Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - 87. George Takei

Episode Date: January 25, 2016

Gilbert and Frank return to the famed New York Friars Club for an intimate conversation with one of the world's most well-loved pop culture figures, actor and activist George Takei, who shares his feelings about Caucasian actors in Asian roles, speaks frankly about Japanese-American internment, expresses his gratitude to Trekkies and fondly remembers old friend Leonard Nimoy. Also, George feuds with William Shatner, chats up Jerry Lewis, runs into Cary Grant and rebukes Arnold Schwarzenegger. PLUS: James Hong! Frank Gorshin! George channels Sir John Gielgud! Gilbert does Sir Richard Burton! And the last of the Paramount contract players! Let Selfie Station be the Picture taker, Ice breaker AND your money maker. As a special introductory offer, get $500 off the professional package. Go to http://SelfieStationpodcast.com and enter promo code GILBERT. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Yes. It's a beautiful gift. Yeah. Go to patreon.com slash Gilbert Gottfried. That's Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com slash Gilbert Gottfried. Thank you for your generosity. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we're here at the George Burns Room at the Legendary Friars Club in New York City.

Our guest this week is an actor, producer, director, voiceover artist, author, and activist. He's also a social media superstar with over 10 million Facebook and Twitter followers and one of the most beloved figures in popular culture. He's appeared in hundreds of movies and TV shows, appearing alongside everyone from Cary Grant to Frank Sinatra to John Wayne. But he's best known for his role of the helmsman Hikaru Sulu on the legendary groundbreaking series Star Trek. His new Broadway musical, Allegiance, is currently playing to sold-out houses at the Longacre Theater.

Please welcome the man who the New York Post called the Asian Betty White. Oh, my. Betty White. Do I have to have a sex change now at this tender age? George Takei. As if he needs any introduction. I've been called the Jewish Mary Tyler Moore. Really?

Oh, so you've got us exchanged, too. Why do they want to compare us to women? What is it about us? They were talking about how you were a beloved icon. Oh, can't they beloved me as a man? Well. You're a beloved icon. Well, can't they beloved me as a man?

Now, you just got back from the doctor. Yes, I did. Okay, tell us this weird ailment. Well, I have to cough in Allegiance. Yes, in your play. Yes. It's a very dusty internment camp that we're at. I'm an old man and I'm fragile and I'm constantly coughing. And when they take me to the infirmary, I thought, you know,

here's this threatening MP, military police that comes and holds a gun against my grandson. And so I'm holding my cough until he leaves. And when he leaves, I have this great big giant wheeze because I've been holding back the cough. And that's what's been doing me in. I was losing my voice the last couple of days and particularly yesterday. Can you – I know it's dangerous, but can you do your old wheeze? What I've been doing that got me in trouble? Okay. but can you do your old tweeze? Your dangerous tweeze. That got me in trouble?

Okay. Don't tell my doctor. Oh, I... She gave me... And my hubby, who's very obedient, and he's got a black whip that he cracks over me. And Brad is here. He is here.

And I'm not supposed to do this, but because I have the protection of you and your crew. Because you know how trustworthy I am. Because, you know, I've been holding it back. Yes. And that vicious gun-toting MP is gone.

So it's a release. And that's what's been damaging my voice. And I was losing it. I have a duet to sing with Lea Salonga. And I was getting that wheeze out singing. And so I went to see the doctor, and she told me what not to do, which I just did. Oh, yeah. Can I hear your new cough?

It's very exotic. It's this disease that I've got. No one has ever heard of. It happens only in the Wyoming internment. A little like Luke Costello in It Meets Frankenstein. So you say you saw the Dracula. I've got a horrible cold. Oh, chick.

Now, and describe to us the examination. Well, she stuck this stick down my throat, which is a probe camera and you see it on the screen now you're used to that well I'm I'm not used to seeing what I thought I saw

I can imagine a lot of things from what people have told me and it from what people have told me. And it looked like what they told me a vagina looks like. And it was bloody and red. So I don't want to have that. That's why I'm gay. So your throat looks like a bloody vagina. Not quite bloody, but, you know, a little red on the rims.

I didn't know this was that kind of show. Oh, welcome. Right in the gutter, five minutes into the show. Yes. Immediately. We're already talking about vaginas and stuff shoved down the throat. That I'm familiar with. But you said you actually gagged.

Yes, I did. Yeah, that must be major. Well, because it's a long, skinny thing that goes way down here. I'm not used to that. Now, you said you agreed to do this show because you said you just want to talk about how much you hate William Shatner.

You mean this show? Or every other show you've appeared on. No, no, no. I just calls it as I sees it. He is what I've characterized him. A great, huge, bountiful, lump of ego. And I described all the things that he did and the things that he said, and he takes great umbrage with that.

I have no idea why. It was a document in my autobiography. I described the thing. Oh, my goodness, all this laughing started to make my voice crack again. Try to be less funny, Gil. Yes. Now, can you do a William Shatner imitation for us?

Not with this new instruction that I have for my voice. Can you tell us some of the things William Shatner did that pissed you off? Not pissed me off. I just caused it as I saw it. Yeah. Like, well, for one thing, proper etiquette is, you know, when you do close-ups on people and you're playing a scene. I'm starting to lose my voice again. and you're playing a scene.

I'm starting to lose my voice again. You do your off-camera lines standing next to the camera. Yeah, the other actor stands behind the camera. Sometimes you can't do it because you've got to study for the next scene or something. So that's understandable. But he constantly doesn't do the offstage lines. One day, we were working, and the publicist came rushing in and said, whispered into Bill's ear, and he went off with them. And so production came to a halt. And so I thought I'd take a walk. There was a fire on the back lot. And they brought Bill in, and they gave him a hose, and he started watering the fire.

And then as I was driving back home at the end of the day, I had the news on the radio. And it said, William Shatner saved Paramount Studios. Wow. He came and held the hose for about five minutes while the cameras went. And then he came back on the stage and we finished filming. And he took umbrage with that. stage and we finish filming. And he took umbrage with that. There was one memorable morning when TV Guide was doing a photo spread on Leonard Nimoy becoming Mr. Spock. The pointy ears and the eyebrows going up. And Leonard's always in the makeup room first thing in the morning.

He comes in about 5.30 thereabouts. And the rest of us stagger in later. And Leonard had half his makeup on, and a photographer was recording every stage of that. And Bill came in and saw that. And this was the first season when all of a sudden Leonard's fan mail. Back in those days, we had what was called fan mail. And they were like about ten times what Bill was getting in. So there was a little tension.

He saw that and he left the makeup room and made a phone call to the front office. The call was made and shortly thereafter some minion came in and dismissed the photographer. Leonard said, why? We're not finished with the process of the makeup being put on me to make me Spock. And they said, well, we don't know. They just got instructions to dismiss the photographer.

And so he said, well, I'm not finishing my makeup. And he went back into his trailer and nothing happened and so calls were made and as it turned out bill had written into his contract a photographer approval on the set on the soundstage incredible and he apparently exercised that, the photographer was dismissed. And so, you know, Leonard wasn't going to have any more makeup done. And he stayed in his dressing room. And then some black suits from the front office came in, and they went into Leonard's dressing room, and they talked for a while. And then they went over to Bill's dressing room, and Bill was holding up in his dressing room, and then they went back and forth.

We got into our makeup, into our wardrobe, and we sat around the set waiting, and the assistant director came and said, well, looks like it's going to be a while before we get started. Why don't you guys go down to the commissary and go on an early coffee break? And so the rest of us sauntered down to the commissary and spent a relaxing half an hour. And we decided to saunter back. And the black suits were still going back and forth from Bill's dressing room to Leonard's dressing room. And we hung around a little bit, chit-chatted some more. The set was not lit yet.

And then the assistants came and said, why don't you guys go for an early lunch? We went to lunch. Had a nice, long, leisurely lunch. And we sauntered back. And at last, the lights were on the set and things were happening, and Leonard was back in the makeup room with the photographer recording the process of his becoming Mr. Spock.

Apparently, they got a resolution to that. And I wrote about that in my autobiography. And Bill didn't like that either. And he's been bad-mouthing me ever since. The other thing that baffled us was when Brad and I got married, was when Brad and I got married, Walter Koenig, who played Chekhov, became a very good friend, and we asked him to be our best man, and he agreed. And Nichelle is a dear friend as well, so we asked her to become our matron of honor.

Nichelle said, I am not a matron. If Walter can be the best man, why can't I be the best lady? And we said, of course you are. Seems fair. And so because we had the Star Trek tone to our wedding, we sent out invitations to

everyone. And, you know, they all responded and Leonard initially said he was coming but he had an emergency meeting in New York that he had to go to so he wasn't able to be there but we never heard from Bill and we thought that's fine

Bill never shows up at anything we do so that's fine and we know, Bill never shows up at anything we do. So that's fine. And we went on. Two months after the wedding, he goes on YouTube, ranting and raving about George not inviting him to our wedding. We did send him an invitation. We were absolutely baffled. And if he did want to come that badly, why didn't he call us before the wedding, not two months after the wedding? What's the matter with him? We were absolutely baffled. billboard said, William Shatner's new talk show, Raw Nerves. And I said to Brad, that's why he complained. He needed publicity. You know, you just said that every time he has a book coming out, he goes back to the feud as a way to, he works the system.

Yeah. And now he must have some other project coming up because he's ginned up the controversy again. So we said, well, that's Bill. Whenever he needs publicity, he gins up that controversy. He thinks, what was the phrase he used? I'm very disturbed. Yeah, he said you were disturbed. Well, who's the one that's disturbed?

I love that he plays the victim, too. I mean, it wasn't only you. There were other cast members as well who took issue with him and wrote about it. He claims he has no idea what everybody's talking about. And the thing about Bill, I've done so many favors for him even while he's complaining. He asked – he's got a book coming out being written by a ghostwriter about his friendship with Leonard. Yes, I saw that. And his secretary called and asked whether I would talk to the ghostwriter or not.

talk to the ghostwriter or not. And so as a favor, again, hoping that this would quiet him, I did an interview with this ghostwriter about Leonard and for Bill to use for his book. But he's still got this, you know, feud going. The latest thing is I'm disturbed. And so I don't know what project he... I guess this is to publicize his new autobiography

about his friendship with Leonard Nimoy. Well, look how much mileage he's gotten out of the feud. I mean, Howard Stern and entertainment. Everywhere he goes, it's, why don't you like George Takei? Now, I heard his relationship with Leonard Nimoy wasn't that good

either. Not if you listen to Bill. He was a brother. Now, I also heard, I think you said like at Star Trek, everyone knows that you are gay except for one is that shocking everything went right over his head

well now that we brought up leonard i mean you had a very different relationship with leonard and where bill was uh you know not a a generous actor, it's fair to say. I found in my research an interesting story about Leonard and you both playing a part in Equus and something nice that he said to you. Well, he did Equus on Broadway. And Leonard is a very fine, serious actor. And I got the opportunity to do the same role, Dysart, in Los Angeles at the East West Players. And Leonard was nice enough to come and see that.

The ushers came backstage and excitedly told me, Leonard Nimoy's in the audience. And I thought, oh, my. You know, Leonard, who did it on Broadway. And after the performance, I was steeled for Leonard coming backstage. And so he came in smiling, and I said, well, Leonard, what did you think? And he smiles, and he says, you are better. Now, I mean, he did it on Broadway.

That is his very deferential way, self way of flattering me. And that was very kind of him. But, you know, he's been very good about it. He's a very supportive guy. We did Allegiance in San Diego, and he drove down with another couple of friends that he brought with him to see Allegiance because he knew that was a project that was very near and dear to my heart. And he was very interested in the story of the internment as well. And he came backstage, and the rest of the cast was really excited

and hurly-burly about getting a picture with Leonard. And he came to the screening of To Be Takei, a documentary on Brad Me. And he said he's looking forward to seeing Allegiance on Broadway. But alas, he passed a few months before we opened this year, as a matter of fact. February of this year.

I've never heard a bad thing about Leonard Nimoy. He is a real genuine, true friend. And a very gifted serious artist not not only as an actor but also as a director I mean he was enormously successful as a three men and a baby yeah and three Star Trek yeah yeah some of the best ones one yeah yeah Star Trek for ya it's very good you, when I was a struggling comedian, I had a job working the concessions in the Broadway theaters.

Oh! And one of them was Equus with Richard Burton. Richard Burton. Yeah. Who I worked with as well. With one particular whole school nugget, the boy in braces. That's a Taurian voice. boy in races. That's the Torian voice. Nicely done.

He's glorious. Now, I – oh, another person I was fascinated by, another person shaped by World War II on Star Trek, James Doohan. He pronounces it Doohan. Doohan. Yeah, I could – It's like he says, like, what are you doing? Now, he was like a World War II hero. He was on Normandy invasion. He was a Canadian.

Yeah. Born in Vancouver, British Columbia. And he was with the Canadian Royal Air Force. And he was in the European theater. And he was also very self-effacing, but he was heroic during the Second World War. And he used to love reminiscing about his exploits then. I heard he was, like, shot six times in the Normandy invasion. And he lost a finger too.

Yeah. He always hid that finger. Oh. He held his hands like this. I think it was his index finger that he lost. And I heard what saved his life is his brother had given him a cigarette case.

Oh yeah, he talks about that. And he's always kept that. A dent in it. Yeah, wow. See, so smoking's good for you. No, I think he would have lived longer if he had not smoked as much as he did.

Wow. He was constantly stepping out. I'm a health freak, and I used to waggle a finger at him. But I've given up because he was a dedicated smoker, although he did quit in the last few years of his life. Tell us about getting the call for Star Trek, George. And I know there's a story about you getting Gene Roddenberry's name wrong. When your agent first called you and said there's a sci-fi series. What were your first thoughts?

Well, I thought it's a pilot. It's a possible series. It could mean steady employment. So that was really exciting because I'd only gotten one other opportunity to do a pilot. That was with Dean Jagger, if you remember that. I know Dean Jagger from White Christmas. Academy Award winning actor. He played a scientist in Washington, D.C.

And I was his assistant. It was called The House on K Street. Wow. That's not even on your IMDb page. No, because it didn't sell. Wow. And then here was this other opportunity to do a pilot. And so I was really excited about that. Not so much

because it was a science fiction piece, but because it was a pilot for a potential series. And I went in for the interview and they gave me this name of the producer. And I read it very quickly. So I mispronounced the name when I walked in. I called him Mr. Rosenberry. You know, a lot of Rosens in Hollywood. It was a safe bet. I thought it was a safe guess. And he corrected the pronunciation of his name, but he then called me George Takai, a common mispronunciation of my surname

because of the E-I. They want to give it that Germanic Einstein, you know, pronunciation. But the vowels in Japanese are pronounced like the Mediterranean languages, Italian, Spanish. It's Takai, E-I. It's Takei, E-I. However, there is a Japanese word pronounced Takei with an A, T-A-K-E-I, and that translates into English as expensive.

And when I explained that to Gene, he said, oh, my goodness, a producer doesn't like to call an actor expensive. So I quickly told him, well, I'm Takei, which doesn't mean cheap either. Now, you worked with Jerry Lewis twice. I think I did. I'm not sure. We have the big mouth and which way to the

front were the ones listed on here. Yes. I thought maybe I did a third, but yeah, you're right. Now, Which Way to the Front, of course, was a World War II comedy. And so I can only imagine the part you played. I did not play a German soldier. No, no. So you said you were kind of embarrassed about that.

Well, I actually didn't want to do it. But my agent said, these are the realities of Hollywood. You know, your career will be extended if you are in a big box office movie. And Jerry Lewis is always, constantly big box office. And if you turn this down, that could mean that certain words will get out. And it could affect your employability. And so I did it reluctantly just because I passionately loved acting and my career. And so I did that.

But I didn't do it willingly. My agent was very persuasive. And so I considered those two shows that I don't want to talk about. And that's the one that everybody wants me to talk about. Now, what was Jerry Lewis like to work with? Well, he was Jerry Lewis, on stage and off. But he's also, I noticed, a very venturesome guy. He likes new ideas, new technology.

likes new ideas, new technology. And it was on a Jerry Lewis set that I first saw him do something amazing. We'd shoot a scene, and he walked over to a monitor, and he immediately saw that scene played back. We, in Hollywood in those days, you had to wait until the next day to see the dailies, if you would call that phrase. Sure. The dailies. During lunch hour, we took our brown bags into a screening room and we watched what we shot the day before. So you had to wait 24 hours before you could see what you had done. But with Jerry Lewis, he was able to see it immediately afterwards on the playback. And so I thought, this is amazing. You can see it immediately and you can fix it while you're on that set. So it's much more efficient and effective when actors

are still remembering what they did or what they should have done and uh so i i have uh newfound respect for jerry lewis uh as a innovator as a venturesome filmmaker yeah they said they he invented he came up with that the video playback yeah i think they call this video assist video assist assist, that's right. Go ahead. Well, and then I happened to be in the theater. I forget what play that I went to see.

And I felt someone tapping on my back and I looked back and there's Jerry Lewis seated right behind me. And so we chatted a little bit and we talked about my admiration for him as an innovator in filmmaking. As long as we're talking about other icons that you worked with, George, you were in a Sinatra movie called Never So Few. Did you interact with the man?

Well, my scene was where he came in and looked at all the wounded Vietnamese soldiers. And he talked to me in the scene. But he seemed to be a rather standoffish kind of guy. I was just a young day player, and he was the star of the movie. And so I kept my distance, and he kept his. But there's a good picture of you with John Wayne on your the uh on your website you were in the green berets and i was more of a uh uh participant in that movie in never so few i was a day player uh but in that one i ran throughout the film until I died. I remember working on a play on Broadway. I was like a guest host of Rocky Horror.

And one of the chorus boys was the grandson of John Wayne. Grandson? Yeah. Interesting. And I can only imagine what John Wayne would be thinking of his grandson as a chorus boy. Because I remember

Patrick Wayne, his son, was in that film, Green Berets. But he also had a young son. He looked like he was about 10 or 11 years old, pre-teen. And that was another son of his.

So he was a prolific guy. He was. What about Cary Grant in Walk, Don't Run? Cary Grant is exactly as he is on screen. Very debonair, very Natalie-dressed all the time with that singular charismatic personality of his. And I was a theater student at UCLA at that time. I kind of, as they say, bicycled between UCLA and movie studios because they didn't have too many Asian American actors in the business, and my agent was a good agent. They kept pulling me out of school and getting me jobs.

And because I had school, I brought my books with me to the sound stage, and in between shots I was doing my homework. And he noticed that. He says, young man, you are such a studious thing. Did you know that you don't have to be smart to be an actor? That's great. I think it was his last film, actually, Walk, Don't Run. With Jim Hutton.

Was it? Jim Hutton. Jim Hutton. And I saw Jim and I worked with him in the Green Berets as well. Right, right. And shortly after that I saw him on the back lot

at Paramount Studios and just about a year or two after that he was gone. Yeah, he died young. He died very young. Father of Timothy Hutton for people that don't remember him. A real nice guy, very down-to-earth, easy, relaxed guy, and he died very young. Now, the Star Trek I remember was the one with Frank Gorshin.

We were talking about it before we turned the mics on. And what do you remember about Frank Ocean? First of all, he was the Riddler, and he was a great mimic. And he was an energetic guy. You know, the Everly Bunny. Yeah. I mean, always on, always energetic. And that was a typical Star Trek episode because Gene Roddenberry wanted to deal with the issues of the time while at the same time telling a sci-fi story.

And so he took issues. I mean, the 60s was a turbulent time in the United States and in the world, for that matter. We had the Civil Rights Movement going. We had the Vietnam War. We had the Cold War. And all those issues were addressed in a science fiction context. And to illustrate, to distill the civil rights movement to its essential, we went to an alien planet where there were two battling races. One was black on the right side and white on the left side.

And the other alien breed was black on the left side and white on the left side. And the other alien breed was black on the left side and white on the right side. And they couldn't get along. And so that was the essential story. And Frank Gorshin was, I can't remember whether he was black on the right or left, but that was the whole point of that script, that it's ridiculous, It's senseless.

And we were in reality at that time in the civil rights struggle, the march in Selma and lynching literally going on at that time. And now here it is 50 years after that, and we have an African American as the president of the United States. So, you know, that's what keeps me optimistic about the future. We have a lot of problems still today, but we are making progress. And in small increments, progress is being made. For me, this year, 2015, was a vitally important year because for one thing, we got allegiance on Broadway. And for another thing, we got marriage equality for LGBT people from border to border, from coast to coast. You know, Brad and I got married in 2008 in California, but other states didn't have that. It was a patchwork of states. And now I can't pledge allegiance to the United States of America, all 50 states. And going to Alaska as well. Marriage equality there too. You guys were ahead of the curve.

Yep. As a matter of fact, I came out because of something monumental that happened in California. The only other state that had marriage equality in 2005 was Massachusetts. They got it in 2003 through the courts. It was a judicial route. But in California in 2005, both houses of our legislature, the Senate and the Assembly, passed the marriage equality bill. All that was needed for that bill to become the law of the state was one more signature, that of the governor, who happened to be Arnold Schwarzenegger at that time. And when he campaigned for the governor's office, he campaigned by saying, I'm from Hollywood.

I've worked with gays and lesbians. Some of my best friends are. Oh, yeah. He said, I have no problem with it. No problem with it. And yet he vetoed it. He said it even after the veto. You know, the press kept asking him, well, why did you veto it? He says, I have no problem with it, but I vetoed it. It doesn't make sense. No. If you think you don't have the money to start your own business, then I have fantastic news. Now you can own a business that has proven

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You can start your own business right now. Let Selfie Station be the picture taker, icebreaker, and your money maker. Now, as a special introductory offer, get $500 off the professional package. That's right. $500 off. Go to SelfieStationPodcast.com and support my show by entering promo code gilbert that's selfie station podcast.com promo code gilbert and it's interesting because i read in the research that the tab hunter's career was one of the reasons that you managed to stay closeted for so long. Exactly.

Or what instilled that fear in you. That you wouldn't work. Because, you know, he was my heartthrob way back then. I mean, a classic American boy next door. Blonde, blue-eyed, athletic. Yeah, we have to get him for the show. He's an interesting man. He's a fascinating guy.

He's in his 80s now. I know. I think there's a new documentary about him or something. New documentary. Very, very moving documentary. And he's still a dynamic personality and a nice guy. He was someone that made me think, maybe I'll become an actor until Confidential magazine, the rag of that time, exposed him as being gay. And his career faded. And so that was an object lesson for me.

Right. I wanted to be an actor. And I knew that I couldn't if who I really was was known. I heard when Rock Hudson was the biggest star around that the tabloids were threatening the studio to expose him. And sometimes they could pay him off or sometimes they could throw someone under the bus. off or sometimes they could throw someone under the bus and there was another actor a handsome actor at the time named george nader and he was like a handsome guy and they said look we'll give you him if you shut up about rock hudson right and that killed us it's almost like the red scare oh yeah yeah pricing people up for.

People were intimidated because those deals were made. As a matter of fact, that was how Tab Hunter was exposed. Tab Hunter's agent, Henry Wilson, was also Rock Hudson's agent. And that was the deal that was made. Tab Hunter for Rock Hudson. Interesting. I didn't know that. That's sad. So I guess a bunch of careers probably were ruined that way by We'll Trade You. It was a very, very insidious business back then.

You know? Yeah, sure. Today now, as a matter of fact, when I came out in 2005, because Arnold Schwarzenegger's veto really had me raging. And I thought, well, I've got to take a stand. Good for you. At this point in my life and career. But I thought that was going to be the end of my career. I was prepared to fade.

I came out, and my career has blossomed. I was going to say, you owe Arnold Schwarzenegger a debt of gratitude. I may have remained bigger than you ever were. Okay, now I know I keep treating you like you're the next Rich Little. Oh, thank God he's a man. You're not comparing me to Phyllis Diller. Only because he didn't think of it.

Can you please attempt an Arnold Schwarzenegger imitation oh I could I dare not okay can you say in your own voice I'll be back I'll be back and I will

yes now I first met you, I think, on the Howard Stern show. That's right. Yeah. And I'll give the audience a chance to go, Gilbert Gottfried was on Howard Stern? Such an odd couple. Who would have thunk? And I think that's where you got a whole second career.

Yes. Yeah. As a matter of fact, it was in 2005 after I came out that I got a call from Gary DeLabate. And, you know, he has these prank calls that he often makes. And I had been pranked a couple of times. makes. And I had been pranked a couple of times. So when Gary called, and that was

New Year's week, I remember. So that was about ten years ago. Just about this time. He said, this is Gary Adelabate from the Howard Stern Show. Don't hang up. Yeah. And so I said, alright, I'll listen to you.

Because I thought it was a prank prank and I was going to see how this was going to turn out. And he said, we'd like to have you as our official announcer for the new satellite radio program that he's going to start up. And I said, I think I'm going to hang up. You're pulling my leg again. And he said, no, don't hang up. And I said, well, why are you calling me directly? I have an agent. And I'm sure you could find out who that is. Or if you don't, I'll tell you who that is. And I told him. But he said, you know, we wanted to know whether you'd be interested first of all. And I said, well, I would be interested if you call my agent first and my agent talked to me. And so I tried to put them off like that. And so I gave my agents

name and number. As it turned out, my agent is Howard Stern's agent too. So it worked out, my agent is Howard Stern's agent, too. So it worked out. Don Buchwald? Don Buchwald. Yep, yep. And so they called my agent, and they discussed what it was. But I'm really, despite my initial reticence, I'm really grateful to Howard because he has opened new doors that I never expected to. And not just for my career, but for me to reach a whole new audience.

You know, one of the reasons why we finally decided to do that show was I've been going around on speaking tours throughout the country, that show was I've been going around on speaking tours throughout the country, talking about the internment of Japanese Americans, but also relating that to homophobia and the legalized discrimination of LGBT people. And I said, I go to all these universities or governmental agencies and make these speeches, but I notice that the people at these events are either themselves gay or allies, people who are already on our side. And to really bring change, I need to reach that decent, fair-minded, broad middle that's too busy making a living to think about other issues. How do we reach them? And I thought, well, I discussed this with Brad, and we said Howard Stern reaches an amazingly wide range of people, and they're dedicated listeners.

They follow him wherever and whatever the issue, you know. And as a matter of fact, Brad was a listener of the Howard Stern show. And he said, you're right. And so maybe we should consider that. And so we began discussions. And sure enough, you know, Howard's turned out to be one of the people that helped bring about this open-minded attitude toward LGBT people. And things started to happen. And I was able to reach that broad middle. Studio heads as well as insurance salesmen, football players, professional football players, as well as professional Broadway dancers. A broad range of people.

And so Howard is someone that I owe a great debt to. One day I'd like to appear on the Howard Stern Show. Never say never. Yes. You mean you're trying to connect with Jewish people that look like Asians? You think he looks Asian, George? He looks like, I told him on the Howard Stern show, he looks like my uncle. You guys could be distantly.

The face is very much like my uncle's, except he was heavier. He was a Coca-Cola executive in Japan. Because he spoke English and Japanese and in the post war years they wanted to have someone who spoke English but also spoke Japanese and

whenever I visited Japan he would take me places and all that and so he was always on my mind and when you first came on I said he looks like my Uncle Susumu. However, he didn't laugh like you. Susumu Gottfried. I remember I did the friar's roast of you.

Yes, you did. I was there. I'm still singing. That was a you did. I was there. I'm still sending you. That was a great night. That was well done. And I remember afterwards, you gave me a hug and said, thank you, uncle. And I'm still waiting for a photo of this guy. Yes, but I'm here in New York, and our family albums are back in Los

Angeles. I will send you. Uncle Susumu. Like Uncle Tannous. Now that you bring it up, George, I found it interesting in the research that when you told your dad you wanted to be an actor, I mean, it was a little bit, he was a little bit concerned.

He thought that you would have limited opportunities. Exactly. Being an Asian man. Very limited opportunities and a tough life. And what did you say to him? And I said, you know, I... He said,

look at the stereotypes that's available. Those are the roles that Asian American actors are getting. He wasn't wrong. He wasn't wrong. He was a wise man. But I told him, Daddy, I will change things. I will bring about change. We're going to be getting more dimension roles. And I am eternally grateful to my father. My father was a very

unusual Japanese American father of that generation. He was in real estate, and he wanted me to go into architecture. And I think he fancied the idea of putting out a sign that said, Takei and Son Real Estate Development. I would design the buildings, and he would develop them. And as a good son, I started my college career as an architecture student, but I had to be true to myself. And when I finally came out as an aspiring actor to my father,

he knew me well enough. He knew that I was passionate and strong-willed, bullheaded was the word he used. And he understood me. And he said, I told him, I want to, you know, I did two years as an architecture student at Berkeley but I said I got to be true to myself I really love acting and I want to I don't want to have regrets later on in my life and my father understood what I meant by that but when I said I wanted to come to New York and study at the actor's studio. He said, well, that's a fine, respected acting school, but they won't give you a diploma when you finish there, which means you're a legitimately educated person.

Your mother and I want you to have that. And I think in the back of his mind, he thought, well, if he must study theater, at least he can go into teaching with a diploma. But he said, if you really want to study acting and the theater, here in town in Los Angeles, we have a fine theater school at UCLA. And when you finish there, they'll give you that piece of documentation. But he said, you're a bullheaded kid. You'll insist on going to New York. So let me tell you, New York is a crowded, competitive, expensive place. And you have to be prepared to do it all on your own. However, if you go to UCLA to study theater and acting,

then we'll subsidize you. So you choose New York on your own or UCLA with subsidy. I made a self-discovery. I'm a practical kid. It's funny. kid. It's funny, in the old movies, they used to hire the Chinese actors to play Japanese.

Well, because we were all in internment camps. The Japanese Americans. So yeah, they hired Chinese American actors to play Japanese in the war movies. Yeah, like Richard Liu was always the Japanese general. Yeah, when they Liu was always the Japanese general. Yeah.

When they weren't hiring Caucasian actors to play Charlie Chan. Exactly. What are your feelings there? We did a show. Oh, do you have some questions about that? Well, it's interesting

because you've been outspoken about that. There was talk of an Akira movie with white actors. That's right. And you spoke out about that. And you said there's progress being made since you started, but a long way to go.

We still have a long ways to go because that sort of thing is still coming up. There's another anime story that they're considering with white actors. So, you know, at least here I am and here are other actors, Asian American actors, making some advances. Lucy Liu came to see Allegiance and, you know, she's made some and I remember I did a play at the Manhattan Theater Club and there was this Asian-American girl working props on that show. A few years later, I saw that she was working in television as an actor, actress, you know, actor.

And she turned out to be Lucy Liu. That's great. She was working props at the Manhattan Theater Club. What do you think when you go back and you see Warner Oland as Charlie Chan or Karloff? Or Peter Lorre. Or Peter Lorre doing Mr. Moto. Or Marlon Brando. Tea House on the August Moon. Or we talked on the show, Gilbert and I have a mini episode that we do, and we talked about Tony Randall and the seven faces of Dr. Laub.

Do you cringe when you see these? You know, I'm a theater historian as well. And it's a period piece. It reflects the period then. And, you know, there's no way you can deny history. The reason why I want to tell the story of the interment is because we have lessons to learn. is because we have lessons to learn. And we should not deny or try to ban all those films and plays that we consider really demeaning or stereotyping.

Because we can say that's what we don't want. That's what we can grow from. We don't want sure that's what we can uh uh grow from we don't want mickey rooney in breakfast at tiffany's exactly i cringe right right we all do the the chinese actor james hung uh who's best known as the i haven't written down james he's best known as the restaurant manager on Seinfeld. That's right. But he did a lot of great stuff. Oh, he's been in billions of things.

He said he learned how to act Chinese by watching Peter Lorre as Mr. Moto. Well, that was the problem. You know, we weren't there as creative people. We were there as rented Asian faces. You know, we were just renting out our faces. And even the acting roles were taken on by waiters in Chinese restaurants who were free during the daytime because they worked at night as waiters, you know. And so they rented out their Asian faces. And the creative people, the writers, the directors, the producers, were all Caucasians. And so the director would say, all right, come in and smile and kowtow and shuffle over there and giggle and then go out.

And so they did what they were told to do. You know, they were for hire. But now we have trained actors. We have now writers. In fact, Tony-winning playwrights like David Henry Huang. And we have directors. Allegiance was directed by Stafford Arima, an Asian American. And so we are now bringing dimension.

We're creating real characters with a history, with individual personalities. And that's the difference. We were faces for rent, and if a white actor played the white view of Asians better, like Warner Olin, then that was what we saw. But they weren't written by or they didn't have a world view from Asian-American lenses, eyes. That's the difference. I heard that actually the Warner Olin, Charlie Chan movies, the Chinese were big fans of that. Not necessarily.

I mean, the ones that were conscious of what was happening, they resented being depicted as those stereotypes. You know, Charlie Chan walked with a shuffle. You know, Asian Americans don't necessarily. There are some that shuffle because they have infirmities in the leg. But we don't all shuffle. I find it odd, too, that Key Luke was playing number one son, that they had an Asian actor as the son, but Charlie Chan himself was always

Sidney Toler or Warner Rowland. He was always a Caucasian. Or Roland Winters. Or Roland Winters. But the funny thing there is when I'll hear Asian actors complain there, it's like, I mean, parts like Charlie Chan where, you know, it was this brilliant Asian guy fighting crime. Why couldn't that be played by brilliant Asian actors?

Could have been. Yeah. You know, we're denied those real media roles. Or Paul Mooney in The Good Earth. Yeah. And we could bring some of our artistic, you know, actors' creativity, our ideas, some vantage point. No, it's always the white actor that gets those substantial roles. That's the area where, you know where there's that discriminatory limitation.

And the myth was that Asian Americans can't act. They need guidance, the director telling them what to do. And so they'd much rather hire an actor, a white actor who brings professionalism. But if we're not given the opportunity to sink our teeth into real roles, then, you know, how can we develop as actors? And I admire the African-American acting community because they've gone beyond just getting substantial roles. They now have become bankable actors, which means any project that has Denzel Washington associated with it is green-lighted. And therefore, those stories have the perspective of an African-American.

You know, he can be an alcoholic airline pilot and play that with dimension. Because, you know, we're everything. We're the human person. We are alcoholics. We have fallibilities. We're human. And that can be brought into a character by a great actor and a great star who greenlights a project. As Asian Americans, we have still to get to that point. I think that day will come. I mean, I can't imagine in a drama that somebody would be doing what they call yellow face nowadays. You'll still see it in a comedy. Christopher Walken played an Asian character in that ping pong movie.

Oh, yes. Balls of Fury. Maybe you could still get away with it in a comedy, but in a respectable drama. Even in a comedy, I think there are wonderful comedic actors. Sure. Of course. And why not? You'd like to see it.

Because you have to have the opportunity to develop in that area. Right. And I maintain that I'm Japanese-American, but I can play a Korean-American. You have. Yes. Or Vietnamese. We're all actors. But we have to be given the opportunity to do that.

And if you're limited to just, you know, these shallow two-dimensional roles, then how can we develop as actors? You know what I've noticed? It used to be Asian actors, sometimes if they weren't important to the plot then it was just oh they look funny

they sound funny and it's an easy laugh and now it seems like that's moved over to people from India now when you got someone from India that's the wacky stereotype yeah but

there's Aziz. What's his name? Aziz Ansari. Aziz Ansari. Yeah, people like that, you know, who are bringing that East Indian intelligence to that comic character. Oh, and here's something, too. Star Trek was produced by Desilu Studios.

You know, of course, Lucille Ball and Desi Arnaz. And you were actually in, and you're not the first actor I've had on here, who was part of Lucy's acting troupe. Well, Star Trek was

a Desilw production. But were you also in their acting workshop? I was. I did take my lessons there. Dizzlew Playhouse, which is now the commissary.

Interesting. But it was a big barn of a theater. And we, Sergeant, what's his name? Joseph Sargent? Director? Director, yeah. He was the drama coach there.

And so I studied there, yes. We had Robert Osborne on the show, who was in the Desilu workshop. Do you know him from Turner Classic Movies? You'd know him if you saw him. He's the host there. But I was not a contract player. In Star Trek, DeForest Kelly was the last of the Paramount

contract players. And I used to love, after lunch in the commissary, roaming around with them, because we had some time before we were needed on the set, roaming around the Paramount lot. And he would tell me, that's where the chorus girls used to have their dressing room, and that's the writers' building, and that's where the writers all stayed. And sure enough, when you see Sunset Boulevard, the writers were in that very same bungalow that DeForest pointed out.

Isn't that interesting? He turns up in so many Westerns. Oh, he does. You see him in a lot of stuff. He was a contract player. They were all paramount Westerns, too. Right. Since you brought up Trekkie again, and real quick, and we'll wrap up soon,

we kept you a long time. What's your relationship now with Trekkies? There's a wonderful episode of a sitcom called Party Down, which I, with Jane Lynch and some other people, Adam Scott, which I would urge listeners to find

where you're going into a men's room and somebody's, do you know this episode that you did? You're in a men's room and somebody, the waiter, keeps asking you about Star Trek. Oh, yes. It's wonderful. I'm proud of my association with Star Trek, you know,

because we were talking about Asian American stereotypes. Well, this was the first time I had the opportunity to play, without an accent, a member of the leadership team and as a regular on a TV series. I mean, that was groundbreaking for me, certainly, but also for the Asian-American image. And we dealt with issues that were important issues of the time and gene roddenberry had a vision for the human future i mean here we're involved in the civil rights movement but in the future we're going to be seen as all contributing members of starship Earth. And it's that diversity, working together in concert, that makes advance and progress possible.

And so I'm proud of my association with it. And the fact that the fans were the ones that gave us this life. If it weren't for the fans, I i mean we would have been dead after three seasons but because of that fan uh dedication and their tenacity their unwillingness to give up you know their love for star trek and the conventions and the merchandising and all that became a great industry so i do star trek conventions and conventions as my way of saying thank you to the fans. Now, William Shatner almost got

tart and feathered for a skit he did on Saturday Night Live, where he plays himself and he's saying to the Trekkies, he goes, you know, look, I don't know about this. Have any of you ever kissed a girl?

And get a life. Yeah. Get a life. Move out of your parents' basement. And I remember, wow. Yeah. That denigrating attitude, you know, because he's so important. Yeah.

He's so great. Well, you could tease the Trekkies a little bit. I mean, you did in that Party Down episode. Yes. Yeah. But the sketch itself was a little bit. I mean, you did in that Party Down episode. Yes, yes. But the sketch itself was a funny sketch. Yes, it was. But it really captured Bill.

But, you know, it's the fans that made Star Trek what it is. And next year, 2016, is the golden anniversary. 50 years. Did I ask you what you thought about William Shatner? Well, in small part, Bill's personality is what made the character of Kirk so charismatic, so magnetic, so compelling. So, yeah, I give Bill that. You've always been generous, even during this so-called feud with the Olivia de Havilland-Joan Fontaine thing that you guys have had going on for so long. You're always generous. Who am I, Olivia or Joan?

And again, I've got to get a sex change for either one of them. And again, I got to get a sex change for either one of them. But you've always been generous to say, in spite of any difficulties we may have had, you know, he's wonderful in the part. He is. He owns the part. He's a presence. I calls him as I sees him. Right on. And that's what, you know, made Kirk that charismatic person.

This is weird when he keeps saying, I calls him as I sees him. Because it's like this Japanese guy doing a black voice. I'm an American. It's a little bit of the kingfish. Yeah. We'll call them as I see some. Well, I'm saying to you, you could be Japanese if you wanted to. See, now, this is what pisses me off.

The universalities. In the old movies, I would have been cast as a Japanese general. No one has ever cast you in an Asian part, huh? You're still young. You know, what's in show business and in theater art, it's the ability of the talent. You know, I'm all for all things being equal. I'm all for all of us being able to play any part. I mean, I'm a Shakespeare buff.

I'd love to do Macbeth. Only Patrick Stewart gets offered that role. Damn Brits. Damn Brits. I saw King Charles III. Brilliant. Tim Piggott Smith is fantastic as King Charles.

But I'd like to think that if we're there, we should all be able to play these great roles. I want to give you a chance now. Can you, as Shylock... Well, I have Cassius memorized. Yes. I know that virtue to be in you, Brutus, as well as I do know your outward favor.

Well, honor is a subject of my story. I do not know what you and other men think of this life. As for my single self, I had to sleep not be as lived to be in awe of such a thing as I myself. I was born as free as Caesar. So were you. We both have fed as well, and we can both endure the winter's cold as well as he,

for once upon a raw and gusty day, and on and on and on, but, you know, as good as Gilgamesh. Okay. Can you please say, hath not a Jew eyes? If you tickle us, do we not laugh?

If you prick us, do we not bleed? Can you please? Write it down, and I will. I don't have that kind of time. I have to have George take care of me. Okay, well, you write it down. I'm going to ask George to tell us about... Give me a piece of paper.

Here, write on that. Okay. You can write it down, and I'm going to ask George to tell us about it. Give me a piece of paper. Here, write on that. Okay. You can write it down, and I'm going to ask George about allegiance and this idea that I'd read that you've been leaving a seat open for a certain individual every night at the show. You want to tell us about that? There's a sign right there. Well, you know, I did the Celebrity Apprentice. Yes, as did Gilbert.

Yes. And I have respect for him as a strong individual. But his idea of a healthy society, I keep thinking I could help him. society. I keep thinking I could help him. And at one of the press conferences, I challenged him with the press in front of me. I challenged him to let me buy him lunch at one of his restaurants to discuss marriage equality. And I was fully expecting him to demur in front of the press, but he fooled me. He said, you know, George, maybe I could learn something from you. Yeah, let's have lunch. We had some difficulties arranging our schedule, but eventually, after about four months,

we did meet for that lunch, and he knew we were going to talk about marriage equality. So when he came in, the first thing he said was, George, I just came from a beautiful gay wedding. And I said, well, it's a wedding, isn't it? And who was it? And he said, well, two wonderful people, two men. It turned out to be Jordan Roth's marriage, the CEO of J. Jampson Theater. It was a big, splashy, beautiful wedding. And I said, well, there you are.

You know, you've co-opted my argument. You know, people are getting married. And at that time, New York didn't have marriage equality. I said, it is going to be good for you personally. You're a businessman. You have hotels. You have restaurants. And if we have marriage equality in New York, people will come to celebrate their wedded bliss by coming to the city and staying in your hotels, having dinners or celebrating in your restaurants. It's going to be good for business.

Have that kind of attitude and not be discriminatory. Let's make it equal for everybody. And he said, well, I'm a traditional marriage guy. But I said, the world is changing. You know, we have an African-American president now. And you have to keep up with the changes. You can't stay ossified. And he says, well, but I'm a traditional marriage guy.

And so we didn't get anywhere. On his third marriage, by the way. And so we agreed to disagree. On his third marriage. Right. Worth pointing out. He believes in traditional marriage. Yeah, traditional divorce.

And I got to tell people who are just listening and can't see what's going on. Here's Frank interviewing George Takei as I, from memory, am writing down the speech of Shylock in Merchant of Venice. Oblivious. Okay. So now. Go for it. Judge Takei as Shylock in Merchant of Venice.

This is a cold reading. Hath not a Jew eyes? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you prick us, do we not bleed? Nicely done. Excellent. Excellent.

You're a great Shakespearean critic. Yes. Bravo to you. See, now here's an Asian playing a Jew as opposed to like in Dr. No, I'm very proud of this. Oh, Joseph Weisman. Yes. A Jew playing an Asian. Right.

Yes. He was Dr. No. Right. Probably not the first Jewish. No, no. No, probably not. Person to play an Asian. Go ahead, Gil.

Oh, oh, oh. Can you, well, right now you're on Broadway in this show, Allegiant. Which you saw. Yes. Yes, I did. What did you think? Oh, excellent. Well, tell that to Donald Trump because he can learn from –

He's leaving a seat where – when you were off writing, George and I were discussing that he's left a seat, an empty seat, reserved for Donald Trump at every show. He has banned all Muslims from entry into the United States. Well, wants to. He's advocating that. Advocating. And he's running for the presidency of the United States. That's a great responsibility, and you can't be that reckless. great responsibility, and you can't be that reckless. Because, you know, Muslims are of all kinds of people. Look at, when you go to Arlington National Cemetery, there are markers with religious

symbols on them. And there are many that have Muslim symbols. Muslims have fought for this country and they've died for this country. All Muslims are not alive. In the same way that I use the example, Timothy McVeigh is a classic American boy next door, blonde, blue-eyed, white. He is a terrorist. Do we say all Americans are terrorists because Timothy McVeigh is a horrific, despicable, grotesque terrorist?

It's a great example. And that's what he – because there are radical terrorists amongst the Muslim religion. He's painted with a broad brush all Muslims as that way. We have congressmen that are Muslims. We have school teachers that are Muslims. And so I think he needs to learn from a chapter of American history when all Japanese Americans, because of the way we look, because we happen to look like the people that bombed Pearl Harbor, were put into barbed wire prison camps. No charges, no trial, in the most egregious violation of the U.S. Constitution, we were imprisoned for the duration of the war. And that's the story we tell, as you know, in Allegiance.

And Donald Trump used that as the justification for his position on banning Muslims. As if it was a successful initiative. More importantly, he fired me from Celebrity Friends. Exactly. Me too. Allegiance is a tribute, in a way, to your dad. It is. Allegiance is a tribute in a way to your dad, isn't it? To my parents. Your parents.

Because in many respects, the character that Leia plays is a lot of my mother. She was a tough lady. She was a lot of my mother. She was a tough lady. It's very touching to hear you talk about having to recite the Pledge of Allegiance and looking through the window of the school and seeing the barbed wire fences. And the sentry towers. And the sentry towers. And the machine guns pointed at us. Yeah, the irony of it.

In America, by our American government, against American citizens. Could happen again. by our American government against American citizens. Could happen again. If you have people like Donald Trump who maintain that position. And I still maintain that he can learn if he just opened his mind and made the time. And so we have a seat saved with a sign saying, reserved for Mr. Donald Trump. So, Allegiance at the Longacre Theater, now playing. And also

another thing that's been bugging me, you retweeted me, and Lea Salonga didn't. Can you tell Lea Salonga to go fuck herself when you get to the theater tonight? No, I will not.

Because I don't think she can physically do that. Let this poor man get on with his life. We've kept him here a long time. I think I'm losing my voice. There's so much we could talk to you about, George. I just came from my voice doctor. This is one of those guests where Frank and I are going to be after the show.

Oh, we didn't get to this. We didn't ask him that. Well, we'll have you back another time. Yes. And we'll talk about I'm here in New York. I don't want you back. What? You what?

No, I don't want you back. But I... I don't want to come back. Okay. Should we have George read this? Oh, yes. What do you think, George? You got any voice left in you? You've been listening to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossso podcast with co-host Frank Santapadre.

Beautiful. Santapadre. Yes. Good Spanish name. It's Italiano, but close enough. Italiano, ah. And special guest George Takei. It's George Takei, not George Takei.

Follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and our website, gilbertpodcast.com. Oh, my. Thank you, George. Good visiting with you. I lost my voice. It was a thrill. My nephew, George Tickey. Who was it?

Uncle Sununu? Susumu. Uncle Susumu. So he's my Dupo Gangler. He's your spirit dog. Well, actually, he's dead now. Oh, yes. You'd have to be quite quiet to be my...

Well, that's impossible to me, as you know. Oh, there's that possibility that we all have. Oh, yes. Yes. Oh, there's that possibility that we all have. Oh, yes. Yes. When thy time comes to join that innumerable caravan that moves to that silent halls of death, thou go not like the quarry slaves at night, but soothed and sustained by an unfaltering trust,

lie down to pleasant dreams. Wow. That's the way to be quiet. I got chills. I know some lines from the Munsters.