Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 150. Billy J. Kramer

Episode Date: April 10, 2017

Liverpool-born rocker Billy J. Kramer, a member of the British Invasion and a friend/collaborator of the Beatles, joins Gilbert and Frank to explain the origin of Skiffle, the unusual appeal of the Cavern Club, the subculture known as "Teddy Boys" and Pete Best's exodus from the Fab Four. Also, Billy signs with Brian Epstein, teams with the Bee Gees, locks horns with George Martin, and covers Neil Diamond and Harry Nilsson. PLUS: "Jukebox Jury"! Billy goes glam! Gilbert salutes Gene Pitney! John Lennon records in the loo! And James Brown upstages the Stones! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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taking you to greater heights. Add your voice to the mix and let fresh answer back with perfect harmony in pure Michigan. Keep it fresh at michigan.org. Hi, I'm Gilbert Gottfried. This is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast.

And I'm deaf. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And once again, and he's turned off my earphones. No, no, no. Did I turn your earphones off? You turned off my earphones. Yes. Now I can hear myself. Okay, great. And where was I?

Oh, yes. This is Gilbert Godfrey's Amazing Colossal Podcast Until Frank Fucked Up the Earphones. And oh, it's Frank Sandopadre who fucked up the earphones. Yeah, that'd be me. And we're once again recording it at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Furtarosa, who lost three of our shows.

Oh, cut that out. Okay. Okay. Our guest this week is a singer, musician, songwriter, and recording artist, and one of the most popular performers to emerge from the pop music period known as the British Invasion. At the tender age of 19, he was signed by legendary manager Brian Epstein and was soon playing to sold-out houses and throngs of screaming teenage girls as the lead singer of Billy J. Kramer and the Dakotas. as the lead singer of Billy J. Kramer and the Dakotas.

Along his six-decade journey, he's recorded hit records such as Bad to Me, Little Children, and From a Window, appeared on popular shows like Shindig, Hullabaloo, The Ed Sullivan Show, The Tammy Show, and worked with George Martin. The Bee Gees. The Rolling Stones. Bad Finger. Gene Pitney.

The Hollies. Jerry Lee Lewis. Dusty Springfield. The Kinks. The Ronettes. And oh yes, four guys named John, Paul, George, and Ringo. His recent CD of original songs is called I Won the Fight, and we're thrilled to welcome to the show

a true rock and roll survivor and the first person to release a Lennon and McCartney song even before the Beatles themselves, Billy J. Kramer. Thank you. Wow. Well, there's no time for anything else. I can't believe you've done all that, can you, Bill?

No, I can't believe it. There's more. We could do a seven-minute intro if you'd like. There is more. That was one of our shorter ones. It was one of our shorter ones it was one of the shorter ones i never realized it myself you know you are the first liver puddly and that i believe i've ever met in the flesh oh yeah well we're pretty normal you know yeah and i was reading

your book the book by the way is called do you want to know a secret which we should have put in the intro that That's my fault. But we'll plug it all through the show. See, he fucked up again. I fucked that up too. And this is interesting. And to share with Gilbert, when you were very young, you were in bomb shelters. Yeah.

During blitzes. Yeah. I was born in World War II. Yeah. We had an air raid shelter in the backyard, which we used to go down. It's only a baby, but my father tells me how they would take us down there at night when the bombers came over. Yeah, that's amazing to me. Was it one of those things, like they always show in the movies at least, where the sirens start going off?

Apparently so, but I was a, I was a baby, you know. Yeah, but still, it's a terrifying thing for your family. It's terrifying when you look back at it, you know, it is scary. And what is Boodle? Boodle is just a part of Liverpool? Is it a neighborhood? Boodle is a suburb of Liverpool. It's a suburb. The amazing thing is I found out recently that the Beatles, you know, logos, the font is Bootle.

That's what it's called. Really? The name of the font, the famous Beatle font. That's cool trivia. That's cool trivia. Yeah. And how old were you when you first started getting interested in music? As a kid at school.

Yeah, you were in a choir. I was in the school choir. It was one of those things, a choir master was a man called Mr. Burke. And one day he had us all singing and he just walked around the class, I'll take you, I'll take you. And he grabbed me. And that's how I got in the choir. And who were you, what were your favorite type movies

when you were going to movies? And your favorite actors? You know, I wasn't really into movies. You don't get into that until you get a bit older. Mostly cartoons, you know, Popeye, you know, stuff like that. But you saw Rock Around the Clock, and that was influential. Well, I just saw Rock Around the Clock, you know, stuff like that. But you saw Rock Around the Clock, and that was influential. Well, I saw Rock Around the Clock, you know, because that was when rock and roll was first coming in in Great Britain.

And I remember it was like the Teddy Boy era. And I remember them, like, ripping the cinema seats open and throwing them at the screen. What's a Teddy Boy? Well, a Teddy Boy is a guy with grease back hair, long drape jackets, velvet collars, drainpipe trousers, and then beetle crusher shoes. Wow. And they would tear the seats out and throw them at the screen.

That's what happened. Wow. And that was... Oh, that's interesting. And I heard John Lennon say he wanted to come across as a teddy boy all the time, but in real life he'd be scared of them. I think so.

You know, I think he had a sort of teddy boy thing about him. You know, I remember sort of when they did a magical mystery tour and they had a big party at a hotel in London and, you know, we were all instructed to turn up in fancy dress and he just turned up in a denim jacket with John in studs on the back with his hair greased back. That was his fancy dress, which I thought was cool. So you're in a choir.

The teacher's plucking you guys out of hand-selecting people for this choir. And when does – you bought yourself a guitar at a certain point. You taught yourself the guitar. Yeah. When did the rock and roll thing sort of start as an idea? When did the rock and roll thing sort of start as an idea? You know, I used to, I think in Britain then there was very little sort of rock and roll on the radio. It was like Radio Luxembourg was on a Sunday night and I used to listen to Radio Luxembourg and they played people like Buddy Holly and Chuck Berry and Little Richard and, you know, the rock and rollers.

And that's where I first started getting, you know. And what was happening in Liverpool around this time? Funny enough, Skiffle. Yeah. You know, and I don't know why, but Skiffle, to me, I always had the feeling it wasn't going to be around long. It was just one of those instincts I had as a kid. I remember having a tea chest with a broom handle and string. A tea chest?

Yeah, and acoustic guitars and washboards and singing. When you look into it, though, skiffle is American. That's the funny thing about it. It's American traditional music. When I checked it out. That's interesting. When we hear Skiffle, we think of Lonnie Donaghan and does your bubble gum, your chewing gum lose its flavor

on the bedpost overnight? And my old man's a dust man. Right. But the big record for him that made him was Rock Island Line. Okay. I'm not going to sing it. That's alright. You don't have to sing it. That was it, you know.

So at some point you started a skiffle group. Yeah. Friends of mine, everybody did. You know, it was just a cheap thing to do. You know, there wasn't a lot of money around at that time. Yeah. And then I, you know, I got into, I taught myself the guitar. I was self-taught.

And I used to just play with kids from the neighborhood. What kind of stuff did you play? A lot of like Everly Brothers songs. Oh, oh. American music. American music. Buddy Holly and all of it. But you were shy.

You didn't. I still am. but you it's interesting for a performer and you make a point in the book of saying that you were content to stand in the back and just play and you never dreamed of becoming front and center become becoming the lead singer i'm glad you did sometimes i don't know't know. But I'll be honest with you. The band auditioned quite a few different singers. You mean the Dakotas? No, I was with a band called The Coasters.

Oh, The Coasters, right. Were you the Phantoms first? Yes. Yeah. And they auditioned different singers who didn't last long. And then one day they said, you don't believe your guitar playing is not progressing very well so i think you should have a try at singing and um i remember singing it just like uh what you call them here of these uh halls were legion halls yeah legion hall i sang at this legion hall and uh the guitar i had i thought guitar I had, I put the guitar on the stage and thought this will be a passing phase.

And it got stolen that night, and I couldn't afford another. So that was me. That's how I ended up singing. When did you first see the Beatles? I know the answer to this. December 1960. Yeah. Yeah. Where did you first see the Beatles? I know the answer to this. December 1960. Yeah. Yeah. Where did you see them?

Little in Town Hall. And you knew something, you knew there was something different about them immediately? I knew it. You know, it was one of those places where people used to go on a Thursday night and sort of like stand around, hang out around the perimeter of this ballroom and um i i was just hanging out and the cans opened and paul mccartney was singing long tall sally and everybody just ran to the front i'd never seen that before and i just went wow who are these guys who these guys? And I remember I said to my friends, they're going to be bigger than Elvis. And they went, you've been drinking too much. And I, no, but I've sincerely meant it.

I always felt that they were going to be really big. And five Beatles at this point, right? It's Stu Sutcliffe and Pete Best. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And with Pete Best is one of and Pete Best. Yes. Yeah. And with Pete Best, there's

one of those stories. I know. Yeah. It's one of those stories that, you know, nobody's ever given a real answer. You know, to me, it was always strange that suddenly, like, the Beatles are going to make records and everything

and then Pete gets dropped and, you know. Well, there's a point in the book I found interesting where you just talked about it. Maybe it wasn't that show, but it was another show where you saw immediately upon the conclusion of the show, the girls made a beeline for Pete. Well, you know, Bob Willer, who was the local DJ, after every show, he'd say, let's hear it one more time for John, George, Paul and Pete and when Pete Besser used to walk on the stage the girls would just

jump up and go crazy so the prevailing theory is I mean why would you want to get rid of someone like that the most popular theory I suppose Gil he's getting old I think

the one I heard was Ringo was a better Beatle. You know. Than what Pete was. Just more of a team player? He fitted in. So, you know. You know, I mean,

I'll get into it if you want to. Yeah, we'd like to hear it. You know, I mean, I'll get into it if you want to. Yeah, we'd like to hear it. You know, I mean, you know, as somebody, my knowledge of business and what goes on in show business, as we all know, it's a terrible business. And I think we can all attest to that. And it can be very unkind at times, you know. I mean, how must he have felt, you know? Yeah. I mean, you know, he'd been through all the Hamburg and the gigs.

Sure, of course. And then suddenly you get dropped, you know. That's rock and roll. That's show business. Now, you were talking to us before the mics went on because that's when we do our best part of the show. But you spoke to Pete Best recently. I see him from time to time. He's very unassuming.

He's a very nice man. I like Pete very much, you know. And he's still in Liverpool. He's still in Liverpool, yes. Now, does he carry... I mean, it's like, you know, when you think about him, he's one of those stories where you go, oh, my God, you know, the Beatles became bigger than God.

God, yeah. From my, you know, the times, I've never seen him show any signs of resentment, you know, be very hard not to, but I mean, you know, he just comes across as a very humble, nice person,

but it must've been tough at times. I'm sure. I'm trying to get the chronology of this. So you were, you were with the, uh, the phantoms, then the coasters.

Yes. And when do you change your name from Bill Ashton to? When I was with the Coasters. Uh-huh. And why? Because they, the guys in the band thought I needed a stage name. I thought my own name, which is William Howard Ashton, was a good name, but it wasn't rock and roll-y enough.

Looking back. That's interesting. You know, and they got this big list of phone numbers, It wasn't rock and roll-y enough. Looking back, you know. And they got this big list of phone numbers, and I said, do what you want. As long as it's got to be Billy. You wanted to keep your first name. I had to keep that.

And they got on to a telephoner for you. Said, which name do you like the best? And she said, Billy Krim. And I said, okay, that'll do. Okay, just when the show was starting to get good, we're gonna throw a monkey wrench into the works with this commercial word.

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Listen closely as a master painter carefully brushes. Benjamin Moore, Regal select down the seam of the wall. It's like poetry in motion. Benjamin Moore, see the love. And now back to the show. Now, most people assume the J in your name means Jew. But is that correct?

The J came from, I'd made my first record with George Martin, and it was going to be released a few weeks later, and Brian called me in the office, and John Lennon was there, and he said, John has a suggestion. And I said, well, what is it? And he said, why don't you call yourself Billy Jay Kramer? It'll catch on a lot better than just Billy Kramer and I said

thank you so much I think he was right I think he was dead right well he wasn't wrong so now it's Billy J. Kramer and the Coasters no

the Dakotas I'd left oh you'd left by this time what had happened was Billy Kramer and the Coasters Billy Kramer and the Coasters? No, the Dakotas. I'd left. Oh, you'd left. By this time, what had happened was Billy Kramer and the Coasters. Billy Kramer and the Coasters, yes.

Okay, now I'm getting it. And then I, what happened was I worked for British Rail and I was about to leave, get out of rock and roll altogether. You worked on locomotives.

Yeah, I was going to go to Crewe and work, do a course with Rolls Royce for a year and that was about it. I was going to pack it Crewe and do a course with Rolls-Royce for a year. And that was about it. I was going to pack it all in. And then Brian Epstein came along and made me an offer.

And I'd always thought, you know, I'd seen other people. But to me, I always thought if anybody was going to open doors and do it, it was going to be Brian. You know, I wouldn't have done, you know, I always thought if anybody was going to open doors and do it, it was going to be Brian. You know, I wouldn't have done, I wouldn't have been turned professional for anybody else I'd have carried on in engineering. So you're 19. Yeah.

And where did he see you that he decided that he had to manage you? He saw me, I used to do open shows for the Beatles. And then there was a popularity poll in a local paper, Mersey Beat. And it was for the top 20 bands. There was about 500 bands around Liverpool. And I came second. But I was joint second with a guy called Lee Curtis on the All Stars. And they had this presentation at a place called the Majestic Ballroom, Bergen

Head, the other side of the water from Liverpool. And we all had to get up and do a few songs, and that's where he saw me performing. And you decided that you had a, by the time he signed you, you had an idea of how you wanted to look, you wanted the... No, funny enough, because I was like... You didn't. No, because I was flamboyant. I used to wear gold army jackets and pink and stuff like that.

Because I thought that's what young kids wanted. And what happened was the guys in my first band, the Coasters, they had other professions, and they didn't want to turn professional, and Brian put me with an established band from Manchester to the Coasters. To the Coasters. And they said to Brian, we're not going to, you know,

we won't do it if he's going to be like the way he is. He's got to like... You were a little glam you know i i i didn't know that at the time you know i found out later but that was that was part of the deal he's gonna have to dress down and that was one of the first things he said to me um we're gonna throw away the christmas tree i love that yeah So you got rid of the gold suit and the gold shoes. Yeah, all that kind of stuff, yeah. It's so funny to me that Liverpool in America only means the Beatles.

You know, it's like no one else lives in Liverpool. Like there's no life other than. Well, it's completely associated with them, yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, the thing is,... Well, it's completely associated with them. Well, I mean, the thing is, you know, what people don't realize is that they've always had great soccer teams. You know, the rock stars like Billy Fury was a big rock star that nobody knows here.

Michael Holliday was a singer in the 50s who had number one hits. I'm ashamed to say I don't know those names. Liverpool was known for comedians like Ted Ray, Arthur Askey, all these sort of people. You should check it out. Do you know these names, Gilbert? No.

Ted Ray? No. Yeah, that was known for, you know. My father used to take me to the Shakespeare Theater when I was a kid, and they'd have this, like, blackboard and easel, and it has a different axe coming on and off. You know, that's, you know. What was the Cavern Club like?

I mean, you hear about legendary places. Yeah, it stunk. Yeah, there was sewage. It wasn't sewage. No, I don't know what it was. They put so much disinfectant down, you know. It wasn't the greatest of places,

but it was a great place to play. You know, the atmosphere at the cavern. I always tell people, you know, that if you didn't see the Beatles at the cavern, you never saw them. Wow. That was before the suits, and that's when they were really rock and roll. Right.

This is it. The Beatles sing Some Other Girl. ¶¶ I'm taking my love away from you now. So let's get the order of this. Now you're a client of Brian's. Yes. And are you still opening for them, for the Beatles? Are you doing your own gigs? I was always doing my own gigs as well as that.

That was just an occasional thing I would do. When they were sort of branching out, getting out of Liverpool, I would open for them. And they were a cover band. That's what I find so fascinating at the very beginning. Yes, they were a cover band. But the thing is with the Beatles, they were very clever about the covers they did. You know, most of the bands around, they all had the same repertoire.

But the Beatles, you know, were playing songs that nobody else was playing so people thought that they were original you know I mean none of us had a clue of how great the songwriters they were you know they were doing money and a taste of honey and boys and change sure yeah and and this is one of the most fascinating things in the book is is them telling you that they're going to start doing some original compositions. Yes. And your reaction to it. That was at a place in Witness. And funny enough, there was a band called Tornadoes.

I'd just gone to number one with Telstar. Oh, Telstar. Yeah. You know that one, Gil. Oh, yeah. Telstar. Was that. Yeah. You know that one, Gil. Oh, yeah. Intel Star. Was that? Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

And I was doing the show and it was Freddie and the Dreamers myself. I love Freddie and the Dreamers too. And the Beatles. And I went in the dressing room and I said, you know, I knew they were going down to London, they were rehearsing Twist and Shout in the dressing room, and I said, what are you going to record, lads? And they said, oh, a few things we've written ourselves. And I said, why don't we get some, like,

Dufferin King or somebody to write you some good songs? Because, you know, because nobody knew, know right yet when you heard please please me i mean i had please please me i i knew it was going to be number one when i heard love me too i thought you know that was a shock to me because i was like i'd hear the beatles doing like slow down and money and mccartney singing along to Old Sally and I was in the van with the Dakotas one day you know traveling along and I heard Love Me Too

and I thought that's not them you know it's like something the Everly Brothers would do yeah and I was a bit disappointed but then I heard Please Please Me you said that's a hit oh yeah I was a bit disappointed. But then I heard Please Please Me.

You said that's a hit. Oh, yeah. Interesting that you had the ear for that and you knew. Oh, yeah. I always wonder, and I've asked a few people this, where do you think the Beatles would have wound up without George Martin? I think they'd have been successful. I think it'd have been successful. I think it was inevitable.

I think with the songwriting ability and the talent, they would have somehow got the, it was just made to, it was in the stars. In the stars. That's interesting. So now when Brian puts you with the Dakotas, there's a kink because

you guys don't seem to get on very well. Well, Liverpool people and Manchester people don't really. Is that a fact? Well, you know, there's a rivalry about soccer. It seems stupid, but you know, there is.

I mean, I think anybody being a bit funny about you know soccer and sport is a bit ridiculous what we wrote we were all young and plus I'm they were just different kinds of people and than I was yeah I was I mean I'm I'm still very down-to-earth you know I've always tried to be that way and that's it they were a different type of people than me. So at one point, your band wasn't even speaking to you. Yeah, and it was weird because, I mean, I went to Hamburg,

and they went their way, and I went my way. It was very hard because I'd never been away from England at all, you know. Were you gaining confidence, though, as a singer? No. You weren't? No. Interesting. It's very, you know, people go on about that thing.

To me, I think things like self-esteem and gaining confidence, it's a funny thing, you know, when you still have a few number one hits and you do all these big shows and yet you still think like, what's all the fuss about? You know, I always say to my, I tell my wife the story about like going to Manchester.

Your wife, Ronnie, who's here, who we just met, who's lovely. You know, we go to, I go to Manchester on a train and I'm like William Ashton. And at the time, there was a thing going on in England called the Profumo Trials, where these politicians were...

Oh, yeah, famous. Right, famous. And they had me throwing files and pushing filing cabinets over in the studio. And then I get the train back to Liverpool and I'm walking up the street and it's like this crowd of kids at the top of the street. And I thought, what's that all about?

Is there a fire or something? And it was kids who'd seen me on TV, and they were all, you know, I had to get a police escort and all that kind of stuff. And, like, everything changed. How strange. Just, you know, and I always felt like I was just a self-conscious,

overweight kid. And it's like, you know, these girls didn't look at me three months ago. Right. Three months ago, I was working on trains.

Yeah, three months ago, I was in Greece, up to my elbows in Greece. Right. You know. So the girls are never a bad part of the rock and roll life. No. No. That seems to come up a lot with the musicians we've had on the show. Right You know So the girls Are never a bad part Of the rock and roll life No No

That seems to come up A lot with the musicians We've had on the show I know Everybody's like that Yeah So When did you meet

Gene Vincent Gene Vincent was appearing At the The Star Club Bebopalula Bebopalula yeah And that's where I met him Yeah

Died young Yeah Yeah Well he you know what was he like a rock and roller yeah he rock and rolled

and he played hard you know but I got on very well with him and it was you know we struck a friendship and we were good friends

you know I saw him from time to time sure and this is later but one of Gilbert's favorites is Gene Pitney, another Gene that you befriended. Yeah. So it was one of my early tours.

And I'd seen, there used to be this TV show called Jukebox Jury. And if something was a hit they rang a bell if something was a flop you know they thought it was a flop

they'd smash the record you know what I mean yeah okay so they I remember distinctly

the record town without pity and then you know I come to do this tour and Gene Pitney's on it

and I'm talking to the guys in the band, and I go like, well, what's he like? And they go, well, he's a very good singer, Billy, but the kind of music that he does, I don't think, you know, it's going to go down too well. Well, I'll tell you the truth.

I had a hard job the whole tour because he was a tremendous performer, a great singer, you know. I was lucky that I had three number ones at this time. Right. And, you know, it carried me. Let's be honest. Yeah, sure.

Because I wasn't the, you know, I mean, I got better over years. We all do. You only get worse, you know. That's the way. Yeah, sure. Because I wasn't the, you know, I mean, I got better over years. We all do. You only get worse, you know, that's the way I look at it. But I was very inexperienced and he was really good, you know. And it's very important just so the audience knows who he is. When you stop to gaze upon a star, people talk about how bad we are. How can anything survive?

How can we keep love alive when these little minds tear us in two? No, it isn't very pretty. What a town without pity can do. Billy didn't know what to do. He didn't know whether to join in or run. How's that for a voice, Bill? Should we get him signed up somewhere? It's no worse than these rappers that I got. There's a compliment, Gil.

You brought up the songs. Let's talk about the songs. Bad to me happened first. No, it didn't. Oh, it didn't? Do you want to know a secret? Oh, I got my chronology wrong. Yes, yes.

That was the first record. And it was before the Beatles. How did that come to be? Brian Epstein gave me a tape, one of them Grundig tapes. And it was John Lennon. People always ask me about demos. I never received a demo.

Apart from, do you want another secret? It was just him on an acoustic guitar and he said, I apologize for the quality, but I did it in the quietest place I could find and flushed the toilet. He had that sense of humor.

Yes. And, you know, all the other songs I have recorded, like Bed to Me, he came to the studio and sat at the piano and played me, actually. And he played me I Want to Hold Your Hand. He said, I want to play you a song and please give me your opinion. And he played I Want to Hold Your Hand.

I went, can I have that one? And he said, no, we're doing that. We're keeping that one. But John and Paul came to all the things that I recorded of theirs. And they really supported you. Yeah, I did. See, a lot of people, I had a big hit in England, I'll Keep You Satisfied, which was one of their songs.

Sure. I did I Call Your Name, which I did a year and a half before they did. I Call Your Name I call your name But you're not there None I do blame I call your name, but you're not there. And I'm not to blame for being unfair. Oh, I can't sleep at night since you've been gone.

I never weep at night. I can't go on Well, don't you know I can't take it Were they writing songs for you as a favor to Brian or because they liked you? I hope they liked me. Uh-huh. And they were trying to be supportive of your career

I think they were always supportive I remember one day I was rehearsing at the cabin funny enough and they came and sat in the front row and listened in and stuff like that you know when I was on tour with them on the road they would always come to the side

of the stage and you know when Beatlemania was all crazy in England and I was touring with them then they'd always come to the side of the stage. And, you know, when Beatlemania was all crazy in England and I was touring with them, then they'd always come to the side of the stage and John would even say to me, you never did it tonight, Billy. Meaning what? If I hadn't really turned it on, he'd tell me.

Yes. And interestingly, there's another thing in the book that earlier in your career, he said to you, he said something that stopped you. He said, where's the show? Yes, that's right. And what did that mean? Where's the show? It meant you're not doing it. You're not doing it. You're not turning it on, man.

So he was that honest with you. Absolutely. And when you toured with them, and it's in the book too, you were a prisoner in the hotels, kind of like they were. Yes. There was nowhere to go. Nowhere to go, no. And you couldn't get out. Why?

For your own safety? Well, there was no security. You know, there'd be like the local policemen or something, you know, and there'd be these thousands of girls. It would be right around every theater we went to you know you came off stage and you had to battle your way through a crowd and get on a coach and go to the hotel and it was like day in and day out it was like that i can see gilbert's dying to ask you yes the specifics about how the women were yeah Yeah. Well, you never got a chance, really.

You know. No time. No time. Yeah. Oh, that makes me feel better. Gil, that doesn't happen to you when you're in a hotel? Oh, yeah, yeah. After I do ha-has in Cincinnati. It's nonstop.

They're swarming. Non-stop pussy. They're swarming. Non-stop pushy. You know, to me, it's very flattering. Yeah, sure. You know, but I mean, I don't know. I had girlfriends that I would see. But it was weird because if I went to Liverpool,

if I wanted to have a quiet drink, I'd have to go like a hundred miles away to some country pub or restaurant. That's how it was. You ever see an American movie called I Want to Hold Your Hand? Robert Zemeckis' film? No.

It's about the Beatles coming to New York and playing The Sullivan Show. Oh, yeah. It's fun. You should take a look at it the Beatles coming to New York and playing The Sullivan Show. Oh, yeah. It's fun. You should take a look at it. Oh, tell us about doing The Ed Sullivan Show. Yeah. I'll tell you the truth.

If I'd have known how many people actually watched that show, I think I'd have gone on the first plane home. Really? Yeah. I mean, it's a bit nerve-wracking to look at a camera and think there's 70 million people looking at you. What song did you sing? I sang all of them. I sang Do You Want to Know a Secret, paired to me and from a window.

Did you meet Sullivan? Did you have any experience of the man? No, he never said a lot to me. Yeah. No. It was weird because we did the sound. It was strange because I remember we did the sound check in the afternoon

and they turned the amplifiers the wrong way around. I was like what's this all about it was obviously because it keeps the volume down you know and um I went off and I just really made sure I knew exactly what I was going to be on when I came back and I just went on and did it you know it's funny because I never saw any of them things because nobody had VCRs and things like that. Not two years later you saw them. Tammy Show too? Yeah, same thing.

Tell us who you were on the bill with on the Tammy Show. We had Steve Binder here, as I mentioned to you before. Oh yeah, I've got to tell you the Steve Binder. Yeah. You know, Steve Binder, he, I don't know why, but I read this thing in a newspaper where he said when they brought it out on DVD, my least of all favorite was Billy J. Kramer.

So I was on a plane going to Santa Fe with my wife So I was on a plane going to Santa Fe with my wife, and I composed an email the whole trip. When we got to Santa Fe, I sent it to her. And I said in the email, I said, you know, why did you pick on me? You know, because Leslie Gore was pop poppy the Beach Boys were poppy Jerry and the Pacemakers were poppy why me you know so I

sent this email off and he came back to me on his hands and knees nearly and he apologized he apologized so then he said, you know, the next time you're in California,

I'd love to meet up with you. So when, when I went to California, we got together. That's nice. And he, it was very nice. And he asked me,

he said, have you forgiven me? I said, of course. He may never forgive us. Gilbert, Gilbert and I, but I'm glad he forgave you. Oh, he's a good man. He's a good man. We enjoyed having him.

I'll be honest with you. If I had known that he did the Elvis comeback special, I would have kept my mouth shut. Because I thought that was so good. That's funny. As long as you bring up the Tammy show, I mean, tell us your experience of the Stones trying to follow James Brown. Well, you know, I'll be honest with you. I mean, it's impossible. Yeah.

Because, you know, there was a lot of great artists on that show. And amazing, Bill. Amazing, you know, and... Chuck Berry, too. Chuck Berry, Marvin Gaye, the Beach Boys. Supremes. Supremes. It's the all-time bill.

The all-time bill. And James Brown went on and was just at the top of his game. He was phenomenal. And it took about an hour and a half or two hours to shut the crowd up. And quite frankly, you know, I really felt sorry for the Stones because, I mean, it was like, what can I say? It was a bit pathetic after, you know. I've heard comics say that about following you, Gil.

Yeah. Well, because the audience is gone. You know, everybody's had that experience. You know, it's like people say to me, I had someone recently talking about, like, following the Beatles, and like, you know, did you ever follow? I went, yes, I did. What was it like?

Terrible! There's been a few of, like, well, Alan and Rossi, I think, followed the Beatles. Oh, on Sullivan. Yeah. This was at a gig in London. A gig in London. And Brian Epstein says, you're going to have to close on it. I went, why?

He said, they've got to go somewhere. I said, well, can't the big three do it? That was another bend that he managed. He went, no, no, you've got to do it. It was hard work. There was no following them. No, it was hard. No.

Yeah. It's like following God. Yeah. I hate to say that. It's like following God. Yeah. I hate to say that, but yeah. It's interesting. One of the stories in the book is how their equipment would arrive late sometimes, and they'd wind up playing the Dakota's instruments. Oh, yeah.

That there's supposedly a picture of Ringo playing. There is a picture of Ringo playing the Tony Bookbinder's drums. That's great. Yeah. So do you want to know a secret as a hit? Yes. And then what happens? Then what happens is I was on tour with the Beatles,

and John Lennon came up to me on my 20th birthday and said, I've got a song for you. He was reading Melody Maker, and they'd just entered the charts in the United States. And I said, well, play it. And he said, no. I said, you know, it's my birthday today, John. And he said, well, I'll come to Abbey Road.

And I didn't think he was going to show. But when I was next at Abbey Road, he came and played the song Bad to Me. Wow. Now, this is a great picture in the book of your 20th birthday party. Yeah, that was in the dressing room at the theater. Everybody's there. Yeah. So he played Bad to Me, and. Now, this is a great picture in the book of your 20th birthday party. Yeah, that was in the dressing room of the theater. Everybody's there.

Yeah. So he played bad to me, and you said, I'll take it. I thanked him very much. Yeah. And another hit. If you ever leave me, I'll be so blue. I'll be so blue Don't you ever leave me I'm so in love with you

The birds in the sky would be sad If they knew that I'd last mine One and only, they'd be sad You're back to me The leaves and the trees would be South beside the earth And the breeze that you let me cry And they'd be sad

If you're back to me I remember the feeling like Bryan Epstein called me when Do You Want to Know the Secret was number one, and I was like, where do I go from here? And then Batman, like, the same thing. And then the third one was I'll Keep You Satisfied, and that got to number three. Pretty good. And I thought, that's not good enough.

Then I stepped away from Lennon-McCarn and did Little Children, which was number one. Right, right. It's interesting because you trusted your instincts on that one and you were proven right. Yes. You're not always right. You're not always right. I'm sure. You were turning their songs down at that point.

You were saying thank you but no thank you. Well, the three songs that they offered me at the time were done by other people and went successful. I see. I never asked. The only time I ever asked for a song was Beatles were doing a show at a theater called the ABC in Blackpool. And Paul played Yesterday to me. And I went, no, I want a rock and roll song. Because in England, not here, but I just had a hit with the Backrack song, Trains, Boats, and Planes.

I love that one. I love your version of it. Thank you very much. Great. And I wanted to do, I've just, actually, I've just recorded yesterday. Just to show people how I could do it. Because you turned it down. Have you kicked yourself

at all? No. You win some, lose some. That's the way it goes. He was looking for a rocker at the time. Yeah. You're like 22 years of age and I thought that's a bit, you know. Right. Okay, so now Little Children goes to number one. Right. So now you've had three number

ones and things are cooking. Yeah. And I went back to Leonard McCartney and I did From a Window. Love that one too. Yeah. And this is a fun thing. What did you do with your first royalty check for me and my? I went out and I bought a load of records.

Love that. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I love that. And then after Little Children, this is kind of a turning point in your life. Yes. This is around the time, do I have the chronology right now? When does Brian pass?

I'd had From a Window. Right. Which got to number 12. Right. And, you know, the long story about the little children thing was like, it was, I was sort of like disappointed

because like, I was satisfied it was number three. And I really thought, you know, it was going to be number one. And I did the London Palladium, which I didn't want to do. And I wasn't very good. And it was a disaster.

The record sales fell away, and I thought, it's all over. You always thought it was going to end. It's all over. And then I just really went around publishers, and I had thousands of acetates, and I didn't know how to tell him. You know, Brian, I've got this song, and I think it's better than this, you know. And I didn't tell him, but eventually he did find out.

And it made things a bit cold between us for a while. Yeah, you say in the book things changed after that. Things changed after that, and then he came to see me at the Shakespeare Theatre in Liverpool and said, you know, let's work on our new project. When I come back from the States and I said, fine, you know. And fortunately, he died. And it was a very, very hard period for me, you know.

I bet it was shocking. As a young man. I just didn't know what to do, you know. You know, where do I go? And he was in the process of forming his own label. And I did a couple of things for that. You know, I did a Bee Gees song, Town of Tuxedoimaker Part 1. Right.

And then I did Harry Nilsson's 1941. But I didn't have the power of EMI behind me. Picking good songwriters, though. Yeah. Yeah. I always tried to. Yeah. And, you know, but I kept working.

You know, I kept working in England. His brother was going to take over and try to manage for a while? He was going to take over. And I just didn't think it was, you know. To me, I'm weird in this way. They'd taken on a lot of people that went from Liverpool. Yeah. And I thought, I don't want to be with that office.

Interesting. And I decided to go elsewhere. Yeah. So his death kind of threw you for a loop. Well, I always say I knew nothing about show business. I was really protected. Yeah. You know, everywhere I

went, like once a week I would get a registered letter with checks for the band, checks for the road crew, so much of a float. There'd be a complete breakdown of everything. And I, you know, he really took care. You know, and suddenly I was open to all the piranhas.

Interesting. Yeah. I think the Beatles were a little lost at that moment too. I would say so yes yeah you'd lost a friend too in addition to losing a manager don't want him it don't want to lose sight of that and with Brian oh yeah yeah definitely he was always there birthdays you know always cards at Christmas very thoughtful you know he would when I was

starting for instance he would come to shows unannounced and he come backstage afterwards and they go through the set list you know and what you said and how do you denounce songs and what songs you'd sang and get rid of that one. And he'd get the crew and say the lighting, you know, he'd go over everything. There's a line in the book that's touching. You say he took you from the railway to the top of the Pops. Yes.

That's quite a journey. Well, I always say that. I didn't know what knife and fork to use until I met Brian that's a wonderful line but you know you toured with the New Dakotas

yeah for a bit yeah and I also want to ask you about this there's a when the Beatles split up there's a quote in the book you say you were shocked by how it went down, but you also understood it.

You understood the pressure. Of course. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, something like that can only go on for so long. You know, I mean, I thought I was under a lot of pressure. But in comparison with what they were going through, you know. And it's inevitable. Let's face it, you know, there were four very young guys,

and eventually, you know, they get older and they have minds of their own and tastes of their own. Of course. And what they want from life and things like that, you know. And, you know, funny enough, with me, I just thought, I'll be really, really honest with you, I saw them getting on the train with the Maharishi, and I thought, I better find a new direction. Wow.

Well, like the Beatles themselves realized that after a while. I realized it right away, though. Yeah. after a while. I'd really like to go out of the way, though. Yeah. Don't go away. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. Join love and marriage expert Maribel May

for even more tips on how the American housewife can keep up with the fast-paced life of 1965. Following the success of our series, The Complete Woman, Maribel brings us her latest audio companion, The Complete Joy. Actress Amanda Lund brings Maribel to life in this hilariously accurate send-up of 1960s self-help records. end up of 1960s self-help records. Splitsider called the complete woman sly and subversive.

Find out more about the complete woman and the complete joy at stitcherpremium.com slash complete. That's stitcherpremium.com slash C-O-M-P-L-E-T-E. I love that, Amanda Lund. Tell us a little bit about John. I mean, you get the sense from the book, your book in particular, but other things that I've read, that he could be a handful. Not with

me. No, but you didn't, you took a liking to Cynthia, and you weren't wild about the things that went down. Is that fair to say? You know, I mean, he would always say to me different things. You know, when they brought an album out and they'd have a big splurge

somewhere, he'd say, well, keep an eye on Cynthia. And I would sit with her and dine and dance and talk and we became very good friends and I liked her very much. And I'll be honest with you, I mean, I was shocked when he went off with Yoko Ono um I can

understand it now in later years you know but it made me kind of back off you know and people would say to me why didn't you go and see John and I was like you know um know, I've always been sorry that I never reconnected, you know. You worded very sweetly in the book, and you said that when he died, it felt like the sun went out and traffic stopped. That's right. Which is really painting a picture. That's, you know. Really? That's how it felt.

That's how it felt. You know, I remember being in the middle of London that day, and that's exactly how it felt. And a lot of people have strong opinions about Yoko Ono. What was your opinion? I can't really give an opinion, because believe it or not, I've never met her. Oh, you never met Yoko? I never met Yoko, and so I can't form an opinion because believe it or not, I've never met her. Oh, you never met Yoko. I never met Yoko. And so I can't form an opinion.

Sure. Obviously it was the love of his life. And that's, that's the way it is. You know, um, what can I say? You know,

were there opportunities to, to, to reconnect with John that you didn't take? Yeah. You know, I was over here on tour and people would give me his card and I just never bothered. Yeah.

Well, how could you know? Well, you know, it's just, I mean, I don't know. Yeah. I really wished I would have known. I think, you know, going through a divorce myself, afterwards, you know, going through a divorce myself afterwards, you know, I also could see it in a different way. Gilbert brought up George Martin, too, and you get the sense from the book that you had your struggles.

You had your conflicts. Yeah, you know, yeah. Yeah, he wasn't in love with your voice at first. Well, you know, John Lennon was, so that's more important. There you go. I'll be honest with you. I was very intimidated by George. And meeting George Martin to me was like meeting the Duke of Edinburgh.

That's intimidating. Yeah, it's intimidating. And I didn't think he was very warm. And I was a very shy, you know, kid. But, you know, like, you know, I hear all these wonderful stories. And he did wonderful with the Beatles. But, I mean, things like bad to me, you know, I spent a whole day of, like, converting him, saying,

it's the wrong key, George.orge you know we started off in the morning recording bad to me in e and i said no it's too it's too high we should do it in d it sounds shouted in e and he poo-pooed me so he gave in in the end and when we changed the key it worked you know and um i don't know you know um i never warmed to george and george never warmed to me and that's just one of those things you know but you produce some good stuff together in spite of that i well yeah i think a lot of that you know to me a lot of it uh i give norman smith a lot of credit norman smith the engineer normal yes he was normal and he played in a band. Yeah. And he knew what went on, you know.

And he used to say to me when I was like shaking a bit, just tell him. Tell him you don't like him. Right. What is the thing you talked about? Musicians will love this. Our friend John Fotiadis is here who's obsessed with this kind of stuff and also Bill Poricelli who's here.

He would speed up or slow down tracks. You specifically were talking about a drum solo? Not a drum solo, excuse me, a guitar solo? He would, even on Little Children, he would slow the track to half speed and play the piano part in a low register and when it was spit up again it gave that wound up piano sound you know I think he used it

on like the guitar solo in Hard Day's Night what did he do? he slowed the track down and George played the solo at half speed on a 6 string and a twelve string and the piano as well and the whole lot together sounds

pretty nice. That's fascinating to me. Yeah. And he produced comedy records too which people forget he worked with the Goons. He worked with the Goons, he worked with Shirley Bassey he worked with Matt Monroe you know, worked with a lot of people. I think of Bond

themes when you say Shirley Bassey and Matt Monroe, you know, work with a lot of people. I think of Bond themes when you say Shirley Bassey and Matt Monroe. From Russia with Love, isn't that what comes to mind? Yeah. So, Brian's gone and you're recording. At what point do you do the Neil Diamond song?

You couldn't get anybody interested in Sweet Caroline, which I find hilarious. Yeah, because, you know, Neil Diamond had. You couldn't get anybody interested in Sweet Caroline, which I find hilarious. Yeah, because, you know, Neil Diamond had not done anything. Sure. He'd not done anything in England. And nobody was interested. I just liked the song

and I just thought, I'm going to do it to hell with it. At that time, I was just doing my own records independently. Yeah. Couldn't get anybody to take a bite. I'll be honest with you.

It was like if you were a 60s artist, I felt like a leper. Really. How so? I thought the engineers at the BBC and people like that were very cynical towards northerners anyway. You know, right from the beginning. Yeah.

You know, what are you going to do when this is all over? Remarks like that and, you know. Yeah, of course. You also, I found it interesting too, I guess I should have known this, but early in the book you say that Londoners had an attitude toward Liverpool, Ian. it goes back a long time. But you know, it's like I noticed like when I spent a week in London, first time on my own, and it's like, you're a nice guy. Where are you from? Liverpool. And it's like as if people

jumped back three feet, you know. I think people from the South thought that we were rough-edged and uncouth and didn't have the greatest reputation. I think that's true here with Manhattan and the boroughs. Don't you think, Gil?

Oh, yeah. The same kind of. Yeah, but, you know, I think the, you know. There's a superiority. I, you know, it's very funny because, you know, a friend of mine came to see me do a performance in Liverpool about four years ago. And he was coming through the emigration. And the guy said to him, like, where are you going? He said, I'm going to Liverpool to see a friend of mine performing at the Cavern.

And he went, what on earth are you going there for? And this is like 50 years later. When did you decide to tour Africa, which is another interesting uh journey for you well for me i'll be honest with you i it was like i worked with this band called late who were very good and i really enjoyed working with them they had an opportunity to go off and make an album for atlantic and um i got this offer to go on tour tour Africa and I'll be honest with you you know I thought to myself you know I've been in this business quite a while and you know it's about time I bought a home you know I was making all this money and spending on all sorts of stupid

things more records more records no by this time it was like making records, which was expensive. Oh, right. Sure. And I just thought it would be a good thing to do. And it was a wonderful experience. You played South Africa, too. I played South Africa, and I played at Soweto. And, you know, I know what it's like to be black.

When I played at Soweto, it was me and a couple of musicians. They were all black people, and I got the vibe. Yeah, that's interesting. And there's kind of a horror story attached to you, the money. Yes. Yeah. I got ripped off, which, you know, I mean, do you want me to tell the whole story? Well, tell a shortened version of it, because it's interesting.

It's very interesting. Well, at the end of the tour, I went over the accounts with the agent and gave me a check for the balance, and I took it into the bank. And the guy said, the bank manager would like to see you. And I said, well, you cannot leave the country. He said, we can cash your check, but if you leave the country and it's cash, they can take it off you and that's it. So I said, what's the procedure?

He said, well, you find a lawyer and you put it in bond, and when he gets permission for you, it's forward to your accountant, which is what I did. But the lawyer ran off with the money. Absconded with the money. Yeah. Unbelievable. I didn't get my house and I didn't get

anything. You believe that, Gil? Wow. That's rock and roll. Rock and roll. Is that what you said at the time? No, I didn't. I was very upset. You know. Why did you decide to move to the States?

You're here now. You're a New Yorker like us. Yes. I met my wife. Yes. And felt that she had a different slant on life like nobody else had ever met. That's nice. And decided that I wanted to spend my life with her.

It was kismet. It was kismet, yes. That's nice. You hear that, Ronnie? She's smiling out there? She's almost the easiest guy to live with. Maybe Dara could have a... Maybe they could have a heart-to-heart.

Yeah. You were also instrumental in getting Brian inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Yes. Well, you know, I have this house in Santa Fe, which to me is one of the most

inspirational places I've ever been to. And I just came home one day and said to her, I'm going to buy a new guitar. And she said, well, you haven't played one. I bought you one 25 years ago. And she sat there and I said, well, you haven't played one. I bought you one 25 years ago. And she sat there and I said, well, I hate to tell you,

but it was a piece of junk. And I went out and bought a guitar and wrote this song to Liverpool with love. Love it. And Sunset's the Santa Fe. And I did a whole CD and I won the fight. That was it. The place that I grew up in

was hidden from my view. It took four lads and rock and roll to make the world come new. I had a girlfriend Maureen the envy of

my friends she put me on the spot I wouldn't tie the knot and I never ever saw her again Home to Liverpool with love Home to fool with love.

Oh, to live a fool with love. Tell us, you know, you toured with the CD. You went out to promote the CD. I went out. I did two British Invasion tours. And who was on those tours? Jerry Mars? No, he wasn't.

Jerry wasn't. Mike Pander from The Searchers. Oh, okay. Denny Lane, Peter Asher. Oh. Yeah. All great artists. And then I went to England.

To support the record. Yeah, and I did like 44 concerts in 50 days. Did you guys, did the Dakotas turn down Needles and Pins? Well, you know, it's, you know. You remember that one, Gil? Oh, God. It was very. Needles and Pins. Pins.

Oh, yes, yes. Why do I think Sonny Bono wrote that song? You know, people ask me about it, and that was one of the frustrating things with the Dakotas. I mean, I would go to them with the song, and they'd go, we're not playing it. It just didn't. You know, and I was like in New York, and I met Jack Nitsy, who did the arrangements for the Spectre records, and he gave me When You Walk in the Room and Needles and Pins.

And at the time, I had a record player in my car that played 45s. And I went, I'm home a while and I'm playing these songs. I thought, these are hit songs. And when I played them to the band, they were like, you know. They just didn't. They didn't. I'll be honest with you. I always say that it's a long time ago.

There's no hang-ups, but, you know, it was a bad move. Yeah. It was a bad move. Big hit, needles and pins. Yeah, big hit, but, I mean, it was a bad move working with him. Oh, I see. Oh, I see, in the broader sense. Do I have that right?

Is Porcelli out there? Didn't Sonny Bono write needles and pins when he was working for Spectre? Jackie D. Shannon, I think. Well, I'm getting a thumbs up from the research team. All right. We'll throw it out there. Yeah. They should have listened to you, Bill.

I know. But I'm not right all the time. None of us are. Do you guys want to take it? Would you dare do something as bold and as crazy as singing something with Gilbert? Yeah, if he wants to, yeah. You got a guitar. That was a reaction.

Get a guitar, Arnold. You know, but we do have something. We do have a kind of a karaoke version. Of what? It's Do You Want to Know a Secret, which you should have. I hope I can still sing it. You should have. I apologize for the karaoke track.

That's all right. But we should do some damage here. Okay. Oh, there definitely will be damage. You are about to sing with a British invasion icon, my friend. Well, just say when. Frankie? Frankie?

You never know how much I really love you. You never know how much I really love you You never know how much I really care Now listen Do you want to know a secret? Do-da-do Do you promise not to tell? Whoa Closer Do-da-do Let me whisper in your ear Do you promise not to tell? Whoa! Closer!

Do-da-do! Let me whisper in your ear Do-da-do! Say the words you'd like to hear I'm in love with you! Woo! Closer! Do-da-do! Let me whisper in your ear Do-da-do! Say the words you'd like to hear Go ahead, Gil.

That's your part. Beer. I've known a secret for a week. Wait, wait. Oh, you, sorry. Listen, figure, for a week or two. Nobody knows, just we two. Listen.

Do-da-do. Do you want to know a secret? Do-da-do. you want to know a secret? Do-da-do Do you promise not to tell? Whoa Closer Do-da-do Let me whisper in your ear

Do-da-do Say the words you love to hear I'm in love with you Oh Oh Oh Oh I love you Bill, you're a trooper. Well, thank you. That was great. Should we do it again?

Gil, was that one of the thrills of your career? Oh, yeah. That's so great. Well, that made my night. The book is called... Do You Want to Know a Secret? Do You Want to Know a Secret? Do You Want to Know a Secret? And the CD is called,

I Won the Fight. Right. And where can people get the book and where can people get the CD? It's on Amazon. Okay. Both of them. Yeah.

And when are you going to be playing these parts? Any time in the near future? I've nothing planned at the moment. Okay. I'm going out to LA later this week. You won't tour with Gilbert? Oh, I'd love to. That'd be great. That would be fabulous. Nothing planned at the moment. Okay. I'm going out to L.A. later this week. You won't tour with Gilbert? No. Oh, I'd love to.

That'd be great. That would be fabulous. You know, he sang with some heavy hitters on this show. I'm sure he has. Paul Williams. Oh, that's right. Tony Orlando. Tony Orlando.

Mark Hudson. Dick Van Dyke. Dick Van Dyke. Who recently? Did I forget somebody? Frankie? Who else forget somebody? Frankie? Who else did he sing with? I think you got them all.

Did I get them all? No, there's more than that. Unless you want to do an actual duet with me. That would be a great thing. What's that? We should do a duet. We should do a record together. Because I didn't let you jump in on Town Without Pity

You want to do a little Gene Pitney? No, no He's had enough No, not Gene Pitney It only depends which song Which one do you like? I like I'm Gonna Be Strong You know that one, Gil?

No Okay 24 Hours from Tulsa Gil, 24 Hours from Tulsa, you must know I like I'm Going to Be Strong. Do you know that one, Gil? No. Okay. 24 Hours from Tulsa. Gil, 24 Hours from Tulsa, you must know. That was a hit. Hello, Mary Lou. He wrote. Hello, Mary Lou. I believe Rick Nelson.

A little fast, isn't it? No, it's great. Okay. Hello, Mary Lou. Goodbye, heart. Mary Lou, I'm so in love with you. I knew Mary Lou. We never part.

So hello, Mary Lou, and goodbye, heart. Pass me by one sunny day. Pass those big brown eyes my way. I knew I wanted you forevermore. Well, I'm that one that gets around. She looks through to the ground. And so I sure look through today. I said hello, Mary Lou.

Goodbye, heart. Hello, Mary Lou Goodbye, heart Hello, Mary Lou And goodbye, heart Close On you, Mary Lou We never part So hello, Mary Lou And goodbye, heart Oh, that was fantastic.

Wow. You should do an album. You guys got to do an LP. It's official. Bill, we can't thank you enough for coming here and entertaining us and telling us your life story. Thank you. I've enjoyed it. You have seen it all.

I've seen it all. I've enjoyed it. And thank you very much. Of course, my friend. Okay. I'm Gilbert Gottfried. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And the man who has just been holding back my musical career all these years.

You could blossom without him. Yes. Yes. He's just been dead weight around my neck. Billy J. Kramer. Billy, this was a real thrill for us. Thanks, buddy. Thanks.

My pleasure. Leave me tonight Just where the light shines From a window And as I take your hand Stay there to Leave her tonight Oh, I would be glad Just to have a love like that Oh, I would be true And I'd live my life for you

So, meet me tonight Just where the light shines From a window And as I take your hand Say that you Be my Toon Toon Hey, this is Hillary Frank.

I host the Longest Shortest Time podcast. Tune in next week for a very special interview with comedian Rob Hubel. We will talk about his wife. Oh boy, Hillary, don't make me start crying. Becoming a dad. Hold on, I gotta pour myself some water so I don't cry on your podcast. And bringing his daughter home. I gotta take a sip of this water, which I wish was vodka, but it's water to keep myself from crying like a big crybaby. Rob Hubel, like you have never heard him before. Next week on The Longest Shortest Time. Fuck you, Hillary.

Fuck you. Just doing my job.