Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 142. Tippi Hedren

Episode Date: February 13, 2017

Gilbert and Frank talk to screen icon and animal activist Tippi Hedren about her absorbing new memoir ("Tippi"), her collaborations with co-stars Marlon Brando and Rod Taylor, her turbulent relationship with Alfred Hitchcock and her fifty-year mission to rescue and protect wild cats. Also, Cary Grant pays a visit, Sean Connery pays a compliment, JFK makes his move and Tippi befriends a raven from "The Birds." PLUS: "The Harrad Experiment"! The legendary Edith Head! Charlie Chaplin saves the day! Young Gilbert checks out "Marnie"! And the (arguably) most dangerous movie ever made! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. Hi, I'm Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Frank Santopadre, and we're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Verderosa. Our guest this week is an actress, activist, and humanitarian who's been working steadily in films and television for the last six decades. TV appearances include Run for Your Life, The Bionic Woman, Heart to Heart, Dream On, Chicago Hope, Arliss, Providence, Cougar Town, and CSI. Among her memorable film roles are

The Harrod Experiment, Pacific Heights, Citizen Ruth, I Heart Huckabees, and the Charlie Chaplin-directed A Countess from Hong Kong, in which she shared the screen with Sophia Loren and Marlon Brando. Her decades-long commitment to the well-being of animals began while filming in Africa way back in 1969, and the experience later inspired her both the Raw Foundation and Shambhala Preserve, an 80-acre habitat which protects and preserves the lives of lions, tigers, and other exotic creatures. But as an actress and performer, she'll always be known to audiences all over the world as the icy blonde Marnie Edgar and Melanie Daniels. In the classic Alfred Hitchcock thrillers, Marnie and the Birds. Her engrossing new memoir is called Tippi. And we're thrilled to have her here on the podcast. Please welcome to the show, Melanie Griffith's mommy and Dakota Johnson's nana, the lovely and talented Tippi Hedren.

Oh, thank you. That's the best introduction I've ever had. Thank you. Well, it's certainly the longest. It is long, too. We could also say she's Dakota Johnson's Bubby. Dakota Johnson's bubby. Dakota Johnson's bubby. Tippi, we know you're a busy lady, and we're very grateful that you took the time to do this.

Oh, it's my pleasure. And we love the book. We both read it. Oh, I'm even more thrilled about that. Now, you started off first as a model. I did. And how did you get into modeling at first? Actually, I was getting off the streetcar in Minneapolis, Minnesota, coming home from high school. And a lady came toward me

and handed me her card and said, would you ask your mother to bring you down to Donaldson's department store? We'd like to have you model in our Saturday morning fashion shows. That's what started the whole thing. It was very dramatic, don't you think? It's kind of like those stories you hear about Lana Turner being discovered at Schwab. Same thing. Yeah. Same thing.

It's wonderful. And so you are a model, a successful model for a while. It's wonderful. And so you were a successful model for a while, and then you made the mistake of having your 31st birthday. Oh, that's about true. I did. And 31 for a model is like 100 in model years. Yes. Yeah, it's a very touching part of the book where you said you were looking for a second

career. And when the call came, you were even thinking about taking a typing class and learning some marketable skills. Well, I had to do something. Right. You know, I thought I don't type. That's kind of a prerequisite to getting a job anywhere except for the dramatic arts. It's an interesting thing.

So you kind of – and it's funny because you had the talent and beauty to take advantage of these opportunities. But the opportunities were coming at you pretty easily at first. Like the modeling thing, they found you. And then out of nowhere, you got a message when you were thinking of getting a second career that a famous director wanted to talk to you. Yes, and that's exactly what happened. And when I got the call, I said, well, who is this person who is interested in me? And then she said, well, would you come down to our office and we'll talk about it? And so I did. I

went down over to the studio and it was there in that office. And I said, well, come on, who is it? in that office. And I said, well, come on, who is it? And because they laid out the contract and what the money would be, everything. And they said, if you agree with all of this, we'll go down and meet Alfred Hitchcock. Wow. Did you meet Lou Wasserman first?

Yes. Yeah, but was that the first meeting? When they still, you say in the book they still wouldn't tell you when your own agent knew and wouldn't tell you no nobody would tell me nobody how bizarre it became it became a game you know it was kind of fun yeah but I wasn't disappointed when I heard the name of course and yeah when they would tests, they were asking you some very strange questions. I thought so, too. Made me kind of mad, actually.

Yeah. What were they asking you? He was trying to get me to, I don't know, show some kind of anger or whatever. You know, I'm sure that's what it was. So it's kind of like an acting test to see if they could. Oh, I think so. Yeah, get your goat and see what happened. I think that's what they were doing. Yeah.

Like they were phrasing it like, you've had a lot of male friends in your career and stuff like that. Yeah, it was really creepy. Wasn't that Hitchcock's lawyer that they sent in originally to meet with you and ask all those inappropriate questions? Oh yeah, that was, yes. And that was actually after I was in, had been signed to the contract. And you know, and this man really made me angry. In fact, I walked out of the room and slammed the door. I've never slammed a door hard during my life. Wow. I was so upset with the accusations. Right, right, right. But it was a seven-picture contract or a seven-year contract? It was seven years. Seven years. Yes.

Yeah. And so your first movie then was The Birds. It was. Yes. And That's taking on a lot for a brand new actress. Of course. It's tough enough dealing with people, but then you throw in all those birds and it becomes something else. But before that, they brought Martin

Balsam in. They sent Martin Balsam across the country to do a screen test with you? Yes. I mean, there weren't any hollywood who could have done that to flow martin fly martin balsam in from new york and and they had a hitchcock had seen you in a tv commercial yes it was a seago commercial you know the the diet drink And I think I weighed all of 100 pounds when I did the commercial. But it was a storyline. There was a story to it. I'm walking down the street and this little boy whistles at me and I turn and smile at him.

And it was really very cute. So anyway, that's the commercial that Hitchcock, I think it was Mrs. Hitchcock who saw it. On the Today Show. I don't really know think it was Mrs. Hitchcock who saw it. On the Today Show. I don't really know where it was being shown. Yeah, get the girl. That's kind of what it was. Yeah, interesting. And then shortly into the film, my favorite part of the book, of course. Hitchcock attacked you.

Well, he didn't. He didn't actually. Those are very strong words. He didn't attack me. He just made it known of what his intentions were, and I didn't appreciate it. And I rather stormed out of the room. It's interesting in the book, too. You talk about when the mystery was starting to be revealed, your agent wouldn't tell you who it was, Lou Wasserman wouldn't tell you who it was,

and then you finally met Hitchcock, and you describe him in the book as shorter and rounder than you had pictured or that you had imagined. rounder than you had that you had pictured or that you had imagined yeah actually well you know we all have that that vision of him standing in the door with that profile right the famous his tv commercials yeah you also describe in the book as remarkably unattractive which gave me a chuckle well how would you describe him of course and I love that he told you off-color limericks, too. I didn't know he had a penchant for that. He would tell anybody all those nasty limericks. On the set, he'd just come out with all of these terrible limericks,

and everybody would laugh, and I didn't think many of them were very funny. Yeah. And one time he was in a car with you on the way to a premiere, and he grabbed you and started kissing you. Well, thankfully, we were at a stop. In fact, we were just—when he did it, because I opened the door and practically fell out of the car. and practically fell out of the car. But we had just pulled up to this studio, you know, where all the guards are and all of that, and he pulled this trick.

And I, you know, just got the door open and literally I almost fell out of the car. It was embarrassing. It was very embarrassing. I can imagine. out of the car. It was embarrassing. It was very embarrassing. I can imagine. So when you let it be known that you are not at all interested in him,

what did he say to you? He really didn't have any opportunity because I really didn't have any more meetings with him. I heard in your book you say that at one point he said, I'll ruin your career. Yeah, he did say that. He did say that, and I said, do what you have to do, and I sailed out the door. And two weeks later, I got the call from Charlie Chaplin to do The Countess of Hong Kong. Wow.

With Sophia Loren and Marlon Brando. So, nyeh-nehnyan-a-nyan. And in birds, it's like a horror thing. I mean, where in real life, they were throwing live birds at you, flinging them at you, and they're pecking at your skin. And did you think, like, this was also Hitchcock's revenge? Was, like, because he was angry that you didn't accept his advances? Uh, I don't know that it was that. I, you know, it sounded worse than it was with the birds being thrown at me

because I really was, I apparently was very good at keeping them at bay. I'm trying to think of the timing of all of this. Yeah, it's been a long time. It has been a long time. Yeah. Yeah. Because pretty much when I said I was through, I was finished. It was after Marnie when all that happened.

Yeah, you had to endure a lot in two films. Oh, I didn't endure anything. I didn't put up with anything, so I didn't have to endure it. I just meant the stress and the, um, yeah, that is a stress is never good. I just want to go back to, if I can, and this is, this is a fascinating part of the book, Tippi, is that you, you, you, your initial meeting with him, you never discussed the work. You weren't at this point, sure why he wanted to sign you. And then they put you through the paces. You got a vocal coach. You went to meet with the famous Edith Head. What was she like, by the way? Oh, she was. That's an icon. She was a wonderful, wonderful woman. And I had the good fortune of

becoming, we became very good friends. And it was not only awesome to watch her work, and one of the things I really appreciated about her was how she was able to twist the director's mind over to thinking the way she did about the clothes and what should happen with the gowns and the dresses or the costume. And the studio was also, I mean, here you're going through the training now. You've got the vocal training. They've introduced you to Edith Head. You're getting a wardrobe. And the studio was somewhat lukewarm to the idea of using an unknown actress in this film?

Yes, they were. They were. And I thought, well, why wouldn't they? They're putting in somebody who's never, you know, really done a film ever before. Why should we give this role to an unknown completely? this role to an unknown completely who, uh, so I had,

um, I had my work cut out for me and I said, I am going to succeed. I'm going to do the, I'm going to be putty in the hands of that director. Mm hmm. And you, you love both your leading men in those two movies, uh, Robert Taylor, a rod those two movies, Robert Taylor.

Rod Taylor. Rod Taylor, I mean. Rod Taylor and Sean Connery. Yes. Oh, they were fabulous. They were absolutely fabulous. They were good friends, consummate actors. It couldn't have been better.

Yeah, we're big Rod Taylor fans, and we just lost him not long ago, maybe a year or two years ago. It was two years ago. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was very sad. I'll tell you, it's a great performance on your part, given that it's your first film, and you're working with these crazy props, and you're working with animals,

and you're going through this tumult off screen. Yeah, it was a lot to handle, really. It really was. A lot of stuff going on. And at one point where he filmed it for like something like five days of you getting hit in the face with live birds. With those birds, yeah. We started on Monday morning and Friday afternoon. One of the birds, because they had me lying right by the door,

and they had the birds tied to me, and one of them jumped from my shoulder, and the claw got me way too close to my eye. And I just got all those birds off of me and just sat there and just cried from sheer exhaustion. Oh, poor thing. Poor thing. Listen, get some water, bandages, and I have to set it quickly. Bandages?

It's terrible. Yeah, it's a touching part of the book. They all left me alone. Yeah. They all left me alone. Isn't that cute? Was Cary Grant visiting the set that day? Cary Grant came during the filming. It wasn't that day.

It was another time that, you know, they were hurling birds at me. Oh, God. Hurling birds at you. Hurling birds at me. And he said, I think you're the bravest woman i've ever met and i said well i don't i'm not sure that's the name for it and when you broke down crying after the bird almost poked your eye out i at the whole stage everybody left i heard they did they left me isn't that i thought that was interesting yeah they did and i managed to and I was so exhausted after that week.

I hardly remember driving home and I got into my bed and the nanny for Melanie, you know, my daughter, Melanie Griffith, the nanny couldn't wake me. So she called the doctor. And the nanny couldn't wake me, so she called the doctor. And the doctor came, and Hitchcock came as well. And the doctor examined me and talked to me a little. And he looked over at Hitchcock and he said, What are you trying to do, kill her? Wow. Wow. Wow.

I don't think that's the case, but it was a thought. And speaking of your co-star, Suzanne Plachette became a friend for life, too. Oh, she did indeed, yes. And it was such a sadness that she became so ill and left us. Yes, and it was such a sadness that she became so ill and left us. She was, she, you know, it was she who said, Tippi, it isn't always like this. Yeah. What I was going through with Hitchcock.

Good comedic actress, Suzanne Plachette. Oh, she was a fine actress on every level. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yes. Okay, we're going to take a quick moment and we're going to talk about one of our sponsors. And now back to the show. I remember, this is just a personal memory, going with my parents in Brooklyn. I was a little boy. I went with my parents in Brooklyn to see Marnie.

And I remember as a kid, I called the movie Marty. Marty. Not to be confused with Marty. And I called the lead actor Sean Connery. Nice work. Very classy. You still like Marnie. I read an interview with you, Tippi, and that's one of your favorites of your films.

It is. Yeah. It is. It was an incredible character to, you know, have the privilege of playing. And, yes, it is my favorite role. And it's a shame that what happened between you and Hitchcock, I mean, you say in the book that at some point he just stopped caring about the film. I think he did. Yeah. I think he did. Yeah. It's unfortunate. But it is a shame. It is so tragic because, you know, when I first went under contract with him and we were doing The Birds and

and Marnie, we worked so well together. I would, it was just, he was an amazing director and I was very fortunate in having his, his being, you know, my first director actually. And Alma was involved too, right? She was helping. Yes. Yes. Yes. So it was, it was very heartbreaking when, when all this kind of fell apart. And what happened with the phone booth scene, too, and the birds? There's something you talk about in the book that I never knew, that there was supposedly shatterproof glass. It was supposed to be shatterproof glass. And when the gull from the top of the studio, it was on a thin wire.

And when it hit the glass, it just shattered over. I mean, it was awful. They spent the afternoon picking shards of glass out of my, with one side of my face. Wow. You know, but that is what is called an accident. Right. You know, but that is what is called an accident. Right.

And do you think that Hitchcock actually did try to ruin or damage your career afterwards? Oh, I think he probably did. I'm just keeping me under contract and his intention was not to put me in any other films. So I think that was what his intention was. However, by some fluke, I got out of the contract. It was just all of a sudden. They called me and said, Tippi, you're out of the contract. And I didn't even question.

I was just so thrilled to be out of that that I don't really know what happened. I wish somebody would tell me what happened. It's funny because we had former child star Billy Mummy on. Right, from Lost in Space. And he worked as a kid. He worked with Alfred Hitchcock, and he hated him to this day. He wasn't kind to Billy Mummy. From what I understand about Hitchcock, he didn't tolerate children well.

He did not. No. Yeah. They weren't necessary. Did you ever, and I'm sorry if this is a personal question, Tippi, did you ever confront his wife? Did you ever confront Alma? I mean, you had a relationship with her. I did.

She was aware of what was going on. Oh, sure she was. Yeah, in fact, one day we ended up at the elevator. I remember the scene so well because it had such an effect on me. I remember the scene so well because it had such an effect on me. And she looked at me and she said, Tippi, I'm so sorry that you have to go through all of this. And I looked at her and I said, but Alma, you could stop it. And her eyes just sort of glazed over and she turned and walked away.

Wow. So that was just part of it. She just knew he would be obsessed with these different actresses. Yes, apparently. Yeah. I saw the movie. It's all very sick, isn't it? Yes. Yes. Yeah, it really is. And he had this obsession with blonde actresses. So they say. Seem to be. Yeah. How much, I saw the picture with Sienna Miller and Toby Jones, the girl, how much of that was accurate, in your opinion? Oh, it was very accurate. In fact, when they

wanted to do that film, they called me because they had to get my approval to do it. And I said, well, I will approve it if you let me be involved with the whole screening of it, the writing of it, and all of it.

So that was quite accurate. Did he, sometimes you read things on IMDb, Tippi, and you don't know if they're factual or not. Were you up for a role in Bedtime Story, in the Brando picture? That's what they said. I know there was supposedly a Truffaut offer. Francois Truffaut. Yeah, there was something that Truffaut was involved in. But, oh gosh, that was so long ago.

Was it Fahrenheit 451? Yeah, I don't know. It might have been. Yeah, something that Hitchcock It might have been. Yeah, something that Hitchcock put the kibosh on, you suspect. So tell us about Countess from Hong Kong, which is another, I mean, you are the only actor, as I was telling Gilbert before you came in, to work, to be directed by both Alfred Hitchcock and Charlie Chaplin. Yes. Which is a pretty cool thing. It's a wonderful distinction. Yes, it is. So it's like once you're out of your contract with Hitchcock, of old people, Charlie Chaplin.

Isn't that awesome? Yeah. I thought, wow, bingo. We've done 137 of these episodes, Tippi, and I think we only had maybe one or two people that worked with Chaplin. A character actor named Marvin Kaplan worked with Chaplin, but I can't think of anybody else.

You would be the second person. Yeah, well, he was amazing. Marlon Brando and Sophia Loren were in the film as well. And Sophia was wonderful when she enjoyed Charlie. And Marlon Brando wanted to quit. He tried to get out of the contract. Because the way Charlie directed, which I loved, he acted out all of our parts.

And then he'd say, all right, now you do it now. Amazing. And, well, can you imagine Marlon Brando handling that? No. No, you can't. And he wanted to get out of the contract. And, of course, he couldn't get out of it. And he spent a miserable couple of weeks.

But you yourself were impressed by Chaplin, you say in the book. Oh, yes. Yes, I was. And you said he did everything on the movie. Wrote it, directed it, the music. He did. Yes. Yes, I was. And you said he did everything on the movie, wrote it, directed it, the music. He did. Yes. It was just the whole thing was Charlie Chaplin. Did you have a pinch me moment at any point, Tippi, that you're thinking, you know, I'm a small town girl from Minnesota and now I'm being directed by, I'm in a movie with Charlie Chaplin and Marlon Brando.

Oh, I've had so many pinch me moments about that that I'm black and blue still. I'll bet. Yeah. And, of course, needless to say, Brando came on to you too. Oh, well, why not? Why not? I mean, he's a big star. And I just said, you know, something, Marlon, I don't think we're going to be doing that.

That was the end of that. Oh, well. It wasn't my first rodeo, you know. Yeah. Interesting that you guys, and I saw an interview with you. You said you never had any dalliances with your leading men. You respected them. You liked them. Yes, I did. And I wanted to interview with you. You said you never had any dalliances with your leading men. You respected them. You liked them.

Yes, I did. And I wanted to keep it that way. Very professional. Well. Here's an interesting turning point in your career. You go off to Africa to make a couple of films. And your life changed in a very, very dramatic way. It was sort of like destiny.

It really was. The film that I did there was working with a lion. And also just being in Africa is a monumental experience. You were in Zimbabwe originally and yes, yeah, yes. Uh, and, uh, it was extremely exciting and wonderful. And, um, and that's where I, you know, got this, this, um, feeling about the lions and all of the animals in the wild and, and the problems they have with encroaching civilization, sport hunting, and, of course, worst of all, poaching,

and how many of the animals were disappearing just because of those horrible situations. So getting back to L.A., we met a lion who was a working lion. Right. And he would come over to the house every now and then and hang out with us. It was bizarre. And we'd take photographs of him at my house. And it became a rumor that I had this lion living in our house with us, which is not true. Um, he'd come and visit. Yes, but he was not living at our house. I mean,

I want to straighten that out with everybody right now, but it was, it was just so amazing to have this lion as a friend. And, um,husband and I became involved with doing a film about the animals in the wild, and we chose the big cats as our movie stars. Right. And thus begins the odyssey. Yeah. That's a romantic notion, isn't it? Well, I'm struck by a couple of things. One is the trainer told you that the animal could love you at one minute and just turn inexplicably. Well, it's not turning. It's just that's who they are. Right. That's their nature.

They go back to being a lion. Yes. Isn't that amazing? Go ahead. Yes. Isn't that amazing? Were you? Go ahead. Before you know where my head is every second.

Before we go to we'll get back to Raw in a minute. He's going into the gutter again. Yes. I apologize in advance. Oh, boy. President Kennedy. Oh, that's one of the things in the book. Yeah, that's one of the things in the book. Yes. That's interesting.

Yeah. Well, I was over in the south of France. Actually, I was on a trip around the world, which I did because my then husband was in the Army, and he was stationed in Japan, and he was going to be there for a while. So I was going to meet him there, and so I made the arrangements. And while I was dealing with the traveling tickets, you know, with the plane, I thought, wow, I'm halfway around the world. Why don't I just come home the other half and go through Europe and all of that and Asia and Europe?

So that's exactly what I did. And so I was in the south of France, and we met Mr. Kennedy. And he was very charming, as why not? He should be. A senator at that point. He was a senator. Yeah. Uh-huh.

And, you know, it was just a lovely afternoon. And so after that afternoon, I went back to my hotel, and I was going to have dinner with friends. And I received a phone call saying that Senator Kennedy is downstairs. He has sent a car for you. Wow. You, you know what, I have plans for this evening. Tell him, thank you very much. But I have, I have by evening planned already, but I thought, wow, what, you know, how, what an assumption to make, you know, that somebody would just be ready there and go off.

Isn't that interesting? Good for you, Tippi. Yeah. Well, I've had a good Lutheran background. Good Lutheran parents, and we had rules and regulations. My wife is Lutheran and also Finnish roots, similar to your own. She read your book too and related to that. Oh yes, yeah. But I just, I have to get back to the lions visiting your house in Sherman Oaks and neighbors asking you if there was a lion living

there. I mean, it's really one of the funny parts of the book. Oh, yeah, because we had our backyard was the swimming pool and, you know, all of that. And, of course, he'd go out there and hang out for a while. And one day he started a roar. And, you know, that sound carries for miles. Imagine. I mean, it really does. And the phone rang and this neighbor said, Tippy, I'm having the strangest things happening.

I'm hearing a lion roaring. And I made up some kind of an excuse about, oh, no, no, no, that was a motorcycle out in front. I thought it sounded like a lion, too, but no, no, no, it's just a motorcycle out in front. I thought it sounded like a lion too, but no, no, no. It's just a motorcycle roving up. But you can't stop that roaring. You know, there's no way you can say, shh, you know, don not turning vicious or anything, it just being a cat, like if you play with a cat, it'll hit you with its paw. And I'm thinking, so sometimes maybe if they're just playing with you, they're hitting you with their paw, but their paw has a lot of power in it. Yes, it does. And claws that could tear you in half.

Oh, absolutely. Well, fortunately, the trainer was around all the time. The lion's name was Neil, and he was definitely a gentleman. He was really a very, very well-trained animal, and he was a contended animal as well. He was an amazing—to meet an animal like that and to have a relationship that was safe was a great gift to me. Yeah. There's a fun story of him jumping on the table and helping himself to the – what was it? The roast or the chicken?

Oh, yeah. At your house? we Americans have during the year. And we were having dinner, and it was a special time. I don't know whether it was Easter. It was something like that. And we wanted to get photographs of Neil, and there was a landing above the dining area, and we put Neil up there. And, of course, we were having meat at the dinner.

And all of a sudden, I guess Neil just thought, I'm in for that. And so he jumped over the railing and landed on the table. And of course, the whole tipped over and, um, all, I was at the head of the table and the table was an oval and it tipped over and, uh, all, everything, the wine glasses, the candles, the plates, everything came down to my side. This is a full-grown lion at this point. It was a full-grown lion. Wow. And he just made his point that he wanted to get some of that dinner as well. I learned about these cats reading your book, and it's fascinating too. I think maybe it was the same visit to your house at which point where Neil was acting up

and the trainer had to take him into the kitchen and says, you know, he has to win. The trainer makes himself tall and tries to intimidate the cat. And there's something in the book. Explain that to our listeners because it's fascinating. Yeah. When you are working with an animal like that, you have to have a really, really good, solid relationship with that animal, and that animal has to understand that he is not the power that the human is. And they got into a fight in our kitchen. That's amazing.

Yeah, and all of a sudden the trainer slammed the door shut. We had two different doors to go to the kitchen. Both doors slammed. And then, oh, this ruckus was going on in there. And then finally it died down. And as they were walking out the door and out the front door. I was kind of right behind them. And I heard the trainer say to Neil, the lion, why did you act like that?

They're very nice people. I got a whole different look at that whole relationship. I thought, does Neil understand what he said? It was just amazing. Talking to him like a child. Yeah. And is that whole thing kind of like the alpha male? You know, like with dogs or a lot of animals like that,

you have to show that you're the superior. You're the one in charge, the leader. Yeah, that certainly is what you attempt to do with any of the great cats. Yeah, the trainer says in the book that he had to win that showdown because if he'd lost it, he had to end the relationship with the cat. That's right. Because he would never feel safe again. He would never feel like he was in control again. Yes. And then we have to ask you about Roar, which is absolutely fascinating, as I was just alluding to before. And it's interesting because at the time, if I, and correct me if I'm wrong about this, at the time you and your husband

who made the film, you were, you were trying to show, there was a part of you at least that was trying to show that humans and these cats could coexist, could live together. But over the years, do I have this right? You came to change your position on that? I definitely changed my position on it. They are apex predators. They have instincts that can never be removed. They are apex predators. They have instincts that can never be removed.

And, you know, all the people who work with the animals, with the lions and tigers and all of that, it's a very specific relationship that they have with those animals. And they always, the human always has to win. And it's a precarious business to be in, to say the least. So you and your husband at the time embarked on this, what became an 11-year odyssey to bring this story, this passion project of yours to the screen, which was later called Roar, but it was finally completed. And I have to tell our listeners, I mean, it's fascinating on a lot of levels. I think it is, too. Yeah.

I mean, not just for the obvious reasons, not just for the way it was sold. And it recently was in the South by Southwest Film Festival in 2015. I mean, it was a little bit, in a sense, it was rediscovered. But the injuries on the set, Jan de Bont, who went on to direct Speed and Twister, was injured, required 220 stitches to put his head back together. But that's fascinating on one level. stitches to put his head back together. But that's fascinating on one level.

But to watch it and to see you guys just coexisting with these animals that were untrained. Yes, they were. Because you couldn't find enough trainers in California. No, we couldn't. It's a fascinating piece of work. I mean, it's terrifying. No, because all the trainers had the thinking of, well, I'm not going to let my cat work with another cat. It doesn't know they'd kill each other. And, you know, so all of the animals had to be introduced very, very carefully. It was a horribly dangerous time for us.

Yeah. It really was. It was just crazy. And you were, was it cherries, the tiger that bit you? It was a lioness. A lioness. Yeah, she got me in the back of the head. Right.

Yeah. And Melanie also got hurt. Melanie did as well. She, but, you know, we survived. But it was crazy. I don't know. To me, after the first injury, I would have been out of there. I think a lot of people would have been.

Well, you know, I understand your thinking there completely. It is a wild—I heard a film critic describe it as saying it makes Apocalypse Now look like a children's birthday party. I mean, which is a great line. I watched it. I couldn't tear myself away from it. It's kind of like the real Jurassic Park in a way. Well, it kind of was that way. I mean, it's a family film.

Yes, it is a family film. Yes, it is a family film. And I hope the whole audience got the idea. Do not do this. Yeah. Yeah. You're very brave. I mean, Melanie was brave.

How old was Melanie? She was a teen? Yeah, she was in her teens. Yeah. And you and your husband got gangrene? No. No, no, no. No, I did. Oh, you and your husband got gangrene? No. No, no, no.

No, I did. Oh, you did? I did. He didn't. I did. It was on my right leg. I still have a scar from it. Wow.

But there are two different kinds of gangrene. I learned all about this. There are two different kinds of gangrene. There's the black gangrene and the green gangrene. And what you want is the black one because that won't isn't you don't have to have your limb cut off, which is was really good news for me. Yeah. And what was it like when the doctor said that word gangrene? It's chilling.

It's it's frightening because this is a word that we have all heard and and not in good situations how many animals were there over a hundred animals in the film i think close to that yeah sure and an elephant yeah two elephants. We had two elephants, yes. Right. Right. Timbo and Kura. Right. Was it Timbo that injured you? Oh, he didn't injure me. I fell off of him.

I see. And on my way down, my leg got caught between his tusk and his trunk. And when he put his trunk down, my leg was in between. That's what the problem was. Right. So, I mean, and there's so much in the book that happens. I mean, there were floods.

There were, I mean, the things that befell the making of this movie, you could write a book about. I think you did a TV special or a documentary about the making of it. Yes, we did. It's absolutely fascinating. I urge our listeners to check it out. It's disturbing. And at the same time, it's beautiful in a way because you really see these animals having their run of the place. You know, the wonderful thing that came out of this movie

was the Shambhala Preserve. Yes. And where we rescue big cats that have been born in the United States to be sold as a pet or for financial gain. And, you know, it got so bad that I was saying, why doesn't the United States have laws against these animals being born? They're apex predators. Why are they being born to be sold as a pet? And I put a bill together and took it to my congressman and he said, it'll never fly, Tippy, because it's such a big business. And I said, well, we've got to try.

And I got the bill passed. Oh, congratulations. It's called Big Cats and Public Safety Protection Act. And I think it was 2003 that it was passed. And since then, the numbers of big cats being born and to be sold as pets has diminished tremendously. That's wonderful. So I'm very proud of that. And tell us, and we'll do this again just before we wrap, but tell us how people can support both the Roar Foundation and also Shambhala. Both the Roar Foundation and also Shambhala. Oh, well, you can look us up on our website, which is Shambhala, S-H-A-M-B-A-L-A dot org, O-R-G.

And, you know, it's the national debt to keep the place going because those cats are not inexpensive. They eat a lot. They eat a lot and it's all meat, you know, and beef. And we have a 10,000 pound freezer, which we keep. Incredible. Yeah, it's a huge, huge thing we do. I hope you'll come out and visit us. I would love to. I don't know if Gilbert will probably wait in the car. Yeah. No, you'll be perfectly safe, Gilbert. Do not fear. Brag a little bit about your good work, Tippi. Do you have any idea of how many animals you've rescued in the time you've been doing this? You know, I don't, you know, something I don't know,

and I don't really even know how I could find out. Really? Yeah. Because there had been so many that, and so many of them were in the movie and, and not all of them, we couldn't use all of them because they were too dangerous. You know, so we became literally a rescue during the filming of this movie. I learned something else about you in the book, too. I did not know that Tippi—your real name is Natalie. Nathalie. Nathalie.

With an H. Nathalie. So Tippi is what? It's a nickname? My daddy just couldn't call me Nathalie. He just couldn't do it. So he started calling me Tupsa, which is a Swedish term of endearment. Tupsa. T-U-P-S-A. And then it kind of came around to being Tippy,

Tips and then Tippy. And yeah, and that works. Yes. I can't, I can't. It served you. Nathalie is, I don't think I am the Nathalie type. I can't even say it. Isn't it funny the twists and turns of life takes because you talk in the book about how you just, you wanted to be a figure skater. Oh, desperate. I still do. There's still time. There's still time.

And you became a world famousfamous actress and animal activist. It's a strange journey. It is. Life does that to you, and I'm thrilled for my life. I love my life. I love what I've been able to go. I love the traveling that I've been able to do and the people that I've met. And the best part of it is the Shambhala Preserve, of course,

with them. We brought up Melanie. Let's talk about her a little bit, if we can. You said you never encouraged her to be an actress. No, I've never encouraged anybody to be anything because I think it should be the choice of that person of what they want to do and what they want to be. And it was a surprise to me when Melanie said that she wanted to become an actress. And she's had a wonderful career. I really was surprised. Oh, indeed. Yes.

And she at one point got married and you were you were against it. She got married to who's best known for Miami Vice, Don Johnson. Yes, she did. Well, first of all, they were they were both too young to to be getting married. And it I was just saddened by it more than anything. Yeah. And then it didn't work out. It didn't. But you have a wonderful granddaughter.

Yeah. Indeed, I do. Yes, and now she's a big star. Dakota is a huge star. Yes. So it's a whole acting dynasty. It really is a dynasty. It's like the Barrymores now.

I have created a dynasty. That's a nice thing to say. I have created a dynasty. Melanie is, you know, she's had a wonderful career and not just, I mean, people talk about working girl. Obviously, she's very good in a film you're into, Pacific Heights. Yes. I'm just a blink in it.

Yeah. That's all right. And she's also in a film. She was very young at the time and it's a favorite of mine. And that's Night Moves. Oh, Night Moves with Hackman. Isn't that a good one? Yes.

Yeah. Oh, she's done amazing things. yeah she's done amazing things and she's she's one of the best moms I've ever I've ever encountered she has been so terrific

with her children that's nice something wild is another performance I like a lot with her and Jeff Daniels yes and most importantly she was on Hollywood Squares with me. There you go. Was she?

I didn't know that. Yeah. Are you serious? She was on Hollywood Squares with me. Why didn't she tell me she was going to be on that? That's fun. I didn't know. Oh, yeah.

When was this? Oh, God. When was those years that I was on that show? What do you remember about some of these projects? I'm looking for my list here, Tippi. You're very funny on Dream On, a show I like. Oh, wasn't that fun? Yes.

You played Wendy Malick's mother. I did, and that was fun. And Wendy Malick is a fun lady, too. What do you remember? Now, we're asking you to go way back here, and we'll wrap it up soon, but this is fun for us. We love Ben Gazzara. Do you remember about making Run for Your Life with Ben Gazzara?

Yeah, I do. One of Gilbert's favorite actors. Yeah. I always enjoyed him. Yeah, and he's a wonderful actor. Great actor. Gone now a number of years. Yeah. I always enjoyed him. Yeah. And he's a wonderful actor. A great actor. Gone now a number of years. Yeah.

Which is sad. That was one of those. We did a whole show on those running shows along with the fugitive. Oh, yeah. Because Run for Your Life was kind of a fugitive knockoff. There were a lot of them in those days. You worked with so many great actors too over the years. I did.

Yeah, it's been a hell of a run. I think so. You're fond of a movie you made called I Woke Up Early the Day I Died. Well, just that title is great, isn't it? Yeah, and then you're in Citizen Ruth and I Heart Huckabees, two movies I like a lot.

Yeah, I do too. I've heard strange stories of the director. Oh, David Russell. Yeah. David O. Russell. I've heard some horror stories about him. Really? Yeah.

Oh, tell me. I haven't heard any. You had no problem with him then? No. I think he had a couple of run-ins with George Clooney and Lily Tomlin, rather famously. Yeah. Yeah. We're not to tell tales out of school, but what the hell.

And could you talk a little bit, Tippi, just tell us anything you remember about The Harrod Experiment, which is another wild movie. Well, The Harrod Experiment, that's where we met Melanie and I met Don Johnson. Right, right. That's how that whole thing happened. But you and James Whitmore and an interesting cast, Gilbert would appreciate. Ted Cassidy was in it. Wow.

Yes. Do you remember him? That man was tall. Yes. And a young Bruno Kirby is in it. Oh, geez. And Fred Willard and Billy Saluga. The ace trucking.

I know this is like weird memory lane, Tippi, but this is the kind of stuff we talk about on this show. And Billy Saluga. We love character actors. Billy Saluga, wasn't he, well, you can call me Ray. Yeah. And you can call me Jay. That's right.

But you don't have to call me Johnson. That's the guy. And even by today's standards, a bold movie, The Harrod Experiment. Yeah, it was. And we should get Saluga on this show. We'll have to get him. And one last thing about Hitchcock is, and I found this kind of touching in the book too, is that for everything that you went through and this mistreatment, if you will,

And this mistreatment, if you will, or this, at the very least, unprofessionalism. You did feel, you did attend his service. I did. Yeah, I mean, the man was one of the most prominent director, producer directors in the business. You know, the fact that he made my life a little bit uncomfortable and that had to be straightened out, but that is legion. I mean, if you just said, I'm not going to have anything to do with anybody who has pulled those cards, of course, you probably wouldn't have too many friends in the world, which is kind of sad. But nevertheless, it was just a sad thing that happened that I didn't want to be involved in.

And I solved that problem immediately. and I solved that problem immediately. And after Marnie and after you parted company, after the film wrapped, you never spoke a word again? I don't believe we did. No. Did you stay in touch with Alma and his daughter at all? No. Not at all.

And after the divorce, your daughter's divorce, years later Don Johnson went over to you and apologized to you, I think. Yes, he did. Yes. Well, that's sweet. Yeah.

Well, Don is and his family are close to Melanie and her family. It's a really good thing. They're good friends, and it's really wonderful. How do you feel about being the matriarch of an acting dynasty? Good. I feel very good about it.

It's a cool thing. It is cool. The idea that your granddaughter, aside from other movies, was in like the most talked about movie of Fifty Shades of Grey. Like that's one of those movies everybody was discussing. Yeah. She's quite good in it too. It seems like it's a difficult role. Well, she's an extremely good actress. She's quite good in it, too. It seems like it's a difficult role. Well, she's an extremely good actress. She's excellent. I haven't seen the movie. I haven't seen it yet.

Okay. I'm going to see it one day. Oh, it's one of those. I haven't seen it yet, and that's okay. Well, we have to plug the book again because it's a it's an engrossing read tippy a memoir and and it's it's quite a ride i i will urge our uh you know of course if our listeners haven't seen the birds or marnie shame on you yeah absolutely yeah where have you been where have you been and did you draw those little birds on the book cover? Well, you know, when I first did my first movie and I went to one of those, I don't know whether it was a screening or something, but all the fans are out there and they want your autograph and all of that.

And on one of them, I put a bird. I mean, just that little, just the two wings, you know. And didn't think anything more about it. And the next time I went to one of those events and the fans were there. And again, the autographing. I signed my name. And he said, where are the birds? Apparently, it just traveled right through all the fans.

And so now I have to put the birds on. I have to. The pressure's on, though. I mean, my signature isn't my signature without the birds. They're all over the book. They're on the cover. They're starting each paragraph. There was one bird that you got close to that you had, I mean. Buddy. Yeah, Buddy. Yeah. Was he a crow? He was a very that you had, I mean, not buddy. Yeah.

Was he a very handsome? No, a Raven, a Raven. No, we didn't have any crows in there. We had all Ravens. It was just beautiful. And he became such a good friend. He'd come hopping. He was the, uh, he was the, the bird that, uh, Ray Berwick, the late Ray Berwick, who was the bird trainer, would use for all of the close-up things that had to be done. And Buddy would come hopping up into my dressing room, and he'd hop up onto my dressing table and throw all the makeup around, and then he'd sit on my shoulder, and then he'd hop onto the top of my head, and we became very, very close. It was a really sweet relationship.

I liked him. Yeah. Given everything you went through, can you watch those films? Is it too painful now? Can you sit and watch The Birds of Marnie? No, no, no. Of course I can. Yeah.

Yeah. Of course. Good for you. We have a friend. He's a comedian, Tippi, named Mario Cantone. I don't know if you're familiar with his work. Did you ever watch the show Sex and the City? I did, yes. I have seen several. Okay, so he was Charlotte's friend, the wedding planner.

Ah. Anyway, the point I'm getting to is he does an absolutely wonderful routine about the birds, which I'm going to send you. Oh, how cute. Oh, please. That you you're gonna eat up with a spoon okay it's about a five minute scene uh that he does from he did a one-man show on broadway about the birds and it's so specific to the movie wonderful and if you've never seen it i think you'll love it i'd like to have it thank you and i just got a flashback with marnie that the gimmick in the movie was that when you'd see red, the whole screen would turn red. Yeah.

Wasn't that good? Yeah. Did Sean Connery pay you a compliment? Do I have this right, that he said that? He did. Yes, he did. I do deep research. Yeah, you do.

What did he say? What did he say? Can you share it with us? He was being interviewed, you know, and I guess he was asked the question, who do you think are the best actors in Hollywood? And he said, well, I think they're all kind of, well, pretty much the same, except maybe to be Hetron. And I have that little thing framed. Wow. I've got it framed. Praise from Caesar, as they say.

Yes. How nice. I was very honored. You're not from Los Angeles, Miss Edgar. Insurance is only pronounced insurance in the South, and that's where you're from. Where? Around here? You're a cold, practiced little method actress of a liar. I can't help it. It would appear not. I don't mean that. I mean, I wasn't born in California. I was born in Richmond, Virginia. My father deserted us when I was a baby. My mother and

I lived in Richmond until I was seven. And then we moved to California, where Mother could get work in the airplane factories. That's the truth. I swear it. Well, Mr. Gottfried, we'll let this lady get on to her many commitments, but we're going to plug the book again. Plug the book. Oh, thank you. Tippy a memoir. It's terrific.

And there's a great picture of you on the back holding, I don't know if you can see. Is that Buddy? That's Buddy. That's Buddy on your arm that's him that's him do you want to give a plug to your um charities again oh i do i if uh uh you will look up uh shambala.org s-h-a-m-b-a-l-a.org and find out when the shambhala Preserve is open. And if you will send us all your money. We're a nonprofit organization, and with all those that meet those lions and tigers eat, it's no wonder it's nonprofit. How far from L.A. is the preserve? Oh, it depends on the traffic, but generally, we say it's an hour drive.

Okay. So we say we're going to do some shows out there eventually, Tippi, some of these podcasts. And if we come out there, you'll give Gilbert and I a tour of the— Of course. I'll be back in my hotel. Oh, you sissy. What'd she call him? I called him a sissy.

That's an honor. You've never been called a sissy before, have you? You've been called a sissy by Tippi Hedren. That's a career highlight. You can put that on your... That'll be in my resume. Tippi, we were thrilled when we heard you agreed to do this and it was a thrill for us well it's been a wonderful interview i think it's the best i've ever had thank you seriously that's so sweet of you that's the first time a woman ever said that

to me that's the best i've ever had maybe the the last. The book is called Tippy. It's a wonderful read. I urge our listeners to get it and watch Roar because it's an absolutely fascinating experience. Also, go on YouTube because there's videos of you at Shambhala giving little tours, video tours, and explaining what happens there and introducing us to the animals. Yes. tours, video tours, and explaining what happens there and introducing us to the animals. Yes.

And in wrapping up, I'm Gilbert Gottfried, and this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to the great Tippi Hendrix. Thank you. Who called me a sissy. But did say I was the best she's ever had. That's okay, because you just called her Tippi Hendren. How is that true?

Did you really? Did you put an N in there where that's supposed to be? Okay. Tippi Hendren. That's it. Tippi, thanks for this. This was a treat. Our listeners will love it.

Oh, thank you. So go buy Tippi and take her home with you. Absolutely. Thank you.