Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Brian Levant

Episode Date: July 26, 2021

Writer, producer, director, toy collector and pop culture historian Brian Levant ("The Flintstones," "Beethoven," "Jingle All the Way") joins Gilbert and Frank for a fun-filled conversation about staging pie fights, mail-order alligators, failed "Munsters" reboots, the comic genius of Harvey Korman and Jonathan Winters and the making of his upcoming memoir/coffee table book, "My Life and Toys." Also, Jack Warden forgets his lines, Chuck Jones finds the fountain of youth, Garry Marshall's memorial service brings down the house and Brian directs Gilbert in "Problem Child 2." PLUS: Buffalo Bob Smith! The legend of "Poochinski"! The wonderful world of Hanna-Barbera! Fonzie jumps the shark! The Lone Ranger rides again! And Brian remembers colleagues Phil Hartman and Charles Grodin! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre. Our guest this week is a screenwriter, television writer, a producer, a recent author, and the director of dozens of popular feature films and television programs. television programs. He's served as a writer and producer for hit TV shows such as Happy Days, The Jeffersons, The Jack Warden Stara, The Bad News Bears, Mork & Mindy, and the new Leave It to Beaver. He's also directed feature films that have grossed well over a billion dollars at the box office, including Beethoven, Snow Dogs, The Spy Next Door, Jingle All The Way, Leave it to Beaver, Are We There Yet?, and the 1994 blockbuster The Flintstones, as well as its sequels The Flintstones in Viva Rock

Vegas. But even though he's worked with and collaborated with icons like Steven Spielberg, Ron Howard, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jonathan Winters, Gary Marshall, Robin Williams, and Elizabeth Taylor, and met everyone from Captain Kangaroo to Chuck Jones to Groucho Marx. He still insists his greatest thrill in the business was directing me, Gilbert Gottfried, in the modern-day classic Problem Child 2. But wait, there's more. He's also a showbiz

and pop culture historian and one of the world's most passionate and knowledgeable collector of toys, games, and commercial products and other collectibles and memorabilia, with a personal collection numbering in the thousands. And he's even written a new book about it. It's part coffee table book, part memoir called My Life and Toys. Frank and I have been going through the book, and believe me, it's an eyeful. Please welcome to the show the director who taught me the proper way to take it in the face.

Wait a minute. Go back to that. Oh, sorry. Take a pizza in the face. To get the job in Problem Child 2, he taught me how to take it in the face. And I've been doing it ever since then to get work. Oh, God. And the man who once spent an afternoon with the Lone Ranger himself, the funny and talented Brian Levant.

Well, hello. Thank you. That's quite an introduction. I feel like it's time to sign off. Yes, it doubles as an obituary. Welcome, Brian. You're finally here. Thank you. No, you know, for years, my friend Matt Bierman at Warner Brothers was telling me, you got to listen to the show.

It's right up your alley. You'd love it. You'd love it. You know Gilbert. I said, oh, I just don't listen to podcasts. And finally, I did. And I love the show. And you've had so many people that I know have worked with, idolized, want to know more about.

So I'm very grateful to be on it. And I believe we worked together before. Yes, yes. Problem child, too. I actually watched the film yesterday in preparation for today. And although he's only in two scenes, he dominates. And, you know, I've heard you discuss how the hell Mr. Peabody, who in Problem Child 1 worked for the orphanage, could be the principal of the Cayley Elementary School in Orlando or Mortville, as we said, in Problem Child 2.

And it was just, let's just do it. In the same movie, Amy Yazbeck is playing a completely different part, so why not? That's odd. Well, I remember our two friends who wrote the picture. Scott and Larry. Scott and Larry.

Kieroszewski and Alexander, two of the most unique talents in the history of the industry. Scott's birthday today, by the way. Happy birthday, Scott. Happy birthday, Scott. Well, Scott and Larry told me when they first started writing Problem Child 2, they wanted to have the entire cast back all in different parts. Like they were going to have me as some crazed ice cream delivery guy, an ice cream truck driver. The principle worked well. The principle worked very well and and the most fun was the food fight shot in the bubble room in orlando and where you describe yes you you took a pizza in the face that

i threw i always throw my own pies uh uh so i don't get mad at people who miss uh and and i and i've gotten pretty good and you took a pretty good one. And what you referred to is, I reminded you of the Three Stooges, where they would take a beat and wipe their eyes with their first two fingers and snap it down and then respond. And it really is kind of a Laurel and Hardy kind of thing. Problem Child 2 was my first feature directing job, my first feature job of any kind. It's very interesting how that all came about. I was doing a show that I hated and would soon be fired from the only time in my life I've ever been fired. And the night my father died,

we were shooting a show. He was in vegas and this happened very suddenly and and my assistant's husband worked in business affairs at universally so i know this is a bad time but but they're looking for a tv director to to do the problem child sequel the first one was a mess i i know how successful it was but it was a messy shoot with a lot of reshoots and things. And they already had a date before they had a script to release it at the beginning of June. Maybe even Memorial Day weekend. And so they had to back into that date and they wanted to make sure they'd have the film. And so I met with them and

it was very fortuitous. John Ritter, I had done that year, two pilots for John's company, one of which was shot, which starred Amy Yazbeck, then his co-star Paramore and later wife and widow, and Michael Oliver, who you, it's acknowledged there's a lot of trouble with the family uh on the first i didn't have those problems um i had given his older brother his sag card in the in the last couple episodes of happy days oh in the 11th season uh michael's older brother was cast as the kid that fonzie adopted and had the gone on, he would have been a regular. And I knew them. I got along with them.

Jack Warden, as you mentioned, was the star of the Bad News Bears series that we did for two 13-episode bursts on CBS, one of the great experiences of my life. And they wanted to shoot it in Orlando, where two years earlier, I'd opened, literally opened their studio, established protocols for the last season of Beaver when it was on TBS. And so down there, and the only one I inherited really was you. And I didn't know what to expect. And you just, we said, we hit the slate and you just go.

And then, okay, let's say,'s all right so that one was pretty good now what about going from that one to this one and and i'm watching it and there's some amazing improvs in there by you and in your two scenes especially my favorite is uh sitting next to the busty girl uh in in the tunnel of love of Love boat in the bubble room. I haven't forgotten. And you say, when we get home, I'll put on the Zorro suit, which I have no idea what that means, but I just love it. I figured that wasn't scripted. We were talking off mic about the food fight,

and I was on the phone with Gilbert today, Brian, trying to understand what that gelatinous substance was. Methyl cellulose. It wasn't something naturally found in pizza. Well, like I said, he taught me to take it in the face. Exactly. That explains that gelatinous

sticky substance. Gilbert, it's a family show. Okay. Methyl cellulose certainly resembles the product that you're used to taking a facial with. But it's what they use slime for. And the trouble was, I said, can't you put some food coloring in it and make it look like cheese? And they tried, but it all just comes out sticky and wet. But no one seemed to mind.

And, you know, we used 500 gallons of it in the vomit scene, which luckily for you, you were not involved in. Right, at the amusement park. Which 500 of methylcellulose, I use vegetable soup and Froot Loops for color and texture. And we make pretty good looking vomit. The one part of the fight scene that, the pie fight scene, I minded was that it was on rubber.

Pie crust was rubber. And it was like getting hit in the face with a tire each time. I apologize. I'm the one who always throws the pies, whether they be rubber or cream pies, because I'd get too mad at people if they missed. And now, by the time I did Problem Child 2, I had a lot of experience and knew just how far you could extend your arm without getting your fingers in the camera. Is it hard to shoot a food fight scene?

I guess it's a pie fight scene because it's pizza. What we did is we just kind of built it shot by shot almost in order so that so that we we didn't do a master where everybody went crazy where we had 60 people throwing meatballs and spaghetti and pies and and nap silver it was ugly uh but you know we waited until the end and then we had three, two, one, everybody go! Throwing rolls and French bread. It was a terrific few seconds of film. But what I love about Problem Child 2

is it's nothing but big set pieces, and that was the excuse to do the movie, really, is to do the kind of large-scale comic destruction that nobody else was doing. Well, tell us about... And to wrap it. Go ahead, Gil. And you were saying,

and I, because I grew up on Three Stooges movies, the way to receive the pie in the face, the reaction to a pie in the face... Is to milk it, is to milk it, as Oliver Hardy did, as Moe Howard did. And you take your two fingers on each hand and you slowly wipe them and flick it off and take a moment to all right you did that now what am i gonna do yes it really you know it's a two tars so the 1927 laurel and hardy uh short where you do this to me okay okay, then I'm going to do this to you.

And it just keeps escalating. Yeah, it always got me in those movies, like the guy would pour something down the other guy's shirt or crack an egg over his face. And it was like considered polite that you waited and you had someone take a paintbrush and paint your face with it, and it was gentlemanly. You waited, and then you had your turn to do something to him. I'd like to say that Peabody is provoking that fight.

The family is minding its business, Gilbert, and you stand up in the booth and pick a fight with the family. Right. For no good reason. Oh, and what I remember being with the hot looking girl is that at one point, I think it's the kid throws an olive or a meatball. Meatball. He throws a meatball. And the meatball lands right between her tits. Or surgically inflated. Yeah, and me, you know, going with the scene,

decided, because at first she just reacts, and then I said, you know, it would be funny if I reach down between her breasts and pluck out. And I did that scene about, I think, 50 times. Nice work. No, but daintily, daintily. Your fingers are like you were having English tea. It keeps waving you away the deeper you go.

Tell us about Warden, Brian, because you had worked with him previously, as we said in the intro in the Bad News Bears show. Yeah. And everything we've heard, we had Amy here last year, that the guy would tell stories that he was a raconteur. Oh, indeed. And he experienced everything. Jack were at the end of the day when, you know, the kids were doing their close ups and he got a break and we'd go to his trailer and he'd pour a couple fingers of scotch and tell great stories about New York in the 50s and talk politics. You know, we were in there, I think a couple of other guys and we're talking about politics and something.

Well, what's the difference between a Republican and a Democrat anyways? And Jack goes, about 50 grand a year. He was great. He was wonderful, and the kids frustrated him to no end. Great. But at the last rep party, him and Jack Swain, this crusty old DP who shot the show, they were sitting there at the table and they're literally crying. Oh, the kids, the kids are going to miss the kids.

And it was a great pleasure to be with him again on Problem Child 2 and Problem Child 3, which we wrote him a great scene. You know, Jack was a boxer early in his life. And we wrote him a scene where he's literally sparring with his housekeeper, his Hispanic housekeeper. And he was hysterical doing it. But, you know, we had to rehearse the moves, you know, for the camera and stuff. By the time we actually got to shooting, it was kind of spent. He was 83 at the time.

And he'd gone about six rounds by then. How great is he in the verdict? We were talking about Lumet before, before we turned on the mics. But, you know, sometimes Jack had trouble with his lines. And then I see him in these Woody Allen movies. And, you know, it's a single take and he's got four pages of dialogue. And there he was fine with me. I was like, line.

I took it very seriously. I did. I wanted it to look like a live action cartoon. There's nothing but primary colors. If you've seen Problem Child 2 or 3, we kept the same production designer and the same concept. But the relationship between the kid and Ben was definitely based in love. The kid found love and he didn't want to share this guy with anyone who was a threat. He took care of him. And in doing so, it set up all these huge set pieces,

which was a challenge comedically and creatively. And that's what I love about the film. I'm going to ask another. Gilbert and I were talking about another famous cameo that comes at the climax of the film, and that's Buffalo Bob Smith, one of your childhood heroes. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Howdy doody. The show I previously referenced where I was being fired from was because we we did an episode where the three sisters each pursued a forgotten dream.

And the oldest one was to meet Buffalo Bob. And the network took such umbrage that we were going in the wrong demographic direction that that I was I was relieved of my duties uh because obviously i wasn't steering the show in the right direction and so strangely enough so now a month later i'm starting problem child 2 and i suggest buffalo bob we were shooting in orlando he lived in saint petersburg then most of the year in maine the summers. And they thought it was wonderful and subversive in the film department. So great. So he shows up in his big Eldorado Cadillac with Howdy Doody license plates. And the night before in the hotel, I sent him a bottle of champagne were in the hotel, I left, sent him a bottle of champagne with the card that just read, Howdy Doody Buffalo Bob. And I'll never forget when I heard he'd arrived and was headed for

makeup. I headed for the trailer. I opened the door and, you know, he's facing the mirror and he sees me, the reflection. I know who you are. And he gets out of the chair and he gives me the, I know who you are. And he gets out of the chair and he envelops me in this hug. I couldn't believe it. And, you know, I literally felt like I was five years old. And the couple days I spent with him were joyous and fun. And I got to ask a lot of questions.

One of the few remaining projects on my plate is something that we started 20 years ago over at Amblin, which is the backstage history of Howdy Doody with David Goodman, president of the Writers Guild, and producer David Kirshner. And we're still interested in pursuing that again. But I loved the show. It was a gateway drug to my career. Yeah. And the book. Truly, truly. We should point out to people, too, that this meant so much to you to be hugged by this guy who was a childhood hero. Growing up in Chicago, you grew up on Pinky Lee and Soupy Sales and Captain Kangaroo and Howdy Doody and all of

these people meant so much to you. And we'll plug the book throughout, but if people get the book, they will see the connection. Oh, it's obvious. You know, my work is so reflective of the shows that I watched as a kid and, you know, strangely enough, ended up working on Leave it to Beaver for God knows, like totally from the time we first had a meeting until the movie came out. It's like 15 years that I was deeply involved with them and to do the Flintstones. And those are shows that I was in front of the TV watching their debut episodes. And two years later, to be woven into the fabric of the franchise

was exhilarating and fun. And it just transported me and everyone who worked on those shows felt the same way. They really did. They were very special experiences. you're a very filmmaker who got to live out you know live out childhood fantasies yeah by bringing the things that you loved as a kid to to life to another form of life talk about the flintstones too because

your toy collection plays a role in you getting that gig in the first place yes as you mentioned in the book i so after beethoven which which followed directly on the heels of problem child 2 i hadn't even finished the film but i was not the original director of beethoven i should add uh they had a director who i won't name but who was he never made a shot of the dog in in a week and a half and i finally noticed it and the reason was he had a psychology he'd been mauled by a dog like two years before he had 350 stitches in his arm and he just they said okay and then it became who can we get really cheap to replace and there was a couple very nice scenes with the dog and problem child too so they brought me in and i met with ivan i met with groden and you know i read the script on Wednesday, and Monday I was shooting.

But after that, there was what do you do next, and who knows, and I heard that they were looking for someone to do a rewrite on the Flintstones. And I called my agent and said, please throw my hat in the ring there. That would be fantastic. And they said, sorry, they've already got a writer, but would you be interested in taking a meeting as a director? And for the next two weeks,

nuts just thinking about it, watching it, and thinking about how you would translate 2D to 3D and how real to make it and how cartoony and where that line was. And I met with Stephen and Kathy Kennedy during their lunch break from shooting Jurassic Park on the back lot. And for the first 10 minutes of my meeting, I was talking like this. And they seemed to be used to people talking to them like that. They really did. And finally, I said, pull yourself together. And I got around to showing them a Polaroid.

That's how long ago this was. Of my then like 25, 30 piece Flintstone collection. And then all of a sudden, Stephen's eyes lit up. And that kind of enabled me to speak about what I would do and how I would approach it and how I've approached other similar things like Beaver and being, you know, so very specific about capturing what people loved about these franchises. And Frank and I were talking that Spielberg wanted, actually wanted Jurassic Park-style dinosaurs. Wanted to go the Stan Winston route. He wanted Stan Winston to do them, knowing that they would be different. I met with the late Stan Winston, who did the Terminator and all the Jurassic Park stuff,

and he's brilliant. I did not detect much whimsy in there. And my kids were watching a lot of Henson material at the time. And I gravitated towards them and they made a terrific presentation financially and creatively. And working with the Henson Creature Shop in London and later with the Creature Shop in L.A. was an amazing experience. It just puts you back in touch with what you had when you were a kid watching puppet shows. Suddenly, you accepted the reality and you were more concerned about how to make an impact with people without the ability to move 100 percent of your body and stuff. So there's a sense of responsibility and a pressure here because you're not only trying to please Spielberg, your employers, but you're – as a kid who grew up on this stuff, you're now kind of a caretaker of this franchise in a way.

And you have to please Bill and Joe. When do they come into the equation when did you meet them they had they had blessed it a long time ago the project started basically on what was the name always was that always right uh when uh walking to lunch one day steven's passing john he was probably going to his trailer or something. John was going to eat. And he looks at him and says, you should play Fred Flintstone. To which John told me years later, he thought to himself, yeah, and how do you like a knuckle sandwich? So Spielberg had John Goodman in his mind from the very beginning. With with that in mind he went and secured the rights i see they had previously joel silver who gilbert always used to call me joel because he thought i

looked like joel silver i should only have his money oh there was a there was a one with jim belushi in development right with jim and rick moranis rick moranis strangely enough and uh and rick was still interested. And, you know, we saw everybody in town for the female roles. Rosie O'Donnell was my wife's idea. And although it's still controversial, I thought she was brilliant and funny and original and brought a lot to it. And Rick was not in favor when he first found out. You know, I mean, he said, she should be playing anyone in this movie. It's Fred.

But once he got on the set with her, he loved her, and they were great together. And Halle Berry, you know, I had no idea who to cast. We saw every woman in town, really. You know, Teresa Russell, I mean, Virginia Madsen. That's interesting.

Yeah. Sharon Stone turned down the chance to play Sharon Stone. She did indeed, to do Intersection. Good choice, Sharon. You know, she would have had another chapter for her autobiography. And you, that John Goodman didn't refuse to be in the sequel. Not refused, not refused. He did not refuse.

After everybody in every airport he ever ventured into only said yabba-dabba-doo to him. Instead of, you know, he went to Stephen and I can just hear him say, please don't make me do any more of these. But we had been prepping. We had been prepping, you know, to do like Back to the Future, to do two and three back to back. And so that threw a wrench in that. And it took a while to regroup. And we still wanted to do something. And we did Viva rock vegas uh which

was fun and imaginative and but just never packed the punch with the audience uh that the first one did but it does have ann margaret and margaret is not in it she sings in it that's what i mean and and it was great to to go to her house and meet her i'm from'm from two towns over from where she grew up. And I met Roger Smith. And Roger Smith was the last member, other than Roscoe Carnes, of the cast of 77 Sunset Strip, who I had never met.

So I finally knocked over those pins. You can check that box. And if you remember, Anne-Margret used to be Anne Mogrock. That's right. That's why we got her. Who else was in Viva Las Vegas and the Flintstones? Exactly. Actually, she had a cell in her house prominently displayed of her on the Flintstones.

And you had dealings with Hanna Barbera. Oh, we didn't get to Hanna. with uh hannah hannah barbara that's oh we didn't get to hannah so bill and joe the two of the most incredibly kind decent people you have ever met in your life so accomplished so confident in their abilities and their place in society uh they just carried that with them and so they blessed the project a long time ago, and they came to visit while we were building. We had four, like, 18,000-square-foot sound stages taken over. We were building, you know, these 6,000 props, costumes, and vehicles, and the sets that would take place.

You'd do the film completely different. It would all be CGI. But then we built everything. It was real. The sets are very impressive. Even today. And I picked them up in Barney's Pencil Mobile, which was the first car that was finished from Amblin,

and drove them across the lot in that to the stages. And I could tell they expected to be disappointed. And they walked in and they saw the houses, the cars, the inside of the houses. They saw them making silverware and the products in the refrigerator. And they just lit up and became animated, if you would. And they were delighted by everything. And I'll never forget, we showed them the Flintstones bathroom, and Bill Hanna says, there's no toilet paper. And I said to our prop man, please, get a roll of birch bark and mount that there.

And we came out into the sunlight after going through all the sets and and joe barbara shook his head and he said never in my life did i ever expect to see anything like this that's great yeah and and i said we were just getting beginning and they were in the film they loved it uh hoit curtain who did all the music for hannah barbara and is one of the true stars in the hannah barbara universe great hoit curtain we shout him out on this show often uh he he he was he was just so great and so enthusiastic and the jensen's theme which which what the last note is a note that doesn't exist, and that's what he wrote. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast after this. What?

Go ahead, Gil. You had dealings with Groucho Marx. I did. I did, and it's not my favorite story well we should we should point out like you guys do yes okay yes it's in the book so i'll tell you all about it uh i loved groucho uh there was a moment in when i was a junior in high school watching uh at the circus in the scene where Chico and Harpo are searching for something in the strong man's little compartment on the train. And they're throwing feathers all over. And all of a sudden, they turn on the fan and Harpo all of a sudden has got a belly and a beard of feathers and he's doing Santa. And it was this moment of incredible imagination that really

locked me so firmly into my career and what I wanted to do. And they remained such a huge influence in my life. And I had the opportunity to see Groucho very, I think it was in the, I think it was maybe 1971 or so. He came and spoke at Northwestern University, a thousand people sitting on the gym floor and he was relaxed and wonderful and funny and hated Nixon, really hated Nixon. He was great about Nixon. That was the best part. That's great. And you'd see him popping up on Dick Cavett in places. And sometimes he could be hysterical and singing Lydia. And so when I moved to L.A. to get free records, I wrote reviews for this rock and roll rag, a real rag, some giveaway thing.

And I'm telling the editor one day some Groucho stories. And he calls me up next week and said, I called his people and you want to come with them? I'm going to interview them. I said, would I? And so this is February 77. Thank you for the correction. No problem. I've had Frank.

Frank's a great proofreader. I appreciate it. He's getting a free one. You're going to have to pay, Gilbert. I've earned my book. Yes, you have. And so we went up Hillcrest Drive there to Groucho's. Wallace Neff, a very influential architect in Los Angeles.

Beautiful kind of 50s postmodern house, all white, white floors. And you walked in and there was a hat rack with all of those outrageous golf hats and berets that he'd taken to wearing instead of the ridiculous toupees that he'd worn previously. And there on the wall was the John Decker painting of the Marx Brothers like as the Dutch masters. He's one of the guys who took John Barrymore out drinking after he died and painted the picture of W.C. Fields as Queen Victoria. It used to be a Chasen's. And we waited and waited. And finally, Aaron Fleming, his gatekeeper, who I didn't even recognize because the only time I'd ever seen her previously was in woody allen's everything you wanted to know about sex right and she was you know attractive had long hair and she had very short hair and it was very gaunt i've read in other places she was doing a lot of drugs then

that might make sense um and we were ushered in to meet the great man and it was the the time in between seeing him at Northwestern and seeing him in his own living room had not been kind to him. He'd had a lot of medical issues and the issues were winning, quite frankly, very slow and roomy-eyed. And, you know, we tried to get it going and he really wasn't interested and he did get off one spectacularly good joke, though. My editor was asking him about, you know, getting started on Brought in the Coconuts

and what a breakthrough that was for them. And, you know, he wasn't going very far. And I knew the story about his mother having broken her leg being carried into the theater for the opening and so i say so was your mother there and he looks like no she was in jail and and and just in that moment you saw you saw the speed you saw oh yeah yeah and then he found out we weren't from rolling stone as she had told him to be the uh the day's entertainment and give his his uh still considerable ego a sponge bath i think we could say uh and uh we left then i went home and put my head under the covers literally she so she lied to

him and said these guys these kids are from rolling stone to maybe to get him out of bed or just right no you know that was her job that was her job sure to make sure that he answered the Did she lie to him and said, these kids are from Rolling Stone, maybe to get him out of bed or just make him feel— No, that was her job. That was her job. Right, sure. To make sure that he answered the bell every day and that he felt needed and wanted and part of the conversation. Wow. And very shortly afterwards, he went into the hospital, from which he was in for months and really never emerged.

I didn't realize until I was doing research for this, Brian, that they never told him about Gummo's death. No. When he was in rapid decline. They didn't want to. No, you know, it was a sad end for somebody. The headlines of his final days, he didn't, you know, he deserved much better headlines than that. I still think it's an honor to have been thrown out of Groucho Marx's house. You know, you're like Trentino in Duck Soup.

Years later, years later, it finally dawned on me that you don't get a nickname like Groucho in 1913 for nothing. Right. You know, if he'd only said leave and never darkened my bath towels again, it would have been perfection. Just quickly, one more thing about Hanna-Barbera before we jump off, because Gilbert and I were talking. They told you, or it was your understanding, that the Flintstones was never a honeymooners knockoff that they were trying to pay tribute to laurel and hardy that's what they insist they i think the evidence says otherwise but uh no they were all about silent comedy if you think about sure think about uh their work it is primarily trying to get your next meal to survive, whether it's Yogi or Pixie and Dixie.

Right. And all these characters and Tom and Jerry. And that really goes back to modern times and the little tramp where every scene is built around trying to feed. They were students of silent film. And in the Flintstones, Harvey Korman shows up, but not as Kazoo or whatever that is. The Great Kazoo.

In the first film, he was the voice of Fred's Dictabird when he became an executive. Yep. And that's where I first met Harvey. We booked him for that. There was no other choice to be made because we wanted him very much to be part of it. And he comes into the – he didn't do the production or pre-record. The Henson puppeteer operated the bird's mouth and cadence, which I tried to keep, you know, in the rhythm that I thought would be good.

And then Harvey comes in and, well, we'll be in and out here in two hours, like he used to be doing gazoo, I'm sure. But it took four days to match perfectly to the bird's beak. And it was very frustrating to him at times. But in those days, it was just he and I and eating lunch together. And we got along so well. And I loved him. That's nice.

And I loved his stories. And he appeared in Jingle All the Way for me. That's right. And then the reading for Viva Rock Vegas, Alan Cumming, who played the great Gazoo in that film, and Mick Jagged, a double role, wasn't with us for the reading. So we invited Harvey to come in and read Gazoo, and that was a real treat. And then, I can't remember his name, but I was asked to hire someone to play Wilma's father.

I can't remember his name. He was in Cassavetes' film Mickey and Ma. Mickey and Ma, one of the last films. Seymour Cassell. Seymour Cassell. Seymour Cassell. Seymour Cassell. Seymour Cassell. And Seymour Cassell was not hitting the beats. That's a different kind of actor, right?

A little behind the beat. And so I boldly, because it was supposed to be a favor to a biggie, I asked to replace him with Harvey, and it was great to spend more time with him. That's nice. Yes, well, but then there was a cast and crew screening, and Harvey was there, and a couple days later, I just wanted to say hi and see how he liked it and stuff.

And so Harvey, hey, so what'd you think? And he goes, oh, someone just walked in. I got to go. I'll call you back. And he never did. Oh, and he never called you back. He hit you with the old somebody just walked in. That's right.

That's right. Jonathan Winters, another hero, turns up in the Flintstones. And, you know, I was sacrificed on the altar of Mork and Mindy for two years. I was telling Gilbert. As the showrunner, you know, the fourth and final season where Jonathan was cast as Mork and Mindy, the year that they were engaged, married, honeymooned on Ork. And then Robin laid a six-foot egg from which Jonathan Winters, their infant, was hatched. Remember, on Ork, you age backwards.

Sure. So the elder was like six. And Jonathan was their baby. And it was great fun. And it was very difficult to get him to stay on book, to say the least. But my greatest regret of that whole season was in between scenes and camera changes and wardrobe changes and stuff, he and Robin would entertain the audience.

And this would go on and on and on. And it was some of the most brilliant stuff you've ever seen. And bits evolved with them and were polished over the weeks. So by the end they were they were steaming hot and and i had microphones there record if we just said just keep rolling or give it a separate slate that whole year we would have had the best the largest

selling double comedy album of all time i'm convinced convinced of this. And it's just a shame. And it was great working with Jonathan. I really loved him and admired him. And the thing about working with those guys is you, to write for them, you had to learn to think like them. And for somebody who, you know, I don't come from an improv background or anything, but to learn how to train your mind

to be so much more open to different ideas and different ways of approaching humor. It was instructive and wonderful, and with Robin, just exhilarating sometimes. Did Robin's constant improvs and veering away from the script, did that test the patience of the other actors in uh more convenient longer days uh the the crew loved it because you always uh you know you go into double overtime to film a show the first scene the first scene you know like four or five pages was always an hour and a half then it would speed up some but you know, Robin, one of his gifts was the most amazing memory in the world, which is maybe how he unintentionally lifted so many jokes from people.

But he was never satisfied. If he got a laugh with something on Monday in the reading, he'd say, give me a different one there. Then on Tuesday, he'd get a laugh that wasn't enough. I want a different one there. Then on Tuesday, he'd get a laugh. It wasn't enough. I want a different one there. So all week, you'd be trying to up every joke for him. And then on Friday, he'd let loose with all four or five of them, plus a couple more off the top of his head. And the ability to just seize on these out of nowhere. And at one point, I remember in the fourth season, Bruce Johnson, the line producer, turned to me and said,

that was a line from two years ago that he had killed. You know, it just came out there. Wow. Go on. But John was in the Flintstones. And sadly, I did probably one of his last, very last projects. sadly i i did probably one of his last very last project he was in uh our live action scooby-doo uh uh film for the cartoon network uh curse of the lake monster and the kids had burned down his barn uh reprising a role that he had played in the cartoon and the studio wanted the beginning to

move faster and i tried to save him tried to say i couldn't figure it out and we cut him and i felt terrible about it and finally when we left the dubbing stage i said ah now i know how to save it so it was too late but he had a i i went up to his trailer that night and it was a long night shoot and i walk in hey johnny how you doing how am i doing how am i doing i'm ready for the big dirt nap. That's how I'm doing. I feel like shit. Oh, God. And so this is going to be a great night. But it's like as soon as he stepped onto the set, you know, the performer, you know, shed his skin, this old man's skin.

And finally his son had to drag him off the set like three hours later. And he went on and on and on. I was a little worried because we had a lot to do, and I couldn't really say, okay, let's move on, while he was still cooking. Right, he was in his shining moment. He was, and he loved the attention, and he loved an audience, and that's why he used to stand outside of Paddy's and Toluca Lake every morning and just do business for people picking up the newspaper. Gilbert,

did you interact with him, with Jonathan Winters? On me? Yeah. Did you cross paths with him? I never acted with him. I remember we were once doing the same show, but we didn't act together, but I remember

sitting in the room and Jonathan was holding court. And I, you know, I have a habit of daydreaming. So he would always catch me and go, hey, Gilbert's zoning out again. Ah, okay. I guess we lost Gilbert again. And I remember Jonathan saying, you know, my father used to tell me all the time, don't mess around with women and save your money. And now I have no money and Mr. Pencil doesn't work. No, we miss it we miss it and you worked you were planning on a munsters uh whole new munsters yes now they just announced that uh yeah that rob zombie uh that well-known comic uh uh entrepreneur yeah he's a regular preston sturges yeah is going to do the Munsters. No, I wanted to, after Jingle All the Way, I woke up one morning literally with the idea kind of fleshed out in my head for the Munsters Rise Again, which would have been the pilot, basically, that they had never done for the Munsters, where they get driven out of Transylvania by, you know,

a torch-waving mob, and they're forced to come to America, come to, what was the name of that town? Anyways, in New Jersey, on Mockingbird Lane, in some old decrepit house, which was, I've said, abandoned, because there was a ghost of a Civil War traitor in his valet in there who scared people off, and the Munsters were thrilled, and the people, and the ghost kept trying to get rid of them, and the Munsters assimilated. That was their goal, was to assimilate into America, to have jobs and careers and for Eddie to go to school. And Herman, as it turned out, had a lot of problems as a parent.

Grandpa was dating a black widow. Marilyn and Lily had a beauty salon that was failing until the Goss discovered them. This all came to you in one night? Yeah, you know, a couple times things like that have just kind of jumped in, like fully formed. And so I put on the best dog and pony show of of many that i've done for stacy snyder the new head of production at universe i got the monster mobile they we had to cart it over that's great uh from george barris i had a special effects guy come and makes cobwebs and fog ground fog in my office i looped a highlight reel of the show, and I looped the soundtrack.

I brought in my entire Munsters collection. I picked her up, drove her in the Munsters mobile, and I pitched the whole story to Arnold Schwarzenegger. Oh, but Lily. Oh, but Lily. Vanessa Williams is Lily, right? And Dustin Hoffman

is Grandpa. She didn't get it. Well, you know, if you buy the Frankenstein origin, right, Gilbert, in Transylvania, I guess that Schwarzenegger's accent would make sense. It would. Would work. In all

those Frankenstein movies, it was always like, you know, one actor would have an American accent, the other would have a Cockney accent, the other would be German. Right. Donnie Dunnigan. Yes. Yeah, right. Going, ha, pop.

Yeah. Some from Alabama. You know, it is a shame that the Addams Family got their proper feature treatment and the Munsters never did. Well, maybe they'll get it now, now that no one remembers them. Right. My favorite part is you having Dustin Hoffman in mind for Grandpa. Well, and, you know, at one point I was trying to seduce Steve Stolier, who I know has been on your show. Sure, we know Steve.

To do his book about the aged Groucho. And I also thought Dustin Hoffman would be excellent as the 78-year-old Groucho. Oh, Gilbert's got that part sewn up. Right, Gil? Old Groucho? Gilbert does great old Groucho. Can we have a sample?

He's taking a sip. Yes. Go ahead, Gil. You know, George Geishman wrote this song. Everybody works but father.

He sits around all day. Feet in front of the fireplace. Smoking his pipe of clay. Mother takes in the laundry. And so does sister. And everybody works in our house. Except my old man.

Very good. How can you consider Dustin Hoffman when you have this at your disposal? Hey, it never was. You know, I love that you mentioned the theme song in the book, too. Now, you must know Frank Marshall. Of course, that's how Frank's father, Jack, wrote the Monster Sim song. We just found that out a couple of weeks ago. Oh, too. Now, you must know Frank Marshall. Of course. That's how Frank's father, Jack, wrote the monster season.

We just found that out a couple of weeks ago. We feel so stupid for just realizing it. He also played the harmonica on any harmonica theme song you could ever remember, too. I love some of your casting ideas, too. I love

Hoffman. Brad Garrett, at some point we tried yes we had gonna be considered years after the the the feature uh went away i was telling this tale of woe to the altair brothers who who i did the scooby movies with and they said well let's take it to the division that's doing all those beethoven movies and we did, and they loved it, and we're ready to roll. And then they said, oops, they just gave it to Bryan Singer to do whatever he did. Right, Mockingbird Lane.

13, Mockingbird Lane, which I'll never understand. And I love Jerry. He did a series of mine. But this one, that one was just not from the same orbit as the Munsters. No, not at all. And so we lost it there, and then they came back five years later and said, let's do it. We said, okay, let's get Brad Garrett,

who did an incredible, incredible imitation of Herman Munster. Yes, he does. And I thought, well, you get Henry Winkler to play Grandpa. I love where this is going. And it would have been very funny. Gilbert, here's what I learned, too, in researching Brian, that they used to recycle Leave It to Beaver scripts as Munster stories. Oh, yeah.

Oh, jeez. Like I said, you know, Mosher and Connelly, who inherited the show, and I don't think it ever really meant a lot to them as opposed to some of the other things they did, which were much more personal. Beaver was a very personal show to Mosher and Connolly. And so was Karen, which was part of Bristol Court, which was an anthology series on NBC in the late 50s. So the Munsters was dropped in their lap? Yes. It was Ed Haas and Norm Liebman created the concept.

Alan Burns and Chris Hayward. Who did Barney Miller and Rocky and Bowinkle wrote the pilot. And then they handed it off to Mosier and Connolly, who ran it for its 72-episode run. Yeah. And so they were just taking the old Beaver stories. Yeah, no. Beaver runs away.

Eddie runs away. Beaver's grandfather grows hair on a bowling ball in the lab. So does Eddie's. And now you also hung out with the Lone Ranger. Oh, that's a good story. Yes. I had an interaction with the Lone Ranger. I loved the Lone Ranger growing up.

I far preferred him to Roy Rogers and Dale Evans, who had this weird show that they made for all those years for ABC where they were talking on the phone and had phonographs and were riding horses everywhere. I never – when does this show take place? Whatever was convenient. They had a Jeep. They had a dog. They were trying to hit every demographic. And I never much liked Gene Autry.

I thought he was soft. But I love the Lone Ranger. And you could just tell how laser-focused this guy was. We should point out the Clayton Moore Lone Ranger, not the John Hart. The Clayton Moore Lone Ranger. He did hold out for a better contract, I think, in the third season. And they punished him by by replacing him with john hart yeah and no one noticed the difference for a year unfortunately yeah uh but uh uh my friend

fred fox jr uh and whose father uh you you've mentioned his partner several times on the show seaman jacobs they wrote like 53 episodes of doby gillis and oh god with george burns legendary writing team yeah yeah wonderful stuff so fred was on staff with happy days and we we wrote uh 13 or 14 shows together produced the show together anyways he wrote the lone ranger show and he loved the lone ranger and a birthday was coming up and and clayton moore's autobiography had come out and i called rob, who used to run the Golden Boot Awards. And I said, is there any way you can get Clayton Moore to sign a book for someone? And he goes, yeah, I'm going up there in two weeks. Why don't you come with me? He lives

right near you. Who knew that? And so two weeks passed by and I was so excited, you know, walking up the walkway to his condo in Calabasas. And he opened the door and usually, you know, you say even Arnold, you know, I saw, oh, Arnold shorter than I thought, you know, Fonzie's shorter than I thought, Lone Ranger bigger than I could have imagined, a bit like 6'5", broad shoulders, you know, a little sandpaper on the voice. He was in his 80s, but it still had that resonant tenor. And appropriately enough, he suffered from horseshoe pattern baldness. But, you know, he regarded me kind of like a cattle rustler. You know, I was imposing. And, you know, he signed all the stuff for the silent auction for Rob.

And then I got a copy of the book for myself, too. And I hand it to him, and he takes them, and he, like, literally makes a face like he smelled a bad fart. You know? And he dutifully signs them, you know, Clayton Moore, the Lone Ranger, and dates it. And he hands it back to me like that. And I certainly wasn't planning on it. And I said, very spontaneously, I said, you know, at the end of every episode, they always said, I never got to thank the Lone Ranger. Well, I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank you for all the hours that I spent with you growing up for the morality, for the understanding of racial equality, for promoting honesty and good and right in the law.

And so thank you and thank you very much. And I offered him my hand and he had teared up. And he goes, thanks, Kimo Sabe. Which is more than you could ever ask for. And like two minutes later, we're walking out the door and I got this idiot, shit-eating smile on my face. Because a Lone Ranger called me Kimo Sabe. And we're walking down the walkway and all of a sudden he pops his head out the door and he holds his hand and we go, wait, just one minute, will you? And we stop and we look at each other, we shrug.

And about 30 seconds later, he pops out of the door and damned if he isn't holding between his index finger and his thumb, a silver bullet. his index finger and his thumb a silver bullet and he looks at he starts walking down the driveway and he says this is my last one and i said oh my god i said something nice to the lone ranger he's gonna give me his last silver bullet and i like hold out my hand like that movie the oscar i hold out my hand to take it and he walks right by me and hands it to rob ward and, maybe your son would like it. Oh, wow. Still, it's a beautiful story.

And he called you Kimo Sabe. That's right. And he called you Kimo Sabe. It's like you could die and go to heaven. I almost did. He really got screwed anyway by, you know, poor Clayton Moore. Well, you know, just remember that, you know, everybody, all the other Westerns, James Garner, Gene Barry, Steve McQueen, these guys went on to big things, you know,

and no one else was left to open the supermarkets and do auto car dealer promotions, which, by the way, if you've ever said, Jay Thomas has the best Lone Ranger story. Oh, we had him tell it here. You did? Oh. Years ago. The other thing with Clayton Moore, when they decided to do the Lone Ranger movie, they legally put a ban on Clayton Moore dressing up as the Lone Ranger.

No, no. He couldn't call himself the Lone Ranger and he couldn't wear the mask. The powder blue onesie and the hat were not trademarked. So he roamed the country in a pair of like Yoko Ono-ish oversized sunglasses. Yes, that was always disturbing. Yes, that was always disturbing. A reporter said to him, if it's decided that you can't wear the mask, what are you going to do? And he said, then I won't wear the mask.

I'm not going to break the law. I'm the Lone Ranger. And he believed it. He believed it. He believed it. A fiery horse with the speed of light, a cloud of dust, and a hearty hi-yo silver. The Lone Ranger.

Hi-yo silver! Away! With his faithful Indian companion, Tonto, the daring and resourceful masked rider of the plains, led the fight for law and order in the early west. Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear. The Lone Ranger code was stricter than a kosher kitchen. Was it because of the movie, that terrible legend of the Lone Ranger? Yes, they wanted to focus attention not on what they did 25 years ago,

but what they had coming out. And they would have been better off sticking with Clayton. It's a beautiful story. Gilbert, I think, wants to call bullshit on Bill and Joe, by the way, not only on the Honeymooners, but also their claim that Huckleberry Hound was an homage to Keaton. Yes. Oh, look at the hat. Look at the hat.

Stealing Huckleberry Hound. Stealing Andy Griffith's shtick. Yogi Bear sounded strangely like Art Carney. Hello there. Hey, boo-boo. Hey, Ralphie. Yeah, I hear that. Here's a question from a listener, Brian.

A listener? Jonathan Sloman in the UK. His question is Puchinski. And then he says, oh, sorry, you wanted questions. Puchinski? Puchinski, yes. This is a pilot the year that I did those pilots for John's company. I did five pilots that year. And one of them that I was involved in was Puchinski. pilots that year for the, and one of them that I was involved in was Puchinski. David Kirshner would later be the executive producer of the Flintstones and ran Bill and Joe's film operation. And Lon Diamond, who I'd write the Beaver movie with later on,

they had this story about a reincarnated, a police, a hard-nosed police detective who was played, who the hell played? Peter Boyle. That's right. Peter Boyle played him. And he's murdered and he's reincarnated as a crime-solving animatronic bulldog.

I think it's on YouTube. I think people can find it. I know that people can find it and I'm going to find a way to eliminate it. It was, number one, I had won. I'd been very successful as a director doing single-camera stuff over at Universal. And here I was at Fox on this development, and they didn't want me to direct it. They wanted somebody who'd never shot one camera to direct it.

Good move. And so David was very much into, you know, he did Chucky. And he was very much into animatronics as a way to create something that you couldn't. This was in the days before CGI. CGI. And so ILM, Industrial Light and Magic, which I think Luke is still owned at that point, was hired to make the animatronic

Bulldog Puppet. And somewhere along the lines, the blueprints got screwed up so that the legs were twice as long. Twice as long. I mean, they should have been, Bulldog's leg is like four inches. These were like 16.

And so when he sat, it was like he was resting his elbows on the ground. And then you could only shoot him in a close-up, and it was a mess. Why do I remember a real dog from the actual pilot? Well, yes, but when he talked, he when he did something when he reacted to something and he tilted his head and cocked his ear and narrowed his eyes uh you know that that was the puppet uh and and you you were involved in a legendary showbiz moment in uh when Fonzie on Happy Days jumped the shark. Oh, he was there. I was there.

I started writing for Happy Days when I was 23 years old. When I finished working there, I was 31. And I didn't come in until the fourth season, for God's sakes. And when I did, they were pretty much on top of the world. Laverne and Shirley, their spinoff was the number one show. They had survived a very difficult beginning to become one of those once-in-a-generation mega worldwide hits. And everybody loved each other.

And the finish line was far, far far away and it was a great time for the show and they had scored big in their third season doing um doing Fonzie jumping garbage cans and then they had Pinky Tuscadero sure the three-parter and Gary my mother always used to say you know when a show's in trouble? When they go to Hollywood. And sure enough, here's my first season on Happy Days, and where do they start? They're going to Hollywood. And, you know, Henry had weird athletic skills. He could dance the kazaka.

Is that how you call that Russian thing where you throw your arms and your legs? Very popular at bar mitzvahs. He could do that. He could fence beautifully and he water skied. So Gary was very much into taking advantage of people's skills. And so he came up with this thing that they're going there for a screen test for Paramount Pictures. And Fonzie's going to jump a shark. And Fonzie's going to jump a shark.

And, you know, when I first heard this, when I first heard this, you know, I was the bottom guy on the totem pole. There are a lot of very much older, established people. And, you know, I said to Bob Brunner, you know, this is, I don't know about this. And he goes, very clearly, that's what Gary wants. And so it was done. And I was actually there my first day on set as a writer. Every day when we were out on location during that shoot and not on stage 19, a different writer was sent out to be there if they needed a line.

And of course, the day they sent me out, they weren't doing anything on land. They were just in the boat doing all the coverage of Henry. And I watched his stunt double jump a, jump about a 20 foot, you know, just a bunch of buoys, basically, in a stock footed shark that was put in post. But Henry was very, really good on water skis. You know, it's very difficult in order to keep him dry. And he's wearing his leather jacket, and he's got his hair all slicked. And so he had to take off from land.

It's very tough on a flat lake in Wisconsin. You know, Henry had to do it in the Pacific, and he did that. And his dismount, which is on the film, was even better. He just glided right up to the shore and onto the sand and literally stepped out of his skis and threw his hands up in the air. And that was very impressive. But, you know, here it is that people are, well, this was the beginning of the end of Happy Days. And it was and it wasn't because there were so many, many wonderful, wonderful shows that eclipsed what was the best of the early shows in many ways. And there were also seasons where loyalists weren't at the helm, and it suffered there.

And I left Happy Days in the middle of the sixth season because I sold a pilot, Ron Levitt, who later created Married with Children, and I sold Brothers and Sisters. It debuted after the Super Bowl and then was the most painful 12 weeks of my life. Right, right, right. And tell us about Jingle All the Way. Well, Jingle is a story of redemption in my life. I have to say, you're very candid and you're very frank about the experience in the book. and you're very frank about the experience in the book. Well, it was, you know, I was suckered into it because I opened up the script and it said,

and they're manufacturing toys. Now, for a guy who collects toys, all I could see from that point on was a shelf in my office with Turbo Man and the booster and everybody and all the ancillary stuff. And indeed, I do have that shelf today. But maybe I should have been paying more attention to story development and character. It turns 25 this year.

It does, and I'm sure I'll be doing a far more public apology in some theater in Hollywood. Well, we should point out that, again, you're very honest in the book. You got a Razzie nomination. You say you went into director's jail. But having said that, it's a film that over time has found a new life and new fans. Yes. And people still send you things to sign. Every day.

Part of you wants to run away from it, I would imagine, and part of you now is, you know, you also have to embrace it because it's being re-evaluated. The feelings about the film are best embodied in the 24-inch Turbo Man that was the object of the parade scene and the conclusion of getting the kid the toy. getting the kid the toy. And I always had envisioned, you know, getting a beautiful plexiglass stand for it and having it sit in my office and us sharing our life together. And for the next 20 years or so, I left it in a box in the garage. And finally, you know, I'm on campus a lot. I teach at two schools and I do a lot of speaking. And the only thing anybody ever asked me to sign is their family's VHS copies of Jing. And the only thing anybody ever asks me to sign is their family's VHS copies of Jingle all the way,

and they send me fan art. That's great. And there's incredible work that people do. I got two new Jingle t-shirts this week, for God's sake. Wow. And I finally... The action figures are expensive. I was looking them up.

They're in the box about $750. Some of them are two and three grand. No, no. Those are copies. Oh, okay. Okay. There weren't that many. But, you know, people love it, and I feel much better about it than I did.

And, you know, I threw my heart and soul into it. Arnold was great. Martin Mull, you know, I threw my heart and soul into it. Arnold was great. Martin Mull, you know, albums I had when I was 15. Robert Conrad. Robert Conrad. I was a huge Wild Wild West fan. Sinbad was a ball of energy and great fun.

Phil Hartman. My buddy Jim Belushi came in. Danny Woodburn, who was later being Viva Rock Vegas. That's a great cast. He remained a friend. Rita Wilson had been on two happy days. Sure. Phil Hartman, who is later being Viva Rock Vegas. That's a great cast. And it remained a friend. Rita Wilson had been on two happy days. Sure. Phil Hartman, we did mention.

I'm getting to Phil. Phil was – I love Phil. I first met him. I approached him to do a reading. The Farrelly brothers and I and David Goodman again and who else? A couple other people. We wrote for Imagine a parody of Die Hard called Blowhard. And we did a spectacular reading.

Tony Danza played the Bruce Willis role, and Lorraine Newman did it, and Phil Hartman came in to play the villain Euro Disney. And he was just— Euro Disney. Euro Disney. He just crushed it. And he came in, they had sent him in

to read for Sinbad's part. And he read it, and you could see it wasn't him. And so I said, look, would you mind, there's another part here. Maybe you take a look at it. And he was kind of reluctant,

and Chris Columbus was there. And so I guess he figured, bad idea not to do it. And so he just of reluctant. And, you know, Chris Columbus was there. And so I guess he figured, bad idea not to do it. And so just picks up the scene, doesn't look it over. Nothing just launches into it. And instantaneously, we knew that he was the right fit. And he recognized it as well. And we had a great time with him.

And what happened to him was so incredibly sad. It was his next to the last thing he ever did. And we never met his wife until the premiere, but he used to speak of her. And those who few may not know is Phil was murdered by her, and then she took her own life. But he always talked about her as trying to get her engaged in activities that he and the kids liked so that they would be together more uh and like like boating he loved boats he i've never seen anybody who enjoyed his fame and wealth more than phil did you know one day he drove a brand new ferrari onto the middle of and go, excuse me, can you tell me where a

crew parking is? And, you know, and it was improvising like that. The one where he says to Arnold, you can't bench press your way out of this one, right off the top of his head. He was sensational. Everybody we talked to about him, everybody that worked with him and interacted with him just says wonderful things about him. seems seems like he was a beloved guy he deserved that terrible terrible tragedy we will return to gilbert godfrey's amazing colossal podcast but first a word from our sponsor no you worked with elizabeth taylor yes yes She was in the Flintstones. When we were first going through names, Kathy Kennedy said, when it came to Wilma's mother-in-law, what about Elizabeth Taylor? And I said, I've got her at the top of my list, too.

And I did. But that was the only one like the pie in the sky. But finally, we figured out how to get her to do it. And that was, we, we offered to make, uh, the premiere a benefit for her AIDS foundation. And, uh, and that, uh, turned the key to have her do her first film in 18 years. And, uh, the day, the first day of rehearsal, uh, the studio put up a banner, welcome back Elizabeth, and everybody but me on the entire crew wore a tie out of respect. I just couldn't do that. And she said, you know, so what's with you, schlub? She looks like she's having the time of her life making that picture. I think she was very happy to be back on a stage. I've observed that people who grew up on sound stages are sometimes more comfortable within studio walls than outside of them. And she was

fawned over sufficiently. And the first day she showed up for rehearsals, she was wearing, you know, like a pair of black jeans and a little white t-shirt and a hat with a flower on it and no makeup, not a drop. And she was literally one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen in my life. She was in her like 63, 64 at the time. And she was just stunning. And her eyes were a color like you've never seen. And we had a lot of fun. And I did a terrible, terrible thing one day.

We're shooting the scene where she's been tied up by the villains and Pebbles and Bam Bam have been kidnapped and so you know she's on the floor and our prop man Russell Bobbitt is tying her hands and she looks up at him says you know men have been trying to do this to me for decades and and so we're getting ready to shoot and uh and i'm walking it back to the camera and i get an idea and i turn around and go hey john and so filled with the idea i didn't notice that i her foot and i stepped right on her barefoot full 200 pounds hard on her foot and she screamed bloody murder and and i'm apologizing profusely and, like, feeling so terrible.

And, you know, they help her off the stage. 20 minutes we're sitting there. We don't know what's going to happen. She comes back in on crutches. She's all bandaged up. Oh, E.T., I'm so sorry. She hated to be called Liz, Elizabeth or E.T. And I feel so—I can't believe I did that.

You know, I'm just wallowing in this and people start laughing behind me. And she was pranking us. She was fine. See, George Clooney isn't the only one. Pranked by Elizabeth Taylor. Another honor. Almost as big an honor as being booted from Groucho's house. Boy, I'm really scoring today. Here's one for you, Brian, from Rob Martinez. Does Brian still remember how to wake up Beauregard Burnside's on the Garfield Goose Show? True Chicago kids of our age will remember. Thanks for keeping the spirit of Frazier Thomas, Ray Rayner, and Bill Jackson alive. Well, that's very nice. Yes, to wake him up, he would say, hot dogs, hamburgers, spaghetti, and

meatballs. But, this was stolen from Howdy Doody. Word for word, that was a phrase that they would use with Flub-a-Dub. The combination of seven different animals. A very creative puppet. I knew you would remember.

I had no doubts. How can I forget? Garfield Goose in Chicago was the longest-running puppet show in history. 29 years it lasted. Larry Karaszewski. So I grew up... Larry Karaszewski was like 15, 16 years younger, was still watching it. You made that point in the book that you think Chicago filmmakers like Zemeckis and John Hughes and people like that were influenced, were similarly influenced by the kinds of television that you guys were all exposed to.

Well, you know, in Chicago, after school, let's face it, there's winter and there's road repair. Those are the only two seasons in Chicago. And so you end up in your basement watching after school TV, you know, even when you didn't want to be. And the combination of Looney Tunes, The Three Stooges, and Lassie, and Leave It to Beaver, and it was this wildness and this kind of grounded family softness that I think is kind of ingrained in all of the Chicago filmmakers' work. Paul Brickman, John Hughes, I mean, Zemeckis. I think we're all kind of of the same, I don't know what you call it, the same family of comedy.

That's fascinating, actually. And I remember, too, watching the Bowery Boys. See, I always thought, I watched the Bowery Boys. They were on Saturday afternoons All those monogram features Yes, yes The cheapies And I always felt that they were second rate

You know, when I finally saw Dead End The movie that the Dead End kids premiered in With Humphrey Bogart They were fantastic And it was kind of like neorealism You know, with these, these gutter kids, you know, swimming in the East river and shit. Uh, but, uh, but, but I always, I always felt it was so cheap and that these guys were just doing it for a paycheck.

And they thought this, you say in the book, you thought the stooges were second rate too. I, I, I believe that people who do nothing but repeat the same routines again and again and again are guilty of a sin in comedy, which is not to expand and grow and try different things. Gilbert, don't take that personally. Yes. No, Gilbert will never go with the easy. Gilbert will always strive to do more. That's the truth. That's what I admire about him.

And before, you know, I follow you on Instagram, Gilbert. And I got to tell you, having known you now for like 30 years, not very well, but to see the pictures with your kids on Instagram, you look so goddamn happy. It's really, it's very heartwarming to see. It kind of humanizes you. It really does. Let's not go that far, Brian. Yeah, if such a thing is possible.

Did you see the documentary about Gilbert? I'm aware of it. I have not seen it. Oh, you should see it. Well, it does a fine job of humanizing him. And it's a tall order. Yes. So write that down.

The documentary is Gilbert. And where could I find this? Where documentaries are sold, of course. It's worth it. And yeah, it's fun. And it's a different side of him. One of the things that touched me about the book, and we really have to plug this book, and I sent Gilbert the galley or the PDF that you shared with us.

And when we described it as eye-popping or an eyeful in the introduction, we weren't kidding. I mean, these are, and the photographs are wonderful, by the way. Let's shout out Joe Pellegrini and the art direction of Samuel Herndon, because it's a beautiful-looking book. Thank you. Thank you. And I'm very proud to announce that here is an exclusive for your show that comes early January 2022. My Life and Toys will be available, being published by Insight Editions. And hopefully in the next couple months, people will have a chance to begin pre-ordering this.

And if you're a collector, a person who loves film, loves comedy, who loves smiling figures. Oh, everything is in there. I mean, I thought it was going to be toys. When I saw the book My Life in Toys, I thought, oh, he's a toy collector. I didn't count on, you know, postcards and signs and product mascots and soda bottles and cameras and typewriters and wristwatches and cereal boxes. I'm not a very good collector. Most people collect one thing, and they collect the best of it. And I just, I'm all over the place, but I love too many things, and it's very visual and visceral, and I see something, and I have to have it. Yeah, it's beautiful. Do you own your own town to keep all these things in?

No. Unlike a lot of people I know, my wife, you know, she's allowed me to fill our house, stem to stern, with all this stuff, and it's a bright and fun place to live. That's an understanding spouse, Brian. Yes.

No, I know most guys, you know, they got their Batmobiles. I can only show them at the office. What is the rough number? I mean, it's numbering in the hundreds. It's thousands of pieces. Thousands and thousands of pieces. Yes. I have no idea. I have much too much, and it's about time to start thinning things out a bit, I think. time to start thinning things out a bit, I think. It's really a wonderful... I mean, I called my wife into the room just to see the typewriters, and I'm a cereal box guy. I'm wearing my Quisp

t-shirt. This is an audio podcast, of course, but I'm wearing my Quisp t-shirt as a way to pay respect. And I'm wearing a Happy Days. And he's wearing a Happy Days shirt. But I mean, there's artwork, and I said there's the lenticular rings which i used to collect yeah and uh and the trading cards and the comic books and then there's a there's a superman and a batman and then and it's also the history of of as i said american advertising yeah uh like i said we i collect a lot of different things and i think the difference between this and most books which like collections are very focused is it gives you a very wide look at the the things that for the past hundred years have fascinated us uh in our culture you'd be the person to ask this because

i remember it very well as a kid in the back of comic books you could pay for a live monkey to be saved. Yes. Yes. I'm sure it arrived dead. Yes, I heard that. I heard that the monkey

or whatever those are called. Yes, yes. The monkey would arrive either dead or dying. Yeah. And alligators too. They would send you baby alligators. This was a wonderful world we grew up in. Yeah, incredible.

And in Miami, they had, you know, at the gift shop at the airport, it was all these dead baby alligators and sunglasses and Hawaiian shirts lying on lounge chairs posed with cameras and baseball gloves. It was just horrible. It was just animal abuse. I have to read a little passage from the book, Brian. I found this very touching. You got to meet the great Chuck Jones. Yes.

And you were sitting across from him and you said there was a gleam in the man's eye that you could see that he seemed like a child. He did not seem to you. He had all that exuberance and all that youthful energy. And you go on to point out that people like him and Walter Lance and Hanna-Barbera and Charles Schultz and Will Eisner and Karl Barks, that all of these people who chose this way to make a living managed to work forever and in a way find a fountain of youth. You make the statement in the book that humor, you believe humor may be one of the true fountains of youth. I thought that was touching. I believe that these people spent their lives doing little more than trying to make children laugh.

Yeah. And were amazingly successful. And they built amazingly successful lives and families from that. And I always look at them as an example of people who never lost the innocence and the joy or their sense of purpose. I mean, Chuck Jones, to have dinner with Chuck Jones was an incredible experience. What a thrill. Because you don't realize just how wise people can be and outer space, sci-fi and Westerns. And, you know, his taste ran the gamut. And he taught us a lot about how to enjoy life.

And the light never dimmed in him. I mean, when we met him, he was, I don't know, 86, 87. And you could tell he was looking forward to the next day. That's great. You say, too, these individuals found lifetimes of joy pursuing the ability to think like a child. Yeah. It sets profound. You know, comedians seem to live a long time, too.

I mean, look at how long Burl lived and George Burns and Bob Hope and comedy writers. Bob Hope was 103, for God's sakes. Comedy writers live forever, too. Well, just the ones on your show of shows. But I think these are people who spend their lives sitting in rooms, eating deli food, and trying to make each other laugh. And I think that's a very worthwhile way to spend your life. Rather than being aggravated and fighting with people,

and you're kind of insulated. You know, the writer's room is a unique institution and place. And that's why I teach today. We do writer's rooms and write sitcoms and try and kind of spread the kind of merging of structure and improvisational thinking that go into creating these things. And sometimes the joy really comes out. Good for you in paying it back by the way and uh you know of course the book opens with you talking about how growing up watching benny and burns and alan and all these people you didn't realize that you were getting a comedy class you

didn't realize you were being taught structure and character did anybody nobody no no certainly not it it always uh i i always think back and thinking that the greatest film school in the country was your living room. Yeah. You'd turn on the TV, there'd be movies from like the 20s and then followed by variety shows and then a movie from all eras, all different types of things you were exposed to. Well, because the station, let's face it, they didn't have a lot of money. Yes. That's right.

And it wasn't until 1955 when the studios finally even got into the TV business. And then there was just Warner Brothers. So they were just plucking libraries. You know, like Flash Gordon played on Sunday mornings in Chicago forever, you know, on at 6 a.m. And I noticed, like, I think Channel 5 had all the Warner brothers, Bogart, Cagney, and Robinson. And then I think Nine would have like, you know, Janie and Lugosi and Karloff. Yeah, they bought different packages. I remember the days before cable, I remember that on New Year's Eve or Christmas Eve, they would roll out some Marx Brothers movies.

And what a big deal that was. That you'd wait all year. There was no VHS. You'd wait all year to see Horse Feathers at the Sea Monkey business. It took me 13 years to see all 13 films. Wow. There you go. Now you can buy the two box sets and be done.

Done. We had hardships in those days. Any words about the late great Charles Grodin, who we just lost? Oh, yeah. No, I am very, very grateful to him. The whole Beethoven thing could have been a huge disaster on many fronts, but he chose to trust me and collaborate. And Ivan Reitman, you know, in his sweet way said, if something doesn't work, fix it.

And so that led to a lot of him. We had Bonnie Hunt and Charles Grodin and Stanley Tucci and Oliver Platt and Dean Jones. Dean Jones, yeah. Patricia Heaton and David Duchovny. And, you know, I would say a substantial amount of the movie was just made up on the spot. Wow. It drove our wonderful script girl mad.

But it worked. We created an environment where everyone contributed and we worked things out. I had no rehearsal. I didn't have time to storyboard anything. We just kind of went by the seat of our pants. And that was, that was, that forced me to, to get it right the first time. And luckily, you know, we're, we're, you know, I wasn't the director. I didn't hire the crew. They weren't happy to see me. The person they were loyal to was back in Texas or something.

And so it turned out to be a great experience. And Ivan and his people, all very talented people. Michael Chinich put that cast together. all very talented people. You know, Michael Chinich put that cast together. And Ivan, you know, the first time our music editor did a temp score, he threw the guy out and spent the next day taking the cues that we had picked for the guy to use and recut them himself, him and Sheldon Kahn, the Academy Award-winning editor.

And you just learned. I mean, here's how you do a temp score, right? And it was right there. And for someone who was still very inexperienced, Beethoven was the second feature meeting I'd ever taken. You're clearly someone who doesn't believe in the adage, don't work with children and animals. No, I've made a career out of it.

But I love working with you. When I got to Bad News Bears out of it. But I love working with you. When I got to Bad News Bears, I discovered how much I loved working with children and working with people like Bill Asher, who directed The Witch and I Love Lucy. And he would put an Apple box down next to the lens and sit eight-year-old Corey Feldman down it. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

Da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Good, try again. Da-da, just keep it rolling. Cut and print. Moving on. And, you know, how we encouraged these kids to do better and to really see what they could do and challenge themselves all the time and to be on and to know what was expected of them. And it was, you know, working with people like Jerry Parrott, Howard Storm directed a lot of my early episodes. Oh, I love, we had Howard here. Yes. No, I love Howard.

Yeah, we love Howard. You work with some wonderful, Milt Josephsburg is another name. You work with some wonderful behind the scenes people. Yeah, well, Gary Marshall. Jerry Parrott. When Gary Marshall started to kind of relieve himself of his TV obligations, he never fully left. But, you know, he wasn't doing the day-to-day. But he wanted the people who taught him what he'd learned.

And so he had Harry Crane, who did The Honeymooners. Harry Crane, Gil. And Milt Josephsberg there to kind of mentor young people like me. And that extended beyond, you know, there was a lot of stories. I remember on Kay Kaisa's summer show in 1947. There was a lot of that. But there was also a lot of things about, you know, how to have a career and raise a family and things that you wouldn't get anywhere else. Well, you know, reading about Gary in your book, you know, as a comedy writer myself,

one is immediately envious of the environment that he creates and how intent he is on turning everything into a family, running it like that and letting people shine and not letting ego get in the way. But also sharing the spotlight. Yeah. Every year on Happy Days, every character, quote, had a show. You know, that he knew how to keep people happy. He knew how to engage them as a group. The Happy Days softball team is a magnificent example of his team building skills that the Sunday softball team

that he wanted to cast young guys and Ron taught Henry how to play and Tom Bosley was a baseball nut and and we got Scott Baio who was an all all Brooklyn little leaguer and Ted McGinley was an all-American water polo player and we played as an opening act for 27 major league games. We did charity games and the Orange Bowl and the Superdome and USO tours to Germany and Okinawa and Japan. And, you know, we only lost like a handful of games. And half the time we were on the field with people we didn't deserve to be. You know, you go to Philadelphia in front of 57,000 people, and there's four ex-NBA players, Richie Ashburn from the Hall of Fame.

Sure. He's in left field. And it's like we tied them two to two. I mean, what writer, and you were 23, and, you know, again, speaking for myself, what writer doesn't want to be in that environment and work for employers like that? You know, and be in a room like that. It was a clinic in how to be successful and then what to do when you were successful and how to treat people. Yeah.

He was a guest that got away for us. We would have really loved to have had him here. Well, you know, there are many accolades around, including his sister ronnie who is the associate producer happy days for many years uh scotty is a great uh storyteller about his dad and working with him in the later years at lowell gans you should have those guys on we will it would be a great show um we should have you know gary gary was you know he brought things out in people. And his funeral was the most amazing thing I've ever seen. You know, I mean, Bette Midler sang, Tom Hanks and Julia Roberts spoke, Henry spoke.

And it ended with the Northwestern marching band coming out from backstage, playing the Happy Days theme, marching up the aisle. Another beloved figure. But a showman, a showman. You know, he was. And where did he learn? From Carl Reiner, from working for Danny Thomas early on and doing the Lucy show. He learned at the feet of great people, and he took what he learned there and tried to make it his own. You've had a wonderful journey, my friend, and you're a terrific guest.

Why, thank you. I can't believe it took us this long to have you. I mean, you've had Michael Oliver before me. That's okay. That was Gilbert's doing. No, no, get the kid who was on the geek squad, not the guy who's devoted his life to comedy. No, no, no. kid who was on the geek squad. Not the guy who's devoted his life to comedy. No, no, no.

No, he's a good guy. We did, for the John Ritter Foundation, we did a photo shoot a couple years ago. Michael was there, Ivy Ann Schwan, the little girl from Problem Child, and Amy and Scott and Larry. And I told him, you know him that he had gotten a bad rap as a kid. That he was the only child actor I've ever worked with who would read books

between takes, who was always prepared, always knew his lines and was very disciplined. And there were problems with his family in the studio that I think derailed what could have been

a more promising career. But he was a real good kid and he's a good really good man now it seems like it's nice yeah yeah we thought we liked having him nice about Michael all of his life now is you know he accepts that he used to be in showbiz but now he's just like he works with computers and he's clean. He's not a junkie. He's not a drug addict. Like all these. Like the cast of Different Strokes. Yes, exactly.

Exactly. He's totally, you know, like normal. Yes, and that's wondrous. Given what he went through and the tsunami that he faced. Don't use that word on this show, Brian. Oh, yeah. But, you know, I'm sure he couldn't go to the mall for years without people, you know, hey, Junior. I bet.

Gilbert, if there's a Problem Child 9, will you be in it? All right, sure. What the fuck else am I doing? I tried to reboot it a couple years ago Problem Child, the new beginning and Gilbert would have been the person who in each film dropped him off with a new family

to a new beginning the thread we're going to have to direct people to your Instagram account which is also similarly eye-popping Greg Perra one of our social media directors is a toy collector people too to your instagram account which is also similarly eye-popping uh so and greg para one of our social media directors is a toy collector and he has told he just told me he spent days on your instagram page oh well there's so it's it's a treat for collectors so is the book

my life and toys coming in 2022 uh brian we could go on for hours. Well, I don't have much water left here. We'll make people buy the book, too, because, well, not make them. They're going to want to buy the book. But there's also a great Captain Kangaroo story, which we won't tell. There's plenty of anecdotes in the book, and it's a page-turner, and it is beautiful to look at. Thank you. I appreciate that. I can't wait to put it on my coffee table. And, and it is beautiful to look at. Thank you. I appreciate that. I can't wait to put it on my coffee table. And, yes, make Gilbert pay for his.

Well, it's been too long, Gilbert. Frank, you're great. Love meeting with you. Thank you for handling all the details involved. Oh, of course. Of course. We want to thank Land and Aristotle, too, and our friends at Starburns Audio for

bringing Brian in and opening up the studio for us, which they've now done two weeks in a row to give us a shot at quality audio. And Brian, you know, so much. You've done so much. You've met everybody. I mean, you know, from Groucho

to Captain Kangaroo to Chuck Jones to Buffalo Bob. What an adventure. We didn't even talk about Barbara Billingsley and Beaver, but we'll have you back. That would be great. I'd love to. What a ride. So this has been Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre and we've been talking to the man who during the making of Problem Child 2 taught me how to take it in

the face. He's not going to let it go. Brian Levent. What was that about somebody who keeps doing the same bit over and over again? And happy birthday, Scott Alexander. Yes, indeed. All right, Brian.

Happy birthday, Scott. We'll see you soon, pal. Thank you. I really appreciate it. This was great fun. Bye-bye. The Abba Dabba Doo! Flitstones, meet the Flitstones They're the modern Stone Age family

From the town of Bedrock They're a page right out of history Let's ride with the family down the street Through the courtesy of Mr. B Welcome with the Flintstones Have a yabba-dabba-doo time A dabba-doo time We'll have a gator time Thank you. The Flintstones!

Flintstones, meet the Flintstones They're the modern Stone Age family From the town of Bedrock They're a page right out of history Someday, maybe Fred will win the fight And that cat will stay out all night When you're with the Flintstones Have a yabba-dabba-doo time

A dabba-doo time We'll have a gay old time We'll have a game of time Yeah!