Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Abbott and Costello

Episode Date: November 23, 2020

Gilbert and Frank are joined by archivist BOB FURMANEK, film critic LEONARD MALTIN and author-historian RON PALUMBO for a celebration of the 80th anniversary of Bud Abbott & Lou Costello's screen debut and an animated conversation about the lives and careers of one of the most popular comedy teams of all time. Also in this episode: Groucho Marx gushes, Dean Martin gets a nose job, Boris Karloff turns down "Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein" and Dan Aykroyd and John Belushi consider a Bud and Lou biopic. PLUS: Bingo the Chimp! Saluting Sidney Fields! Shemp joins the army! Joe Besser frightens Gilbert! And the experts pick their favorite A&C movies! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Ontario only. Gambling problem? Call Connex Ontario at 1-866-531-2600. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with iGaming Ontario. That's the sound of unaged whiskey transforming into Jack Daniel's Tennessee whiskey in Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around 1860, Nearest Green taught Jack Daniel how to filter whiskey through charcoal for a smoother taste, one drop at a time.

This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Eighty years ago this week, movie audience who were first introduced to a comedy team that had already made their mark on the Burlesque Sage and on radio. The movie was One Night in the Tropics, and the comedy team was Bud Abbott and Lou Costello. To celebrate that silver screen anniversary, Frank and I have assembled a panel of experts

to pay tribute to two of the greatest and most beloved comedians of all times. and most beloved comedians of all times. Bob Fermanek is an award-winning producer, author, historian, archivist, and president and founder of the 3D Film Archive, the first organization dedicated to saving and preserving our stereoscopic film heritage. Bob has restored original 3D elements of more than 30 features and two dozen shorts from 1922 to 1955, known as the golden age of 3D cinema. And he recently launched a Kickstarter campaign to restore and preserve two Abbott and Costello films, Africa Screams and Jack and the Beanstalk.

Bob also enjoyed a long professional associations with both Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis, and served as an archivist to the personal estates of Bud Abbott and Lou Costello. Ron Palumbo is an advertising creative director who's worked on dozens of famous campaigns and won every industry award. He's also the world's leading authority on Mr. Abbott and Mr. Costello and the founder of the official Abbott and Costello fan club along with Bob. He co-authored the essential book, Abbott and Costello in Hollywood, and the author of two must-have books in the Universal film script series,

Buck Privates the Screenplay and Holat Ghost the Screenplay, Colette goes to screenplay in addition to providing a liner notes and audio commentaries for many Abbott and Costello releases. Ron has written essays for the library of Congress on who's on first and Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein. And our returning champion, Leonard Mulder, is a historian, TV personality, an internationally recognized film scholar and critic, as well as the author of some of the most influential books on cinema and entertainment, including Of Mice and Magic, The Great Movie Comedians, Our Gang, The Life and Times of the Little Rascals, Leonard Moulton's movie Crazy, and Hooked on Hollywood. He edited and created the indispensable Leonard Moulton's movie guide and is currently the editor of Leonard Moulton's classic movie guide, along with his daughter, Jessie. Hope he also hosts the terrific podcast, Molten on Movies,

and his new board game, King of Movies, the Leonard Molten game, is available everywhere. Welcome, boys. Welcome. Is there any time left for the show? There's no time left. Any

one of you wants to jump in on this? I hope it's true that that board game is available everywhere. I just went into a liquor store to pick up a bottle of ginger ale. They didn't have it. I guess we should say everywhere board games are available.

Okay, that's good. So, which comedy team hated each other more? Abbott and Costello or Martin and Lewis? Oh, boy. What about Noonan and Marshall? Did Noonan and Marshall? Did they get in there? Did Noonan and Marshall dislike each other? No, I think they got along fine. I should stay out of this part of the conversation. Too dangerous. What do you think, Ron?

I think, you know, one of the things when we did the book, the director, Charles Lamont, who worked with Abbott and Costello at the end of their careers, he said that, have you ever heard of a famous comedy team that hasn't been accused of fighting and hating each other? And he said that he thought that the Abbott and Costello fights and all that was a publicity thing because he was with them all the time. He just said that the only time I saw them fighting was when they were playing cards. because he was with them all the time. He just said that the only time I saw them fighting was when they were playing cards. So I don't doubt that they did have, you know, strains in their relationship because they were with each other hours on end. They were with each other more than they were with their wives. So naturally, personalities are going to clash.

But generally, you know, if you hear the stories of people who were around them, they got along like brothers, and they fought like brothers. So you're saying Martin and Lewis. Gilbert, do you and I yet qualify as a comedy duo who have an intense dislike for each other? Yes. Okay, good. I don't know if it's comedy, but I never liked you.

Well, you know, I could address could address the Martin Lewis thing a little bit. You knew them both. I knew them, but I knew Jerry much better. And for many, many years from the last 40 years or so when he was here. But, you know, they were together as a team for 10 years. But, you know, they were together as a team for 10 years. And for the first seven or so of those years, they were as close as anybody could be. I mean, they were really, really tight. They had a great time. It really comes across in their live work.

If you see their Colgate Comedy Hour appearances and you see how much fun they're having. But, you know, that changed around 1954. And the last couple of years were really rocky but one of the myths about Dean and Jerry is that you know once they split they they did nothing but fight for the next two decades and that's not true they had a few rough years at first both of them said things in the press that they probably shouldn't have and I believe both regretted. But they did, you know, reestablish a relationship. They were not as close as they were, but, you know, they had a lot of reunions that people don't know about, including one in 1960 at the Sands when they both worked on stage together. Yeah, Bob, I'm glad you brought that up because everybody thinks

they hadn't seen each other or been on a stage together until Frank Sinatra set that up on Jerry's telethon. Right, right. But they had. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they had a lot of I did a 90th birthday event for Jerry at the Museum of Modern Art in New York. And one of the programs I presented was about the Martin and Lewis reunions. And there were several dozen of them over the years between 1956 and 76. And, you know, some private things, things that happened at Paramount and at Columbia on the lots when they were both working there on different projects. on the lots when they were both working there on different projects. Jerry even did a cameo on one of Dean Martin's TV shows because they were both working at NBC.

Unfortunately, Greg Garrison, Dean's producer, decided we don't really need that. And he cut it out. And that footage does not survive. But yeah, I mean, I've gone a long way to basically say what Ron said about Bud and Lou. They were together a great deal of time. They had their squabbles. But what team doesn't? What marriage doesn't?

And that's what it was. Ron, what was the nature of their relationship at the end when Lou passed in 59? What was the status? Yeah, they had broken up early in 57. What was the status? They weren't getting bookings. They were not with the studio. Universal had dropped their contract because they'd asked for too much money, in Universal's opinion, and they weren't getting any gigs. They weren't getting any television work. The TV series had been really socked by the IRS. They had no money coming in at the ends of their careers. Lou broke up the team. There's several reasons for that. They maybe had gotten to a point where they recognized that their type of comedy

was not working anymore. Also, maybe Lou wanted to try something else. I also think a very big factor was the fact that nobody was buying the act as Abbott and Costello. So Lou wanted to try it out on his own. And he also had said that if somebody comes to us with the right material, the right piece, the right thing, we'll do it. We'll get back together. So I don't know how that would have shaken out if Lou had lived longer. They probably would have gotten back together, I think.

But he died. Unfortunately, he died in 59. And well, yeah, Costello died. He was 52. And his health sounded bad throughout his whole life. Yeah, he had several bouts of rheumatic fever. The first one was in 1943. He was bedridden for seven months.

Right at the peak, they had just been the number one box office in 1940, at the end of 1942. And beginning of 1943, he's suddenly thrown into bedridden for seven months. And then, of course, at the end of that recovery period, his infant son drowned in the pool. And he was, again, not able to work for a little bit you know he was so distraught and then he had several recurring bouts of it i think in the in the late 40s and again in the early 50s where he was again uh bedridden for for uh several months at a time right bob any did you anything. I mean, in fact, you know, talking about this Abbott and Costello thing and the connection with some of the other work I've done with 3D restoration, they were going to do a 3D movie in 1953 called Fireman Saved My Child. And a second unit went up to San Francisco and shot stuff with their stunt doubles.

A second unit went up to San Francisco and shot stuff with their stunt doubles. And then I believe it was like the day they were going to leave. Luke collapsed and had to be hospitalized. And Universal had already shot enough footage of the film that they didn't want to completely scrap it. So they brought in Buddy Hackett and Hugh O'Brien to play because they had the similar builds as Bud and Lou. So his illness really affected several key points throughout their career. Yeah. I remember seeing Buddy Hackett on The Tonight Show many years ago talking about his very brief movie career in the 50s. And he said he had a contract with Universal International that said he couldn't make movies for anybody else. And after a couple of films, they typed in

or us either. I've never seen Fireman Save My Child. Is it is it any good? I haven't seen it. Shaking his head. No head no i saw it once i saw it once a very long time you know i've never found i didn't learn about it until i read leonard's movie comedy team's book and i was like oh my god this is mind-blowing that they weren't in that movie and then i saw the movie was on like some uhf channel and i was like oh my god thank god they didn't do this movie but also the director was was Charles Lamont, originally was Charles Lamont, and then he did the screen test for Hackett and Hugh O'Brien, and he said, I'm not going to do the movie.

So he asked off the movie when Abbott and Costello were off the movie, and Leslie Godwins, I think, wound up doing it. And of course— Go ahead, Gil. Go ahead. I was going to say, in a cruel twist of fate, Hackett winds up playing Lou all these years later. Well, you know, he wasn't the first choice, actually.

The first choice in the Bud and Lou movie were Dan Aykroyd and John Belushi, who wanted to do it, who wanted to play Abin and Costello. Did you know that, Gil? And Bernie their agent, Bernie Brillstein, said, uh-uh, because they were just really, the Blues Brothers was just starting to really connect. And they said, no, you're not going to do it. Of course, thank God they didn't because the movie turned out to be terrible. And then the other piece of news is that Buddy Hackett went to Frank Sinatra

and said, you want to play Bud Abbott? And Frank said, yeah, I'll play Bud Abbott. And NBC said, we don't want Frank Sinatra. Because I guess he'd done a TV movie or two and he was really hard to work with. I'm not sure what the rationale was, but NBC said, we don't want Frank. And then but he went but he got uh newhart bob newhart which were actually an interesting kind of choice and newhart uh eventually hemmed and hawed and took too long to to say he wanted to do it or not then he backed off and then buddy hackett was gonna quit and then they got uh harvey corman who is who's great i love harvey corman i love buddy hackett buddy hackett's hilarious hilarious, but not in these movies.

No, sir. Most importantly, in the movie, Artie Johnson comes in as, I think, Eddie Sherman. Eddie Sherman, yeah. And he gives, he sneaks him

a takeout strawberry malted to which Buddy Hackett says, I had a lot of strawberry malted in my day. You know that. But this one's

the best. And then he dies. And in a conversation. And now I'll never forget your rendering of that scene, Gilbert. Gilbert was forced to sign the same contract, Leonard. I didn't know Lou Costello was allergic to strawberry. That's news to me. In discussing this with Bob and Ron the other day at a pre-call that we had, that's not quite what happened with Lou.

No. I mean, it was pretty widely reported in all the papers that his last words were maybe not as dramatic as the strawberry malted, but he asked the nurse if she could help him roll on his side to be more comfortable. And that was it. And that's when he went. I don't know where that strawberry milkshake came from. I tell you, I saw that TV movie when that first aired. So I was I was around 16 or so. I still haven't gotten over it. That was unbelievably bad.

It's traumatizing. And the funny thing about it is it's like it's something funny. And the funny thing about it is it's like it's something funny. Yeah. When they do their routines, you'd think that the two of them never saw Abbott and Costello. There was no timing at all in it. Yeah. No, not at all. You can see that they're reading on cue cards. It's it's really it's very sad. Go ahead, Ron. No, especially when you see like the Laurel and Hardy movie, Stan and Ollie, which has just done so well, so affectionate. And again, the problem, the thing is that that movie was written by somebody who was a fan and really sent them a love letter. And the, the Abbott and Costello movie was kind of

the opposite. It was, you know, this Bob Thomas did the book with Eddie Sherman, who had an, apparently had an ax to grind. And a lot of the people that Bob Thomas talked to, I mean, Bob and I talked to these people, the same people. And even Jim Mulholland, who did the first Abbott and Costello book, which is a beautiful book that Leonard published back in the day. But Jim Mulholland and we and Chris Costello all interviewed the same people that Bob Thomas did. And we didn't get any of those horror stories that wound up in his book and then wound up in the movie portraying Lou as such a, you know, an SLB. Leonard, remember that period of Hollywood where they're churning out all those really offensively bad Hollywood biopics like Gable and Lombard and W.C. Fields and me? Unfortunately, I remember them very well. Valentino, I think, was another one.

You know, when will they quit? What can we do? What kind of a GoFundMe can we start to deny them the ability to make biopics? There was a Fatty Arbuckle thing with James Coco called The Wild

Party. Do you remember these pictures? Yeah, there was just a run on these awful bad Hollywood biopics. And all of them had that wonderful dialogue that would say, you know, well, Clark, you just did Gone with the Wind with Vivian Leigh. And look at it. It's 1939. And you're the top star at MGM. Bad exposition.

Yes. And then there's always that. In the Benny Goodman story, nobody's idea of a good movie. Yeah. Aileen McMahon plays Benny's mother. And throughout the film, she keeps saying, Benny, don't be that way. Don't be that way. Of course, that's the name of one of his first hit records. But if you want to have a real treat sometime, this is off topic, but if you really want to

give yourself a hearty evening of laughter, watch a movie directed by Alfred Hitchcock in England in the 30s called Waltzes from Vienna. It's a Strauss biography. Wow. And how he comes up with the idea for the Blue Danube Waltz and stuff like that. It's kind of a catalog of bad biopic tropes there was a tv movie i think called bogey and bacall about humphrey bogart and lauren bacall and the i forget the actor who played him but i guess he wanted to avoid you know a rich little impersonation So he didn't play it like Bogart at all. And he was going like he was be talking to Lauren Bacall and say, OK, I just finished

Casablanca and and we we did some we finished up the Maltese Falcon. And it was that's the one you got to see. Don't forget the man with Bogart's face. Oh, yeah. I think. Yep, yep, yep. Speaking of Bud and Lou, I found out doing research that Eddie Sherman worked with Bela Lugosi, which is kind of cool. Early on or later?

After Meet Frankenstein, he represented him for the spook shows, the live spook shows. Oh, he toured doing that for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Eddie Sherman represented a lot of the people in Bud and Lou's orbit, like the director, Charles Lamont, Hillary Brook, a few other people as well. So ultimately, Irene Ryan of Beverly Hillbillies and Jean Barry. Ultimately, Irene Ryan of Beverly Hillbillies and Gene Barry. Now, a connection with Dean Martin and Lou Costello is I think Dean Martin at one point, he was a bit of a conniver. And he would like have people he would agree and say, you'll you'll be my manager. And they'd give him money. They'd take care of him. And he'd have like, you know, 10 people at once who thought they were Dean Martin's man. And one of those was

Luke Costello, who paid for Dean Snow's job. Bob, comment on that? Yeah, I think at one point, Dean had something like 120% of his income paid to management. So he was definitely a little overextended in that area. And, you know, what was odd when I first got involved with working for the Abner Costello families, the first person I met with was was Carol Costello. And she was she was living with the dean martin's son craig so i think you know over the years some peace came and and brought that that group together but uh but yeah dean you know anybody that said hey you're great i want to sign you he'd sign the contract yeah i mean i heard one time costello went to a club that Martin and Lewis were playing at.

And after the show, Dean Martin wouldn't come out and talk to Lou Costello. So Jerry Lewis did. He probably felt he owed Lou too much money or something. Interesting. And of course, my most thing, I'm most curious about Abbott and Costello is I heard

Bud Abbott had the largest porn collection of any. Of course, that's Gilbert's area. I think they both did if you look at the FBI reports. So I think that was, you know, don't forget these guys came out of burlesque. So I don't know.

Maybe there's a. They like it. They like it. Yeah. Well, I could I could tell you by time I got into their libraries and in the mid 80s, the stuff was scattered everywhere. Carol Costello was storing her dad's films in a pantry closet off the kitchen. The Bud Abbott stuff was some of it was in Vicky's garage. Some of it was at Beacon Storage. And I pulled all that stuff in to go through it and catalog

it and see what was there. I didn't find anything like those FBI reports. So whatever they had was long gone by the 80s. The only thing Bud had was a single reel, 16 millimeter. It was maybe like an eight minute film. And it was called A Night at the Zamba Club. And I said, wow, that's kind of an interesting. It's not I know it's not a castle film. So what is this? And I put this thing on and it was, yeah, it was

strippers, and you know, like 1940s and that kind of thing. So I said, wow, the Zamba Club, I'd like to know more about it. It turned out it was in Studio City on Ventura Boulevard, and the building was still there in the 80s, except it had become Oil Can Harry's,

and that was a very popular gay hangout at that time. So, you know, these things all run in circles, and whatever Bud or Lou may have had, the films were long gone. Good for Bud. The Zomba Club, by the way, was run by a guy named Murray Teff at one point, who was Bud's stunt double and Man Friday for a very long time time until he punched Bud's chauffeur in the jaw and dislocated it because the chauffeur was saying, Murray's stealing from you.

And of course, Murray was not stealing from him. So he got angry. And that's how he lost his job as Bud's stunt double. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. Baseball is finally back. Get in on Major League action and swing for the fences with BetMGM, the king of sportsbooks. Log in or sign up to play along as BetMGM brings the real-time action.

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So bold and so dreamy. It's the coolest co-pilot for wherever the sunshine takes you. Embrace the chill, the silky cold foam of that anticipated first sip, and join us on summertime only at Starbucks. I'm going to ask you guys to go way back and remember, if you can, your first impression or your first A&C experience. Can you remember? I'd love to hear Leonard's first. Yeah, Leonard, let's start with you.

Well, I grew up in Teaneck, New Jersey, you know, just a spitting distance of New York. So I had New York television. That meant I was watching them on WPIX, Channel 11. And I don't remember a time when they weren't in my life through television. Interesting. I did see, I remember seeing Jack and the Beanstalk at a Saturday Kitty matinee because I found out later on when I got wise to all of this, I'm the last generation that went to Saturday matinees. That's so sounds like the Cro-Magnon era. It's so long ago. But what happened was the theater managers would call the exchanges.

Universal had a local print exchange and all the majors did. They did in every major American city and they would have the current films to service the theaters. But they would keep prints around for second run theaters and for kiddie matinees. And that's how I saw every Francis the Talking Mule movie, every Mom Pod Kettle movie, and occasionally an Abbott and Costello. Wow. Or the Bowery Boys. The Bowery Boys. Bob, do you remember yours?

Oh, yeah. Well, I was born in 1961, and by the time I became aware of things in the mid 60s, those kiddie matinees had stopped right now doing research for the Jack and the Beanstalk restoration. And that film was still getting bookings in kiddie matinees and even drive-ins into the early 60s. By the mid 60s, the kiddie matinees were over. But my exposure was television. Also grew up in New Jersey. So I go back a little bit. I can remember Channel 9 ran them constantly.

We had the Million Dollar Movie where, you know, if you missed it Monday night, there was Tuesday night. If you missed it Tuesday and Wednesday, they ran the same film for 10 times a week. You could memorize it, but, you know, that was better than having a VCR. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But that was it. We all, you know, I think all of us in our generation grew up with that kind of exposure to not just Abbott and Costello, but Laurel and Hardy, the three students and all the classic films that we know and love so much.

So, yeah, it was it was not hard to become an Abbott and Costello fan growing up at that time. And I remember they used to show the Bowery Boys too. Well, we all we all grew up on the same coast. So I think maybe that gave us an advantage because we were all watching Channel 9 and Channel 11. You too, Ron? Yeah, absolutely. Abbott and Costello, again, meetenstein and hold that ghost for a million dollar movie and uh i just became entranced with that you know the idea of it being scary at one moment and funny at another was really you know captured my attention and uh also in the tv series when you came home after school you'd watch the abott and Costello TV series. The lineup was like the Three Stooges, Abbott and Costello, Adventures of Superman.

It was a little rascals were on. Officer Joe would show those things. I think I discovered the series before any of the films. Yeah, I think I did, too. And then when I started to see the films and again, Leonard's first book, the movie comedy team's book, I had no idea there were that many films that Abbott and Costello would make because I'd only seen the few that were the handful that were shown on Channel 9. And then eventually Channel 11 got the whole package in the early 70s.

And that became a Sunday morning staple, you know. Yes, which they refused to call the Abbott and Costello show or the Abbott and Costello movie of the week. They had this generic title like Sunday matinee or Sunday movie. That's right. And like seven years, eight years, nine years of every weekend in a row, they refused to acknowledge that it was always going to be an Abbott and Costello movie. I never figured that out.

Somebody was sitting at home waiting for Ben Hur to come on, and then, Scott, it's Abed and Costello again. Surprise, it's another Abed and Costello movie. Oh, and on that TV show, if you could fill me in more, and I always thought Sid Fields was really funny. Brilliant. He was. He was.

You're not the only one. I mean, he was a great straight man back in the day. In fact, he worked with Lou Costello before Costello worked with Abbott in Jersey and Patterson, as a matter of fact, at the Orpheum when that was a burlesque house in the early 30s. So Lou knew him from way back. And Sid Fields was also a great sketch writer. He wrote a version of Slowly I Turned, step by step, inch by inch. And he also wrote the Susquehanna Hat bit with Joey Fay. He was part of that group, mostly Joey Fay, but Sid contributed to that as well. So he was a great writer and he wound up writing, I want to say like 20 episodes of the TV series, Bob.

At least, yeah. At least 20 episodes of the TV series. And he was just, he came up with bits. I mean, he knew all these old burlesque bits and he would put them in there and then they, everybody had different versions of it. You know, it's kind of like, I wanted to mention the aristocrats joke, you know, Gilbert, it's like burlesque bits had this, you had the premise and then you had to get to the punchline and everything in between was whatever you came up with. And that's the way all these burlesque sketches were. There were certain notes you had to hit, but everything in the middle was your, how good you were at coming up with bits to fill the moments inside and making it your own, you know, really showing your creativity.

to fill the moments inside and making it your own, you know, really showing your creativity as a comic. I was concerned with the environment back then, but this was the comedy version of recycling. Exactly. Exactly. It was so funny growing up. I heard Niagara Falls so many times from so many different people. I think it was on an I Love Lucy episode. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah. It showed up everywhere. Also, when I would watch Abbott and Costello's TV show as a kid, Joe Bessa as Stinky scared me. Robessa as Stinky scared me. Well, I think that TV show introduced a whole generation to the concept of surrealism. Oh, absolutely. Because it's so bizarre.

I mean, they kind of give you the ground rules. They live in this apartment house. Their landlord is the ill-tempered Mr. Field. Don't forget his brother, Melonhead. The neighborhood cop is Mike the Cop, played by Gordon Jones. And they go to call on their

very elegant neighbor, Hillary Brook. What is she doing there? What is she doing there? Exactly. And then there's Stinky. Joe Besser was a naturally funny man. He was just funny.

And they got the best of him. They really got the best use out of him in that role. really got the best out, best use out of him in that role. But try to explain it to a person in a rational way who's never seen the show or heard of Joe Besser. It's you just had to be there. You forgot Bingo the chimp. Oh, yes. We forget. And Mr. Bacigaloo. And Mr. Bacigaloo. I remember, like I was saying before, giving information to the audience. My my all time favorite was on Abbott and Costello where they have to they come up with some scheme and they have to get print out a bunch of signs or whatever. And Abbott says, hey, remember that printing press you got on your birthday?

Is that the one where they wallpaper the apartment with the savings bonds? That's probably it. Sawing through the wall. It was one of those where you listen and go, okay. Yeah, I buy it. It could happen. Now I heard that Bingo and Lou did not get along. Bingo the chimp.

Yeah. Any takers on this? Yeah, Bingo bit both Sid Fields and Lou Costello at some point. Sid Fields told a story to Jim Mulholland, actually. He said, I got bitten by the chimp. I'm taken to the hospital, and the guy goes, what happened to actually. He said, I got bitten by the chimp. I'm taking it to the hospital.

And the guy goes, what happened to you? He says, I got bit by a chimp. He says, where'd you get bit by a chimp? And Sid says, I'm working with Abbott and Costello. You're working with Abbott and Costello? My kids love them. Can I get an autograph? And he's like, Mike, what about my finger?

You know, I got bit by a chimp. So it's a great story. But he made the mistake. Bingo made the mistake of biting Lou, and that was it. Actually, if you watch the episodes with Bingo, Bingo punches Lou. It's really funny, and Costello's kind of afraid of him. If you really watch closely, you can see the body language. But Hillary got along with Bingo great, and Bud even talks to Bingo the way he talks to Costello.

Cut it out! It's hilarious. But you're going to talk about Bud Abbott. We talk a little bit about some of the rumors about their fights and stuff, but we really should talk about the talent of each of those guys. And Bud Abbott was just amazing. I mean, he's actually as funny as Costello in his own way. I mean, you know, he's steering the shit.

Yeah. I always thought if you're a true Abbott and Costello fan, you realize Abbott's the funny one. He, I mean, what I love, well, like in who's on first base, you know,, Costello says, you know, I'm a pretty good catcher myself. And he goes, so they tell me. That's not a joke, but it's so funny. And when it happened in Costello meet Frankenstein, Costello's doing is, you know, and, you know, he can't, he's trying to mime Frankenstein and Dracula.

And Abbott just goes, OK, OK, put your hands up. But also, I mean, as Leonard said, he kind of steered the ship, but he also had a delivery that was just a joy to watch. Oh, yes.

I know they're doing the routine where he comes in and Lou is reading a comic book. And Bud gets into this bit where he's been out looking for a job all day. And he finally got a job and he's loafing in a bakery. And they go into this whole routine. And at one point, Bud gets, you know, very like kind of fatherly. He puts his hand on Lou's shoulder and he says, you know, I never told you, but my whole family were loafers. My father was a bigger loafer than Lou. What a warm moment. Who said he was the greatest straight man ever? Groucho said that, didn't he?

Yeah. About he? Yeah. About Bud? Yeah. Quite a compliment. Groucho. Yeah, of course. And Tom Smothers said that his brother Dickie modeled the act, modeled his performance on Bud Abbott and the hostility toward throwing the sympathy on Tommy by being angry and know, angry and, and, uh, you know,

kind of admonishing him. So he's a huge fan of Abbott, of Bud Abbott. Well, he picked the right role model because there's nobody better at that. Nobody better. It's true. And when they do who's on first, you realize what makes the bit work is it's a completely ridiculous premise and Abbott sells it that you think, oh, this makes perfect sense. Who's on first? Well, they both believe it. See, they both are very much in that world and the universe of that verbal bit. And, uh, you know, no one could, no one could stop them or interrupt them and say, wait a minute, what are you talking about? Because they're, they're, they're, they're in it. They're engaged. You could make the argument that, that, uh, because Bud is such a good actor, he turned out to be a good actor. He's because that's part of

selling it. Absolutely. He's invested in the moment. I mean, one of the things about that routine that Lou talked about, somebody asked them if he ever got tired of doing it. And he said, no, because Abbott's always trying to trip me up and I'm always trying to trip him up. So that's how they, that's kind of how they kept it fresh, you know, and they did it maybe a thousand times. I mean, their press agent said 15,000, but that's ridiculous. That'd be like twice a day for every day that they were together, which would be, you know, I would, they probably wind up killing each other if they did it that often. But, um, but that was one of the secrets of the routine was to keep it fresh was to, to, um, but they also, you could also see in certain versions where they get lost in it for a little bit themselves, and then they come out of it. You know, so it's a brilliant routine.

And they, you know, that's a lot of Norman Abbott, Bud's nephew, credited Lou with really, you know, adopting the routine out of burlesque and making them work on it to become the great routine, because it had been around in different forms for, for decades, really. It was something called, you know, Weber and Fields had done Watts. I work on Watts street. And, uh, there was another one called, uh, who's the boss who's, you know, who's your boss or who's the boss. I read that Phil Silvers and rags Raglan did it too. Yeah. Well, Phil said he did it in the, uh, in the documentary, Bob, the documentary, Bob, the Hey Abbott. Ah, okay.

Remember that? So it had been around for a long time. Yeah, no, it had been around. But not in the form that Bud and Lou did. Of course, of course. No, I think, I mean, it was like a short story, the way the other guys did it, and they just kept piling bits into it and adding outfielders and all that, and doubling back, you know. Sometimes his wife comes down and collects it and all that and doubling back you know sometimes

his wife comes down and collects it whose wife yes you know i throw the ball to who naturally i throw the ball to who naturally oh so i throw it to naturally no you don't that i mean they get they added all this stuff i like when they move into the payment when you pay the first basement every month who gets the money every dollar every that's right why not the man's entitled to it who is that and bud is just so defiant he's like why don't you get this what's so what's so hard about this yeah i don't like he sells that to the audience where you go well absolutely yeah yeah this all makes sense i don't know if i should admit to this, but one time in the 70s, you remember the 70s, it was in all the papers. And I wrote a variation on that bit using the names of popular rock groups of the time, like The Who and Yes.

And I thought I had it down pretty well. But the fact that it never appeared on the air or in print anywhere tells you my opinion may have been the only one. Johnny Carson did one, too. Well, you know, I was just going to say about the routine, you know, you think about it and you think, well, it's surefire and anybody could could put this across well look at Buddy Hackett and Harvey Korman doing it it just lays a huge egg and it's it's one of the real brilliant things about Bud and Lou was was their timing their their delivery and I think with the TV show that was something I don't remember who told me this, but that Lou really wanted to produce the show so that he would have what he felt were the definitive versions of all these great classic bits that they did. And, you know, if they hadn't done these both in TV and in movies, how many of these routines would be remembered now?

I mean, they really captured them for generations. I love the fact that they actually opened the show, the first season anyway, on a stage in front of a curtain and had a chorus girl come out and hold a uh a card listing the guest stars in that segment which i've never understood as a kid what's that who's she what's she doing there and uh and they're on stage in their uh typical outfits lou with the the the oversized pants and the derby hat with the narrow brim. And then they would be cut away from the stage. You'd only see it at the beginning and the end of the show.

It was kind of a wraparound. Again, a concept that I never thought about twice as a kid because I just liked them. And they're funny. It made the show even more surreal. You talked about surrealism before. And then they go into essentially skits playing characters named Bud Abbott and Luke Costello. But they're broke, deadbeats. They're not really themselves. But, you know, Bud's got the tie clip with his name on it. You know, he's got the monogrammed handkerchief. I mean, it's it's so classic how they would cross those lines of, you know, doing a sketch or playing themselves. In fact, when I was recently,

somebody had asked who played that girl holding the cue cards. Nobody knew. So I dug through some documents and I found it was a singer named Marguerite Campbell who played the part. But the initial idea for that stage set is they were not only going to have the curtain behind them, they were going to have their logos on the curtain, you know, like they did on the Colgate Comedy Hour show. So then it gets even more confusing. I think that was part of the thing. It's like there was this kind of hybrid between Colgate's and old time short subjects, you know. So it's kind of make that make that transition.

But Ron, why would the routines change like Flugel Street and Bagel Street? And in Whodunit, the phone gag is Alexander 2222. And in the TV series, as we all remember. Far, far, far, far. Far, far, far, far. Why did they monkey with them that way? I think Bagel Street was probably some other comics version of Flugel Street. Flugel Street was written by Joey Fay.

So Bagel Street. street flugel street was written by uh joey fay so bagel who came paying bagel street and actually they got sued by joey fay for using it in in society uh but even though sid fields was writing material for in society and he had contributed to flugel street so there's a whole kind of uh you know gordian knot of credits there to untangle, you know, but I think that I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, I was, I was going to say, it's just this, this is the most eerie thing to me. When Costello died, Abbott found another partner by the name of Candy Candido. by the name of Candy Candido. Can we talk about him first?

Have you ever heard Candy Candido? He was a regular on Jimmy Durante's radio show for many years. And his whole shtick involved that he could do a falsetto voice. I'm going to try it. It sounded like a little girl's voice, way, way up high. And then go very, very, very, very low. And his catchphrase was, I'm feeling so low. And Durante just sort of adopted him.

And he later did a lot of incidental voices for Disney cartoons. You can look up his credits if you have nothing else to do with your life. And you know we don't. Of Mice and Men, I think he's in there. So he was around, he was the show business guy, and he turns up in small parts in movies, the 30s and 40s. And I once got him on Entertainment Tonight on our weekend show and had lunch with him before we shot the segment. And my boss said to me afterwards, he he failed to understand uh my reasoning in giving this guy two and a half minutes of airtime but i liked it that's good well i think yeah you know i think bud wanted to work again

and and ron you could you could i'm sure talk a little bit more about this. But I remember one thing Bud Abbott Jr. told me about that period in his dad's life. He wanted to do some things. He did a General Electric theater with Lee Marvin called, was it? Jokes on Me. And he was not getting his check. And he kept waiting and waiting for this paycheck to show up. And he finally called up and found out that, you know, Uncle Sam had taken everything. And at that point, his dad just said, well, why bother?

Why work? You know, and he stayed retired for a few years until the cartoons in the mid 60s. And, you know, that's a whole other world of incredibly wonderful Bud Abbott quotes. If you ever listen to those cartoons and some of the things where he's talking about atomic ray guns and nuclear reactors and all these things. Put down that atomic bomb. Don't touch the man's bomb.

Stuart, right? That's right. Yeah. Yeah. But he and Ron, how many shows did Bud do with Candy Candido? Do you recall? He did a few live shows with him, I think maybe six or seven, maybe. And they got good reviews. You know, the Variety gave him a very good review. They did a place called the Holiday House in Pittsburgh, which apparently was a big venue. And eventually, I think, Bud just, he did get sick, I think, at one point on the tour. And then I think he just kind of lost his heart for it because he didn't think that it was the same as working with Lou, he said. You know, he was quoted as saying nobody could live up to Lou. So, I mean, you know, think about Bud Abbott. I mean, he was in burlesque many years before he teamed with Lou. He had seen dozens of comics, you know, from backstage, from working in box offices, even from his father's days as his father was an

advanced man for the Mutual, not Mutual, for the Columbia Burlesque Wheel. So Bud had grown up around burlesque and he'd seen dozens and dozens of comics. And when he finally saw Lou, he's like, this is the guy, you know, and the same thing for Lou. Lou had worked with many straight men and he went, this is, you know, he's the best straight man in the business. It was meant to be. And Abbott was an epileptic.

Right. And there were stories that sometimes Costello could sense when one of Abbott's epileptic fits was starting. Yeah, a seizure. Yeah. Yeah. And then Lou could punch him in the solar plexus and that would bring him out of it. could uh or punch him in the solar plexus and that would bring him out of it so uh apparently it wasn't that often but it could it did happen on the set once in a while and one of the reasons that bud had this uh this guy uh murray teff around he was also to take care of him in case

he did get a seizure and and uh but apparently you know think about being a performer who has to go out in front of a live audience, and you're worried about having a seizure in front of your live audience. Thousands of people have come to see you. So Costello's punch worked like a defibrillator, something that would shock his body. I guess. And I guess having been a boxer for a little bit of his life, uh, helped with that for Costello. He, you know, he tried amateur boxing for a, for a few months or so. A lot of boxing scenes with Lou in the ring. Yeah. And he's awesome. He's an invisible man.

Buck Privates. Buck Privates. Yeah, absolutely. So, so, so Ron, do we have the year right? Because we talked about the 85th anniversary. I mean, if they don't start officially working together as a duo till 36, do they, do they work together for the first time in 35, which we said was 85 years ago? Yeah. At the Eltinge theater named after Julian Eltinge, who was a famous female impersonator who drew crowds and they built the theater for his performance. Believe it or not. He was a, he was huge. He was a huge star. Uh, and,

um, but by that point, you know, uh, during the depression, like half of the theaters on Broadway were dark because there was, nobody was coming to Broadway because it was a depression. So the theater owners,

uh, started leasing them out to burlesque companies. And that was one of them, the Eltinge. And by 1935, it had been open a few years. And Abbott and Costello were on the same bill with their different partners. Abbott had Harry Evanson and Lou had Joe Lyons, a Canadian born straight man. And Lyons was ill for whatever reason, and Bud did a scene with him. He actually, they did the lemon bit, the lemon table routine was their first routine together.

I like to say that, you know, Huzon first made them famous, but the lemon table brought them together. And they went their separate ways because they had booked on other circuits, and then they came back about early in January of 36. They teamed up and they got they went to work for the Minsky's and they had worked for the Minsky's separately before that. But then they went out on the Minsky's circuit after that. So and I remember seeing Lou do the Lemon Bit and Crazy House and a couple of other of those burlesque standbys on the Steve Allen primetime show. This is in the 50s. So I was very, very young. But the memory is so vivid to me because it was Lou Costello. And there he was on live TV. It was, you know, even to a young kid, that was that was really exciting. And I remember one of the shows that he was on

was one that Steve did from Havana. Obviously, before Fidel came to power, they did a remote episode of the Sunday Night Primetime show from Havana, Cuba, with Lou. Was Hyman Roth in that episode also? Just offstage, Just offstage. Just offstage. There was this story that I've heard a few times saying that the last nail in the coffin of their teamwork was Lou Costello's maid.

That was earlier. That was in the 40s. That was a big rift in 1945 where Costello fired a maid and Abbott hired her because she was dating his butler or chauffeur and Costello went, you've got to fire the maid.

And he says, I'm not firing the maid. It's a free country. I can hire whoever I want. And that they were just about to go out on a on a tour and they had a big fight and they didn't speak to each other except on stage during that. And then later on, Costello said, you know, that was really a ridiculous reason to have a fight. But they almost the act was, you know, all of the gossip columnists carried it, that they weren't speaking and they're breaking up and Universal's going to move movies with Costello or Universal's not going to do movies with Costello and all this stuff. So, you know, back then, you know, you had this hot copy. They were they were still very big, very popular stars. And, you know, I just watched on YouTube

the This Is Your Life episode that Ralph Edwards did. Oh, my God. I watched that recently. Yeah. And and Bud refers to their breakup of 1945 and says, you know, it was just stubbornness. And, you know, there was no good reason for it to happen. And it's so, so frighteningly bad taste where he delivers that in like a real game show host fashion and goes, and we'll be hitting upon the time that

the saddest thing that could happen in any man's life, the death of his child. And then later in the show when they start talking about it, I think they play Pagliacci. So you'll know that it's sad.

Early television. Here's a listener question from a friend of ours, Bob Greenberg, who does a pretty good Lou Costello. Gilbert, you'll love this. I've always been unclear about Bud's Jewish roots. I ran into Bud Jr.

at a convention years ago and he was wearing a Star of David. Any takers on this one? Leonard? I know nothing about this. But I'm willing to learn. Bud Abbott's mother was Jewish. And then Bud married, when Bud got remarried, I think, to his wife, the same wife. They had another ceremony in the 1950s where they do it. They did a Jewish ceremony, but Bud had been married by a minister originally.

But I don't know if, I don't think he practiced. I mean, Bob, do you, did Bud Jr. ever say anything about it? No, I don't recall. No. I mean, Bud went? No, I don't recall. No. I mean, Bud was a Lutheran. I mean, the family was raised Lutheran, I believe. I was trying to give you one there, Gil. I know.

I did hear about that he was Jewish. You've got all the Stooges. Come on. And the Marxists. And the Marxists. And the Marx Brothers, for God's sake. Exactly. Here's another one from Jonathan Winchell.

Do you guys all agree that Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein is by far the team's best film? And if not, what is your opinion of the best film? Leonard? Well, I think it's not only their best film, but it's a terrific movie. Yes. By any standard, by any measure. And Time has been very kind to that movie. It looks better than ever. And Charles Barton did a great job as a director. And I heard he was a comic himself.

I'm not sure. I don't think he was a comic. He had been, he'd acted in some movies and then he worked his way up from like a prop man to assistant director. And then he became a director, but he directed so many comedies. I mean, movies and TV episodes, episodic television. And Joe Besser, I think said that, you know, he was one of the best comedy directors around at the time. They were comfortable with him. Yeah. We haven't talked about their home movies or their outtakes, their notorious outtakes.

Please do. I hope Bobby Barber shows up in some of those outtakes. You bet he does. I have to mention Bobby Barber because I promise, you know, it's just a gift to Drew Friedman. Bobby Barber because I promise, you know, it's a, it's a, just a gift to Drew Friedman. Well, I was, I was enjoying, uh, uh, Bob Firmeneck is, uh, responsible for, uh, putting out Africa screams and a, just a gorgeous, gorgeous Blu-ray copy. And it has among the extra features on it are, uh, outtakes on it, are outtakes. And to call them outtakes is really stretching the definition.

Because these were like in-joke gags. Like you do stuff for a Christmas reel. And that was the equivalent in Abbott and Costello's case. So, I mean, they're fun. Well, I've seen like Glenn Strange cracking up when Lou's sitting on his lap in Frankenstein. I've seen some of them. Bob, did you make any, did you make any other discoveries? Any, uh, well, yeah, the outtakes are fascinating because I believe Lou may have been one of the first, if not the first, to ask studio editors to assemble a gag reel,

or they called them blow-ups. He started doing it in 1942. I think, pardon my sauron, was the first blow-up reel. And he did it for almost every film up until Africa Screams. Leonard, are you aware of any other actors or stars requesting gag reels of their movies at that time? Not really. I mean, you know, those Warner Brothers blow up reels from the late 30s, but that was done by the studio for a Christmas party. And I don't know of any of any other stars or celebrities who who did things like that. By the way, you just in passing, you mentioned this title. I think about that. We're in the year 2020. Would you expect to open a newspaper or go online and see a movie title of today called Pardon My Sarong?

Gilbert's in the X-rated version of that. That's a film that only could have existed then. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast, but first, a word from our sponsor. When your celebration of life is prepaid in advance, it becomes a gift from you to your family later because no one should have to plan for a loss

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lineup of summer must-tries from the PC Insiders Report Summer Edition. Like our new flake-outs, must-tries from the PC Insiders Report Summer Edition. Like our new flake-outs, there are delicious twists on the croissant donut with 24 layers of croissant flakiness twisted with fancy donut fun. Get ready to go all out for less. And someone told

me that Lucas Stello was in an episode of Wagon Train. Yeah, that's on one of the, MeTV runs that series, Boyd's Wagon Train, and you can actually catch it if you know when it's going to be on. But it's been on and he's pretty good. He's really good in it. It's a dramatic role.

He plays a drunkard. And it's a little bit, it's interesting to see him in that role because he doesn't play for laughs at all. It's interesting to see him in that role because he doesn't play for laughs at all. Bob, tell us about some of the challenges of restoring Africa Screams and Jack and the Beanstalk, two that you took on recently. Yeah, I mean, they were both independent productions. And Jack and the Beanstalk, which is the current project that we're working on, is an enormous challenge because the original elements are gone. The 35 millimeter color negative, the red, blue and yellow color separation masters that were made to protect the film are gone. And I've gone back to records back to the late 50s

when the rights were sold to a company in New York called Sterling Television, they didn't even get the elements then. So these materials have been missing for decades. And it is challenging because in the case of Jack and the Beanstalk, we have to do our restoration from release prints that actually played theaters. played theaters. And for a film like Jack and the Beanstalk, that was so enormously popular and played for so many years, it's a real uphill battle to get very pristine copies. But thankfully, I've been pretty successful in locating good material and there's enormous opportunities to clean things up digitally now. and things that you couldn't do years ago when all the work was done photochemically or optically on film. So we're going to have a version that's going to be pretty outstanding. And I think fans are

going to really enjoy it. But if I can just go back to one point that you were making about their your favorite film or their best film. Yeah. And one thing that I've tried to do over the years, anytime I've had an opportunity to show their films to an audience, I've tried to go a little bit out of the safe area. You know, everybody can do Buck Privates or Meet Frankenstein, but I've gone with some of the more obscure ones. Buck Privates or Meet Frankenstein. But I've gone with some of the more obscure ones. And what's been really surprising in every single case, when shown with an audience, even the things you think are really poor, like Abbott and Costello, Go to Mars or Meet Captain Kidd, they come to life on the big screen. I'll bet. And the audiences respond and there's a laughter and it's, you know, it's it just gives the film a whole new appreciation that you don't get when you're watching it on television by yourself. Yeah. You're doing the Lord's work, Bob. Well, thank you. So bravo. Thank you very much. It's important work.

There was a man who was like the third string film critic at the New York Times for many years named Howard Thompson. He was a very good writer and very witty. And for many years, he did their TV listings. And one of my all-time favorites doesn't express my sentiment, but I have to admire the joke because the listing said, Abbott and Costello go to Mars, and his comment was, and about time. Didn't he also write Lost in Alaska, Lost in Alaska, Lost is right? Yeah. It brings to mind the classic Leonard Maltin movie guide review for Isn't It Romantic,

Leonard, which is my favorite thing of all time. This got me in the Guinness Book of World Records. And it was a reader who submitted it because the review is no. So shortest review of all time. That's perfect. I mean, it's not a highly informative review, I grant you, but I couldn't resist. You know, speaking of Bud as a good actor, and he was given a chance to act, you guys talk about it in your book, Bob and Ron and Abbott and Costello and Hollywood,

that a movie like Time of Their Lives gives him something different to do. And you guys make the argument that it proves that he could have been a character actor. He gets to be the hero in that one too, which is a rare thing. Yeah, I think he's not used to working without Lou. Anybody's working with these other characters in context. And he only has a scene with Lou

at the very beginning of the movie, but he really does carry the film. And you're right. He's the butt of Lou's anger as a spirit, and he's also the guy who redeems himself at the end. So he does carry a lot of the movie. In fact, so much so that at one point, Costello wanted to switch parts. So he stayed away from the set for a few days until you know they actually asked and they said no we're not going to switch parts you're playing the ghost and that was it and it

turned out to be great because you know it's a very touching film also you know with in that in his character you know being uh bound to the earth and things and let's talk about some of the other, after the success of Meet Frankenstein, there was Meet Jekyll and Hyde. The killer. Oh, yeah. Meet the Invisible Man. Boris Karloff. And Meet the Mummy. By then, Abbott was putting on weight.

Well, Lou had just been sick again. Lou had just been sick again. He'd lost a lot of weight. So that's why the scales were balanced differently there. Meet the Mummy is the last Universal picture, Ron? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

I kind of like it in spite of the fact that it isn't prime. I think it's, I think it's good. I think it's a bounce back from Lost in Alaska. That's for sure. Me too. I agree. I mean, I like the middle ones i may be in the minority i mean i like in society i like uh uh i'm sure there's a lot to like there

yeah i like naughty 90s i i know they're not considered top five i have whodunit is one of my favorites the first one without music yeah i like whodunit very much and whodunit has the little homage to who's On First. Exactly. Two of them. There's the Watt and Volt bit. Watt's and Volt. And then there's the bit where the routine is playing on the radio, because they're famous enough at that point to parody themselves. Yeah, that's a great moment in that movie. It's really funny when they turn on the radio and hear themselves. It's good. I like. I like pardon my sarong a lot. And, um, I also like the, I like these service comedies as well. Um, you know,

but privates is a great one. I hold that ghost is probably right. Equal with Frankenstein. I mean, I really, uh, Joan Davis is, can't be, you know, you can't beat Joan Davis in that movie, you know, and she's really funny in that and perfectly suited to work with Costello in The Moving Candle. But, you know, where are you watching? Go ahead, Leonard. Okay. And I've been waiting.

I thought this was going to finally be the night and I would have the opportunity for somebody to say to me that Dance With Me, Henry, is their favorite. I'll bet when you show that to an audience it does not resurrect it on the screen i listen i like hit the ice i want to stand up for that one too that's a great one too who done it's terrific our friend frank conniff does a uh does an audio commentary on that one with With Meet Frankenstein, also what was important with that movie was they had the brains to finally bring Bela Lugosi back. Yes, I mean, but that's just it. You have the authentic, the authenticity of the universal horror, you know, atmosphere, as well as the actual actors. That's Lon Chaney Jr. He was Larry Talbot, the wolf man. Fela Lugosi, he was Dracula. And Glenn Strange, you know, was new to that role,

or fairly new to that role, but he's great. And he hasn't called on to do the kind of acting that Karloff, you know, was required to do and did so well in the 1930s. But it's great to be able to do a parody so authentically. Yeah. The comedy exists as comedy and the horror ingredients exist intact by themselves and stand on their own legs. Yeah, you really have to credit Robert Lees and Fred Rinaldo, the screenwriters who really put that together. I mean, they were given the basic idea, you know, make it, have it, still let me, Frank, it's not go, go right. And then they, you know, basically it took a while to coalesce into the idea of, you know, using Costello's brain, which is another great linchpin idea for a movie, right?

You're not only meeting Abbott and Costello, you're not only meeting Frankenstein, but Costello is literally going to become Frankenstein. So it has so many levels of underscore there. Well, Karloff's fear was that they were going to make fun of the monsters, make them look ridiculous. And I think Chaney was quoted years later as saying that they turned the monsters into buffoons. And I think the opposite is true. I think that's what makes the movie work, is the monsters are respected. Absolutely. Maybe in lesser hands, that would not have been the case. Quick question from our friend Wally Matthews about that movie. Was Lou accidentally punched in the face by

Glenn Strange because he was standing on the wrong mark? Not sure that you can count that as accidentally because they said he deliberately stood on the wrong mark. Interesting. You know, what's funny is like about that movie and people have talked about this, but like Lou Costello hated the script, right? He didn't want to do it originally and had to be talked into doing some major scenes, like the scene of the candles moving on the coffin. He didn't want to do that. He didn't want to sit in the monster's lap and he had to be convinced. And then, of course, it wound up being those are so iconic moments of that movie, you know.

But like so many artists don't recognize what, you know, their great work at the time. You know, I heard Springsteen didn't want to release Born to Run and Woody Allen is not fond of Manhattan, you know, and Costello didn't like this movie, but sometimes an artist doesn't recognize his best work. Yeah. I was lucky enough to interview Bob Lees, the co-writer of this and several other films. And what a nice man. And he was proud of this movie. It was not something, you know, that he he did, you know, to punch a time clock and forgot about. He knew it was good. Yeah, I like to also Frank. Frank Skinner's score is so good in that movie. Oh, yeah. It really is. It really contributes quite a lot. And one thing, I mean, this guy was, you know, really like the king of the monster films.

And he worked a lot with the Abedin Costello monster films was the stuntman Eddie Parker. Does anyone know about him? Any backstory on him? Well, I know a few years ago, lot of research was done uh on a group the classic horror film board about the the frankenstein meets the wolfman and all the uh extra the footage that was done for that film because initially legosi's character had dialogue and was blind and they removed all of those references. So they had several different actors come in to do the stand in work and stunt work. But I don't think Eddie Parker worked on me. Frankenstein. Ron, do you remember if he was?

You know, Glenn Strange broke his ankle in one scene and Lon Chaney put on the monster makeup to finish the shot. It's in the laboratory when he, after he throws the doctor out of the window. And then actually another stunt guy did some of the stuff on the pier. I forgot his name now. So actually three guys played Frankenstein and Abedin is telling me Frankenstein, not the scene where the monster is on fire, but another scene, one of the night shots. You told me they consider Chaney playing two parts at one point. Yeah, one of the early memos was something about, you know, getting Lon Chaney to play the monster and the wolf man, which I don't know how you were going to reconcile that. But then again, if you had another stunt man playing the monsters from behind or whatever,

you could probably get away with it. But I mean, think about Lon Chaney. He could, you know, how much, how many hours he'd have to be in that makeup chair to do both of those parts.

But Jack Pierce was gone by that point. And they were using the Westmore masks. Yeah. Right. And she, when they did Frankenstein meets the Wolfman, their original idea was to have Chaney in both parts. Yeah.

Yeah. Right. But I think, you know, one interesting thing about Boris Karloff and Abedin Cassell meet Frankenstein, he turned down the offer to do the film because, you know,

he felt spoofing the monster was not appropriate or whatever. But the year earlier, he did the secret Life of Walter Mitty with Danny Kaye. And again, very recently, within just the last couple of years, photographs have surfaced of Jack Pierce doing the monster makeup on Karloff for that film. Apparently, it was part of the nightmare scene or something where Kay sees him. And so apparently Karloff wasn't opposed to, you know, spoofing or using the monster for laughs. So I'm not sure what really happened with not doing Meet Frankenstein. Maybe they didn't meet his number. That's very likely. I think it's a little different from being a little cameo in one movie to being in this movie so much as the monster is and in that makeup for so long.

I mean, might have been a... Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that would have been very burdensome for him at that point. And just a year later, of course, he co-starred in Abin Costello, Meet the Killer, comma, and so he was not opposed to working with them. Right. That's where Eddie Parker comes in, Gilbert. Eddie Parker doubled for

Karloff in Meet the Killer when he turned, not Meet the kill. I'm sorry. In, um, Jekyll and Hyde. Yeah. So a question for Leonard from Ed Marcus. Uh, Hey Leonard, Shemp shows up in a few films to your knowledge. Did they work together in burlesque previously? Was there a preexisting relationship?

I don't think Shemp worked in burlesque at all. No, no, they, um, I think Shemp was a universal contract player, I believe, Leonard, right? At that point. I mean, he'd been with W.C. Fields in the bank deck.

So he was on the lot. So I think they put him in Buck Privates originally, and then he kept reappearing. I think that Bud, you know, Bud really liked Shemp. He thought he was really very, very funny. I think. And they hired on the independent film, Africa Screams. They hired him. Right. Yeah. Come in for a couple of he was really very, very funny. And they hired, on the independent film, Africa Screams, they hired him. Right, yeah.

Come in for a couple days, and he's very funny. Shemp's always funny. I mean, maybe sacrilege, but he's my favorite stooge, so. Not sacrilege here, sir. Again, Drew, I hope you're listening. Darren Boats has a question for you, Bob, that I'm sure you're tired of being asked. Can you please ask Bob about the day the clown cried?

What does he know? Yeah, well, I could tell you that a lot of what's been said and written about the film is not accurate. Uh, when I worked for Jerry, uh, he didn't really have much on it. The only thing I came across in his film archive were a couple of short rolls of negative little thousand foot rolls, about seven, eight minutes. He had several full reels of 16 millimeter Kodachrome footage taken on the set, but he didn't have much in the way of master elements for the film. And, you know, I never really discussed it much with him. It was a kind of a sensitive subject and I didn't feel comfortable bringing it up. But I don't believe there ever was a finished version of the film.

I know certainly that there was no cut negative or assembled negative. There may have been a work print and some assembled sections. And, you know, Jerry always had very high hopes for picking up the ball and finishing that project up until that whole Spy Magazine, Harry Shearer story hit and all the negative press. And that just let the air out of the balloon. He decided after that point he had to walk away from it. And then in later interviews was saying he was embarrassed of the work and it should never be seen. I'm not sure how much of that he believed. I think he really had a passion for the film.

He put a lot of his own money into it. But there's no complete finished version to be seen. There's just little sections, a little assembled work print sections. So there you have it, folks, the official answer on the day the clown cried. Here's a wild card question that I think Ron can take a whack at because I find weird shit when I'm researching. Was Bud Abbott kidnapped as a teen and taken to Norway? I think that's a publicity story, but he actually did sign up. No, but he did sign on to a steamer to be a cabin boy on a steamer. And then they basically threw him in the hole and made him shovel coal.

So he got really, you know, kind of Shanghai, but not really, because he had volunteered to go on it. This is according to his sister. That was a popular story that they kidnapped him and just threw him on this boat. Gilbert, Gilbert, how do you define popular? That the four of us. find popular. Since we mentioned Sid Field's contributions as a writer to the series, I'd like to mention John Grant as well. John Grant was the, well, Ron can probably address in greater detail, but John Grant was the burlesque veteran that they hired, put on, you know, on staff. And he credited on almost every one of those movies they made because he remembered all of the burlesque routines verbatim and and found sometimes ingenious ways and sometimes not so ingenious

ways. They just sort of did it of integrating those routines into their movies and TV shows. Yeah, the process was they would write a screenplay that was basically a straight story, and then they'd hand it to John Grant. And then he would say, OK, you know what? This will work. This routine will work here. We'll put the lemon table here. We'll put the dice game

here or whatever it would be. And then they would just have to find a one sentence introduction to get it into the movie. And if he didn't... Max Kars. Big Benny's. Big Benny's. He's kind of an unsung hero too

because the films he didn't work on that you could tell something's lacking yeah he was also not only was he you know inserting these things you know into the script but he was on the set while they were shooting and he would come up with uh you know avin castella came up with ad libs too but he also would come up with hey why don't you try something like this or something like that? So he was constantly coming up with bits and improving the scenes and everything. Now, Costello apparently did a lot of blocking, a lot of scene blocking. He was very good at that, but also John Grant helped contribute to that.

Then I guess what maybe you want to get into is the whole McCarthy thing. whole McCarthy thing, when he became very, very, very patriotic, and he became a, you know, somebody who supported McCarthy, you know, and the communist witch hunts. And, you know, there was, Lise and Ronaldo were blacklisted, so Costello saw that people around him who were working on his movies were, you know, accused of being communists, or had been in the Communist Party. Anyway, so Costello wanted anybody who worked for him to sign a loyalty oath that you weren't a member of the communist party. And John Grant refused to sign it. He says, you know, you know me long enough. I'm not signing anything. So Costello basically fired him and he was gone for lost in Alaska.

And it shows you're right. And it shows. And there's a couple others that he was gone for, but then they brought him back into the fold and he kept writing stuff. He worked, I think he worked on just about every Colgate comedy hour. Also, he didn't work on the radio after the Kate Smith show, but he, and he didn't work on the television series because he had Sid Fields and Clyde Bruckman and some other people, but he worked on some of the live shows and the movies. Well, I'm going to ask you guys, as we wind down, I'm going to ask you guys favorite films and favorite bits, favorite moments. But first, I'm going to ask Bob. Bob, why do you have a gold record?

Oh, well, in the early 90s, I was doing some producing for Capitol Records, and my brother and I were working on a Dean Martin release, the Capitol Collector Series. And the idea of this release is it was going to take, for the first time, and put all of his charted songs on one compilation. Well, there was only one problem, and that is that Dean had 19 charted records and we were supposed to put 20 tracks onto this thing so we looked at his entire recorded output for capital and out of these hundreds of songs uh there was one song that i i thought really needs to be on this set because it was a great track and it was really forgotten about and And the song is Ain't That a Kick in the Head. It was recorded in 1960. It was for the film Ocean's Eleven. But Capitol had issued a single

and it bombed. It didn't get any, you know, any airplay at all. And except for one budget reissue on, I think, Pickwick Records in the late 60s, the song was totally forgotten and very, very obscure. Wick Records in the late 60s, the song was totally forgotten and very, very obscure. So we ended the CD with that track. And a year later, Scorsese used it in Goodfellas. And now that song is iconic. I mean, it's considered one of Dean's classic tracks. And I wish we got royalties on all the times it's been used. But it was very cool. It was very cool to kind of resurrect that and give it new life. How did it work again, Bob?

Did they release EO11 as a single? Sammy's version? EO11. Yeah. How did you like Dean, Bob? How did you like working with him? How did you like spending time with him? Dean was wonderful. I first met him in 1981 on a show called Portrait of a Legend.

James Darin hosted it was and Dean was spotlighted and I got to go to the house and spent an afternoon. I was scared to death. I was 20 years old and I'm in Dean Martin's living room, you know, which doesn't happen every day. And they had set it up with the crew that at the end of the shoot, I was going to have a little private time on camera with Dean to give him this cassette of this 1944 radio show he did. And I remember walking over to the couch and I just froze. I stood there looking at him and he looked at me and just very casually says, come here, sit down, Pally. And he just put me at ease. And what a wonderful, sweet guy. And years later, when I was doing the work at Capitol, I got to produce about three or four

reissues of his work. And I saw him a number of times then, and it was a little sad because it was after his son had died. And Dean really kind of gave up and he was not in good shape, but an amazing guy, very down to earth, made you feel very, very comfortable. And I couldn't believe my good fortune. I was very, very lucky. This may sound ridiculous as revered as he was and as popular as he was, but I still say he's underrated. Yeah. Certainly as a comic.

Yeah, I think he's, you know, he's had a chance in the last decade or two to kind of, you know, with this King of Cool brand that they've tagged him with and, you know, he's gotten a bit of a renaissance. The roasts the being sold for years uh so i i think you know i think he's had more success in the last

decade or two than he did really for the last few decades of his own career getting back to something that we were talking about before um They like to say, Jerry Lewis has said, that he didn't talk to Dean Martin until after his son died. But you say they would get together. Well, what happened when Dean's son died, Jerry went to the service, but he stayed in the background.

He didn't make his presence known. And when Dean found out about that, he was really touched and called him. And they spoke for a good hour on the phone. So what that did was it kind of brought them back together as friends again. And they maintained that friendship until Dean passed. They spoke every few weeks. Even when Jerry was touring around the country with damn Yankees, he always would check in.

And Dean would call him preacher because Jerry was always writing him to, you know, take care of yourself and eat well and, you know, go to the doctor when you've got problems. But at that point, I think Dean had just sort of given up. And it was a sad end to an incredible life. Quickly, going around to each person here as we run short of time. And, of course, we could do this for six hours. Leonard, I'm going to start with you.

And I know it's hard. One favorite film, one underrated film of A&C and a favorite bit or routine that doesn't have to be from either film. Oh, gosh. I should have been prepared for this kind of a question. That's OK. You'll have to wing it. Clearly, I am not. Clearly, I am not. I think Buck Privates Come Home is underrated. Let's start with that. That was one of the first ones I saw as a kid, and I hadn't yet seen Buck Privates. But I like Buck Privates Come Home quite a lot, and still do. So that's the underrated one. Favorite? Well, I guess it's Abbott and Costello meet Frankenstein. It may seem obvious a choice, but there it is. And Bit,

who's on first? I mean, that's the one. It's iconic. Beyond. I also, we haven't mentioned that wonderful find that came out on Blu-ray during the past year of the Colgate show where Lou was sick. Bud had to go on solo for the first time. And how long had it been since he'd worked solo without his partner, Lou Costello? And Dean and Jerry agreed to come on and fill the rest of the show. And the whole show is fantastic. I saw that on your website. Yeah, that's so funny. I've always heard that story, and I wondered if it were true. So was Jerry Lewis and Lou Costello? Well, no. Yeah, Bud was hosting the show because Lou was ill,

and Martin and Lewis came on as an extra added attraction for about the last 15 minutes. And Bud has a little on screen time with both Dean and Jerry. But the one thing that was written and I think this goes back again to that wonderful Bob Thomas book. And he talked about he talked about a benefit where they changed partners and, you know, Jerry and Bud did Who's on First together. That's it. I asked Jerry about that. He said it never happened. Oh.

There you go, Gil. I had always heard that story. I wanted it to be true. Bob, quickly, favorite underrated picture and favorite routine slash bit. All right. Favorite, I'm going to go with whodunit. It's I find that is constantly a joy to watch. And it holds up. There's not a dull moment in it. And you can't go wrong with William Bendix. And oh, who's the lady that's Ron? Help me. Mary Wicks.

Mary Wicks. Thank you. Yeah. Porter. Thank you. Good cast. I would say who done it. Favorite routine.

I'm going to pick one out of left field here. And that's the loafing routine from the TV show. It's absolutely brilliant. And that's the only time they did that bit. So so that's a favorite. Most underrated, I think, in society is is a really good film. I think it's the first one I saw. And you always have affection for the first one you saw. The film. I mean, absolutely. It's got great routines.

You know, the whole Susquehanna Hat Company bit, the whole bit with Thurston Howell about Thurston Howell. Right. Thurston Hall. And, you know, the plumbing bit. Of course, I had the Castle Films version called Nights of the Bath. So, you know, it's good to see it in its complete form. But, yeah, I think that society is another good choice is Ron. Same question. Well, you know, we've already mentioned Frankenenstein but i'd say hold that ghost is probably my favorite and underrated would be abedin costello go to mars believe it or not and i'm good i'm good company because martin scorsese also agrees about that it's a guilty pleasure of his so a favorite routine i mean i have like so many um i love the pack and unpack

bit uh bud that's really like a forte for bud and lou has to keep it funny by pantomime which is really great they did that series too yeah and i love mustard mustard's great also so same question uh pretty also pretty obvious ones um abedin costello meet frank Frankenstein's my favorite. And well, and of course, who's on first is the greatest bit. But I also enjoy. Go ahead. Eat a sandwich. Oh, I love that.

Order something. Order something small. Is that the same bit the twin waitresses are in? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. This is this man's place of business. I'm going to ask another question.

Who knows if it'll even wind up in the show, but I got to know that Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra, I heard, beat up the chairman of Hunt's Foods. This is a tribute show. I don't know if anyone has any insight there on that. The chairman of Hunt's Foods. Ron? No idea. Okay, Bob's got a puzzled look on his face. No, that's news to me. I know that they locked the owner of Star Kiss Tuna in a trunk of a car, but I'd never heard anything about the Huntsman.

Gilbert, that's a less popular story. I'm going to go withhold that ghost, hit the ice for underrated or in society. I don't even know if it's considered underrated. I like coming around the mountain, too. I might be in a minority there. Wow. You're on your own on that one. That's one I don't hear very often.

Are you a big Dorothy Shea fan? I like moments in it. And favorite routine, I'm going with the twin waitresses. Great. Ah. Great. Ah. Yeah. You know, one real strong asset to come around the mountain, I think that's the only time you hear Bud's actual singing voice. There you go.

There you go. The only time. You know, you have fondness for them because of the way you discovered them as a child. Right. Yeah. You know? And last question for you guys before Gilbert brings up another scandal. And this this this may be too obvious a question, but I'll start with with Ron.

Why are they timeless? Why do they endure? Bud and Lou? They're just funny. I mean, they're funny guys, naturally funny men. Bud and Lou? They're just funny. I mean, they're funny guys, naturally funny men, and they're doing material that was old when they started doing it, and they knew how to do it. They knew how to wring laughs out of it,

and you're also laughing at their chemistry, I think. That's the whole thing about a comedy team is the chemistry. Look at Laurel and Hardy. Look at the Stooges. And an affection that you sense between them, too? Oh, yeah, I think so. I think there is. Even though Bud's character is not very sympathetic, without him, Lou is not a sympathetic character.

But then I think beyond that, you feel that Bud is looking out for Lou because they do pull each other out of scrapes. Leonard, same question. Why are they still so popular? Same answer. Funny. Funny. Funny is funny. And those routines are there. There were time tested.

You know, they they they held up for audience after audience in person, on the radio, on television, in the movies. and they were foolproof, as foolproof as anything in comedy can be. Great answer. Bob? Well, I would have to say that I think they're films that you can enjoy on different levels. You can enjoy them as a child. As you get a little bit older, you could appreciate the timing and the wordplay a bit. And, you know, it's also something you can share with your kids. So, you know, you grew up with them. You show them to your children. They grow up with them. And it goes on and on.

And that's one of the great things about the accessibility now. We're talking about back in the 1960s and 70s when you had to wait for these you know tv showings once a week well now with the dvds and blu-rays and all you can watch them anytime you want and and you know that that will help the legacy to continue as well good good answer when my daughter was young she loved the mutter and fodder routine oh yeah the yeah. The mutter eats the fodder. Still good. Let's get to the plugs. Ron, the fan club site and the fan club itself, which you started way back in 1986. 1986 to mark the 50th anniversary of their teaming. It's Abbott and Costello fan club dot com. And we have a lot of stuff up there information we also you know point to bob's work

on the restorations so there's a lot of news still happening in the abbott and costello world and we have other things going on there and uh the two books i did for magic image slash bear manor the one's about uh buck privates it has the shooting script so you can actually see where they improvise things and a production history, and one for Hold That Ghost, which the fans know that that movie was basically, half of it was reshot later on when they added the Andrews sisters. So it has both screenplays in there. It has the original screenplay, and it has the addendum script as well. Leonard, tell us about the new Leonard Maltin game. It was not my idea

or my creation, but I'm very flattered that the folks at Alamo Drafthouse, Alamo Drafthouse movie chain and Mondo, Mondo Games, put together a board game based on my book, based on the reviews in my classic movie guide. And it's not a trivia game. It's a game where you have to try to imitate the style of my reviews by picking, you play it with like three or four players, ideally. Great to do online now during the pandemic, because you can do it with Zoom. And you pick a card. The card has the title of a movie and the review. And no one has heard of half these movies. No one has heard of three quarters of these movies.

So you pick one and everyone has to be honest and say, no, I don't know what that movie is. And then you write a phony review. And the one who writes the review that sounds most like it's real wins. And where can people get the game? It's online, wherever games are sold. Good answer. Terrific. Or you can go to Mondo Games. Mondogames.com. And of course, your wonderful podcast continues with your daughter, Jesse. I love the Matthew Modine episode. You guys, we had fun. It was in a monkey movie with Gilbert and one of my favorite reviews.

It was called Funky Monkey and Matthew Modine was in it. And one critic's review was one line that said, Matthew Modine once starred in a Stanley Kubrick film. Bob, the restorations. What's happening with Jack and the Beanstalk? Well, I think by the time this airs, the campaign will be over. But we just had a very successful Kickstarter campaign to restore it. It will be released next summer for the 70th anniversary of the film's production.

And that's going to be available from our good friends at ClassicFlix.com. And then Flix is F-L-I-X.com. They have also, available now, is our Restoration of Africa Screams, also done for a Kickstarter campaign and restored from the original 35-millimeter nitrate elements. Looks amazing. There's hours of extra material on the disc, including the commentary track from Ron Palumbo. Who? Everyone. So yeah.

That's right. So Africa Screams is available through Classic Flicks as well. And we also restore vintage 3D films. And we've done a couple dozen of them. And our most recent release is called 3D Rarities Volume 2. And that's available from flickerali.com. And I'm very proud on that release to have restored Cesar Romero's only 3D movie. Uh-oh, Gilbert. Only one? It's a 1953 production in Mexico called El Corazon Baila Espada.

Oh, I have the Viewmaster reel. There you go. Katie Jurado is in it. And I can tell you, Gilbert, no orange wedges were harmed during the making of that film. He's on to you, Gilbert. I thought when you put the glasses on, the orange wedges flew out of the park. What is the name of this picture again, Bob? El Corazon Huayla Espada. I love this. I love how Cesar Romero is the last thing mentioned in this episode. Bob, I love what you do. You're a major contributor to the culture. Well, thank you,

Frank. And thank you, Gilbert. It's such a joy being on the show. Had a great time. Thank you, guys. I want to thank Leonard, too, for introducing me to these two wonderful gentlemen. And I want to thank Jesse for her tech help and for and for making this possible. And my fellow Abbott and Costello fanatics, this was a joy. Oh, our pleasure. Thank you so much for having us. You guys are great. So keep keep it up. Thank you. Eighty years since Night of the Tropics, huh? And I guess we don't have time to talk about the fact that Abbott and Costello were serial killers. They both went to the electric chair.

Is that Watts or Volts? It's a popular story. is that watch or false story he's he knows a callback when he sees one letter i know right all right gil you want to take us out okay this has been gilbert godfrey's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host frank santo host Frank Santopadre, and we've been talking to Bob Fermanek and Ron Palumbo and, of course, Leonard Maltin about the great Abbott and Costello, among other things. And for those of you who remember the Haunted House episode of Abbott and Costello, Ron has on his wall the Bobby Barber, the spooky Bobby Barber. Bob has it.

That's hanging. Abbott picks it up and says Barber, the spooky Bobby Barber. Bob has it. That's hanging. Abbott picks it up and says, oh, you've got to go. You've got to go. And it's swinging on a branch, as I recall, in the wind. Terrific. Thank you, gentlemen. This was really a treat. Thank you.

For us, too. Thanks. Thank you. Bye-bye. Thank you. A lot of fun. What are you doing? I love baseball.

Well, we all love baseball. When we get to St. Louis, will you tell me the guys' names on the team so I go to see them in that St. Louis ballpark? I'll be able to know those fellas. Well, now, is it all right, folks? All right. Excuse me. I want to fire out the fellas' names. As long as it's okay with the audience. I'm crazy about baseball. Will you stand still? Pick up your hat. Go pick up your hat.

Now, look. Then you'll go and peddle your popcorn and don't interrupt the act anymore? Yes, sir. All right. But you know, strange may seem, they give ballplayers nowadays very peculiar names. Funny names? Nicknames. Pet names.

Not as funny as my name, Sebastian Dinwiddie. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Funnier than that? Oh, absolutely. Yes. Now, on the St. Louis team, we have who's on first, what's on second, I don't know's on third. That's what I want to find out. I want you to tell me the names of the fellas on the St. Louis team. I'm telling you.

Who's on first, what's on second, I don't know who's on third. You know the fellas names? Yes. Well then who's playing first? Yes. I mean the fellas name on first base. Who? The fella playing first base for St. Louis. Who? The guy on first base. Who is on first? Well what are you asking me for? I'm not asking you, I'm telling you who is on first. I'm asking you who's on first. That's the man's name. That's who's name? Yes. Well go ahead and tell me. Who? The guy on first. Who? The first baseman. That's whose name? Yes. Well go ahead and tell me. Who? The guy on first.

Who? The first baseman. Who is on first? Have you got a first baseman on first? Certainly. Then who's playing first? Absolutely. When you pay off the first baseman every month, who gets the money?

Every dollar of it. Why not? The man's entitled to it. Who is? Yes. So who gets it? Why shouldn't he? Sometimes his wife comes down and collects it.

Whose wife? Yes. After all, down and collects it. Whose wife? Yes. After all, the man earns it. Who does? Absolutely. Well, all I'm trying to find out is what's the guy's name on first base? No, no, no. What is on second base? I'm not asking you who's on second.

Who's on first? That's what I'm trying to find out. Well, don't change the players. I'm not changing nobody. Take it easy. What's the guy's name on first base? What's the guy's name on second base? I'm not asking you who's on second. Who's on first? I don't know. He's on easy. What's the guy's name on first base? What's the guy's name on second base? I'm not asking you who's on second.

Who's on first? I don't know. He's on third. We're not talking about him. How did I get on third base? You mentioned his name. If I mention a third baseman's name, who did I say is playing third? No, who's playing first?

Stay off of first, will you? Well, what do you want me to do? Now, what's the guy's name on third base? What's on second? I'm not asking you who's on second. Who's on first? I don't know. He's on third. There I go, back on third again? What's on second? I'm not asking you who's on second. Who's on first? I don't know.

He's on third. There I go, back on third again. Well, I can't change their names. Will you please stay on third base, Mr. Broadhurst? Now what is it you want to know? What is the fella's name on third base? What is the fella's name on second base? I'm not asking you who's on second.

Who's on first? I don't know. Third base. Woo!