Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 247. John Astin

Episode Date: February 18, 2019

Gilbert and Frank are thrilled to (finally!) welcome actor and director John Astin, who looks back on a 60+ year career in films and television, recalls his collaborations with Doris Day, Cary Grant, Rod Serling and Jonathan Winters and reveals the positive impact that "The Addams Family" has had on his life. Also, John meets Groucho Marx, spoofs Hugh Hefner, records an early "rap" single and chews the scenery on "Batman.” PLUS: "Evil Roy Slade"! "I'm Dickens, He's Fenster"! The genius of Nat Perrin! The strange death of Edgar Allan Poe! And John remembers his friends and co-stars Jackie Coogan and Carolyn Jones! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Because at TD Insurance, we understand that your business is unique, so your business insurance should be too. Contact a licensed TD Insurance advisor to learn more. should be too. Contact a licensed TD Insurance advisor to learn more. I'm Larry Charles and you're listening to Gilbert Goffrey's

amazing, colossal podcast. Thank you. Hi, I'm Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and our engineer, Frank Furtarosa. Well, we started this podcast over four years ago, and for at least two of those years, we've been trying to get this next guest on the show. And thanks to the efforts of his two, count them, two talented sons, Sean and Mackenzie, we're thrilled to say he's finally here. Bravo. Bravo.

He's a highly distinguished acting teacher and drama teacher, an Oscar-nominated director of films and television, and one of the most admired and beloved actors of his generation. You've seen him in pretty much everything. The movies West Side Story, That Touch of Mink, Candy, Viva Max, Freaky Friday, Gremlins 2, The New Batch, European Vacation, and The Frighteners. And in dozens of popular TV shows, including The Twilight Zone, Route 66, Batman, The Odd Couple, I'm Dickens, He's Fenster, Night Court, Tales from the Crypt, from the crib, mad about you, and of course, as the lustful and eccentric Gomez Adams on the original version of The Addams Family. He's also voiced roles in animated programs, directed features in well-known series, directed an Academy Award-nominated short,

acted on Broadway, and toured the world in a one-man show about the life of Edgar Allan Poe. He's even shared the small screen with me, Gilbert Gottfried. Please welcome to the podcast one of our favorite performers and a man who says he's still sore from the stunts he did on the Adams family 55 years ago. The legendary and elusive John Ashton. Gilbert, I will take three boxes of those introductions. You came on just like a candy butcher there in the old burlesque shows.

They used to sell stuff when they were changing the scenes backstage at the Gaiety Theater here in Baltimore. Ladies and gentlemen, while they're changing the scenes backstage. That's what he sounded like? Almost like a carnival barker. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I loved it.

I loved it. Now, here's something. He's really here. Pinch me, Gilbert. Yes, I know. You've been one of those from early on. We've been saying we've got to get John Ashton on here. In my office, I have three different lists of guests and his name. John, your name is on top of all three of them.

I was going to take pictures and send them to you. So this is a two-and-a-half-year project. You know, we've called the theater about 12 times. I know. I've been busy. We had Gino Salamone on the job. We sent letters. You're finally here.

Thanks to Sean and Mackenzie. Yeah. Well, yeah, I have three other kids. They could have helped too if you'd known. We were getting close to that. We're glad you're finally here. Now, here's something. When I was a kid watching the Adams family,

I wanted to ask you this. And that's like, in the cartoons, the Charles Addams cartoons, the father looks like Peter Lorre. Yeah, he does. It's interesting. I was a huge fan of Charles Adams before I ever knew there would be a series at all

when I was in college my roommate and I would buy one of those volumes you know like I forget what they called them but Monster Rally or something and we would razor out our favorite cartoons, frame them, and put them on the

wall of the room we shared. And I had no idea that it would eventually become a series. it would eventually become a series. And so when it was to become a series, I was introduced to it in a very strange way. The head of the studio took the desk. It wasn't his office. The meeting was in.

He sat there, though, at the, you know, the head of the studio always sits at the desk, if there is a desk. Is that John Kelly? No, no. Actually, John was Marty Ransom. Oh, Marty Ransom. Yeah, and John was his assistant. I see.

At that time. And he is the person who first came to me. At that time. And he is the person who first came to me. Actually, you're going back there because I was in a movie called The Wheeler Dealers with Jim Garner and Lee Remick. And a lot of people like Phil Harris. Oh, yeah. Everybody's in that one.

Yeah. Jim Backus. Jim Backus, Charlie Watts. Right. Who was the third person of those three guys? Oh, God. I can't remember the name. One of them was Phil Harris, and the other one was Charlie Watts. Charlie Watts.

Right. And who was the third one? Was it Dub Taylor? No. No. It wasn't Dub Taylor. I'll think of it. I just watched it, too.

I'll think of it. I just watched it, too. Anyway, I was in it, and they got a lot of preview cards on me. And so they decided they wanted to do stuff with me. Filmways did and uh so uh john and i uh callie uh we went out to dinner and had a really nice time uh he is a great guy uh and uh uh he had three projects and one of them was the series and uh there were uh two movies that that he had in mind and actually i wanted to do the movies uh but uh uh i hadn't heard that the the uh series was to be about the adams family there was no such thing as the Adams family.

That was the name that David Levy, who created the show, came up with. Because the characters, just to refresh people's memory, the characters in the panel cartoons didn't have names. No. They weren't called Gomez or Morticia or Adams even. That came later. No. Adam's even, that came later. No, I'm shaking my head thinking that because I can see you on our FaceTime, that the listeners can see me.

No, audio only. I'm nodding. Also, that's interesting too, John, the other two projects they talked to you about in that meeting were The Loved One. How did you know? And The Americanization of Emily. How did you know that? Oh, I do some deep research, my friend.

Wow. Where was that? Because Arthur Hiller was involved. I'd forgotten that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, Arthur. Arthur.

Yes. forgotten that yeah yeah yeah no uh arthur arthur uh yes arthur was involved because uh uh he had uh i had done another pilot film and series uh before that uh called i'm dickens he's fenster sure and uh uh arthur uh directed the pilot film and the first two or three episodes. Mm-hmm. And so, you know, it never occurred to me until now that Arthur may have recommended me for that show. Could be. Didn't he direct the Addams Family presentation, Arthur Hiller? Yeah, yeah, he did. Yeah, yeah.

There you go. But I thought it was this, well, when Marty described the show to me, Marty Ranthoff, he said, first place, he said the very unlikely thing that it would be a non-exclusive deal, you know, first network series ever to be non-exclusive. ever to be non-exclusive. And I would get a lot of money and top billing and there was something else. Oh, yeah.

I was going to play Lurch. Oh, yes. I was going to play the butler. And so I started thinking of you know imagining myself wearing lifts and and uh uh you know how I would stand as as the butler and how could was seated in a comfortable, uh, chair, except for one guy who was on a straight back, uh, wooden chair in the middle of the room, the most awkward position a guy could have. And I, uh, he said something and I said, what's your name and what have you done?

And he said, well, my name is David Levy and I was vice president of Young and Rubicam for 20 years and then I was vice president of NBC in charge of programming. Oh, okay. I said, that's pretty good. And fortunately, he chuckled. It turned out he was a lifelong friend. We became close friends.

But after the meeting, I went away thinking, this will never happen. away thinking this will never happen. And, uh, uh, I, I got a, I got a phone call almost as soon as I got home from David Levy. And he said, uh, what you heard at the meeting is it's not really my idea for this show. And, uh, I'd like to meet with you as soon as possible. I said, what about right now? He said, that's good. Meet me at the Polo Lounge at the Beverly Hills Hotel. Nice. And I love their martinis.

And so I met with David. And he said, I don't want you to do The Butler. He said, this show is really father knows best, but with different people. And I want you to be the father. And that sounded great to me. And we started exchanging ideas. And the result was a presentation film.

And following that, a crazy couple of years on the air. That changed your life. It did. Yeah. I was asked to be one of the people doing eulogy for Charles Adams when he passed away. They had a wonderful gathering at the New York Public Library. And I said that Charles Adams and I shared something, this notoriety and association that neither of us had ever expected.

That, you know, whenever I appeared outside the house, I would hear snaps, finger snaps behind me and people going, ba-ba-ba-bum. Vic Mizzi. Yeah, and he was a friend of David's. That's how he came to write that wonderful tune. What I didn't know at the time is that he had a lot of standards

to his credit. Big Mizzy, yeah. He had a big career. Yeah. And, you know, the Addams Family theme was just one of them, but that outdistanced everything

he ever did. Well, they're still playing it in ballparks. Yeah. To rally the team. They're creepy and they're spooky. They're still playing it in ballparks. Yeah. To rally the team. They're creepy and they're spooky. They're old again, they're kooky. The house is a museum.

That's it. You really ought to see. Now, what I wanted to ask you. Those aren't quite the lyrics. He's in the ballpark. Yeah. You're in the ballpark. What I wanted to ask you is when I would watch you

and the way you delivered the lines and the faces you made and the way you held your cigar, I remember thinking, this guy must be a Groucho Marx fan. Yeah, it's funny. I remember I said to Nat Perrin one day, I said, Nat, there are people who compare me to Groucho Marx and some to Peter Sellers and some to Ernie Kovacs. Ernie Kovacs, yeah.

I said, what do you do about something like that? And he said, my boy, they're all good. Don't knock it. Good advice. But the funny thing is I never thought about Groucho when I was working on Gomez. Never occurred to me. But when I think back as a kid, I dressed up on Halloween as Groucho Marx. Wow.

Oh, man. And my brother dressed as Harpo, and a kid named Donnie Hall up the block, he was Chico. And the three of us went to school. The Marx Brothers. Wow. And this was in the 30s, you know, when they were very, very, had a great vogue in the 30s.

We should point out, too, just make clear to our listeners, too, that there's a connection there. We were talking before we turned the mics on because one of the showrunners or the head writer on the Addams Family was the legendary Nat Perrin who had written for the Marx's yeah, actually that's how he came to Hollywood they brought him out to Hollywood

to write for them and he you know, he was one of their favorite people. I know whenever there was a tiff among the brothers, they would go to Nat to adjudicate

the whole thing. I didn't realize that. He was a very reasonable guy and a very wise man. He was not the head writer. He was a very reasonable guy and a very wise man. He was not the head writer. He was the producer of the show. And while his hand was in every script, he rarely took credit for it. But so many of the funny things came from that.

He was critical to the show, even though he was not part of most of the first show, which was the demonstration film. And I think it was about 20 minutes long. What did I ask you about, too, about something? That was written, I should say, that was written by Ed James and Seaman Jacobs. Oh, Seaman Jacobs, yeah.

Yeah, or Cy, as we used to call him. And they had done some very good work on it, you know, before Nat arrived. And did you ever meet the great groucho i uh the director of the show a guy named sydney landfield uh uh took me to um uh what's the name what's the name of the country club? Oh, it was Hillcrest. Hillcrest, yeah, yeah. He took me to Hillcrest one day, and I looked up,

and I found Groucho staring at me. And I was perplexed by that, but pleased. But I don't remember whether I smiled at him or not. He never smiled at me, though. And so I wondered, I asked Nat, was that some possible criticism coming from Groucho? And he said, no, no, no. He's a very kind man. What about something Gilbert alluded to in the intro?

And I've seen this in interviews with you, John, and that was the physicality of the character, that you would get in the lotus position, you would hang upside down. Yeah. Difficult on the body. Well, that began on I'm Dickens' Fenster, actually. Oh, yeah, you guys did a lot of pratfalls.

I did a lot of pratfalls. I had the feed lines and the pratfalls. And, you know, Marty had the jokes. And if I went out a window, there was a close-up on him observing it. So it started there. And an empty window. I'm just kidding a little bit. But it was tough.

I'm just kidding a little bit, but it was tough. When they found out, because in the theater, I had done a lot of that stuff, and it just came naturally to me. And I had no training in it. Oh, maybe a little. I guess there was a little training and how to fall and all that stuff, but it doesn't do you any good. I mean, you get hurt anyway.

But until I encountered the Hollywood stuntmen, and you see, this was a multiple camera show and it had a lot of physical gags in it. And I was always grateful when more people were in the show because I knew they were stunt people who had come in to do gags like that. It was a multiple camera show and you needed the cement floor

for the cameras. But, you know, when you fall on cement, it doesn't go anywhere. Except into your body. When you watch The Addams Family today, that's something that you notice

right away as you're doing rolls from a headstand, and you're doing flips, and you're doing yoga moves, and all kinds of, and hanging by your feet, and trapeze moves. Well, I've been fortunate enough to have flexible limbs. The first time I did the headstanding thing, they wired me up on it and I didn't like that. And I, I, there was a guy, uh, who did stunts for me all the time. A guy named Chuck couch. He did stunts for many people in the movies. He was a former acrobat, and he had done all kinds of great stuff. And he said, do you want to stand on your head? I said, yeah. And he said, okay, here's how you do it.

And so the next time I had a headstanding thing, I went up on my head. And when I did personal appearances, people would say, hey, stand on your head. Like a fool, I would do it. Oh, man. Wherever it was. Please your fans.

And what the critics all pointed out with the Addams Family, that was the first sitcom where the man and woman were actually having sex. Or implied. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, we didn't have it on camera. We kept that to ourselves. Well, it was clear that they had the hots for each other, which was relatively new to television at that time.

Yeah. Yeah. And it was, I got to say this for Carolyn, we never really talked about it, but it turned out that we were both attracted. Each of us was attracted by the other. And so it was very easy to do those scenes. I mean, I found her ravishing and wonderful, you know,

but, and we kept it strictly professional. We didn't play Gomez and Morticia off camera. As much as you wanted to. Beautiful's right beautiful woman and uh we had a a very serious talk before she passed away and in the course of this conversation uh she uh we acknowledged how we each of us felt about the other and that we restrained ourselves uh from consummating it uh because we wanted uh we wanted to stay professional number one number two we wanted to keep that passion uh inside so it could come out in the work. Wow.

And without talking to one another about it, we both decided to do the same thing. And I didn't know it until about a week before she passed on. And it's funny that... We were, by the way, friends for life. Yeah. You delivered the eulogy at her service, right, John? Yep. Yeah.

Yeah, I did. Wonderful talent. It's funny to think that back then there was no sex in sitcoms. And then it became a thing, like it was almost like a rule that you had the couple always ready to run up the stairs to the imaginary bedroom yeah well i think i think we started it i i used to do a joke commercial uh for the show uh in which I said, my wife Morticia and I are the only well-adjusted couple on television. And after that, you're right.

I think everyone wanted to put the stork out of business. Yeah. You always saw it as one of the most well-adjusted family, as a family of people who loved life and weren't afraid to show it. You found the show life-affirming. Yeah. Actually, that's what I found in Charlie's cartoons. Wow.

See, when we were talking about doing this show so i i i started thinking about the cartoons i'm trying to figure out what they were what they were all about uh because you have you have uh let's say, the Morticia character going to a neighbor's house and saying, may I borrow a cup of cyanide? character driving his car up a two-lane hill and seeing a semi barreling downhill is waving on the driver in back of him. And, you know, do we see the crash? Do we see what Morticia does with the cyanide? In that wonderful cartoon in which the family is on the roof and Christmas carols. Oh, yeah.

And they've got molten something or other. And do they pour it? And do we watch the carolers writhe in pain? No. Uh, all the violence in the cartoons, he never really carried out the violence in the car. I mean,

you could say, uh, I know there's, there's one that really struck me. There's a... a couple living in a house in the jungle. And there's a giant snake with a lump inside of it and

there's a woman sitting on the porch saying oh dear stop grumbling something like that and that's the closest I can recall Charles Adams coming to

an actual violent ending to something although we don't know, maybe the guy lives and Uncle Fester played by Jackie Coogan and there's actually for people who don't know this, a law on the books called the Coogan Law. Oh, sure. Because he was a child actor, made a fortune, and his parents didn't leave him with a dime.

Worked with Chaplin. Yes, the kid. Yeah, the kid. That's not exactly how it worked jack and his mother were separated i'm jack and uh uh his mother and uh his father were separated and jack spent all his time with his dad there was a terrible car accident just before Jack was 21, and his father was killed in the accident. So his mother gained control over all of the millions that Jack had earned. And she gave him some of it, but not that much.

And there was a big to-do about it. And they passed that law to ensure that kids got their fair amount. And the parents are allowed to deduct a certain amount of uh money but uh uh so that's the origin of coogan's law interesting yeah he he was so funny on that show john you both were what was he was he something of a character in real life jackie coogan one of the most interesting people i ever worked with uh uh And we traveled together a number of times. That's another eulogy I did. As a matter of fact,

Jack was so much fun to work with. Everybody on the show was. We love Ted Cassidy, too. Gilbert and I are fans. Yeah, he and I were close friends. Coogan always reminded me when I listened to him of

Curly from the Three Stooges. Had a little bit of that quality. Yeah, except broad as Jack may have been, all of his stuff had a basis in reality. You know,

he was a very good actor. Yeah. And, and, uh, he did, he did, uh,

he did a lot of great stuff. A good child actor. I mean, if you see the kid, he tears your heart out. Oh, go back and watch it. It's fantastic. I want, I've fantastic i want i've seen it i've seen

it many times yeah actually yeah the uh but you know after this analysis of the cartoons i am saying what is he doing and i came to the conclusion that Charles Adams was trying to wake us up to the wonder of life. Uh-huh. And, you know, look at this magnificent spider. Yeah. I mean, the spider is fascinating. It's, you know, it's exciting if it doesn't bite you. You know, that,

and the same with a snake. Threatening things are interesting. Oh, yeah, those cartoons are dark, but there's glee and joy in them. Yeah.

They're very joyful. And he influenced many cartoons. That's right. Gomez was there to appreciate the wonder of life. It's exciting. And I heard that Pugsley didn't have a... I heard it was kind of rough on him.

Oh, Ken Weatherwax. Yeah. It was. He got kidded a lot about being Pugsley. And you know, that's got to be tough on a kid

to be playing somebody they want to make fun of. And I heard it even went into his adult years. They would know he was Pugsley and start mocking him. Well, he kind of got a kick out of it after a while. He did? Yeah, because we did a few appearances in which, you know,

Ken would talk about the show with fans and so on. I'm glad he got some enjoyment out of it. Hello, this is Harvey Lachette, and we will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing collage podcast right after this. This ad was expressly recorded to create a sense of simplicity. Just a few simple sounds. No complexity. Like Neutral. Made with just vodka, soda, and natural flavor. Neutral.

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So let's go. You know, it's funny. Tell our fans to watch the movie The Wheeler Dealers because that's the beginning of Gomez. Yeah. Because that character that you played, that crazy regulator in that movie, I'm forgetting his name, but he was the over-eager. He was so eager to get a conviction. Yeah.

And it's a very manic part. And by the way, that and that touch of mink, you were very good at playing sleazy characters, John. Yes. The Beasley character in that touch of mink, which I also just watched again. Both that character and the character

in The Wheeler Dealer are real sleazoids. They are that. And interesting that they saw something that made them think of you for Gomez. Yeah. To be named later Gomez. I thought that the romance between Morticia and Gomez should be in the grand style

and filled with great passion and love with these unusual people. And of course, that became a feature of the show because Nat picked up on it. And, uh, uh, one nice thing about doing that show was that if you had an idea,

uh, uh, you could go to them and, uh, there was no ego trip on that's part. You know, he was ready to grab anything that worked, as was David.

Oh, that's great. And so I remember, I wrote a little bit to put into one of the shows, and I had actually, Ted was looking out the peephole, I guess, in the door, if there was one, or a crack in the door, at who was outside. I don't remember who it was.

But he made that moan, that groan, you know, kind of, uh, you know. It was like a growl almost. And in that marvelous voice of his. And I said to the director, could we get a close-up of that, you know, when he does that? And then I wrote a little bit where we were going to go into politics and Lurch would appeal to the women. I remember. And we cut to Lurch,

and he goes, I broke myself up. But that's... So they were accepting. It was that kind of set. Yeah, Ted was wonderful as an actor. He really wanted to play Hamlet. Amazing.

Would have been a very interesting Hamlet. Very interesting. Todd Young, the poor thing. You have a lot of your career is owed to Tony Randall. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I had the good fortune to be in, ostensibly to cover Eli Wallach, but Burgess Meredith had to, this was a play by Shaw called Major Barbara,

and Lawton, Charles Lawton did a production of it on Broadway and the character of Bill Walker was played by Eli and they wanted somebody to cover him and I ended up

covering lots of people in the show and when Burgess had and I ended up covering lots of people in the show. And when Burgess had to, he was one of the producers of Dial M for Murder, and when it was opening, his services were required, and so he had to leave the play for about, I don't know, it was something like eight or ten performances,

something like that. And so, excuse me, Richard Lupino was his understudy, and I covered Dick in the part of Charles Lomax. And so when I went on as Lomax, I had a very good experience with it. Lawton directed it and gave me an idea for the character. Uh-huh. That really worked. And I had a good British accent.

And so it scored and I had lots of, got lots of agents to come and see it. However, no one wanted to sign me, but that's the way it goes. But you were on Broadway. me but uh that's the way it goes but you were on broadway yeah i uh but many people in show business saw that play and one of them was tony randall and uh so four years later, when I came in to read for a summer package that Tony was doing, Tony looked at me and says, I know you. You know, that way he did.

Very excitable. Yeah. And I knew then I had the part, you know, because he paid me a lot of compliments on the role. he paid me a lot of compliments on the role. And so we hit it off, and we had a great time in this play. And let me get a little sip of water. Sure, go ahead. It's good stuff.

it's good stuff I was waiting for you to do a Gleason take where you used to go, ah, it pays to buy the best so we had all kinds of fun doing that, and I, Tony and Patricia Barry, who was also in the play, encouraged me to come to California. Well, I guess we were in Chicago at that point,

and I ended up going directly to California, and Patricia and Phil, her husband, put me up for quite a few weeks until I got settled and found a place and brought the rest of the family out to California. And I should have, Tony made many overtures to me to do stuff with him. stuff with him.

And even, I know when I did HMS Pinafore in New York, Tony called me up and he said, John, write down five plays you like, and I'll put one of them on with you in it. I mean, and why I didn't follow up on it, I don't know, but... Interesting. I know, had I been wise, I would have...

And that was not the only overture that he made to me over the years. The only one I took him up on was they said they needed somebody on the, was it the Odd Couple? Oh, where you play the Hugh Hefner character. Oh, no, whoa. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Buff Buffington.

Buffy. Buffy. B Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Buff Buffington. Buffy. Buffy. Buffy, they call him. Yes. I always remember that as the episode without a laugh track. Correct. Yes. Very good, Gilbert.

Yes. You get an A. Every now and then I pay attention. Yeah. They were trying to show, the show didn't get good ratings originally or didn't get enough of an audience for them or something. And they wanted to show that the show

could be funny without a laugh track. They were both trying to get them not to use a laugh track, I think. And that was the show. And they stayed on the air. You were very funny in that part. It was funny. You decided, I guess, to play it as a loony character. Did I? I don't

remember. Have Mac fire it up and show it to you. Maybe I was just loony. You played him as a real eccentric. And now that we're talking about Tony Randall, I'm picturing John in the Oscar role. I'm wondering what you would have done with that.

Wow. Who knows? Yeah. But I done with that. Wow. Who knows? Yeah. But I could see you doing it. Who knows? Yeah. I can too. A little trivia, by the way, about that Major Barber cast,

and this is just for our listeners, that three of those actors, Eli Wallach, Burgess Meredith, and yourself, what did they all have in common? They all played villains on the Batman series. All three of you went on to do that series, which is a little fun piece of trivia. Did you face any opposition from fans

when you took over the role of the Riddler? Well, I just did it for two one-hour shows. So I never had a chance to assess the reaction to it. I had a ball. I loved doing that show. It was a whole lot of fun.

You could show the scenery. Yeah. I had always wanted to run around in my underwear and so it uh you know it's uh uh i'm happy they gave me that opportunity. I want to ask you, too, about being a young actor, John. Was your first screen appearance in the Studio One production, was it live television? The Night America Trimbled? No, that was not my first.

Okay. My first appearance was on a Robert Montgomery Presents. I didn't even find that in the research. Wow. No. Well, I was an extra. I see. But in those days, you had to get a SAG card, or an after card, rather,

after card to be an extra in New York. Not in Hollywood, but in New York. And so that was my first professional union, actually. And I got it, I got it from an association that I formed where we're broadcasting, where I'm broadcasting from now, Johns Hopkins University. Oh, tell us what that connection is.

Where I work. Yeah. I run the theater department here and I'm very busy. That's why you didn't hear from me. We know.

We didn't give up, though. I made students my first priority. Yeah, of course. Good for you. I realized that taxes come before that. So Tony's agent, was that Abby Greshler? Yeah. I realize that taxes come before that. So Tony's agent, was that Abby Greshler? Yeah. By the way, that's how Murray the Cop got his last name.

Oh, wow. Murray Greshler. It was an homage to, I believe he also handled Neil Simon or I could be, or Klugman. He handled Tony. He handled Tony. Yeah. Or Klugman. He handled Tony. He handled Tony. Yeah. And you started working. I mean, going through your IMDb credits, which is fun to do,

and I found that the night America trembled with you and very young Warren Beatty and Vincent Gardenia and Ed Asner. Yeah, that was done in New York. Yeah, yeah. Norman Rose, the voice of God, was on that one, Gilbert. I once did a voiceover somewhere. How about that? And Norman Rose was there, and he was unbelievable to watch.

And these are fun. I'm going through these, John. And you did Maverick. That was my first show in Hollywood. Oh, with your pal James Garner. No, it was Roger Moore who was the Maverick that week. Oh, wow. A rare moment.

James Bond as Maverick. Yes, I remember. Frank and I are trying to figure out, did you ever meet Rod Serling? Oh, yeah. I directed a number of shows that Rod wrote. Oh, Night Gallery. Yeah. And we were on game shows at the same time.

I think that's how I met him, in fact. But I thought a great deal of Rod. He changed television. Sure did. And through his diligence and talent well you're in that twilight zone episode with cliff robertson yeah you certainly must remember doing that one i do 100 yards over the rim i didn't meet rod at that time okay uh but uh while I was doing that show in Lone Pine, California, uh, that's where I heard that, uh, I'm Dickens.

He's Fenster was going to be on the air. Love it. And tell us about I'm Dickens. He's Fenster. And a guy I love reading about is the creator of that show. Leonard Stern? The great Leonard Stern who also created

Get Smart. And he tells a funny story too about pitching I'm Dickens, he's Fenster, which we won't go into here, but it's on a YouTube interview with Leonard. Oh yeah? Yeah, where he went in and basically just, he just winged it and he never actually wound up telling them the

premise of the show. He was just trying to make them laugh for half an hour, but they bought it. And you and Marty were a fun tandem. We, uh, actually, uh, we were invited

to a, uh, one of those cabins at the Beverly Hills Hotel and talked into doing an improvisation talked into doing an improvisation for a couple of other people in the room. We didn't realize that it was the network president and vice president in charge of programming. And that's how the show got sold. Or the casting of the show got sold. Right, right, right. Yeah.

Yeah. By the way, Leonard Stern, an interesting guy who also invented Mad Libs, Gilbert. Oh, wow. Did you know that? And Mel Tolkien, the great Mel Tolkien was on that show, was he not? On the Dickinson Fester. Yeah, from Sid Caesar.

Mel was the head writer. Yeah. I learned a tremendous amount from Mel. He was a theorist about comedy. about comedy. And actually, there are things that I learned from Mel that I use when I'm teaching about what makes a good play and so on. Oh, that's great.

The source of humor. Mel maintained that all humor involves an immigrant. Oh, I've heard you talk about this. This is the shattering of the context. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. When did you hear that?

Oh, I do lots and lots of research, John. You must be in the stacks all the time. I'm an idiot savant, you see. I don't know about the savant part. But I can vouch for it. We're doing I'm Santo Padre, he's Gottfried. And you toured the country as Edgar Allan Poe. Yeah. He went to Australia. He went fartherred the country as Edgar Allan Poe. Yeah.

He went to Australia. He went farther than the country. Australia and Ireland. Yeah. We went both places. Yeah. Now, here's what I want to know, because I hear varying stories. How did Edgar Allan Poe die?

We don't really know I mean he was found near death in a a pub or an inn or a pub and taken to the hospital

and he lived about four days or so. But he disappeared for a number of days. He was on his way to Baltimore. He got on a steamer in Richmond, and nobody knows what happened. There are lots of theories extant and there's some very interesting theories

but some people think that he was accosted, and he probably had an allergy to alcohol. He couldn't handle a lot of it. And he was actually an abstainer until things got bad. and he had so much tragedy in his life lots of it and he would go for a drink and uh uh even if it's just wine uh uh it would send him off on a toot And so it was, in a way, his enemy in life. And they think maybe, I mean, one of the theories is that he was in one of these coups that they kept people in, alcoholics generally, and send them out to vote,

and then send them to another precinct to vote, and so forth, on election day. There was an election around the time he died. Then there are people who theorize that he was pursued by the sons of the woman he was going to marry and done in by them. Oh, interesting. And what were some of the tragedies in his life? Well, generally, any woman that he loved seemed to be doomed. His mother died in her early 20s.

The mother of a friend who was the first person to encourage his writing she died young his own wife Virginia died at 24 and and yeah and his stepmother, of whom he was very fond, she died young. And in spite of a tragic life, and most people I would consider Poe's work to be, or what they know of Poe the person, to be morose, you've tried to find the joyfulness and the wit in his work. It was there. Or you tried to bring it out, I should say. Yeah, yeah. And there was plenty of humor to put in the show.

We didn't have any problem with that. He did so many, He invented the detective story. We know that. He was also the first journalistic critic. And he wrote some reviews that held a certain amount of humor, although it may not have been in favor of the work he was reviewing. But he was very creative in that way. Did you enjoy that? I will direct our listeners, by the way, too,

to a, there's a YouTube performance of you performing or reading The Raven. It's online. Oh, is that? It's online. Is that the one,

that's the one I did for, was that, did that come from CBS or did that come from Maryland Public Television? I can't tell. I watched it last night. Forgive me. Because I did, I did The Raven for Maryland Public Television? I can't tell. I watched it last night. Forgive me.

Because I did The Raven for Maryland Public Television. And there are parts of The Raven that I did for a Sunday morning show, for the show called Sunday Morning on CBS. I heard you say the show was big in Australia, in part because they love the Addams Family so much. You were playing at big houses there. Yeah, yeah. We sold out most of the time.

That's great. And now I'm going to totally put you on the spot and feel free to say no. Can you do a tiny portion of the Raven for us? Well, what about the copyright? He's too smart for you, Gil. He's too smart for you, Gil. That's, I forget how it goes.

Yeah. Something like. Once upon a midnight dreary. Okay, I got it. Once upon a midnight dreary. While I pondered weak and weary over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore, while I nodded nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping

as of someone gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door. "'Tis some visitor,' I muttered, tapping at my chamber door, only this and nothing more. Ah, distinctly I remember it was in the bleak December and each separate dying ember wrought its ghost upon the floor.

Then it goes on. Wonderful. Wow. What a treat. Another few minutes. Wow, that was terrific. It's a very long poem. Yes, beautifully done.

John, here's... Well, it's not just... It's not the only thing he wrote. I mean, there's a canon of extraordinary. Oh, I love the stories as a boy. The Cask of a Montalado and Telltale Heart. Yeah. Grow up on that stuff. I'd watch all these, you know, different movies

that had names of Edgar Allen Poe. Oh, all those Corman pictures. But none of them had anything to do with the stories. They're loosely based. Yeah, yeah. Fall of the House of Usher. They were very frustrating. For a Poe purist like yourself.

I first came upon Poe when my mother suggested I read the Purloined Letter. Oh. And I was no more than 11 years old. Maybe less. I don't know. But I have a clear memory of that because when I was 12, we moved to another residence. when I was 12 we moved to another residence and the effect of reading it was so strong that I looked up

at the room I was in which was in that little old house and I was stunned by the denouement of that show, of that story. And I examined the room I was in very carefully to see if there was a place where the purloined letter could be hidden. Wow.

It was really exciting. And you were hooked for life. Yep, I was. be hidden wow it was uh really and you were hooked for life yep i was we will return to gilbert gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this that's the sound of fried chicken with a spicy history thornton Prince was a ladies' man. To get revenge, his girlfriend hid spices in his fried chicken. He loved it so much, he opened Prince's Hot Chicken. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+. In Season 3, Carmi and his crew are aiming for the ultimate restaurant accolade,

a Michelin star. With Golden Globe and Emmy wins, the show starring Jeremy Allen White, Io Debrey, and Maddie Matheson is ready to heat up screens once again. All new episodes of FX's The Bear are streaming June 27, only on Disney+. I just want to go back. We jump around here, John, and I just want to say one more thing about I'm Dickens, He's Fenster that I found in

my research, and you might know this, you might not. I read that Stan Laurel was a fan of the show. And Laurel was a fan of the show. I didn't know that. Had you heard that? I may have, yeah. I may have. That show got the same phrase was used by two national magazines, Two national magazines, like Time and something else, they said the best new show in years. I remember there was a critic in Canada who said they may be canceling the best show ever on television.

Wow. Wow. That's what they said. About that. And Stan Laurel, that's praise from Caesar. And, you know, Mel, Mel was, he and Don Hinckley did most of the writing.

Mel Tolkien. But then Leonard, you know, rewrote everything. But a foundation was provided by Mel and Don. Smart guys. Yeah, they were wonderful you know mel is the guy who collected all those fantastic writers for that show of shows he was a head writer on that show and there was mel brooks and uh uh doc simon sure and danny simon yeah larry gelbart larry gelbart, Shelly Keller, Woody Allen. Yeah. You know, tremendous. You know, something I find in the research of your career that comes up is, and it's funny you say that, how many great comedy writers you worked with over the course of your career? And I would add Marshall and Belson and Evil Roy Slade. Oh, definitely. They were. Which you are so much fun in. I loved doing that. A man so tough he pinned on his own diaper.

And you worked with Mickey Rooney in that. Oh, everybody. Uncle Miltie's in it. Yeah. Yeah. He was, both of those guys were great in that show. They, Nelson Stuhl with the stubby index finger. Oh, sure.

By the way, the third guy you were searching for in the Wheeler Dealers is Chill Wills. Oh, it was Chill Wills. Just popped into my head. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. What about Viva Max?

What about working with Jonathan Winters and your friend Peter Ustinov? Well. Another film you're a lot of fun in. Yeah. Well, you know, I was doing a play in Los Angeles called Rattle of a Simple Man. And after a matinee performance, my hero, Jonathan Winters, came into dressing room.

I said, you know, hi, I'm John Winters came in the dressing room. I said, you know, hi, I'm John Winters. And I said, yeah, I know. And he said, I like what you did out there on the stage. He said, and he said, you made me, I know you've done it before, but it didn't seem that way.

It seemed as though you were doing it for the first time. And he said, I can't repeat stuff he says so i want to become your friend so you can teach me how to do that wow and i said well you know i had said before if there's anyone on earth ready for canonization, it's Jonathan Rubin. And I repeated that. I told him, that's how I feel about you.

So immediately, I'll be your best friend. immediately i'll be your best friend and so we uh we had some good times together but it was somehow very difficult uh to get john to do what had to be done to repeat something. Interesting. Because his style came from his desire to communicate. That's why he'd go into these characters, because they exemplified what he was trying to say. exemplified what he was trying to say. And I took...

I came up with an idea for a show, which I should have pushed a little more than I did, which would set him off on an improvisation each week. And, you know, he'd just let them fly and see what happens. You couldn't lose doing that. I'm sure. And he, but one time we wrote something together. And it was one glorious afternoon. and it was one glorious afternoon, and it was really 98% John,

and I was just the stimulus to it, and he said, let me work on this a while, and he said, I'll call you up. So two weeks later, he calls me up, and he says, I got call you up. So two weeks later, he calls me up and he says, I got it. I got it. And everything was great. And he had this terrific young guy in it and a great part for him.

I said, John, where's your part? He said, oh, well, there's not that much to it now, but it's still there. But he had completely changed it. Wow. Away from himself. But, you know, he, I would take great delight in just starting him on something. I just watch him go. You watch him go.

Yeah. And, you know, when he needed a little stimulus, throw it in. You know, sort of what Carl Reiner did for Mel Brooks on the 2,000-year-old man. Sure. Do you look back, John, sometimes? And I know you're very busy and you're very much in the moment with what you have in front of you. Do you ever look back and say, my God, I worked with all of these people and these larger-than-life characters?

I mean, Peter Ustinov and Jonathan Winters, and you worked with Phyllis Diller, and you worked with Betty Davis, for God's sake, and Orson Welles, and Mickey Rooney we talked about. I mean, pinch me moments. You know, I once wrote down the names of all the people I'd worked with. Uh-huh.

And just put a comma after each name. And it was single space typing. Wow. And I filled up a page with a single space, you know, with, uh, with all these names.

And so, uh, one of my students, I, I, I was, uh, working with one of my students, I was working with one of my students.

She said, John, did you ever work with any big names? Ringo Starr. And I didn't think about Ringo at that moment. But I said, well, what about Cary Grant? There you go. And they didn't know who Cary Grant was. Oh. And I started naming people, and they didn't know any of them.

And then I said, what? Then I said, I played Jodie Foster's father one time. And they said, you worked with Jodie Foster? Whoa. Freaky Friday. Freaky Friday, yeah. Freaky Friday. Yeah.

And so I've got to have younger people on the tips of my tongue. Well, I saw you interviewed at a convention, and you were talking about the Addams Family. You were on a panel with Felix Silla and I think Lisa. And somebody mentioned Bob Hope, and you went around the room and you said, come on, none of these people know who Bob Hope is. And you said, show of hands, this is something that comes up on our podcast a lot. You said, how many of these people know who Bob Hope is? And it's one of the reasons we do this show is to keep these names alive, is to keep this history alive.

We consider it very important. I think one time dustin hoffman was speaking somewhere and before the lecture started he said okay does anyone here know what the graduate was and no one could answer stunning wow stunning. And that seems, to me, relatively recent. I'd like to see that piece of paper. The names in candy alone that you work with, Ringo and Walter Matthau and Brando and Richard Burton, and I was saying Betty Davis, Ernest Borgnine, Lottie Lenya, B. Arthur, Burgess Meredith, Eli Wallach, the list, Charles Adams himself. I mean, the list goes on and on.

And a favorite of ours, Jack Warden. Jack Warden you worked with. Oh, yeah. I spent a lot of time with Burgess because I assisted him on developing Ulysses in Nighttown. And in fact, Zero Mostel was in the show. There's another one. Because my first wife, Susie, and I had gone to a backers audition. I can drop a couple more here. Please do.

I can drop a couple more here. Please do. Well, we lived on the fifth floor of a walk-up that looked out over 10th Avenue and beyond the Hudson and finally Jersey. And we had gotten the apartment next to us for Jerry Orbach. Jerry and I were working together at the time. And his roommate, Joe Goldberg, excuse me, Joe had written a play. And they were raising money for the play.

They had a backers audition. And, you know, we knew Joe and wanted to support it. So we went to the backers audition. Uh-huh. And, excuse me. Okay. If I get rid of that, my voice will turn young. Anyway,

anyway, we're watching this backers audition and there's zero reading for five bucks doing a backers audition. I mean, he was on the blacklist at that time and so forth. And,

uh, uh, we looked at each other and he said, my gosh, that's Leopold Bloom. He'd be fantastic in that part. And I tried to, I called Burgess right away and he said, yeah, that's great, that's great,

the way he would, you know. And then I remember taking scripts to hugh griffith and franchotone and uh i even uh he even called johnny's agent and tried to offer it to him jonathan winners yeah yeah and uh but uh john Johnny never saw it, I guess. The agent decided against it. But I remember Milt Kamen was offered. Milt Kamen. Remember him, Gilbert?

Oh, yeah. Sure. Remember him? Yeah, sure. And lots of people. And finally, we had found someone, Sorrel Book. Oh, we talk about him. We, Sorrel Book. Oh, we talk about him. We like Sorrel Book.

Yes. He's a very talented guy. By Breverman, and he was Boss Hogg. Yeah, he was Boss Hogg on the Dukes of Hazzard. Yeah, I mean, that, I would say, ruined his career. Oh, it's too bad. He made a lot of money, but he's a far better actor than this show allowed him to present.

And Sorrell was cast almost as Bloom. We didn't have enough money, and I found some backers and brought them in, and they said, we want to see who you have for Bloom and so Sorrell came in and read again but he had a bad reading

and so they passed on him and finally I said what about Zero Mostel and there was talk about the what about Zero Mostel? And there was talk about the blacklist and the hell with the blacklist. And I had already gotten a script to Zero.

He'd had it for some time. So he was already, a couple of people went up and the money people went up and, you know, the money people went up and listened to him and went uptown to his place. And then they called me up and said, make the deal. And so I called his agent and explained to her what was going on. She had no idea about it. And so we made the deal and it changed his career. He was brilliant in it. And a few years later, I'm doing a show with Sam Jaffe. There you go.

It's another name. Yeah. And Sam was a close friend of Zero's and he'd been back East. We were in California and he'd been back East and Zero's agent was suing him because Ulysses had changed his career, and she wanted a piece of it.

I see. And I said, no, actually, the case got thrown out, but I said, I never told Zero that he wasn't first choice. I didn't want to say that to him. Right, right. And so I said, if it's necessary, Sam, tell him that I can testify that that never happened. And so he never had to tell him. Wow.

So Zero always thought he was first choice. That's nice that you never let on. He should have been. He should have been. There was no one who could have done that part the way he did. I hope you're writing a book, John, or you plan to put some of these things down beyond the list of names.

Who knows? I mean, what a journey. It is. It is a journey. It's a delightful journey, actually. I've enjoyed all these people. You even worked with Jerry Lewis. I did.

In the original Evil Roy Slade incarnation. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody. Uncle Miltie, Henry Gibson, Mickey Rooney. We were going, and Gilbert and I love character actors on this show. We've seen names like Pat Harrington and Louis Nye and Joey Foreman.

And all of these wonderful people. John Fiedler, Joey Fay, Gig Young, you know, everybody. Did you ever see Joey Fay and Jack Albertson do their burlesque sketches? No.

Oh, would I love to see that. Joey Fay was half of that sitcom team. Mack and Meyer for hire on TV in the 60s, but never saw him team with Jack Albertson. They did Flugel Street. They did Niagara Falls. Oh, man.

That must have been amazing. All that stuff. And then for a third guy, they used a little fella named bobby ball i don't know him you don't know him you stumped us yeah you know i'll tell you who knows bobby ball is ed asner oh okay we okay. We'll ask Ed. Yeah, Ed. He's a funny... He was so goddamn funny. Forgive the expression. No, that's okay.

That's okay. Before we get you out of here, you and Gilbert did a show. You both did, well, a show you were on many times. Night Court. Yes. Oh, my. Playing Harry Anderson's mental patient father. Harry, yeah.

We just lost Harry this year. Yeah. Sadly. Too bad. You really sank your teeth into that part. I did. I loved it.

I'd love to do a show based on a character like that. The same gestalt that Buddy Ryan had. Buddy Ryan. Who did you play Gilbert on Night Court? I was like a sleazy

lawyer. It's hard to buy. Yeah. Are you available, Gilbert? Yeah. What about Cary Grant before we get you out of here, John? And I watched That Touch of Mink. By the way, great scene of the New York Automat in that movie

we love movies where you get to see old New York old forgotten New York that was a good scene tell us about Cary Grant tell us about working with him you have just those two scenes together

but they're so much fun he was both he and Doris Day were wonderful but they're so much fun. He was, both he and Doris Day were wonderful. Wonderful to work with. Kerry was so nice to me. He continued to encourage me after the movie. When I did Operation Petticoat, he sent word to me how happy he was that I was doing it and so on. How nice. G gave me tips on

where to buy clothes how nice but and doris was uh uh you know, off camera. You worked with her a lot. A swell human being. So I was very lucky on that film. And that came from one of the jobs that Abby Greshler got me. Abby Greshler. Yeah, Dr. Abby Gressler. Okay, before we let you out of here, we're going to embarrass you, John, if that's okay.

Oh, boy. This is what I've been waiting for. We found a clip from 1964. Let's see. I think this is you on American Bandstand. Do you know what we're going for here? On American Bandstand? With Dick Clark. You're doing

a song. Oh, yeah. Is this Wallflower Pete? This is Wallflower Pete. Oh, my God. Yes, yes. That got a lot of plays, actually. It got me a deal. It got me a deal with United

Artists.ists record deal. I didn't appreciate it. I was shooting a film somewhere in Europe or something and didn't really follow up on it. How did this happen? You were hot from the Addams Family and they said... Yeah, and I did... A side was Karina Mia. A side was Karina Mia and

the B side, it was a forerunner of a kind of rap. We're looking at you right now, by the way. We're looking at you against a brick wall. And these girls doing like the boogaloo. You are surrounded by

go-go dancers. Started from the beginning. We're going to play a little of it for you. That's great. His arms were at ease. His feet flat west. He was jerking away like all the rest. That's great. Oh, sugar. I got it at home. How you didn't become a rock star after that.

You know, my, you see, the A side was Carita Mia, and I did a whole thing, and Lloyd Thaxton. Remember him? Oh, sure. Lloyd Thaxton. Channel 13, wasn't it? Lloyd Thaxton. Was he a comedy writer? No, he was a performer. Oh, I'm thinking of somebody else.

Yes. A host or something like that. Oh, I'm thinking of somebody else. Yes. A host or something like that. Yes, I'm thinking of somebody else. And he would do a lip sync to Querida Mia. I see. And actually, on Hollywood a go-go, On Hollywood a go-go, I did that. That was really on the edge.

It was so sexy, all the girls, dancers on that thing. The one you have, the Wallflower Pete, that was American Bandstand and was clean. Right. We want to direct our... Hollywood a go-go came from a local station. We want to direct our listeners to YouTube to find you singing Wallflower Pete. There's also an interview with you and Dick Clark where you're talking about the Addams Family. Yeah, it's great to see these old clips. Yeah.

So tell us about the family. Mackenzie we know about. Obviously, Sean, we know about. Both of them with terrific careers. And again, we're indebted to them for making this happen. Finally. Yes. So all hail Sean and Mackenzie.

Thank you. But it's a big brood now, John. It is. Well, my third wife, Valerie, is what I refer to as the dessert in my life. Referred to as the dessert in my life. We've been, I'd say our next anniversary, which is a couple of months from now, will be 30 years. Oh, congrats. We've been married.

Yeah, thanks. And she's an amazing human being. We refer to her basically as the general. The general. Well, how many kids and grandkids now? And she's about 5'1". Okay. Oh, so I see. But she's the general. And then the other three are in order an inventor, a teacher, and probably will become a therapist.

And the other is a programmer. Okay. So this is a creative family with a science in the family, science in the genes, which we didn't get into. And when your son said they were going into show business, what was your feeling about that? Delight. Good for you.

You encouraged them. Yeah. Yeah, but I wanted them to do it the right way if they could. Actually, all five of them had a little touch with it of one kind or another. Uh-huh. I remember Alan was in a pilot film I did, which didn't sell. And it wasn't Alan's fault. But it was a lot of fun to do, as a matter of fact.

I met some friendly writers on that show. And one of them is still a friend. Good. Married to my representative. Oh, okay. Because Abby Greshler is long gone. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I got to say, John, we've done about 230 of these. Everybody from Carl Reiner to Bruce Dern to Peter Bogdanovich. Dick Van Dyke. Dick Van Dyke was here. Norman Lear was here. Buck Henry, who I know you know. Yeah. And this one was particularly satisfying because we chased you down for so long.

Well, you know, it's interesting. I was thinking about this. You talked about the fact that a lot of people wanted me to come on the show, people you'd heard from. Yeah. And unless you were just jiving me. Not at all. Oh, okay.

I've got, I told Mackenzie, I've got 57 pages of Facebook posts from people who wanted you to come on the show. Really? Which is about 400 people that wrote about you specifically, which I sent to your office. I'm sorry if you didn't get it. Oh, really? I'll send it again. Oh, fantastic. Yes, an outpouring of love.

But there's something about the myriad reruns of The Addams Family, there's such a positive affect to, and I credit the writing of the show, and the quality of performance in it. People absolutely loved that experience. performance in it. People absolutely loved that experience. And Carolyn and I

were sort of surrogate parents for a lot of kids who'd run home from school and visit the Adams family on a daily basis when they were stripping it. And visit the Adams family on a daily basis, you know, when they were stripping it.

Uh-huh. And while we were in production only two years, the effect of the show is much greater than that. And so in Hollywood, they don't really know how powerful the effect of that show was nationally. I can't escape it because- Of course. in my altered state now without hair except on my face I'm still

you know not all the time anymore but recognized by people, partly because of my voice, I think. Yes, it's unmistakable. And the, I found it out when I started doing plays because people would come to see something that I did. And

I'm so grateful for the good luck to have been in a show with the kinds of writers that that show had. And particularly my gratitude goes to Ed and Cy and to Nat

and David Levy, the executive producer. I mean, they gave us something really fantastic to work with. That's great. And it has such a strong positive affect. A strong, positive affect. People's hearts are warmed by the kind of humor that's in that show. Absolutely. And it's not terribly dissimilar from some of the Marx Brothers stuff.

Or you can't take it with you, which reminds me of sometimes. Exactly. That screwball family. Yeah, we use that analogy a number of times when talking about the show. You can't take it with you. You belong to that fraternity of actors that are like Carol O'Connor and Alan Alda, who will be known for many things, but

that part, that character, it's iconic. Yeah, it's... Of course, my brother said, you know, the real you is Gomez Adams. That's great. That's great.

We hope you work on a book, John. There's so much. And we could interview you for about six hours because there is a lot to cover. We want to thank patrick mccarthy my friend who who uh who hooked me up with sean who got this process started and we want to thank our engineer who's there with you rob spiewak and do you have anything you want to plug before yeah plug the theater program yeah plug the theater program tell them to them to give us a major. It's the John Astin.

Tell us what it is. It's the John Astin Theater at Johns Hopkins University. Yeah. That has to be a thrill, too, to have the theater named after you, for God's sake. Yeah, it is. It is that. I know you're into something called value creation, John, because I was doing very deep diving about your work and how you talk to your students.

And I just want to tell you that Gilbert and I have been lifelong fans, and you have created a lot of value for us. Thank you very much. And many people. You know, it's part of my buddhist philosophy but it existed long before that because i i noticed an article that was in a hopkins publication uh when i was in three penny opera. And they asked me a question, what is it you really want to do?

And I said, I want to try a way to create value on the stage. You have, my friend. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for decades of entertainment. And thanks for your research. Are you kidding? I've been researching you for about two years.

Hoping this day would arrive. Do you know what my first movie was? Oh, God. Yeah, I have it somewhere. Give me a hint. Well, my first Hollywood movie was West Side Story. Oh, West Side Story.

We didn't even get to west side story glad hand but i i used to say that all the time glad hand until someone from new york uh said but john what about the pusher oh that's right too i found that in the credits i I have, I think, two lines in the pusher as a detective. Yeah. We hope you write a book. We hope we get to see you again, John,

and cover some more stuff. Thank you very much, guys. And this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. And we've been

talking to a guest who was well worth the wait. John Aspen. And then some. And John, I'm going to send you those Facebook posts from your fans. Okay. Thank you, John. Thank you. And thank you, Mackenzie. Thank you. Thank you, John. Thank you. And thank you, Mackenzie. Thank you. Thank you. They're creepy and they're kooky, mysterious and spooky. They're all together ooky, the Addams Family.

The house is a museum. When people come to see them, they really are a scream, the Addams Family. Neat. Sweet. Petite. So get a witch's shawl on, a broomstick you can crawl on. We're gonna pay a call on the Addams Family. Pilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast is produced by Dara Gottfried and Frank Santapadre,

with audio production by Frank Verderosa. Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley-Seals. Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special thanks to John Fodiatis, John Murray, and Paul Rayburn.