Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Carol Kane

Episode Date: May 18, 2020

Emmy-winning actress Carol Kane joins Gilbert and Frank to talk about the cinema of the 1970s, Oscar acceptance speeches, the generosity of Jack Nicholson, the inventiveness of Andy Kaufman and her admiration for (and friendship with) the legendary Bette Davis. Also, Bill Murray takes a beating, Mike Nichols performs a magic trick, Gilbert kibitzes with Charles Durning and Carol takes a (career-changing) call from Gene Wilder. PLUS: Fritz Feld! Defending "Ishtar"! Saluting Hal Ashby! "Harry and Walter Go to New York"! And Carol Kane fills in for...Carole King?? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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with 24 layers of croissant flakiness twisted with fancy donut fun. Get ready to go all out for less. Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's amazing, colossal podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. Our guest this week is a multiple Emmy-winning and Oscar-nominated actress and a favorite performer of both Frank and myself. We've wanted to have her on this show for a long time, and it only took being trapped in her apartment to get her. apartment to get her. You've seen her work in popular TV shows such as Cheers, Seinfeld, Homicide Life on the Street, Family Guy, Girls, Gotham, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, and Taxi, taxi for which she was awarded two Emmys for her work as Simca the Blitz. And she can be currently seen as weapons expert Mindy Markowitz in Amazon's new hit series Hunters. series Hunters. She's also given memorable performances on the Broadway and Off-Broadway stage in notable films like Carnal Knowledge, The Last Detail, Annie Hall, The Muppet Movie, Dog Day Afternoon, The Princess Bride, Scrooge, Ishtar, and My Blue Heaven,

Sleepwalk With Me, and Hester Street, for which she was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Actress. In a professional career that began when she was just 14 years old, she worked with talents like Woody Allen, Mike Nichols, Elaine May, Steve Martin, Andy Kaufman, Kaufman, Bill Murray, Jack Nicholson, Sidney Lumet, and Al Pacino, as well as podcast guests Steve Buscemi, Ed Begley Jr., Lee Grant, Richard Donner, Mary Lou Henner, Richard Benjamin, and Peter Rieger. Please welcome to the podcast one of the most versatile and original performers of the last five decades, and a woman who says that job offers stopped after her Oscar nomination until she was rescued by the late, great Gene Wilder. The fabulous Carol Kane. Well, sadly, our time is up now. It's a long intro, Carol.

Now, Carol, I guess you remember the first time and maybe only time we worked together. Uh-oh. Oh, yeah. All I remember about it is that the producers had to separate us because I couldn't stop laughing at Gilbert. He just broke me up every second, and they had to separate us, like being bad at school.

Yeah, I think it was Billy and Mandy Save Christmas, and we were Mr. and Mrs. Claus. I see, my darling. And you, I would say something, you'd start cracking up, and then I'd watch you laugh. And then after a while, it got to that point where if either one of us looked at each other, we would double over. It could not be done.

He has that effect on people. Does that happen to a lot of people, Gilbert? Oh, yeah. And it was funny because he did treat us like he said okay you uh wait outside we're gonna do it one at a time and it was like talking like two bad kids we were yeah carol just so we don't leave the listeners hanging tell us about uh what what we put in the intro there about you after Hester Street, you got the Oscar nomination. And strangely enough, the phone stopped ringing as what people would expect would be the opposite reaction. That's right. It was really a solid year where you literally pick up the phone like if you're in love with somebody and they're not in love with you and you're waiting for the phone to ring.

And every so often then you have to pick up the phone to see if there's a dial tone, if the phone is working. But no, it wasn't ringing, but it was working. And, you know, the character that i was nominated for giggle giggle yeah he uh was a russian orthodox jew and only spoke yiddish for the first two thirds of the movie and wore a shidle a horsehair shidle which is a religious wig to cover a married woman's real hair for modesty and so they're not a lot of those parts going around and because you know Hollywood did and still does tend to typecast you know nobody had anything for me because they thought it had to be sort of that same character or nothing, you know, so it was nothing.

And then Gene called. Gene Wilder called me one day out of the clear blue sky and offered me The World's Greatest Lover, which was a comedy. I had never done a comedy at all. I have no idea what made him think that I could do it, but he did. He had faith in me, and Mel produced it. And anyway, I think the movie is really good, although it didn't get a lot of advertising because of certain things about when it came out. I watched it yesterday. It holds up surprisingly well. I hadn't seen it since the 70s.

Do you remember Gilbert, the world's greatest lover? Oh, yes. And also, I was going to say, now, Carol, you came along, or got well-known, during the strange and great time of film in the 70s. Yes. I was lucky, you know what. And so you've worked with Al Pacino, I think, twice now. Well, there again, you'd be wrong, Gilbert.

Well, okay. Won't be the first time in this interview. Because the thing is, yes, in movies, I did do Dog Day Afternoon with him. And then, you know, lo, these many 40-something years later, we did Hunters together, the TV series. But when we first knew each other, we also did several plays together at the Public Theater and in Boston.

Yeah, so we did The Resistible Rise of Arturo Uli at the Public and in Boston with the great John Cazale in both productions. Oh, yeah, great John Cazale. Did you see Pacino originally in a show called, do I have this right, Does a Tiger Wear a Necktie? Yes, I did. I did. Did you? No, but I saw it in the notes and I found it interesting that you said you knew he had something right away. You knew he had a certain kind of star quality oh god yes from the second he walked on the stage he was oh i mean i shouldn't say this because it's not no i'm not going to say it but he just was absolutely mesmerizing

whether he was talking or not talking or sitting or moving. He was mesmerizing. That it factor, he had it. He had it in spades, and he still does. And what was he like? Oh, and by the way, last week was his 80th birthday. Yes. And didn't Pacino, excuse me, didn't Nicholson just turn 80? I believe that Jack is.

I think he did. I believe Jack is, or maybe you're right. 80 or 85. He just had a birthday. No, I think he's 80. Well, I don't know. But yes, I do know that he just had a birthday a little before Al's. Yeah. And you were in a movie that we discussed a few times on this show, The Less Detail. Yeah. Jack Nicholson. Yes, and Carnal Knowledge with Jack Nicholson. But yes. And Randy Quaid.

Randy Quaid. And it was directed by, again, the late, great Hal Ashby. Tell us something about Ashby. I don't think we've had too many people, Gil, who've been on this show who've worked with Hal Ashby. No. Have we had anybody? I think so. I don't think so either.

Well, I had been doing a lot of work in Toronto, even though I'm not Canadian, but I did a movie there called Wedding in White with Donald Pleasance. And then I came back to do the PR for that movie and was aware of the fact that Hal was there scouting for the last detail. And when the publicity ended, then they wouldn't put me up at the hotel anymore. But I had a friend, Graham Beckle, who was doing a paper chase, John Hausman. And anyway, he let me sleep on his couch.

And I wrote a letter to Hal at the fancy hotel he was staying at. And then I just kept my fingers crossed for two, three days. And then I got a call to come meet him at his hotel, which I did. And he gave me this part. He didn't make me audition for anything. And Hal, you know, he was just such a unique, fantastic personality. And he had this thing about him, which was sometimes problematical, but also just so exciting when you're working with him,

that if something happened that was funny, Hal would just bust out laughing, even during the takes. So sometimes you have to do it again. You know, Rob does that sometimes too, Rob Reiner. But it's very unique for a person to get so carried away and be so free with their feelings as to just let them fly, even though they're shooting, you know. And he was just a gorgeous, gorgeous artist and gorgeous gentleman.

I know you're a film buff too, Carol, as we are. Look at that run of films for Ashby in the 70s. I mean, The Landlord and The Last Detail and Shampoo. Harold and Maude. And Harold and Maude with your friend Bud Cort. Yeah. Oh, and we did have someone who worked with Hal Ashby. That would be Lee Grant in Shampoo.

Oh, sure. Oh, okay. And also in, oh, no, i guess how was the editor on the landlord direct he directed the landlord oh right well with bridges and bridges he was in that too she was so great that's right that's right she was great run of films gilbert that's one of your favorites the last detail uh yeah talked about it on the show before, a lot. Yeah. It's from the 70s.

And the 70s was that time where they said that the inmates had taken over the asylum. Yeah, well, thank the Lord, right? Yeah. Did you ever read that book, Easy Riders, Raging Bulls, Carol? Yes. Yeah. And it was very much out of that period yeah they made the kind of movies that wouldn't even be filmed nowadays yeah what do you what do you mean by that gilbert well it seems like me but i'm not sure why it seems like they were like a film like the last detail they go what we're just following

these three guys around you know there's who's gonna see that no that's right there's no uh uh what do you call it there's no fabulous sets or uh yeah there's not there's that production value is only that it be true, that it look true, sound true and be true. That was the production value. Well, as a character study, movies like Panic in Needle Park and Serpico and a lot of these films that were being made at that time

all fall into that category. There's no explosions. There's no big set pieces. There's no car chases no and sometimes there's no a lot of times there's no big ending it just kind of ends just stops panic i saw that recently again and it just kind of stops yeah and then watch it this weekend they're just gonna keep going you don't know where but it stops and for me though yeah i just watched it too and what i what just about killed me was the scene with the dog on the ferry do you remember that oh yes yes he kicks the dog out because they want to shoot up and the little doggy puppy that they just got it falls off the side of the

ferry the staten island ferry oh my god that that and that kitty win boys you know you're 19 years old and you're working with hal ashby nicholson and robert town it doesn't get much better and in a way you're you're almost if i'm if i'm correct in saying this carol you, you're almost, if I'm correct in saying this, Carol, you're too young even to grasp the enormity of this and who these people are. Of course, they were still building their resumes and their legacies. Yeah. Maybe I think I knew how lucky I was. You did. Great. I knew how lucky I was. You did, great. I was aware of their other work and I had been acting

professionally since I was 14. So that was you know about five years later. All the last uh carnal knowledge was before that I think I was 17 or 18. Um Jules Feiffer, you know. But anyway, I think that I was a tremendous perfectionist, to a fault maybe, as was my idol, Betty Davis. And when I saw the work of these directors and these writers, you know, I read, I read and watched. I knew that it was rarefied air. You did. I knew that I was speaking with brilliant, brilliant people.

You were in a play where you played Betty Davis. I was, that's right. Can I put you on the spot and hear you speak as Betty Davis? Oh, God, I don't think you can. Maybe later. Because if I do it wrong, I'll just feel so horrible. I said I'm a perfectionist.

Oh, okay. But you got to know her, Carol, as you were telling us before we turned the mics on. Oh, okay. But you got to know her, Carol, as you were telling us before we turned the mics on. Yeah, I was madly lucky, but not only lucky, because at a certain point, I lived in L.A., I was doing taxi, and I had to get a new place to live, and I saw two gorgeous apartments in very old, old Eastern looking buildings, red brick, you know, so that you didn't, they didn't feel shockingly like you were in LA.

And, and the thing that tipped the scales on which apartment was that one of them was the building that Betty Davis lived in. And, and then how I met Betty Davis. Betty Davis, should I go into that? Yes. Oh, okay. Because it's sort of a miracle how I met her. Yeah, please do. I was moving in, but then like in four days or something,

I moved in. I had to go to Sydney, Australia to make a movie. And I, you know, was still pretty young. And anyway, so I moved in. And the next day I went down to the basement and to the laundry room. It wasn't the basement, but it was the first floor of a laundry room. And I was doing my laundry and in comes a beautiful, dark-haired young woman. And her name was Catherine. And we got to talking and it turned out it was Catherine

Cermak, who I still know, who was Betty Davidson's assistant. And I told her, oh oh I was going to Sydney and I didn't know anything about where to stay or what to do or any this and that and on and on then we go we finish our laundry we dried it and everything and then we went upstairs and Catherine I think she peeked into my door and she saw that I had an old Betty Davis, what were they called? One sheets? Yeah, sure. One sheet. Yeah.

And it was framed in my apartment, even though I had only been there one day. And so then we say a pleasant goodbye. And then a little while later, something has slipped under my door, an envelope, a nice sturdy monogrammed envelope. And I open it up and it says, have been to Australia. Maybe I can help. Come for drinks at six. Betty Davis. Wow. Can you believe it? it i mean i can't even it was

it was the most stunning thing that had ever happened to me i think it just i mean and i was terrified of course you know uh and but i did you know uh i i kind of tried to dial up and get over there. It was literally right next door to my apartment. How about that? And I went over there, and she answered the door in a baseball cap, a nice clean baseball cap, no team on it, a baseball cap, a starch kind of peach- colored shirt and khakis. And she looked impeccable. But it was a whole different look, you know, for Betty Davis. And then we sat and

we had drinks and we talked and Catherine was there. She told me where to stay. And that is where I stayed for three months. And it was wonderful. Wow. Yeah. And then can I tell you one more Betty Davis? Sure. Because I love this story. It sort of makes me cry because it's about my dad and my dad is gone now. But he came to visit me in L.A., and he came with his wife, and we cleaned. I said, I'm going to invite Betty over, you know, for a cocktail if she'll come, and we cleaned and cleaned and cleaned, and he told me the best, most expensive scotch to get for her and all this stuff.

And, you know, I'd always seen her basically in her at-home look, you know. So doorbell rings. Let's say 6 o'clock again. Doorbell rings. I open the door, and there at the door for my father is Betty Davis. With fabulous hairdo, perfect makeup, a nice tight suit with the belt at the waist, high heels, Betty Davis. And she did that for my dad. How nice.

I mean, it kills me to think of that, how kind that was. You know, they always say don't meet your heroes, Carol, because you'll be disappointed. But you had, you obviously had the opposite experience. I had the total opposite experience. How lucky. Did Betty Davis ever give you any career acting or life advice? We talked about all kinds of things. Well, I told you she told me where to stay in Sydney. We talked about all kinds of things,

but it wasn't really career advice. We talked about everything, but not really career advice because she gave me my career advice which wasn't career advice it was artistic advice she gave all that to me in the movies i've been watching since i was a little kid do you still turn those movies on tcm like we do oh if you see if you stop on now voyager or all Eve, you can't change the channel. You just get drawn right into it. What's that?

It's illegal to change it. Here's another larger-than-life actress you worked with, if I have my notes correct. Shelley Winters? Yeah. We did the effective gamma rays in Men in the Marigolds on Broadway.

And yeah, she was wild and fabulous. You've worked with so many greats. You've worked. So lucky. You worked for Backstage Magazine. Yes, I did. And I had already done, I guess I had already done the last detail. I believe I had already done the last detail on carnal knowledge.

And I had various careers like working in a health food store, a candy store. And then at one point I worked stamping envelopes at Backstage Magazine. I love that. It's interesting about a young actor. You've sort of made it. You're in motion pictures working with Jack Nicholson and Mike Nichols. Yeah. But you're still going back to a day job.

Well, yeah. I mean, it's notoriously true that many already semi-well-known actors or actresses end up serving you your meal, you know. And it's funny, like people who would see you on the big screen were probably going, oh, she's in a movie. She must be a billionaire. Maybe, but they'd be wrong. I find it interesting that you both started so young, too. They'd still be wrong, by the way. What's that? They'd still be wrong.

They'd still be wrong. You both started in show business so young. Gilbert, we've talked a lot about how you started at 15 and got on the stage for the first time. Did you know that about him, Carol? I did not. A teenager like you. A teenager. And you were 14. What about him, Carol? I did not. A teenager like you. A teenager. And you were 14.

What was it, Gilbert? I went, you know, I became interested in showbiz, and I started doing imitations all the time. And then my sister Arlene found out about, from some friend of hers, they said there's some club in Manhattan that you write your name down in the book. When they get to your name, they introduce you. And I should know the name of the club, but I don't remember it. But I remember going with my two sisters up from Brooklyn to Manhattan.

And that was the first time on stage. So we have your sisters to blame. Yes. But, you know, you are so great because the thing is, that's not I mean, that that's just you and nothing else up there. You don't have a script. I mean, you haven't haven't got a storyline that someone else has stamped on you it's it's all you right yeah it it's kind of like um yeah you can't blame it uh on the script or something there's there's an old joke, a guy's on stage doing Hamlet,

and the audience is booing, and the actor says, hey, I didn't write this shit. There you go. They had someone to blame. Hey, Gil, this is a side thing, but since we were talking about Gene Wilder and The World's Greatest Lover, and another piece of trivia, Carol, that's interesting.

You were in two movies about Valentino in the same year. You were in Valentino. Were they in the same year? Wow. Yeah, Ken Russell's Valentino, and then you were in a parody about Valentino. Yeah. In the same year.

And Gilbert, Carol got to act in scenes in that movie with Fritz Feld. Oh, my God. I love Fritz Feld. I love him. And then also in Ken Russell's movie, I got to dance with Rudolf Nureyev. Nureyev. Amazing. with Rudolf Nureyev.

Nureyev. Amazing. Fritz Feld, like, cornered the market on being, like, the maitre d' or the hotel manager. Yeah, in this one, he's a hotel manager. That's what he was. He was the hotel manager. Yep.

Right. And he gives you the trademark mouth pop that he was famous for. Gilbert talks about Fritz Feld in his documentary. Yes. And the audience is scratching their heads. Can somebody send me that? Is it possible to see it?

Oh, sure. Oh, Dara's nodding. She'll get you one. Dara's nodding. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal podcast. But first, a word from our sponsor baseball is finally back get in on major league action and swing

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DQ. Happy tastes good. This message comes from TD. Getting mortgage advice should be fast and easy. Because when you want to buy a home, who has time to wait? TD Mortgage Direct makes it quick and easy to get the answers you need. Just answer a few questions and get personalized advice from a TD mortgage specialist. And you can get up to $4,100 with a new TD mortgage. I find this fascinating too, Carol, going through the research, all the famous names, but also the influential artists that you work with. You work with John Cassavetes. I mean, another larger-than-life character.

Staggering. And, oh, God, he was just so fantastic in every way. And Jenna, Roland's his wife and his three kids and yeah I worked with him on two plays two different plays and they were both so exciting

one John wrote called A Woman of Mystery and it was for Jenna and I played Jenna's, and it was for Jenna, and I played Jenna's daughter, and Jenna was a homeless person and didn't necessarily accept that I was her daughter. And so John wrote and directed that, and then we did a play called Thornhill that his friend Meade Roberts wrote. And that was with Ben Gazzara and Patty Lapone and just a great. Ben Gazzara, Gil.

Yeah. Another favorite of Gilbert's. Yeah, another favorite of mine. Another favorite of his. St. Jack was on the other day. That's a good one by Donovich. He, you know, that Benny, he was too much, right? You knew all these people.

It's amazing that you worked with, you know, and also so early in your career. Still in your 20s, you're working with John Cassavetes and Sidney Lumet. I don't think I was in my, I wasn't in my 20s when I worked with John. Oh, okay. Oh, I wasn't in my 20s when I worked with John. Oh, okay. Oh, I totally forgot.

The most incredible thing, well, they were all incredible that I got to do with John, was that he and Elaine May had written a play slash movie. I say slash because between the two of them, nobody could decide if it should be a movie or a play. But we worked on it for months and months. And Elaine and I played really bad hookers, failing hookers, in that we were so opinionated about who our Johns should be that we never had any work because we never would.

We just had too many opinions about them. That's funny. And John was in it. Oh, it was so great. And Peter Falk was going to direct it. And then he couldn't. Anyway, it's just a wild experience and a great, great, great experience.

And you once injured Bill Murray. Who said that to you? I saw it. That during Scrooge, you had a pull on his lip. Yes, but again, it was Shakespeare who made me do it. It wasn't me. Nice. I did, you know, and oh, you know, oh, and I worship him and he's so great.

But I did, I think, in the course of having to kick him in the groin from a flying position and splatter him with my wings, with my back to him in the kitchen, where I really couldn't see exactly where my wings were landing I didn't have a rear view mirror or anything and then the whole thing with the lip anyway I did hear rumors from Bill himself I think perhaps I had caused him some harm, which I certainly had not intended to do. I'm not one of those actors that likes to get physical, even if it's gonna, you know, but I don't know. I guess these were real stunt things. And some of them I could do and some of them I guess I couldn't. For instance, Lucky Bill. I did not actually hit him with the toaster.

Right. That did not make contact, I swear. The story's floating around on the web that Gilbert's referring to. Carol, you had to pull his lip down at a certain point and maybe you yanked a little too aggressively and he was injured. Is that on the web? Yeah, it's everywhere. And they say how to take a few days off. No. That's what was reported. That's Gilbert annotating. We'll check with Richard Donner.

Gilbert, you auditioned for that movie. Yes, yes. I lost to, what's his name? To Bobcat. Oh, no, David Johansson. Oh, David. You were going to be one of the Ghost of Christmas. Yeah, I think I was auditioning as the cab driver.

Yeah, that was the Buster, yeah. But David, I mean, yeah. auditioning as the cab driver yeah that was yeah yeah um but david i mean yeah and listen um but where does this thing on the web come from is it dick donner or bill i don't know it's floating around some various interviews or you know you find a 10 these these articles like 10 things you didn't know about the movie screenrooge. Oh, yes. Mental flaws. Are you saying, are you implying that if the world ever goes back to work, I will never go back to work again?

Yes, you've been blackballed for injuring Bill Murray in 1985 or whatever it was. Okay, one of Gilbert's favorites we have to work into the show and that is the late great sydney lumet yes yes that you worked with yeah sydney who is amazing okay well so i mean i guess this is probably floating around on the web and you know the thing with sydney is that he was also from the theater and so on on dog day afternoon we did something that i have never experienced before or after in making a movie in that sydney rented a hall above the second avenue delhi there was kind of a big hall there, you know, they had events and stuff there, but very old fashioned, you know, with the wood panels and they taped off that hall, the AD taped off that hall, like you do when you're rehearsing a play. When you're rehearsing a play, they tape off the stage or the rehearsal hall floor to indicate where the bed is and where the door is.

And there's nothing there, but it's taped to give you an idea of the space you're working in. So they did that. And we rehearsed that movie so that we could run it top to bottom like a play. Wow. And a couple hours we would run from the beginning of the show till the end of the show, i.e. movie. And this was so helpful because when you get to location, you know, you can never shoot in order. And we were that little body of people cramped into that bank, you know, you can never shoot in order. And we were that little body of people cramped into that bank, you know, for days.

And we had to really understand what the passage of time with no air and with the crowds and the FBI out there. And we had to really all know together of one mind what was happening to us and because he did rehearse it that way we we knew you know except except Gilbert I have to tell you something and I hope you won't feel I was cheating on you but the other laughing episode that nearly killed me in my life was on Dog Day Afternoon. Because somehow, whenever Al locked the cashiers and everybody into the vault, we started. Uncontrollable. Uncontrollable. And there were like six of us and it was uncontrollable and al is trying to do like a great job as a brilliant actor a bank robber a complicated person and there we just all are like and then finally penny allen who played the head teller, she was so great.

She's led into us. Thank God. And she said, you know, Al is trying to work here. He's trying to do his job. And that shut us up. And it worked. But for days, every time we got in the vault, we couldn't stop. What a movie. You worked also in that movie.

Aside from Pacino was an actor who I think he did only five movies. John Cazale. Yes. And each one was a great movie. I saw you in that documentary about his life, Carol. Yeah. John Cazale. My friend.

Real heartbreaker. Lost him so young. And I would have to say, and I would have to say because it's true, that he was a true genius, you know. And in a short career, Godfather,

Godfather 2, Dog Day Afternoon, The Conversation, and The Deer Hunter hunter great body of work incredible charles durning too we have to ask you about oh yeah because he's in there and you did i think four or five i did five movies with charlie uh the movie i did with mark rydell directing called uh harry and walter go to new york did not have a success, but it had in it Diane Keaton, Charlie,

Jimmy Conn, Elliot Gould. Anyway. Michael Caine. Michael Caine. I love that movie. I'll tell our listeners to find that movie. It's on Netflix. Harry and Walter go to New York. Yeah, so that was the first time

I think I worked with Charlie. And then Dog Day. And then we did two Stranger Calls movies together. And the Muppet movie. And the Muppet movie. And I think there was actually another one which I'm blanking on. But if it comes back to me, I'll let you know. What was he like?

I mean, you know, we love these character actors, Carol. We gush on this show about people like Charles Durning, right? Like Jack Ward and Gilbert. Or Martin Balsam. Martin Balsam. These great, solid American character actors. We just love them. They just show up on the set, and they're always great.

Always great. And he, Charlie, was what you call a mensch. Oh, and we did a play reading together not that long before he passed away. He was a mensch. He was, you may have heard or even seen, a beautiful, beautiful ballroom dancer and soft shoe dancer. He was great we heard that he was he had an amazing life he was a world war ii hero and and a ballroom dancer piano too yes and a price fighter yeah and great in drama in a part like dog day, or you could put him in a broad comedy like The Muppet Movie,

or you could put it in a relationship comedy like Tootsie. And he was just great every time. So good when Tootsie Omar. So heartbreaking. And also, I'll tell you, you asked about Betty Davis's career advice. Well, I'll tell you Charlie Groening's career advice, because he gave me some explicit advice. Well, I'll tell you Charlie Groening's career advice, because he gave me some explicit advice. And what it was, is I was very young when we were doing When a Stranger Calls, and I had had an abrupt success at a very young age working with the best of the best of them. And then I didn't know what to do as to how to pick a role

or say yes or no to a job. And, you know, if only I had known then what I know now. But anyway, I would torture myself. And I made some huge mistakes, by the way, overthinking and overthinking. You know, just couldn't do, I couldn't decide. So I said to Charlie one agonizing day on the set, I said, Charlie, you know, I just can't, I don't know how to decide. How do you decide, yes to and here's what charlie said he said i say yes to the first person that asks me and that how about that and here i am literally sick i mean throwing up anxious sick trying to make decisions i say yes to the first person's laugh.

You know a fun performance of his that people don't know about is to see him singing and dancing in the best little whorehouse in Texas. He could do it all. And he also was so brilliant on Broadway in the gin game. He just could do anything. Gilbert, did you ever meet Charles Durning? Did you ever come up against him? I remember one time at the Comedy Awards,

I did a bit about how they got Ned Beatty. Did he know about the rape scene in Deliverance before he accepted the job? And I said, that they at least one of the lines was did they at least ask John Sterling oh I just wanna and just hold it turns out Charles Durning was in the audience and I went going to. Oh, I just want to and just hold. It turns out Charles Durning was in the audience and I went over to him and he said, I would have taken a part. I can squeal. I can't believe I almost cut the punch line.

Fantastic. That's fantastic. What were you gonna say i was just curious because you said when you were so young and you started at a comedy club and it was where you put your name on the list and they call you up and i just was wondering if you ever ran into or worked at the same stage as andy kaufman uh i i remember seeing him at the clubs, and he'd go on, and I remember laughing when he went on stage and he starts singing 100 Bottles of Beer on the Wall.

And at first the audience laughs because they think, well, he's not going to sing the whole song, and then he proceeds to sing the entire song. Yes, I went to some college performance of his. I think it was at a college in a big, big old theater like some of the big old colleges have. And he was reading from. He used to read The Great Gatsby. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think it was The Great Gatsby or it was War and Peace or something. And he picked up the book and he began to read. And then he read that whole MF-er book. And people in the audience just little by little, they emptied out. The audience emptied out because, you know, they had not signed up for thinking that this comedian is going to read a piece of important literature for like six hours. You know, that's what he did. important literature for like six hours you know that's what he did and and well you i guess you met him or at least worked with him on taxi and you had you seen him in the clubs first carol or or or after you got to know him on taxi you went to check out the act i think that i

had not seen him i think that i once i got the part, then I investigated who he was. Did Jim Brooks seeing you in Hester Street somehow lead to you playing Simca? I always wondered that. I imagine it might have had something to do with it. Speaking the foreign language. Of course. I imagine it did, but I don't really remember him saying that, but I think it did because I didn't have to audition. And those were the days when movie actors did not do television. We all looked down our noses at television. And I was the same little stupid idiot that I was because such great writing,

right? But then I watched an episode of Taxi that Jack Guilford was, and I thought, well, all right, if Jack Guilford will say yes, then I'll say yes. And I did it with much disdain, but then came to understand that that was some of the most brilliant writing you can find anywhere. How about those writers? Ed Weinberger was here with us, by the way. He was? When was that? Oh, what did we have him, Gilbert? About two years ago? I guess so.

I lose track. And you thanked the writers. I think in one of your Emmy speeches, if not both of them, you thanked James Brooks, Ed Weinberger, Stan Daniels, Ken Esten. You gave them you could you you thanked james brooks ed weinberger stan daniels ken estin you you gave them their due because you were always so appreciative of that writing oh i yeah you know that it was everything i mean jimmy bros was brilliant brilliant director as were several of the other people that came on later in the game. But without the writing, you know, you're just a blithering idiot out there,

like flapping your lips or something, because that's everything. It's everything that you have to stand on is the writing. Yeah, Jim Burrow's here, too. Oh, how good. And you remember Gil? Yes. Joanne, Jim Burrow's here, too. Oh, how good. And you remember Gil? Yes. And did you witness any of Andy Kaufman's, like, hijinks, like, causing trouble on the set?

Well, I'd have to say a complete yes and a complete no to that. And this is why. Andy had created Foreign Man, who later became Latka. He had created him way before, and Foreign Man was a character that he performed in nightclubs and probably, I don't know, everywhere for a long time before Foreign Man was hired hired to be on taxi and turned into lockup so andy told them right up front that he had certain very strict stipulations for saying yes and one of them was that he would only do i, one more than half the shows or maybe just half the shows. And the other, and unbelievably important to Andy, was that he would only have to come in Monday for the table read, Friday morning for the finalizing the blocking and run through before we performed the show Friday night. So that leaves three whole days of a five-day week that Andy was nowhere to be seen. And you could call that hijinks because it was certainly very, very difficult for me because I come from this

stage, so it's the opposite for me. I like to rehearse, rehearse, rehearse, and Andy felt that knowing himself very well as an artist, if he would rehearse too much he would uh lessen the quality of his work so anyway then i think maybe the first time that andy and i had a really big episode together um and he still you know kept to his contract and wouldn't come in and um tony dance so he walks in on friday and tony danza was so angry on my behalf which nobody had a right to be real but he was so protective of me he got so angry that when andy walked onto the stage um in the bleach, he turned the fire hose on for real. I mean, a real powerful fire hose right at Andy, who was so shocked. And I think I venture to say pretty hurt, you know, and both sides were right. You know, that's why I say yes and no. You know, he considered hijinks that he wouldn't show up,

but it was also in his contract. And, of course, everybody knows the story of when Andy was hired to play Vic. And he came on the lot with two actual hookers and was smoking and drinking up a storm, and Andy was macrobiotic. Anyway, then he got himself fired. You know, watching those episodes, Carol, watching scenes keys from a marriage with you,

with the line that you, of course, you fondled, peel me like a grape so I can get out of here. But just the, the, the chemistry between you guys. Yeah. And particularly you and Judd in that scene, Mary Lou sends her love, by the way,

I happened to speak with her yesterday. I told her, I will tell her, I told her you were coming on with us. And that reminds me, I was just talking again with Jeffrey Tambor. And he sends his love. As does Peter Riegert, who emailed me this week.

Oh, my God. It's a love fest. Oh, and something Frank and I were watching, and it cracked us both up and was amazing. You were on The Letterman Show. Yeah. Oh, this is her singing backup. This was, did I replace Carole King? You did.

Yes. And like Will Smith was in it. Dion. Dion, yeah. And there was I, knowing nothing. But, you know, I had just done a movie with Paul Schaefer called The Lemon Sisters, and there was a lot of music in the movie. And Paul and his band taught us all the music.

And Paul was the musical director. So, and I, at that time, used to do Letterman. I was so lucky to do it, you know, not infrequently. And then I think Paul came up with the idea that when Carol King dropped out, I should stand in for her. It was a great joke. An amazing group of people. Again, so lucky, you know.

I don't know how I get so lucky. Here's a question that I have for you, Carol. We told you we have a couple of questions from listeners who do this thing called Grill the Guest. Now here's a memory for you. Mark Harriman says, does Carol remember being in a cult classic called Pandemonium?

Of course I do. With the great Phil Hartman, Pee Wee Herman, Paul Rubens, the wonderful Eileen Brennan. And Tommy Smothers. Eileen Brennan, Tommy Smothers. And Squeaky, David L. Lander. David. And Tab.

And Judge Reinholtz. And Tab Hunter. And Tab Hunter. Right. Who we would love to have had on this show, huh, Gil? Oh, my. So many of those names that we go oh god why didn't we have him on well we keep trying we finally got carol yes so nice of you well you know i didn't

mean not to do it before it's just that i had a little and it doesn't happen a lot in my career. I had a little busy streak, thanks to... I did, you know, and it was all thanks to Tina Fey. And then from that, somehow Hunters came along, even though it was completely the opposite type of work. It's a drama, as you know. And I auditioned for that, but I didn't audition for Tina. But anyway, so those two things kind of backed up to each other. And it was during the course of that that I, I think you had asked me, but I literally

couldn't do it at that point. But now that we are all unemployed. You know, Carol, I loved your auditioning story. I heard you tell this story on another show about how disturbed you were by the experience of auditioning for WIC. Was it WIC? No, WIC. I got WIC. Not WIC. It was something you were auditioning for. You didn't get it. Pippin, excuse me. It was Pippin, and then it was one of those great stories for actors of how a door closed, but other doors suddenly flew open.

Well, they didn't fly open, actually. Oh, no? I mean, if you want to, do you want to hear the real story? Yeah, it was touching. Okay, so I had been doing Wicked already for like close to four and a half years, and it was touching. Okay, so I had been doing Wicked already for like close to four and a half years.

And it was in my last nine months of Wicked, which was the 10th anniversary, that they started to put together the new version of Pippin. And I, you know, came over like between a matinee and an evening and I had been told that all I had to do was prove that I wouldn't be frightened to do the trapeze work and it was a miscommunication. But anyway, so I went in, I did the trapeze and I actually really loved it and then I went away and then I was told that I had to sing and do scenes and do

all that um and meanwhile I had to you know prepare while I was doing the other show and anyway it took me too long and the genius Andrea Martin got the part as well she should have because she was just spectacular right so um anyway then um I was auditioning on and off or they kept saying your audition's in two months it's in three months it's in six months anyway it just got to be it went on for a long time which wore on my nerves because each time of course I got more and more insecure you know that I after all this time I wouldn't deliver and I kept working with a singing coach and anyway when I finally got to audition, I thought it went okay. And I think that was a twofold thing. I think it was because the wonderful Steve Freeman, who was teaching me how to sing, made me feel so proud of my singing that I actually thought it was all right, which apparently it was not.

And also because they stood up and applauded at my audition. So you would think it went well? Anyone would. So I thought it had gone quite well. I went home and I got that call that we as actors have gotten so many times in our lives. And when you've been doing it for 52 years or something, this call, this call gets to me worse, which is, you know, they went another way or they just didn't feel that you were exactly right or they whatever they say it's a version of yeah you

fucked up and you didn't get it i don't know are we allowed to swear on this yes so much more if i had known that but i was trying to be judiciously we encourage you to swear, Tara. All right. Well, anyway, that's what it really means is that you weren't good enough. That's what it means in your being. And I just

felt like, okay, I can't do this anymore. I cannot afford to audition anymore because I was literally, and you're going to think I'm out of my mind, but I was just like crawling around my apartment sobbing. And I thought it's too late for this in my life, you know. And so I vowed that I would never audition again, not because I thought that I was too good to audition, but because I didn't think I could survive it.

And then I right away got two jobs that I didn't audition for. And one was Gotham. The other was Kimmy. But I think it was a good, solid year between Wicked and those other jobs. Okay. So they didn't fly open but they did open are are you someone when you watch yourself if you do watch yourself do you are you sitting there going oh god why did i do it oh uh course. I want to set the record straight about something before we start again.

You can all just go fuck yourselves if you think I'm going to say fuck again. You know what made that even better, Carol? As you said that, the little dog with the cute face, your dog, was in the frame. My show. It was such a nice contrast between the sweetness of the dog. Gilbert, you were asking me about when I see things, am I horrified? Why didn't I do something else or yeah and even recently I uh screened a movie that I'm in that I did right before the shutdown and you know I see

a scene and I think I know exactly the right choice now I know I know that this is a horrible choice I know the right choice this is six months later I know that this is a horrible choice. I know the right choice. This is six months later, you know, but yeah. You must be a perfectionist, Carol. Yeah, I am a perfectionist, but I've calmed down since I was young because I realized that sometimes when you're a real true perfectionist, it comes out of other people's hides. It's hard on other people. And the older I get, the more I realize that it is the experience, the day-to-day experience when you're collaborating with people.

It's just the day-to-day experience that matters because no one, you can't control the outcome of anything, but you can control how you treat other people. Gilbert doesn't like auditioning either. So I think you're, you're, you're both in the same. I got better at it years later,

but I, yeah, I got better years later. I remember the first couple of years of auditions i would go like what am i in this business for i have no talent i know it's torture i think it's torture and and also not only is it torture but it is truly not representative of your work it's an audition and that's a whole other animal than you know working to to understand something and deepening it and it's a whole other animal and i heard i've always heard this these actors who are great at auditioning and I'll get the part,

but then their acting won't improve any more than the audition. Yeah, I've heard that. It's interesting too, though, Carol, at a point where you said, that's it. You kind of made a life decision. I'm not going to do this anymore. I'm not going to subject myself to this anymore. But also the two parts showed up that you didn't have to audition for. The two parts which were... There's something about that. And that took me for another four and a half years.

And then sadly when Kimmy was canceled, well, I meant we were so sad when it was canceled but then uh i read this gorgeous material called hunters and and i was told that everyone had to audition and i i was crying my manager called me and told me i had to audition i was crying but i decided it was worth it and i i actually got it which I don't know how that happened but it did Gilbert's hooked on that show Gilbert and Dara they love the children and Max yes yes and and both our kids who are 10 and 12 are fans of yours that is so sweet how nice Gilbert my cats are fans of yours. Thank you. That is so sweet. How nice.

Gilbert, my cats are fans of yours. They're about the only fans I have. We love Saul Rubinette, too. Another great character actor who you plug into anything. And that show has a lot of great, also Dylan Baker. Is he frightening in that? Oh my God, scariest villain. Dylan Baker played arguably the bravest role in the history of motion pictures in that movie, Happiness.

Yes. You know, that's the type of thing you have to think seriously. Will I work again if I do this? Because it's so despicable. And it's the funny part about it, the performance he gives, it's like he's somehow sympathetic at the same time. He's a child molester, and yet there's a humanity. Dylan Baker. Oh, such range.

I have to ask you about some of these other wonderful directors, Carol, that we didn't mention. Milos Forman, Mark Rydell, Gus Van Sant, Rob Reiner, Ken Russell, the great Herbert Ross. My blue heaven. And Ishtar, a movie that and Ishtar a movie that Gilbert and I like and Paul Williams has been here

and we are big Elaine May fans and I want to defend Ishtar again I think it's wonderful I don't know why they I don't know maybe it was that thing about like Heaven's Gate where they think you've spent so much money that I don't know. Maybe it was that thing about like Heaven's Gate where they they think you've spent so much money that I don't know.

I don't. I think the press was out to get I don't think it was personally against Elaine. I think the press was out to get Beatty and Hoffman for some reason at that time. That seemed who they were grinding the axe against. So good. It's got so much going for it. against but so good it's got so much going for it hoffman is uh one of two actors you've worked with at gets the reputation him and pacino get the reputation of being difficult uh so i i want to know if you experienced any of that absolutely not absolutely not and you know, I just worked with Al and Al, as I am, is creeping up in age. And if he ever had a right to be difficult, now it'd be. Not at all. He's an ensemble player. An ensemble player. I was thinking the other day, as we're not seeing Jack Nicholson on the screen anymore,

and so many of these actors have started to, Gene Hackman is another one who stepped aside, that somebody like Pacino is still out there grinding and doing these great performances one after the other. And I was turning to my wife and I said, we have to be grateful for this guy. Oh, yes. De Niro, too. I was going to my wife and I said, we have to be grateful for this guy. Oh, yes. De Niro, too.

I was going to say, and Robert, you know, and by the way, that's my bucket list, is to get to work with Robert and Marty. I'm throwing it out there. Gilbert, you have it over Carol, because you got to work with De Niro. I hate you. Was he doing a comedy? he hates you no no nobody nobody

saw the film it does still count i don't think the cameraman saw the film uh it was uh uh robert de niro he was in a movie called The Comedian. Oh, I saw The Comedian. I really liked it. And Danny was in it, and Lucy DeVito was in it. Yeah, I liked it. And I was in it as Gilbert Gottfried. Right, I'm sorry, Gilbert. You stole the show. My most difficult role.

Yes, you did get to work with him. Well, Scorsese says we got... Put a good word in for me, Gilbert. Gilbert, don't we have it on good authority from Griffin Dunn and Ileana and Rosanna Arquette and other friends of Scorsese's that you're his favorite comedian? Yeah, I'm his favorite comedian. Martin Scorsese's favorite comedian.

And quick, name any film, any Scorsese film I've been in. Weren't you in Kundoon? Well, maybe, yeah. Maybe they just wasn't the rule for you this is a nice story too how about living your the rest of your life knowing that you are martin scorsese's favorite comedian that that i think you might as well just hang up the headsets. I'd rather be in this film and have them think I suck. Gilbert, he's still cranking them out. You get your chance. Carol, this is a sweet story, one actor to another.

When you didn't, you were nominated for Hester Street, which we talked about in the intro. But you didn't win. I believe Louise Fletcher won for Cuckoo's Nest as Nurse Ratched. But you got a phone call from somebody, a nice phone call and a lunch invitation. And that's a nice story. And it's a side of the man that I don't think we hear a lot of. Well, okay, the man we're talking about is jack nicholson and i have many stories

equally kind uh about jack but the story you're talking about is i was 23 when i got nominated and jack had been nominated and won or lost, you know, over the years. And he knew what that whole process, awards season, what that whole thing feels like. I had no clue. I mean, I was shocked that I got nominated. It was a beautiful movie, but it cost $375,000, you know, black and white and everything. thousand or three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars you know black and white and everything so I I did go out there um and I stayed at the Beverly Hills Hotel and did press and you I mean you are like a queen when you're people can't do enough for you there you have to get a

second room just to put your flowers in I mean mean, I'm exaggerating, but, you know, the phone never stops ringing. Never. So then comes the day or the night, that is, of the awards, and I didn't win. And, again, the phone story, like I wake up in the morning and have to test whether there's a dial tone. You could hear a pin drop. It feels like all my flowers have wilted. I mean, that's how bad it is.

It's so quiet, right? The phone rings once at about 11 in the morning. And it's Jack who did win the night before. And he calls me Whitey. He named me that during Cornell Knowledge. And he said, you know, Whitey, Angelica and I are going to have lunch at El Cholo's. Want to come with? I'll come by and pick you up.

So he did. He came by. He drove to the hotel, picked me up. We went downtown, just the three of us, had the loveliest, sweetest time. And it was so unbelievably empathetic and kind of him because he knew what that next morning was like. He knew what it was like. He remembered and he wanted to soften the blow for me. Isn't that nice, Gilbert? Yeah, it's kind of funny.

It seems like when when someone's nominated nominated, they are really important. And then quickly you become not someone who didn't win, but a loser. That's right. You can bypass the didn't win and go straight to loser. And they're in such a hurry to talk to the winner that they trample over you. Trample over you.

And you can't get your car, you know, in the ceremony. Like, you're out there till three in the morning waiting for your car. No, I'm kidding. But there's a big difference. I think it's always kind of sweet when someone takes the stage, when a winner finally takes the stage to make their speech, and they thank or at least acknowledge the other nominees in their category. I agree. So nice. There's something nice about it because they're being inclusive about it. It's not like, okay, you'll never hear those names again. People have said they think you did an exceptional job if you get nominated.

But then between, you know, the five or six people's exceptional jobs, you know, it's slightly hit or miss as to who got the most votes or didn't quite get the most votes. So I think it's fair to acknowledge your fellow artists because also just think of the many brilliant performances every year that don't get seen and don't get nominated because they didn't have a big studio behind them and they didn't have the money to spend on press. And, you know, you see incredible performances every year that get no acknowledgement at all. I remember Dustin Hoffman when he won the Academy Award. I said, I refuse to accept that I'm a better actor than and he named all the other people.

Right. That is perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nicely done. Another sweet story, too. And, you know, this is obviously we know this is this could you know, it can be an unkind business at times. But you were 17 when you went off to shoot Carnal Knowledge. And Mike Nichols was another person at a kind of a key moment in your life that that said something very kind to you, said something that you never forgot. Yes. And this what he said to me was a part of his genius. I was such a nervous wreck, you know, and they had been shooting already in Vancouver, so a kind of a family had formed between Mike and Candy and Jack and Artie and Jules Pfeiffer

and the crew and Anthea Silbert, Dick Silbert. And then I come in from nowhere and known by nobody. And then I have to just walk on a set the next day with all these powerhouse artists. And, you know, I just was so nervous. And I said, Mike, I'm just so worried. I'm so nervous. And he said, why is that? And I said, well, I'm just, you know, afraid that I won't be able to do what you need or be who you need me to be or whatever. And he said, you are absolutely perfect for this part. You can do no wrong.

You are absolutely perfect. And I believed him. And he meant it, by the way. And because he meant it, that was what happened. He made actors better by believing in them to that degree, that they were brave for him. They wanted to be brave for him because he was so loving and also such a great artist at the same time. What a great attribute for a director to make actors feel so wanted. I think that it is. If there is a magic trick with directors, I mean, it's not a magic trick.

It was more than more than more than genuine. But if anybody asks me what makes the difference between a good director and a great director, that might be one of my answers. It's a director who believes in you. Of the list of directors I was raving about here, too, I don't want to leave off our friend Richard Donner, who did the show, but also Joan Micklin-Silver. Gilbert and I are big fans of Crossing the Lancy. Yes. Yes. Wonderful. Somebody else who you clicked with early in your career.

Yes. And then Amy Irving, of course. Sylvia Miles. The late, great Sylvia. We just lost. We have to ask you about something that's important to you. I was just going to say, Crossing Delancey Street is one of those romantic comedies that's not like a goofy.

Romantic comedies are usually like goofy. And they're exaggerated. Or they're formulaic. Or they're formulaic. Or they're formulaic. Yeah, but Joan, she's such a good writer. That doesn't happen when she puts pen to paper. She made a great short, Bernice Bobs Her Hair,

with Shelley DeVolops. Our listeners should find that too. And Bud Cort. And Bud Cort. Absolutely. Seek that one out. And I'm also going to recommend a movie called My First Mister with you and Albert Brooks, directed by Christine Lottie. Oh, thank you. Also, which are listeners.

But we have to ask you something, Carol, that I found in my research that is near and dear to Gilbert. And that is interesting about the character that you play on Kimmy. And she's a character who fights against gentrification. She's somebody who loves New York City. And that is near and dear to you personally. She's sort of like a Jane Jacobs kind of a, but that's important to Gilbert and to me. And it's something we talk about,

the loss of neighborhoods, the loss of old New York, the loss of movie theaters, the loss of bookstores. So much of the city losing its identity just you know you you you you go down a subway uh upper west side you come out in soho and it's you're in the same place you see the same stores you see the same you know know, pharmacies and banks. And you're just in the same place. Used to be when you got on the train, you'd hop out in a different world, you know, different. They used to be these junk stores that didn't, you know, they had a little bit of clothes, a little bit of razor blades.

You mean odds and ends stores or like yes yeah and and i could walk around those for the day yes well there were book and record stores that you could lose a day in yes just go in and look through soundtrack albums or just look just just just go into it you know use bookstores or yeah so much of it. And, you know, we've lost Roseland and we've lost the Ziegfeld and I could go on and on. And, you know, I assume that going to the movies back, because you're such a movie buff like us, that going to the movies and having that experience, you mentioned Young Frankenstein. That's something that I saw in the movies with my dad.

And that experience, especially now with them being threatened by what's going on. But I hate to think that we're going to lose so much of that. And also, all the little art houses, you know, are just, either have died

or are seriously ill, you know. Almost all of them. Oh, we lost the Lincoln Plaza cinemas recently and the failure. I remember with

movies, I'm talking like it was 5,000 years ago and it feels like it, that moment you're sitting in the chair waiting and you sense that the lights in the theater have just gone like a shade darker and you

go, oh, the movie's going to start now. Yeah, so exciting and they dude i don't think there used to be like 45 minutes of trailers before the movie no you finish your popcorn and you haven't started the movie yeah i've mentioned it on the show it's kind of a downer carol but i was in la for a number of years and i moved back to new york in 2003 and i think i've i think i've seen about 20 theaters shutter and that and since i since i got back and that's only 17 years i wonder what happened now because of it i don't know it breaks one of the things that might be lost i don't know let's hope not let's okay because that gilbert scorsese picture needs

to be seen with an audience so the kimmy schmidt movie uh kimmy schmidt versus the reverend i guess is what it's being called uh premieres uh on netflix on may 12. So when you hear this, it will already be streaming. And it's so much fun to make because it is an interactive movie, which I had never heard of or seen. But you get to choose, each audience member gets to choose between three endings in each scene. Oh, it's like Clue, Gilbert. And like Mr. Sardonicus.

Mr. Sardonicus, yeah. I don't know. And then so you get an entirely different story. You can get all four of our stories all different ways. So you can watch this thing a million times and never have it be the same twice. I love that. It's so much fun.

That's a great gimmick. Carol, this was a lot of fun. Oh, thank you. When I say the goodnight, I'll need you for two quick things. You want her to say the F word again, Gil? Okay, I want that on the show.

The last thing I wanted on the show is can you be an honor if you Carol Kane would say Gilbert, go fuck yourself. Right. That's what I'm going to say.

Gilbert, go F yourself. No, you have to say fuck. right here's what I'm gonna say Gilbert go F yourself no you have to say three times in one show plus you know Gilbert I don't know if you noticed but there are young people here with you okay

Gilbert go fuck yourself thank you Carol that is an honor glass up the joint, will you? Go fuck yourself. Thank you, Carol. That is an honor. That's an exchange for you putting in a good word with Marty and Bob. Gilbert, can you do that for her?

Yes. Oh, because me and Bobby. So, anyway, this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host, Frank Santopadre. And we have had the wonderful Carol Kane. And Johnny. What's the dog's name, Carol?

Johnny. We can see Johnny waving. Carol, you've had the kind of career where we could go on for six hours. Thank you all for being so kind and fun. And I'm sorry for my swearing. It was one of the best parts. You know, it's from the last details from hanging out with sailors. Oh, that's right.

Last question. Did you work with Richard Kind and Larry Storch in Sly Fox I did there you go how about that Gil and I and Arthur Penn directed it Arthur Penn another great director I heard with the last detail just to have it ready for TV afterwards the old cursing when they curse they turn their head from the camera to make it easier to put in clean words that's true but I'm glad you just just okay I mean I'm not an authority but I can't imagine how saying to any of them, turn your head away from the camera so we can loop it without swear words. That's just not him. That is not him. Watch the movie again, Gilbert.

You can see Hal Ashby at the bar. Yes. Oh. I noticed it last night. So can we have an ID where you say, I'm Carol Kane and you're listening to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. But do it any way you want it, Carol. Yeah.

I'm Carol Kane, and you are listening to Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. And can you say Amazing colossal show also? Just amazing colossal show. Amazing colossal show. Good. We'll sew that together. Carol, you're so kind and so generous to give us all this time. Oh, it's been really fun.

We loved going down memory lane with you. Thank you. It's been really fun. Thank you both for being so kind. And Dara, thank you. And the kids and uh and thanks to your man thanks to your manager again donald okay i'll tell them and thank you to john murray as always thanks for saving me even though i didn't have no headphones or nothing Bye bye Carol