Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 234. Leonard Maltin Returns

Episode Date: November 19, 2018

Gilbert and Frank welcome back author, film critic and Hollywood historian Leonard Maltin, who shares his expertise on a number of topics, including the death of fanzines, the disappearance of movie theaters, the charm of "The Maltese Falcon" (both versions) and the appeal of New York-set films of the 1970s. Also, Zeppo breaks up the act, Laurel and Hardy bring down the house, Steve Allen plays Benny Goodman and Gilbert and Leonard remember their dear friend James Karen. PLUS: Keefe Brasselle! "The Buster Keaton Story"! In praise of "Ed Wood"! (and "Going in Style"!) Al Pacino remembers "Scarecrow"! And Leonard spends a day with Burgess Meredith! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. Hey out there, this is Diane Ladd, and you've been listening to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. I'm here once again with my co-host Frank Santopadre and our engineer Frank Ferdarosa here at Earwolf Our guest this week is an old friend who's back for a return engagement

He's a journalist, historian, TV personality, podcaster internationally recognized film school scholar and a critic and the author of some... Not a film school scholar, and a critic and the author of some of the most influential and well-researched books on cinema and popular entertainment, including Of Mice and Magic, The Disney Films, The Great Movie Comedians, Our Gang, The Life and Times of the Little Rascals, Leonard Moulton's Movie Crazy, and his most recent book, Hooked on Hollywood. For 45 years, he's edited the essential, indispensable, and greatly missed Lennard Leonard Bolton's Classic Movie Guide, which includes reviews of the films from the silent era to the 1960s. But that's not all. Not by a long shot. I want a longer introduction. You'll get it.

Oh, I didn't know you were still here. He also teaches at USC School of Cinematic Arts and appears regularly at The Reels Channel and Turner Classic Movies.

And he's the host of an entertainment and informative podcast called Molten On Movies, which features celebrated guests like Al Pacino, Mel Brooks, Tim Burton, as well as our friends Drew Friedman, Paul Williams, Patton Oswalt, and Michael Giacchino. And one episode even featured that titan of the silver screen, Gilbert Gottfried. God bless you. Please welcome to the show someone who's forgotten more about Hollywood history than Frank and I will ever dream of knowing. Marge Simpson's

favorite film critic, our pal, Leonard Moulton. I've forgotten more during the course of that introduction than at any other time in my professional career, but it's very flattering.

Thank you, Gilbert. Yes, thank you, Gilbert. Here's what I wanted to start off with. Yeah. When I think of all the movies that I've seen over the years, some that I haven't seen, loads I've seen in movie theaters, some that I haven't seen loads I've seen in movie theaters and I think now none of these would ever make it to a movie theater and and movie theaters seem to be going the way of uh like vaudeville houses well some of them are but a lot of them aren't there's still a lot of life in the movie theater business

and I'm not ready to give it its last rights well that's good to hear and because I'm Jewish I couldn't give them their last rights anyway but I really don't think it's going away movie going is still a social activity you know what are you going to do Friday night Saturday night But I really don't think it's going away. Movie going is still a social activity.

What are you going to do Friday night, Saturday night? If you're a teenager, you want to go on a date. At any age, you want to just go and hang out with some friends and see something. For parents, it's an escape for a night. You pay a babysitter and go to the movies. Yes, there's a lot of temptation to stay home now. It's true. So there's no question that the competition has gotten ferocious.

And this has really hurt the small movie and the medium-sized movie. But you don't hear anybody, you know, the week that the Avengers Infinity War is open, you don't hear anybody saying, ah, I'll wait for Cable. You know, they all want to be there. So you're saying they still show up for event movies. See, but that's the thing. Event movies, tentpole movies, all that stuff. Yeah, yeah.

It's like, I think of people who are stars now, and I wonder, like years ago, like Julia Roberts. Yeah. Could she nowadays, if she was younger, could she nowadays be making these cute, romantic comedies and having them put them in actual theaters? Well, you know, it's debatable. I don't know. Every now and then there's a surprise and something does break through. One of the breakthroughs this season since summer has been a documentary, the one about Mr. Rogers. Oh, yeah.

Won't You Be My Neighbor. Yeah. It's an absolutely wonderful film, very emotional, full of heart. And it's a documentary. And it's broken records so you know anything's possible that's why I choose to try to retain my optimism

well you're in LA Leonard so you've still got the arc light and the man's theater is it Grauman's now again? no but we're going to call it Grauman's the chinese theater you've got the egyptian you've got the cinerama you've still got you know movie show places we

lost oh yes we lost the zig felt here if you're lucky enough to get an invitation to go to a screening at the academy of motion picture arts and sciences they have a beautiful beautiful auditorium i remember it and and right before we got on the air, and this fits in perfectly, you were reading an article to us. If you could tell us about that. Oh, this is from, I think, yesterday's Los Angeles Times. And it's about Rick Caruso,

who's a developer out here who's had great success building not just malls but environments. He did the Grove, which is kind of based on Disneyland or inspired by Disneyland. He even has a trolley going through that'll take you to the farmer's market. And he's done one in Pasadena called the Americana. And his newest one is in Pacific Palisades, which is a very high-end neighborhood, and they've rebuilt, at great cost, a vintage movie theater called the Bay Theater, B-A-Y. And here are some of the menu items that I know Gilbert and Frank will recall from their childhood movie-going days.

will recall from their childhood movie-going days. Vegan spring rolls with Thai peanut sauce. And M&M's on the side. A Kobe beef burger with bacon and sriracha mayo, which is a great accompaniment to your red vines. And a brioche sandwich with sautéed shrimp, blended cheeses, and pickled strawberries. You know, it's a whole new world.

See, but there too, like more and more theaters have like really plush seats and reclining. They're trying. And massage. And it reminds me of like the idea of like when TV came out, that's when they were trying 3d like maybe this will get audiences right they wanted to drag people out of their living rooms and back into the movie theaters and it worked to a degree but not really long term well you mentioned the screen the screening rooms leonard and obviously you have access to all of these you know to all of these screenings do you still want

to see a movie? At the snap of a finger. Yes. By the way, that Academy screening room is the best sound I've ever heard. I remember seeing A League of Their Own there, and I couldn't believe how crisp it was and everything about it. The experience was pristine. It's the best because all the movie professionals go there. Absolutely. They have to meet the highest standard.

All the movie professionals go there. Absolutely. They have to meet the highest standard. Would you prefer to just go and have an experience like that in a screening room, or do you still want to see movies with an audience in a theater? Oh, that doesn't matter to me terribly much. I don't mind going. There are these modest-sized screening rooms all over town where they have press screenings mostly.

And some of them are, you know, maybe 35 seats, 50 seats, 75 seats. And, but the screen is a decent size and you're in the dark

and you're having the movie going experience. No brioche sandwich though. No, no, no, no pickled strawberries. No pickled strawberries.

Yeah. Yeah. The screening rooms here are pretty good too. There's a Disney screening room, a Paramount one. I'm in the Writers Guild, so I go at Christmastime. And it's a different way to see a movie if you're a purist. Well, yes.

I mean, and now, of course, though, it's getting tougher and tougher because this is not news to anybody. But they're now sending out, of course, screeners. Right. Which is to say DVDs and Blu-rays for the awards season. And it's very tempting to stay home. We moved four years ago to a new house and my wife, Alice said, we're getting an 80 inch screen, TV screen. I said, 80 inches? She said, yes, yes. We went to Costco to compare.

70-inch, 72-inch, 75-inch. Then there's a big price leap to 80, and I'm a cheapskate. And I stood there, and they all looked great. And I said, really, wouldn't a 70 or 70? She said, 80 80 inches it's got to be the bit well you know what she was right because now we have a better home viewing experience uh but a crappy movie is still a crappy movie yeah yeah but there's so many movies that i've

seen over the years where i thought you know if you never saw this movie in a crowded theater, then you never saw it. Yes, I agree. When my daughter, who's now 32, was nine years old, we took her to a Laurel and Hardy show on Broadway downtown here in L.A. There's a wonderful organization called the L.A LA Conservancy, which is kind of our historical society. They fight the good fight, trying to protect older buildings and keep progress from moving too fast. And they celebrate the remaining movie theaters on Broadway every June and July by showing classic films in these classic theaters, the largest of which is the Los Angeles Theater. I think it's 2,200 seats. That's a big theater. I mean, it's no Radio City Music Hall, but it's still a pretty big theater.

And to sit in that theater and hear over 2,000 people screaming with laughter at Laurel and Hardy was just such an exciting and heartwarming experience that's great and it's something that very few people have ever known even if you go to a you know a good funny movie today you're not going to have that many people surrounding you and you're not going to get that impact. We all make compromises. I will confess that at the end of the year when I'm trying to get to see some documentaries, some smaller films, some foreign language films,

I succumb to the seductive experience of just popping a disc in my DVD or Blu-ray player and watching it at home. Gilbert, you don't go to the movies much. No, no. And also, I've lost track of the movies that aren't the big blockbusters. Because that's the thing. I used to, whenever a paper came out, I'd go right to the entertainment section

because they'd have big pages of ads, and I loved looking through those. Those were the days. Sure. Now they don't have that anymore. I'm going to ask you something else. I'll bet you can tell me where you saw a lot of your favorite movies.

Oh, sure. Absolutely. I mean, I don't know what today's kids say. Oh, I saw that in Auditorium 6. I mean, there's no attachment. Right. There's no nostalgia to saying that. Right.

Yeah, I mean, I can think of seeing Herbert Ross's Pennies from Heaven in the Ziegfeld. At the Ziegfeld, I saw it there, too. Oh, yes. I saw it on a snowy afternoon, and I think it was one of the few people in the theater, and it's an experience I'll never forget. Don't you agree that sometimes the theater, the day that you're having, it colors the experience of seeing that movie, and it always stays with you? Of course. Yeah. Of course.

Yeah. Of course. How could it not? I'll tell you my most vivid memory. Well, there's lots of memories tied up with the Ziegfeld. But one Saturday when Alice and I still lived in Manhattan, we were curious to see John Schlesinger's film Honky Tonk Freeway. I remember that one.

This is an elephant teen whimsical comedy that's neither funny nor whimsical. And it was playing at the Ziegfeld. So he went to like an eight o'clock show. This is almost like the joke, what time is the movie? And they say, what time can you get here? There were maybe eight or 10 people

in this gigantic theater. We watched this lumbering movie. And when it was over, we went to the restroom and then we stood there for a minute and said, wait a minute, if no one shows up for the 10 o'clock show, are they still going to project the movie? And ultimately the answer is yes, because it's advertised in the newspapers you remember

newspapers oh and uh and so somebody shows up 10 minutes late you know they're entitled to still see the movie see but there too is like i remember on the train all these years people would be reading the paper folding it up so not to hit the person next to them and if they didn't have a newspaper they'd have like a paperback novel yeah and now none of that no is on you know what our fans send us leonard they send us pages of newspapers from the 70s the movie movie section, where you'll see, like, you know, Earthquake and Blazing Saddle, whatever was out at that particular time. People are collecting this stuff. People are very nostalgic about it, us included.

And I remember seeing, I saw Death Wish when I was living in Borough Park, and that was, like, the ideal time. Do you remember which theater? I don't remember the name of the theater it was on fort hamilton parkway and but i remember there too that experience was like the every mugger that he shot the entire place would blow up with people cheering and applauding. We had a very strange experience watching Death Wish, and I remember where we saw that. It was at a theater that they tore down a long time ago.

It used to be opposite Lincoln Center on Broadway. It may have been Columbus Avenue there where they sort of intersect, but it was before they built the newer Lincoln Center, Lincoln Plaza Theater there. Which they now closed. Which I read about, yes. Yeah, heartbreaking. So this other theater, we saw the movie, and we walked home.

We lived to 79th and Amsterdam. And we walked home past all of the locations where they had shot the film. Wild. Oh my God. It was so, it really creeped us out. We always ask our guests, we had Joe Dante on here. I know you had him too. And we like to ask our guests what their movie theater was when they were a kid. What the local. For me, it was a place called the Cross Bay Theater in Queens, which I don't think anybody remembers. And I guess Joe's from Detroit. No, no, Joe's from Philly.

Philly, Philly, Philly. And, yeah, he told us the name of the theater. And you grew up in Teaneck? Teaneck, New Jersey. So what was birthplace of Ricky Nelson? Yes. Very good. You needplace of Ricky Nelson. Yes. Very good. You need to know these things.

Yes. What was the local movie house? It's still in business. It's still there? Teaneck Theater on Cedar Lane. That's great. It's been sixplexed, I think, by now. But they're still operating, so that's something and this theater had a feature which i now retroactively uh

despise but thought was kind of curious and fascinating when i was a kid they had an illuminated clock on the wall right next to the movie screen What could be more distracting than that? Oh, so you're never really in the dark. Oh, exactly. Here's another thing. Like, when I, part of the movie-going experience for me was always, I love trailers. Uh-huh.

You know, movie trailers, I always, like, when a movie trailer came on, I always thought that was the greatest thing. And now they're having actual TV commercials When a movie trailer came on, I always thought that was the greatest thing. And now they're having actual TV commercials in the theaters. That's been going on a while. Yeah.

Well, I used to love trailers too. And I still love old trailers, which they show on TCM, which I used to collect on 16 millimeter. And I just loved them. I just loved them. And they had something you don't see anymore. They had style. They had personality. They occasionally used humor. And now every trailer is the same. They're all cut from the same cloth. And they act as if you're not going to watch them with seven other trailers. Yeah. So there's a routineness, a sameness. And I don't get the point of that. And if you've seen any of Alfred Hitchcock's old trailers, you know how he hosted them and had fun with them, as did Or orson wells sure with his great citizen kane trailers

and uh there there was a warner brothers what picture this you're going to the movies in 1941 that's before even my time but you go to the movies in 1941, and the trailer comes on, and there's a vast expanse of darkness, blackness. And a little pin spot in the middle is a face you've never seen before and a voice you've never heard before. It's Sidney Greenstreet. And they do a quick, as I recall, push in to him they reveal him you know full screen and he says come closer i have a story i want to tell you and he then promotes the maltese falcon that's great but that was the first time anybody saw he did some silent films and supporting roles but this was really his film debut what a grabber what a

way to get your attention and make make you want to see and then he did that for every other warner brothers film i think he was in that's the same formula since you brought up laurel and hardy you were telling me on email that you saw the new picture every every now and then something like this comes along and you and you scratch your head. Someone's actually releasing a biopic about Laurel and Hardy in 2018. It's not so much a biopic as it is kind of a character

study that takes place primarily, there are a few flashbacks, but it takes place at the twilight of their career. In the early 1950s when they toured the British music hall circuit. And they're no longer the big stars they used to be. And they hadn't been terribly close. I mean, they liked each other.

They always got along fine. Their wives, and they're each married more than once, didn't always get along as well as they did. But they're at this crossroads in their lives and careers. And it's a very poignant

and charming film. And I will tell you, this is the highest compliment I could pay this movie. I, who grew up watching Laurent Hardy every day of my life on New York television, and then became a member of the Sons of the Desert, the Laurel and Hardy Club, and even started the tit-for-tat tent of Teaneck, New Jersey when I was 13 years old. So they mean a lot to me, to put it mildly. I forgot I was watching actors.

That's how convincing John C. Reilly and Steve Coogan are as these characters. It's not just the makeup, which in Reilly's case is extensive, but you believe these, you're watching the real thing. How about that, Gil? We have to see it. I know. It's not opening until the last week of the month.

We'll have to go on a date. Yeah. We'll get the brioche and the ginger strawberries. Yes, of course. Whatever it was. Or some hard-boiled eggs and nuts. Yeah. You know, it's like, to me, I saw that there was that Three Stooges movie.

Yeah, there was. Farrelly Brothers, yeah. And I remember, I will say, I thought the actors were terrific in those parts. They did a good job, yeah. The makeup was terrific. I was convinced it was the Stooges, other than it wasn't funny at all. Well, you know, you can't have everything. Our friend Craig Bjerko was funny in it.

Yes. He was the bad guy. Right. I mean, you know, to quote Betty Davis from Now Voyager, we have the moon. Let's not ask for the stars. Of course. I probably just misquoted that line, but something like that. Which brings me to my question.

Why is it hard to make a good biopic, particularly of showbiz figures and entertainment figures? I mean, I think of the Chaplin movie, which wasn't very successful. No, no. If we really want to scrape the bottom of the barrel, W.C. Fields and me. The Steiger picture. That's not the bottom of the barrel.

That's not the bottom. Somewhere sliding down. Maybe Gable and Lombard is the bottom. There was the George Reff story. Sure. With Ray Danton. That's right.

Very good. And the Eddie Cantor story with Keith Brazile. With the fantastically talented Keith Brazile. I have a friend, an old friend and I have been teasing each other about Keith Brazile for decades. Whenever we find some nugget about his CBS variety show or some of the appalling movies he made during the 50s. We just fell over it.

Ask Cliff Nesteroff about him. I remember in that movie, he's Eddie Cantor and his good pal Jimmy Durante stops over. Oh, yes. The worst makeup job ever. Yeah. Franti stops over. Oh, yes, the worst makeup job ever. Yeah, it looked like they glued a hot dog to the guy's nose.

And he's there like, Eddie, how are you, Eddie? Let's go play the vaudeville house. Not one of the more memorable biopics. And then I also, and this is a problem with every movie, but particularly bios are based on true stories. And I always, one of my favorite is in the,

and also it's a bio, and that was the, oh God, now, Bobby Darin. Oh, Beyond the Sea. Oh, Beyond the sea with Kevin Spacey his manager is John Goodman yeah and at one point in the movie he says ah my career's gone nowhere and John Goodman has to go what are you talking about Bobby you won five gold albums, six won platinum, you were nominated for an Academy

Award, you were voted the greatest Las Vegas performer. And I thought, okay, let me write all this down. That's right. That's what they call exposition. Clunky exposition. Yes, clunky

indeed. Well, you know, there aren't very many good ones. I mean, there are always exceptions now and then. I just saw the Freddie Mercury film. Yeah, it's getting mixed reviews. And I enjoyed it. You did. I don't know how absolutely accurate it is, but this guy, you know, Rami Malek, again,

has convinced me that he was Freddie Mercury. And it's not the deepest dramatic biography I've ever seen. But the music is great. And it's enjoyable. See, I always, I'm a big fan of those movies, those TV movies. There were a bunch of them all at once there was the late shift that was about letter yeah yeah right and they followed it up with like the true story of charlie's angels and and uh true story saved by the Bell. I had a tire rotation appointment that night, so I couldn't see it.

See, but those, when I sit down to those, I go, okay, this is going to be shit, and I know that, so let me sit back and enjoy it. I'll tell you a good one. Exactly. A good one from a few years ago was Love and Mercy about Brian Wilson. Yes, that was actually a wonderful film. Really good. With two great performances. Two great performances.

But then there was also James Brolin as Clark Gable. I brought that one up. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Yeah. I saw that at one of the theaters in Times Square on Broadway. I can't remember which one. They're all gone now.

I don't remember. It was the Astor or the Criterion. Yeah, they're all gone.. I don't remember what's the aster of the criteria. They're all gone. One of those places. Uncanny that your, your recollection of where you saw all of these things, even bad movies. Standing on the, let's see the East side of Broadway looking West.

And those two theaters, which were neighbor theaters with the largest billboard ever created by mankind above them, where they had the Cleopatra billboard for many years and stuff like that. And in gigantic marquee letters, the old fashioned marquee letters, I saw the words, Robert Mitchum going home.

And I thought, what if you paid $6 or $7 and you go inside and you sit down, you buy some popcorn, and you see Robert Mitchum getting on a train and leaving? Because that's all they promised you. Robert Mitchum going home. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast right after these important messages. Hey, Ontario, got any plans? How about a trip to the casino right here, right now? With DraftKings Casino, all your favorite games are in the palm of your hand. Play the classics like blackjack, roulette, slots, and baccarat. Or take a spin on exclusive games you won't find anywhere else.

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Ah! Gil and Frank went out to pee. Now they're back so they can be on their Amazing Colossal Podcast. Okay. Kids, time to get back to Gilbert and Frank's amazing, colossal podcast. So, let's go. Here's a good

biopic, Ed Wood, that Larry and Scott wrote. Oh, that's a wonderful film. That's a truly wonderful film. Wonderful movie. It was made from the heart. Absolutely. And you can tell. You can tell that this is not just a job for these people. Tim Burton behind the

camera, Scott and Larry, a wonderful cast. That's a film I really care for. And it's like they understood that he was tacky and not very talented, but they treated it with sensitivity. It's a love letter, that movie.

Yes, it is. Yes, it is. And of course, Johnny Depp gives a wonderful performance because I think he captures what I think Ed Wood must have been like, which was a guy with great passion and enthusiasm, an infectious enthusiasm that surrounded his band of comrades behind the camera and in front of it, and all he lacked was talent.

Yeah. Yeah. I've mentioned on this show before that I think that's a subgenre, which is the crazy dreamer, like Tucker, a man in his dream, or Herzog's Fitzcarraldo, or Ed Wood, Mosquito Coast. I mean, they're all of a kind yes yes i agree with you and and i i think one of my favorite lines in ed wood is when he completes glenn and glenda and the movie producer that well a movie distributor says this is the worst movie I ever saw.

And he goes, well, my next one will be better. Very nice. How's the Keaton movie that Donald O'Connor made? I've never seen that one. Speaking of movies about comedians. The Buster Keaton story. Yes, not one of

the highlights of Parade of Motion Pictures. Oh, and I can forget that one, too. I remember when they did the TV movie of Robin Williams' life. Yeah. The guy imitating Robin Williams was great. I mean, he did a perfect imitation. But there, too. imitation but there too he's sitting next to somebody uh in in easy chair sipping a pina colada with him and and the guy goes so robin how you feeling and he goes oh i'm feeling wonderful

here i am sitting next to robert evans the producer of the Godfather, and I'm currently doing Popeye with Robert Altman, who did MASH. And here I am in Molte. Here I am in... They read the same how-to screenplay book that taught how to provide exposition in the clunkiest possible way. Yes.

Well, even in the Freddie Mercury movie, Bohemian Rhapsody, there's a part of the film where they fall back on cliche about some guy in show business who gets too much too fast yeah goes to his head he starts living you know uh exactly elaborately and extravagantly and uh there it felt a little shopworn do you know larry and scott have a marks brothers screenplay an unproduced one sure they completed that a long time ago. Did you get to read it? Nope.

They won't show it to anybody. Oh, what was your opinion on the Irv A. Villages movie? Oh, I haven't seen it. I missed the possibility of seeing it over the last few weeks. Have you seen it? Yeah. Talk about cliches there was like the whole movie is him and a reporter out for a wild night on the town and the reporter has split up with his wife and is an alcoholic and he loses every job he's in. And then at the end,

he learns something from that night. You know, like he's a better person. And I thought, this is a really old one. Well, every film of this genre potentially reminds me of the Jolson story. So, you know, they just get back to the same formula over and over and over again. reminds me of the Jolson story. So, you know, it's, you know, they just get back to the same formula over and over and over again.

And sometimes it may even be based on the truth. Here's one of my favorite lines of dialogue from the Benny Goodman story. Starring that great, great actor Steve Allen. He's actually somebody I have utmost respect for. Yeah, us too.

But not a brilliant actor, perhaps. And the character actress, Aileen McMahon, plays his mother, his aging Jewish mother. And she continually, repeatedly says to him, oh, Benny, don't be that way. Benny, Benny, don't be that way. Which was the name of one of his first big hit records. Oh! You know, so it's, again, the heavy hand of screenwriting lands right there. Well, there too, in an otherwise good movie that they fall for that is in the Ray Charles story.

Oh, you saw that, huh? Yes. the Ray Charles story. Oh, you saw that, huh? Yes. Yeah. And in there, he and his wife are having an argument and she says for him to leave

or she's leaving and he immediately hits the piano and goes, hit the road, Jack. Don't you come back no more. Alfred Hitchcock, before he came to Hollywood, made a film in England in the early 30s called Waltzes from Vienna about Richard Strauss, the great composer. And there's actually a scene, which it's been a long time. I won't describe it accurately,

but you'll get the idea. He's, you know, he's thinking, he's thinking, trying to get inspiration for a new composition, and everything around him is making sounds. There's a washerwoman outside wringing out clothes. He's, uh, he's, uh.

The crank is squeaky, you know. And all these sounds combine. And believe it or not, they wind up being the Blue Danube. Unbelievable. Well, what I love in movies is one person will play two or three notes. And there'll be a guy over his shoulder or a group of girls. notes and there'll be a guy over his shoulder or a group of girls and after one or two notes he'll start playing a whole medley and they're singing along together and you go how did it get composed and written in a second yes and the whole orchestra joins in yes yes gotta get that exposition or what you have or what you see on screen is like a five-piece combo,

and what you hear is a 60-piece orchestra. Yes. That's another pet peeve of mine. Leonard, let's talk about the new book. Let's talk about Hooked on Hollywood. If you like, I do. I see you brought a copy with you. I did.

I got it on Kindle, which is not ideal because there's so many great pictures. So I'm going to actually have to get a physical copy. But full of great stories. Hooked on Hollywood discoveries from a lifetime in film fandom. I mean, we pride ourselves on doing deep research, but we bow. We are not worthy. I mean, you going into those vaults and looking at just – it's exhausting to read about how much effort. I mean, this show is a labor of love, but you talk about a labor of love. Well, I mean, I always say some kids when I was growing up, you know, could recite all the baseball statistics for the New York Yankees, let's say.

You know, some kids got hooked on different things. I just became immersed in movies, especially movie history. And it's all I thought about. It was my hobby. It was my love and when i started uh writing and getting published in other fanzines what we used to call fanzines said today they would all be blogs uh uh to see my name in print at age 13 was very exciting and then i published my own fanzine uh had a sort of a trial run with a mimeographed one you know mimeograph machines every reference i make is defunct oh us too obsolete yeah mimeographed

well it's so funny i think of all the expressions like you sound like a broken record exactly yeah or um oh god so many things oh oh don't touch that dial we'll be right back there's a million of these things that nobody knows what the fuck you're talking that's why we do this show damn it yeah to keep it alive that's right you you do some really deep diving in that book and the last it's one of the last chapters in the book where you're talking about the history of rko yeah and you go one by one through all of those obscure rko pictures i mean some of them not so obscure but the but the detail i mean talk about a deep dive well that was not done overnight. I can imagine.

That was a long-term project that I did for my magazine, Film Fan Monthly. And do you remember Willoughby Peerless, the camera store? Yeah, sure. Yeah, Willoughby's. Willoughby's was near Macy's. Yeah, it's still there. 32nd Street. I think it's gone. Herald Square. I think it's gone,'s. Yeah, it's still, I think it's gone. Herald Square.

I think it's gone, yes. Yeah, yeah. The Herald is gone from Herald Square as well. There was an old New Yorker cartoon. I always remember of a guy, kind of a shabby guy, playing the violin with his open violin case, you know, on the sidewalk for donations. And he's wearing a little sign around his neck on a string that says,

moving soon to Herald Square. Anyhow, so I did this over a long period of time. There was a fellow upstairs in the office portion of Willoughby's who ran a something called Select Film Library. His name was Milt Minnell. And he used to, he knew all the film storage places in town, all the laboratories.

And if somebody didn't pay the storage fee, let's say, they'd call Milt and he'd say, I'll take the prints off your hands. And suddenly he'd acquire a whole room full of 16mm prints. He did that one day and got the entire RKO library

including titles that had been pulled from the library subsequently because of rights issues or remakes being done so he let me borrow as many as I liked and I would screen them, make notes give give them back, then take some more home. And you don't have to be crazy, but it helps.

Yeah. Well, William Everson, who I also studied with at the School of Visual Arts, he would lend students his films from his personal collection. He was literally generous to a fault. Yeah, yeah. Bill Everson was one of a kind. Lovely man. And the two of us were looking through your book, 151 Best Movies You've Never Seen. Yeah.

This one's from a while back, 2010. But great. Still this decade, though. Yeah. It's relevant. Now, there are some loads I haven't seen and some i of course have said well there was um going in style yes i like that movie yeah very good george burns which they just remade yeah they remade it unmemorably i can can imagine. But the original with George Burns and Art Carney and-

Lee Strasberg. Lee Strasberg was just a charming, wonderful film. It's wonderful. And what I like about it especially is they've got these senior citizens, but they don't play them cute. Yes. Yes. That was the key. Yeah.

Yeah. Martin Bress made that movie in his 20s. Yep. And I remember the music was... You're a sick individual. Is that the way it sounded on the soundtrack of the film? And George Burns says in it, he goes, you know, the three of us used to sit on that same park bench.

Occasionally, a politician would talk to us. Now in here, I get three square meals a day. Either way, I was in prison. Here I have friends. Pretty soon they'll ask me where the money's hidden. They don't know it, but

they're older than I am. That's great writing. He gives a real performance in that picture. I mean, obviously he had a second career in movies in the 70s. He really does. There's no George Burns there. He is that guy. Yeah, he's wonderful.

And when I saw the new Going In Style, I thought, you know, the three of them, you know, those three actors, The three of them, you know, those three actors, Alan Arkin, Michael Caine, and Morgan Freeman, certainly terrific actors. Sure. But it's just not good. They didn't have the material this time. The spark is missing. Yeah. Some real good ones in this book, 151 best movies, Citizen Ruth 2, which Gilbert and I like. Oh i love that movie terrific we have diane ladd coming in here if you ever get the dvd and listen to the audio track the

commentary track uh-huh it's uh the the director alexander payne yeah and his writing partner jim taylor yeah and the great laura dern who stars in the movie and gives an incredible performance. It's the three of them sitting down to watch the movie 10 years after they made it. Oh, that's great. And they sit, and so they're drawing on their memory and their recollections. And it's spontaneous because they really hadn't been together or seen the movie in a decade. Those are the best kind of commentaries. Yes.

Yeah, that's a great little black comedy. Both Gilbert and I like that one. And also, Gilbert hasn't seen this one, but I'll recommend it. You know what's a great black comedy? Oh, get out of here. The Jeffersons. Stop now.

The Door on the Floor. The Bridges, a Kim Basinger movie based on the floor the Bridges Kim Basinger movie based on the John Irving story yeah another great one another great one to see but also

one of Jeff Bridges great performances absolutely absolutely talk about an underrated actor but you also mentioned Scarecrow which is interesting

Al Pacino and Gene Hackman yeah and you had Al Pacino on the podcast which I just listened to and and uh and you and Jesse asked him about Scarecrow and he and he had memories his memories about it were vivid oh yes because I think uh I think everybody who worked on that has fond memories and uh it was such a an offbeat such a special movie. And these two guys, these two giant actors who had come into their own in the early 70s,

here they were playing parts that were so atypical, not what you expected them to be doing. And both Hackman and Al Pacino. And that's what stays in my memory is how good they were. Yeah. And how they sort of grabbed you with their offbeat casting. A movie people need to find.

The crows aren't scared of the scarecrows. They're laughing at them. And so then they think, hey, this Farmer Brown, he's not such a bad guy. Let's not eat his crops. That was like the explanation. Of course, Al Pacino was living his life like he'll make it all a joke and he'll avoid life. And that'll be his way of dealing with everything.

The opening shot of that movie is amazing. It is. It's a lockdown camera shot of a two-lane highway and a hillside across the road. And eventually you see a figure walking carefully down that slope toward the highway. And it just sits there and lets you take it in. It gives you a clue to the pace of the movie that's going to follow. And you're just fascinated to see who is this guy. It's Pacino's character.

And it's, you know, how do you open a movie? Well, maybe you open a movie with something people don't expect to see. Just, you know, an ordinary shot that has the nerve to linger on one moment in this little offbeat slice of life. And there's a part toward the end, I won't say what he finds out, but he's on a pay phone and he finds out this important secret in his life. And Pacino there doing absolutely nothing on the phone is like the greatest performance. Yeah. You see so much going on the greatest performance. Yeah. You see so much going on in his face.

Yeah. Now that's what I call, I have a new genre that I've invented. Do tell. The payphone movie. Absolutely. Absolutely. I revisited The King of Comedy last year.

That was the one that came to mind. Scorsese's wonderful film yes and they're always on payphones yes and in times square and all sorts of places and yes what gets me with the payphone movies how many movies have you seen where the good guy has to like rush across town and the bad guy tells him, now every five minutes you have to call me. And then it's a desperate search for a payphone that works. And it's like, yeah,

like people watching payphones now are going, what the hell is that? That's our favorite. Movies set in New York in the 70s involving payphones. It's weird to even, you go back and you look at something like Serpico and there's a scene with Tony Roberts and the Pacino and they're on the subway platform and there's a cigarette machine in the shot with the pole

handles. You might as well be looking at the turn of the century. I just watched another film that's coming up for awards season with Melissa McCarthy called Can You Ever Forgive Me? I liked it quite a lot. And it's set in, I think it's supposed to be the 70s. I'm pretty sure it's the early 70s. woman named Lee Israel, who had had some modest success as an author and then kind of hit the skids and desperate, desperate to make a buck any way she could, she starts forging letters from famous literary figures. And she's good at it. She really becomes well-skilled. There are no spoilers. I'm not giving anything away you shouldn't know.

And a lot of the film is spent with her going into these specialized used bookstores and talking to the dealers. And I was in a lot of those stores. Oh, that's great. For much of my life in New York. And so it reminded me, it rekindled memories of that era, of those places, the look, the feel, the sound. You could almost swear the smell. And I think you guys will maybe take to it for the same reason. Okay. There's another date for us, Gil. Another date night. You know, I

thought I knew a lot about Pacino, but listening to that episode, great stuff. I don't want to give anything away, too, but there's a Good Dog Day afternoon story. I'll let our listeners go and track down your episode and listen to it. Thank you very much. I don't want to give away any spoilers, but boy, he's got

his memory of making those films is sharp. It is, and he was willing to it. Thank you very much. I don't want to give away any spoilers, but boy, he's got a, his memory of making those films is sharp. It is, and he was willing to talk. Jesse and I didn't have the nerve, we wouldn't have thought, to ask him about those movies. He came because he was plugging a new documentary that he had, not so new, but newly released

on the making of his stage play, Othello. And, oh, Salome. Salome. Yeah, I think it was Salome. Oscar Wilde's Salome. And for which he discovered Jessica Chastain. And she's got it right there. You can see this is a beautiful, talented woman.

But Pacino was there essentially to plug that and we were happy to have him under any circumstances but then he starts talking about all those films and we weren't going to stop him we had a ball he he just he was down right jolly i mean he was just so happy happy to be there and happy to be talking about them. He was in great form and fine fettle. Yeah. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Before I jump off your current book, too, there is one thing that Gilbert's going to care about a lot,

and that is that you got to interview the great Burgess Meredith. Oh, yes. When you were very young. I was something like 16 or 17. I couldn't drive yet. He lived up in Pound Ridge, New York. And I love people who name their homes. That's something I aspire to do.

Like Tara. His home or whatever you want to call it, his compound, was named High Tour after a play of the same name by Maxwell Anderson. Great. And I just love that. I love that. And he couldn't have been kinder. Here I am a kid.

I hope I didn't come off too obnoxious or precocious, but I was a kid. I hope I didn't come off too obnoxious or precocious, but I was a kid. And my father drove me and came into his home. And he couldn't have been kinder or more generous with his time. And I'd learned by then, even then, that there were a couple of really magic subjects, if you're talking about old Hollywoodllywood with people and uh of course this is 40 years ago but or more it's more than 40 we won't go into that never mind uh but i asked him about working with ernst lubitsch yeah no one doesn't have a story about ernst lubitsch who worked with him because he was such a lovable man apparently and such a brilliant director and one of the things he did was he acted out the scenes for

the actors which most actors hate but they said he was so funny in the way he acted out they enjoyed it and they got the point of what what what tone he was looking for in the delivery of the scene. He had just made the Batman feature film. Ah, yes. Yeah, and he said he was kind of disappointed in it because he loved playing the Penguin, and it gave him a new lease on life almost. He called it something out of Dickens. Yeah.

Something out of Charles Dickens. That's how he saw it, which is great. But he was disappointed that the feature film didn't make more of the potential they had. It was just a cheap knockoff of the TV show. Directed by the great Leslie Martinson, who you also- Leslie Martinson, who I also interviewed, yes.

Somebody we wanted on this podcast, and he would have been absolutely perfect for us, but we didn't get him. Let me tell you how I met him. I went to a dinner. They used to have an annual event called the Golden Boot Awards, and I was on the board for a while. fund who operate the home and hospital out in Woodland Hills where anybody who's been in show business and the film business in particular can spend their final days in very nice housing. Or if they need medical assistance, they can get that. So everyone supported it. And every year, I mean, the first year I went, picture this, within five minutes time, I met and had my picture taken with Roy Rogers and Gene Autry.

Wow. Within five minutes of arriving. I know. I said to my wife, that's it. I can die happy now. That's great. And it was a wonderful, wonderful. Why am I bringing this up, though?

The train just left the station. Leslie Martinson. Let me bring our listeners up to speed. Leslie Martinson was a director. If you go and you look at his IMDb page, you'll be blown away. It's not a page. Yes. It's how many things that he actually directed in his lifetime and died at 101. Now, back in the days when we were growing up watching TV, you could read the credits. Yeah. Yes.

Yes. They didn't shrink them. They didn't speed them up. Yep. That's. So I found myself sitting next to this nice older man who I'd never met before. And I said, hi, my name's Leonard Maltin. He says, hi, I'm Les Martinson.

Leonard Maltin. He says, hi, I'm Les Martinson. And I said, are you the Leslie H. Martinson whose name I've seen on hundreds of TV shows? He said, well, I guess so. That's me. That's how I met him. But I only knew him from all those

credits which sank into my consciousness. I am so glad that you mentioned it because I also remember you'd see the movie and I'd sit there and watch every single credit

and they'd play the ending music. And the same thing happened to me, though, with the Jerry Lewis telethon. After a while, I realized, uh-oh, with Jerry Lewiswis off the air we better go right to the local affiliates so people don't start turning off their tvs and what i remember when that they used to have an ending to the jerry lewis telethon where the band would strike up. You know, jazzed up version of Smile.

And I thought that was part of the thrill. He'd sing the song, Breakdown Crying, and walk off stage, and they'd blast that upbeat number. And I thought that's part of the whole experience. Of course it is. I also grew up, I don't know why I found it so fascinating but the cerebral palsy telethon that aired locally in New York hosted by Dennis James from PDQ that's right Dennis James who was a genuine pioneer of television yes but known as a game show host in my generation. Exactly.

He also did wrestling. He hosted wrestling. He hosted everything. And I got to meet him late in life at the Golden Boot Awards. And he looked great, and he still had it all together. And apparently he used to go to different cities and do local telethons there. So it wasn't just New York. But Morty Gunty took his place Sunday mornings.

That's great. It was a live 72-hour telethon. I love these names. Someone had to come in. Why does that mean so much to me? Gilbert, help me. Why does this mean so much to me? And also it hit me too, like when you were saying you didn't know sports,

but you knew about showbiz. And I was the same way. I don't know what team is playing whenever. I don't know a thing about sports. But I would know, like different character actors and bit players and makeup artists. Yes, he cared about Onslow Stevens. Yes. Yes.

Very passionately. As one should. As one should. Can I ask you a couple of quick questions from listeners, Leonard? You can try. I like this one. This is good for you too, Gil. This is from Jason Grissom.

Based on Leonard's Marx Brothers entry in movie comedy teams, one gets the impression he doesn't see the value of Zeppo or didn't when he wrote it. Am I mistaken or does Leonard think Zeppo drags the movies down? Well, I never said he dragged the movies

down. I think it's just an impression he's getting. I just don't know what he added. See, we like the Zeppo ones. The Zeppo ones, I like them fine, too. Yeah. And you know what? I was just, my friend Robert Bader wrote a, you had him on the show. We had him.

That book is insane. That book is incredible. Incredible. But when Zeppo broke up the act, they were known as the four Marx Brothers. And there was a period of great concern about what would they do? They wouldn't be the four Marx Brothers anymore. You know, as it turns out, they did just fine as a trio. But no, so I don't see the, I don't want to say anything nasty or negative about Zeppo.

Goodness knows he was. Apparently, he could do Groucho. Yes. Yeah. And did during vaudeville. Yeah. If Groucho was ill or something or hungover, he could do Groucho. Yeah, that's one of those things where they say Zeppo was actually the funniest one of all of us on the stage.

And you try to wrap your mind around that. That book by Robert Bader. Remember we had Robert in and he wrote that book about the history of the March Brothers? Oh, and I remember there was a story. Groucho was off sick and Zeppo played his part on stage. That's the one he's talking about. And they said he was so good that Groucho rushed back to do the

next night. Yes. Out of sight, out of mind. You did a commentary for the re-release of Duck Soup? Yes, I did. For the Blu-ray that came out last year. Yeah. That must have been a blast. I did it with Robert. With Robert.

That must have been fun. We had a good time a good time yeah and hey the movie's like barely an hour and a quarter long amazing too how short they were yeah and how they fly by and it's like duck soup was the big explosion of like how great a movie comedy could be. And then after that, it was a quick fall. I never liked A Night at the Opera. See, I love that film. You like the MGM ones. No, I didn't say the MGM ones. Okay, that one.

I said A Night at the Opera. Okay. All the others are compromised in some way. Yeah, agreed. Oh, the ones after, anything after, I mean, Day at the Races was already weak, but anything after those. But has great moments. Yeah.

Terrific moments. Yeah. But anything after Day at the Races just gets more and more horrible to watch. Yeah. It's tough to watch those. Here's one more from Buddy Spencer, and I think you'll like this one. If Leonard could go back in time

and actually stop a movie from being made... This is like one of those Would You Kill Hitler? Would You Kill Baby Hitler? I love this question. What would it be and why? Well, it just might be the Eddie Cantor story with Jeff Purcell. I don't think anyone would censure me for doing that.

And you mentioned in your book the 1931 Maltese Falcon. Oh, yeah, that's in the 151 Best Movie. Which I think is with Ricardo Cortez. Yep. Who was Ricardo Cortez. They wanted to cash in on the Rudolph Valentino Latin lover thing. But he was like a nice-looking Jewish boy from the bronx jacob kranz yes jacob kranz but he he he uh you know used that slick back stuff in his hair brilliant team whatever they

were oh yeah brilliant team yeah yeah and he was a good looking man but in the 30s he became more of a character actor and he plays a Jewish role in I think Symphony of Six Million which is an interesting RKO movie and yeah I liked him but the funnier part was that once he changed his name

his brother who wanted to be a cameraman as they called him in those days not cinematographer. Ah, yes. Cameraman. And so he became Stanley Cortez. And that's the man who shot, you know,

the Magnificent Ambersons and the Night of the Hunter for Charles Long. Gee. Wow. Became one of the great cameramen, but he was Stanley Krantz. But you know what gets me? When I watched the Ricardo Cortez Maltese Falcon, I thought, I didn't like it that much. But I remember thinking, it's almost exact to the classic Humphrey Bogart version that would come years later. And how come the Humphrey Bogart version is so much more powerful?

Well, it had a better director, John Houston, making his directing debut. He also did the screenplay. But like the people who wrote and directed the 1931 version, they stuck to the book. That's why they're so similar. They're really just using Dashiell Hammett's narrative and dialogue. I thought when I saw the 31 version, which I saw like you long after I'd memorized the 41 movie, I thought, well, who could possibly play Casper Gutman?

Who could possibly take the place of Elisha Cook Jr.? Well, I think they cast those roles really well, because the Gunsel, who we know as Elisha Cook Jr., is played by Dwight Frye. Dwight Frye, yes. I mean, if you wanted a creepy

guy, you couldn't do better than that. Yes. And Dudley Diggs, who's a familiar character actor, is very good as Casper Gutman. I mean, you know, and B.B. Daniels is a very good leading lady. And the 31 version was pre-code.

So it's got a little more sexual tension in it and some implications of things going on that they don't actually show. And I think it's an interesting film. Hey Gil, since Leonard's talking about Sidney Greenstreet and Maltese Falcon, favor him a little bit.

Give him a little taste. No, it's you who bundled it. You and your stupid attempt to buy it. Kevin found out how valuable it was. No wonder he had such an easy time finding it. You imbecile. You blundering fathead. Bravo.

Bravo. Is that perfect? It is perfect. He does Sydney Green! Bravo. Bravo. Is that perfect? It is perfect. He does Sydney Green Street too. Yeah. I enjoy talking to a man who enjoys to talk. I distrust closed mouth men.

They usually say too much at the wrong time. Beautiful. It keeps me entertained, Leonard. With that, the Bogart Maltese folk, and when I look at everyone in that, I think if someone were to say to me, who was, tell me quickly, who Humphrey Bogart, Peter Lorre,

Sidney Greenstreet, and Elijah Cooke were, I'd go, just watch that movie. And they were all at their best. I got to interview Elijah Cooke once. Wow. Just briefly. And I said, because he turns up in late 30s movies playing college freshmen, you know, all sorts of innocuous parts.

He had a sitcom career, too, in the 30s movies playing uh college freshmen you know all sorts of sitcom career too in the 70s yeah and uh and i said uh uh did it bother you that after uh playing wilmer in the maltese falcon you were almost exclusively cast as weirdos and wackos he said no it's more fun playing pricks and you know you were talking about the maltaltese Falcon and the Sydney Green Street speech and I remember I when I saw the Maltese Falcon I thought if I were to make a trailer it was there's one line in the Maltese Falcon where Sidney Greenstreet says if, oh he goes, I love Wilma

oh, I love Wilma like a son but if you lose a son, you can always get another one. There's only one Maltese Falcon. And I thought that line would have been the entire trailer if I made it.

What a line. Everybody in that film is so good. Lee Patrick as Effie, the secretary. Oh, yeah. Mary Astor. Yes. Mary Astor has never been better. What a great, great.

I mean, she's playing a woman who is deceitful. And so she has to be convincing enough to let Bogart fall for her line for at least a little while. But she has to convey in some way that she's not telling the truth. It's one of those movies that just makes you happy to be alive. Oh, Barton McLean, Ward Bond. Barton McLean. Yes. Jerome Cowan.

What a cast. Gladys George. And a tiny appearance by Walter Houston. Walter Houston, yes. Yes, yes, yes. And I heard that Mary Astor would run before some of her scenes so she'd be out of breath when she was talking to him to get that nervous scared performance. That's great. Oh, that makes a lot of sense.

A wonderful movie that everybody needs to see several times. And I heard also as a joke, Bogart and Peter Laurie used to walk out of, sneak into Mary Asch's dressing room and then walk out zipping their flies up.

Those were the days. A clunky segue, but Leonard, in the little time that we have left, we have to talk about our mutual friend, James. James Caron. Jimmy Caron. Little did I dream when I grew up watching this pleasant man who was the spokesperson for Pathmark Supermarket. Yes, indeed.

That's where most of us knew. Where we first saw him. And that I would get to know him and become a close friend. He and his wife, Alba, are very close to all of my family, my wife, Alice, my daughter, Jessie. And we're sad for Alba, really, because she's lost her soulmate. And we're sad for us because no more stories from Jimmy.

And he had lots of them. Boy, did he have lots of them. He was a working actor who came to New York from Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania and hung out with Marlon Brando in the 40s, was at the actor's studio when Marilyn Monroe was there in the 50s. He did so many things. And he was very social. He collected people. He acquired new friends anywhere he was, anywhere he was working.

And this is out of the blue. He did a guest shot on Hawaii Five-O. He did a guest shot on Hawaii Five-0. So they fly him to Hawaii, and he's sitting in a car, a police car, with the co-stars of the show. And I'm not going to get all their names right, so I won't do it at all. But you all know who the other guys were. Oh, Cam Fong and those guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And Jack Lord, who was in the driver's seat, gets up and gets out of the car for a while while they're waiting to set up the next shot. And Jimmy says to the other actor, oh, James MacArthur. James MacArthur was there. So Jimmy says to MacArthur and some of the other guys, so, because he's a very social guy, so how long have you been on the show? And what do you do? Do you live here full time?

And they're being very reticent. They're very reticent. And he said, is something wrong? And they said, we're not allowed to talk when Jack is in the car. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You told me a story how like the son of the head of Pathmark. Yes.

Yeah. Yes. Well, I guess the statute of limitations has passed. And Jimmy's gone. So I'll tell this story without comment or embellishment. Okay. But he wound up working for them for 30 years. At one point, they were going to get rid of him, and then they did some testing and surveying and found that he was the most recognizable man in New York television.

Because, let's face it, the news anchor on Channel 4 is only on Channel 4. Sure. The one on Channel 11 is only on Channel 11. Jimmy was on all the channels, speaking for Pathmark all those years. So that was his first near miss. They had to re-sign him. But then the son of, I think the chairman of Pathmark stores,

I don't want to impugn the wrong person here, was kind of a smart ass. And he said to Jimmy one day when they were shooting in the autumn, I think, you know, man, this is probably the last cycle that we'll have you doing these. Jim said, well, you know, I know nothing lasts forever, you know, but can I ask you why? And the guy says, why? He says, look in the mirror, man. You're old. And Jimmy said, well, I hope you die of cancer. Without missing a beat.

Without missing a beat. That's what he responded. Now, DeWayne. Oh, my God. He's such a nice man. You don't even imagine that coming out of him no of course not of course not and that's what makes it funny i remember a couple of years ago i was in a movie in la and the director knew i was crazy about old hollywood and he goes well you're going to be working tomorrow with this actor james caron who i

think you two will get along with great and i didn't know the name at the time the minute i saw him it was oh oh that guy yeah and then it was the minute we started talking it's like we knew each other for 20 years yes that's that's how he was and he uh then after that like when i sometimes i'd call him or he'd call me and it was always the same greeting he would always go well hello my boy yes he was he was just a a sweetheart of a guy uh i'll you, and he came from a show business stock, good bloodlines. And that came up when I was at the TCM Classic Film Festival.

This is maybe four, five years ago tops. And they had succeeded in finding and flying over Peggy Cummins, the leading lady of Gun Crazy. Yeah, I love that one. And she was still a beautiful woman. And so we all watched Eddie Muller, the czar of noir, interviewed her on stage at the Egyptian, no, at the, maybe it was the Egyptian theater.

And then we left midway through the movie because we were all going to have dinner. So she said to me, I happened to be in stride with her crossing Hollywood Boulevard. And she said, who is that nice man, that interesting man who was just talking to me? I said, well, his name is James Caron, Jimmy Caron. I said, he's a working actor, character actor. I said, in fact, his uncle was Morris Karnofsky, a great star of the Yiddish Theater and Broadway as well. And she looked at me, she said, well, he's in our movie, isn't he?

He plays the judge. Morris Karnofsky plays the judge at the beginning of Gun Crazy. How about that? So, I mean, you know, what, you know. Great connection. There are only six people, there are only six connections in life, right? I learned so much about him, too, from your tribute, from the tribute on your website. I didn't know that he was friends with George Clooney and Morgan Freeman and Oliver Stein.

I know, as you say, he collected people. He collected friendships. He did. Our friend Richard Kind, obviously, too, was close to him. And I didn't know the Bryan Singer story, which is a touching story. That he did that for a kid. That he gave a kid a little. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There was this talented kid going to the USC film school and asked Jimmy to play a part in one of his student films. And he did. And being social, again, Jimmy struck up conversations with him and got to know him a little bit and learned that apparently Brian's parents were not supportive of him going into this field. So Jimmy took it upon himself to handwrite a letter to Bryan Singer's mom and dad to say that he thought that Bryan had a lot of talent and that he wasn't wasting his time or going off on a wild goose chase, that he could really succeed in the film world. And it made a difference. Well.

It made a difference. What a nice thing to have done and i remember he always when we talk on the phone he'd oh he would always say to me oh and tell your wife she has all of my sympathy he knew how to deliver a line he did and i went went to his house, and a thing when guests went to his house was he owned one of Buster Keaton's hats. Yep. And he would take a picture of them wearing Buster Keaton's hat. Yep.

He was very close to Buster's widow, Eleanor, and was a devoted friend to her and she to him. And what he did for Keaton, too, at that point in his life was also generous. Oh, yes. Here's another story. One story that James Caron always told me to shut up when I was on the podcast. We can always cut it out. Go ahead. Yes.

When I was on the podcast. We can always cut it out. Go ahead. He said when he was doing, you know, any given Sunday with Al Pacino and Cameron Diaz, that Cameron Diaz one time came in and said, oh, my breasts feel so sore. And she said, Jimmy, would you rub my breasts for me and and he rubbed cameron diaz breasts and i always thought boy if if that were me i'd be i'd make sure everybody knew that story that's the that's the one he didn't want you to tell on the podcast hey because he's now i'm insulted he never told me that story. Because I said,

tell a Cameron Diaz story. And he said, I don't want to hear her name out of your lips. I called him a couple of weeks ago. He had never signed a release form for this show, Leonard. And my wife found it

in doing the paperwork. And I said, oh, good, an excuse to call James. And I called him, and Alba got on the phone, and we talked. And boy, Gilbert, did he love you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I really feel blessed that I got to talk to him. Yeah, well, I feel the same.

One last time. He really brightened everybody's life. He did. And as those last days, his voice was exactly the same. Sounded the same to me. And still bright and energetic. I know. The weird part is, and George Clooney referred to this when he accepted his AFI Lifetime Achievement Award this past spring. Lifetime Achievement Award this past spring.

He opened his speech, actually, Clooney did, by talking about his good friend, Jimmy Caron, and how a couple of years ago, it looked like he was headed toward death. We remember. And in fact, Alba had put him in hospice care. And so she asked me on his behalf to write an obit and make sure it was accurate. I said, I will.

And she gave me a couple of names of people who might reach out with some quotes for the obit. And so my wife picked up the phone one morning and it was Morgan Freeman on the phone. Now that doesn't happen every day. So my wife picked up the phone one morning, and it was Morgan Freeman on the phone. Oh. Now, that doesn't happen every day. No. Except maybe if you're his agent or something.

And I got on the phone with him, and he couldn't have been sweeter. Well, I will—I'm sorry to interrupt. And then George Clooney sent me a series of emails back and forth. He was in London at the time. And Oliver Stone gave us a statement a very nice statement because he directed jimmy several times and uh it uh he cut a a wide swath you know for a man who was not you know a star yeah he was not i mean you knew him gilbert but you knew him by face yeah on site you didn. You didn't know who he really was. But he sure made a difference in a lot of people's lives.

That's nice. I was going to say, I will direct our listeners to go to your website and read the tribute. And the Clooney stuff is really quite beautiful. Thank you. Yeah. And it was a lovely tribute. Also, by the way, I should put a cap on the story, is I finished the obit and then he lived.

Yes, he rallied. He rallied. He didn't need hospice care. I think what they had, they had either misdiagnosed something or were giving him too much medication, something of that sort. And whatever the circumstances, he was back to being his old self. And I picked up the phone one day and it was him on the phone. And it was, you know, I've never had an experience like that before where someone has been written off and then bounces back. And he did. Now, you know,

he was weaker. And in the last year or two, he was definitely weaker and slimmer, lost weight. And he had good days and bad days, but he was essentially still our Jimmy. I'm glad that he got to stick around so long and affect so many people's lives. Yeah, me too. And I'm glad we do a show like this

because we got to introduce him to another generation. Sure. Whole other audiences, people who knew him from the path, Mark, spots, or may have

known him from Poltergeist, but didn't know everything else that he accomplished. Right. And so it gives us a sense of pride to get to pay tribute to him in a way,

as we did on this show. Which brings me to your podcast and people you got on that show that we didn't get, like Rick Baker and Norman Lloyd. Gilbert's going to kill himself. Oh, God. We want Rick Baker in the worst way. Yes. But it's a great show, Leonard, and a labor of love and a tribute to these people's lives and careers like our show is.

And I have a great partner in crime, which is my daughter, Jessie. Yes. Yes. Who is not only my co-host and a really good one and a lively one, and she brings her point of view from a more youthful place than I reside right now. And she's also become the producer. She's the one who's going through the adventure of trying to book celebrities, which, as you know, can lead to a migraine. We are aware. I wish I had a child to put to work on this show.

I would have done it by now. I would say that she works cheap, but that would be a lie. Well, good for her. I did your show in front of an audience. Oh, yes, down in Austin, Texas. Yep. We had a great time. It's a terrific show.

And a good audience, too. Yeah, I mean, and I can't wait to listen to Werner Herzog. Oh, that's a lot of fun. I can't wait. Malton on movies. Malton on movies. Yes. Wherever better books are sold

or something like that. It was very sweet too when you had Pacino and you and Jesse were complimenting him. You were saying all of these movies, these gifts that you've given us, pieces of time. Yeah. They're pieces of time. Yeah.

They're pieces of time. It was very sweet. And he seemed genuinely touched. Well, he was just a dream. Yeah. And I'd interviewed him a number of times, but like years ago. In fact, I was the only person

who got him and De Niro together on camera when they made Heat. I love that picture. And that was only because I'd interviewed them both before. And, you know, De Niro is the most reluctant television interview there is. But he's not stupid. He's just uncomfortable talking extemporaneously on TV. But he was comfortable with his pal Pacino,

and they felt comfortable with me. And so I got to interview the both of them. And here's the PS. So I have, whatever, 15 minutes to do this in a New York hotel room. And when I'm done, in those days before cell phones took over cameras, I threw my point-and-shoot camera to an intern who was standing nearby.

I said, take a picture. So they were sitting in two straight-back chairs. I stood behind them, and he took one shot. And then I said, take one more. And just as he's about to press down the shutter, De Niro says, cheese. And he cracked us all up. So I have a really rare photo.

Not only do I have a photo with Pacino and De Niro, but we're all laughing. Oh, I want to see that photo. You have to email it to me. I can do that. That's a classic. The podcast is great. I love the Billy Bob Thornton episode.

We'll plug the book. This book, too, from 2010, 151 Best Movies You've Never Seen. The new book is Hooked on Hollywood. I'm going to make Gilbert read that Burgess Meredith interview that he's going to love. Also, no spoilers, but there's some great Errol Flynn stories in that book. He hated a certain group of people who I think we may be familiar with.

And also the website itself, LeonardMalton.com, which has great tributes to people like James Caron and Harlan Ellison

and lots of treasures. I heard they nicknamed him the Great Jew Hater. Oh, I've never heard this, Gilbert. Yes. I'm not saying it's not true, but I've never heard this.

Gilbert's big on who was anti-Semitic in Hollywood. We could do whole episodes about it. But see, I am the opposite. I don't want to know because I don't want it to affect my ability to watch yeah certain old movies yeah yeah and i get that so i take the ignorance is bliss attitude that's not condoning anti-semitism it's just uh as i say ignorance is bliss see that's that's the reason i can't enjoy passion of the christ Christ. Leonard, thanks for doing this and schlepping.

Not a big schlep, but a big reward. Wonderful to be talking to you guys. Thanks, man. Thank you. So let me just wrap it by saying this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. And we've been talking to someone who i when i when i talked when you're on the show i forget we're doing a podcast and i just feel like we're just sitting around talking you ever that's a nice compliment thank you yes you ever in new york much leonard because we

should do one of these in person uh i i'm from new york i'm a native New Yorker. I know, I know you are. But you don't come back much. But I don't get back very often. Too bad, because we could just do six and seven hours of this and the time would just fly by. They could bring in pastrami every now and then.

And some brioche. Yes. Malton on Movies is the podcast. Hooked on Hollywood is the new book. Leonard Malton's classic movie guide, also great. God, how I miss the old ones too leonardmaltin.com

and anything else he's got going on I'm also available on the corner of Selma and Vine Street on alternate Thursdays for book signing and go to Leonard's website read the lovely tribute to James Caron

and go look up the credits of Leslie H. Martinson, because it'll blow your mind. We'll do another one, Leonard, because we didn't get to talk about fake Shemp and fake Stymie. Oh, yes. There's hours more. Hours more. Hours more of this stuff.

Thanks, pal. Thank you, guys. Saturday night at the movies Who cares what picture you see When you're hugging with your baby In the last row of the balcony Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast

is produced by Dara Gottfried and Frank Santapadre with audio production by Frank Verderosa. Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley Seals. Thank you. But they never can compare to the girls sitting by my side Saturday night at the movies Who cares what picture you see When you're hugging with your baby in the less rhythm of her knee Oh, Saturday night at the movies

Who cares what picture you see? When you're hugging with your baby in the last row of the balcony. Saturday night at the movies, who cares what picture you see? When you're hugging with your baby in the last row of the balcony saturday night at the movies who cares what picture you see