Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 39. Ken Berry

Episode Date: February 22, 2015

Actor, dancer and singer Ken Berry grew up in a small Midwestern town, admiring the musicals of Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly and after winning several local talent contests, he found his way into show business and was soon pulling down an impressive (for the time) $90 a week! Gilbert and Frank caught up with Ken at his Hollywood home to ask about his "two years of recess" on the classic sitcom "F-Troop" and his memories of working alongside comedy greats George Burns, Don Rickles, Carol Burnett and a then (mostly) unknown Steve Martin. Also, Ken reminisces about life as a "day player" and tells us why he had the worst stage act in the history of Vegas. PLUS: "My Mother the Car"! "The Ken Berry 'Wow' Show"! Helen Hayes eats a cheeseburger! Richard Dreyfuss serenades a goldfish! And Leonard Nimoy covers Harry Belafonte! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And if you listen to this podcast, you know that Frank and I are huge fans of like Harvey Korman, Hans Connery, Hunts Hall, Wally Cox, and Jim Backus. And our guest this week worked with all of them. We grew up watching him on shows like F Troop and Mayberry RFD and and of course, the Ken Berry Wow Show. Google it. And enjoy our chat with actor and song and dance man, Ken Berry. The Tie Bar is the leader in men's fashion accessories loved by GQ and celebrities alike. The Tie Bar delivers high quality products at unbeatable prices.

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Visit thetiebar.com slash Gilbert. And use promo code Gilbert50. That's Gilbert50. By the end of February for free shipping on orders of $50 or more. The Tie Bar. Wear your good tie every day. Hi, I'm Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast,

and I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Our guest today is a TV legend, an actor, dancer, and singer who's performed on stage, in feature films, and, of course, in hit television shows like Mayberry RFD and Mama's Family. He worked with icons like Carol Burnett, Dick Van Dyke, Lucille Ball, Helen Hayes, Abbott and Costello, Vincent Price, and Steve Martin. But to us and many of our listeners,

he'll always be the charming and bumbling Captain Wilton Parmenter on F Troop. Please welcome to the show the multi-talented Ken Berry. Hi there. Hi. Are you still cold? Oh, freezing. Where are you, Ken, in the Valley? Yeah, I live up in the North Valley now.

Very nice. I've been up here for years. Well, it's not a great day today, but this is cool for me. It's about 70. Oh, wow. Way to rub it in, Ken. I like to rub it in. I see that.

Now, Ken, first let's start with how you started out. see that. Now, Ken, first let's start with how you started out in the business. Well, I, when I was a kid, I went to my grade school where they had

a fall carnival there every year. And, you know, you did bob for apples or show off hobbies and stuff. And there was a little auditorium, and I went in there just for the heck of it. And there were a bunch of singer-dancers, or mostly tap dancers,

from a dance studio in Rock Island, Illinois. I'm from Moline, Illinois. And I watched it foroline, Illinois. And I watched it for a few minutes and I said, that's it. That's what I want to do. You know, it used to drive me crazy. You know how,

well, at least it happened to me. My adult friends and my parents would always ask you, our kid, you know, what do you want to be when you grow up? I really felt pressured by that. I've got to decide now. Fireman or whatever.

Finally, I knew exactly what I wanted to do and I've never changed my mind. The business changed its mind. I wanted to be in motion picture musicals. That's what I wanted to do. And motion picture musicals died. And you idolized Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly and all those movies. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. And, you know, I never gave it a thought. But, you know, you talk about nearly impossible. You know, you think about all of the people who are great artists in other fields, you know, and the field of athletics, how many great baseball players or basketball players or great singers or whatever. But most people can't name three great dancers from the movies especially. And they stop. I always think of Fred Astaire and Gene Keller and Donald O'Connor in that order,

and then I know a few of them. But then that was the business I was interested in, you know, Dan Daly and Gene Nelson. Oh, sure, Dan Daly. Yeah. Sure, sure. So you're a kid growing up in Illinois. You don't have any family in show business. There's no connections to the business at all.

You basically fall in love with movie musicals, and you decide that's it. That's where I want to be. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. And I didn't know anything about how to go about it and uh today young people really have a have a leg up because they've they've got computers and they can access all sorts of information like for instance the tv academy has a archives sure and they do interviews with a lot of people who have been successful in the business, and they talk about how it started out.

And so you don't have to look around for those people, you know, and hope someday you'll work with them so you can sit and talk to them for an hour, if they would sit there that long, and find out exactly how they did it and what can they recommend. None of that was available back then. Now, when you told your parents you were interested in following the footsteps of Fred Astaire... Literally. Did your parents think you were nuts? No, I was just talking about that just a minute ago. I was so lucky to have the parents that I had.

They were totally supportive for my sister and myself. supportive for my sister and myself. But they were a little cautious because I had started guitar lessons once. I started piano lessons once because there was a piano in the house. And I just gave them up because they were too hard. I had to learn more than four chords on the guitar.

So how does a kid make it all the way from Moline, Illinois to Hollywood? Your first break was winning a local talent competition, do I have that right? Yeah, there was a guy named Horace Hite who started out in the big band business. named Horace Height who started out in the big band business. Later on, he had a big giveaway show on the radio called Pot of Gold. They made a movie about it with Jimmy Stewart. And I got a job on the road. And I went on the road for like a year with Horace Height's Youth Opportunity Program. That's how that all started. What kind of things did you do? What? What kind of things did you do on the road?

Was it singing and dancing? I was in the chorus. I did a featured number with a girl, a song and dance. And we did sketches as well. And the band would come down and do sketches. Some of the guys got a kick out of doing that. I don't suppose you could do that today. I don't know what the union would say about that.

But that's what we did, and we did it for a long time. And I was actually in the show business and i was actually making more money than my father was making unbelievable yeah i was making 90 a week do we have the timing right on this you you you went into the army yeah i went home and i uh i finished high school and then then i went back to california to try to make it a show business. I didn't know where to start, of course. I went back to Moline to wait to get drafted. And so I finally found out that you could volunteer for induction and get it over with faster, you know. So I did that.

I was in for two years. And I kept asking people about getting into special services because i actually was a a professional entertainer right that's right and nobody believed me of course and nobody nobody could help me there either you didn't have any video you didn't have video in those days or film that you could show people to prove you were in show business and to take your word for it you know i i heard when when don rickles was in the army he also spent his whole tour of duty there telling them look i'm a comedian i can entertain they didn't believe him no yeah well it was it was a problem. I came out of the field one night.

When I was in the Army, I had artillery training. And then I went out on bivouac in this artillery outfit. And I did that pretty regularly. Then we came back into the post, and the first sergeant was talking, it was just before retreat, and he said, oh yeah, I was supposed to read this last week,

but I didn't think anybody would be interested. There's a talent contest at the main post tonight, and it turns out to be like 7 o'clock, and now it's 5.30. And I'm dirty. I've been in a convoy. The dust's all over. So I ran into the barracks, and I kept my tap shoes just in case, and I threw a number together.

In an hour? Yeah, down. Wow. The only place where I could do it without scratching the floor was down in the latrine. So I put the summit together in a latrine, and I ran over to the main post and won. And the winner got to go to New York and be on the Arlene Francis Soldier Parade show. Wonderful.

And you got a week in New York, you know, and that alone was gift enough. I didn't need any more than that. But then they called and they wanted me to come and join them in special services in Atlanta, which was Third Army headquarters. So that's how I got into special services. And from then on, no more KP, no more guard duty. With an act that you put together in an hour

and tap dancing in the latrine to practice. Yes. Fantastic. I kept doing that same number forever. That's great. Now, you had an Army Sergeant that helped you write letters.

Oh, yes. That was army sergeant that helped you write letters oh yes that was that was uh sergeant leonard neboy wow that's great so mr spock was your army sergeant yes when i got into special services it was leonard who contacted me i think he pretty much ran that office on that level. I think there was a lieutenant above him and then a captain and then a colonel who came in once in a while. But I think Lenny pretty much ran it. And he was a real doer. He put together a whole show which he directed and wrote a lot of, and we did this big production thing for the, not just for Army personnel, but for the citizens of Atlanta.

Anybody could come. So here's a young Mr. Spock and a young Captain Parmenter doing a show business review in the Army. Yes, yes. We did some Harry Belafonte tunes. So Leonard Nimoy would sing Harry Belafonte tunes? Yes. I can't remember what he did on the show,

but he emceeded to begin with and then introduced people to do their numbers. You know, the wife of one of the guys in the outfit came in, and she was a beautiful singer, and she sang. It was fun. I'm telling you, that was not like being in the Army at all. I bet not. No.

Now, when you were both making your livings in showbiz, did you and Leonard Nimoy ever work together then? No, no. Our paths did cross. You know, when I got out of the service, I knew his wife as well, and they had one child at that time. And so I would go, I'd be invited to dinner, which was nice, and I'd go out there and have dinner with them once in a great while. And then our careers just took us in different directions. Right. Although you both wound up working for Desilu in one way or another, since they

produced Star Trek. That's right. I was under contract to Desilu. Lucy came to see a musical review I was doing in Hollywood called the Billy Barnes Review. And she came backstage and asked if I would like to join them. She was putting together a talent program like the major studios used to have when she was young.

And so I got into that. And it was great because now I'm up to $100 a week. I was making $50 a week at night and then $50 a week in the daytime. And anyway, several of the people who were in that group at that time had some connection to Star Trek. I'm trying to remember the name. Oh, Grace Lee Whitney

was one of them. Oh, Grace Lee Whitney, sure. And Major Barrett. She married Gene Roddenberry. That's right. Now, you're our third guest to be involved, to be discovered by Lucille Ball.

We had one, one, your co-star. Mr. Storch. Yeah, Larry Storch from F Troop. I've heard of him. And Turner Classic movie host, Robert Osborne. Oh, yeah, Bob. Yeah, yeah. He was in that group, too.

Isn't that funny? so you were you acted with robert osborne well what happened is that it it didn't it was it was brand new and lucy really didn't have time to personally oversee it because she was now running the studio. It was her studio. And she and Desi had divorced, and she got the studio. And so she hired people to do it, and they were still kind of feeling their way. You know, we'd go in and we'd work on scenes or we'd work on a number, a musical number, with no particular aim inside, except just doing it.

I guess that's what they did, like at Metro, when they were doing all those wonderful musicals. You know, I've seen clips from movies that there's somebody singing and dancing that you wouldn't even suspect knew how to do that. Clark Gable was one of them. Interesting. And now, and you said you had a lot of rejection in your early years in showbiz, as most people do. Well, you had to make a shift too, Ken,

right? I mean, we should point out that you said at the very beginning of the interview that musicals, the big musicals were dying. So didn't you have to make a shift, say, I think I'm going to be an actor now, as opposed to a song and dance man? Yes. Now, you'd think that anybody with half a brain would know that you have to act if you're going to be a song and dance man in a movie. But I didn't even think about that. I just thought, oh, well well that's something that you do between dance numbers you know and i never took it seriously at all and then i um i got this job

i was going to school on the gi build learning you know stuff that i didn't know um including including acting. And also I wanted to take ballet class. I wanted some solid background as a dancer. I wanted to improve. But then I got a job offer to go to Las Vegas and be in this review with Abbott and Costello. Oh, tell us about that. And, well, we did some familiar, well, I was involved in doing one sketch, I remember, that was from their movie Buck Privates. Sure.

Yeah, where I had to do the military drill and hit Lou on the head. You know, of course, he had a helmet on, but still, he really wanted me to hit him. What was the sketch? I don't remember now, but I remember doing that, and I did a number that was written, special material for the opener, and I did a song and dance. And then I worked in sketches and some, you know,

and musical things here and there. Abbott and Costello, I heard, didn't get along with each other. Well, I don't know how they did earlier in life, but they were really at the end of their association because this was the last time they ever appeared together. This was 1956. How long were you in the act, Ken? I beg your pardon?

How long were you in the act with Abbott and Costello? long were you in the act, Ken? I beg your pardon? How long were you in the act with Abbott and Costello? I think it ran for about three weeks, maybe four weeks, in December of 1956. You did a lot of TV in the 60s, Ken, after this. I mean, you were in things like Dr. Kildare and the Dick Van Dyke Show and No Time for Sergeants, the spinoff of the movie, and Rawhide, and Combat, and Hazel, and you were doing a lot of television. Yeah. I was a day player, though. You know, I was not doing any big parts. Sure.

Now, that one Hazel, that was the biggest job I'd ever had, and that was four days long. So I was on a weekly. That was a big deal for me. And a very pleasant place to work. I've rarely had a bad experience in my life on sets. It was such a nice time that I had. If I knew that I could keep that going,

I could have been a day player all my life now i it's funny because i was uh talking to the this actor friend of mine james caron an old character actor and he said he never understood these uh contract players who complained because he thought being under contract and just being told, OK, you're doing this show or this movie this week was the greatest thing in the world for an actor. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know. And a lot of people did fight that and wanted to get out of those contracts. Yes.

And what it really did for actors is that it made stars out of character actors. People wouldn't even know their names if it hadn't been for those talent programs and those contract players. I don't know if you've ever seen those famous photos. There was some motion picture made of it, too, of all of the stars, or most of the stars that they could get together for a luncheon at MGM. Oh, yes. Oh, sure, yeah. Oh, God, it's really amazing how many really fun character actors there were.

And they had security. They had financial security. It was great. I was telling Gilbert, and I hope I have this right, Ken, because we do a lot of Internet research, and we're both savants about this stuff, so we know a lot of stuff anyway. Idiot savant is the key word here.

Did you do song and dance numbers on stage with Andy Griffith and Jerry Van Dyke, and were they a comedy team at one point? No, they weren't, but they were friends, and I think that they had worked together before. I see. And they just added me to the act. And I went to Las Vegas, and I'm telling you, I was the worst act that ever played Las Vegas. How do you mean that?

I really am. He reminded me of what Wally cox told me about playing las vegas you know he just or playing nightclubs for that matter you know he got he made his big uh splash with um mr peepers sure do you are you familiar oh yeah of course yeah and he told me about the places that he'd worked and one of them he we he stood on the bar while the people were drinking, you know, and they would make comments about his shoes. Why do you say you had a bad act? Oh, I was terrible.

I just, I couldn't do, I couldn't afford to fix it. I couldn't hire anybody. I'd always spent the money, and it was a nightmare. But Jerry Van Dyke, I sat and watched him every night, and he was terrific. I really liked him. Yeah. And Andy was a good friend,

and we were good friends for quite a few years there. And then he moved back to North Carolina. And Jerry Van Dyke, for those who don't know, is Dick Van Dyke's brother. And he starred in the Immortal show, My Mother the Car. Yes. The car was voiced by Ann Southern, who you also worked with. Yes, I did. Yeah.

Yeah. I was on the last year of her show. The Ann Southern show. And we should let the audience know, for those who don't remember it, that My Mother the Car was a show where a guy's mother dies and is reincarnated as a car. Yeah, she was a Studebaker or something. I know I'm misspeaking. And he would talk to his mother, the car.

Yes, I know. Yeah. And they actually got that past somebody. Well, you know, for years that was the infamous punchline, you know, for years, Ken, that show. Well, you know, for years that was the infamous punchline, you know, for years, Ken, that show. Yeah, well, Jerry told me that when they premiered, he was very happy to get a series, of course. Sure. night that they went on the air for the first time, it was the first night that they premiered

this, I think it was called the movie of the week or something, on an opposite channel. And they ran a movie that had been a blockbuster called The Bridge on the River Kwai. Sure. And Jerry said, hell, I was watching that. He wasn't watching his own show. Sure. And Jerry said, hell, I was watching that. He wasn't watching his own show. So when you were doing all that television in the 60s, and I didn't know this either, you worked with George Burns on a show called Wendy and Me? Yeah, George Burns and Connie Stevens. Yeah, we're fans. And that was at Warner Brothers. And that was another really decent job. I got four days on that one, too.

And at that time, Warner Brothers was thinking about getting back into the television business. They had been very big in the television business in really early days, you know, a few years back before that. And Conor Stevens was one of the contract players. You know, they paid their people very little money, but that's the idea. You know, you hope that you make an investment in somebody and they become a star and they make big bucks. And what was George Burns like to work with? Oh, just great. He's a very good, gentle soul.

He was kind of on the quiet side. And I ran into him quite a few times over the years after that. And he was always funny and these are the guys that I idolized growing up people I heard on the radio when I was a kid

and met people like him and Jack Benny and what was Benny like? another favorite he was terrific I've never heard a bad word about him Benny. What was Benny like? Another favorite. He was terrific. I've never heard a bad word about him. Everybody that's done our show

just talks about what a saint he was. Uh-huh. Old Milton Berle, Groucho Marx. You must have had these pinch-me moments, Ken. You're a kid from a small town in Illinois, and now you're working with George Burns

and Milton Berle. And what was Groucho Marx like? Oh, he was great. Pardon me. I'm going to take another swig. What are you drinking, Ken? I wish.

I wish. Palo Vera juice. And anyway, I was married back then in the early 60s, and my wife was always looking for work, and she was on a couple of different game shows, and one of them was Your Life. We should just say, not to interrupt you, but that you were married to the actress Jackie Joseph, who was very popular in the 60s. Yeah, correct.

Worked a lot. Yeah, and she was on the Doris Day show. Yep. She had, that's her best part. And some movies and stuff. Yeah, she worked a lot. Now, we met doing the Billy Barnes review when we were youngsters. Anyway.

She was working with Groucho, you said, on You Bet Your Life. Yeah, she was a contestant on the show, and he just was crazy about her. She looked really good. And he was crazy about her. And she was funny. Jackie's funny. So then somehow or another, they decided to bring her back with her husband,

and so I got to go on the show myself. And that's how we met. Now, I ran into him several times after that. Crowd show. Yeah, parties and stuff. And he just was kind of soft-spoken, and he didn't necessarily try to be funny. But I was starstruck. I can imagine.

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went to the heads of the TV department. At Warner's? Yeah, at Warner's. She knew them well from before. And went to bat for me and said, you ought to take a look at this guy.

You're casting, they were doing about five or so pilots at that time. And one of them was Ensign O'Toole. And that's the one I was interested in because I'm a big fan of Jack Lemons. And I always thought that I could do that kind of work. But they weren't interested in me for that, and so they tested me, and I got the job for F Troop. And not knowing really anything about it until I picked up the script.

And it was really funny. I don't know that I've ever seen, at that point, if I had ever seen a comedy western. I mean, just totally a broad comedy western. It was just such fun.

And it actually, everything worked out. I was the first person cast, so I was reading and doing screen tests with the people who came in reading for parts. I was on camera. I was on camera. I heard that Larry Storch was coming in, and I was a big fan of Larry's. As are we. Yeah, we had him on the podcast. Oh, yes. Yeah, I mentioned that to you when we first called you, Ken. I think he was our third or fourth guest, and we love the man.

Yeah. Oh, me too. Yeah, I just became good friends and socialized together anyway i was i was thrilled because larry was going to be coming in and i was hoping that he would get the part of sergeant o'rourke because that was the only character they the part of uh corporal agon which larry paid played, was not yet written. They just created that for Larry because they didn't want to lose Larry and hire Forrest Tucker, who just was Sergeant O'Rourke. You know, on the page, you envisioned that guy.

And here's this guy. He came in on the set when he was testing, and he's like 6'5 or 6'4 or something like that, and he's a big, burly Irishman. He's just exactly as the writers had depicted him on the page. And I was afraid that Tuck was going to get the job. I knew he was going to get the job, and then I wouldn't get a chance to work with Larry.

But they worked it out, and the rest is history. I've never had a better time in my life. Now, you on that show were like a very klutzy guy, constantly tripping over things and falling. And that's where, I guess, your song and dance experience came in handy. Yeah, I think that had a lot to do with it, because I didn't know I could do that. And it's something that I kind of added when we were doing the series of screen tests, testing the other actors. And I added, as an actor, you know, you're constantly going out to read and you've got to find a way to get a hook when you go in that room and you're going to do a cold reading.

And if you could just find something to pick up, something that's available in the office and do something with it so that they remember it, you know. And so I got to be an actor who liked working with props and stuff. And so I added that to that character. And then they got so that they would write... They wouldn't physically describe in detail the physical comedy that they wanted. They would just say,

a business to be worked out with Ken on the set. That's great. And that's what, you know, Buster Keaton called this physical comedies, these bits, gags. I didn't know that. And that's where the gag writers came in. But it just occupies a lot of space on the page and people kind of lose interest. Their eyes glaze over. When you were doing this,

and it was always funny because it was very graceful. There's that one episode, I don't want to interrupt, where it opens where you're reading a letter and you're walking across the grounds of the fort and there's five or six physical gags because your eyes are on the letter. Do you remember this?

And you just about managed to avoid five or six mishaps. There's a horse that doesn't hit you, and there's a water bucket. Yeah, that was the first time I ever got a lot of advance notice. I think it was when we, that was the opening of the second season. Yeah. And the first color episode. And so I think at some point,

pardon me, they had given me this notice of something that they wanted. They wanted to do a tracking shot, and they wanted to be in the town on the loading dock. They described the scene to me. I got together with the prop guy and asked him if I could get these things out of the property department. and asked him if I could get these things out of the property department. You know, they were the major studios that are that old. They had all kinds of wonderful stuff, you know, as far as pops were concerned, and wardrobe.

And anyway, I put that together, and yeah, it worked out very well. Harvey Korman was the guest star on that episode, I think. Oh, how was Harvey to work with? Oh, he was great. You know, he'd get a little testy once in a while, but then he'd make fun of himself for doing it. Wasn't he the Prussian, the guy with the balloon and the dachshund named Schnitzel? Yeah, and it's Mike Tillman. That's right, right. Yeah, that's right.

Be careful of it, my Schnitzel. He hands Agar and the dog at one point. Now, was this the famous episode of It Is Balloon? It Is Balloon, yes. Every kid used to say that. I'm trying to remember who it is. Is it Agorn or you that winds up in the hot air balloon?

That was Larry. It's Larry. I think I might be in an illusion. What happened? The guy who owned the balloon was a stunt pilot and he owned the balloon was a stunt pilot, and he owned this balloon, and it was tethered so that it wouldn't just keep going up, you know,

and they had to exit the shot, and the pilot had to be down in the gondola controlling the gas flame. It was an out- out of air balloon. And so it actually rose out of the picture, out of frame, but it was tethered, and the place it was tethered, the eye that was attached to the bottom of the gondola was right in the middle. And when that thing reached the end of its travel and the line went taut, the floor in the gondola buckled.

And it was like V-shaped. And Larry and I thought everybody was going to fall out to their deaths. Wow. And Harvey Korman, of course, became world famous from the Carol Burnett show later on. But you, doing all these pratfalls and physical comedy, got a very flattering fan. Yes, that's right. I think I know what you mean. Yeah. This was one of the first times I did a fairly complicated fall. And I come out of the door to my office, and I just turn an ankle.

door to my office and I just I turn an ankle you know kind of rolls under on me and uh and I bang into a pole and go around and I wind up stepping off the porch and then going over the guardrail and um I had talked to the wardrobe guy about putting a flesh-colored elastic band so nobody could see it, so I could keep my hat on when I went over the guardrail and did a cartwheel. And then when I went over and I was upside down, my hat still wanted to come off, so I used one hand to put the hat back on, and one hand on the ground, and I did a cartwheel, and I stood up and walked out of the scene

and into the scene with Larry, and then I did a piece of business with his folded-up folded up cavalry hat and my writing crop. I was a guy who had been away and had met General Custer, and he wanted to be a pattern, and Parmentier wanted to pattern his life after his hero. And it went to his head. He was pompous and everything. and it went to his head. He was pompous and everything.

Anyway, the whole thing is much better on film than I'm describing. It just happened. It's like the accident of my hat coming off and then putting it back on with my other hand. Well, it all evolved. So who was it? Yeah, go ahead. And I got a call one night from Buster Keaton. And Buster was very quiet.

He was very quiet. I mean, he would talk with some of his old buddies. And he loved my wife, and he talked with her fine. But he was kind of on the quiet side with me. And he said, that was a good gag you did last night. And more words than I'd ever heard, I think. But it came from Buster Keaton. And this is Buster Keaton, the silent screen star who was known for brilliant physical comedy.

And pratfalls, yeah. Yeah, he was a heck of a filmmaker, boy. I mean, he did some wonderful stuff. And he was a fan of yours. What did that feel like? What did that feel like?

Well, it was the highest praise. It's like somebody like Fred Astaire saying, that was a good routine you did last night. Gilbert and I love F Troop, Ken. We were talking about some of the cameos, the smaller parts of the guest shots, I should say. Vincent Price, one of Gilbert's favorites.

And Uncle Miltie was on the show playing Wise Owl, I believe. He turned out to be a spy. What was Uncle Miltie like to work with? Well, he had a reputation of being difficult sometimes. He was just fine

when I worked with him. I liked him very much. And I ran into him more often than any other of the old-timers I knew at parties because he just happened to like to get out and socialize, you know. So he was always out there. And Frank warned me not to say anything, but Milton Berle and Forrest Tucker. Uh-oh, watch out, Ken. You know where he's going. Were both rumored to be incredibly well-endowed.

That's what I hear. We were both kind of famous for that. Were you ever actually changing with either one of them? I apologize for him, Ken. He's terrible. You know, he asked Larry Storch the same question, and Larry wouldn't take the bait either. I don't think you can say those things on any medium. No.

What about Rickles? Rickles played bald things on any medium. No. What about Rickles? Rickles played Bald Eagle on the show. Oh, he tickles me to death. You know, I just loved his humor. And I would say over the years, you know, back in the 60s and the late 50s, I did a series of musical reviews with Billy Barnes that Billy Barnes had written, musical lyrics. And anyway, I was working at the Cornette Theater on La Cienega Boulevard in Los Angeles. And he used to be across the street at the Slate Brothers. And that's the first thing, I think that's one of the first things he said to me.

He said, you know, when I was at the Slade Brothers, I'd look across the street and I'd see the marquee and say, come in and see Ken Berry, boy tap dancer. I was there for two years. I never saw anybody go in or come out. So he insulted you upon meeting him. I heard Rickles like on stage and

off would have these like hysterically funny insults. Oh, yeah, he was great. Just as fast as could be, you know. Now, Gilbert didn't know this, and I found this out recently, Ken, that there was a live F Troop review that your manager sold to Harris,

sold them on the idea of you guys doing this? Yeah, we did. And we also did a rodeo in Phoenix. Wow. And in Phoenix. Wow. And then we went ahead and put together a slightly improved act. You know, we're much better as individuals, I think, than we were as a group. But people loved that show a lot.

What was the live F Troop show? Was you, Forrest, Tucker, Larry, and what, Jim Hampton? Jim Hampton. James Hampton. Yeah, and we had an opening number. We hired a choreographer, and they hired a guy to do special material. And then each of us took some time. I didn't have any material to speak of, so I didn't take up too much time on an individual act. But Tuck was a good

raconteur. I'll bet. And he sat and talked. And Larry's brilliant, as far as I'm concerned. I used to love him when he took over for Jackie Gleason. loving when he took over for Jackie Gleason. Well, I don't know how long it lasted in the summertime, but they used to have summer replacement shows that replaced the stars and give them a little rest. And I don't know how many shows they were doing in those days. But anyway, it seemed to me I watched Larry for a long time,

and I became a huge fan of his. Oh, he's the best. He's the best. And you guys got together recently in L.A. and did a little appearance, didn't you? Yeah, it was to honor Larry's career. Yeah. And he was going to close up a shop.

It was going to be his last performance on stage. And they did it at a place where the building was there. When Larry got out of the service, he got out of the Navy, and he came to Los Angeles, and he ran into Desi Arnaz and Lucille Ball, and Desi was working at the Ciro's. Oh, it's now the Comedy Store, yeah. Yeah. Right. And so, and then that all happened just, you know, just in a few minutes.

She just said something about, come by and do your act, and we'll take a look at you. And it began his career. Yeah, Larry was telling us about that. That's so funny. Larry was telling us about that. That's so funny. Now, years later, your old pal Andy Griffith would be leaving his show, The Andy Griffith Show, where he was Sheriff Taylor. And how did you wind up to be on Mayberry RFD?

I was going to be on a special with Carol Burnett. It was her first special before she started her weekly show. And she, this was with Rock Hudson and Frank Gorshin and myself. Wow. Yeah, I think it was called Carol and Company or something like that. And things were not going well with me. I'd finished. F-Tube had been canceled.

I was devastated. And I was trying to find out a way to light a fire under my representatives, and it wasn't working. And so I decided to try to get a personal manager. I thought maybe that would give me some more clout and get me up for some better things. My wife wrote to Dick Link, who was the president of the Personal Managers Association at that time, and asked him to take a look at me doing this special with Carol Burnett. He did, and then he called her and he said that he wanted to represent me.

And so that's how I met Andy, because I met all the clients at one time, you know, at a party. I knew everybody. But Andy was not, I think he was approached about maybe reading me for the part of Sam Jones and Mayberry RFD, the lead. But he knew me from F Troop and they didn't think that was the right way to go. And so they saw everybody else in town, I think, by the time they just, he decided, Andy decided to bring me in and read. And we just hit it off. We both felt the same way about acting, and we had a lot in common. And we got up and we did a scene that we just, that went very well. And you were a widower, right? You were a farmer and a widower?

Yes. Sam Jones? Yes. But in the pilot, the way it was structured, there was also another family. And we shot it that way. There was an another family, and we shot it that way. There was an Italian family. I was supposed to have been overseas in Italy while I was in the Army, my character. And then I had become friends with this Italian guy,

and I offered him to come over and be my hired hand if he wanted to sometime, or if I don't need one, maybe I could help him out. And so he takes me up on it, and he brings his whole family. And that's the pilot that we shot. But the network didn't like that. And so the network went with the familiar things that happened in Mayberry and the familiar characters. They kept a lot of the characters that were already on it, and I'm sure that helped keep the show going.

And then Andy came back, and he did guest shots for the first year and kept the ratings up. And it was doing very well. Yeah, I think it was on for three years, Mayberry RFT. Yeah. So the original cast, Aunt Bea was there, Francis Bavier was there, George Lindsay, who played Goober, was still there. Yeah, and a couple of other people.

Paul Hartman was there. Oh, Paul Hartman and Jack Dodson. He was a fix-it man. Howard Sprague, Jack Dodson. Oh, yeah, Jack was a good friend. Yeah, well, the familiarity of the town and the way people like to visit Mayberry every week, every Monday night. And the way people like to visit Mayberry, you know, every week, every Monday night, you know, that was a habit that people had gotten into, and that helped a lot, too.

So the ratings were really good. I mean, we were number four or something like that the first two years. And then in the third year, there was the first year that they had Monday Night Football. Uh-huh. That hadn't been on before. So we were on opposite that for part of the country. And so that hurt our ratings. But still, we were number 15 that year, and we still got canceled.

Because as somebody pointed out, it was the year that CBS canceled everything with a tree in it. Oh, right, the urban programming. Yeah. Now, you did a strange show, kind of like laughing, and it was called Wow. The Ken Berry Wow Show. Yes.

We're very fond of that show. Oh, thank you. I'm glad to hear somebody. And there were two complete unknowns on that show. I don't know what ever happened to them. Terry Garr and Steve Martin. That's correct, yes. We had done a special, We had done a special, and I got that because I had been on the last Andy Williams show that was on television.

And these producers liked what I had done, what I did in my guest shot. And they decided to do a special. And so from that, the network picked up the show, but only as a summer replacement show. So we only did five shows. And we did five shows in three weeks. And, right, Terry Gar was in it. And Steve Martin. And Carl Gottlieb.

Cheryl Ladd. Oh, yeah, Cheryl Stoppelmore. She was known at that time, right? Soon to become Cheryl Ladd. And Frank and I were talking that one of the other people starring in it was Carl Gottlieb. Oh, I love Carl. Yeah, and he would later write Jaws. And The Jerk.

Yeah, The Jerk with his old pal Steve Martin. Yeah, we discussed that, and I never knew that. Yeah, when I first called Ken, I told him that he had written Jaws, and it was a revelation to Ken. Yeah, I didn't know that. I got to know Carl a little bit in L.A. because he was very involved with the Writers Guild. By the way, he has that wonderful small part in The Jerk, Carl Gottlieb, where he's Iron Ball's McGinty.

Steve Martin tries to kick somebody in the crotch. And there's this loud clang. And, you know, I was watching the Ken Berry Wow Show. By the way, we should tell our listeners that it's available on YouTube. And it's quite surreal, Ken. There's you in an orange jacket and tap shoes. And you're singing about Anna May Wong and Fay Wray. And Steve Martin stands up in the audience and does a comedy bit.

And it's wild. I mean, it's a little like Latin. It has that laugh in and kind of hell's a-poppin', you know, anything can happen at any minute kind of quality. It's very Olsen and Johnson. Olsen and Johnson, yeah. Oh, yes, hell's a-poppin'. Yeah.

It's also... They were great admirers. That's what they did for Andy Williams on his last show. The one that Andy did before that that was on for years was more of a traditional variety show like Perry Como had, you know, back in those days. And in one part of the show that's kind of jaw-dropping is Hitler singing Call Me Irresponsible? Yeah, pretty edgy for 1972, Ken. Yeah, right. You can see it on YouTube

and I urge people to take a look at it because it's really sort of the classic summer replacement show in a way. Yeah, it is. Yeah, Chris Beard and Alan Bly were the producers. The Sonny and Cher guys. Oh yeah.

There's just a couple of them. They're really nuts. We have to get to Mama's family. Yeah. Well that is another case of getting by with a lot of help from my friends. The executive producer on that show was Joe Hamilton, who had been married to Carol Burnett.

And you and Carol went way back. Yeah, way back. And I appeared every year as a guest on the Carol Burnett Show. And I did several specials. And they kept using me. And they used me when nobody else would. I mean, they put me on a variety show. Remember the Gary Moore Show from New York?

Sure. Well, Carol was on that, and she was becoming a star from that. And she saw me in the Billy Barnes Review and talked them into using me as a guest star. You know, I make $50 a week in Hollywood, and I'm suddenly a guest star. It's nice to have friends in high places. Oh, she was so good to me. It was just great. Anyway, we were going someplace.

Oh, you were talking about how you'd done so many Carol Burnett shows that eventually it led to Joe Hamilton and Mama's Family. Oh, and Mama's Family. And, of course, Vicki Lawrence, who had been on the Carol Burnett show for all those years, had this character from this sketch called The Family Sketch on the Carol Burnett show. And it had these characters, Mama and Eunice. Eunice was played by Carol. And anyway, there was a very popular character that, pardon me, that Vicki did, the Mama character.

And so they decided to try it as a series. And so they called me again, you know, lucky me. And we went on the air in about 82, 83, something like that, on the network. And it didn't do that well on the network. But then Joe Hamilton just ran into somebody on the golf course one day and made a deal for syndication after we were canceled. And so we had a break there. But then we went back on the air and almost from day one,

we were the number one new syndicated comedy in television. You know, it was that popular. And didn't you play two parts? I mean, you were Vinton most of the time, but weren't you another character in the first pilot, in the Eunice pilot? You played two different family members. Oh, no,

that was a special that in which Vicki Lawrence's character, Mama, died. And there was a funeral scene. And then they brought her back to life for the

television series special on the special she uh she died no that was the special was entitled Eunice now you yeah on on the on you knew um uh Aunt Bea of course Francis Bavier Francis Bavier now Francis Bavier. Now, I heard she and Andy Griffith never got along. No, they were just from different worlds, pretty much. But they liked each other. Andy was a nose to the grindstone kind of person on the set and in the reading room. He liked to get in on the writing end of it. He liked to spend a lot of time around that table, usually as an actor and working for many years.

I was in and out of there. We'd just read the script, and then they'd figure out what they were going to change after the actors had left. But now I'm sitting in there with Andy, and he's going over the script of the Fine Tooth comb. I mean, he was serious about his work. Very, very serious.

I just want to go back to Ken Berry, Wow Show, just for one second. We're working with Steve Martin, and this is I guess this is a question you've been asked, so forgive me if it's a trite question. Did you have any sense that Steve Martin was going to become Steve Martin? Not a bit.

I knew that he, as well as Carl, they both had jobs on the Smothers Brothers show. Right. As writers. Right. And so in my mind, I'm thinking, oh, these guys are just having a lark, you know, performing. And I thought Steve would go back to work as a writer, and he would stay a writer, and maybe he would perform here and there. Well, after that show went off, it seems like no time at all, he was playing the largest venues and packing them in. Oh, sure.

He was the hottest comic going. He was like a rock star. Within a couple of years. I mean, he was hosting Saturday Night Live maybe three, four years after the fact. Yeah, it's amazing. Can I just read off quickly a bunch of names, some you already talked about, and you'll give us a quick opinion and experience. Tony Randall.

Say that again, please. Tony Randall from The Odd Couple. You did a movie with Tony called Hello Down There, which Gilbert and I love. Oh, God, I love Tony Randall. I just think he's wonderful. And I actually made him laugh

one time. I can't tell the story here, though. You can tell it. You can tell it. Wait, wait. You can tell it. Wait on the radio. No, it's fine. We were in the dressing room, which was attached to the soundstage. We were on the outside, though. The makeup room was

outside. And Tony laughed like nobody I ever saw laughed. He got down on the floor and just howled into the baseboard. He got right down on his foot, and suddenly the door to the soundstage opened, and they ran out. They thought somebody was being killed.

Now, and Ken, there's no story you can't tell on this podcast. This is just recorded for the Internet, so it's not. Oh, no, I can't tell. Oh, all right. But, you know, I've got to say, that movie, that's another surreal piece of work. Tony Randall plays a guy. I guess he's an architect or a scientist who's paid by, and I have this right, he's paid by an ad agency to live underwater,

to live in an underwater home, and you were the rival. And Richard Dreyfuss. A young Richard Dreyfuss. On the drums. Yeah Richard Dreyfuss. A young Richard Dreyfuss. On the drums. Yeah. He was a drummer? He sings a love song to a goldfish. Yeah, he was a young rock star.

Sings a song called Hey Goldfish. Yeah, right. Yeah, and Arnold Stang was in that. Yeah, the cast was incredible. Merv Griffin's in it and Janet Leigh. It was like an acid dream, the whole thing. Now, what about one of our favorites, star of Planet of the Apes most of all, Roddy McDowell.

Who was also in that movie. Oh, yeah. What a nice man he is. He's a good guy. I did another movie. Oh, no, I didn't. No, I'm sorry. I'm mistaken.

No, he was, that was, The Cat from Outer Space was a movie that was done at Disney. Oh, yeah. Yeah, with Hans Conrad. Yeah, and a whole bunch of really fun people to be on the set with. Tell us about Hans Conrad. And a whole bunch of really fun people to be on the set with. Tell us about Hans Conrad. He's a favorite. Hans Conrad, I'm a great fan, and I knew him socially. You know, I ran into him quite a few times.

But I think that's the only time I ever worked with Hans. And Jesse White was also in that movie, too, who Gilbert and I love. Say that again? Jesse White. also in that movie, too, who Gilbert and I love. Say that again? Jesse White. Oh, yeah. Jesse, he was on the Ann Southern show. That's right. You did the Cat from Outer Space with him, too.

Uh-huh. Yeah. And you worked with Helen Hayes. Yes. Yes. I couldn't believe it. I was out of my league. So you did her Herbie rides again with Helen Hayes.

She was fun. My ex-wife came to the set and they got friendly. And my kids were about the same age as her grandkids and took everybody, including Helen, to Disneyland one day. And bought Helen her first McDonald's. Really? Hamburger, yeah. She never went to Disneyland. Wow. So you witnessed the great Helen Hayes eating her first McDonald's hamburger. The first lady of the American theater.

That's right. That's what they called her. She was introduced on one of the radio shows like Lux Radio Theater or something, and it stuck. The first lady of the American theater. And you also worked with Mr. Magoo himself, Jim Backus. Jim Backus. I loved that guy. You talk about people who get out socially.

Yeah, he and his wife, Henny. I used to see them all the time, and I worked on his show, and now they had a schedule. It was syndicated, I'm pretty sure, and an early syndicated show that was on. It wasn't a lot of that in those days. They would start on Monday, show that I was on. There wasn't a lot of that in those days.

They would start on Monday and they would shoot until like Wednesday at lunch and the show was finished and after lunch they would start the next show and go through Friday. everybody was tired.

It's kind of a grueling schedule, especially for a half-hour show. And I'll tell you how long ago it was. He got a huge laugh with this. He walked out of the dressing room one day, and he was just tired. He said, oh, God, there must be an easier way to make $100,000 a year. That's great. That's a great line. Great line.

That puts it all in perspective. And what about Bert Convey? Bert, he was in the Billy Barnes review. Sure. Yeah, Bert Convey. Bert, he was in the Billy Barnes Review. Sure, yeah. And we were social friends, and I thought the world of him.

When we went back to New York with the Billy Barnes Review, then Bert stayed on there. And he had quite a bit of success there. But I think most people know him from his game show. He was a good actor, too. He did a lot of sitcoms, and the poor man passed away at a young age. Yeah. He was talented. People thought of him as a game

show host. He was a good actor. Good with comedy. Very nice guy. And you worked with one of your idols, Donald O'Connor. Oh oh yeah donald hadn't worked in a long time and he was just kind of getting his feet wet again and uh we did a tour of sugar you know it's a musical version of the movie some like it hot oh yeah sure yeah so you spend a lot of time in drag not my character but i mean i do i appear in drag and uh it was you know i didn't know what i was gonna do like i i had that idea

to do it a number as the girl as dressed as the female you know and I went and talked to the guy at Capizio. He used to do my tap shoes. And I had to put together some shoes that looked like it had a heel on it, but it wasn't a real high heel because I was going to try to tap dance it. But that part of it never worked out. It was just, it's funny how, well, both of you know. I mean, there was a time when you could walk on stage just a man obviously dressed as a woman and that would get the hugest laugh and that's the way that show works and you worked with the very funny and very crazy Jonathan Winters.

I did, yes. As a matter of fact, I think I worked with him maybe more than once. I remember doing one show with him. Big pardon? I was going to say, does Aloha Paradise ring a bell? Oh. That's where you work with Jonathan Winters. I found an old TV That's where you work with Jonathan Winters. I found an old TV guide that had you listed with Jonathan Winters. I'll be darned.

And Bill Daly. Yes, Bill Daly. Yeah. I recall that experience. It was over at Universal. Yeah. What was Winters like? I beg your pardon?

What was Jonathan Winters like, Ken? What was Winters like? A big question? What was Jonathan Winters like, Ken? Oh, well, again, I'm a huge fan of his. And he gave me, well, it was the first time I'd ever seen anybody work like that. And Jonathan had his own show for a while at ABC Studios in Hollywood. Was that Jonathan's attic? Yeah, you're right.

Hey, very good. That's a new one on me. Yeah. I walked in there, and I remember Burt Reynolds was there, and Burt went on before I did. And then I went on, and I recall we just fed him lines and he just just went with it and there's something

wonderful and scary about that at the same time you wonder if he's ever going to come back I remember he was brilliant he was just brilliant he was like Robin Williams

or Robin was like him. Well, yeah, Robin worshipped Jonathan Winters. Yeah. And I remember Jonathan's attic was a place made to look like his attic, and he would just walk in and pick up a lampshade or a lawnmower or a broom and make an entire comedy bit. Yeah, he was wonderful. You know, I'm old enough to have seen him on The Tonight Show, you know, back when Jack Parr was doing it. Because Jack Parr was a big fan of his, too.

Well, he was in awe of him, as I recall. I believe I've got that chronologically placed right. I think it was Jack Parr. Anyway, I just marveled at that, how anybody could do that. Ken, did you ever think about writing a book about your Hollywood experiences and all the people you worked with? No. I don't think anybody would buy it.

Oh, come on. It would have made a great memoir. I mean, you worked with every legend. Yeah. That's really the only reason anybody ever talks to me, because I knew somebody. Somebody famous. No, we're fans. Well, this i'm gonna start wrapping up now you've

been great uh this has been gilbert gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host frank santo padre and we've been talking to the great singer dancer actor, actor, and star of TV, stage, and film, Ken Berry. And Ken Berry, I'm proud to say, said that Milton Berle won in a contest against Forrest Tucker where they both dropped their pants. Ken, before we go, we sang some of the F Troop theme with Larry. Do you remember any of it? The end of the Civil War was near when quite accidentally a hero who sneezed abruptly seized retreat and reversed it to victory. That's great.

Rare Indian fights are colorful sights, and nobody takes a licking. Rare pale face and red skin both turn chicken. Okay, Ken, what's the rest? When something and fighting get them down, they know. Their morale. Their morale won't sink. Is that right? Troop.

Won't troop. No, you need to rhyme with troop. They know their morale. Their morale won't troop. I didn't write that. Ken, you're a great sport. As long as we can all relax in town. Yeah, before they resume with a bang and a boom.

Oh, if troop. Yeah. I want to tell you, I'm not going to stretch this out. No, go ahead. About the best time in my adult life. Oh, that's great. No contest. I've heard you refer to it as two years of recess.

Yes, that's it. I couldn't believe how lucky I was. And I heard Forrest Tucker had a temper tantrum when he lost to Milton Berle. Forrest Tucker had a temper tantrum when he lost to Milton Berle. There's just no stopping him when he gets on a roll, Ken. Thanks for doing this. This was a treat for us. Thank you. I enjoyed talking to you guys.

Thank you, Ken. Ken Berry, everybody. Thank you, Ken. Ken Berry. Take care. Bye-bye, buddy. Thank you. Bye.

Ken Berry. Take care. Bye-bye, buddy. Thank you. Bye. This episode was brought to you by the Tie Bar. Visit thetiebar.com slash Gilbert and use promo code Gilbert50 for free shipping on orders of $50 or more. The Tie Bar. Wear your good tie every day. If you like listening to comedy, try watching it on the internet. The folks behind the Sideshow Network have launched a new YouTube channel called Wait For It. It's got interviews with comedians like Reggie Watts,

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