Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 252. Andrew Bergman

Episode Date: March 25, 2019

"Serpentine!" Screenwriter-director Andrew Bergman regales Gilbert and Frank with behind-the-scenes stories from two of cinema's most unforgettable comedies, "Blazing Saddles" and "The In-Laws," and��looks back on working with showbiz legends George Burns, Red Buttons, Maximillian Schell, Jack Warden and (notably) Marlon Brando. Also, Johnny Carson turns down the Waco Kid, Richard Libertini "destroys" Alan Arkin, Gilbert writes a fan letter to Lon Chaney Jr. and Andrew's dad pens gags for Victor Borge. PLUS: "Honeymoon in Vegas"! The genius of Bob and Ray! Deconstructing "Duck Soup"! Mel Brooks sends up "The Caine Mutiny"! And Bert Parks sings to a Komodo dragon!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Buy it today at major retailers. I'm Nancy Allen and you're listening to Gilbert Godfrey's amazing colossal pod plant oh this could take a while this could take a while I should have been rehearsing this okay I'm Nancy Allen

and you're listening to Gilbert Godfrey's amazing colossal podcast Gilbert you eat shit Okay, I'm Nancy Allen, and you're listening to Gilbert Godfrey's Amazing Colossal Podcast. Gilbert, you eat shit. He's easily pleased, Nancy. You are a very sick person. I hate to tell you. I'm sorry. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and our engineer, Frank Verderosa. Our guest this week is a novelist, playwright, occasional producer, and greatly admired screenwriter and film director whose work

includes some of the most memorable comedies of the last 50 years. He's written four novels, The Big Kiss Off of 1944, Hollywood and Levine, Tender is Levine, and Sleepless Nights. He's also written for the stage, including the critically acclaimed Broadway play, Social Security, which was directed by Mike Nichols. And the book for the Broadway musical version of his film Honeymoon in Vegas. Screenwriting credits include Soap Dish, Oh God, You Devil, The Scout, and the original Fletch, Oh God, You Devil, The Scout, and The Original Fletch, as well as classic comedy that Frank and I talk about frequently on this very podcast, The In-Laws.

He's also directed the features Honeymoon in Vegas, So Fine It Could Happen to You, Striptease, Isn't She Great, and The Freshman, starring former podcast guest Matthew Broderick. He was one of the screenwriters of a movie based on his original story, which also happens to be one of the funniest movies ever committed to celluloid, the Mel Brooks-directed Blazing Saddles. In a career spanning five decades, In a career spanning five decades, he's worked with some of the entertainment industry's most notable performers, including Richard Pryor, Alan Arkin, Madeline Kahn, John Cleese, and Bank Rob, James Kahn, Bette Midler, Gene Wilder, Burt Reynolds, George Burns, and Marlon Brando. Please welcome to the podcast an artist of numerous talents and the man who gave the world the catchphrase, Serpentine.

The pride of Corona Queens, Andrew Bergman. Sounds like it should be a fight introduction. Pride of Corona Queens. I should be coming in white trunks and 135 pants. Welcome, Andrew. Nice to be here. Thanks for doing this. Now, the reason we wanted you on the show, and it's what all of our fans are demanding to know.

Why? You worked with Marlon Brando and Richard Pryor. And so are you aware that Marlon Brando fucked Richard Pryor in the ass? You know the details of their sexual moment? I have no idea. First of all, obviously I had no idea of any of this when I worked with either of them. You heard Quincy Jones, though, say this. I did hear that.

It was quite taken by that. But when you were working with Brando, did he say, you know, that night with Richie? No, he did not. One time I fought Richard Pryor in the ass. He never said that. This is his idea of an icebreaker. Well, listen. We're all grown-ups, right? Adults.

No, he didn't. It's quite a story. But I can't say anything that he would do would completely shock me. No. Either of them. Yeah. Because Quincy Jones said they were both coked up. And, well, you heard the whole thing.

And Richard Pryor told you personally, you're all Marlon Brando, fuck me and Ash. He never said that. You know, Richard Donner was here. He worked with both of them, and he asked them the same question. But at least he waited until about 40 minutes into that one. That's your icebreaker? He let them loosen up.

He let them get comfortable. Rolls right off my back. But you do have some great Brando stories, things that actually did happen. Yes. Yeah. And we were talking about one outside when you went to, you and your producing partner flew to Tahiti to meet with him about the freshman. That was quite remarkable. You want to hear this entire endless backstory?

Yeah. It's great. Well, he had been an in-laws fan, which I was aware of, because he called me out of the blue one day, and I thought it was a prank call, but it wasn't. It was him. And he was going to do a movie with Michael Jackson, since we're now on the-

Right. That's timely, too. Perversions around the world. Nice segue. Yeah. So as long as we're in that arena. He was going to do a movie with Michael Jackson which sounded like

something that could never possibly happen. But I knew so I said, well that's interesting. But I knew he knew my work so when I wrote The Freshman we sent him a script and he read it like overnight which was amazing. And what was the story going to be with Brando and Michael Jackson?

One of them was going to play God, and the other one was playing the devil. Perfect. I don't know who and what. And I called Scorsese. I said, is this thing really happening? He said, well, I'm not. He sort of fumbled for a second. I knew it was a non-starter.

It was such a hopeless idea. Given the personalities, you knew it wasn't going to happen. So anyhow, he says, we should talk about, I sent him the script. He said, let's talk about it. I said, well, I'm going to fly out. I'll come to L.A. tomorrow. He said, no, no, let's meet in Tahiti. I'm going to be in Tahiti.

Now, he really didn't like Tahiti that much. But it was this whole kind of Lord Jim, you know, this mystique. So we flew to Tahiti to meet with him. And he was enormous. And it was quite an amazing five days. What was the thing that you were on the plane and you saw this large? Well, that was the thing. We were flying the plane and you saw this large? Well, that was the thing. We were flying in.

You fly to Papette, the capital, and then you take this puddle jumper the next morning to his own island. It's a gorgeous island. And we're flying in and I see this,

what appears to be a woman with blonde hair but weighed 300 pounds. And my producing partner said, who the hell is that? I said, I think that's him. He dyed his hair for some movie he had done. Unbelievable. And it was just remarkable.

For four days, we talked about everything but the movie. And then finally, we started talking about the movie. Yeah. And this I found fascinating too, Gilbert, and you'll love this. He loved old Jewish stand-ups. Yeah. That's what I found. That was the secret.

You know, he'd been sort of raised by the Adler family, Stella Adler. He was into all this. He confessed he loved Jackie Mason. Old Borscht Belt. Yeah, he loved the dumbest, shittiest. Myron Cohen and all those guys. All of them. Yeah.

That's great. Morty Gunty. It was all right up his alley, That's great. Morty Gunty. It was all right up his alley a little bit. Morty Gunty. Marlon Brando's a Morty Gunty fan. He had a weakness for those. Norm Crosby. Those jokes.

Jackie Vernon. Jackie Vernon. Yeah. God. We bring him up on this show. Yeah. That's great. And he tested you by asking you what your favorite comedy was?

No, he would say, you know, he's not naturally a comic presence on screen. And I wanted to keep him sort of loosey-goosey. And I told him this joke at some point, you know, the two guys who cross Collins Avenue, Abe and Saul. And Abe gets hit by a car and Saul says, are you comfortable? And Abe says, I make a living. He loved that. He said, what was the funniest thing? So do working guys say, what was that one again? The two gentlemen, they're crossing the street and what are they? So it would be working.

What was that one again? The two gentlemen, they're crossing the street. And what are they? I said, you know, I give them the joke. And he started laughing. He'd go do the take. The other thing, I had this habit of eating bazooka bubble gum when I was shooting. It was a nervous habit.

And he said, what are you chewing? I said, bazooka bubble gum. He said, can I have one? This is, bazooka bubblegum. Can I have one? This is how you direct the greatest actor in the world. I said, if I get a great take, I'm giving you a piece of gum. It's like Ed Sullivan with a chimp on a motorcycle. So he does his take. Of course he nails it.

He walks over with his hand outstretched. Fantastic. Unbelievable. That was rewarding and admirable. Rewarding and admirable. Yes. What was the thing about the calls? The phone calls that you had to work out a code? Yes.

Well, you know, Marlon had like nine phones in his house, none of which he ever answered. He would take messages on one of them. He said, well, how are we going to communicate? He said, well, I have to give you a code. I feel like I was dealing with the CIA, dealing with Marlon. He said, what kind of sandwich do you like? I said, well, tuna fish.

I said, all right, if you want to leave a message, say it's tuna fish one. If you want to return, tuna fish two. If it's very important, tuna fish three. And if it's life-threatening, tuna fish four, but never use tuna fish four. I said it. It's like DEFCON. DEFCON, absolutely. This is like nuclear attack.

So I said, I hope I never get to three. So I'm up in the Berkshires summering, and I let a couple of weeks pass because I know what he's doing. He's showing the script to people he knows and getting their kibitzing with him. So I wait a week, and I leave him a tuna fish. That's it. Then walk away. Two weeks later, a week later I leave him a tuna fish. That's it. And then walk away.

Two weeks later, a week later, tuna fish two. Now I start going by decimals. I leave him a tuna fish 2.2 because I don't even want to get to three. A tuna fish 2.8. Then he calls me. Well, we should really get together and talk. I said, fine. And that's when he said, let's come to Tahiti.

Yeah, that's great. Bananas. At what point did he say, come to Tahiti. Yeah, that's great. Bananas. At what point did he say, I have to play this like Don Corleone because they're only going to accept me as... Yeah.

When we were in Tahiti, he said, you know, I can't play just a Goomba. I can't play another guy. Right. They expect... Of course. I didn't really think they did,

but hell, to get him in the movie, I said fine. Of course. So I had to figure out how could I do some non-liabilist way to have him appropriate that character. So I thought, well, you're the real guy. You're the one they based Don Corleone on. And that's how he did that. That works for everybody.

I love that. And he hated Tahiti? He didn't like it that much. What, he was making Muti on Bounty or something, and he bought a bunch of those islands for Trump shows? And he hated Tahiti? He didn't like it that much. What, he was making music on Bounty or something, and he bought a bunch of those islands for Trump change? $250,000. $250,000. And it's a beautiful place.

Wow. But he liked the feeling of... He liked being Marlon Brando in Tahiti. Yeah. I mean, I think that was the thing of it. I mean, I think basically he was sort of bored shitless there. You know? I mean, I think that was the thing of it.

I mean, I think basically he was sort of Boyd Shitless there. And he knew everything about it. He knew everything about it. The ornithology, the, you know. Well, he was a learned guy. I mean, he was a guy who was interested in everything. Well, here's the thing. He knew if he picked up the phone, he'd get anybody in the world to talk to him.

You know, he's Marlon Brando. So he would, if he was interested in something, he would call like the expert at UCLA. Wow. Mr. Brando, like F. DeNurse, has to discuss, you know, migrations of seabirds. And they show up. You get the five smartest people in the world and they'd pick their brains. Imagine having that access. King of the world.

Now, did he also, I mean, I heard, especially later in his career, he would just do things to fuck with movie makers just because he could. Oh, he always did. He would torture producers

mercilessly. He once, I mean, he called Mike LaBelle, the producer of the movie, and it sounded like he was in an airplane. And he told Mike that he was actually flying to Tahiti for the weekend.

He borrowed Frank Sinatra's plane, but he'll be back Monday. And the producer goes, like, I had a breakdown. Because you know, if this guy leaves, one of the officers will be back

on the halfway through the picture. But he just was in his hotel in Toronto, you know, working these machines that made it sound like he was in some

pressurized cabin. That's fantastic. Want to come back? We'll come back to the freshman, too, because there's a lot to unpack there. But I want to just go back, because there's a connection here. I'm asking you about growing up in Queens.

We like to get local boys on the show. Gilbert's very excited when we have a Jewish guest, by the way. Are you? Aren't you, Gilbert? They're so rare in New York. Yeah, and they're so rare in show business. He keeps a tally.

Shoes in show business. Yeah. But you grew up in Queens. I did. In Corona. Darkest Queens. Playing stickball in the street. All that.

And I found this fascinating. I didn't know this about you. And all the times I saw you interviewed that your dad wrote gags for Victor Borga. My father was, my parents were German refugees. My father really had always wanted to be in the movie business. In fact, he worked for Universal Pictures in Berlin. The guy who founded Universal, Carl Laemmle. Uncle Carl.

Oh, yeah. Uncle Carl was from his hometown. And in fact, Laemmle wrote the affidavit that got my father out of Germany, which he did for a lot of people. Oh, shit. That's great history. Wow. He did that for a lot of people. He got a lot That's great history. Wow. He did that for a lot of people.

He got a lot of people out of Lemley. He really did. So he never got a chance to do it. He came over in 1937 when it was not an optimum time to find a job. He sold full of brushes, and then he went to work for the Daily News News translating German broadcasts shortwave

for the news desk and he segued from there into the radio TV department and he wrote radio and TV you know

reviews and things and then he started writing gags on this and he wrote for Borga great yeah he wanted to be a comedy writer or he just wanted to be

a writer well a writer but he was a very funny man. Yeah. Now, I know you were watching Bob and Ray and you were watching all this stuff and Gene Shepard. I knew them. My father also worked with Bob and Ray who were fantastic. I used to

watch them work. My father worked for CBS Radio as a flack for a while. And they had a 15-minute show every night. He said said let's go let's we sat in the control room and watched

you know with the sound effects guy and the whole thing it was great so great beyond great and they they had a note

in front of them they just knocked the stuff off and it was so paralyzing they were so funny god were they funny so he was introducing

you to this stuff directly. And Kovacs. He was the first critic in New York to write about Kovacs. Wow. Yeah. Your dad's name was Rudy? Rudy Bergman. Rudy Bergman.

Looking and listening with Rudy Bergman on Daily News. Wow. So what was your first job in show business? My first job in show business, I got a PhD in American history. And I wrote this book. This book that's right here, We're in the Money, Depression, America, and its Films.

Fascinating read. And I couldn't get a teaching job because there were like 10 million PhDs at that point because everybody had gone to graduate school to avoid going to Vietnam. That was your choice. So I got a job as a flack at United Artists for a year because my father knew various PR guys around town. so I got a job as a flack at United Artists for a year because he knew

my father knew various PR guys around town and that was a fascinating job I worked I met Fellini and Truffaut

and all these amazing people you replaced Jonathan Demme in that job I replaced Jonathan Demme it was similarly qualified to be a flack

as I was wow to you know yeah no good Nicks so I and while I was. Too, you know. Yeah. No good, Nicks. So, and while I was doing that, I was writing this novella about a black sheriff in the Old West.

Yeah. We had Norman here, as you know, and we talked a little bit about the genesis of Blazing Saddles. Now, this could be bullshit or I got bad information. Did it somehow start with a poster of Jimi Hendrix on a horse? That was one thing. He was not wrong. Okay. I had an idea back in,

I was in graduate school at Wisconsin, Madison in the 60s, which was bananas in those days. And I loved westerns. I remember seeing The Wild Bunch out there.

I said, whoa, that's a movie and I I had there was a poster of Hendrix on a horse I think I know that poster

it was a very famous poster and I said now there's something there and I remember writing a letter in front of my I just had this idea of a town

waiting for the new sheriff to show up in 1850 and it's Jimi Hendrix what would that be? right and that was that was the the little pearl of a town waiting for the new sheriff to show up in 1850, and it's Jimi Hendrix. What would that be? Right. And that was the little pearl in the oyster's belly.

And that's what the idea germinated. And did it morph into, oh, he might be more radicalized, he might be like an H. Rap Brown kind of character, or a Huey Newton kind of character? The way things happen when you start writing something, at least anything, any good that I've written, it just takes off. Just a germ of an idea. It's just a horse, you let him take you someplace. And who are some of the actors they originally wanted?

Well, there's only one actually, because Alan Arkin was going to direct the original My Text X. I wrote a first draft. Was it a treatment now or a full screenplay? First, there was this novella. A novella? Nobody knew who the hell I was. I was going to write a treatment. I didn't even have to write a treatment. I didn't treatment now or a full screenplay at this point? First, there was this novella. A novella? Nobody knew who the hell I was. I was going to write a treatment. I didn't even know how to write a treatment.

I didn't know how to write a script. Right. So I wrote this 90-page story which was very flashy. It was a good story. I still have it. And I sold it to Warner Brothers

and they commissioned a first draft which I wrote with like the margins out to here. I didn't know the form of anything. And they hired Arkin to direct it.

And he went after James Earl Jones and they realized that that wasn't going to work because James Earl Jones was not really a comic presence. Far from it. So that fell apart. And then they called me and said, what do you think of Mel Brooks? I said, well, I mean,

2,000-year-old man with my Bible in college. You know, who's funnier? I said, let's give it, 2,000-year-old man with my Bible in college. You know, who's funnier? I said, let's give it a shot. And you were 26. So how are you going to resist the idea of Mel Brooks? I'm going to say, no, no, no, I can't do that. Right, right. But they tried out a bunch of actors or went after a few actors for the Gene Wilder part.

Yeah, that was later. That was really good. Once we started, the guy we really wanted was Johnny Carson. We sent the script to Johnny Carson. We went, wow, that would be amazing. Wow, the Waco kid, Johnny Carson. Waco kid, Johnny Carson. It was like stunt casting, and he read it, and we were like waiting by the phone.

It was like three Jews sitting by a phone waiting. It's like a day. He finally said, I can't do this. I can't be in it. Johnny, I just can't do this. So we were crushed. So then we hired... Nico for Dan Daly?

Dan Daly, and that fell through. And then he hired Gig Young. Gig Young is hired to play the Waco kid. And the first day of shooting, he collapses in an alcoholic coma. He was a serious drinker. And that's the first day of shooting of Blazing Saddles. Gig Young collapsed on the floor. That was an auspicious beginning.

Yeah. And then they said that Brooks thought, what a great performance. Yeah, he thought. Yeah, they all said, wow, what a great performance. Yeah, he thought. They all said, wow, this guy's amazing. Until they realized he really was passing out so often. So then he went to Gene,

one of the producers, and begged him, and Gene said, I'll do it if you do, if you make this movie I'm interested in doing, which was Young Frankenstein. Wow. So that's how that transaction began. And of course, now you watch the film and you can't think of anybody else.

Because we thought, you know, there's going to be an older guy, and Gene was probably 35 at the time. But he was great. A perfect drunk. And you really believe those two guys loved each other. That was the key to the success of that movie, I think. While Gilbert tries to remember who our guest is... And what's your name? A few words from our sponsor.

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Buy it today at major retailers. Gil and Frank went out to pee, now they're back so they can be on their amazing Colossal Podcast. Kids, time to get back to Gilbert and Frank's amazing Colossal Podcast. So, let's go! And you know from making so many movies and from going down this road so many times, the serendipity is always...

It's insane. I mean, you have Richard Pryor actually is being courted to play the sheriff. Yeah, but Warners wasn't going to do it. Warners wasn't going to go for that. So you wind up with Cleavon Little, which is a beautiful. It was my original idea when I wrote the story. Really?

Yes. Oh, my gosh. The first person who read even the treatment was Cleavon Little, whose manager said, we're not interested. Of course, he never saw it. Right, right. But you wind up with Cleavon Little and gene wilder and it's perfect yeah but it's so funny to think that then later on gene wilder and richard prior would be this big movie comedy team go and know as they say yeah yeah but just and you oh they they said to i mean one of the things that scared them, of many things about Pryor, was how that he disappeared one time.

Well, he would show up to write, or sometimes he wouldn't show up to write. You know, it was Richie. But he was so funny and so brilliant. But no studio was going to take a gamble on him at that point. but he was so funny and so brilliant but it was no studio was going to take a gamble on him at that point they said he was at one point

he called from another state Detroit yeah he said he was in Detroit that's possible yeah was the producer Michael Hertzberg said where are you Richard

and he said I'm in Detroit I followed some girls Norman told us how the of the room changed. Yeah. Yeah. And that writer's room had to be. That was a fun room. Yeah.

You said it was like a Marx Brothers movie at certain points. I said that? Yeah. With Richard in there. Well, Richard was. And Norman and Mel throwing things off. You know, I always say it's like sort of, I'd never worked with anybody.

I'd never written a script. And I always say it's like playing tennis and there's three guys warming up and it's, you know, Lendl and Borg and Connors. Why don't you go hit with them and see what happens? Was it competitive too?

You know what? It was just all for one and one for all. It wasn't really people trying to, no, that's no good. It was just, it's like that game of telephone when people say, who wrote that one?

Some lines I absolutely remember, but when you go around a room, it just gets transmogrified over and over and over again, and suddenly, that's it. The right one comes out. Yeah, Norman's cagey about it too.

He either doesn't remember who wrote what, or he just wants to get group credit. Yeah, it really was. It really worked that way. And I heard that Pryor would sit across from Mel Brooks and be like pouring cocaine. That was the first day. Yes. My God. That was the first day. Yes. Oh, my God. That was the icebreaker.

Well, it's a little early. 11 o'clock is a little early for cocaine. And we're in the conference room at Warner Brothers, 666 Fifth Avenue. Generally, he stuck to Gavoisier. He didn't do that much coke. Is this BS, too, or was Dick Gregory approached by Mel at a certain point to see if he was interested in coming on board before Pryor? I don't think so.

I found that in an article. I thought it didn't ring true. It's interesting. The deeper you go into this research, the more you find stuff. There's always a great amount of mythology. There's mythology attached to it. And you guys turned in, what, a 400-page draft? No.

Also bullshit. Yeah. It was like 150 pages. It was long. Okay. Yeah. But double-spaced. It wasn't unwieldy.

But there were some great bits that we lost along the way. Do you have the original? Oh, sure. Oh, God. And you haven't shown anybody, except for maybe some writer friends. I mean, Mel wanted to play a guy named, based on Humphrey Bogart,

we're going to have a cowpoke named Bogie, who would only talk about, where are the strawberries? Now, you have four quarts of strawberries. Cane mure. Yeah, this is a cane mure. That has two pints left. Every time you cut to the end.

Because in the documentary about Blazing Saddles, there's two scenes with him that were cut. Yeah. Yeah. With Governor LePetermaine, which is also an inside joke. Yes. Yes. Yes. And when the movie came out, well, they called Harvey Korman Hedley Lamar. Hedley Lamar. Yeah.

And she sued. Yeah. Yeah. Hedley Lamar sued. Which is all extra weird because it's a joke. It was fine with us. It's a joke in the movie about her suing. Yes.

Yeah. They said this is- 1874. 1874. So we could sue her. So, and what happened with Hedy Lamarr?

The lawsuit was dismissed as a frivolous, ridiculous exercise. But didn't Mel Brooks say, oh, pay her already? Did he? In an interview, in the documentary, the same documentary I think we both watched,

he's saying, she's Hedy Lamarr, give her some money. Maybe he did. That cast, and the more you watch it, I mean, there's, you know. Harvey was unbelievable. Oh, my God. Oh, yes. And she and. The two of them.

Madeline was extraordinary. The two of them. And Slim Pickens is stupendous. Every bit part. Every bit part. Every bit part. And Burton, who you brought back in Honeymoon in Vegas. George Firth, David Huddleston. That was a wild catch.

John Hillerman. Every part is so perfect. And everybody has their little star turn. Everybody has great moments. Alex Karras even. That's what I learned. You give everybody some choice

dish to eat. I try to do that in all my movies after that. That you don't just throw people away. You give them something that they can be remembered for in a movie. We're talking about it outside, our obsession with character actors, our shared obsession. And I for in a movie. Well, we're talking about it outside, our obsession with character actors, our shared obsession.

And I also, in the movie, how like the climax, they escape from the studio where Blazing Saddles is and just go all over the place. Break the wall. Yeah. That's Kovacs.

That was the kind of thing you didn't see in feature films. No. That was really quite something. And that I credit Mel for, because we had a more conventional ending. And he said, this movie needs something more nuts at the end. Yeah. It's wonderful.

So this movie opens. You guys think the whole time you're writing it, this is a joke between us. Well, Warner Brothers thought it was a joke between them. They thought it was just going to die within minutes upon release. But you guys shared that. You guys thought, this is for us. Nobody's ever going to see this. Yeah, but that's the lesson you learn.

Write for yourself and see what happens. Yeah. And the funny thing is, like, back then, I mean, the bean-eating scene was hysterically funny. Now it seems like you can't make a comedy without fart sounds in them. So it's not funny anymore. Yeah. It's not bold

anymore. And it's not authentic. Nobody had ever seen anything like that. Of course. And is it true that they just recorded guys with their hands under their elbows for the farts? This I don't know. I do know that Mel said they just recorded guys with their hands under their elbows? This I don't know.

I do know that Mel said, the sound guys were saying, these are too loud. And Mel said, believe me, after the first one, you're not going to hear anything after this. You can do whatever you want. It was true.

It was people going so bananas. It was like pantomime. Yeah. But it's also made, but clearly made by guys with a great affection for westerns. Oh, totally. Yeah, yeah. It's an homage as well as a sad time. Well, what it really was, was when you're a kid and you go to the movies and you talk back to the screen. This was, we did the talking back in the movie, you know?

So you're 26 in the writer's room. I guess you're 26, 27 when the movie opens. And now you're a screenwriter. Yeah. Now you're a Hollywood screenwriter. Was your dad around to see all this success? No, he was dead by then. I'm sorry.

Yeah, that was a heartbreak. And I remember when we went out to L.A. to start, do a rewrite and do the casting, and I knew how much, what that would have meant to him. I must have, when I drove onto that lot, I cried. Oh boy, I'll bet. So now, how do we get from Blazing Saddles to the next project? The next project was a movie I wrote called Rhapsody in Crime.

Right, right. Which was a great script. Which I want to read. Cagney, John Garfield? It was all the 30s movies wrapped up in one. It was a concert pianist, a gangster who was a great concert pianist. It was a prison movie. It was all of those movies.

I'm a Fugitive from a Chain Gang. It was your tribute to all of them. Every one of them rolled up to one end. It ended with the hero playing the Tchaikovsky piano concerto on the roof of Carnegie Hall in a big shootout. And it's sort of like a white heat ending. Everything just explodes. It was great.

And Warner Brothers paid a fortune for it. I didn't have a real producer for it, so it never happened. Rhapsody in Crime. Rhapsody in Crime. I saw you'd filmed for him, and you were saying that that movie today would cost about $600 million.

I mean, anything you wanted. Blazing Saddles would have cost you. And Mel Brooks has said quite a number of times that Blazing Saddles could not be made today. No, there's no chance. So many reasons. For a million, he lists them alphabetically. Yeah. Starting with the fact that it's an original screenplay. Oh, yeah. That already dooms it.

Yeah. And, you know, it's in real locations. Every movie is out of a computer box. So nothing really, you can't relate to it in a real way anymore. You know, actors look like cockroaches, like crawling over a mountain. It's just not, just wouldn't happen. People would misunderstand it today. They would misinterpret it.

And by the way, I saw it with an audience, and Mel was showing it at Radio City last year. And I took my wife, and I thought, can an audience actually handle this? They still can. Still can? It's fine? Well, because you know already. You know what it is. Yeah, yeah. Very brave filmmaking.

So you get a phone call about Rhapsody in Crime that you're not expecting. The good news, bad news, cool. Bad news is

we're not making Rhapsody in Crime. The good news, we want you to write the sequel to Freebie and the Bean. I said, I'm not sure

that's the good news. Tell me again what the good news is. Did you know this, Gilbert? Yes. He said, well, I'm not sure that's the good, tell me again what the good news is. Did you know this, Gilbert? Yes. He said, well, it's not really a sequel to Phoebe and the Bean, but Alan Arkin and Peter Falk want to do a movie together. I said, well, that's interesting.

And they struck me as, didn't they make a movie? That was my first thought. Right. Because it seemed like such a natural pairing of opposites. So Alan and I started, Alan was the executive producer, so we started meeting to discover how can we find a movie where they could play to their strengths, the strengths being that Peter would drive Alan nuts for two hours.

That's the only plot I could imagine. Right. Because their personalities, one is a hysteric and one is a turtle. Right. So at some point I said, how about their in-laws? That's the only way I could think of that they'd be absolutely glued together and they couldn't get out of it. And then it really wrote itself. I mean, that script was like 140 pages.

And it just kept going and going it was because it was there was no plot right the whole plot was completely it's a macguffin yeah it was a moving target engraving plates and i heard the it didn't change that much in the making from the original i mean that i have to say that script was like perfect. That was my 27 of 27 down. That was the script. It just worked. And because it was written for two, it was like fitting two suits.

Sure. You know, those guys were so specific. And somebody said that when Arkin first pitched it, his idea was, I want to be in a movie with Peter Falk where he does stuff and I'm annoyed by it. Well, that was it. That's it.

There's no other. That's the whole movie. It's also a trailblazer in a way because the buddy comedy wasn't really a thing yet. There weren't the way it became. Yeah. The way they just started cranking them out in the 80s. Yeah. No, it was just was it was a joy and um it was one of those things

that just everything sort of fell together and also talk about great other people ed begley and everybody and libertini was hysterical in the movie yeah oh god and did did you see the michael douglas salber i did yeah um and i got the best reviews i ever got in my entire life when that Did you see the Michael Douglas, Sal Berger? I did. Yeah. And I got the best reviews I ever got in my entire life when that movie came out. I ran to Larry David. He said, what do you think? I said, it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Can't compare.

Work of genius, you know. And Alan felt the same way. Yeah, I heard he was getting phone calls. Peter called them when the reviews came out. They were celebrating, you know. Because at the whole point of the reviews, how could they transgress on this masterpiece? And even critics who crapped on our movie were like, oh, how could they?

Right, right, right, right. Tell us about writing the dinner scene and how you could have gone on and on. Well, the dinner scene originally was like 40, 35 pages long. I realized that couldn't be that long. But once you get in that rhythm of somebody bullshitting insanely. So good. In that voice, in that droning, ridiculous voice, I just hated it.

I hated to stop writing it. Oh, it was an incredible sight. Peasants screaming, chasing these flies down the road, waving balloons. You can imagine the pathetic quality of this, waving these crudely fashioned balloons at these enormous flies

as they carry their children off to almost certain death. That is just the most horrible thing. You sure these are flies you're talking about? Flies? The natives had a name for them. Jose Grecos de Muertos. Flamenco dancers of death. You took those slides of them. They never came out, remember?

Well, that's a shame. I really would have liked to have seen those slides. Me too. Yeah, I left them in a jacket that got modernized i tell you it broke my heart because those slides would have won me a pulpit surprise the enormous flies flapping slowly away into the sunset small brown babies clutched in their beaksaks. Flies with beaks. The tsetse flies. The tsetse flies. Yeah, the tsetse flies carrying little beaks. It's the funniest thing ever. Jose Grecos de Muertos.

When I wrote that, I said, God just gave me that line. Jose Grecos de Muertos. Flamingo dancers of death. So is when Arkin says, there's red tape in the bush. There's red tape in the bush. The word bush, I don't have to tell you, is gold. Because every time you say it, it's such a ridiculous word. He's so perfect.

And he's got almost the beginning of a smirk on his face. Like he looks like he's about to crack up through the whole movie. He is the master of playing to this thing that's a foot and a half from his face. I remember so much of it was just Arkin repeating what Falk said. Yes. Like saying, flies, these are flies. Flies with beaks. Flies with beaks.

These are flies you're talking about? But I found it comforting, too. And you just mentioned it, that you didn't understand the story yourself. There was nothing to understand. He's basically a CIA guy. Or is he? Or is he? When I wrote it, to me, I could have ended the movie with, you know, like Street Cry and InDesire,

with three guys in white outfits putting people into a wagon and driving them away. That would have been a completely credible ending. I've also heard you say that when you're writing, there's a great pleasure in writing in a room by yourself and cracking yourself up. There is.

And when you came up with a dictator with a senior Wences fetish, you must have been... It's just, oh, that's good. Yeah. And the right guy to play it. You know who I originally wanted? This is good.

Before Libertini ended the scene. When I saw the Wild Bunch, there was this guy who played General Mapache. I know who you mean. Vicious guy. I said, that's my guy. And Hiller told me that he was in prison for double homicide. I guess he would have been good then. So that's when we got to Libertini.

It was fantastic. And he had history. He's a Second City guy, and Allen was a Second City. They must have had shared history. And he tried to break Allen. Allen says on the DVD commentary, he kept trying to destroy me. He kept trying to make me laugh. Well, the scene when he's pouring water into his hand.

Beyond funny. That was almost impossible for anybody in that room not to break up. And how did the serpentine scene come about? I wrote a scene called Serpentine. I said Serpentine. Peter said Serpentine. Now, what happened after that is due to Alan's genius in physical comedy. Because he runs so funny.

Yeah. And then he would run and then run back into danger the same way. That was the perversity. Really wonderful. It was heaven. I'm going to make Gilbert tell you a quick story. David Steinberg was directing Gilbert in a, was it a feature? Oh, in a TV episode of Mad About You.

Tell, Andrew will enjoy the direction he gave you. Well, he, I was supposed to say something to Reiser and then run off. And, you know, Steinberg says, cut, I want you you could you run a little more that's a good one i need you to run more gracefully and i said uh i don't know gracefully and he said well not gracefully but more faster and i said i could run a little faster. And he goes, no, no, not really faster, but not so choppy. And then there's a long pause and he just throws his arms in the air and he goes, can you run less Jewish?

And I knew immediately. You have to stand a little straighter. Yes. Alan's running in the Serpentine is a little Jewish. Yes. But that came from your life. The whole Serpentine thing, there was an origin of the phrase. It was a phrase.

When we used to play football in college, a friend of mine, a hilarious, unfortunately now deceased friend of mine, we'd play three-on-three football. And we'd huddle. Even if it was three people, you'd huddle. And he'd say, serpentine out from the huddle. Now there's three people. You know, it's one thing you have 11 guys going like this, but three Jews

going like this. I never forgot this. That's serpentine out from a huddle and that's what the serpentine is. And it's such a ridiculous word. My wife had not seen The In-Laws.

Shame on her. I showed it to her Saturday night and she says, oh, that's what serpentine means. There's a show called Gilmore Girls

that she loves and there's a serpentine gag in Gilmore Girls which is an in-laws homage. There are lines in the movie that have nothing to do with what's going on in the movie.

That's to me the best comedy. I've never written a joke in my life. What's funny is when... Is that funny? If it's funny in the situation then it's hysterical. Yeah. What about Fox saying, break up some croutons in the soup?

It looks a little greasy. May I try it? All of that. The Price is Right stuff, it's gold. And he has a line in the diner like, is this freeze-dried? Yes. Very good. Very good.

Very good. The CIA stuff. Yeah. The trick is not to get killed. That's the key to the benefit program. Yeah. And I think he's talking about a chicken sandwich. Yes.

Well, that was one ad lib. Yeah. That was an ad lib because they had these great chicken sandwiches. We were shooting in Kronovaka. they had, because they had these great chicken sandwiches. We were shooting in Kronovaca. And Peter starts telling Alan while they're waiting

for action, you know, they made a chicken sandwich. A grande. And Alan says, say that. When we go into action, say that. He said, what do you mean? Say it. That's great. And I remember in the middle of it, Falk goes,

do you take chicken shell? There's so much good stuff in there. I mean, it has to be gratifying. So many years later, this thing you came up with and the privacy of your home. It's beyond gratifying. And to all of us.

Travel the world. When the movie was named to these criterion classes. What an honor. It was better. Alan said, he called me that morning, he said, this is better than an Oscar. It's just, you feel the seventh seal

while strawberries eight and a half. It was. But it's less. And I don't know how many people have told me they saw it the night before their wedding, which is really gratifying. Or it's a movie they remember watching with their father because their father loved it. And they introduced him to it.

That really, that just kills you. That's just so, that's why you do it in the first place. We're all trying to cheat death. So that's why we do it in the first place. I have to tell to cheat death. So that's why we do it in the first place. I have to tell our listeners, too, and if you haven't seen it, shame on you. See it immediately. But also take time to listen to the DVD commentary because there's such gratitude. The four of you are at different stages of your life and your career.

Yes, it was a miracle to all of us that you shared this. A sweetness between all of you. Yeah, absolutely. It's nice. It's sweetness between all of you. Yeah, absolutely. You know. That's nice. It's a great piece of work. Then you did a sequel. Well, not a sequel, but brought them together. Yeah, that was a disaster.

Yeah. Well, I had no last act. And if you don't have a last act, you know, you have nothing. Yeah, it was kind of a takeoff on Strangers on a Train. It was double indemnity. Double indemnity double indemnity I mean and it had a great

half hour and it crumbled I want to ask about So Fine and specifically working with somebody Gilbert worked with and we love on this show

Jack Warden oh yeah because we're talking about character actors outside and you can't think of a better one what a guy yeah

and so funny in that movie he's so funny in that movie. He's so funny. He's just, his face. Yeah. You know, Beatty used him all the time because he's just.

Sure. Sidney Lumet used him all the time. Nobody does that. He told the greatest, he told about Lon Chaney. I mean, nobody had better

showbiz stories than Warden. I'll bet. That he did a studio one with Lon Chaney Jr. They went on the air, and Lon Chaney Jr., and this was TV, was under the impression there was a dress rehearsal. Oh, I know this one. Oh, it's a famous story.

Yeah. Well, when we really do it, I'm going to pick up the chair. The guy, no, no, we're doing it now. Later, when we really do it, he, later, when we really do it, he kept saying, when we really do it. Yeah, that was in Frankenstein. Yeah?

Yeah. Yeah, he was supposed to destroy their whole laboratory and instead, he thought it was a dress rehearsal and he would pick up a chair

and place it down and pick up another thing and place it down. Gilbert has an autograph from Lon Chaney Jr. that he sent him when he was a boy, which is one of his best possessions. Yeah, I heard he was sick, and they gave an address, and I got a little thing of the Wolfman. No, Jack Warden was a gem.

He's such a great guy to have on, just to have around. Was that James Hong? Was he one of the guys hitting Richard Kiel with the palm fronds? Yes. I had James Hong in the... Oh, by the way, just to go back. In the in-laws, you know, Billy and Bing, those two guys. That is another great...

Yeah, yeah. The karate chop. Look on an Arkham's face when he hits him with the karate chop. And he keeps showing him just like the little moments like he keeps showing him

what he's reading in Better Homes and Gardens like he's so interested what about working with Ennio Morricone

on South Fine he was a lovely guy fabulous you did not no and we did some

musician strikes we had to do all the music in Rome, which wasn't so terrible either. I was going to say, you didn't skimp on the talent. No.

Santo Loquasto and... That was Santo's first movie. And more... Really? Yes. It's a little like an Italian sex comedy, like a De Sica movie. It wasn't a De Sica movie.

Right. I mean, that was my aim of music, everything. Right. The doors slamming in the holes. Yeah. Yeah. Almost like something out of Golden Naples or one of those pictures that DeSica used to make.

That was the aim. Very astute of you. Well, I'm a bit of a film nerd. Also, the last scene borrows or an homage from Night of the Opera. Oh, totally. I've borrowed from that a couple of times. Yeah, it's a good place to borrow. Freshman, I borrowed from. Oh, totally. I've borrowed from that a couple of times. Yeah, it's a good place to borrow. And the freshman I borrowed from.

Oh, with Laspari. Rodolfo Laspari. And so fine. Yes. It ends with an opera. That's it. With an opera. And also the backdrop of flying down

and Warden is riding a sandbag like Harpo. Yeah. Yeah. Steal from the best. Or pay tribute to the best. Yeah. I raise my kids on night at the opera. Let's talk about that.

Because it's interesting. And we've talked to a lot of guests about the Marx Brothers. We have Bill Marx is going to come and do a show in a couple of weeks with us. Harpo's son. But we are paramount purists, Gilbert and I. Oh, yeah. We don't so much care as much for the Thalberg. Well, because the music is so awful care as much for the Thalberg. Well, because the music

is so awful. I thought... But Night at the Opera is hysterical. But I thought Night at the Opera just struck me as the beginning

of the end. Well, because you know, Duck Soup was a total bomb. Yeah. So they said we got it, you know. Because, I don't know,

Night at the Opera, it seems like they're under control. And I didn't want them under control. Well, I did a whole chapter in this, We're in the Money. You did. About that very thing. It was called Anarcho-Nihilist Laugh Riots. I traced the Marx Brothers of consequence that Groucho runs a university, and then he's a president.

Yes. And when that bombed, that's it. He can't have any power anymore. Right. So the next movie, he's a fleabag opera impresario, and he never had a position of authority again. They couldn't accept it. Right. What I love with Duck Soup is another film where it doesn't make sense from one scene to the next.

Well, like in mid-scene, he's prosecuting Chico, and then he defends him just because it's a funny joke. Well, what has two floppy ears and weighs 400 pounds? That's irrelevant. That's irrelevant. You make the argument in your book, which I will, again, recommend to our listeners, too, because a lot of our listeners are crazy film books. Well, then they should read We're in the Money immediately. Yeah, We're in the Money, Andrew's book, Depression in America and its films, which also happens to be, as he said, his PhD dissertation. But you make the argument

that the timing, that there's a historical context for why Duck Soup, because it happened one night, which came out the same year, which you, 34, which you compare it to, there was a completely different attitude. Well, it was about healing. Yes. You know, the early, early, before

Roosevelt, you really could have like explosive comedy in which you really didn't know how things were going to come out. Once everybody thought FDR was going to solve everything,

then all movies were, you know, all classes loved each other. Right. You really had some class consciousness before 33. Afterward,

it was just rich people loving poor people and everybody. You know, that was the Capra thing. It's fascinating. Yeah, it really is. Afterward, it was just rich people loving poor people and everybody. You know, that was the Capra thing. It's fascinating. Yeah, it really is.

And yeah, because we like the anarchy of duck soup. And I guess Thalberg felt... Too scary. Yeah, too scary. And the pure insanity, it makes no sense. They're not trying to defend anything. It's no reason for what they're doing. No, it's anarchistic and... You called it

in the book the most fully orchestrated attack on the state to ever reach the American screen, which is, I think, one of the reasons I love it so much. And now you, Frank, you were telling me what, Problem Child and what movie? The Freshman.

Yeah, when The Freshman came out, it was, was it Presumed Innocent? Yeah, we were in a great spot. It was between Presumed Innocent, which took everybody over 40, and Problem Child was already under 40. Leaving us about 800 people between the ages of 19 and 26. Yeah. Well, he'll forgive you. Well, did'll forgive you. Well, did The Problem Child do better than...

Oh, it did great. You know, we'd opened originally like 10 screens in New York and did unbelievable businesses. Let's grow it. Nah, nah, we're going to 1,200 theaters

and then we just... But, you know, thank God for cable and all of that. The movie's had a great life since then. Oh, it's great. And again, as you mentioned before, another Marx Brothers reference. Yeah.

Which did not escape me. Matthew's passport. You threw them in where you could. Where did the idea of Burt Park singing to the Komodo dragon? Another one of these. God presented that to me. That must be just like one of the greatest

great days of your life. First, it was the great, yeah. First of all, just to get, and when I told Marlon and Bert Parks in the movie, he was like, so great. He just, he was. Hilarious.

He just loved it. Hilarious. And then, the guy who Did the music for us Was a guy named Don Was Who later on Yeah sure Bonnie Raitt's album Is a great producer

Was not was Was he the one with Walk the Dinosaur Yes I think so Yeah Yeah Don and David was

Was not was And He was close to Dylan And he played Burt's Maggie's Farm for Dylan and Dylan flipped

he thought it was great and I said now is there any chance oh my god my dream really was to get Marlon and Bert Parks in the same shot

that was already a fulfillment of a dream which I did I said anything you think Dylan would like

sit in on this just for a chorus then I get the three of them in one shot. But he didn't do it. Yeah. Not many movies have Burt Parks and Maximilian Schell. Oh, Maxim's great. And Bruno Kirby.

You said you liked Maximilian Schell. I did. I got along great with him. But my parents were German. I completely understood his perversity. A great actor. And another guy, I think if you went down his IMDb page, you wouldn't find a lot of comedies.

No, but he was a very funny, I mean, unlike Marlon, he genuinely was a funny guy. He was funny. Yeah. I mean, Marlon liked comedy, but he wasn't really funny. Max was.

Max was a devil. He was a devil. What were the things you noticed about Maximilian Schell that made you like him so much? Did you work with him? No. I would love to see Gilbert Gottfried and Maximilian Schell that made you like him so much. Did you work with him? No. I would love to see

Gilbert Gottfried and Maximilian Schell. That would have been a good team. A remake of The Man in the Glass Booth with you, Gilbert. He had a great style.

I had him do these lines which he didn't really understand but he did them so perfectly. He had this one very weird locution which was when Matthew and Frank Whaley show up at his

you know, laboratory. Yes. It is a laboratory. With BD-1. Raising these animals. And he says, Carmine, meaning Carmine said, one boy, he had two.

It's a very odd thing to say. Then he says it two more times. He kept saying, Carmine said, one boy, he had two. The third time he says it like Carmine said, one boy, and he starts laughing like it's the funniest he ever heard. And it just worked. And Frank Wheeler said, you know,

you gotta like this guy. He's like a great guy. I ran into Max on a plane like 10 years later. He said, what the hell was that? I didn't even know

what I was saying. What did that mean? I said, just you did it. It was great. That's great. He was very smooth. He was very smooth. He was very good.

I also found it interesting, too, that Brando loved Raging Bull, which came up in my research. He loved De Niro as the fat Raging Bull. He did. Yeah. He just loved that. Yeah. Tell me, too, and this is something I found in the research, too, because you were talking about It's a Gift, which is one of your favorite comedies. And you were talking about showing movies to your grandchildren.

And you showed one of your grandchildren City Lights. I showed my, I have two grandchildren, one five, one two. So I decided to take a shot at City Lights with my five-year-old, not knowing, you know. And Frisbee comes on, he says, they don't talk? I said, give it a minute. He said, there's no color? I said, give it a minute. And then somebody dumps a bucket of water on Charlie's head,

and he starts screaming, and that's it. And then the boxing match, which is beyond belief. And he was transfixed for an hour and a half he said that went by so fast you know and the blind girl which is the greatest ending of any movie

of all time it'll never be topped I'm trying to explain to him why I'm blubbering at the end of this movie but he just got it he said he just knew

there was something there was something there you know that's gratifying I bring it up because Gilbert exposed his children to black and white movies and classic movies at an early age. The Bride of Frankenstein and The Wolfman and all the Universal stuff. Well, I did the same with my kids.

It was an idea at the opera which my younger son would listen to. Every morning, I picked it up in the Berkshires we'd wake up and I'd hear da da da da da da da da stupid scene with the spaghetti yes 7 o'clock in the morning I'm listening to that did you show Max the Marxist skill

in comedies I know he's become a student of horror classics I mean I used to quiz him and go, okay, who's Frankenstein? And he'd go, Boris Karloff. And then Dracula. How old is he?

Now he's nine. But this is when he was like one or something. I'd quiz him on. You haven't shown him Freaks. Oh, I think he may have seen Bits and Pieces. He's got a past puberty. I mean, Freaks.

The first time I saw Freaks, I was like, hid into my bed and I was like 30. I think he did see it. Oh, my God. He did see it and he saw someone and he said, they look like they're from Freaks. That's Freaks' ass. Unbelievable.

Strange. Talk about a movie that could never, ever be made. Oh, freaks is unbelievable. Yeah. Talk about a movie that could never ever be made. Oh my God, no. Talk about a risk. Holy Moses. What an amazing movie.

You talk about it in the film. You talk about all the films of that period. You talk about King Kong. Todd Browning

was really something as a director. Because with freaks, that's another one even if nothing creepy is happening, it feels creepy. Oh, no.

Yeah. You got a lot of people running around on their hands. Yes. And you know that's not like CGI. Yeah. Yeah. We want to ask you about working with some great character actors, because you talked before about always giving somebody a piece of business.

Yeah, yeah. And I was telling Andrew outside that this is the only podcast in the world that's discussing James Gleeson. Yes! And Fritz Feld and Lionel Atwill. And Misha Auer.

How about Douglas Dumbbell? Douglas Dumbbell. He turns up with the Marx Brothers. He's in the big store. He's in one of them. Day at the Races. He's in Day at the Races. Right. Oh, yes, yes. When he turns up with the Marx Brothers. Oh, he's in the big store. He's in one of them. Day at the Races. He's in the Day at the Races, right. And Lewis Calhoun.

But these names, Jack Warden, Seymour Cassell, Paul Benedict, Bruno Kirby, Fred Gwynn. I love Paul Benedict. Yeah. I mean, tell us a story about any of them. Pat Morita, John Cleese, Red Buttons. These are great names. They are great names. They are great names. I gravitate to those guys because they have no ego, or they keep them well-disguised.

And you pick them because they're so specific, and they know what to do. I mean, Red Buttons is a really talented actor. And terrific. Terrific. Yeah, great performance. Smallific. Yeah, great performance. Small part, but a great performance. It could happen to you. And I always

love that Fritz Feld invented that thing of popping his mouth, slapping his hand to his mouth and making a popping sound, and he built a career on it. Well, you know, Red Buttons was in Cabin to You, and he played opposite a contemporary character, Richard Jenkins.

Richard Jenkins is another good one I forgot to mention. Oh, yes, yes. Absolutely great. Really makes you hate him in that part. Oh, but he's great. With not a lot of screen time. He's also very funny. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this.

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it's never ordinary. At Bet365. Must be 19 or older. Ontario only. Please pay responsibly. If you or someone you know has concerns about gambling, visit connectsontario.ca That's the sound of fried chicken with a spicy history.

Thornton Prince was a ladies man. To get revenge, his girlfriend hid spices in his fried chicken. He loved it so much, he opened Prince's Hot Chicken. Hot chicken in the window. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. This is a question from a listener. Why can't or why don't studios make films like it could happen to you anymore? Well, they do, but they don't know

how I'm going to direct them, so they're no good. No, they don't. Romantic comedies fell into a particular hole. Yeah. And I think it's a lot of casting. I mean, they cast the same people in them over and over again

and you can't take any kind of chances. And, you know, it could happen to you. You had very oddball casting when Bridget and Nick are not your typical

romantic. Sure. But it works. But it works because of that fact. Because they're not your, you know, and Rosie Perez,

they're not your typical triangle. And in addition to loving character actors, we love films about New York. Yes. And that is a film, that's a valentine to New York. Well, we shot every minute in New York, and Caleb Deschanel is a genius DP, shot that. And I don't think there's a more beautiful movie shot in New York than that movie. It's pretty to look at. Oh, it's gorgeous. Yeah. And a little bit of a departure for you, because I think of you as the absurdist guy. No, I don't think there's a more beautiful movie shot in New York than that movie. It's pretty to look at. Oh, it's gorgeous. Yeah.

And a little bit of a departure for you because I think of you as the absurdist guy who's doing the Komodo Dragon. And this is a sentimental. No. My producing partner said, I'm going to send you a script. Don't say anything. That's what he always said. Just read it. Don't say anything.

And I started reading it and I said, I like this. I think it's my affinity for movies of the 40s and things. There was something about this. Jane Anderson was the writer. Yeah. But everybody was white. So I rewrote the movie entirely. I mean, it couldn't be New York.

Sure, of course. It was an all-white movie. Sure. But also, it could have been made in the 40s with Fred McMurray and Gene Arthur. It's a total throwback. Yeah, yeah, totally. Sure. But also, it could have been made in the 40s with Fred McMurray and Gene Arthur. It's a total throwback. Yeah,

yeah, totally. Yeah, and so sweet. Yeah, I really love it. Really sentimental. I really love making that movie.

And he is, you know, Cage is, is underrated. Oh, he's great. You know, you know that he can do

crazy stuff like Moonstruck and Raising Arizona and what you put him through in Honeymoon in Vegas. But I had never seen him play that kind of – I would not think of him. Jimmy Stewart. I had one direction for him. More Jimmy or less Jimmy, you know, depending on his lines.

Yeah. Terrific movie. And in scripties, tell us about Demi Moore getting in shape and naked and everything. I can't tell you about her getting naked. I mean, she was in great shape. She was a maniac about working out. I mean, I wish she'd been less of a maniac, you know, but it was, she took a huge risk because we couldn't find any, nobody, I wasn't going to do like a TNT version of Striptease.

I really loved the book. And I couldn't have people running around with like two-piece bathing suits. You have to be true to that book. And I loved Heisen, who loved the movie. He said, that's it. That's what I wrote. Take it or leave it. And she took a big risk, and she got her butt kicked for it.

But she did it, you know. What was working with Reynolds like, Burt Reynolds? Did you have a positive experience? Huh? On good days, he was great. We have to ask. I mean, he's like, in a way, he's like in City Lights, he's like the drunk in City Lights.

He's either hugging you to death, or he's, who are you? But I worked well with him. I had no problem with him. Yeah, yeah. He was a mashugan of the first one. Another great cast. What about this Peter Boyle scene in Honeymoon in Vegas? Because it's great.

Was he a little bit based on Brando? No. Okay. He always said that, but he wasn't. Okay. That was, again, just some perverse thing. Yeah. I wanted a Hawaiian captain,

a native who was a musical comedy freak. That's just so funny. And the first person we approached was Raymond Burr. Oh, tell us about that. We called up Raymond Burr. Because I like that kind of, you know, odd kind of stunt casting. Who expects Raymond Burr to show up in a comedy

nobody what happened we called obviously within 10 minutes they had no sense of humor so we're not

really singing singing is not like crucial great rear window it's just it was great rear window oh my was great rear window.

Oh, my God. Yeah. But Peter was fabulous. I love Peter. Here's another one from a listener, Andrew LaPasha. What is Andrew's favorite memory of working with George Burns? Just being in a room with him. He was so, first of all, he was so smart.

So funny and so smart. And he was really there it's like some guys you meet and you meet them and the next day you see them and they say the same thing all over again you know it's like they're an animatronic figure from uh disney world he was right there in the moment whatever you're talking about and that's smart must have had stories oh it's just the the the comic intelligence he said the greatest thing we were talking about johnny carson once he said uh when he went when the show went to an hour that was the end of the show for me that's it never it never survived going to an hour that was just another show interesting he said all the the insanity all the magic was in an hour and That was just another show. Interesting. He said all the insanity,

all the magic was in an hour and a half because you didn't know, God, they have so much time to fill, what could happen? And that's when the craziness happens. That's a good point.

Brilliant point. He was like that about everything. He was so smart. Did he tell you about some of those vaudeville acts? You know about Swain's Rats and Cats?

We got a book for you. He told me about why he smoked cheap cigars. Why was that? Because he said, Milton Berle smokes $20 cigars. I said, if I smoke the $20 cigar, I have to fuck it first. You know? He said, I smoke cheap cigars because they never go out. I can't be lighting a cigar in the middle of a routine.

And a cheap cigar, they burn until they fall out of your mouth. Great point. I got one more question, Andrew, and we'll get you out of here because I know you've got to go someplace. We'll have to go someplace. Tell us about the Casablanca remake. And then I'm going to have Gilbert do his Sydney Green Street for you. Because I know you'll appreciate it.

Well, I always had a dream to do like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern is dead with Casablanca. Which is you do Casablanca from the point of view of Sam the piano player. So the movie is about him trying to get his ass out of Casablanca before the Nazis get him.

And you get Eddie or Richie Pryor, somebody played that part. And it would have to be Warner Brothers because that's like the crown jewel, which is why, of course, it never happened. But I thought, what a great movie to cast and have all these legendary things happening in the background. So you get this all-star cast. They each work for like three days. You get Nicholson to play

Bogey. You get Warren and Annette to play Henry and Ingrid Bergman. You get Brando to play Sidney Greenstreet. You get Wally Shawn to play Peter Lorre. It'd be so great.

But of course, it was just one of those beautiful dreams that never happened. Did you write a screenplay? No. I'm not that nuts. Okay. I knew we could never get over it. Okay. What happened with Ottoman Empire, which I asked you about before?

It's a great script. It's locked away somewhere in my vault of dreams. What's going to happen to all these trunk scripts? You're going to donate them to a... I give them to you. Okay. I will read them. You can bind them and use them.

I will read them with great affection. All right, here's the best Peter Lorre you ever heard. Gilbert, want a favor, Andrew? No, it was you who handled it. You and your stupid attempt to buy it. Kevin found out how valuable it was. No wonder he had such an easy time stealing it. You blundering fathead!

Can he have the Lor Laurie part if you ever... Absolutely. That and your David Steinberger are really tremendous. Oh, he's a great mimic. Really? Remember an actor, John MacGyver? Of course.

Go ahead, Gil. My favorite. Everything must be run according to schedule. We will have no slackers in this organization. We have a tight ship that we're running here, and I am the captain of that ship. That's so perverse, but absolutely perfect.

I mean, holding a right mind put to a John MacGyver. It's so great, though. Aldi Gilbert. That's what we do to loosen up the guests. We had Joel Grey in that chair. That's a classic.

And we just kept firing them at him. It was like, what were you doing? Sydney Green Street and it was like one after the other. Oh, my God.

This was fun. Yeah, thanks. It was fun for me. What, you want to plug anything? Anything coming up? Are you writing Honeymoon in Vegas, the musical? Is that still being performed?

Honeymoon in Vegas, the musical, hopefully is opening in London next year. A good experience for you. Wonderful. Good. I loved it. I loved doing it so much. What about the Eisner Project?

Is that... It's, you know, we're pat and hand raising money. You know, the movies now, it's so perverse. You know, you get $1.50 from Kuwait. You get $17 from the Rosado Brothers. Rosado Brothers. Another godfather. I just don't recognize

the business. It's like you see a movie and there's like 95 logos before the movie starts. Schmeckle Productions, Schmeckle Brothers Productions. And then finally at some point

it says Paramount but the movie's half over. You have 45 minutes of logos. So sick. Yeah. Oh, I told you I saw you at Film Forum

and you were also talking about the death of movie theaters which is something that we talk about a lot. There's no movie business anymore. It's so sick. Yeah. Oh, and I told you, I saw you at Film Forum and you were also talking about the death of movie theaters, which is something that we talk about a lot. There's no movie business anymore. That's just heartbreaking. I mean, that's why Spielberg's going bananas about this Netflix thing.

And he's right. The movies, the bigger the screens got at home, movie business is for fallen. As Lillie von Stupp would say. That's something that saddens us, Frank and I. It's very sad. Particularly for comedy.

Yeah. Well, you're talking about the in-laws open water, the Beekmen, and you were talking about these great old theaters that were, I mean, we lost the Ziegfeld. They weren't even great, but they were theaters.

They were theaters. You'd sit together and laugh. Yeah. You'd sit together and laugh, or you'd sit together and get scared together, scream. Absolutely. Did you go see Blazing Saddles with an audience when Mel trotted it out?

Did you go and watch it with a... You mean now? Yeah, recently. It was actually about 10 years ago we did it at Radio City Music Hall. Norman and I did it. Uh-huh. You know, 3,000 people sitting there and they went bananas. And it's going to work 100 years from now in front of an audience.

And because people know it now. It's like, you know, Rigoletto. 3,000 people sitting there, and they went bananas. And it's going to work 100 years from now in front of an audience. Because people know it now. It's like, you know, Rigoletto. They know at some point the guy's going to sing this. So they see the cowboy sitting around the fire, and they're laughing even before anything happens. They know. They just know.

Thanks for doing this. We know you're busy. Thank you. We wanted you for a long time. My pleasure. Our thanks to Norman Steinberg for making this possible. Wherever you are. Norman, we love you. Gil, unless you have another impression.

Unless you want to give him a little bit of Sidney Greenstreet. You are a character, sir. I like talking to a man who likes to talk. I distrust the clues, mouth man. What do we do with this? It's great. How do we market this? There must be a way.

A man doing John MacGyver impressions. See, that's another thing. They used to be out-and-out impressionists. Oh. Yes. I still remember David Frye. Sure, we talk about him all the time. When David Frye did the on-the-water front scene in the back of the car as Johnson and Humphrey.

It was unbelievable. I could have been a contender. I had some money. I could have been somebody. Humphrey was so sad. Yeah. And nobody did a better Nixon. He embodied it.

We had Will Jordan here on this show, and we had Rich Little. We have a fondness for all this old show business. The greatest Ed Sullivan. Oh, sure. Oh, and the greatest Kirk Douglas and Burt Lancaster was Frank Gorshin. Yes, he was very good.

And the best Kirk Douglas was Frank Gorshin. Yes, he was very good. And the best Kirk Douglas was Frank Gorshin. This guy Caliendo is a pretty good impression. He's pretty good. He's pretty damn good. He has a lot of sports guys. Yeah, but no John MacGyver. John MacGyver. There's only one person in the universe.

Well, you'd be surprised. Kids, we're close to that. John MacGyver impressions would get together. You've got a five-year-old grandson. The young crowd. we're close to that. A request of John McGyver oppression to get together. You've got a five-year-old grandson. The young crowd. He's supposed to be John McGyver. A newsletter of John McGyver oppression. The young hip-hop crowd likes John McGyver.

Since you're in the city, come back and play with us sometime. We'll just talk about old movies. We'll just talk about old character actors and your book, and we'll go down to the 30s and through all this stuff. Thanks, guys. This has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my

co-host Frank Santopadre and we've been talking to the only man who witnessed Marlon Brando fucking Richard Pryor. One of the greatest comedy writers and directors, Andrew Bergman. Thank you all.

Thanks, Andrew. He wore a shining star. His job to offer battle to Batman near and far. He conquered fear and he conquered hate. He turned dark night into day. He made his blazing saddle a torch to light the way. torch to light the way. When outlaws ruled the West and fear filled the land, a cry went up for a man with guts to take the West in hand. They needed a man who was brave and true, with justice for all as his aim. Then out of the sun rode a man with a gun, and Bart was his name.

Oh, yes, Bart was his name. He rode a blazing saddle, he wore a shining star. His job to offer battle to Batman near and far. He conquered fear and he conquered hate. He turned dark night into day. He made his blazing saddle A torch to light the way I'm going to go. Frank Ferdarosa. Web and social media is handled by Mike McPadden, Greg Pair, and John Bradley Seals. Special audio contributions by John Beach. Special

thanks to John Fodiatis, John Murray, and Paul Rayburn.