Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 198. George Shapiro

Episode Date: March 12, 2018

Legendary talent manager and Emmy-winning producer George Shapiro joins Gilbert and Frank to reminisce about the glory days of the Borscht Belt and the golden age of variety television and to discuss his personal and professional relationships with Steve Allen, Jimmy Durante, Carl Reiner and Jerry Seinfeld. Also, Elvis praises Andy Kaufman, Richard Belzer inspires Tony Clifton, "Dem Bums" visit "The Martha Raye Show" and George explains his lifelong love affair with comedy (and comedians). PLUS: Marty Feldman! Buddy Holly and the Crickets! Nichols and May bring down the house! Richard Pryor plays God! And Danny DeVito plays...George Shapiro? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. Hi, this is eddie deason you are listening to gilbert godfrey's amazing colossal podcast Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my unidentified male companion, Frank Santopadre. No longer unidentified And we're once again recording at Nutmeg With our engineer Frank Verderosa

Our guest this week is a multiple Emmy and Golden Globe winning producer And one of the most successful talent managers in the history of popular entertainment. Among the performers he's repped or worked with at various points in his impressive career are the Smothers Brothers, Steve Allen, Jim Neighbors, Bill Dana, Gabe Kaplan, and Marty Feldman, as well as former podcast guests Robert Wall, Bill Persky, and Carl Reiner. As television agents, he and his longtime friend and partner, Howard West, packaged hit programs such as the Smothers Brothers Comedy Hour, That Girl, Gomer Pyle, the Glen Campbell Good Time Hour, and the Bobby Darin Show, and primetime specials for Dick Van Dyke, Mary Tyler Moore, and Carol Channing, as well as Paul Reiner and Mel Brooks' animated classic,

The 2,000-Year-Old Man. Years later, they would play a role in both the development and ongoing success of one of the most popular and influential situation comedies of all time, Seinfeld. In 1976, Paul Reiner persuaded George to check out a wildly original young comedian named Andy Kaufman, whom he would go on to manage and befriend for the next decade. Executive producing Andy Kaufman at Carnegie Hall, as well as Andy's Funhouse, he's also the executive producer of the Kaufman biopic Man on the Moon, starring Jim Carrey and written by former podcast guests Scott Alexander and Larry Karaszewski. His 2017 documentary is called If You're Not in the Obit, Eat Breakfast, a loving look at celebrities

and non-celebrities who are still going strong at the age of 90 and older, including Betty White, Kirk Douglas, and former podcast guests Dick Van Dyke and Norman Lear. Please welcome to the show the pride of PS80 in the Bronx, and a man who once escorted Elvis Presley to an appearance on The Ed Sullivan Show, the legendary George Shapiro. Wow. I really enjoyed that, Gobe. Could you read it again? And more slowly this time.

Now, before anything else, in the movie Man on the Moon, there's a part of course where they're showing him working on a tv show taxi and they got the original cast of taxi as themselves of course and now i whenever Whenever I watch that movie, I always think, is anyone making this movie aware of the fact that Danny DeVito, who plays you in the movie, was also on Taxi? It's a little surreal. That's all right. But you see, we didn't use him in a taxi scene. We didn't want to confuse people.

we didn't use him in a taxi scene. We didn't want to confuse people. You know, the whole cast was there for the taxi shoot, you know, with Jim Carrey playing Andy Kaufman, but not Danny DeVito. And, oh, you know, Danny DeVito, when he called me, you know, I'm a short person. I'm 5'5". And so Danny DeVito, I'm a head taller than Danny DeVito.

And first of all, when Danny DeVito called me, he said, we want to do this movie. We have Milos. I know you're talking about doing a picture about Andy. He said, and I'll play you. And I said, well, I was thinking of Brad Pitt. But was that mean? Was that wrong?

Anyway, but now because of Danny DeVito playing me, when people see me now, they say for the first time in my life, I didn't know you were so tall. I love it. Well, you're in the movie too. You have a small part. I play the part of Mr. Best of Midnight Club owner who fires Andy early in his career.

Right. Because he sort of has a bombing routine. You know, I mean, some of his material, it just doesn't work. And so I say you have to be funny. It's not a good sign when people walk out in the middle of your act. And Pop Goes the Weasel doesn't work sometimes in a comedy club. But, you know, speaking of fearless comedians, could I could I take a little segue? Go right ahead. Sure. Because, you know, Gilbert is in a very small group of of comedians who seem to be fearless on stage. There's very few to sure. Because, you know, Gilbert is in a very small group of comedians

who seem to be fearless on stage. There's very few to know. Now, Andy was one of them. Sarah Silverman is another one. And Gilbert, I got this from watching the documentary, that you would go on stage and you sort of, if the audience left, it wouldn't bother you. I mean, and it was the same thing with Andy Kaufman.

Because I had to negotiate with Andy because he had a thing called the bombing routine where he'd do these bad jokes and people would leave. So Andy, I said, as his manager, I said, you really have to cut down on the bombing routine. You know, like four minutes is too long. The whole audience will go. So I said, why don't you try maybe 58 seconds? And he said, well, maybe three minutes. I said, well, maybe a minute and two seconds. We got it down to a minute and 28 seconds.

But that's why I, you know, anyone, you know, I love comedians because, you know, starting off, they're so fearless. You know, and Gilbert is one of those. He is. He's one of the fearless comics. There you go. You got a guest paying you a compliment five minutes into the show. See, so now I have no reason to talk to you any further.

You were going to work for an hour to seek the compliment. Yeah. I don't want to talk about other comics now. I'm sorry. That was a segue. Yes. Danny DeVito played me, and I said I agreed to it. I had to agree to it, of course, even though we didn't even go after Brad Pitt.

So it was Danny all the way. So you wanted to avoid confusion, but it confuses the shit out of me whenever I watch that. I always go, well, where's Danny DeVito? Right. Louis De Palma. That's right. Louis De Palma was a very prominent member of Taxi, but that's very astute of you. You're the first person that mentioned that.

I'm sure he is. Well, the casting is a little confusing, too. We had Ed Weinberger here, George, and he said that Milos Forman made him audition to play himself. You know who played him was Peter Bonners. Peter Bonners, yeah. And he's one of my clients. I just had lunch with him yesterday to play himself. You see, you know who played him was Peter Bonners. Peter Bonners, yeah. And he's one of my clients. I just had lunch with him yesterday. Funny guy.

Yeah, he was Jerry the Dentist in Newhart. Yes. And he's still doing acting and having a good time. He looks great. And a lot of directing he did in his career. Well, yeah, he directed a lot of Murphy Browns and Home Improvement. Yeah, Peter Bonner's funny guy. He,

he directed me and some really, yeah, I don't know if it was, um, I think maybe wings or he did some wings. Yeah. It might've been wings then. Yeah.

Before we jump around and we always do this, we put something in the intro. We usually put a goodie in the intro and then we never get back to it. And our, our listeners criticize us for it. So let's at least, since we mentioned the Elvis story and it's such a fun part of your career.

I mean, you were a kid in the mailroom. I was a kid just in the mailroom, just about to graduate in the mailroom and Elvis was doing the first Ed Sullivan show. And so I went down there, you know, I mean, you know, because I was with the William Morris Agency. They didn't have big security in those days. I, you know, because I was with the William Morris Agency. They didn't have big security in those days.

I'm George Shapiro. I'm with the William Morris Agency. I'm here, you know, to be with Elvis. And the one conversation I had with him, I mean, he came up to the office because he was, like, I think, like 22 years old when he signed the William Morris Agency. And he even made him sing in the mailroom. You know what I mean? It was like it's not the mailroom. You know what I mean? It's not the mailroom. It was like a conference room.

But anyhow, he was down there, and I just said, Elvis, the press is ready for you. Because right before the show, he was going to do a quick press conference. So I said, Elvis, the press is ready for you. He said, yes, sir. I'll be right there, sir. I said, sir? You call me sir?

I was brought up in the Bronx. I said, you're the first person in the world to call me sir. In the Bronx, they don't call people in their early 20s sir. And I remember the guy, it's a thing I carry with me because he's the first person in my life that ever called me sir. So it was great. He was so sweet and so gracious. That was before he started eating bad and getting on all those prescription drugs. But he was a sweet, so gracious. You know, that was before he started eating bad and, you know, getting on all those prescription drugs.

But he was a sweet, wonderful man. I just liked hanging out with him for a little bit. And the other part of Elvis is at the William Morris Agency, when you're sort of in the mailroom, you sort of like work as an assistant to different agents. assistant to different agents. And when Colonel Parker came to town from Nashville, he would have an office. They would give him an office, and I always worked with him as an assistant.

And at 11 in the morning, he said, George, how much money did we make so far? So he was, what a character he was also. But anyway, that was it. Another tie-in with Elvis is that I knew some of the guys in his band, and he always said that Andy Kaufman was his favorite impersonator. Oh, that's great. He said, because he's funny.

You know, the way he lifts his lip, he's funny. That was really great. I never thought to even ask what Elvis thought of Andy Kaufman's impression of him. But, yeah, he was still around. Not long. He said it was his favorite. Yeah. Andy was his favorite. Wow.

Because he passed, what, in 77, and Andy didn't kind of hit the scene until about 76. Yeah, well, I think he did the Tonight Show, which he did. I mean, that Saturday Night Live he did in 75. 75, that's right, that's right. My grandma Minnie loved Elvis so much, and she used to watch him on television, and she was so pissed off that they would shoot him from the waist up. She said, what the hell's the matter with these people? He's moving to the music.

What's the matter with those square people? And she was 76, 77 years old. She was hip. Your grandmother was hip. I love my grandma Minnie. She took me to rock and roll shows sometimes, and she just loved rock and roll the minute it came in, even though she was in the 70s.

I saw Buddy Holly and the Crickets because of her. That's great. Wow. In the Bronx, there was this theater called the Paradise Theater, and so one night instead of – it's a movie theater, but they had a big rock show in there, and Jerry Lou Lewis was there, and Danny and the Juniors, and Dickie doing the don'ts. Danny at the Hop.

You know Danny and the Juniors? Sure. That was their big hit. Dickie doing the don'ts. Dickie doing the don'ts. But if not for my Grandma Minnie, I never would have seen Buddy Holly. Wow. That's cool.

He died a few months later in that air crash. He was only 22 years old. So I'm connected to Grandma Minnie. Grandma Minnie did you solid. Tell Gilbert this is interesting too is that, well, you know, we talked about how you were born in the Bronx. You went to NYU. You wound up in the mailroom at the William Morris Agency.

It's interesting too how you met Howard and the Pconos and the people that you were no i met howard you met howard when you were kids when we were eight we were eight years old he was a new kid that came to ps80 and he was all alone sitting on a stoop so i said come on play we after school we play stickball and basketball and touch football so come and join us because i felt sorry for him he's sitting there all alone he just moved in from another neighborhood. Then we became friends like in partners. We started our partnership with comic books. That's right.

Chipping in five cents each because they all cost ten cents at the time. Then we worked at Tamiment. That's what I was getting to, the Tamiment. We worked at Tamiment as lifeguards when we were both in college. I was about 19, 20, 21. I worked there for three years. And that's what really connected me to the show business because they had a theater staff. It was created by like three, four years before by Max Liebman.

How about that, Gil? And he wasn't, that was before my time there. But then he created your show of shows with the same format. The head writers were Danny Simon and Neil Simon, Doc Simon and Danny Simon. And the Poconos. Had a review in the Poconos. Isn't that great?

Wow. Right. And Dick Shawn worked up there as a comedian. Herb Ross was a choreographer. Herbert Ross. Wow. Who became a major director doing Turning Point and a lot of great movies. Goodbye, girl.

So that was my connection. Oh, and then agents used to come up. And I used to give them boats, rowboats and canoes as lifeguards. We did that at the waterfront. And then they would have dinner with these beautiful singers and dancers. And I said, this is your job? You come up here and you're agents? I have to look into that.

I had to go to the Army first. But after that, I applied for a job at the William Morris Agency. And that was enough. The whole connection was through Tamiment in the Pocono Mountains. Yeah, you knew it was for you right away. Well, I like show business. Yeah, you were a fan of comedy.

I love comedy. I wanted to ask you before we get... What was your opinion of the colonel? Well, you know, he was like an overly aggressive businessman. I don't know how Elvis did it. So I didn't feel so connected to the colonel. My hero was Jack Rollins as a manager.

Yes. You know, he and, you know, Nichols and May and Woody Allen and, you know,

so the Colonel, I didn't connect with him. You know, also he was like a guy from down south, overly aggressive, charged 50% commission. So I didn't connect with him

like I did with some of the other managers when I was in the mailroom and used to deliver mail. But Rollins, Jaffe, they were my heroes. That's who I looked up to. They were part of the reason I was motivated to leave the agency business and go into management and production. I found it interesting, too, that you got to see a lot of that comedy. You mentioned Nichols and production. Found it interesting too, that you got to see a lot of that comedy. You tell, you mentioned Nichols and May.

I, I, I saw Nichols and, you saw Nichols and May and Phyllis Diller and. I saw all of them. They worked, they worked at a place where Lenny Bruce worked. I'll never forget it.

Cause I was in a mail room, you know, and, uh, uh, and I, Lenny Bruce worked at a place called the den in the Dwayne hotel down in the village.

It's probably not there anymore. Did you ever hear of that place? No. The den in the Dwayne. It was the den, the den in the Dwayne. The den in the Dwayne Hotel down in the village. It's probably not there anymore. Did you ever hear of that place? No. The Dane and the Dwayne. It was the den. The den and the Dwayne. The den and the Dwayne. Yeah, it was like a little room,

a comedy room, maybe 120, 130 seats. And that's where I saw Nichols and May who just blew me away and Lenny Bruce I loved from the beginning. He was so funny. And then they handled people that I so admired, Woody Allen, when he was starting out. Didn't you see Streisand, too, when she was very young?

I saw her when she was 19 at the Bon Soir. How about that? Wow. All of my very early years at the William Morris Agency, either in the mailroom or just getting out, being an assistant to an agent. Either they're in the mailroom or just getting out, being an assistant to an agent. How did you decide that when you and Howard went in there together? You were both in the— Well, I got the job first, and then I recommended Howard. I got the lifeguard job first, then I recommended Howard.

He got the job, then I got a job at William Morris, and I recommended him, and he got a job in Then I got a job at William Morris and I recommended him and he went, he got a job in the mailroom there also. Right. Weren't you considered a bad luck charm for a short time because people were getting fired, the people that you worked for at the agency? Well, the way it worked then to the training program is you were in the mailroom and they call them floating assistants. You float around. And then I got, finally got a job in the legit department, Lee Karsian. Yes, and I was his assistant.

So I graduated from the mailroom as an assistant, which is all part of the training program to be an agent. And then he got fired. And then I worked next for someone in the television department, Elliot Kozak. And then, you know, after a few months, he got fired. So I was walking around with a sort of a black cloud over my head. Stay away from Shapiro. But then I connected with a guy named Ben Griefer who was in the packaging, television packaging department.

And he took a chance with me and we hit it off great. And I learned everything about producing from him because at an agency, when you put a package together you know you're dealing with making deals for the there was mostly variety shows that was when show business was exploding with all these great variety shows you know starting with milton burrell and and red buttons and the smothers brothers and carol burnett and danny k what year what years are we talking about now uh but we're talking about the like between 58 and 65 okay okay 70 the smothers and carol burnett both went on at 67 sure variety was king and i worked i worked with the smothers

brothers in fact that was the first at that show it was the first music video that was ever put on television it was the beatles doing hey jude they sent us the film that they filmed at the studio. Wow. In fact, I had the good fortune of spending some time with a couple of those guys. And it was an amazing thing because we played it in the rehearsal hall. And everyone is swaying to Hey Jude. Which guys did you get to spend some time with? Yes. The Beatles themselves?

Yeah, well, guess which two? I'm going to, go ahead Gil I'm going to say if it's a guess It wasn't John Lennon Yeah, see I'm going to say if it's a guess, then I'm going to say it's George and Ringo It was Paul and George.

Pretty cool. See, now, I did not find that in my notes researching you, George. Well, maybe Paul McCartney, he got this Gershwin Award, and Jerry Seinfeld did a comedy bit with all musical numbers. Everyone else was singers, so he was the only comic. Go a bit. Imagine playing in front of the president and the first lady, Michelle Obama,

and he's so funny. So anyhow, I met, that's when I met Paul, and I told him about the video of Hey Jude, and he was really touched by it, and he gave me a hug. This is one of the chapters in the book I'm not going to write. Oh, yes,

the book you're not going to write. That's yes, the book you're not going to write. That's right. I was going to ask you about that. That chapter is Paul McCartney hugged me because he gave me a hug, and that was very, very touching. And he's a great guy. He's very friendly with Jerry Seinfeld also. Paul McCartney and the Beatles.

I mean, and Elvis. Yeah, and I met George. Quite a journey. I met George, you know, at CBS. He was doing a show there. Mm-hmm. And Woody Allen used to go there all the time. You know, the most neighbor, Gilbert, who do you think of all the people you know,

you know, like all the comics, who do you think is the most nervous that you've ever met that went on stage? Okay. Like right before they go on stage. Okay. See, once again, if it's having the guess, I'm going to say that Woody Allen would be too easy. Oh, my God.

He's right. You got it. Yeah. You're amazing. Amazing. Who would have guessed that? You know, because he hasn't done stand-up for a long time. So I was at William Morris.

I used to book him sometimes. And this, I think it was at the Greek Theater. And I never saw anything like it. He was like shaking like a leaf. And so nervous. And then he goes on stage and he's hilarious. And, you know, he runs across the stage. He doesn't walk.

He goes from one end of the stage to the other because of his nerves. But he's so funny. He just, every time I've seen him do stand-up, he runs across the stage, doesn't walk. He goes from one end of the stage to the other because of his nerves. But he's so funny. He just, every time I've seen him do stand-up, he scored. But that's so amazing. Are you nervous before you go on? I get, I seem to get nervous the more and more experienced I get. Really? Wow. It should be the other way around.

I get depressed, nervous. I always dream, my dream before I go on stage is that the manager will come back and say, we had a fire or a flood in the club. Here's your check. Go home. Oh, my God. I'm so sorry. That's painful.

Now, getting back to Rollins and Jaffe, the legendary managers, who, you know, Woody Allen and Robin Williams. And Nichols and May. Yeah, Billy Crystal. Charlie Jaffe used to say, managers don't make comedians, comedians make managers. So what is...

Yes, it's... What? What's the question? No, so what is your opinion about that? I think it's a marriage. I think it's an absolute love affair. You know, like you have with Dara. Two pieces of a puzzle that fit together.

That was in your documentary, and it just touched me so much when Dara said that. Like you two, two pieces in a puzzle that fit each other. Isn't that sweet? And I think that's, I've often said this about comedians, and in answer to your question, I think it's absolutely mutual. And my feeling is, I'm always romantic. I used to fall in love, and that's, now, the closest thing to falling in love,

for me, this is only me personally. Mr., I'm talking to you. So, Jackie Mason. No, I see a comedian. Like, when I first saw Andy and Jerry and another one, I don't know if you're familiar with Dennis Wolfberg. Oh, yes. Of course. Because he unfortunately died early from cancer also, like Andy.

Yes, of course. Because he unfortunately died early from cancer also, like Andy. But I saw him at Montreal at Just Pour Rias, Just for Laughs. Oh, yeah. And you see a comedian and they make you laugh. It's such an incredible feeling. That's why I worship comedians so much because I like to call them doctors because with recent medical research, it's obvious that endorphins are released and it strengthens your immune system. So comedy is so rich and so important.

So my feeling personally, mister, is that it's the closest thing to falling in love. When you see a comedian for the first time and he makes you laugh that much, it's like falling in love with a beautiful lady. How about that, Gil? I mean, the passion is very strong for me. I don't know if it's for other people, but... Wow.

The main thing is it is definitely mutual between a manager and a comedian. I was going to ask you about that before because you gravitated. Originally, you were working with dramatic actors, you said, but they were a little bit depressed for you. The reason why, there's a reason for that. I didn't

ask for that. They threw me into that pit. Oh, I see. How did you... Go ahead. I was working. The reason I came, I started a rumor when I was in New York working at the William Morris Agency that I was being transferred to the coast because all the production started coming out there. All the film production started coming from California and leaving New York. You know, they had variety shows in New York, and then they were over with, like, Milton Berle and Red Buttons.

And so I started that rumor. And at first they were sending me there. But then, hey, there's no job for you there. But then they sold a one-hour weekly variety show for Steve Allen. And since I had experience in TV packaging, they gave me the job to be the assistant to – I mean, actually I was the packaging agent that worked on that show. And the show just lasted one season.

And it was canceled. And then I have an office, so they said, well, you'll handle MGM and 20th Century Fox and the dramatic people, actors and writers. And then when they came to my office, when a dramatic actor is depressed, they're really depressed.

Can you name any names? Yeah, but, but if a comic, and I probably, Gilbert is a prime example. If he's depressed, and Richard Lewis,

you know, these guys get depressed a lot from what I hear from, you know, just based on what you just told me. And they are the funniest people in the world when they're depressed.

And, and the dramatic people, you just, your heart gets sick. And it's, your heart gets sick. What a different experience. So you know what I mean? If you have a client who's a comedy writer or a comedian,

you know you're going to laugh when they come in to see you to talk about how depressed they are. Because they're going to be funny. Truth. I think Gilbert will appreciate this too, George, which I saw in the research. Was there a mob connection at William Morris? George Wood, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they used to come in all the time.

Costello and all those people. Frank Costello. Frank Costello. How about that? You know, you had that. And so a lot of part of the mailroom, you're learning my whole mailroom experience. Before you get graduated into being an assistant, you would also work as a receptionist. When the receptionist went to lunch, you know, when they went to lunch, you would sit at the reception desk.

And the instructions we got is if anyone asked for George Woods, don't ask their name. Just say first office on the right and just gesture to the first office on the right. What was happening? Well, you know, they owned a lot of clubs. George was very big in that personal appearance department all over Chicago,

New York, Vegas, you know, so that was a pretty big connection in those days. But I used to always see those bulges

in the inside pocket of the thing. Wow. I was very polite. George Woods, right this way. First, Ruffus on the right.

Well, you know, that's something that comes up with the older comics that we've had on the show, George. And Gilbert likes to ask that question. Always ask about how the mob treated the talent. They love them. They always seem like they would much rather deal

with mobsters than regular club owners. That is the truth in the history of Las Vegas. I mean, any, any, you probably, I'm sure you, Frank, has done a lot of research on this. And almost everyone agrees with what Gilbert just said, that they loved working there when the mob was running it. It was smooth. It was well done. It was well organized.

It was fun. It was smooth. It was well done. It was well organized. It was fun. It was fun. A lot of times when these big corporations get involved, there's not a lot of fun in big corporations. There was a great transformation in the energy and the positive fun energy that was there at one time that doesn't exist anymore. That was very insightful. But I'm sure you were well aware of that, Frank, doing all your research. Well, yeah, it's also come up, as I said on this show, we've had Will Jordan here and Pat Cooper, and we've had some older comics who had experiences with those people.

And Martin and Lewis would say in interviews, quotes from them, they loved working with the mob. Never had a problem with them. They shot straight. It was total party time for those guys at the Sands Hotel. Party hacket, loved the mobsters. Tell us about Steve Allen since you brought him up. What kind of guy was he? He was interestingly astute.

He was like you. He did a very bright, he did a lot of research and he also was a worshipper of comedy. When I worked on his show, he brought on the Smothers Brothers for the first time and also a few other people that hadn't done

much before. So he absolutely loved comedians, and I liked him a lot. But the only thing is he used to dictate into a tape recorder, telling me what to do all the time. So I always listened to his instructions. But it was just Tim Conway he brought in for the first time on his show. So he just worshipped comedians. Yeah, he had a reputation for discovering talent.

That's where I got connected with the Smothers Brothers because it was their first guest appearance, and Tim Conway too. And Bill Dana? Yeah, well, Bill Dana, that goes all the way back to before my time at the William R. Bill Dana was Jose Jimenez on the original Steve Allen show. Right. My name, Jose Jimenez. Did you work with Bill?

We tried to get him on this show, and unfortunately, he passed. Yeah, he agreed to do it. And then just like a couple of days later. Oh, yeah, we had great affection for him. That's a shame. You know, a very similar situation happened with Joan Rivers and Jerry Seinfeld on Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee.

She was booked on the show. And I was in an event. It was Bill Persky's daughter's wedding. Liza, yeah. Yeah. And Joan Rivers was there. You know, I spent some time with her because I go back with her from the time she started out.

She was a workaholic with writing all the time. She never stopped writing. So I always admired her. There's so few female comedians at that time. Except one thing I got mad at her about because she insulted Elizabeth Taylor too much about her weight. So I was able to at least express that to her. That was earlier on. I said, I used to like you, but you shouldn't insult Elizabeth Taylor because I fell in

love with her when we were both 12 years old when she did National Velcro. You set her straight, George. And then she did, you know, a cat on a hot tin roof, and then I totally fell in love. Oh, yes. Because we were both 24 at the time. So she was so beautiful. But Joan Rivers' Liz Taylor jokes used to crack me up. Yeah, because you were mean-spirited.

I'm compassionate. He is. He is. I think you'll appreciate this, too. You booked Jimmy Durante when you were a young agent. Wow. Oh, yeah. It was on a Jerry Lewis show in Las Vegas.

I have an incredible picture. I'll send it to you. An incredible picture of me and Jimmy Durante in his dressing room. And I have the contract. I made the contract because I signed it on his behalf. $7,500 plus $2,500 for expenses. And it was on a Jerry Lewis show

out in Las Vegas. And I went to his dressing room. I'm telling you, I never saw a stream of beautiful girls that visited him. Jimmy Durante? Wow. Yes, yes. Yeah, and they all said it was really like because he was one of those.

Did you ever meet him? No. No. That was before your time. But he has a reputation as being like one of the sweetest people in show business. The opposite of a couple of other comics that I know. So it was just fun hanging out with him. And also, since I was a little boy, he was a star.

And I loved the way he sang. He was precious to me. and I loved the way he sang. In-ka-ding-ka-ding, ka-ding-ka-ding, ka-ding-ka-do. He was precious to me, so that was one of my great experiences, too. That's great. In this great entertainment business. While I nudge Gilbert awake, listen to these words from our sponsor. Are you speaking? Shh. If they hear you, they want you.

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Gil and Frank went out to pee. Now they're back so they can be on their amazing Colossal Podcast. Kids, time to get back to Gilbert and Frank's amazing Colossal Podcast. So let's go. It was so funny with Jimmy Durante. There was a million singers who could sing better than Jimmy Durante. And yet it was such a joy to hear him sing.

Yeah, absolutely. And he's always used to say, those are the conditions that prevail. No matter what it is. That was like his favorite expression. Gilbert's told this on the show, but it's worth repeating. Tell him that great Jimmy Durante story because George will appreciate it. I heard toward the end of his life life he became a total recluse and he you know he wasn't seen in

public he stopped talking to people on the phone and a friend of mine said he he uh wanted to seek out Jimmy Durante and he found out where he lived and he went to his front door and knocked on the door and from inside the door he hears Who is it? And my friend goes Oh, I'm here

I want to talk to Jimmy Durante and he hears, he ain't home. Perfect. That's a very good impression. He does some great impressions. What about Groucho? You met Groucho, too, in your travels. Oh, my God.

I just met Groucho because Carl Reiner was very close to him. And I remember I was with him when their daughters graduated Beverly Hills High School together. So I just spent some time with him. I didn't know him that well, you know, like Jimmy. Yeah, yeah. But he was very nice. I liked him.

He had a very nice, warm kind of persona. He was very nice. I liked him. He had a very nice, warm kind of persona. He was wonderful. Tell us, too, your experience of one of your favorites and ours, George Carlin. You got him his first acting gig. Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, this is what you call what I was saying earlier. I mean, before I met him, you know, I, you know, I, I used to watch him and doing the hippie div, hippie dippy weatherman. And I mean, he was just very funny. I just loved

him. And then when I, I was, I was the packaging agent on Marlo Thomas's show, that girl. And I was out in California then. And George was in New York and, uh and there was a role for the agent of Marlo Thomas. So I said, you have to read for Persky, and it was Persky and Denhoff. Yeah, Sam and Bill. Yeah, and so we flew out, and I flew him out, and he read for it, and he got the role, and I just felt so great,

because that was his first speaking role as an actor. And also, then I met you know when I ran into him from time to time after that and I ran into him we talked about that that that was his first role and he said I didn't I I he said I didn't think I was very good and uh uh you know Gilbert's face went away so I I miss him which is a thing that you know how these little things go up on a TV screen? Oh, you missed us? With writing on it. Oh, now. We're back.

It was blocking Gilbert's face, and I missed him. We have a new engineer. What's your name? I'm Cody. Cody. Right, like Cody Ballinger? Sure. Wow.

Wow, you're an L.A. Dodger fan. That's a Dodger first base. Yeah. You gave yourself away there. But the funny thing is I was a Brooklyn Dodger fan. This is an incredible story. Fifteen guys from the Bronx. Closest friends. Two of us were Dodger fans. Howard West and me. because we liked the underdogs at that time. The Yankees were so dominant. Sure. So we loved the Dodgers. And then when Jackie Robinson came along, forget about it. We were so in love with him. And Pee Wee Reese, maybe because I like short people.

Pee Wee Reese, he was my favorite. I loved Pee Wee Reese and Duke Snyder. The Duke of Flatbush. Carl Farillo. Yeah, all of those guys when I was a kid, they were playing with them. And listen to this. You know, when you're in the mailroom, you have to pay. They call it trips.

You have to go on trips. You have to deliver mail. You have to deliver film. You have to pick things up. So Martha Ray had a show in New York, and I had to pick up two Dodgers for a guest appearance on the Martha Ray show. The Dodgers were Pee Wee Reese and Duke Snyder. Wow.

So I had to go to Ebbets Field. I got there a little early, maybe the second inning instead of the eighth. But I got there. I saw the game. I met Don Newcomb and all the guys, Dixie Walker. So I had to take him to the Martha Ray show in the Lincoln Continental. I was sitting between the two of them.

I mean, it's the greatest thrill of my life, right, for my heroes. And then they were funny and said, George, pull over, let's get some beer. I said, beer, but you guys are my heroes. And then Duke Snyder, he was hilarious. He's so funny. They were starting to do endorsements.

So Duke said, I would endorse a bag of shit if they paid me enough money. That sounds like somebody I know. Did I see you, Walker? That's how I was laughing when he said it. But that was an amazing. What a great story. It all triggers all these different stories I hadn't thought about. The people's churse, they used to call Dixie Walker, right?

Yeah. Yeah. The people's churse. The people's churse. Good stuff, George. Good stuff. Did you ever go to baseball games when you were a kid, Gilbert? No.

You didn't care about the Dodgers? No. Oh, Ebbets Field had to be gone by that time. Yeah, the funny thing is. Oh, that's right. To this day, Ebbets Field, because I live not far from there. Yeah. Ebbets Field meant like this shitty project.

Oh, that's right. Yeah, because you were three years old when the Dodgers, I think you were born in 1955, I think. Yeah. The Dodgers came out to L.A. in 58. 58. I remember when I first heard it was a baseball field, I thought, what? That's like some shitty area. It reminds me of that sad Sinatra song about where there used to be a ballpark.

Would you sing it for us, please? I'd rather not. George, we jump around a lot, and you've got a million memories. Tell us about Marty Feldman. Oh, well, Marty, he was, Howard West was more involved with Marty than me. But, you know, we just loved him. He was so unique, and he did all those movies with Mel Brooks and especially Young Frankenstein.

It's funny, when Gene Wilder died, we loved Marty Feldman. He was just incredible, but he smoked too much. He had a necklace that was a cigarette lighter, so he was never without a cigarette. He would all day long. As soon as it went out, he'd light up. We'd heard that about him. Yeah, shortened his life.

I mean, that kind of destroyed his heart. He died when he was 48 years old. Wow. And he had a heart attack. And, you know, it was so sad. But that, so, oh, Mel Brooks just showed the movie because when he had a tribute to Gene Wilder, and we saw that picture again, the original Young Frankenstein.

He screened it at 20th Century Fox. And when we're all in the theater, the theater was packed, and they had a video screen. I mean, it was a theater screen with him walking around showing us all the places they shot, you know, the monster. And he walked around 20th Century Fox. And then he makes an entrance into the theater, and everyone just gave him a standing ovation. It was a great, great memorial for Gene.

Oh, that's nice. You also produced a movie with Feldman and Peter Boylan, God We Trust. Yes. You and Howard. Yeah, Howard primarily. I give Howard credit because he was the one that motivated that movie. Andy Kaufman was in that. He played God. That's right. And Richard Pryor. Richard Pryor played God. Yes, that's right. Richard Pryor played God. That's that's right. Richard Played God.

That's when I met him. I spent time in the trailer with him. It was after he did this event where, you know, he lost it. You know, this was like for gay rights event, and it was at, I think, the Hollywood Bowl. And then he started insulting gay people, and, you know, he just lost it because I think he was molested when he I think he talked about this when he was young. Wow. And he just lost it. And he insulted, you know, use the word faggot and stuff like that. And and then when I was with him, he just felt very bad.

He said he just regretted it. He just he said it's something that organically came out. You know, he got a terrific something that organically came out. You know, he got a terrific, you know, negative response, but,

but he had a, he had a good heart. There was one thing, Richie Pryor, I mean, because I met him when he was very young, also, but,

you know, and later, and then later on, but he, he has, his comedy, see, his comedy came from a place where he was brought up in a whorehouse.

Yeah, Peoria, yeah. Yeah, and his mother was a prostitute and everything. Jerry does one thing. Jerry has this new special called Jerry Before Seinfeld. And in it, he tips his hat to Richard Pryor about how funny Richard Pryor is. He said, look at the material. Look at the atmosphere. Look at the atmosphere. Look at the environment he was brought up in.

You know, a whorehouse. His mother's a prostitute, all the stuff. So he has to be funny if he has a sense of humor. And then Jerry's standing in front of a Massapequa house, his little quaint house in Massapequa. And he said, this is all I had to work with. It was, that's another, you know, you should see that if you haven't seen it, Jerry Before Seinfeld on Netflix. We'll watch it.

He does all of his originals. He punches it up, all of his original, his first joke. By the way, you know, he worked at the comic strip. That was the first time he was on stage. Gilbert, you were like 15, I heard, when you went on stage. Is that right? Yeah. And the funny part about it is I seem to have a blur of what club it was.

It wasn't any of those main clubs. Was it Catch a Rising Star? No, no, no. Did you go with Arlene? I went with my sister Arlene. She had found out, a friend of hers told her, there's a place

you could just sign your name on a list. Yeah, something all like that. Yeah, and but yeah, I was in Manhattan and yeah, I was 15 years old. Was it downtown? was it the village gate?

or one of those? I get it confused because for a while I thought it was the bitter end or the other end and then my sister said no it wasn't that place I should know the first place I worked at

I know but did you work continue when you were 15, 16, 17 years old? Did you still do stand-up? Yeah, I would keep doing it. I mean, it was years before I made a dime out of it. But I still would get, you know, have shitty jobs during the day, like just regular jobs. Right. Yeah, well, Jerry had the same thing. He used to sell jewelry on the streets and he sold light bulbs.

He says, yeah, I was on the phone selling light bulbs like there's people waiting in the dark for me to call them. He says, yeah, I was on the phone selling light bulbs like there's people waiting in the dark for me to call them. So he had a lot of jobs because when he started, they weren't getting paid. You know, at the comic strip and when he started Catch a Rising Star, you know, they did the same thing you did. I mean, Jerry signed in and, you know, had open mic and then finally. But the comics started getting bookings out of town like in New Jersey or Connecticut at some of the comedy clubs but it was a showcase with no

pay at the beginning. They were fighting to get $5 or $10 to do a set. Was there a turning point Gilbert? I never asked you that. Were you just, were you realized now I'm getting paid now this actually could be a living? Did you have a moment of recognition? There was one time of old places, it was a coffee house in a church.

And they would have this like a night and someone had told me, they said, you could just book yourself there. And they didn't pay any attention. I was known. And I call them up and they booked me. And I got $7. And I thought, forget it. This is it. This is the big time.

And then a few months later, they booked me again. I got $5. Yes. You weren't going in the right direction. No. That's something. But, you know, that's why this is, I mean, this is why I admire comedians so much. Jerry told me a story.

He opened for Vic Damone in Atlantic City. And he was there for two weeks. And he said, this is when I was representing him as his manager. And he came to my office. He said, I was there for two weeks. I didn't get one laugh. Not one laugh in two weeks. And to make it worse, his mother and father, you know, came to that show.

Oh, no. Yeah. And then he came back to the office. And then he was booked at the Improv in Tempe, no. Yeah. And then he came back to the office and then he had he was booked at the Improv in Tempe, Arizona, and he killed he had an incredible show. And that's, you know, that's that's the life of a comedian. He could do, you know, because they get the people going to Atlantic City at that time and come in a bus and want to see Victor Moen. They they just talked, you know, through Jerry's act. But that's what he, and he was,

he said, it's interesting. Also, when he used to audition, a couple of times he auditioned for a television show. If he didn't get it,

he's out on the road. He said he felt bad for these actors. If they didn't get it, they had nothing to do. They were depressed and that's why I like the comedians.

Yeah, remember him on Benson. Of course, you guys have another job, Gilbert. Yeah. You're not totally. Of course, you guys have another job, Gilbert. Yeah. You're not totally dependent on a movie or a television show. That's the beauty of it.

Yeah, like actors can't pay their rent if they don't get the audition. George, talk to about it. I found this interesting, too, and Gilbert will relate to this. You talk about the importance and the value of bombing for a comedian. and the value of bombing for a comedian? Well, I mean, no comedian in existence, that's why I call them my heroes, and they're so courageous.

Because every comedian in the early part of their career, they're going to bomb. I mean, bombing gives you strength because you get through it, and if you do it again, you just overcome it, and it gives you more confidence. The only one that had a really – most people handle it well. I gilded on just getting from the documentary that it seemed to not bother him. No, I think he embraces it. Let me ask you this because you guessed Woody Allen right. Of all

the comedians or people who started out being comedians, who do you think is the most upset if they weren't connecting to the audience? Oh, would it be Woody again? No, it would be Larry David. Oh my God! I

remember Larry and those, you know, like catch and improv. And boy, if he got anything less than an enormous laugh, he would get into a fight with people in the audience. I was there, Charlie. I saw that. I was at the improv and he got disgusted with the audience. They were talking to each other, weren't laughing.

And he must have been on stage maybe for five or six minutes. And he said, you're all a bunch of dumb cunts. And he walked off the stage. Yeah, he used to go on. He was angry before he was introduced. Yeah yeah so he would go up there and i'm so glad that you were aware of it he was so he was ready to fight with the audience no matter what yeah if the joke went well he didn't care you got it you got it. You got it, Gilbert. That's exactly what it was. That's why I said he

couldn't handle it. He could not handle it. He had some success later in life. Right. Yes. Tell George what you said about your observation about Larry David back then, that you thought he would go one of two ways. Yeah, I thought with Larry David watching him back then, it couldn't be any middle ground. He would either be like the biggest success in showbiz or living out on the street.

Boy, that's so accurate. Oh, OK. I have another Larry David story. Boy, that's so accurate. Oh, okay. I have another Larry David story. No, this, I mean, this is exactly, you know, it supports what you said about him. And he also, like, has very strong beliefs in what's right or wrong in comedy or in life.

And we did four episodes of Seinfeld. And they, we picked up, you know, because we were, I had gotten a call from Brandon Tartikoff saying that, you know, this Seinfeld, you know, this series is not being picked up by the comedy department. And then we talked to Rick Ludwin, who was in Variety, and he picked up four half-hour Variety shows. That's how we got started, after we were

rejected by the comedy department. And then, so we were doing those four shows, and then NBC wanted a big note. They said, we think it's very important that Elaine Bennis and Jerry Seinfeld get engaged

and get married. That's where the show should go. And Larry and Jerry were totally against it. He said, look, this is the four friends. It would diminish the rest of them. It would diminish George Costanza and Michael Richards, great character with Kramer. And Larry said, look, if they want to do that, I'm out.

I'm not going to do anymore. And Jerry felt the same way because it just didn't feel right from a comedy perspective and sort of copying other shows. And they were very strong about that. And Larry said this. He said, I only have four shows in me anyway. He couldn't see it going past four. Yeah.

The Seinfeld Chronicles. And they ended up doing 180 shows. Yes. But Larry took exactly what Gilbert was saying. You know, he took that stand. He didn't have another job. Obviously, he wasn't doing that great doing stand-up, but he took that stand. So he was very strong and courageous about his beliefs.

That integrity. And I remember Larry getting into an argument years ago with a guy in the crowd. years ago with a guy in the crowd and the guy in the crowd yelled at Larry and goes, your mother fucks my dog. And, and Larry goes, Oh yeah. Well, I bet your dog doesn't enjoy it. Oh, God, it's funny. Great that you remember that. Tell us again, you know, because we touched on it in the interview, how you met Andy Kaufman. I met Andy Kaufman because Carl Reiner had seen him at Catch a Rising Star.

He was in New York with his wife, my aunt Estelle. And, you know, he's my uncle because he married my aunt when I was 12 years old. Yep. You know, so anyway, and then I became his manager when I worked with Jerry Seinfeld and Andy Kaufman and Carl, which I still work with him. He's 95 years old. He just did four television shows and a couple of movies. Ocean's 80s. Incredible.

Wow. And Toy Story 4. old. He just did four television shows and a couple of movies. Ocean's 80s. Incredible. Wow. And Toy Story 4. And he's on right now, you can see him on Hulu with Sarah Silverman doing a commercial for Meshuggah Namel, the character is called. He has a pitch and putz course.

And he does his commercial. You can see it now. You can just Google it or go on YouTube and you see my uncle Carl playing Meshuggah and Amal. Yeah, we had Carl on the podcast. He was unbelievable. Yeah, and he sang an aria for us, George. Oh, my God.

He sang Pagliacci? That's one of the many he sings. He sang in Italian. He sang some Irish. Yeah, he wanted to be an Irish tenor when he was a kid. That's right. That's what he wanted to be. That was his goal in life.

Yes. It's so great that you know that. Yes. He told us. He was a treasure. He's a treasure. When I answered your question, Carl Ryan had seen him, and I was in L.A., and the day before he flew in and we were having lunch with Dick Van Dyke at the commissary at NBC.

We were just having lunch there. And Carl, who has total audio recall, did Andy Kaufman's whole act. Did everything. The fireman going into the kitchen, giving me the food. I do the President of the United States. Hello, I'm Jimmy Carter. So, Carl, I'm the President of the United States. And Archie Bunker, dinging batty, going into the kitchen, getting me the food.

So Carl did his whole act. And he said, you have to fly to New York right away and see him. And then the biggest coincidence was this was lunch. And then later in that day, 4 or 5 o'clock, I got a call from Bud Friedman, who said he has this kid that works at the improv in New York, and they're going to fly him out and do the improv here. He said, you have to see him. So that's

how I connected with Andy. And I saw him, and he was so bizarre on stage, he made me laugh right away. I mean, he connected totally with everything he did. But my only concern was that he might be crazy because, as I said earlier, it's like a marriage with a manager and a comedian.

So I wanted to make sure he wasn't insane, out of his mind, crazy, you know. So I figured I'd take him to lunch, and I took him to lunch and then dinner. And he was a very warm-hearted guy, and when he flew back to the East Coast, they always visited in Florida his grandma Lily on the way to New York. So then I really liked him as a person. I felt he was bizarre, followed his own drama, but a good-hearted person.

And that has to be part of it. When Howard and I went into business, because I work at a big agency, like the William Morris Agency. You're involved, 250 people. You know, clients that you have to sell. And a lot of them are assholes. So when Howard and I went into business, we shook hands.

I won't tell you the name of the guy we said on the flag. No, ba-ba, in our lives. Like the California flag, that was a Shapiro West flag. We only wanted to handle people that were good-hearted people that were talented. So that was our credo and we stuck with it.

That's admirable. Very lucky. And you always had a taste for the bizarre and the offbeat. So Andy was in your wheelhouse. Yeah, Howard was like the most brilliant businessman. So we complimented each other

because I was really involved with the creative part of it, Howard was the most brilliant businessman. We complimented each other. I was really involved with the creative part of it, working with talent. The business part, I just didn't take too strongly. I just never connected with it like I did with comedy. Howard was absolutely brilliant, what he did. He said, well, if you want to sign him, go ahead. Because he didn't get Andy. Except one time, after Andy was doing great, Andy was a meditator. He was a governor in Transcendental Meditation.

And once he went, he goes away. He used to go with the Maharishi like two months at a time. Then he came back and he told Howard and I that he learned how to levitate. He could levitate, you know. And I'll show you. So Howard went into a conference room with Andy. And Andy sat cross-legged and Howard was opposite him

looking. That's the only time I saw Howard a little gullible. He was waiting to see Andy levitate. That's great. Gilbert, we've talked about this maybe with zamuda but when you saw andy for the first time and you've always you've got a taste for the bizarre and the offbeat you're a surrealist comic too obviously what what what went through your mind when you saw this guy i i remember clearly at the improv andy kaufman starts singing a hundred bottles of beer on the wall. Yes.

And at first the audience laughs going, well, obviously he's not going to sing the entire song. And then it gets to that point where it's like, oh shit, he is going to sing the entire song. And the audience to sing the entire song. And the audience is cursing him out. This is a catch? Walking out. No, at the improv.

Oh, the improv. I'm sorry. Yeah. And the audience hates him. And that was cracking me up. Yeah. And also The Great Gatsby. He used to read the whole.

Yes. Yeah. And also The Great Gatsby. He used to read the whole novel. Yes. He said, now I would like to read The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald. And he started reading the whole novel. And people started to like, when he got to page 42, they were a little fed up.

Gilbert, you know where it worked? Once it worked great when he did The Great Gatsby. And it was on Saturday Night Live. Because it came out in tails, beautiful shirt and tie, and bow tie and tails. And he said, now I would like to read The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald. And he started reading it. And after about a minute and a half, the audience got rambunctious, and they said, oh, let's hear something.

And then he said, okay, okay, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you what. I will either continue with the great Gatsby, or I will play the phonograph record. So everyone's yelling out, phonograph record, phonograph record. Puts on the record, and it's him doing the great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald. And that was the punchline. So the bit worked.

The bit worked because of that punchline only he would think of that wow Gilbert you must have had an admiration for his desire to push the limits oh yes to push the audience

because you have a little of that in your act oh yeah you know you know what I'm saying George he likes to test the audience's endurance a little a little bit

to mess with to fuck with them I think I think I just he must have influenced you, didn't he? Yeah, well, I remember the clubs. A few club owners said back then they used to put me on stage to clear the crowd out when they were ready to close up.

That's hilarious. I found this, and George, I thought I knew so much about Andy. I didn't know that Tony Clifton was loosely based possibly on Belzer. Yeah, well, I would say that was the main inspiration. How about that? Wow. Do you know that? No.

That's good stuff. Only because Richard Belzer and a lot of times, I've seen him too, you know, Catch a Rising Star in the early days. He was just very insulting towards the audience. He was in command. He didn't give a shit about the people in the audience. So, you know, and that's Tony Clifton's attitude. You know, he just, you know, put the audience down and went. But Andy told me that was like his big influence.

And when Andy first started doing Tony Clifton, first he did it without any makeup. Then he had a little thin mustache. And then, then he started putting the makeup where you could not recognize. There's no way you would know it was Andy Kaufman. When they came after him, I invited Ed Weinberger and Jim Brooks to see him at the improv in L.A. They were casting Latke for Taxi. So he was a foreign man.

I mean, it was pretty much of a natural. And at the Comedy Store, the main room. Have you ever played the main room at the Comedy Store? Oh, yeah. Yeah. So it's a nice room. It's like 400 seats. And they were there. And Tony Clifton was the opening act.

You know, and he sang his songs and insulted the audience and everything else. It was Andy, but no one would recognize it was Andy. Jim Brooks and, you know, Ed Weinberg, you know, they had no idea it was Andy. So then they told me they'd love to have him. I said, well, let me talk to Andy

because he wasn't that interested in doing a sitcom he really liked writing material for his act putting an act together and adding things that was his creative force so he said I'll tell you what I really don't want to do a sitcom but I'll do it

if they give Tony Clifton four episodes I said the order was for 22 episodes for Taxi. And Andy said, I'll do 14, and Tony Clifton has to do four. Otherwise, we'll pass. We'll forget it. I said, I'll go to them on that, you know, because I like the craziness about it, you know, going to them like that.

I really, really enjoyed it. Did you have to do it, okay, go ahead. So I went to Weinberger and Jim Brooks and said, look, the only way he'll do it is if you hire Tony Clifton. That was Andy under the makeup. So that was him playing Tony Clifton. So they didn't want to do it, but they said, we'll do it. It's worth it to have Andy

because no one can be better as Latke Gravis, you know? So Latke, out of the box was a hit. The show was a hit, you know, and it was great. Then they wrote a role for Tony Clifton, Nick DePalma. Oh, yeah. DePalma's kid brother, a ne'er-do-well gambler, drinker, you know. So it was a really well-written role, you know, playing his kid brother who came to visit him. He was in trouble.

You know, he needed money. And so Tony Clifton gets these two hookers. He rents a Winnebago bigger than Judd Hersh's. Bigger than Judd Hersh's. He has the two hookers in there. And then it comes time to read with the script. So he brings the two hookers with him. He puts one on each knee.

He said, these are my friends. I hope you don't mind. They came here to the reading. They're both my friends. So then he starts reading the script. He puts one on each knee. He said, these are my friends. I hope you don't mind. They can't hear it. They're both my friends. So then he starts reading the script. He's reading the script. He said, bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, my line. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, my line. And so he's doing

the show. Then they start rehearsing it. And then two days later, I get a call from Ed Weinberger saying, boy, it's really not working out with Tony Clifton. First of all, he's been drinking. You know, Andy didn't drink, but he always had – he was drinking whiskey from a bottle, you know, Jack Daniels. And he said he's not working out. He comes late for rehearsals.

He's not that good an actor. And we'd like to let him go. But I, in my infinite wisdom, in the contract, I said Andy would have an out, opt out if they fired Tony Clifton because I anticipated that. And in the deal, I also had a separate dressing room and separate parking places for Tony Clifton. That's in the contract.

So when he said they'd like to fire him, I said, you know, Andy has the right to leave. I just want you to know that. So Ed Weinberg said, well, please talk to him and see what you could do, see if he's willing to do it. But it's not working out with Tony Clifton. So I went to Andy, and Andy said, I'll tell you what. I'll let them fire me.

Only if it's at the run-through when all the network people are there and all the studio people, the Paramount is there and ABC. He wanted to do it in front of an audience, and he did it. That was in the movie when they fired him. Yeah, sure. Yeah. And they had security grab audience and he did it. That was in the movie when they fired him. Yeah, sure. And they had security grab them and pull them out. It was the front

page of the Los Angeles Times. And then, so they threw him out. He said, let me go to my Winnebago. They wouldn't let him. They threw him out. I said, my girls, they threw him out and we met at the Nicodel restaurant. We made up the Nicodel restaurant around the corner.

And he came out with the makeup off. He was Andy. And he said, George, this is the greatest day of my life. This is theater of the street. This is theater of the street. This is what I love more than anything. And he was thrilled. I never saw him so happy.

That's great. And he went down and he did five years of Taxi. Theater of the Absurd. There's also that Dinah Shore episode, which you could find on YouTube, where he did Tony Clifton and he insisted that Dinah sing. She was pushing the cooking segment. Charles Nelson Riley

sat there. I urge our listeners to check it out. It's completely crazy. Welcome. First time you've been on our show. First time. It won't be the last. No. I know. Fine. Thank you. Thank you very much.

You know Mr. Charles Nelson, right? I know you. Wonderful. Nice to see you. Now, I understand you're going to cook something for us, and a man with your busy schedule, I know you... What about I was supposed to sing another song? Oh, I didn't know that. I thought you wanted to... you were going to cook something. Well, I was... I came and I was supposed to sing another song. Oh, I didn't know that. I thought you wanted to, you were going to cook something. Well, I was going to sing another song here. Oh, I didn't know that.

I thought with your busy schedule, I think your agents told us that with your busy schedule, you had other demands. I didn't, I'm... What's up, President? Oh, of course, go right ahead. All right. Yeah. I'll tell you what.

You have a lot of very interesting... Hey. You have a... I was, you know, I was very happy to be here with you on your show. Thank you. Thank you. We're delighted to have you. You have a lot of friends. Well, I like to...

They're very highly of you. Thank you. You're in Las Vegas from time to time? That's right, yeah. And have a lot of big selling records? Well, I haven't made any records. What do you think? I've got a lot of people here. Oh. I haven't made any records. Oh you think i'm going to go tell people here oh well now they told me that you had uh now look i'll tell you one thing

yes i came here they rushed me over here they rushed me over here via by a certain time and i have to sit here and watch this bird oh i'll tell you something i don't appreciate i have to watch the bird well you want to see some birds I got some chickies over there boy I got some chickies over there come on say hi girls shout out to the chickies here

come on come on one two three hi Tony hi girls okay yes and Tony Tony said

I'll make some eggs and he smashes the eggs and he throws it in Dinah's hands. Yeah, that's right. He throws both of the eggshells in Dinah's hands. Yeah. I had to send flowers. I think he flicks water at her at one point. Yeah, two bouquets of flowers I had to send her.

The audience is so dumbfounded. And I don't even think Charles Nelson Reilly knew what the hell was going on. And I could not reach Andy under Nelson Reilly knew what the hell was going on. And I couldn't reach, I could not reach Andy under that makeup. It was Tony. Uh-huh. He said, Mr. Shapiro,

this is the way it is. I don't care what you say, Mr. Shapiro. I don't, this is how it is. You know, so it was, I could not,

I could not reach Andy under that makeup. Tony, it was just like, like Jim Carrey. I mean, he's totally immersed in the character. You were telling us that before we turned the mics on, too, that on Man on the Moon that Carrey would not leave character either. Well, that's why you have to see this documentary.

Yeah, plug it. It's just something that everyone is talking about because it's such a human story about Jim Carrey. I mean, the revelations into his psyche at the time. What's the title again, George? It's called Jim and Andy, The Great Beyond. Okay. And it's on Netflix.

Speaking of documentaries, I want to promote your documentary, which Gilbert and Darren and I all watched. If you're not in the Obed Eat Breakfast, which is fantastic. Yeah, that was incredible. I mean, these guys, when you see, Norman Lear now has a new pilot on NBC.

It's called Guess Who Died? Oh, yes. About a retirement home. They're shooting the pilot, I think, in a couple of weeks. Oh, he's been working on that for a long time. Glad to see that's happening.

And one day at a time, he just picked up for 12 more episodes on Netflix. And Rita Marino plays the grandma in the series that he did in the 70s.

Yeah, one day at a time. So, Norman Lear and Carl Reiner in their mid-90s have never been busier. Oh,

Carl is amazing. Oh, listen to this. There's a show called Angie Tribeca. Rashida Jones. Quincy Jones' daughter is a star of the show. And she's amazing. And I wasn't familiar with it, but Carl told me to come over to his house. And we had dinner, and I watched two episodes.

And it's just such an unusual show. It's a good police show, and comedy is integrated so beautifully in it. And Carl ends up in bed with two women. He plays an old retired FBI agent, and he's in bed. I'll send you the pictures. It's hilarious. Heather Graham is one of them, and then Rashid. I'll send you the pictures. It's hilarious. Heather Graham is one of them and then Rashid.

So they wanted Carl so much that Carl said, I'd like to work at my home, go to writing his books. They came over. They rewrote the scene so that they could shoot the whole thing in Carl's living room and then in the bedroom. And they shot the whole thing there, and it was absolutely stunning. How about that? It'll be on in about four weeks. I'll let you know when we get the firm air date. So that's coming up.

This guy's busy. And Sandra Bullock he loves, and he did Ocean's 8 with Sandra Bullock. You know, he just continues doing it. And Saul Bloom. Oh, he's playing the same character. Oh, wonderful. Wonderful. So it was Ocean's Eleven, 12, 13, and now Ocean's Eleven with Sandra Bullock. Wow, that's great.

And the women do the heist. That's great. And like Dick Van Dyke, who I think he recently, he had announced his retirement, and then he just came back from England where he did the new Mary Poppins. Yes, he sang and danced. He's 92 years old, and he sang and danced, and I heard he was absolutely great in it. I'm sure he was. And I also heard he spent extra time working on the Cockney accent this time.

Yeah. Because he got in a lot of trouble. He was embarrassed by his original Cockney accent. You're right. You know everything, Gilbert. He just had dinner with Dick, too. Yeah, we had dinner with Dick Van Dyke. He was, you know, great.

And when we're leaving the restaurant, he did a little dance in front of the restaurant. It was amazing. Was there music playing or he danced a cappella? Nothing. Just fell into some little dance. I got to tell him. Go ahead, George. No, no.

I'm just saying he did that in, if you're not in the Obed, eat breakfast. Yeah. You know, he danced in his kitchen with the straw hat. Oh, it's wonderful. Yeah. You know, he danced in his kitchen with the straw hat. Oh, it's wonderful. Yeah. It's wonderful. I mean, you call the movie a love letter to the human race, and it really is inspiring. People throw that word around a lot.

That 100-year-old woman, Ida Keeling, the woman who is, she's not a celebrity, but she's a... She's 102 years old now. 102, incredible. No, yeah, when we filmed it, she was 100. Yes. Now she's 102. She has. 102, incredible. When we filmed it, she was 100. Yes. Now she's 102. She has a new book coming out. Did you see this woman?

She's the black woman that runs? Yes. From the Bronx, my hometown. From the Bronx? Yeah. So she is amazing. And yeah, she's going to come out here and I think promote the book too. And who was the woman who marched with Gandhi when she was 12 years old?

That's Tao Boop, who's Sean Lynch. She's a yoga teacher, and she still teaches six times a week. She's 99. Incredible. She's going to be 100 on August 13th, and you're invited. You're both invited to a party in India. The Indian government. We're there.

The Indian government. Seriously. They're giving her her 100th birthday party. How about that? And I think it's in Mumbai. I'm not sure of the city. And she's going to play. They want to play the documentary,

if you're not in the Obed Eat Breakfast. Wow. So they're going to do that on 100th birthday on August 18th. And she flew out for the premiere of If You're Not in the Obed. We had that at the Academy Theater, Samuel Goldwyn Theater. She came out. She's 99. She's on the red carpet.

All these celebrities are tired already. She just answered every question, went up and down on the red carpet. Inspirational. That's what it is. So we had people in it from 90 to 102. And Tony Bennett sings The Best Is Yet To Come.

Yes. Which is the right song. My grandmother lived to 104. What was her name? A Minnie. You had a grandma Minnie too? Yeah.

Look at that. Oh, amazing. Gil, you got those genes. We're going to be doing this podcast till 2049. That's fantastic. Hopefully my co-hosts will die by then. Nope, you're out of luck. My grandmother lived to 100.

Oh, jeez. My maternal grandmother. Gil, but did you say grandmother lived to 100. Oh, jeez. My maternal grandmother. Gilbert, did you say she lived to 104? 104. Wow, that's fantastic. Totally alert. About that. That's fantastic.

She used to dress herself in the morning would subscribe to the Jewish Forward and, like, just read every day with a big magnifying glass. Fabulous. I love her. You know, we've done 180-something of these shows, George, and we've had, I think. Hey, that's exactly how many Seinfeld episodes there were, 180. There you go.

We've got to end now, then. We've got to end with this one. Okay, well, anyway. We've had nine people on this show in their 90s. Really? Carl and Dick and Norman and Sonny Fox and Bill Macy and Roger Corman and Marty Allen and Lee Grant. And I'm happy to say they're all still with us. Well, I know that's incredible.

What a tribute to these people. And it's all about vitality, being engaged with people. When you see that thing, Patricia Morrison also was in it. Patricia Morrison, yeah. Yeah, Kiss Me Kate, she created the role. And she's 102. And she is still having fun with her friends. They come over. And it's exactly what we're talking about, the engagement with friends and family and being active.

And Dick Van Dyke's book is Keep Moving. Keep Moving, yeah. Do what you love, and that's what you guys are doing. Well, we feel the same way about these people you know we want to get their stories and we want to we want to introduce them to younger generations you know that's what we that's what we've been able to do with this show we're very proud of that and well you guys oh sorry no i was just going to say you guys are doing great work what were you saying no i was saying when saying when I was doing actually press for my documentary

and Bill Macy came there and was in the audience. And then he wasn't there toward the end of the show. And we heard he was having trouble breathing and he had to be rushed out of there. And so we were worried. We call the next day and we said, well, what hospital is he at? And he wasn't at the hospital. So we called him up and we said, well, can we stop by your house and bring you a coffee

or something? And he said, I'm not at my house. I'm at the casino. Oh, my God. Yeah, he just had a shortness of breath, and he got over it. That's it. Yeah, and he was out gambling. That's so impressive.

I left out two people. Marty Allen. I said Marty Allen. Will Jordan is 90. Oh, my God, yes. And Larry Storch was here with us, and he's 95. That's fantastic. Or 96.

I am so impressed with you guys. Well, you know, this is what brings us pleasure and joy, George. And I'll tell you, another thing that comes across in the documentary is the love story, this long love story between Carl and Mel. This love story between these two men and the great affection that they've had for each other all these years. It's so nice to watch. Mel is there every night.

Except when he's not in... Mel did The Young Frankenstein. He did this revised version and he was in England for three months doing rewrites and it's a huge hit on the West End now. They extended it from September, I think from February to September

or October of this year. So he has another big hit. And he's 91, and he's been out there working like a young Broadway producer, writer, director. And I heard he and Carl get together every night and watch movies together. Yes, every night Mel is there. Sometimes Carl makes fun of him because Mel falls asleep with his mouth open. Don't tell anybody.

Don't tell anybody. Their favorite, I understand, are movies that involve the line, secure the perimeter. Yes, that's their favorite. Right. That's their favorite movie. Boy, you did great research. Congratulations to both of you. George, this was so much fun for us.

I loved it. I loved it, and it's so nice to get this part of Gilbert Gottfried, this kind of engagement and departure from his presence. But Andy Kaufman had to influence him to take the risk that you take on stage. It's just so beautiful. And if people are laughing at you, you know you're helping them stay healthy. Oh, thank you. What a lovely thing.

Wow. We'll plug the doc again. It's wonderful. If you're not in the obit, eat breakfast. After 90, people don't retire. They inspire. Well, thank you very much. Very, very much.

Couldn't be more. I liked your Jackie Mason before, George. Okay, well, goodbye, boys. This was a thrill. Gilbert's going to sign off. Okay, keep up the great work. So this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we have been talking to the great George Shapiro.

George, thank you. Thank you. It was great. A treat for us. Thank you. There's a saying that goes, you're as young as you feel. And I know for a fact that it's true. If there's youth in your heart, show the calendar out.

Cause your age depends on you. Fairy tales can come true. It can happen to you if your young is hard. can come true it can happen to you if you're young at heart for it's hard you will find to be narrow of mind if you're young at heart If you're young at heart You can go to extremes

With impossible schemes You can laugh when you dream Fall apart at the seams And life becomes exciting With each passing day And love is in your heart all on its way

don't you know that it's worth every treasure on earth to be young at heart fall as rich as you are It's much better by far To be young at heart

And if you should survive To a hundred and five Look at all you'll derive Just by being alive Now here's the best part You have a head start If you are amongst the very young That part I'm a monster very young and hard If you're young and hard

If you're young and hard And if you should survive To a hundred and five Look at all you derive Just by being alive Now here is the best part You have a head start If you are the most of the young At the bar Ask the love Ask the love Thank you. on Beach. Special thanks to Paul Rayburn, John Murray, John Fodiatis, and Nutmeg Created. Especially Sam Giovonco

and Daniel Farrell for their assistance.