Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 44. Carol Leifer

Episode Date: March 29, 2015

Emmy-nominated writer, producer and comedian Carol Leifer joins Gilbert and Frank to talk about early comedy influences Mickey Katz, Allan Sherman and Vaughn Meader, her salad days at The Comic Strip and Catch a Rising Star and scripting unforgettable "Seinfeld" episodes like "The Rye," "The Lip Reader" and "The Hamptons" (aka "The Ugly Baby.") Also, Carol dates Paul Reiser, recognizes Ron Perlman, compliments Barry Levinson and opens for the Chairman of the Board. PLUS: Lenny Schultz! "Cool Hand Luke"! The return of "Dummy in the Window"! Gilbert meets Lorne Michaels! And Carol (sort of) meets Jack Nicholson! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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So to get tickets or find out more information, go to www.gilbertgodfrey.com. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and today we're going to be talking to an old friend of mine from the comedy club days. And I've known her for years. She's gone on to write seven Oscar telecasts, as well as some classic TV shows that you may have heard of. We laugh about the old days, talked about everyone from Larry Ragland to Frank Sinatra, and I even got to sing a little bit. So enjoy our conversation with comic and writer, Carol Leifer. Spring training is underway, and that can only mean one thing. Baseball season is almost here.

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Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Our guest this week is a comedian, an Emmy-nominated writer of Modern Family, and Emmy-nominated writer of Modern Family, The Larry Sanders Show, Saturday Night Live, and a little obscure show called Seinfeld. She's also written seven Academy Award telecasts and has worked with comedic geniuses like Larry David, Chris Rock, Gary Shandling, Steve Martin, and Gilbert Gottfried. Her career has run the gamut from emceeing at male strip clubs to opening for the legendary Frank Sinatra. Her new book is entitled How to Succeed without really crying lessons from a life in comedy let's welcome to the show our friend the very funny carol leifer thank you thank you all

thank you take your seats thank you welcome carol how's it going guys good thanks for doing it now i think we've met once or twice haven't we oh my god gilbert do you know how far we go back we literally go back you know here's what's so funny about my you know reminiscences of you most of my when i picture you, it's literally by the velvet rope at catch a million times in the late 70s, early 80s. I always think of that's when we spent the most time together. Yeah, it was. And what I remember, too, about those days, like in the early days of trying to get on at the clubs, in the early days of trying to get on at the clubs, was like the emcee would come out and sometimes look around the room and go, Oh, God, we've got a full crowd still, and there's nobody here.

But, you know, when I think back, I didn't even, you know, I forgot about that. Like, at the other clubs, the improv and the comic strip, there were time slots. You were on at 9.50, then at 10.10, then at 10.30. Like a catch. It was just like free-for-all seating frenzy. You know, the emcee would come out and it'd be like, oh, maybe you'd be next or maybe you'd be picked three hours from then. I mean, it was crazy. And who, what, let's, let's talk about some of the people hanging out in the bar with us yes okay well larry david right larry david who you also had to be sure if you were maybe following him you didn't even know if you were following him you had to

be sort of in the room because he would could bolt off the stage at any moment from any rude you know anything perceived as rude or something with the crowd that he didn't like he would just bolt so you had to go on next yeah it's like if if someone was like biting their nails or something it would bother him and he'd start screaming we talked to suzy esmond carol and she said and she said that one night in the club, he was doing a joke about a bungalow and somebody said, what's a bungalow? And he walked off the stage. That is exactly the kind of thing that would have irked Larry. Exactly.

And of course, another unknown comic, Jerry Seinfeld used to be. Yes. Yes. Although I don't remember him being around Catch a Rising Star that much. You know, he was such a comic strip act and identified with that club and really ran the place. I mean, I think what's so funny about, you know, having a long show business career like we all have is that, you know, when I started at the comic strip, when I passed the audition with Paul Reiser and Rich Hall the same night in 1977, and Jerry was the emcee, you know, he was already a star there. I mean, he'd only been doing it a year longer than

us, but he was already like an emcee, which was like a big deal, and could pass people on the auditions. You know, he was really this big mocker, you know, only doing it for a year. But, yeah, he wasn't really at catch as much as the other people that we know. Like, oh, Rita Rudner was also hanging around then, too. And I remember with the comic strip, he had such control over that place that every single comic at the comic strip would their delivery would be like this

was he bothered by your impression you've alluded to that because the past. Yeah, because I used to, like, listen sometimes just through the wall, you could hear it. And I wouldn't even see who was on, but I'd hear, What did Jerry ever find? You've done that impression. Did you ever do that on, well, I'm trying to think. You've done your Jerry impression places, right? Oh, yes. Because it's so spot on.

One time on Howard Stern, we called up his answering machine. And I spoke as his long-lost son for about an hour until he ran out of time. Who else was in the clubs in those days? Who else was sitting around with Larry and Jerry? Who else was in the clubs in those days? Who else was sitting around with Larry and Jerry? Who were the names that people might not know, might not be household names? You mean the people who were big then? Yeah, like Gilbert talked about Larry Raglin for about an hour with Bob Saget.

Yes, Larry Raglin was a very, you know, he was a very big, you know, entertainer. I mean, like, that was great about performing in nightclubs like we did. It wasn't just a comedy club. It was, you know, singers, and Larry was a

singing impressionist, and as Gilbert knows, you know, we all have our tricks of what makes people respond and get big audience reaction and he went up and sang and did all these and before anyone forgets I won't do the entire thing

but today I thought I saw a dummy in the window. In the window. But it was you. What is the dummy in the window song?

Did anybody ever figure out what that meant or what it was about? Was it only known to him? Bob Saget was on this show. And he demanded I sing the entire song which i did i heard him so many times and it would kill every single time right oh and but you know what oh go ahead the the other thing about you know people entertaining at the club was that you know know, Pat Benatar was discovered at Catch Rising Star. And I have this amazing memory of, you know, going online, going in line on a

Monday afternoon to get my number to go on that night at Catch Rising Star. And I remember while we were all sitting there in the hot sun waiting, you know, to get our number, Pat Benatar breezed into the club because she already was, you know, somebody with a name and really on her way to becoming famous. And she just turned to the line and she said, hang in there, guys. It really works. You know, like the whole the whole system, like it worked for me. So I know it can work for, well, maybe one or two of you, you know. But it was like, you know, this whole kind of assembly line of trying to become a comedian and be an entertainer. But, you know, I think that was an interesting time, too, because I think, as we all know, too, it was really good to follow a singer you know because

they kind of got the audience up and in a good place and you didn't have to compete with anybody others you know anybody else's kind of comedic energy or if it matched yours or not you know and I remember Pat back then Pat Beneteau was like you know this cute little lounge singer. She was buttoned down and very conservative. And Rick Newman wound up managing her for a while. Yeah. I think after that. Yeah. Yeah, for a really, really long time.

I mean, she just, like, took off. But then, like, remember, oh, God, Joni. There was Joni Peltz. Joni Peltz. Right, right, right. She used to sing, don't rain on my parade. But it was really, you know, she was like somebody who you just, you know, she captivated the audience.

You really just thought, you know, it was exciting because you were always thinking this person could be the next big thing, you know? Every single singer back then and every single club would sing, exciting because you were always thinking this person could be the next big thing you know every single singer back then and every single club uh would sing you know everyone's everyone has its season everyone has its time It was the time of those kind of songs. Don't cry out loud. A little Melissa Manchester. And I remember there was one singer who would only appear at catch. And I think named Bill Maru.

What was your name? Bill Maru. Oh, Bill. Okay. He became big. But he used to sing, make me laugh and make me cry. Make me live until I die. That's the way, baby, tenderly.

Let me love you forever. I'm so happy that there is someone who'll give me love in return. Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba ba-ba-ba-ba-ba

Oh, God. I don't remember that guy. Did he really, like, you know, sing the entire song and people liked it? Yeah, and that was the middle section. Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. Oh, my God. What about Lenny Schultz? Oh, Lenny Schultz.

Well, I know him, yeah. Yeah, who used to just be, like, nuts. Oh, Lenny Schultz. Well, I know him, yeah. Yeah, who used to just be like nuts. Right, crazy. Didn't he wear a chicken suit, Lenny Schultz? Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah, and didn't people in the audience yell out, go crazy, Lenny? Oh, yes, yes.

And I think one time he told me he used to travel with a midget, and one time he picked the midget up and held him upside down and jerked him off on stage. Great. He's ahead of his time. Oh my god. Well, I would have paid to see that.

So, Carol, tell us about how you started doing it the first time. Because I think, Gilbert, you started at 15. Yeah. So by the time Carol took the stage for the first time, you'd already been at it. Yeah, I was already Georgie Jessel. Well, you know, I didn't know anything about these clubs, these nightclubs, because I was just this college student, and I went to school with Paul

Reiser in upstate New York in Binghamton, and Paul was another city person who knew about these clubs, and he was doing it in high school, because he went to Stuyvesant, and when we went to college, he was like, oh, I like to go to this nightclub, and I like to go on, you know, during the summer, and, you know, these are, you know, there weren't comedy clubs that are like, who's this guy who goes to nightclubs? Like who's this victim? Oh, shows up at nightclubs. Like, what is this? And then I went and I watched him at catch and you know, Paul is such a natural, right? From the beginning, he was so good at it. And I saw this kind of world

of people who like, oh, wow, you want to be a comedian? Well, you know, get a number and go on and you're a comedian. And that, you know, I always tease Paul that if I never met him, I don't know if I would have found that exact route to performing and, and being a comedian. But it, you know, it's what I've always loved about stand-up comedy and continue to, that it's not complicated. It's not like if you want to be an actor, you've got to get an agent, you've got to go to classes, and it's like, ugh. We're all, I think, also impatient people, and I like this immediate route to doing what

you want to do. And as you know, we all know you only get good at doing this by doing it three million times, you know. That's what's so weird about it now, because I always think what got me into the business and what kept me there in those early years was out and out stupidity. there in those early years was out-and-out stupidity. You didn't realize the amount of work and your chance of making it was one in a zillion. Right. Now, Gilbert, I don't even know how did you hear as a 15-year-old about these nightclubs, and was the first one Catch? Yeah, I'm curious myself.

Yeah, oh, Catch hadn't opened yet. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. It's 1942. Yeah, there was like a Chinese laundry there or something. He did stand up on the GI Bill. I was this kid who would just, I would do imitations of actors I saw on TV,

and I was joking around and stuff. And finally someone said to my sister, you know, there's this place, The Bitter End, where they have open mic night. They called it Hoot Nanny Night. Yeah, right. And I went there with my two older sisters on the train, and I just put my name down on the list and then went on, did mainly imitations. Oh, my God. As a 15-year-old? Yeah.

You didn't really have a comedy act. No. And I was doing, like, you know, Humphrey Bogart and Boris Karloff, showing that even then my act was really dated. And it hasn't gotten any more relevant since then. So, wait a minute. Did they introduce you like, oh, here's a kid who wants to come on? Like, come on, kid. Yeah, pretty much.

They would just see the name and they'd go, okay, our next performer is so-and-so. Right. Then, yeah. Then I'd go go out and yeah so it was at the bitter end well and how did it go over the first time that you went on another thing I think I always say it but it's true I I don't know if I did well or if I was too stupid to know I bombed but maybe I was in that much of a daze so i i would do it again after that right you know it's um so funny because the first time i went on a catch i had like the perfect spot like david say was the mc and i went on fifth i still remember that

and i think i'd followed somebody who bombed you, which was always great because it's like it's only going to be better than somebody bombing. Yes. And I went on and, you know, I had a pretty practiced five minutes and it killed. And then I just came off stage. I said to Paul, like, I just thought, like, wow. OK, so, like, I guess I'll be on the Tonight Show like a week from now. I didn't realize, like, the next time I went on, you know, I ate it and it was horrible. And people were, you know, heckling me.

And it was like, oh, it's not at all like this first perfect time. It's so funny that way, because I know with me, it was the same thing. I go on stage, do a great set. And then I, well, that's it. do a great set, and then I, well, that's it. I'm taking over for Charlie Chaplin as the legendary comedian, and then I go on the next night and completely bomb. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Do you remember your first joke, Carol? Was it the Trident gum joke was one of your first jokes? Yes, I had a joke about another one, you know, another commercial that's, you know, nobody would remember now. But, you know, Trident gum, they say that four out of five dentists surveyed recommend sugarless gum. You know, who's this fifth guy? What's he recommending? You know, rock candy and jujubes, you know, or I had always different, you had always different, gargle with maple syrup or whatever. But I have my first five minutes on tape, which is really outrageous that I still have that tape. And, you know, I listen to it now like it's my daughter doing stand-up. But, you know, we know from years of watching Audition Night, you know, if you have something that's pretty practiced and pretty has, you know, one or two okay jokes,

you know, the audience would always be with them because they're always rooting for someone who is halfway sane, you know, and wasn't like a crazy person off the street who came up, you know, and got on audition night. So I always got good feedback right away, as I'm sure you did too, Gilbert, right? Well, sometimes I got great feedback. Other times the audience would scream at me and, like, get their jackets on. Yeah. the audience would scream at me and like get their jackets on yeah that's the first time I saw you Carol you were doing a bit about Bobby Goldsboro and and Richard Harris singing MacArthur Park yes yes I did a lot of um musical uh takeoff things like that um you know I just it really the thing that was so great for me about stand-up

right away was that it was like you could take things that you were telling your friends were funny things and like put them on stage and it's like, oh, and this is what kind of makes up your act. Okay. So, you know, I always tell people who are thinking about going into comedy, like it really should be in your wheelhouse already. You know, this shouldn't be something that you have to really work so hard at that it's something you want to try to make a living at. Like it really needs to be second nature to do this kind of stuff because it really was that kind of thing. And, you know, to watch Paul put his act together at the same time.

I mean, I'm really impressed, you know, Gilbert, that, well, your sisters brought you, but you kind of went out on your own with this at such a young age, you know. I always say to people, like, I don't know if I had been alone, if I would have ever had the courage to go to these clubs without, you know, Paul as my friend there, you know, experiencing this with me. Now, was Paul ever more than just a friend with you? Yes, I dated Paul. Yes, he was my college boyfriend.

You should say that like Loris Leachman in Young Frankenstein. He was my friend. There we go. You came from a funny family, Carol. I mean, to talk a little bit in the book is touching to read about your work. Can you describe Paul Reiser? My friend. There we go. You came from a funny family, Carol. I mean, to talk a little bit in the book is touching to read about your work. Can you describe Paul Reiser in a bit? Oh, God. He's off the track.

Oh, that's good. Oh, yes. Yes. Grab my balls. Your Seinfeld is much better than your Reiser. I could never quite get the riser down. Yeah, I would think he is not easy to get. He's got Jackson going on.

I've never seen anyone do Paul Reiser. It's tough. It's a tough one. No. Yeah. But, you know, I grew up. My parents were comedy freaks. Really, my dad was because he really had wanted to be a comedian.

And so when I grew up, and I think it's really kind of what's sad about kids growing up today is, you know, when I grew up, you were captive to what your parents, to your parents' record player, you know. So I know every word to Fiddler on the Roof as a result. You know, so I know every word to Fiddler on the Roof as a result, but also to, you know, comedy albums like my parents played that 2000 year old man, Carl Reiner, Mel Brooks album. I mean, till it probably was scratched out and we had to get another copy at Corvettes, you know, Corvettes. I had a really good comedy education in the house because they listened to that. They listened to Vaughn Meter, the first family album. Sure, sure. You know, my dad had these Mickey Cats records, you know, who's Jennifer, who's Joel Gray's father who was in vaudeville. You got to work with Jennifer later, and it's like you know.

I did. Boy did boy frank you're on everything oh my god um and mickey would sing how much is that pickle in the window he's one of how much is that did he have a davy crockett any Didn't he parody the famous Davy Crockett song too? Oh, that's right. That's the one we had. I listened to Mickey Katz and Alan Sherman. I wasn't even Jewish.

Yeah, Alan Sherman was giant, really, really. I mean, at the time. His was Hello Mother, Hello Father. My son, the folk singer. But I think we really grew up in a fantastic time because of that. Because now, you know, having a kid of my own, he's not captive at all to what I'm playing in the house. He listens, you know, he's got his own headphones.

He listens to whatever he wants, you know. And I think especially if you grew up with parents with good taste, I look back now and I feel really lucky that I was held captive to their whatever they played in the house. I remember back then TV had like three stations. And it's like you'd watch these shows and you had to watch what was on. Right. shows and they you know you had to watch what was on right and it's like so you'd watch a variety show and in order to see like maybe the rock group or uh ventriloquist you had to sit through the other stuff yeah you realize that a lot of times the other stuff wasn't that bad no and you actually enjoyed it and learned stuff yeah because look at all the great comedians that were on ed sullivan and you had to sit through you know

the guys in tights uh doing their acrobatic stuff from poland you know and there used to be so many old movies on TV. Back then, they weren't even that old. That's the funny thing. The Million Dollar Movie. Yes. Right, right. And I still remember, you know, the theme song from Channel 7.

To listen to that, right? Oh, sure. With the guy and the director in the chair spinning around in the shot. Oh, yes. It was a 4.30 movie. With the late night movie, it was da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. The syncopated clock. Yeah.

And the Channel 7 movie of the week, which I found out years later, was a Burt Bacharach score. I didn't know that. Yeah. Wow. years later was a Burt Bacharach score. I didn't know that. Yeah. Wow. The Million Dollar Movie, I think, was Tara's theme

from Gone with the Wind. Oh, yes. Oh, right. This is what we obsess about in the show every week. There was a news station that used to use the... Cool Hand Luke. Are you thinking of that? Cool Hand Luke thing, yes.

Very good. I remember I saw that Cool Hand Luke once, and I was like, I can't believe they stole the Channel 7 news thing. Now, we work together, among other things, on a TV show. Oh, my God, that's right, The Toast of Manhattan. Yes, which I remember. I remember the song.

Do you remember the song to The Toast of Manhattan? No. Okay. Please, regale me. You don't have to ask. It's the toast of Manhattan, the toast of Manhattan. So this must be Sunday. The toast of Manhattan, the toast of Manhattan.

And here's our own Freddie. Every Sunday, every Sunday with lots and lots of variety it's the toast i mean you remember the theme song from a pilot was an unaired pilot did it air that is outrageous that you remember that now wait a second i remember because it was you know i'm like rain man with dates i remember it was the spring of 1982. And so I was already living out in California. Did they fly you out to be in the coast of Manhattan, Gilbert? They flew me, Paul Reiser, out. And I think we were all staying at like some housing.

Bob Nelson. It was Oakwood. I remember that. Yeah. And yes. And yeah. And I remember too, I was playing a character on this show who was like some showbiz manager.

And they said, well, how do you see him? And I said, well, he's kind of a middle-aged guy. And then the producers and makeup men got together and this middle-aged guy became like a scene out of The Mummy.

I remember that. They put a bald wig on you. I remember that. And all those glue-on prostheses. Right, right, yes. Cheeks and chin and neck. What was the premise of it? And the funny glasses. Right, right, yes. Cheeks and chin and neck. What was the premise of it? And the funny glasses.

Oh, yeah, and it was like I would have to come in like three hours before everyone else. Yeah, yeah. This episode is brought to you by FX's The Bear on Disney+.

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Listen as a chorus of fresh voices moves you, taking you to greater heights. Add your voice to the mix and let fresh answer back with perfect harmony in pure Michigan. Keep it fresh at michigan.org. Now, Carol, in your book, you say that you went right up to Barry Levinson

and you told him that you loved him in high anxiety and he was flattered. Do you think that helped you get the part? Yes, I do. You know, many of the things that I cover, Frank, in my book called How to Succeed in Business Without Really Crying. I'm holding it up. You know, I really do think that so much of, you know, when you're a true fan of comedy like I am, you know, I think it always helps to share your enthusiasm with people because people are people. And now, you know, I've been in the business so long, I've been on the other side where people have auditioned for me.

And when you tell someone that you really like them in a very small, minimal, nothing part in a movie, and you can recite their lines and all that kind of thing, it definitely has an effect on them. I mean, how can it not when you're a fan like that? like that. So I one of my things that I try to tell, you know, I'm really getting fantastic feedback from very young people about my book. And I'm really flattered because I really do share a lot of these kind of things that I think along the way, help you if you want to have not only a career in show business, but in anything and something like that is like, you know, tell people when you like them and stuff you know it's like don't be afraid to do that kind of thing who doesn't love that you know and I it's funny

when you mentioned sitting on the other side of the auditioning process and the times I've done that and watch people audition you get a different perspective because when you're auditioning, you just think the other people there are scumbags making your life difficult. Right, right. Exactly. I know. And when you're on the other side, you really see that the thing that always really sells someone to you is when they don't give a shit, you know, when they show up and they do their work. give a shit, you know, when they show up and they do their work. And it's not that kind of desperation that I know that I always would bring into most auditions, like, you know, this anxiety and like, Oh, God, I really want to get this, you know, and you find that the people who audition

and kind of have it, you know, roll up their back. I talked in my book, actually, about, you know, working at Seinfeld and Bryan Cranston coming in to audition. You know, he played Tim Watley. Oh, the dentist. The dentist on Seinfeld. And, you know, he was such a go-to comedy guy, which is amazing when you think about how talented he is, that he can also play such a dramatic actor so well. But, you know, he would come in and he would know his stuff and he would show up and do it great. And he would leave like, you know, it wasn't that kind of thing with me auditioning where the second I leave, I'm calling my agent like, keep getting feedback. You know, just people who do their work and can let it go, you know.

And what I remember, too, watching people audition and I should really talk. too watching people audition and and i should really talk but um it's like sometimes a person would walk in and go oh hello i'm uh you know joe smith i'm gonna be auditioning for the part of so and so and you go oh you know i like this guy he seems like a nice guy and then when they would act, you know, in quotes. And it's like that's when they'd lose all their warmth and everything that you ever liked about them would stop. Yeah. I love that you went up to Barry Levinson and just told him that you were a fan of something that he wasn't really known for. I mean, it was a small part. He was a writer on the Carol Burnett show.

And he wrote Injustice for All, which I don't think a lot of people was a writer on the Carol Burnett show and right he wrote Injustice for All which I don't think a lot of people know the Pacino movie with oh oh yeah without Valerie Curtin but Jack Warden but he right but he's in high anxiety as this wonderful cameo as the as the bellhop that stabs Mel Brooks with the rolled up newspaper so right I think we forget too that those people that we're talking to are also fans who have probably wanted to do that in their careers to other people and and right and um barry levinson used to be in a comedy team with craig t nelson that's right and rudy deluca rudy deluca who's still around who's also in high anxiety as the guy with the assassin with the metal teeth. And Craig was in our pilot, The Toast in Manhattan, as an actor.

And Rudy was one of the producers. Yes. But that's so funny what you were saying about auditioning. You know, the other thing, too, like that desperation kind of bleeding through. You know, when I've been on the other side and the people have auditioned and then they audition and they go, would you like to see it another way? It's like, yeah, how about outside? I have to tell you. How like to see it another way? It's like, yeah, how about outside? How about you do it out there?

I have to tell just a quick story that I'm inspired by what you're saying, Carol. And I wasn't in the sitcom business very long. I was staffed on a show in L.A. called Lost on Earth that was completely forgettable, except John O'Hurley was on it, Peterman from Seinfeld, and Stacey Galina was on it, who you worked with on All Right Already. Right, exactly, yes. I wrote an episode with my writing partner, and we actually had to sit in on casting, and a gentleman came in. He was an older actor, and he walked into the room, and I jumped up, and I said, oh, Ralph Manza.

Now, he was an obscure, because I'm an idiot savant for this stuff, but he was an obscure character actor that I had recognized from an old episode of Batman from the 60s. And I made this guy's day. He told me nobody had ever recognized him by name in an audition. That's kind of what I liked about living in L.A. You would recognize these people and get to make their day by mentioning their names. He told me he ran home to his wife. He stayed in touch with me for months.

Oh, my God. So he ran home to his wife. He stayed in touch with me for months. Oh, my God. Because he said I was the only person that ever recognized him on hundreds of auditions and ever actually bothered to know his name. So it made me feel good. John O'Hurley, who was Mr. Peterson. Mr. Peterman.

Peterman. He played Mr. Peterman. He was on our show, Short-lived. And I remember I was on an episode of a USA show called Silk Stockings, where we had to trap down a killer, of course, who is for some reason, of course, in a strip club. And we wind up, I'm like fighting with John O'Hurley in the mud wrestling pit. A very nice

man, by the way. And then we shower together. Me and John O'Hurley, Mr. Peterman, saw each other's dicks. Wow. Look at that.

Now we've landed on something. See? But, you know, it can work the other way in recognizing someone. You mean you cannot see someone's dick? I'm sorry. I've moved on from the dick. Okay. So I remember.

I just got that. I was shopping on 8th Street in the village once. I went into, I still use this luggage called the sports sack, okay? So I walk into the sports sack store, and this guy is helping me. And he's very nice, but he guy is helping me and he's very nice, but he's kind of like, he's very kind of like, you know, manly man, like very kind of hairy and kind of, you know, he's helping me. And I'm like, I know this guy from somewhere. Like I know it, I know him.

And then it kind of finally hits me. And I say to him in the sports act, or I said, wait a second, were you in quest for fire? He's really hairy. And thank God it was Ron Perlman, you know, the guy who. Oh, sure. But if you say to someone, were you in Quest for Fire? And the answer is no, I wasn't. That's a very bad question

to ask. That's hilarious. I heard that actor Luis Guzman Oh, Luis Guzman from he's in all the Paul Thomas Anderson movies. He said when they were showing those cavemen commercials people used to come up

to him all the time and go, hey, I love your new commercial. Oh my god. Carol, this is a People used to come up to him all the time and go, hey, I love you, Newt Garmack. Oh, my God. Carol, this is a perfect segue since we're talking about character actors. Oh, wait, what happened? I have to go to the bathroom. Can I pee and come right back? We'll pause it. I cannot hold it anymore.

We'll pause it. We'll pause it and edit it out. All right. Okay, I'll be back in one minute. You bet. Okay, hold on. Okay, I'm back. Okay, now this shows our ages here. Because when we were getting ready to call you on the podcast

i said hey wait i gotta go pee first and i ran and peed and then uh we were talking to you and frank said oh i have to pee and now in the middle of the interview you have to pee proving that none of us are kids. Exactly. Exactly. Which leads me to your first sponsorship should definitely be either Flowmax or Taffeter. Do you know, Carol,

that the first person, the first sponsor that approached us when we launched the show was Squatty Potty? Yeah, it was this, it was basically a plastic box.

I kid you not. That you put your feet up on, that lifts your legs. That makes taking a shit easier, allegedly. I know all about it because, you know, as a huge Howard Stern fan, he raved about it, raves about it, and then they became a sponsor. And I'm sure they're doing so incredibly well because of Howard's endorsement, which also leads me to, I think, the funniest thing. I always laugh, Gilbert, that you do, that they play on the Stern Show constantly is when you do your rabbi with the fake Hebrew. I swear to God, I'd lose it. I'd lose it. That should be the B-side of Dummy in the Window.

Carol, because we were talking about character actors, and we'll move it along, tell us real quickly the Harry Dean Stanton story from the book, which is wonderful. Oh, my God. All right. Well, you know, along the lines of telling people that you are a fan of, that you like their work, complimenting their work because you're a true fan. I'm also a big proponent of, you know, being social. And so many things have happened over my career really because of a connection, meeting someone at a party or some other thing.

It's always good to be out and about, even if it's not naturally in your DNA to be social like that. I really think you have to kind of develop that skill, absolutely, to be in show business. So my partner, Lori, we're skipping over a whole thing. My college boyfriend to my partner, Lori. Welcome back. Now, by partner, this means someone you do who's on first base. Yes. No, she's my law firm partner

i thought it was more like bud abbott when you say your partner yes she's my comedy partner she's kind of really the straight man and i'm really the you know the fall down the clown you know but anyway so my harry dean st you know. But anyway, so my Harry Dean Stanton story. So anyway, she is always saying to me, you know, pushing me, say hello to that person. Oh, they're so-and-so. Go over and say hello. And wonderful things have happened as a result of that momentary thing of,

oh, I don't want to go over. And then you go over and it's, you know, fine. So we're at the Paul Simon concert at the Staples Center in LA. And I have great seats as a result of being with CAA at the time. I mean, I have to really say, if you can ever be with a big agent, do it just for the perks that you can get. And anyway, we're sitting there and Lori's like, Hey, turn around like a few rows behind us. She was there. Harry Dean Stanton.

And I was like, oh, my God. And I turn around and it's Harry Dean Stanton sitting there with Jack Nicholson. And I'm like, oh, my God. And Lori says, go over and say hello. And I'm like, what? Remember you had dinner with him? And it's like, oh, my God, that's right. We went we had gone to the palm restaurant because richard belzer had

invited he's very good friends with harry dean stanton and he invited jim vali and jonathan schmock and dom irera and a bunch of comics uh to eat with harry dean and so you know we had gone to the palm and we had had dinner and it was a, you know, it was like not even just a dinner. It was like a three hour adventure and drinking. And in the middle of the dinner, people started chanting mommy because my comedy friends over the years have started to call me as a nickname mommy. So we were chanting mommy and, you know, drinking and having a great time. And the way it was like, oh, go over and say hello. and having a great time.

And the lawyer was like, oh, go over and say hello. So I muster up the courage and I walk over and I say, excuse me, Harry Dean, how are you? Remember me? It's Carol Leifer. And he just turns to me and very not in a welcoming way, just his head, no, like, no, I don't know you. So then I tried, and I wasn't crazy about this, I tried to kind of jog his memory. I said, remember, we had dinner recently at the Palm,

it was, you know, Richard Belzer invited me, and it was all these comedy guys, and he just turned to me, and he's another really curt and not friendly no so and jack nicholson by the way at this point it's just like a sminks he has the sunglasses on he's not even acknowledging that i'm speaking to harry dean who's sitting right next to him so then i get really desperate because i couldn't turn around and just leave then i'm kind kind of, you know, we counted the entire dinner, like almost to the point of talking about the different breads that were in the bread basket on the table at the pond. Nothing's happening.

I'm going, remember, people were shouting, Mommy, Mommy. Nothing. He's not turning anything. So finally I had to accept defeat because this is getting ridiculous with the hole I was digging that became even bigger by every passing second. So I just kind of wrap it up by going, well, anyway, Harry Dean just thought I'd come over and say hello. So then I do the 180, turning around, the walk of shame. Lori's head is bowed down because she could see that this did not go well. And as I'm walking back 100 yards later in the Staples Center, I hear Harry Dean go,

I remember now. And I waved to him 100 yards away, and that was it. What a character he is. That was it. What a character he is. I remember doing a movie called Jack and the Beanstalk, and in it was Christopher Lloyd, who I've been doing voice work with all these years on Cyberchase. Wait a minute. Which Christopher Lloyd? The director?

Final Tap? Oh, no. Reverend Jenner. Back to the Future. Yeah, Back to the Future. Oh, no. Reverend Jenner. Back to the future. Yeah, back to the future. Oh, right, right, right. Sorry, I'm thinking of, right, Chris Lloyd, the comedy writer. So we were the two main voices on Cyberchase for years.

And then the other person in the movie was Katie Segal from Married with Children. Who I was squeezed into a life raft with in that episode. And so I was happy to see the two of them, and I went over to the two of them. Neither one of them, I mean, you'd think I wandered in off the street. You're not the only one, Carol. Right, right. But is that like the worst moment ever where you go over and you expect a somewhat, you know, even just a polite reception if they don't remember you. Oh, hi, how are you?

Okay, and then, you know, whatever. And it's like the, no, I don't want you. Yeah, no, yes. Can you leave? I was expecting at least even a smirk of acknowledgement. Not a hug or anything, but even just like, oh, like that. You know, like a phony smirk. Yeah.

But nothing. Yeah. No, it's hard. It's hard to brave that. Carol, we'll get to Seinfeld as soon as we can, but let's talk real quickly about Saturday Night Live because neither you or Gilbert had a particularly memorable experience on that show. Right, yes, yes.

You were there for one season, Lauren's first season back in 85? It was Lauren's first season back after Dick Ebersole, yes, handed over the reins again to Lauren. People are always like, what year did you work in? I always kind of call it the weird year because it had the strangest cast ever with

Randy Quaid and Robert Downey Jr. and Joan Cusack and Lovitz and Dennis Miller, Terry Sweeney. It was just, yeah, really. The guy from Breakfast Club.

Anthony Michael Hall. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was such, you know, what I remember so clearly about it, too, is that, you know, at the end of the season, you know, SNL is this institution

and 40 years and all of that and you know that at the end of that year the show almost got canceled it was that poorly received you know so um it was really you know i'm sure like you gilbert i feel like i would never trade my year there for for. I mean, because it is, you know, to have worked on this show, I still, you know, cherish having gotten the opportunity, even though it was not an easy gig for me. But, you know, it's really wild to look back on, especially, you know, when I think back of thinking of writing, because I saw, you know, A. Whitney Brown when I was back at the 40th reunion and stuff.

And, you know, people smoking in the offices and, you know, not having computers to write your sketches on. You'd write them in longhand on a yellow legal pad and hand it over to someone to write it up for you. I mean, you know, it's just wild. someone to write it up for you. I mean, you know, it's just wild. And it's so funny because for years I felt like this sense of shame, like people knew me from this horrible. But after a while I totally forget and I get it mixed up like, you know, like cavemen and dinosaurs.

Or Luis Guzman in cavemen. Oh, yes, yes. What were you, 11 episodes? Yeah, yeah, that was pretty much it. And what's funny is I went to the Saturday Night Live 40th celebration. Yes, I saw you there, yes. And what was interesting, it was the first time I ever met Lorne Michaels. It was the first time I ever met Lorne Michaels.

And he shook my hand, and I was kind of surprised that he was shaking my hand. He said, well, you're a brick in this wall. Oh, that's kind of nice. Yeah. Wow, that's really amazing. I mean, I remember when you got SNL. That was really wild to, you know, have scored that gig, especially because, you know, Gilbert, we really got to think about. They didn't cast a lot of stand-ups.

I mean, they put you and Eddie in the cast, well, and Pisco, too, but then they kind of, like, got rid of the stand-ups, and they didn't kind of really come back until, until like Dana Carvey in that year, you know? Yeah, it was a very – and with me, it was so awful. It was kind of like if in the middle of Beatlemania, they got rid of John, Paul, George, and Ringo and brought in four other schmucks. They hated us from the start. They did. far out there schmucks they hated us from the start they did they they did but you know um it was great at the 40th to see and i um should have taken a picture of it when you and eddie

and tim kazarensky were all together and uh kind of hugging each other it was really really nice because you could really see as an outsider that you know when you share a you know an experience like that you really are kind of bonded in a way with someone that you you know nobody else knows about and you could see it all these years later how when you guys were together how familiar it was and and you see people you didn't work with, and you still have that connection. So it's all a fraternity that you're all in, really. Yes, absolutely. Did you get anything on, Carol?

I know you had a rough year. Did you get any sketches on? You know what, Frank? It's really wild to look back now because I did this. They did a video shoot with a few of the writers, and I did it with Sarah Silverman and a bunch of other people. And Sarah was saying, you know, she really only had like one sketch on that she got on. And, you know, other writers like Larry David, who said he never got anything on.

Amazing. I really got a bunch of stuff on, you know, like things that I wrote with other people like that black girl. Was that with Denitra Vance? Yeah, with Denitra Vance girl uh was that with that girl yeah with denise yeah i remember that i you know i got a sketch on with um uh tom hanks and one with um angelica houston and dudley moore and i look back now it's like i can't believe i got fired like i gotta let the shit on and and let's see all the people like Like, I was fired from Saturday Night Live. But the other people, like Sarah Silverman.

Dave Attell. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Oh, and Norm MacDonald. Larry David. Sure. Damon Wayans.

Damon Wayans. Yep. Lots of good people. Oh, I was there that year when he got fired too because i think he got mad and he was doing some sketches a cop and he for no reason at all played it as gay yes yeah it wasn't really a good thing to do if you were looking to get fired that was the kind of thing one would actually find in the handbook of how to get fired that was the kind of thing one would actually find in the handbook of how to get fired so you're a writer on a show it's it's an iconic show it's a kind of an up and down year you get a

lot of stuff on but oddly enough you're let go and then you go back to stand up carol and then i i went back to stand up yeah and actually that was um was, I wasn't too upset about not going back to SNL because, you know, when you're on the outs there, when you're kind of not in the main club of whatever year you're there, it's a little bit of a relief because, you know, when you're in with the in crowd, it's great. But when you're not, you really want to get as far away from there as you can. So it was a good time for me to concentrate on doing stand-up then.

But I'm still going back to the 40th. And I am really proud of the writers that I came up with because, you know, George Meyer was a writer when I was there. Terrific. Terrific. You know, did so much Simpsons and great work and John Swartzwelder and Jack Handy and Don Novello. And, you know, I always tease him because Robert Smigel was a, they called it an apprentice writer that year, and I would always tease him that that meant that he needed to wear goggles, safety goggles, whenever he was in the writer's room. But, you know, the guys from Kids in the Hall were writers my year. Oh, Bruce was there, yeah.

Yeah, Bruce McCullough. So it was really amazing to really work with that caliber of people that early in my career. I just worked with Schmeichel recently on that Night of Too Many Stars. Oh, right. Was that last night? Did that air? Yeah. And he was there and his puppet was there. We have to get Robert on the show. Triumph the dog. So, Carrie, you went back to stand-up.

And help us with the chronology. When did Larry and Jerry call? That was in 93. So that was a few years later. So that was a few years later. You know, I got the luckiest break of my life in that Seinfeld, when Larry and Jerry were hiring writers for the show, they never wanted anybody who had written on sitcoms before.

They really wanted people who had never done it, because as far as Larry was concerned, if you'd written sitcoms already, you were kind of corrupted by the system and, you know, had a lot of bad rules and guidebooks in your head. So they asked me to, you know, come on the writing staff of Seinfeld. It was amazing because it was also kind of right on the cusp, too, of it becoming super successful. So it wasn't, you know, it was an amazing, amazing opportunity. But the show was still kind of finding its legs. You know, it wasn't the blockbuster yet that it became probably two years later.

So, you know, it was amazing. Was season five when you came on? Yes. It's funny to look at the early Seinfeld shows. The Seinfeld Chronicles. Yeah. At the very beginning. And you see that the characters weren't down yet.

Right. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, I think what is so brilliant about the show, and, you know, everything to what is so brilliant about the show, and, you know, everything to do with the show came from Larry and Jerry. I mean, they were really, you know, the crux of every episode and every script. You know, every script that people see on the air went through their, you know, they did a draft of every script. But I think what's amazing when you look back on it now is even at the beginning when I wasn't there,

but the beginning where the ratings were not good at all, I mean, the show would have been gone if it aired now. They wouldn't give it the time to breathe and grow like they did back then just because they did. It would never happen now. like they did back then just because they did. It would never happen now. So it really is kind of a comet to me in that way because I don't think it could even have existed now. And I remember what was so funny is like knowing Larry from the clubs is when I'd watch Seinfeld and I'd go,

oh, I remember him talking about that happening to him. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I remember him talking about that happening. Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. Right. Like talking about at SNL when he couldn't take it anymore as a writer and left a message on Dick Ebersole's answering machine. You know, saying that he wanted to, well, telling him he wanted to quit

and then going in on Monday and just trying to ignore that he had quit on Friday. Yeah, he had thought about it. He was a big shot and he told him off and he said, I'll never work with you again. Then he thought, oh, my God, I have a job. I can walk to work. And that became an episode where George does the same thing. Right. Right.

And I remember there was an episode that got changed to Elaine, but where Elaine has a boyfriend she can't stand from out of town. And she has to get him to the airport. And the alarm didn't go off. So she rushes him out and speeds her car to the airport to get rid of him. And I remember Larry one time talking to him and goes, one time I was with this girl, and I had enough, and she was leaving the next day, and had a driver to the airport and uh the alarm

didn't come off and uh so i was like hurry hurry hurry let's uh you'll pack in the car that well they encouraged all of you guys all the writers to write from to draw from from your own lives and as you did with your your classic episodes well it really was a great lesson um in learning how to you know be in your life but also always one step out of your life to try to see the funny situations and, you know, make them comedy. Because, you know, Larry and Jerry were so good at that, of just using real things. I mean, I knew if I went into pitch that if it was something

that had happened in real life and I could point to it as a real story, it definitely had a leg up, you know? Has Tim's got a treat for you? Well, actually, a treat in a treat. Get ready for Tim's Dream Cookies, now in three delicious flavors, Double Stuff Oreo, Caramel, and Reese's Minis. They're soft, chewy, and baked fresh daily. Try one today at participating restaurants in Canada for a limited time.

Now, how was it getting stuff submitted there compared to Saturday Night Live? Well, it was really different because, as you know, Gilbert, from SNL, so much of whether your sketch gets on is determined at the read-through, you know, where everybody writes their sketches, and then Wednesday afternoon, all of the cast is around a giant table with Lauren and whoever the guest host is, and then all the sketches are read aloud, and whatever really works there usually gets on or has a good shot of getting on, and if you read a sketch and it dies, it probably won't, you know, be on that week. So, so much of it had to do with the read-through.

You know, as opposed to Seinfeld, we didn't have a classic writer's room, per se, like on other sitcoms I've worked on. Seinfeld, it was really you going into Larry and Jerry's office, you know, setting a time to pitch your stories. It had to be one or two sentences, pretty concise, that would make them laugh right away. We should say that their desks faced each other. They were in the same office. Yes, their desks faced each other.

And a lot of times I would go in and it wasn't you know definitely intimidating and you know i'd pitch stuff and if you know larry was uh impatient or unhappy you know he'd kind of say i don't know i could hear that idea on another show that was like a big put down you know i could see that on another sitcom or whatever but you know if you said something like elaine thinks the korean manicurist are talking about her behind her back in Korean, you know, that would be something that he'd leap out of his seat and go, yes, yes, we're doing that. That's a show. You know, that's a show. And that kind of thing that happened to me in New York all the time. or saying George brings a deaf woman with him to a party to lip read his ex-girlfriend's lips from across the room to find out why she broke up with him.

You know, that was right in his wheelhouse, Jerry's wheelhouse. Yes, that's it. We're doing that, you know. And then you knew that you were kind of on your way to developing a script for the show. So it was really, you know, where SNL was really down to the table read of these kind of things. You know, Seinfeld was all about if Larry and Jerry signed off on an idea that you had, then you knew you could go off and start to write your script, you know, but if you didn't have that, if you didn't have the funny idea right away, you were never going to get a script, you know. And the lip, was it the lip reader, the episode where Elaine pretends she's deaf

so that she doesn't have to talk to the limo driver? Yes, yes. That also came from your life? Right, and this will be, you know, perfect to tell you guys because as, you know, fellow comics, you know, that idea came from all my years on the road. I always had, you know, a car service guy take me to the airport. And it would always be at like, it's six in the morning when you just rolled out of bed.

And I'd get chatty Kathy, you know, who couldn't stop with like, how's it going this morning? What are you for you? Who wouldn't stop talking and whatever signals I would, you know, give to like, would you please shut the fuck up and drive? He would never get it. And so signals I would, you know, give to like, would you please shut the fuck up and describe, he would never get it. And so when I pitched that, you know, it was great because, you know, Elaine pretends she's deaf so that the car service guy won't talk to her. I mean, obviously, I never did that, but it's something that I always wanted to do. wanted to do. Now, when you were submitting material to Jerry and Larry, did Jerry ever say to you, no, that's a terrible idea. You suck. And I never want to talk to you again. You have no talent. You know, it was a little subtler than that. You know, it was a little subtler than that.

It was really more if you could, you know, if they weren't responding to your ideas and you could just kind of feel like, oh, I've been in this office a long time and it's getting near lunch and this is not good. Nothing's landing. You know, I write a lot in my book about how Jerry and Larry, for two guys who also were just stand-up comics before that experience, they were also remarkably good bosses. I mean, they really knew how to run the show well. They were very diplomatic. more of the boss in terms of show things while Jerry was on stage rehearsing was he was always a straight shooter. And you know, his personality is very much like that. But he was always really diplomatic. Like, there were so many actors who came on the show, who would be at the read through and they weren't landing at the read through, and they had to be fired. And you know, most show runners are just big pussies, and they get someone else to do it. And, you know, most showrunners are just big pussies and they get someone else to do it and the person is gone and it's terrible. And Larry was always

the kind of guy, like if they had a firestorm, he would insist on it being him, you know, just to be a nice guy and just say, hey, look, it's not anything personal. It's just kind of not working. I'll try to get you back on the show with something else and i always really admired that about him you forget that gilbert worked with larry on a on a pilot oh my god norman's corner yes and and to show you how bad this show we all forgot really yeah how how how awful this show turned out is that when they were pitching Seinfeld, and I think Seinfeld said, well, it's going to be written by Larry David. And they said, isn't he the one that wrote that piece of shit for Gilbert Gottfried? Oh, my God.

Now, wait a second. What network was that for? It was, I think, Showtime or something. Wasn't it Cinemax? Oh, Cinemax. Cinemax. Wasn't it Cinemax? You know better than I do.

Was it a Cinemax comedy experiment? Yes, it was one of those experiments. Was there nudity involved in it? There was some nudity. They would call a backdoor pilot. Talk about a double meaning. Gilbert wore a merkin. I remember it.

Oh, my God, that's right. He played a Manhattan newsstand owner. That was the premise. Yes, yes. And you shot the pilot or you didn't shoot it? Oh, we shot it. But like I said, they called it a backdoor pilot, meaning it was a special that was like secretly like we'd like it to be a show.

Oh, my God. And who directed it? Do you remember? Oh, God. I forget the director's name. Robert Wise, I think. Oh, yeah. No, I'm kidding.

I'm kidding. I think David Lee. David Lee. Yeah. Carol, let's... Ang Lee. It was Ang Lee. Let's talk for just a second about a couple of the great iconic episodes.

You wrote The Understudy with Bette Midler, and we talked about The Lip Reader, and my personal favorite episode, I think, the Hamptons episode with the ugly baby. The Hamptons, the ugly baby, yes, which was written with the great Peter Millman. Yeah, that really... I think

the ugly baby idea, pretty positive, was Peter Millman's. And then the shrinkage thing came up. I think that was a Larry David thing. So, you know, what was so great about working on the show was all of the, you know, the synergy of so many creative, amazing people that,

you know, every episode became 10 times more than it started out to be because of all these amazing writers that I worked with. So, yeah, you know, I look back on the Hamptons and I always laugh, particularly at one line, because, you know, Larry especially never liked pop culture references. I mean, I knew that if you put that in a script, it would pretty much be guaranteed to be gone in the final draft. And I remember Julia came out wearing this big, blousy, you know, unattractive sundress. And Jerry has this line, you know, he says, and then there's Maude. I remember that. Yeah. And I was so happy that Larry never took that out because, you know, normally it would have gone.

But whenever I watched the episode, I'm always like, you know, thank you, Larry, for keeping that line. It's so funny because so many things are. I mean, well, look at Murphy Brown. You couldn't watch one episode of that now. Yeah, yeah. It was just constant pop culture references. And then, oh, I remember they did – actually, and it's funny because it's Seinfeld. remember they did actually and it's funny because it's seinfeld they redid the sunshine boys with peter falk and woody allen yeah and they threw in a a reference where he goes well i'm gonna go home and watch seinfeld i love it oh i don't really yeah i don't remember that wow there's a scene

of the fortune cookie the billy wilder movie when movie, when the guy that's spying on Jack Lemmon says, okay, I'm going to go home and watch Batman, which was a big cultural reference in 1966. And they redid the man that came to dinner for TV, and they threw in a reference to Dan Quayle. Oh. Yeah. So like a year or two later, people are going, what is that? So Carol,

tell us your favorite Seinfeld episode that you wrote and your favorite episode that you didn't write, because I'm curious. Well, I really probably would have to say The Rye is probably my favorite Seinfeld episode.

You know, mostly because, too, when we shot it, they'd never spent, I think they spent a million dollars on the episode, which probably in terms of TV production today is not a lot, but it was like a big deal back then. And we shot it at Paramount lot to do the snow and the handsome cab and all that kind of stuff. The Beef-O-Rino. The Beef-O-Rino, which I have a couple of stories about that because it has a big storyline in the rye about what was then called Price Club, which is now Costco, but I'm still a devoted fan.

I love it. And about how you buy too much, and you're always left with so much left over. And it always made me laugh, that giant can you could buy of beefaroni. And then we wanted to use that with Kramer Feeds, the beefaroni to his horse, Rusty, which is my horse at camp. But anyway, so Chef Boyardee wouldn't let us use beefaroni. So they made us change it to beefarino. Hilarious. They gave me that big can as a souvenir when we wrapped shooting, which I kept so proudly until I moved. And a mover thought it was an empty can and threw it out.

It broke my heart to read that in the book. I know. That was really a super drag. But I would say that that's probably my favorite episode. And I know it's one of Jerry's favorites. So that means a lot to me. And I think of the ones that I that I didn't write that I admire. I mean, anyone in Emmy for it, I think deservedly so, you know, Larry writing that the contest, you know, the masturbation episode. I mean, you know, there's nothing as brilliant as that.

It holds up today like anything else. And, you know, it was so edgy and so amazing when that aired. And that to this day, you know, it still never says masturbation in it, the word masturbation or anything like that. But it's so clever and so real. And it really, I think, summarizes the brilliance of Larry David. I mean, I really can't say enough about how much I respect his talent and what a great person he is. That shot of Kramer coming in and just slamming the money down and saying, I'm out.

Just absolutely wonderful. My memory of that is that that was the episode that sort of i could be wrong about this i mean the show was a ascendant but that that was the episode that that really turned it up a notch yeah i you know i wasn't there then but i think it was kind of cumulative i remember jerry sending me you know i would emails, but they weren't around then, you know, just saying, like, I've noticed people in the Village Voice are talking about Seinfeld, like, in comments, you know, like, it still had people that were taking to it and were seeing, you know, that it was different and funny, even though it wasn't tearing up the ratings.

People were liking it. And I think, I said it earlier, but it's amazing that the show stayed on because if it were today, it really would have gotten a quick chance and then it'd be out. Well, it's kind of like with movies that change too. There used to be these little movies that would be out for a certain amount of weeks,

and then they would build and become blockbusters. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now in the opening night, they go, okay, didn't make any money, get rid of it. Or they don't even get released at all. They go to DVD or they go to now, I guess, Netflix. Yeah. And then you went from Seinfeld to another television show that Gilbert and I love, The Larry Sanders Show.

And that was a different experience altogether because, if I'm not mistaken, it was your first writer's room? Yeah, it was my first kind of classic sitcom writer's room. And it's really the way that I kind of still like to work today where writers kind of write their own drafts and then that goes to the writers room and then everybody kind of rewrites it together, you know, after a table read, which is always fair, like what worked and what didn't work. And I think that, you know, really showed me kind of the style of sitcom writing that I like now.

I mean, you know, it's funny when I've worked on sitcoms, you can always tell the comics who became writers versus the writer writers. Because if we're filming live and a joke doesn't work, you know, all the comics or writers are immediately like, well, great. We'll come up with a few different, you know, choices because it didn't work, you know, where writers can be more precious about it. Like, oh, well, we'll sweeten it, you know, in post and all that kind of thing. Whereas the comics are like, if it didn't work with the audience, you know, we're not keeping it. We're going to come up with something else. I experience that when I'm on a show and they'll have a joke in the script and I say it and it doesn't get a laugh and they go well you can make it funny

yeah and it's like I kind of already did that I tried and it didn't work so yeah what's the plan being can you tell us real quickly about opening for Frank Sinatra, Carol? Oh, my God, opening for Frank Sinatra. That really, you know, as long as I've been around, and I can say that because, Gilbert, you might be the person who's been around longer than me. You know, that still is like the high point of all my years in show business, because, you know, I really, I was having a really tough time during that, you know, as a standup,

I was getting really shitty gigs. I wasn't doing great. I got this big come on by this new agent who was like, I'm going to get you three times the money you're making now, much better clubs, you know, come over and work with me, and it's going to be blue skies, you know, the whole song and dance. And, like, cut to six months later, and he's literally booking me at ground round comedy nights on the Jersey Turnpike. Like, it was horrible.

And, you know, you're trying to do comedy, and you're hearing squashed peanut shells on the floor. And I kept saying to this guy, like, where are my great gigs? Where's all the stuff you promised me? And he was like, I'm working on Frank, you know? And I'm like, Frank? Like, Frank Stallone? Because, like, what is going on here?

And lo and behold, like, I get a call. I was working on a cruise ship. And, you know, in those days, if you were working on a cruise ship, you know, one of your parents croaked or your house burnt down. And it was my agent going, I got you opening for Frank Sinatra. He had some weird, strange connection to Jilly Rizzo, who was, you know, Frank Sinatra's manager. And I got to open for him. And it really is such a highlight of my life because not only was the crowd amazing and great, but he was such a gentleman.

Frank Sinatra was like the classiest, nicest guy. He would bring me out for a bow after my set, which, you know, at that time, a lot of celebrities wouldn't even put their opening act on the marquee. I mean, I know this happened to Bill Maher. You know, I won't say who the celebrity was, but her talent is supreme. Oh, okay. So there you go. You had a good experience. And I'll just throw out two names and then we'll let you go. And that's you worked with Bob Hope and Milton Berle. Yes, I did. Bob Hope had one of his young comedian specials on NBC.

And he put me on, you know, I was on the show, but it was very sad because it was really, you know, a little past, I think, where Bob Hope should have been performing because they said, come up with something at the end that, you know, a line where a joke you can do with Bob. So at the time I was doing a joke that was like, you know, things are growing great. I just made a three picture deal, you know,

two eight by tens and one wallet size, you know, a photo mat or whatever. And I did the joke and Bob Hope turned to me and said, well, good for you. Like not getting it at all. I was said, well, good for you. Not getting it at all. I was like, oh.

Did you keep the cue cards as a souvenir from the Bob Hope experience? I do have those cue cards, yes. I'm looking at them right now. That's wonderful. But anyway, this was so much fun. Please tell all of your loyal listeners to get my book, How to Succeed in Business Without Really Crying, all these stories and more. Lessons from a Life in Comedy, Cara Leifer.

Cara, we'll have you back another time, and we'll talk about all the stuff we didn't get to. I'd love it. Soupy sales and the Oscars and Jay Leno and Carson and everything else. And Dave Boone, and he says hello, by the way. Love Dave Boone. Our mutual friend. So thanks for doing it.

Thank you, guys. Thank you. Well, I'm Gilbert Gottfried. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And this has been another episode of Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast, where we've been talking to acclaimed television writer and comedian and the author of the new book, How to Succeed in Business Without Really Crying, Lessons from a Life in Comedy, Carol Leifer. If you like listening to comedy, try watching it on the internet.

The folks behind the Sideshow Network have launched a new YouTube channel called Wait For It. It's got interviews with comedians like Reggie watts todd glass liza slicinger slicing driving friends with her for 10 years one of the funniest people out there and i still have a hard time with the last name liza our very own owen benjamin that's me takes you on a musical journey down internet rabbit holes and much more you don't have to wait any longer just go to youtube.com slash wait for it comedy there's no need to wait for it anymore because it's here and it's funny and i love you a few days ago brooke tudine posted an inspirational quote on her wall that got 17 likes and three comments thumbs up brooke geico

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