Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast - Chris Lemmon and Charlie Matthau Encore

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

GGACP celebrates dads everywhere with this ENCORE of a special Father's Day show featuring actor-musician Chris Lemmon and producer-director Charlie Matthau. In this episode, Chris and Charlie look back at the lives and careers of one of cinema's legendary comedy teams, Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau. Also: Jerry Lewis turns down "Some Like it Hot," Red Skelton passes on "The Sunshine Boys," Walter "compliments" Christopher Walken and Jack runs afoul of Virna Lisi's husband. PLUS: "The Fortune Cookie"! The Ukrainian Cary Grant! The music of Neal Hefti! The complexities of Blake Edwards! Walter rescues "The Odd Couple"! And Ving Rhames pays Jack an unforgettable tribute! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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a million delicious instant prizes and a grand prize of 25 000 play at games.circlek.com or at participating circle k stores what's wrong asker something wrong with this system that's what's wrong i don't think that two single men living alone in a big eight-room apartment should have a cleaner house than my mother Hi, this is Gilbert Gottfried, and this is Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast. I'm here with my co-host, Frank Santopadre, and we're excited to have two guests in this year's special Father's Day show. Chris Lemon is an actor, writer, and classically trained musician. He's appeared in dozens of films and TV shows, including Midnight Caller, Knotts Landing, and the hit Fox series duet, as well as the movies Seems Like Old Times, Cannonball Run 2, Weekend Warriors, Swing Ship, Just

the Ticket, and three movies which he shared the screen with his famous father father Jack Lemmon, A Twist of Lemmon. Charlie Mathow is an occasional actor as well as producer and director who has appeared with his legendary father, Walter Matthau, in films like Charlie Barrett, The Bad News Bears, and House Calls. He's served as an associate producer on movies like Buddy Buddy, First Monday in October, and I Oughta Be in Pictures. He's also produced and directed the features Freaky Deaky, The Book of Leah, and Doing Time on Planet Earth, as well as three films featuring his dad,

Mrs. Lampert Remembers Love, The Marriage Fool, and The Grass Harp. Between these two gentlemen, they've worked with a who's who of 20th century talents, including Blake Edwards, Charles Sterning, Christopher Plummer, Julie Andrews, Carol Burnett, Piper Laurie, Don Siegel, Roddy McDowell, John Boyd, Alan Burstyn, Martin Landau, and Lloyd Bridges, just to name a few. Now, Frank and I are thrilled to welcome to the show two talented artists and the sons of two of the most beloved performers to ever grace the silver screen, Chris Lemon and Charlie Matthau. Gilbert, do you need a rest after that? Jesus Christ, that's one hell of an intro.

My goodness. Welcome, gentlemen. Hiya of an intro. My goodness. Welcome, gentlemen. Hiya, Frank. Hello, Charlie. Now, something just hit me in the introduction. I want to ask you, Charlie. Mrs. Lampert remembers love. You have any problem hearing me?

I can hear you. I just have trouble remembering. Yes. Mrs. Lampert remembers love. And I seem to remember that Audrey Hepburn's name in Charade was Mrs. Lampert. Wow, Gilbert. Wow. charade was Mrs. Lampert. Wow, Gilbert. Wow. I remember your father hiding behind a pillar,

holding a gun on Audrey Hepburn and Cary Grant, saying, Mrs. Lampert, they left me alone to die. I was in a Jamin prison. Five bullets in my stomach and legs. They knew I was alive. That's why I had to kill all four of them. Oh, man, that's a good one. Gilbert, the impression's so good, I hate to break your heart and say that that character was Lampert with a P, and Charlie's movie is Lambert with a B. Oh, okay.

But it was close. But nonetheless impressive. That was one great story. Seriously, Gilbert, I think you need, you've got to lay down for a second. Because this is, what an amazing opening. Listen, it was an excuse to do as Walter. Yeah, Walter's Matthau, that's right.

We're going to have dueling Matthaus on this show. Charlie, we've got to figure out, Gilbert said when we were talking on the phone, and by the way, welcome to both of you. We're thrilled that this is finally happening. We're thrilled to be here. Yeah, lovely to be here. And Gilbert said, I think I auditioned for Charlie, but I can't remember on what. I don't remember.

It was a movie of some kind thousands of years ago. We talking about the 80s, Gil? Before that, yeah. I think 70s. No, no, the 80s. It would have to be the 80s. He was a kid in the 70s. Yeah.

Charlie's not that old. Yeah. He's not, because I'm older than him. Anyway, now... And I'm not that old. The two of you, unlike Martin and Lewis, your fathers actually were friends of each other. Very close friends.

And because I remember... And thinking of Jerry Lewis, this is how I, these synapses in my head. This to you, Chris. Jerry Lewis was originally asked to be in Some Like It Hot. And he. That is, yes. Yes. And tell us the story.

Well, it's basically Jerry was a much bigger star than my father at the time. But there was just something about Pop and the way he clicked with Daphne that really turned Billy on. So it really boiled down to Marilyn getting the role. They had no idea they were going to get a star of that stature. And when she said yes, it was, Pop was in. But Jerry wasn't nuts about the idea of doing this. As a matter of fact, he was quoted as saying, drag isn't funny. And then my father, after that, said,

Jesus Christ, you know, every time at Christmas, I send Jerry a box of chocolates. I love that. And I heard there was a card that he'd send Jerry Lewis to that would, same message every year. You know, I did that whole gimmick much funnier in the show. So, you know, I just have to say, you know, there's no audience feedback here.

You know, the lighting is lousy. But no, what he said, he sent a card. I heard he sent a card with the chocolates to Jerry saying, thank you for being a schmuck. Oh, that's no, that's Billy. Every time Billy would see Jerry on the streets, he'd say, oh, hello, schmuck. It was a whole different era back then, I'll tell you. Gil, I was wondering if you found that anecdote. The Jerry Lewis.

Can't put a Jerry Lewis anecdote past you, Gil. Tell us, gentlemen, there are conflicting reports about how these two friends actually met. Charlie, there's different versions of this, depending on who you ask. Well, they met in Billy's office, yeah. Was that it? I've heard different versions too i heard they went to a jewish deli and jack ordered uh right oh that's beautiful yes that's that's the story. That's the story because mine is boring compared to that. You have a fried shrimp and a chocolate frap, as Walter would say. But Chris, there's the great story that you told on The Odd Couple DVD commentary about when they finally got to work together

on the fortune cookie and Walter was laid up. Walter had had the heart attack and he asked, he was from his bed. He asked Jack to do him a solid. Yeah, yeah. No, actually, hold on. Tell me about that. I don't know that one.

When he gave him the bag. The bag? When he gave him the bag. The bag? When he gave him the paper bag. Oh, yeah, yeah. No, this story I was about to tell is much funnier than that. Oh, okay. Let's go with that one. No, it's, you know, Walter on Fortune Cookie.

The first one was, what the hell was it? Was it Fortune Cookie? Yes, it was Fortune Cookie. Yeah, first one. But on the one you just mentioned, the one where they played the two buddies and the cop and stuff like that, Billy Wilder's film. Oh, for God's sake, I've forgotten it. Buddy, Buddy? Yeah, buddy, buddy. Walter was supposed to do a stunt, they both were, where he came down a laundry chute and landed on a platform. And when they, you know, when they actually did the shot,

Walter hit that platform so hard that he rolled off of it and fell about a good seven to eight feet down to the ground and was knocked unconscious. And my father, you know, was beside himself and ran over to him and ripped off his jacket and gently put her under his head. And Waltz's eyes started to flutter open. He asked, Waltz, Waltz, Waltz. Hold on. Huh?

No, I know. But it's, you know, it's got to be the right timing. My wife is now criticizing me for the other way. Jesus Christ. Chris's wife is offering tips. Okay, here we go. That part's going to get cut out. So Walt hits the thing and falls off a good seven or eight feet

and is knocked unconscious. And my father rips off his jacket, gently slides it under his head and says, Waltz, Waltz, are you comfortable? Waltz looks up at him and says, I make a living. Charlie, you were there. You were associate producer on Buddy Buddy. Yeah, I was in charge of the slide that's why i'm one of the i must be in the minority because i i know buddy buddy is maligned but i like it i like it too i haven't seen in a long time but i thought it was funny yeah when whenever i watch uh anything with on talk shows with uh Matthau and Jack Lemmon, it kind of reminds me of how Jack Benny was with George Burns.

Like anything Burns would say, Benny would be doubled over. And it seemed like that when Jack Lemmon would listen to anything Walterter said well they they truly were the best of friends and i know charlie will back me up on that one and uh it basically uh it was just that they were both so opposite each other that any movement or or comment or anything like that would instantly break the other one up. And I mean, just losing it, you know, rolling about in laughter. And, you know, it was, they were such odd couples to begin with, you know, my father going to aish deli and having fried chimps and a chocolate frat and and you know and waltz is is like straight out of odd couple you know and that wonderful scene that they do in the deli where he's just kind of looking around with the you know with his music jesus christ could you

shut up felix for god's sakes um and it was you know it was wonderful to be around them because uh you know this this whole duality was oh shit there goes my i love when you do your impression of walter chris because you can't help but have a little of your dad poke through your voice too so it's like getting math out and lemon together in stereo well there's so just the point you know i mean my father it's yeah jesus jesus christ would you would you please put yourself together? Because people. And then Walter would look at him and say, would you shut the hell up, Lemon? For God's sakes, you're making a fool out of yourself. You know, I mean, just that whole kind of juxtaposition is magical.

It's the stuff of magic, you know. They had a, I heard you say on the soundtrack, on the audio commentary, that they had a certain Mutt & Jeff quality like other great comedy teams. Oh, yeah. I, you know, comedy teaming. Charlie, you should talk about this. Comedy teaming is... I'm in.

Wait a minute. What's the single best thing about my career? Timing! That doesn't work with one person, so don't try it at home. It can be very dangerous. Charlie, tell them, you know, the whole thing that made them so special as a comedy team. And you saw it with all the great ones, you know. Tell them about Pop and Walt and the way they... Well, you hit the nail on the head. They're opposites, right? Yeah.

Watching The Odd Couple again, and you see that Jack is manic and animated and full of angst, not just as Felix, but in a lot of his comedic performances. And Walter is laid back and laconic. And so there's a, there's really a great contrast in their, in their styles and their acting styles and their deliveries. Walter, I think that has something that has to have something. Walter did an incredible, uh, uh, it's one of the funniest 10 minutes i i think i've ever seen uh interview where he came in on pop it was with the english fella i forgot his name oh yeah parkinson yes

and uh michael waltz they introduced waltz after my father rambled on for 20 minutes because we lemons tend to do that and uh uh and waltz came out if you haven't seen it, do yourself a favor and watch that 10 minutes. But during that, he told a story. What the hell was the question? I forgot. I'm getting older.

What was the thing? What was it? It was just a general. The odd couple. He said, Lemon had the heart of heart because he would say anything and then I would simply say one word and get the

laugh so Lemon had the tough part to play you see he really had to work I wouldn't play that part if my life depended on it um so but yeah yeah it's they uh they wanted to mix it up at one point and go and do stage and play each other's parts. But that sadly never happened. I would love to have seen that. And didn't he didn't Walter ask to be Felix? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. They were they wanted to switch it up and Pop would play Oscar. What did what did what did neil simon tell uh tell your dad charlie you see that now um oh i'm sorry charlie go ahead no that's okay well could you see that

if they did switch parts you know and my father my father comes in and turns to me and says i wake up in the morning and there's little notes on my pillow saying we're out of cornflakes. F you. It took me three hours to figure out that F you meant Felix Hunger. That's it? That's the reaction? This is a tough room, Gina. I might pull.

I might pull out of here. No, I'm getting very close. And I always wondered what Matt Allen Lemon thought of Jack Klugman and Tony Randall. Oh, they loved him. I know Pop did. I can't speak for Waltz. Charlie, did he like those two? Oh, he loved Jack. As a matter of fact, on Broadway, Jack was his understudy when he played with Art Carney. Broadway, Jack, was his understudy when he played with Art Carney. And what Gilbert was talking about, or Frank, when Doc Simon sent the script, the first two acts of The Odd Couple, to my father,

he called Neil back and he said, I want to play Felix because Oscar's too easy. And Neil said, well, do me a favor, Walter, and act on your own time. Great. Great line. I love I love that. I love that. And I and speaking of acting and sort of a snappy comeback, Chris, I love the story of your dad working for Cukor in the first movie and him saying, give me a little less, give me a little less. Yeah, Cukor kept saying, Jack, would you give me a little bit and they do the take and then,

less, less, Jackie, darling, a little bit less. And my father finally turns and says, George, if I give you any less, I won't be acting. Cukor looks back at him and says, George, if I give you any less, I won't be acting. Cukor looks back at him and says, exactly. I love that. Yeah, it's lovely. It's a great story.

Tell us how you guys, this is in the commentary, too, on The Odd Couple, and I thought I knew everything about The Odd Couple and everything about these two great actors, but found so much in that director's commentary. Chris, you tell a great story of being on the school playground and kind of gradually finding out who Jack Lemmon is. Well, I think that, and Charlie knows this, any star's kid that had a son or daughter of a star that had that stature that Pop and Waltz had, knows this.

It's this sudden realization that it's different, you know. And for me, that happened in, I think it was like fifth grade or something. I was attempting a pull-up and this kid comes running up to me and says, my father's a bigger star. Or no, see that kid over there? His father's a bigger star. Or no, see that kid over there? His father's a bigger star than your father because he's Jim West's son from Wild, Wild West. I look at the kid and I say, well, yeah, he is. He's, you know, he's Jim West from the Wild, Wild West.

And the kid, you know, snorts and walks away. And, you know, and I remember thinking to myself, I didn't know my father was a star. I thought he was just an actor. And when it came up to you, you should have said to him, don't be silly. Your father is my father. But it's a very, you know, it's kind of a bittersweet story because, yeah, it's funny. And it's so honest in the way that kids are. But it's a sudden realization that I think, you know, Charlie, tell me if you've had it, where all of a sudden you go, holy shit, my father's a superstar. holy shit, my father's a superstar. And the one thing, you know, that kids want at that age is identification,

is a sense of that's who I am. So when it happens, you suddenly go, I'm not Chris Lemon, I'm Jack Lemon's son. And it's kind of a wild and disturbing realization at that age, at that tender age. Have I explained myself enough, Charlie? Yeah, I think we're good on that. Yeah, no, I've heard that from, you hear that from a lot of, you know, sons and daughters of actors, like that, in a way, they're proud of their parents, but then they're like, well, what about me? I don't exist. That's it. And it can have a lot of interesting ramifications. You know, I adored my father. Charlie adored his father. We were both lucky to have wonderful relationships with our parents. And they knew what was on too.

And, you know, without saying, okay, here's the situation. And here's what I'm going to do. They had other ways of incorporating us into their lives and shielding us from that. Excuse me, excuse me, I need to get to Jack Lemon. Could you move out of the way? And for me, he took me up fishing once a year and we were divorced. My mother and father were divorced. And so it was that adds a whole other layer to it as well. And slowly but surely, we'd grown apart and slowly but surely we came back together through those incredible fishing trips and later on playing golf every year at Pebble Beach. And we ended up becoming the very best of friends at the end of all of that. It was an incredible journey. And then,

of course, just like Walter, Pop passed away at a very early age and he was gone. Walter, Pop passed away at a very early age and he was gone. So after a lifetime of discovery and intimacy, when things finally got to where it was just perfect, passed away. So it's a wild story. I'm sorry to get all morose on this show. No, not at all. It should be funny. I heard you say you haven't played golf or gone fly fishing since. No, not since he died.

I tried a little bit. That's sweet. You know, and it was just not the same. I mean, when you've played Pebble Beach with Jack Lemmon, it's just kind of downhill from there. Charlie, you said on the DVD that you saw the fortune cookie as a kid and then you were in the car with your dad and trying to make the connection. Yeah.

I said, Dad, the guy in the movie looks just like you. Yeah. I've always been a little slow. Now, you dad, Walter, went to acting school with Tony Curtis and Sidney Poitier. And there's a great story. I don't know if you want to tell it or I will either. Tony went away to Hollywood,wood became a major uh movie star and then he came back and he was riding in new york with his in the back of a stretch limo and he saw your father and beat up

clothes charlie's laughing gilbert i think he knows the story Okay, tell us. I like the way you tell it. Please. Yeah, his father, Walter Matthaus, walking in beat-up clothes, worn-out shoes. He can't find work anywhere. And Tony Curtis goes by in the limo, rolls down the window and yells, Hey, Walter, I fucked Yvonne DiColo. Charlie, how many times have you ever been forced to listen to that story? Never told any better than that.

If you go on YouTube, you can see Tony telling that story on Letterman. Really? I think he told it on Bob Costas' talk show. It's a classic. Charlie, how do you keep those earplugs in your ear so well? These earbud things are, Jesus God, they're annoying. Yours are just sitting there perfectly. I have very big ears.

Oh, yeah. Chris, do tell the story of the fortune cookie when your dad went to visit Walter in the hospital. Because it's kind of fun. I'm trying to remember what it is. He gives him the bag and he says, there's a guy I need you to go meet outside the studio gate. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, Walter did have a deep love of the ponies and playing the ponies.

And at one point he'd had the heart attack on, on, I think it was, what was it on Charlie? It was the first one, right? Fortune cookie. Fortune cookie.

Yeah. And so my father goes to see him and see how he's doing. And Walter looks at him and says, Jack, I want you to do me a favor. I want you to see this bag here. I want you to do me a favor. I want you to see this bag here? I want you to take this. There's going to be a guy standing out front of 20th Century Fox tomorrow afternoon at 1 o'clock.

I want you to give him the bag for me, okay? My father, anything, anything he would do. So he shows up at 1 o'clock, and sure enough, there's this guy with the, you know, the pushed over nose and the cauliflower ears. And he snatches the bag and rips it open, thumbs through a stack of a hundred dollar bills, then looks at my father and says, Oh, you's Jack Lemon, aren't you? You're my very favorite actor. How's about an autograph? And then my, my father says to himself jesus christ here i am standing here in front of 20th century fox and producers are driving by saying why is jack lemon giving walter math as bookie an autograph these are hard stories to remember i haven't done this show in about a year and a half.

What's the Marty Baum story, Charlie, where your dad walked into the office? Oh, that's a true story. Marty Baum was his agent in the early 50s. And he said, I need $50,000, Marty. And Marty said, well, yeah, we'll get that for you. Don't worry about it. He says, no, I need it today. He says, go look out the window. And there were those two guys that Chris was talking about with the cauliflower ears on the corner.

He says, if I don't get the 50 000 today they're gonna kill me so he and they ended up uh booking into a show called tallahassee 7000 it was uh not it was not a appointment television and uh everybody was wondering, you know, why did they get this Tony Award winning actor? Why is he in Tallahassee 7,000? And that's why. That's great.

That's 50,000 bucks. That's great. I hadn't heard that story. It's a great story. We will return to Gilbert Gottfried's amazing colossal Podcast after this. Hear that, Quarter Pounder fans? That silence is two friends enjoying the new creamy parmesan and bacon Quarter Pounder

at McDonald's. Because adding crispy bacon and creamy parmesan sauce to our 100% Canadian beef makes it impossible to have a conversation. Parmesan sauce to our 100% Canadian beef makes it impossible to have a conversation. Try the new creamy parmesan and bacon quarter pounder today and discover how words are so unnecessary. For a limited time only at participating McDonald's restaurants in Canada. What did your grandfather? Oh, my grandfather.

My grandfather was a baker. Yeah. Oh, my grandfather. My grandfather was a baker. He was the guy who kind of not patented or invented, but basically businessized the donut machine. The little, you know, the machines you'd see in the coffee shop windows where they would plop donuts, you know. Yes. Yeah. And he thought, it was during the Second World War, he thought it would be a lovely idea to bring those machines over to Europe to, you know, to give to the boys, to keep the boys' morale up. And so because of my grandfather and my father's father,

Europeans got donuts. Oh, my God. There you go donuts oh my god there you go papa jack now there you go and jack jack uh asked uh his father uh what he he told his father he was going into show business and i heard a story about this that no you, you tell it. Did you tell it? Oh, I don't remember. There's like a dozen of them. Yeah. Jack Lemmon's father said to him, well, will this make you happy? And he said, yes.

And he said, then go ahead and do it. Oh, yeah. That's a lovely story. Yes. He gave him his blessings. He wanted very much for my father to follow in his footsteps. And the line he gave him was, go do it, but just remember, I'll always find magic. That's sweet. Wow. I find it fascinating that both of your dads based movie characters on their mothers. If I have this right, now Daphne in Some Like It Hot was based on your grandmother.

And Charlie, do I have this right, that was your grandmother Rose? Yes. The inspiration for Willie in The Sunshine Boys? There's definitely a lot of Rose in Willie in the Sunshine Boys? There's definitely a lot of frozen Willie in the Sunshine Boys. That was such a brilliant performance. That is your favorite of his performances? Charlie? Yeah, it's mine. Absolutely.

Yeah. Why? Because it's just so damn funny. It's the funniest performance I've ever seen. Enter! Give him a little bit, Gilbert. Give him a little of your Willie Clark. It wasn't the Marasco Theater. It was the Velasco.

And it was in Yeah, Yeah, My Baby. Al Luge was a great actor. As an actor, you couldn't touch him. As a human being, you wouldn't want to. Tickle is not funny. I was fascinating to find out that he found the Sunshine Boys depressing when he first read it.

He didn't want to do it. This is what I saw in this wonderful documentary that I was telling you about, the Walter Matthau Diamond and the Rough documentary, where he said that, but then Neil Simon told him that he had Jack Benny. Well, no, he saw it on stage. He thought it was depressing.

Yeah, thought it was depressing. But then Neil Simon told him that he had Jack Benny, and he sent him the script, and my father was reading the lines out loud, and I was a little kid, and I was laughing hysterically. I just thought it was so funny so that that made him think well maybe i could do something with him you've seen that footage right there's no audio but you could you you should look at it too chris it's fascinating to see the makeup tests oh yeah with with with uh with jack and walter yeah and on the dvd there's also phil

silvers is auditioning really for the sunshine boys i i assume because it was what gilbert red skelton and jack benny originally jack benny had one teamed up was it or jack albertson maybe jack albertson did it on stage yeah yeah but they i i think it was red skelton and jack benny and red skelton thought the material this is what we learned that red skelton thought the material was too blue. But if you look at the DVD special, the extras, there's an audition, a screen test for Phil Silvers. Really? Red Skelton thought the Sunshine Boys was too blue? That's the story we heard.

Well, you know, that's very similar to what happened to Pop and Waltz for, which one was it, for Grumpy over me and Andy Garcia on the first green of Hillcrest because he was pissed off that the starter let us go as a twosome in front of his foursome. And so he almost ran us down. Yeah. Anyway, I digress. They put Burt Lancaster in. But yeah, they were supposed to do it. And they went to Don Rye, who directed it, and said, yeah, we want this. He says, no, the only way things are going to work

is Walter and Jack. And they said, no, no, no, we know better, blah, blah, blah. So they held out and held out. And finally they go, okay, we'll do Walter and Jack. And both of them turned it down. Unbelievable. No, it's true. And so now the studio is going, what the hell is going on?

You told us we had Walter and Jack. And it went back and forth for a couple of months. And in the meantime, Watcher Madingi has his office right next to my father's office. It was right next to him, not Burt Lancaster. Oh, forget it. Kirk Douglas. Yeah, Kirk Douglas, who's an angel. Anyway, so finally, they keep bumping the price up, bumping the price up, bumping the price up.

And they finally find out that both my father and Walter were going to do it, really wanted to do it. They just wanted to get the price up. So they turned the table on the studio, which I think is a lovely story. They wound up putting Kirk Douglas, Gilbert, and Burt Lancaster, old – remember that? Where they were old gangsters, yeah. Tough guys, tough guys. Yeah, with Eli Wallach.

Yeah, with Eli Wallach. But these casting decisions are crazy because, Charlie, they wanted – for the odd couple, they wanted Sinatra. Paramount was going to go with Sinatra and Jackie Gleason until your dad went to Howard Koch? Went to Howard Koch and he said, do you want to be responsible for ruining the odd couple? That's great. Cooler heads prevailed. But it's also kind of sweet because when they made the fortune cookie,

obviously Jack had the Oscar for Mr. Roberts. He'd been in The Apartment, which was Best Picture. He was a star. Your dad, Charlie, wasn't quite a movie star yet. He'd had the Tony, but he was a celebrated stage actor. He'd played villains. He'd played heavies. He'd been in a lot of mainstream movies. But it's the sweet thing that Walter says to Jack, I've got the showier part here. Yeah, well, he said, why are you doing this picture? I've got

a better part. And you're a much bigger star. And Jack said jack said well don't you think it's about time i find that so sweet great story i love that story it's so sweet yeah and of course and of course walter wins the oscar well not only that in the middle of the movie walter had a heart attack and they shut down the movie for three months and they wanted to replace him but Jack wouldn't let them replace him so uh they they held out until uh Jack wouldn't come back until Walter came back and at the time you know the doctor at Cedars-Levitt at that time a hospital was saying um if he survives he can never never work again. But Jack wouldn't hear of it, and he wouldn't take another actor. And Walter came back three months later and finished

the movie and ended up getting the Oscar for it. That's such a good story. What a story. The bulky coat, because he had lost weight. Right, yeah, there's a scene in the movie where he walks in the door, and then when he walks out of the door, he's 30 pounds lighter. That is a wonderful screen creation, that character. And you can't imagine anybody else playing Hinkle, Jack's character, but you really can't imagine anybody else playing this shyster lawyer. He really owns that part

he does indeed and did you get to know George Burns when they were working together I did I did I was very very blessed and he was uh just you know what you would uh I don't know if you knew him you might you might know but he was just what you would, I don't know if you knew him. You might have. No. But he was just what you would hope he would be. Your dad is clearly fond of him because, again, if you see these interviews that you can find on YouTube, they're doing press for the Sunshine Boys. It may be that same host, Chris, Michael Atkinson, the British host. And you can really see the love between these two guys.

Yeah. Yeah, they did. And, as a matter of fact, it was going to be with Jack Benny, and then Jack passed away. And so George replaced him. But, Chris, you got to know Burns a little bit too because Dad would take you to Hillcrest. He would walk through the room with a cigar bigger than his head and go to every single person.

He made sure that everybody he said hello to, he was a mensch. That's one of my favorite parts of your book is where you're talking about being at Hillcrest and these great classic old comics holding court like Danny Thomas and Miltie and what George Burns would time everybody? Yeah, well, that was on the night that Pop and I performed for his 95th birthday. But he was the king after Danny, not Danny, whom I think Jackie, Jack, help me out here. We just said it. I'm getting older, as you can tell. So these things, you know, it's not easy. In the book, you're talking about Danny Thomas was there.

Yeah, the round table. It was the Marx Brothers. And there were whole generations of people who, of these great, you know, huge, the comedians that came out of basically vaudeville. And, you know, and they tell stories. And that night they were all sitting back in the president's room and Pop and I walked in and Burns looks up and goes,

oh, look, a couple of lemons. And, you know, it was amazing. It was And, you know, it's it was amazing. It was truly amazing. It was a gift. These these parts of Charlie's in my life. And and it was because of our fathers. And I was told, Frank, tell me if I'm wrong, that this interview is actually going to air on Father's Day. Close to it. As close as close as close to it on Father's Day. Close to it. Or thereabouts. As close to it as we can get. Which is very appropriate. The only thing I could think that would be more appropriate

if there was such a thing as Brother's Day, because I really do think these guys had one of the most wonderful, hilarious, just incredible relationship. Out of the blue, who knew? They meet each other, I don't know. And then Walter gets sick on the film and popped to the story that Charlie just told. And they just stayed together.

They hung through thick and thin. And I've got oodles of pictures of the two of them, you know, just hanging out and playing with the grandchildren and stuff like that. It's a lovely story. So dad was an only child, Chris, and safe to say that Walter was the older brother that he didn't have. Yes, absolutely. And that's how he looked at him. Yes. Was that the dynamic, Charlie, that you sensed?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Walter did have a brother, Henry, but there was absolutely no question that Jack was every bit as much as his brother. Every bit as much as brother. He was very sweet to Gina after we were married. Her parents, Pat and Dan, they would come out to Los Angeles occasionally to visit. And, you know, and Pop and Walter and both their wives, Carol and Felicia, were very, very sweet to them. And it was so lovely to see, you know. As a matter of fact, I remember one story I'll tell really.

We were all at Mateo's. Remember Mateo's? Sure. Wonderful place in Westwood with the greatest steak on the face of the earth. And we were sitting at one of those half round tables. I think you might have been there charlie um and uh you know my my father all of a sudden he was like on the inside and my father all of a sudden disappears and and pat gina's mom feels something on her legs so she she lifts up the tablecloth

and looks underneath and it's my father and she says says, Jack, what are you doing? And he said, oh, I got to hit the head. I didn't want to disturb anybody. So he crawled out under the table, went to the head, and then crawled back in. That's great. Yeah. The only one who noticed was Pat. Watching The Odd Couple, and two, I thought this was interesting, Charlie, that Dad said that it was the perfect character for him.

He thought it was the perfect marriage of actor and role, Oscar Madison. Yeah, he did. He did, even though he did try and talk Neil out of it and said it was too easy and he wanted to play Felix. I think later on he referred to it as the plutonium that he needed to get where he wanted to be. Tell us about Edward Demetric, too, because you were in film school. The famous Edward Demetric, director of Murder, My Sweet and many, many other classic films. And your dad had worked with him. Yeah, well, I was at USC and Eddie was our instructor. And he just was, you know, just so much fun to listen to.

A brilliant man, a very kind man. you know, just so much fun to listen to. A brilliant man, a very kind man. And he would tell us all these stories about Robert Mitchum and Marlon Brando. He directed the Kane Mutiny. I mean, great, great body of work. It's amazing. And so after the last class,

I went up to him and I said, do you have any stories about my dad? And he said, yeah, he said at the wrap party of Mirage, I just, you know, whenever your dad would act in scenes with Gregory Peck, I couldn't take your eyes off I couldn't take my eyes off your dad. He just stole every scene and I went up to him and I said, Walter, you're going to be the,

one day you're going to be the greatest character actor in the business. And he thought my dad would be pleased by that. And instead, my dad looked at him and said, fuck you, Eddie. I'm going to be a leading man. Eddie was right. Well, no, my dad was right. Five years later, he was a leading man, even though he didn't look like leading men were supposed to look at that time.

They were supposed to look like Gregory Peck or Robert Taylor or Rock Hudson. Yeah, I mean, he's credited in some ways with paving the way for actors who weren't conventionally handsome to come later, like the Pacinos and the Dustin Hoffmans, who could be considered as leading men because Walter Matthau was a leading man. Yeah, he kind of paved the way for the anti-hero, although he felt that he never wasn't, he didn't play an anti-hero, that he was popular in part because he just played the ordinary guy next door. Right. And before we jump off the odd couple, Gilbert. Yeah. How about a little bit of Oscar Madison for these boys?

For six months, I lived alone in this apartment. I was despondent, depressed, and alone. And then you move in, my dearest and closest friend. And after three months of close personal contact, I'm about to have a nervous breakdown. Do me a favor, Felix. Move into the kitchen. You can have your pots, your pans, your ladles. Your meat thermometers.

What do you guys think? Now it's garbage. Yeah. Go ahead, Gil. Oh, God. Oh, your father, Chris, said that he thought movies years ago were more fun. Doing movies was more fun. i couldn't agree more um you know listen i i adore movies uh now it's it's you know what it is but back then there was a whole kind of i don't know maybe it was because it then it was samuel goldwyn and it turned into Coca-Cola or Pepsi-Cola or whatever.

That the business somewhere in the 80s just kind of got business-ified. And there was something just left. The whole kind of joie de vivre that everybody, you know, I mean, these were guys who were going to like Formosa Cafe for lunch and having three martinis and, you know, and fried shrimp in a frap and then going back to work, you know, and hitting the boards and stuff. And I think that it really created such flamboyant and three-dimensional characters. And now it just sort of seems like, oh, kind of flat. It just seems sort of two-dimensional.

And business, it just seems like business. Do you feel that way, Charlie? You've made films. You've raised money for films. Do you feel you would have enjoyed yourself more in the old days under the studio system? Oh, well, there's no question. I mean, you know, I became a filmmaker, you know, I mean, I kind of missed the studio system, but I came of age in the 70s. And, you know, most of the movies that I just loved as a kid and made me want to become a filmmaker wouldn't get made today.

You know, I mean, good point. Think about all those movies in the 70s, loved as a kid and made me want to become a filmmaker wouldn't get made today you know i mean good point think about all those movies in the 70s one over the cuckoo's nest or nashville or um sure even even the godfather would have problems getting made today i mean you know there's just uh i mean i could i could i could give you 50 or 100 70s movies that were amazing that would never get made today including some of your dad's films including uh yeah probably most of them yeah yeah yeah i gotta ask you guys that's a couple of questions i'll come back to uh we'll come back to more of gilbert's fun impressions we will return to gilbert godfrey's amazing colossal podcast but first a word from our sponsor this is from our pal josh mills our mutual friend josh yeah son of edie adams who was very close to your dad yep jack uh chris and Ernie Kovacs. Josh Mills, he wants to ask Chris about Venice, Italy, 1984 at the Gritty Palace.

And who was staying at the hotel that Christmas? Oh, does that mean anything to you? Chris Watkins was staying in Christopher Walken. Yeah. Pop and I, I don't know how we ended. I was actually working over there. And then, you know, he came over and we just ended up at... We were there for the tribute to Ingrid Bergman at the Venice Film Festival. See, he's young.

He can remember these things. I have that glorious excuse of, you know, I don't know, what? Excuse me? Hello, operator operator we've got a bad connection um uh but yeah i love that i didn't i don't remember you being there charlie you were what would you well you know i'm very shy no you are not but i uh yeah i was there you know i think maybe it was just that that I was so stoned all the time.

It's just gone. I see. Into like this cloud, you know. I remember Chris Watkins hitting me up for some pot. And, you know, I said, I smoked it. It's gone. It's all gone. It's just, oh, you know, Chris Walken.

I don't do Chris Walken very well. But yeah, he was always coming around the corner. Josh says, as part of that question, ask Charlie what French ladybug means to him. French ladybug. Wow. God josh know that uh that was a that was a mind reading trick that was taught to my father and i by milton burrell where uh wow you know it's a card it's a card reading trick and that's it you you were there i can't give away i can't give away the secret to the oh that's right you can't. Milton will be rolling around in his grave. Charlie, you were there.

We were together when we were very young, and Miltie and what was his wife's name? Ruth. Ruth. Miltie and Ruth would come in, and they didn't, their own party in their house. Everybody else is in the other room partying away, and they would come in and do tricks for us for like an hour.

They would do these and they were incredible card tricks and, and press the digitation. Try saying that three times. No, go ahead. What? Both my earplugs have fallen out now. I can't hear a fucking.

Okay. I was just going to say hi to Joshosh he's uh one of the great guys one of the great guys of the world and he is a wonderful guy we had him on the podcast because it was ernie kovacs uh hundredth year oh yeah and it is now it is now the uh what is the word the centenary of walter mathau a hundred years uh that's right october 20th it'll be 100 years. 100 years. I'm coming up on that. My father was a very big fan of Chris Watkins.

He sat next to him on an airplane one time, and Chris told me that he stared at him and he said, you're the guy that plays all of those Meshugganahs, aren't you? It must be very normal in real life to play all those mashuganups.

Gilbert, do Chris Walkins. I can't do him. Do you do a Chris Walkins impression, Charles? I wish I did, no, but he was one of my father's favorite actors and obviously one of mine, too. Yeah, he's a very talented actor.

Gellar, are you going to let them talk about Milton Berle and not ask either one of them the question? Okay, did either one of you see Milton Berle's dick? No, but that's a biggie in more than one way. No, but that's a biggie in more than one way. No, there's the famous story that it was him against Forrest Tucker, who was a rival country club. He was from Lakeside, and Miltie was from Hillcrest, and they literally had a whole big thing where they set up the unveiling.

And I'm very happy to say that Miltie beat him by a head. Charlie, we'll assume that wasn't part of Miltie's magic trick. Uncle Miltie. What a guy. I think we, Gilbert, you met Miltie. Yeah. So, okay, so we all got to meet Milton Berle. That's one thing we all have in common.

Yeah. Yeah. Tell us about, as children, Charlie, you were in Charlie Varick. I was, yes. Yeah, yeah. And Chris, you were as a kid on the set of The Great Race. So I want to hear a memory from each one of you. By the way, I love that movie to death.

Go ahead, Charlie. Well, Charlie Baric, there's a scene where I play the kid that sees the getaway car and sees the license plate. And I go up to the sheriff and tell him. And then I notice that there's blood on the sheriff's forehead and I asked him if he's going to die. And so we're about to shoot the scene and the director, who is my favorite and I think the most talented of all of the directors that my father worked with, he was the greatest filmmaker, Don Siegel. Oh, we're fans. Yeah.

He said, oh, I just got a phone call. I'm going to have to take this call. Walter, why don't you direct this scene? So I start to do this scene with a wonderful actor, Bill Shallard. And I'm doing way too much and just, you know, creating my own brand of ham. And my father's yelling and screaming at me, no, no, no, no, goddammit, Charlie, no!

No! And finally, after about the eighth take, I looked at him and I said, when is the real director coming back? Oh, that's lovely. That's lovely. Oh, it's great. And Chris, another movie of the many movies, the great movies your father did, but one that was How to Murder Your Wife.

Love it. Yeah. The gloppityop of the machine yes yes and had a had a great musical score by the same man who did the odd couple uh neil hefty oh yeah yeah oh i didn't didn't know that. You got that funny story in the book, Chris, about about how to murder your wife with with with Verna Lisa's husband. Oh, Christ. Now, what was the setup for that? Oh, I remember this story. That her husband, her husband from Italy was visiting the set. It's it's it's you know, it's one of those things that kind of flows out of the narrative of the story in the book. Well, Jack was injured. He was injured doing a stunt.

That's it. You're dead. And it was when they were running around the roof. Yeah. And it was crazy. In the opening. And, you know, Pop doesn't exactly not go for it is the best way to say it. I mean, he's, you know, this man is pretty much bundled up

dynamite. And so he just goes flying off the roof to certain, falling to certain death. And there's a pipe and he puts his arm around it and literally stops himself from falling to the ground, literally stops himself from falling to the ground uh ripping all the muscles and it was lovely uh so everybody says go to and he is uh now in the meantime vernalisi starring in the film too and she has a really jealous italian husband um who does he's big he's very large and he doesn't speak any english and he's convinced that she's having you know a little flirtatious thing with my father and so my father after this instead of going into well the all the dressing rooms look the same they had the little cottage dressing rooms on the set and my father bursts into what he thought was his dressing room, but of course it was Verna Lisi's. And

at that time, the jealous Italian giant is sitting there watching Verna Lisi model something with no clothes on. She was completely naked and doing a turn, and he looks at her, looks at my father, looking at her, then looks at my father, and, you know, the Keystone Cops breaks out. It was literally, yeah, no, it was literally running around all over the place with the chasing and, you know, it was like even if you saw a slow motion of it, you'd see, you know, Verna flying past with, you know, in her birthday suit. And then, you know, five or six costume people after her. And then, you know, then her husband's after her. And then my father is, you know, hiding over in a corner. And, yeah, I think I've gone on enough about this, haven't I? It's, you know, that's, yeah.

Watching. It was the old days. Back to that other question that Charlie and I were talking about. Old Hollywood. It was the old days. I mean, just this crazy stuff would happen. It was just so much fun. And I think that really came across in the films as well, you know, with these marvelous characters.

That's a fun one. That's a fun one. It's a wonderful picture. Richard Quine, I think, as memory serves. Dick Quine directed that one. Terry Thomas, a lot of fun in that one. And as Gil says, a great score. Terrific.

Yeah, it was a really, really fun movie. And Gilbert, you're very moved by Jack's performance in Save the Tiger, too. I know that's a movie you've talked about on this show. Terrific performance. Yeah, it was. And it was a real, you know, Pop had a few breakthroughs where it's just all of a sudden he just took people and whacked them across the face. And I'll say this as quickly as I can. Basically, his whole desire, based on his great hero, Jean-Louis Barreau, was literally to make you laugh and make you cry at the same time. He felt that's

the interweaving of comedy and drama was the ultimate of the art. And of course, that didn't go over back in the days of, you know, those days with the branding and all that stuff. You know, they want, you know, Jack Lemmon, you know, hitting his face into another window and falling over and stuff. And the first film where he was able to do that was his second film with Billy Wilder, which was The Apartment. And that was... My favorite. Yeah, that was that was a very important film, not just for for its social commentary, but for my father as an actor, because that's where he did it need flawlessly. Right. And then Days of Wine and Roses came right

after that. That's exactly right. He was obviously he had crossed over. He was obviously now being taken seriously as a dramatic actor. But the ultimate of all of them was Save the Tiger. Wonderful. That schmuck, that son of a bitch who wanted to burn down his clothing factory, you know, for the insurance money because he was going under, you know, what a story. That's a, that's a Save the Tiger's a perfect example of a film that wouldn't have been made today. Yes, you're right, Charlie.

Yeah. And let's talk about your career transformation of sorts, too, for your dad, Charlie, because he started appearing in action films, in films like The Laughing Policeman and films like Taking of Pelham 123, Charlie Varick, showing his range. Right. Well, you know, going back to it, I guess, he started out playing heavies and dramatic roles, and then some genius figured out that he could be funny. So then he was doing that. And then when he was able to kind of pick and choose his part, he did go back and do some dramatic roles. I know he turned down Dirty Harry because he thought it was too violent.

But then a couple of years later, he made Charlie Berrick with the great John Siegel. And Chris, your dad turned down Cool Hand Luke? Oh, yeah. It's a hell of a story. But he was so impressed with the script, and he knew who should play the lead instead of him. So he ended up producing it. It was a J-Lim production.

Why did he turn the role down? He felt that there was another actor who could do it better and who was more right for the part and of course that actor was nominated for an academy award from your dad was generous that way he would he would uh yes he would recommend another actor for a part great instincts that was one thing i gotta say about pop man um i just think that he was so delicious as a human being that he had incredible luck um and he was so talented you know luck doesn't happen luck is made uh uh by hard work and uh

and and good instincts and also walking into the right room at the right time and pop had had had that uh and he made some really amazing decisions during his time. And that was one of them. And both Lemon and Matt, though, both were able to do both comedy and drama equally well. Mm hmm. Equally well. Yeah. You go, Charlie. You talk about that. Well, Charlie and I were talking about about C cactus flower and a new leaf on the phone yesterday. I believe they wanted Cary Grant for cactus flower. Yeah, that's right. And then Cary had had retired already and didn't want to come back. Right. Yeah. I mean, and I'm watching that and I'm thinking and to go go from carrie grant to walter mathau but you don't miss

a beat because he because he my father used to insist that he was the ukrainian carrie grant here's here's an oddball uh walter mathau uh role the drunk at the bar in earthquake yes and he he did not take the credit, the screen credit, Walter Matthau. Well, he kind of got tricked by the producer of that, who was his buddy. And he was, he said, can you do a cameo, you know, just come down for a few hours and play a drunk at the bar and, you know, we'll give some money to charity and uh he did that but then uh i guess unbeknownst to him they did a lot more filming with his double and so and then they cut it in all over the movie so you keep cutting back to the bar so it looks

like it's a real part and And my dad was very pissed off. And he said, well, you can't use my name. I'm going to give you a name that you can use. So he made something up where it had as many syllables as possible. That's a great story. You know what? The other story I love about was, Chris, your dad's in a movie called Alex and the Gypsy. Yeah.

Which he wasn't terribly fond of. No, that's he. And so he took to the screening. He took his best friend, Walter, and, you know, pretty much held his hand through the whole thing. And sure enough, it was, you know, it was a pull. Pull. And so finally he turns to Waltz and says, So what do you think?

Waltz thinks about it a second, turns to him and says, Get out of it. Now, I remember, I didn't meet either one of your fathers, but I remember being like just a few feet from them at this Big Brother event that used to be Insane All-Star. And I don't know if you'd remember any of this, but I just overheard your father, Walter, saying that there was some kind of chocolate that he liked. I think it was made in Europe, and he would, like, allow himself like one a year.

Because, you know, he had a heart condition. Does that mean anything, Charlie? Yeah. Well, you know, we had an ongoing dialogue about his diet. I can tell you that if he said he only had one a year, I think that might have been a little fib. Gilbert, was it killing you to not go over and introduce yourself? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, the two of them i thought uh they're not real you know it's that they're two big stars they can't exist in real life what was steve martin's a great line at the afi tribute um where he's he's sitting in the commissary at the at the paramount and looks up and sees my father, Walter, and Billy Wilder walking towards him. And I said to myself, oh, God, not these guys again. Is that the tribute that ended with the punchline, Jack Lemmon's got a great ass?

Do you know what I'm referring to? Oh, yeah. That was Walter's speech. Was that Walter's speech was that walter's speech yes it's just and he turns and walks away from me and i remember thinking to myself jack lemon's got a great ass that's the one chris how touched was he and you can see it on youtube too we'll tell our listeners when Ving Rhames did that lovely thing at the Golden Globes. Well, I think he was stupefied. And surprised everybody. Yeah, he was more stupefied than anything.

And he adored Ving and really did think, as we all did, that he deserved that award. But I just think it's great that he walked up to him, took it, and said, and I'm going to keep it, too. He seemed so flabbergasted. Yeah, he really was. And I don't know if he ever gave it. It was a lovely moment. And it was the right thing to do if you're a young actor and you're up against Jack Lemmon, for Christ's sake. Give him the award.

That's what he was. I think both of them, both Pop and Walter. lemon for christ's sake you know give him the award it was that's that's what he was i think i think both of them uh both pop and walter were they um you know they they played all these marvelous characters and quirky and this and that and touching and heart-rending uh both of them and uh and but underneath they were very very generous uh men uh i i really do believe you said two out of two and a billion charlie that, Charlie. That's the kind of guys they were. That's about right, yeah. I like that line.

Another quick question from a listener. Simon Thaler would like to know if Charlie has any stories from his appearance as a killer bee on Saturday Night Live when his dad hosted. And it's a great episode, by the way. When his dad hosted, and it's a great episode, by the way. You know, I wish I did. I don't have any great stories from that other than it was an amazing time. And he would also like to ask Chris what it was like to portray the younger version of his dad in Gary David Goldberg's film, Dad. dad in Gary David Goldberg's film. Oh, yeah. Dad. Well, you know, Gary was was producing the show that I was in for Fox at the time, which was pretty popular, called Duet. Duet. Sure. I used to watch Duet. Yeah. And and and he said, would you come and do this? And I said, sure. And he said, will you ask your wife if she could play Olympia Dukakis? And sure enough, Gina said yes. And and we we showed up in Duxbury

Massachusetts and it was a magical two days just joyous so much fun and and really kind of very touching you know to be able to you know to play him but then my father found out about it and there was hell to pay. He said, what, what, what, what the fuck are you doing out there? Jesus Christ. Who let this little bastard do that shit? Chris, your one man show, which I will recommend to our listeners and they can, they can find it on YouTube is just, and the book. Well, that's not a fully produced rendition of the show. That was just, you know, something we threw together.

But it's but it's it's it's great. It's there's there's so many wonderful moments in it. There's that. Charlie saw it. Charlie came to see my show. Amazing. It was in its infancy. It's got music. It's got stories. It's good. There's that great Marilyn Monroe story with the helicopter. Oh, yeah. Yeah. True story. Yeah. It's it's it's full of great stories. And the book is very, very touching. I'm curious, too. He directed Walter. The one time he got in the director's chair, of course, was Koch. And Charlie, what were you telling me that he he couldn't find he couldn't find a lead? He was having trouble getting the

movie off the ground. And your dad said, If you need somebody for the part, you know, I'd love to do it. And he hadn't thought of that. Of course, at the time, Walter was 30 years younger than the character. Very sweet portrayal. Yeah. And a nice little film. Chris, why did he not direct again after that it's you know i i think i think he did a good job um yeah yeah yeah it's a good film

another one of those 70s movies that would never be made of course uh again but it's that's you know i mean directing charlie's more more uh more uh able to to answer this question than me. Directing is tough, man. I mean, you're there from the inception. It's just ridiculous, you know, hard work for months and months and months and months. And I think, you know, Pop just went, Jesus Christ, I don't want to do this anymore. He does have a fun cameo as a sleeping man on a bus. Yeah.

Yeah, it was a nice film. And I think it was very poignant as well. Sweet film. I recommend it. Charlie, how the hell did your mom become the inspiration for Holly Go Lightly and Breakfast at Tiffany's? Well, it was her personality, not her occupation. Right! She was best friends with Truman Capote,

and they used to go out at night, and in the morning they'd walk by Tiffany's, and he liked her very flighty personality. And then you got to, years later, adapt a Truman Capote story, and you got to direct your dad and Chris's dad, The Grass Harp, which we also recommend to our listeners, which is very, first of all, a dream cast

and very well made. Thank you. Yeah, no, I was incredibly lucky to work with such great material and with the best actors. Even Piper Laurie was amazing in that. She said that was her favorite role. Wonderful, wonderful cast. She's one of my favorite actresses. And she was, of course, also nominated in Cool Hand Luke, right? Which I didn't realize until this program

that Chris's father produced. Yeah. There you go. We're nothing if not educational. What is it called? Tourist Geography. That's the wonderful thing about, you know, we tried to answer your question

about the, you know, what's the difference? And there certainly is. But it just seemed like it was more kind of a band of troubadours back then, you know, the show must go on. And there was this whole spirit that kind of, and I kind of miss that, especially in this time where nobody's even going to the movies anymore. You watch it on your TV. Not now. What was Blake Edwards like, Chris? And then we're going to the movies anymore. You watch it on your TV. Not now. What was Blake Edwards like, Chris? And then we're going to ask Charlie to tell us something about Billy Wilder.

Well, he was one of the funniest guys you could ever hope to meet. He had all sorts of personal demons and all of his films reflect him going through one stage or another, especially That's Life, I think, is really true of that, that Pop plays him brilliantly.

Yeah, nice to see you in there, too. But he would tell stories in between takes that you just, you would cry with laughter. You couldn't stop laughing. You were worried for your health when Blake told a story because, you know, you couldn't stop laughing. You were worried for your health when Blake told a story because, you know, you couldn't get enough oxygen in. I remember him talking about one time when he wanted to commit suicide. And I think had he broken his foot, he had a big cast on his foot and he decided the way he was going to commit suicide uh was to to jump off

one of the mountains in pacific palisades and so he pumped himself up and pumped himself up and started running and stepped in a hole and broke his other foot so he literally was walking around with two casts on. That was hilarious. I love The Great Race. You know, we used to do little mini episodes of this show where Gilbert and I would just kick around. We'd just talk about movies we love. Gilbert did an episode about Save the Tiger. Remember, Gil?

Oh, yes. He did an episode about How to Murder Your Wife. We did an episode about The Great Race and one about Charlie Varick. One other thing we did on this show, like one of the great musical scores of all time was The Odd Couple. Everybody recognizes the theme music. And have either one of you heard the lyrics to The Odd Couple? Did you know there were lyrics?

I didn't know that. Didn't Marvin Hamlitz write that? No, it was Neil Hefty. Did he write the lyrics also? Whoever wrote the lyrics, I don't think would tell anyone. They weren't the worst lyrics. It was something like,

when people see us walk, they think we're an odd couple. That was something like when when people see us walk they think we're an odd couple well uh glad it wasn't anything too on the nose oh it was it was horrible yeah thank you charlie here's another one for you from a listener. Sean Patrick Little, I love Charlie's film Freaky Deaky. I must ask about the challenges of adapting someone like Elmore Leonard to the screen. Well, again, I was really blessed to work with great material. And I remember the premiere of Freaky Deaky at the Tribeca Film Festival. And afterwards, they did the questions and answers.

And I had no idea who was going to be there. But who was in the front row but Mr. Chris Lemon. Yeah, I kind of screwed up the whole surprise thing by sitting. It was a hell of a film, Charlie. I adored that film. It's a fun movie with another really great eclectic cast. If you're looking for a classic Elmore Leonard movie, it's not Freaky Dinky. But if you're just looking for a fun 90 minutes, I think it'll do.

It's fun with a kinky kind of cast. I mean, Crispin Glover and Andy Dick and Christian Slater. And everybody's having fun. Yeah, it was a good time. Clearly. I've got to ask you guys about this lovely thing that Larry Gelbart said at Walter's at your dad's memorial service he said the redwoods are falling and not soon to be replaced yeah yeah and and i think and gilbert and i you know we get not melancholy but we were you know this is a nostalgia show and we certainly you know it's it's we look back at things that that used to be and never will be again. I think it's safe to say these two guys are just irreplaceable.

Yes, they were. No question. Very, very tall Redwoods. Yeah, and they were your best friends too, both of you. Big time. Yeah, absolutely. Safe to say. You said something interesting on the Odd Couple the odd couple uh commentary charlie you

said there were there were three people on screen together there was math out there was lemon and then there was this magical entity that they created together did i say that that's isn't that profound that's pretty good charlie you know i just think it's wonderful, though, that they were able to end with just such a delightful film with grumpy old men and with Burgess and, you know, and all that that had such heart to it. But at the same time was a truly funny film. was a truly funny film. It spoke, in my opinion, about them as friends and people and did it in such a delightful way.

I know they went on to do some other stuff after that, but that one, I think, was really, in my opinion. And yeah, so cheers to them. To each of you, what lemon movie for you, Chris? If you're channel surfing, if you stumble across it, what can you not turn off? What is the one that you have to watch? It's the big one. I really, truly think Pops big film. And I talk about it in that way in the show. You know, I don't do the show as me. I do the show as him. Yes. And so he's reminiscing.

And yeah, that was the one. That was the one where he was able to achieve his highest goal. And was he proudest of that one? I know he was proud of Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, and Save the Tiger. Yeah, actually. Or at least Mitch says he said this.

I don't know. It's a little questionable, but no, he thought Tuesdays with Maury was one of his favorites. Oh, wow. He did good work in that. One of his favorites, yes. And it's a beautifully written piece, and Mitch is now really mad at me. I think The Apartment's my favorite movie. Charlie, same question.

You're sitting around, you're in a hotel room, you got the SpectraVision going, or you're knocking around on the channels. And what is the movie you cannot turn off? And also, part B of that question is, what performance do you think he was proudest of? I know he wasn't sentimental about his performances, and I know he wasn't a guy to look back. Well, he I guess you don't ask the barber if you need a haircut. Right. So he would say that his his favorite movie was The Grass Harp. But I'm sure that's because I directed it. My favorite performance of his was Sunshine Boys,

and a couple of favorites that he had that seemed to kind of maybe don't get the attention that they deserve are Lonely Are the Brave with Kirk Douglas, and that was also Kirk's favorite movie, and A New Leaf, which is now you can get on Blu-ray, which is not a lot of people have seen, but is really good. Love it.

Love that one. And what was he really proud of? He was proud of most of the movies that he made with Jack. He was proud of The Grass Heart because I directed it and I didn't screw it up too bad. And he loved Lonely are the Brave, Face in the Crowd. Yeah, Gilbert reminded me today he's in A Face in the Crowd. Yeah, Gilbert reminded me today he's in a face in the crowd. He's, I mean, he didn't, he, you know, was very modest.

And he didn't say how proud he was of this performance. You know, there's probably 10 or 20 of them that will never be forgotten. What does your mom say when he would tell your mom what a great actor he was? She said, yeah, so was Shirley Temple, and she was six years old. Oh, this is a treat. You guys want to talk, Charlie, tell us about your charity. Charlie, tell us about your charity. Oh, you know, I am for any charity that would get the government to spend more on cancer research and NIH funding. Because, you know, we spend, I think we spend something like $700 billion on defense every year. And as important as that is, we're probably going to have a much greater chance of getting cancer in our lifetime. Now it's one out of two. So, yeah, you know, I think we ought to spend more on that. I think we spend maybe 5%

on medical research and what we spend on defense. And I wish we could spend a little more on that. I think we spend maybe 5% on medical research and what we spend on defense. And I wish we could spend a little more on medical research. What is the organization that you work with? I work with several. One is the American Cancer Society Political Action Committee. American Cancer Society Political Action Committee. And I work with the Maria Gruber Foundation and other charities like that. But, you know, the federal government, we expect the federal government to do grand and wonderful things. And I think that that would be an area that we could get some more bipartisan support on and, you know, maybe solve the cancer problem in our lifetime. Good for you. Yeah, actually, who was who was that? Our doc friend,

Gina. It's over at Yale. Richard Edelson, who was the head of the Yale Cancer Department, I don't know what the hell it's called, said exactly what Charlie just said to him when we were having dinner, and that he feels within his lifetime that there will be a cure for cancer. Let's hope. Chris, tell us about your kids. They're actors. You know, Let's hope. Chris, tell us about your kids. They're actors. You know, it's amazing.

You know, you have a couple of kids, and then they turn out to be such a pain in the ass. The lemon lineage. Yes, they all want to be actors, which means I support all three of them. No, I'm kidding. My daughter, Sydney, is just finished starring in Marvel's new TV series. About that. It's coming out pretty soon on Hulu and this, that, and who the knows anymore? What the hell do you watch on? You know? And my youngest, John, is showing real promise as an actor.

He's just starting up. He's not quite as old as I could have had because I'm very old. But, you know, that joke isn't funny anymore, is it? But my middle son, thank God, is sensible. And he's got like a real job where. OK. Yeah. Where he now works from home and and makes lots of money. So they're all they're all rich as hell and I'm broke. So I can't afford I can't afford to give the charities.

I don't you know, I don't have it. I'm my own charity. I give to myself. Well, I am going to plug your book, which people can still get on Amazon, A Twist of Lemon, a tribute to my father, which is beautiful and funny and filled with great anecdotes. Charlie is threatening to write a book about his dad. Are you, Charlie? Next Father's Day, maybe it'll come out. 2021.

Good for you. I would love to see that. Please do. I'm writing one, too. Are you? Another one. Another memoir. I don't know if you're allowed to do that.

I don't know if you're allowed to write two memoirs. The first one was so good. They might think that I'm a little full of myself. So, yeah. The first one was great, and I can't wait to myself. So, uh, yeah, yeah. This one was great and I can't wait to read the second. Thank you, Charlie. It's a great read. You look good kid. I'm going to give you a call.

We haven't spoken in a long time. Yeah, I know. I know. I don't know if you look at your Facebook messages, but I was, I left, I left you a couple of them. I didn't want to bother you. Yeah. I haven't looked at that in like a year, but I'll go, I'll go back on there, but I yeah i'll call you i miss you and i love you have the same number same number why don't you give it give it to me again so i can make sure i've got it right well give it to him give it to him off mike we got we got to recommend this body of work before we get out of here. Gilbert and I have done 317 of these now, Gil.

Oh, Christ. I think this is 318. And believe it or not, we've got a nice audience on Sirius Radio, and we've got a nice podcast audience, and people listen to our film recommendations. So this body of work, Mr. Roberts and Failsafe and The Odd Couple and Pete and Tilly and Save the Tiger and A New Leaf and The Fortune Cookie and Cactus Flower and The Apartment and Some Like It Hot and The Taking of Pelham 123 and we could go on and on and on. You guys have to find these films and watch them because they're special and they probably would not get made under today's circumstances, which is tragic.

And we have to thank some people who helped make's circumstances, which is tragic. Yeah, good point. And we have to thank some people who helped make this possible, which is Josh Mills and Chuck, your manager, Chris. Chuck Binder, yes. Chuck Binder, we got to thank. And my friend Barry Greenberg, who put us in touch with Charlie and, as always, the indispensable John Murray. And Gilbert, do you have a little Walter left in you?

Have you used all your bullets? Gilbert, you do Oscar and I'll do Felix. Oh, oh my God. Finally removed that spaghetti from my polka tape. You see? You see? You see? That's exactly what it is.

It's not spaghetti. It's linguine. Now it's garbage. Charlie's in clover. Look at him. This was fun. Yeah, it was. Gilbert, anything else you want to ask these gentlemen?

Let's see. I mean, it's just not so much ask, but it's so funny to look. I mean, the way both of you look and the mannerisms and the voices, it really is like talking to to jack love and walter yep it's so funny to watch we almost did the odd couple charlie and i oh that would have been amazing yeah we we did um but they you know they didn't have any money well gilbert and jason alexander who we had on the podcast a couple of weeks ago, have threatened to go on tour in the Sunshine Boys. Oh, that would be lovely.

Guys, this was a wonderful Father's Day show, and we're thrilled to meet you both. Well, thank you, Frank. And Gilbert, a real honor to be on your show. I think it's terrific, and thanks for having me. Oh, thank you, Frank. And Gilbert, a real honor to be on your show. I think it's terrific. And thanks for having me. Oh, thank you. And me too. Thank you so much. It was a lot of fun. I will recommend one more thing to our listeners. On YouTube, they can find Chris, a lovely tribute that you and Shirley MacLaine did to your dad at the AFI. Yeah, that was the one when Steve Martin did his, you know.

Yes, which is so sweet, so beautiful to watch. The body of work that's out there is available to everybody, guys. So go find it. Go check it out. Thank you. And I'm Gilbert Gottfried, and this has been Gilbert Gottfried's Amazing Colossal Podcast with my co-host Frank Santopadre.

And we have been talking to Chris Lemon and Charlie Mathau. Muzica ¶¶ © transcript Emily Beynon