Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 192. Phil Rosenthal

Episode Date: January 29, 2018

Emmy-winning writer-producer-actor Phil Rosenthal chats with Gilbert and Frank about a number of compelling topics, including the "sex appeal" of comedians, the vulgarity of network sitcoms, the ingeniousness of "Tootsie" (and "The Swimmer") and the realism and relatability of "The Honeymooners." Also, Lucy loses a ring, George Burns nabs an Oscar, Robert Mitchum dons an apron and Phil remembers his dear friend Peter Boyle. PLUS: The artistry of Alan Arkin! The wonder of Walter Matthau! Jerry Lewis plays the big room! Phil hangs with Peter O'Toole! And the most politically incorrect movie ever made! This episode is brought to you by Squarespace (www.squarespace.com code: GILBERT) and Audible (www.audible.com/GILBERT). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Please play responsibly. I'm George Shapiro and I love I'm listening to and I'm dedicated to Gilbert Godfrey

amazing colossal podcast. Don't miss it. Don't miss it. Perfect. I thought that was good. Perfect. Did you feel my passion? I did.

Yes. Very much so. I got a tear in my eye. Okay, I'm going to go because they're going to tow my car away. Thank you. hi this is gilbert gottfried this is gilbert, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. And I'm here with my significant other, Frank Santopadre.

And we're once again recording at Nutmeg with our engineer, Frank Ferdarosa. with our engineer, Frank Furtarosa. Our guest this week is an Emmy-winning writer, producer, TV host, occasional actor, and fellow showbiz historian. He's written hit sitcoms like Coach, primetime specials like Earth to America, and the Peabody-winning A Tribute to Heroes, produced comedy series like The Jeff Garland Program and The Winklers, and acted in feature films like Spanglish, The Simpsons Movie, and Walk Hard, The Dewey Cox story. For nine memorable seasons, he was the creative force behind one of the most popular and enduring comedies in television history, Everybody Loves Raymond, a show nominated for over 70 Emmy Awards. In a very busy career, he's worked with Tom Hanks, George Clooney, Norman Lear, Charles

Derny, Martin Short, Carl Reiner, Robert Mitchum, Peter O'Toole, and former President Bill Clinton, among dozens of others. And yet there's more. He's also the author of the book, You're Lucky You're Funny, How Life Becomes a Sitcom, the writer and director of the documentary Exporting Raymond, and the host of the PBS food and travel series, I'll Have What Bill's Having, which won a James Beard Award.

I think Elsa Lanchester once was nominated for a Beard Award. Totally different thing. His anticipated new Netflix series, Somebody Feed Phil, takes him from Thailand to Tel Aviv in search of new experiences, cuisine, and culture. and culture. Please welcome one of the funniest and nicest people in show business and a man who once auditioned for the same show as yours truly, our pal, Phil Rosenthal. Wow. I left a half hour ago. It's a long intro, Phil. You've done a lot. Holy cow. Wow. You've done a lot of stuff.

I was expecting, I'm much older than when you started. Tell Phil how you usually think those intros should end. I always feel like they should end, found dead in his Los Angeles apartment. That's very good. Please, can you do that for me? Redo it. Add that. That'll be nice.

Let's get it out of the way. What did you guys both audition for? Because you told me over the phone, Phil. Gilbert, I wonder if you remember this. I don't so far. Do you remember there was a show, I'm going to say in the early 80s, maybe the mid-80s, there was an off-Broadway show, and it was a National Lampoon review of some kind. I don't remember the name of the show, but I know it was National Lampoon something.

You remember auditioning? No. Was it Gilbert? Who's older, you or me? That's really funny because I remember you walking in there. It was just you and me going to this callback, and you were either before or after me, and I remember meeting you briefly, and you were very sweet, but you were very crazy. What is this, late 80s, did you say, Phil? I want to say mid-80s.

Mid-80s. That should be the title of my autobiography. Very sweet, but very crazy. But very crazy. Yeah. I don't remember the show. I do remember not getting it, and I was going to ask you if you got it, but I'm guessing you don't remember the show. I do remember not getting it. And I was going to ask you if you got it, but I'm guessing you didn't get it either because you don't remember.

I would have remembered something about it. I would have remembered a successful stage career. Yeah. But were you auditioning a lot in those days as an actor? Not so much as an actor. I would get some auditions here and there. Yeah. But an agent was sending you out and doing things?

Because I couldn't even get an agent. Oh, I mean, it was like so few and far between. Yes. And it was like so few and far between. Yes. People think people are under this image that I remember being at William Morris in the elevator. And some young, attractive girl is the only other person in the elevator. And it sounds like it's going into a hustler letter. I never thought I'd be writing this.

No, but she actually yells, hooray, which I'd never heard someone actually use the word hooray. And she goes, I have an agent. And I thought, well, you know, that and an application for McDonald's should go hand in hand. They think having an agent is the end all. Well, when it's so hard to get an agent, in some ways it is. Yeah. I feel like at least now someone will send me out on things because there's no other way.

Yeah. I mean, you have to wait for the open calls, right? Yeah. I don't think people know this. Too many people know about you, Phil, that you, that you, you kind of stumbled into wanting to be an actor. You just wanted to be funny. You, you, you didn't really have any clear, clear designs on being a character actor or anything like that. I mean, obviously people know you from Raymond and as a writer, but you started out kind of knocking around auditions. Well, when you're a kid, you know, when you watch TV, I don't know about you guys,

but I didn't know there was writing and directing and producing. I watched The Honeymooners and I wanted to be them. Right. I just wanted to be funny. Right. And so when you're in school, the only way to do that is without getting thrown out of class is to be in the school plays. So that's what i did and

i thought that's what i'll do and then i went to college for that and i was a i was a very big hit in high school and college i mean there was no bigger star than me in college and then i graduated moved to new york and nobody cared that's pretty much it it's kind of like when the prettiest girl in her hometown goat moves to la yes you realize there are gorgeous girls working the laundromats out there that's right i was the prettiest girl did you know shows were written at an early age like phil was phil's talking about? Yeah, I kind of understood. Yeah, yeah. That there were writers and stuff.

I remember thinking I knew I had seen trailers, you know, that actors were in. Like, I mean, you know, a movie trailer. Right. You know, with the wheels on it, not a coming attraction. Not a coming attraction, right. And I remember, I think as a little kid, I thought every actor lived in those. And it was a small area where they all lived next to each other. That's cute.

And I think like the Jack Benny show, they all knocked on each other's doors. That was how you imagined it. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and it was like, well, what do you know? It's Jimmy Stewart. He's dropped by. Well, TV perpetuated that. Yeah, in a way.

On Lucy, it looked like everybody knew everybody. On the Jackie Gleason show, everybody was pals, right? And Phil was hardcore. He even liked the Jackie Gleason variety show. Oh, my God, yeah. From Miami Beach. Now, the Jackie Gleason variety show, what I love there is that was that time period, is that was that time period, along with Dean Martin and stuff,

where drinking and smoking were the coolest things in the world. They just did it. That's how they, that's every other breath was a drink and a smoke. That's it. Yeah, or the Carson Show. He was always lighting up. Yes. And you'd see Gleason always always like taking a sip out of a coffee cup and making a face like, like, oh, that's good coffee.

And then he would have the cigarette and it looked like the coolest guy on the planet. I love them. I really love them. I love those shows. You were the the the more realistic sitcoms you were more like a honeymooners odd couple kind of guy you didn't go in for the kind of fantastic 60s television like the the genies and the mr reds and the bewitched you like comedy that was grounded in in reality and and character I watched all those, but, you know, that's because they were on. Sure. That was my criteria.

Is it on? I'll watch it. But I love the shows that were grounded and took place on planet Earth. Right. And didn't break reality for joke's sake. Right. Now, we were talking, Bill Persky, Right. Now, we were talking, Bill Persky, he was complaining about certain TV shows where the joke is the main thing.

Like, right. Like the story and situation is just a supporting thing for the joke that's coming up is what he hated. So if you do that and if you're joke-based, you're only as good as your last joke. Pretty much. Right. But if you build characters that you believe, you can go anywhere with them. You know, one of my favorite moments in TV history is when Art Carney gets – there's an accident in the sewer. Oh, yeah. And Norton is hurt.

And Ralph has that reaction. Well, that moment had never happened in The Honeymooners before. And my heart, I remember, I was like five, six. My heart just broke. I couldn't believe it that something happened to my beloved character, to Art Carney, to Ed Norton. And, of course, you know, yeah. Then I remember Ed Norton says, he goes, Oh, it was not a manhole fell.

A manhole cover fell on my head. Occupational hazard. That's exactly right. On the sword. Yeah, that's the word. A manhole cover just fell on my head. He signs up for the transfusion and he goes by

on the other journey and gives Norton a wave. Norton waves and then he comes up. Bah! What are you doing? Just great stuff. Oh, and then Norton says,

you thought I was hurt. Well, you're my pal. Right? So it was so, like, affirming, life-affirming even to me. I loved it so much and that stayed with me. What are you doing there? affirming, life affirming even to me. I loved it so much. And that stayed with me.

What are you doing here? I was just about to go home. What are you doing here? What am I doing here? I'm here to give you a transfusion in there. You were going to give me a transfusion. You thought I was hurt. Only a guy's greatest power would do that for him. I'm telling you, you're one of nature's noblemen. Ralph, I'll never forget this as long as I live. Mr. Scranton, patient's ready. Will you come in now, please?

Okay. See you later, Norton. Okay. Okay, Ralph. Hey, Doc, Norton. Okay. Okay, Ralph. Hey, Doc, while you got him in there, will you see what you can do about getting that ring off his finger? Where are you? That's what, that's life. You know, it's not all laugh, joke, joke, joke, joke.

We have those moments, and those moments serve to also ground the characters and make you care about them. It also, when you have the dramatic moment, in contrast, it makes the next funny moment all the funnier. Right, because it's an emotional release, too. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you're watching Art Carney, you're watching The Honeymooners, you're not quite, you describe yourself as a kid who watched way too much television. Oh yeah, that's all I did. You're not quite. Because when I went outside, I got hit. I was telling Gilbert a little bit about that. Some bullies. I'm guessing Gilbert,

but a little similar, maybe Gilbert. No, no. I was a tough, cool guy who got laid. I was, I was like James Dean.

It's now that you get hit. There was some bullying going on, Phil? Oh, my goodness, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I'm not careful, it could happen tonight. Let's hope not. Now, here's something that's, because bullying's become a big topic. Yeah. And, you know, it is terrible, blah, blah, blah.

That's Gilbert's ad. Yeah, blah, blah, blah. That's Gilbert's ad. Yeah, blah, blah, blah. It's his PSA. Yes. The more you know. Yes. And, but, is bullying kind of a way of growing up and building strength and a courage about you? I don't know about you, but I think there's two reasons why people go into comedy.

One is so you're not hit by the bully. Yeah. And two is maybe that girl will like me if I make her laugh. Oh, yeah. Right? Yes. Those are the two things. I think that's it. I don't know why else you do it. Yeah. that girl will like me if I make her laugh. Oh, yeah. Right? Yes. Those are the two things.

I think that's it. I don't know why else you do it. Yeah, and I realized making a girl laugh isn't worth shit. Well, I did get a wife out of it. Phil, I— But maybe you're right. Yeah. but maybe you're right yeah i heard you on with brian koppelman and uh you said that uh women are another jew we had brian here you said women are lying when they say that a sense of humor is most important

in a guy when they when they used to say that in playboy magazine yeah well gilbert just said it, right? It's not worth shit. They say it is. They say, oh, I love a funny guy. But they go and date the guy on the motorcycle with the jacket. Yeah. It's like my favorite quote from anyone in that subject was Rachel Hunter, who was a supermodel.

Oh, with Rod Stewart. Yeah, she married Rod Stewart, and she said in an article, Rod Stewart is living proof that a man can laugh you into bed. So the fact that he was an international superstar rock singer had nothing to do with this. It was all, he just had the funniest, like, I remember when I read that, I think, you know, I don't claim to be the greatest God's gift to mankind, but I think I have funnier material than Rod Stewart. I'm sure you do. Good luck with that. Here's another thing that made me think of you, Gilbert, when I heard an interview with Phil. He was saying he doesn't understand people who are still miserable even after they've enjoyed success.

Shouldn't success make you nicer? No. If your dreams come true, shouldn't you be a little nicer? You would think so. No, because what happens is that thing of, oh, I thought it would be the way I pictured it. And it's never the way you picture it. What did you picture? Okay. Rachel Hunter.

Yes, yes. That was number one. You don't have that. And it was two and three. He has a beautiful wife. And I remember, oh, I thought, like it was kind of like when I signed the thing with the devil, that if you're famous and in show business,

you're never depressed, you're never sick, nothing bad will ever happen to you if you're a celebrity. Right. And then when you realize bad stuff does happen, you go, wait a minute, this isn't what I signed on for. You thought celebrities- And you're even more depressed. minute. This isn't what I signed on for. You thought celebrities were even more depressed. It was going to make you invincible somehow. Yes, yes.

I see. But I know. And yes, I get depressed. I'm a person. But you have to step back a little bit and say, look how lucky. Look how lucky we are. Well, there are people who work for a living. Real work.

Look how lucky we are. Well, there are people who work for a living. Real work. I always think whenever I start bitching about my showbiz career, I always think if my father was alive now and me telling him, well, oh, it was so awful. They flew me out there to do this TV show. I made this amount of money and uh oh you know one time their lunch they were five minutes late delivering it to my trailer yes you would get hit by him

yeah and rightly so he was a guy whose hands got dirty he ran a a hardware store. Yeah. Yes. Gilbert's father. But there's millions of people who, we are the, I used to say after like a taping of our Raymond show, the next day when we gather for the table reading, I'd say, I got to tell,

I hope you understand we are not the lucky people. We are the very, very, very lucky people. That's honestly very, very, very lucky people. That's honestly how I feel. That we get to do this and that people come to see us and then they laugh and they watch our TV show and then they pay us way more, I think, than what teachers are worth, right? Of course. It's insane.

Things are out of whack, really. They're out of whack. So we should never, ever complain, ever. You got that, Gilbert? Out loud. Yeah. I always think of my father, and I thought, wow, if I told him this shit that I was depressed about in show business, yeah, he could have, I would welcome him kicking the shit out of me for it.

But we're Jews, and so the body at rest complains. Yeah. I was going to ask if that's a Jewish thing, because I heard you say, Phil, they always find the negative. And I'm a Gentile, so I can't connect. I wouldn't say they. I would say everyone I know who's Jewish. Right. Including me.

So you're a Jew? I never... You hide it very well. And it's a rarity. I should take a lesson from you. It's a rarity to find Jews in TV comedy. Define Jews in TV comedy. Well, the irony is he wrote a show that was an Italian guy, and it was really your family.

Yeah, big, big difference. Right. Big difference, Jews and Italians. Right? All problems are solved with food, and the mother never leaves you alone. It's the same. We're all the same. It's so funny that a lot of shows were like that.

Well, like the Costanzas. Right. They were a family of Jews with an Italian name. I never understood how Larry David became Italian. Yes. The whole series, everybody's Jewish. The whole, all of them are Jews. Yeah.

They're all Jews. It's about four Jews. Don't tell America. You know, they say right, right, Yiddish, cast British. Well, I think it was when Mary Tyler Moore was first going on the air. Not a Jew. Not a Jew. Oh, boy, was she ever not.

And they were originally going to make her a divorced woman. Yeah, correct. And the studio said, no, we can't make you a divorcee because there are two things that the world hates. Divorcees and Jews. Oh, God. And you know who's saying that? The Jewish Network executive. Exactly. Always.

Always. It's true. We hate ourselves, even. So, Phil, just to fill our listeners in. So you love these shows. You knew you wanted to be funny. You wanted to be Art Carney. You tried your hand at acting for a while and gradually.

I was a failure. Well, you're one of the people who created Tony and Tina's Wedding, which was a significant thing. That was a kind of a transition. We wrote a show for ourselves to be in. Yeah, that was a significant thing. That was a kind of a transition. We wrote a show for ourselves to be in. Yeah, that was a smart move. And then I didn't know that we could do such a thing. But desperation leads you to these things. I also, at the same time, a very dear friend of mine, Alan Kirshenbaum, came to my apartment

with a big blue and gray metal box. I said, what's that? He goes, it's called a word processor. This is 1987, right? He says, we're going to write a screenplay. I don't know anything about that. He goes, here, it's not hard. I kind of know what an outline is, and we can, let's write it.

And we wrote it. It took a few months. We had a ball doing it because we didn't know what the hell we were doing. We didn't know how bad we were or good we were. We just didn't know. We're just doing it for fun. Well, we sold that screenplay.

We sold it to HBO. Now remember, this is 30 years ago for $70,000. I had $200 in the bank, right? 70,000. We split $70,000. thousand dollars i had two hundred dollars in the bank right seventy thousand we split seventy thousand dollars i was now a thousandaire right i couldn't believe it and so i went from eating tuna fish for dinner as an actor to eating whatever i wanted so this writing thing could work out yes didn't your mom was it your mom or dad who said, you know how long in life we have to save to put away $70,000?

She went, my father was like doing the horror on the roof. He was so excited that I made so much money all of a sudden. And my mother, why is your father so excited? She got on the phone. I said, we made, what do you get for something like that? I said, we're going to split $70,000. The phone went silent. And she said, do you know we've worked our whole lives to have that in the bank?

That's amazing. It was almost like you little shit. Yeah. All you do is you make your stupid jokes and the world rewards you like that. That shouldn't be. So I feel like, you know, your dad would feel, right? Yes. Like you never worked a day in your life, he thinks.

Yeah. And it's like that story that you just told, that's it in a nutshell. Yeah. Yeah. Did your dad see a little of your success, Gil? No, my father didn't see any of it. Right, right. Yeah.

That's a shame. That's too bad. That's a shame. But, you know, they are proud of you. They love you. All we want is for our kids to do well, but they just can't believe the way the world works. And why was it unfair to us? Yeah.

Right? Oh, absolutely. Alan was a very funny guy, Alan. And Freddie Roman's son, by the way, Alan Kirshenbaum. Oh, yeah. Yeah, a writer who accomplished a lot of things in TV. That's right. And a funny man.

He was my absolute mentor. Even though he was a year behind me in high school, we were best friends, and he's the one who actually got me started in writing. He was the one who encouraged me, and I wouldn't be anywhere without him. He taught me the structure. He made it into sitcoms before I did and thought I could do this. And I never took a class in such a thing, but he taught me in five minutes

the structure of a sitcom. And I guess I had an affinity for it because of all the television I watched instead of going outside with girls. It was in your body, inside of you by that point. Yes. Now, what are some of your complaints about when you watch a sitcom on TV? It's stupid and vulgar.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. I mean, it's easy to make those jokes. I mean, that's the – it's easy to make those jokes, and too many shows get away with those jokes, and that's what passes for the laughs. When a scene opens and right away they're saying vagina. Yeah. That's easy.

You know? I mean, I get it in certain circumstances, but when that's all there is, I'm sorry. It's just, it's not that I'm a prude. It's just not so funny. We did a show on Raymond where the mother goes to sculpture class. Oh, it's a great one. And she makes a giant sculpture of, and it looks like a vagina. We never said the word once, never said it because we made a conscious decision. Wouldn't it be funnier to let the audience fill it in, what that kind of looks like?

All we did was we had somebody goes, it looks like, it looks like, and the audience is like, are they going to say it? Are they going to say it? The studio audience, they're like, where are they going with this? And somebody whispers into the other character's ear. And then you see their face and then look at it again and the whole audience filled it in it was so much more satisfying to say it without saying it yeah and it was such a deeper laugh and that carried through the whole show we never said the word once it was just now you've set up the way the audience is going to react to that thing. Right. It was a communal laugh.

I remember seeing like, you know, one of these reruns of I Love Lucy. Yeah. And the whole show, she couldn't find her wedding ring. Yeah. And then she's having she's eating a cake that she baked that morning. And then you see her make a face and swallow something painfully

and the end joke is that the ring was in the cake and she swallowed it. And that was the end. And I thought, wow. Nowadays, at the beginning Shitting the ring. Yeah, yeah. Shitting the ring, exactly. She'd swallow it at the beginning. Shitting the ring. Yeah, yeah. Shitting the ring.

Exactly. Being, she'd swallow it at the beginning. Yep. And then she'd be taking laxative and enemas. And they'd be jokes about digging through the shit. And, yeah. Let's hope not. Look who I'm talking to about going blue.

You are the funniest. You are, I mean, can I just stop the show for a second? Sure. To compliment you. I don't think I've ever laughed as hard as your run with Norm MacDonald about the combination that you did of sexual act with the disease that you were going to get. Yes. And whether that was worth it. Yeah. I thought that was one of the greatest runs in the history of comedy.

I really do. You're such a genius at this stuff because of the way you speak and the way you look and the way you don't expect this stuff to come out of your mouth. And then it does in the most outrageous ways. But the audience still knows you're a sweetheart and you're not a vulgar person, and yet you're saying the grossest things imaginable. I just love you. Thank you. I'm not sure those are

mutually exclusive, that he's a sweetheart but not a vulgar person. Does that have the Catherine Zeta-Jones bit mixed in there? Yeah. God, that was... I recommend everybody listening to go on YouTube and look at that. Yeah, it's from a bit I do in my act. It's as funny as you've ever been.

Wow. Wow. That is tremendous. I love Norm. Norm is awesome. A very funny man. Don't go away. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. all your favorite games are in the palm of your hand. Play the classics like Blackjack, roulette, slots, and baccarat.

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It's Gilbert and Frank's Amazing Colossal Podcast. Phil, tell us about, so Kirshenbaum comes into your life and you sell a script and suddenly you're a, you're a big time writer. You sold a script to HBO. It never got made. Right. You know, we wrote it. We have it. So 1987, we write it for our favorite actor.

It's a suburban detective and we write it for Alan Arkin. And we sell it to HBO. Yeah. And HBO promptly says, great script, who are you going to cast? And we said, Alan Arkin. And they said, he doesn't open a movie.

The end. Oh, geez. And that was that. And then we got a call from somebody who had gotten the script somehow, wanted to meet with us, thought it was perfect script. Let's go. All right, we'll take the meeting with Jerry Lewis. If you look in the dictionary, the opposite of Alan Arkin is Jerry Lewis. I have not heard this story, but I was going to ask you about Jerry Lewis.

So this is what happened. Well, now that he's passed, I can tell the story. Okay. Good timing. It was unbelievable. He was, it's a suburban detective and he's, am I telling tales out of school? He was, he could be pompous a little bit. Dude, tell.

Did you, did you ever deal with him? Did you ever meet him? I, I met him a couple of times and I can happily say that famous line, well, he was always nice to me. Great. Yes. By the way, very nice to me, too. Yeah. He thought we were so talented.

We were kids, right? Yeah. He called us kids. He called us little pishers, right? But he said, this script we could film tomorrow. He couldn't have been nicer to us. But at the same time, he was holding court at lunch. And he said, now let me tell you, I see this character.

I would see him as Jerry number three. I'm like, what? And he goes, so for what I mean is like, let's say the character is a waiter. And I'm like, yeah, inside I'm thinking, but he's not a waiter. He's a clerk. And he says, if he was jury number one, it would be like this. And he stands up over me and he goes, oh, I lied, mister. Did you want a thing?

And he knocks over my water and his chair falls over. I'm sorry. La, la, la. Right? That's Jerry 1. Yeah. He goes, Jerry 3 is this. And he resets my water.

He resets the chair. And he does the whole thing again. Oh, would you like your water oh i'm sorry oh i knocked my chair oh he just does everything he just did just slowly that's jerry three and i'm looking at alan and we're just i just got to hollywood you know i can't believe i'm meeting j Lewis, but this is insane. Right. Yes. Great.

And this is not going to be good. But he did make you laugh because it was him. And it was like, you know, waiter came over. I have dessert. And he would just stop the conversation. He'd go, cookie. I love a cookie. And so you laugh because he's doing Jerry Lewis right in front of you for you.

That was like that. But he goes, somebody mentioned France or Paris and he just goes, Paris. Hey, that's my room. Yeah. Hilarious. I mean, I remember all this stuff. This was, you know, 1989. Wow. I remember every second. I remember hearing him in an interview go, when he was doing The Nutty Professor, he Then what disturbed me about the Buddy Love character is how I was able to perform it. And I thought, could there be a tiny part of my personality that's like Buddy Love?

Holy shit. Self-aware. He had no clue that he was Buddy Luck. Not a clue. It's amazing. It is. Isn't it? Was there a Jerry 2?

He gave you Jerry 1 and Jerry 3. I'm going to say a little faster than Jerry 3. Not as fast as Jerry 1. That's my guess. That's a great story. He goes, I could get this financed in France in two minutes. And he promptly didn't. And we never saw him again.

Did you ever meet Alan Arkin and tell him you had this thing back in the day for him? I've never met Alan Arkin. I love Alan. Who doesn't love Alan Arkin? Oh, well, we've got to make it a mission to get this to Alan. Him and Walter Matthau, my favorites. Gilbert shares your love of Walter Matthau. Oh, Walter Matthau. Come on.

Can you believe kids today, they don't know who he is? Isn't that sad? Come on. Can you believe kids today they don't know who he is? Isn't that sad? Well, we were at lunch with someone who we mentioned Groucho Marx. Oh, yeah. And this girl had no idea who Groucho Marx was. Well, in fairness, she was 22 or something or 23 or something.

Yeah. But listen, kids don't know who John Belushi is even. So that's right. Yeah. Right? Favor Phil with a little of your Walter Matthau. He'll appreciate it. For six months, I lived alone in this apartment.

I was despondent, disgusted, and alone. And then you walked in, my dearest and closest friend, and after three months of close personal contact, I'm about to have a nervous breakdown. Oh, my God. I love it. It's so, I just, who's funnier than him in the Sunshine Boys? Oh, just great.

How great is that? And Matthau and Arkin, what they also have in common is when they're in a dramatic role, they can make you laugh. There's something so naturally funny about them. Matthau and Charlie Varick. Matthau had the world's greatest face. Yes. You know, it looked like Matthau had the world's greatest face. Yes. You know, it looked like three pounds of flunking on his face. And it just did like a, what are those dogs?

The droopy dogs. Oh, the Sharpay? Yeah, it was like that. Well, you got to meet him. I got to meet him. I got to meet him. I couldn't believe it. This is the most Hollywood story.

I go, I'm with Alan. it. This is the most Hollywood story. I go. I'm with Alan. We're coming on the lot at Universal. And outside the guard gate, as we're waiting to drive in, it's Walter Matthau. He's standing. Nobody stands outside the guard gate. He's standing outside the guard gate. I'm like, Alan, it's Walter Matthau.

Whoa, whoa. Rolled down the window. I said, hello, sir. Can we say hello to you? And he leans this giant body into our car. He's in the car. His body's in the car. And he says, hello, boys. And I said, oh, my God, I love you so much.

You're my favorite actor. And now there's a honk behind us because we're at the guard gate. People are waiting behind the thing. And he leans his body outside the car and turns to the traffic. And he goes, can't you see we're having a conversation? And then he leans his body back into the car. You were saying? Fantastic.

And I'm crying because he's my hero. Because I love this man so much. It was so, oh, my God. he's the sweetest, greatest, funniest. He's everything you want in a person. You never met him, Gil? I urge people, please go watch. Do you know the Broadway production of The Odd Couple? Was him.

Oh, yeah. And Carney. And Carney. And Art Carney. Can you imagine? If I could go back to one production in history, I'd be able to go see that show. Us too. Right?

Us too. Can you imagine a better thing? I remember being in an event with Walter Matthau, but I never officially met him. And I remember being thrilled because he's Walter Matthau. Yeah. because he's Walter Matthau. Yeah. Oh, and I remember in The Odd Couple,

there's one part where Jack Lemmon calls him to ask if he wants him to make coleslaw, and he misses an important major play at the ballgame. Oh, sure. He misses a triple play. Are you crazy? Are you out of your mind? That's a great math, though. You've got to see that, and you've got to see the Sunshine Boys,

and you've got to see everything he ever did. Oh, and the fortune cookie. The fortune cookie. Yeah, we could give recommendations all day. he ever did. Oh, and The Fortune Cookie. The Fortune Cookie is gorgeous. Yeah, we could give recommendations all day. He's even good as a heavy in Charade. Turns up as a bad guy. Very good. Yeah, and Don Siegel's Charlie Varick, if you haven't seen it recently,

is absolutely terrific. Where you say he manages to be light and funny in a non-comedic part. And even those movies with Glenda Jackson, like House Calls. Oh, yeah, House Calls is good. He's so charming and great, right? Yeah, always good. And I remember in The Odd Couple 2

when he doesn't want Felix to kill himself, when Felix says, you know, is this the 12th floor? And he goes, no, no, it's not the 12th floor. It's the 11th. You'd only heard yourself here. And then later on when Felix pisses him off because he ruins a date with the Pigeon Sisters, Matthau is walking past and he swings the window open,

wide open. And he goes, it's the 12th floor, not the 11th. But even a movie that has no business being funny, like Grumpy Old Men, is hilarious.

He's always good. Always good. Oh, I don't think there was ever a bad performance. Plaza Suite, we could go on. I think we're doing

a public service by turning your younger listeners on to this guy. Oh, we do could go on. I think we're doing a public service by turning your younger listeners on to this guy. Oh, we do all the time. Tell that wonderful story about the reading of the Sunshine Boys when Burns came in. Because it was originally Benny. That's exactly right. So it was going to be

Jack Benny and Walter Matthau. And they must, I think they filmed for two weeks. Yeah, there's footage. I need that film. I think there's something on weeks. Yeah, there's footage. I need that film. I think there's something on YouTube. Where can I see? Because Jack Benny, another one of my all-time favorites. Yeah.

Where is that footage? But anyway, Jack Benny dies. They shut down for a while while they try to convince Jack Benny's best friend to take over, George Burns. And George had to be really talked into it. And George Burns was now very, very old, older than Walter Matthau, certainly, by maybe 10 years. And they didn't know if he could do it or not. And he finally agrees and comes to table reading for the movie,

the first day of the movie. And everyone's gathered around the table, and they start to read. And George Burns' character doesn't enter until page 25 or something, but he's not, he's not, he's just staring straight ahead at the table. He's not opening his script. So as they get closer and closer to page 25, everybody's looking at each other like, are you going to tell him to open the script? You know, somebody taking care of George and nobody has the balls to say anything. And here it is. It's

page 24. He's still not opening the script. And then his cue line comes and he nails the line without looking. And he never opens the script and he nails the line without looking. And he never opens the script and he knows the whole script on day one by heart. Wow. Wow. About that. And the people were floored and cut to George Burns wins an Oscar.

Sure did. For that role. He sure did. Yes. Yes. Ultimate pro. Yeah. Did you ever meet George?

No, no. So, so when I first got to town, um, um, Yes, Ultimate Pro. Did you ever meet George? No. So when I first got to town, I'm working at Hollywood Center Studios on a perfectly terrible sitcom. And there's an office building across from the lot. And somebody takes me over there. and somebody takes me over there and on the office building directory outside, doctor so-and-so, dentist so-and-so, podiatrist so-and-so, George Burns, this guy, next guy. You're like, what? George Burns? What do you mean? His production office is here? Here, come with me. And you just walk right in, down the hall, you start to smell cigar smoke. the hall, you start to smell cigar smoke. What? And you go and there's a wooden door. It says George Burns and it's open. And there's a secretary who looks about 90 sitting there.

And my friend goes, is, is George in? Sure. Go right in, go right in. We walk in, he's smoking a cigar. He's sitting in a director's chair. He's talking to a young man of 80. And he says, come on in, boys. Have a seat. And we get to sit there and talk as long as we want. And he loved having visitors. He was 99 at this time, maybe.

And I would bring everyone i knew i would do what happened to me which was a surprise waiting at the end of this hall come with me people thought i was abducting them and then they saw friggin george burns like mount rushmore you're coming i brought my wife i brought my monica i'm taking you somewhere today don't ask me questions well she she was like i'm busy i don't have a come with me And we walk in and he's sitting there. He says, hello, sweetheart. And she burst into tears. Oh my gosh. That's great. And after about 10 minutes, he says to my wife, he goes, you remind me of Gracie. Well, let me tell you, my wife, she would have thrown me off the roof right there to go marry George.

Yeah, wow. Wowee. Right? Never forget it. What a story. Never forget it. My favorite George Burns story is some comic I knew was in a restaurant, and he sees Burns having lunch by himself.

And he walks over and he goes, look, I don't want to bother you. Just want to say i'm a fan and he burns invites him to sit down with him and and they're talking and burns is telling stories and the nicest possible uh uh my friend asked him what he doesn't like about comedy now. And he goes, well, you know, it's dirty now. And back then we wouldn't do dirty material. It wasn't respectful of the audience. And then he continues talking. And then he finishes lunch.

He's putting his jacket on. The manager comes over and goes, are you leaving now, Mr. Burns? And he goes, yeah, I got to hurry home. I hired a teenage faggot to punch me up the ass. Holy cow. Wow. That's a terrible story. Oh, my God.

Where did you hear that? Yes, I'm coming, Toby. Why do you have to ruin it, Gilbert? We had a beautiful thing going. It was so nice, your story. Gilbert Gottfried, everybody. We'll be right back. You want to take back that statement about him not being vulgar, Phil?

Oh, my God. Tell him about Peter O'Toole, too, because this is another legend that you actually got to not only meet, but spend significant time with. Well, you know what Groucho said about Peter O'Toole? Oh, a double phallic name? Yes, yes. Oh, a double phallic name? Yes. Somebody told me that Peter O'Toole wanted to do a sitcom.

This is the God's honest truth. This would have been 1994. He did a movie with John Goodman called King Ralph. Sure. And John was on his hiatus from Roseanne. And when John told him about the money to be made in sitcoms, Peter O'Toole said, I would like to do a sitcom. So we get this call. Would you like to do a sitcom?

I had a partner at the time, Oliver Goldstick. Would you like to write a sitcom for Peter O'Toole? Boy, would I. Yes, I would. Yes. Of course. Because he's the greatest actor. There's very few people.

Somebody else's kids probably don't know. Oh, of course not. Well, the people who listen to this show know. Well, it's frigging Lawrence of Arabia. Yeah. Okay. So what do you do with him? Well, you do a show where maybe he's a guy in exile and he reunites with his estranged

daughter and the daughter has a grandson who needs Peter O'Toole in his life. He's a nerdy kid, right? And it's about trying to have a normal life if you're this woman, a dental hygienist. And Lawrence of Arabia is in your kitchen and won't leave, right? So he loves this idea. And we write it. And he gives us notes. And I'm telling you, it's the best notes I ever got on anything.

They were so articulate and so helpful and so brilliant. Wow. We were in love. Now we're in Los Angeles and he's in London and we're talking on the phone and he's writing to us and we can't believe that we actually are corresponding with Peter frigging O'Toole. We do one more draft and he says, I'm in. I think we should meet halfway. I'll see you in New York next week. And we fly to New York and Peter O'Toole flies to New York and we spend a day with Peter O'Toole, a whole day. It was like my favorite year in a day. It was unbelievable. You walk down the street with Peter O'Toole

and cab drivers are going, hey, Peter O'Toole, how you doing? Hello, young man. He's a scarf flowing like the roves in Lawrence of Arabia. Oh, wow. You're walking with him. We're having lunch at the Oak Bar in the Plaza Hotel. It was absolutely magical.

And now we're going to, this was for NBC and now we're gonna this was for nbc now we're gonna start casting the other roles my phone rings at home i don't know how this man got my number but it's judd hirsch he says i hear you're doing a sitcom with peter o'toole i'm in what wow this is like people are calling us to work with this man, right? I said, it's kind of a minor role. He goes, I'm in. I'll do it. Like that.

And we start casting the other roles. We found a kid to play the nerdy grandson, David Krumholtz. Never knew actor. Okay. You know, he went on to do many things, and he's a wonderful, talented kid. So we're like, this is really happening, and we're about to cast the daughter now, the Peter O'Toole's daughter and the mother of David Krumholtz. And suddenly our phone rings again, and it's someone from NBC.

And they say that the president of NBC would rather not have someone with an accent on the network. And the show is dead. Yes. Is that unbelievable? Wow. Peter O'Toole is someone with an accent. Oh, wow. Yeah.

And it wasn't the era where you could just say, well, we'll go to Netflix with this, or we'll go to Hulu with this. There were only a couple of games in town, right? By the way, I shopped it. I went to every other network. Oh, you did? I said, I got this and this and this. And they said, isn't he kind of old?

He was 60-something. Wow. Yeah. Wow. And then we tried to do something later, and then nobody wanted that. He was too old. And then he died. But during that entire time, that 10-year process,

we stayed in touch. We visited him in London. He was great with my kids. He came to my house. I have movie night on Sunday. He came to movie night. Peter O'Toole in my kitchen. It was unbelievable.

People were freaking out. They couldn't speak. I showed him Beyonce. He'd never seen Beyonce. I put Beyonce on the screen and he was leaning forward like, what is this? What is this? He was in love. Didn't you say, let's watch Lawrence of Arabia, but he said he'd rather watch- I said, yes, what movie of yours can we show on movie night? He says, if you show a movie of mine, I will not be attending. Love that. And I said, oh, okay, we can show whatever you want. Is there something you'd like? He goes, Cary Grant.

He didn't even hesitate. Right? I said, oh, Cary Grant, you like Cary Grant? Yeah, I do. I said, is there a particular movie? He goes, Talk of the Town. He didn't even let me finish. He knew exactly what he wanted to see.

And Talk of the Town is a very interesting movie. I recommend it. It's from the 50s. It's really good and really interesting. And when it was over, Peter O'Toole, in my little movie room, led a discussion. Oh, wow. It's one of the best nights of my life. That's wonderful.

Yeah. And you're still doing, I read about it in the LA Times, you're still doing the Sunday night pizza nights at the house. Come on. Come when you're in LA. You're both invited. How sweet. Now I got to go to LA.

You know about this? He has a pizza kitchen. He has a pizza oven installed in his house. He's hardcore. kitchen he has a pizza oven installed in his house he's hardcore and he has uh he has whoever he ever whoever he wants to come over the house and hold court and show the films he has them come over the house james l brooks came over william friedkin came over william friedkin came over and showed what the french connection both both french connection incredible and then uh two different nights and stories you know incredible. It's like this could be a TV show, just movie night.

I was going to say that's a show. That's the next thing I want to pitch to Netflix. Yeah, and he has movie theater seating. Oh, geez. Like the closest thing to that would be like I, I mean, I heard like Hefner would always have movie night. Yeah, just like him. That like Peter Sellers and Robert Culp and all

those people. Yeah, it's pretty wonderful. I've been doing movie nights since I'm 15 years old. Jeez. Because when I was 15 this new thing came out called HBO and if you remember that was the first time you could see an uncut, a rated R movie in your house.

That didn't exist. There was no VCR. This was HBO. You paid money and you could see something maybe. You could see if you're 15, you're going to see some action maybe. Wow. And so every Saturday night, I had my two other loser friends who couldn't get dates over,

and maybe we were going to see something because a new R-rated movie was every Saturday night. We'd order pizza. Well, this endured through college, and then here comes VCRs, and then here comes Laserdiscs, right? You were a Laserdisc guy too, weren't you? Yeah, that's in that category of English words that sound Yiddish. And I just, the TV got a little bigger as I started to get more jobs in Hollywood, right? Until now, I have this dedicated like screening room. It's fantastic.

And a pizza oven in the house. Don't order out. We're coming over. What's so strange, what I always think about is when I was a kid, I mean, there was nothing, no good jerk-off material available. It's like, you know, you'd look at Marilyn and the Munsters and it was a pretty girl. That's sad. Why is Gilbert

closing the door when watching the Munsters? Yeah. And nowadays kids can watch porn when they're like one year old. Things have changed. It's funny you bring up HBO in the 70s because I remember Susan George in the movie Mandingo with Ken Norman and James Mason.

The most shockingly, unintentionally funny movie of all time. It may be. It may be. It is so wrong. Yes. Gilbert, you know this movie? I remember it. Mandingo.

Yeah, yeah. Susan George is what stays with me. It is the most politically incorrect movie ever. It's wretched. You can't believe it. You scream with laughter because it's so wrong. Yeah. It's so bad.

But that's what comes to mind when you say the early TNA of HBO in the 70s. You can't. That one. in the 70s. That one. Do you remember when HBO first came on the air, they would fill up hours of like these

girls in leotards doing aerobicize. Yep, that's right. No one would talk. They wouldn't instruct you. It would just be music and it was like porn. They were zooming on these girls

sweating with spandex. Was that HBO or something else? What? Was it HBO? Was it definitely HBO or was it another cable thing? Oh, I don't know. I thought it was HBO. Was it Cinemax? Early Cinemax? Oh, could have been Cinemax. It was little videos. I remember. Yes. Little videos of like aerobicized.

Yes. Yes, exactly. Yes. Little videos of like aerobicized. Yes. Yes, exactly. Yes. Right? Yeah. I'm sure I remember. I just don't remember the channel. Yeah. But it may as well be HBO.

Yeah. Someone is going to tweet us and tell us. Of course. Phil, you've noticed by now there's no chronology here and we fly around all over the place. Do what you like. But this I want to talk about too because we're talking about your love of movies, and you bought LaserDisc. You're such a purist. I saw a video of you going crazy.

You were turned loose in the Criterion closet. Oh, Gilbert, you got to do that. Yeah. You know the Criterion collection? Oh, yeah. The DVDs? It's like a film class in a box right because they have the commentaries and all the extras oh and they do these beautiful digital restorations

on blu-rays and dvds and they they they were the first ones to do the the laser discs box that that that had the the best the best uh comedy lesson i ever got was from cindy pollack take talking you through uh tootsie oh sure, sure. That you can get that. Yeah. And you're, you're on the Tootsie criterion. You're on the Tootsie. I'm on the new one.

I'm on the new one because I, I know so much about Tootsie cause I, I kind of worked on a Broadway musical for a little while about it. So I became a Tootsie expert. And so they have me talking, uh, to the camera. Yeah.

About, about the, the show and, and, uh, yeah and the movie. I don't know if a better comedy has come out since then. Do you? I can't think of one.

It's perfect. It's a perfect film. Maybe Borat. Borat has the biggest laugh. Funny. Maybe bigger laughs, but for a film, for just a quality of filmmaking, that's a perfect movie. To genius uh movie yeah you know you've got larry gelbart working on that elaine may ghosting yeah yeah and murray shiskel and everybody else and i remember dustin hoffman's

character when he's his male character i thought well it's dustin ho Hoffman doing a self-parody of Dustin Hoffman. Right. But then we heard it was, what's his name we've had on the show from Hot Rock? Oh, Ron Liebman. Ron Liebman. Yeah, we had Ron Liebman here. People have said it was Ron Liebman he was doing. That's a rumor.

Yeah. That's who he was doing? Well, I can tell you that the filmmakers... The difficult, uncompromising actor. Okay, listen. The filmmakers will tell you that the whole joke of Tootsie is that that's Dustin Hoffman.

Yeah, that's what we thought. Yeah. Some people have said there's a Ron Liebman thread in there. I don't know where that came from. But he was difficult enough without having to play Ron Liebman. By the way, one step further.

The movie Get Shorty, where Danny DeVito is the actor, he's doing Dustin Hoffman. That's based on Dustin Hoffman. Get Shorty. That's right. Did you ever read William Goldman's book, Adventures in the Screen Trade? Of course.

There's all that great stuff about Hoffman and Olivier making Marathon Man and him just driving everybody crazy. Yeah. It has that famous line where Hoffman stays up for two nights in a row so he's good and tired for the scene where the interrogation scene. Sure. Olivier says, you stayed up for two nights? And he says, yeah, yeah. He goes, you know what? You should try acting. That's a great story. But Phil's in this video I'm going to show you, and he's recommending, they turned him loose in the Criterion Vault, and he's recommending things, not only Tootsie, but he's recommending wonderful

stuff like Sweet Smell of Success and Sullivan's Travels, movies we've talked about on this show. Gilbert, you'd have a ball in that closet. Yeah. It's the world's best closet. It's just filled with all their stuff. And they let you take whatever you want if you let them film you. Is that New York or L.A.? New York.

Oh, Gilbert. A field trip for you. Robert Osborne had him on, Phil, and he got to pick a couple of movies for Essentials. That was so much fun to do. That's my dream. I love it. Because we were sitting there, I thought,

wow, this is my job. This is my work today, sitting in a big easy chair with Robert Osborne talking movies. And I thought, this is what I'm getting a check for. And what were your movies that you picked? Okay.

I picked Todd Browning's Freaks. Yeah. The Conversation with Gene Hackman. Great one. Yeah. Oh, the original of Mice and Men with Lon Chaney Jr. and Burgess Meredith. Right.

And The Swimmer with Burt Lancaster. I love that movie. Oh, yes. There you go. I love you for loving that movie. That's a great movie. People don't know that movie. Years ago, I was watching TV,

and I was about ready to shut the tv off and and this movie starts with burt lancaster is telling people that all of his friends have swimming pools and he can swim his way home in an imaginary river through by going in each of. And I remember thinking, OK, I'm in. Remember who one of the housewives was? Well, it was Joan Rivers. Yeah. Joan Rivers.

She was in it. And Marvin Hamlisch wrote a great score. Everybody should see that movie. Yeah. Talk about they don't make them like that anymore. That would never. You'd never go to a movie theater to see that movie. Talk about they don't make them like that anymore. You'd never go to a movie theater to see that movie. It's low concept. They're not making that.

It would never get made. It's a metaphor. It's a beautiful, it's just a work of art, I think. I find it hypnotic. Yeah, great. Gilbert, you have very good taste, Gilbert. That's the first time anyone ever said that.

The term Gilbert Gottfried and good taste. Yes, right. I've never gone hand in hand. Yes, you'd never know with your potty mouth. Isn't that amazing, Phil? Yeah. You also both like- The potty mouth is like a cover

i told you he's an artiste sensitive kid in there yes he's an artiste you also both like night of the hunter oh the best yes yeah so my first job in hollywood i come out you know you have to get lucky what are they doing when you first land in Hollywood? What job are you going to get as a baby writer? Who's going to hire you? Well, how would you like to work? You want to work sitcoms, right? Yes, we do.

How would you like to work on the Robert Mitchum sitcom? What? Yeah. What a concept. What a concept. I'm like, what? Well, they made a TV movie. Remember TV movies? Yeah. What a concept. What a concept. I'm like, what? Well, they made a TV movie. Remember TV movies?

Sure. Oh, yes, yes. He played a homeless man in Central Park in living in a refrigerator box, and three children who are recently orphaned come up to him and say, would you pretend to be our grandpa so we're not split up and put into separate foster homes in exchange for which you'll have a roof over your head. And Robert Mitchum says, okay. And that's the movie. This movie, they tested the movie. It became the highest testing anything in NBC history.

Okay. Tested higher than the Cosby Show of the 80s. Cheers. This Family for Joe, it was called highest testing. So they had to make a sitcom out of it, right? So now Robert Mitchum is going to do a four camera sitcom in front of a

studio audience. It was mind blowing Robert Mitchum. So I take the job. Why? Because I want to keep eating whatever I want. And we get there and we meet the other writers. We're the youngest ones. Talk about forgetting the past. The older writers in the room have never seen a Robert Mitchum movie. How's that even possible? They've heard the name, but they'd never seen his work.

I said, you're coming over to my house. I have a VCR. I have a cassette of Night of the Hunter. And I put in Night of the Hunter for the other writers to show them. And they laugh at it. They laugh at it because it has surrealism in it. Because it's not, because it's poetic. Because it's a nightmare on film.

Because there are close-ups of frogs, you know. And they run a little bit, you know, a little, it's a little exaggerated. Because it's a dream. They don't get it. And as they're leaving my house, great movie, Phil, like I'm an idiot. Wow. I think, oh my God, I am in a world of shit.

Wow. This is not going to go well. Listen, I thought I'd meet Mitchum. It's my great honor to meet Robert Mitchum. Couldn't have been nicer. Had a bunch of Hollywood stories. I could ask him about Deborah Kerr in Heaven Knows Mr. Alice. I love that one.

He would tell me stories. I was the only one interested. Why? I'm in frigging Hollywood. I'm the only one who cares about the past, who cares about this great film actor's career? Yes. But God damn it, if he didn't, again, he knew every single line. He never complained.

I said, do you like doing this? At one point, because it was truly shitty. And he says, I'll never forget. he goes, I'm a plumber. I show up, I do my job, I get paid, I go home. He had the most professional attitude of anyone I've ever met. That's something. And this show, I started to think maybe it has a chance because he's truly funny human being. And so maybe, remember like William Demarest in My Three Sons?

Sure. Yeah. Uncle Charlie. Uncle Charlie. And he was really gruff. And that's where the laughs came from, from him being like, get out of here, you rotten kids. Right? So I thought maybe there's a chance that

he could be like that, that he takes the gig to have the roof over his head, but he really hates little kids and dogs, right? And so that's where the humor is coming from. Well, the very first moment of the very first scene in the very first episode that we're doing in front of a live audience, you have a Brady Bunch looking set and it's all nice and beautiful. And there's a ding dong. And from offstage, you hear, I'll get it, Robert Mitchum. And the kitchen door swings open and Robert Mitchum's wearing an apron. And on his way to the door, he stops at the kitchen table and arranges the flowers and then answers the door. Well, the show is dead right there. Because you took Robert Mitchum and cut his balls off right away.

Why did they do this? Because they wanted to make sure he was likable. Yeah, big mistake. The worst word in comedy. Right. Next! Grandpa. worst word in comedy. Right. Next! Grandpa, are you going to tell me where babies come from? Yes, I am.

Okay, I'm ready. Well, when a man and a woman love each other very much and they want a baby they uh they go into the garden and uh what if they don't have a garden well they uh they go to a florist and uh they uh pick out a flower they pick a flower a pink flower if they want a girl baby, and a blue flower if they want a boy baby. And they hold it very tight, and they wish very, very hard. And that's it. Oh, thank you, Grandpa. Oh, you're welcome.

How could they not even know what they had? This is a guy who's been... The show lasted seven episodes. I'm new off the boat, and I knew. My grandmother would friggin' know. Wow. You got a brand with Robert Mitchum, and they don't even know what to do with it. A guy who spent 40 years building a character.

Yes. Yeah. You know what I... When you were talking about Night of the Hunter, I remember being at Saturday Night Live and me and two of the writers watched the original Wolfman. And afterwards I said, I really like that movie. And they said, oh yeah, we do too. It's so bad. You both had the same experience.

There's no sense of style, of history, of what they were doing. Take a class, people. There's more to just what's right in front of you. There could be thought behind these choices that you think are odd. You know? I don't know.

It's funny. You both had a similar experience. You were trying to educate people, and they missed the point entirely. By the way, I wasn't even trying to educate. I was just trying to turn them on to something great. Share something good. Yes. Yeah, of course.

And you were the kid in the group, of course, which makes it even funnier. These are veteran guys. You're, what, 20 or 21. Oh, and you know, as far as forgetting people, I remember a short while ago, I was watching, I think, Harper on TV. Yeah, I love that one. William Goldman. Yeah.

Paul Newman is there talking to Robert Wagner. And Robert Wagner is joking with him, and he goes into a James Cagney imitation. Right. And I remember thinking one, Oh, see now people watching this, they don't know who James Cagney is. Yup.

And then it hit me. They don't know who the fuck Paul Newman is. True. Right. Yeah. Which is unbelievable. Unbelievable. Is that sad?

Yeah. And like when, when my kids are growing up, they're, they're, they're grown up now. One is 23 and one is 20. They didn't want to see movies that were older than two years.

Yes. Let alone black and white. Black and white, it was like, why don't you just stick pencils in my eyes? See, Gilbert's done a good job with Max because you can get Max to watch the old horror films. Yeah. His son is eight. What, eight now? Yeah. I get Max to watch the old horror films. Yeah. His son is, what, eight now? Yeah. I get him.

I used to drill him. He likes horror? Yeah. I used to say, okay, who played Frankenstein? He goes, Boris Karloff. Oh, that's not adorable. Who was the wolfman? Lon Chaney Jr.

Oh, that's good. Isn't that great? You've done well. Yes. There was one black and white clip that my kids loved. Tell me if your kid, if you've shown this to your boy. In It's a Gift,

W.C. Fields. Yeah. The Mr. Muckle scene. Mr. Muckle! With the light bulbs. You know it, Gilbert? You know that scene? No! Okay, please go home tonight and go to YouTube and search for Mr. Muckle W.C. Fields. I promise you will die laughing.

You know the scene. Wow. Yeah. I don't want to give anything away. It's a blind guy. A blind guy in a store. Blind and kind of deaf, too. Right, right, right.

Doubly funny. I'm going to make a segue here, Phil, because we're talking about Robert Mitchum, and I watched Friends of Eddie Coyle a couple of weeks ago, which is also wonderful. Co-starring your late friend and colleague, Peter Boyle, who Gilbert and I just adore. And he's come up on this show, not just for things like Young Frankenstein, but we talk about him in Joe and that movie and Hardcore and so many good taxi drivers, so many good things. I'll tell you two facts maybe you don't know about. We'd love to hear them. One, he studied to be a monk.

Wow. He went to the seminary. I said, why did you give it up? He goes, not enough girls. And the second thing I think that people don't know about him, do you know who the best man at his wedding was? His best man? No.

John Lennon. Oh, my God. They were buddies. Wow. They met because the girl he married was a writer for Rolling Stone. And she came to the Young Frankenstein set to interview Peter. Oh, I love it. And so she meets him in the makeup. And she falls in love with him anyway.

Oh, geez. I love it. Isn't that great? Yeah. The scariest night of her life was the honeymoon when he took the makeup off. I remember meeting Peter Boyle, and this was after Raymond was off the air. And he was at some event, and he was really, really in bad health. Yeah, yeah.

And he was like, you know, know sitting his face was drawn his eyes were cloudy and and i remember this was both funny and sad at the same time because i said oh well now raymond's off the air what are you gonna do And he goes, look for more work. Oh, I know. He never wanted to give up. He never wanted to, you know, that's what kept him going as long as he could. What a sweetie pie. You know, the first year of Raymond, Ray himself had to move out here,

and he was very nervous. And he got like an apartment that he wanted to share with one of his his fellow comedy guys, Tom Caltabiano. And so they got an apartment down the hall in Century City from Peter Boyle, who also was here tentatively. There was going to move out here. We didn't know if the show was going to work or not. We didn't know how long it would last. But Peter Boyle took him under his wing and showed him Hollywood and took him out to dinner and was his real, you know, pal. Wow. That's a nice story. You know, Ray wouldn't have acclimated as well without him.

Was that personally rewarding? It must have been, Phil, to see you cast these people. They come from different worlds. To see them not only gel as a unit, as a television unit, but jealous as friends jealous kind of a family it was all right thanks for the setup what do you what do you miss about it was one of the joys of my life. What do I miss? The food on the set. I know the food.

I know you miss the food, but you miss the writer's room. Do you miss the— I miss every—I don't miss doing the show, believe it or not. I love doing the show. I loved every second of it. I appreciated it as I was happening. Like I said, we were the very, very, very lucky people. I treasured every second.

But when it was done, it was done. And you know, one of the axioms of show business is, you've got to get off the stage before somebody says, hey, you should get off the stage. And so we ended it, and we were even luckier. We got to end

our show when we wanted. We weren't canceled. We weren't fired. When we had run out of ideas, we said, let's quit before we become lousy. Right? So the only thing I miss from the experience are my friends, are seeing them every day. And, of course, we've lost Peter, right? Of course.

Doris too. Right? Even one of the boys. That's sad. People ask me, are you going to do a reboot of... No. No. That's a sad opening scene.

What's the scene? We're coming back from mom and dad's funeral? That's not fun for the people. Yeah. You get to, the show lives in reruns. Why not remember it in the happy time? You know, even the Honeymooners, something I loved, when they did the specials later.

The musical Honeymooners. It was never good. Well, also they did those reunions in the 70s were painful. Yes, you like seeing them because they're your childhood friends. But do you want to remember them like that? Or you want to remember them as they were? The reruns are, thank God, they're special. I remember the new Honeymooners.

Jackie Gleason's there with that orange-brown tan. And I'm thinking, how does a Brooklyn bus driver get a tan like that? And he would have a pinky ring. And it was like, and also— You knew you were looking at Jackie Gleason now, not Ralph Crandon. Yeah. And once again, what happens with a lot of these classic comics, you know, like the Three Stooges and everything, you're going, oh, my God. You know, now at their age, it's sad that they're in this little apartment without a TV. It's not funny anymore.

Well, yeah. Yeah. And it's in color, which it's never supposed to not funny anymore. Well, yeah. And it's in color, which it's never supposed to be. No. Right, right, right. They did those reunions in the 70s when they were older men that were really hard to watch. You know, it's like Godfather 3. I'm just going to pretend that didn't exist. Yeah.

You and a lot of other people. It was so weird because Godfather 3 looked like it was made by people who never saw 1 and 2. You're right. So, 1 and 2, best movies ever made. I don't know if there's better movies in the world than those two

movies. Maybe there's great movies that are as great in their way, but there's nothing better than those movies. And then Godfather 3 is just like, let's take a shit on our legacy. He resisted it for years and years. They just kept pushing him and pushing him. He didn't resist long enough.

No. Agreed. Boys, can I... I hate to do this, but my parents are in town and they're very, very old. And if I don't go home for dinner, I may not see them again. Okay, let's plug.

Can I come back another time? Absolutely. It was my fault because I was late with the traffic, but I love you guys so much. I could sit with you all night. My parents. We have never had a brush off like that in all the shows we've done. It was very loving and polite. I'm sorry my parents are in town.

I'm supposed to have dinner with them. I know. I told them I'd be home by seven. I'm already going to be late. Let's plug the new show. Plus, it's very late for you guys. Don't your families care about you? It's very late.

We're sorry we didn't catch you when you were in town. So let's plug the new show. But I'll be back. Can I come back and finish? Absolutely. Is it okay? Of course.

We barely got into it. I'd understand if you'd never want to see me again. No, we love you. That happens. Before you run out the door, let's plug the new show. You don't have to. We want to. Okay.

It's called Somebody Feed Phil. It's on Netflix. I saw the first episode. I told you it's great. The one in Bangkok. Gilbert likes that word. I want you to know Gilbert is not a foodie, Phil. It's okay.

It's really not about food if you think about it. If you really watch the show. I'm going to make him watch it. He's going to like it. I hope he watches it. He's going to dig it. Definitely the Israel episode. Wait until you see the Jews I've gathered for that.

Let this man go to dinner. So, okay. I love you guys. Gilbert, I've loved you for so long. It's an absolute pleasure. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Well, this has been Gilbert and Frank's.

No, not that one. Fuck me. No, hi. I'm Gilbert Gottfried. Frank's no fuck me no hi I'm Gilbert Godfrey I'm Gilbert Godfrey and this has been

Gilbert Godfrey's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre and

we're talking to nice Jewish boy Phil Rosenthal, who is blowing us off because his parents are in town. Wait a minute. He did eight minutes. Thank you, Phil.

Thanks, Phil. Thanks to Mark Malkoff, too, for helping. He's a sweetie. Love him to death. We love him. We love him. Absolutely. All right, Phil. I really do want to see you soon. Well, do it again. Love's a sweetie. Love him to death. We love him. Absolutely. All right. Phil,

I really do want to see you soon. We'll do it again. Love to your parents. Thank you, boys. Thank you. Bye, buddy. Bye. Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast is produced by Dara Gottfried and Frank Santapadre with audio production by Frank Verderosa. Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley-Seals. Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to Paul Rayburn, John Murray, John Podiatis, and Nutmeg Creative.

Especially Sam Giovonco and Daniel Farrell for their assistance.