you go to a concert, I want you to know what you're listening to. That's why he put it, he said, when you go to a concert, I want you to know what you're listening to. That's why he taught us music. That's why he insisted we study music. And it turned out to be a godsend. Certainly was for me because when I finally did go into the theater and became an actor, I never waited on tables. I never drove a cab. Because I could read music.

I could sight sing. I could do jingles. I could do all kinds of things that other people couldn't do. Thank heaven for the music. I've heard you say you did everything in show business that somebody could do, basically. Just about. Just about. Just about. If you make me a list, I don't think I missed anything.

Gilbert, you'd find this interesting, too, that one of the things Hal did early on is, what would you call it, Hal? Was it dubbing? Was it? We called it dubbing at the time. This was in the late 50s, early 60s, when there were only three networks. And every so often, every city had an independent station. And what they used to do is they would show either very old movies or foreign movies that they could get really cheap, foreign movies that never came to America. And we would go into a studio and put the English words into the foreign actors' mouths.

They would write the entire script, and we'd go and do it piece by piece, put the words, and it was always lip-synced so that it looked like the actors were speaking in English. Which explains the Godzilla part in the end. Yeah, Godzilla versus the She-Monster. She's also in Destroy All Monsters. I'd work with Godzilla. But then again, I also did some interesting movies.

I did the Russian War and Peace that won the Academy Award that time. I did Z. Oh, the Costa Gavras movie. I was Contignon in Z. Oh, that's a good movie. Yes. I did a whole bunch of very good movies and some really lousy movies. We used to go in there sometimes.

There were like three actors, and we'd do all the parts. Just change the voice a little, you know. It'd be for an old man, you speak like this. For a young guy, you talk like this. Always with an accent. One time, I was doing some picture in the morning, and they stuck their nose in and said, can you do a, can you, somebody laugh for me? And I did a laugh, and they said, fine, Studio 7.

And what it was was, now what was that movie? Remember, the music was Mozart, a Danish picture. And it was about young people in love and there was a whole sequence of laughter and they just didn't like the laughter that the guy had done so uh so i did all the laughter in in the movie and then the next day it was a uh they used to take um you know foreign pictures where where the couple would go into the bedroom and the door would close fade out so they would go into hotel rooms and you'd see arms and legs and and and we do heavy breathing so i would heavy breathe one day and laugh the next day and be a have a swedish accent the next day it was uh hey kept me going kept me going and till till something happened on Broadway for me.

Yeah, it's the rare actor that never had to do odd jobs. Oh, never waited on tables, never drove a cab. I always kind of have to apologize to all my fellow actors because I know what they went through. So what was the official big break, Hal? Was it the bells are ringing with Judy Holliday? Bells are ringing. the bells are ringing with judy holiday bells are ringing bells are ringing was um i was in some i had just started basically it was only my i think third year in the business and and it wasn't a full years i can tell you but i had done a couple

of seasons of summer stock i was in summer stock playing uh character roles or anything I can get a hold of. I was going with a dancer on Broadway who was in Bells Are Ringing, and she heard that there was an opening for the understudy to the lead. Actually, he was a standby. There's a distinction. One has a reputation. The other is just a chorus member. there's a distinction one has a reputation the other is just a chorus member uh and they were it was about the second or third year of the show and he was leaving they wanted to go to

an understudy somebody to come into the chorus and understudy the lead and she suggested me i didn't even have an agent so i drove into new york to audition for the stage manager just to get an audition for the casting person. And after five or six auditions, I got the job. I was still, here was my career. That Saturday that I got the job, because I had to audition between shows at the Shuba Theater for Judy, Judy Holiday. She had to okay me as the understudy. Oh, interesting. That day, I was a Ray Charles singer, the other Ray Charles. Ray Charles used to be a what? Music arranger, singer, wonderful guy. and i was a rachel singer on the perry como

show standing behind perry going oh and at a break i ran over to the schubert theater got my audition for judy got the job came back we the Como show. I got in my car, drove to Long Island, and played a bar mitzvah on the saxophone. That's show business. Monday morning, I started rehearsal with a stage manager and a book. And Saturday, all week, he just gave me the staging. We worked together all week.

Saturday morning was the first understudy rehearsal. And in the middle of it, he came out and said, keep rehearsing because you're on today. And I made my Broadway debut in the lead of a musical. Wow. Replacing, was it Chaplin's son, Sidney Chaplin? Sidney Chaplin. Very charming, wonderful guy.

Yeah. And you were once hired to be like this stand-in. Always. That whole decade. Yeah. The 60s. I was the understudy or the standby. Very painful.

And you were in luck because there was a plague going on. That was the beginning of asian flu it was the first asian flu and sydney got it on a saturday matinee that was my broadway debut and i uh that was also the last time last club date i ever played as a saxophone player once i got into the theater i put it away and actually I didn't touch it for about 20 years. Wow. Yeah. Go ahead. No, I was going to say, the next time I picked up the horn was in the 70s.

That was 1958. So it was in the 70s already, 20 years later. And I was doing a Captain Tennille special in, I was Barney already, and we did a special in New Orleans. We were sitting around talking about what I was going to do on the show. I said, you know, New Orleans.

I used to play the clarinet. I could probably get it together and do a little Dixieland. They got all excited. They hired little Dixieland. They got all excited. They hired a Dixieland band, mine is declaring a player. Tony Tennille said, oh, I'll do a number with the group.

Went down to New Orleans, rehearsed with the group. We came up with a number we could do. It was their arrangement that I joined in on. We got that next morning. We got to the nightclub that they had hired and blacked out the windows and pumped smoke all over the place to make it look exotic. And I started to get nervous because I hadn't been playing the horn for 20 years.

I wasn't sure how this was going to go. Grabbed the group in the corner and we quickly ran through it. Okay, fine. Okay, we're going to shoot it. Got up on the stage and we did the number. It was perfect. Of course, the cameras weren't. So it was Hal, we're going to have to do do take two we didn't know who was playing when okay

take two now we played it again fine really good uh we're gonna need a another take hal to uh take three take seven take 12 take 19 now we're going to change coverage. By this time, the embouchure is going south. I could hardly hold the clarinet in my mouth. These muscles are the muscles. You know, if you play all the time, that's fine. It's strong. But when you don't play, I could. By the time Tony got up to sing her song,

I could barely make a sound. Air was coming out of my mouth. We made it through, though, and that experience got me back to playing the horn again. So I look at it positively. That's great. After a 20-year layoff. 20 years layoff. Wow.

Now, you brought the horn with you. You brought the clarinet with you. I got the horn with me. I thought, you know, I would make some noises. That way would kind of equal what the noises that Gilbert makes. He's very musical, huh? Yes. Okay, you want to sing the first part and I'll play the second part?

Okay. What do you want to hear? You got any requests? I have a little tip jar right here. Gosh. What was your specialty in the old days? Oh, no, Dad. God knows.

I don't know. Do we have musical clearance? I don't dare. Oh, yeah. We're good on that. Thank you. Fantastic. That was Hal Barney Miller Linden on clarinet. Only the second guest to serenade us on an instrument that we've had on this podcast. The other one was, you know, Dominic Chianese from the Sopranos, Hal?

Oh, yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah, came in here and played his guitar for us. That sounds wonderful. Wow. Still playing, huh? Still plugging, still. Wow! Still playing, huh? Still plugging? Still... That's the sound of fried chicken with a spicy history.

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I joined the Musicians Union in 1945. Wow. Figure that out. That's 71 years ago. Wow. Well, as long as we're talking, too, about your Broadway career, and Gil will appreciate this, some of the people that Hal worked with on Broadway. First of all, tell us a little bit about what Judy Holliday was like.

The most generous actress I've ever worked with. She was everything you didn't think of her. Judy was a ditzy blonde, the original ditzy blonde. Sure, sure, that's how she was. And that's how she was looked upon. First of all, she was brilliant. I remember I went on, you know, no rehearsal. I'd never rehearsed with her.

So it was all. And I remember distinctly doing Just in Time. Just in Time comes from Bells Are Ringing. Sure. And it was done stage left to stage right in one in front of a park drop. Ostensibly, we were going to a party and I just take her in my arms and start singing in her ear as we danced across the stage. And I took her in my arms and did just that. I started singing in her ear. Just in time, I found you just in time.

And all of a sudden I felt my back, her hand on my back, twisting me. So we're now dancing kind of this way, but I was facing the audience. I hadn't even thought about it. I was just singing in her ear. That's great. She turned you facing the audience. I hadn't even thought about it. I was just seeing it in her ear. That's great. She turned you to the audience. She turned me to the audience so that we could, it was a little awkward dancing,

but the audience could hear what I was saying. Because in those days, we didn't have microphones in our hair. You know what I mean? You had to be able to. She was funny. That was the quintessential judy holiday she knew that the important thing of that moment was for me to be able to for the audience to be able to hear me do that it was generous and wasn't her real wasn't her real name something like judy yontif no no no close to vim t-u-v-i-m yeah which uh yom tov

tov tovim tovim is plural for of tov yes and that's holiday yeah hence holiday oh that's how she and as long as we're talking about names tell tell us how Harold Lipschitz became Harold Lipschitz. Before I forget that one. I was doing a Christmas gig. I was still in high school. And Christmas, we got a job in Lakewood, New Jersey. Remember, that used to be a resort town in New Jersey. I don't know.

It still may be. I have no idea. And about to graduate high school, about to go to college, and I wanted to change my name between high school and college. I had this career all planned out to be, I was going to play the Paramount Capitol. Remember when the big bands were there? And we went through Linda, New Jersey,

and there was a gas storage tank, you know, those tanks that when they're full, they're all the way up. Oh, sure, sure. And this one was full, and the name Linden was in about seven-story letters. So I said, I'll start with big billing,. And that's how I got the name Lyndon. And you got to keep your initials. Well, it was going to be an L name, yeah. Right, right.

Now, going back to Broadway, just for a second, one of your favorite actors, Gil, Jack Guilford. Oh, my God, yeah. You worked with him, Three Men and a Horse? Three Men and a Horse. The best. Three men and a horse? Three men and a horse.

The best. You know, when Jack Sue died, we did a memorial program to Jack. And each one of us got to speak about how we felt about Jack. Now, Jack had been in an internment camp in Utah. He was really Japanese, not Chinese at all. He took a Chinese name because he was not very, you couldn't have a career with a Japanese name. And the thing I said about Jack was that, Jack Hsu,

was that it never turned him bitter. A lot of people who went through that became bitter, a lot of animosity. Jack dealt with it with humor. Jack was loving and dealt with all the difficulties with his wonderful sense of humor. And that was Jack Guilford,ford too read about all the people who were blacklisted oh yeah so we just had we just had lee grant on this show well lee yeah uh but all the people who um became bitter embittered by by what uh what the blacklist did to them. Jack was open and loving. He didn't have animosity for anyone.

I'll never forget on stage in Three Men on a Horse, we were working with Sam Levine. Sam Levine was kind of a tough guy to work with because he was the original on that show. He knew every line in the show. He had directed it 50 times in summer stock. And when we decided to do it on Broadway, George Abbott was the director who hired me to play a part that I probably wasn't right for, but it was a nice stretch as an actor. I really wanted to try it. And Abbott was a big fan of mine.

He hired me. I don't think Sam ever liked the fact that I was playing a part that should have been played by, let's say, Maxi Rosenblum, you know. Slapsy Maxi. You know, that's who should have been playing the part. And here was this young guy who was a leading man at the time. And I remember in performance once, I inverted a line accidentally. I don't remember what the line was, but it was, hey, Sam, such and such.

And I said, such and such, Sam. You know, just inverted it. Nothing really important. And Sam got really angry on stage at me for doing that and kind of looked at me with daggers in his eyes and said his next line like I had just done something on stage you know what I mean and I had no more lines I just kind of took it and Jack had the next line and he walked up to Sam and did it right in Sam's face like as if saying how dare you do that to a

fellow actor? You know? This was going on on stage. It was a scene about something else. I don't know what the audience felt, but there was Jack Guilford saying, you can't do that to your fellow actors. You respect, you know. Wonderful, wonderful man.

Everybody we've had on this show knew Jack Guilford. Yeah. I think Josh Mustel knew him as a kid, too. Oh, of course. Everybody had lovely things to say about him. Just a darling man, darling man. Did you also work with, Gilbert and I are fond of Eddie Lawrence, the old philosopher. Oh, my God, yes. Eddie was in Bells Are Ringing.

Right. Eddie was in Bells Are Ringing, yes. A real character. A real character, an artist, too, you know. Yeah. He was a painter. What's the matter, Bunky? Oh, yeah.

Can you do an imitation? I don't do imitations. Yeah. I remember he would come out with those records. Yeah, sure. In those days. Say your dog ran away from home. Is that what's bothering you, punky?

Yeah. You read commercials like that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He was hysterical. And you worked with Cab Calloway. Cab Calloway. That was interesting.

Cab was in, let me put it this way, Cab was Cab. Uh-huh. And Cab was, let me put it this way, Cab was Cab. Uh-huh. He was playing the time study man in... Was that Pajama Game? Pajama Game, right. Yeah. It was a very interesting time study man.

But it was Cab Calloway, you know, which was fine, you know. But Cab had... which was fine, you know. But Cab had... People who spend their life in the theater learn a discipline. You become disciplined. The most important thing is what you're doing, not yourself.

It's always what you're doing and how you fit into the play. And a lot of people who come into the theater think they're going to bring their own personalities and it works out. It sometimes does, but sometimes it's outside the scope of what the play should be about. He seemed like an interesting guy, Cab Calloway. I was doing research on it. He apparently fired Dizzy Gillespie from his band because he thought he was mocking him. I didn't know that.

It's like an Arthur Godfrey move. Talk about Dizzy while you're at it. Yeah. When I was about 16, I went to see Dizzy on 52nd Street. I don't think we were allowed in the place. I was only 16, but we would buy a beer and stand at the bar and stand there with one beer for four hours and watch Dizzy and Bird and Coleman Hawkins, whoever. Oh, you saw all these guys. Oh, yeah. That's great. Hawkins, whoever. Oh, you saw all these guys. Oh, yeah. That's great. Well, that was, you know,

as a kid who really wanted to be a part of it, that was a big thing for me. And I remember specifically, I'm standing there four hours with a hot beer in my hand. And the bartender kept saying, how you doing? You know, I said, oh i'm fine i'm i can only afford the 75 cents that was it for the one beer but i got to hear four hours of music and i remember dizzy took a break and he was coming you remember those those uh clubs on 52nd street was only about 12 feet wide the whole building so there was only a little room for them to walk out because I was four deep at the bar and as Dizzy came by I said I said hey Diz and he stopped and took my hand and said hey man great to see you like he knew me you know to a 16 year old kid who's, yeah, I was, and that stayed with me, that moment that he, you know, reached out to, to welcome me. How many years later, it's now the Kennedy Center Honors, and I'm one of the people in the show.

And Dizzy was honored as one of the Kennedy Center honorees. And when I walked out of the elevator, the first night is a dinner. The Saturday night before the show is a dinner at the State Department dining room. That's where they actually give the awards. And I walked out of the elevator, and there was Dizzy. By now, he was in a wheelchair.

I don't remember what year it was, which I guess shortly before he died. And I went over to Diz, and now he got all excited because he recognized Barney Miller. Ah. He said, hey, man. He was most effusive, wonderful, outgoing. Hey, man. God, most effusive, wonderful, outgoing. Hey, man. God, it's nice to see you.

I'm so glad to meet you. I said, Diz, we met. And I told him about that night when I was 16 years old. And it was this incredible talent stopping to validate me. Terrific guy. How great that you hung on to that story that you never forgot it. Oh, well, 16 years old, you don't forget too much. Yeah. Forget the good stuff. You remember the good stuff and the bad stuff, right? Gil, you'll appreciate this. One of Hal's early acting roles was a small part on Car 54, Where Are You? Oh, my God.

I love that show. They shot it in the Bronx. Yes. We had Hank Garrett here. Yes. Hank Garrett and Charlotte Ray. Charlotte, dear Charlotte. They shot it in the Bronx.

I think I played a district attorney or something. It was the funny. Well, Gilbert will know the episode. It was the phony marriage service episode. Oh, was this with Molly Pecan? Molly Pecan. Yeah, Molly Pecan. Very good. Right.

Yeah. She was always claiming she could fix people up with major movie stars. That's right. Like Charles Boyer. Yeah. And Eddie Fisher. We do deep research on this show, Hal. That one I didn't recall, but now that you remember it, I do.

And you brought up Jack Su, which is the perfect segue to talk about Barney Miller. Did you know that Jack Su was in an internment camp? No. Like George Takei? No. His real name was Goro Suzuki. Suzuki, yeah. I heard around the time that Barney Miller was on the air they asked police

because there were a lot of cop shows you know, screeching tires and guns firing and car chases. And, you know, Barney Miller was basically these schlubby guys sitting around the precinct. Filling out papers. Yeah, a lot of paperwork. And they were talking. They asked a bunch of police what the most realistic show about police work was, and they all picked Barney Miller.

So did Wombo, Joe Wombo, who wrote the police novels. Blue Knight, yeah. Onion Field. Yeah, sure. He said not only was it the best police show, but it was the most authentic. And the logic is this. Ask a police officer, particularly a detective. Ask a detective, how many times have you fired your weapon in anger? Yes, they go to the range and they shoot target practice,

but how many times have you fired your weapon in anger? I've asked many detectives that, and they said once or never. I think the biggest answer was twice. You watch, you know, TV cop shows, they're firing off rounds like crazy. Right, sure. Most police work, most detective work is grunt work.

It's gathering information, recording the information, disseminating the information, getting other people's information, trying to put it together. Paperwork. That's most of police work. So that's why they said this was the accurate picture of a police detective squad room. Jack Su, by the way, I found this too in my research, did not know that he called himself the Chinese Bing Crosby.

Yes, he did. Chinese Bing Crosby. Jack was a singer. Yes. Jack was a singer. Yes. Jack was a singer. He did Flower Drum Song, the movie. Well, he did Flower Drum Song, yeah. Jack was a singer.

That's the way he built himself, the Chinese Bing Crosby. Isn't that great? That's an attempt to get work. And he went way back with Danny Arnold. I was going to say, they toured American Legion posts and bars all through the Midwest together. And that's where they became friendly. So when they were both in Hollywood in the 60s and 70s, Danny had used him before on something he did. And then when he did Barney, he brought him back for Barney had used him before on something he did. And then when he did Barney, he brought him back for Barney.

What a funny guy, Jack Sue. Oh, he had that great deadpan. Oh, yeah. Master of deadpan. Remember on The Odd Couple as the wrestler? Oh, my God, yes. Right, and lots of mash. Very funny guy.

And another guy who I knew from the comedy clubs, and that was Steve Landisberg. Steve came originally on the show as a perp. He was originally, he played a- Oh, he was the phony priest. Phony priest. He used to steal Gideon Bibles from hotel rooms and stand on street corners and hawk them for donations. He was the phony priest. I'll never forget the thing in that show was that there was a guy who was going to blow himself up in the police station.

But he wanted absolution. absolutely saw the priest he wanted absolution before he did it so he came over to steve and steve said you got it how well did you know landisberg gill the funny. Yeah, not well, but he was nice to me. He said he was a fan of mine, so I always remembered him. And the interesting thing about Steve, if you've ever seen his act, he had an act as nutty as yours. He was wild. His stuff was really over the top and out of space.

When he came on the show and he had to play a part of an intellectual, you saw the other side of Steve Lannister. You saw the actor. Yeah. You saw the actor. I remember he had a bit about Jewish country singers. Oh, he did. Oh!

All kinds of crazy things. Really wild. Yeah. Yeah. He did a lot of voices, I remember, in his act. Funny, funny man.

Funny. And of course, our favorite here, and that's Abe Vigoda. Vigoda. The late, great Abe. Who we both worked, all three of us worked with him.

Yes. I had actually worked with Abe on a commercial about 10 years before. We both got, neither one of us was doing very well, and we got a gig on a commercial. No lines, just pushing a car or something. I don't even remember what it was.

That's the first time I met Abe. But we worked on Broadway together. Not together, but I had seen him on Broadway in shows, and he saw me on Broadway, so we had that behind us. We were the first two people hired. And I remember going out to, when we did the pilot. Oh, you're the only two holdovers from the original pilot. From the original pilot, right.

Yeah. But we were the first two hired. From the original pilot. Yeah. But we were the first two hired. And we, Abe always looked like he was about to die. Right? And the press agent, the press agent wanted to do some kind of whole press thing.

He said, we're going to a gym. You can work out together. We'll get pictures of you on the treadmills next to each other and whatnot. And we did all the equipment, and they took pictures. And then Abe said, I see they got a handball court, an indoor four-wall handball. You want to play some handball court, indoor four-wall handball. You want to play some handball? I hadn't.

Now, I was 41 at the time. Abe, as I said, looked like 112. I said, sure, we'll play. He destroyed me. Abe was a handball player. You know they have those handball courts down in the village? He was one of those guys. He played handball.

He killed me. I could not keep up with him. Well, he was a runner. Was he? I don't know. He ran his whole life. Yeah. Yeah.

In fact, there's a story, and I hope it's a true story, that he went to the audition with Danny Arnold in his jogging shorts. He could. He. Yeah. I think, in fact, there's a story, and I hope it's a true story, that he went to the audition with Danny Arnold in his jogging shorts. He could very well have. He went straight from a run, and Danny said, you look tired, and gave him the part. Actually, you know, he went up for a different part. That I know. Oh, he did?

Yes. Before Jack sat at that desk, there was, in the original pilot, there was a character with an Italian name who sat at that desk. In the original pilot, there was a character with an Italian name who sat at that desk. And Abe went up for that part because he had just come off The Godfather where he had the thing with the, you know, the mafia. So he went up for that part. And Danny saw him and said,

No, I think I got an idea for you, and created Fish. No, I think I got an idea for you and created fish. And it's funny to think when you talk to Abe in real life that he was nothing. It showed what a good actor he was, that he was nothing at all like Tessio in The Godfather. No, no, no. He was closer to fish than to Tessio. Yes. No, no, no, no. Tessio, that was closer to fish than Tessio. Yes. No, no, no, no. Tessio, that was acting.

That was acting. That was not Abe at all. I read, and I hope this one's true too, and I don't know. We know Abe's daughter a little bit. Maybe we can ask her. But he was considered for the monster in Young Frankenstein. Oh. Have you heard that, Hal?

That I don't know. I have no idea. It's pretty interesting trivia if it's true. This is interesting because he wound up playing the Boris Karloff part. Oh, in Orson and Gretel on Broadway. Right, right, right, right, right. And also the, and Jack Guilford was Dr. Einstein. Really?

Yes. Yes. Yeah. I saw a version where Larry Storch was Dr. Einstein. Really? Yes. Yes. Yeah. I saw a version where Larry Storch was Dr. Einstein. Oh, wow. With Abe. Yeah. A versatile actor.

And very, very funny. Very dry. And talk about a deadpan. Very dry. Very dry funny. And there's a great YouTube video of you at his 90th, Hal. I happen to be in the neighborhood. I'm serious.

I wasn't invited. Somebody said, do you know that Ava Goddard's 90th birthday party is right down the street in that hotel? I said, you're kidding me. And we went over there, and I walked in on him. I wasn't invited. He didn't even know I was in town. Wow. there and I walked in on him he didn't hear I wasn't invited I did he didn't even know I was in town and I and I walked in and uh it was just it's kind of nice kind of nice so much stuff I found about the show obviously Gilbert and I both watched the show a wonderful show I mean it's such a smart sitcom and the show that never insulted your intelligence I didn't know that

Danny Arnold loosely based the show or designed it on the movie and the play detective detective story yes you know that kirk douglas yeah well detective story was a drama right in which there were it took place in the detective squad room different desks three different stories going on at the same time of people being questioned by detectives and whatnot. And then I think one of them grabs a gun and it turns into a tragedy at the end. It was, you know, a very heavy show. But Danny saw the possibility as he was looking at this.

He said, instead of comedy, drama, why don't we do comedy right in the same place? And that's, he put that together. And the story of how you got cast is also an odd story. That involves a fair amount of coincidence. My career has involved a fair amount of coincidence um my career has involved a fair amount of coincidence uh not the least of which was you know bells are ringing i mean i didn't even have an agent i was never presented for it i just happened to know the girl in the show and by the way i ended up marrying her so it was okay right right 52 years anyway um

So it was okay. Right. Right. 52 years. Anyway, Danny was in town. He had written and was co-producing a movie. I don't remember what movie it was. And it was over Christmas. And I think his wife sent his two kids during their Christmas break to be with him.

his wife sent his two kids during their Christmas break to be with him. And because he was kind of on set all the time trying to shoot this picture, he said, let's keep the kids busy by day, and I'll spend the evening with them. And so they put him in a limousine, and they put them on a ship to go on a trip around Manhattan or they sent them to a Nick game or to whatever they could to keep the kids busy. And they finally kind of rebelled. They said, we don't want to go anywhere. We just spend the day with you. And he said, I don't have time. Just then it was a company move. It was a full set move going from one location to another. That takes a long time. So the director said, go with your kids, spend the day with your kids.

And they happened to have tickets for the Rothschilds. So he went and got another ticket and joined them to see the Rothschilds. Never sent, never came backstage, didn't say hello, didn't send me a note nothing i didn't know you had no knowledge that he was even there he existed until two years later when they were casting barney miller and the network you know comes up with it's a list of 10 for each role that they think whoever has the highest tvq or and danny said no no I saw an actor in New York. I'm going to use him. And that was it. I never auditioned for it.

I never. He just saw me do that one role and knew that I would be right for Barney Miller. Isn't that great? You were totally an unknown actor as far as TV. Well, not quite unknown. I had won a Tony on Broadway. Yeah. As far as TV was concerned.

I had been on TV before, but you know, guest roles, things like that. Certainly not to have my own series, no. I heard a story, I know it's Richard Belzer, because he was on Law & Order

for all those years. He's still on Law & Order for all those years. What? He's still on Law & Order for all those years. In rer still on law and order for all these years. What? He's still on law and order for all these years. Henry Runs will be there forever. Henry Runs will be there forever. When he needed a cab, he would sometimes hail down a police car. Police car.

And they would see him. They think, oh, a fellow cop. Did that happen with you a lot? It did. Not a lot. One time that I can recall, and it had to do with the – I come to New York, got to a hotel, our clothes didn't arrive, our baggage didn't arrive, and I had to be somewhere in a tuxedo that night.

So by the time the clothes came and we got to the tuxedo and we ran out of the hotel looking for cabs like crazy, a cop car came by and said, Captain, can we help you? I said, as a matter of fact, I've got to be at the Majestic Theater in six minutes.

He said, hop in. And we got into the cop car and they drove me to the theater that's the one time it happened did did uh we touched on this briefly hal but did did cops approach you did they did they they they they like the show generally speaking they they identified with it i think that's the point that they identified what we were doing because that's what detectives do. And I have honorary

badges from police departments all over America and Canada. Yeah. They identified with it. So it was, police work is a lot more like Barney miller than t.j hooker and

easily oh yes oh yes now now i'm not talking about beat cops beat cops is a different life beat cops have to go out there and and deal with the with the public and you know walk walk a beat i'm to or you know or drive around in a in a black and white. I'm talking about detectives. The work that detectives do is mainly paperwork. Grunt work. Getting information from people. Tell us a little bit about

James Gregory, an actor that Gilbert and I are very fond of. Jimmy? Detective Luger. And also Planet of the Apes. Oh, he Luger. And also Planet of the Apes. Oh, he's in Beneath the Planet of the Apes. He sure is. Inspector Luger. Inspector Luger.

Sorry. Inspector Luger. Jimmy Gregory had an enormous career in Hollywood from the 30s on. He was. Oh, he's in everything. He was in everything. He was everybody's senator or a judge. Manchurian candidate. Exactly. exactly yeah but he never did comedy look at all his pictures he never did comedy i guess he knew danny and danny knew his proclivity for comedy and and Jimmy would come in to every show totally prepared.

He had made all his actor decisions. You know, we were still, listen, let's try it this way. How about that? What do you think? You know, the character needs this, et cetera. We were really a repertory theater, interacting and everything. Jimmy had every bit down from the bow tie to not only every word, but every... And he kind of smiled at us,

at the mishegas we would go through to create, you know, that's the way we worked and that's the way Jimmy worked. There was a big generational difference. You guys were fun together. How's that? You guys were a fun duo. Yes, it was a lovely relationship. Yeah, a fun dynamic.

I don't know if you remember this, but Jimmy got his own show from Barney Miller. It was called Detective School. Oh, I don't know if you remember this, but Jimmy got his own show from Bonnie Miller. It was called Detective School. Oh, I don't remember that. I don't think you ever saw it. It was on and off very quickly. We're usually pretty good at this stuff, Ralph. This was the point. This was the point. He was the teacher, how to be a detective.

And they hired, I don't't know six stand-up comics young kids right out of the comedy store right out of wow and they were gonna be his foils you know he would be the the barney miller of that show with all these crazy comics but they were comics they weren't actors. One night, we were notoriously late. We would always shoot late on the last day of shooting. It was always like 2 o'clock in the morning. And in comes Jimmy. He was doing his show. And maybe he had a couple.

He was nice and loose. Hey, Jim, you know, and everybody, we hadn't seen him the whole season because he was off doing his show. Hey, what brings you here? He looked at us, he said, I just wanted to watch some actors work. Wow.

That's great. Wow, indeed, for all of us yeah yeah i think he's in the twilight zone pilot james gregory we'll double we'll double check that i think he's in the first the first twilight zone you know what's fun about one of the things that's fun about barney miller hal uh is is just going back and looking at all those wonderful character actors. I mean, not only the main cast, but I mean, here is just a short list. Bruce Kirby, Richard Libertini, Nehemiah Perzov, Ned Glass, William Wyndham. Actors we talk about on this show.

Bob Dishy. Wow. What about Back to the Future? What's his name? Oh, Christopher Lloyd. Christopher Lloyd. Right. Kenneth Mars was on it.

Kenny Mars. Phil Leeds. Oh, Phil Leeds was here all the time. Yeah. Don Calfa. Well, Don Calfa, I think, holds the record. Don Calfa, I think, did seven Barney Millers as seven different crazy people. Funny guy.

Don was, you know, that kind of bug-eyed and nutty. And he played seven different characters. Danny didn't care. Danny didn't care that a guy would reappear as somebody else. It was next season. Don't worry about it. You know, it was the last season. That was funny.

It was next season. Don't worry about it. It was the last season. That was funny. In old TV, they could use the same actor playing 20 different parts. Sure. That was Danny's. Listen, he's funny. He's good.

I know I can count on him. Hire him. Yeah, Danny, the more you read about Danny, he's kind of like a modern day Nat Huyken. He really had an eye for talent, an eye for characters. He wrote the caddy. Oh, wow. Martin and Lewis movie. The closest thing I know to a comedic genius was Danny McDonald.

Yeah. And he knew how to use people. And he knew the point is he knew construction. A lot of great funny people don't understand construction, And he knew the point is he knew construction. A lot of great funny people don't understand construction. So they're funny in the instant, but they can't sustain it. That's the hard part. Then he knew construction, and he knew limitations.

You will notice he had some funny people playing cops. Abe, Steve. Ron Carey. Ron Carey. Yeah. But he had a frame around all of them. He said, the question to ask yourself before you make an acting choice is, The question to ask yourself before you make an acting choice is, would you go to this police officer for help who acted the way you want to act?

Because we come up with funny, you know, Ronnie Carey would come up with funny, Landisberg, you could think of, you know, funny people, and they come up with funny bits. But it had to answer that question. Would you go to a police officer who behaved like that for help? That was the limitation that he placed on. Now, the perps or the people who got ripped off, they could be as nutty as you want because there were no limitations on that,

but the police officers had to be credible police officers. And that knowledge, that structure that he forced on us is what gave the, why the cops identified with it. Because they always had to be a credible police officer. It kept it away from becoming schtick. Schtick, yeah. They were schtick, but that was on the other side of the table. Some of the people who came in, Don Kalfa could do crazy schtick. All these people were able to not ask schtick,

but to make it a part of their character. They could do it, but not the cops cops had to be credible i've also heard you say that he would cut a laugh oh if it hurt the scene or if it made the scene less believable not only that the point is it was never straight line punch line right it wasn't that kind of show no it was not straight line punchline. Right. It wasn't that kind of show. No, it was not straight line punchline. It was character comedy. Yeah. And so many times a character would say something and Wojo would look at him and, you know,

maybe he'd have a retort. But once he shot it, all you had to do was cut to you wojo and he would kind of look that was enough you didn't need the line yeah you didn't need the retort you didn't need he recognized that that we were doing character comedy not straight line punchline comedy and did you work with Nehemiah Persoff? Oh, sure. What was he like? You know, consummate professional. Nehemiah came in.

He always played, well, I recall, he played a religious Jewish diamond dealer who got ripped off you got a good memory for these episodes oh yes because this one i remember specifically and and you know you he came in and i i my question was what are you doing walking around with thousands of dollars of diamonds in your pocket? And he looked at me, he says, it's the way it's always been done. Tradition. Any minute he was going to break into song.

It was just... It wasn't a question of trying to be funny. It was a question of being good actors. They were all good, good actors who just dug into that cat part and found that motherlode of humor in this situation. If you go to the IMDb page for the Barney Miller show,

and it's a little bit like the love boat in that sense, because you guys were on, what, seven seasons, eight seasons? Eight seasons. Eight seasons. So everybody came through there. And if you go down the list on IMDb and you look at those actors, it's a who's who. Yeah.

Not just comedic actors, but, you know, people like Nehemiah Persaw. Just every kind of character actor of the 20th century did that show. who, not just comedic actors, but people like Nehemiah Persaw, just every kind of character actor of the 20th century did that show. Nicky wasn't a comedic actor. He was just a good actor, but he understood where the comedy was and how to achieve it by playing it properly. And we have to give credit, too, to Max Gale and the great Ron Glass and Gregory Sierra and Barbara Barry. Max Gale, you know, the original in the first pilot was named Kaczynski.

And when Max came in, they gave him the name Wojciechowicz. And honestly, truthfully, it was supposed to be a kind of a Polish joke. That was popular in those days. He was supposed to be the kind of slowish guy who didn't quite get everything. But Max took it and ran with it. So he became the guy who had to learn everything. He had to investigate everything. Had to dig deeper than everybody.

You know what I mean? He used that, and it never became a Polish joke after that. I think to Danny Arnold's credit, he never played to the stereotype. He always played, certainly in Harris and Ron Glass's character's case. Always, right, the intellectual. He was writing a novel. Writing a novel, right. He was very, yeah.

Always. A social climber. Right. Yeah. Very, very, very smart show. And why did it finally end, Hal? Because I've heard you say it was never canceled. It was never canceled.

It was never canceled. It was the next, the last season. Danny wanted to cancel it one season earlier. The problem with sitcoms, especially in those days, I don't know about six writing sources. By that, I mean a writer or a team, whatever. Five or six different writing sources, one through six. The top one was, you know, an associate producer. Well, as soon as your show was a hit, the agent of teams one and two is out trying to get them to be number one of their own, you know, getting their own property. So you're constantly losing from the top down and you're moving the people up finding new writers next season you gotta move

them up and find new three new writing sources and that became difficult for danny um as time went on everybody was writing another version of a barney Miller they had seen, you know, all the new writers. And Danny came to us and he was going to, as I said, cancel it a year earlier because he didn't want to lose the quality of the show. And for some reason, I guess there were contractual reasons he couldn't. So he really suffered through the last season. That was the first season that I ever rejected a script because it was funny but wrong.

It wasn't Barney. I just brought it up to him. I said, you sure you want to do this one? And he read it through. He canceled the week, and we went on, did something else the next week. It was tough. Danny said, I am going to accept,

I'm going to read everybody, anybody who wants to send me a Barney Miller script or anything, I'm going to read it. I'm going to take a month and read everything. College kids, anybody, in order to find new concepts, new ideas, new approaches for the show. He came back a month later and said, it's enough, guys. I don't want to do less than the best.

Sure. And he just closed it. What's the mark of a good show that kind of knows when to get out early rather than late? Yeah. Yeah, there's been so many of those shows that... Eventually they're doing imitations of themselves. Yes. Or worse yet, they get self-serious.

They start to do the... Inspirational... The inspirational episode. The teen pregnancy episode. And they start to have the closing credits with no music to let you know you've seen something really important. Special Barney Miller. So we have to ask, Hal, because our listeners demand it,

does Barney Miller have a favorite Barney Miller episode? I know it's like picking a favorite child. Right. I think the quintessential Barney Miller everybody agrees on was the hash brownies. The hash brownies. Yeah, I knew you'd pick that one. That is great. Everybody has a great moment.

Everybody's got an aria. Yeah. And you know, we, we read the thing. And after the reading, I said to Danny, I said, everybody's got an aria. Everybody's got a moment. Yeah, it was great. Except me. And he looked at me and he said, you're right, but I got gotta have somebody to compare them to i had to be and from there on i knew that's it i'm not gonna have too many punch lines i'm the straight man here uh but uh jack benny did a made a career being a straight man. Oh, sure. So, no kick

after that. I knew my function. Well, we've talked about straight men on this show. The underrated straight men. Oh, like Bud Abbott. Like Bud Abbott. Fantastic when you really watch go back and watch those bits. And here you are for eight years

playing a straight man to all of these loons. Carl Reiner was doing all that. Oh, Carl Reiner. You're not a great example. A great example. Beautiful, yeah. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about just a couple of things,

a couple of wild cards here. You have any memory? Gilbert and I talk about Bob Hope specials on this show. Do you have any memory of doing Bob Hope Lampoon's television with George Burns? Was I on it? You sure were. Okay.

With Mr. T. The thing that got me with all of those shows, quite honestly, was reliance on cue cards bob read every thing you know and you're you're working with an actor and you're looking right at him and saying your lines and he's looking over your shoulder and talking to you over here you know what i mean very difficult bob read everything i'll tell you a quick bob hove story

he had he has the had the uh golf tournament down the desert the bob hove classic and every year i used to do it and every year you know in all those golf tournaments you had to sing for your supper because he had the show and he said listen do a number so um i actually uh one year i get i get down there uh and he said do you mind opening the show i was going to do a clarinet number i said right perfect good great opening number i was terrific let me get out early and go home and uh we start the show he goes out and he does a couple of jokes and right in the middle of it there's a scream a thud turn the lights on bad lights somebody fell off his chair he's lying on the floor and they're pounding on his chest and bob is saying okay

everybody take it easy we have doctors. We'll take care of this. Don't worry about it. I'm sure he's going to be fine. I don't know how long this went on until the door opens. Here comes a gurney and Hope is trying to calm everybody down. They pick the guy up. They put him on the gurney and they wheel him out the door. And as the door is closing, Hope says, okay, everybody,

let's settle down and welcome hal linden oh boy and as i'm walking on and as he's packed he's walking off he says i owe you one kid that's showbiz history hal to have done a bob hope special oh yes with burns yeah here's some other wild cards i don't remember dealing i don't remember dealing with uh oh he's he's supposedly on that one maybe you guys did shot shot separately. Yeah. Do you want to tell us a little bit about working with Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon and Out to Sea? And Donald O'Connor. And Donald O'Connor. I'll tell you Donald O'Connor's story.

We're all ears. We played dance instructors on a boat. Yeah. And Out to Sea. You know that one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. and um out to sea you know that one yeah yeah um you know uh mathau and lemon i just sat in awe and watched them work they were the top you know when it came to that kind of picture, they were top grade.

I just watched them work. Donald O'Connor and I were playing these other dance instructors, and there was a number. The Macarena was popular at the time, so they put a Macarena scene where we're teaching. We're doing the Macarena with the people on the boat, the old ladies who are dancing with us.

Donald O'Connor couldn't get the steps for the Macarena. Wow. I was teaching Donald O'Connor how to do the Macarena. I'm saying, am I living in another world here? That's surreal. There's a lot of fun stuff here, Hal. What about, tell us a little bit about Blacks. When you've been around as long as I have,

this gets longer and longer. Well, you're one of those guests that's done everything and worked with everybody. Tell us a little bit about Blacks Magic, which was the series you did with the great Harry Morgan. Harry Morgan. Harry Morgan played my father, yeah. Do you remember this show, Gil? I have faith.

Hal was a magician, like a Blackstone kind of magician. And Harry Morgan was a con artist. Well, he wasn't a con artist. Wasn't he a con man? No. Or a... No.'t he a con man no or uh no he was very no he was a positive character uh i had um morphed from magic into uh solving crimes oh it was it was it was crime solving using magic techniques.

I see. Like the Bill Bixby show. Yeah, I was just going to say. Yeah, I guess. Levinson and Link were, one of them was a magic fan. And that's how that started. Columbo creators. But working with Harry was a joy.

He was another dear man. Another dear man without an agenda. Just a happy, nice guy. Where do you want to go with this, Gil? There's so much here. Oh, God. Hit me with your best shot. What's that?

Hit me with your best shot. Hit me with your best shot. You turned down a prominent role in saying elsewhere yeah you know that well that happened so quick that was right after as soon as Barney was going off the air and I had office from Broadway and I didn't know if I wanted to get right back into television. I thought I'd rather see what would happen next first. I figured something would come up, and it did eventually.

Series work. That may have been a mistake. I have made many in my quite long career, yes. I was touched by a video online, Hal, in doing the research, and it's you. And we want it too. We want to ask you if you're still touring, if you're still doing. Yes. Still doing the act.

You're still doing the act. Yeah. It's a video of you singing a rather moving Neil Sedaka song called The Hungry Years. Yeah. And you have a little monologue before the song where you're talking about, and it's very interesting. Well, it's, you know, the interesting part, it's a Neil Sedaka song, though we rewrote it. Neil Sedaka's song is about a broken marriage. Oh. If you know the original.

song is about a broken marriage. Oh. If you know the original. It's a marriage that's over and I miss the hungry years when we started out. Right, right, right. But that didn't fit the act because I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about about

nostalgia and remembering. Everybody's got a place that they remember. I think one of the lines is, is there anybody here who never had a bookcase made of bricks and lumber? Right, you're talking about the old, the first apartment.

Yes. And the struggles. The apartment, decorating it it and the struggles we went through and so we uh ken and mitzi welch rewrote the lyric uh to reflect what i was talking about my hungry is because i was married for 52 years i didn't have a broken marriage you know uh so uh it's uh by the way that's why it's not on the on the cast on the uh cd oh because i say because of the rewrite yes it's a rewrite yeah yeah yeah but it's very sweet what you do with it and it's interesting that you have a soft spot still for the for the struggle in spite of all the successes it's true i do miss the hungry years there were things that that i remember going to the supermarket with with two little baby girls and opening up Swiss cheese and giving them each a piece so they could eat it and make

sure I got rid of the package before I got to the front so I wouldn't have to pay for it you know wow yes specifically hungry years they were terrific times because you were trying. You were working so hard to accomplish something. And you do remember going down to Lord & Taylor and looking at the windows at Christmas. That was a big trip with the kids, you know, and Saks Fifth Avenue windows. That was like going to, you know, a Broadway musical.

That's all we could afford. But that was the stuff that kept us together and that we shared. And yes, when it got good, when the times got good, maybe I didn't spend enough time with those kids because I was now had a career, you know. Yeah, I've heard you say that. So that song comes out of truth. Comes out of truth. I do miss the hungry years. A lot of people talk about

psychologically how the most fun is getting there, is looking in the window of the store waiting for it to open before the success actually comes. You think about the early days of your career, Gilbert? Oh, yeah. And it's both a good and bad feeling at the same time. Yes, because you couldn't buy the kids ice cream. You couldn't, you know, take them to a circus.

They couldn't afford it. Yes, it's the bad bad times but it forced us together to make to make moments work that lasted i have four kids and they all talk to me that's nice and you have eight grandkids what more can you ask what more can you ask that's. Should we have Hal take us out with another? Oh, absolutely. Would you favor us with another tune, Hal? What do you got in mind? I don't know.

I was thinking a sweet Georgia Brown, a clarinet tune. Yeah, well. A little too hard? How about a Benny Goodman something or other? Benny's closing number. Oh.... It's called Goodbye. The musical stylings of Mr. Hal Linden. That's great.

Thank you. So this is great. This has been great, Hal. Do you have anything you want to plug? You did the Fantastics this summer. Fantastics we just closed. Yeah, you just closed that one. You're doing something.

Wonderful production at Pasadena Playhouse. I did an American Housewife. Is that the name of it? Yeah. Coming on Christmas. Okay. And I'll be down at the Old Globe in San Diego doing the Steve Martin play, the Picasso at the La Panajou.

You're still working constantly. In January. Yeah. Still working constantly. In January. Yeah. Still working steadily. Good for you. It's the doing that's the reward. You know, I don't have to tell you, I talk to a lot of kids in college, acting students.

I got to tell them the reward is in the doing. And if it's not in the doing, do something else. And you're going to get to New York anytime soon? You're coming back to the Carlisle? Oh, I wish. I wish. That was terrific.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I think they changed their policy. I don't think we're... Did they? But you're still doing the music act. You're still touring. Still doing the concert act.

Songs, stuff I do on Broadway, stuff I wish I did on Broadway. Songs like Hungry Years. Yeah. And you're singing. I mean, on Broadway, you can't really fake it. No. Like you could do on records. That's true.

That's true. And, you know, that was the hard part because I was a band crooner. For all those years as a musician, I was singing in the microphone like that, you know. And then when you get to Broadway, you're on your own. We didn't even have microphones, as I said, in our hair in those days. You had to be able to hit the back wall. That was a concerted effort on my part to open my sound out so that I could sing on Broadway. And it was a good career. I loved that. That's another part of the hungry years.

You know, there's another clip of you, too. Talk about consummate professional. There's a clip online of you in one of the music shows, and you're doing Harold Hill. And you're doing the Music Man so beautifully. And I'm watching this, and I said to my wife, I didn't know Hal Linden was in the Music Man. And when the song was over, you said, I never got the part.

No, that's right. I auditioned for it. I had to learn it for that. It was when Preston did it on Broadway. Actually, I did get the part, but i didn't take it uh oh interesting the yeah it was um uh preston had done it on broadway they're sending out i think a second road company and i had to learn that part and i auditioned for it and they offered it to me but i had just had my first child. It was an infant. And I had to go on the road.

I wasn't about to leave them behind. So it was a question of we had to take a nanny and extra traveling. And we just couldn't come to terms on the salary. So I just couldn't do it. And I never did it. Interestingly. Yeah, but you do it so well. Yes. Thank you. I would urge our listeners, go to YouTube and look at the clips of Hal's one-man show. It's great stuff. Not only the music, but the little monologues, the storytelling. Well, it's, you know, I'm a good singer. Am I a great singer? I'm a good clarinet player.

Am I a great clarinet player? But what I am, or what I have most confidence in, is that I am a good actor. And so putting it together became an acting job, a construction, in a sense, a play construction, knowing how to do what and how to go from song to song and make a narrative out so that the act is not just a concert that is a group of songs.

It's got a beginning, a middle, and an end. That, I think, comes from being in theater for so many years because a character has to have a beginning, a middle, and an end. So when you're designing a character, you're already creating a structure for the character. I'm a big believer in structure. So I do a concert, but it's a structured concert so that hopefully it has meaning.

And if an audience doesn't know me at the beginning, they'll know me at the end. Well, I hope I get a chance to see you live sometime. Tell the Carlisle, bring me back. Okay. We use our influence. Our limited influence. Thanks, Hal.

It's a treat. A pleasure, sir. So, I'm Gilbert Gottfried. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to someone who can and has done everything in show business. He sure has. Hal Linden. Thank you, Hal. A pleasure, sir.